Yeah, I would agree that Necrons are the problem. NOt wraith spam, since those are easy. But croissant spam is hard since we don't have a lot of anti-air.
Av14 I sometimes find difficult. I bring plenty of melta in my BBS squads but my dice often betray be and roll a 1 then a 2 on the re-roll. It's like they know! Infact in a recent game Vs Crons I think I got 4 shots off with my meltas in half range, I think 2 missed on hit but failed to pen and the one that did pen I rolled a 1 on the damage table (making it a 3 from the plus 2 for ap1.) Unbelievable!
When the new dex drops I might drop some cash for a couple of Immos and some extra sistrs to fill out a couple of melta dom squads.
evildrcheese wrote: Av14 I sometimes find difficult. I bring plenty of melta in my BBS squads but my dice often betray be and roll a 1 then a 2 on the re-roll. It's like they know! Infact in a recent game Vs Crons I think I got 4 shots off with my meltas in half range, I think 2 missed on hit but failed to pen and the one that did pen I rolled a 1 on the damage table (making it a 3 from the plus 2 for ap1.) Unbelievable!
When the new dex drops I might drop some cash for a couple of Immos and some extra sistrs to fill out a couple of melta dom squads.
D
I think you might be the only SoBAS player in history I have every heard of having trouble with AV14.
Ran the girls in a game this weekend, used a battle mission out of the BM book, rolled 22 which was a chaos vs. loyalist version. My buddy ran a mostly ravenwing army as chaos, I ran my SoB with a small GK attachment. He got to go first, deployment zone was basically dawn of war, except there was only an 18" buffer between the two zones. The big change was, any non-vehicle unit that was totally killed would go into ongoing reserves and could return. IE, if a BSS was destroyed, they could come back via ongoing reserves, but their rhino could not. 2k lists each, lots of terrain, one half had a lot of urban terrain, other half was rock/forest mix.
He ran:
Azrael w/command squad and banner of devestation (the salvo one?) in a LR Crusader w/MM
Libby on bike w/force field thing and axe, command squad, apothecary etc.
Techmarine on bike w/force field
Two tac squads in rhinos
Two attack bikes w/MM
two (or three?) bike squads of six with plasma/melta mixed in
I ran:
Celestine
Jacobus
Doms w/ HF Immolators and melta x2 or melta/flamer and combi flamers
Pretty much went wave after wave. His guys would die, then outflank back onto the board. Celestine would die, then roll back on her own, or come back via reserves to kill more stuff. I pretty much ignored his LRC and focused on killing his troops. One squad of BSS went toe to toe against a bike squad for three turns before he finally broke contact after losing three bikes. We called it after turn five (running out of time), I had the bottom of the turn and killed more points, he called it before we finished the turn. I think I would have killed another unit or two if we finished up the round.
Learning points:
His LRC wasn't that effective, and I pretty much ignored it to focus on killing his troops. Celestine vs. rad grenades is a lose lose scenario, when she goes down to T2, pretty much anything will insta-kill her, which is a downer.
So now that we know we're getting 12 point Sisters still, but with the squad starting at five instead of 10, how's this going to affect people's play? As was said in the N&R forum, Immo spam is back baby! Also, think it is worth "upgrading" to the Vet Sister Superior? I know with how mine usually perform, I'd rather save the 10 points.
I think the 5 girl squads are a wonderful bonus. We'll see what they do with equipment prices etc. but it could be very good. 6 BSS squads of 5 girls with 1 heavy and 1 special in a rhino/immo could make a very nice list along with whatever else you bring.
Still not enough new info, but I like what I see so far.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote: So now that we know we're getting 12 point Sisters still, but with the squad starting at five instead of 10, how's this going to affect people's play? As was said in the N&R forum, Immo spam is back baby! Also, think it is worth "upgrading" to the Vet Sister Superior? I know with how mine usually perform, I'd rather save the 10 points.
It's that at 12 points, and 5 girls, they still apparently get 1 special + 1 heavy or special.
So I'll be taking squads of 5 with a Heavy Bolter, then even more repentia! : D
If the Vet Superior upgrade is applied universally across all squads I could see myself saving a few points here and there by not getting the upgrade on the Seraphim and perhaps not the Retributor squad. The 10 large Dominion squads I could see myself upgrading just for that +1 Ld for when the meatshield bolter sisters eat dirt.
Might have to rethink buying a 50man blog of IG now :S
How's about:
3x5 BSS in Repressor
1x10 BSS in Repressor
2 Exorcist
3 x Dominions in Immos
HQ
Hope that works out to ~1650pts..... maybe has room for another Exorcist or a small squad of Rets to camp on an ADL.
What i've seen so far of the new codex looks verrry nice, just hope they throw a bone to PE's.... got 7 of the things all glued and primed, be nice to have motivation to paint them.
Hah! If the flying nun makes a comeback i can see alot of folks getting upset (although without the 2++ it'll be a bit trickier to use). That was possibly the most broken HQ unit i've ever fielded in a game of 40k
Whilst it would be pretty funny to spam like 10 AV13 hulls onto the board i think mixing in a few immo's would make for a more balanced army, especially if the dom's can still scout/infiltrate.
Madcat87 wrote: If the Vet Superior upgrade is applied universally across all squads I could see myself saving a few points here and there by not getting the upgrade on the Seraphim and perhaps not the Retributor squad. The 10 large Dominion squads I could see myself upgrading just for that +1 Ld for when the meatshield bolter sisters eat dirt.
Exactly this...
On a 5 girl squad they are either going to be wiped out or fine. The extra point of leadership would help a bit with pinning, but we already have a faith power to help regroup so the extra LD isn't really necessary there.
I am most curious about whether we will get a skyfire act of faith, if Celestine's points are changing, and how expensive it will be to make a kick-ass jump-pack canoness
Two special weapobs in the 5sister BSS is certainly an interesting prospect. I'm gonna capitalise on this and take more Immos filled with 2 special weapons. Not sure about the vet upgrade as mentioned the small squads are super fragile so might be blown off the board before they even need to take a ld test,and as mentioned they have an AoF to help mitigate pinning and falling back BUT will the new faith system give us enough faith to ensure all the MSU are battle ready aswell as giving us perks for Rets/Sera/Doms? Tricky.
Really? It has been my experience that sisters tend to destroy anything with power armor and terminator armor.
Yes, heldrakes are a problem, but everything else simply falls under all of that AP1 you should be bringing to the battlefield.
I've been thinking aboyt the new dex. I reckon I'm still gonna run atleast one 10 sister strong bss squad with a vet in a rhino and then hopefully 2-4 5 sister squads in Immos depending on points cost. I think tge 10 strong can utilise going flat out to contest/take abjectives and will hopefully be a little more resilient and hopefully less likely to fall back due to the extra leadership.
Played two games last night, the last games with the WD dex!
First against SM, he was running a fluffy Dev heavy IF list, there wasn't a great deal of cover available so my exorcists were pretty brutal against his army and it was easy picking after i'd taken out everything that could threaten my vechicles. Felt a bit bad as he was a relatively new player and I ended up winning by quite a significant margin, I did try to help him out during the game and explain what I was doing and why, it didn't help that my dice were redhot (I've never rolled so many 6s for my exorcists). Anyway hopefully the experience won't put him off.
My second game was a doubles match with SM Sallies vs Eldar & Dark Eldar. We only got 2 turns in each as it as 1500 points per player but those 5two turns were pretty brutal, that Eldar dex can put out some serious firepower. We 'won' due to holding more objectives at the end of T2 but it was going well for us and I think we would've lost if it had continud. Highligh was a rhino rolling two 6s to ignore a pen and a glace from haywire grenades, lowlight was my rets failing a morale check and then runnin off the board after failing to regroup.
Dare I ask if we're going to start a new thread when the new dex is out or is that considered Herasey? Just thought this large thread might put off potential new starts to the army. Maybe it could be kicked off with an evaluation of the update?
evildrcheese wrote: Dare I ask if we're going to start a new thread when the new dex is out or is that considered Herasey? Just thought this large thread might put off potential new starts to the army. Maybe it could be kicked off with an evaluation of the update?D
We've been running this one since before the WD dex, so probably no.
Fair enough. I just thought that if anyone picks up the army following this release they'll have no idea where the discussions on the 'current (I.e the new) rules start.
Went to a doubles tourney with my sisters about a week ago, figured i'd give a little report of how it went.
The lists:
Sisters 750
Celestine
2x BSS with 2x flamers and rhinos
2x Dom squads with 2x melta and a combi melta in rhinos
IG Allies:
Creed with squd in chimera
2x Plasma Vets in chimeras
Bane wolf
Hydra flak tank
Game 1: vs Nids allied with Necrons
Spoiler:
So the rules for this tourney were that any of the allies would be considered battle brothers. I saw this heretical matchup (which is probably heretical from a xenos point of view as well) and was somewhat disturbed. Our opponents were quite good and they knew their lists well, but I was optimistic.
From memory they're lists were:
Nids
2x hive tyrants with lots of shooty stuff
a tervagant
1 unit of gaunts (whatever the tervagant spits out)
Necrons
destroyer lord riding in an ark
2x ghost arks full of necron warriors
2x annihilation barges
So the mission was 'relic' on the corners board. We rolled well on the setup and decided to try to go first, so we put our scouts on the field at the line (2x doms and the banewolf) and everything else behind them to make a grab at the relic turn 1. They placed their troops aggressively with the barges across the field from my doms (yes!). We scouted up the field ready to melt some arks.
Then they stole the initiative... things went downhill from there
So their turn 1 they took out or neutralized anything with a melta. One dom squad was decimated and the other was down to 2 meltas cowering near the relic. The meltas really needed to pop some of those barges if we had a chance to win this game because that was the most efficient way to get past the AV13. The tervagon also gave birth to a new unit of gaunts, but run out of larva.
