I can only hope for the other land Raider variants. Being able to cram 8 custodies in a Crusader would make for a decent deathstar unit. Not to mention hitting on 2+ with hurricane bolters and assault cannons would shred hordes.
ERJAK wrote: Screw fluff if it means I don't have to pay 800 billion dollars to buy a tank from england, wait 18 months for it ship, and then have it melt into a puddle on the way to the FLGS, just to have a second transport option for the custodes.
ERJAK wrote: Screw fluff if it means I don't have to pay 800 billion dollars to buy a tank from england, wait 18 months for it ship, and then have it melt into a puddle on the way to the FLGS, just to have a second transport option for the custodes.
The hyperbole is strong with this one...
It's not as far off as one would hope tbh.
Really?
800 billion dollars for a tank?
18 months to ship?
Melt into a puddle?
I'm pretty sure all of those are massively hyperbolic statements.
ERJAK wrote: Screw fluff if it means I don't have to pay 800 billion dollars to buy a tank from england, wait 18 months for it ship, and then have it melt into a puddle on the way to the FLGS, just to have a second transport option for the custodes.
The hyperbole is strong with this one...
It's not as far off as one would hope tbh.
Really?
800 billion dollars for a tank?
18 months to ship?
Melt into a puddle?
I'm pretty sure all of those are massively hyperbolic statements.
Maybe he's an aussie? I've heard about the crazy aussie prices
Of course they do. When Sigmar... umm, I mean when Girlyman returned, it was evident from then on it's all about pushing back Chaos and reclaiming the Mort... the galaxy. Yes, the galaxy. That's it.
Can't wait to see the Terminator 360s. They look nice enough in the pictures we've got so far. Just dreading the price they'll be asking for three models...
From the way they treat Aussies price wise, you’d think they were in another world entirely...
Uh, maybe not? The way SpaceX is planning pricing for the BFR, shipping to space might actually turn out chaeaper. And that’ll halve again when Skylon starts flying; that one won’t even have to ship stuff to America for loading first….
Seriously though I can definitely understand why people would be less than thrilled to play with resin, especially if they live/play anywhere hot. I've heard stories of people having stuff start melting (more drooping, or sagging really) in their cars on a warm day, or in a hot room.
With how little the FW Custodes vehicles share with the rest of the game and I can understand the frustration too. At least if you don't like Land Raiders you can kitbash up a Repulsor to run with, but you can't really kitbash up a FW Custodes tank.
I actually hope that some of that stuff gets a release in plastic also, looking just as stream lined and futuristic.
I like that the Custodes are kind of a unique vision to what the Imperium was supposed to be in terms of material culture and aesthetic design if the Great Crusade had been completed along with the Imperial webway.
Some people say it clashes with the lore of 40k, but I think its a tragic reminder of how far the Imperium has fallen.
After having read the book, if Custodes don't get access to the FW Dreads I'd be very disappointed. They go out of their way in the book to describe them and how beautiful they are, how powerful and imposing they are, and to mention that they're making more.
They all constantly describe how super human fast they are, with sisters of silence and humans can barely track their movements. If they end up being 5-6" movement I'm gonna laugh decently hard. Lol
Well shoot guess I'm getting about three packs of Allarus then. I'll need the characters and a few units.
Combine with my 6 aquillons and I'm pretty sure that'll mean I can eventually have the option to field a full terminator custodian army, just in case I was feeling my model count was too high playing them normally.
You’ll also be able to use the Allarus Custodians kit to build a Shield Captain to lead your forces, or a Vexillus Praetor, a flag-wielding commander that offers powerful bonuses to nearby units.
So I was right, with that boxed set you can make 2 characters. It makes sense then to allow the terminators to be taken in units of 1.
And yeah, that limited edition Codex is the first time I have thought about buying one
ERJAK wrote: Screw fluff if it means I don't have to pay 800 billion dollars to buy a tank from england, wait 18 months for it ship, and then have it melt into a puddle on the way to the FLGS, just to have a second transport option for the custodes.
