Review - Codex Eldar Craftworlds

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**Inkubas**

Thanks for the review. As a DA player I can't think of any effective counters for Eldar that won't require list tailoring. It seems that they took a good codex and make it even better. Still, I look forward to playing against my brother's wraith army. He's been using them with Dark Eldar for some disturbing combinations and now with S

weapons .... <shrug> Whatever. FOR THE LION!!!

**Wyldhunt**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Wise terrain placement/selection also helps to mitigate this defense.

If one of the things you are depending on is being able to put the terrain up yourself to prevent their advantages, there's something a bit wrong.

Really? My opponents and I generally just sort of place terrain before the game, make sure it looks good to the other player, then adjust as necessary. If your opponent is using lots of long-ranged bikes frequently, well, your opponent might be a dick. But it's still probably a good idea to make sure most of the terrain he can hide behind is closer to mid-field or off to the sides so that he can't just sit in his deployment zone. In the same way that people recommend you have more BLOS terrain when facing Tau or IG, either have more BLOS that you can hide behind yourself, or otherwise distribute BLOS terrain to make the game more fun.

Obviously you probably won't have as much control over your terrain at tournaments, but many tournaments seem to support a fairly limited amount of BLOS terrain. Which is good for non-eldar players because it means your opponent can't hide behind terrain as easily. Seriously, as long as the guardian bikers can't completely deny you the chance to attack them, they aren't that durable. They'll die to small arms fire and melee attacks as quickly as marines, but are worth twice the points when they go down. If you have a way to also deny them cover, they don't benefit from jink either.

Though again, it would probably be more reasonable for 1 in 3 bikes to have access to heavy weapons.

**TheNewBlood**

Here's my review of the codex, in abridged form:

Scatriders are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.
D weapons are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.
Wraithknights are ludicrously overpowered and undercosted.
Everything else is merely good. People will ignore this in favor of the above.

Take my advice, and don't play against anyone who uses and/or spams the above units.

**Brothererekose**

TheNewBlood wrote:
Here's my review of the codex, in abridged form:

Scatriders are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.

For the points of two marines, dying the same, T4, 3+ save, 1W. I disagree on over powered. I say balanced. Over **fast*, yes, they still are over-the-top on that.

2 SM : 4 shots, average STR
1 JB : 3 shots, better STR

2 SM: 2 Wounds
1 JB: 1 Wound

27 JB versus 28 SM points. It's their speed that remains 'broken'.

TheNewBlood wrote:
D weapons are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.

And the majority of those, 12" range. Meh. And WG are pricey. Again, D weps are a wee bit more powerful than the Distort weps previously, but those differences only matter to non-1W models and vehicles;

... and no one cares when ImpKnight crews cream their shorts ...

TheNewBlood wrote:
Wraithknights are ludicrously overpowered and undercosted.

I dunno, my WK seemed to survive less than half his games. Maybe with gargantuan rules ... eh. I would not say "ludicrously OP & OC." I'll try to remember to post here after my RTT with the new rules and post results.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Everything else is merely good. People will ignore this in favor of the above.

Every exarch got many toys taken away, so now they're okay sergeants.

I doubt your assertion. Given that I don't own enough models for the Wraith formation nor the JB formation, I would say that 'no' most folks won't WAAC guys will. But frankly, being a tourney regular, I don't see guys like this.

Again, I'll try to remember to post after the next RTT and relay how many WAAC douches showed up with 30 JBs. Or is it "Scatbikes"?

I will, seriously, so you guys get real feedback from actual events.

**gmaleron**

Is the Wraithknight undercosted? Most definitely. Is it OP? Not even close, despite getting a slight buff to its Wraithcannons it got over 55 points more expensive to become a Gargantuan Creature, which really is not all that bad. It still is very vulnerable to a lot of weapons out there, Grav Guns for Marines for example will still wreck it.

**Ferros**

^Yet comparing it to any other GC we see it IS clearly far too powerful for its points. Or, you know, OP.

You treat "GC" status, which you yourself say "not all that bad" (No more poison, independent targeting, etc.) and your only argument to justify that is that it can still be hurt by some things without an extrordinary and ridiculous struggle in the first place?

Goodness.

**Vaktathi**

gmaleron wrote:
Is the Wraithknight undercosted? Most definitely. Is it OP? Not even close, despite getting a slight buff to its Wraithcannons

Yet again, it's significanly more than a slight buff, going from S10 to D is gigantic.

it got over 55 points more expensive to become a Gargantuan Creature, which really is not all that bad. It still is very vulnerable to a lot of weapons out there, Grav Guns for Marines for example will still wreck it.