Our turn 1 sent one sisters unit as close as possible to the relic, celestine joined that unit to tank some of the inevitable fire the rest of the army moved up the field and took ineffective potshots.
Their turn 2 saw them wipe out what was left of the doms and wipe out celestine and the BSS unit close to the relic. I realized at this point that the nid/cron strategy was to kill the sisters first... oh well.
Our turn 2. Had sisters unit #2 burn through the 'new' gaunt unit. It was nice to kill a unit completely in one shooting phase. Celestine also stood back up and burned the other gaunt unit, then charged them to start beating on them. that combat lasted 2 rounds before she killed what was left of that unit.
The rest of the game: I was completely wiped (except for celestine) very quickly, my ally couldn't do much against them. We ended up losing this fight fairly overwhelmingly. Looking back on it, I do not believe that there was a lot we could have done differently. It was just one of those bad matchups that go worse when dice decide to become heretical.
So, moving on
Round 2
Spoiler:
Round 2:
We went to round 2 and hoped for a better game. I kinda felt sorry for our opponents in round 1 because we didn't give them much of a match.
Them:
Space Marines (smurf rules) and Orks
From memory, the SM's were:
Librarian with 3 powers (vortex, and 2 others that didn't come up),
a combat squaded SM unit
whirlwind
Lascannon predator
some type of heavy weapons squad with lots of heavy tank busting weapons
Orks
Battle wagon with big roller
2 huge squads of orks, 30+ anyway per unit, one in the battlewagon
2 dakkajets
The game was kill points and the field was the first one (so the short sides of the table were the sides)
So all of the SM's were on the field at the start of the game, and the orks only had the battlewagon (everything else in reserve)
We ended up getting the first settup/turn again and this time they didn't steal initiative
Our turn 1 our scouts shot across the field. One dom unit jumped out in some cover near the battle wagon and the predator on the right side of the field (in melta range of both), the other dom squad and the chemical tank went near the 2 SM units on the left side of the field. We had the flak tank in reserve, but everything else opened fire on what was near them. The melta dom's failed to dent the battlewagon (boo!) but the chemical tank ate a bunch of SM and the BSS/vet squads and the dom's on the left side of the field shot down the remainders from the front squad. We picked off a couple of the heavy weapon squad taking cover in a center building as well. I also sent the dom's empty rhino as close as I was able to the battlewagon to block its movement. This was quite effective as it seemed that all of the anti tank weapons our enemy had were only for show and clearly not for actually firing.
Their turn 1. The SM player had some seriously poor luck with his dice, he opened up with pretty much every lascannon on my rhinos and failed to scratch them (or maybe took off a hull point). he did vortex the chemical tank on the other side of the field. They did take out most of the dom squad with small arms fire, was down to a bolter sister and the champ (so no meltas as I used the combi last turn) a little bit of position changes, but not much else.
Our turn 2. Roll for reserves... no flak tank (sorta good as there was also no planes to shoot down yet)
I put the whittled doms in charge range of the predator (melta bombs rock), I put Celestine in charge/burn range of the remaining SM squad with the librarian, and the rest of the army continued to shoot across the field to get into good spots. The empty rhino moved closer to block the battlewagon again. The charge immobilized the predator, Celestine killed the librarian outright, but left Celestine engaged with the remaining SM's and a couple more heavy weapon team members got plasma/bolter in the face.
At this stage the SM player had taken pretty much everything we could throw at him and it was showing. Lucky for him, his Ork allies decided to wake up and make it to the field.
Their turn 2. Every Ork in reserve showed up. The backfield filled with a large Ork unit wandering on the field and 2 dakka-jets swooped in with a trail of black smoke. Their shooting took out the 2nd dom's rhino and took some hull points off of my allies chimeras. Celestine killed off 1 SM, the other one kept her in combat. The dom's on foot were still engaged with the immobilized predator, so they blew it back to whatever heretical planet it was from. (about time!)
Our turn 3. Reserves... No
So we decided to be aggresive at this stage because its just more fun that way. I baled my BSS squad close to the Orks that came on the field last turn and opened fire with the 2 flamers and the pile of double tapping bolters. Cut down a swath of Orks, but still over 10 so they didn't care. Celestine killed off the remaining SM and moved toward the center of the board (where the BSS/Ork walk-ons and the remaining SM heavy weapon was). The Dom's who just took out the predator attempted to charge the battlewagon, that was loaded with orks. In retrospect this was probably a bad idea in a kill points game, but whatever. Needless to say, they died in a hail of ork-overwatch. Ah well, it would have been nice to melta the big machine. The other Dom squad (now on foot thanks to the nearby dakka-jets) shot at one of the jets taking off 2 hull points, but failing to kill it off.
Their turn 3.
WAAHHHHH was called! The walk-on orks charged the sisters along with the Orks in the battlewagon (assault vehicle). The battlewagon Orks failed their charge, but took some overwatch (which was the point of charging them anyway). Hand to hand saw some orks and a bunch from the BSS die, but the BSS held. One of the dakka-jets also took out my last BSS rhinos causing them to jump clear. No other significant damage
Our turn 4. Flak tank finally shows up
Celestine was free to help out again so she flew across the field in range to charge either the last SM heavy weapon squad, or assist the BSS/Ork fight. The unengaged BSS squad ran over to the whirlwind and lobed a grenade at it.... blowing it to hell. The guard plasma down the remaining heavy weapon SM and Celestine charges into the Ork/BSS fight. The Flak tank removes the wounded dakka jet from the field.
Their turn 5.
Wasn't much to be done on this turn, but the remaining dakka-jet took out the remaining BSS rhino and the Orks in hand to hand took out the BSS squad. Celestine killed more orks, but couldn't wipe the unit.
The game ended and we ended up winning by a single point. Good match! I sorta wonder if the ork player would have been on the field at turn 1 if it would have change the game slightly. The SM's were taking a LOT of fire. Ah well, guess we'll never know. I was very happy for this perticular game as it was easy going and frankly a fun game. Always fun to get opponents who get into the characters of their armies (they were shouting WAAAHHH! and we were denouncing the SM's and heritics the entire battle)
Round 3
Spoiler:
So, on to the final game.
This one was an interesting one. The game was the d3+2 strategic points (we had 4) and the long field. Our opponents were bloodangels and their tau allies. The armies were something like this
Blood angels:
Mepheston
5 S.Guard with assorted hand to hand weapons
2 small units of melta-armed jump-pack assult marines
Tau:
Commander in some jumping suit that gave it a 2+/4++, feel no pain and 4 wounds. It was armed with a pile of high strength firepower.
2 largeish units (15?) of firewarriors with a shield drone each
A railgun tank wayyyyyyyy in the back of the field
Some type of smaller suit with lots of tank busting firepower
So there were 2 strat points in the back of our field and 2 in the back of theirs. We decided to take out the blood angels before the tau by hanging out in the back of the field and letting them come to us. We decided with this type of field outflanking could give a high yield so we did that with the dom’s and the chemical tank. We ended up setting up/going first and no initiative was not stolen this time.
Our turn 1
Some shifting but nothing else. We weren’t in range and it was night anyway. Without exorcists/russes it really limits the range of our force.
Their turn 1
Everything pretty much moves towards us. The Railgun fires a mighty shot at the flak tank and blows it sky high. (oh well, guess that happens from time to time). First blood for them. Some other shooting but nothing of note
Our turn 2.
The sisters know how to read a watch and have a good idea about battleplans. It is CLEAR that guard do not have these abilities. As such, both dominion squads enter the battlefield and the chemical tank has breakfast off-field.
I sent one of the dom squads after the railgun tank and the other one after his loner commander. I decided that defense sucks so I moved and jumped out of the rhino with the BSS closest to the tau commander. I figured it would take a decent amount of small arms to kill that commander so double-tapping may be useful. The rest of the combined force kinda milled around in the back getting ready to fire off multi-lasers and plasma at the oncoming Seg-guard and Mephiston. Shooting saw the end of the railgun tank and the tau commander through the rhinos, the dom-melta and the BSS (along with some multi-laser action) got reduced to a single wound left. Mephiston took a wound and the Seg guard lost 3 of their unit mostly to plasma-vets.
Their turn 2.
The assult troops decided to land this round (so it was only the guard that can’t tell time). The droped down and immediately blew Creed’s chimera to pieces. Lucky for us, a bunch of those pieces shreaded some assult marines. I believe there were only 3 left in that unit after that. The other assult unit droped and didn’t do anything important. Mephiston and his guard came closer and fired on Celestine, killing her outright. The dominion squads saw some hurt as one fire warrior unit opened on the rhino holding the dom’s closest to the tau commander and HP-killing it. The other fire warrior opened up on the 2nd dom unit and reduced them to a melta and the superior. We got lucky as the tau commander failed to kill off the BSS rhino near to it. I’m pretty sure he rolled nothing but 1’s for all of his missles/lasers/whatever the heck his heritical race designes. It just goes to show how xenos weapons will always fail to the faithful!
Our turn 3.
Guess who didn’t show up? That’s right, the chemical tank… Seriously those guard reserves have some significant problems waking up in the morning.
Anyway
The dom squad in the backfield re-mounted in their rhino and inched across the back of the field. I didn’t have much to do with them at this point, but I figured I probably aught to use them for something. The other dom squad got in melta range of the tau commander and with the emperor on their side, reduced the tau commander to a pile of slag with some tasty broiled fish inside. Meanwhile the BSS got within rapid fire/flamer range of the fire warrior unit in the open field. They ended up with 3 commie-space-fish left in that squad. The other side of the field saw the 2nd BSS squad dismount to burn/bolter down the assault squad that landed near our objective. There were 2 assault marines left after they unleashed the emperors fury. The Guard took out what remained of the other assault squad (the one that took huge damage from Creed’s blown up chimera). Meanwhile the plasma vets ripped through the S.guard decimating the unit. Celestine decided to stand up this round and charge Mephiston. I figured she could tie him up for a bit and keep him away from the squishies in our backfield. He took a wound from Celestine’s sword, but they remained locked in an epic duel.
