war wrote: I was thinking of trying to speed up my force significantly. Going with 3 units of 10? dominion. I'm still deciding on either flamers or melta or a mix. The mix may be the way to go (so maybe 3 flamers, 1 melta and a combi-melta). Shoot them across the field T1 in their rhinos regardless of first turn and ally either Creed to scout penitent engines... or try a vindicare again. The point would be to basically give the opponent so much to worry about they ignore the lightly armed BSS and henchmen/infantry squads running around capturing objectives.
Speed kills, right?
I like 2 Flamer, 2 Melta for my Doms. It is a lot of points though.
I generally do:
- 5 Doms (2 Flamer, Combi-Flamer) in TL-MM Immo x2
- 10 Doms (2 Flamer, 2 Melta) in Rhino (or Repressor)
Gives you a really nasty first (scout) or second (outflank) turn hit.
I'm guessing you've mixed Doms as a full squad of either melta or flamer just proves to be overkill for 1 task and it gives you extra flex in what the squad does?
Have you ever wished you'd taken the overkill squad over the mix?
evildrcheese wrote: I'm guessing you've mixed Doms as a full squad of either melta or flamer just proves to be overkill for 1 task and it gives you extra flex in what the squad does?
Have you ever wished you'd taken the overkill squad over the mix?
D
I personally run the overkill of melta in my smaller DOM squads. So, its 2 Melta guns and a combi-plasma / melta in the Immolators with 4 flamers in the rhino. This absolutely decimates power armor / terminator lists. Most players are not expecting that much AP1 & 2 to be right in their face turn 1. Targets for the melta squads vary from game to game, but it generally assures me that my opponent is going to lose 1-3 vehicles the first turn. The easy bake oven lite varies on turn 1. Depending on what is available, they may get out and toast some people. Otherwise, they stay quietly embarked until turn 2 so they can be right where they need to be. And, with all of that melta floating around, the rhino tends to get ignored.
pretre wrote: Small squads = Run single type
Big Squads = Diversity
I like the tactical flexibility of being able to hit multiple types of targets when I have more bodies.
Sound advice. I recently picked up some extra models including 2 more meltas and 2 more flamers. Might try the 10 woman squad in a rhino with that load out in the near future.
I forgot to mention that since I've been running my Sisters again I've discovered that 3 other people at my club have Sisters armies but never ran them after the disappointment of the WD Dex. After seeing my (relative) success with the Sisters 2 of them have since brought their Sisters out and done well, one person destroyed a GK army, and the other guy had a close fought fight (and eventual win) vs Chaos (no heldrakes though). Still, everyone now agrees that Sisters aren't as bad as they first thought.
Green is Best! wrote: I keep curb stomping marines and then get told my codex is OP.
Amusingly enough, I have found Sisters to be best against Power and Terminator armor armies. They just don't have enough models and we have plenty of AP.
Green is Best! wrote: I keep curb stomping marines and then get told my codex is OP.
Amusingly enough, I have found Sisters to be best against Power and Terminator armor armies. They just don't have enough models and we have plenty of AP.
Yeah, I played a Dark Angels player the other day. He had never played sisters. He asked how good of a codex they were. I said they were not bad, but they absolutely destroy power armor armies.
He found out in short order exactly what they can do in two turns, completely tabled in 4. I think I lost 10 models that whole game.
Right now, I have struggled against Necron Air, IG gunline, and Tau with the farsight bomb?
I've seen a lot of Tau gunlines and a couple IG gunlines (mostly meck). The only problem i've had against this type of army is when we play on the long board because it takes too long to get to them if they're lined up on the edge. Outflanking is a wonderful tool if you have this type of game. Just take the 2nd turn and outflank all of your doms to roast them.
The farsight bomb is one that i've seen quite a bit and i'm still trying to figure out how to deal with. Coteaz helps with enough templates but I generally assume that I will lose 1 unit a turn from the bodyguards. Toying around with the idea of crusaders/assassins to beat them to death but i'd need to sacrifice a unit to overwatch to ensure they get a charge and the tau mobility makes this strategy iffy at best. Outside of convenient flamer templates around I have yet to find a solve for this build... anything work for you?
I've yet to fight against necron air. Only thing I have that really deals with air is the ADL and I don't want to ally in any planes so i'm kinda stuck on this one anyway. ($130 is too high for me to get an avenger from forgeworld. Nice figure though)
war wrote: I've seen a lot of Tau gunlines and a couple IG gunlines (mostly meck). The only problem i've had against this type of army is when we play on the long board because it takes too long to get to them if they're lined up on the edge. Outflanking is a wonderful tool if you have this type of game. Just take the 2nd turn and outflank all of your doms to roast them.
The farsight bomb is one that i've seen quite a bit and i'm still trying to figure out how to deal with. Coteaz helps with enough templates but I generally assume that I will lose 1 unit a turn from the bodyguards. Toying around with the idea of crusaders/assassins to beat them to death but i'd need to sacrifice a unit to overwatch to ensure they get a charge and the tau mobility makes this strategy iffy at best. Outside of convenient flamer templates around I have yet to find a solve for this build... anything work for you?
I've yet to fight against necron air. Only thing I have that really deals with air is the ADL and I don't want to ally in any planes so i'm kinda stuck on this one anyway. ($130 is too high for me to get an avenger from forgeworld. Nice figure though)
An relatively easy way to take out the Farsight Bomb, is high amounts of Str8+, AP1-3 fire, which with Exorcists you should have available in droves.
Sit a unit of Repentia or Penitent Engines with them as a counter-assault unit to discourage them from coming too close, and it should make life easier at least.
As for the Avenger, you can always get Dark Angels Ravenwing Dark Talon / Nephilim kit.
You can convert 2 Avengers out of it for the price of 1 from Forgeworld.
As for the Avenger, you can always get Dark Angels Ravenwing Dark Talon / Nephilim kit.
You can convert 2 Avengers out of it for the price of 1 from Forgeworld.
Yeah, but the FW one looks cool, and the Nephilim.. meh.
Yes. I added Coteaz strictly for his I've been expecting you to increase the output of my AA. He mans the quad gun with 3 MM servitors. If I know I am playing necron air, I move the quad gun about 16" forward of the rear table edge and about 14" in from the short edge. This gives my exorcists a back corner that forces my opponent to enter my bubble if he wants to shoot at my heavies.
The other thing I am thinking about doing is having the vindicare on one side of the gun with Coteaz and crew on the other. Coteaz can then shoot the gun for his rules and then the vindicare can use it for intercept. Yes, it is completely broken and violates the spirit of the rule, but if you are going to run necron air..... well, I do what I have to to counter it. The way I see it, If I can get 3 -4 additional cracks at flyers in one turn, I have practically doubled the output of that 130 point unit (coteaz and servitors). What more could you ask for? And, if it forces my opponents to stay out of threat range because they are scared of Coteaz, then I bought some additional time for my exorcists to stay alive and shoot.
Hey there everyone!! I play GK with Inquisition but I consider in taking some sisters and I wanted to ask you if I take out my 2x Dreadknights (they both have Incinerator + Teleporter) I can save 470 points . For those points I think -if I had my calculations correctly- I can include :
St. Celestine , 2x Battle Sisters squads (of 10) both having 2x meltaguns and 1x Seraphim squad (of 5) which they go with St. Celestine
Fast Atk:
10x Interceptors w/ 2x psycannons + 8x swords + psy ammo 300
So my question(s) is : do you think the SoB troops I consider to add worth the trade of my 2x Dreadknights? And if they do , do I have to equip them differently (adding chainswords or other heavy weapons I mean)?
I really don't know a lot about SoB but I find them really cool so thanks in advance!!
I've never played with allied force but I'm pretty much sure you need to have one Hq choice and two troop choices in the allied detachment. That's the reason I added two Battle Sisters squads.
Of course I would love to add a Retributor squad but they are heavy support..
I've never played with allied force but I'm pretty much sure you need to have one Hq choice and two troop choices in the allied detachment. That's the reason I added two Battle Sisters squads.
Of course I would love to add a Retributor squad but they are heavy support..
Correct me if I have it wrong..
You have it wrong, here is your correction. This is how the Force Org Chart works in 6th ed.
So you have your 1-2 HQ, 0-3 Elites, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Fast Attack, 0-3 Heavy Support and 0-1 Fortification.
Then you may take allies with 1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 1-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack and 0-1 Heavy Support.
At 2000pts, you get an optional extra set.
I'm trying to come up with a list... that has a Bastion or Fortress of Redemption, Coteaz, some Jokaero, and 9 Penitent Engines... plus the mandatory Celestine, Serpahim and 2 BSS... (then filling the remaining points with Repentia) any thoughts?
This is correct. You must have one HQ and one troops. You MAY add a 2nd troops choice and one of each of the other three slots (Elites, Fast Attack, Heavy)
Thanks a lot for the clarification Ovion!! I'll then consider in taking a Retributor Squad instead of the second Battle Sisters squad then as Green Is Best suggested ..
Another game against the double redeemer list last night and slim victory for my opponent. I really need to get my Dom squad up and running so I can threaten Lars more effectively in the early game.
Gonna start running a bastion soon too. Rets inside but what do people generally use to man the gun on top?? I've got a BSS squad that generally sit on an objective or footslog so couldstick them up their, leaving my objective nearby to run onto near end game. I know the quad wins in terms of math hammer but I'm thinking Icarus as it's cheaper and we should be rerolling 1's if the AoF comes off. What gun do the rest of you run when take fortifications?
The reason the quad wins, is because it is 4, twin linked, Str7 AP4 shots, vs 1 Str9 AP2 shot.
Unless you're specifically going to be facing mass AV13-14 with nothing else to hurt them (So, basically never), then the Quad Gun will be your best bet.
And yes, the math supports it:
With BS4,
For the Icarus that's an average 0.6 hits (up to about 0.7 to 0.8 with reroll 1's).
Then you're getting (Glance+) 1 vs AV10 / 0.8 vs AV11 / 0.6 vs AV12 / 0.5 vs AV13 / 0.3 vs AV14,
or 0.8 wounds against most targets (T7 or less) (assuming no cover / invun saves for anything)
For the Quadgun that's an average 3.5 hits.
Then you're getting (Glance+) 2.3 vs AV10 / 1.8 vs AV11 / 1.2 vs AV12 / 0.6 vs AV13 / 0 vs AV14,
or 2.9 wounds against most targets (T5 or less) (assuming no cover / invun saves for anything) though even against Power Armour it should cause at least 1.5 wounds.
Spectral wrote: Thanks a lot for the clarification Ovion!! I'll then consider in taking a Retributor Squad instead of the second Battle Sisters squad then as Green Is Best suggested ..
You 've been most helpful thanks a lot again !!!
No problem.
Check your inbox, there's more help there
Trouble is my list is already saturated with with stuff that the quad gun can deal with I don't really need more of it. What I do need is stuff that can threaten AV14 at range and limit the damage a heldrakes can put out. Another bonus is that you have the oppotunity to snipe multi wound characters (unless they're in a unit in which case they'll probably LOS it) this is also great against things like Nobz with Warg banners etc.
Like I said in my previous post I know the quad wins in terms of Mathhammer but my list doesn't need further saturation of that kind. As they say 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating' so I might just have to try both and see if the Icarus can fill the role I want or if the further saturation is a better investment for my lists.
Hey all! I have wanted to start a new army and I wanted a mech army with no flyers. I tend to like underdogs so Sisters sounded fun. I play purely competitive so keep that in mind. I wanted input on the following list...
1850
HQ
St. Celestine
Troops
10 SOB - 2 MG, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2 MG, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2 Flamer, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2 Flamer, CM, Rhino
Fast
5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immolator - TLMM 5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immolator - TLMM 5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immolator - TLMM
It looks pretty solid, no Jacobus because really only the Rets need a faith point. Plan to put objectives in midfield and control it with scouting DOMs and sisters camping midfield. Thoughts?
I would probably swap a sisters squad for a Bastion. I might also look at getting a 10 strong dominion in a rhino instead of an immo.
You might also think about taking Kyrinov for your Ret squad. Gives you fearless and a free laud hailer/simulacrum. If you put him in a bastion, it makes a big ol' fearless bubble as well.
evildrcheese wrote:
Trouble is my list is already saturated with with stuff that the quad gun can deal with I don't really need more of it. What I do need is stuff that can threaten AV14 at range and limit the damage a heldrakes can put out. Another bonus is that you have the oppotunity to snipe multi wound characters (unless they're in a unit in which case they'll probably LOS it) this is also great against things like Nobz with Warg banners etc.
Like I said in my previous post I know the quad wins in terms of Mathhammer but my list doesn't need further saturation of that kind. As they say 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating' so I might just have to try both and see if the Icarus can fill the role I want or if the further saturation is a better investment for my lists.
D
The Quadgun is going to be twice as effective at fending off the Heldrakes.
You could consider allying in Coteaz + 3 Jokaero (205pts) to man the icarus lascannon if you use Coteaz's powers to twinlink it all, that's 4 twinlinked lascannons, and what I'm considering for my combi-list.
pretre wrote: I would probably swap a sisters squad for a Bastion. I might also look at getting a 10 strong dominion in a rhino instead of an immo.
You might also think about taking Kyrinov for your Ret squad. Gives you fearless and a free laud hailer/simulacrum. If you put him in a bastion, it makes a big ol' fearless bubble as well.
The problem is with objectives being 5/6 missions I can't see going to only 3 troops. If I could combat squad, maybe but as is 4 troops I think is a competitive minimum. With 55 sisters midfield with Celestine and 7 tanks I don't see my fire base being targeted too much.
It looks pretty solid, no Jacobus because really only the Rets need a faith point. Plan to put objectives in midfield and control it with scouting DOMs and sisters camping midfield. Thoughts?
For the most part I like the list. Lots of melta that gets there fast will do some serious damage. The trouble I see is where to put Celestine. She is paired up very well with a small seraphim unit just to add a couple of shields against s6+. I've thrown her in BSS towards the endgame to keep them on objectives as well.
Consider combi-plasma for the BSS. The sisters points will allow you to re-roll 1's so plasma is a wonderful little TEQ killer.
Why the storm bolter with the rets? i'd use those point for spotlights on some immolators/rhinos.
Hey guys, I was hoping all of you knowledgeable veterans could advise me. I finally got my models in, and I'm going to paint them up and take them to my LGS next weekend. Since people post lists here, I was hoping you guys could critique what I did, and maybe offer advice as towards where to expand? :x
Eissel wrote: Hey guys, I was hoping all of you knowledgeable veterans could advise me. I finally got my models in, and I'm going to paint them up and take them to my LGS next weekend. Since people post lists here, I was hoping you guys could critique what I did, and maybe offer advice as towards where to expand? :x
HQ - Cannoness (Bare) - 65 points
Troops: Sisters Squad, Rhino, Flamer - 165 Points
Sisters Squad, Rhino, Flamer - 165 Points
Heavy Support
Retributors Squad, basic. (Cannoness goes here)
4 Heavy Bolters Simulacrum Imperialus
All sister superiors have bolters.
Thanks!
Standard rhetoric really: Celestine, maybe Seraphim, Exorcists. Add some Repentia and/or Penitent Engines for flavour. Get an Aegis or Bastion for your rets + some anti-air in the form of a quadgun.
What you have so far looks alright - I know a lot of people don't like Canonesses, but she'll be alright manning an emplacement. Could also get some Meltas for your BSS's if they're going in close?
Hey all, not real sure if this has been covered in the last 112 pages, but has anyone considered the benefits of running a Canoness with a Repentia squad? Obviously her +1I is lost, but Preferred Enemy can make those hits really count, especially for the Spirit of the Martyr attacks at the end.
I know this probably isn't a new concept, and I know there's almost no reason to take her with celestine and jacobus available, but I thought while Celestine is flying around making things cry, the Canoness could be hitting something really hard with the Repentia.
Anyways, any thoughts on that? Anyone want to tell me its a waste? Lol anyways, just looking for other things to do.
Also, I love this figure and finally got around to painting it
Can you guys do me a favor? I am using battlefoam to build custom foam trays for future sisters army. How tall is the GW Exorcist from the tallest pipe to the bottom of the rhino chassis? And same for an immolator and rhino please. I'm trying to figure out how thick of foam I need.
If your going to do the Canoness thing it would be better to go with a priest or even better a confessor. with repentia its unlikely the combat will go past 1 round so the righteous rage thing works better than preferred enemy.
Got in my first three games (ever) with my sisters today, I went 1-2.
First game was against a BT army, 2000 points. He wanted to send them out in style before the new codex came, and ran a couple blob squads, two terminator squads, a LR crusader, two lascannon razorbacks, an assault squad and two combat squads with ML and LC, as well as a commander in TA and the emperor's champion. We rolled for the scouring (I think it was...) and had five objectives. I ran two BSS in rhinos, a ret squad with an ADL, 2x MM, 2x HB, a dom squad in an Immolator w/ MM, a meltagun two exorcists and a seraphim squad with Celestine as my HQ, then allied in some GK for fun, to include Draigo, a few paladins and a Dreadknight. We pretty much ignored the objectives, he ran at me and I shot in return. He wiped the two BSS's after popping the rhinos, Celestine died and came back immediately to wreak some havoc, and in the end neither of us had an objective, but there were a lot of dead models. He won slightly by victory points.
Game two was at 1500 against an IG army, playing the relic, hammer and anvil on a very dense, city fight like board. He ran a vendetta, basilisk, DA allies with an interrogator chaplain and sniper scouts, three lascannons, three autocannnons, a LR Executioner ? (FW turret tank hunting thing), vets in the vendetta and a couple blobs of guard with a commissar manning his quad gun. I had three BSS of ten each, a Ret squad with 2x MM and 2x HB on the quad gun, Jacobus with one squad, celestine on her own, the Exorcists in cover, and two 6 pax Dom squads outflanking in Immolaters, one with MM and the other HF. He popped my Exorcists pretty early with his LR and LC's, while Celestine just ran up like a boss and took on a his IG blob with the chaplain making them fearless. She killed maybe 15 or so of them before dying, only to get back up. I managed to kill the vet squad that was airdropped carrying the relic, then went toe to toe with the last man standing (the interrogator chaplain), while the relic sat. Both of my Dom squads outflanked and proceeded to kill his warlord and blob squad behind the ADL with help from the disembarked Dom squads. At the end of the game we were both near the relic but without possession, so it came down to my slay the warlord and line breaker points.
