Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tneva82 wrote:
I still play first born and primaris mixed so guess that shows I'm not too fussed...Which I guess answers. If I want to start it would be good.

Problem is my previous employer bankrupted so I'm out of job atm :-/ Makes hard to commit. I could get to 1.5k reasonably cheaply but that final 500 pts is irritatingly expensive.

Ahh, that makes it a little rougher. I think he old combat patrol works really good for splashing into a collection to boost the size of the hive fleet. But if the budget is tight, you probably are more interested in what gaps you have with what you own, and what kits you need to fill them.

For example, if you are light on AV firepower, a couple venom cannons might not be what you need.

The box has chaff and generalists, which work well, but but be redundant in a small force.

Plan was to add to my leviathan box this for warriors, more termagaunts(never bad to have more bodies) and swarmlord. Then add up tyranofex for AT oomph. This gets me to 1.5k. Then think rest of 500 later while paint these.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny note. Even though they don't have guns they are elligble to shoot so valid for many secondaries that involve "actions"

Ran into this with necron scarabs.

Interesting. I will definitely keep this in mind

How do we feel about Genestealers for anti-infantry melee? Perhaps with a Broodlord attached? They seem kind of expensive for what you get since they aren't that tough. Melee Warriors don't seem much better; in fact I'd rather just take shooty Warriors and use them for melee in a pinch since they can fall back, shoot, and charge. Von Ryan's Leapers seem like they are what Genestealers want to be in a lot of ways. Is there a place for Genestealers in 10th edition Nids lists? I ask because I have some kicking around thanks to the Lost Patrol box from a few years back.

Genestealers with Broodlord hits like a truck against units on objectives.

But yes kinda fragile.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
How do we feel about Genestealers for anti-infantry melee? Perhaps with a Broodlord attached? They seem kind of expensive for what you get since they aren't that tough. Melee Warriors don't seem much better; in fact I'd rather just take shooty Warriors and use them for melee in a pinch since they can fall back, shoot, and charge. Von Ryan's Leapers seem like they are what Genestealers want to be in a lot of ways. Is there a place for Genestealers in 10th edition Nids lists? I ask because I have some kicking around thanks to the Lost Patrol box from a few years back.

The broodlord seems like a nice buff. He give the pack of them divesting wounds. With their wound re-rolls, especially clearing objective, I think they can cause some harm. The -1 to hit he hands out might help them survive combat.

8” move plus 8” scout + charge can cover some table if you go first.

T4 5++ is not that good for taking fire. 2W at least, which will help weather small arms. Still a bit of a glass cannon. But this is not new for them.

Leapers are faster, tougher and have an extra wound each. 4+/6++ instead of 5++. More attacks, but 3+ not 2+. Higher S, but no re-rolls. Worse AP. Infiltrate, not scout. Stealth to help keep them alive. Fights first, which seems really nice. Cost less. No character to lead them.

I think the stealers are more high risk, high reward. The are fragile, but look like they will hit hard. The broodlord is a chunk of points, but the potential synergy to fish for devastating wound seems like it would chew through almost anything. Especially clearing objectives.

Leapers seem a good harassment unit. Good in combat, but not crazy blenders. More defensive. Stealth and fights first should let them survive long enough to do things.

Looking at them I’m seeing different roles. Leapers are backfield shenanigans. They have the tools to get to soft backfield units, and punch hard enough to mess them up. But I think they would struggle against tougher targets Stealers are more shock troops. Rush, kill, eat, repeat.

Now I’ve not played any 10th yet, so this is all theoryhammer. I think they can get some work done. Are they the most effective tool in the box? No clue. But I think they should be able to get some work done.

And everyone has a handful kicking around if you’ve been in 40k for any length of time, so might as well field them.

Looking through my old collection I have a list I'm interested to try - it's probably not that great but I'm hoping it'll still be fun to play with and against.

The core of it is 'flood objectives with a bucket of respawning gaunts' using the endless spawn stratagem and the tervigons, with five literal 'distraction carnifex', now improved with 'run at you when you shoot us' ability.




Strike Force (2000 points)
Invasion Fleet


CHARACTER

Tervigon (225 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Massive crushing claws
1x Stinger salvoes
• Enhancement: Adaptive Biology

Tervigon (200 points)
• 1x Massive scything talons
1x Stinger salvoes

Tervigon (200 points)
• 1x Massive scything talons
1x Stinger salvoes


BATTLELINE

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth

Termagants (120 points)
• 20x Fleshborer
20x Xenos claws and teeth


OTHER DATASHEETS

Carnifexes (250 points)
• 2x Bio-plasma
2x Carnifex extra scything talons
2x Carnifex scything talons
2x Xenos claws and teeth

Carnifexes (250 points)
• 2x Bio-plasma
2x Carnifex extra scything talons
2x Carnifex scything talons
2x Xenos claws and teeth

Carnifexes (125 points)
• 1x Bio-plasma
1x Carnifex extra scything talons
1x Carnifex scything talons
1x Xenos claws and teeth

A unit of 2 Carnifxes can never be below half-strength, right?