Their turn 3
The tau decided that the dom squad in the back of the field were not best for the greater good so the remaining suit fired on it removing it from the game. The Dom’s inside got pretty much every firewarrior shot in range (some doubletapping). Didn’t go well for them… The remaining 3 firewarriors from the other unit charged the BSS empty rhino and failed to haywire it to death. The 2 assault marines charged the BSS and one succeeded… the other one was cooked by overwatch. Over the next couple of turns the marine killed off a couple from the BSS, but eventually he would succumb to the sisters. Celestine and Mephiston continued their dance with no clear winner.
Our turn 4.
So the chemical tank finally decided to rev up the engines and get on the field. Of course, it was the WRONG SIDE OF THE FIELD!!! Yea, that crew will be purged after the battle. Anyway, at this stage the targets were becoming more sparse. I re-mounted my rhino with the squad that took out most of the firewarriors and headed towards the enemy’s strat points. The guard cleaned up the remaining firewarriors on that side of the field. The chemical tank came in and they went towards the other firewarriors. Not much else happened this round. Celestine and Mephiston continued their immortal dance
Their turn 4.
The fire warriors ran towards the objectives, the suit fired at the chemical tank but missed. Celestine saw an opening and stabbed Mephiston in the heart, but he had a redundant one so kept on fighting.
Our turn 5.
Time for the chemical tank to finally shine. It rolled up to the remaining firewarriors and killed off all but 4, who were dispatched by the nearby sisters. The remaining dom squad (yep, it still exists… just kinda slow) melta’s the suit tau. Instant AP1 dead is nice against those things. Celestine starts to think that Mephiston is kinda cute, in a sparkly sort of way, so she removes an ear as a souvenir. He ended up taking 4 or 5 wounds during the game, but never went down.
At this stage the game was done and we had won. It was a fun game and very entertaining.
Overall it was a fun tourney. Me and my ally ended up actually winning overall. The scores were based on painting/lists/sportsmanship so it worked out for that. Frankly that was a nice bonus. The first game was kinda a dud and I wish we would have been able to give them more of a challenge, but bad matchups happen. The other 2 games were awesome. I’m not sure if I’ve ever used the phrase ‘filthy Xenos’ or the word ‘heretic’ more often.
It was entertaining how the girls took the brunt of the work/firepower. We pretty much decided that the Guard would be good reserves and it worked out pretty well. Guard and sisters are good allies, was a fun day of delivering the emperors judgment. After the fight the sisters and Creed cleansed the guard that remained because they clearly witnessed far too many heretics and xenos and needed to be purged.
yea, it was rough to pay the BSS tax, but they did prove useful during this tourney and it'll be MUCH better soon with 5 girl squads. I really missed the Exorcist (especially against all the MC's and vehicles in game 1, but we really had to go either heavy support vehicles or fast scout type things. I like the fast/mobility route better than a more stagnant gunline so I'm glad we decided on that one.
The one good thing about 10 girl BSS squads is that they dish out a decent amount of firepower if your close to your target. only other good thing I guess is that they're scoring.
The problem with BSS is that in order to dish out their firepower, they have to be disembarked and within 12". 10 girls within 12" of the enemy and out of a transport are dead meat.
I generally prefer to be aggressive because I believe its in character. Course that doesn't mean that I don't follow the adage of 'she who bails, fails' Jumping out can sometimes be the dumbest thing you can do.
Sister: Whats that thing in the sky?
Sister Superior: Its a Helldrake, now everyone out
I just posted all the changes I could find in the news and rumors. Here's a quick cut and paste in spoilers
Spoiler:
Warlord Traits 1) Fear 2) 5+ Shield of Faith for Warlord's Unit 3) Reroll DTW 4) Rage 5) 12" Warlord Leadership bubble for Act of Faith or War Hymns 6) Stubborn
Army Special Rules: Acts of Faith are Leadership Test now. All units with Shield of Faith have Adamantium Will If a Martyrdom unit dies, all units with Act of Faith special rule pass all Leadership tests until end of your next turn.
No mention of faith points. You can just do your act for a leadership test. Only one AoF per unit per phase. You can only use AoF if all models have AoF or War Hymns. Holy crap, all acts of faith are once per game. That's a nerf.
Canoness AOF is Hatred in either Assault Phase. AoF not limited to your turn.
Command Squad gets Fleet, Crusader, MTC AOF.
Priests can use War Hymns at beginning of Sub Phase for one effect - Priest and unit Reroll all failed armor and invul until end of phase - Smash special rule for priest - Priest and unit gets reroll to wound
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy gak, priests are good?
DCA and Crusaders are limited to Swords now.
Celestians get Furious Charge and is only on Friendly assault phase.
Battle Sisters get Preferred Enemy AOF, no regroup version.
Repentia get 3+ FNP for either player's assault phase.
Dominions get Ignores Cover AOF, no more twin link. Still have scout.
Retributors keep rending. One use only. NERF.
Seraphim reroll invuls still, but not faith checks. Get Shred in Shooting Phase AOF
PEs are still walkers.
Searchlights are stock on Rhinos and Still have Shield of Faith
Uriah gives out a 5+ to his unit and once per game his unit can reuse an AoF. Auto pass.
All models within 12" of Uriah have Fearless and Counter-attack.
Celestine is one use only for standing up. Use her leadership for all AOF within 12". She has H&R. Her weapon is now S5 AP3, Master Crafted.
Neural Whips are S User, AP3, and get Shred against units with Ld 8 or less. Blessed standard is 12" reroll morale fear and pinning.
Laud hailer is reroll AoF rolls within 12"
Simulacrum allows 2 AOF for one unit. One per phase. If you lose the Simulacrum from casualties, no more AOF for the rest of the battle.
Litanies of Faith. Bearer and unit automatically pass Aof or War Hymns.
Cloak of StA - Reroll all failed Armour and SoF invuls Mantle of Ophelia - Eternal Warrior
Blade of Admonition - S+2 AP3, Master Crafter Book of St Lucius - All friendly within 12" auto pass Fear or Regroup Sacred Banner of the order - All friendly within 12" have +1 att and reroll failed morale, fear and pinning Mace of Valaan - S+2 AP4, Melee, Chaos-Bane, Concussive, Master Crafter, Gets fleshbane and armourbane when wielder is within 6" of one or more models wityh the Daemon Special Rule
Eviscerator is on Melee list for 30. Power weapon for 15 Inferno Pistol on Ranged Weapon but is canoness only. Combis are still 10 PP are still 15 Specials are 5 for Storm, 5 for Flamer, 10 for melta Heavies are Bolter 10, Flamer 10, MM 10 Vehicles - SB 5, Dozer 5, EA 10, HK 10, Laud 10
Relics BOSL - 5!!! Litanies - 15 Cloak - 20 Mace - 25 (Priest only) Mantle - 25 Blade of A - 30 (canoness only, replaces one weapon)
Celestine 20 point increase Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
Celestine 20 point increase Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
SCS - 50 point drop! Hospitaller costs 10, Dialogous costs 5. Dialogous can take relics. Can take standards for 15/40. Simulacrum 10. Any Celestian can take Melee, Ranged, Special or Heavy!!!
BSS - Sups can take Melee so Eviscerators are back. 30 points.
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Immo 60 points. 20 point decrease from MM version!!! Free mult-melta, not fast or anything like that. No fire points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Celestians - 10 point decrease for squad, 1 decrease for each additional. 1 Special and 1 Special or heavy. Superior can take melee or ranged. Still means they have the wrong act of faith.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Repentia, 5 pt decrease for squad. 3 pts less for each additional. May take a dedicated transport.
Repentia do not have FNP naturally. but have SoF, fleet, rage, fearless.
Seraphim. 5 pts decrease for base squad. Hand flamers 10 point decrease per. Inferno pistols same. Does not come with superior. Sup costs 10 points. Sup can only buy chainsword, power sword, or plasma pistol.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Exorcist, 10 point decrease. 13/11/10, 3 HP, Free Searchlight and Smoke
Penitent Engine, 5 point decrease per. 3 attacks, no more D6+1. Rage, SoF, Unstoppable (ignore shaken and stunned). Still Open Topped.
Rets. 5 Point decrease. 10 pts for Vet. Simulacrum for 10. four get heavies. So more expensive by 25 for 4 HB in one squad.
5 Rets - 60 Simulacrum - 10 4 HB - 40 Vet - 10 120 Yuck. They got worse for 2 AOF per game.
3 Missions: Recover the Relics (check objectives for holy relics to get bonus VP), Defend the Shrine (defend a center thing that gives all units with AOF reroll invuls and +1 leadership), Purge the Arch Heretic (Kill Points with bonus for enemy warlord)
Purge Squadron
3-6 Immolators, 3-6 squads of Retributors
- All Ret squads must have 4 heavy weapons and must contain at least one heavy flamer, heavy bolter and multi-melta
Special rules:
SPECIAL RULES:
Relentless
Fire and Faith:
If this formation combines their shooting attacks (see Wall of Fire below) and even a single unit makes a successful Divine Guidance Act of Faith roll, the combined shooting attack’s profile gains the Rending special rule.
Wall of Fire:
Six or more units in the formation can combine their shooting attacks into a single attack using one of the profiles below. All of the firing units must have at least one model that is in range and has line of sight to the target.
Bolter Storm - 36" range, S5 AP4, Heavy 1, Apocalyptic Blast
Flamer Storm - Hellstorm template, S5 AP4, Heavy 1 Torrent
Melta Storm - 24" S8 AP1, Heavy 1, Melta, Large Blast
Holy Trinity - 24", S6 AP3, Heavy 1, Melta, Ignores Cover, Massive Blast
Repentant Host
3+ units of Repentia (must be 10 models) 3+ Penitent Engines
SPECIAL RULES:
Rampage, It Will Not Die
Only In Death Does Duty End: All models in this formation re-roll failed Feel No Pain rolls.
