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Of a further downswing where the Imperium is off balance and crumbling into fiefdoms.

Chikout wrote:
If they do another campaign they need to make the results matter. The best way would be to plan at least two stories based on the results. The imperium resurgent with primarchs at the fore, or the imperium facing it Darkest hour both have the potential for some compelling future campaigns. They have gone a long way to ressurecting aos by heavily involving the community. 40k would benefit from the same attention.

The darkest future of all... IoM, Tau, and Craftworld Eldar all have to ally as a faction. Eugh.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Of a further downswing where the Imperium is off balance and crumbling into fiefdoms.

That's the whole point of "The Beast Arises" series, and I don't even know how many other bits and bobs we've had over the years.

I'd be really disappointed if they did that again.

Beast Arises never got rules for the game.

Badab War and Reign of Blood are the closest it came to since the Heresy but the Imperium hasn't been forced into basically pre-Crusade era levels of separation yet.

"Beast Arises" is a major plot development happening right now.

You're welcome to say that it "never got rules for the game"(which is absolutely true) but it is also a thing going on right now.

It is seemingly laying the groundwork for the return of some Loyalist Primarchs(Vulkan states in "The Hunt for Vulkan" that he could not return yet to the Imperium as "this was not the war he was intended to return for"--and he tells one of the Last Wall that 'they are true Sons of Dorn and that when he next sees Dorn, he shall speak of his sons with pride') and possibly laying the groundwork for more Ork stuff later on.

Ok, how about this. Earth falls. The imperium is recentered in Ultramar. The major campaign is to take back Earth. As chaos comes close to victory, the tyranids invade the eye of terror. Etc. Etc. There are a hundred different ways they could take things that have not been done before.

 adamsouza wrote:
There hasn't been anything other than clickbait and wishful thinking for the release of 8th Edition 40K, that I have seen.
With the work on the FAQ's the timing seems dubious. An actual 8th edition, and not an updated 7th edition, rulebook would require actual rules changes.

This rumour comes from very reliable source though.

And what's so dubious about timing? FAQ's this year, 8th ed next year. GW has known history of releasing army books one year before new edition. Even when said edition INVALIDATED said army book! Nevermind End Times books which weren't even valid for more than few months for some. Short of you already having already huge collection you might not even have been able to build and paint force to take advantage of new rules before books got replaced by new game...

Compared to books that cost to produce free faq's invalidated ain't nothing.


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Prestor Jon wrote:
Forcing CSM Daemon Primarchs into 40K would exacerbate all of the current problems. Apocalypse has already crept into standard 40k way too much and there's so much rules bloat for everything and unbalanced units that throwing Daemon Primarchs into the mix would be awful. I'm the models would look great but what kind of points value would you need to play at to include Daemon Primarchs? If they have stats that reflect the fluff they'll cost a ton of points and now you're playing huge games with hundreds of models in a system with rules bloat that drags out gameplay even more. I don't see how putting more new and powerful units into 40k fixes anything.

Well even space marines are seriously underpowered to fluff(you should be looking more like S6, T6, 2+ rerollable save calibre) so who says they have to be as good as in fluff?

In 30k primarches are hardly the "I'm gonna destroy titan alone" guys they are in fluff. No reason to expect suddenly new ones would match fluff when they take liberties with fluff EVERYWHERE.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Except for Sisters of Battle players. You guys are the Bretonnian players of 40k. Sorry.

Nah, I figure that how things will probably play out we'll either become "Daemons of Order" like the Lizardmen, or become the 40k equiv to Sigmarines.

I don't think they'll even remember that Sisters exist.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think my only concern with Daemon Primarchs is making sure they're priced properly and line up with FW's power level for primarchs... that is to say they should obviously be stronger and more expensive, but I half expect GW to cost them cheaper than their unascended versions just to sell more.

And they'll be T6 as well, 'cause you just know they will be. 'Cept Mortarion. He'll be T7, and he'll have an extra wound.

No eternal warrior either.


