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Post by: ERJAK
endlesswaltz123 wrote: LunarSol wrote:Gryphonne wrote:There is no access to command points (which is outright stupid for an elite army supposed to rely on strats); the strategems have now been entirely spoiled in the codex review and they are incredibly lackluster.
This is pretty much a universal problem for all the elite armies. I think the theory is that elite armies spend their fewer points on more meaningful rolls, but in practice, a Guard Brigade gets more quality rolls anyway and the elite army is really in need of the extra CP. I'm not sure how to actually write a system that works that way, but I do think the Patrol detachment should be worth at least 1 CP if not 2. Trying to make a Battalion happen in an army with troops and HQs that start at 100 points without gear is pretty crippling. Patrols are lot more manageable, but 0 CP just compounds the issue that lead you to a Patrol in the first place.
I'd suggest reducing the amount of points certain detachments give, and replace those missing CP's by stating you automatically get say 1 or 2 per complete 500 points of game play, so each army gets 4 at 1000pts, 8 at 2000 etc, then your detachments etc give less. Brigades will still reward by giving more CP points than an elite army using a smaller detachment(s), but smaller elite armies will have substantial access to a decent amount of CP's that they struggle to have now.
I think they should have come out with faction specific replacements to the baseline force orgs.
How much more balanced would AM be if THEIR version of the brigade had to take 3 baseline leman russ battletanks.
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Post by: Spartan117xyz
you kniw maybe fir small armies they should give them relics or warlord traits, or even an army wide rule to get CP back on a 3-4+. that way even with very few command points we would stretch them out way longer. maybe steal too. that way even though we have so few it would multiply our CP count but not have to shift a ton of rules around. this goes for grey knights too
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Post by: BrianDavion
Spartan117xyz wrote:you kniw maybe fir small armies they should give them relics or warlord traits, or even an army wide rule to get CP back on a 3-4+. that way even with very few command points we would stretch them out way longer. maybe steal too. that way even though we have so few it would multiply our CP count but not have to shift a ton of rules around. this goes for grey knights too
elite armies should ALL have a char with a rule ala abbaddon, gulliman and calgar.
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Post by: Mantle
Actually a straight up given rule to highly elite armies should allow command point regen rather than a specific special character, special character crutches are far too common at the minute
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Mantle wrote:Actually a straight up given rule to highly elite armies should allow command point regen rather than a specific special character, special character crutches are far too common at the minute
make it a bonus some generic HQs get.
raises the question, do we know what kinda "buff bubble" trajan and the sheild captains have?
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Post by: Audustum
Trajan is re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound. Shields are re-roll 1's to Hit.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Audustum wrote:Trajan is re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound. Shields are re-roll 1's to Hit.
So space marine captains and chapter master then. makes sense.
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Post by: Galas
Trajan also has the "one use per game" hability from 3 choices. Attacking another time in the same round, regen D3 CP from a Stratagem (Maximun the CP spend in that stratagem) and the third one I can't remember what whas it.
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
Are you all mental? CP are one of the ways the game is somewhat balanced.
You want to run all spearhead/vanguard/outrider detachments but have all the CP too?
There is a reason it is set up that way.
Run your super elite armies, but you know you have less flexibility.
Run your troops and have more tricks.
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Post by: Spartan117xyz
 Uriels_Flame wrote:Are you all mental? CP are one of the ways the game is somewhat balanced.
You want to run all spearhead/vanguard/outrider detachments but have all the CP too?
There is a reason it is set up that way.
Run your super elite armies, but you know you have less flexibility.
Run your troops and have more tricks.
uhh you must not have played elite armies then. also what you said is kinda exactly whats the problem.
with large armies they out number, out gun, and out trick small armies. small armies dont have anything. yeah we are more elite. but when you have way more models. and can use your powerful stratagems more then a small army its like the small army is handicapped.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
BrianDavion wrote:Audustum wrote:Trajan is re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound. Shields are re-roll 1's to Hit.
So space marine captains and chapter master then. makes sense.
Actually, Trajan combines a Captain and Lieutenant. Technically Shield Captain's provide the same bonus as a Chapter Master (everything is 2+ to hit, so they reroll all misses).
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Post by: nordsturmking
 casvalremdeikun wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Audustum wrote:Trajan is re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound. Shields are re-roll 1's to Hit.
So space marine captains and chapter master then. makes sense.
Actually, Trajan combines a Captain and Lieutenant. Technically Shield Captain's provide the same bonus as a Chapter Master (everything is 2+ to hit, so they reroll all misses).
Only if you don't have -1 on your hit roll. You can't reroll a 2.
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Post by: carabine
Spartan117xyz wrote: Uriels_Flame wrote:Are you all mental? CP are one of the ways the game is somewhat balanced.
You want to run all spearhead/vanguard/outrider detachments but have all the CP too?
There is a reason it is set up that way.
Run your super elite armies, but you know you have less flexibility.
Run your troops and have more tricks.
uhh you must not have played elite armies then. also what you said is kinda exactly whats the problem.
with large armies they out number, out gun, and out trick small armies. small armies dont have anything. yeah we are more elite. but when you have way more models. and can use your powerful stratagems more then a small army its like the small army is handicapped.
I coulda sworn that elite armies were balanced by objective play and mobility. Honestly I think command points are just a really bad idea as a mechanic. I already abhor limited use per game abilities (single fire, old combi weapons, and now CPs), CPs force elite armies into taking mass units they don't need or can't use properly in order to get put into a balanced situation with much cheaper forces. While those same cheaper forces actually benefit from taking thier base troops en masse in addition to the CP benefits.