Game three was kill points at 2,000 agains a pure ravenwing. He ran five landspeeders with ML and the LS Vengeance thing (whichever one provides the invuln save), Sammael on his jetbike, three attack bikes w/MM, and a whole bunch of bikes, plus a command squad, librarian on a bike, apothecary, etc. I ran my above 1,500 list of sisters plus another 500 ish of GK, to inclued Coteaz, two space monkes, a plasma gunner, 5x GK terminators and a Dreadknight that I forgot... and never brought in to play. Yeah, I was that guy. The table was the same as the second game, with Dawn of War deployment. I managed to do some solid damage and killed pretty much all of his bikes and Sammael, but in the end, his landspeeders (with twin linking from the librarian) were able to cause enough wounds that I lost by kill points. Celestine died three times, the last at the end of turn seven, while if she had lived (and killed the librarian she was fighting) it would have been a tie. Fun game either way, it was hard to deal with his 48" range landspeeder missile spam, and with twin linking, I could only make so many cover saves. End of turn seven everything was dead except Jacobus and the bulk of one BSS, while his landspeeders were all alive, along with one attack bike, his librarian, and another 3 man bike squad. Also, if I had remembered the damn Dreadknight I paid 180 or so points on, that might have help too.
A bit long and rambling, but I want to say thanks to all those who post SoB stuff on this thread, its been great and I really enjoyed finally playing a few games with the nuns. Plus, everyone loved seeing them in action, everybody else was rooting for the bolter girls.
So, the Canoness doesn't really fit with the Soritas Command Squad, or the Celestians really, and now you say a 45pt Priest does better with prety much the only Sororitas melee unit? Where does the Canoness fit then? She's got to fit in somewhere...
Played a 2000 point list against Orks recently. from memory this was his list
HQ Big Mek KFF, battlewagon
Big mek KFF, battlewagon
Troops
3x 30 shoota boyz, nob with PK, boss pole
Elites?
12 Burnas
Fast
10 Ork Bikers
Heavy
12 lootas
My list for Sisters was
HQ Celestine
Cannoness, rosary, power sword
Command squad, 3 heavy bolters,
Troop
3x BSS, melta, flamer, CF(leader), rhino, search light, storm bolter
Elite
Repentia+5
Repentia+1
Fast
Dominion+1, 2 flamer, combi flamer, Immo, multimelta
Seraphim+5, 2 Hand flamers.
Heavy
3x Exorcist
Hammer and anvil with big guns never tire. Very heavy terrain, like walking through the grand canyon. He set up first, I kept my Dominions and Seraphim in reserves. I Stole initiative and it was night fighting, So a very uneventful first turn with both armies moving closer to the middle
Turn 2
With night fighting over with i moved all my rhinos in a line to block line of sight for my Repentia. moved the cannoness closer and got endless crusade faith. shooting phase i killed one biker and one loota with 3 exorcist. (kinda forgot about KFF and bikers exhaust rule.) My Command squad opened up with the heavy bolters and killed 7 boys. His turn was moving forward and taking pop shots at my girls, managed to strip a hullpoint off one an exorcist.
Turn 3
Both dominions and Seraphim come in, Dominions set up behind his battlewagon on the right table edge. Blew it up with the immolator, then flamed the Big mek with the dominions, killing it. Seraphine deepstruck in and flamed/shot a whole boyz squad off the table. Repentia almost ready to strike. Exorcists kill off the other battlewagon. Command squad moves back and fires.killing 9 boyz. HIS turn. he moves his warbikers up the middle and wreck the rhino. shoots his lootas and strips another hullpoint off of my exorcist. Forgot the other battle wagon had burnas, so he flamed my seraphim. 86 wounds ouch. Kills off the dominions and Immo.
Turn 4
Unload all my BSS and start going for objectives. charge Celestine into the lootas to tie them up, aaannd dies during assaulting. Repentia kill of the entire biker squad. BSS kill off the burnas. 2nd repentia squad assault in and kill his big mek. His turn. he moves his shoota boyz up and fires, killing off my 3 heavy bolters in my command squad,even with FNP. end turn
Turn 5
Celestine gets back up with full wounds restored, charges closest boyz squad. His turn. shoots his lootas at my exorcist, fails to hurt it. doesnt kill celestine in combat. Rolled for game end, It does. score is 6 to 1
What I learned?
Command squads are pretty neat, Dont forget cover save items, dont forget where the burnas are.
The Cry of the Wind wrote:So, the Canoness doesn't really fit with the Soritas Command Squad, or the Celestians really, and now you say a 45pt Priest does better with prety much the only Sororitas melee unit? Where does the Canoness fit then? She's got to fit in somewhere...
-CotW
I hear people used to use Ethereals as objective markers...
At the end of the day, the unfortunate thing is, she's very expensive for what she is - a naked Chaos Lord is 65pts too, but has +1WS, +1S, +1T, +1I, Fearless and a CCW instead of a Boltgun, everything else, bar Shield of Faith does kind of even out, but that's hardly worth +4 to stats and Fearless.
But if you want to run her, that's fine, she'll do the job, and especially if you put her on a Quad gun or something, the BS5 comes in handy.
If you want to bring a command squad then you need a cannoness. I'm not convinced its worth it as they're only real trick is to bring heavy weapons and 'relentless' through their faith. Even if you do bring the cannoness as an hq is the command squad the best place to put her? seems like a waste of a good shooty squad to be trying to get into hand to hand.
Sisters do a good job of making specialized units. DCA/crusaders or repentia are amazing in assault and if you put a character in there like jacobus (best one possible for DCA units), a confessor, a priest or a cannoness then they get that much better. Either unit will basically kill anything they get into contact with unless you screwed up and put DCA's against AV13 walkers or something.
I haven't found a place for a cannoness in my force. I wish she had a jump pack or changed the force org or something (celestians, repentia or seraphim as troops or something) but we have what we have.
In my last game I used a cannoness and command squad. It was useful, but not very effective. Other than getting more heavy bolters on the field I probably wont use them very much in upcoming games.
I use a canoness with x3 heavy bolters and have the canoness man the quad gun. Feel no Pain is useful for survival. (from the hospitilar) Is it the BEST use of your points? Probably not. But I've been using Canoness Helena since SOB first came out and I aint stopping now.
Yeah, I did like using her with the hospitilar and 3 Heavy bolters. Was fun, not the most effective, but fun. the hospitilar is probably one of my favorite models in this game
I think if I were to do the command squad I'd probably run it with 3x multi melta. I do love the idea of jumping out of a rhino 12" away and hitting on 3+ for a melta weapon. Unfortunately, the Dom's serve the same role... not as survivable and need to be closer of course.
I took my Sisters with Coteaz allies to a tournament this weekend. Went 2-1. Beat IG with GK allies. Lost to Tau, then beat Tau.
And, the Tau list I lost to had 4 hammerheads and 2 riptides at 1850. (Allied Tau in with new supplement). Had epic dice failure in the last three rounds (of 7) which ended up costing me the game. Actually had a legitimate shot of winning until my exoricsts proceeded to roll one's to wound on 8 out of 9 shots against a contesting riptide with only one wound left. That, combined with St. C deciding to take the 2nd half of the game off hurt as well. But, such is life.
Things I learned:
Coteaz on a quad gun makes life difficult for enemy flyers. I ran him with 3 MM Servitors. I also had a razorback, but I am thinking about ditching that for crusaders in this squad to make them more resilient.
10 Dominions with 4 flamers make Kroot cry.
The Vindicare Assassin is a complete jerk. Nobody likes him.
I am thinking I need a squad of Seraphim to escort St. C around. Running her naked is nice, but it has definite drawbacks.
I'm still undecided on the Vindicare. He's such a glass cannon for his price that i'm not sure he's worth it. What did he accomplish during your tourney Green?
war wrote: I'm still undecided on the Vindicare. He's such a glass cannon for his price that i'm not sure he's worth it. What did he accomplish during your tourney Green?
Stripped a riptide of its invul save... then actually finished it off in close combat. Yes, you read that right. He assaulted my vindicare. After 2 rounds of nothing, he stuck a grenade to it and it failed its 2+ and 5+ save. This was the main reason he joined this list. Him plus some exorcists make a nasty 1-2 punch against Riptides.
Took out a basilsk against IG.
Took out a few crisis suits in the 3rd game.
He actually survived 2 out of 3 games. This was not for lack of trying by my opponents. He was parked in ruins with a 3+ cover 4+ invul that he just kept making. And, to be honest, my play style with sisters is that I have 3 dominion squads in your face along with St. Celestine. Most of the time they are ignoring my back field in order to deal with that.
I think I am dropping razorback and acolytes in exhchange for crusaders. They would go with the servitors and give ablative 3+ invul saves to that unit, allowing the servitors and Coteaz to do their thing.
Of course, this list will be significantly overhauled once the new SM codex comes out. I run White Scars and Raven Guard and if the rumors are true, they will dovetail nicely with this list. MORE SCOUTING UNITS!!!! HOORAY!!
We have very similar lists. I still like to use the bodyguard unit but as I collect more sisters I've been using dominion more and more.
I guess that the vindicare is very feast or famine then. They do inspire a lot of dread in some opponents, and get shot up a lot as a result. I may have to use them more to give them more of a chance to do their thing. We'll see.
It would be interesting if we ever meet up at Legions. I was kinda hoping you were going to show up at their last tourney because Duncan told me that you exist and i'd love to see your sisters. Met a sisters player who was with the Snake-eyes group. He had an impressive collection.
As far as the Coteaz and henchman squad, what do you think would look good for more Sister-ly looking conversions for everything? I have some ideas for Coteaz and plasma acolytes, but nothing really for PC Servitors.
I was at the Johnstown event this weekend. I haven't made it to Legions on Friday nights for a while, but I may start going again. I was unaware of the one that just happened, but I plan on being at the October event.
It was painful and I ended up losing, I had no idea how to deal with it.
My list was:
Canoness (Bare, had no real knowledge of what to do with her)
10 man BSS Squad, Flamer, Rhino
10 man BSS squad, Flamer, Rhino
Retributors, 4 heavy bolters + Simulacrum (Canoness went here)
My opponent took-
Ethereal
2x 10 man Fire Warrior Squad
Riptide (I don't know what the wargear is called, it used a str 8 AP 2 blast)
My rhinos got popped on turn 2 by firewarriors. The ripride wholesale slaughtered my Sisters. On turn 4 I managed to take it from six wounds to zero with a really lucky round of Retributor fire, but then I just got cleaned up by fire warriors.
That was the most painful, agonizing experience I have ever felt.
At that low of a point level, not really much. Low point games really suffer because you can simply bring a single MC, flyer, horde, 2+ unit, etc. and you can utterly destroy your opponent. They won't have enough points to dedicate to a unit to counter it while still fielding a well rounded army.
The only possible suggestion I could think of is move units up using LoS blocking terrain or just sit everything back and hope your retributors can kill it first.
Yes, I have literally put 1,850 points of sisters firepower into one riptide for a turn and failed to kill it. Those things are simply mean. The best thing you could have done is assaulted it with your BSS (assuming you ever got that close) and then hopefully tied it up for a few turns while you wipe out the rest of his army.
Yeah Celestine probably would've helped alot here. I probably would've ignored the riptide and just tried to cripple his hq and troops. What mission was it and what set up?
evildrcheese wrote: Yeah Celestine probably would've helped alot here. I probably would've ignored the riptide and just tried to cripple his hq and troops. What mission was it and what set up?
I've been trying to figure out how you could -get- Repentia to a Riptide.
If you don't get your transport blown up then murdered, you have to sit outside of it for one turn and hope it's giga-jump thing doesn't take it out of charge range.
Best bet to take out riptides is the exorcists. They can cripple them into hiding after 1 round if you get good rolls.
So let me get this scenerio correct. Your somewhat new at the game, and new with the sisters. Your opponent brings his Riptide to the fight? I hope that this is not a seasoned player with years of experience.
Assuming its not, your list wasn't bad. The rets squad with heavy bolters can rip through fire warriors like nothing. Depending on terrain you could probably kill off 7 or so fire warriors per shooting phase and you would out range him as an added bonus (and of course have armor... something the tau haven't developed yet).
If the tau have to come to you... you already probably won.
I wonder if you could put together a list with:
2x BSS 5 rets with HB 1 exorcist
My guess is that he would send his riptide after you and leave the fire warriors cowering like the xeno's scum they are. Cool thing about that is that you could focus fire on the riptide. If its neutralized then start picking off the fire warriors at will. If he wants to shoot back he'll have to break cover.
war wrote: Best bet to take out riptides is the exorcists. They can cripple them into hiding after 1 round if you get good rolls.
So let me get this scenerio correct. Your somewhat new at the game, and new with the sisters. Your opponent brings his Riptide to the fight? I hope that this is not a seasoned player with years of experience.
Assuming its not, your list wasn't bad. The rets squad with heavy bolters can rip through fire warriors like nothing. Depending on terrain you could probably kill off 7 or so fire warriors per shooting phase and you would out range him as an added bonus (and of course have armor... something the tau haven't developed yet).
If the tau have to come to you... you already probably won.
I wonder if you could put together a list with:
2x BSS 5 rets with HB 1 exorcist
My guess is that he would send his riptide after you and leave the fire warriors cowering like the xeno's scum they are. Cool thing about that is that you could focus fire on the riptide. If its neutralized then start picking off the fire warriors at will. If he wants to shoot back he'll have to break cover.
This was my fourth ever game, first with sisters. I have no idea how long the Tau player had been playing, but I think he mentioned having somewhere around ~4000 points of Tau in his collection so I assume it's been for a while.
Since his fire warriors were hiding in ruins I figured I'd try and kill the riptide first. I didn't cause a single wound until turn four when I apparantly broke the laws of reality and rolled 10 rending wounds on it.
By then though, both of my rhinos had been destroyed, and I had my 4 rets (Luckily the only one he killed was the superior and the canonness) and 3 battle sisters, with one flamer.
Looking back I should've moved my rets back just out of reach and started wailing on him but I think it was too late by that point anyway.
Considering your level of experience, and his, and what he chose to bring against you, it was well-nigh pointless to bring anything at all. That you killed the riptide was good enough to build on.
Points limits this low will always favour armies that can bring something hard to deal with, like leman russ variants, a land raider, one or more big MCs, a flyer, a horde, etc. Sisters cannot do this.
I faced tau twice in a recent tournie and ignored the riptides and focused on other things and then dumped exorcist missiles into them turn 3 or 4, pretty much crippling them.fear those plasma suits way more
I
Riptides tend to soak a lot more fire than they do actual damage. Their real danger is in the attention they can fool you into giving them.
Unlkess you have Vanguard vets big enough to charge them out of existence (and this DOES work well) or you are DEAD CERTAIN you have the firepower to end one in a single turn, Kill something else and keep pressing the field on Tau. Getting into a shooting gallery match with them is pointless. You need to get up there and fast, firing the whole time and deal with it in melee if you can. Too easy for them to shift a unit in your way that doesn't matter when trying to reach that Riptide and they can BOUNCE in front of you to lure you and then bounce back while youre exposed for no gain to you.
Vanguard Vets can be really helpful, as can Zakstruk (orks) and even Saint Celestine since she can pop up after dying and get to a Riptide. Ultimately though, Outflanking dominion might be the best answer Sisters have for that.
Yes. I agree with ignoring the riptides for the most part. I tend to focus on killing pathfinders and anything else with marker lights first. I also like to use exorcists and dominions with meltas to take out those stupid suits. Once those are gone, I make a judgement call on the mission. 9 times out of 10 I continue to ignore the riptides until his troops are gone.
Yea, thats pretty much my take on them as well. I've been able to kill a couple riptides (exorcist shots, dominion melta/gernades, and even once with death cult assassins because 16 power axe attacks are wonderful things... just hard to catch the building-sized robot)
Marker lights are always my first priority, then whatever troops are around. The stupid deep-striking bodyguard unit is game breaking if made correctly, but can still be caught on fire. As long as they don't have the 2+ cover save going exorcists and melta work well on them but you need to clear out any shield drones first.
They're not unbeatable, and they're one of the few armies that BSS squads can beat in assault. Their troops really don't like fire, something sisters do well with. I think the biggest problem you have is that at 500 points your BSS tax hurts your chance of bringing any of the cool toys.
Green is Best! wrote: And, the Tau list I lost to had 4 hammerheads and 2 riptides at 1850. (Allied Tau in with new supplement).
That sounds sketchy. I'm pretty sure you can't ally a codex with itself or its own supplement.
Farsight can.
The allies list is crazy now.
To expand on this, when I first saw it, I thought people were crazy, but no, basically every Supplement apart from Eldar just makes a new Army List that's able to ally with it's parent codex.
I mean, this is how the Sisters of Battle Allies Matrix looks like now:
Each supplement basically adding new Army Lists to the matrix.
(For added fun, this is what the Space Marine one will look like, though it is at least only for Space Marines:
Jancoran wrote: Riptides tend to soak a lot more fire than they do actual damage. Their real danger is in the attention they can fool you into giving them.
I finally agree with Jancoran on something.
I find this true of Wraithknights as well. In a recent tournament, I ignored the WK and just focused on the rest of his army until I had the extra shooting to take him down. Then celestine mopped him up (Doesn't matter your toughness if you have a 3+ save against Celestine).
As did I at OFCC. I let the Wraithknight plink away from midfield and just moved around it. I use mobile forces, so this is easier to do for me (and frankly these are the exact matchups where mobility wins over any boring kill ratio stat anyone could post).
I think staying frosty is key. If they ULTIMATELY reach something and kill it: okay. Cant win every close combat. But you can kind of dictate his options.
Had a good hame last night vs Necrons, resulted in a minor loss which I was pretty pleased with as I find Crons atough matchup.
It was Emperors Will on the diagnol set up. The Sisters managed to hold their own, I was able to bring strong synergy with my units and cripple entire enermy units in a single shooting phase. Hand to hand was surprisingly effective against the crons, managed to win a few combats and even chase him.off his objective - and then I was shot off it again. He failed to move me off my objective but had to have a unit ofImmortals fall back to reclaim his home objective. He won off secondaries (both got line breaker, but he got first blood - no one go warlord). Tactically I think i did gthe right things but I had alot of bad dice and my meltas failed to do the damagedI needed when I got them in 2d6 range and necrons can bring some serious mid-short range fire power that I couldn't compete with. Really good game though.