The hyperbole is strong with this one...
It's not as far off as one would hope tbh.
Really?
800 billion dollars for a tank?
18 months to ship?
Melt into a puddle?
I'm pretty sure all of those are massively hyperbolic statements.
Maybe he's an aussie? I've heard about the crazy aussie prices
You pay fw models in pounds so if conversation rates are bad on gw models fw can be even cheaper than plastics!
It talks about them being 'superb character assassins', as well as having teleport deepstrike of course.
Whaddya think? Is this actually gonna translate into rules or just some silly headcanon from someone in the marketing team? Also clashes with the 'anti-horde' description we've been given about their grenade launchers.
For SAKE!! I just had a lengthy discussion today at my local GW about severely needing to put a limit on myself buying new things before starting new armies.
Now I need to get a shed load of these termies for both a Custodes force AND a Slaamesh warband.
This release came much sooner than expected after the preview last weekend.
Still no word on getting 30k rules for the new stuff, but most of it can be used as counts as fairly well. Biggest issue is the
weapons on the jetbikes, which is what I'll be buying most of.
Tamereth wrote: This release came much sooner than expected after the preview last weekend.
Still no word on getting 30k rules for the new stuff, but most of it can be used as counts as fairly well. Biggest issue is the
weapons on the jetbikes, which is what I'll be buying most of.
And weapons for terminators. ATM only thing you can really use is the special character and MAYBE the veteran squad depending on weapon loadout there.
Not expecting to get any rules. Well saves my wallet!
GoatboyBeta wrote: Maybe not 30k rules straight away. But when the Talons list gets updated by either a black or red book release I wouldn't be surprised to see them.
I would be shocked to see 30k rules for the new Terminators and Jetbikes. Because while I don't know about the terminators, I'm 90% sure the jetbikes are a 40k era creation in order to have a cheaper to maintain alternative to the Gyrfalcon jetbikes. This can also be seen in how the new bikes have hurricane bolters and Mechanicus symbols on them.
I'm definitely preordering the codex, Valoris, perhaps the terminators, and when they come out, the jetbikes.
Is there a chance that there might be a unit or two that hasn't been shown yet? It seems a bit odd that after the first week of preorders the only thing left to be released is the jetbikes. I guess there is that veterans unit. Perhaps an HQ blister?
I'm really, really, really hoping the Saggitarum Custodes get rules soon for 40k, as they scare the living daylights out of tanks, and simply obliterate light infantry!
They've stated that HQ units besides Valoris come from the Terminator & Custodian Gaurd kits. I would've thought if there was anything else to be released they would have displayed it last weekend.
If we are lucky we may get more of the generic SM stuff like vehicles/fliers in the codex to fill out the army. At least until FW start making 40k rules for their stuff, then the cats out of the bag big-time.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure there's more things they didn't show. Has to be, at least to reasonably fill out a codex. One of each battlefield slot an army does not make.
There's no long term issue there, there's already a fairly substantial Custodes list of units in existence and they said there are plans in some timeline or other to get them rules.
-Spear
-Sword and shield
-Sword and Misericordia(power knife)
If we're lucky we might get spear and shield as an option like the FW Custodes do, it's certainly a viable way to construct the model.
Meanwhile the terminator shield captain seems to have guardian spear and Castellan axe as options. Probably some kinda relic spear in the back of the 'dex too.
Thats not how gw works now. Options bad, easy snap fit good.
Yeah, it has been like that for a while, but this is a proper multipart kit, so I hope it will be different. (I really wish they had done the Primaris characters like this too...)
Grey Knights are in a similar boat with HQ choices, as all of them besides Librarians and the Special Characters are built from plastic power armour/terminator kits or converted, as well as the occasional older finecast scuplt.
They don't have any special options beyond what a regular GK can have, aside from Relics of course.