Hordes already have a sizeable advantage in forcing rolls, holding objectives, and outlasting casualties, CPs are just another boost they don't need.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 nordsturmking wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Audustum wrote:Trajan is re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound. Shields are re-roll 1's to Hit.
So space marine captains and chapter master then. makes sense.
Actually, Trajan combines a Captain and Lieutenant. Technically Shield Captain's provide the same bonus as a Chapter Master (everything is 2+ to hit, so they reroll all misses).
Only if you don't have -1 on your hit roll. You can't reroll a 2.
That is true. It is one of the weird side effects of how those modifiers are placed. But that would be the case of it was a Chapter Master affecting a Marine with a 2+ as well.
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Post by: tneva82
Mantle wrote:Actually a straight up given rule to highly elite armies should allow command point regen rather than a specific special character, special character crutches are far too common at the minute
Say hello to group of custodians giving regenerating CP's for non-elite armies as well then.
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Post by: Crimson_
Of course this has to be a rule that is only in place if all your detachments have the Custodes keyword.
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Post by: tneva82
So that would then be special snowflake custodes rule only...Not likely happening. If GW would be inventing special rules you get by having all detachments have that they would have done that long time ago.
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Post by: Crimson_
I cannot see them doing this as well. We will likely only get points changes. But filling a brigade detachement will be next to impossible in a standard sized game.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Crimson_ wrote:I cannot see them doing this as well. We will likely only get points changes. But filling a brigade detachement will be next to impossible in a standard sized game.
the obvious idea is to create a rule for "Primary detachment" that reflects where the bulk of your points are. so "if your primary detachment is X you get Y"
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Post by: Kdash
BrianDavion wrote:Crimson_ wrote:I cannot see them doing this as well. We will likely only get points changes. But filling a brigade detachement will be next to impossible in a standard sized game.
the obvious idea is to create a rule for "Primary detachment" that reflects where the bulk of your points are. so "if your primary detachment is X you get Y"
I would go for bulk of units, not points. For example, a Guard Leman Russ spearhead is going to cost more than the supporting basic brigade brought alongside it, yet it'll have dramatically less model count, effect and "footprint".
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Post by: BrianDavion
Kdash wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Crimson_ wrote:I cannot see them doing this as well. We will likely only get points changes. But filling a brigade detachement will be next to impossible in a standard sized game.
the obvious idea is to create a rule for "Primary detachment" that reflects where the bulk of your points are. so "if your primary detachment is X you get Y"
I would go for bulk of units, not points. For example, a Guard Leman Russ spearhead is going to cost more than the supporting basic brigade brought alongside it, yet it'll have dramatically less model count, effect and "footprint".
except that's not really fair because I could take a tinsy portion of guard to augment my custodes and suddenly I'm playing guard despite only 250 points of them on the table
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Post by: tneva82
BrianDavion wrote:Crimson_ wrote:I cannot see them doing this as well. We will likely only get points changes. But filling a brigade detachement will be next to impossible in a standard sized game.
the obvious idea is to create a rule for "Primary detachment" that reflects where the bulk of your points are. so "if your primary detachment is X you get Y"
GW gave already "army" rule. It's called warlord. They don't go for point calcuation to decide what free rules you get.
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Post by: kombatwombat
Crimson_ wrote:Of course this has to be a rule that is only in place if all your detachments have the Custodes keyword.
This is actually a wonderfully elegant way of balancing the power disparity between Soup armies and ‘Pure’, one-Codex armies. Instead of having rules like traits, stratagems and relics require your entire detachment share a certain keyword, make it so they require your entire army to share it.
You could very easily set this up for something like everything having the Imperium keyword gets you Battleforged, Space Marine keyword gets you Codex Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits, Raven Guard gets you Chapter Tactics and their specific Relic/Warlord Trait/Stratagem.
Yeah there’s need to be exceptions like Inquisition and Harlies, but they’re just that - exceptions.
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Post by: cuda1179
So, the first comparison pics are in of the new Terminator models. They are actually smaller than the Guardians. This makes me rather sad.
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Post by: Irbis
ERJAK wrote:I think they should have come out with faction specific replacements to the baseline force orgs.
How much more balanced would AM be if THEIR version of the brigade had to take 3 baseline leman russ battletanks.
How would it be balanced? 
Most IG armies wouldn't care, as they take them anyway, you'd just feth all over original, fluffy armies that take something unusual, forcing them to take something ill-fitting their concept. Not to mention, cookie cutter mandatory units for bonuses were such big part of crap that was 7th they should die with it. No more 'sale boosters', just NO.
BrianDavion wrote:elite armies should ALL have a char with a rule ala abbaddon, gulliman and calgar.
You know, I was wondering about such solution too... But then you'd see elite armies spamming HQ detachments (specifically, captains on bikes/ GK NDGM, acting like untargettable tanks) to gain 10+ CP each game. Smells of 7th ed dekurions, unfluffy and gamey.
kombatwombat wrote:This is actually a wonderfully elegant way of balancing the power disparity between Soup armies and ‘Pure’, one-Codex armies. Instead of having rules like traits, stratagems and relics require your entire detachment share a certain keyword, make it so they require your entire army to share it.
You could very easily set this up for something like everything having the Imperium keyword gets you Battleforged, Space Marine keyword gets you Codex Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits, Raven Guard gets you Chapter Tactics and their specific Relic/Warlord Trait/Stratagem.