One thing that came up was Celestine got her armour eaten by scarabs then later died. Question when she came back should she have got her armour back? We played it that she didn't but weren't sure if it was the right decision...thoughts?
One thing that came up was Celestine got her armour eaten by scarabs then later died. Question when she came back should she have got her armour back? We played it that she didn't but weren't sure if it was the right decision...thoughts?
D
I believe you played it correctly - I think one of the FAQs (the Necron FAQ?) makes it clear she does not get her armor back when she stands up - but I don't have access to anything around me to check.
So I've updated and added to my Sisters Repentia units, and added a list of things I'll be making shortly.
Sisters of Battle Extended Codex Thread Comments appreciated, and if there's anything else you'd like to see made, throw it in there!
So updated list and wanted some feedback... (not sure if foot sister squad is any good).
St. Celestine
10 SOB - 2xMG, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2xMG, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2 Flamer, CM, Rhino
10 SOB - 2xMG
5 DOM - 2xMG, CM, Immo - TLMM 5 DOM - 2xMG, CM, Immo - TLMM 5 DOM - 2xMG, CM, Immo - TLMM
6 RETS - 4 HB, Simalcrum
Exorcist
Exorcist
ADL Quad Gun
I really want a 4 troop but couldn't find points for a rhino for them. Are they ok on foot trailing 6 rhinos and St. Celestine? Flyer heavy meta so the rending quad gun will be nice. Thoughts?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Additionally where can I find the stats/info for Forgeworld flyers that Sisters can take? I know one is Avenger but don't know where most recent rules are.
Avenger is the only one. I would drop the combis on the BSS to get a third rhino. Alternatively, drop the combis and get a Bastion. Put the BSS on the top and the Rets inside.
pretre wrote: Avenger is the only one. I would drop the combis on the BSS to get a third rhino. Alternatively, drop the combis and get a Bastion. Put the BSS on the top and the Rets inside.
Not true! There's the Arvus Lighter and Aquilla Lander too! xD
pretre wrote: Avenger is the only one. I would drop the combis on the BSS to get a third rhino. Alternatively, drop the combis and get a Bastion. Put the BSS on the top and the Rets inside.
Not true! There's the Arvus Lighter and Aquilla Lander too! xD
Thanks for the quick replies. If I do go bastion how is the following list....
St. Celestine
10 SOB - 2x MG, CM, Rhino w/ searchlight
10 SOB - 2x MG, CM, Rhino w/ searchlight
10 SOB - 2x Flamer, Rhino w/ searchlight
10 SOB - HB (bastion roof QG)
5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immo w/ TLMM 5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immo w/ TLMM 5 DOM - 2 MG, CM, Immo w/ TLMM
Exorcist
Exorcist
6 RETS - 4 HB, Simalcrum
Bastion - Quad Gun
So Rets inside the bastion firing 5 HB (1 emplaced) that are all rending correct? Even the emplaced weaps? 10 Sisters on top firing quad gun and heavy bolter, then can jump down to grab an objective behind the bastion. Both exorcists use the bastion as LOS blocking terrain to better hide. 6 rhino/immos and St. Celestine push midfield. What do you think?
PS
Are Sisters models tall enough to see over the battlements? Haven't seen one in person yet.
Your sisters will find it hard to shoot at anything close to the Bastion, unless it's something tall (like a Riptide). But almost any infantry model will have the same problem.
Power Mauls: feasible? Just got the Superior model that's holding one, and I figured that they'd be very useful against the sorts of units that the Sisters can feasibly hold their own against in assault, and apparently they're good for challenges against such enemies. You guys had much success with them?
I had a thought about tactics. I was contemplating a battle against Tau and how SOB could win. Let me run this by you. A SOB army to go against Tau: Use 3 squadrons of Penitent Engines and Repentia with Celestine at the front followed by your troops in rhinos. Charge them all up as fast as you possibly can. 9 PE's might be too much for the Tau to take out and the Repentia right behind them can takle the Riptide or whatever else. A PE once in close combat with squishy infantry is a beast and wouldn't take too many of them to survive to slaughter the Tau. Anyone ever try this? I think it has the potential to table a Tau army, but all I have is theoretical.
That won't work out to well, PE have weak armour value so that even the basic tau fire warriors will kill them. I mean those fire warriors would simply slaughter those repentias as they wound on 2's. Tau can spam strength 6+ easy enough to keep Celestine insta deathed every turn. No one you have will be able to catch the riptide let alone kill it.
The best way I think is to deepstrike several handflamers directly onto them to force them to run.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: That won't work out to well, PE have weak armour value so that even the basic tau fire warriors will kill them. I mean those fire warriors would simply slaughter those repentias as they wound on 2's. Tau can spam strength 6+ easy enough to keep Celestine insta deathed every turn. No one you have will be able to catch the riptide let alone kill it.
The best way I think is to deepstrike several handflamers directly onto them to force them to run.
Yes, but can they deal with so many PE's Repentia and Celestine before they get into CC? That's the question. 9 PE's are a lot of targets and even if they managed to kill them, they'd have Celistine, Repentia and the squads to deal with. (All at the same time is the crux of the matter.)
This week I decided to try something new that I read in this thread, instead of running my dominion squads in Immolators I ran one large squad in a rhino and I was not disappointed.
First game they very nearly wiped out a whole squad of Sanguinary guard + HQ after they took the BSS bait next to the board edge. Then in the second game they munched up two Predators then spent the rest of the game failing to kill an empty immobilized land raider.
Overall I'm pleasntly surprised at the effectiveness of the larger Dominion squad and am very tempted to replace one of my immolator squads should points allow.
Madcat87 wrote: This week I decided to try something new that I read in this thread, instead of running my dominion squads in Immolators I ran one large squad in a rhino and I was not disappointed.
First game they very nearly wiped out a whole squad of Sanguinary guard + HQ after they took the BSS bait next to the board edge. Then in the second game they munched up two Predators then spent the rest of the game failing to kill an empty immobilized land raider.
Overall I'm pleasntly surprised at the effectiveness of the larger Dominion squad and am very tempted to replace one of my immolator squads should points allow.
Yeah, I love my large squad and it does wonderful things each game I play with it. Even as a deterrent... it exerts board control which is more and more crucial with all the high mobility units around these days.
Shandara wrote: Your sisters will find it hard to shoot at anything close to the Bastion, unless it's something tall (like a Riptide). But almost any infantry model will have the same problem.
Not true, there's lower down fire points on the bastion.
edit: oh you're talking top. Yeah, it is hard to shoot close things from the top.
So I have spent the last week reading this all of this truly amazing thread!!
Here are two Q's from pages in the past:
Q: Celestine is pretty much always great. Keep in mind that Kyrinov's bubble is 6" from the vehicle if he is embarked. It makes for a hard to shift objective holding position
.
Where is the rule that it extends from vehicle? Don't saying it is wrong, just don't know where to look.
When firing an exorcist launcher, what point on the weapon is considered to be the ‘barrel’ of the weapon for measuring purposes?
(p100)
A: Any of the pipes of the organ.
As bad as a player this will make me I am going to choose to ignore the entry about the exorcist. Thats just a load of croc. It dosent even have skyfire so GW is simply saying, - Eff you SoB players. I will, of course, make it known to an opponent the ruling and if they are inclined to agree with the ruling then I iwll simply not play with them. I feel like making a vehicle practically useless was a bad move on GW's part.
Regarding the LOS from the organ pipes. Why is that bad? I mean barrels / weapons are pointing in all possible directions on different models. Infantry with guns pointed upwards; the Basilisk and Manticore are aiming over any target at say 3" etc.
Fav quote on page 68:
Well, this thread isn't dying but we've pretty much said what we can about Sisters
Oh, and at one point wishes were listed, here is mine: GK taking the Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor would allow GK allying with the Sisters as Battle Bothers!
Q: Celestine is pretty much always great. Keep in mind that Kyrinov's bubble is 6" from the vehicle if he is embarked. It makes for a hard to shift objective holding position
.
Where is the rule that it extends from vehicle? Don't saying it is wrong, just don't know where to look.
Rulebook FAQ:
Q: Do embarked passengers with ‘area of effect’ wargear, such as
the Big Mek’s Kustom Force Field, measure the range of such items
from the hull of the transport they are embarked upon? (p78)
A: Yes.
Regarding the LOS from the organ pipes. Why is that bad? I mean barrels / weapons are pointing in all possible directions on different models. Infantry with guns pointed upwards; the Basilisk and Manticore are aiming over any target at say 3" etc.
They point straight up, so you can only aim at things that are above them. No one plays it that way, but still...
Oh, and at one point wishes were listed, here is mine: GK taking the Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor would allow GK allying with the Sisters as Battle Bothers!
Malkyr wrote: Possibly heretical thought here, but has anyone thought about using their Sister's figs for counts as Marines in the new dex?
I'm thinking using the Salamanders chapter tactic for the flamer rerolls obviously.
Absolutely not, but I was thinking of using SM allies and make them look like Sisters of Battle. I was thinking of getting Centurions and modding SOB helms on them and one of those AA rhinos covered in SOB iconography. Just because.
Nah, gonna keep my SoB as So. I did briefly consider running my BA as normal SM, but even then Nah. I'll wait for a new book for each. I wonder which will come first?
Troike wrote: Power Mauls: feasible? Just got the Superior model that's holding one.
A very nice model to be sure, got one myself. But how can I field a Power Maul on anything except DCA/Crusaders (and the special character)? My WD codex lists Power Sword as the only option for any of the SoB units. When I open Army Builder it does list the PW choices.
Is there some FAQ I've missed or have the guys entering WH40K lists for AB made a wish list?
- the power weapons for the Superiors and Meltabombs (+50 Points) - Dozers for Rhinos and Immos on BSS +(15 Points) - Change BSS Immos to Rhinos (+60 points) - Upgrade Immolator on Doms to MM (-15 Points) - Drop Searchlights on Exorcists (+3) - Add searchlights to Rhinos (-3) - Drop Melta Bombs on Rets (+5) - Get a bastion if you have one for your rets (-25) 90 Extra Points
I would probably drop a BSS for another dominion personally. (+190 for drop) 10 Doms with 2 Flamers/2 Melta in Rhino (SL, Dozer) - 206
Then maybe fill out some combis for the doms and mounted BSS. (Maybe get a spare rhino or the last BSS as well).
He can't drop a BSS as he's going for double FoC. But I agree with everything else here. No need for immos, they are expensive and cannot carry the squads they are with. If forgeworld is allowed then consider using spare points to add repressors instead of immos. AV13 is nothing to be sniffed at and will make you BSS much more mobile until later on in the game.
I would keep the melta bombs. I can't remember a game I was ever disappointed I took them.
Thats a lot of exorcists shots. You should get a searchlight for whatever you put your Doms in. Assume the Dom's vehicle will not survive after the Doms get out regardless of searchlights, so its a good one to have the lights on.
I go back and forth about putting lights on the BSS rhinos in my lists. I don't want them being noticed... but I don't like the exorcists shots being wasted either. Definitely put them on the rhinos before the exorcists though.
I know that Pretre is obsessed with Bastions, but i'm still not convinced. I will say that they make for great dice cups when you have to roll too many dice for your hands to hold easily.
war wrote: I would keep the melta bombs. I can't remember a game I was ever disappointed I took them.
Thats a lot of exorcists shots. You should get a searchlight for whatever you put your Doms in. Assume the Dom's vehicle will not survive after the Doms get out regardless of searchlights, so its a good one to have the lights on.
I go back and forth about putting lights on the BSS rhinos in my lists. I don't want them being noticed... but I don't like the exorcists shots being wasted either. Definitely put them on the rhinos before the exorcists though.
I know that Pretre is obsessed with Bastions, but i'm still not convinced. I will say that they make for great dice cups when you have to roll too many dice for your hands to hold easily.
I put searchlights on all rhinos and immolators. When you need them, they come in very handy. Very few people I play against ever remember to use them. Consequently, most players will deploy thinking they are safe because of night fighting. Then, you scout up, light them up like Christmas with your Dominions. Then, your exorcists can fire at them without being seen, at max range. Best 1 point spent in the entire codex.
Thanks for the ideas! I kinda like the excuse to sisterfy a bastion (instead of doing it to an ADL). Searchlights on the exo's will go. Guess I need to put Immos elsewhere as I really like them.
i really hope that when they get around to re-doing the sisters we get a useful immo. If it was fast, had scout, or (even better) had torrent then i'd take them every time. 6' movement flamers just don't usually cut it though
Automatically Appended Next Post: lol, 6" that is. 6 foot movement would be wonderful!
Ok, I managed to get another Dom in and keeping two Immos, but it meant no Bastion. And sadly, no Simulacrum. 12 points unused, maybe for a Ret Sister or a Combi weapon and two searchlights for the Immos. Yes, it is a lot of shoots for Exorcists, averaging 10-11 in theory but prob around 5 in a game!
Mk II:
Saint Celestine115 Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith90
So, I think I made probably near the best 2k take all comers sisters list you can really get, with an emphasis on killing the meta game right now, which is footslogging and non transport vehicle type armies. Sisters did not take a hit from transitioning into 6th and in fact the army is stronger than ever. We get free warlord traits (Outflank with Celestine and her Seraphim squad is brutal) and we did not get weakened by the transport/assault issue everyone is having problems with because we're a close proximity shooty army who almost always chooses to 1, stay in vehicles and shoot unless we have the clear advantage and 2, we almost always choose to shoot over assaulting. Anyway enough rambling, on to my list.
HQ
Celestine - 115
Troops
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Fast
Seraphim x 9 - 180
Dual Hand Flamers x 2
Dominion Squad x 4 - 201
Flamer x 4, Combi Flamer
Rhino
Search Light
Dominion Squad x 4 - 201
Flamer x 4, Combi Flamer
Rhino
Search Light
Heavy
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Fortification
Aegis - 70 (For exorcists to gain a 4+ and to reroll outflank/deepstrike)
Comm Relay
1999
The comm relay will really help in times that you want to either deep strike or outflank the seraphim, or the dominion squads, such as when facing IG armies. The combined punch of the 1 seraphim 2 dominion squads offers the same unit in triplicate, making sure that at least one of the units survives, to completely devastate a few units being able to both shred elites and infantry. Celestine is the best HQ in the game especially for her points, she makes her seraphim fearless and her seraphim give her reroll to wound on her flamer and give her hit and run, which she passes on int 7, which is anything but a 1, 9 seraphim and celestine is the dark horse unit of the game, and probably the most powerful unit for killing troops and elites consistently and without fail.
Sisters of Battle are stronger than ever with the introduction to 6th, the only thing we lack is options in units and the fact that the models are too expensive and the codex is not easily accessible.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
war wrote: i really hope that when they get around to re-doing the sisters we get a useful immo. If it was fast, had scout, or (even better) had torrent then i'd take them every time. 6' movement flamers just don't usually cut it though
Automatically Appended Next Post: lol, 6" that is. 6 foot movement would be wonderful!
Immolators with dominions in them have scout. Taking 5 dominions with 2 flamer 1 combi and a immolator gives a lot of flame punch for cheap (and that 12 inch scout move)
CoteazRox wrote:Ok, I managed to get another Dom in and keeping two Immos, but it meant no Bastion. And sadly, no Simulacrum. 12 points unused, maybe for a Ret Sister or a Combi weapon and two searchlights for the Immos. Yes, it is a lot of shoots for Exorcists, averaging 10-11 in theory but prob around 5 in a game!
Spoiler:
Mk II:
Saint Celestine115 Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith90
Exorcist135 Exorcist135 Exorcist135 5 Retributors: Retributor Superior (chainsword); 4× heavy bolter. 85
Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon. 85
1.988 points
I would consider the following: If you drop the Drozer Blades from the Doms' Immos and the PW & Melta Bombs from the Seraphim Superior, you have enough points for either another Rhino for the first BSS or some ablative wounds for the Ret squad. Just something to consider. Otherwise looks great to me. Good luck with it.
Now onto the next list...
Kreedos wrote:So, I think I made probably near the best 2k take all comers sisters list you can really get, with an emphasis on killing the meta game right now, which is footslogging and non transport vehicle type armies. Sisters did not take a hit from transitioning into 6th and in fact the army is stronger than ever. We get free warlord traits (Outflank with Celestine and her Seraphim squad is brutal) and we did not get weakened by the transport/assault issue everyone is having problems with because we're a close proximity shooty army who almost always chooses to 1, stay in vehicles and shoot unless we have the clear advantage and 2, we almost always choose to shoot over assaulting. Anyway enough rambling, on to my list.
Spoiler:
HQ
Celestine - 115
Troops
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Sister of Battle x 10 - 206
Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Combi Melta
Rhino
Dozer Blade, Search Light
Fast
Seraphim x 9 - 180
Dual Hand Flamers x 2
Dominion Squad x 4 - 201
Flamer x 4, Combi Flamer
Rhino
Search Light
Dominion Squad x 4 - 201
Flamer x 4, Combi Flamer
Rhino
Search Light
Heavy
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Exorcist - 136
Search Light
Fortification
Aegis - 70 (For exorcists to gain a 4+ and to reroll outflank/deepstrike)
Comm Relay
1999
The comm relay will really help in times that you want to either deep strike or outflank the seraphim, or the dominion squads, such as when facing IG armies. The combined punch of the 1 seraphim 2 dominion squads offers the same unit in triplicate, making sure that at least one of the units survives, to completely devastate a few units being able to both shred elites and infantry. Celestine is the best HQ in the game especially for her points, she makes her seraphim fearless and her seraphim give her reroll to wound on her flamer and give her hit and run, which she passes on int 7, which is anything but a 1, 9 seraphim and celestine is the dark horse unit of the game, and probably the most powerful unit for killing troops and elites consistently and without fail.
Sisters of Battle are stronger than ever with the introduction to 6th, the only thing we lack is options in units and the fact that the models are too expensive and the codex is not easily accessible.
