Okay -- in the UK anyway -- the Mines of Moria box sets are being pulled (for good) and will either be sent back/returned as time goes by or opened up for use as demo minis etc etc.
The usually reliable Mr. BramGaunt from 'seer posted the following
So, here is what I heard on The Hobbit release in december. Take with salt, allthough my source was pretty confident, and he should know.
Release of The Hobbit game is scheduled for december 1st, with preorders starting November 24th. New WD should hold all the information, so I'd expect pictures around the 20th.
The LotR tabletop game will be renamed "The Hobbit". War of the Rings stays the same (for now). This is to emphasize on the difference inbetween the two systems. I've heard rumours of a "Battle of the five armies" supplement for War of the Ring, but I would not expect this anytime sooner then the 3rd movie. Probably more an educated guess then a rumour.
The one product for the Hobbit in december (as far as I know we really only get one) is a boxed game in the lines of Dark Vengence and Island of Blood. It contains more miniatures then Dark Vengance. No definite info on the contents, but 13 dwarves, a hobbit and a wizard should be a safe bet. No words on the opponents. I'm guessing goblins and wargs, with something big the dwarves can steamroll.
The box is supposed to contain scenery.
The box also comes with a brand new rule book. It's a complete new set of rules, though they are probably based on the current rules. Though I am very excited about this, hold your horses. It's still just rumours.
For the time being, the only way to obtain the book ist the boxed set. No hardcover, allthough I'd expect that to change in the future.
Now the downside is the price is located somewhere around 100€. That would roughly put it in the same category as the current Space Marine battalion (check your regional website for price comparison)
There were hints on a limited edition of the boxed set. Worked pretty well for Dark Vengance.
Enjoy, and take it with salt, as always.
I hear that the current "army books" are staying and will remain valid, presumably so people can still play the large scale combat game, no idea as to compatibility with the forthcoming Hobbit game.
There will be other releases, presumably soon after/regularly once the game has launched.
the eagle eyed amongst you may well have glimpsed the leaked picture of Radagast ( sp ?) the Brown before "requests" were made to remove the pictures --- so, please, don't (re)post them here if you have/find them. Thanks , be interesting to see exactly what ( if anything) this might herald.
More minis than Dark Vengeance and €100,-? Hate to sound like something a lot of people hate around here, but that is a reasonable price actually for the amount of plastic given. I'm actually looking forward to this one with interest now.
Granted it has more mini's that DV, but aren't the LOTR mini's slightly smaller anyway? And if the bulk of the figures are smaller still (Dwarfs, Hobbits, Goblins) there's potentially less plastic* in the box.
* Yes I know the volume of material is largely irrelevant, as the cost comes from the design and tooling, but small plastics will feel less valuable than big plastics.
At what sounds like £90 for a starter box, it's going to be too steep for a casual purchase and a lot of Christmas present lists. I was interested, but at that money I probably won't bother.
If anyone sees details of the Mines of Moria sets being sold off at a clearance rate I'd appreciate a heads up though
Granted it has more mini's that DV, but aren't the LOTR mini's slightly smaller anyway? And if the bulk of the figures are smaller still (Dwarfs, Hobbits, Goblins) there's potentially less plastic* in the box.
* Yes I know the volume of material is largely irrelevant, as the cost comes from the design and tooling, but small plastics will feel less valuable than big plastics.
At what sounds like £90 for a starter box, it's going to be too steep for a casual purchase and a lot of Christmas present lists. I was interested, but at that money I probably won't bother.
If anyone sees details of the Mines of Moria sets being sold off at a clearance rate I'd appreciate a heads up though
The LOTR line was Perry sculpted wasn't it? at the request of PJ or New Line. I hope they are doing the Hobbit range. Got to love tru sacle 28mm!
Mr. Burning wrote: The LOTR line was Perry sculpted wasn't it? at the request of PJ or New Line. I hope they are doing the Hobbit range. Got to love tru sacle 28mm!
Cool However the Perry brothers can produce sculpts far cheaper than GW sells them (have a look at their own line).
I might get it then for the figures, if the price is reasonable (i.e. no more than DV)
but I would not expect this anytime sooner then the 3rd movie
I forgot that they have now split the book into 3 films even.....
How about milking them cow$ huh? Hopefully it will not ruin the story by adding too much random nonsense.
If this starter box is fully playable by itself without it getting boring/repetitive quickly, it isn't a game where you need to add tons of troops & buy massive amounts of additional stuff, or the factions aren't too one-sided in strenght I might even take a look at it... we'll see though if it turns out nice or as the usual blatant overpriced moneygrab GW has been about lately.
I wouldn't get too excited about this set having "more figures" than the 40k stuff. You need to remember how much smaller the figures are and how much less detail you can put onto a model that size. The terrain might be interesting though.
I totally understand removing the Mines set from retailers in the short term - that's just to make space for all the new Hobbit stuff - but seems very odd to retire it forever, I'd have expected it to at least remain as Mail Order, it is after all their entry level box to suck people into the whole LotR gaming system. But maybe they think a Hobbit equivalent will do the same, and they're aiming for a more generic Middle Earth gaming system, just as various 40K players like to play different time periods in the 40K universe...
Is it me, or do Games Workshop leaves these images and such lying around on purpose?
Possibly GW is like Dr Gerald and Mr Hyde, changing opinions on the fanbase and releases, before becoming a monster and replacing images with blanks and quickly reverting mistakes.
Is it me, or do Games Workshop leaves these images and such lying around on purpose?
Possibly GW is like Dr Gerald and Mr Hyde, changing opinions on the fanbase and releases, before becoming a monster and replacing images with blanks and quickly reverting mistakes.
Most likely. No doubt the image would have disappeared by tomorrow as well
Danny76 over at Warseer wrote:I don't normally post what rumours I get or throw them in the anonymous option, but I'll just add here as I do have a soft spot for LotR SBG, and it has now been mentioned from another source.
The new rules are like a new edition of SBG, nothing gets invalidated at all, and they have been very careful to make sure that is so.
I too have heard that the box set is on the way and awesome. What I originally heard about the extra stuff coming outside the box was that they would be released after general release of the film, and only the box would be available before, and the same applied for the hardback rulebook.
Now if this was/and still is the case, I wonder what WD would show in terms of 'releases for the month' as if they are keeping it a secret then they'd have to leave it out..
That was pretty set as a schedule before apparently, but now things are a little different. Unfortunately I don't know whether different means now all at the start with the box, or all pushed back to the following month except the box. If I hear any more I shall mention it..
Take as you wish as always =)
Re the Mines set going bye bye, it would of course seem pretty easy for GW to recut the sprues to create a kit containing only the Fellowship figures - they are the main unique selling point of the Mines set (presuming the new set also contains assorted villains, a few bits of scenery etc etc).
mayfist wrote: Wait, whut ?
What is going to happen to all the existing minies ?
I actualy love the LOTR game, please don't take it away from me....
I would recommend actually reading the OP before commenting.
And they are renaming the game "the hobit", changing the rules and adding new figs. I can read thank you very much. You don't randomly change name, unless there are some huge changes to the game incoming.
I've high hopes fro this.... You could reread my comment as "please don't ruin the game I spent my entire childhood on and just got back on board with".
Clang wrote: Re the Mines set going bye bye, it would of course seem pretty easy for GW to recut the sprues to create a kit containing only the Fellowship figures - they are the main unique selling point of the Mines set (presuming the new set also contains assorted villains, a few bits of scenery etc etc).
Why on earth would GW do that when they can charge you a fortune for the Finecast Fellowship box?
And they are renaming the game "the hobit", changing the rules and adding new figs. I can read thank you very much. You don't randomly change name, unless there are some huge changes to the game incoming.
You do if you're trying to tie it to a trilogy of films being released now as opposed to a trilogy of films released ten years ago. It's first and foremost a branding decision.
deathstreak2000 wrote: I really hope they don't change the game too much, LoTR SBG is probably my favourite system and I'd hate to see it go!
I just hope they fix the fight system. I'm sick and tired of auto-losing just because my opponent can roll 6's and has a point higher fight value!
What's the fething problem with a proper WS bases system? Right now the SBG is far too skewed towards Good, and Evil players are forced to either play Uruk-Hai or else you have to shoehorn as many big characters and gribblies as possible into your warbands.
deathstreak2000 wrote: I really hope they don't change the game too much, LoTR SBG is probably my favourite system and I'd hate to see it go!
I just hope they fix the fight system. I'm sick and tired of auto-losing just because my opponent can roll 6's and has a point higher fight value!
What's the fething problem with a proper WS bases system? Right now the SBG is far too skewed towards Good, and Evil players are forced to either play Uruk-Hai or else you have to shoehorn as many big characters and gribblies as possible into your warbands.
Thats the point of Evil forces like goblins and orcs. You are suppose to tarpit them while your Nazgul and co shred them to pieces. And even then, remeber that a goblin can slay a tower guard thanks to the system, in 1on1 combat.
And yes, the combat system is simple, but I enjoy it for its simplicity.
@Agamemnon2
But by doing so it sounds like there dumping the old models and story, instead of integrating the new range to the old one. I wouldn't be so worried about this if they had renamed The Middle Earth strategy battle game.
You see what I'm trying to say ?
I doubt they will dump them, but its a fear I can't really shake....
deathstreak2000 wrote: I really hope they don't change the game too much, LoTR SBG is probably my favourite system and I'd hate to see it go!