Which doesn't mean it can't still be OP, particularly as most armies don't have grav guns.

Gaining a gigantic boost to firepower, Stomp attacks, vastly increased resilience against mechanics like Force, Poison and Sniper, for a mere 55pts is astoundingly cheap, and is not only cheaper than any other GC, is downright better 1v1 than many (if not most) most as well.

**Poly Ranger**

Brothererekose wrote:
TheNewBlood wrote:
Here's my review of the codex, in abridged form:

Scatriders are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.
For the points of two marines, dying the same, T4, 3+ save, 1W. I disagree on over powered. I say balanced. Over **fast*, yes, they still are over-the-top on that.

2 SM : 4 shots, average STR
1 JB : 3 shots, better STR

2 SM: 2 Wounds
1 JB: 1 Wound

27 JB versus 28 SM points. It's their speed that remains 'broken'.

TheNewBlood wrote:
D weapons are ridiculously overpowered and undercosted.
And the majority of those, 12" range. Meh. And WG are pricey. Again, D weps are a wee bit more powerful than the Distort weps previously, but those differences only matter to non-1W models and vehicles;

... and no one cares when ImpKnight crews cream their shorts ...

TheNewBlood wrote:
Wraithknights are ludicrously overpowered and undercosted.
I dunno, my WK seemed to survive less than half his games. Maybe with gargantuan rules ... eh. I would not say "ludicrously OP & OC." I'll try to remember to post here after my RTT with the new rules and post results.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Everything else is merely good. People will ignore this in favor of the above.
Every exarch got many toys taken away, so now they're okay sergeants.

I doubt your assertion. Given that I don't own enough models for the Wraith formation nor the JB formation, I would say that 'no' most folks won't WAAC guys will. But frankly, being a tourney regular, I don't see guys like this.

Again, I'll try to remember to post after the next RTT and relay how many WAAC douches showed up with 30 JBs. Or is it "Scatbikes"?

I will, seriously, so you guys get real feedback from actual events.

2 SM at 12" have 4 st4 shots.

1 scatterbike at 36" has 4 st6 shots.

That is a massively higher level of shooting power!

2 marines have a 24" gun.

Jetbikes have a 36" gun, jsj and the option of jink.

That is a massively higher level of survivability!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
D weapons are far more powerful against vehicles mathmatically.

**Elmir**

I think it's safe to say that anybody who thinks the wraithknight is "just ok" and not OP at all for it's pointscost has a bit of a weird sense of balance.

Regardless, 80% of this codex is really good, packs one hell of a punch, etc. There's not a single unit in there (except for poor guardians perhaps) that you wouldn't want to field at all.

The sad part, like many already point out, is that massive mistakes in terms of balance were made by the game devs for a few units. They will overshadow everything (just like serpentspam in the last book).

**Poly Ranger**

gmaleron wrote:
Is the Wraithknight undercosted? Most definitely. Is it OP? Not even close, despite getting a slight buff to its Wraithcannons it got over 55 points more expensive to become a Gargantuan Creature, which really is not all that bad. It still is very vulnerable to a lot of weapons out there, Grav Guns for Marines for example will still wreck it.

You do realise the power of D weapons, the power of stomps and the power of being able to ignore many weapon types such as poison right? Because its 55pys included all of this.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Clearly Iybraesil is just trying out a new fashion. You can use the hawk colors like before and have those of us with an appreciation for those who excavate the crone worlds applaud you. ^_^

The new codex is not as terrifyingly OP as I feared it might be. As I don't personally use guardian bikers or wraith knights, I basically just got some nifty new aspect abilities to play with and a stronger incentive to use the exarchs I was already using anyway.

Jetbikes are probably the most terrifying thing in the book. My advice is to stick to the old 1 heavy per 3 bikes rule from before if you want to keep your friends. That said, It's actually more difficult to go out of your way to get the heavy weapons than to just use the same weapon loadouts you had access to before. In other words, don't be a dick, and they're fine. Obviously this is more problematic for tournament players, but I'm curious to see how the tournament meta adapts to them.

