pretre wrote:Heavy Bolters plus 2 of the mounted heavy bolters on the Bastion (only 2 can hit any enemy at any time unless they surround you). So 6 HB that rend from the Rets.
Coteaz had 3 Lascannons, one with Skyfire. Divination gives him rerolls to hit at the least. In the case of one game, he got ignore cover. "Oh, your flyer jinks? About that..."
lol nice. I rarely have gotten that one so far, I keep getting something useless that I trade in for default power like scryner's gaze when I don't use any reserves. Might be useful to keep if I go the double deep strike of immortals list lol. I keep forgetting retributors are rending. Didn't even think that their turrets would be rending too.
Spidey0804 wrote:Tabled the guy in the bottom of the 5th. I used a V formation Celestine/ Series screening the PE's flanked but the Repentia squad on either side of the PE's. Were were playing the Big Gus missions which make my Rets and PEs scoring . Final score was out of 5 objectives I had 4. I also had max points on first blood warlord slayer (as Celestine beat the snot out of Shrike over 3 Rnds of Combat--- her having a 2+ save that doesn't disappear to PWs anymore makes her and even nastier beast than before, and getting a scoring unit in your enemies deployment zone.. My Rets were able to glance his fliers right out of the sky. And 20 sisters unloading on anything just with bolter fire was more than impressive. He fielded 10 termies which were eaten up by Repentia and the PEs. Celestine had the Warlord trait of everyone with 12 inches of her has Move through cover (which also allows me to ignore Dangerous Terrain test as my jumpers move through ruins with there packs..)
Like I said this was beast.
I would pay money to see a batrep with pictures. As the Foot Sisters evangelist, I think you owe us one Spidey!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote:The good GK ally build that I saw was a guy locally.
He ran Coteaz + 2 Monkeys + Ablative Warriors. Gave Coteaz Divination and put them on top of a Bastion with Icarus.
Put rets inside the bastion.
Nasty nasty.
Definitely mean, you'd just better hope that no one takes that building down. Neither of those units will survive the 4D6 hits they'll take when it gets popped.
I plan on running a 2k foot list this weekend for my additional 250 pnts Im going to throw in a beast of a foot Dominion squad that has either 4 flamers or 4 meltas that is all decked out. LOL!
Follow my logic on this one with the way Nova is running this year at least from what i saw in their primmer they are using the missions that make heavy scorers and fast scorers. So most of the time I should have 4 to 5 scoring units on ones that are KP the list only has 10 KP at 1750 and 11 at 2000... And most of those units I can make fearless I fi position them right,
BTW 17 bolters firing at something makes stuff, even marines fall over. And those big squads dont just sit in the back field they are marching right beside the V formation of Str 6, Str 10 power weapons that are all AP 2...
You know 3 PEs have the chance of... be it a very slim one of having 54 attacks on a charge. A 8 man Repentia squad has 33 attacks on the charge.
The army was a total blast to run I just need to practice moving that many models fast. LOL
Quick post, more to come later: Did two games last Saturday @ 1999 + 1, Feast of Blades rules and scenarios. First game was against a mixed BA list, scenario 3. I managed a Minor Victory (would have been Major but my dice sucked). Second game was against mixed DE, scenario 1. I tabled him top of 5 for a Massacre earning all but 2 of the additional points. Will try to post more come tomorrow.
Doesn't look like it, since only on a To Wound roll of 6 do you get the AP2 effect, against vehicles (separate paragraph) you only got an extra D3 on an armour penetration roll of 6.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Quick post, more to come later:
Did two games last Saturday @ 1999 + 1, Feast of Blades rules and scenarios. First game was against a mixed BA list, scenario 3. I managed a Minor Victory (would have been Major but my dice sucked). Second game was against mixed DE, scenario 1. I tabled him top of 5 for a Massacre earning all but 2 of the additional points. Will try to post more come tomorrow.
Very nice!
And that's correct, rending is only ap2 vs models with wounds.
I feel like lances should have given +1 init on the charge. They don't really fill a role for anything, and the other options make them obsolete.
Swords = good all rounders but not specialized
Axes= good 2+ killers, but slow
Mauls= good tank/MC killer, but poor AP Lances= Shouldve been bonus init (user str and ap3?) on the charge, and user str ap4 afterwards.
I must say, that while I sold off my sisters army, I play against it on a weekly basis. So far the only additions to it have been 2 rhinos, but they haven't been fielded lately. With my tyranids, i get tabled on a regular basis, with my eldar, it's about a 50/50 ratio.
The standard list is:
Uriah
6DCA, 3 crusaders Rhino
5 10man BSS squads flamer, HB static 2 layer gunline, or in rhinos for mobility/ mobile cover
2 5man dom squads 2 flamer Immolators
10 seraphim 2 dual hand flamers
5man ret squad either 4 hvy flamers in an immolator, or 4 MM on foot
2 exorcist
facing a line of 40 bolters backed with heavy bolters and flamers to discourage the charges, has so far been nasty.
My only recourse lately has been mobility of my eldar and longer range.
Overall, they're still a competitive army, you just have to use differing tactics.
If you have something like rage then the lance is worth it, as you should be aiming to assault the enemy.
Unfortunately sisters have no way to guarantee the assault. UNlike GKDCA in a raven or raider.
DCA may as well have lance and sword, though this just amounts to a safer version of furious charge.
Personally I think it is safer to assume you will not have the assault and take sword with axe, this means you will be ready for termies, you do not have much to deal with termies otherwise.
I have shelved my for the time being as I'm running 2 squads of Repentia and 3 PEs. So far every time I have take the Foot list out I have tabled my opponent by turn 5.
I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).
Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?
I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).
Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?
Maul is for Dreadnoughts, high toughness units with a good invul but poor armor (avatar, greater daemons) and 4+ save units. Axe is for termies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maul also works Necron vehicles, heavy lemans.
I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).
Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?
Maul is for Dreadnoughts, high toughness units with a good invul but poor armor (avatar, greater daemons) and 4+ save units. Axe is for termies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maul also works Necron vehicles, heavy lemans.
Dreadnoughts. Good point.
On the other things (Daemons and whatnot) I don't think it makes much difference. You might get an extra unsaved wound on the Avatar, but at the same time lances will significantly outperform mauls against big Tyranids. I can't think of any 4+ Sv infantry that isn't already getting shredded by cultists w/o the maul, either. Still, it's probably worth it to have 4 or 5 mauls since that'll give you a 50/50 shot of glancing a Dread to death on the charge, which is pretty wacky I have to say.
The Swords at S4 AP3 will kill anything with a 3+ but wraithlords on the charge anyways. The mauls are there for the one thing I always had to avoid before, Dreads, and the Axes take care of 2+. My crusaders carry axes (except one I can't convert, damn him). Which helps out on the AP2 end, as well.
Amusing. I'm still doing a bunch of thoughtmath on different units, but I defnitely like the variety. I just finished converting my DCA/Crusaders to the new weapons... YAY.
Gotta remember that fearless from an IC goes unit wide now. Very fun. Had a guard player battle brother with some marines and slam an HQ into the unit makig the blob unbreakable...
A few things I have noted with my old assaulty list:
- It doesn't work. Transports are unreliable and ultimately just slow assault units down, as far as I can see. Had to change it up in a big way - no rhino at all, for a start.
-Penitent Engines work better, but keep in squads of three to play with Hull points. Long range shooting is more important, so as much as I love them I dropped from using 3 units of 2 to the one unit of three. Still rip it up.
-Celestine heading a flying V of Seraphim is the new Repentia Rhino. I've been using her to guide in two units of Repentia since with fleet they can keep up, and if I am hitting something with really nasty overwatch Celestine and co. can assault, then my half naked Repentia can scream in without dropping to overwatch.
Conclaves are ultimately too slow for this, unfortunately.
-As much as I love the idea of a rending quad gun, I like being able to throw fire down the board from multiple units better. So I use one Exorcist, One Retributer squad, and one basic SoB squad in a quad gun Bastion for long range support. Rets and Quad can both take aim at flyers (Immo too if needed too).
-Inspired by Spidey, I switched to Kyrinov and I am loving it. I use min. sized SoB squads still and keep them away from combat, but people find it seriously demoralizing to throw a ton of fire into my army, kill a bunch of girls, and realize they are all fearless and still happy as can be on their objective. They guard objectives and provide midfield fire support.
-I'm only running one Immolator at the moment - between low AV, hull points, the nerf to melta glances, and the Doms being stuck if the vehicle blows or moves more than 6", they have not been doing nearly as much. I might bring another one back in, but for now it's become a specialty/distraction unit in my army. Might just have had a run of bad luck with them?
- Kyrinov's conclave is an anemic, small counter assault sized thing vs the beasts I would throw down the field before. Without fleet and with Rhino's being useless, I just have no way to threaten with them outside of my own deployment, so I use the points elsewhere.
- Long range ordinance shooting scares me. It scares my troops, my AV11, my characters - it is scary. A wall of AV14 Leman Russ is likewise scary. Doubled up IG heavy support is a terrible, terrible thing.
I have not been tabling opponents with any regularity, but I have certainly been putting them on the defensive, and eating large swaths of army.
Honestly, I feel pretty cheesy using Celestine that way. I know it's what everyone is doing with their 2+ save characters, but it still feels pretty dirty, and I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing I should pull in a friendly game or no.
What's the consensus forming in other folks part of the woods? Is using a 2+ save to guard multiple units dirty pool, or just the way 6th is played?
It is the way 6th is played. It took me 3 turns to chew through a unit of BT with 20 gauss flayers and 10 gauss blasters all double tapping b/c of some wierd grand spirit champion or something like that. The new wound allocation cna be cheesed way to easy and alot of people are doing it.
Hollowman wrote:
A few things I have noted with my old assaulty list:
- It doesn't work. Transports are unreliable and ultimately just slow assault units down, as far as I can see. Had to change it up in a big way - no rhino at all, for a start.
-Penitent Engines work better, but keep in squads of three to play with Hull points. Long range shooting is more important, so as much as I love them I dropped from using 3 units of 2 to the one unit of three. Still rip it up.
-Celestine heading a flying V of Seraphim is the new Repentia Rhino. I've been using her to guide in two units of Repentia since with fleet they can keep up, and if I am hitting something with really nasty overwatch Celestine and co. can assault, then my half naked Repentia can scream in without dropping to overwatch.
Conclaves are ultimately too slow for this, unfortunately.
-As much as I love the idea of a rending quad gun, I like being able to throw fire down the board from multiple units better. So I use one Exorcist, One Retributer squad, and one basic SoB squad in a quad gun Bastion for long range support. Rets and Quad can both take aim at flyers (Immo too if needed too).
-Inspired by Spidey, I switched to Kyrinov and I am loving it. I use min. sized SoB squads still and keep them away from combat, but people find it seriously demoralizing to throw a ton of fire into my army, kill a bunch of girls, and realize they are all fearless and still happy as can be on their objective. They guard objectives and provide midfield fire support.
-I'm only running one Immolator at the moment - between low AV, hull points, the nerf to melta glances, and the Doms being stuck if the vehicle blows or moves more than 6", they have not been doing nearly as much. I might bring another one back in, but for now it's become a specialty/distraction unit in my army. Might just have had a run of bad luck with them?
- Kyrinov's conclave is an anemic, small counter assault sized thing vs the beasts I would throw down the field before. Without fleet and with Rhino's being useless, I just have no way to threaten with them outside of my own deployment, so I use the points elsewhere.
- Long range ordinance shooting scares me. It scares my troops, my AV11, my characters - it is scary. A wall of AV14 Leman Russ is likewise scary. Doubled up IG heavy support is a terrible, terrible thing.
I have not been tabling opponents with any regularity, but I have certainly been putting them on the defensive, and eating large swaths of army.
Honestly, I feel pretty cheesy using Celestine that way. I know it's what everyone is doing with their 2+ save characters, but it still feels pretty dirty, and I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing I should pull in a friendly game or no.
What's the consensus forming in other folks part of the woods? Is using a 2+ save to guard multiple units dirty pool, or just the way 6th is played?
Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.
I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.
Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.
I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.
It's pretty close, and I definitely took inspiration from you In a few places - specifically Kyrinov, and your mention of the V formation. I'd dropped my rhinos and was using seraphim to screen, but in a less organized "put them in front and hope the enemy doesn't shoot anything behind them" way. The V guarding my reps works well, though I run my PE a good bit behind (or entirely separate) depending on who I'm fighting. I don't like being too bunched up for templates. But really, the main changes from my 5th list were dropping PE, rhino, and conclaves to add more long range shooting.
The Exorcist, Quad Bastion and Immolator all help split up AT fire, which is still nice for my PE, and each fills a role just different enough that I want to keep them around - the great thing about my Ret squad is that they can provide support for any of the other long range/AT roles if need be.
Fun Misstep Facts: For a moment there, I thought it would be worth it to dust off my arco's! With more attacks, higher strength, and DCA becoming ap3, Arco would be the best at AT assault, killing TEQ (weight of attacks/more wounds), and against hordes as always! Then I realized DCA could take any mix of weapons and use the best each round, and I sighed and put my Arco back on the shelf. Poor guys.
Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.
I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.
Spidey, with no other vehicles how do you keeps your PEs alive? Even with hull point trickery I still find them to go down very, very quickly with no other targets for any autocannon or (worse) lascannons I face. Cover, even 4+ from an Aegis line, only goes so far. Now, while they are being shot at the rest of my army is able to be plenty killy, but I feel like if the PEs are doing nothing but soaking fire from the rest of my army... why use them instead of 2 exorcists, which can at least shoot back as they are shot at? I am curious how you use your PEs, and how you keep them alive.
Hollowman, please feel free to chime in as well!
I've had some moderate success with PEs in a 2 Exorcist, 4 rhino (2 BSS, 2 Dominions) list - but am very curious how they manage to make it across the table in a foot list when they are the only viable target for your opponent's AT.
quiestdeus wrote:
Hollowman, please feel free to chime in as well!
I've had some moderate success with PEs in a 2 Exorcist, 4 rhino (2 BSS, 2 Dominions) list - but am very curious how they manage to make it across the table in a foot list when they are the only viable target for your opponent's AT.
Well, I do use vehicles, both now and back in my old PE heavy list, so I don't have many tricks for keeping them alive in a foot list. it does sound harder.
Anyways, when running PE as I see it my opponent has three options…
Option 1 - throw a lot of good AT into PE, probably leaving Celestine, two AP1 tanks and a heavy quad gun sitting pretty. I'm even happier if they drop blast templates on my PE, which would otherwise kill a bunch of my girls. Not good for my PE, but often not a bad tradeoff when it comes down to it.
Option 2 - ignore my PE, allowing them to march up the board and prepare to flamer/crump something. I'm fine with that.
Option 3 - Try to suppress multiple units including PE, which generally leaves all of them combat ready at the end of the turn (especially with suppression being harder now). Almost always works out in my favor.
Each round PE are alive, they get to pick one.
As for how I try to keep my PE alive, I basically have two tricks. The first is forcibly reminding my opponent he has other things to shoot at. This means good strategy, backed by good luck… picking the best target for my Immo to melt, my exorcist to blow, my quad gun to target. Picking the right unit to push Celestine and her three assault units towards with alarming speed. Working out what other threats will get under my opponents skin the most. If one or two of those really come through, or just unnerve my opponent, it is surprisingly easy to get him/her to ignore the walkers that have not done anything yet in favor of other targets.
My second trick is just disruption. I have some pretty good tricks in the list to wreck the enemy’s plans. If the PE are ignored, or survive a round or two, I can often disrupt their AT or change its focus enough to allow PE to move forward relatively unmolested. I can bring down flyers pretty well, I can drive Celestine and co. right down the middle, splitting reps and seraphim off to hold up or break units that would otherwise be targeting PE. Exorcists and Immo’s are not really reliable, but between them I can often distract, kill or suppress their best AT armor. Basically this is just my first trick with a steel glove – I force them to choose who to shoot while simultaneously knocking out as much shooting as I can and ramping up the threat level presented by all my other units.