Exorcists never, and I repeat, never want to have Search Lights. Your Exorcists should be shooting at targets already lit up by your Rhinos/Immos, not shooting at and lighting up a unit themselves. This would open them up to be shot back at by the entire enemy army.
Although I understand the idea of countering the current meta, I still don't think that Heavy Flamers are worth that cost. Just by dropping them down to be Flamers, that's 60 points right there that could go towards a second HQ or a 10th Seraphim. I'd also reconsider the Dozer Blades on the BSS Rhinos, or if you are going to take them, give them to the Doms first, they'll probably need them more. Just be aware that at 2k points you will be seeing some double FOC lists while you are only making use of the one. I know it can be hard for Sisters to make good use of it. Good luck!
So I got a bastion recently to try the Rets in a Castle tactic. My questionrelates to the squad size of the Rets now ths they're better protected (situationally, atleast). I was runnin 10 strong squads for the extrs wounds, moving normal bolters around when taking casulties (since shooting restrictions are model based rather than unit based), to maximise the bolters. I've that found that unlesssomeone really wants the Rets dead they tend to survive the game.
Anyway in the bastion we want 4 armed H bolters and atleast 2 more to man bolters on the bastion. I'm think a squad size of 7 or 8 would suffice in the bastion saving me two models worth of points to put to other things.
I'n gonna start giving them a sim(whatecer it is) for rerolls on AoF, any other wargear/size consideration I need to know?
The dreaded SIX Exorcist list, I know. Well, I have six Exorcists, and I'll be damned if I don't use them. 12 vehicles, 6 Rhinos, 6 Exorcists. And I'm using a Canoness, blasphemy I know! But, this is the one role she really shines in, as a second cheap HQ to unlock double FOC! I basically shove Doms and BSS in their faces while six Exorcists focus on one target at a time until it is neutralized or other targets of opportunity as appropriate. Combi-Meltas on the BSS Superiors in case the Doms fail, and the Exorcists fail, or there's close enough AV 14 that needs some Melta-ing. Girls stay in Rhinos and Flame out the top of all the disgorged goodies. Depending on what the Doms are doing, the Canoness may go with one of them or just do her own thing, or just trying not to get killed. St. Celestine does what she does best, sans Seraphim unfortunately. People hate three Exorcists. People will really hate six of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
evildrcheese wrote: So I got a bastion recently to try the Rets in a Castle tactic. My questionrelates to the squad size of the Rets now ths they're better protected (situationally, atleast). I was runnin 10 strong squads for the extrs wounds, moving normal bolters around when taking casulties (since shooting restrictions are model based rather than unit based), to maximise the bolters. I've that found that unlesssomeone really wants the Rets dead they tend to survive the game.
Anyway in the bastion we want 4 armed H bolters and atleast 2 more to man bolters on the bastion. I'm think a squad size of 7 or 8 would suffice in the bastion saving me two models worth of points to put to other things.
I'n gonna start giving them a sim(whatecer it is) for rerolls on AoF, any other wargear/size consideration I need to know?
D
You could get away with just 6, the 4 Heavy Bolters, the Superior, and the Simulacrum. The Superior and the Simulacrum bearer could then be the ones to man the two additional Heavy Bolters. Depending on what you are running for HQ's, Kyrinov would make them Fearless, and have his 6" Fearless bubble extend from the Bastion, as well as the fact he comes with a "free" Simulacrum so if he's with the squad, they'd have it.
The dreaded SIX Exorcist list, I know. Well, I have six Exorcists, and I'll be damned if I don't use them. 12 vehicles, 6 Rhinos, 6 Exorcists. And I'm using a Canoness, blasphemy I know! But, this is the one role she really shines in, as a second cheap HQ to unlock double FOC! I basically shove Doms and BSS in their faces while six Exorcists focus on one target at a time until it is neutralized or other targets of opportunity as appropriate. Combi-Meltas on the BSS Superiors in case the Doms fail, and the Exorcists fail, or there's close enough AV 14 that needs some Melta-ing. Girls stay in Rhinos and Flame out the top of all the disgorged goodies. Depending on what the Doms are doing, the Canoness may go with one of them or just do her own thing, or just trying not to get killed. St. Celestine does what she does best, sans Seraphim unfortunately. People hate three Exorcists. People will really hate six of them.
Haha. That sounds super fun. If i had 6 exorcists I'd totally try that list out.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote: I would consider the following: If you drop the Drozer Blades from the Doms' Immos and the PW & Melta Bombs from the Seraphim Superior, you have enough points for either another Rhino for the first BSS or some ablative wounds for the Ret squad. Just something to consider. Otherwise looks great to me. Good luck with it.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote: I would consider the following: If you drop the Drozer Blades from the Doms' Immos and the PW & Melta Bombs from the Seraphim Superior, you have enough points for either another Rhino for the first BSS or some ablative wounds for the Ret squad. Just something to consider. Otherwise looks great to me. Good luck with it.
Another tweak to consider - thanks!
And six Exorcists!
Did try that in a game yet?
No problem! And no, I haven't played that in a game...yet.
CoteazRox wrote:Ok, I managed to get another Dom in and keeping two Immos, but it meant no Bastion. And sadly, no Simulacrum. 12 points unused, maybe for a Ret Sister or a Combi weapon and two searchlights for the Immos. Yes, it is a lot of shoots for Exorcists, averaging 10-11 in theory but prob around 5 in a game!
[/spoiler]Exorcists never, and I repeat, never want to have Search Lights. Your Exorcists should be shooting at targets already lit up by your Rhinos/Immos, not shooting at and lighting up a unit themselves. This would open them up to be shot back at by the entire enemy army.
Although I understand the idea of countering the current meta, I still don't think that Heavy Flamers are worth that cost. Just by dropping them down to be Flamers, that's 60 points right there that could go towards a second HQ or a 10th Seraphim. I'd also reconsider the Dozer Blades on the BSS Rhinos, or if you are going to take them, give them to the Doms first, they'll probably need them more. Just be aware that at 2k points you will be seeing some double FOC lists while you are only making use of the one. I know it can be hard for Sisters to make good use of it. Good luck!
The exorcists have search lights because I had 3 points to spend and dropping heavy flamers for normal flamers is not worth picking up another HQ because it has no where to fit, and the 10th seraphim is not worth losing 1 point of str in all my Sisters's effective shooting. Dozer blades in an all mech list are pretty crucial, especially that now, when you immobilize yourself from difficult terrain, you also take a hull point worth of damage. Also the points are extra, adding up the dozer blades, extra points from heavy flamer to flamer and dropping search lights would not give enough for another squad.
Lost the first game because I could not blow up a land raider. This was the first time i've ever had that happen. I must have rolled a 3 on 2d6 about 5 times with melta weapons. When the dice decided to turn to chaos, Watch out!
The second game was against a mostly foot eldar. He had a wraithknight character that was his general and the highlight of the game was when Celestine tanked like 20 S6+ shots, got charged by the wraithknight and killed it before she could get stomped. It was the difference in the game and gave me the win in a VERY close game.
The third game was against tau and I slaughtered him. Good rolling on my part and bad (for the most part) on his. My highlight was that after he killed off the doms I had a rhino on his side of the field that served no purpose, so I tank shocked him and amazingly enough routed a unit of fire warriors off the field. Good stuff.
Also, played a 1500 game against Krieg guard tonight and did very well. I haven't played my Sisters in a few months, felt comfortable to play still and still my favorite army.
Nobody_Holme wrote: Fire warriors are one of the best tank shock targets in the game right now, methinks.
Would it be worth rushing even empty vehicles up against tau to try and tank shock "no space to move model" kill things?
Depends on the mission. If kill points are involved then its far better to hide the rhinos and kill the fire warriors other ways. If they serve no further purpose, then there is no harm in tank shocking the fire warriors into clusters for your templates or using them to ram vehicles. One side effect is that if they're close enough to lightly armored infantry they tend to take some out when they blow up.
Also, played a 1500 game against Krieg guard tonight and did very well. I haven't played my Sisters in a few months, felt comfortable to play still and still my favorite army.
I would buy it, even if it is the same book, just to encourage them.
Malkyr wrote: Possibly heretical thought here, but has anyone thought about using their Sister's figs for counts as Marines in the new dex?
I'm thinking using the Salamanders chapter tactic for the flamer rerolls obviously.
I understand this idea is vile heresy and Exterminatus is already in progress, but what does depress me after my first reading of the 6th edition Codex: Space Marines is the question, what can Sisters do that Marines can't do better? Now Tac Marines only cost two points more than a
Battle Sister, have the same armor & weapons, Chapter Tactics that give SRs at least as good as White Dwarf codex Faith (Witchhunters-style Faith, where any Sisters unit could do any of five things, would be a different story), and they have +1 WS, S, T, and I.
I understand there's such a thing as codex creep and Sisters chronically get left behind, but I really want to ask all the expert players in this thread, what can Sisters do better than 6th edition Marines, and how do we use that to our advantage when the Ecclesiarchy calls on us to bring those prideful, non-Emperor worshipping jarheads back into line?
I understand this idea is vile heresy and Exterminatus is already in progress, but what does depress me after my first reading of the 6th edition Codex: Space Marines is the question, what can Sisters do that Marines can't do better? Now Tac Marines only cost two points more than a
Battle Sister, have the same armor & weapons, Chapter Tactics that give SRs at least as good as White Dwarf codex Faith (Witchhunters-style Faith, where any Sisters unit could do any of five things, would be a different story), and they have +1 WS, S, T, and I.
I understand there's such a thing as codex creep and Sisters chronically get left behind, but I really want to ask all the expert players in this thread, what can Sisters do better than 6th edition Marines, and how do we use that to our advantage when the Ecclesiarchy calls on us to bring those prideful, non-Emperor worshipping jarheads back into line?
AP1 Spam. No army does it better than us. Considering how many PA, TDA and MC models are on the table, that's good.
Also, Celestine. No one has a better warlord.
Our troops may not be as cheap, they may not be as cool, but we have clever tricks.
That's the thing I always say when describing Sisters to others, especially those who never fought them before and are a bit gobsmacked at how much pain I can put out in an unassuming package.
Sisters do not do flashy or spectacular things. But they reliably do it. They are not a sports car, but the ol' reliable.
Sisters did get a downgrade with the SM codex being cheaper per figure. As others have pointed out, there are still unique things that SM's simply cannot do.
Big 2:
Celestine
Exorcists
The rest:
Doms -- Gotta be salamanders to be as good
Seraphim -- Noone beats for twin linked duel flamer
Rets -- Rending heavy bolters. Yea, SM chapters haven't figured out that one yet. Suckers!
DCA/Crusader -- Grey Knights may have these, but with the creepy old man in the unit, ours is WAY better.
I'll give you that SM's have a lot of cool stuff in that codex, but sisters aren't out for the count quite yet.
I'm going to be asking a lot of questions in the future, most of them answered by this thread and just seeking confirmation. I just want to make sure I'm well informed before I drop coin on these ladies.
Soooo.... Seraphim squads, 10 strong, 2 hand flamers, 1 superior. Still a good choice? And what do you give as far as other equipment to the superior and what not?
Celestine...solo or in a unit. What type of unit would you run her in?
Celestine with Seraphim for added protection, solo if you must (say low points game).
Seraphim in 10 are good, but expensive. Superior benefits from melta-bombs or an Eviscerator. I don't usually arm her for CC, but to take out tanks more easily.
pretre wrote: I have been running Celestine solo recently. She's good with Seraphim, but sometimes you can just run her alone and she's still good.
The big boon from runningvwith the Seraphim is that they give her Hit & Run so she can't get tarpitted. Without hit and run you either have to wait for her to chew through whatever your fighting or hope she goes down fast and then reappears ASAP.
Lost the first game because I could not blow up a land raider. This was the first time i've ever had that happen. I must have rolled a 3 on 2d6 about 5 times with melta weapons. When the dice decided to turn to chaos, Watch out!
The second game was against a mostly foot eldar. He had a wraithknight character that was his general and the highlight of the game was when Celestine tanked like 20 S6+ shots, got charged by the wraithknight and killed it before she could get stomped. It was the difference in the game and gave me the win in a VERY close game.
The third game was against tau and I slaughtered him. Good rolling on my part and bad (for the most part) on his. My highlight was that after he killed off the doms I had a rhino on his side of the field that served no purpose, so I tank shocked him and amazingly enough routed a unit of fire warriors off the field. Good stuff.
WAR!
That was a great match! The Landraider should have died many times.... If it had, you would have won... My son the Tau player wanted to bury the dice after that game... LOL
Ah, yes, even in the new Codex, good ol' Guilliman still doesn't let his Tac squads take a pair of meltas like our Battle Sisters, and the Marines have no equivalent to Dominions (even Sternguard vets max out at two special weapons), let alone the Exorcist.
But they get heavy flamers way cheaper than we do! Fire's our thing!
Yes, Celestine is awesome. But -- I know this sounds weird -- I have a strange aversion to special characters.....
SisterSydney wrote: But -- I know this sounds weird -- I have a strange aversion to special characters.....
You're far from the only one. It's not uncommon for a player to prefer a generic over a SC. I am one such person.
In regards to the Sisters specifically, the best way to run your Canoness (I assume it'd be a Canoness anyway) is to put her with some HB Rets. Along with a Simulacrum, this makes it highly likely that they'll pass their faith check and get rending. Also gives them a powerful protector, and makes whatever combi weapon you may have given her rending too.
Though as helpful as our generic Canoness is in this role, the sad truth is that she's still much outclassed by special characters. So if you want to be as competetive as you can, then specials are probably the way to go. But if you're set on taking a generic, then go for it.
Edit: on a related note, I've been tempted recently to give my Canoness an Eviscerator and a Rosarius alongside her combi weapon. I know I really shouldn't but damn it, I want a more badass Canoness. Guess I could periodically do that loadout just for fun.
That was a great match! The Landraider should have died many times.... If it had, you would have won... My son the Tau player wanted to bury the dice after that game... LOL
After that game he may want to.... except for his commanders dice from his armor/feel no pain rolls. That thing tanked 3 turns of 3 exorcists blasting away at him before dropping!
In regards to the Sisters specifically, the best way to run your Canoness (I assume it'd be a Canoness anyway) is to put her with some HB Rets. Along with a Simulacrum, this makes it highly likely that they'll pass their faith check and get rending. Also gives them a powerful protector, and makes whatever combi weapon you may have given her rending too.
I still like the idea of priests being around the units over a Canoness. Seems like pilgrims, missionaries and priests should be plentiful around a sisters convent given all of the relics laying around. Its truly a shame that confessors and priests are so awful right now.
war wrote: I still like the idea of priests being around the units over a Canoness. Seems like pilgrims, missionaries and priests should be plentiful around a sisters convent given all of the relics laying around. Its truly a shame that confessors and priests are so awful right now.
It would also help if the clergy had mobs of Frateris Militia rabble to whip into a hate-crazed suicidal frenzy of killingness.
war wrote: I still like the idea of priests being around the units over a Canoness. Seems like pilgrims, missionaries and priests should be plentiful around a sisters convent given all of the relics laying around. Its truly a shame that confessors and priests are so awful right now.
It would also help if the clergy had mobs of Frateris Militia rabble to whip into a hate-crazed suicidal frenzy of killingness.
Or Redemptionists! I miss my mobs of redemptionists. I still have probably 60 or so that I use for allied guard.
I remember there were "chapter approved" rules floating around for Zealots, Redemptionists, whatever -- but does GW still approve those? If so, where do you FIND them?
SisterSydney wrote: I remember there were "chapter approved" rules floating around for Zealots, Redemptionists, whatever -- but does GW still approve those? If so, where do you FIND them?
Chances are they are not really approved anymore since they reference C:WH. You can find them on the web with a bit of scouring. GW offered to mail me a photocopy years ago.
The Zealot rules were nowhere near as cool as the Redemptionist rules in Codex: Chapter Approved though.
edit: Come to think of it, I have the White Dwarf (physical copy) in my Swap Shop thread if you wanted it.
So been playing around and (presuming my local meta goes with my line of thinking on SoB-BT allies) I've kinda got a fun idea for a 1000 point Black Templar ally for my Sisters.
My logic is that my current list is a mobile, mechanized force that mainly lacks in the straightforward punch department. What I really need is something to slam forward and get stuck in while my Sisters set up firing lanes, hunt tanks or combine fire on another target. In short, I need a big, distracting beatstick. So here's my thinking:
Black Templar ally:
HQ Emperor's Champion
Troops
10 Initiates w/ CCW in Land Raider Crusader
Elites
5 Vanguard vets with Storm Shields and a mix of power swords and axes
Heavy
Land Raider
1000 points even, and it gives me two big AV14 boxes of pain full of sword-wielding maniacs.
You are aware that codex:black templars is obsoleted by codex: space marines (6th ed) right? That list looks to me like the old book. I might be wrong though, I don't own either.
(Also, those don't really add anything that synergises with sisters other than 3+ saves...)
Nobody_Holme wrote: You are aware that codex:black templars is obsoleted by codex: space marines (6th ed) right? That list looks to me like the old book. I might be wrong though, I don't own either.
(Also, those don't really add anything that synergises with sisters other than 3+ saves...)
It is the new book. I have it here.
And it does synergize in giving more of a forward assault element, as well as heavy armor. While I primarily run a list that is very mobile (through rhinos) and effective at short to mid-range shooting (bolters and melta), what it lacks is an assault, or more specifically, counter assault unit. The Templar add a mobile assault threat that can be used to pry enemies out of cover or deal with an opponent's melee elements while providing some hefty armor at a relatively low points cost.
I'd suggest repentia walking up behind the sisters if you want to deter assaults.
Sisters may not be outstanding in assaults, but they usually stick out at least one round, and if you can't overwatch the repentia then oh dear me that's 10 girls swinging eviscerators. Not much out there that can handle that damage, and you didn't pay 1K points to have them there, so you can bring out sisters AV13 spam instead of a pair of raiders.
Personal taste, or me being dumb? (And I don't want to criticise your BT allies, I just really don't see what it gives you that the sisters can't do for you, unlike, say, podding iron hands giving the sisters a distraction, or massed cover-providing guardsmen charging forwards, for example)
war wrote: Sisters did get a downgrade with the SM codex being cheaper per figure. As others have pointed out, there are still unique things that SM's simply cannot do.