To play devil's advocate, however, I don't think the bikes are as untouchable as people seem to be pretending they are. I love hiding stuff behind BLOS terrain, but it's easier for your opponent to get a good angle on you than you might think. Wise terrain placement/selection also helps to mitigate this defense. Even if they jink, bikes don't exactly rival deathstar durability. They'll die to small arms fire or any gun that ignores cover (thunderfires, markerlights, etc.) just as easily as marines. Beasts move just as fast as them in the movement phase and have fleet to help close the gap. Jetbikes are still moving away faster than you're closing the gap, but they ought to be running out of space pretty quickly if they're moving away in a straight line. If they move off to the side, they're making it easier for you to catch up to them. Also, moving away from an assault unit while also keeping the right angle to utilize that BLOS terrain can be tricky. If there's a huge proliferation of BLOS terrain in your games, you ought to be able to use it to your advantage to hide from the bikes too. That's not to say they aren't a problem, but they aren't the untouchable gods of defense people seem to be implying they are either.

I'm not terribly familiar with gargantuan creatures, but the wraith knight *is* a bit silly. If it weren't for the FNP inherent in all GMCs, I'd be tempted to point out that the wraithknight will drop reasonably quickly to focused fire from krak missiles and lascannons, but that FNP makes it scary tough. The possible scattershield save adds to that, but to be fair, it does take away your best guns and leave your 'knight more or less stuck taking on a single unit a turn. I feel like we'll find a workable set of answers to the wraith knight soon enough, but he probably could have afforded to be either a lot more expensive or a little more fragile.

All in all, I'm looking forward to using this codex. It seems easy enough to avoid taking the really broken stuff in friendly games, and the new options on the aspects are just plain fun! Except maybe for the spider's reactive jump. That looks like a good way to annoy people... I'd be more worried about tournament games, but I'm not much of a tournament player myself.

Also, why do people keep saying the scatter laser is ap 4? Reports that they are AP 4 is imperial propaganda designed to increase resentment towards the eldar. ^_^

Line of sight blocking terrain is not what makes scatter bikes survivable. It is the 36" range with jsj that does that. Most small arms can't reach them before it is dead. Also any beasts apart from rp wraiths will be shredded by the scatterbikes in a turn, at most 2.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've not seen anybody say that scatter lasers are ap4.

**Brothererekose**

Poly Ranger wrote:
2 SM at 12" have 4 st4 shots.

1 scatterbike at 36" has 4 st6 shots.

That is a massively higher level of shooting power!

2 marines have a 24" gun.

Jetbikes have a 36" gun, jsj and the option of jink.

That is a massively higher level of survivability!

I did neglect the range in my analysis. The extra range wasn't considered, given how much Drop Pod spam I play in my meta.

Sorry.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
D weapons are far more powerful against vehicles mathmatically.

Yer absolutely right. D over Distort Weps are better, not 'ludicrously' so, though.
IMHO.

I exalted your post as you well put, without trolling, that I missed and messed up. Well, done.

**Poly Ranger**

No problem. It's the range combined with the maneuverability and hrof that is the issue. Otherwise the statline of a jetbike unit is fine.

Guide is still primaris as well I assume? I've not verified that with anyone yet.

**Talys**

Poly Ranger wrote:
No problem. It's the range combined with the maneuverability and hrof that is the issue. Otherwise the statline of a jetbike unit is fine.

Guide is still primaris as well I assume? I've not verified that with anyone yet.

yeah, Guide is still primaris

**Poly Ranger**

Cheers!

**chanceafs**

A new codex comes out with several really good things, and everyone cries that it is overpowered.. then more codexes come out and it becomes just another book amongst the crowd. This has all happened before and it will all happen again. It's not the end of the world.

**Akiasura**

chanceafs wrote:
A new codex comes out with several really good things, and everyone cries that it is overpowered.. then more codexes come out and it becomes just another book amongst the crowd. This has all happened before and it will all happen again. It's not the end of the world.

Yeah, the new Skitarri book is basically at the same power level as these guys, right? Same with the khorne book, anyone can see that.
And all the other 7th edition codexes are basically at the same power level too. A Jetbike with scatter lasers is basically the same firepower as 2 marines!

You guys have such short memories. The 6th edition eldar dex was balanced and not op at all. Lots of codexes that came before it and after it were basically at the same power level, no one ever complained about it. It's not like it was one of the strongest codexes out there and then just got buffed.

[/sarcasm]

Some of these claims are pretty out there.
Scatbikes having the same output as two marines? Marines are terrible. A single jetbike has 2x the shots at +12" range, or the same shots at triple the range. Also, +2 strength.
The bike is much faster and can JSJ for reasons.
This is with the scatter laser. Compare a naked bike to a marine and see what you get for 3 points. CSM had it bad when SM came out, chapter tactics for +1 point? Really?, but this is a lot worse.