The weaknesses of the PE often help me, honestly. A good player knows they can’t do anything until in assault range, so they shoot elsewhere for one or two rounds hoping to kill something that is already effective. But my assault units are fast enough, and my ranged AT good enough (though admittedly not great) that by the time it makes sense to shoot at PE, it has become much, much harder to shoot them; and there are multiple other targets that would be really nice to shoot at as well.
All that said, I expect my PE to die. They are not there to hold objectives in the last round. My assault elements are there to cripple and push back my enemy, allowing my fearless SoB squads to enter the last rounds largely unmolested and facing an enemy that is now hopefully much smaller, a good distance away and unable to bring enough to bear to win the game. if my PE are alive at the end, great, but I didn't bring them expecting to see them at the afterparty.
^ QFT that is exactly what you need to do... Screening your assault element with the fast moving Seraphims is really key to this. If the screen disappears to early it leaves all your element exposed. People fear Celestine for some reason LOL seeing her at the tip of a V puts a lot of players on their heels right out the gate.
You need to keep you BSS squads close to each other so the fearless bubble hits both of them as they are advancing shooting 17 bolters each turn from each squad.
I am really starting to look at Priests now for my bigger sister squads just so I can have extra ICs to feed into challenges if I need to. This list only works with concentrated fire support from all elements that allows your assault element to advance mid-field and they switch to a counter assault Roles.
PEs will act as your fire magnets for a round or 2. With the way Nova sets up the terrain I can ussally deny line of fire to them which is really what you want to do. After you get them to mid feild you have the solid 24 to 30' threat bubble that no one in there right mind would step into.
While people freak out over them, 3 units will have just hit them in next round hand to hand. A unit of Seraphim, and 2 units of Repentia just mauling anything they get there hands on. 2 Repentia can take out a 5 man Terminator squad, or make it completely combat ineffective. Let alone if you hit a squad at full strength 1 Repentia squad can take out 2 terminator squads 9 times out of 10.
Timing your assaults are the really the key to mastering the foot list.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Keeping you Mistress at the front of the squad help differ shots coming into the squad.
I played a game against a Sanguinary Guard list last night. Basically Dante, Mephiston, 3 units of Sang Guard, and a Vindicator. With basically 20 models at 1500 pts, I should've been able to roll them, but Mephiston just wrecked me.
He was able to give the Sang Guard "Invisibility" for a 4+ cover save in the open. It was really tough. With 4+ for the guys in the open and then using that unit or terrain to give cover to the others, there were entire shooting phases where I failed to cause any casualties! He may have been a little above average with the cover saves, but our complete lack of psychic defense is the root of the problem more than hot dice.
Has anyone else been rolled by psykers in the new edition? Other than "try to kill them first" (which, trust me, I really tried to do) what can we do to stop them?
Well that's the problem with Sang Guard. 2+/FNP against your bolters and flamers, and then against the gobs of S8 AP1 goodness they're taking 4+ cover. Celestine's downgrade to AP3 was also pretty frustrating. I don't think she caused a single wound all game.
I've never had a problem with psykers in the past, mainly because their powers just were never that impactful. I guess I'm just alarmed with the combination of the potency of the new powers with my complete and utter lack of defense against them.
Well step one is to position Celestine next to the priest / novitiate and start burning. Once he's down, it's gravy. But yeah, nasty. All the melta you should BR packing should help. Even with a 4+ they die and you prob outnumber 3-4 to one. I guess I'll see if I run up against it.
Anyone thought of a counter charge block or spearhead or enforced flank of two BA assault units in landraiders. It sounds weird but sort of exciting. I very much like the thought of a serious tarpit and midfield firing raiders, less concerned with nutty rushes than finding clever positioning in this list.
well I've had some good success with sisters. I took 5th at the conflict GT with them and 3rd at the colonial GT...
I won't be dropping the codex anytime soon but allies have allowed me to make up for some weakness in the dex...
Now... this is a play test list built to match my style on the table... Let me know if you spot the various tactics/tricks/funny things this list can do.... or if there are any 6th top tier lists i should get some games against to learn how to play around them.
HQ St Celestine
Blood angels Librarian with shield and fear
Elite
Furioso Librarian with drop pod, blood lance, and fear the darkness
Troops
10 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with combi flamer, rhino with dozers
10 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with combi flamer, rhino with dozers
5 scouts with sniper Rifles, camo cloaks, missile
5 assault marines in las/twin plas razor, flamer
Fast
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers
Heavy
exorcist
exorcist
exorcist
Fort
Aegis defense line with quad gun
Now i know my troops section is weak... but it hasn't been much of an issue for me in the past.
What's the thoughts on a Condemnor Boltgun? I know a single shot anti-psyker weapon isn't exactly appealing, (and forcing perils of the warp is most humorous when Commisars are involved,) but the fact that every superior in our army list is capable of having them and it being our only defense against psykers.... well aside from shooting them harder.... it has to have some merit possibly?
Or do the sisters not care about the effects of psykers?
Seems like the Sisters, if anyone, would have some dedicated anti-psyker units or wargear. It's one of their main duties to hunt down rogue psykers and unsanctioned witches for goodness sake.
Of course, but what is our weapon? We abhor the witch, suffer not the witch to live, but don't exactly have anything to take on the witch, aside from things we use on non-witches, heretics and the like.
Again it seems those who wrote the dex don't like/know/or care about their fluff!
Ltd anti psycher options
3 spec characters only one a sister
Compare acts of faith to GK psychic powers and tell me they are compariable!
20 pts for heavy flamers? WTF!!!
Repressors have "assault ramps" but aren't assault vehicles?
No option to assault out of a vehicle.
only aegis defence line for anti-flyer well lots in that boat I guess.
I know allies can fill gaps but I like playing the army I came with.
I took the Sisters to a tournament yesterday; it wasn't worth the trouble of a real battle report so I'll just post a little run-down here.
My list included:
Celestine
5 Celestians, flamers, combi-flamer; melta-lator
3x10 Battle Sisters, heavy flamer, melta gun, 2 with combi-meltas
2x5 Dominions, flamers, combi-flamer; melta-lator
9 Seraphim, 2 hand flamers
3 Exorcists
All of the Superiors had melta-bombs.
First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two.
Second game was against a really pleasant young man learning to play with a deeply, uncompetitive Necron army. It still came down to the last turn to get a pretty convincing win. Wraiths are kinda tough to get rid of.
Third game was versus IG with a magic, five-shot Manticore. The mission was like Big Guns with Vanguard deployment, and he destroyed an objective-holding Exorcist with the fifth volley from the Manticore. I didn't remember until later that Manticores don't get five shots, only four. An appropriately sucky way to end a suck fest.
I didn't stay for round four; it's 130-odd miles from home.
well, I for one would like to have seen more of what happened. I know we have the luxury of laughing at TEQ armies, but Now I'm interested in what exactly happened in those games.
pzbw7z wrote:First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two
This was my experience as well. I faced a Venom Spam army in the last 5E tournament I played in and it was ROUGH. Even with good cover, he was able to take out all of my ranged shooting on turn one. After that it was just watching my Rhinos get popped and then Vect and his wytches just cleaned up whatever spilled out. It had been a very long time since I had been routed like that.
pzbw7z wrote:First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two
This was my experience as well. I faced a Venom Spam army in the last 5E tournament I played in and it was ROUGH. Even with good cover, he was able to take out all of my ranged shooting on turn one. After that it was just watching my Rhinos get popped and then Vect and his wytches just cleaned up whatever spilled out. It had been a very long time since I had been routed like that.
If you haven't experienced it with the Eldar allies. . . well, it's just not the same!
A squadron of War Walkers and a squadron of Vypers makes it just SO much more fun! Picking up Celestine and an entire squad of Seraphim in one shooting phase. . . priceless!
Of course, but what is our weapon? We abhor the witch, suffer not the witch to live, but don't exactly have anything to take on the witch, aside from things we use on non-witches, heretics and the like.
Psykers die the same as everyone else burning and screaming.
As for venom spam, I haven't played against it with my sob, but I guess we can't be good against everyone.
Venom Spam vs infantry armies is about as fun as running Nid-Zilla vs Brotherhood Banner GK's. The fight is decided long before the actual game. I feel for you my friend (one of the reasons I started DE). On the topic of wraiths, you have not seen their true power until you have faced a full unit of them with Whip Coils with a destroyer lord. 2+ armor, with those sneaky mss to go with it means you are either accepting a challenge you are sure to lose no matter what, or you decline and the lord gets to run rampant through your I-1 unit. Not to mention how rough wraiths are themselves.
For those who dont know the BHB vs Nid-Zilla, it is facing down a monstorus creature based list with auto pass force weapons. Those big 300 point bugs get shreded by 220 points of gk without a chance to stand up and fight.
Anyone think our units should at least have psyk-out grenades? I also feel like giving out Sister Superiors condemers automatically wouldn't be to far either.
I got tabled Thursday night by a 1750 Nid list that had 2 flyinh hives 3 Teragons doom and 3 Zoees. Yes I think this edition is going to be dubbed the Flying Psykers edition.
I'll add to the litany of woes. I got (nearly) tabled by a Daemon "Flying Circus" list.
Admittedly I was playing a silly all foot army (with a Canoness!) but my big takeaway was that if your opponent passes his Grounding tests, there's just not much you can do. At that point, he's more or less free to dictate the game.
The commonly heard "Well if you can hit them three times they'll probably fail a test" line is valid, but it's still a 3+ roll. How many times have you passed 5 or 6 armor saves? It's not that uncommon. I took the tactic of trying to shoot Fateweaver with my BSSs to get him to land so that I could then hit him with the big guns. Well, when he doesn't land, what do you do? My Exorcists have to either waste shots against the flyers or go after the lower priority targets.
Overall I was able to wipe out all of his troops but all I had at the end of the game was 3 women in combat with a couple of Bloodcrushers desperately trying to hold an objective. I think that my mech'd up list would do better against them, but again, if you can't put the flyers on the ground, you're left flailing against them or just ignoring them and going after the softer targets. Neither of those seem to be winning options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, those three ladies holding the objective were freaking rockstars in that game. Their "mysterious objective" was a Skyfire Nexus, so they were the only unit that could hit anything. (Although with bolters and a single multi-melta they didn't do much.) But they did manage to wipe out a unit of 7 Bloodletters in overwatch and then with a turn of shooting and another clutch overwatch performance they killed 3 (of 5) Bloodcrushers. They were pretty amazing.
Okay, before this turns into a 'Woe is me' fest...
Keep in mind that we are playing a new version of the game and a lot of these stories of woe include some pretty out there outliers.
Yes, you will play games where you get screwed by the dice.
Yes, you will get bad match-ups.
Yes, you will play players who tromp you soundly.
That's part of a competitive wargame.
@Amerikon: So 'wacky' list... Did you take an Icarus or Quad? I think an Aegis or Bastion is pretty much required at this point. And almost getting tabled when playing a silly list against a normal list is kind of what happens.
pretre wrote:Okay, before this turns into a 'Woe is me' fest...
Let's be clear, I wasn't trying to be all doom and gloom, just reporting an experience. I think it's a legitimate concern and a better response might be a discussion of ways to deal with FMCs. Is our only option "shoot at them and hope they fall down"? If so then it's quite likely that we'll all play games where we're at the mercy of a few 3+ rolls. (I guess that's not really a new development, but it feels more prevalent in the new edition.)
pretre wrote:@Amerikon: So 'wacky' list... Did you take an Icarus or Quad? I think an Aegis or Bastion is pretty much required at this point. And almost getting tabled when playing a silly list against a normal list is kind of what happens.
I use an Aegis in my tournament list and it would certainly have helped in this game, but again my concern is less that I was rolled but more that the "shoot it until it falls" technique was a complete failure. That makes me wonder, should I have tried to ignore the flyers and gone after them only when my units had no other legitimate targets? This is effectively what happened minus the whole "shooting other targets" part. If you can't take down the Flyers, maybe that's a good plan.
It's not really relevant but here's what I took:
Spoiler:
HQ St Celestine
Canoness w/ Inferno Pistol, Power Weapon
FAST
10x Seraphim, 2x Hand Flamers, VSS w/ meltabombs
HEAVY
Exorcist
Exorcist
5x Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolters
(I'd played against this guy before and he had a pretty unremarkable Vulkan list, so I decided to play an army that I wouldn't normally use. Imagine my surprise when I see him pulling out the big daemons...)
pretre wrote:If you're going Rets, I might go bastion instead of Aegis. 2 Extra rending HBs is pretty nasty.
You can put the quad on the roof still if you want.
So how does this work? I haven't really looked much at the rules for the Bastion.
Can the Rets shoot their HBs as well as the ones on the Bastion or do you have to buy extra bodies to (wo)man them?
If you put the Quad Gun up top, do the Rets have to be on the battlement to shoot it, or can they be inside of the Bastion? Similarly, can they fire the Quad Gun as well as their weapons or would you need another body still?
A couple things. You need extra bodies for the emplaced HBs, which are fired from inside. Depending on how you setup the bastion, you have between 0 and 3 fire points per side.
The bottom has one fire point on each side (except the side with the door).
The top has two sides with two fire points and two sides with none.
All four sides have emplaced heavy bolters.
The way I set mine up is to have the two two FP top sides adjacent to each other and above bottoms with one FP on them. This (if positioned correctly) allows 6 fire points and 2 HB to be fired at most targets.
The quad gun on the top is fired by a separate unit, so in this case, I would slap the rets inside and a sisters squad (Or allied unit) on top.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and the Heavy Bolters are instead of your normal guns. So you would need two bodies without HB to fire them.
It seems like it could be strong, but then at the same time a MM Land Speeder, a podding anything, lance weapons, etc could potentially one-shot (or even 3 or 4 shot) a whole lot of stuff. (I'm ballparking close to 400pts for the Rets, the BSS, and the Bastion + Gun.)
I've used the Bastion in a few casual games. It's fairly durable and if you have troops with good armor saves (i.e. not my eldar pathfinders) even damage against the bastion is unlikely to kil them outright.
Casual fire against it seems to be fairly useless, but close combat finished it off real quick each time.
Amerikon wrote:What's your experience in-game with the Bastion?
It seems like it could be strong, but then at the same time a MM Land Speeder, a podding anything, lance weapons, etc could potentially one-shot (or even 3 or 4 shot) a whole lot of stuff. (I'm ballparking close to 400pts for the Rets, the BSS, and the Bastion + Gun.)
It's very tough, but it can be brought down - lascannons, melta, etc. tend to point it's way, especially if there are enemy flyers on the board. I specifically don't put my Rets in it, so that my opponent has to choose which fire base to shoot at, and so I don't lose 2/3 of my long range shooting to lucky lascannon shots. I decided on that approach after 3 lascannons brought the Bastion down turn one on my first game with it! But apart from the temptation to put too many eggs in that one basket (imho), it is a great durable backfield support unit that turns even one of your basic SoB squads into a fairly high output fire base/dedicated anti-air unit.
Yeah, I was just offering it as an option. The two extra HB is just reaaaallly tempting.
Right now, I am in LOVE with my aegis. I played a game on Sunday and that thing was worth it just for the 4+ cover saves. Also, dominions with flamers are freaking hilarious. Not only do they fry a lot of stuff but they rock on overwatch as well.
I have a question and I thought this would be a great thread to ask it in. I'm wondering between two different setups of guns in my BSS squads before I buy them. Either MM and flamer och Heavy Flamer and melta. Alternativly pure flamers vs pure meltas. Whataya think?
Padding the Ret Squad? Now with the way wound allocation is is anyone thinking of running a screen for your Rets with extra bodies? Im thinking of doing it since they will be behind the Defense line.
Gar'Ang wrote:I have a question and I thought this would be a great thread to ask it in. I'm wondering between two different setups of guns in my BSS squads before I buy them. Either MM and flamer och Heavy Flamer and melta. Alternativly pure flamers vs pure meltas. Whataya think?