Truckules wrote:
Any thoughts about Ripper swarms? They can no longer hold objectives, won't survive much and certainly won't kill anything. So what do we do with them? Deepstrike them in turn 1 and simply use them as speedbumps?

I wish they were toughness 3 but couldn’t deepstrike as a trade off.

Love the image in my head of a massive carpet of rippers advancing before the main army.

You use rippers to screen against deep strikers. Or put them in strategic reservers to achieve secondaries like behind enemy lines, engage on all fronts, etc.

 p5freak wrote:
You use rippers to screen against deep strikers. Or put them in strategic reservers to achieve secondaries like behind enemy lines, engage on all fronts, etc.

I did have a game the other night were I thought I wish I had some rippers to deep strike in to degrade my opponents objective holding unit while supporting my own assault. I used leapers which were fun - a unit of three isn't big enough to do enough damage but don't necessarily look menacing enough to attract fire.I'm thinking of combining them with a deep striking lictor for extra punch and to mess up my opponents backfield. Rippers might add in another element to.

Rippers vs Neurogaunts for a cheap swarm?

I don’t know why I like the aesthetic of rippers so much and was disappointed to see their stats this edition (although I supposed the spinefists are free). In my mind I love the image of the full 18 ripper swarm models

That being said, are neurogaunts just better for a big swarm of models?

Rippers:
2.9 points per wound
T2
Get to shoot
OC 0 :(

Neurogaunts:
4.5 points per wound
T3
No shooting
OC 1

What do you think?

 silverstu wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You use rippers to screen against deep strikers. Or put them in strategic reservers to achieve secondaries like behind enemy lines, engage on all fronts, etc.

I did have a game the other night were I thought I wish I had some rippers to deep strike in to degrade my opponents objective holding unit while supporting my own assault. I used leapers which were fun - a unit of three isn't big enough to do enough damage but don't necessarily look menacing enough to attract fire.I'm thinking of combining them with a deep striking lictor for extra punch and to mess up my opponents backfield. Rippers might add in another element to.

Rippers scored me 4vp alone yesterday. Not bad for 35pts. Another 35 would have netted 2 more.

If you don"t build list for fixed secondary unit is worth just for deepstrike. Nevermind screen or halving oc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nemesis464 wrote:
Rippers vs Neurogaunts for a cheap swarm?

I don’t know why I like the aesthetic of rippers so much and was disappointed to see their stats this edition (although I supposed the spinefists are free). In my mind I love the image of the full 18 ripper swarm models

That being said, are neurogaunts just better for a big swarm of models?

Less wounds per point, less melee attack, no deep strike. You are paying for oc and ability to lead neurotyrant(giving it bonuses to hit/wound).

Different roles.

Neurogaunts are excellent for screening. 11 models cover a big area.

The main points I found with 10th Nids so far:

A Carnifex & Old One Eye is such a powerhouse unit for the points - especially with Claws & Venom cannon.The cannon underperforms a bit imho, but the claws just tin-open vehicles, especially with the hit rerolls from Old One Eye.
Having a D6+2 Blistering assault move when you take a would is also very powerful, it's got me into engagement range and stopped me being targetted by Blast weapons several times now.

High toughness monsters are a nightmare to shift - the Fex & Mawlock tank shooting like nobodys business, even with full rounds of being focused.

Swarm Infantry just evaporates in 10th - for competitive lists I'm only going to use big bugs. Get enough charging at your opponent and they're in trouble - they can't ignore any of them, but generally have to focus just one a turn to kill it (and still often don't)

A couple of biovores can pop out mines on T1 (& T2 as well if you go first) that can screen your backfield from Deep Strikers OR stop advances if you put them up front - depends on what army/mission you're facing, but it's fantastic utility to have.

I'm seriously considering a Tyrannocyte drop pod loaded with Hive Guard & Shock Cannons for my next game - dropping 6 Hive Guard within shooting range of a tank & getting twelve 3+ to hit, 3 damage shots that have '2+ Anti Vehicle' (so LOTS of mortal wounds) is potentially a killer combo for an army that is generally better at killing infantry than vehicles. It should earn it's 300pts back quite easily. Can't wait to try it.

 Daedricbob wrote:
dropping 6 Hive Guard within shooting range of a tank & getting twelve 3+ to hit, 3 damage shots that have '2+ Anti Vehicle' (so LOTS of mortal wounds) is potentially a killer combo for an army that is generally better at killing infantry than vehicles. It should earn it's 300pts back quite easily. Can't wait to try it.