Str D is way better at blowing up tanks then str 10. On average, and the standard deviation is much more in the Str D's favor.

**sudojoe**

Str d ignores cover on a 6. Str 10 does not ignore cover.

Str d does d3+1 hp/ wounds. Will instant kill on a 6. str 10 does 1 hp. Might be able to double out some things.

Str d does a pen/wound on a 2+ on anything. Str 10 does a glance on a 12 on a 2. Needs 4 to glance av14. can guarantee a pen on av14 targets I suppose.

**chanceafs**

If you're seriously saying that you've never seen players look at a new codex and go 'OMG its the most BROKEN THING EVAAARRR!!" before, only to have the game balance eventually catch up with the new dex. Then you really haven't been playing long.

Is it a codex that is better than most out there at the moment? yes. WIll it stay that way? No.

And as we all know, the #1 past time of 40K players is bitching about how good someone elses codex is.

**Poly Ranger**

Lovely tone you've got there.

On the flip side of the coin, if you can't see how broken the scatter bikes and stD on wraithknights and wraithguard is compared to anything in the past, we have to either question your tactical acuman and mathmatical ability or question how long you have been playing.

**Xerics**

If you think the codex is balanced and that the formations are limiting I present you this 1850 List

Windrider Host
Farseer Skyrunner: Singing Spear
Warlock Skyrunner: Singing Spear
Windriders x3
Windriders: Scatter Laser x3
Windriders: Scatter Laser x6
Vyper (Naked)
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon

**10penceman**

Just got the codex and read it
Have to say I like what they have done with the aspect warriors as I can personal see a point in taking them all now.
The formations are good maybe to good but since only necron and this one are of the same type maybe can't really complain as a whole until the rest of the dexes get bumped up.

I like the codex as a book in game its going to behard to beat if you spam but then what army isn't.
The dgun stuff suits the fluff perfectly but it is going to upset a hell of alot of people in a game very cheap dgun weapons but necrons have near every weapon that glances vehicles to death.

I do like what they did to wraith blades that added rage helps alot. There is some nice touches to this book and some questionable ones but I like the way the rules are kind of coming in line with the fluff but I seriously think points for certain things should be raised like dguns for vaul batterys should be at least 50pts, wraith guard dguns should have seen them bumped up in price by around 10-15pts a model and there is a few more bit easily fixed in house.

At least scatter lasers no longer give twin linked marker light ability how many noticed that

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you take the dgun wraiths and scatter lazer jetbikes out or increased there price I think the dex would be a welcome book in a lot of ways.

I ain't a eldar player well apart from dark eldar which I have made one of my main army's nids being my second. I will use this book for allies as I did harlequins a small group just to add more flavour wraith blades mostly just cause I love the looks of them I don't need dguns I have emp lol :p

**Akiasura**

chanceafs wrote:
If you're seriously saying that you've never seen players look at a new codex and go 'OMG its the most BROKEN THING EVAAARRR!!" before, only to have the game balance eventually catch up with the new dex. Then you really haven't been playing long.

I've been playing since 3rd and own nearly every army in this game bar formations and the mini-dexes.
And, to be fair, that is not at all what you said. What you said is that a codex comes along that is overpowered and people freak out, then other codexes come out that are just as bad and people stop caring.
I would think all the anti-waveserpent and Riptides discussions that were going on long after those dexes released would show this isn't the case.

I was pointing out, successfully mind you, that this did not happen in 6th edition. In 7th, it has been Necrons (Really strong!), Skitarri (Average to above average), to Eldar (Strongest Dex). All the codexes before necrons were about average.

Most editions were defined by one or two dexes being blatantly above everyone else. These were not the later dexes to released, but often about halfway through the edition and never balanced. Game balance didn't catch up with them, the edition changes and suddenly certain things that were op suck and everyone has to get new models. As was the case in 3rd to 4th edition, and in 5th to 6th.

chanceafs wrote:

Is it a codex that is better than most out there at the moment? yes. WIll it stay that way? No.

Change most to all. It stayed that way in 6th edition and will most likely stay that way for quite a while. Aren't DA up soon? Do you think they'll be better then Eldar, or even on par?
Those of us who don't main the power dexes will just have to wait I guess.

chanceafs wrote:

And as we all know, the #1 past time of 40K players is bitching about how good someone elses codex is.

Actually it seems more like it's attacking other posters for disagreeing with you

**Makumba**

And, to be fair, that is not at all what you said. What you said is that a codex comes along that is overpowered and people freak out, then other codexes come out that are just as bad and people stop caring.