Angelic Host
Saint Celestine, 2-5 Seraphim squads (must be 10 models)
SPECIAL RULES:
Fearless
Victory Or Martyrdom: All models in this formation re-roll failed invulnerable saving throws.
Winged Deliverance: If the unit is held in Strategic Reserve, they can Deep Strike at the start of any friendly turn. All weapons in the formation have the Shred special rule on the turn they Deep Strike.
oh wow.... sisters took another punch to the throat....
the only real bonus i see there is exorcists are now 125 instead of 135.... thats... useful? i guess... and if the priests reroll armor thing is not one use.. that could be good also
frgsinwntr wrote: oh wow.... sisters took another punch to the throat....
the only real bonus i see there is exorcists are now 125 instead of 135.... thats... useful? i guess... and if the priests reroll armor thing is not one use.. that could be good also
Are you joking? Did you read what I posted? It is basically almost all buffs except for Celestine. Even the AoF thing is mitigated by the way that they work now. Sisters just got a lot better.
I was very concerned about the AoF change at first, but I've given it some thought and it doesn't change all that much. With the Faith Points gone, you are free to be more tactical with their use. It does negatively affect units that really rely on them (namely Rets, Doms and Seraphim) but with the old Faith Points system, you were pretty much forced to budget for it anyway. Plus the abundance of Simulacrums means that they will become a major staple in Ret and Dom squads.
Stock in Priests is way up. As is the damage potential of a Sororitas Command squad in melee, as you can really go nuts with Eviscerators and power weapons. Combined with a priest, hospitalier and Cannoness with the improved SoF trait, you have something that is downright scary, if costly in terms of points.
pretre wrote: I would get Jacobus in there. He is just too good on the big blob. Fearless 12" bubble and counter attack.
I know you want the Canoness but she is still outclassed.
On a tactical level, I agree with you there. But at the same time, I'd like to break the mold a little bit with characters, as I've kinda hit a point of burnout on the Celestine/Jacobus combo. And luckily now the Canoness is not as completely outclassed now, being able to support her squad a little more, and deal with anything big and scary with her axe like a proper Canoness should. So I totally recognize that Jacobus is the superior tactical choice, but I'm weakening my tactics a little bit for the sake of something that is a little more me. I assume come tournament time, that'll change, but for the time being...
pretre wrote: I kinda want to see more simulacrums, but I'm still playing with lists.
Yeah, more Sims would be nice (would really like if Seraphim could have them, alas alas) but I think if I can make room for them, I'd probably put 2 sims in the 20-girl blobs before the Immo squads.
I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It seems like an overall improvement, with some rather confusing negatives (Kyrinov is gone for example?).
To me, it's taken out all the uncertain elements, while you only get Faith 1-3 times per unit, per game, when you want it, it's there rather than hoping for enough Faith points.
Things are set values to work around now.
And personally, the units I use as my core (Repentia, Penitent Engines, Min sized BSS squads) just got cheaper, and I never used their Acts of Faith much anyway.
With 5 girl BSS squads, I can now affod to max out my Repentia and PEs at 1500pts, and maybe even mech up a bit.
For my army, it's a pretty big boost.
For the force as a whole, it seems like two to three steps forward, one step back, so we're still better off overall.
Plus I hear tell the bonus content and fluff is pretty amazing.
Indeed - perhaps the only thing thats a blow is that Celestine only gets up once - but its eems to have given us lots of good stuff and I think alot of people are going to scream about how many melta and other special weapons we can field...........they might just wish we had been squatted
Ovion wrote: And personally, the units I use as my core (Repentia, Penitent Engines, Min sized BSS squads) just got cheaper, and I never used their Acts of Faith much anyway.
With 5 girl BSS squads, I can now affod to max out my Repentia and PEs at 1500pts, and maybe even mech up a bit.
Don't get too excited... PE's got a fair bit worse. They've gone from D6+1 attacks to just a standard 3 attacks, no longer get bonus attacks for killing stuff, and they've lost the ability to completely ignore Shaken/Stunned (they now lose hull points).
Poor Repentia lost their FNP so the only save they get is their 6+ Shield of Faith.
At first I was excited for the new Similacrums, but I do not see the point for most units outside of larger BSS squads.
Uriah + a couple priests with eviscerators and Litanies in a guard blob is stupid. Just insane if you put Celestine there too for Hit and Run and the rerollable 2+ armor soak.
I seriously need to get some games in, but on paper Sisters look SO good against the current meta. 8 ignores cover scouting meltaguns will sadden a lot of bike players, riptides, and wave serpent spammers. Condemnor boltguns on BSS superiors will ruin the psyker deathstars flying around... and I cannot wait to see someone try and shift a priest-boosted guard blob.
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It doesn't say SImulacrum can't be taken by a melta sister does it?
The Penitents is fine.
That's still 3+1 for 2 weapons, +2 on the charge for Rage.
6 each isn't exactly shabby.
Repentia losing their Feel No Pain is the first truly bad thing I've seen, and it brings into question their durability, which was tenuous before.
That 6+, 5++ was a big part of letting them make it to combat, and I'll have to see if they're durable enough to get enough bases in contact to blend a unit anymore.
Though on the plus side, I can fit a HQ, 2BSS, 3 full squads of Repentia and 3 full squads of Penitent Engines in to 1500pts now.
pretre wrote: 20 girls with a 25 point priest are now fearless and in combat can reroll failed saves. lol
Can they reroll saves every round?
Can you put a canonness with a 2+ save up front to tank every hit?
With Litanies of Faith in the unit yes, every round without a LD check. Cannoness cannot get a 2+ save, but Celestine has one (and now has Hit and Run on her own!)
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It doesn't say SImulacrum can't be taken by a melta sister does it?
I think in most cases the Simulacrum and the weapons are exclusive. Every entry I see in a quick scan says "One can take a Sim, One OTHER can take..." and so on.
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It doesn't say SImulacrum can't be taken by a melta sister does it?
It doesn't say so exactly, but it seems implied.
"One Dominion may take a Simulacrum Imperialis"
"Four other Dominions may take..."
Use of the word "other" seems like a pretty good indicator that the Sister with the Simulacrum is not carrying a meltagun. They also had that in the old WDFAQ, not that that counts for much.
Another thing to note, is that the Priest can take a special weapon of his own, so that might boost the argument for the Priest.
Ovion wrote: The Penitents is fine.
That's still 3+1 for 2 weapons, +2 on the charge for Rage.
6 each isn't exactly shabby.
Repentia losing their Feel No Pain is the first truly bad thing I've seen, and it brings into question their durability, which was tenuous before.
That 6+, 5++ was a big part of letting them make it to combat, and I'll have to see if they're durable enough to get enough bases in contact to blend a unit anymore.
Though on the plus side, I can fit a HQ, 2BSS, 3 full squads of Repentia and 3 full squads of Penitent Engines in to 1500pts now.
So guys, Laud Hailers, 10 points to re-roll your act of faith. Worth it on Immolators for our dominion squads? Maybe even on the Exorcists to re-roll out faiths on the units in the back field.
Madcat87 wrote: So guys, Laud Hailers, 10 points to re-roll your act of faith. Worth it on Immolators for our dominion squads? Maybe even on the Exorcists to re-roll out faiths on the units in the back field.
For a pure Sisters force, you definitely want a handful on vehicles for coverage. Given you only get one chance to use the AOF and are generally going to want to line a few up to hammer something in the same phase, the reroll is definitely worth it.
Acts of Faith only work when in units that are entirely comprised of units with the rule (so Celestine can NOT stand back up if she is in a platoon).
However, Hymns do not share the same wording so as far as I can tell they work in IG units.
The hymns allow you to choose one of the following EACH fight subphase (your turn and your opponents) if you pass a LD check:
The unit can reroll armor saves
The priest gains the Smash special rule
The unit can reroll attempts to wound
Priests (Jacobus) and IG definitely got better.
Furthermore I see no reason they could not stack if you have multiple priests... so Jacobus and 2 priests (one with Litanies) means you will have a unit that rerolls its saves, rerolls its wounds, rerolls hits on the charge (hatred), has counterattack (Jacobus), is fearless, and Jacobus will have Smash (S3 AP2 hits, or S6 AP2 if he needs to smash something)
I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
meh_ wrote:If i remember correctly, pretre wrote that Jacobus doesn't give +1 A anymore. What about FNP and re-roll on the charge?
Both of those are gone, he now just has Zealot, and provides a 12" fearless and counterattack bubble. He does things with Acts of Faith, but that doesn't impact Guard blobs.
war wrote:I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
Only 1/6th of the missions care about KPs, and if you stick them in a blob of Sisters or Guard they are much harder to single out. If someone has dedicated the firepower to kill 20 sisters or 30+ guardsmen to kill the priest and get the killpoint you should either be dominating the rest of the board, or you are in a ton of trouble anyways and the extra KP probably doesn't matter. Given the ease with which we put KPs on the table with the change to 5 girl BSSs, and the cost reduction in Immolators... an extra priest or two is just a drop in the bucket in my opinion.
pretre wrote: I just posted all the changes I could find in the news and rumors. Here's a quick cut and paste in spoilers
Spoiler:
Warlord Traits
1) Fear
2) 5+ Shield of Faith for Warlord's Unit
3) Reroll DTW
4) Rage
5) 12" Warlord Leadership bubble for Act of Faith or War Hymns
6) Stubborn
Army Special Rules:
Acts of Faith are Leadership Test now.
All units with Shield of Faith have Adamantium Will
If a Martyrdom unit dies, all units with Act of Faith special rule pass all Leadership tests until end of your next turn.
No mention of faith points. You can just do your act for a leadership test.