I just hope they fix the fight system. I'm sick and tired of auto-losing just because my opponent can roll 6's and has a point higher fight value!
What's the fething problem with a proper WS bases system? Right now the SBG is far too skewed towards Good, and Evil players are forced to either play Uruk-Hai or else you have to shoehorn as many big characters and gribblies as possible into your warbands.
Thats the point of Evil forces like goblins and orcs. You are suppose to tarpit them while your Nazgul and co shred them to pieces. And even then, remeber that a goblin can slay a tower guard thanks to the system, in 1on1 combat.
And yes, the combat system is simple, but I enjoy it for its simplicity.
@Agamemnon2
But by doing so it sounds like there dumping the old models and story, instead of integrating the new range to the old one. I wouldn't be so worried about this if they had renamed The Middle Earth strategy battle game.
You see what I'm trying to say ?
I doubt they will dump them, but its a fear I can't really shake....
Evil has quite a few infantry models that can easily out-class good models, and warriors like Easterling's for example, which are at the same skill level as most basic Good warriors.
Easterlings are so fun, defence 6 with shield, 3 attacks and a Ringwraith!
It's a great game. 2 gripes about the game: 1) The fight system. If I roll well enough, my crappy Moria goblin can take down Aragorn by himself. 2) Not enough damn players!
Actually a third problem: 3) Models are rather flimsy, my Easterling's spears have snapped many times. Many, many times . . .
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: Easterlings are so fun, defence 6 with shield, 3 attacks and a Ringwraith!
It's a great game. 2 gripes about the game:
1) The fight system. If I roll well enough, my crappy Moria goblin can take down Aragorn by himself.
2) Not enough damn players!
Actually a third problem:
3) Models are rather flimsy, my Easterling's spears have snapped many times. Many, many times . . .
Just for the record:
While we shall not post the pics of the Radagast miniature (that can still be easily found via google), a description might be helpful:
It is a plastic sprue, depicts the character from the movie in a running pose, back leg on a tree branch. Could be a blister, I wouldn't rule out a "limited edition goodie" treatment either.
BTW "Radagast the Brown" is one of the 5 wizards (Istari), like Saruman and Gandalf (plus 2 unnamed ones that went East). He is supposed to be "lost" dealing with animals and plants, so doesn't take part in the greater schemes.
BTW "Radagast the Brown" is one of the 5 wizards (Istari), like Saruman and Gandalf (plus 2 unnamed ones that went East). He is supposed to be "lost" dealing with animals and plants, so doesn't take part in the greater schemes.
According to the articles in Empire magazine Radagast does play a significant part. He along with the rest of the council - Gandalf, Saruman, Elrond and Galadriel have a fight scene where they aren't fighting each other. If you've read the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings you will know that Gandalf leaves the Dwarves when they go into Mirkwood and later it is revealed that Gandalf and the council drove the Necromancer (Sauron) form Dol Goldur which was in Mirkwood. There are various books of the movie available in British shops with lots fo photos, whilst there aren't many of the goblins, orcs and Wargs there are a significant number of photos of Radagast as played by Sylvester McCoy.
I also heard Khamul (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Kham%C3%BBl) would be in the Movie, which would fit in with the Dol Gulder theme being that he was it's Saurons main lieutenant during his stay there. I wonder if they will give him and the other Dol Gulder themed models an update?
Darnok wrote:I've been told the starter box will be named "Escape from Goblin Town".
Coupled with Hobbit logo patterned with eight folded stars spotted earlier, it could be a lot of skulls in this box, eh... GW + Skulls+ Chaos+ Goblins+ Halfling Cooks+ GW Christmass Skulls...a real mess
But by doing so it sounds like there dumping the old models and story, instead of integrating the new range to the old one. I wouldn't be so worried about this if they had renamed The Middle Earth strategy battle game.
You see what I'm trying to say ?
I doubt they will dump them, but its a fear I can't really shake....
Speaking to my local manager, he was told that along with the instruction to take MoM off of shelves, all the source books were to stay as they've still relevant and will work with the new stuff that's coming.
Now, we just have to hold out for Silmarillion: Strategy Battle Game where we have as many Balrogs as you can want and Elven Lords that are badass enough to go toe-to-toe with them!
Hmm, looking forward to a return to Middle Earth, havn't had any games in a while due to lack of players in my area. I have always held the LotRSBG rules as the best set to come out of GW that I've played with. The only thing that would be nice would be to add some kind of RPG ability to it, like Warband but a bit more character driven. Excited for new models too.
Well after looking at the Radagast miniature (after much failed google-fu) I decided that I didn't like it. However, I don't like the pictures of the actor himself, he just doesn't scream wizard to me as much as Sauron or Gandalf. Still interested in more lotr stuff though, just need to get the piles of models I already have done first though!
BramGaunt wrote:I can also confirm the title of the Box, as exactly what Darnok posted earlier in this thread. That gives us a good shot at guessing the contents of the box.
Commander Cain wrote: Well after looking at the Radagast miniature (after much failed google-fu) I decided that I didn't like it. However, I don't like the pictures of the actor himself, he just doesn't scream wizard to me as much as Sauron or Gandalf. Still interested in more lotr stuff though, just need to get the piles of models I already have done first though!
In fairness, that's part of the point of the nature-obsessed Radagast...
Plus, it is Doctor Who pretending to be a wizard (in the film)
xxRavenxx wrote:The GW "core range" of products no longer includes LOTR.
This normally means that largescale rebranding, reboxing, finecasting, re-releasing with new models or discontinuing is about to happen.
BramGaunt wrote:The Lord of the Rings game is renamed in Tho Hobbit game.
'This a self contained miniatures battle game based on the Battle of the Five Armies in J.R.R Tolkien's book "The Hobbit". It uses 10mm miniature figure blocks for each of the forces present. The game system is based on Warmaster also by Games Workshop.'
The bases I put down are 25mm. Still they could have been used for heroes but the base still seems large for 10mm block infantry system
'This a self contained miniatures battle game based on the Battle of the Five Armies in J.R.R Tolkien's book "The Hobbit". It uses 10mm miniature figure blocks for each of the forces present. The game system is based on Warmaster also by Games Workshop.'
The bases I put down are 25mm. Still they could have been used for heroes but the base still seems large for 10mm block infantry system
there were a few 'big' things released; smaug, amongst others. those used bigger bases AFAIK.
also shows 25mm bases used for... something...? Not sure, I'm still beating myself up over not buying that game for a reasonable price (RRP was quite good, actually!) when I had the chance.
the trailer isnt really exciting...but it definitely points to the Escape From Goblintown, and it proves that the name will change to The Hobbit, Strategy Battle Game
I really hate the teaser emails and videos, by now I've come to expect that whenever I get an email from GW which is allegedly about an upcoming product that it won't actually include even the most basic information about said product.
GrashnarTheSecond over at The Last Alliance wrote:A FLGS just called me to let me know they got their Hobbit release list in.
(...)
Full release list:
Escape from Goblin Town Limited Edition: 100€ (56 figures!)
Hobbit Rulebook: 65€ (288 pages)
Hobbit Paint Set: 35€
Custom Figure Case: 50€
The White Council: 60€ (4 fig box)
The Trolls: 65€ (3 figure box)
Goblins of the Misty Mountains: 30€ (18 figure box)
Goblin Town: 45€ (scenery set?)
Hunter Orcs: 30€ (12 fig box)
Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs: 35€ (6 fig box)
Bolg: 20€ (clampack)
Narzug: 15€ (clampack)
Goblin Captain: 13€ (clampack)
Fimbul the Hunter (ft & mtd): 35€
Everything is plastic except the clampacks and the White Council. Yes, the Trolls are plastic.
(...)
Now, I have reasons to believe that Radagast is the limited model, simply because he isn't on the release list (and the White Council box is Finecast). Either that, or he is a Direct Exclusive, which would seem strange for a plastic model.
Those prices can't be real, I have to pay $100 for three trolls? It could be scenery though, don't want to give the plot away but maybe it is actually a big diorama with some very static trolls?
...last time around the LoTR game was actually great value per model compared with the main systems; that was actually how they managed to sell it to a broader public.
...Wouldn't surprise me if they actually were sufficiently boneheaded to price this system out of the market straight away, though.
You'll notice they are not just calling it "The Hobbit", they are calling it "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game". That is the full title of just the first movie of the trilogy, which means you are likely getting a different game set each year for three years following the story elements of each third of the full film trilogy story. This is exactly what they did originally with the Lord Of The Rings games, there was a separate one themed to each of the three films each year for three years with each film's full title, then after the films were done they revised it once again to simply "The Lord Of The Rings" game.
That teaser trailer was the equivalent of watching somebody watching paint dry! The sad fact is that he/she that made this trailer is probably on £20,000 a year, and there are starving kids in Africa....
As for those moaning about the prices, you poor fools, these minis aren't for you. These minis are for people who have never involved themselves in our hobby and who will no doubt impulse buy after seeing the films.
$100 for three trolls will be a bargain to these ignorant souls and GW will be laughing all the way to the bank. Trust me
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: As for those moaning about the prices, you poor fools, these minis aren't for you. These minis are for people who have never involved themselves in our hobby and who will no doubt impulse buy after seeing the films.
$100 for three trolls will be a bargain to these ignorant souls and GW will be laughing all the way to the bank. Trust me
Well said. Even warmaster scaled OOP BoFA trolls (3 each clampack) on ebay are cheaper than this while still being a true bargain for a hobbyist.