Yeah there’s need to be exceptions like Inquisition and Harlies, but they’re just that - exceptions.
<insert Archer guy>Do you want to kill all smaller factions? Because that's how you kill weaker factions</Archer guy> 
It makes very little sense, too, why would Ultramarines suddenly forgot how to fight? That IG squad next to them makes them nervous or something? What? If you want to do something, pure factions should give you extra bonus, not PENALIZE you for every slightest transgression. Actually, Sigmar ally rules are already a good system, no idea why GW didn't added it to 40K yet.
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Post by: CassianSol
ERJAK wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I think they should have come out with faction specific replacements to the baseline force orgs.
How much more balanced would AM be if THEIR version of the brigade had to take 3 baseline leman russ battletanks.
This is a great idea. Very, very interesting.
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Post by: Geifer
 cuda1179 wrote:So, the first comparison pics are in of the new Terminator models. They are actually smaller than the Guardians. This makes me rather sad.
Got a link? I want to be sad, too!
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Post by: changemod
 Geifer wrote: cuda1179 wrote:So, the first comparison pics are in of the new Terminator models. They are actually smaller than the Guardians. This makes me rather sad.
Got a link? I want to be sad, too!
1
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Post by: Crazyterran
So terminators just suck, then. :(
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Post by: Ordana
wtf, why are terminators smaller. what is this....
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Post by: cuda1179
WTF were the designers thinking? Did they use a base template from marine terminators and forget to scale it up 10%?
Oh well. I thought my third party terminators were slightly too small. Turns out they are slightly too big.
I was going to buy a box, but not now. My HQ will be a converted FW terminator (or non-converted if FW releases decent rules).
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Post by: Geifer
Thanks for the picture, but I'm not seeing it. Looks like a combination of pose and banana hat to me.
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Post by: Asmodai
Any comparisons with the FW Aquilon Terminators?
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Post by: cuda1179
The guardian is using the most "spread leg" set of legs in the kit, so that can't account for much. The eyes of the guardian are higher than the terminator's head.
If anything the proportions should be reversed.
Reminds me of the old school 25mm based marine terminators standing next to modern power armor.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Smol Terminators, presumably because Wee Man Syndrome?
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Post by: cuda1179
GW states that their rules are model driven. I guess we now know why custodes terminators have such anaemic rules and why they only have a 5++ save, the model doesn't support anything more.
On the plus side it leaves me with hope that FW terminators will have stats we expect custodes terminators to have. Namely a natural 4++ and likely a movement value of 5.
If the 40k rules for their weapons are about what is expected I'd think 95 points per model would be about right.
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Post by: stahly
Well I don't think there is such a height difference between regular Custodes armour and Custodes Terminator armour like with Space Marines. Remember, power armoured Marines were always on the small size.
On the other hand, has nobody noticed yet that the new HQ character looks like 10% upscaled in comparison to other Custodes models? Especially his head and feet are much larger. Wish they would put more care into keeping the scales consistent...
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Post by: Galas
cuda1179 wrote:So, the first comparison pics are in of the new Terminator models. They are actually smaller than the Guardians. This makes me rather sad.
Can you show it, please?
EDIT: Ok nevermind. I think they are actually the same height, is just the pose and the banana hat has Geifer has said. But I'll wait until I have them in my hands. All the pics of Plague Marines on the internet had them being ENORMOUS, and then once I had then in my hands they where actually the same size as DV chosen.
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Post by: Mymearan
They aren't smaller, don't be silly guys. They are all made from the same base 3D model, how in the world would they end up smaller? They are the same size. It's harder to tell in the photo because they have different poses and the Terminator is missing half his bits, including his huge pauldrons. What's perhaps a bit unexpected is that the Terminators aren't bigger than their brethren, which is traditionally the case.
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Post by: LunarSol
 Mymearan wrote:They aren't smaller, don't be silly guys. They are all made from the same base 3D model, how in the world would they end up smaller? They are the same size. It's harder to tell in the photo because they have different poses and the Terminator is missing half his bits, including his huge pauldrons. What's perhaps a bit unexpected is that the Terminators aren't bigger than their brethren, which is traditionally the case.
Height slider. If you set the the models to print to the same height but one of them has something over his head that the other does not (in this case, the terminator shell) then you end up with a slightly smaller character. You sometimes see this happen with big hats, but more commonly happens in reverse, where kneeling models would be absolutely giagantic if they stood up straight.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Never been that bothered about differences in size - humans vary in size quite a bit - I still use models from Rogue Trader alongside brand new ones. Same with my Escher gangers
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Post by: Dulahan
I believe I hard Custodes vary in height from 8 to 10 feet tall too. So, yeah...
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Post by: nordsturmking
The termi is missing his pauldrons in this picture.
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Post by: Galas
This guy has already a unboxing+Review of the bikes:
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Post by: nordsturmking
from Bolterandchainsword forum:
a post made by LaLongCarabine
Well I got my hands on a scan of the points values for the codex. Someone care to remind me on rules on posting pics of copyrighted material prior to release?
Until then here we go.
