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winterdyne wrote:
That BTP Swarmlord is godawful for the money. I'd expect to put out close to 30-40 hours work for that, which I'd think would take a model like that up to almost competition grade work, and certainly something that would be at home in a display case. What's picture is just... gak. Sorry, but it's gak.

WTF. I went back to look at it, and I was about to post something like "it's not stunning, but it's still better than most people paint their own armies" in defense of it as a low-end tabletop job for a low-budget customer. And then I saw that BTP charged $500 for that.

Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

 techsoldaten wrote:
He sent the models off to BTP.

Well, some people have no sense I guess. Seems to be how BTP stays in business.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

 techsoldaten wrote:
He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

Not well is my bet.

Out of interest, did he read this thread before making his decision?

It's like he willingly shot himself in the foot.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

Fething RIP dude. Burned his last paycheck. Hopefully your friend is wealthy and can tank the hit/disappointment

 techsoldaten wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

He really didn't read any feed back from the last ten threads burning BTP

Good job

 techsoldaten wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

Oh dear.

Whilst it's unkind to laugh at others' misfortune, I'm getting a big bucket of popcorn for when the pics and prices come in.

winterdyne wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

He sent the models off to BTP. Will keep everyone updated on how this turns out.

Oh dear.

Whilst it's unkind to laugh at others' misfortune, I'm getting a big bucket of popcorn for when the pics and prices come in.

I too - eagerly await pictures.

Some people don't always make the best decisions.

To give you some perspective: he is legally blind.

I know enough folks with terrible eyesight / glaucoma to know that they can still tell the difference between shoddy work and a good paintjob.

I really, really hope he's satisfied with what he gets, and I really hope the job's done properly and to a reasonable standard for the budget.

I also hope he's not banking on someone being able to 'fix up' the work if it's not good. That almost never works out well.

Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Sometimes telling somebody not to do something just makes them all the more likely to stick their finger in the light socket.

The Auld Grump - anyone surprised that I'm not surprised?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Sometimes telling somebody not to do something just makes them all the more likely to stick their finger in the light socket.

I prefer Ren and Stimpy's "Don't Wizz on the Electric Fence" warning.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Some people don't always make the best decisions.

To give you some perspective: he is legally blind.

Ahh that makes sense then. Tabletop quality should suffice then. They can probably bang out a basic 1850-1999 point 40k army without breaking your budget as long as your friend doesnt ask for any crazy Swarmlord level conversions!

Good luck OP's friend!

One of my friends had a 2000 point Imperial Fists army painted (5th edition) by them a few years back for around $900. It wasn't bad by any means. He genuinely enjoys playing the army and has used it for years. His own painting skills caught up to the level his armies at - simple dip then highlight and base. I helped him rebase some of them with the Army Painter tufts. They seem to get a terrible reputation for any time they try and go past "Tabletop" Quality. For an army to get ready to game with? It's his decision and I'm excited to see pictures of his army!

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
It's like he willingly shot himself in the foot.

There are lots of people with more money than brains. That's how Barnum got rich!

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

(Note: what they couldn't understand was that no amount of happy customers or success stories would excuse the treatment the Chaos Dwarf dude received or BTP's conduct, nor that the entire thread and situation was under close scrutiny by BTP therefore nullifying his endeavour to provide a control case study to compare against)

 Anfauglir wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

(Note: what they couldn't understand was that no amount of happy customers or success stories would excuse the treatment the Chaos Dwarf dude received or BTP's conduct, nor that the entire thread and situation was under close scrutiny by BTP therefore nullifying his endeavour to provide a control case study to compare against)

I'm sure it turned out just fine, if only because the spotlight was on BTP.

And really, that's about the only way I'd use BTP, where they were put under the microscope and basically forced to perform to standard, at risk of the sort of negative publicity that would shut them down permanently.

 kronk wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Sometimes telling somebody not to do something just makes them all the more likely to stick their finger in the light socket.

I prefer Ren and Stimpy's "Don't Wizz on the Electric Fence" warning.

you EEEEEDIOT!

If you're only paying for and expecting low end work, BTP don't look *terrible*. One big mistake the Chaos Dwarf guy made was he paid for high level jobs on it (I think 2nd highest or highest on a lot of stuff) and those levels just don't look good compared to other decent commission painters.

One thing I took out of BTP from the CD debacle (aside from how poorly BTP handled the case) was they don't show good images so people seem to get deceived. I can't necessarily call it false advertising, but they just don't zoom in far enough for a non-critical eye to realise even their high level stuff isn't actually all that great.

Bad models often look fine if you photograph them from far enough away and don't zoom in, at least to someone who's not paying close attention.

Just to clarify, the CD guy asked BTP what it would cost to paint to a certain spec that BTP had themselves shown as a sample army. The level of performance was very clear, and very clearly not up to spec. It's not like he just paid for an arbitrary level. BTP simply ignored what he had requested, after BTP had received his models and initial payment.

It's like walking onto a car dealer's lot, seeing a Corvette that's being prepped for delivery, and asking what it would cost to get the same car. The dealer says X, and defines the downpayment. You pay it, and a long time later, the dealer tells you that your "Corvette" is ready, and it's just a Malibu with a couple Corvette stickers taped to it. As opposed to the Corvette that you paid and signed for.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

(Note: what they couldn't understand was that no amount of happy customers or success stories would excuse the treatment the Chaos Dwarf dude received or BTP's conduct, nor that the entire thread and situation was under close scrutiny by BTP therefore nullifying his endeavour to provide a control case study to compare against)

I'm sure it turned out just fine, if only because the spotlight was on BTP.

