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The Penitents is fine.
That's still 3+1 for 2 weapons, +2 on the charge for Rage.
6 each isn't exactly shabby.
Repentia losing their Feel No Pain is the first truly bad thing I've seen, and it brings into question their durability, which was tenuous before.
That 6+, 5++ was a big part of letting them make it to combat, and I'll have to see if they're durable enough to get enough bases in contact to blend a unit anymore.
Though on the plus side, I can fit a HQ, 2BSS, 3 full squads of Repentia and 3 full squads of Penitent Engines in to 1500pts now.
S'jet wrote: I keep seeing people saying the command squad celestian's can take eviscerator's, which isnt true.
I think that was a misread on my part.
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pretre wrote: 20 girls with a 25 point priest are now fearless and in combat can reroll failed saves. lol
Can they reroll saves every round?
Can you put a canonness with a 2+ save up front to tank every hit?
With Litanies of Faith in the unit yes, every round without a LD check. Cannoness cannot get a 2+ save, but Celestine has one (and now has Hit and Run on her own!)
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It doesn't say SImulacrum can't be taken by a melta sister does it?
I think in most cases the Simulacrum and the weapons are exclusive. Every entry I see in a quick scan says "One can take a Sim, One OTHER can take..." and so on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/19 00:33:07
Amerikon wrote: I was pointing out various units, and came across an interesting issue: If I want to make a Dominion squad that can ride in an Immolator, there's room for a sixth model. That can be a Sister with a Simulacrum (23pts) or a Preacher (25pts).
So what's more valuable, a second crack at your AoF or Fearless?
It doesn't say SImulacrum can't be taken by a melta sister does it?
It doesn't say so exactly, but it seems implied.
"One Dominion may take a Simulacrum Imperialis"
"Four other Dominions may take..."
Use of the word "other" seems like a pretty good indicator that the Sister with the Simulacrum is not carrying a meltagun. They also had that in the old WDFAQ, not that that counts for much.
Another thing to note, is that the Priest can take a special weapon of his own, so that might boost the argument for the Priest.
Okay, fair enough. Priests can't take special, just ranged, melee and relics.
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I think I might ally some SoB with GKINQ Henchman for some "rabble" to follow them, like in 2nd ed.
The fact that SoB only have 1 troops choice is a hard one for me to swallow.
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Ovion wrote: The Penitents is fine.
That's still 3+1 for 2 weapons, +2 on the charge for Rage.
6 each isn't exactly shabby.
Repentia losing their Feel No Pain is the first truly bad thing I've seen, and it brings into question their durability, which was tenuous before.
That 6+, 5++ was a big part of letting them make it to combat, and I'll have to see if they're durable enough to get enough bases in contact to blend a unit anymore.
Though on the plus side, I can fit a HQ, 2BSS, 3 full squads of Repentia and 3 full squads of Penitent Engines in to 1500pts now.
I think PE spam could work.
Too many attacks for most things to deal with.
Downside is, they have to "get there".
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
So guys, Laud Hailers, 10 points to re-roll your act of faith. Worth it on Immolators for our dominion squads? Maybe even on the Exorcists to re-roll out faiths on the units in the back field.
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Madcat87 wrote: So guys, Laud Hailers, 10 points to re-roll your act of faith. Worth it on Immolators for our dominion squads? Maybe even on the Exorcists to re-roll out faiths on the units in the back field.
For a pure Sisters force, you definitely want a handful on vehicles for coverage. Given you only get one chance to use the AOF and are generally going to want to line a few up to hammer something in the same phase, the reroll is definitely worth it.
Acts of Faith only work when in units that are entirely comprised of units with the rule (so Celestine can NOT stand back up if she is in a platoon).
However, Hymns do not share the same wording so as far as I can tell they work in IG units.
The hymns allow you to choose one of the following EACH fight subphase (your turn and your opponents) if you pass a LD check:
The unit can reroll armor saves
The priest gains the Smash special rule
The unit can reroll attempts to wound
Priests (Jacobus) and IG definitely got better.
Furthermore I see no reason they could not stack if you have multiple priests... so Jacobus and 2 priests (one with Litanies) means you will have a unit that rerolls its saves, rerolls its wounds, rerolls hits on the charge (hatred), has counterattack (Jacobus), is fearless, and Jacobus will have Smash (S3 AP2 hits, or S6 AP2 if he needs to smash something)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/19 01:07:36
I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
meh_ wrote:If i remember correctly, pretre wrote that Jacobus doesn't give +1 A anymore. What about FNP and re-roll on the charge?