Allarus 3-10, 70pts
Guard 3-10, 40pts
Wardens 3-10, 49pts
Shield Captain - 110 pts
Allarus Shield Captain - 130
Dawneagle Shield Captain - 150
Venerable Dread - 130
Venerable Raider - 283
Vertus Praetors 3-10, 80
Vexilus Praetor - 80
Allarus Vexilus Praetor - 100
Balistus grenade launcher - free
Castellan axe - 14
Combi bolter - 2
Guardian spear - 12
hunter killer - 6
hurricane bolter - 10
Kheres assault cannon - 25
Multi melta - 27
Salvo Launcher - 25
Sentinel Blade - 9
storm bolter - 2
Twin H. bolter - 17
Twin lascannon 50
DCCW - 40
Interceptor lance - free
Misericordia - 4
Storm shield (character) - 15
Storm shield (other models ) -10
Vexilla defensor - 20
vexilla Imperius - 50
vexilla magnifica - 30
Confirms minimum squadsize of 3 for bikes no room for error.
For some reason the Dreadnought went up by 28pts
Land raider is now 36pts more expensive. (go figure that one.)
And Storm shields are now 5pts heavier.
I guess they decided they'd sold enough land raiders and dreads....
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Post by: Galas
Cool, so Vexillas have different point costs, thats very nice. What I don't understand its how the 5++ one for Imperium is the cheaper...
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Post by: Gryphonne
Wow, the LR is completely pointless at that price. It didn't even keep its invulnerable save.
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Post by: Mantle
Isn't the 5++ the imperius and the defensor is the -1 to hit?
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Post by: Audustum
Mantle wrote:Isn't the 5++ the imperius and the defensor is the -1 to hit?
Magnifica is the -1 to Hit. That's all I remember though.
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Post by: Ordana
 Galas wrote:Cool, so Vexillas have different point costs, thats very nice. What I don't understand its how the 5++ one for Imperium is the cheaper...
I don't get it either but remember its only for units wholly within 9". So that limits it a lot.
Imperius is +1 A
Defensor is 5++
Magnifica is -1 to hit
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Post by: Galas
Ordana wrote: Galas wrote:Cool, so Vexillas have different point costs, thats very nice. What I don't understand its how the 5++ one for Imperium is the cheaper...
I don't get it either but remember its only for units wholly within 9". So that limits it a lot.
Imperius is +1 A
Defensor is 5++
Magnifica is -1 to hit
Brimstones have shown us how toxic are extremely cheap units with invulnerable saves... for Adeptus forces Magnifica is the obvious choice. Maybe an Allarus Vexilla could take Imperius, because he can deep strike once your units are in meele.
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Post by: Mantle
Ordana wrote: Galas wrote:Cool, so Vexillas have different point costs, thats very nice. What I don't understand its how the 5++ one for Imperium is the cheaper...
I don't get it either but remember its only for units wholly within 9". So that limits it a lot.
Imperius is +1 A
Defensor is 5++
Magnifica is -1 to hit
Someone in the rules writing team loved 7th edition combo BS
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Post by: Galas
I still don't believe the Custodes Vexilla with 5++ will be used. Its 100 points. For that you can have 30 more guardsmen. I don't know the maths but I don't think the Vexilla will be favoured.
And the combo with Bullgryns is too many points for a very slow "deathstar" that is still vulnerable to psychic and MW spam.
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Post by: str00dles1
Dreads suck and LR sucks, but we have a 50% chance forgeworld will vastly undercost the tanks and or their own dreads to make them really good (per how forgeworld usually "balances" stuff) so theres hope!
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Post by: Wulfey
Custodes codex is just like Grey Knights codex. You won't see any Custodes in a list that wins more than it loses beyond a supreme command detachment of undercosted HQs. GK Grandmasters in DK armor are viable. Custodes shield captains on bikes are viable. Everything else in the codexes is overpriced elite stuff that moves slowly.
EDIT: wardens with axes are good. They at least melee at a level comparable to their points. And yeah, 100 points for a 5++ versus shooting seems pretty iffy. Why not just have 3 more mortar teams?
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Post by: SilverAlien
Yeah the fact it acts like kff and you need the entire unit inside is gonna keep it from being that impressive.
Looking at the points, brigade+vanguard (or maybe outrider) seems the only logical way to deploy the army.
I think custodes will be cp starved enough they'll end up using the terminators for more deepstriking units. Also being a better way to get more axes on the field, wardens look a bit pricey for that without the advantages of the terminators.
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Post by: ironicsilence
im sure its buried in this thread somewhere but is there a release date on the bikes? Next week perhaps? Strange they arent up for pre order yet
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Post by: Audustum
SilverAlien wrote:Yeah the fact it acts like kff and you need the entire unit inside is gonna keep it from being that impressive.
Looking at the points, brigade+vanguard (or maybe outrider) seems the only logical way to deploy the army.
I think custodes will be cp starved enough they'll end up using the terminators for more deepstriking units. Also being a better way to get more axes on the field, wardens look a bit pricey for that without the advantages of the terminators.
2 Jetbike Captains and 3 units of spear guards is like 800ish points. That's not awful for a Custodes Battalion.
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Post by: Ghaz
 ironicsilence wrote:im sure its buried in this thread somewhere but is there a release date on the bikes? Next week perhaps? Strange they arent up for pre order yet
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/21/next-weeks-pre-orders-ever-changing-ever-vigilant/
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Post by: ironicsilence
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Post by: LunarSol
SilverAlien wrote:Yeah the fact it acts like kff and you need the entire unit inside is gonna keep it from being that impressive.
Looking at the points, brigade+vanguard (or maybe outrider) seems the only logical way to deploy the army.
I think custodes will be cp starved enough they'll end up using the terminators for more deepstriking units. Also being a better way to get more axes on the field, wardens look a bit pricey for that without the advantages of the terminators.