And really, that's about the only way I'd use BTP, where they were put under the microscope and basically forced to perform to standard, at risk of the sort of negative publicity that would shut them down permanently.

Wasn't that the project where BTP charged him something like 40-50$ to add a pair of havoc launchers to hit rhinos?

 Zywus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

I'm sure it turned out just fine, if only because the spotlight was on BTP.

Wasn't that the project where BTP charged him something like 40-50$ to add a pair of havoc launchers to hit rhinos?

Wait, really? Anybody got a link? I didn't follow it. I just know it didn't blow up with a colossal feth-up.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

I'm sure it turned out just fine, if only because the spotlight was on BTP.

Wasn't that the project where BTP charged him something like 40-50$ to add a pair of havoc launchers to hit rhinos?

Wait, really? Anybody got a link? I didn't follow it. I just know it didn't blow up with a colossal feth-up.

Found it!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/622435.page

Apparently it was 60$ for two havoc launchers

 M0ff3l wrote:
I didnt really agree with the pricing on those conversions, 60$ is way too much just to replace hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers. But oh well, it saved me the trouble of sniping them from some online bits website and having to wait till they get here.

 Zywus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Don't forget - back when the whole Chaos Dwarf Debacle was unfolding there was a Dakka member that decided to show everyone how wrong they were, and sent his Chaos marines off to Blue Table.

Oh yeah I remember that. What happened with that project in the end?

I'm sure it turned out just fine, if only because the spotlight was on BTP.

Wasn't that the project where BTP charged him something like 40-50$ to add a pair of havoc launchers to hit rhinos?

Wait, really? Anybody got a link? I didn't follow it. I just know it didn't blow up with a colossal feth-up.

Found it!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/622435.page

Apparently it was 60$ for two havoc launchers

 M0ff3l wrote:
I didnt really agree with the pricing on those conversions, 60$ is way too much just to replace hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers. But oh well, it saved me the trouble of sniping them from some online bits website and having to wait till they get here.

Here's a link to the finished army. It looks fine, but for about $800 + $60 for the bits, I'm pretty disappointed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/sets/72157647485459253/

And, wow. That's crazy.

 jreilly89 wrote:


Here's a link to the finished army. It looks fine, but for about $800 + $60 for the bits, I'm pretty disappointed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/sets/72157647485459253/

Love the static grass clinging to the Nurgle Terminator's chest and legs. Nothing says "god of pestilence" like rogue grass springing from rotted flesh.

For $800 that paint work leaves a lot to be desired.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And, wow. That's crazy.

Yep. Cypher looks okay, but none of it screams "Top level" painting or whatever their highest bracket is.

 Zywus wrote:
Found it!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/622435.page

Apparently it was 60$ for two havoc launchers

 M0ff3l wrote:
I didnt really agree with the pricing on those conversions, 60$ is way too much just to replace hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers. But oh well, it saved me the trouble of sniping them from some online bits website and having to wait till they get here.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Here's a link to the finished army. It looks fine, but for about $800 + $60 for the bits, I'm pretty disappointed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/sets/72157647485459253/

Ahh yes, there we are.

My, my... M0ff3l, possibly the most expensive bit of White Knighting ever to grace the interwebs, eh? And what did it prove in the end? Nothing except what was said all along; at best, BTP advertise, promise and charge for premuim work and only deliver, well, non-premium results. Knowing that job was under the spotlight in the wake of CD scandal, and still delivering a paintjob that isn't special or noteworthy in any way is just futher damning evidence.

Well, TC's friend may well be perfectly satisfied with the results, but it doesn't change the fact that they've in all likelyhood overpaid, and could have gotten better/same service for the same/less money elsewhere, with considerably less risk. Oh well, people with more money than sense will always keep companies like BTP going.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Just to clarify, the CD guy asked BTP what it would cost to paint to a certain spec that BTP had themselves shown as a sample army. The level of performance was very clear, and very clearly not up to spec. It's not like he just paid for an arbitrary level. BTP simply ignored what he had requested, after BTP had received his models and initial payment.

It's like walking onto a car dealer's lot, seeing a Corvette that's being prepped for delivery, and asking what it would cost to get the same car. The dealer says X, and defines the downpayment. You pay it, and a long time later, the dealer tells you that your "Corvette" is ready, and it's just a Malibu with a couple Corvette stickers taped to it. As opposed to the Corvette that you paid and signed for.

I don't think BTP ever showed a high end job of their own work as a sample.

The CD had a lot of problems, one of which was models being painted to a lower level than what was paid for (which from memory they did admit pretty early in the piece), but another big problem was that the client had an overflated expectation of what the levels were.

I'm not sure if BTP still show images of their "levels", but back when the CD project was done, they did have pictures and they were all taken at a long enough distance that to the untrained eye they probably looked fine. But if you examined even the high levels closely, they really weren't that great even in the sample images.

So to use your car analogy, I think even the samples themselves were Malibus with a Corvette sticker taped on, BTP have never had Corvettes in their garage, they just have Malibus that they call Corvettes but they take photos from far enough away and with shaky enough video camera footage that the customer themselves if they're not paying attention might mistake the Malibu for a Corvette.