Normally, they would be leaked by now, but New Line have threatened to pull the plug on GW and/or lawsuits if the leaks weren't plugged. There was a thread on this a few months ago. But the timing for the minis is strange given that you would want people buying it for Christmas. A November release would have made sense.
Except that you can get 3 GW River trolls for $47. Either they must be huge, finecast, or have a double dose of GW pricing. Knowing PJ and GW, all are solid options.
Dawnbringer wrote: Except that you can get 3 GW River trolls for $47. Either they must be huge, finecast, or have a double dose of GW pricing. Knowing PJ and GW, all are solid options.
Hm, huge lumps of finecast in all the sculpting glory of the Mutilators. That sounds about right for $90.
In other LOTR news, the Tolkien family is suing Time Warner over the fact they licensed LOTR themed slot machines. (Which was supposedly outside the agreed upon terms, as well as 'devaluing' the brand.)
BaronIveagh wrote: In other LOTR news, the Tolkien family is suing Time Warner over the fact they licensed LOTR themed slot machines. (Which was supposedly outside the agreed upon terms, as well as 'devaluing' the brand.)
The Tolkien family are always suing film companies. It must get quite exhausting.
The only way I'm buying those trolls is if they also have 3+ sprues of terrain in the box. Well, the same goes for everything else, really. I figured I might get into the game this time round (I skipped LotR entirely) but at these prices... lol no.
Dr. What wrote: I keep reading complaints about the 3 Trolls box.
Ever thought that they'd be some form of Special Character set? Especially considering their piece in the film.
I expect our normal troll kits will still be there.
Perhaps the trolls are massive so cost more.... perhaps GW scaled up everything in the hobbit strategy battle game since the hobbit and the dwarves are so small. Gandalf is 40mm high in the hobbit game.
I'm hoping there was a bit of sarcasm in there given the terrible perspective of that shot for telling comparative heights. Then there is also the issue you'd have trying to do things to scale with lego, given everybody has the same size torso and head.
That model is listed by Lego as the Goblin King therefore most probably not even a troll. If they stick by the imagery from the Fellowship movie, we already know how big The Hobbit's Trolls are. The set might include Dwarves in sacks!
VenomBlood wrote: ^Scale in Lego is a bit abstract - green dragon is an example
As far as I know it, from what I can conclude from the scale pic, trolls are massive - should be 70 mm in 28 mm scale.
Price spoils all the fun.
BTWlol they changed legs size for dwarves and bilbo.
I'd say more like 60mm (twice the height of a man) which isn't really any bigger than the current cave troll, and while it is taller than the River Trolls, they are more squat looking, it looks perfectly doable to fit a taller torso into the same amount of sprue space. That's said, if they made the Great Goblin the size of a troll in the movie, I just hate PJ more.
Well, at least this trailer showed us something cool. Would be nice if they'd show some dang figures, but damn if that wasn't a pretty set. I'm going to pretend the starter set comes with some pretty pretty piers to use as scenery and fantasize on playing on that thing. Really looking forward to the 24th; I just hope it doesn't turn into another Chaos release.
I can confirm that the release and price lists are legit. No other main release in December except Hobbit.
New colour for the Hobbit tabletop boxes is gold brown, more precisely a colour gradient running from gold yellow to brown.
Radagast is indeed the limited miniature from the starter box. Starter contains indeed Gandalf, Bilbo, the dwarfs and a whole bunch of Goblins including an Ogre sized Goblin King. Goblins look different from the curent ones. Wearing loincloths, a bit bigger, a bit more deformed (Chaos star wasn't totally false ). Goblin King looks great, wears crown and loincloth, comes with a throne.
I assume that the non-limited starter will have a "soft release date" a few days after the limited edition is sold out (usually a week later).
Trolls are large and look similar to Ogres. Hunter Orcs mounted and unmounted have more cloths and armour, I like the look more than current Orcs. Goblin Town scenery basically is a set of wharf like wooden plank roads on different storeys, connected with poles and ladders (as seen in the second trailer).
So much from a first hasty glimps at the WD December.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Normally, they would be leaked by now, but New Line have threatened to pull the plug on GW and/or lawsuits if the leaks weren't plugged.
What's that got to do with anything? What Newline and GW agree to has no bearing on what Mr. Jonny Advance Copy does with his iPhone camera.
well another Lotr variant I can't use my hobbit army in... that game's dead to me...
if it does go that way... GW has no more games I play (apart from specialist ones some they won't let you play in store)
those goblins look like ghouls... as does that goblin-king thing
too bad you can't use Lotr in warhammer... I would have done a whole army of them, oh well
Rainbow Dash wrote: those goblins look like ghouls... as does that goblin-king thing
too bad you can't use Lotr in warhammer... I would have done a whole army of them, oh well
Who says? The GW police won't come round your house, FLGS or gaming club if they see your army. The only thing that they cannot allow is to have pictures of your army published in official GW publications, that is all.
+ Ian McKellan is spot on, Christopher Lee not bad. Also Agent Smith, great job by the sculptors
+ Goblins look suitably yucky
+ All looks very characterful, like the dwarfs in particular.
- Why are we seeing these in iPhone pics taken by an adventurous Pole, with their features of the models distorted by the curved pages? These should be in full, high-res glory-vision on the website, with links spammed throughout the blogsphere, miniature web pages, even links through New Line and videogame tie-ins. Yes, I realise pigs might fly, better of course to restrict this so as few people as possible can see them. - Orcs look like something taken from Max Max, doing some kind of work-out to Village people and then bred with Mike Tindall. although I realise that might be a stylistic thing from the film.
- The prices, especially for those trolls. Why? Because they can.
Plastic dwarves look great as do Gandalf and the Goblin King. I might actually buy the box for Christmas.
Warg riders look worse than the ones we have now. another case of rider being paralysed from the he waist down, like with those horrid Seeker Marauders.
Bog standard goblins should be fine once the receive a proper paint job.
Hunters are okay I guess. Don't like the poses.
The council looks genuinely good.
Trolls are ugly. Maybe it's the ridiculous light effects but they seem to have no definition whatsoever.
Rainbow Dash wrote: those goblins look like ghouls... as does that goblin-king thing
too bad you can't use Lotr in warhammer... I would have done a whole army of them, oh well
Who says? The GW police won't come round your house, FLGS or gaming club if they see your army. The only thing that they cannot allow is to have pictures of your army published in official GW publications, that is all.
closest store that has warhammer players is a GW, I don't have a table or anything at my house
This morning I checked NR threads...oh dear.. just to find dat.. Those orcs and goblins are way too sexy. As I expected Peter Jackson to add sexy stuff (I suppose nostalgia towards his earlier career), but GOOD GOD I expected reworked Galadriel NOT greenskins.
I love all these, while I passed LoTR for a mere 10 years but this stuff fits me well. Even trolls are superb.
seriously cmon it's a real deal (except for price) for warhammer - trolls as trolls/slave giants, goblins as gouls, orcs as slaaneshi marauders, Radagast as Taal priest.
The terrain surprises me, I was expecting walls and buildings (i.e. representing a goblin town) rather than ladders and walkways. Sort of looks like a LotR/Hobbit version of Necromunda.
Can ladder and walkway designs be copyrighted as part of the LotR universe? If not, we just might see them also released as non-game-specific scenery?
The rest look like the same sort of poses and quality as the nasty vinyl minis from the star wars minis game. Well that's four releases in a row that have been a let down from GW. Their standard of sculpts seems to have dropped drastically, where have all the good sculptors gone? Or is it just they are making to many design compromises for the sake of reducing cost? Either way this is not a good thing.
This is only my opinion and I'm sure others will vary.
These are flat-out the worst miniatures that GW has ever produced.
Seriously. They look like bad action figures.
The arms are out of proportion (upper arm larger than lower arm), and look like they've been sculpted by squidging green stuff around a piece of wire and bending it in half.
There isn't even a slight hint of correct musculature or anatomy on the models, the legs are even worse than the minotaur legs.
Looks like they have rotatable action-figure style wrists as well.
You have to remember that the trolls were sculpted to look like the ones in the movie, now I have refrained from watching trailers (too many spoilers!) but I am guessing they share quite a good resemblance? Especially if the Perry's are sculpting them!
These are flat-out the worst miniatures that GW has ever produced.
Seriously. They look like bad action figures.
The arms are out of proportion (upper arm larger than lower arm), and look like they've been sculpted by squidging green stuff around a piece of wire and bending it in half.
There isn't even a slight hint of correct musculature or anatomy on the models, the legs are even worse than the minotaur legs.
Looks like they have rotatable action-figure style wrists as well.
They're sculpted to look identical to the forthcoming Hobbit film. I wouldn't go out so far as to say that it's entirely GW's fault, although we're yet to see Tom, Bert and Bill on the silver screen for anything more than two seconds (TV spot-trailers) ... Still; I'm not a fan of these.
Presumably the Goblin Town Scenery Set (if the release list floating about is correct)
Escape from Goblin Town Limited Edition: 100€ (56 figures!) Hobbit Rulebook: 65€ (288 pages)
Hobbit Paint Set: 35€
Custom Figure Case: 50€
The White Council: 60€ (4 fig box)
The Trolls: 65€ (3 figure box)
Goblins of the Misty Mountains: 30€ (18 figure box)
Goblin Town: 45€ (scenery set?)