It's kind of a personal preference thing. My only "rule" is that I never go pure in one direction or the other and I always take a combi-weapon on my VSS. After that it's a lot of what I have points for.
If you take a flamer and a melta you're at 185pts (w/ Rhino, of course)
If you take two meltas you're at 190pts
If you take a melta and a heavy flamer you're at 200pts
I've been taking the multi-melta more often in 6E since it can take snap shots when it moves. So flamer, multi-melta, combi-flamer is where I'm at right now. (It's no coincidence that this is the cheapest loadout either. I'm super stingy with points.) Flamer + combi-flamer also gives you a good chance at scoring a few kills on overwatch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spidey0804 wrote:Padding the Ret Squad? Now with the way wound allocation is is anyone thinking of running a screen for your Rets with extra bodies? Im thinking of doing it since they will be behind the Defense line.
I've always reflexively taken the min squad because they're so so cheap and I use the VSS as "meat". It's 145pts for a max squad, and some extra rending bolters could be pretty cool. Not to mention the fact that if you've got the VSS manning the Quad Gun you no longer have any expendables.
That could be a pretty good unit. Has anyone ever used a full Ret squad?
I used a full ret with Storm Bolter VSS once or twice. they work about as well as you would anticipate. I am not a fan, but that's because they require faith. Now that rends can't be pawned off on one guy, they work even better. I may end up trying them again.
Spidey0804 wrote:Padding the Ret Squad? Now with the way wound allocation is is anyone thinking of running a screen for your Rets with extra bodies? Im thinking of doing it since they will be behind the Defense line.
I've always reflexively taken the min squad because they're so so cheap and I use the VSS as "meat". It's 145pts for a max squad, and some extra rending bolters could be pretty cool. Not to mention the fact that if you've got the VSS manning the Quad Gun you no longer have any expendables.
That could be a pretty good unit. Has anyone ever used a full Ret squad?
I'm experimenting with taking a ret squad with 2 ablative wounds (3 if you count the VSS), attaching Kyrinov for fearless and the free similacrum, then sticking the unit behind an aegis line (Kyri runs the quad gun) within 6" of my guard blob(s depending on the number of objectives I either keep them separate units of 10, or merge them up). It has been working phenomenally for me thus far. Fearless guard with autocannons, camping an objective or two in the backfield has been quite solid. Support from Celestine, Seraphim, BSS, and dominions (as points allow) pushing forward to hold the mid-ground only sweetens the deal. I keep my CCS in their chimera between the two groups, able to issue orders to the guardsmen behind and scoot over to where-ever I need 3 plasma guns and an extra meltagun as the game develops.
As with everything, the context of the list really matters, but my mech/foot mix has been doing well in play-testing, so I plan to start hitting the tournament scene again soon and will have to see how it fairs.
Yeah, being able to include guard again really helped shore up the objective-management holes in pure sister's lists. I can leave ~300 points to camp on an objective or 2, while my other troops push forward - if they end up contesting or claiming other objectives, swell! If not, I have a large melta-presence in the middle of the field that tends to work out nicely
As long as I do not deploy like a fool, the mobility of everything allows for more than enough table coverage. Kill point games still require careful planning, but for objectives... if I place first it is a win. If my opponent places first I simply need to move my ladies up a bit more before it is usually a draw, (if not a win).
All that said, I am still depressed I cannot find a reliable way to get PEs to work in anything but fun games (I do realize that having them alive to soak fire is something, but I want my crazied drugged up machine-suited ladies to kill stuff darn it!)
If I post a detailed list tonight what are the chances I will be able to stir up more discussion than "yup, looks like a Sisters list with some guard in it?"
pretre wrote:lmao. Ahh, psychic saves. Wouldn't be too horrible to see an Errata in the next FAQ update
"Whoops! We forgot this paragraph:
All SoB units get a 5+ Deny the Witch save. Psykers attached to an SoB unit or nearby psychic hoods cannot modify the DtW save of an SoB unit."
or, if you really want to make psykers cry:
"Psykers attached to an SoB unit or nearby psychic hoods cannot modify the DtW save of an SoB unit. However, the DtW roll is modified by the following:
+1 if the unit is led by a superior or mistress
+1 if the unit is joined by an SoBIC +1 if the unit has taken at least 1 casualty."
pretre wrote:lmao. Ahh, psychic saves. Wouldn't be too horrible to see an Errata in the next FAQ update
"Whoops! We forgot this paragraph:
All SoB units get a 5+ Deny the Witch save. Psykers attached to an SoB unit or nearby psychic hoods cannot modify the DtW save of an SoB unit."
or, if you really want to make psykers cry:
"Psykers attached to an SoB unit or nearby psychic hoods cannot modify the DtW save of an SoB unit. However, the DtW roll is modified by the following:
+1 if the unit is led by a superior or mistress
+1 if the unit is joined by an SoBIC +1 if the unit has taken at least 1 casualty."
I like that. (obviously) I think it makes sense to have the faith mechanic work against psychic powers too. If we're getting stuff for free, I'd probably even be OK with having to spend faith points for that effect. That, of course, assumes that we'd get to save faith points to use in your opponent's turn.
Like most hardcore Sisters fans, i bought them, because the models were way too cool looking not to. Now when i did so, I did it knowing full well that they sucked, but hoped that one day something would happen to make them not suck.
Has anyone found something in sixth that i missed that might make these awesome models stop collecting dust on a shelf, or are they still waiting for their day?
I believe Spidey runs them a fair amount. They are nasty, but I find that their lack of an assault transport really hampers their ability.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amerikon wrote:I like that. (obviously) I think it makes sense to have the faith mechanic work against psychic powers too. If we're getting stuff for free, I'd probably even be OK with having to spend faith points for that effect. That, of course, assumes that we'd get to save faith points to use in your opponent's turn.
Just for lols, I forwarded it to Custserv to see if they'd send it to the devs. If it comes out in a couple months, you can thank me.
androcles138 wrote:So i had a question about Repentia...
Like most hardcore Sisters fans, i bought them, because the models were way too cool looking not to. Now when i did so, I did it knowing full well that they sucked, but hoped that one day something would happen to make them not suck.
Has anyone found something in sixth that i missed that might make these awesome models stop collecting dust on a shelf, or are they still waiting for their day?
Right now FAQs and WD updates are really our only hope. Both are supposed to rebalance the game and WD is supposed to start introducing new units for certain armies so that could mean some good things for the sisters as they need that sort of attention more then any other army save for Tyranids.
Repentia rock. You just have to practice with them. More than once I have had a squad decimate multiple terminator squads. The FnP that is not not canceled out by power weapons and the Mix armor can really save your girls in the early round.
Screening them is a must. If you dont they will disappear. I found that 8 man squads are really effective and you can ussally get 2 of them into your list. This is a whole bunch for hurt for anything that wants step over the Mid field line on me.
androcles138 wrote:So i had a question about Repentia...
Like most hardcore Sisters fans, i bought them, because the models were way too cool looking not to. Now when i did so, I did it knowing full well that they sucked, but hoped that one day something would happen to make them not suck.
Has anyone found something in sixth that i missed that might make these awesome models stop collecting dust on a shelf, or are they still waiting for their day?
I have found 2 things in 6th that I think improve them. First, Rage now gives +2A on charge INSTEAD of the ''must charge if fail ld-test'' rule wich means 4!!! attacks per Repentia on the charge! Nasty nasty if you ask me Second, the change in FNP so that ap 2 and 1 don't negate the FNP save, this makes the sisters immune to all cc weapons that isn't s6+ or ID, very neat
They took a big hit with survivability in my eyes, but make up for it by becoming more badass on the charge and easier to deliver them into said charge.
I haven't yet got the grasp of the new charging system. They feel slower to me than before but I know that I just have to get used to the way the new movement system is.
Shandara wrote:A 5+ FNP is hardly what I call immune.
They took a big hit with survivability in my eyes, but make up for it by becoming more badass on the charge and easier to deliver them into said charge.
Call me ignorant but why are they easier to get an assault with?
Gar'Ang wrote:They can reroll one of the charge dices thanks to Fleet
old fleet was better as it was 12''+1d6?
It is pretty much the same, I believe.
With fleet, average charge distance is somewhere closer to 10" assuming you you use fleet to reroll 1-3s - so it ends up being ~16", which is what the 12"+3.5 gets you.
The maximum is the same at 18", but the minimum dropped from 13" in 5th to 8" in 6th (granted, rolling double 1s twice in a row is very unlikely)
androcles138 wrote:So i had a question about Repentia...
Like most hardcore Sisters fans, i bought them, because the models were way too cool looking not to. Now when i did so, I did it knowing full well that they sucked, but hoped that one day something would happen to make them not suck.
Has anyone found something in sixth that i missed that might make these awesome models stop collecting dust on a shelf, or are they still waiting for their day?
Really they stopped sucking once the WD dropped, but folks were slow to notice. 6th basically killed what really helped them the most, which was being able to steal a transport. Getting them where they are going was always the problem with Repentia. Still, we have ways to keep them safe until they get within charge range.
-Run them up alongside or behind a vehicle, blocking LoS from all those small arms that want to shoot them.
- Run them behind a tougher unit that soaks up fire - Seraphim are good because they are fast enough that they don't ruin the Repentia's fleet, and they have a good save. Add Celestine at the front for an all around 2+ save.
- Run them in a stolen transport, I guess, if you can figure out a way to make it work in 6th.
- Have them behind an Aegis Defense or a backfield vehicle as a scary, scary counter charge unit.
Also, always run large squads. If your opponent kills 4 repentia before they swing, that leaves a min squad with a total of 4 swings back. Even if they win, nobody but a vehicle worries about 1 Repentia on the charge.
On the other hand, if they kill 4 Repentia out of a squad of 10, that leaves you with 20 swings back, which will wipe out nearly anything and leave a very scary unit they need to worry about.
The mistress is good for putting up front to soak wounds with 3+/FnP until she dies.
However, If someone brings a lot of ordinance, I don't know what to tell you.
My big question for SoB is where do I go from here?
saint celestine
1x canoness with chainsword and inferno pistol
1x Hospitaller
9x sisters repentia
1x Mistress of Repentance
4 Sisters Superior
39x battle sisters with bolters
3x battle sisters with flamers
2x sisters with meltaguns
3x battle sisters with storm bolters
1x Seraphim Sister Superior
3x seraphim
2x seraphim with flamer
1x Penitent Engine
1x immolator ( with 2 meltas, 2 heavy bolters, and 1 heavy flamer. exchangeable)
1x old school immolator with flamers (could easily do counts as melta)
1x Rhino
1x conversion exorcist (Once a Whirlwind but not for long)
1x Inquisitor with Inferno Pistol & Power Sword
1x Missionary with Plasma Gun
4x crusader
6x death cult assassin
Not a bad lot of total assets but the question is where to go from here? I can currently run three kitted standard squads and a dominican squad without much issue and at maximum value I can run a very crunchy conclave centered on "Uriah Jacobus" for who I use the Inquisitor in the above list as a counts as for. (More because I prefer the model to Uriah then anything else). I'm very open to suggestions list wise as well as potential "next steps" acquisition wise as I'm a complete boot with my girls and figure I have plenty of time to get the paper part ready with them.
So you would need to buy or convert the following:
Aegis Defense Line
Meltagun (Convert from Storm Bolter)
3 Multimeltas (Buy)
Flamer (Convert from Storm Bolter)
Superior (Convert from Canoness, just remove Inferno Pistol and replace with BP or Bolter)
Exorcist
2 Rhinos
Alternatively, you can use the extra bodies to do foot sisters, but I really don't like them as much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: With lucky trades/buys, you could pick up another whirlwind and a couple rhinos pretty cheap. The multi-meltas are a pain in the ass. You can either buy them or try to convert them using immolator bits and girls, but those end up looking pretty bad. Storm bolters to special weapons are a pretty easy conversion. I know a couple of regulars in this thread have done it.
I might pick up a couple more seraphim to buff out your Sera squad as well.
streamdragon wrote:Curious, why do you not like foot sisters as much?
My last game I used 2 units of 20 sisters and they can lay down some hellish firepower.
Because that unit of 20 costs a minimum of 245 for 18 bolters and 2 specials. Compared to the other nasty things we can get in our list that is just point inefficiency. In my experience, our troop slot is a tax that we take to get to all the good bits that win us games. Don't get me wrong, I love BSS, but they are not good at anything in particular. Foot sisters have not been my cup of tea since 3rd edition and the height of Redemptionist screen shenanigans. Back then, I ran a lot of foot behind them since no one was ever stupid enough to get near the sisters until all the Reds were dead (which took a bit of work).
For a second, let's imagine that we are laying down our firepower at something within 12". They are going to chew it up pretty bad.
40 Bolters, 80/3 hit, reroll with faith 320/9 total hits. Toughness 4? 320/18 wound. 17 Wounds. Assuming MEQ, that's ~6 dead. (320/54)
I dunno, I may be biased but that just doesn't seem impressive for the points outlay. For the same points as a 20 squad of sisters, I can get a 10 squad of sisters, rhino and retributor squad. Or 10 sisters/rhino and be well on my way to a dominion squad.
Why would you bubble wrap Repentia and DCA with sisters? If you're looking for bubble wrap, go with guard allies or reverse it so the repentia/dca are protecting the sisters.
250+ points for one bubble wrap squad that folds the first time it gets charged is not a good plan. (Unless you meant Kyrinov.)
Because what I have learn is that its easier to make a 3+ 5+FNP than it is to make a 6++ 5+FNP
Automatically Appended Next Post: I want as many of the Repentia and DCA making it there so taking casualties on a unit that has better armor than that just makes for better odds that more of the hard hitter will get there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW this would be backed by 2 BSS in rhinos, 2 Exors and Ret squad behind a ADL.
Right, I understand they are more durable, but it is like using Terminators to bubble wrap tactical squads. You want something less durable and cheaper for bubble wrap.
Not to mention that people can still fire at your DCA/Repentia who get a 5+ from cover / 5+ FNP now and still go down like chumps.
Repentia still only get a 5+ Cover / 5+ FNP. The crusaders get their 3+/5+FNP, DCA get 5+/5+. Not to mention the whole enterprise seems a bit complicated just to deliver your assault unit unto the enemy.
I mean, if it works, don't let me stop you. I just try to keep it simpler.
I used chopped up plaspistols for combiplas. trim down the foregrip on the bolter, and they fit nicely underneath.
I'm using sisters as allies for my guard (counts as heavy-infantry. human statlines), and so far I'm loving SSBs, especially retributors, and uriah conclaves.
I'm planning to try out quad-flamer outflanking dominions, coming in with a cannonness, in this setup:
Remember I'm the boot on this channel but from what I understand for Sister tactics, drop the dominions down to 6, stick'em in a immolator. You now have a bunch of extra light stuff on fire potential.
I'm glad the Aegis is so damn cheap, it really is starting to become an auto include for IG/SoB and several other armies, especially if you don't have AAA, or your AAA is forge world only and costs as much as a full kitted retributor squad.
So here's my shopping list:
1x flamer
1x melta
3x multimelta
2-3x Sister Superiors (always better to have more squad leaders)
4x HB sisters
2x Seraphim
And a few more bolter girls to make sure all the slots are filled in
2x Rhinos
1x Exorcist
Just over $300 new from GW. and some of it will almost certainly have to be.
That and about $150 left to get my Guard to my desired point value, not bad not bad.
5 Doms in Immolator or 10 in Rhino. Right now, Rhino may win out due to overwatch out the top. Stay tuned for battle reports over the coming months. Personally, I prefer the MM Immo for the first turn tank pop.
pretre wrote:I would skip the canoness. If you're going to keep her though and want the plasma, go for dual pistols, drop the power swords.
I need something as an HQ, and canoness seems to be the cheapest, and none of the other HQs mesh with the rest of my list (MSU footguard with plasguns and russes). So she either outflanks with the dominions, or sits back with the rest of my army in a SSB squad or something.
I really like the quad flamers, so Immolator is out. I might try them in a rhino, just to get that extra 6inches of movement from outflank.