Supreme Command of 3 bike captains maybe? I'm probably going to try it at least since I can't get one without a couple more anyway.
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Post by: Yodhrin
This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.
But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.
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Post by: LunarSol
 Yodhrin wrote:This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.
But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.
This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.
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Post by: Yodhrin
LunarSol wrote: Yodhrin wrote:This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.
But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.
This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.
Eh, even that's a bit much for me. I'm the type of crusty old grog who'll only ever use Grey Knights as a single allied Terminator squad.
I did work out how to have my cake and eat it though - a small tweak to the fluff(or at least, what I assume will be the fluff, if it turns out to be unnecessary all the better) to eliminate any silly "these super-elite functionally-immortal warriors who learn every facet of war, diplomacy, art, and culture and know every deep dark secret of the Imperium pick one single gear loadout and use only that forever and ever" stuff, and I can have my unit of robed Custodians, my unit of jetbikes, and my unit of FW Terminators, they'll just all represent the same five characters using different equipment.
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Post by: nordsturmking
So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
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Post by: Geifer
LunarSol wrote: Yodhrin wrote:This release is actually starting to bile ma pish as it were. I don't really like this style of army from a background perspective. I don't really like the new 40K lore. I don't like collecting armies I'd feel obligated not to use very often because of how I feel about their lore. I'm not even that big a fan of Custodes showing up regularly in Heresy games.
But dem jetbikes tho. And the Shield-Captain build from the new robed kit is aces.
This is why I'm a huge fan of detachments. There's a lot of awesome armies that have models I adore but 2000 points worth just loses its luster when it starts repeating itself. It's very easy with the new system to get like 500-1000 points of awesome stuff and play around with it in one of my more established armies though.
If the posted points are correct, my 1000 points army will be six Terminators, a Dreadnought and three regular dudes. I suspect in the case of Custodes you won't have to worry about repetitiveness before you hit 3000 points.
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Post by: LunarSol
Yeah, these guys aren't a problem with that at all. Still, its nice to buy one box, meaningfully change up a sizeable chunk of my list and build into Custodes as I feel like it. Much easier than buying/painting 2000 points straight away.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Well, now that I see what the squad sizes are, I am leaning toward a Battalion with an Axe Terminator Shield Captain and Trajan, two Terminator Vexillus Praetors(probably going to need to convert one so he has a Vexilla), 3x Guardian Squads (one Sword and Board and two Spear), and a Supreme Command Detachment with three Shield Captains on Jetbikes. I guess I will need to figure out the points for that.
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Post by: Raulengrin
Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
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Post by: Kdash
The cost of the +1 attack Vexilla... Damn...
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Post by: str00dles1
nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Best hope is FW broken custodies units and or the next Chapter Approved and get the Nurgle Deathshroud treatment! It amuses me more the 0 option contemptor has a 5++ and a 6+ where LR just lost the invuln.
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Post by: Daedalus81
nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away. Automatically Appended Next Post: casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Daedalus81 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
That's for sure. I am looking at less than $300 for the remaining stuff I need to run the models I listed.
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Post by: str00dles1
Daedalus81 wrote: nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
I have the book, it is that bad.
I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.
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Post by: Raulengrin
I just put together the terminators. I did a comparison (had two on the same base), using similarly posed models, and the regular guard and the terminators, eye to eye, are the same height. With weapons and shoulder pads, they look a bit (though not demonstrably) larger and bulkier on the tabletop. It's just the peaked helmet that make the guard appear taller.
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Post by: Fireball
looking at that picture I think everything is fine ...
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Post by: Desubot
str00dles1 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote: nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
I have the book, it is that bad.
I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.
Wait they took off the 5++??
What does it actually get over a normal raider?
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Post by: Dulahan
2+ Lascannons.
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Desubot wrote:str00dles1 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote: nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
I have the book, it is that bad.
I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.
Wait they took off the 5++??
What does it actually get over a normal raider?
2+ BS?
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Post by: carabine
BrianDavion wrote: Desubot wrote:str00dles1 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote: nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
I have the book, it is that bad.
I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.
Wait they took off the 5++??
What does it actually get over a normal raider?
2+ BS?
With the loss of the 5++ it's already not worth its old points to try and take in the new army, combined with the jump in cost I'd rather take a Vexilla Magnificum and risk walking across the board with another 7 infantry as ablative wounds that I can buy for it. Or maybe I'll just take bikes... really hating how so many of my choices are coming down to "is it better to just take bikes?" It's the sign of poor design when everything in your options is compared to one choice.
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Post by: Audustum
 carabine wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Desubot wrote:str00dles1 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote: nordsturmking wrote:So a Land Raider is now 400p and a Shadowsword is 404p seems fair. It don't get it. I know the land raider can transport 5 Custodes. But 400p? so i assume they don't compare units from one army to the units from another army.
Previously they were paying BS3 price for BS2 lascannons. I'd have to look at the full book before I judge it. It seems weird they would increase the base cost if the 5++ did go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:Raulengrin wrote:Quick maths and from rumored point costs, around 1565 before banners are chosen.
Jeez... That is a hefty amount of points. I suppose I could grab a Contemptor with the remaining points, but for like 20 models, that is a ton of points. Maybe just run the bikes as a regular squad instead. Especially with Trajan's ability to get some command points back.
On the plus side...least expensive army to collect!
I have the book, it is that bad.
I dunno about the cheapest. If you did full bike army, its 420 before any discounts so possibly.
Wait they took off the 5++??
What does it actually get over a normal raider?