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 Kanluwen wrote:
The Imperium has been "facing its darkest hour" for almost 30 years now.

It'd be nice to have the Imperium on the upswing.

Just seeing the narrative advance would be nice. It sounds like we're heading towards Daemon Primarchs return and then some loyalist Primarchs will return to match them. Just the question of how the Imperium will respond to that is exciting enough even if it doesn't go further than a stalemate.

I said most people don't like Tau. I never said most people hate Tau. But if it offended you sorry I didn't mean it to.

There's a topic, stick to it.

I think it's pretty clear and has been since Baal and Fenris that we are moving toward an End Times. However, GW just wont take it that final step this time.

This 'rumor' isn't really anything new that wasn't already surmised by previous rumors. More just a confirmation of what we thought.

Also GW probably will drag this out longer than the WFB End Times. GW is clearly taking their time.

We won't see the fall of Terra or the Death of the Emperor. We will see the return of some primarchs (demon and otherwise). It will probably end with Ababadaddaon in in the Sol system headed for earth and Rowboat and Vulkan on the stairs of the Palace waiting. And the Lion skewering mutant Russ on his blade (one can only hope).

Remeber, Atia said 'one minute to midnight'. That's 00:59. Not 00:01.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Beast Arises never got rules for the game.

Badab War and Reign of Blood are the closest it came to since the Heresy but the Imperium hasn't been forced into basically pre-Crusade era levels of separation yet.

Wasn't there that event with Cacodominus in M34 that heavily distorted the light of Astronomican making warp travel impossible for most of the imperium?

tneva82 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
There hasn't been anything other than clickbait and wishful thinking for the release of 8th Edition 40K, that I have seen.

This rumour comes from very reliable source though.

Site your source then.

 adamsouza wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
There hasn't been anything other than clickbait and wishful thinking for the release of 8th Edition 40K, that I have seen.

This rumour comes from very reliable source though.

Site your source then.

Sad Panda was the source. For that. Not sure what thread it was in though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Sad Panda was the source. For that. Not sure what thread it was in though.

The last thing I saw Sad Panda say on the matter was that there was no 8th edition in 2016.

I've have seen plenty of people wishlist that into a prediction of 8th edition in 2017.

If he's said something else on the matter since, I apologize, but I'd still like to see it.

 adamsouza wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Sad Panda was the source. For that. Not sure what thread it was in though.

The last thing I saw Sad Panda say on the matter was that there was no 8th edition in 2016.

I've have seen plenty of people wishlist that into a prediction of 8th edition in 2017.

If he's said something else on the matter since, I apologize, but I'd still like to see it.

He didn't give a date, but he did say that 8th was coming soon. Some people seemed to assume that meant next year.

This rumour was from lady atia. Very reliable.

As I was told (though it might be nonsense), the earliest sessions to start work on a new edition led to the decision to not update (for the most part) the Tau Codex and no longer re-do older books. Apparently they actually had more thorough rule-changes for the Tau, scrapped them, but still printed loads of not-new Tau Codex books because the printers were already booked, leading to the hybrid old/new Codex that is the Tau book.

But they are definitely working on a new edition. It just won't be released in 2016, not least (as I heard) because they want to move the story and need time for that.

Sad Panda wrote:
As I was told (though it might be nonsense), the earliest sessions to start work on a new edition led to the decision to not update (for the most part) the Tau Codex and no longer re-do older books.

Does that imply the mechanical changes to 8th edition are planned to be significant enough to make the effort of creating more involved rules for 7th a waste of time and resources? Or is that wishful thinking on my part?

 adamsouza wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
There hasn't been anything other than clickbait and wishful thinking for the release of 8th Edition 40K, that I have seen.

This rumour comes from very reliable source though.

Site your source then.

You didn't read first message of this thread then?

Saw this on Lady Atia's blog.

Atia's been pretty damn spot on. If she's saying something it's hardly what can be called clickbaiting.