Only one AoF per unit per phase. You can only use AoF if all models have AoF or War Hymns.
Holy crap, all acts of faith are once per game. That's a nerf.
Canoness AOF is Hatred in either Assault Phase.
AoF not limited to your turn.
Command Squad gets Fleet, Crusader, MTC AOF.
Priests can use War Hymns at beginning of Sub Phase for one effect
- Priest and unit Reroll all failed armor and invul until end of phase
- Smash special rule for priest
- Priest and unit gets reroll to wound
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Holy gak, priests are good?
DCA and Crusaders are limited to Swords now.
Celestians get Furious Charge and is only on Friendly assault phase.
Battle Sisters get Preferred Enemy AOF, no regroup version.
Repentia get 3+ FNP for either player's assault phase.
Dominions get Ignores Cover AOF, no more twin link. Still have scout.
Retributors keep rending. One use only. NERF.
Seraphim reroll invuls still, but not faith checks. Get Shred in Shooting Phase AOF
PEs are still walkers.
Searchlights are stock on Rhinos and Still have Shield of Faith
Uriah gives out a 5+ to his unit and once per game his unit can reuse an AoF. Auto pass.
All models within 12" of Uriah have Fearless and Counter-attack.
Celestine is one use only for standing up. Use her leadership for all AOF within 12". She has H&R. Her weapon is now S5 AP3, Master Crafted.
Neural Whips are S User, AP3, and get Shred against units with Ld 8 or less.
Blessed standard is 12" reroll morale fear and pinning.
Laud hailer is reroll AoF rolls within 12"
Simulacrum allows 2 AOF for one unit. One per phase. If you lose the Simulacrum from casualties, no more AOF for the rest of the battle.
Litanies of Faith. Bearer and unit automatically pass Aof or War Hymns.
Cloak of StA - Reroll all failed Armour and SoF invuls
Mantle of Ophelia - Eternal Warrior
Blade of Admonition - S+2 AP3, Master Crafter
Book of St Lucius - All friendly within 12" auto pass Fear or Regroup
Sacred Banner of the order - All friendly within 12" have +1 att and reroll failed morale, fear and pinning
Mace of Valaan - S+2 AP4, Melee, Chaos-Bane, Concussive, Master Crafter, Gets fleshbane and armourbane when wielder is within 6" of one or more models wityh the Daemon Special Rule
Eviscerator is on Melee list for 30. Power weapon for 15
Inferno Pistol on Ranged Weapon but is canoness only.
Combis are still 10
PP are still 15
Specials are 5 for Storm, 5 for Flamer, 10 for melta
Heavies are Bolter 10, Flamer 10, MM 10
Vehicles - SB 5, Dozer 5, EA 10, HK 10, Laud 10
Relics
BOSL - 5!!!
Litanies - 15
Cloak - 20
Mace - 25 (Priest only)
Mantle - 25
Blade of A - 30 (canoness only, replaces one weapon)
Celestine 20 point increase
Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
Celestine 20 point increase
Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
SCS - 50 point drop! Hospitaller costs 10, Dialogous costs 5. Dialogous can take relics. Can take standards for 15/40. Simulacrum 10. Any Celestian can take Melee, Ranged, Special or Heavy!!!
BSS - Sups can take Melee so Eviscerators are back. 30 points.
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Immo 60 points. 20 point decrease from MM version!!! Free mult-melta, not fast or anything like that. No fire points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Celestians - 10 point decrease for squad, 1 decrease for each additional. 1 Special and 1 Special or heavy. Superior can take melee or ranged. Still means they have the wrong act of faith.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Repentia, 5 pt decrease for squad. 3 pts less for each additional. May take a dedicated transport.
Repentia do not have FNP naturally. but have SoF, fleet, rage, fearless.
Seraphim. 5 pts decrease for base squad. Hand flamers 10 point decrease per. Inferno pistols same. Does not come with superior. Sup costs 10 points. Sup can only buy chainsword, power sword, or plasma pistol.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Exorcist, 10 point decrease. 13/11/10, 3 HP, Free Searchlight and Smoke
Penitent Engine, 5 point decrease per. 3 attacks, no more D6+1. Rage, SoF, Unstoppable (ignore shaken and stunned). Still Open Topped.
Rets. 5 Point decrease. 10 pts for Vet. Simulacrum for 10. four get heavies. So more expensive by 25 for 4 HB in one squad.
5 Rets - 60
Simulacrum - 10
4 HB - 40
Vet - 10
120 Yuck. They got worse for 2 AOF per game.
3 Missions: Recover the Relics (check objectives for holy relics to get bonus VP), Defend the Shrine (defend a center thing that gives all units with AOF reroll invuls and +1 leadership), Purge the Arch Heretic (Kill Points with bonus for enemy warlord)
no petre... i'm not crazy... I really think they got weaker.
but... being a good sport it looks to me like this is what I'd try...
HQ Uriah
Troops
20 sisters with 2 melta guns and priest
20 sisters with 2 melta guns and priest
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
Heavy
exorcist
exorcist
exorcist
And sadly i don't have the codex yet so i can't point this out... just going by rumors of it...
Just read the post above mine... add combi condemnor bolt guns everywhere to this list... that alone COULD make it worth it... hurting both eldar and deamons alike
war wrote:I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
Only 1/6th of the missions care about KPs, and if you stick them in a blob of Sisters or Guard they are much harder to single out. If someone has dedicated the firepower to kill 20 sisters or 30+ guardsmen to kill the priest and get the killpoint you should either be dominating the rest of the board, or you are in a ton of trouble anyways and the extra KP probably doesn't matter. Given the ease with which we put KPs on the table with the change to 5 girl BSSs, and the cost reduction in Immolators... an extra priest or two is just a drop in the bucket in my opinion.
Very true, I'm leaning towards an MSU army with just a silly amount of melta and flame weapons. Bubble-wrapping my Exorcists with priest enforced BSS or allied guardsmen may prove useful.
I believe MSUSoB armies are going to be incredible.
4-5 units of troops choices with as many flamers and Heavy Flamers as you can pack in, with a Priest and Combi Flamer in a TLMM Immolator looks solid.
Not sure if a 5th or 6th troops choice will be needed as Sisters are damned useless at taking objectives, but they have been beefed up considerably at dmg dealing.
Just downloaded the codex. Very happy! Allied Guard with Priest will be great! Fearlessness for cheap! Meltaguns, Multi-meltas, and heavy flamers for the same price is awesome. I love the possibilities that this codex gives. Wheeee!
My first crack at updating a WD List to use the new rules:
HQ St Celestine - 135
4x Priests - 125
TROOPS
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
FAST
Seraphim, 10 Women, 2x Hand Flamers, VSS - 180
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Melta, Simulacrum, VSS, MM Immo - 188
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Melta, Simulacrum, VSS, MM Immo - 188
HEAVY
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
TOTAL: 1746
I think being able to make all your scoring units Fearless is huge. A cool thing about the new pricing for Immolators is that your MM Immo now costs exactly the same as 5 more Sisters, so you can make an even trade without having to recalculate the points. I might trade out the Immos in two of the BSSs just to get more bodies on the table.
tiber55 wrote: can anyone please explain exactly what the wording is on the new anti psyker gun.
How does it allocate the perils if it hits.
We don't know.. the unit takes a perils of warp.. units don't have wounds or anything in themselves.. only the models in them do. We don't have any rules on how to allocate perils, which is why similar mechanics (Mindstrike missiles) are careful to specify that specific models take the perils (i.e. the models under the blast of the mindstrike missile).
tiber55 wrote: can anyone please explain exactly what the wording is on the new anti psyker gun.
How does it allocate the perils if it hits.
We don't know.. the unit takes a perils of warp.. units don't have wounds or anything in themselves.. only the models in them do. We don't have any rules on how to allocate perils, which is why similar mechanics (Mindstrike missiles) are careful to specify that specific models take the perils (i.e. the models under the blast of the mindstrike missile).
Indeed, however, if one were to replace "unit" in that sentence for "model" it would actually work and make sense. Sadly it does not say model.
just noted one error/inconsistency between the iBook and the ePub file: Seraphim superior in iBook can take power weapon, and in ePub can only take Power sword. Minor difference but vaguely important
scrunty wrote: just noted one error/inconsistency between the iBook and the ePub file: Seraphim superior in iBook can take power weapon, and in ePub can only take Power sword. Minor difference but vaguely important
Very important... My power lance Seraphim Superior is looking at me fearfully!
1755 pts, beta version. I guess I will swap seraphim for a Vendetta or Avenger Strike Fighter. Others changes will probably follow regarding wargear options. Also, I may add one naked Priest to use both War Hymns. SCS Celestians may opt to take Condemnor boltguns.
My fire warriors approve of the fact flamer dominos are no longer valuable, and that HB rets will likely see a drop, or at least wont be dirt cheap.
My hammerheads do not approve of the fact they got so good with meltas
My fire warriors regret their temporary relief when they see that rets now pack heavy flamers and ride flame tanks like bosses.
Looks like a nerf at a glance, but deeper look reveals that except the fact they still go no proper AA, most things got pretty damn good, with the exception of saint and HB rets who got much needed nerf, and repentia turned quite a bit more squishy.
New faith also looks like a nerf at first, until you realize that you dont need them all too often, and when you need them you NEED them.
Free army-wide AW is also a nice hidden boost. "oh, you planned to psyker me? NOT TODAY"
This version is healthy for the army. no longer punishing you for MSU on one hand, yet a few things that make you want to take huge squads, some units work very will with quite a few useful gun options (rets actually make proper use of all 3 guns nowdays, too bad dominos turned into melta-only useful)
There are alot of possible setups now, and I think it will be more varied then old WD "codex", plus the traits and relics are quite diverse and pretty good (and actually balanced to each other, unlike farsights "1 insane, 1 decent, 4 trash" traits)
Just give them some damn AA unit GW, comon. you dropped the ball hard there.