2+ BS?
With the loss of the 5++ it's already not worth its old points to try and take in the new army, combined with the jump in cost I'd rather take a Vexilla Magnificum and risk walking across the board with another 7 infantry as ablative wounds that I can buy for it. Or maybe I'll just take bikes... really hating how so many of my choices are coming down to "is it better to just take bikes?" It's the sign of poor design when everything in your options is compared to one choice.
And the answer is always "no" unless you want more CP.
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Post by: BrianDavion
just means in chsapter approved 2018 we can expect bike nerfs re points
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Post by: Galas
Yeah is not like Adetus Custodes are in a horrible spot. Jetbikes are too cost efficient and nearly everything else is more expensive than it should. That has a easy fix.
Is not like Orks where many of the problems come from a design standpoint of the actual rules of the models, not the point costs they have.
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Post by: str00dles1
A bike army is just better in everyway. Boring but its the best option with no allies.
Possible there could be a balance for points update in March, as that's the next time they would really touch points now. I couldn't see them leaving it the way it is til end of the Year 2018 for next Chapter approved.
As for the LR its 400 for 2 twin LC and twin HB. 2+ BS and has 6+++ instead of the 5++
For fun throw away games sure, use It. Not even at the semi completive level is it even worth using.
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Post by: carabine
str00dles1 wrote:A bike army is just better in everyway. Boring but its the best option with no allies.
Possible there could be a balance for points update in March, as that's the next time they would really touch points now. I couldn't see them leaving it the way it is til end of the Year 2018 for next Chapter approved.
As for the LR its 400 for 2 twin LC and twin HB. 2+ BS and has 6+++ instead of the 5++
For fun throw away games sure, use It. Not even at the semi completive level is it even worth using.
Where are we getting the march date for points adjustment?
Also the Land Raider used to have both the 5++ and 6+++, this isn't a trade it's a flat out nerf on a unit that needed a buff to justify its value.
Anyone know if bikes have 3 or 4 wounds? I heard the biker captain was 1 wound more than the standard captain so I'm hoping.
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Post by: Astmeister
This thread talked about 4 wound for bikers
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Post by: Daedalus81
Which SHOULD be costed on the weapon itself, which is consistent, but not a huge problem. Otherwise the only thing I can imagine is that they possibly costed it as if it would be in range of the 5++ vexillia? I wish I had a book in front of me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This:
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Post by: str00dles1
Bikes are 4 wounds yes, 6 toughness
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Post by: Nightlord1987
2+ invul for a Bike character? Dayum Boi!
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Max you can get is a 3+, it says on all the things that increase the Saves.
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Post by: Dulahan
Invuls cannot be better than 3+, Ever. That's a core rule.
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Post by: Audustum
 Dulahan wrote:
Invuls cannot be better than 3+, Ever. That's a core rule.
Actually, it's not. GK's still have (expensive) ways to get a 2++.
But Custodes don't have one.
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
Audustum wrote: Dulahan wrote:
Invuls cannot be better than 3+, Ever. That's a core rule.
Actually, it's not. GK's still have (expensive) ways to get a 2++.
But Custodes don't have one.
I would expect that to be a fix in CA. 2++ should not exist/be retired.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
Ah, okay. I only saw the +1 to Invul, and the 3+ invul relic. I know most other invul Stacks are maxes at 3+.
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Post by: Mr. Funktastic
Did GW mention anywhere that the March "Big FAQ 1" they had planned would include points adjustments? I would expect that would be a yearly Chapter Approved thing only.
Given the point values we've seen so far though, I would say only Valoris and the Allarus Custodians and Allarus Vexilus Praetor would need a points decrease. Maybe make Valoris 240 pts like Cawl, Abaddon, and Draigo and each Allarus 5-10 pts cheaper per model. The rest of it seems alright outside of the VLR but then again, Land Raiders have always been way overpriced.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Mr. Funktastic wrote:Did GW mention anywhere that the March "Big FAQ 1" they had planned would include points adjustments? I would expect that would be a yearly Chapter Approved thing only.
Given the point values we've seen so far though, I would say only Valoris and the Allarus Custodians and Allarus Vexilus Praetor would need a points decrease. Maybe make Valoris 240 pts like Cawl, Abaddon, and Draigo and each Allarus 5-10 pts cheaper per model. The rest of it seems alright outside of the VLR but then again, Land Raiders have always been way overpriced.
From the article:
We’ll also use these to address balance issues in the game, so these might include a few changes to rules for overly powerful, or underrepresented units.
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Post by: Mr. Funktastic
The way I read it it sounds like it's just rules although I suppose readjusting points would fall under balance issues. We'll see.
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Post by: Audustum
I think both spears and storm shields (on generics, not characters) need reductions. There's no reason to take a spear over an axe when possible and storm shields are overpaying for their bonus from what I can tell.
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Post by: cuda1179
I prefer spears on most things. They are slightly cheaper, and good against marines' armor.
Definitely axes on characters though.
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Post by: Audustum
So the spear and the axe are actually the same against marines. .93 damage per attack on average. If you're fighting tons of vanilla power armor, might be worth it to save the, what, 2 points per model? Otherwise axe is usually better.
The spear is marginally better against terminators (.03 average over an axe). The axe does better as toughness grows (and the spear stops helping even against 2+'s once the toughness reaches a certain point).
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Post by: tneva82
FAQ's quickly releases after codex doesn't change points. MAYBE big faq does that but that would assume GW has noticed point issues on their internal playtesting after putting codex on print. Unlikely.