Maybe Seraphim with hand flamers would be a better way to go.
pretre wrote:I would skip the canoness. If you're going to keep her though and want the plasma, go for dual pistols, drop the power swords.
I need something as an HQ, and canoness seems to be the cheapest, and none of the other HQs mesh with the rest of my list (MSU footguard with plasguns and russes). So she either outflanks with the dominions, or sits back with the rest of my army in a SSB squad or something.
The Canoness might be the cheapest HQ, but she's still a waste of points. You're spending 90pts on a model that, basically does nothing. You could spend the same amount and get Kyrinov who "sits back with the rest of [your] army" way better than a Canoness would. You could spend 25pts more and get St Celestine, who might not provide synergy with your army, but paying 115pts for something is a lot better than paying 90pts for nothing.
I might sound a bit over the top here, but the Canoness really is that bad.
Yeah, the more I look at her, the less I like her.
I've used Celestine a few times, and she's either really awesome, or stays dead for most of the game. Krynov might be a good choice, but I like to run my infantry around, and theyd quickly be out of fearless range.
Another question is what should I use for firey deliverance? Outflanking dominions with 4 twin-linked flamers, or 10 Seraphim with 4 twin-linked handflamers (and possibly celestine)
Celestine is pretty much always great. Keep in mind that Kyrinov's bubble is 6" from the vehicle if he is embarked. It makes for a hard to shift objective holding position.
McGibs wrote:Krynov might be a good choice, but I like to run my infantry around, and theyd quickly be out of fearless range.
In that case just put him with whatever squad you want to keep fearless. It's not the optimal use for him, but it's still something.
McGibs wrote:Another question is what should I use for firey deliverance? Outflanking dominions with 4 twin-linked flamers, or 10 Seraphim with 4 twin-linked handflamers (and possibly celestine)
The raw performance of the two units is very similar. With squads of 10, the disadvantage of having S3 vs S4 is partially offset by the four extra bolter shots the Seraphim get. Interestingly, if you take into account the natural re-roll that Seras get for their AoF, the average case of each unit firing against T4 (assuming 5 hits per template) is the same: 17 wounds. The advantage that Seras have beyond this is that they're faster than Dominions (especially now that you can only move 6" and disembark) and they can assault whatever they just shot. Their disadvantage is that they're foot troops and are exposed to enemy fire.
The solution to that problem is St Celestine. With her 2+ save, she catches bullets like a champ. She also makes the Seras fearless and gives them a boost to their Hit and Run and their AoF. (Adding Celestine makes the average case vs T4 a whopping 22 wounds.) Fearless is a really big deal as you can now charge them into combat without worrying about getting an unlucky Ld test. That lets you use CC to shield them from shooting in your opponent's turn and then your 85% chance to Hit and Run will free you to act on your turn. It can also let you bypass the enemy's front lines and let you jump into their backfield, where they might not want you to be.
I've been the lone voice for Seraphim since the WD list came out, but I think the way Celestine buffs them under the new rules, they're practically an auto-include now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and to anyone using Seraphim, don't forget to throw a Frag Grenade!
I am running Celestine and Seraphim now that we moved to 6th after your recommendation, Amerikon. I'll let you know how it goes when I hit up a tournament next month.
I think a decent balance is achieved with Doms and Seras in the same list. Again grain of salt from lack of experience but dominions seem to shine when set up as tank hunters, especially when Immo mounted. That's a lot of toy breaking you can do and will certainly make vehicle heavy armies nervous.
Seraphs with or without Celestine make excellent grunt hunters.
Using both efficiently with BSSs mopping up with ranged bolter fire and exorcist support is a strong combat tactic.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:I think a decent balance is achieved with Doms and Seras in the same list. Again grain of salt from lack of experience but dominions seem to shine when set up as tank hunters, especially when Immo mounted. That's a lot of toy breaking you can do and will certainly make vehicle heavy armies nervous.
Seraphs with or without Celestine make excellent grunt hunters.
Using both efficiently with BSSs mopping up with ranged bolter fire and exorcist support is a strong combat tactic.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't arguing Seraphim above all else. The 5E convention was to make lists with 3 Dominion squads. When I say that Seras are practically an auto-include, I mean a single unit of Seras. I'm very strongly in favor of using a full Seraphim squad in tandem with tank hunting Dominions and I think your observations above are correct. I'd also add that thanks to the new rules, Seras can pop most vehicles as well.
As I'm running SoB as allies, I can only take one FA slot, so its either Doms or Seras. I've got enough big smashy tanks for vehicle killing, so the flamer seras are looking more appealing.
pretre wrote:I am running Celestine and Seraphim now that we moved to 6th after your recommendation, Amerikon. I'll let you know how it goes when I hit up a tournament next month.
Glad to be of service!
Shifting gears....
Something I'm interested in trying out is un-meching our troops. Looking over the missions (and I think this may have come up before), there's really only one mission where troops are needed to take objectives (Crusade). In the others, you either get help from FA and HS, or you only have to contend with single objectives. I've always been of the mind that our Troops were relatively poor choices compared to the rest of the army, so why not take the next step and completely minimize them? For the price of those two Rhinos they're barely using, you can almost get a MM Immo.
I'm going to try out foot troops and two max-size Retributor squads tonight and let y'all know how it goes.
You're running IG right? I'm in the same boat. Doms or Seraphs can easily give you something more but to note it is something that our own lists provide plenty of. I will say I think I prefer tank hunting Doms over Tank hunting MeltaVets. If you're running an armored regiment vs a mechanized force (I do anvil/hammer, as my above remarks suggest I like a combined arms approach) supplementing Anti-Infantry or Anti-Armor won't hurt at all and both Sisters units are lethally efficient in their roles
Edit:
Amerikon looking forward to seeing how your experiment turns out. Foot slogging sisters would be an interesting switch for an army that if any one knows about the SoB they know they're mechanized 98% of the time, be nice to be able to pull a switch on someone.
On a bits note, snagged a set of new forgeworld SoB rhino doors/front off ebay for just under list price shipped. Saved $8 or so I suppose
Gar'Ang wrote:I have another question, what do you guys use for combiweapon superiors?
Btw, I convert my meltas and flamers from bolters using pipes and Green stuff
For Combi-Flamers, I have purchased several of the old Canoness model that has a Combi-Flamer (Incidentally, the other hand she's holding up is great for tons of bits including: the Ecclesiarchy symbol she comes with, the book and scroll from the newer Canoness bits, and a sword just to name a few)
For Combi-Meltas and Combi-Plasma I use a few different posed Sisters with the Combi weapons from the Space Marine Commander Box.
Woooo getting some more sisters from a guy I got my army off of. So some more of the special weapons I need, also found a guy selling a Retributor squad with HB... so this might work out nicely for me.
I really like the idea of the Repentia setting in to a Aegis fortification somewhere and providing 8 barrels of death (counting the autocannon turret) to help shore up the BSSs and the Dominions tank busting.
McGibs wrote:As I'm running SoB as allies, I can only take one FA slot, so its either Doms or Seras. I've got enough big smashy tanks for vehicle killing, so the flamer seras are looking more appealing.
Twin-linked multi-meltas are pretty good, Scouts makes them even better. Going first, they can often neutralize a priority target. Outflanking can also be effective. Their AoF makes flamers in particular work very well. Two flamers and a combi-flamer can often take out fairly hard targets. Melta guns are useful as well. One squad alone won't be long for this world, but there's not much to be done about that.
A big Seraphim squad with Celestine can dish out some serious infantry-hurt. Their AoF makes all those pistol shots and flamer hits brutally effective. They can wipe large MEQ units in a turn. The trouble is, there are a fair few units out there that can do the same to them.
Ebay is really the best for getting sisters. They strip easily, and for a while at least they were dirt cheap, although prices have certainly gone up since the WD codex came out. Just be patient and wait for deals. I've accumulated about 3500 points worth of sisters from ebay with some fantastic deals.
Also, if you really want heavy bolter sisters, why not use the immolator HBs? They're already sisters-themed, have ammo cans so they won't need backpacks, and you've already got tons you're never going to use.
I've gotten some insane deals on sisters, my army was $400 all together shipped counting paint (give or take) and all told it was just shy of $1000 worth of sisters. They all need some serious stripping for the most part (some had a weird punk rock theme...) but the deals are out there. Dakka's swap shop has also been a positive experience for me.
That number includes various extra bits I've purchased here and there like the Sanguinary guard jump packs that will be going on my Seraphim (am I the only one who thinks it's flat wrong for a unit named after a choir of angels to not have wings?)
KalashnikovMarine wrote:I've gotten some insane deals on sisters, my army was $400 all together shipped counting paint (give or take) and all told it was just shy of $1000 worth of sisters. They all need some serious stripping for the most part (some had a weird punk rock theme...) but the deals are out there. Dakka's swap shop has also been a positive experience for me.
That number includes various extra bits I've purchased here and there like the Sanguinary guard jump packs that will be going on my Seraphim (am I the only one who thinks it's flat wrong for a unit named after a choir of angels to not have wings?)
I hear you on that. I worked on some winged sisters jump packs in CAD a while back, along with a few combi-weapon type things, and even got some 3D printed with intent to cast them. That hasn't panned out so far really, but I have the masters sitting around somewhere if I ever do get the time to do it.
That would be epic! Hope you have a chance to get it done at some point.
Edit:
and after many, many hours of painting I have my first Sister done and gloss sealed despite a /minor/ mistake... forgot an ink wash before I sealed her ^^; got two more to final touch ups, ink wash and the big hold up skin, and got a sister superior to a point where I need to start painting gold... but the Auric Armor gold I got the other day is complete gak. So it's off to the FLGS tomorrow for more paint... and hopefully a round or two with my IG.
pretre wrote:I am running Celestine and Seraphim now that we moved to 6th after your recommendation, Amerikon. I'll let you know how it goes when I hit up a tournament next month.
Glad to be of service!
Shifting gears....
Something I'm interested in trying out is un-meching our troops. Looking over the missions (and I think this may have come up before), there's really only one mission where troops are needed to take objectives (Crusade). In the others, you either get help from FA and HS, or you only have to contend with single objectives. I've always been of the mind that our Troops were relatively poor choices compared to the rest of the army, so why not take the next step and completely minimize them? For the price of those two Rhinos they're barely using, you can almost get a MM Immo.
I'm going to try out foot troops and two max-size Retributor squads tonight and let y'all know how it goes.
Sounds good, cant wait to hear what you come up with.
FAST
5x Dominions w/ 2x meltaguns, VSS w/ combi-flamer, MM Immolator
5x Dominions w/ 2x meltaguns, VSS w/ combi-flamer, MM Immolator
10x Seraphim w/ 2x hand flamers, VSS w/ meltabombs
HEAVY
Exorcist
10x Retributors w/ 4x Heavy Bolters
10x Retributors w/ 4x Heavy Bolters
FORTIFICATIONS
Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun
His List:
Spoiler:
HQ Librarian in Power Armor (Shield, Sword)
Company Command Squad: 4x Plasmagun, Astropath, Officer of the Fleet
in Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer
TROOPS
Assault Squad (5) with Meltagun, Sergeant with Melta Bombs
in Razorback with T/L Heavy Flamer
Assault Squad (5) with Meltagun, Sergeant with Melta Bombs
in Razorback with T/L Heavy Flamer
Veteran Squad with 3x Meltagun
in Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer
Veteran Squad with 3x Meltagun
in Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer
FAST ATTACK
Vendetta
Land Speeder with 2xMultimelta
HEAVY
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Hydra with Heavy Bolter
The Turn-by-turn:
Spoiler:
DEPLOYMENT
I put my two objective behind my ADL and then just set up a firing line. BSS on each objective with the two Ret units between them and the Exorcist in the back. I put my Dominions all the way to the left outside my line so they could Scout up and give him something to worry about. My Seras were held behind the firing line since I didn't want them to be in Demolisher range on Turn 1.
He put down a parking lot. Vindicators out front covering his Razorbacks and Chimeras. One of the Chimeras were empty b/c their meltavets were coming in on the Vendetta.
TURN 1
Being mostly foot, I knew the Vindicators were my biggest threat. He had first turn and blew up one Immolator and shook the other with a single Demolisher round. I had a rough first turn shooting. It was night fighting and his Librarian used Shield of Sanguinius to give most of his army 3+ or 4+ cover. I think I took a couple of hull points from a Razorback and a couple off of the Vindy that popped my Immos.
TURN 2
He had his Land Speeder deep strike behind my lines, right on my Exorcist. The Vendetta came in and I tried to use my Quad gun to "intercept" it, but I whiffed. He moved up with everything. The CCS plasma'd one of the Dominion squads to death. One Vindy dropped a shell on my Seraphim and got 6 wounds. Celestine shrugged off the first hit but fell to the second and 2 or 3 Seras failed their SoF saves. I don't remember what the other one did. I think it killed a couple of models from the other Dominion squad. His Speeder had no trouble with my Exorcist.
Shooting was a little better this turn. My surviving Immo blew up his CCS's Chimera and the last Dominion melta took the last HP from his first Vindicator. I set up my Seraphim to unload on his Librarian (and friends) if I could pop their Immolator. My first Rets got their act off but failed to get a single glance or pen. The second unit of Rets had more luck and got 4 glances, wrecking the Razorback. I think my BSS multi-melta popped his other Razorback as well.
TURN 3
At this point he was in a tough situation. He had his two troops that were going for my objectives out in the open and one was down to a single man (thanks to the Seraphim). He brought up the intact squad, just inside my ADL and tried to hide them. He used the Vindicator to tank shock my middle Retributor squad and they broke! Thankfully the Demolisher shell he dropped on them scattered away. The CCS destroyed my last Immolator and something happened with his Meltavets and their Chimera but I don't remember what. I lost my Quad Gun to the Vendetta (who had dropped a meltavet squad on one of his objectives) and the Land Speeder.
Celestine came back to life and went to murder his Librarian. The five remaining Seras went after a Chimera. The broken Retributors rallied and then wiped out his remaining Assault Squad (the one that was hiding from my BSS). Considering that they were shooting snap shots I'll admit that I got pretty lucky.
TURN 4
We were running a little low on time so we decided this would be the last turn.
There wasn't too much left he could do. The Vindicator tank shocked the Rets and they broke again! This time the shell was on target and the subsequent break check forced them off the table. The Vendetta killed Celestine and some meltavets that I'd blown out of a Chimera consolidated his other objective.
Celestine stayed dead. The Seraphim were able to get into his DZ and wipe out the 4 meltavets holding one of the objectives. That was the end of the game. He had an objective and got two more VPs for First Blood and Slay the Warlord. I had two objectives and two more VPs for Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord.
FINAL SCORE
Sisters 8, Blood Guard 5
I had three big takeaways from this game.
1) Non-assault transport vehicles are completely non-threatening. Knowing that I was safe the following turn completely neutralized the threat of having his assault squads up in my front lines.
2) Vehicles not being able to contest objectives is HUGE. At the end of the game he had a Vindicator, a Vendetta, and a Land Speeder in my DZ. In 5th, this would have been disastrous. In this game, I was largely able to just ignore those vehicles and concentrate on the targets I was really concerned with.
3) I'm not usually big on the whole "meta" thing, but I think this army breaks the meta a bit. Once my Quad Gun and Vehicles were dead, my opponent had very little that could threaten my troops. I think armies with less melta and a lot of mid strength shooting would be more dangerous. I'm also concerned about Dark Eldar and Orks who can assault out of their vehicles. The Daemon "Flying Circus" army I played against on Sunday would also probably be problematic and I have yet to face any of the 6E death star lists.
We'll see how it goes, but I think this is going to be the army I'll use at the Golden Throne this weekend. At the very least it's a change of pace and it'll be fun to play a different style in an event that I don't expect to win.
Had a pretty good match against SM tonight with my IG, we had to call it at the top of turn three due to the store closing and me wanting to make the late movie with some mates, so it came out a flat draw. Kill points game and we each finished off one squad. I whittled the hell out of his squads though. Saw a couple places where I really wish I'd had Sisters instead of my guard. Also ran in to a couple places where I was wishing flame based weapons worked like they do in the real world so I could clear his fething troops out of the damn building he occupied.