Both of those are gone, he now just has Zealot, and provides a 12" fearless and counterattack bubble. He does things with Acts of Faith, but that doesn't impact Guard blobs.
war wrote:I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
Only 1/6th of the missions care about KPs, and if you stick them in a blob of Sisters or Guard they are much harder to single out. If someone has dedicated the firepower to kill 20 sisters or 30+ guardsmen to kill the priest and get the killpoint you should either be dominating the rest of the board, or you are in a ton of trouble anyways and the extra KP probably doesn't matter. Given the ease with which we put KPs on the table with the change to 5 girl BSSs, and the cost reduction in Immolators... an extra priest or two is just a drop in the bucket in my opinion.
meh_ wrote: If i remember correctly, pretre wrote that Jacobus doesn't give +1 A anymore. What about FNP and re-roll on the charge?
Nope. Although he does have Hymns
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pretre wrote: I just posted all the changes I could find in the news and rumors. Here's a quick cut and paste in spoilers
Spoiler:
Warlord Traits
1) Fear
2) 5+ Shield of Faith for Warlord's Unit
3) Reroll DTW
4) Rage
5) 12" Warlord Leadership bubble for Act of Faith or War Hymns
6) Stubborn
Army Special Rules:
Acts of Faith are Leadership Test now.
All units with Shield of Faith have Adamantium Will
If a Martyrdom unit dies, all units with Act of Faith special rule pass all Leadership tests until end of your next turn.
No mention of faith points. You can just do your act for a leadership test.
Only one AoF per unit per phase. You can only use AoF if all models have AoF or War Hymns.
Holy crap, all acts of faith are once per game. That's a nerf.
Canoness AOF is Hatred in either Assault Phase.
AoF not limited to your turn.
Command Squad gets Fleet, Crusader, MTC AOF.
Priests can use War Hymns at beginning of Sub Phase for one effect
- Priest and unit Reroll all failed armor and invul until end of phase
- Smash special rule for priest
- Priest and unit gets reroll to wound
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Holy gak, priests are good?
DCA and Crusaders are limited to Swords now.
Celestians get Furious Charge and is only on Friendly assault phase.
Battle Sisters get Preferred Enemy AOF, no regroup version.
Repentia get 3+ FNP for either player's assault phase.
Dominions get Ignores Cover AOF, no more twin link. Still have scout.
Retributors keep rending. One use only. NERF.
Seraphim reroll invuls still, but not faith checks. Get Shred in Shooting Phase AOF
PEs are still walkers.
Searchlights are stock on Rhinos and Still have Shield of Faith
Uriah gives out a 5+ to his unit and once per game his unit can reuse an AoF. Auto pass.
All models within 12" of Uriah have Fearless and Counter-attack.
Celestine is one use only for standing up. Use her leadership for all AOF within 12". She has H&R. Her weapon is now S5 AP3, Master Crafted.
Neural Whips are S User, AP3, and get Shred against units with Ld 8 or less.
Blessed standard is 12" reroll morale fear and pinning.
Laud hailer is reroll AoF rolls within 12"
Simulacrum allows 2 AOF for one unit. One per phase. If you lose the Simulacrum from casualties, no more AOF for the rest of the battle.
Litanies of Faith. Bearer and unit automatically pass Aof or War Hymns.
Cloak of StA - Reroll all failed Armour and SoF invuls
Mantle of Ophelia - Eternal Warrior
Blade of Admonition - S+2 AP3, Master Crafter
Book of St Lucius - All friendly within 12" auto pass Fear or Regroup
Sacred Banner of the order - All friendly within 12" have +1 att and reroll failed morale, fear and pinning
Mace of Valaan - S+2 AP4, Melee, Chaos-Bane, Concussive, Master Crafter, Gets fleshbane and armourbane when wielder is within 6" of one or more models wityh the Daemon Special Rule
Eviscerator is on Melee list for 30. Power weapon for 15
Inferno Pistol on Ranged Weapon but is canoness only.
Combis are still 10
PP are still 15
Specials are 5 for Storm, 5 for Flamer, 10 for melta
Heavies are Bolter 10, Flamer 10, MM 10
Vehicles - SB 5, Dozer 5, EA 10, HK 10, Laud 10
Relics
BOSL - 5!!!
Litanies - 15
Cloak - 20
Mace - 25 (Priest only)
Mantle - 25
Blade of A - 30 (canoness only, replaces one weapon)
Celestine 20 point increase
Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
Celestine 20 point increase
Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
SCS - 50 point drop! Hospitaller costs 10, Dialogous costs 5. Dialogous can take relics. Can take standards for 15/40. Simulacrum 10. Any Celestian can take Melee, Ranged, Special or Heavy!!!