Only eldar are not the first or second codex of an edition. GW first made a ton of books, and only when they reached necron and eldar they suddenly buffed their power up to 11.

**ZebioLizard2**

Makumba wrote:
And, to be fair, that is not at all what you said. What you said is that a codex comes along that is overpowered and people freak out, then other codexes come out that are just as bad and people stop caring.

Only eldar are not the first or second codex of an edition. GW first made a ton of books, and only when they reached necron and eldar they suddenly buffed their power up to 11.

To be fair it's just par for the course with Eldar, new dex comes and they are basically the Power dex of the edition.

**MWHistorian**

What happened to these hardback codexes being here to stay? The defense of their prices was that they were supposed to be set for a while. Now the defense of this eldar dex is that soon all the codexez will be redone. :/

**Wyldhunt**

@PolyRanger: Someone accused scaters of being ap4 earlier in this very thread!

As for 36" JSJ, bike range is nice, but without BLOS terrain, bikes ought to be pretty straightforward to deal with. They die more or less like marines do (with a chance to give themselves a cover save), and each kill is a not -insignificant chunk of points. Push a vindicator towards them, shoot artillery at them, drop pod on top of them, etc. The board is only so big. The issue is that they can pack a ridiculous amount of return fire, but bikes are far from impossible to catch or kill on a model-by-model basis.

**Brothererekose**

Xerics wrote:
If you think the codex is balanced and that the formations are limiting I present you this 1850 List

Windrider Host
Farseer Skyrunner: Singing Spear
Warlock Skyrunner: Singing Spear
Windriders x3
Windriders: Scatter Laser x3
Windriders: Scatter Laser x6
Vyper (Naked)
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon
Wraithknight: 2 Star Cannon

How are you getting four Lords of War in a list? No tourney that I've seen allows more than one (most are banned) , and for casual play no one would play against it.

I will admit the Wind Rider host does look scary/OP, but then that's gonna be a guy with a lot of money spent. I own 10 jetbikes cuz I got the Winder Rider Host box from years ago. Buy two more? Hell, no.

Yeah, there will be a douche or three who fields it, but given how much Drop Pods are in vogue now, muhreens are a heavy and popular Rock/Paper match up.

The Sky is still up there.

- - - - - - - - - -
**rereads page 95**
Do the RESTRICTIONS on page 95, that little box above "Asepct host" ... is *that* where multiple WKs are allowed? 1-12? If so, then ... well, tourneys will keep their own play fields clean on that.

Huh.

**Mr Morden**

MWHistorian wrote:
What happened to these hardback codexes being here to stay? The defense of their prices was that they were supposed to be set for a while. Now the defense of this eldar dex is that soon all the codexez will be redone. :/

Standard appologist defence:

Its not broken
Even if it is "you" just need to learn to play
Even if its its the rules so we can't change them cos "reasons"
Probably broken lets wait foe he FAQs/New Codex

Probably the most insulting (apart from LTP) is "oh I am sure you will get a codex at some point that is nearly as good - maybe in a few years - so its all fine.

**Brothererekose**

sudojoe wrote:
Str d ignores cover on a 6. Str 10 does not ignore cover.

Str d does d3+1 hp/ wounds. Will instant kill on a 6. str 10 does 1 hp. Might be able to double out some things.

Str d does a pen/wound on a 2+ on anything. Str 10 does a glance on a 12 on a 2. Needs 4 to glance av14. can guarantee a pen on av14 targets I suppose.

Yes, Ds are more powerful than Distort. Slightly, and only relevantly so against:

multi-wound models
and
vehicles

I will gladly pat bug players on the back and buy them a beer (no sarcasm) for this. There is plenty of Ignores Cover in the game, so one more isn't game breaking.

**Poly Ranger**

Wyldhunt wrote:
@PolyRanger: Someone accused scaters of being ap4 earlier in this very thread!

As for 36" JSJ, bike range is nice, but without BLOS terrain, bikes ought to be pretty straightforward to deal with. They die more or less like marines do (with a chance to give themselves a cover save), and each kill is a not -insignificant chunk of points. Push a vindicator towards them, shoot artillery at them, drop pod on top of them, etc. The board is only so big. The issue is that they can pack a ridiculous amount of return fire, but bikes are far from impossible to catch or kill on a model-by-model basis.

Sorry I must have completely missed that. If they were ap4... well I don't even know how to describe how ridiculous that would make them considering where they are already at.