And dont bother giving your dominos the extra act of faith, there is no way in hell people will let them live to fire again XD
(BTW, if you fail the test, does it waste your AoF, or can you try again next time?)
(and does anyone get fixed trait?)
Very happy overall. Some models (HBs) will be shelved for a while, and it's looking like a triple exorcists edition, but overall I'm very please.
I can't decided how how to run Doms, at a glance it clearly should be 4 meltas in a mm imoo and a simulacrum imp, but wait. Immos have no fire points so you're gonna have to jump out to shoot the 4 meltas, and as we all know once you get out you can be pasted qucikly, so do you need a Simulacrum is you're just gonna die?
I reckon there's a place for a simulacrum in a squad in a rhino as you can fire out the fire points once, and then hopefully again later on (probably once your rhino has gone pop?)...
Question - how badly have Retributors really been nerfed?
They still have rending, and they can use it 1-2 times.
But how often did they actually get their Act of Faith anyway?
With the random 1-6pts, and the often 50/50 odds of it working - how many times a game did it actually work?
Ovion wrote: Question - how badly have Retributors really been nerfed?
They still have rending, and they can use it 1-2 times.
But how often did they actually get their Act of Faith anyway?
With the random 1-6pts, and the often 50/50 odds of it working - how many times a game did it actually work?
It's also the points increase though. A 10 sister unit with 4 hb was running 145 before. Now with a sim you're looking at 170 or 180 (180 if you want a Vet SS to make those AoF easier to pass).
Funnily enough my Rets rarely died so I would usually get atleast 3 rounds where I passed my act, but even when you pass the act you're still only rending on a 6...so now you only get it twice at the most and from that you'll get how many rending shots? And it's costing you more?
Ovion wrote: Question - how badly have Retributors really been nerfed?
They still have rending, and they can use it 1-2 times.
But how often did they actually get their Act of Faith anyway?
With the random 1-6pts, and the often 50/50 odds of it working - how many times a game did it actually work?
To be quite honest I never used AoF myself, I follow the nicety of rolling for faith points but never really used them.
If they worked they worked, but usually they didn't. I didn't bother with it, which seems like a waste of a potential benefit but it was so unreliable I personally felt like it wasn't worth my time, but I know it probably would have been better to have at least tried sometimes.(at least on the dom's anyway)
I just downloaded my copy, I have not read it yet but it sounds like at least we'll get a guaranteed chance of actually using our AoF when we actually need it instead of it being a crapshoot every turn.
I can't decided how how to run Doms, at a glance it clearly should be 4 meltas in a mm imoo and a simulacrum imp, but wait. Immos have no fire points so you're gonna have to jump out to shoot the 4 meltas, and as we all know once you get out you can be pasted qucikly, so do you need a Simulacrum is you're just gonna die?
I reckon there's a place for a simulacrum in a squad in a rhino as you can fire out the fire points once, and then hopefully again later on (probably once your rhino has gone pop?)...
I am thinking a Laud Hailer on their Immolator - it gives the re-roll for AOF rather than the Simularcums extra one as we all know you likely won't get a second round of shotting ?
Hm. So, 6 squads of 6 (or 5, just put hte last sister in as an ablative wound ), all in immolators for troops slots-- think it can work?
Then add in celestians, dominions/seraphim, and a heavily equipped canoness with command squad (or two command squads if it's possible), all in immolators, plus three exorcists...
Melissia wrote: Hm. So, 6 squads of 6 (or 5, just put hte last sister in as an ablative wound ), all in immolators for troops slots-- think it can work?
Sounds like fun for one player How many poiints is that?
Melissia wrote: Hm. So, 6 squads of 6 (or 5, just put hte last sister in as an ablative wound ), all in immolators for troops slots-- think it can work?
Definitely, if that's how you want to do it.
I think that's the briliance of this new list. Viable builds: Immo spam? Check. Big squads with priests? Check Mixed Mech? Check Allied guard shenanigans? Check AV13 spam with Forgeworld? Check
Plenty of variety.
Heck, you even get more options for HQs, no more auto-include... Celestine? Still good as an area buffer and challenge soaker. Jacobus? Crazy buffer Canoness? Great buffer, great tank. Even better than celestine for tanking and has great buffs. Command Squad? Great buffer and good utility. Awesome with big blob army. Priests? Holy crap.
People wanted variety and I think they got it. Even the easy bake oven is back.
Add priests as necessary (probably to the Celestians and a couple of the BSS, or celestians and dominions if you are facing lots of vehicles with Jink).
That's a fair point. Could probably drop a few of the BSS and a celestian squad to save points (maybe even dropping an exorcist, with this many dominion squads), for a 2k sized game...
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope the Army Builder guys are going to do an update for htis in a month or so, will help me play around with it more easily
Unlike the White Dwarf codex, this one is making me like it a little more every time I read about it.
This sucks to be honest. This book was short, sweet, and to the point and now I would need a small fortune to build it. GW really could have made solid money on this book with plastics. Lots of flavor and even bad things look fun... Rage Dreads with a 6++ yes please. Repentia are still bad but I like rage and FnPAoF.
tiber55 wrote: can anyone please explain exactly what the wording is on the new anti psyker gun.
How does it allocate the perils if it hits.
Units with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers, or Psychic Pilot special rules hit by [the Condemnor] suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage.
So, at least for now, the entire unit suffers Perils.
Ovion wrote: Question - how badly have Retributors really been nerfed?
They still have rending, and they can use it 1-2 times.
But how often did they actually get their Act of Faith anyway?
With the random 1-6pts, and the often 50/50 odds of it working - how many times a game did it actually work?
The answer is a bit complex actually, once you remember that there are actually non-HB options for rets.
The HB rets squad-nerfed. but they should have been as they were the single best HB platform in the game even before taking the AoF into account. and they are probably still the best platform overall, just no longer annoyingly undercosted. and honestly-using the act that one time it count with relative reliability strikes me as better then getting it more often, but randomly. I'd say its an overall loss, but they are still handy.
MM rets never needed the act, so they got a tiny bit cheaper as you don't have to take more then minimum squad with no other upgrades for them to do their thing.
HF rets got ALOT cheaper-and the ability to make the rending happen right on time is great with their point-blank shooting. I'd say they became a great addition to "template spam" AS army. (who is, along a few melta dominos, totally viable on paper.)
Their main problem, is that the pretty good piano got even cheaper. so competition is though.
tiber55 wrote: can anyone please explain exactly what the wording is on the new anti psyker gun.
How does it allocate the perils if it hits.
Units with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers, or Psychic Pilot special rules hit by [the Condemnor] suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage.
So, at least for now, the entire unit suffers Perils.
Shandara wrote:Units aren't affected by it though, individual models are. Well that's more for YMDC I guess.
I have absolutely no desire to split hairs over GW's precisely imprecise language, so by all means rile some people up in YMDC. People who run psykers, especially units of them, will want it to affect one model. People who play against said units will want it to affect the entire unit. I think that will sum up the future thread nicely
If it is errata'd back to say "models" hit then Condemnors will go back to being almost useless. For now I am more than happy to play it as "the entire unit" means "each model in the unit" and gently guide people at my FLGS away from the deathstar lists that are both rampant and absolutely boring to play against at this point.
Regarding the Canoness usefulness... Under Ecclesiarchy Relics its written: "Amodel can take one of the following." - does this mean that she can have multiple relics? If so, I think then Canoness tooled up with Cloak of St. Aspia, Mantle of Ophelia and Book of St. Lucius is pretty good (with SCS).
So I'm looking at Privateer Press stuff for a lot of this... the Daughters of the Flame will make excellent DCA, and the Thyra, Nica and Feora special characters all strike me as excellent counts as priests.
Just played my first game with the new Sisters. I didn't have my old Codex Witch Hunters models with me, so ran a pure Sisters list, which I think will end up being less viable than a mixed Sisters / Priest / Conclave list. I played against Marines and ran a list like this...
Saint Celestine
3x6 Battle Sisters w/ 2 Melta Guns, Vet, in Rhino
2x5 Dominions w/ 4 Melta Guns, Vet, in Multi-Melta Immolators
10 Seraphim w/ 2x Dual Hand Flamers, Vet w/ Power Sword (my Evisorator... What should I count it as now?)
3 Exorcists.
I played against a (blue) Imperial Fist list which, from memory, is something like this.
Master of Forge w/ Thunderfire Cannon
2x Tactical Squads (1 in Rhino)
5 Sternguard w/ Combi-Meltas in Drop Pod
Devastator Squad w/ 4 Missile Launchers
Vindicator
Allied White Scar Bike combat character (with the fancy shield, sword, combi-grav) with a squad of blikes with all the Grav Guns & Multi-Melta attack bike.
I got utterly steam rolled. I am not sure if it's because this book is weaker than my old list, or because the new Marine book is so much stronger than the old one (my first game against new Marines, believe it or not). It just seemed like there was nothing I could do to bring the game in my favour, or even kill much of anything. Nothing much learned from this game, more games required. However I am interested in trying cheap as chips Conclaves with all the Arcos.
I am thinking something like this, as soon as I can get the models.
Uriah Jacobus + naked Priest in a 20 strong Sisters squad
2 10 Strong Sisters squads in Rhinos
2 6 strong Dominion squads with 4 Meltas in Immolators
2 Priests with a 10 strong Conclave (not sure of exact setup)
3 Exorcists
Not sure how many points that is, but it's probably around about 1500-1600 points.
I'm disappointed with the new codex. It's not that it's bad, people will do well with it. It just seems to have further narrowed an already narrow selection of units.
I really don't see Rets competing with Exorcists at this point. PE are mostly a wash, but they lost a fun rule and gained nothing - and they needed a little something. Repentia got a really nasty nerf.