BSS - Sups can take Melee so Eviscerators are back. 30 points.
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Immo 60 points. 20 point decrease from MM version!!! Free mult-melta, not fast or anything like that. No fire points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Celestians - 10 point decrease for squad, 1 decrease for each additional. 1 Special and 1 Special or heavy. Superior can take melee or ranged. Still means they have the wrong act of faith.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Repentia, 5 pt decrease for squad. 3 pts less for each additional. May take a dedicated transport.
Repentia do not have FNP naturally. but have SoF, fleet, rage, fearless.
Seraphim. 5 pts decrease for base squad. Hand flamers 10 point decrease per. Inferno pistols same. Does not come with superior. Sup costs 10 points. Sup can only buy chainsword, power sword, or plasma pistol.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Exorcist, 10 point decrease. 13/11/10, 3 HP, Free Searchlight and Smoke
Penitent Engine, 5 point decrease per. 3 attacks, no more D6+1. Rage, SoF, Unstoppable (ignore shaken and stunned). Still Open Topped.
Rets. 5 Point decrease. 10 pts for Vet. Simulacrum for 10. four get heavies. So more expensive by 25 for 4 HB in one squad.
5 Rets - 60
Simulacrum - 10
4 HB - 40
Vet - 10
120 Yuck. They got worse for 2 AOF per game.
3 Missions: Recover the Relics (check objectives for holy relics to get bonus VP), Defend the Shrine (defend a center thing that gives all units with AOF reroll invuls and +1 leadership), Purge the Arch Heretic (Kill Points with bonus for enemy warlord)
no petre... i'm not crazy... I really think they got weaker.
but... being a good sport it looks to me like this is what I'd try...
HQ Uriah
Troops
20 sisters with 2 melta guns and priest
20 sisters with 2 melta guns and priest
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
5 sisters with melta guns in a heavy flamer immolator
Heavy
exorcist
exorcist
exorcist
And sadly i don't have the codex yet so i can't point this out... just going by rumors of it...
Just read the post above mine... add combi condemnor bolt guns everywhere to this list... that alone COULD make it worth it... hurting both eldar and deamons alike
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/19 01:28:42
war wrote:I'm still not convinced about priests. They still have the same downside they had before, that being they give your opponent a kill point and are easy to kill. They make a unit better in hand to hand, but i'm not sure if its enough to justify the purchase.
Only 1/6th of the missions care about KPs, and if you stick them in a blob of Sisters or Guard they are much harder to single out. If someone has dedicated the firepower to kill 20 sisters or 30+ guardsmen to kill the priest and get the killpoint you should either be dominating the rest of the board, or you are in a ton of trouble anyways and the extra KP probably doesn't matter. Given the ease with which we put KPs on the table with the change to 5 girl BSSs, and the cost reduction in Immolators... an extra priest or two is just a drop in the bucket in my opinion.
Very true, I'm leaning towards an MSU army with just a silly amount of melta and flame weapons. Bubble-wrapping my Exorcists with priest enforced BSS or allied guardsmen may prove useful.
I believe MSUSoB armies are going to be incredible.
4-5 units of troops choices with as many flamers and Heavy Flamers as you can pack in, with a Priest and Combi Flamer in a TLMM Immolator looks solid.
Not sure if a 5th or 6th troops choice will be needed as Sisters are damned useless at taking objectives, but they have been beefed up considerably at dmg dealing.
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Just downloaded the codex. Very happy! Allied Guard with Priest will be great! Fearlessness for cheap! Meltaguns, Multi-meltas, and heavy flamers for the same price is awesome. I love the possibilities that this codex gives. Wheeee!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/19 02:45:38
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My first crack at updating a WD List to use the new rules:
HQ St Celestine - 135
4x Priests - 125
TROOPS
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, MM Immo - 145
FAST
Seraphim, 10 Women, 2x Hand Flamers, VSS - 180
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Melta, Simulacrum, VSS, MM Immo - 188
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Melta, Simulacrum, VSS, MM Immo - 188
HEAVY
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
TOTAL: 1746
I think being able to make all your scoring units Fearless is huge. A cool thing about the new pricing for Immolators is that your MM Immo now costs exactly the same as 5 more Sisters, so you can make an even trade without having to recalculate the points. I might trade out the Immos in two of the BSSs just to get more bodies on the table.
2500pts - Imbros Irregulars
- 3000pts