Hunter Orcs: 30€ (12 fig box)
Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs: 35€ (6 fig box)
Bolg: 20€ (clampack)
Narzug: 15€ (clampack)
Goblin Captain: 13€ (clampack)
Fimbul the Hunter (ft & mtd): 35€
8th from the top
So I'm assuming they are releasing a boxed game of this? Anyone know what the 56 mins are and if the whole box set is limited or if it's following the Dark Vengence idea of first release being ltd with an extra model or two.
Looks like they have rotatable action-figure style wrists as well.
The cut in the wrist is because the choice of weapon. Note in the individual image of the troll in question he is holding a log instead the spear he is holding in the group image.
Also does anyone know if GW and DE AGOSTINI PUBLISHING are doing another Battle Game in Middle Earth series for the Hobbit? I acquired some of the old LOTR one's recently and cost wise they worked out a very good way of acquiring cheep models.
What's that got to do with anything? What Newline and GW agree to has no bearing on what Mr. Jonny Advance Copy does with his iPhone camera.
Meaning the chance of a leak may be reduced. I may be wrong, but if memory serves, I'm sure it was you that mentioned this in the first place i.e new line clamping down on GW. Apologies if you're not that person.
I'm probably in a minority of one, but I like the models.
If you've got a problem with that, PM me and we'll arrange an arm wrestle to sort it out
I'm not a huge fan of the GWLoTR tabletop games, but I'm glad we got to see some previews at least. Trolls look ok to me, what bugs me is the Goblin King. I kind of really hate what they did with him in the movie. Guess I'm still really used to the old goblin king from the Rankin Bass animated movie....
I don't mind the goblins though I was expecting something more like the moria goblins, though less armoured
these look like ghouls crossed with plague monks
I'm a fan of moat of the new.models. The faces arent melted.wrecks like a lot of the old LotR sculpts. The trolls arent.bad.except.for a.few.spots that are so.bad i wonder.if it's just a bad photo.
Lansirill wrote: I'm a fan of moat of the new.models. The faces arent melted.wrecks like a lot of the old LotR sculpts. The trolls arent.bad.except.for a.few.spots that are so.bad i wonder.if it's just a bad photo.
What's with all the full stops? I read that post like William Shatner...
The trolls look ok, but if they want the equivalent of $100 from me for those three then they can go figure.
I actually really like the hunter orcs, both foot and mounted, although did anyone else think of skyrim elves as soon as they saw those pictures? What's with the pointed ears?
Most of the sculpts are nice, I Hate the Elrond one though, and saruman looks really stupid.
Lansirill wrote: I'm a fan of moat of the new.models. The faces arent melted.wrecks like a lot of the old LotR sculpts. The trolls arent.bad.except.for a.few.spots that are so.bad i wonder.if it's just a bad photo.
What's with all the full stops? I read that post like William Shatner...
I'm on my phone and I have a seem to like to smack the period key insyead of the space bar. Really need to find a.custom keyboard app or somesuch.
As a collector of Moria, I'm disappointed. This is mainly due to the fact I was hoping to expand my force on the cheap and those Goblins won't work with what I've got.
Maybe it's just the fact that those Goblins aren't green. In my opinion goblins should always be green, Trolls are blue and Uruk Hai are redish-brown.
scarletsquig wrote: [
(Trolls)
These are flat-out the worst miniatures that GW has ever produced.
Seriously. They look like bad action figures.
The arms are out of proportion (upper arm larger than lower arm), and look like they've been sculpted by squidging green stuff around a piece of wire and bending it in half.
There isn't even a slight hint of correct musculature or anatomy on the models, the legs are even worse than the minotaur legs.
Looks like they have rotatable action-figure style wrists as well.
Withholding judgement until I see what the film ones look like. If the minis are accurate to the film, then blame WETA, not GW.
Rainbow Dash wrote: those goblins probably won't be cheap at all, which is another reason I won't buy them
Not all that bad really, Imagine if your kid would want their Hobbit goddies from Lego, instead of GW. Than you'd be well and truly screwed
Games Workshop's Escape from Goblin Town starter set. Will presumably sell for GBP 80,- in the limited edition version. Contains 56 miniatures
Lego's Battle of the Goblin King set. Sells for GBP 79,99 SRP in the regular version. Contains 7 miniatures (and 10... yes 10!!! weapons).
Agreed, I can't see a single model I like. But, as Scipio said...
scipio.au wrote:
scarletsquig wrote: [
(Trolls)
These are flat-out the worst miniatures that GW has ever produced.
Seriously. They look like bad action figures.
The arms are out of proportion (upper arm larger than lower arm), and look like they've been sculpted by squidging green stuff around a piece of wire and bending it in half.
There isn't even a slight hint of correct musculature or anatomy on the models, the legs are even worse than the minotaur legs.
Looks like they have rotatable action-figure style wrists as well.
Withholding judgement until I see what the film ones look like. If the minis are accurate to the film, then blame WETA, not GW.
A few tidbits:
1.) The starter box includes wooden walkways and the throne as terrain.
2.) The fellowship plastic models from the previous starter box are rereleased in a separate box.
3.) The Ork hero is indeed Narzug.
4.) The Goblin captain looks similar to the other goblins. Could be the one in the middle, pointing (not sure):
5.) Here a pic of the unmounted Fimbul the Hunter:
6.) Here a scan showing the new box design, taken from here http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.de/ :
I like the white council, some of the character figures are good. I really don't like much else on offer. The trolls especially, even the camp fire thing looks a bit cheap and nasty looking as the sculpt on the flames.
I'm a bit co cerned that it's not so much that GW has made horrible figures, but that I'll hate the aesthetic of the film...
Also I refuse to touch Finecast so will only be getting the council if someone does some metal casts.
Not sure about any of these but I will reserve any snap judgements until I see the film. It looks to me like WETA have designed most of the trolls goblins and such so that they are distinct from those in the LOTR trilogy which makes sense for clearly identifying their IP. From the few photos I've seen in the early release books that goblins do look like that in the movies. They look 'deformed' which is broadly in keeping with the descriptions in the book. Last time round GW were quite accurate with their sculpts and I assume that each of these had to be signed off by WETA for approval.
Is it me or do those wargs have very similar poses to the Fenrisian Wolves? I wonder which came first because from those pics I prefer the fenrisians but then it seems WD has given up on quality paint jobs.
Omg what a bunch of fugly gack... and for those prices too
I am now suddenly quite worried about the movies if the trolls and goblins really look like that. Not to mention that the official trailer already seems to show us the exact fate of this goblin king (unless he has a twin brother):
Spoiler:
you see the severed torso of a fat blob of a creature fall on the dwarves who are trapped under some plank-rubble, and the dwarves go "you've got to be kidding me!". By the looks of it that is the goblin king.
TBD wrote: Not to mention that the official trailer already seems to show us the exact fate of this goblin king (unless he has a twin brother):
Spoiler:
you see the severed torso of a fat blob of a creature fall on the dwarves who are trapped under some plank-rubble, and the dwarves go "you've got to be kidding me!". By the looks of it that is the goblin king.
What's the problem? We know the Goblin King dies, Gandalf slays him in the book. Hell, I could spoil the ending for you if you want.
TBD wrote: Not to mention that the official trailer already seems to show us the exact fate of this goblin king (unless he has a twin brother):
Spoiler:
you see the severed torso of a fat blob of a creature fall on the dwarves who are trapped under some plank-rubble, and the dwarves go "you've got to be kidding me!". By the looks of it that is the goblin king.
What's the problem? We know the Goblin King dies, Gandalf slays him in the book. Hell, I could spoil the ending for you if you want.
Yes I know that, but why show something like that in the trailer
Now everybody who saw the trailer (including the masses who never even read the book) knows exactly how he ends up as soon as his ugly face is first introduced.
I think the goblins are very reminiscent of the alien bad guys from PJs first movie, Bad Taste.
I'm actually more interested in the Hobbit since seeing this stuff.
Spoiler:
Curious why we haven't seen the spiders yet.
I also thought the encounter and capture by the elves could be a good break point for the end of the movie.
Getting the impression it will end with the 3 trolls and Gandalf rescuing them.
I echo the 'Meh'. Not overly impressed with any of them, but the Dwarves and Gandalf are okay I suppose. I don't think that paintjob is helping very much at all here.
I may be losing my touch with the whole LotR fanboy thing, but weren't Middle Earth orcs and goblins - being corrupted elves originally - supposed to have black skin? The orcs in the LotR films were fairly dark (most of them), but what's with these almost albino versions?
My guess: I don't think we'll see the spiders until next year. I'm going with that the break in the film will be the party getting to Beorn's house. Then, them telling the story to Beorn can be the prologue to the second film, Gandalf tells them to "Stay on the path!", then bugger off to Dol Guldur, and then it'll be Further Adventures of Gandalf while the dwarves sit around in Thranduil's dungeons. (I don't think we're even going to get a whiff of Smaug until the third film! :( )
skrulnik wrote: I think the goblins are very reminiscent of the alien bad guys from PJs first movie, Bad Taste.
I'm actually more interested in the Hobbit since seeing this stuff.
Spoiler:
Curious why we haven't seen the spiders yet.
I also thought the encounter and capture by the elves could be a good break point for the end of the movie.
Getting the impression it will end with the 3 trolls and Gandalf rescuing them.
'bout those spiders: there will probably be a second wave of Hobbit mini's soming out early/half 2013....