Spartacus wrote: Grey Knights are in a similar boat with HQ choices, as all of them besides Librarians and the Special Characters are built from plastic power armour/terminator kits or converted, as well as the occasional older finecast scuplt.
They don't have any special options beyond what a regular GK can have, aside from Relics of course.
And yet that is more options than the Primaris characters have...
-Spear
-Sword and shield
-Sword and Misericordia(power knife)
If we're lucky we might get spear and shield as an option like the FW Custodes do, it's certainly a viable way to construct the model.
Meanwhile the terminator shield captain seems to have guardian spear and Castellan axe as options. Probably some kinda relic spear in the back of the 'dex too.
Well, we've all ready been shown Normal Custodes (non terminator) with an ax option, so I'd bet my left nut that the HQ's will have that as an option as well. Perhaps some of them can have the Vexillia as well.
It would be a smart move for GW to make a character upgrade clampack sprue. They've done it for everyone else, why not custodes?
-Spear
-Sword and shield
-Sword and Misericordia(power knife)
If we're lucky we might get spear and shield as an option like the FW Custodes do, it's certainly a viable way to construct the model.
Meanwhile the terminator shield captain seems to have guardian spear and Castellan axe as options. Probably some kinda relic spear in the back of the 'dex too.
Well, we've all ready been shown Normal Custodes (non terminator) with an ax option, so I'd bet my left nut that the HQ's will have that as an option as well. Perhaps some of them can have the Vexillia as well.
It would be a smart move for GW to make a character upgrade clampack sprue. They've done it for everyone else, why not custodes?
definatly be a good thing. being able to clearly diffrentiate HQs from line troops is gonna be important
I'll love Custodes with Spear and Shield... they look so good... :(
But I suppose nobody would take then Sword+Shield. Just give the Sword +1 attack or something.
It's been rumored that Custodes will be an elite army that is more than capable of taking out hordes. There are a few ways that they could do this:
1. More attacks per model
2. Make their shooting weapons have more shots
3. Make it so their damage is never wasted (IE, a 2 damage weapon that wounds once will still kill two one-wound models)
4. have them able to trade in high strength attacks for more, lower strength attacks (kind of like Typhus)
While all of these would help some, I'm willing to bet there will be combination of these.
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
Where have they said this?
From various people on YouTube and forums asking the Forgeworld people at the Open Day.
The new jetbikes are apparently a 40k built alternative for the Gyrfalcon bikes (too valuable to remove from stasis).
I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I don't remember what threads (Sorry. There is genuinely too much going on to remember). But it's been said by multiple people who were at the event.
However, the Orion was explicitly mentioned by FW people as an example of how Custodes can have better mobility in 40k, so there is that to look forward to!
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
It's stated in the heresy campaign books that the Custodes maintain multiple types of jetbike, and that the Gyrfalcon pattern are favoured not in general, but by the specific subset of Custodes that unit represents.
Bullock pattern such as Sammael's bike have also fallen out of use in the imperium at large, and are just as much precious archeotech as the other pattern.
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
Where have they said this?
From various people on YouTube and forums asking the Forgeworld people at the Open Day.
The new jetbikes are apparently a 40k built alternative for the Gyrfalcon bikes (too valuable to remove from stasis).
I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I don't remember what threads (Sorry. There is genuinely too much going on to remember). But it's been said by multiple people who were at the event.
However, the Orion was explicitly mentioned by FW people as an example of how Custodes can have better mobility in 40k, so there is that to look forward to!
Ok thank, I believe you. I'm personally not a fan of FW's Custodes vehicles. But I really want to use their Dreadnoughts and the Saggitarum guard. I hope those will be availible in 40k.
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
It's stated in the heresy campaign books that the Custodes maintain multiple types of jetbike, and that the Gyrfalcon pattern are favoured not in general, but by the specific subset of Custodes that unit represents.
Bullock pattern such as Sammael's bike have also fallen out of use in the imperium at large, and are just as much precious archeotech as the other pattern.
I know they have multiple patterns.