Sad Panda wrote:
As I was told (though it might be nonsense), the earliest sessions to start work on a new edition led to the decision to not update (for the most part) the Tau Codex and no longer re-do older books. Apparently they actually had more thorough rule-changes for the Tau, scrapped them, but still printed loads of not-new Tau Codex books because the printers were already booked, leading to the hybrid old/new Codex that is the Tau book.

But they are definitely working on a new edition. It just won't be released in 2016, not least (as I heard) because they want to move the story and need time for that.

So they put on hold all non-7th edition codex while working on new rulebook?
Or it's a simultaneous work?

And I just wonder - was there any changes in game design department after Tim Kirby left?

 Galef wrote:
Doing a 40K End Times would be cool, as long as it doesn't actually end like Fantasy. Building up to a cleaned-up (read slimmed down) 8th ed would be ok.

I just don't want to relearn a whole new ruleset and have to revamp all my army lists....again.

To be fair though, do you want GW to disappear? I mean put yourself in there shoes. How will you make money if you keep everything the same? something has to change. So a new rule set keeps GW in business. After all we want to keep playing right? Yes it sucks learning a new rule set. Yes it sucks revamping the armies. For a lot of people making new armies is half the fun. Sometimes we have to suffer a bit or accept the minor annoyances to be able to keep playing. The other end is keeping everything the same, means no games to play in the short future.

Neronoxx wrote:
Saw this on Lady Atia's blog.
"Howdy Guys and Girls

A white raven appeared today and brought me a message - winter is coming ...

Warhammer 40k turns 30 years old next year. The new edition is due. The clock will be taken from 5 minutes to midnight to 1 minute to midnight with the return of the Daemonprimarchs - or will they return alone? This is the theme of the new setting - think along the lines of 13th Black Crusade - but this time, it's serious. They want to get the same excitement as the community had during the End Times - without actually going as far as Age of Sigmar did.

Chaos fans - this is your hour. Stop beeing grudgy, there will be lots of love for all of you - renegades, former legions, daemon lovers.

The lore already start to unfold, with the Shield of Baal and Warzone Fenris - so we are already within the action. As usual, this is a bit of an early talk, so stay cool and take it with a tiny bit of salt.

regards,
Lady Atia"

Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?

Will that Demon Primarch one of the two Primarchs of the two Legions declared 'In Damnio Memoria'?

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Even wity lessons learned from AoS and rules simplifying I just can't see the exact AoS steps being taken.

I can. Free data slate rules for all minis. Simplified rules. That doesn't mean AoS rules. Have a few pages on how to move, shoot, assault and psychic power phase or how it will work now. All individual or special rules be printed on a card or be on the data slates of the minis themselves as to not convolute the rule book.

While AoS only has 4 pages, really 2 pages of rules, there is so many special rules on the war scrolls, that AoS is really not a simple came but a simpler game now, with a lot of complexity. It works because you don't feel like you have to remember the entire rule book and when you need to find that rule, it's on the war scroll right in front of you and don't have to flip through book and waste time arguing how something works.

This can all be done without destroying the setting like what happened to Fantasy. I am sure Mr Roundtree will not let this happen. So you can say LESSON LEARNED.


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 Sinful Hero wrote:
[
I was trying to make the point you could prevent Chaos or Tyranids from "winning" if on a whole they're given less than stellar rules.

They don't have stellar rules now. I am not sure what you are trying to say. Please explain.


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 Kanluwen wrote:
The Imperium has been "facing its darkest hour" for almost 30 years now.

It'd be nice to have the Imperium on the upswing.

Be careful what you wish for. Fluff doesn't exactly go turn into power units in codices. Look at the rumours for Nids. Since they didn't have allies they were suppose to be strong codex so they didn't have to use allies. We all seen how that turned out. Just because the rumour is Chaos Space Marines will be the big focus and be all powerful in the fluff doesn't mean they will be top tier army in codex power. Yes they might get a new codex, but still be like it is or just better but not top tier. So going by that yes the Imperium might be on the upswing, but then the new codex might be weaker even though the fluff shows them to be powerful.

I don't know, it just seems a lot of times what is in the fluff or stories, is the exact opposite how the codex works for them.