Big 2:
Celestine
Exorcists
The rest:
Doms -- Gotta be salamanders to be as good
Seraphim -- Noone beats for twin linked duel flamer
Rets -- Rending heavy bolters. Yea, SM chapters haven't figured out that one yet. Suckers!
DCA/Crusader -- Grey Knights may have these, but with the creepy old man in the unit, ours is WAY better.
I'll give you that SM's have a lot of cool stuff in that codex, but sisters aren't out for the count quite yet.
Well, doms can be done with RG, and flame-goodness with salamandars, but honesty in my two games against SoB so far, I underestimated Exo's potential and didnt focus it down first, and got decimated for it.
Nobody_Holme wrote: I'd suggest repentia walking up behind the sisters if you want to deter assaults.
Sisters may not be outstanding in assaults, but they usually stick out at least one round, and if you can't overwatch the repentia then oh dear me that's 10 girls swinging eviscerators. Not much out there that can handle that damage, and you didn't pay 1K points to have them there, so you can bring out sisters AV13 spam instead of a pair of raiders.
Personal taste, or me being dumb? (And I don't want to criticise your BT allies, I just really don't see what it gives you that the sisters can't do for you, unlike, say, podding iron hands giving the sisters a distraction, or massed cover-providing guardsmen charging forwards, for example)
Well, this is big-picture thinking, hardly any solid tactical planning going on to fill immediate needs. I mean, I've got a 4k game with pure Sisters this weekend (fun times!) and I've got the models, so it isn't like I -need- these BT allies to hit some competitive level. They are mostly a means to expand my army without the expense of more Sisters (as my collection is at about the level I'm happy with), and it gives me some fresh wrinkles to play with and new options for larger games. And it is an expansion that keeps with fluff.
That said, as far as Sisters in assaults, I do have two squads of Repentia, but they rarely see a lot of action given their slowness and the fact that they have the big glowing 'shoot and hit us' sign on them. I will be breaking them out for my big game this weekend though, mostly to lay in wait and tangle with whatever threatens my lines, so my opinion may very well be blown away in mere days. While my Sisters are great at sticking out in assaults, the low WS and T means that they lose battles of attrition in a hurry, break and their low I means relatively easy sweeps. I don't like risking my scoring units for 'tie them up for the Repentia' when I could ally in something that can reliably wade into melee and wreck some faces with minimal support.
They would be ok at that if they were a bit more survivable. As it stands pretty much anything can murder them in the shooting phase or assault phase (due to init)
Automatically Appended Next Post: most expensive infantry in the 'codex' and also the easiest to kill
I could see Repentia having use on a board that had a lot of LOS blocking terrain as something as an ambush force. But since I play a very mobile game, static elements that only hope for something to come by are a little against my plans.
As far as I've found, Repentia are good to be used either as a single, oft small-to-mid sized squad for use as a counter assault squad inside your own lines, OR, 3 mid-to-max sized squads to charge the enemy lines with other immediate threats.
And tomorrow, I am rolling into a 4000 point game, good times. I'll either be up against Blood Angels or Eldar, but that is as far as I know. Not exactly like I can really manage my list, as 4000 points is pretty much the highest limit of what I can take, so what I am taking is:
I am fairly familiar with my opponent's style of play, and he is certainly no slouch, but he tends to prefer assault or short range elements. For his Blood Angels, he really loves his Death Company, and his Eldar he loves the Wraithguard (though oddly, he rarely fields Wraithknights).
My overall strategy is to use the Batteries, Rets, Exorcists and 20-girl BSS squads to make sure that anything approaching without a vehicle to protect them is in for some serious damage. The Seraphim and Dominions will stick to their role of outflanking and deep striking (I ardently subscribe to deep striking Seraphim ) to either trap his units in a crossfire, or to pick off his vulnerable backfield elements. This will be the Repentia's first game, and depending on what my opponent brings, I think their job will be to protect the vehicles and infantry. Not so much in terms of bubble wrap, as Jacobus and Kyrinov can easily anchor the two 20-girl squads, but to jump in right away to clean up whatever he hits me with.
Got a face punching t'other night. Against the double rdeemer list I always seem to face. Made some baaaaad tacticals decisions throughout the game. Mainly leaving my rhinos only to see my meltas miss completely, saying that it would've been gravy if it'd blown up....also put another melta far too close to a tank that did go boom and killed my melta and two other troops from the unit in the explosion.
So I was mistaken about my opponent. He did not bring Blood Angels or Eldar. Instead, he brought the new Marine codex and requested that we mix in some of the pre-Heresy Luna Wolves rules and characters. I looked over them and allowed them to take one of their army-wide rules as a Chapter Tactic, and for him to use a few of the characters (pre-Heresy Abbadon and Loken, though I did not allow Horus ;p ). But it was still a 4000 point game, and this is what I was roughly against:
"Horus" (a kitted out Chapter Master on a bike)
Abbadon
Loken
3-4 Tac squads with a smattering of lascannons and plasma guns. With a couple of Rhino transports.
2 giant units of assault Terminators, mixed TH/SS and Claws
1 unit of pre-Heresy 4++ Terminators
Vanguard Vets
2 Stormravens (one with "Horus", a chaplain and Vanguards, the other empty)
10 Sternguard in a drop pod, combat-squadding on impact.
I believe that was it, though I may have missed some details. Apologies for that.
Anyhoo, the mission was Big Guns (4 objectives), Dawn of War deployment. Marines won deployment and I failed to seize.
Warlord traits:
"Horus" - -1 to my reserve rolls (critical as I had 7 units in reserve)
Celestine - Stealth (ruins) and Move through Cover for the army
Turn 1 had the Marines leading out strongly. The Sternguard pods slammed home and by combat-squadding out of the pod, they knocked out two of my Exorcists and even more irritatingly, the pod landed right next to one of my vengeance batteries. It should be noted that that battery fired into the pod for the entire length of the game before being able to kill it in the bottom of turn 5. >.<
I responded with as much force. I had a nice advantage turn 1 as I had way less to focus on, and plenty of guns to deal with problems. My two 20-man squads and an Exorcist combined fire to eliminate both Sternguard squads before they could do any more damage to my gunline. In addition, Exorcists also managed to pop both of his Rhinos, pinning one of the squads inside. The other squad did not need to worry about pinning, as their aggressive charge left them in the tender hands of my Repentia, who made blissfully short work of 5 Marines.
Turn 2 had the bulk of his reserves showing up, everything except the empty Stormraven arrived on the scene. Abbadon and his 4++ terminators landed on a BSS squad and I got to place them, keeping them out of most of the game. My opponent continued his press into my firebase, but could only muster some lackluster shooting. He managed to hurt one of my Exorcists bad and take out a 3rd, but otherwise I suffered no major damage.
I got 2 non-Celestine Seraphim squads and a Dominion squad from my reserves. The Doms showed up where I wanted them, but both Seraphim squads scattered, including one onto one of his Tac squads...and I rolled a 1! >.< So a lost Seraphim squad was the price to pay for risky deep strikes. But I did some significant damage in this turn, with some of the highlights being:
Combined BSS/Exorcist fire and a Repentia charged polished off one 10-man Terminator squad.
BSS fire reducing the other Terminator squad to 7.
A single Exorcist missile hitting the zooming Stormraven...and exploding it. In a heartbeat, his Vanguards were completely wiped out! Ace! That Exorcist gets a cookie after the battle for sure. This also had the benefit of stranding his "Horus" CM right in the middle of my big squads. Sure I had little to hurt him, but my opponent was very tunnel-visioned on getting Horus into melee.
Turn 3 rolls around and my opponent gets his other Stormraven andfinally gets to launch some counterattacks of his own. "Horus" barrels into Kyrinov's BSS squad and the other Terminators attempt a charge into my Jacobus' BSS squad, but fall short after overwatch (from 17 Sisters, a heavy flamer and a flamer) blows away their front 2. "Horus" finds little danger in Kyirnov's BSS squad, but a whole lot of Fearless bodies to mow through, he will take 4-5 Sisters a turn, but he will not leave this combat for the rest of the game. On the left flank, focused Tac marine assaults and Loken finish off the one Dominion squad and break (but do not sweep) a BSS squad, who use a faith act to rally in the next turn.
My reserves are a little better, with the remaining 2 Dominion squads arriving on the same side as his firebase to backup my push. No Celestine or Avenger show up, though. However, with 3 melta Dominon squads piling up his flank, I have lots of openings to do damage. Loken is smoked with a multimelta and I continue to whittle away at Terminator squads and his Marines, but no major damage was done.
Turn 4 has my opponent mostly struggling to deal with all the fires I have set in his field. Horus is bogged hopelessly in an extended melee and he has nothing nearby to back him up. Abbadon is mostly floundering back and forth, unable to focus on either Seraphim or the Doms. The only major offensive he launches is the Termintors making it into Jacobus' BSS squad. However, my girls shine in a big way, dragging down 3 out of the 5 Terminators and winning the combat! Never underestimate Sister punches in volume!
Celestine and my Avenger show up at last, but interestingly, they have very little to do but attack one of his Tac squads which are nowhere near an objective. The last surviving Repentia (they drew considerable attention after manhandling those Terminators) wade into the melee with the BSS and Terminators, but their eviscerators are unneeded as the BSS punches down the last two Terminators. More gold stars! On the flank, the Dominion squads finish off the Tac squads holding an objective, leaving it clear for BSS to claim the objective.
Turn 5 for both of us was relatively uneventful. Horus continued to slap down BSS and Abbadon lumbered around confused while I jabbed at him with shooting. We rolled to see if the game ended, and a 1 was rolled.
Victory points:
Sisters of battle - 3 objectives (all worth 3), Linebreaker
Space Marines - 0 objectives, First Blood, Linebreaker, 3 Heavy Support kills
I ran the girls in a 1250 tourney today, with a small GK allied detachment. List was:
HQ Celestine
Troops
BSS w/Rhino, MM, Flamer
BSS w/Rhino, MM, Flamer
Fast
Doms in Immolater w/HF, 2x Meltaguns (5 girls)
Heavy
2x Exorcists
Allies
HQ Coteaz
Troop
Henchmen
Jokaeros x 3, HB Servitor x 2, Crusader x2, Bolter Acolyte x 1
ADL w/ Quad Gun
Game 1: Played against farsight w/ Three riptides (one was the character). Killed two of three riptides, farsight, most of his entourage, and would have won, except we went to turn six and the girls ran off an objective and Celestine went down after three turns against a Riptide in CC. Lost by objectives.
Game 2: Played a green tide Ork list w/ 3 Dakkajets, warboss and three mobs 30 boys. Hammer and anvil worked out well for me, I shot the boys to bits, Celestine chopped up many more, and the Doms hit them from behind to pretty much table him by turn five... All that was left was his warboss hiding in cover and two dakkajets.
Game 3: Wave serpent spam...Dawn of war. I took out two of them, but their ignore cover and rending shots just did so much damage, and his turning pens into glances just neutered my HS shooting. Did not end well for the army.
Game 4: BA libby/dread/drop pod fun. My buddy ran Mephiston, two libby dreads and a furiouso all in pods, plus two assault squads with another librarian in drop pods and a scout squad hiding in cover. I did some damage with Coteaz against the drop pods on turn one, and Celetine went toe to toe with Mephiston for three turns until she died (he only had one wound left). He ran fear of the darkness on all his librarians and ran my henchmen and one BSS off the board, and the relic was his. Fun game and I fully supported the shenanigans he brought as a counter to the Tau Riptide spam with their less than awesome leadership.
All in all a good tourney for the girls, I almost beat riptide/farsight at 1250 (one roll made the game), crushed the green tide, and did some damage against wave serpent spam. The BA fear of the darkness spam was nasty, and I got unlucky on some of my armor pens against his dreads with my space monkeys.
QFT. I need to resist the temptation to jump out. The only reason I did it in this case was because it got me within 6" of the LR which I was desperate to pop and typically my meltas whiffed. Really need to get the rest of the mmodels I need for my Doms and get them out.
Nice reports above by the way. The BA fear list is intereting (my second army is BA).
Thanks gents, and the Fear list was pretty cool.. he was actually borrowing two of my pods and a libby dread. The whole point was to fear units multiple times and run squads (namely riptides) off the board for fun. Sadly, the Tau list made like 12 deny the witch rolls and neutered him.
Death cult assassins with maul/axe combo are great answers for almost anything that needs killed in assault. Hit them with enough axes and they go down like a virus bomb on a hive world with a confirmed heretic.
pretre wrote: In an army that kills 2 plus saves like crazy, you need repentia?
No, not need Repentia so much as they seem like they would be a good counter to Grav-Weapon Centurions (the abundance of AP 1 shooting that SoB can bring notwithstanding).
My point was more along the lines of the Grav Centurions have a hard time wounding the Repentia (compared to other SoB choices) while the Repentia tear through the Centurions like used tissue paper.
Now that Repentia are sane enough to use tactics (with the change to Rage in 6th ed), I really want them to be able to use assault transports too.... Sigh.
Yeah, I know some of you guys love repentia but those points are ao much better spent elsewhere.
Repentia fit the SoB profile well - very aggressive units that want to push forward fast to overwhelm the enemy with damage before their lower resilience and shorter range begins to make them drop away. They just push all elements to the extreme - not at all resilient, no range, massive damage. If they had an assault vehicle they'd have a place in any list. As is they are a good countercharge unit, or the basis of a really fun assault list that might do amazing or might fall very flat... assault has taken a hit in 6th no doubt, but I always have *fun* playing my assault SoB regardless.
Hollowman wrote: Repentia fit the SoB profile well - very aggressive units that want to push forward fast to overwhelm the enemy with damage before their lower resilience and shorter range begins to make them drop away. They just push all elements to the extreme - not at all resilient, no range, massive damage. If they had an assault vehicle they'd have a place in any list. As is they are a good countercharge unit, or the basis of a really fun assault list that might do amazing or might fall very flat... assault has taken a hit in 6th no doubt, but I always have *fun* playing my assault SoB regardless.
If they had an assault vehicle, it'd be a different story. Although I think they would still be outshined by conclave. If we're looking for fun units, sure. Just not effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks to all the battle reports, btw, all. Those have been great.
If they had an assault vehicle, it'd be a different story. Although I think they would still be outshined by conclave. If we're looking for fun units, sure. Just not effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks to all the battle reports, btw, all. Those have been great.
The ability to take axes makes conclaves almost as good, but I've never found them to work nearly as well as Repentia at forward pressure. They can't take on vehicles or MC very well, -1 strength even with axes, -1 attack on the charge, but mostly they are just too slow for a combat unit. They suffer the same lack of assault transports and assault nerfs, lack fleet and fearless, and require a character tax. I only bother to use conclaves for counter attack these days, I can still play very aggressive with my Repentia. What makes Repentia an uncertain buy is that you really take them FOR their assault, and assault is all around weaker. Conclaves are mostly taken to guard characters who buff your army, and so they have a role even outside an assault force.
You crazy? Mix axes swords and maces and conclaves far outstrip repentia except against av. Reroll and +1 attack with fnp and good invuls is awesome. Of course the transport thing sucks.
I've had wayyyy more luck with conclaves than repentia. With the mace/axe combo they do wonderfully against anything except AV13+. One thing they do significantly better than repentia is against hord types. Guard, orks, eldar, whatever they will cut through with their huge init values and power maces. Generally there aren't many attacks back after their round of combat.
Rhinos work all right with them. Sure, an assault vehicle would be better but at least they have a vehicle.
pretre wrote: You crazy? Mix axes swords and maces and conclaves far outstrip repentia except against av. Reroll and +1 attack with fnp and good invuls is awesome....
So Death Cult Assassin-heavy Conclaves are your infantry-killers all the way up through 2+ TEQ armour, while Repentia are basically tank-killers?
Sad no one in the army has Monster Hunters, then we could complete the set...
pretre wrote: Don't centurions also have bolters? Wouldn't they just fire those instead?
They can fire the Hurricane Bolters AND the Grav-Cannons actually.
Frankly though that keeps Grav Weapons from being aimed at Celestine or your Exorcists for a turn or two, and the Centurions can't overwatch (Slow and Purposeful).
Add in the fact that Repentia are faster across the board (thanks to being Fleet) and can more reliably charge than the Battle Conclave and they're not a bad choice. They're still squishy and all but I've used Repentia to great success personally (always fun to watch them butcher an entire Tactical squad in a turn, or roll so many penetrating hits on something (like a Landraider) that people just give up and pull the model before you finish rolling pen attempts... ).
Really for the 2 point difference per model between them and the Conclave it comes out to being a real toss-up for CC-oriented units in my book.
But that's just my spin on it.
Out of curiousity have people been trying out the Preda-Repressors? How have they been working out for you guys?
pretre wrote: You crazy? Mix axes swords and maces and conclaves far outstrip repentia except against av. Reroll and +1 attack with fnp and good invuls is awesome. Of course the transport thing sucks.
That's adding in Uriah, whom I have no room for to begin with, and makes a conclave a LOT more expensive than a unit of Repentia just for the benefit of taking on infantry a bit better and losing any utility against vehicles. That's the character tax I mentioned earlier - you can't get a conclave nearly as cheap as a unit of Repentia, but it does essentially the same job. It's main benefit is having the ability to buy multiple 3++ saves, as opposed to Repentia and their one 3+ to tank a few shots. They will both kill most anything they hit - Repentia are faster and conclaves are more durable, assuming you throw some Crusaders in. That's a wash in my book, but having to buy a Confessor who costs as much as a second unit of Repentia puts the Conclave on a back foot as far as I am concerned.
I haven't even tried Repentia inn 6th ed. They just seem far too fragile to ever be able to effectivly deluver their payload. I'll probably get out to trying them at somepoint, but not unil I've put my bastion together and am used to running that.
evildrcheese wrote: I haven't even tried Repentia inn 6th ed. They just seem far too fragile to ever be able to effectivly deluver their payload. I'll probably get out to trying them at somepoint, but not unil I've put my bastion together and am used to running that.
D
In general in 6th, they work as a counter assault unit, in which case, they're usually ignored because they're no immediate threat, sitting out-of-the-way-ish in your deployment zone.
Or, as a kind of one-shot cannon, where you pick a target, run them at it andwatch it die.