I'm specifically talking about the new jetbikes being 40k BUILT though, due to the fact that they are marked with symbols of the Mechanicus (Also, hurricane bolters points to them being newer creations), unless they retcon them. They wouldn't have that if they were taken from stasis, due to the fact that the Custodes arsenal of the Crusade and Heresy era was produced by bonded tech-clans and sub-contracted techwrights.
Either that or it's GW taking licence with the fluff and doing what they want, which is likely
Edit: Also, I know the Agamatus jetbike units only represent the Gyrfalcon mounted sodalities of the katafraktoi caste, but I think it's best that people not get their hopes up too much for everything being ported. The real reason the Agamatus wouldn't be ported would be due to having access to the heavier Adrathic weapons. Which is the element that is unlikely to be ported according to staff
str00dles1 wrote: did they confirm that FW Heresy Custodes models will all be used in 40k?
Nope. Is just some of the 30k units. Mostly dreads I'd imagine. Apparently the most advanced stuff isn't making the jump (The more advanced jetbikes, Adrathic weapons etc)
Where have they said this?
From various people on YouTube and forums asking the Forgeworld people at the Open Day.
The new jetbikes are apparently a 40k built alternative for the Gyrfalcon bikes (too valuable to remove from stasis).
I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I don't remember what threads (Sorry. There is genuinely too much going on to remember). But it's been said by multiple people who were at the event.
However, the Orion was explicitly mentioned by FW people as an example of how Custodes can have better mobility in 40k, so there is that to look forward to!
Ok thank, I believe you. I'm personally not a fan of FW's Custodes vehicles. But I really want to use their Dreadnoughts and the Saggitarum guard. I hope those will be availible in 40k.
You and me both. I'm scared my Sagittarum and Aquilons won't have rules because they have Adrathic weapons
The adeptus mechanicus existed as far back as just post heresy. No reason that all jetbike tech was lost at the same time either. Bullock pattern are smaller and probably easier to build/maintain than the gyrfalcon, so over time the majority of production could have been on that pattern. Or that the custodes never lost the pattern for jetbikes, with Sableclaw of the dark angels being the last known working jetbike in the astartes arsenals, not period.
Sagitarrum ought to have rules, since their adrastite weapon is just the disintegration gun from the imperial space marine, and index imperial 1 has a statline for that.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The adeptus mechanicus existed as far back as just post heresy. No reason that all jetbike tech was lost at the same time either. Bullock pattern are smaller and probably easier to build/maintain than the gyrfalcon, so over time the majority of production could have been on that pattern. Or that the custodes never lost the pattern for jetbikes, with Sableclaw of the dark angels being the last known working jetbike in the astartes arsenals, not period.
Sagitarrum ought to have rules, since their adrastite weapon is just the disintegration gun from the imperial space marine, and index imperial 1 has a statline for that.
Haha
You misunderstand me I'm just saying you can tell the new jetbikes are 40k CONSTRUCTED due to the Mechanicus markings (I know the Admech existed back then. Well. As the Mechanicum until the Binary Succession solution during the Heresy).
The Custodes wargear has never been given the markings of the Mechanicum before (because they had very little need for help from them).
So for the new jetbikes to be given the cog symbol means that they've had to enlist the Mechanicus' help in returning to production of jetbikes. That's all I mean xD
And yes. The bullocks are much easier to maintain
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure there's more things they didn't show. Has to be, at least to reasonably fill out a codex. One of each battlefield slot an army does not make.
Codex skitarii, codex cult mechanicus, codex harlequins, and especially codex imperial knights all disagree.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure there's more things they didn't show. Has to be, at least to reasonably fill out a codex. One of each battlefield slot an army does not make.
Codex skitarii, codex cult mechanicus, codex harlequins, and especially codex imperial knights all disagree.