Side note, can a Thunderfire cannon be placed upstairs in a multi story building? Can it even go inside?
Getting some more sisters shortly, though one issue with them is that seven are missing packs, the seller is sending them with seven SM backpacks, so I think what I'll do is I'll pass the SM packs out amongst my Sister Superiors and leave four or so for a dedicated Celestine squad.
Edit: Also rather important my FLGS store owner said we should keep our eyes peeled 4th Quarter 2013, that rumblings high up the supply chain had been heard regarding plastic sisters. No idea how accurate that is... but it's hope isn't it?
I would jump for perverbral joy when plastic sisters come out. Always wanted them hopefully with better sculpts. Prior female models never lookd good to me. Helmets were a requirement XD
I got my repentia squads all set up already though so I'll be good for a while. Really been loving the repentia. Feels like I'm using an ork mob with how many dice I'm rolling now a days
Serious question: Which Warlord table do you choose to roll on and for which Warlord for Sisters and why?
For me, I choose the Personal Traits table for St. Celestine. Almost all of those rolls are good for her and a unit of Seraphim to share, particularly numbers 4, 5, and 6. 3 is arguably the least useful for St. Celestine as she can already Deepstrike, and 1 & 2 are definitely more situational, but still not bad.
For Jacobus, I generally choose the Command Traits table as I see him and either the Conclave and/or Sisters near him getting more use out of those traits than either the Personal or Strategic. That being said, I could see taking the Strategic depending more on the situation at hand and what type of list I'm running that day. With him already granting FnP to his unit, and not being very kill-y on his own, I would never choose Personal for Jacobus.
For Kyrinov, I generally choose the Strategic Traits table. With Kyrinov's abilities, he already acts similarly to some of the Command Traits that could be rolled. Some of the Personal Traits could be useful for Kyrinov and a 20 woman BSS or just a Conclave. Again, Kyrinov's role in the particular list I'm running him in would dictate more of which trait table I'd choose to roll on.
I've been mixing it up. Right now, I've been going with Celestine, since Jacobus is generally prioritized by my enemy and dies. If I go to a support roll for Jacobus, I'll probably swap it out.
I haven't gotten a feel for which one I like best yet. It has been a toss up between Command and Personal.
On that note, does that work? Ive heard that if you wipe a unit of crons and it comes back you still get the first blood point. Would celestine be the same way (assuming that what I've heard is true)
As the Daughters get ready for NOVA I have been throwing around some ideas. After reviewing alot of the missions are Table quarters or Objectives. What I'm currently considering is a huge BSS squad 20 girls and 2 10 man squads in decked out rhinos. Double Exorcist and a Retributor squad manning a Quad gun. Triple Dominion squads, 2 small melta ones in Immolators and a full squad quad flamers in a decked out rhino. Uriah and A big Repentia squad or Battle conclave escorting the large BSS squad.
Would love to hear some feed back on the idea. Ill be working the list up later tonight.
The problem with big BSS is the point investment versus killy-ness. You can't afford to sink that many points into a unit that pretty much only has bolters.
pretre wrote:What USR are you hoping to get on your BSS?
The problem with big BSS is the point investment versus killy-ness. You can't afford to sink that many points into a unit that pretty much only has bolters.
I'd like to see them gain some more abilities, maybe something based on some army building factor. Such as getting better CC abilities if teamed up with a preacher. This is just me but I'd like to see a dichotomy develop between the Sisters and secondary Ecclesiastes. I'd like to see a large number of support IC's become part of the Sister's army identity and what IC is attached to a BSS change up the unit a little.
I'm wondering how a large BSS squad attached to a Lord Commissar would do. The guard ICs and specials have some rules that would probably do some really nasty things with battle sister blobs.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote:I tihnk with most USR spreading to the units now, I might actually run big BSS
The problem with big BSS is the point investment versus killy-ness. You can't afford to sink that many points into a unit that pretty much only has bolters.
Maybe I'm not getting it, but I don't understand what a single unit of 20 Sisters would do better than two units of 10. It's not like with Marines where you get free guns when you max out the unit. And you also don't get to add more special weapons when you get a full 20 women. Just buy two squads and run them next to each other. If you want them to be Fearless, use Kyrinov since he has a bubble instead of just the USR.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:I'm wondering how a large BSS squad attached to a Lord Commissar would do. The guard ICs and specials have some rules that would probably do some really nasty things with battle sister blobs.
Most guard rules don't work on allies. Check the FAQ.
it just says orders here so a Lord Commissar's granting of Stubborn and "Aura of Discipline" (attached unit takes LD tests at the Lord Commissar's LD of 10) should still work.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:I'm wondering how a large BSS squad attached to a Lord Commissar would do. The guard ICs and specials have some rules that would probably do some really nasty things with battle sister blobs.
Not much, and not really any better than an IG blob.
it just says orders here so a Lord Commissar's granting of Stubborn and "Aura of Discipline" (attached unit takes LD tests at the Lord Commissar's LD of 10) should still work.
And that Lord Commissar is better than either Jacobus or Kyrinov for the Sisters how? Maybe back in 5th one could argue the LC was slightly better for Sisters blobs (although not an option) but for 6th, Kyrinov with his Fearless bubble is strictly better. And Jacobus for FnP alone is as well. The LC just doesn't bring anything to the table, that I see, that would really benefit the Sisters. Maybe a Powerfist? But we can have Eviscerators in spades... His ld or aura? Kyrinov's aura is better and we already have near army-wide ld 9 and have our own options for ld 10 if we want it. I'm not saying don't take the LC if you really want to, I am just questioning his usefulness to Sisters.
On another note, I guess pretre and I are the only SoB players using Warlord Traits? The rest of you just not playing 6th or just not using Warlord Traits? With the CSM rumors, it seems that the traits are going to have to be used, so might as well discuss them.
Fast Attack: Dominion Squad (10)
Dominion Squad Simulacrum Imperialis; Flamer (x4);
Dominion Superior Melta Bombs; Power Weapon (x1); Plasma Pistol (x1)
Rhino Searchlight; Dozer Blade; Storm Bolter(x2);
Heavy Support: Exorcist Searchlight; Dozer Blade;
Heavy Support: Exorcist Searchlight; Dozer Blade;
Heavy Support: Retributor Squad (5)
Retributor Squad 4 Heavy Bolter (x4);
Retributor Superior Storm Bolter (x1)
: Aegis Defence Lines
Quad gun Enplacment
Total Cost: 1997
Kill Points 16
Model Count: 75
The 20 man squad has both Uriah and Kyrnov in it. It be comes a 500pnt mass I can shove into a table quarter that has 70 attacks with re-rolls. fearless , stubborn, FnP, +1 Attacks Faith powers go off on a 3+ and that is rerollable, Scoring Unit. (LOL just imagine if this Unit get outflanking or something like that LOL) Im really looking at that element to being nothing more than completely intimidating /underestimating unit. If they are wasting shots into it that means they aren't shooting something else. Plus even at half strength Pnts the unit is still over 200 pnts. The threat of them jumping into a quarter late could be the difference of taking the quarter or not.
Flamer Doms are in the deployment zone Turn 1 after a 12 scout and a 18 flat out. Melta Doms bust open stuff while flamer doms do the clean up.
Rets just hang in back at the fire base with the Exorcists that now have a FA 13 4+ cover, these are my Anti-Terminator units. The Retributor Superior is going to be hanging on to the gun for fun.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:On another note, I guess pretre and I are the only SoB players using Warlord Traits? The rest of you just not playing 6th or just not using Warlord Traits? With the CSM rumors, it seems that the traits are going to have to be used, so might as well discuss them.
Okay, here's my breakdown of traits for SoB lists using common builds (I'll also list if I used it yet):
Command
Inspiring Presence - Meh, great if you have IG allies, but our Leadership is good anyways. If it transferred fearless, it would be godly.
Intimidating Presence - Kinda nice for Celestine, since she is up in their faces.
The Dust oaTW - Good for Celestine, no more DT tests
Master otV - Meh
Target Priority - Awesome for Objective games.
Coordinated Assault - I get this every time I roll on Command. Celestine likey.
Personal
Master of D - Good for Uriah, but not so much for Celestine.
MoO - Okay, for Celestine, better for her squad. Great for Uriah if you are using the Battle Conclave aggressively.
MoM - Meh. We already have deep strike and outflank where we want it.
LF - Great for Celestine. She does well in challenges.
Tenacity - FNP? Don't mind if I do! Great for Celestine, great for Kyrinov if you put him with a squad on your back objective.
Immovable - GREAT for Celestine. Meh for Uriah/Kyrinov.
Strategic
CoC - Depends on board. Goes from YAY to meh.
Night Attacker - Good, but not great
MoA - Meh, good if you like outflanking, I guess.
SG - Meh, we dont' do a lot of reserves
DtC - Meh. Okay, depending on Opponent
PoD - We already have a lot of scouts, so this is meh.
So breakdown. Avoid Strategic. Yuck.
If you play Celestine/Aggressive Uriah, Command has one bad roll, two if you have a non-objective game. Personal has 2 bad roll, 3 if you have a non objective game. Command is better if your opponent is non-fearless. Personal is better if your opponent has a lot of little characters.
Home base HQ? Tougher since more of the results on Command and Personal aren't going to work for you. Personal probably has a little edge on less bad things, but Command has better rolls.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spidey0804 wrote:This is what I came up with
The 20 man squad has both Uriah and Kyrnov in it. It be comes a 500pnt mass I can shove into a table quarter that has 70 attacks with re-rolls. fearless , stubborn, FnP, +1 Attacks Faith powers go off on a 3+ and that is rerollable, Scoring Unit. (LOL just imagine if this Unit get outflanking or something like that LOL) Im really looking at that element to being nothing more than completely intimidating /underestimating unit. If they are wasting shots into it that means they aren't shooting something else. Plus even at half strength Pnts the unit is still over 200 pnts. The threat of them jumping into a quarter late could be the difference of taking the quarter or not.
Flamer Doms are in the deployment zone Turn 1 after a 12 scout and a 18 flat out. Melta Doms bust open stuff while flamer doms do the clean up.
Rets just hang in back at the fire base with the Exorcists that now have a FA 13 4+ cover, these are my Anti-Terminator units. The Retributor Superior is going to be hanging on to the gun for fun.
The problem is, think of what else your opponent will be dropping on you at 2000 points in 6th edition. a 500 points scoring unit is not going to impress them. Between that and the crazy amount of upgrades on some of your units, you could bring 1-2 more units (repentia or BC).
We differ on opinion on a couple bits of SOB tactics, but I still think you could do better.
Fast Attack: Dominion Squad (10)
Dominion Squad Simulacrum Imperialis; Flamer (x4);
Dominion Superior Melta Bombs; Power Weapon (x1); Plasma Pistol (x1)
Rhino Searchlight; Dozer Blade; Storm Bolter(x2);
Heavy Support: Exorcist Searchlight; Dozer Blade;
Heavy Support: Exorcist Searchlight; Dozer Blade;
Heavy Support: Retributor Squad (5)
Retributor Squad 4 Heavy Bolter (x4);
Retributor Superior Storm Bolter (x1)
: Aegis Defence Lines
Quad gun Enplacment
Total Cost: 1997
Kill Points 16
Model Count: 75
The 20 man squad has both Uriah and Kyrnov in it. It be comes a 500pnt mass I can shove into a table quarter that has 70 attacks with re-rolls. fearless , stubborn, FnP, +1 Attacks Faith powers go off on a 3+ and that is rerollable, Scoring Unit. (LOL just imagine if this Unit get outflanking or something like that LOL) Im really looking at that element to being nothing more than completely intimidating /underestimating unit. If they are wasting shots into it that means they aren't shooting something else. Plus even at half strength Pnts the unit is still over 200 pnts. The threat of them jumping into a quarter late could be the difference of taking the quarter or not.
Flamer Doms are in the deployment zone Turn 1 after a 12 scout and a 18 flat out. Melta Doms bust open stuff while flamer doms do the clean up.
Rets just hang in back at the fire base with the Exorcists that now have a FA 13 4+ cover, these are my Anti-Terminator units. The Retributor Superior is going to be hanging on to the gun for fun.
Ok, here's what I like about this list first. I like the Blob of Doom(tm). I have used blobs for pretty much this same reason without both SC attached and it works fairly well. Some opponents just don't like it and will devote almost an entire army's worth of shooting at it for little effect. I like the Aegis Defense line and what you're going to be doing with it. The composition of the list itself is also good IMO.
Now for what I don't like as much. Lack of St. Celestine, but I don't think you really need her in this kind of list. The MG on the Blob of Doom(tm). I'd rather see a MM there. Reasons being that they are the same points, the MM has further range, how much moving around is this squad going to be doing until towards the end of the game, and even if moving the MM can still be fired. Just some food for thought on the MM/MG thing. I'm pretty sure I know why you did it, but I still do not like that power weapon on the SS of the blob. I'd rather see either a Combi-weapon or another Plasma Pistol. You would get more use out of either IMO than that single S3 PW, even with 5 attacks on the charge.
Your 10 woman BSS. I can't really see what the Storm Bolters are bringing that your particularly want, especially with Rapid Fire being able to single tap out to 24" on Bolters anyway. I'd rather see MG/Combi-weapon, or even if you still want to keep it somewhat cheap, a Flamer. Storm Bolters lost some of their punch compared to Rapid Fire weapons with 6th, and what advantages they still do have, we don't particularly want or care about (read: assault). Another different special weapon here would serve you much better for the points and damage output of the squad. You also really like upgrades for your Rhinos. With the "extra" upgrades you have on your Rhinos, you could take another Rhino each. I would not take the Dozer blades, extra SB, nor HK missile. With those savings, you could buy some of the proposed upgrades I've said already, or buy extra bodies for your Rets, or buy a Repentia squad, or buy a MM Immolator for either your Rets or the blob. Don't forget that our Rhinos have self-repair now, so even on the off chance you do get immobilized by DT, you can still attempt to fix it for free. The only thing I'd keep on the Rhinos are the Searchlights. And if that doesn't make you think, maybe this will: You are paying more for your Rhinos than a Chimera and for much less effectiveness for what the upgrades you are paying for provide for the Rhino.
The small Dominion squads I like, but I'd personally drop the Dozer Blades on the Immolators. I know they can't self-repair, but I don't find myself having to take DT tests for my vehicles that much, and when I do, it is still only a 1 in 6 chance that I fail. I'll take those odds and save some points for something else. But that's me. If you find your experience to be different, then keep them for sure.
The 10 woman Dominon squad. I'd rather see that Simulacrum on the Rets first, but I know why you include one here. If you made some other changes I have suggested, then I'd buy one for the Rets and keep the one you have here. The power weapon on the SS again seems like such a waste. I'd switch it out for a Combi-flamer or another Plasma Pistol if you want to go that route as well. Same as above concerning the Rhino and upgrades.
In 5th, I'd say Exorcists should never, ever have Search Lights. Now? Go for it. Unless there's something I've missed concerning that change from 5th to 6th. But I'd still drop the Dozer Blades here. I mean, come on, how much moving into/through/etc. of DT are you doing with your Exorcists exactly? Again, unless your experience with this is vastly different from mine, drop the Dozers here for something else.
The Rets is the one place I could see running a SB on the SS. I may try it myself sometime, but I generally prefer Combi-weapons. But I like it here, so I'd keep the SB. What I would like to see would be some more bodies here. I know min Ret squads are nice and cheap, I have found that once they start taking causalities, they lose effectiveness quickly. If you pull the Ret SS, you lose her special weapon, and her +1 to the AoF you want going off. If you pull a Heavy Bolter, well then you just lost a Heavy Bolter! Extra Bolter bodies solves both of these problems easily. The other thing I'd like to see as mentioned before is the Simulacrum. Following some of my suggestions would get you points for both extra bodies here and a Simulacrum. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the SS can either fire the Quad Gun or her own weapon, but not both. An extra Bolter body here would allow you to get use out of the SB you paid for on the SS with still being able to fire the Quad Gun.