Rainbow Dash wrote: those goblins probably won't be cheap at all, which is another reason I won't buy them
Not all that bad really, Imagine if your kid would want their Hobbit goddies from Lego, instead of GW. Than you'd be well and truly screwed
Games Workshop's Escape from Goblin Town starter set. Will presumably sell for GBP 80,- in the limited edition version. Contains 56 miniatures
Lego's Battle of the Goblin King set. Sells for GBP 79,99 SRP in the regular version. Contains 7 miniatures (and 10... yes 10!!! weapons).
It is highly relevant, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly in the other thread. They are not identical (which would make a comparison pointless), but they do share similarities that make it worthwhile to look at.
At any rate, it's better than your arguments that you just draw out of thin air without any basis or grounding beyond your personal opinion.
If you show me a product even better suited for comparisons, I'd be more than happy to switch to that.
This is making me really depressed. Those Goblins are godawful ugly...... I don't mind the trolls, but I'm not exactly taken by them, and the Dwarves by and large don't look very dwarfish. This coupled with the increase in prices for the plastic boxes means I'm pretty much done collecting LotR I guess, unless of course I can Ebay.
If you show me a product even better suited for comparisons, I'd be more than happy to switch to that.
Ok how about this one: GW compared to practically every other game maker and miniature producer in the entire wargaming industry.
Don't get me wrong, buying GW is nothing like as expensive as some other hobbies, as is regularly pointed out in discussions such as these.
However regarding GW in particular the company is following a trend which isn't necessarily going to go down well with those who care about it:
It costs more to play, you need more of it, it's the same old stuff trotted out release after release, and arguably the quality, if anything, is getting worse both in terms of production quality (Finecast) and the actual quality of the sculpts themselves are becoming less sophisticated to the point where in some instances they are pretty much toy-like.
Now funnily enough I actually like a lot of these new minis. So, I think GW has hit the mark when it comes to the 'design' aspect of things, especially with some of the human sculpts. However regarding those other issues listed above; the price, the production quality, and even the games system (this is going to be essentially exactly the same game any followers of LoTR have been playing for a decade or more) are all areas where the release is going to fall short.
If you show me a product even better suited for comparisons, I'd be more than happy to switch to that.
Ok how about this one: GW compared to practically every other game maker and miniature producer in the entire wargaming industry.
I don't know any game maker in the "entire wargaming industry" that produces plastic sets like these on a licensed IP, much less the exact same Hobbit IP.
What advantages does a comparison to .. say Privateer Press have over a comparison to Lego?
Unlike PP, both Lego and GW run a retail chain.
Unilke PP, both Lego and GW sell a licensed Hobbit product.
Unlike PP, both Lego and GW sell mainly plastic products.
Unlike PP, both Lego and GW are originally European firms.
Unlike PP, the two products compared here are priced identically
Unlike but one or two PP products, the two products compared here are released in the identical time pre-Christmas 2012
Etc.. .
The target demographic is virtually identical for all three. Young, usually male, usually white, usually reasonably educated, fantasy-loving kids/teens + a smattering of collectors.
I can't think of any criteria that would make PP (or Corvus Belli or whatever) a significantly better comparison than the GW-Lego one.
I was gonna be out of this all together because of the supposed prices but there us no way I am missing out on the hunter orcs, I'll pick up a box of the foot, a box of the wargs and all the heroes for them...........when i have the money
That Gandalf sculpt for the council set is simply fantastic, easily the best one they have done, will get that on it's own at some point.
Not a big fan of everything else, the goblins are disappointing because I can't add them to my moria force but I can see the appeal to others. I do think the trolls will be better in person.
Radagast looks much better painted, and from that angle than he did in the bare plastic pic that was floating around. I like the White Council also but wow, 4 Failcast figures for $75.00, I think I'll have to pass. None of the GWLOTR games ever picked up any steam in my area during the last film releases, and at these prices I see that trend continuing.
I don't mind the goblins being ugly, they're meant to be ugly, but the prices are even uglier. £20/$35 for 18 goblins! Even by GW standards, that's more than a quid per goblin, and bear in mind these minis are small than the usual warhammer equivalents.
Like I said earlier, these are designed to entice impulse buyers who've seen the film.
I was surprised that they don't look at all like Moria goblins, but I suppose they'll be pale if they dwell mostly in caves. Just like Gollum, who is, in the books, supposed to be black. And yay if the Fellowship plastics are released separately: I've always wanted my own Fellowship of the Ring figures but no one sells the metal ones anymore and I don't like gambling on Finecast.
The Hobbit will have the same fate as Lotr. After a few years when the movies will be forgotten, nobody will play the game anymore. This effect will be priced into the system.
Consider the Starter set for 100€ plus rule book for 65€ with the new 40k set.
Pacific wrote: - Why are we seeing these in iPhone pics taken by an adventurous Pole, with their features of the models distorted by the curved pages? These should be in full, high-res glory-vision on the website, with links spammed throughout the blogsphere, miniature web pages, even links through New Line and videogame tie-ins. Yes, I realise pigs might fly, better of course to restrict this so as few people as possible can see them.
Because previews = less sales.
Duh!
VenomBlood wrote: I have to admit experienced GW haters are able to hate stuff designed by third party as desperately as they do it regards to original GW.
In theory, none of current haters is mentioned in particular.
Yes. 'Cause disliking a specific model makes you a 'GW hater'.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes. 'Cause disliking a specific model makes you a 'GW hater'.
Honest to feth...
Meh. If they want to make me out to be a monster then fine, I'll be a monster. These people are so dead set on building themselves strawman enemies to fight it seems almost rude not to indulge them.
I gotto say, I think the Dwarves are really cool. As is the White Council. Shame there just aren't more on the White Council, like Elrond's sons. But then again if they were there then you'd have to explain why they weren't there during the LotR films. I also think the Goblins look pretty cool as well.
I like the dwarves, they all look very individual (and probably decent likenesses of the actors). The scale interests me. Is it just me or does Gandalf seem taller than his old LOTR versions? And some of the dwarves, too, again compared to, say, Gimli or the other LOTR dwarf range.
Every new release GW makes seems to jade me further. This whole set looks mundane and ugly. It's just a cynical cash-in on a film that's been stretched cynically to cash in on all the kids who'll go and watch the funny dwarfs fall over.
It's also about £30 worth of stuff for, definitely, over double cost. Pass
Davylove21 wrote: Every new release GW makes seems to jade me further. This whole set looks mundane and ugly. It's just a cynical cash-in on a film that's been stretched cynically to cash in on all the kids who'll go and watch the funny dwarfs fall over.
Quick to judge a movie we've not seen, aren't you?
Agamemnon2 wrote: I like the dwarves, they all look very individual (and probably decent likenesses of the actors). The scale interests me. Is it just me or does Gandalf seem taller than his old LOTR versions? And some of the dwarves, too, again compared to, say, Gimli or the other LOTR dwarf range.
heartserenade wrote: I was surprised that they don't look at all like Moria goblins, but I suppose they'll be pale if they dwell mostly in caves. Just like Gollum, who is, in the books, supposed to be black. And yay if the Fellowship plastics are released separately: I've always wanted my own Fellowship of the Ring figures but no one sells the metal ones anymore and I don't like gambling on Finecast.
Are the dwarves in plastic too?
The fellowship in plastic is something I'll buy, if the price isn't as painful as the rest of the releases!
wuestenfux wrote: The Hobbit will have the same fate as Lotr. After a few years when the movies will be forgotten, nobody will play the game anymore. This effect will be priced into the system.
Consider the Starter set for 100€ plus rule book for 65€ with the new 40k set.
I'd say that it's even worse - the LOTR trilogy is a true masterpiece of art as it made the fantasy genre what it is nowadays. No other work of fiction influenced the genre more than it did. The Hobbit, however, has always stood in the shadow of the three books - and rightfully so, if you ask me, as I consider The Hobbit far, far inferior to the actual trilogy. Furthermore, it really saddens me that The Hobbit is now even split in 3 parts seeing that 2/3 of the book are boring as hell.
Anyway. The Hobbit will be a sales-spike for GW because "It's Lord of the Rings!", not because "It's The Hobbit!". And maybe, soon afterwards, LOTR will finally die. LOTR, imo, is a very good system and most miniatures look awesome (NOT YOU, PLASTIC TREANTS! GO ROT IN SHAME!) but The Hobbit will not elaborate on the big battles part..which is, imo the interesting part. Having epic battles in the LOTR universe.
Sigvatr wrote: I'd say that it's even worse - the LOTR trilogy is a true masterpiece of art as it made the fantasy genre what it is nowadays. No other work of fiction influenced the genre more than it did. The Hobbit, however, has always stood in the shadow of the three books - and rightfully so, if you ask me, as I consider The Hobbit far, far inferior to the actual trilogy. Furthermore, it really saddens me that The Hobbit is now even split in 3 parts seeing that 2/3 of the book are boring as hell.
You are aware that the Hobbit was Tolkien's first book and started it all, right? No Hobbit, no LOTR.
You are aware that the Hobbit was Tolkien's first book and started it all, right? No Hobbit, no LOTR.
I am well aware of it and never denied it. My point is that most people do not care for The Hobbit, but for LOTR - and it wasn't The Hobbit that influenced the entire genre, it was the LOTR trilogy.
/e: Jesus, I hate cutting quotes on dakka ever since the last update :/
You are aware that the Hobbit was Tolkien's first book and started it all, right? No Hobbit, no LOTR.
I am well aware of it and never denied it. My point is that most people do not care for The Hobbit, but for LOTR - and it wasn't The Hobbit that influenced the entire genre, it was the LOTR trilogy.