If the Custodes codex gets rules for the whole Forgeworld range, then I'm sold. in the same way that I will forever love Forgeworld if the Fires of Cyraxus book allows me to use my Mechanicum models in 40k as well. Having armies that can be used both in Horus Heresy and 40k is the dream!
cuda1179 wrote: It's been rumored that Custodes will be an elite army that is more than capable of taking out hordes. There are a few ways that they could do this:
1. More attacks per model
2. Make their shooting weapons have more shots
3. Make it so their damage is never wasted (IE, a 2 damage weapon that wounds once will still kill two one-wound models)
4. have them able to trade in high strength attacks for more, lower strength attacks (kind of like Typhus)
While all of these would help some, I'm willing to bet there will be combination of these.
Of course apart from 3 all those make them still even better at taking out elite. And 3 also makes them even better vs 3 wound elites. If they make with those mincemeat of hordes imagine how nasty they will be against elite armies!
Anyone want to start speculating on what the Relics, Warlord traits, and stratagems are?
Relics should be relatively predictable. I'm guessing there will be a special sword, shield, spear, and ax. (at least three of those. Perhaps something that lets you deny the witch.
Warlord traits. A bit harder. Likely something that lets you regain command points.
cuda1179 wrote: Anyone want to start speculating on what the Relics, Warlord traits, and stratagems are?
Relics should be relatively predictable. I'm guessing there will be a special sword, shield, spear, and ax. (at least three of those. Perhaps something that lets you deny the witch.
Warlord traits. A bit harder. Likely something that lets you regain command points.
my guess is the regain command points thing will come from Valoris.
I'm mostly concerned about the points translation of FW models to 40k.. The Venerable land raider suffered a 32% points increase (275 to 364) with the shift from 7th to 8th. I'd be fine with that same % with some units like the Coronus (as it would keep the value of 2 Coronus for the same cost as one venerable land raider) but on other units like the Contemptor Galatus and Achillus it would move them over 300 pts making them near unusable without some massive buffs (assuming their stats translate the same as other dreadnoughts did)
For now I'm still Enjoying the Venerable land raider for it's survivability and overwhelming firepower. But with the incomming reintroduction of deep strike I'm wondering how else we can spend the points previously dedicated for transport. Also of concern is the matched play restriction of 50% of models must be deployed on the table.
As of right now I'm still planning on fielding my pair of land raiders (working on couple of Mk IIb with custom printed doors and armor plating) They fit with custodes back when all we had were visions of heresy and the sabertooth games art.
Sadly I'm not enjoying the Allarus Terminators, compared to the Aquilon ones they look like custodes wrapped in more chest and bigger shoulder armor. While the Aquilon look like actually bigger terminators.
Does anyone else think we might see a points drop on custodians/contemptors/land raiders? When chapter approved came out we saw primaris units get a drop in points almost across the board (from lack of use I understand). I'm kinda worried that if we see a points drop it might be slip on the slope of codex creep.
While I'm concerned about creep I can't say I'd be upset with points reduction. Right now my custodes army at max (2k points) was only 16 models (8 units) which is going to make fitting in newer toys in the comming release rather difficult.
we'll likely see points changes as the velixa and sheild captain look like they're becoming independant units and you'll be able to deploy squads of 3. so you might have to tweek your squads some
I could see the troops getting a point or two reduction. I'd have to assume the power knife would get a mild drop too. I could see it happening for the Venerable Land Raiders as well, perhaps 10 or 15 points.
Although I have yet to assemble them, I am using WWI tanks for my Custodes Land Raiders. Heavily converted with Land Raider exhaust, Storm Raven Sponson, Marine hatches and HK missiles, and various bits to make them look Gothic. I all ready did this with my Grey Knights and Space wolves and the results are great, and it's cheaper moneywise to boot.
cuda1179 wrote: I could see the troops getting a point or two reduction. I'd have to assume the power knife would get a mild drop too. I could see it happening for the Venerable Land Raiders as well, perhaps 10 or 15 points.