Wow that was tons. Whatever you end up doing, please let us know and good luck to you. I'd also really be interested in what your thinking is behind some of your choices and how they work/have worked/will work for you. Not trying to be mean at all, genuinely interested in your thoughts on the matter.
pretre wrote:Warlord Stuff
I mostly agree with you pretre, however, the difference in lists and how we run them makes Strategic more worth it or worthless. I usually DS my Seraphim, so, they are kept in Reserves and get use out of re-rolling for Reserves. I also more often than not Outflank my Dominions, so again re-rolling Reserves is useful to me, as is the re-roll to Outflank. With that being said, I will concede that Strategic appears to be the least useful to Sisters in general, and about the only Warlord I'd take it with is Kyrinov, which is not that often that he is my Warlord even when I do take him. The rest looks good to me though.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
On another note, I guess pretre and I are the only SoB players using Warlord Traits? The rest of you just not playing 6th or just not using Warlord Traits? With the CSM rumors, it seems that the traits are going to have to be used, so might as well discuss them.
I do, but I don't have much to add, especially after the longer post Pretre did. I run an aggressive list, and I roll on command, using Celestine as my warlord. I find command traits on a forward HQ tend to be the best bet for my list.
I nearly always take Celestine and the Personal traits (hoping for a 6 in scoring missions of course) since I find they match the aggressive style you have to play her.
Shandara wrote:I nearly always take Celestine and the Personal traits (hoping for a 6 in scoring missions of course) since I find they match the aggressive style you have to play her.
This is what I've always done as well. I think mostly though, it's me being lazy. I know Personal has some goodies on it but I don't know the other tables well. I need to learn the other tables and figure out which situations merit which table.
Command is interesting for Celestine and I've pretty much just ignored it this whole time.
Is there a particular reason to pick Combi-weapons over Plasma pistols on our sister superiors? I started looking into converting Combi weapons and then did a quick glance over at Plasma pistols, only 5 extra points to have a permanent AP1 weapon on hand?
I understand 'gets hot' but up until I realized I had a sister with a plasma pistol, I figured they didn't have access. even if she pulls the trigger every turn, there is less then a 1/18 chance any one sister will die to the plasma... so Am i missing something here?
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Is there a particular reason to pick Combi-weapons over Plasma pistols on our sister superiors? I started looking into converting Combi weapons and then did a quick glance over at Plasma pistols, only 5 extra points to have a permanent AP1 weapon on hand?
I understand 'gets hot' but up until I realized I had a sister with a plasma pistol, I figured they didn't have access. even if she pulls the trigger every turn, there is less then a 1/18 chance any one sister will die to the plasma... so Am i missing something here?
Many reasons:
- Plasma is only AP2.
- It is not part of the holy trinity of Melta/Flamer/Bolter
- Gets Hot!
- More points
- Mid range utility. A combi-melta does the same thing better. (AP1, 1 more strength)
- How many times does your squad get to shoot multiple times?
I actually don't put combis on anyone but my doms nowadays.
I thought they were all combi-melta pistol, or whatev's. Ah, that does make a significant amount of more sense.
I figured that the flavor may have been a factor, but I honestly don't expect anyone to go follow the fluff any more then they have too when it comes to army building.
Thanks again for that speedy answer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, would you recommend superior's getting just a bolter and forgetting the two cc weaponery? as it stands now, we're still pretty crappy in the hand to hand game and the extra attack is nice, but I would think that the sisters would get at least a couple shots off a game.
Nah, the Combis are Combi-Bolter and then whatever the other bit is.
Fluff is somewhat important in my decisions. I like to feel good when I put my army on the field. I balance my list decisions on efficacy and feel. Doesn't mean I can't make something work if I really want it to though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tagboard Wizard wrote:So, would you recommend superior's getting just a bolter and forgetting the two cc weaponery? as it stands now, we're still pretty crappy in the hand to hand game and the extra attack is nice, but I would think that the sisters would get at least a couple shots off a game.
As dumb as it is, I go CCW/BP for my Sister Squad superiors and generally BP/Combi for my Dominion superiors. I like the models a lot better and the difference between bolter and CCW isn't that big a deal. The extra attack is entertaining sometimes.
From an efficacy standpoint, BP/Bolter or BP/Combi all the way. The difference is so small that I don't sweat it though.
Oh yeah, I s'pose that counts as your one shot huh? well, I wasn't planning on using the Combi-flamer for anything but Wall 'o Death anyway. Combi-Melta on the other hand....
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Oh yeah, I s'pose that counts as your one shot huh? well, I wasn't planning on using the Combi-flamer for anything but Wall 'o Death anyway. Combi-Melta on the other hand....
Combi-meltas can miss, just sayin'.
Ok, I'll go a little deeper here. Combi-weapons are very situational, so the one you want depends on how you plan to use the unit. I think like Pretre wrote it's an absolute no-brainer to combi your Dominions, so what about the regular Battle Sisters?
In the old days, I'd go with a combi-melta basically for "Dreadnought insurance". With the new rules, I can't imagine not putting a combi-flamer on my VSS. You're going to use it, either because you got there first and got to shoot, or because they charged you. Two flamers can actually have an effect against enemy charges. If you get charged with a combi-melta, you can pray for that 6, but good luck. If, for some reason, you don't get to shoot it, then your girls probably didn't see much action which is a good thing.
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Is there a particular reason to pick Combi-weapons over Plasma pistols on our sister superiors? I started looking into converting Combi weapons and then did a quick glance over at Plasma pistols, only 5 extra points to have a permanent AP1 weapon on hand?
I understand 'gets hot' but up until I realized I had a sister with a plasma pistol, I figured they didn't have access. even if she pulls the trigger every turn, there is less then a 1/18 chance any one sister will die to the plasma... so Am i missing something here?
I was in a similar way of thinking about 3 years ago re Combi-weapons. Since then, I've learned much. As has been said, you will probably get only one good round of shooting in with either a Combi-weapon or a pistol (well two now with the change to Rapid Fire if you have a Bolter/Combi). I almost always take a Combi-weapon on all my Sisters Superior that can. I find that getting that 3rd or "extra" shot is often critical to getting the desired result (either an additional hit/pen against a vehicle or 5+ more hits/wounds with a Combi-Flamer). And also as stated, Plasma is not part of the holy trinity of bolter/melta/flamer. That matters to me. Granted I still have some models with Plasma Pistols or Combi-Plasma, but I really haven't used them much. Now Plasma for my IG on the other hand...
Edited to add: Worse comes to worse, if you take a Combi-weapon, you still have a Bolter no matter what that can move and shoot out to 24". You can't say the same for a Pistol. And as mentioned, Combi-weapons are cheaper points-wise.
Some of the original SoB models had plasma weapons - still do, since they're nearly all available. Plasma guns and pistols were available to any model that could buy wargear in the original codex. I'm pretty sure the knuckleheads on Yahoo! Battle-Sisters made up that crap about the weapon trinity during the play testing for Codex:Witch Hunters.
That said, plasma doesn't blow up tanks or fry infantry in quantity; combi's are preferable because they do those thing. Plasma is for MEQ and TEQ hunting and one shot doesn't make the unit suitable for that business. The pistol's just overpriced. I used to play a couple but those models were made for third edition when plasma was king.
pzbw7z wrote:Some of the original SoB models had plasma weapons - still do, since they're nearly all available. Plasma guns and pistols were available to any model that could buy wargear in the original codex. I'm pretty sure the knuckleheads on Yahoo! Battle-Sisters made up that crap about the weapon trinity during the play testing for Codex:Witch Hunters.
That said, plasma doesn't blow up tanks or fry infantry in quantity; combi's are preferable because they do those thing. Plasma is for MEQ and TEQ hunting and one shot doesn't make the unit suitable for that business. The pistol's just overpriced. I used to play a couple but those models were made for third edition when plasma was king.
pzbw7z wrote:Some of the original SoB models had plasma weapons - still do, since they're nearly all available. Plasma guns and pistols were available to any model that could buy wargear in the original codex. I'm pretty sure the knuckleheads on Yahoo! Battle-Sisters made up that crap about the weapon trinity during the play testing for Codex:Witch Hunters.
That said, plasma doesn't blow up tanks or fry infantry in quantity; combi's are preferable because they do those thing. Plasma is for MEQ and TEQ hunting and one shot doesn't make the unit suitable for that business. The pistol's just overpriced. I used to play a couple but those models were made for third edition when plasma was king.
"knuckleheads"?!?!?!
Valete,
JohnS
It's meant affectionately as I'm one of the knuckleheads. In fact, I was a moderator at the time. The weapon "trinity" was and is crap; that's not meant affectionately.
The theory that things exist in the game universe that excessive amounts of holy promethium or full auto micro RPG launchers aren't the best possible solution for killing is the foulest possible kind of heresy.
*draws a deep breath* ahh, I love the smell of fluff in the morning!
I usually go fluffwise whatever army I play! That's why my future Daemons army (Holy Emperor forgive for I have sinned but it will not fight your holy armies, only the races of ages past) who is mainly Tzeentch doesn't include ANY Nurgle, for Tzeentch and Nurgle kinda hate eachother
pretre wrote:My sob have always used the holy trinity and they predate c:WH by a four or five years.
So, no Exorcist for you then. Right.
I started without it, so yeah. I added two during C: Chapter Approved and recently updated them to the actual model (previously using scratchbuild based on old rhino chassis) with the new WD Codex. You're trying to say something completely different than what I was. You were trying to make out the whole concept of Holy Trinity to be an invention of the C:WH playtesters, which is not true. Although there have been a few models with plasma weapons going back into SoB history, the vast majority of weapons have been from the Melta/Bolter/Flamer families. The only ones that I remember (I could be wrong here since I'm just spitballing) being plasma were the Vet Seraph Sup's Plasma pistol and the missionary with plasma gun from the old range. Any others were added during the C:WH years.
(Aha, went to the SOLegends 1998 catalog, link HERE and I am correct. THere were two models with plasma at that point and no new models were made until the C:WH years. One of them wasn't even a sister, but a missionary.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: The 2004-2005 catalog shows a preview for C:WH which , as we know, added a Vet Sup with PP, a Vet Seraph Sup with PP/CS and a limited edition Inquisitor with PP. We also got access to the Plasma Cannon and Plasmagun through use of Warrior Henchmen (Servitors and normal Warriors). So basically, we had a total of 3 sisters models with Plasma pistols with one existing previous to the 2004/2005 C:WH update. I would hardly count that as part of our traditional armament. Even the Exorcist predates that by something like 4 years.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow. While trying to find a source for the trinity comment, I found a hilarious post from 1999.
Please read this and tell me what you all think, and I hope that if
and when GW releases plastic Sisters, there will be greater
possibilities to use these ideas.
According to the army lists, Sisters of Battle, have a preference
for flamers and meltas, "to erradicate their opponents utterly."
Based on this , I find it suprising that only the Cannoness and
the Veteran Sister Superiors can select a plasma pistol from their
Weapons List, and that no heavier plasma weapons are availible to the
Adeptus Sororitas chapters.
I thus propose this humble suggestion, that the following
adjustments to the Sister's Army List be considered. Obviously, I am
planning on suggesting this to GW, since the Codex:Sisters of Battle
apparently won't come out until after all of the thousands of Marine
Chapters have individual Codexes, not to mention the other Codexes.
That should give them plenty of time to determine if these ideas work,
heh heh.
Thus, my stated goal is to get the following minor changes
"Chapter Approved" and any suggestions or comments are appreciated.
First, the Sisters of Battle Weapons List needs this line added:
Combi-weapons:
Bolter-plasmagun................+25 points
Next, the Options sections for Celestian Squads and Sisters
Squads needs to be retyped like so:
Options:
Up to one model may be armed with one of the following
weapons: flamer at +3 points, plasma gun at +6 points, or meltagun at
+10 points.
Up to one model may be armed with: heavy bolter at +10
points, heavy flamer at +15 points, multi-melta at +25 points, or a
plasma cannon at +35 points.
Likewise, the Retributor Squad entry should read:
Options: Up to four Battle Sisters may be armed with the following:
Heavy bolter at +10 points, heavy flamer at +15 points, multi-melta at
+25 points, or a plasma cannon at +35 points.
Lastly, under Heavy Support, I propose an additional Rhino
variant:
Redeemer Points:70 FA:11 SA:11 RA:10 BS:3
A powerful support variation on the Immolator, the Redeemer
replaces the awesome Inferno cannon (twin linked heavy flamers) with
powerful linked plasma cannons, for long-range fire support and
anti-vehicle work.
Type: Tank (note that the Redeemer is not considered open topped, as
the Battle Sisters crewing it are wearing powered armour.)
Crew: Battle Sisters
Weapons: The Redeemer is armed with linked plasma cannons.
Transport: The Redeemer can carry up to six Battle Sisters.
Note: Any unit that can be mounted in an Immolator can be mounted in
a Redeemer instead, for the same points cost.
If you're still reading, thanks for your time, let me know if
you think it was well spent. =)
Also, I am planning on building a Redeemer here shortly, it
will be my first signifigant conversion, but I need a source for the
plasma cannons, and any suggestions are welcome.
"By the manner of their death we shall know them."
Note that he references plastic sisters here. In 1999. Wow, so we've been waiting for it for even longer than I thought (first time I heard of it was around 2001). He also references the sister's preference for melta/flamer and tries to suggest plasma be added to that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another post from 1999, re: wishlisting a SoB codex:
Here
I agree there needs to be some changes/additions to the Sisters army
list, however I feel psykers and plasma weapons don't fit. In the 2nd
ed. having a psyker in the army negatively affected the battle rites,
remember, the Ecclesiarchy frowns on mutant psykers. The basis of the
army is to be the cleansing fire of the Imperium, so flamers and
melta-weapons are first choice, plasma weapons which use electrical
energy don't seem right. Its like asking a space marine to use a lasgun.
Also If any weapon system today malfunctioned one out of every six times
I guarantee NOBODY would want to use it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Man, I love google groups searches.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last one and I'm headed home for the night:
I then inspected
the Battle squads, three groups of six sisters, I had one of each of the
heavy weapons the mechanicus has ordained we are allowed, MultiMelta, Heavy
Bolter, and Heavy Flamer, and decided it prudent to use all three today.
wow, a lot of fluff history in one post. I always wondered why the Holy (Weapon) Trinity existed...
[: Edit :]
Holy crap, I was just reading our allies options. Why, of all the chapters available, are Black Templar consider Desperate allies?! I thought the Inquisition and Space Wolves had beef with each other, but we can be allies of convenience? Why do we consider Dark Eldar Desperate Allies as well?! I can't think of one reason we would align with Eldar, let alone chaos Eldar... And we can align with the IG as battle brothers, but not Grey Knights?
I'm starting to get the impression that who ever wrote that chart forgot what the colors meant at the very end.
We can't take Grey Knight allies cause they have a thing about using SoBs as armor paint.
You'd think the Black Templars and the Sisters would get along just dandy though. "You like burning heretics to death? I like cutting them up with swords! ....hmmm I have an idea FIREY SWORDS!"
What? I seem to recall the sisters only being allowed psykers from the Grey knights as allies on the basis that they trusted the Grey Knights, ala 'The Inquisition is one big happy family!' thing.
and I also seem to recall the Black Templar having a long and Happy history with the Inquisition, Particularly the Witch hunters and by extension the SoB.
Tagboard Wizard wrote:What? I seem to recall the sisters only being allowed psykers from the Grey knights as allies on the basis that they trusted the Grey Knights, ala 'The Inquisition is one big happy family!' thing.
and I also seem to recall the Black Templar having a long and Happy history with the Inquisition, Particularly the Witch hunters and by extension the SoB.
Google "Bloodtide" or "Khornate Knights" for a full explanation. But the short version is in the Grey Knights codex there's a story in which a unit of Grey Knights slaughter a convent of Sisters of Battle and paint their armor with their blood to help ward them against Chaos(tm) and in particular a rather nasty daemon residing on the same world as the convent.