It doesn't really help that those are all units my current list depends on, but even beyond that, one of the things I feel we needed is a way to broaden the number of viable units. On the plus side, Celestians and Priests got a little love.
The new codex is amazing. So much stuff that's going to shake up the meta, especially the perils guns. It might not be the best pure list codex, but in combination with other dexes, this new update is incredible.
A Sister carrying a Simulacrum Imperialis -- it's in the books here and there.
Derived from the Roman Imperial rank of imaginifer -- note the extra "in" in the middle of the Latin word -- which was a standard-bearer (signifer) specifically assigned to carry the image of the semi-divine Emperor. Very appropriate.
Dervos wrote: To be quite honest I never used AoF myself, I follow the nicety of rolling for faith points but never really used them.
If they worked they worked, but usually they didn't. I didn't bother with it, which seems like a waste of a potential benefit but it was so unreliable I personally felt like it wasn't worth my time, but I know it probably would have been better to have at least tried sometimes.(at least on the dom's anyway)
What game were you playing? Faith tests were never worse than 4+, and often 3+. How is that unreliable?
Hollowman wrote: I really don't see Rets competing with Exorcists at this point. PE are mostly a wash, but they lost a fun rule and gained nothing - and they needed a little something. Repentia got a really nasty nerf.
It doesn't really help that those are all units my current list depends on, but even beyond that, one of the things I feel we needed is a way to broaden the number of viable units. On the plus side, Celestians and Priests got a little love.
Rets actually are about even, if you think about it but cost more. 2 almost guaranteed acts (Ld9 test vs 5+ or 4+, that's better than 50% for 2 times per game). Also, Rets can do easy bake oven again, which is awesome.
PE are a wash they've pretty much always sucked, so that's still true.
Repentia got a nerf to FNP (lost 5+ out of assault) but gained a dedicated transport and priests so that they can get a 3+ FNP, reroll 6+ save, reroll wounds, etc in hand to hand (where they belong). They still lack an assault vehicle which they did before, which is why no one takes them.
There are way more viable units now. Celestians? Viable. Command Squad and Canoness? Viable. Priests? Viable. Doms and Seraphim? Viable. The only non-viable units in the book now is Penitent Engines and, arguably, Repentia. And they've always been like that since 6th dropped.
Hollowman wrote: I really don't see Rets competing with Exorcists at this point. PE are mostly a wash, but they lost a fun rule and gained nothing - and they needed a little something. Repentia got a really nasty nerf.
It doesn't really help that those are all units my current list depends on, but even beyond that, one of the things I feel we needed is a way to broaden the number of viable units. On the plus side, Celestians and Priests got a little love.
Rets actually are about even, if you think about it but cost more. 2 almost guaranteed acts (Ld9 test vs 5+ or 4+, that's better than 50% for 2 times per game). Also, Rets can do easy bake oven again, which is awesome.
PE are a wash they've pretty much always sucked, so that's still true.
Repentia got a nerf to FNP (lost 5+ out of assault) but gained a dedicated transport and priests so that they can get a 3+ FNP, reroll 6+ save, reroll wounds, etc in hand to hand (where they belong). They still lack an assault vehicle which they did before, which is why no one takes them.
There are way more viable units now. Celestians? Viable. Command Squad and Canoness? Viable. Priests? Viable. Doms and Seraphim? Viable. The only non-viable units in the book now is Penitent Engines and, arguably, Repentia. And they've always been like that since 6th dropped.
Penitent Engines did, and should do, alright, so long as you take 9+ of them....
I've come to the conclusion that Priests are not a great idea for Repentia, and putting them in a not-assault-vehicle transport is also a bad plan.
Priests will lose them fleet, and only bring a benefit in CC, where they don't need a huge amount of help anyway, unless taking a Canoness to tank hits for them, which is pricey.
Taking a Transport to go with them, or in front of them to walk up behind is fine, but otherwise they'd be getting out of their Rhino/Immolator and have to stand there in murder-range for a turn with their grand total of 0 weapons, likely getting wiped out).
Debating a 2k list at this point along the lines of:
HQ: Celestine?
Elites: 3+ x10 Repentia
Troops: 4+ x5 BSS Fast Attack: Seraphim?
Heavy Support: 6x3 Penitent Engines
Pos. Immolators / Repressors to provide moving cover for the stabby units.
Feh, lost all I wrote. Awesome. First it was a double post, then I cleaned up my double post and it was reduced to a single post.
Anyway, I'm a little disappointed at the Canoness' Act of Faith. Priests get what she can do active all the time. (I read it from the change list as Hatred). Seems like Celestian's act should've been on the Canoness, so she could join up with a Priest and a Command Squad, pass out power weapons, and then get stuck in with Furious Charge and rerollable To Hit/To Wound. Canoness tanking anyone she pleases while the unit cuts into the enemy.
pretre wrote: Rets actually are about even, if you think about it but cost more. 2 almost guaranteed acts (Ld9 test vs 5+ or 4+, that's better than 50% for 2 times per game). Also, Rets can do easy bake oven again, which is awesome.
Just to set the record straight, the Command Squad was the only unit in the army that would ever test for faith on a 5+. Rets got their act on a 4+ or 3+. Ld 9 check is equivalent to a 2+.
I'll probably try to run a HB squad, but I'll be running only 7 women instead of the full 10 for the same price. E-Z Bake will happen at least once or twice, just because we can.
pretre wrote: There are way more viable units now. Celestians? Viable. Command Squad and Canoness? Viable. Priests? Viable. Doms and Seraphim? Viable. The only non-viable units in the book now is Penitent Engines and, arguably, Repentia. And they've always been like that since 6th dropped.
Are Celestians really viable? I think they got worse. Now that you can get a 5 woman BSS, the only role that Celestians had (small special weapons squad) is gone because the Battle Sisters do it better.
Celestians' AoF is much worse too. They lost Fearless and got Furious Charge instead of the blanket +1 S. Celestians went from bad to worse. If they could score of had 2+ armor or something to differentiate them they might be worth a look.
pretre wrote: There are way more viable units now. Celestians? Viable. Command Squad and Canoness? Viable. Priests? Viable. Doms and Seraphim? Viable. The only non-viable units in the book now is Penitent Engines and, arguably, Repentia. And they've always been like that since 6th dropped.
Are Celestians really viable? I think they got worse. Now that you can get a 5 woman BSS, the only role that Celestians had (small special weapons squad) is gone because the Battle Sisters do it better.
Celestians' AoF is much worse too. They lost Fearless and got Furious Charge instead of the blanket +1 S. Celestians went from bad to worse. If they could score of had 2+ armor or something to differentiate them they might be worth a look.
I agree with this... Celestians are still far from worth it. If they could each take a special weapon they would be super interesting, but as-is they are outclassed.
meh_ wrote: Regarding the Canoness usefulness... Under Ecclesiarchy Relics its written: "Amodel can take one of the following." - does this mean that she can have multiple relics? If so, I think then Canoness tooled up with Cloak of St. Aspia, Mantle of Ophelia and Book of St. Lucius is pretty good (with SCS).
How can you interpret 'one' as 'multiple'? She can have one, that's it.
pretre wrote: PE are a wash they've pretty much always sucked, so that's still true.
Repentia got a nerf to FNP (lost 5+ out of assault) but gained a dedicated transport and priests so that they can get a 3+ FNP, reroll 6+ save, reroll wounds, etc in hand to hand (where they belong). They still lack an assault vehicle which they did before, which is why no one takes them.
There are way more viable units now. Celestians? Viable. Command Squad and Canoness? Viable. Priests? Viable. Doms and Seraphim? Viable. The only non-viable units in the book now is Penitent Engines and, arguably, Repentia. And they've always been like that since 6th dropped.
Penitent Engines are a lot more viable than Repentia currently. Repentia will do what they have always done - die to shooting and vehicle explosions, and rip it up in cc. They are just going to die to shooting a lot faster, and make it to cc a lot less often and rip it up slightly less without their free dead-or-alive hit. +2 FnP one turn in exchange for losing it every other turn is a trade no one would make, given the choice. As to priests, they are much worse for Repentia now - they used to give re-rolls to hit. The last thing Repentia have any use for is re-rolls to wound, and if re-rolling hits wasn't worth losing fleet over I can't imagine re-rolling a 6++ will be.
It wasn't actually that uncommon to see Repentia around, and I've made good use of them myself for a long time. They are a clear loser here though - their weaknesses were magnified and their strengths slightly nerfed. I'm going to play around with them, but they look even more dicey and they were already closer to the ropes with the changes 6th made.
My old Arco-Flagellant models are a bit more handy, though. 5 points cheaper and better at bashing hordes, TEQ's and light vehicles than the competition.
Dervos wrote: To be quite honest I never used AoF myself, I follow the nicety of rolling for faith points but never really used them.
If they worked they worked, but usually they didn't. I didn't bother with it, which seems like a waste of a potential benefit but it was so unreliable I personally felt like it wasn't worth my time, but I know it probably would have been better to have at least tried sometimes.(at least on the dom's anyway)
What game were you playing? Faith tests were never worse than 4+, and often 3+. How is that unreliable?
I think because I didn't use it I misunderstood how the AoF actually worked so I saw it as unreliable.
That's too bad on my part even if the WD codex is invalidated now so I guess it doesn't matter anymore but wow did I mess that up.
Still Standing wrote: Most of the time Seraphim would have a rerollable 3+ or 2+ for their Act of Faith. Sounds really unreliable.
I misunderstood AoF badly apparently, though I never used Seraphim it wouldn't have be an issue either way but still I'm appalled at what I did
Anyway, I'm a little disappointed at the Canoness' Act of Faith. Priests get what she can do active all the time. (I read it from the change list as Hatred).
Yeah... Canoness is stubborn and can get hatred for one turn. Priests are fearless and have hatred all the time...
I treat them like a non scoring BSS unit that is slightly more expensive. The have more attacks and fluff wise they are supposed to be in the "thick" of the battle but really don't reflect that game wise.