Davor wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Doing a 40K End Times would be cool, as long as it doesn't actually end like Fantasy. Building up to a cleaned-up (read slimmed down) 8th ed would be ok.

I just don't want to relearn a whole new ruleset and have to revamp all my army lists....again.

To be fair though, do you want GW to disappear? I mean put yourself in there shoes. How will you make money if you keep everything the same? something has to change. So a new rule set keeps GW in business. After all we want to keep playing right? Yes it sucks learning a new rule set. Yes it sucks revamping the armies. For a lot of people making new armies is half the fun. Sometimes we have to suffer a bit or accept the minor annoyances to be able to keep playing. The other end is keeping everything the same, means no games to play in the short future.

Funny how other games manage to survive without redoing everything all the time though.

And besides GW has been insisten on them being MODEL company with MODELS being their main focus. That means they could release new models without redoing fluff and rules constantly. Indeed this would allow them more time to focus on models rather than spend some of time on rules as well.


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 Lone Cat wrote:

Will that Demon Primarch one of the two Primarchs of the two Legions declared 'In Damnio Memoria'?

Not likely. While I don't think it's impossible those gets introduced one day in some form or other the daemon primarch has been pretty much confirmed to be Magnus.


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Davor wrote:
They don't have stellar rules now. I am not sure what you are trying to say. Please explain.

I think that's his point. Conspiracy theory remember? He's suggesting enemies of Imperium have been in past given deliberately lousy rules to ensure they can't possibly win this campaign. Pretty long term planning that.

^ If so he will be the second Demon Primarch to show up in a materium, the first one since Angorn attacked Armageddon (and lose! banished (or killed?) by Grey Knights.

 Lone Cat wrote:
^ If so he will be the second Demon Primarch to show up in a materium, the first one since Angorn attacked Armageddon (and lose! banished (or killed?) by Grey Knights.

The Daemon Primarchs show up all the time. Mortarion showed up (Draigo killed him to become SGM). Perturabo has a story in GK codex aboout unleashing a Nurgle plague. Angron at Armaggeddon and probably a few other times as well.

tneva82 wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Doing a 40K End Times would be cool, as long as it doesn't actually end like Fantasy. Building up to a cleaned-up (read slimmed down) 8th ed would be ok.

I just don't want to relearn a whole new ruleset and have to revamp all my army lists....again.

To be fair though, do you want GW to disappear? I mean put yourself in there shoes. How will you make money if you keep everything the same? something has to change. So a new rule set keeps GW in business. After all we want to keep playing right? Yes it sucks learning a new rule set. Yes it sucks revamping the armies. For a lot of people making new armies is half the fun. Sometimes we have to suffer a bit or accept the minor annoyances to be able to keep playing. The other end is keeping everything the same, means no games to play in the short future.

Funny how other games manage to survive without redoing everything all the time though.

And besides GW has been insisten on them being MODEL company with MODELS being their main focus. That means they could release new models without redoing fluff and rules constantly. Indeed this would allow them more time to focus on models rather than spend some of time on rules as well.

Most other games have fluff that moves forwards, and they still have edition changes and such. Edition changes generally not as often granted but they still change things.

As for them being a model company, I think that was Kirby who continually stated that. He's gone. Things are changing.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
^ If so he will be the second Demon Primarch to show up in a materium, the first one since Angorn attacked Armageddon (and lose! banished (or killed?) by Grey Knights.

The Daemon Primarchs show up all the time. Mortarion showed up (Draigo killed him to become SGM). Perturabo has a story in GK codex aboout unleashing a Nurgle plague. Angron at Armaggeddon and probably a few other times as well.

Fulgrim and Mortarion as well.

Though albeit most of them are mostly just...Well sitting. That's pretty lame excuse to avoid releasing model and rule. I mean Lorgar has been basically locked up in his hiding place all this time meditating or whatever he's doing. Could have them been doing BIT more in the years between HH and now and then have them go into hiding to build up for the final attack. Rather than just sit at the eye all this time