I don't think that's the actual explanation for the allies set up with the GKs but it fits my personal fluff after that mess
- Sisters of Battle Canoness with Power Axe
- Sisters of Battle Seraphim / Patronica Squad
- Sisters of Battle Battle Sisters
- Sisters of Battle Exorcist / Catafalque of Sins
- Sisters of Battle Prioress Lazarea Verata
- Sisters of Battle Sister Superior Magdalenia
- Sisters of Battle Repentia Squad
- Sisters of Battle Canoness with Power Axe
- Sisters of Battle Seraphim / Patronica Squad
- Sisters of Battle Battle Sisters
- Sisters of Battle Exorcist / Catafalque of Sins
- Sisters of Battle Prioress Lazarea Verata
- Sisters of Battle Sister Superior Magdalenia
- Sisters of Battle Repentia Squad
- Sisters of Battle Canoness with Power Axe
- Sisters of Battle Seraphim / Patronica Squad
- Sisters of Battle Battle Sisters
- Sisters of Battle Exorcist / Catafalque of Sins
- Sisters of Battle Prioress Lazarea Verata
- Sisters of Battle Sister Superior Magdalenia
- Sisters of Battle Repentia Squad
pretre wrote:And named upgrade character for a BSS squad. Wacky.
Waterfall!
Sigh... no heavy armor still though, I mean if we're gonna have a wish list of hopes and dreams they could stick that land raider with the inferno cannons on there for us
I dont has anyone tried to run them. Now with the Mixed armor if you screen them with your Crusaders I think you would have a much better chance to get them into CC. Before you used to just take them off the back . With 4 crusaders they have the ability to soak up a lot of wounds that would have gone straight to the BC.
We aren't marines with boobs, we're a whole hell of a lot more awesome AND we have boobs. But it's not like they're going to give us new heavy armor so we need to be willing to take what we can beg, borrow and if that ultramarine isn't watching closely steal.
....crap this reminds me of the /actual/ Marine Corps. "Hey that soldier's asleep on post!" "Sweet get the boys together and send a runner to the general, we have a new tank battalion!"
KalashnikovMarine wrote:We aren't marines with boobs, we're a whole hell of a lot more awesome AND we have boobs. But it's not like they're going to give us new heavy armor so we need to be willing to take what we can beg, borrow and if that ultramarine isn't watching closely steal.
....crap this reminds me of the /actual/ Marine Corps. "Hey that soldier's asleep on post!" "Sweet get the boys together and send a runner to the general, we have a new tank battalion!"
How about a redeemer variant with a shrine on top?
So we are almost at the 1 year anniversary of our WD codex and I wanted to do a kind of "Where are we now?" thing.
I will be one of the first to admit that I initially thought the sky was falling when I first saw what we got as a replacement for C:WH. I was appalled to say the least and was willing to go as far as to convince our local TO's to continue to let me use C:WH over, what I thought at the time, that abomination that was our new codex.
Looking back, I can see how my feelings were not entirely justified, even more so with the change to 6th. Much of what I thought made the codex bad was negated entirely or even improved with 6th dropping and I can see now how it appears that some of that design was intentional, or seems that way to me, on the part of the design. Seraphim's nerf to I3? Still a nerf, but definitely mitigated by being able to use St. Celestine's I7 for Hit and Run (for one squad at least). Rage still on Penitent Engines and Repentia? Much better now in 6th.
Now it is not all good. We are still limited in many ways by our available choices, especially in our only troop choice. Some people see our BSS as a tax we pay to take the good stuff, and I am generally inclined to agree. With the changes to 6th, Uriah Bomb and Battle Conclaves in general took a hit with the transport rules and our continued lack of an assault vehicle.
As Amerikon is showing us with his current batreps, Sisters can still be competitive at a GT level in 6th. And with the current ongoing rumors, we may be looking at a "for reals" codex here sooner than any of us initially thought with plastics as a good possibility too.
So that is where I see SoB standing right now at just about a year into our current incarnation. Thoughts?
Shandara wrote:GW releasing a power axe version of the canonness should hopefully put to rest the discussion whether power weapon means we can use all 3 types.
That issues the point. People aren't saying that they don't exist, just that you can't freely swap them.
Shandara wrote:GW releasing a power axe version of the canonness should hopefully put to rest the discussion whether power weapon means we can use all 3 types.
That issues the point. People aren't saying that they don't exist, just that you can't freely swap them.
I find that extremely silly if you couldn't especially when so many vehicles have multi weapon choices that people attach magnets to their vehicles so they can switch out their armaments without having to buy and build a whole nother model just to represent a different weapon.
There may not be a power axe version right now but that hasn't stopped people in the past from converting their models so why the huff over the power weapons for SOB?
It seems pretty cut and dry for me but maybe im missing something about this?
I'm not going to replicate te argument here, but suffice to say that some vehemently disagree with the notion that you are freely allowed to remodel a mini to change the PW type.
Dervos wrote:I find that extremely silly if you couldn't especially when so many vehicles have multi weapon choices that people attach magnets to their vehicles so they can switch out their armaments without having to buy and build a whole nother model just to represent a different weapon.
There may not be a power axe version right now but that hasn't stopped people in the past from converting their models so why the huff over the power weapons for SOB?
It seems pretty cut and dry for me but maybe im missing something about this?
pretre wrote:I'm not going to replicate te argument here, but suffice to say that some vehemently disagree with the notion that you are freely allowed to remodel a mini to change the PW type.
Mainly because of DCA and modeling them to have both a Power Sword and Power Axe or Maul so they get the best of both worlds depending on what you happen to be facing at that moment. Frankly, I'm just pissed about possibly buying another 20 of those to do so as I'm unwilling to chop up my other ones (they are such beautiful models IMO).
I can't imagine buying 20 DCA, or painting them. I like the model and they really are lovely sculpts but it's the same issue I have with Crusaders in the end, there's only two of them. Clones are boring.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:So we are almost at the 1 year anniversary of our WD codex and I wanted to do a kind of "Where are we now?" thing.
I will be one of the first to admit that I initially thought the sky was falling when I first saw what we got as a replacement for C:WH. I was appalled to say the least and was willing to go as far as to convince our local TO's to continue to let me use C:WH over, what I thought at the time, that abomination that was our new codex.
Looking back, I can see how my feelings were not entirely justified, even more so with the change to 6th. Much of what I thought made the codex bad was negated entirely or even improved with 6th dropping and I can see now how it appears that some of that design was intentional, or seems that way to me, on the part of the design. Seraphim's nerf to I3? Still a nerf, but definitely mitigated by being able to use St. Celestine's I7 for Hit and Run (for one squad at least). Rage still on Penitent Engines and Repentia? Much better now in 6th.
Now it is not all good. We are still limited in many ways by our available choices, especially in our only troop choice. Some people see our BSS as a tax we pay to take the good stuff, and I am generally inclined to agree. With the changes to 6th, Uriah Bomb and Battle Conclaves in general took a hit with the transport rules and our continued lack of an assault vehicle.
As Amerikon is showing us with his current batreps, Sisters can still be competitive at a GT level in 6th. And with the current ongoing rumors, we may be looking at a "for reals" codex here sooner than any of us initially thought with plastics as a good possibility too.
So that is where I see SoB standing right now at just about a year into our current incarnation. Thoughts?
I thought the list was better under 5th. Many of the things that got better in 6th still don't strike me as good, and the nerf to the Conclave is a big hit. I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do. Celestine was pretty good before, but has become even better. Uriah was nearly an auto-include before and now he's second fiddle - maybe third.
The Battle Sisters are still an albatross around the lists neck, one of the worst troop units in the game. A absolutely awful piece of game design.
The new list has always struck me as very competitive at 1,500 points, I think I lost one game at that level, and that was due to wacky table quarter rules and some bad luck (and maybe a bit of tardiness getting moving) but I hammered the guy on KP. I would have matched my 1,500-point list against anybody in 5th edition.
I think a little less of it now, but I still think it's very competitive at that level. I'm just not sure what to do for larger games. Allies may be the answer, but I keep thinking, "Why not just play that army instead?"
The new stuff is exciting and not just the SoB stuff - that rumor dump is HUGE and there is a lot of cool-sounding stuff for several armies.
pzbw7z wrote:I thought the list was better under 5th. Many of the things that got better in 6th still don't strike me as good, and the nerf to the Conclave is a big hit. I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do. Celestine was pretty good before, but has become even better. Uriah was nearly an auto-include before and now he's second fiddle - maybe third.
The Battle Sisters are still an albatross around the lists neck, one of the worst troop units in the game. A absolutely awful piece of game design.
The new list has always struck me as very competitive at 1,500 points, I think I lost one game at that level, and that was due to wacky table quarter rules and some bad luck (and maybe a bit of tardiness getting moving) but I hammered the guy on KP. I would have matched my 1,500-point list against anybody in 5th edition.
I think a little less of it now, but I still think it's very competitive at that level. I'm just not sure what to do for larger games. Allies may be the answer, but I keep thinking, "Why not just play that army instead?"
The new stuff is exciting and not just the SoB stuff - that rumor dump is HUGE and there is a lot of cool-sounding stuff for several armies.
I'll mostly agree, but I think we got better in 6th. It is my contention that the Battle Conclave was probably too good for 5th. I think that Repentia can still fill that niche much better now. We do tend to perform at lower points, like 1500, comparatively, but I think we still scale well up to 2k in all areas except for troops. That is somewhat mitigated by having two scenarios where FA/HS are scoring too. Two of our best slots that couldn't do so in 5th. So there is that too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote:
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I already have 20 of them. I'm lamenting about buying 20 MORE of them to cut up.
Wyches plus purity seals plus flagellant bits plus any source of swords. I hve about 15 or so.
Understood and all good for you and others. Me? I'm a stickler for using the "official" models even if they aren't 100% WYSIWYG (I'm looking at you DCA with one sword).
In my two Battle Conclaves, I have four GW Death Cultists, one Escher, one slightly converted Callidus, one heavily converted metal Wych with metal SoB head, and several plastic Wyches. The Crusaders are all Sisters of Sigmar. Cool units; now they take up space at the bottom of the case and add weight. I hear Coteaz might be hiring.
Ok so the post with actual information got deleted instead of the post that said double post because THAT makes sense.
Anyway what I was trying to say was I feel like the battle conclave has fallen to the wayside with the introduction of 6th edition, they still fill a role SOB need but they aren't as useful I feel as they were. So I've kinda followed other player's lead by dropping Uriah and the conclave in favor of just using saint celestine.
It always felt weird using them even though they are useful in a SOB army, they are inquistion troops but still felt odd for some reason
I have four converted wyches as mentioned above, one standard DC and a Callidus. Three standard crusaders, and Sister Analiese who was selected for the Crusaders from my Order of Sisters per the fluff. Actually a paladin from Hasslefree where I got my wings for Celestine
Has anyone considered attaching Celestine to a Repentia Squad? She could provide them with a 2+ save in front, and they would give the Saint their AoF. (Granted, it isn't too common to kill Celestine before she attacks, with her high Initiative.) In the regular movement phase, they’ll slow Celestine down, but her Jump Pack and their Fleet would mesh well together for assaulting. Make it a large squad, and you have a squad that seems like it would take on Warlords and their Retinues rather well, even if they are hiding in a building.
I just haven’t been having great luck with my Seraphim lately, and though the Hand Flamers are rather useful, I might have a bit of an Eviscerator fetish… Unless I hear resounding shouts of “No, don’t leave our beloved Saint in close proximity with those sinners,” I’ll try this out next chance I have.
It doesn't sound like an entirely terrible idea, but St. Celestine does work so much better with Seraphim. That and with the Mistress leading the Repentia the same way, they'll have a 3+/FnP model in front to boot. Since they are already Fearless, I just don't think they help each other as much as one would think. And slowing down St. Celestine just seems like a bad idea. But try it out and see how it works.
I think it's got potential, maybe combine that with a stabby BC and Jacobius up the front, fire support from the sides, could probably give some serious issues to more assaulty armies.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote: It doesn't sound like an entirely terrible idea, but St. Celestine does work so much better with Seraphim. That and with the Mistress leading the Repentia the same way, they'll have a 3+/FnP model in front to boot. Since they are already Fearless, I just don't think they help each other as much as one would think. And slowing down St. Celestine just seems like a bad idea. But try it out and see how it works.
The 3+/FNP is useful, but I'd rather use the Mistress as a placeholder for Celestine in the event she's too lazy to stand back up. Sure, I'm losing out on a chance to spread Fearless, but I swear my Battle Sisters already have it, and I don't really need it anywhere else. I've used Celestaphim to great effect before, but I'd rather try something new. I also don't consider it to be slowing Celestine down too much, seeing as how I'll really only be missing out on 6" for a turn or two, depending on how the enemy deployed. It isn't a perfect combo, but I'm gonna give it a whirl.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I think it's got potential, maybe combine that with a stabby BC and Jacobius up the front, fire support from the sides, could probably give some serious issues to more assaulty armies.
Instead of using Jacobus and his Conclave, I have my three trusty Penitent Engines, as well as two Dominion Squads that clear the way. I never really liked the Conclave, just didn't scream Battle Sisters to me. If we could still field Inquisitors (without the mandatory 100pt Strike Squad), I might consider them, but for now I'll stick with my Sinnerbots.
Was hoping for some help getting back into 40K, since I last played years ago I've noticed units people are running in SoB have changed significantly. Would love some feedback about what I might be looking to acquire to catch up with the times!
Currently have roughly the following...
2x Cannoness
4x BSS with primarily flamers + heavy flamers... Might have a couple meltas
4x rhinos (and I think I have the immo kits still, see a lot of those being run)
3x exorcists
~10x seraphim with some dual flamers pistols, some inferno pistols, and some vss kitted for cc
Thoughts on what I should keep my eyes out for? If I'm not too many additions away from a competitive list I'd love l return to playing sisters, but even a couple years ago they were expensive, if I've got <50% of what I'd field I'll sell these and do some army in plastic...
At this time, there is no reason to go with a Canoness, let alone two. In the WD Codex, HQ characters are not priced reasonably. Special Characters are cheap and so, so much better than the regular characters. Celestine is one of the best and cheapest SC out there. The only thing against using here is the fluff.
I use redmptionists with eviserators as my DCA.
The best models I ever painted so after the got yanked back in 5th?
I just kept them and now they are my DCA.
CT GAMER wrote:I really hate how they neutered the arcos...
They were a fun and characterful unit that had just the right amount of randomness and quirky rules to make them interesting and unique.
I hope they backtrack in the future codex:SOB and make them cool again...
I used them back in the day, but they were mostly for fun. I agree they didn't figure out what to do with them this go around - DCA took over the power weapons role, and arco just didn't get enough in return. I could see them as a good fluffy option for the zealot USR in the future - or just increasing their toughness a bit might give them some kind of role. Conversely, if it turns out that DCA can only take power swords, Arco gain a bit - weight of attacks gives them a bit better chance of putting wounds onto TEQ's or damaging vehicles then DCA, and they still do better against hordes as well.
StMariusz wrote:Was hoping for some help getting back into 40K, since I last played years ago I've noticed units people are running in SoB have changed significantly. Would love some feedback about what I might be looking to acquire to catch up with the times!
Currently have roughly the following...
2x Cannoness
4x BSS with primarily flamers + heavy flamers... Might have a couple meltas
4x rhinos (and I think I have the immo kits still, see a lot of those being run)
3x exorcists
~10x seraphim with some dual flamers pistols, some inferno pistols, and some vss kitted for cc
Thoughts on what I should keep my eyes out for? If I'm not too many additions away from a competitive list I'd love l return to playing sisters, but even a couple years ago they were expensive, if I've got <50% of what I'd field I'll sell these and do some army in plastic...
The other comment about Canonesses is essentially correct; she's the worst choice available in HQ. Truly awful.
Battle Sisters are required - there's no way around it. Sad but true.