To me they are worth it because I don't want allies, don't want repentia and still have points to spend in my army because I've already maxed/ gotten what I wanted out of the other force slots in the particular list I am making.
Are they worth taking for you? For that list you are making?
I feel like most players could get by fine with the elite slot not** existing in this army but that just my opinion since I don't like repentia and I feel like celestian are basically a carbon copy of BSS
Using my old list I translated it into the new costs dropped saint celestine and added a canoness with left just enough room to add another unit of sisters
It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
JGrand wrote: It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
I can't imagine this being anything more than a typo, they could have easily meant to have put "model" instead of unit since it's just one shot, no complaints if they don't change it but I don't think this was intended.
(Well hey there, they just changed the ebook license, they used to let you have 1 hard copy of your ebook but it's not expressely given permission anymore, better buy a kindle or something now if I want to keep playing warhammer 40k)
JGrand wrote: It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
I believe this too, but (unsurprisingly) people who run said deathstars are going to argue for a single perils We'll need to see how the next major TO rules... (or see if GW actually FAQs it )
It will be interesting to see how the perils gun does against certain build, really 100% down to how they rule it. Anyone know how they ruled it for the Grey Knights missiles? That might set a precedent.
It really messes up the two psyker based deathstars but doesnt help against the tau and serpent spam stars.
It's definitely going to need an FAQ just to clarify but I think it's a bit much to claim that it's just a typo. There's a big difference between saying a model must suffer an unsaved wound from the weapon and the weapon must hit the unit to claim just a typo.
Madcat87 wrote: It's definitely going to need an FAQ just to clarify but I think it's a bit much to claim that it's just a typo. There's a big difference between saying a model must suffer an unsaved wound from the weapon and the weapon must hit the unit to claim just a typo.
Yeah, I agree. It's probably not a typo. I think it's pretty clear that if you have a psyker in a unit, even if he's in the back, he takes a wound. I think where it gets a bit more muddy, is in a group of psykers, although it seems like it's a single psyker randomly selected if we go by the perils rules.
JGrand wrote: It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
I believe this too, but (unsurprisingly) people who run said deathstars are going to argue for a single perils We'll need to see how the next major TO rules... (or see if GW actually FAQs it )
Here is the thing. You can line up your shot to kill a specific warlock, so you can get rid of that 2+ armor/cover save warlock. Let me tell you, there is a big difference between a 8/9 save and a 35/36 save.
You might also get some lucky shots on heralds, but they are less vulnerable, as they can LoS the shots off.
JGrand wrote: It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
I believe this too, but (unsurprisingly) people who run said deathstars are going to argue for a single perils We'll need to see how the next major TO rules... (or see if GW actually FAQs it )
Here is the thing. You can line up your shot to kill a specific warlock, so you can get rid of that 2+ armor/cover save warlock. Let me tell you, there is a big difference between a 8/9 save and a 35/36 save.
You might also get some lucky shots on heralds, but they are less vulnerable, as they can LoS the shots off.
Surely you can't LoS perils? Regardless of which, considering how insane deathstars have become (beastpacks, screamer council, draigowing, farsight council), I think the new sisters update is super healthy in terms of keeping them in check.
JGrand wrote: It seems as though 2-3 Condemnor Bolters are an auto-take. If they do force each psyker to perils (save brotherhood of psykers), then it is a hard counter to Seer Council and Screamer stars.
I believe this too, but (unsurprisingly) people who run said deathstars are going to argue for a single perils We'll need to see how the next major TO rules... (or see if GW actually FAQs it )
Here is the thing. You can line up your shot to kill a specific warlock, so you can get rid of that 2+ armor/cover save warlock. Let me tell you, there is a big difference between a 8/9 save and a 35/36 save.
You might also get some lucky shots on heralds, but they are less vulnerable, as they can LoS the shots off.
I like to think of it as a nuclear deterrent. Something I keep a couple of around, but never have to actually use because they will utterly obliterate a list and thus reduce its prevalence in the meta.
I say all of this with no disrespect, Sisters are rare enough that it may not impact things too much... but as Neil and you guys pointed out on the most recent 11th company podcast, rerollable 2+ saves are just NOT fun to play against (my apologies if you are not who I think you are!) so I am more than happy to see them neutered by a simple piece of wargear. Really, it is not that different from how silly the deny the witch on 4d6 piece of wargear is that tau got and its impact on horrors.
Given how it is currently written I will argue till I am blue in the face that every psyker in a unit suffers perils hit from a condemnor, if only to see some list variation across the table.
Given how it is currently written I will argue till I am blue in the face that every psyker in a unit suffers perils hit from a condemnor, if only to see some list variation across the table.
Meta busting Sisters. Love it!
I played a small game with SoB today. 500 pts...
Jacobus
9 girls - HF, F, Condemner
5 Girls -Metla, Melta, TLMM Immo
Exorcist
Had some CSM (slaanesh) buddies (team game) vs. Nids + Chaos (Khorne)
Tell you what, putting a perils on my opponents psyker for free didn't make him happy; with the rest of the volley wasting the thing (those Tyranid caster things, name slips past me, Doom of Malanty (sp) is the named one).
Using Jacobus to give me free Acts of Faith and fearless and hatred? NUTS. I clean swept gaunts even faster. Cheaper TLMM Immolators and Exorcists? Icing.
Was a silly game and the Sisters + Slaanesh totally won the day (poor Nids guy had his Tervigon punked by a rogue Chaos Lord with the murder sword...). I bought a legit Jacobus model (using a proxy) and 2 more immolators. I'm getting an upgrade Sprue from someone who wants a cheaper rhino from GW, so I'll have 5 Immolators and 3 Rhinos.... why might get proxied as Immolators XD
Picking up some fun stuff from Privateer Press's Warmachines line. With the new Adepta Sororitas codex out there's a whole new set of gak to modify, and with Priests picking up a strong leading roll, I'll be damned if I actually have to use any of GW's dirty old men in my army. The Protectorate has donated two female warcasters and the special character Nicia* as Priestesses to lead my sisters to Glory in the God-Emperor's name. Also grabbing a box of "Daughters of the Flame" so I can fill out the ranks of my Death Cult Assassins now that Battle Conclaves appear to be the order of the day again.
I really have to get my old Witch Hunter Inquisitor painted up, who will be standing to as my counts as inquisitor, and one of like... six total male models in my entire Sisters army, counting my crusaders, and who knows what gender they are under all that heavy plate que aff?
*She even comes with a feth huge Zweihander that screams Eviscerator to me!
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Picking up some fun stuff from Privateer Press's Warmachines line. With the new Adepta Sororitas codex out there's a whole new set of gak to modify, and with Priests picking up a strong leading roll, I'll be damned if I actually have to use any of GW's dirty old men in my army. The Protectorate has donated two female warcasters and the special character Nicia* as Priestesses to lead my sisters to Glory in the God-Emperor's name. Also grabbing a box of "Daughters of the Flame" so I can fill out the ranks of my Death Cult Assassins now that Battle Conclaves appear to be the order of the day again.
I really have to get my old Witch Hunter Inquisitor painted up, who will be standing to as my counts as inquisitor, and one of like... six total male models in my entire Sisters army, counting my crusaders, and who knows what gender they are under all that heavy plate que aff?
*She even comes with a feth huge Zweihander that screams Eviscerator to me!
I love this idea, though I feel the daughters may have a bit too much armor compared to the dca's leather bodysuits.
Now I have to figure out how to convert a Menofix to an Imperial Aquila...
So I had my first game with the new codex yesterday I took SoB with IG allies against UM. Took the usual Saint, Uriah, couple of priests + conclave (crusaders + death cult), Doms in melta immolators, SoB in rhinos, Exorcist mix along with IG plasma command squad in a chimera, couple of vet plasma squads in a chimeras, pair of manticores. Normally I'd take flyers (Vultures or Vendettas) with an IG ally list but I decided not to as its becoming a bit predictable, he ended up wasting points on flakk missiles and a stalker.
The extra plasma gave me a much needed edge against his terminators (he had two units) & Calgar with Honor Guard while the conclave managed to tarpit one unit of mixed claw & hammer terminators from turn 2 to end of the game. The manticores work well with the exorcist to mop up anything that is exposed by popping transports. Drew on objectives but I won via first blood, slay the warlord & line breaker.
Next time I'm taking two conclaves and an avenger.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Picking up some fun stuff from Privateer Press's Warmachines line. With the new Adepta Sororitas codex out there's a whole new set of gak to modify, and with Priests picking up a strong leading roll, I'll be damned if I actually have to use any of GW's dirty old men in my army. The Protectorate has donated two female warcasters and the special character Nicia* as Priestesses to lead my sisters to Glory in the God-Emperor's name. Also grabbing a box of "Daughters of the Flame" so I can fill out the ranks of my Death Cult Assassins now that Battle Conclaves appear to be the order of the day again.
I really have to get my old Witch Hunter Inquisitor painted up, who will be standing to as my counts as inquisitor, and one of like... six total male models in my entire Sisters army, counting my crusaders, and who knows what gender they are under all that heavy plate que aff?
*She even comes with a feth huge Zweihander that screams Eviscerator to me!
I love this idea, though I feel the daughters may have a bit too much armor compared to the dca's leather bodysuits.
Now I have to figure out how to convert a Menofix to an Imperial Aquila...
Actually you don't have to! Not really any way!
Please recall the SoB cross in the top left. Of the three special characters, none are super heavily covered in iconography, and some of the menofixes (Nicia's forearm armor in particular) look close enough to the "Femme Cross" That it's an easy conversion. Adding some Imperial Eagles would still be a good idea of course, you just don't have to worry too much about the Menofixes.
Errr rats, someone with the new 'dex, could you please relist all the weapons options for priests? I need to check my bitz stash.
We'll need to see how the next major 