/e: Jesus, I hate cutting quotes on dakka ever since the last update :/
Most people do not care for The Hobbit? Who are these most people? (And by most people I assume you mean Tolkien fans, not just people in general, because in that case most people do not care for anything)
I love the entire world Tolkien created. I enjoyed reading the Silmarilion, and I'm starting to work through some of the other books Christopher has put together from his father's notes. Would I love to see some of that stuff made as movies instead of stretching The Hobbit out into 3? Sure. But, hey, I'm happy to just read the darn books instead.
I'm thrilled to have more of this stuff made into plastic, and I hope the game does reasonably well. Heck, I never really got to play the LotR or WotR games despite collecting a bunch of the miniatures, but the rules looked pretty good. Hopefully I can try them out a bit this time around. I'd love to see the game survive past the movies, but I'm not holding my breath. If nothing else I can play with awesome dioramas of Bilbo pissing the living hell out of Gollum.
Lansirill wrote: Would I love to see some of that stuff made as movies instead of stretching The Hobbit out into 3? Sure. But, hey, I'm happy to just read the darn books instead.
Not for some time. Christopher Tolkien and/or the family owns pretty much everything written by J.R.R.Tolkien exceptLoTR and the Hobbit. And last I heard (been a few years), they don't want it commercialized. They would've stopped the LoTR/the Hobbit movies if they could. They are just right now going to court against New Line for another 80 Millions for "debasing" Tolkien's work with silly computer games, etc.. .
Agamemnon2 wrote: I like the dwarves, they all look very individual (and probably decent likenesses of the actors). The scale interests me. Is it just me or does Gandalf seem taller than his old LOTR versions? And some of the dwarves, too, again compared to, say, Gimli or the other LOTR dwarf range.
Depends on the dwarf in question it seems.
Isn't Thorien Oakenshield(spelling?) meant to be tall for a dwarf. So the other dwarf miniatures shouldn't be the same height.
Looks pretty neat, it was actually buying the Mines of Moria starter set that got me into miniature wargaming, before I moved onto 40k. But holy gak, these kits are expensive. I mean, as an Australian, I am used to paying through the nose for GW's kits, but omg is this expensive. I had to double check to make sure I wasn't accidentally on the New Zealand currency website by accident. $140 for 3 plastic trolls? Get out of here, GW! Thunderwolf Cavalry has the same three 60mm base sized models, but with far more bits and comes at $91. I dont know how GW expects anyone to want to start paying for this. Entry cost just seems way too high to both wanting to get into.
I really feel sorry for the bright eyed innocent prospective hobbyist who wants to reenact the movies on his dining room table who will fall victim to this blatant price gouging.
I've made my peace with GW's pricing, I accept it even if I don't like it and I take measures to pay as little as I can.
I'm slightly concerned where this could lead if management judge it a success though..
It's a significant jump, to be sure. I certainly hope this pricing model wont continue into the other games (40k, WHFB), and that this is just GW shamelessly trying to cash in on the soon-to-be-released-and-long-awaited-for Hobbit moves. Perhaps the price is so high because they needed to make up for the costs of licensing? and keeping the whole thing under wraps? Who knows.
Glad I had no interest in this because my god the prices are high. I also think the trolls and goblins are really poorly done. I know they are going for a more realistic look but the orks in particular look nothing like what I picture Tolkien orks to look like. And didn't we see goblins in the other movies that looked alot more like the fantasy range than these?
Well look who's just stuck their middle finger up to their casual gamer's market. £50 for a plastic kit is really not going to attract the kids. The regiment (or whatever they're called) kits aren't half bad though, and in general the quality of the sculpting's gone up a lot since the last film's releases. However, that they're charging silly prices or so few models is a no, no. Sure GW's been doing this for years, but they're now edging into the collector's market rather than the gamer's here. Presumably you could buy the official film sculptures for similar prices (sure you wouldn't be able to buy the amazing balsa wood and sprue goblin village, but sacrifices must be made), which really would be what the bigger fans would be into, not little 28mm figures. =P
Kanluwen wrote: It's also possible that New Line set the prices.
I really doubt that. Otherwise Newline would be setting the prices for all the groups making Hobbit merchandise, and I don't think they have that kinda power.
I think it's more a case of GW's typical MO - short term everything. They found out last time how long the LotR bubble lasts. This bubble will be shorter, as the movies are coming out far more quickly, so they're going to rake in whatever they can with seriously overpriced models (the trolls... WTF?) so that the bubble is the biggest it's ever been.
Wyrmalla wrote: Well look who's just stuck their middle finger up to their casual gamer's market. £50 for a plastic kit is really not going to attract the kids. The regiment (or whatever they're called) kits aren't half bad though, and in general the quality of the sculpting's gone up a lot since the last film's releases. However, that they're charging silly prices or so few models is a no, no. Sure GW's been doing this for years, but they're now edging into the collector's market rather than the gamer's here. Presumably you could buy the official film sculptures for similar prices (sure you wouldn't be able to buy the amazing balsa wood and sprue goblin village, but sacrifices must be made), which really would be what the bigger fans would be into, not little 28mm figures. =P
I'm one of those 'collectors' who has three LOTR SBG armies and has never played the game. But when I look at these prices, particularly $75 USD for the 4 models of the council - there is no way I'm buying those as a collector, even though I love the sculpts.
I'm also glad that the Hobbit (a fantastic book) has zero draw for me as a table top game. Sad.
Kanluwen wrote: It's also possible that New Line set the prices.
I really doubt that. Otherwise Newline would be setting the prices for all the groups making Hobbit merchandise, and I don't think they have that kinda power.
I think it's more a case of GW's typical MO - short term everything. They found out last time how long the LotR bubble lasts. This bubble will be shorter, as the movies are coming out far more quickly, so they're going to rake in whatever they can with seriously overpriced models (the trolls... WTF?) so that the bubble is the biggest it's ever been.
In addition to all of that, price fixing is illegal in the UK, if New Line specified the retail prices then they broke the law.
If they screwed them for a massive license fee, that's another matter.
I suspect that the most likely explanation is the correct one.
ROFL at the $745 "bundle". That's FW Titan territory for only the most serious and insane of wargamers, I genuinely wonder how many impulse buys they can get from that.
I also think it's a mistake to have The Hobbit completely absorb the LOTR game. The core demographic of young impulse buyers that GW markets to will be much more attracted to a name like Lord of The Rings instead of The Hobbit.
Kanluwen wrote: It's also possible that New Line set the prices.
I really doubt that. Otherwise Newline would be setting the prices for all the groups making Hobbit merchandise, and I don't think they have that kinda power.
I think it's more a case of GW's typical MO - short term everything. They found out last time how long the LotR bubble lasts. This bubble will be shorter, as the movies are coming out far more quickly, so they're going to rake in whatever they can with seriously overpriced models (the trolls... WTF?) so that the bubble is the biggest it's ever been.
In addition to all of that, price fixing is illegal in the UK, if New Line specified the retail prices then they broke the law.
If they screwed them for a massive license fee, that's another matter.
I suspect that the most likely explanation is the correct one.
I don't think you quite understand what "price fixing" is if you're saying that New Line specifying the MSRP is illegal.
I'm one of those 'collectors' who has three LOTR SBG armies and has never played the game. But when I look at these prices, particularly $75 USD for the 4 models of the council - there is no way I'm buying those as a collector, even though I love the sculpts.
I'm also glad that the Hobbit (a fantastic book) has zero draw for me as a table top game. Sad.
Holy crap somehow I managed to miss that through 8 pages of this thread. I was seriously thinking about picking up that box and never really looked at the price (I wasn't planning on picking it up this month.) I'm now starting to suspect I won't be buying anything beyond the starter box. Maybe Smaug and Bard if they aren't crazy. The only other really memorable characters I'd miss would be the trolls which are fairly mediocre sculpts and certainly bordering on the crazy end of the price range.
The Goblin Warriors look like they might make passable, inexpensive (for GW) models for plague zombies though.
Ah well. I'm disappointed but I can't say that I'm really surprised.
Now I knew the prices were crazy, but I just looked at the Goblin kit. It's one sprue. One. The models are single piece. There are no options. They can't be posed any differently.
AUD$55. For 18 static models on a single sprue.
They really want to make sure there's enough cash above them when that bubble bursts to block out the sound, don't they?
Kanluwen wrote: It's also possible that New Line set the prices.
I really doubt that. Otherwise Newline would be setting the prices for all the groups making Hobbit merchandise, and I don't think they have that kinda power.
I think it's more a case of GW's typical MO - short term everything. They found out last time how long the LotR bubble lasts. This bubble will be shorter, as the movies are coming out far more quickly, so they're going to rake in whatever they can with seriously overpriced models (the trolls... WTF?) so that the bubble is the biggest it's ever been.
In addition to all of that, price fixing is illegal in the UK, if New Line specified the retail prices then they broke the law.
If they screwed them for a massive license fee, that's another matter.
I suspect that the most likely explanation is the correct one.
I don't think you quite understand what "price fixing" is if you're saying that New Line specifying the MSRP is illegal.
Lol whut?!
Any company enforcing a specified retail price on any retailer is price fixing. The fact that GW is also the manufacturer is largely irrelevant
"price-fixing (agreeing with any other business on a minimum price to sell goods or services at)"
Lifted straight from the UK govt webpage on anti competitive practices.