2-3 Repentia is all it takes to utterly decimate most things, especially vehicles, which only need 1-2 to make it.
If you're lucky and there's 4+ left, you can always play will-it-blend with a second target.
(though even 1 is still a threat, especially to vehicles or targets that can't overwatch, as they have to waste a whole units shooting on 1 model, are risk something being wrecked.)
evildrcheese wrote: I haven't even tried Repentia inn 6th ed. They just seem far too fragile to ever be able to effectivly deluver their payload. I'll probably get out to trying them at somepoint, but not unil I've put my bastion together and am used to running that.
D
In general in 6th, they work as a counter assault unit, in which case, they're usually ignored because they're no immediate threat, sitting out-of-the-way-ish in your deployment zone.
Or, as a kind of one-shot cannon, where you pick a target, run them at it andwatch it die.
2-3 Repentia is all it takes to utterly decimate most things, especially vehicles, which only need 1-2 to make it.
If you're lucky and there's 4+ left, you can always play will-it-blend with a second target.
(though even 1 is still a threat, especially to vehicles or targets that can't overwatch, as they have to waste a whole units shooting on 1 model, are risk something being wrecked.)
They're also pretty good at dealing with bike units as Sisters don't have a large number of tools for killing bikes, especially now that everyone seems to be getting bonuses to their Jink saves anymore.
ClockworkZion wrote: Out of curiousity have people been trying out the Preda-Repressors? How have they been working out for you guys?
I got best general at a 4 rd tournament locally with a high AV spam list (bunch of repressors and exos, some chimera, etc). It was nasty. Nothing more demoralizing than not being able to open your opponent's transports to get the contents. AV13 with 6++ is hilarious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The problem with repentia is T3 with FNP. Most of their FNP is ignored and they have a crap save. Most opponents are going to fire one squad at them and make them disappear.
I just don't see them getting to where they need to get. Even if they do, they strike last and probably get wiped before initiative so only get 1 attack a piece (if faith works).
Survivability is a big deal for Conclave. and I don't consider Jacobus a tax since I often take him anyways.
Had a much more satisfactory game last night - 1500pts versus Blood Angels
Had St. C and Seraphim squad, 2 Exorcists, 3 Battle Sister squads (1 in Rhino, 1 in Repressor), 2 Dominion in Immolators and Retribution squad with couple of Hv bolters - I forgot my Ageis line on the night so chucked in a few more Seraphim!
Blood Angels had ? the Grim (character killer), 2 squads of Assault Marines - one with Sang Priest, 1 Tac squad with Sang Priest, 1 Assault Terminator Squad with Sang Priest, Triple LC Predator and 2 Dreadnoughts - one with frag cannon in drop pod. We were playing the VP for killing mission - long ways deployment
Seeing his army was small and not very shooty - did not reserve anything and started as close to the centre with the whole army as possible. Night fighting first turn meant even with searchlights only knocked off a HP from the deployed Dreadnought. He dropped his Dreadnought behind my advancing line and fragged a couple of Seraphim and Grims Assault squad and Predator took out my lead Dominions Immolator.
I continued to push forward - vaped the Dreadnought in front and killed the assault squad accompanying Grim, swung my Retributors and reserve foot BS into and took a HP of the Dreadnought behind. He countered by snipping St C with the Predator and then charging her Seraphim with Mr Grim who slaughtered them and jogged towards the Assault Terminators who had appeared as well. The remaining Assault squad.took out the other Immolator in CC.
Make or break turn! St C stood up and jetted over to the Assault Marines - not fancying her chances against Mr Grim (2+ Armour, AP Axe that makes you re-roll successful Invuln saves), the Dominions melted him instead, the Repressor burned a Terminator alive and St Celestine assaulted the Assault Marines, killing the Sarge who had challenged her.
The remaining Dreadnought having weathered the fire from one Exorcist - promptly charged and blew it up. The Assault Terminators headed towards the other! The Predator blew up the Repressor. St. C finished off the A Marines and headed for the Tac squad.
The last Exorcist spun round and with the BS squad fired at the advancing Terminators – no effect! The Dreadnought blew up from fire by the remaining Sororitas forces. St C killed the Tac squad Sergeant after assaulting and the Dominions on foot both headed on a long slog towards the lone Predator at the edge of the board.
The Assault Terminators charged the Exorcist and the Drop pod again fired at the BS squad to no effect. The Assault Terminators ripped into the Exorcist with lightning claws – no effect The Thunder Hammers hit it with 4 penetrating hits – 3 Shield of Faith rolls!! The Exorcist was just temp immobilised and only firing snap shots. This left bit of a weird situation – the Terms were still in contact with the vehicle which could not drive away…….we talked it through and he was happy for them not to count as still in Close Combat.
The Exorcist fired 6 missiles – 3 (!) snap shots hit and vaped 3 Termintors – the BS squad killed the other two, which pretty much finished the game – St C killed the remaining Tac Marines and after the Predator missed the Dominions with 1 TL and 2 normal Lascannons – he conceded.
Good fun game with some back and forth and a couple of pivotal turns, also good use of terrain and no fortifications made the game different to most games at the club!
ClockworkZion wrote: Out of curiousity have people been trying out the Preda-Repressors? How have they been working out for you guys?
I got best general at a 4 rd tournament locally with a high AV spam list (bunch of repressors and exos, some chimera, etc). It was nasty. Nothing more demoralizing than not being able to open your opponent's transports to get the contents. AV13 with 6++ is hilarious.
Good to know! I just need to figure out how to get FW to sell me Repressors as an upgrade kit along side the MkII Rhino parts now....
That and the MKII Rhino peices along with the GW Immolator kit.
The problem with repentia is T3 with FNP. Most of their FNP is ignored and they have a crap save. Most opponents are going to fire one squad at them and make them disappear.
I just don't see them getting to where they need to get. Even if they do, they strike last and probably get wiped before initiative so only get 1 attack a piece (if faith works).
Survivability is a big deal for Conclave. and I don't consider Jacobus a tax since I often take him anyways.
That's fair. The big thing for me is that even if the Repentia don't make it (and they sometimes don't) they turn into a massive distraction for my opponent. Striking last or not, S6 Chainfists scare people.
And everytime people try and kill them they're not shooting at anything else, which gives me more time to get across the board and get into proper kill ranges. And if they get ignored then people learn why they should be shooting at them.
For their points cost I don't think they're all that bad honestly. They're 65 points cheaper than a full sized Battle Conclave with Jacobus (100 points cheaper if the Conclave buys a Rhino), aren't as reliant on vehicles to cross the board (that is as long as you're smart about screening them properly like Seraphim). They also don't lose their FnP if their support character dies.
I think it comes down to what you want out of the unit. If we had access to an assault vehicle like a Land Raider, or some kind of modified Rhino I'd be more for the Conclave too, but they just haven't been as good since the changes occured while the Repentia have gotten a bit better (Rage is better, Fleet is still good, FnP is harder to deny, and they can use that with their Invul save, plus tanking the Mistress of Repentence in the front helps).
And anything that takes FnP from Repentia takes it away from Jacobus' unit too. That's part of the reason I don't see them as being significantly better, we have to pay a chunk of points for the FnP, which is on a model who honestly isn't that hard to kill, and even more points to buy them some mobility in a transport they can't even assault out of.
Don't get me wrong, the Conclave is great at holding the rear lines and acting as a counter-charge unit, but people say that about Repentia too.
ClockworkZion wrote: Good to know! I just need to figure out how to get FW to sell me Repressors as an upgrade kit along side the MkII Rhino parts now....
That and the MKII Rhino peices along with the GW Immolator kit.
Ramshackle. I can't wait to get my vehicles from them.
And anything that takes FnP from Repentia takes it away from Jacobus' unit too. That's part of the reason I don't see them as being significantly better, we have to pay a chunk of points for the FnP, which is on a model who honestly isn't that hard to kill, and even more points to buy them some mobility in a transport they can't even assault out of.
I agree with most of your points but this. The difference is that Repentia ONLY have FNP going for them. Conclave have great saves otherwise.
ClockworkZion wrote: Good to know! I just need to figure out how to get FW to sell me Repressors as an upgrade kit along side the MkII Rhino parts now....
That and the MKII Rhino peices along with the GW Immolator kit.
Ramshackle. I can't wait to get my vehicles from them.
ClockworkZion wrote: And anything that takes FnP from Repentia takes it away from Jacobus' unit too. That's part of the reason I don't see them as being significantly better, we have to pay a chunk of points for the FnP, which is on a model who honestly isn't that hard to kill, and even more points to buy them some mobility in a transport they can't even assault out of.
I agree with most of your points but this. The difference is that Repentia ONLY have FNP going for them. Conclave have great saves otherwise.
I think that's open to interpretation honestly. I don't see a 5++ as "great" honestly. You have to take a Crusader Tax for the "good" saves (3++) which impacts the unit's close combat ability for each on you take.
And Repentia have a 6++ followed by the 5+ FnP. That's not bad considering their cost (and what they used to have in C:WH, which was basically nothing).
pretre wrote: Ramshackle. I can't wait to get my vehicles from them.
Never heard of them.
Spoiler:
I think that's open to interpretation honestly. I don't see a 5++ as "great" honestly. You have to take a Crusader Tax for the "good" saves (3++) which impacts the unit's close combat ability for each on you take.
And Repentia have a 6++ followed by the 5+ FnP. That's not bad considering their cost (and what they used to have in C:WH, which was basically nothing).
5++/FNP is better than 6++/FNP. And Crusaders with Axes are actually pretty good. Especially since the loss of Init doesn't hurt them and they get +1 attack and rerolls anyways.
pretre wrote: Ramshackle. I can't wait to get my vehicles from them.
Never heard of them.
Spoiler:
It looks alright. I was thinking more of kitbashing the MkII Rhino with the Immolator since the side sections of the MkII are based off the old classic Rhino model and look different from the now "standard" Rhino.
I think that's open to interpretation honestly. I don't see a 5++ as "great" honestly. You have to take a Crusader Tax for the "good" saves (3++) which impacts the unit's close combat ability for each on you take.
[quote=pretre 434801 6066316 26ff2c1b9c6e1675359196327d34eaa7.jpgAnd Repentia have a 6++ followed by the 5+ FnP. That's not bad considering their cost (and what they used to have in C:WH, which was basically nothing).
5++/FNP is better than 6++/FNP. And Crusaders with Axes are actually pretty good. Especially since the loss of Init doesn't hurt them and they get +1 attack and rerolls anyways.
Now that's a little misleading of a statement there. The Death Cult Assasins only have the 5+ FnP with a 90 point character model tax that can also cost you a slot in the unit (if you want to put them in a Rhino). To put it into perspective, that 90 points divided among the unit (we'll say 10 models counting Jacobus) means you basically pay 9 points for Jacobus, and 9ppm for each other model in his unit making those Assasins basically work out to 24 points each with their FnP. That's 7 points per model more than a Repentia for the same basic effect.
And let's not forget that Jacobus is by no means a CC-loving character himself with his wimpy hand-weapon/laspistol combo. He's a support character who, because of the 6th Edition Assault Rules) has to try and push to the front of combat every turn meaning that depending on how casualties occur may result in him being in harm's way pretty quickly, especially after the Death Cult Assasins after the first time you make it into combat.
I've found that the Jacobus Tax works better in a 20 Sister Horde holding an objective. They're stubborn on Ld10, making them hard to pin, and with Jacobus and the Superior they only need a 3+ to activate their Act of Faith to become Fearless and stand up again if you've been pinned or gone to ground (BRBFAQ for that trick). 21 Models (counting Jacobus) means the unit pays around 4.29 points per model for the benefits Jacobus gives, basically making him cost the same to field him.
I'm not denying that Death Cult Assassins and Jacobus get along great, that's a well known fact, but I really don't feel we can say they are that significantly better than their other dedicated CC-counterpart the Repentia.
Now that's a little misleading of a statement there. The Death Cult Assasins only have the 5+ FnP with a 90 point character model tax that can also cost you a slot in the unit (if you want to put them in a Rhino).
It isn't a tax. You have to take a confessor to get one. I take Jacobus all the time anyway for his other benefits.
To put it into perspective, that 90 points divided among the unit (we'll say 10 models counting Jacobus) means you basically pay 9 points for Jacobus, and 9ppm for each other model in his unit making those Assasins basically work out to 24 points each with their FnP. That's 7 points per model more than a Repentia for the same basic effect.
Plus an extra attack, plus rerolls on the charge.
And let's not forget that Jacobus is by no means a CC-loving character himself with his wimpy hand-weapon/laspistol combo. He's a support character who, because of the 6th Edition Assault Rules) has to try and push to the front of combat every turn meaning that depending on how casualties occur may result in him being in harm's way pretty quickly, especially after the Death Cult Assasins after the first time you make it into combat.
You keep him in the back. He declines challenges and doesn't fight. DCA combats do not grind on more than one or two phases. Either everything in the unit explodes in a fine red mist or you lose and die horribly.
I've found that the Jacobus Tax works better in a 20 Sister Horde holding an objective. They're stubborn on Ld10, making them hard to pin, and with Jacobus and the Superior they only need a 3+ to activate their Act of Faith to become Fearless and stand up again if you've been pinned or gone to ground (BRBFAQ for that trick). 21 Models (counting Jacobus) means the unit pays around 4.29 points per model for the benefits Jacobus gives, basically making him cost the same to field him.
The difference is that the rest of his bonuses (+1 attack and Rerolls) are wasted and a 20 sister horde is basically only good for sitting on an objective. I'd rather put him in a 30-40 guard blob than do that. At least they are good at mulching things or tying up CC units.
I'm not denying that Death Cult Assassins and Jacobus get along great, that's a well known fact, but I really don't feel we can say they are that significantly better than their other dedicated CC-counterpart the Repentia.
It's really up to you, but I have never seen Repentia be cool. I have seen Battle Conclave eat through half of my opponent's army. /shrug The number of attacks, variety of power weapons and rerolls on the charge are a big deal that Repentia just don't have. Swinging at Initiative 5 instead of Initiative 1 can be a game changer.
All that being said, I wouldn't run either right now so it doesn't really matter.
It's really up to you, but I have never seen Repentia be cool. I have seen Battle Conclave eat through half of my opponent's army. /shrug The number of attacks, variety of power weapons and rerolls on the charge are a big deal that Repentia just don't have. Swinging at Initiative 5 instead of Initiative 1 can be a game changer.
All that being said, I wouldn't run either right now so it doesn't really matter.
Eating through half my opponents army is what I field Repentia for - I've never seen it not happen if my Seraphim/vehicle screen holds up. The problem is my Seraphim and vehicles are dying too fast too screen my Repentia in the new meta. I've tried running conclaves forward with the Reps for added target saturation, but they fall behind too fast and do too little in comparison - it's not that they are not dangerous, just that they are easier to avoid. Which is why I use them for countercharge these days.
Jacobus definitely makes them better, but not faster - I'd rather have fearless troops via Kyrinov and Celestine leading my screen.
Now that's a little misleading of a statement there. The Death Cult Assasins only have the 5+ FnP with a 90 point character model tax that can also cost you a slot in the unit (if you want to put them in a Rhino).
It isn't a tax. You have to take a confessor to get one. I take Jacobus all the time anyway for his other benefits.
You have to take a Confessor of some kind to field DCA, sure, but only Jacobus gives FnP. I still think of Confessors as a tax because I have to take them to get the unit I really want. Either way the additional points spent on those models means that I've got less room in the list elsewhere for other stuff.
To put it into perspective, that 90 points divided among the unit (we'll say 10 models counting Jacobus) means you basically pay 9 points for Jacobus, and 9ppm for each other model in his unit making those Assasins basically work out to 24 points each with their FnP. That's 7 points per model more than a Repentia for the same basic effect.
Plus an extra attack, plus rerolls on the charge.
Repentia can get re-rolls to hit on the charge too by buying a character or tagging along with a Confessor (or Jacobus). The point remains that these bonuses aren't built into either unit but are built into the character model you take to tag along with that unit.
And let's not forget that Jacobus is by no means a CC-loving character himself with his wimpy hand-weapon/laspistol combo. He's a support character who, because of the 6th Edition Assault Rules) has to try and push to the front of combat every turn meaning that depending on how casualties occur may result in him being in harm's way pretty quickly, especially after the Death Cult Assasins after the first time you make it into combat.
You keep him in the back. He declines challenges and doesn't fight. DCA combats do not grind on more than one or two phases. Either everything in the unit explodes in a fine red mist or you lose and die horribly.
You might want to look at the assault rules again. Characters HAVE to move towards engaging the enemy every turn. So DCA go, then Jacobus toddles forward in their wake 3". The opponent moves up 3" about that time and now Jacobus is in slapping range.
I've found that the Jacobus Tax works better in a 20 Sister Horde holding an objective. They're stubborn on Ld10, making them hard to pin, and with Jacobus and the Superior they only need a 3+ to activate their Act of Faith to become Fearless and stand up again if you've been pinned or gone to ground (BRBFAQ for that trick). 21 Models (counting Jacobus) means the unit pays around 4.29 points per model for the benefits Jacobus gives, basically making him cost the same to field him.
The difference is that the rest of his bonuses (+1 attack and Rerolls) are wasted and a 20 sister horde is basically only good for sitting on an objective. I'd rather put him in a 30-40 guard blob than do that. At least they are good at mulching things or tying up CC units.
You're right, the Guard Squad can potentially do it better...if you ally Sisters to Guard or vice-versa, but for those of us who play Mono-Sisters the 20-Sister Blob is a great rear-line objective holder. I like mine with a Heavy Bolter and a Melta Gun.
I'm not denying that Death Cult Assassins and Jacobus get along great, that's a well known fact, but I really don't feel we can say they are that significantly better than their other dedicated CC-counterpart the Repentia.
It's really up to you, but I have never seen Repentia be cool. I have seen Battle Conclave eat through half of my opponent's army. /shrug The number of attacks, variety of power weapons and rerolls on the charge are a big deal that Repentia just don't have. Swinging at Initiative 5 instead of Initiative 1 can be a game changer.
All that being said, I wouldn't run either right now so it doesn't really matter.