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Post by: cuda1179
For those that have the codex I have two quick questions:
Do squads have any kind of "squad leader" or sergeant?
Does a Shield Captain on Jetbike have any options other than the power knife and choosing between the hurricane bolter and Slavo launcher?
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Post by: nordsturmking
cuda1179 wrote:For those that have the codex I have two quick questions:
Do squads have any kind of "squad leader" or sergeant?
Does a Shield Captain on Jetbike have any options other than the power knife and choosing between the hurricane bolter and Slavo launcher?
No to both questions.
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Post by: cuda1179
Well, that makes me sad. Having a sergeant would have been nice for that extra attack. I guess you can fake it by having just one guy per squad take the power knife. This also puts a damper on my idea to have an axe wielding biker.
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Post by: Yodhrin
NZ preorders are up.
The Warden kit has been chopped up for the sprue very nicely. I was expecting to have to do major putty work to these guys after truescaling them(my truescale Marines are Primaris based, which of course means these guys have to be taller still), but the robes are part of the torso halves rather than molded directly on to the legs. That'll also make it easier to convert them using the existing Custodes legs for some variety in pose if you're building a lot of them, since it'll be a matter of trimming & resculpting the existing robe to fit rather than having to sculpt one entirely from scratch.
The Vertus Praetors grow more appealing to my eye every time I see them, and a couple of minutes of crude work in MSPaint to see what they look like without the canards(spoliered for size) cements my decision to buy a couple of boxes - I suspect that my squad's jetbike incarnation will be the one I use most. Now I just have to figure out how to model some appropriate magnetisable Las-pulsers and they can do double-duty in the HH as well.
Overall, if GW keep putting out models like this, having to ignore all the Primarchpalooza timeline advancing nonsense might actually be worth it.
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Post by: Ssgt Carl
cuda1179 wrote:Well, that makes me sad. Having a sergeant would have been nice for that extra attack. I guess you can fake it by having just one guy per squad take the power knife. This also puts a damper on my idea to have an axe wielding biker.
A “squad leader” would not be very fluffy. Actually, it would have been more fluffy if the custodes had no multi figure units. They know how to work together but they are all individuals. It makes sense not to have a relatively low level leader and I’d also say they don’t really need an extra attack.
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Post by: crumby_cataphract
Yodhrin wrote:...
Overall, if GW keep putting out models like this, having to ignore all the Primarchpalooza timeline advancing nonsense might actually be worth it.
See, you make these snide remarks, but the GW that's given us Ad Mech, Harlequins, Ad Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Genstealer Cults, and now 2 flavours of Imperial Knights - all in plastic - is the same GW that realized that the 40k setting had become boring as gak and had the courage to radically alter the plot landscape. Including bringing back Guiliman and the demonic Primarchs and restoring some sense of real narrative and dynamism and excitement to the setting.
40k has never been better than it is now, and curmudgeonly cynics like yourself should really try to appreciate that for a change.
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Post by: Galas
No, you see? He needs to remark that even if he keeps buying like the rest of us, hes superior because he does it being aware that REALLY all of the nuGW sucks.
Is like Tneva82 and FW, in their minds I assume they think they are giving money to a imaginary version of GW that isn't the same company that is doing all those things they critique.
Is the way they have to solve that mental dissasociation between what they say and what they buy.
And I'll add that I have 0 problems with people buying things to GW and using them for whatever they want, even if they really dislike GW. Is the condescending remarks that they write non stop, everywhere ,that indirectly, paint the rest of us as less aware about the true situation of Nu-GW.
And of course this is a discussion forum, you are free to critique GW. And I'm free to debate your critizism.
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Post by: Yodhrin
 crumby_cataphract wrote: Yodhrin wrote:...
Overall, if GW keep putting out models like this, having to ignore all the Primarchpalooza timeline advancing nonsense might actually be worth it.
See, you make these snide remarks, but the GW that's given us Ad Mech, Harlequins, Ad Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Genstealer Cults, and now 2 flavours of Imperial Knights - all in plastic - is the same GW that realized that the 40k setting had become boring as gak and had the courage to radically alter the plot landscape. Including bringing back Guiliman and the demonic Primarchs and restoring some sense of real narrative and dynamism and excitement to the setting.
40k has never been better than it is now, and curmudgeonly cynics like yourself should really try to appreciate that for a change.
Or, respectfully, you could jog right on and stop telling other people what they're allowed to like or dislike.
I mean, were I to take your attitude, I might make the argument that people who weren't able to grasp the idea of an apocalyptic setting that expanded in breadth and depth rather than in time in order to provide the best platform for creative hobbyists to tell their own stories shouldn't have been playing 40K and moaning about GW not spoonfeeding them the one specific kind of narrative such settings are intentionally not set up to provide in the first place. But evidently GW has decided catering to your favoured style is easier for them, so how about you be satisfied with that rather than additionally demanding everyone else also agree with you.
EDIT: And Galas, you can, once again respectfully, pack away that dime-store psychoanalysis of yours in a dark, sun-lacking place as well.
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Post by: Galas
The fun thing, Yodhrin, is that I actually agree with your vision of the Warhammer 40k setting and I too disagree with the new course the narrative has taken. But I don't repeat it in literally ALL of my posts, even when it doesn't make any kind of sense or contributes anything to the discussion.
But you are right. This is entering rule 1# territory and 2#. I apologize. I have jump onto you when this is more of a general discomfort with a group of posters that are very prone to hyperbole, exageration and to spurt out their opinions and then defend themselves from any kind of reply with the "Thats my opinion you white knight!" mantra.