I know price fixing is more commonly associated with multiple retailers in a market but I'd still contend it could be applied to what you suggest.
Now be careful, I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself falling off that incredibly high horse you appear to be sat on.
I have routinely been amused by the rampant GW price whining on Dakka. Like...for years. About a year or two back, I quit whining about the whining, because hey...they were pretty high. Quit impulse buying, but I still spent a pretty penny on what I specifically wanted.
Still...it is a hobby. Some hobbies are pricey.
But holy **** on a stick...those prices are positively shocking. Makes the decision to sit this one out extremely easy. I love the White Council sculpts, and I'd love to get Thorin's company, but I'll just pay a few extra bucks and get the Legos. Then at least they can fight the Avengers.
Ratbarf wrote: This is making me really depressed. Those Goblins are godawful ugly...... I don't mind the trolls, but I'm not exactly taken by them, and the Dwarves by and large don't look very dwarfish.
Well, those prices rule me out. It's a real shame, because of all the people, I always figured I'd be right near the top of the list of people who'd enjoy this release, but there's no way I can afford any of this.
dienekes96 wrote: But holy **** on a stick...those prices are positively shocking. Makes the decision to sit this one out extremely easy. I love the White Council sculpts, and I'd love to get Thorin's company, but I'll just pay a few extra bucks and get the Legos. Then at least they can fight the Avengers.
Nice to see you on our side Chuck.
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timd wrote: Yeah, the dwarves don't look much like dwarves...
The dwarves look like the dwarves from the film who, as it happens, don't look a lot like traditional dwarves either because there's about a billion of them and they have to be visually distinct from one another otherwise audiences will get confused. And that's before we even get into the fact that a lot of them have very similar sounding names (Fili, Kili, Bifur, Bofur, etc.) so they simply must look different from one another.
Ronin wrote: Looks pretty neat, it was actually buying the Mines of Moria starter set that got me into miniature wargaming, before I moved onto 40k. But holy gak, these kits are expensive. I mean, as an Australian, I am used to paying through the nose for GW's kits, but omg is this expensive. I had to double check to make sure I wasn't accidentally on the New Zealand currency website by accident. $140 for 3 plastic trolls? Get out of here, GW! Thunderwolf Cavalry has the same three 60mm base sized models, but with far more bits and comes at $91. I dont know how GW expects anyone to want to start paying for this. Entry cost just seems way too high to both wanting to get into.
Unless the movies are that good.
Because good movies justify overpriced products? Over $200 in Australia just for the "The Hobbit: Escape from Goblin Town - Limited Edition" box... o.O.
You know what's fun? Select your country to Australia and look at the prices of this Hobbit stuff. 4 small Finecast miniatures are now $125. The bundle is $1,245.
Now I actually have the new WD in front of me and can have a good look at the pics, I have mixed feelings:
- new-style goblins - no surprise really at the changed appearance, I'm sure they match those in the film, and a different look is desirable to everyone _except_ those gamers hoping to reuse their old LotR goblins - sculpting really is hit and miss - some are excellent, some look clumsily done, and some both at once, e.g. the goblin king looks like someone was doing a great job then ran out of time. A few people seem misled by the wrist lines on the trolls - that's just the physical join where you can swap the hand.
- I finally worked out why the goblin town terrain is ladders and walkways (instead of a more traditional town which I'd foolishly expected) - their 'town' fills some sort of huge cave, which makes perfect sense, except -
- it's just a totally generic sprue of ladders and walkways, and not even slightly worth the ludicrously high price. I'm expecting most keen Hobbit modellers will soon work out how to easily make their own ladders and walkways for around a twentieth of the price.
- and as plenty of others have said, all the prices are eye-wateringly expensive - even the intro box, normally relatively good value for GW, is way overpriced. I doubt I'll be buying anything at all.
The three trolls are $140 AUD. The council is $125, The goblin town is $95...
For me this has gone beyond the point where I wouldn't purchase it for even HALF the asking price on those kits. A third, maybe.
One could build that entire goblin town set 10 times over by spending $10 on some balsa wood. The 'escape frrom golbin town' set looks ok, but nothing I'm jumping up to buy.
I can't imagine anyone seriously looking at those trolls and thinking they are good value for money. At these prices, I think GW is going to be looking at a 'Hobbit Black Hole' as opposed to a 'LOTR bubble'....
I can almost buy a MANTA for the cost of the 'complete Hobbit bundle'. That is.... yeah.
Clang wrote: - new-style goblins - no surprise really at the changed appearance, I'm sure they match those in the film, and a different look is desirable to everyone _except_ those gamers hoping to reuse their old LotR goblins
My biggest gripe, prices aside, with the entire release. Those gobbos look less like the illustrations from the Tolkien Bestiary I used to know and love and more like uninspired, CGI-friendly gak.
Wow, those prices are laughable even by GW standards. I really though that GW had gotten the LOTR price gouging out their system last year when they halved the amount of models in each box but kept the prices exactly the same. I guess i misjudged the company yet again...
Despite having no interest in LOTR, i might trying purchasing some of those Goblin warriors and Orc hunters off Ebay in a few months. With a little converting they would make some great Post-Apoc mutants.
As an avid LOTR'er I was well up for some Hobbit shananigans, then I noticed the prices they have up there on the GW site.Thats it go to hell GW. Its just no..... thats wrong sod em thats me done. Been playing there games for 21 years, and thats the straw................no more for me. I realy want to buy all that lovely stuff, but its just silly money. Its like they just make up the numbers
I just purchased the samurai battles box the other day for £55, its cramed with a kings ransome in plastic blokes, cardboard scenery and a huge amount of other gubbinz. All from some tiny obscure Russian company, but the biggest richest wargame company in the world needs to charge this!
Madness. The sculpts look really bad in the official pics, too.
Oh, and as always, for those of you swearing off GW, give Mantic a look. I know they don't have everything perfect, but the prices are great and they're a nice company that treats its customers well.
Plus, they'll be releasing their trolls very soon which will cost less than a quarter of what the GW ones do, so you can still play the hobbit game if you want, there's loads of nice minis out there, no need to use the official GW-sanctioned models if you consider them overpriced.
I mean, yeah, you won't be able to go to GW run "The Hobbit" tournaments but other than that, you're good to go.
If it's awesome goblins you want, otherworld and four-a miniatures make some really, really cool sculpts that look much closer to the original old-style Tolkein designs than these movie-inspired "rage zombies" from GW do... or just use that bucket of lotr goblins you have lying around (possibly already painted), the world won't end if you use them instead, and the sculpts for them look so much better.
Can't help with the £50 rulebook though, that's a cost you'll just have to swallow if you want to play.
£18.50 per Troll does in fact mean that £50 for 3 represents a bargain discount price by GW standards since you save £5.50 compared to buying 3 trolls separately.
The White council of 4 miniatures for £45 is also technically speaking a bulk-discount saving as finecast characters normally cost £12 each. So you're saving £3 there.
Handing over £45 for a single blister of 4 extremely small 25mm miniatures, though... I don't know how anyone could bear to do that using cash from their wallet, short of having a £40k/year salary.
At these prices I expect sales to mirror the sales performance of Dreadfleet.
I can afford it but I would feel like a fool to pay that much. White Council, $75, for 4 figures? Bah.
Another thing I noticed is they dont include all of the dwarves in the boxed set. WTF is up with that?
Now for what I want, I can deal with the prices, cos I want the orcs and their closest to the prices I had before for LOTR.
Goblin town however...............HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! £35! Not in a million years and on top of that it looks fething gak!
Also won't buy the rule book if the rules have changed too much, just carry on using LOTR rules, and then I have to con myself to spend £50 on it
I've pre-ordered it. I don't think that £75 is a lot of money especially for something that will give me, my friends and my family hours of pleasure.
Funnily I was chatting to my sister this morning, and her son has just started to read The Hobbit. He is obsessed with lego and she was saying that the similarly sized star wars lego is much cheaper than the LotR or Hobbit lego.
£45 for the white council? That's just barmy, they are simple, probably single piece, 28mm castings.
When they first released a galadriel she came with her mate and a bowl for £10-12. In fact, most single character figures were about £5-6, and boxes were much better. Your average LotR box set was £20-25 and contained 6-9 figures, the fellowship, attack on weather top, helms deep, etc.
Now it's four figures for £45??? And people wonder why there's a market for GW recasts.
For €79 like the other starter sets I may have broken my embargo on buying GW products for the Escape from Goblin Town set but for €100 they can forget it
Mantic quality at three times the price. This another step back in quality and value for money from GW. I was genuinely shocked that the goblin town scenery set was £35. The cities of death individual building boxes are a good comparison, the COD boxes containing 3 sprues as opposed to 2 in goblin town and as a visual guesstimate makes me pretty certain there is a greater weight of plastic in the COD boxes, the COD boxes cost £20 not £35.
Maybe the buildings are getting another price increase and will be brought in line with "goblin town" next year. Looks like the 40k/WHF rulebooks might be going up to $85, too.
Funny enough, the only thing I might have bought are the Trolls. But they really should've thrown in a Bilbo at that price, as he's not available outside of the big box it seems.
Kind of a missed opportunity IMO to do some "diorama kits" that give you the minis to build classic scenes (Smaug anyone?) from the book/movie, even if you don't play the game.
The trolls are crazy too, you can get three much nicer plastic river trolls for £28.50 so who in their right mind thought £50 was an appropriate price?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: The trolls are crazy too, you can get three much nicer plastic river trolls for £28.50 so who in their right mind thought £50 was an appropriate price?