You're right, it really is up to player preference, and that's all I really was trying to say. Neither is inherently better than the other, they both have pros and cons and that's fine. It really comes down to what you want/need the unit to do and what your facing in the long run on if either unit will work for you or not. Traditionally I've run both at the same time to give me more options and counter-charge options but with 6th being less favorable to the assault heavy army I'm looking at dropping the Jacobus squad for putting him in my objective holding blob and only taking the Repentia as they're the unit that I seem to still get the most mileage out of thanks to them being generally quicker across the board now and not needing to "borrow" Rhinos to ride in anymore.
And even if they don't make it across the board they're still a cheaper distraction unit that the Battle Conclave is.
ClockworkZion wrote: Repentia can get re-rolls to hit on the charge too by buying a character or tagging along with a Confessor (or Jacobus). The point remains that these bonuses aren't built into either unit but are built into the character model you take to tag along with that unit.
You keep separating the Jacobus and the conclave. He is required to take the unit. He is also well worth taking otherwise.
You might want to look at the assault rules again. Characters HAVE to move towards engaging the enemy every turn. So DCA go, then Jacobus toddles forward in their wake 3". The opponent moves up 3" about that time and now Jacobus is in slapping range.
Yep, but the thing you charged is already dead by the time he gets engaged.
pretre wrote: You're right, the Guard Squad can potentially do it better...if you ally Sisters to Guard or vice-versa, but for those of us who play Mono-Sisters the 20-Sister Blob is a great rear-line objective holder. I like mine with a Heavy Bolter and a Melta Gun.
I'd rather have another sister squad.
And even if they don't make it across the board they're still a cheaper distraction unit that the Battle Conclave is.
Full battle conclave: 150, Full Repentia: 175. If you're already taking Jacobus or Kyrinov (which you are for your 20 blob), then the conclave is cheaper.
ClockworkZion wrote: Repentia can get re-rolls to hit on the charge too by buying a character or tagging along with a Confessor (or Jacobus). The point remains that these bonuses aren't built into either unit but are built into the character model you take to tag along with that unit.
You keep separating the Jacobus and the conclave. He is required to take the unit. He is also well worth taking otherwise.
I'm not separating him, he's not buying the Conclave as a retinue, he doesn't even have to deploy with them. Is he a key part of what makes the Conclave awesome? Yes. But he doesn't have to be there to have the Conclave do their job. They just do it better when he's there, and that's why I don't treat them as a single unit when I look at the Conclave.
You might want to look at the assault rules again. Characters HAVE to move towards engaging the enemy every turn. So DCA go, then Jacobus toddles forward in their wake 3". The opponent moves up 3" about that time and now Jacobus is in slapping range.
Yep, but the thing you charged is already dead by the time he gets engaged.
Not always a good thing because then you're often just standing about and waiting to get shot then.
You're right, the Guard Squad can potentially do it better...if you ally Sisters to Guard or vice-versa, but for those of us who play Mono-Sisters the 20-Sister Blob is a great rear-line objective holder. I like mine with a Heavy Bolter and a Melta Gun.
I'd rather have another sister squad.
I take 3 BSS at 1.5K normally. 2 squads of 10, 1 squad of 20.
And even if they don't make it across the board they're still a cheaper distraction unit that the Battle Conclave is.
Full battle conclave: 150, Full Repentia: 175. If you're already taking Jacobus or Kyrinov (which you are for your 20 blob), then the conclave is cheaper.
I pretty much always take Celestine because she's pretty troll-worthy but not so much on Jacobus or Kyrinov. The Conclave requires a transport more than the Repentia to get around (minimum 35 points) which means they actually end up running you at least 185 minimum, more if you put Jacobus or Kyrinov into the same unit as you're concentrating more points into a single unit.
Like I said before, if the Conclave had access to an assault vehicle they'd be a much better purchase, but without one they're about on par in my book with Repentia. It just comes down to what you're trying to do with them on which you should be fielding.
I've used both the conclave and repentia and they both mulch any infantry very quickly.
My experience:
-Conclaves tend to survive longer because of the 3++ crusaders.
-Conclaves can't deal with tanks
-Uriah was built to make this unit even more awesome
-Repentia will kill anything they are able to swing at
-Attrition hit repentia HARD
-Repentia are generally not good at assaulting dedicated hand to hand units due to striking last
-I agree with a previous poster, its fun watching someone take a land raider off the table before all of the pen rolls are made. Amazing against tanks!
Personally, i've been favoring the conclaves because of survivability.
Its ashame neither of them can be troop choices like GK henchmen can be... oh well
At S5 you can take anything that isn't a walker or doesn't have an AV value on the rear higher than 11. So heavy tanks are out, but everything else is pretty much in.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So slight change of pace: I've been considering using my Avenger Strike Fighters again but I'm not sure if I have the current rules anymore. The last book I've got with them is IA: Areonautica. Do I need a new book so I can use the current rules?
ClockworkZion wrote: At S5 you can take anything that isn't a walker or doesn't have an AV value on the rear higher than 11. So heavy tanks are out, but everything else is pretty much in.
DCA are S4. Maces make them S6.
So slight change of pace: I've been considering using my Avenger Strike Fighters again but I'm not sure if I have the current rules anymore. The last book I've got with them is IA: Areonautica. Do I need a new book so I can use the current rules?
That's the one. I made one but never use it. The side armor 10 is rough.
ClockworkZion wrote: At S5 you can take anything that isn't a walker or doesn't have an AV value on the rear higher than 11. So heavy tanks are out, but everything else is pretty much in.
DCA are S4. Maces make them S6.
Ah, you're right. For some reason I was thinking they were S3. I think my brain was still asleep.
So slight change of pace: I've been considering using my Avenger Strike Fighters again but I'm not sure if I have the current rules anymore. The last book I've got with them is IA: Areonautica. Do I need a new book so I can use the current rules?
That's the one. I made one but never use it. The side armor 10 is rough.
I don't mind the side AV so much, but the thing that annoys me is that their 2 Hull Points in that book but if you look in IA12 they have 3 Hull Points (we can't take those though as they're part of a squadron for Krieg).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Eh, I emailed FW about it just to see if it's an error of if IA Areonautica should use the 3 HP version instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well that was quick:
Forge World wrote:
Hi there.
The Hull Points value in IA 12 is actually incorrect and the Aeronatica version has the correct value so please accept our apologies.
If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
The codex has 3 SCs, and really of the SCs we've had in the past we're only missing Praxedes. I hope we get her back again eventually. It's not like codexes don't have SCs who die as still playable choices anyways.
SisterSydney wrote: Someone should write up Pradexes for 6th. We haven't had her since, what, the 1990s?
Updating all the previous SoB characters to 6th is on my todo list, I've just been so crazy busy for the last 2 weeks pretty much *nothing* has got done.
SisterSydney wrote: Someone should write up Pradexes for 6th. We haven't had her since, what, the 1990s?
She last appeared in the 2nd Ed codex it seems (unless she reappeared afterwards in a supplement of some kind). I've gother old rules, I just don't know if there is a good way to do a straight conversion on her to bring her over to the current ruleset. I also don't have a good working knowledge of 2nd Edition so I don't know how everyone else changed over in relation to her.
She looks like a real monster on the table though. I doubt anyone I know would let me run her for anything.
Got to face off with the new Marines again today. And got the delightful moment where I managed to Lock Velocity on his zooming Stormraven...with its payload of Assault Centurions inside. :3 He was too squeamish about a risky drop with them until the very end of the game, and when they did make the drop, the Centurions scattered right onto a squad of mine and went poof.
NydusTemplar wrote: Was wondering where on this forum I might (when I'm a bit happier with it) post my homebrew Sisters codex. Seems the thread to find out.
NydusTemplar wrote: Was wondering where on this forum I might (when I'm a bit happier with it) post my homebrew Sisters codex. Seems the thread to find out.
That'd be the Proposed Rules section, sir.
Thank you kindly. I'll post a link in here so the discussion can happen there.
SisterSydney wrote: Someone should write up Pradexes for 6th. We haven't had her since, what, the 1990s?
This is my 6th Edition take on her:
Wow, that took a couple hours, referencing C:SoB 2nd Edition, BRB 2nd Edition, C: SoB 5th Edition, and BRB 6th Edition. Aside from some language clean up, and preferred word choice of GW's, I think it came out nicely. I did have to tweak the Sceptre and Irresistible Charge a bit to make them work better with the fluff of the mace itself and 6th Edition assaults/challenges.
SisterSydney wrote: Someone should write up Pradexes for 6th. We haven't had her since, what, the 1990s?
This is my 6th Edition take on her.....
Nice work. Post her over in Proposed Rules requesting comment (and put a link here) so we can discuss her in depth while keeping this thread on-topic for the Tactics forum.
SisterSydney wrote: Someone should write up Pradexes for 6th. We haven't had her since, what, the 1990s?
This is my 6th Edition take on her.....
Nice work. Post her over in Proposed Rules requesting comment (and put a link here) so we can discuss her in depth while keeping this thread on-topic for the Tactics forum.
Yes, we do need more characters that aren't weird old men. Once I get a chance I'll take a look at the 40k scene here in Japan and let you know how the sisters are doing here.
It really boils down to what does 'updated for 6th edition' means.
Assuming this is all legit:
Warlord traits are in, which is quite nice.
I'd imagine an updated allies matrix as well, given the updates and confusion with the SM codex.
Probably a lot of wording updates for rules, with relatively little changed in the way of mechanics (like Seraphim getting that gunslinger rule and so on).
I'd say a stretch would be borrowing some AA elements, either one of the SMAA tanks, or maybe giving the Exorcist some AA option.
I think that the realistic scenario is this:
- Warlord Traits
- Updates to SC to assign specific warlord traits
- Corrects to typos
- Additional artwork / painted models
Adding new units or giving new options is reaaaaallly unlikely.
pretre wrote: I really doubt you will see anything like that.
I think that the realistic scenario is this:
- Warlord Traits
- Updates to SC to assign specific warlord traits
- Corrects to typos
- Additional artwork / painted models
Adding new units or giving new options is reaaaaallly unlikely.
Please prove me wrong, GW.
I've got my fingers crossed for 10 point Battle Sisters!
So stoked for new Codex... and I literally just bought another pair of WD's for $30 shipped on eBay... unrelated note, played two games this weekend, both against IG:
First game, 2k, played one of the Nova missions using table corners, 4 objectives and kill points.
His list:
HQ Commissars x 2
Elites:
2x Priests
Troops:
2x Vet squads in valks
2x platoons full of lascannons and autocannons
Heavy:
Deathstrike missle
2x manticores
Firestorm Redoubt
I ran:
HQ Celestine
Jacobus
Elites:
Repentia x 4 + Sister of Repentance
Troops
BSS in Rhino x 2
BSS on foot
Fast attack
Seraphim x 6 w/HF (w/Celestine)
2x Dom Squad x 5 in HF Immolator w/ Melta guns
Game went as such: He castled up behind the terrain in a far corner and proceeded to shoot, then moved a blob forward counting on his priest causing rerolls in CC to chew through the sisters. I outflanked one Dom squad to pop one Manticore, and scouted one forward to draw fire. The seraphim and repentia moved up one flank behind the rhinos with Jacobus and Celestine. The remaining BSS held one table quarter while Coteaz and Co hung out with the ADL. We shot back and forth for a couple turns, he killed both rhinos, the seraphim and Celestine (1st time). Ended up in CC between his forward blob squad and the remains of one BSS, while the surviving repentia moved around the middle terrain for fun. Both Valks came on around turn three/four to drop squads off, one on his second Obj and one midfield. My exorcists popped both while in hover mode, while the sisters mulched the midfield squad and Celestine resurrected to burninate/assault the backfield obj. My repentia were all killed, and my dismounted BSS holding my second backfield Obj ran off, fortunately Coteaz & company ran towards it, my lone sister from one of the mounted sister squads survived after multiple rounds of CC (with a little help from Jacobus and the mistress), linked up with Celestine and made it to his second backfield obj, while the remnants of my second mounted BSS moved towards my first backfield Obj. Ended up I had three objectives (barely) to his one, three table quarters, line breaker and kill points.
Game two was 1k against a different buddy and his guard list.
We rolled for mission, it Emperor's something, so one objective for each of us. He ran:
HQ Commissar
CO command squad
Troops:
2x platoons w/lascannons and autocannons (3 of each total)
Master of Ordinance
Heavy
Basilisk
Manticore
ADL no gun
I had:
HQ Celestine
Troops:
BSS in Rhino x 2
Fast:
Doms x 5 in HF Immolater
Heavy
2x Exorcists
ADL w/Quad Gun, running automated for fun
He started off castling up everything behind his ADL (no weapon system).
I ran Celestine up the board and killed both the manticore and Basilisk with my Exorcists. My Doms scouted up (should've outflanked) and drew fire/killed some stuff before going down to massed flashlights. He got a weapons destroyed on one Exorcist, thus is became an AV13 battering ram. Celestine flew up the board from cover to cover, burninating and assaulting his men. My one BSS and the working exorcist stayed in the rear. The other BSS made it pretty close to his lines, wrecked near some terrain and the sisters hopped out to shoot into his units. The non-shooting exorcists tank shocked one platoon, then one of his command squads just for fun. Celestine went down once in CC with his blob, only to get back up for more fun. We went to seven turns and she was still trucking with a single wound. Ended up I was contesting his objective, lost one Dom squad, one immolator, one rhino and part of a BSS. Celestine and my shooting (plus exploding vehicles) had torn up much of his platoons, whilst one exorcist and Celestine were within a couple inches of his objective.
Is that updated codex the one we've been waiting for? That either means the real one is far off or theyll just call it good and we will see no more for them.
MWHistorian wrote: Is that updated codex the one we've been waiting for? That either means the real one is far off or theyll just call it good and we will see no more for them.
It is likely that this is just the stop gap. Much like when we got a digital copy of C:WH. It really means nothing in the overall scheme of things. The fact that it may have SOME updates (most likely just warlord traits) is amazing in itself.
It's probably too much to hope they fix the D6 acts of faith so that it scales up for bigger games. D3 per 500 pts would be nice or goig back to a number of units generating system.
evildrcheese wrote: It's probably too much to hope they fix the D6 acts of faith so that it scales up for bigger games. D3 per 500 pts would be nice or goig back to a number of units generating system.
D
Has this been a problem recently? I guess I'm so used to low faith lists that I haven't run into any issues. We just don't need as much faith as we used to now that you only really use 1 faith per unit and have far fewer units that need it.
I find it problematic in games over 1500 but I admit my lists could be tighted up to allow wargear to reroll fails or get Jaco in for the reroll of the D6
I like the unit-by-unit unique AOFs because they add character, but the Witchhunters' list of Acts that any unit could use was way more flexible. Can't we have both? 4-5 Acts any Sisters unit can use and one that's unique to that type of squad?
The unit-by-unit AOF is good in principle, it's just that some of them are fairly useless for some units, say Celestians.
Now if Celestians could be armed with close combat weapons...
For some there's also the fact that they don't last long enough unlike psychic powers (getting Repentia assaulted to death in the enemy's turn makes me cry..)
hows this for what i think we will get fingers crossed. A couple new squads the revamping of the battle sisters making them into the size of 5 man squads so we can take Immolators again. A flyer or two. The Repressor engine with clear 6th edition rules. A couple nice characters with some force multiplys associated with them and a couple canoness that kick in faces and allow me to chance some groups into troops.
Shandara wrote: The unit-by-unit AOF is good in principle, it's just that some of them are fairly useless for some units, say Celestians.
Now if Celestians could be armed with close combat weapons...
For some there's also the fact that they don't last long enough unlike psychic powers (getting Repentia assaulted to death in the enemy's turn makes me cry..)
Making AoF usable each player turn and giving units more options (like the BSS one) would be REALLY handy.
ClockworkZion wrote: Making AoF usable each player turn and giving units more options (like the BSS one) would be REALLY handy.
That would be really cool. There is certainly precedent in the past.
Basically the idea is meshing the 3rd Ed and 6th Ed setup. Every Sororitas unit generates a point a turn (Palatines and Canoness generate 2 and 3 respectively) and each unit has a different act that can be used in every phase.
Idk about useless. Thats the relentless and move through cover one right? Personally I've always loved the idea of shooting a command squad up the field in a rhino, unloading them (for a 12" move), then firing my multi-meltas at whatever nasty thing I want melted without snap firing.
Sure, dom's do a very similar thing... but it would be nice to do it in tiers. That way you could back up the doms and the command squads could act as cleanup.
Would be nice to get standard Cannonness units that are worth taking.... maybe we will soon.
pretre wrote: Yeah, their act isn't useless. They are just too expensive to take.
Well, I always thought it was more I have to take a Canoness to access. It would be nice if St. C did this, then I would think about fielding one. But, as it is, there is no room in the forcce org since St. C is numero uno and Jacobus is second.
pretre wrote: Yeah, their act isn't useless. They are just too expensive to take.
Well, I always thought it was more I have to take a Canoness to access. It would be nice if St. C did this, then I would think about fielding one. But, as it is, there is no room in the forcce org since St. C is numero uno and Jacobus is second.
That is part of it.
Part 1: Canoness has no synergy to the unit with her act but is required to be taken.
Part 2: Canoness has no real role on the field in general.
Part 3: Canoness becomes a tax to take the unit.
Part 4: Unit is already kind of spendy for what it does.
I should have set up my qualification for useless. It's useless for how I use the command squad. I sit them back in the Aegis with heavy bolters while the cannoness uses the quad gun. Maybe two optional powers per unit or a pool of powers every unit can choose from?
MWHistorian wrote: I should have set up my qualification for useless. It's useless for how I use the command squad. I sit them back in the Aegis with heavy bolters while the cannoness uses the quad gun. Maybe two optional powers per unit or a pool of powers every unit can choose from?
I think you'll want to head over to the wishlist thread.
Ran two games with the girls today, first was against Ravenguard at 1850, second was against DA with some BA allies.
Game 1:
HQ Celestine
Jacobus
Elites
Preachers x 2
Troops
3 x BSS 20 girls with (Flamer and HB or MM in each)
HS Exorcist x 3
FA 2x Doms x 5 in Immolater w/ Flamersx 2 and Combi Flamer
Ravenguard
HQ Chaplain w/JP Libby
Troops
Tac squads x 3 in Rhinos
Tac squad in a dop pod (w/Techmarine)
FA VV squads w/JP (Chaplain with them)
Bike squad with melta, and MM attack bike
Elites
Sternguard in a rhino
Techmarine
HS Dev squad (combat squaded)
Roled dawn of war and the scouring.