Although I have yet to assemble them, I am using WWI tanks for my Custodes Land Raiders. Heavily converted with Land Raider exhaust, Storm Raven Sponson, Marine hatches and HK missiles, and various bits to make them look Gothic. I all ready did this with my Grey Knights and Space wolves and the results are great, and it's cheaper moneywise to boot.
cuda1179 wrote: I could see the troops getting a point or two reduction. I'd have to assume the power knife would get a mild drop too. I could see it happening for the Venerable Land Raiders as well, perhaps 10 or 15 points.
Although I have yet to assemble them, I am using WWI tanks for my Custodes Land Raiders. Heavily converted with Land Raider exhaust, Storm Raven Sponson, Marine hatches and HK missiles, and various bits to make them look Gothic. I all ready did this with my Grey Knights and Space wolves and the results are great, and it's cheaper moneywise to boot.
this sounds neat, do you have any pictures?
I sure do. Sorry for the blurriness, my camera isn't great. They come out to be about the same height as a real Landraider, about an inch longer, and about an inch narrower. This is my first attempt at an Imperial WWI Landraider, so it doesn't have all the bling of later ones. My Chaos one was easy to fill with chains, spikes, and blades. As an added bonus, an extra blurry pic of what my GK Razorbacks look like.
Just noticed something lame. Two of the three terminators in the warhammer community posts have the exact same pose. So you'd only get two body positions for custodes terminators.
Does anyone else see that? If I'm right, and if it's not just that these are early shots without the whole range, then all our Custodes guys are going to look very similar.
On the plus side the existing guys are very nice. I've got 5 built and another 10 to go. That's probably enough for a 2k army! I hope they've improved spears so that sword and shield isn't so obviously better, because my existing squad is built with spears.
On the FW stuff, i would be astonished if it wasn't the same as every other FW release ever. GW rules will be in GW books and FW rules in FW books, or sometimes free to download. Obviously FW will want us to be able to use custodes stuff in 40k, so they can sell it to us. Sales > all, and in this case it makes complete sense that they'd bring all their toys with them. And I guess then we'll be able to use the cool FW termies instead of the lame GW ones - if we're rich enough.
I wouldn't say the sword/shield combo is all that much better than the spear. It is by a little, I'll admit that. The spear is still a longer ranger shooter, and allows you to kill vehicles, monsters, and deathguard more easily. Of course, I might have a bias, my main opponent is Death Guard.
As far as the limited poses go, That's the beauty of an elite army. Even with limited poses we only have to see a couple clones.
changemod wrote: Actually I do see one downside, there's no -relatively- cheap HQ for detachment purposes. Marines can take chaplains, liutenants and such.
The Shield-Captain in normal armour would probably be the cheapest you can get - I'll be using the Ixion Hale model for that and Trajann as my second HQ for a Battalion.
changemod wrote: Actually I do see one downside, there's no -relatively- cheap HQ for detachment purposes. Marines can take chaplains, liutenants and such.
Thast why they have changed the min squad of normal Custodes from 5 to 3 (So you can use the other two models for a Shield Captain and the guy with the Vexilla), so at least you can make a Batallion. But yeah Custodes are gonna starve for CP's.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, there won't be any super cheap HQs inside the army for battle-forged purposes.
Well yeah, would never expect truly cheap in the context of this army, but some kinda specialist worth less than a full captain woulda been fairly handy.
Mandragola wrote: Just noticed something lame. Two of the three terminators in the warhammer community posts have the exact same pose. So you'd only get two body positions for custodes terminators.
Does anyone else see that? If I'm right, and if it's not just that these are early shots without the whole range, then all our Custodes guys are going to look very similar.
I think you got that from the picture showing the captain and the same Terminator with and without helmet. There's a third pose on the banner bearer. Three models per box, each with an individual pose.
I'll be wary about the ability to build additional poses out of a second box until I see the sprues, but it doesn't look too bad for the time being. These should be a bit better than the Deathshrouds simply because of the optional character bits and not holding a weapon in two hands that limits Deathshroud poses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, there won't be any super cheap HQs inside the army for battle-forged purposes.