What got my attention for price wasn't the ugly-as-sin troll models but the White Council. 90CAD for 4 small models. WHAT?! They're not even incredible models! Any Anima Tactics model is far better quality and small ones are $10.
Luckily I wasn't even remotely interested in this even before this all came out. I'd say nice try but it really wasn't. What the hell is with those abortion-fetus goblins?
powerclaw wrote: What got my attention for price wasn't the ugly-as-sin troll models but the White Council. 90CAD for 4 small models. WHAT?! They're not even incredible models! Any Anima Tactics model is far better quality and small ones are $10.
Luckily I wasn't even remotely interested in this even before this all came out. I'd say nice try but it really wasn't. What the hell is with those abortion-fetus goblins?
They are $125 AUD here, I would be realy interested to see how many they sell here in aus :0
Hehe, I was going to buy for my frind who is a massive lord of the rings guy. But I think he would feel I waste the money :p poor GW
Disclaimer: not defending GW's "premium" pricing strategy, but the three trolls are multi-part plastics on 60mm bases. Looking at the scale, they're pretty much dreadnought size, so in relative terms the price makes sense (three dreads is £84 kiddies!)
Jadenim wrote: Disclaimer: not defending GW's "premium" pricing strategy, but the three trolls are multi-part plastics on 60mm bases. Looking at the scale, they're pretty much dreadnought size, so in relative terms the price makes sense (three dreads is £84 kiddies!)
And you get some food with them.
The White Council on the other hand. Whatcha get?
Edit: Nevermind, the answer is in the description.
This White Council kit is made up of four unique figures produced in our premium Citadel Finecast resin.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: Yeah, like the original game, with their really awesome sets. But alas, it's no longer 2003!
I've still got 2 of them (Treebeard, and the one with the wizards and eagle), they were a great idea!
stubacca wrote: I can't believe how expensive everything else, £110 for the limited edition game and the scenery to play it on?!
Did I read that right? £110 for the limited edition? And then £100-105 for the regular edition? Do they plan on selling any? I can get the Kingdom Death game for that!
Edit: Ah it's only £75 for the limited edition. More worryingly I happily accepted that it was £110. Is that the dollar price?
And £35 for Goblin town doesn't seem as bad, it's still a resounding no from me though.
Mick A wrote: I was looking forward to getting some new Wargs to add to the other ones but these look totally different :( sorry GW, another lost sale...
Mick
I haven't seen a clip of the Wargs from the film yet but I believe the blame for this lies with Peter Jackson and the WETA design team.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: Yeah, like the original game, with their really awesome sets. But alas, it's no longer 2003!
I've still got 2 of them (Treebeard, and the one with the wizards and eagle), they were a great idea!
stubacca wrote: I can't believe how expensive everything else, £110 for the limited edition game and the scenery to play it on?!
Did I read that right? £110 for the limited edition? And then £100-105 for the regular edition? Do they plan on selling any? I can get the Kingdom Death game for that!
Edit: Ah it's only £75 for the limited edition. More worryingly I happily accepted that it was £110. Is that the dollar price?
And £35 for Goblin town doesn't seem as bad, it's still a resounding no from me though.
Yeh, sorry, should've cleared it up more. The limited is £75 and the goblin town is £35, so £110 in total, but for a game that probably not many people are going to play in a few years is a huuuuuuuge expense! At least with 40k/warhammer you can find games anywhere
Jadenim wrote: Disclaimer: not defending GW's "premium" pricing strategy, but the three trolls are multi-part plastics on 60mm bases. Looking at the scale, they're pretty much dreadnought size, so in relative terms the price makes sense (three dreads is £84 kiddies!
As above: River Trolls are three to a pack for $74 AUD, compared to 140 AUD for the Hobbit trols who are arguably much, much less interesting sculpts. For only $10 more I'd much prefer to get three Moria cave trolls.
Zweischneid wrote:Seems like a steal to me... at least compared to terrain from other wargaming companies such as Hawk Wargame
I thought you might be joking... but wow, those buildings are pricey. Pretty, but... wow. On the other hand, they have a range of free downloadable card buildings at the same time..
I woke up this morning to the GW e-mail. I was super excited to see what they were coming out with, and while I dont hate the models as much as some on here... I do hate those prices. But to be honest, while I won't buy this stuff, I'll probably just take that money and spend it on fantasy instead. Damn GW.
Mick A wrote: I was looking forward to getting some new Wargs to add to the other ones but these look totally different :( sorry GW, another lost sale...
Mick
I haven't seen a clip of the Wargs from the film yet but I believe the blame for this lies with Peter Jackson and the WETA design team.
Correct. Although there is no 'blame' to be had... the Wargs from the LotR trilogy were terrible. even P.J expressed his distaste for them. The Wargs we'll be seeing in the Hobbit are far closer to Tolkien's vision of them, wolf-like and rabid!
Howard A Treesong wrote: £45 for the white council? That's just barmy, they are simple, probably single piece, 28mm castings.
When they first released a galadriel she came with her mate and a bowl for £10-12. In fact, most single character figures were about £5-6, and boxes were much better. Your average LotR box set was £20-25 and contained 6-9 figures, the fellowship, attack on weather top, helms deep, etc.
Now it's four figures for £45??? And people wonder why there's a market for GW recasts.
Weathertop was like one of the best LOTR boxsets ever. 5 Ringwraiths, Aragorn and 4 Hobbits for £20-£25 IIRC. No wonder GW got rid of it PDQ.
astrocat wrote: Just seen the Goblin Town kit, ridiculously priced but it has really tempted me to model the whole of Dark Souls Blighttown on a gameboard.
The heart says "do it."
The wallet says "you ******* idiot, not again..."
There's a much easier and cheaper way, which has already been said in this thread:
1: Go into coffee shop
2: Grab a handful of the wooden stirrers
3: Rinse and repeat
4: ???
5: Profit!
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Everyone is saying the price of the starter is obscene, and yet to me I think it is a great deal.
Dark Vengeance is 99 dollars for 48 minis, this limited edition Goblin Town is 125 for 56. Obviously I'm ignoring the differences in miniatures, but the goblin town set comes with 13 dwarf HEROES aka each one is a unique leader, gandalf, bilbo, radagast, and the goblin king. So lots of unique sculpts.
And on top of the massive number of heroes, it comes with terrain, which dark vengeance did NOT come with. So to me it seems like a pretty sweet deal. 56 minis plus rules, terrain, dice, extra crap all for 125- much better deal that GW usually offers.
Also like others have pointed out, the 3 trolls save you money when you look at the prices of trolls individually. The white council also could have easily just been 4 blister packs at $20 or more considering GW pricing.
Really most of these sets are usual GW pricing or less, it's just all bundled instead of broken up into small packets, which I guess everyone is used to.
Tezerel wrote: I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Everyone is saying the price of the starter is obscene, and yet to me I think it is a great deal.
Dark Vengeance is 99 dollars for 48 minis, this limited edition Goblin Town is 125 for 56. Obviously I'm ignoring the differences in miniatures, but the goblin town set comes with 13 dwarf HEROES aka each one is a unique leader, gandalf, bilbo, radagast, and the goblin king. So lots of unique sculpts.
And on top of the massive number of heroes, it comes with terrain, which dark vengeance did NOT come with. So to me it seems like a pretty sweet deal. 56 minis plus rules, terrain, dice, extra crap all for 125- much better deal that GW usually offers.
Also like others have pointed out, the 3 trolls save you money when you look at the prices of trolls individually. The white council also could have easily just been 4 blister packs at $20 or more considering GW pricing.
Really most of these sets are usual GW pricing or less, it's just all bundled instead of broken up into small packets, which I guess everyone is used to.
What scenery? You don't get scenery included in this, you have to pay £35 EXTRA for the privilege of scenery, all you get in this is a chair for the goblin king to stand on
"Limited Edition contains 56 Citadel Miniatures including: Gandalf the Grey, Bilbo Baggins, Thorin Oakenshield, the limited edition Radagast the Brown, Oin the Dwarf, Gloin the Dwarf, Nori the Dwarf, Ori the Dwarf, Kili the Dwarf, Fili, the Dwarf, Dwalin the Dwarf, Bombur the Dwarf, Bofur the Dwarf, Bifur the Dwarf, The Goblin King, Grinnah the Goblin, The Goblin Scribe, Goblin Captain, 36 Goblin Warriors, and The Goblin King's platform. Also included is a 48 Page full colour 'Your Journey Begins Here' booklet, 1 Play Sheet, a 112 page full colour rules manual, 8 Dice, and 1 Ruler"
3 x river trolls with complex moulds and excellent detail £28.50 - 3 x overly simplified and horribly sculpted hobbit trolls £50
Cities of Death building with 3 sprues and more plastic £20 - goblin town nicely sculpted 2 spruces but lighter gauge £35
You see where I'm going with this? GW has rinsed costs to the bone with this range and then overcharged for it. If people pay these prices then expect next years price rises to reflect this. Acceptance is permission in GWs eyes. They have chosen to run this experiment with the hobbit as trend buying will make this a success in corporate eyes and then they will believe there entire range should be this price as that is what they think the market will stand. Do not buy overpriced substandard miniatures, it only encourages them to carry out future crimes against the hobby.
, be interesting to see exactly what ( if anything) this might herald.
Hopefully it will not ruin the story by adding too much random nonsense.
. Some of those models are actually quite sweet!