I wouldn't get too excited - Hive Guard don't do mortal wounds. Their Anti just means they wound vehicles on a 2+.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 Daedricbob wrote:
dropping 6 Hive Guard within shooting range of a tank & getting twelve 3+ to hit, 3 damage shots that have '2+ Anti Vehicle' (so LOTS of mortal wounds) is potentially a killer combo for an army that is generally better at killing infantry than vehicles. It should earn it's 300pts back quite easily. Can't wait to try it.

I wouldn't get too excited - Hive Guard don't do mortal wounds. Their Anti just means they wound vehicles on a 2+.

People get so excited when they see 'anti' on anything that they forget that it's Devastating Wounds that does the mortals.

I think they still have a use though. -1 ap 3 damage isn't terrible.

Niche, great against dark eldar vehicles.

Question about Lictors:

Pheromone Trail wrote: Once per battle round, you can target one model with this ability with the Rapid Ingress Stratagem for 0CP.

RAPID INGRESS wrote:
CORE – STRATEGIC PLOY STRATAGEM
Be it cunning strategy, potent technology or supernatural ritual, there are many means by which a commander may hasten their warriors’ onset.
1CP
WHEN: End of your opponent’s Movement phase.
TARGET: One unit from your army that is in Reserves.
EFFECT: Your unit can arrive on the battlefield as if it were the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase.
RESTRICTIONS: You cannot use this Stratagem to enable a unit to arrive on the battlefield during a battle round it would not normally be able to do so in.

So in the past, lictors helped other units show up. But looking at the rules here, it seems that the lictor can only target itself with the strat. So less leaving a trail of pheromones for other broods to follow, but more showing up unseen at an odd time to try to ambush stuff.

Am I reading this wrong?

No. You read it right.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I think they still have a use though. -1 ap 3 damage isn't terrible.

Not good either. Not getting cover is almost impossible. The enemy vehicle will have 2+ or 3+ sv against your hive guard attacks. Thats 6 or 3 damage, depending on sv.

On they other hand they are pretty good against Dark Eldar 4+ save vehicles.

I have been comparing the building guide booklet that came with Leviathan to the index and I noticed a couple of things:

* The booklet calls the tiny floating brain models that come with the Neurotyrant 'Neuroloids', and they have their own stats. The index has no mention of Neuroloids, but it does mention 'Synaptic Relay tokens' in the text relating to the Neurotyrant's abiltities. I assume that the neuroloids have been demoted to representing these tokens?
* Is there a point to Neurogaunt node beasts that I am missing? They are identical to the other models in their unit in terms of stats and cost. Why make them a different model?

 Bilge Rat wrote:
* The booklet calls the tiny floating brain models that come with the Neurotyrant 'Neuroloids', and they have their own stats. The index has no mention of Neuroloids, but it does mention 'Synaptic Relay tokens' in the text relating to the Neurotyrant's abiltities. I assume that the neuroloids have been demoted to representing these tokens?

We're just not sure. There are many differences in that assembly booklet (including Combi-Weapons that actually do different things! ), so they could be old concepts, or they could be something that will be in the full Codex. We just don't know.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
* Is there a point to Neurogaunt node beasts that I am missing? They are identical to the other models in their unit in terms of stats and cost. Why make them a different model?

You're not missing anything. The Neurogaunt leaders do literally nothing.

Weird. Thank you!

The node beast is on a 28mm base, not a 25mm.

So it is technically slightly different from the rest of the squad. Use that to your tactical advantage however you may.

What have people been using their Malanthropes as, if anything?

Questions:

1.) Can 3 Tyranid Warriors really take 1 Venom Cannon and 1 Stranglethorn? The app says this.

2.) Since a lictor cannot DS, is he really supposed to walk on foot on the battlefield via his "Rapid Ingress" for free?

From my 2 games I also deduce that big monsters with 2+ Save are king. However 1 or 2 units of small gribblies might be worth it for objective baby sitting.

 Astmeister wrote:
Questions:

1.) Can 3 Tyranid Warriors really take 1 Venom Cannon and 1 Stranglethorn? The app says this.

2.) Since a lictor cannot DS, is he really supposed to walk on foot on the battlefield via his "Rapid Ingress" for free?

From my 2 games I also deduce that big monsters with 2+ Save are king. However 1 or 2 units of small gribblies might be worth it for objective baby sitting.

1) Yes, they can. another case of "you get whats in the box". I'm not gonna bother arm swapping mine and just stick to venoms and deathspitters because i think haveing 3 different weapons in a 3 man squad looks silly.

2) Yes, you have to use the strategic reserves rules to come on from the side. They are probably much better off just using infiltrate.