I'll drop this conversation.
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Post by: Yodhrin
See that's the thing, you guys are choosing to read that remark as a mitigation, or an attack, or a complaint. It can equally be read - and was intended - to emphasise a positive sentiment about the models.
If you go to a restaurant with someone and they respond to a dish by saying "I don't normally like [ingredient in dish], but that was excellent", do you have a go at them for mentioning a dislike that you already knew they had, or take it as intended as a more emphatic complement?
Some folk are so keen to jump on people for "being too negative" that you don't even consider alternatives.
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Post by: BrianDavion
I think one can support and both not support a time line expansion at the same thing. the universe was growing a bit stale and something certainly needed to happen. but at the same time, I hope GW continues colouring in all the little nooks and crannies. and I really hope the time line doesn't expand too fast. Battletech got to a point where the timeline advanced so fast I simply could not reckongize the setting any longer
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Post by: Raulengrin
So how about those new Custodes this thread is supposed to be about.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
They are amazing. I just got my Trajann and the codex.
I'm super excited to get my hands on the wardens and jet bikes next!
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Post by: Rolsheen
My wallets about $1000AUD lighter now with new releases, pre-orders and Forge World. I expect another $300-$400 next week
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Post by: BrianDavion
my only problem with the custodes right now is there is no way I can take everything in the range in a 2000 point list 
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Post by: cuda1179
BrianDavion wrote:my only problem with the custodes right now is there is no way I can take everything in the range in a 2000 point list
I feel your pain. When FW finally puts out their 8th edition rules I will have well over 5000 points in Custodes. I can only hope that one day I will be able to field all of them at one time in a megabattle.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Important consideration- do I use the plastic Trajann model as Trajann and use the Ixion Hale model as just a Shield Captain, or vice versa?
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Post by: cuda1179
If you all ready have Trajann, use him as Trajann. If you don't have him yet, and have Ixion Hale, then don't buy Trajann and use Hale as Trajann.
I have Hale, and he will be my Trajann, at least until FW makes Hale rules for 40k.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
cuda1179 wrote:If you all ready have Trajann, use him as Trajann. If you don't have him yet, and have Ixion Hale, then don't buy Trajann and use Hale as Trajann.
I have Hale, and he will be my Trajann, at least until FW makes Hale rules for 40k.
I have both, and actually like both models. It's just a decision to make, like which missiles to put on the Acastus knight.
It is quite handy that Trajann is designed so the lion cloak over his shoulder is entirely optional. If it goes sideways trying to paint that thing, I can just leave it off.
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Post by: cuda1179
The cloak isn't entirely optional. The two hip-armor pieces are not complete and are meant to be covered by the cloak. I guess you could substitute them out for bits from another Custodes model.
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Post by: BrianDavion
cuda1179 wrote:If you all ready have Trajann, use him as Trajann. If you don't have him yet, and have Ixion Hale, then don't buy Trajann and use Hale as Trajann.
I have Hale, and he will be my Trajann, at least until FW makes Hale rules for 40k.
I SINCERLY doubt FW will make 40k rules for a 30k character whose proably dead by Heresy's end
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
cuda1179 wrote:The cloak isn't entirely optional. The two hip-armor pieces are not complete and are meant to be covered by the cloak. I guess you could substitute them out for bits from another Custodes model.
The cloak is not optional on Trajan, but the lion pelt is. Just like the misercordia on the terminators, it just slots right on over other detail.
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Post by: cuda1179
BrianDavion wrote: cuda1179 wrote:If you all ready have Trajann, use him as Trajann. If you don't have him yet, and have Ixion Hale, then don't buy Trajann and use Hale as Trajann.
I have Hale, and he will be my Trajann, at least until FW makes Hale rules for 40k.
I SINCERLY doubt FW will make 40k rules for a 30k character whose proably dead by Heresy's end
LOL, yeah, I know. I can always hope though. I mean, as long as I get rules for my resin Dreadnoughts, I'm a happy man. Throwing in rules for the terminators might happen, might not. Hale is a super-longshot, but I wouldn't complain if he's in there.
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Post by: RedSarge
Forgeworld Custodes jetbikes are NEAT. These GW plastic jetbikes.... omg ad Gloria est infinitum Sanctus deci mucho ausgeseichnet!!!!! That's how I have fallen ill . . I'm such a wretch! I looked upon the magnificence and wept.
Apparently I exalted my own post ... thanks phone.
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Post by: Mandragola
cuda1179 wrote:BrianDavion wrote: cuda1179 wrote:If you all ready have Trajann, use him as Trajann. If you don't have him yet, and have Ixion Hale, then don't buy Trajann and use Hale as Trajann.
I have Hale, and he will be my Trajann, at least until FW makes Hale rules for 40k.
I SINCERLY doubt FW will make 40k rules for a 30k character whose proably dead by Heresy's end
LOL, yeah, I know. I can always hope though. I mean, as long as I get rules for my resin Dreadnoughts, I'm a happy man. Throwing in rules for the terminators might happen, might not. Hale is a super-longshot, but I wouldn't complain if he's in there.
I'll be using Hale as a normal captain with axe and not getting Trajan, I think.
Using Hale as Trajan and Trajan as somebody else would tend to fall foul of WYSIWYG rules at events. It could well be confusing to opponents.
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: madproctologist
Has anyone heard anything about an actual release date for the next IA?
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