Turn one: I let him go first, deployed my girls in three blobs in terrain, celestine solo, the Doms in reserve, one exorcist left, two on the right. He scouted pretty much everything using the RG rules. Shot up some girls, dropped the pod near two exorcists on my right. His meltas whiffed as did his lascannons, so only 1 HP between the two.
I went second and shot up a couple squads, killed some bikes and put a wound on a chaplain. Then I killed his techmarine and the guys that dropped in with him.
Turn two: He moved closer to get prepped for assault but didn't make it, wounded some more girls and hull points on the exorcists. I killed several more marines and did some more bike damage. I ran my middle squad with celestine into his vanguard squad. He challenged celestine with his HQ chaplain and went down. With rerolls to hit, the girls wrecked the squad.
Turn three, he popped an exorcist and wrecked another. He charged my squad with celestine with and walked through them. Celestine went down to massed hits. I killed a couple more marines and another bike. My HF Doms came in and did some damage to one five man dev squad with 2x plasma cannons, causing them to run.
Turn four: He shot up my far right squad, who failed a leadership check then ran off. Did some damage to my squad with Jacobus (on the left flank), then charged and died. My turn, remaining immolater came in, Celestine stood up, and I killed some stuff. Celestine ran across the board and pretty much wiped the remains of a tac squad and his bike squad.
Turn five: He did a little damage to the girls, claiming a 2 and 3 point objective. Celestine finished up the bike squad and tac squad at the 4 point objective. On my turn I moved a dom squad to claim the remaining three point (already holding the 2 point), then killed a couple more things.
Ended on turn five, we were both holding five points of objectives (Celestine was next to the 4 pt, but non-scoring). I had first blood, slay the warlord and we both had line breaker.
Lessons: Celstine is awesome against bikes, and even with 2 of 3 troops gone, the Immolater Doms were able to keep it going and claim an objective while disrupting his devs. Also, if you kill a chaplain at the start of your enemy's assault, his bonuses are lost before the squad can benefit. Also, slay the warlord for Celestine.
Game two was 2k vs Dark Angels
I ran:
Celestine
Jacobus
Troops
2x BSS in Rhino w/MM 1x BSS (10) w/HB and Jacobus
HS Exorcists x 3
Allied BA Sanguinor
Troops
Death Company x 10 in Drop Pod w/Infernus pistol and PF Sniper scouts x 5
HS Vindicator w/Siege Shiled
FA Baal Pred w/Flamestorm and HB sponsons
He ran:
Azrael
Elites
2x Deathwing Squads of five each
Troops
2x Tac Squads of ten
2x Ravenwing Squads (6 + MM Attack bike w/ Landspeeder each)
Heavy
2x Whirlwind
FA Nephilim Fighter
ADL w/ Quad Gun
Rolled for Big Guns never tire. Five objectives, ruins in the middle and each corner. He went first but i stole the initiative.
I had one exorcist, scouts and a rhino on the left in ruins, two exorcists , rhino and dismount squad on the right. Celestine, sanquinor started behind the vindicator and baal pred on the left center. Solid rolls and flaming wiped one full squad of bikes/landspeeder on the left flank. My drop pod landed right in front of his tac squads in the rear with Azrael and the Quad gun. They shot up about half of his squad. Both his termie squads came in and did some damage to the girls His whirlwinds put some damage on the girls, while his remaining bike/LS squad moved to pop an exorcist on the right flank. He tried to assault the DC but failed his distance.
Turn two: sanguinor got up close and personal to get read to assault, celestine went to his back left to (try) to pop a whirlwind. I killed a terminator from the right flank squad, and killed on from the left flank squad. He moved to pop my vindicator and the remaining exorcist on my right.
Turn three: I managed to kill the remaining bikes (LS lived on). I killed one squad of termies with my two BSS's and Jacobus. Celestine assaulted the whirlwind and failed. The Sanguinor assaulted his remaining tac squad and Azrael, failed miserably and died. HIs other terminator squad (the remains of it) got flamed by the baal predator and went down to three. On his turn, he killed Celestine and assaulted my scout squad with his terminators on my left corner. The scouts killed one termie and stayed in combat, losing their sergeant. The fighter came on and put same damage on my remaining Exorcis
Turn four. Celestine got back up and burninated Azrael and the remains of his last tac squad, then assaulted them, dying to Azrael's S6 attack. My BSS hull pointed his remaining LS, while the Baal ran up toward the whirlwind on the left near an objective, put a couple shots and got a glance with heavy bolter. My BSS moving towards the middle objective failed their leadership test and started running after taking a wound from the nephilim.
Turn five: Celestine gets back up with all wounds (again), the baal pred moves closer to his whirlwind, and my BSS runs towards the back of the board (failing their act of faith). My BSS's hold my objectives. The Baal manages to pop the whirlwind holding one of his objectives by shooting the rear armor, while Celestine charges, killing Azrael in the process. His turn five the Nephilim kills one girl, Celestine kills all but one tac marine (poor rolls), and his survivng whirlwind claimed one objective. Rolled and it ended.
End of the game he had a Nephilim, one Whirlwind, a lone tac marine and the ADL. I had Celestine, two near full BSS's, two rhinos, the Baal and Jacobus, while one BSS was running away.
Lessons: Sanguinor has only 3 wounds and is way overpriced. If I hadn't stolen the initiative, the game would have been very differnt, as his extra multi meltas would have killed the Baal and/or Vindicator.
How's running BA as allies working out for you? I'm considering running a bike libby (Divination) with 2x melta attack bikes for heavy armour hunting with a troop of 5assault marines (nojump packs) in a lazorback offering a las shot a turn.
I think one Vindi is only effective as a bullet magnet (save our rhinos for an extra turn?), when it comes to damage output you really need 2+ vindis in my experience so getting Vindis from BA doesn't really appeal. Besides we've got exorcists for high S low ap firepower.
I think Baals would synergise better tbh. A stormraven might be a better use of the heavy slot than the Vindi, but you're gettng really pricey for allies at that point.
It was my first game allying in BA, normally I run Coteaz w/henchmen and maybe some termies or a Dreadknight. I really like Div libbies and in hindsight, I should have ran one instead of the Sanguinor.
My thoughts so far:
1. Baal Pred outflanking could be great with Doms in Immolaters, I plan to try this soon. 1x Baal and 2-3 Dom Squads is a lot of outflanking nastiness.
2. Vindicators- I really wish I could run two or three, but with first turn, running one can be a great deterrent to enemy TEQ/MEQ and high toughness models. Keeping it behind some cover when going second can also be a solid strategy. I don't like to think of them as bullet soaks, but they are one more high armor target to shoot at with my three exorcists, so the enemy has to choose.
3. Stormraven: I haven't run one yet, but I think the BA version is arguably the best due to its bloodstrike missiles.
4. Libbies: Divination libbies are great, sadly they can't cast on SoB units.
5. Drop Pods: A single drop pod arriving turn one can unload some solid units that require the enemy's attention, and can ease the fire focused on the main force.
I plan to run some more BA allies with the Sisters in the near future, probably something like this:
HQ: Div libby (maybe epistolary)
Elites: Priest (possibly w/Assault Marines)
Troops:
Sniper Scouts w/Camo Cloaks, 90-100 points (w/ML) can put out a solid amount of wounds, and if I run a larger squad, the Div libby can cast prescience and make up for the BS3.
DC in a drop pod: I think they can still be effective, and if they last 2-3 turns, its that much less shooting at a scoring unit.
DC Dread in a drop pod: Similar to above, if only they could assault out of the pod.
FA Baal outflanking, probably HB side sponsons and Flamestorm cannon.
HS Vindicator w/Siege Shield, because fast vindicator.
Had a great game last night in preparation for a small tournament in a weeks time. The tournament is a slighty fluffy 1500pt 3 game single day affair. Forgeworld allowed including lists and Betrayer Legion lists (there are quite a few 30k players around here). There are a few comp aspects in place such as only 2 FMC or flyers per army.#, max 2 wave serpants, 2 choices from forgeworld only (unless forgeworld only list). Additional points are gained from painting, basing, theme/fluffiness, and sportsmanship.
Anyway i arranged a practice game last night against a Sons of Horus Legion army. Heres his list...ish:
Praetor - Artificer armour, iron halo, Power weapon, plasma pistol - Rite of war pride of the legion (makes Veteran squads troops but also gives an additional secondary objective point if all veterans are wiped out)
Master of Signal - Artificer armour
8 man Veteran Tac Squad - 5 power weapons(axes and swords), 1 thunder hammer, artificer armour on sergeant
10 man Tac Squad in a rhino - Sergeant with artificer armour and power sword
5 man Heavy support squad - 5 missile launchers
Legion Predator - 2 sponson lascannons, turret Executioner plasma destroyer (3x 3"blast plasma cannon that doesnt get hot!), machine spirit
2 x 10 BSS squad in Repressor - NO heavy or special weapons in squads
2 x 7 Seraphim squads - 2 x 2HF, Melta bombs on Superior
1 x 5 Dom squad - 2 x MG, 1x CM, in Immolator with MM
1 x 6 Ret Squad - 4xHB
Exorcist
2 x Penitent Engines
We played the Relic with standard deployment, He gave me first turn and i deployed the dominions as scouts rather than outflanking and the seraphim started on the pitch..
There was a decent amount of terrain on the board , with a fortress of redemption (dilapidated) in/on the edge of his deployment zone on the right hand side, a bastion (dilapidated) on the left at the edge of my DZ, an ADL split into 2 parts, half in his DZ to the far left and half in mine towards the rear middle. a couple of hills, one close to the FoR towards the centre of the board edge in his DZ, another in my DZ next to the ADL and some woods/ craters in the intervening land between the two DZ's. There was No terrain within 6" of the relic though.
I deployed my Repressors at the edge of my DZ one next to the bastion and the other along side a wood pointing towards the FoR. My exorcist and rets sat behind my bit of ADL. Repentia behind the woods and repressor, 1 unit of seraphim were behind the bastion and the other(with celestine) behind the repressor next to the woods. My Penitent engines were at the edge of my DZ towards the right.
He deployed his Heavy support squad behind his bit of ADL on the Far left.. The rest hid behind the FoR very close to each other in a box formation.
I redeployed my scouts to within 6" of the FoR out of LoS of everything apart from his heavy support squad, and with front armour pointing towards the gap where his tanks would have to come out.
Anyway. On turn 1 i moved my repentia, penitent engines, seraphim with celestine as fast as they could towards the gap between the FoR and a nearby hill where his tanks would emerge. The repressors moved steadily towards the Relic taking cover from the other units in front of them. The other seraphim B-lined towards the heavy support squad. The Exorcist shot at the heavy support squad (the only target it could see) and killed 2 of them.
His turn 1 - shot his heavy support squad at the seraphim coming towards them, and killed 2. They passed their morale check. His other tanks poked their noses out around the corner and shot at the Repressor (taking a hull point) and the seraphim with celestine (killing celestine with a plasma shot).
After this the game got very very messy with all the shooting and combat concentrating just past the relic on his side of the board.
Highlights(lowlights depending on your point of view) include:
- His contemptor making a 10" charge through difficult terrain(my wrecked immolator) to mash the final penitent engine. Damn Fleet!
- My Repentia making a charge on the contemptor and shredding it (only 2 girls got to it)
- My Seraphim butchering his heavy support squad and master of signal in 1 turn of shooting
- Turn 4 where i had rolled 6 faith points and failed every single one, meaning i shot almost my entire army (seraphim, rets, 1 repressor, exorcist) at his tactical squad and caused the grand total of 2 casualties!
- Forgetting that his land raider had armoured ceramite and therefore thinking a MM would kill it....stupid
- Wiping his vet squad with 2 rounds of Ret and seraphim shooting, after they jumped out then back in, then back out of their land raider!
- Celestine hitting nothing the entire game and only getting back up once - In the end she was worth Slay the Warlord and First Blood to my opponent!
Going into the last turn (turn 6) he needed to wipe 8 battle sisters from the squad holding the relic with the combined fire of his land raider, predator (it was immobilised by could see the relic) and the remnants of his tac squad. He managed to cause 8 wounds from the predator which i promptly managed to save all of with my cover save! Then in the last ditch attempt the remaining sergeant from the Tac squad charged the relic holding BSS squad, killing two and taking no wounds. So i took my break test needing 7 or under and rolled a 6! Meaning i held the relic, had slay the warlord and i had wiped out all of his veterans:
Victory to the Sisters Venatores - 5-2 over the Sons of Horus Legion
This game was fantastic and my opponent was a great sport. It was really tight going into the roll for the 6th turn and had it not gone that far then it would have been a win to him 2-1 (he had Celestine down and i had linebreaker)
Im definitely falling in love with Repressors, they can take some much battering and still be there annoying your enemy at the last turn. They were perfect for making sure i had units near the relic towards late game.
Also the mix of Repentia, seraphim, penitent engines and Repressors being aggressive worked really well, it was very hard for my opponent to prioritise what to kill at what time.
Cant wait for the tournament next weekend. Hopefully should finish respectably.
Any tweaks i could make to the list? I might drop the melta bombs of the mitress, she is always first to die in that squad anyway.
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For those of you that haven't noticed, the Sisters of Battle section on the Games Workshop website has been changed to Adepa Sororitas. (They also forgot to move it to the top spot in the list, so it's ruining their alphabetisation. xD)
But yeah, the Sisters army is now officially Adepta Sororitas, has an Army Essentials section, and a Paint Collection (colours for the Order of Our Martyred Lady)! Oh My!
Not been following the SoB for the last year or so (played only one game with the WD codex under the 5th edition rules) but, seeing as we are getting a shinyish new codex soon I'm gonna pick up my paintbrush again and see if i can get a couple of games in.
I used to play immo spam under 5th, does this still work in 6th edition? I do have about 75 infantry models so i could probably play a horde type army too if that's better. I only ask because i paint things pretty slowly and it would be nice to know in advance what i should work on to get a half decent army ready for tournaments.
So something like a couple of 20 girl squads, 2 exos, 2 doms in immolators, seraphim, Celestine and an Aegis?
Not looking for any waac list (probably not possible with SoB these days anyway) just something slightly competitive to ease me into a new ruleset
I can easily get hold of and, more importantly, afford FW stuff. Not sure how accepting the local gaming clubs are though - they could be a bit 'iffy' about allowing it in the past. I guess it's becoming more accepted though these days? Anything else apart from repressors worth getting?
So something like a couple of 20 girl squads, 2 exos, 2 doms in immolators, seraphim, Celestine and an Aegis?
Not looking for any waac list (probably not possible with SoB these days anyway) just something slightly competitive to ease me into a new ruleset
I can easily get hold of and, more importantly, afford FW stuff. Not sure how accepting the local gaming clubs are though - they could be a bit 'iffy' about allowing it in the past. I guess it's becoming more accepted though these days? Anything else apart from repressors worth getting?
My general lists have a core of something like this:
Celestine
2 Dominions in TL-MM Immo with 2xFlamer and Combi-Flamer
1 Dominion in Rhino with 2x Flamer, 2xMelta
2 Exorcists
Retributors (4xHB, Simulacrum) in Bastion
2-3 SOB Squads, 2 with Rhinos, on on top of bastion
Dominions and Exorcists are the standouts right now. Celestine is awesome. Seraphim make a great bodyguard for her and give her ablative wounds, extra templates and hit and run.
Allies are good. IG is GREAT for sisters. You can put a 30-50 blob down, throw Celestine and Jacobus on it and just have a good day.
Sisters can be very competitive right now, especially against all the MC spam that is going around with Eldar/Tau.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Good variants of SOB lists right now:
AV13 Spam (In FW environments, replace all the rhinos with Repressors and laugh hysterically. 3x Exorcists and 3-6 Repressors mean your opponent will have a bad day.)
Foot Sisters (I don't like this variant, but big blobs of girls with Uriah or Kyrinov. Penitents and Repentia for counter charge)
Sisters and Guard (big blob for Jacobus, Vendetta, Manticore, 2-3 Exorcists, Dominions, ooh yeah. I think this is one of our best lists right now.)
Alexi wrote: Yeah....a bad day playing Sisters...One of these days I will defeat them..I will.
What army were you using?
@thread
Yall that play games very often what army or types of armies do you find that sisters struggle against? I might be lucky enough to play 3 games in a year and usually just with friends so I don't really get a sense of what to expect from a organized tournament.
The sisters of battle and that brat St. C rofl stomped my Marines.. granted, I know I wasnt playing very well...well, I was plaing rather badly at that.
Yall that play games very often what army or types of armies do you find that sisters struggle against? I might be lucky enough to play 3 games in a year and usually just with friends so I don't really get a sense of what to expect from a organized tournament.
Nurgle CSM (with and without C : D allies) and Necrons (Wraith-spam not so much, but some of the other builds).
Automatically Appended Next Post: To elaborate, the problem I've been having against Nurgle CSM lists is that Plague Marines are like mini MCs unto themselves as far as wounding goes. Yeah a Melta will still generally kill one, but the massed Bolter fire is usually less effective due to their armor/FNP as well as the fact that there are more of them for the cost of the one MC that I would usually be focusing on killing. They don't typically give up many KP and they are boss at holding objectives. One of the last games I played, a Nurgle CSM Lord joined to a unit of Plague Marines grabbed and held onto the Relic (let's keep the discussion of whether 'The Relic' is a good or bad mission out of this) and there was pretty much no way I was going to dislodge that. But damned if I didn't try.
With Necrons, Warrior-spam with Ghost Arks and Annihilation Barges for support and various Lord builds are still doing well with a sprinkle of Wraiths for taste. With the Quantum Shielding and AV13 to begin with, they have been tough nuts to crack and can put out a disgusting number of shots at the same 12-24" zone we are good at. Assuming you blow up/get them out of the Arks, you then pretty much have to kill the Warriors in one unit completely at a time to hopefully stop RP. As with the CSM lists, they don't give up KP easily and can be somewhat difficult to dislodge their scoring units as they stay in their Arks until they need to get out to score, and then you have to essentially kill them all to stop them from getting back up.