Dominions are perhaps the best of the infantry units; a good choice. The only reason to not play three units of Dominions is if you play two and one unit of Seraphim. There is NO reason to not play at least two units of Dominions.
Seraphim are usable with Celestine. They aren't terrific even with her, but they're playable. In some situations, they can do good things. It probably helps if you remember some of their abilities, like the ones I keep forgetting about. It would probably also help if you have ANY luck at all - I don't seem to.
Celestine is spectacular for her points cost; she's not a combat beat stick but she has potentially game-winning special abilities.
Exorcists are a solid choice. Some people play heavy-bolter Retributors, but I never leave home without all three Exorcists.
The two named Ecclesiarchy characters have some good rules, but there aren't great units for them to accompany any more. Uriah and the Battle Conclave were superstars in 5th edition, but the new rules have rendered them dubious choices.
The new ally rules open endless possibilities, especially the possibility of having some non-sucking troops. You can also add some extra firepower or some real close-combat capability.
canadianguy wrote:I use redmptionists with eviserators as my DCA.
The best models I ever painted so after the got yanked back in 5th?
I just kept them and now they are my DCA.
I have a ton of reds but im not a fan of this proxy/counts as. Eviserators aren't even close to double pw.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Uriah plus guard blob is win.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Speaking of Codexes (Codexii? Codex? Codexes?) according to my FLGS and supplemented by this annoyingly sparse link as a "source" http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2010/06/23/37194/
GW has released Codex Witchhunters for free download. I've been poking my nose around for awhile and can't seem to find it, any one got confirmation?
If you want it I'm sure you can find it somewhere on the web, but as an out of date codex it's been pulled from the GW site. It was a free download before the new codex replaced it though, so confirmed it is.
I know this is probably the wrong thread to be posting this in, but does anyone know a good tutorial for a church organ style conversion for the Exorcist? I see plenty that put Missle launchers on a rhino, but, if I wanted a whirlwind, I would be playing my Space Marines...
Ironically I went the exact opposite direction. I hate the look of the church organ and prefer a more militant look for my girls. I just got a pair of Immolators (one old kit, one new) ready to go, modified with a few bits here and there, and then took an old school whirlwind missile pod, modified slightly, on to a new whirlwind (both had an Iron Warriors theme) stripped, sanctified and sister-fied, then did the same thing to a very beat up rhino that needed some mercy. I love conversions, nothing quite like taking a second hand model and with some TLC, impact engineering, bitz and paint making it so the original owner wouldn't recognize it if it bit him.
well, two problems with the pewter model. Firstly, it's Pewter and expensive, I'm sure with the addition of some very repetitive shapes and such to a basic rhino, there must be a means for me to let loose my Wizardry, I just like getting heads up from other who have done the same so I can learn pitfalls and expand my goody bag with tricks.
Secondly, my army isn't a standard sisters army, in fact, it's an all male unit, so the Fluer iconography and other sistery-ness is a no-go for me. I'm not getting a complicated multi-part heavy awkward pewter model that sticks out like a sore thumb... even... even if it's job is to chill in the back...
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Secondly, my army isn't a standard sisters army, in fact, it's an all male unit, so the Fluer iconography and other sistery-ness is a no-go for me. I'm not getting a complicated multi-part heavy awkward pewter model that sticks out like a sore thumb... even... even if it's job is to chill in the back...
Woah woah woah! An all-male Sisters army with no fleurs-de-lis? Where's the Moderator??? Someone ban this man!!!
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Ironically I went the exact opposite direction. I hate the look of the church organ and prefer a more militant look for my girls. I just got a pair of Immolators (one old kit, one new) ready to go, modified with a few bits here and there, and then took an old school whirlwind missile pod, modified slightly, on to a new whirlwind (both had an Iron Warriors theme) stripped, sanctified and sister-fied, then did the same thing to a very beat up rhino that needed some mercy. I love conversions, nothing quite like taking a second hand model and with some TLC, impact engineering, bitz and paint making it so the original owner wouldn't recognize it if it bit him.
This exactly, I intensely dislike the church organ, it is pretty but as a painter it scares the bejesus out of me to even consider attempting to paint let alone three of them and that price....eeeeehhhh....
I much rather prefer slapping some kind of missile launcher on top of a rhino because that's basically all it is, I want my army to at least look somewhat utilitarian, 3 war organs kind of mess with that, and the paint job I'd do one them would not do the organ models justice.
Besides what difference really is there between a SM whirlwind and the FW exorcist?
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:We are still limited in many ways by our available choices, especially in our only troop choice. Some people see our BSS as a tax we pay to take the good stuff, and I am generally inclined to agree.
The Battle Sisters are still an albatross around the lists neck, one of the worst troop units in the game. A absolutely awful piece of game design.
I'll agree that the BSS is probably the worst unit in a competitive Sisters list, but 6th has certainly made them better.
Being able to move the unit w/o having to move the heavy weapon, is a big plus. There were a couple of occasions in my recent games where I was able to essentially make a full advance with a BSS, but then shoot my Multi-Melta at a Rhino or something. Being able to move and fire bolters 24" is a pretty big deal as well. The combination of these two elements means that you can do a "tactical advance" with your foot troops.
That leads me to my next point. I'm very close to going "all in" on foot Sisters. No longer being able to score from a vehicle and the usefulness of extended bolter range makes a difference. They are vulnerable to assault, but it's easier to keep your distance now. I had a good bit of success keeping a little base with my Heavies and my BSSs then sending my Fast Attacks out to start some . Fasts go for denial and the Troops grab objectives in the late game.
I think the biggest problem with our Troops in 6th is how much they cost. My foot units were 150pts each. That means that we have to make a large point investment before we can start to bring in allied troops. I'm interested to try allying with some tough troops like Grey Knights or Deathwing.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Speaking of Codexes (Codexii? Codex? Codexes?)
Codices, though GW likes to ignore that and call them codexes at times.
Tagboard Wizard wrote:well, two problems with the pewter model. Firstly, it's Pewter and expensive, I'm sure with the addition of some very repetitive shapes and such to a basic rhino, there must be a means for me to let loose my Wizardry, I just like getting heads up from other who have done the same so I can learn pitfalls and expand my goody bag with tricks.
Secondly, my army isn't a standard sisters army, in fact, it's an all male unit, so the Fluer iconography and other sistery-ness is a no-go for me. I'm not getting a complicated multi-part heavy awkward pewter model that sticks out like a sore thumb... even... even if it's job is to chill in the back...
So something like IST? Cool. Anyway you could probably build one yourself out of plastic tubes. Or maybe take a cue from this.
It is an artillery piece anyway.
I'm not going to lie, despite liking the actual model I'd still suggest trying to build it yourself from the Immolator before grabbing the actual kit. I got one just out of liking it itself, though I liked the part where the background called them unique works of art so try to make mine all look different.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Ironically I went the exact opposite direction. I hate the look of the church organ and prefer a more militant look for my girls. I just got a pair of Immolators (one old kit, one new) ready to go, modified with a few bits here and there, and then took an old school whirlwind missile pod, modified slightly, on to a new whirlwind (both had an Iron Warriors theme) stripped, sanctified and sister-fied, then did the same thing to a very beat up rhino that needed some mercy. I love conversions, nothing quite like taking a second hand model and with some TLC, impact engineering, bitz and paint making it so the original owner wouldn't recognize it if it bit him.
This exactly, I intensely dislike the church organ, it is pretty but as a painter it scares the bejesus out of me to even consider attempting to paint let alone three of them and that price....eeeeehhhh....
I much rather prefer slapping some kind of missile launcher on top of a rhino because that's basically all it is, I want my army to at least look somewhat utilitarian, 3 war organs kind of mess with that, and the paint job I'd do one them would not do the organ models justice.
Besides what difference really is there between a SM whirlwind and the FW exorcist?
About $20 from what I can tell. The FW Exorcist doesn't even come with the SoB doors and front piece. Buy two discount whirlwinds on ebay, order the bits or get creative with Fleur de Lis from other sources like I did with mine:
and you get a perfectly functional and slightly more militant looking Exorcist.
I'd also like to challenge the above statement from the gentleman with the all male sisters army (figure that one out!) that Fleur de Lis aren't manly and awesome.
Ugh, that is so wrong. Is the exorcist really still pewter? I might have to re-consider taking 2 of them then. Sounds like a modelling nightmare in its own right. T^T
This makes me want to cry. Why dosent GW get their priorities straight? Instead of releasing new models, why dont we take 5 seconds and convert the old ones to plastic first?
It's still pewter. It doesn't really require more skills than most 'advanced' GW products though. Just careful pinning and filing to get it to actually fit
Vindicare-Obsession wrote:This makes me want to cry. Why dosent GW get their priorities straight? Instead of releasing new models, why dont we take 5 seconds and convert the old ones to plastic first?
They've been doing this for close to a year now? All models should be converted sometime around next summer.
Wow, a lot more flack then I expected about my... er... Brothers of Battle.
In the Fluff, The Ecclesiarchy had a formed a military branch called the Frateris Templar to help enforce their will, crush revolts and 'absorb' other smaller cults of the Emperor. However, as the Ecclesiarchy became more and more tyrannical, they were over thrown by the Ecclesiarch Sebastian Thor and passed the Decree Passive, stating the Ecclesiarchy would no longer be able to maintain Men under arms. This loop hole was intentionally left in to allow the new Adepta Sororitas to be the militant chamber of the Ecclesiarchy, but disbanded the Frateris Templar.
I honor everyone's determination in this almost exclusively pewter army, but I took a cheaper path, and I'm making a Frateris Templar order that 'Never got the memo' on the Decree Passive by kit bashing marines and Chaos Mauraders/ Empire Flagellants. My first 1500 cost me little more then $200, and when/if plastic sisters come out, I'll gladly restart over and 'promote' my Templar's to Mortifactor Scouts.
There is nothing un-manly about the Fluer, nor did I say anything about it's masculinity/lack there-of, but in the 40k universe, it's the official symbol of the Adepta Sororitas, not the Militant Chamber. I want my army to fit the fluff, as at least I can defend that side of the argument.
I saw a very well done Lunar wolves army in Pasadena, once. Asked why he didn't have a Librarian and he explained the idea of a Pre-heresy army to me. looking back, it was kinda ironic considering the army I didn't recognize.
well, I could do pre-heresy, but I'm not really well acknowledged on pre-heresy style. I've seen terminators, and I know the 'Beaky' helmets and such, but I'm not to well read on the visuals. Besides, I kinda like the idea of a renegade group, sponsored in party by Inquisitor's under the table, and since my order takes place on Posul, the other part of their sponsorship is coming from the Mortifactors.
Plus, as Pretre pointed out, it'll always provide a narrative as to why we would have a pitched battle with space marines, IG and sisters and other forces of the Imperium, as well as their enemies.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote:This makes me want to cry. Why dosent GW get their priorities straight? Instead of releasing new models, why dont we take 5 seconds and convert the old ones to plastic first?
Plastic Exorcist is on the rumor list. Plastic Battle Sisters are not.
pzbw7z wrote:
Plastic Exorcist is on the rumor list. Plastic Battle Sisters are not.
You mean the leaked 2013 GW release list? I can't speak to it's accuracy, but plastic Sisters are definitely on that list. Along with repentia and some new figures.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Tagboard I was just teasing mate, I like the idea of a pre-heresy Frateris Templar, I'm sure that's one that hasn't been done before.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Tagboard I was just teasing mate, I like the idea of a pre-heresy Frateris Templar, I'm sure that's one that hasn't been done before.
I wasn't concerned about all that, but declaring heresy is no laughing matter. Even I reached for my flamer when I heard of heretics in our quarters.
Pretre, Didn't we use to have a unit entry for Fraternis Militia? Maybe around the Witch hunter's codex era?
It was a WD addon to c:WH meant to placate all the players who lost their redemptionists when c:ca got nixed. It wasn't official in most circles so was largely useless not to mention the rules were a good deal worse than the redemptionists rules.
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Wow, a lot more flack then I expected about my... er... Brothers of Battle.
In the Fluff, The Ecclesiarchy had a formed a military branch called the Frateris Templar to help enforce their will, crush revolts and 'absorb' other smaller cults of the Emperor. However, as the Ecclesiarchy became more and more tyrannical, they were over thrown by the Ecclesiarch Sebastian Thor and passed the Decree Passive, stating the Ecclesiarchy would no longer be able to maintain Men under arms. This loop hole was intentionally left in to allow the new Adepta Sororitas to be the militant chamber of the Ecclesiarchy, but disbanded the Frateris Templar.
I honor everyone's determination in this almost exclusively pewter army, but I took a cheaper path, and I'm making a Frateris Templar order that 'Never got the memo' on the Decree Passive by kit bashing marines and Chaos Mauraders/ Empire Flagellants. My first 1500 cost me little more then $200, and when/if plastic sisters come out, I'll gladly restart over and 'promote' my Templar's to Mortifactor Scouts.
There is nothing un-manly about the Fluer, nor did I say anything about it's masculinity/lack there-of, but in the 40k universe, it's the official symbol of the Adepta Sororitas, not the Militant Chamber. I want my army to fit the fluff, as at least I can defend that side of the argument.
I think the Idea is awesome! Never thought of doing something like that keep us updated on the the progress or start a tread in the WIP forums so we can check in on you.
TBH I really started sisters b/c I was tired of male dominance in the 40k world. Something about playing SoB with male models just kills that idea for me
On the flip side, has any noticed how suspicious it is that GK now have a special character who is female, has a jump pack, and a magic sword? I just found her while skimming the book again (for like the 20000th time)
My IG use allied SoB counts as, and mine are also converted marines. They are the heavy-infantry regiment in my army, and are painted with the same scheme. I chose SoB specifically because they have human statlines, but have power armour. Ergo, they count as guardsmen/veterans in power armour.
I hate letting space marines have all the fancy toys.
McGibs wrote:My IG use allied SoB counts as, and mine are also converted marines. They are the heavy-infantry regiment in my army, and are painted with the same scheme. I chose SoB specifically because they have human statlines, but have power armour. Ergo, they count as guardsmen/veterans in power armour.
I hate letting space marines have all the fancy toys.
I like that idea (PA Guardsmen). Do you have any images of your conversions?
The ONLY reason I play SoB is the models; there's never really been competitive reason. Some day I'll write the whole story of my anguished, love-hate affair with the SoB of all these years.
Yeah, the models have always been awesome. I saw the box on the shelf at the FLGS (the old battleforce that came with the little shrine thing) and couldn't help myself.
I think armies based on aesthetics are the way to go. Power level comes and goes, but cool looks last forever.
Has anyone ever made Seraphim conversions out of Dark Eldar Scourges? I would like to plan a unit of Seraphim for my budding Sisters force, but dropping 12.50 per Seraphim seems like a bit much. Even on Ebay it looks like it will be hard to find anything less than 10 dollars per model. Or if anyone has any other suggestions about how to make Seraphims.
bogalubov wrote:Has anyone ever made Seraphim conversions out of Dark Eldar Scourges? I would like to plan a unit of Seraphim for my budding Sisters force, but dropping 12.50 per Seraphim seems like a bit much. Even on Ebay it looks like it will be hard to find anything less than 10 dollars per model. Or if anyone has any other suggestions about how to make Seraphims.
Take out a second mortgage? There just is no competition that I've seen to the actual models. You might try finding an SM player of sorts that has extra Jump Packs from spare/unused Assault Marines. Dunno how that would look, especially on DE Scourges, but with enough GS maybe...
). On the topic of wraiths, you have not seen their true power until you have faced a full unit of them with Whip Coils with a destroyer lord. 2+ armor, with those sneaky mss to go with it means you are either accepting a challenge you are sure to lose no matter what, or you decline and the lord gets to run rampant through your I-1 unit. Not to mention how rough wraiths are themselves.
(I do realize that having them alive to soak fire is something, but I want my crazied drugged up machine-suited ladies to kill stuff darn it!)
to do so as I'm unwilling to chop up my other ones (they are such beautiful models 