So they said 4 HQ, and each custodes kit will be able to be built into a shield captain. So 4 kits, one on foot, one in terminator armor, one on bike and... what's the fourth? Maybe Dreadnought, but that kits already done.
Grimgold wrote: So they said 4 HQ, and each custodes kit will be able to be built into a shield captain. So 4 kits, one on foot, one in terminator armor, one on bike and... what's the fourth? Maybe Dreadnought, but that kits already done.
The one we already have, Terminators, Jetbikes, and the Veteran Box. The HQ of that one is in the preview, the one with the red "skirt" and white hair.
Grimgold wrote: So they said 4 HQ, and each custodes kit will be able to be built into a shield captain. So 4 kits, one on foot, one in terminator armor, one on bike and... what's the fourth? Maybe Dreadnought, but that kits already done.
Number 4 is the captain general valoris kit.
Interestingly, no Tribune so I guess you just say that your Shield Captain is one of the tribunes if you want.
Mandragola wrote: Just noticed something lame. Two of the three terminators in the warhammer community posts have the exact same pose. So you'd only get two body positions for custodes terminators.
Does anyone else see that? If I'm right, and if it's not just that these are early shots without the whole range, then all our Custodes guys are going to look very similar.
I think you got that from the picture showing the captain and the same Terminator with and without helmet. There's a third pose on the banner bearer. Three models per box, each with an individual pose.
I'll be wary about the ability to build additional poses out of a second box until I see the sprues, but it doesn't look too bad for the time being. These should be a bit better than the Deathshrouds simply because of the optional character bits and not holding a weapon in two hands that limits Deathshroud poses.
Yes, I saw those three guys in that shot and the big picture of the army in last week's post. But as you say, the standard bearer has a 3rd pose so it ought to be ok.
Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
I think the arrangement will be:
HQs Shield Captains (Bike, Termi, Custodes armour)
Captain General
Elites
Termiantors
Contemptor
Vexilla (Terminator, both Custodian Unit Variants)
Troops
Custodian Guard
Axe Guard (though these guys could be a veteran unit and run in the Elites as well, GW does seem to like to load up the Elites slot these days)
FA Jet Bikes
HS Land Raider
Not an extensive army, but at the same time it's not horrible either. Basically it's what I' expect out of a smaller faction like this, and it feels like it should work well enough even without F options.
That said, FW options would definitely be welcome, and I expect at minimum we'll be seeing the Deadnoughts, and the gun carrying Custodes, and if they're really generous we'll get the tanks too.
changemod wrote: Actually I do see one downside, there's no -relatively- cheap HQ for detachment purposes. Marines can take chaplains, liutenants and such.
Thast why they have changed the min squad of normal Custodes from 5 to 3 (So you can use the other two models for a Shield Captain and the guy with the Vexilla), so at least you can make a Batallion. But yeah Custodes are gonna starve for CP's.
Hmm, maybe, but honestly considering this is an army where you expect troops and even hqs to get work done, you can take two battalions without feeling like you had much of a tax, at least hopefully.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Honestly, did no one read the original announcement?
Finally, if you’ve already got a sizeable collection of Forge World Legio Custodes, rules are on their way for you to use your favourite units in Warhammer 40,000, in addition to the huge range of new plastic kits.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Honestly, did no one read the original announcement?
Finally, if you’ve already got a sizeable collection of Forge World Legio Custodes, rules are on their way for you to use your favourite units in Warhammer 40,000, in addition to the huge range of new plastic kits.
He's wanting the new plastic kits in 30k, not the 30k stuff in 40k.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Honestly, did no one read the original announcement?
Finally, if you’ve already got a sizeable collection of Forge World Legio Custodes, rules are on their way for you to use your favourite units in Warhammer 40,000, in addition to the huge range of new plastic kits.
That is not what they are asking for.
They know you are getting rules for the 30k models in 40k but they want rules to use the new 40k model s in 30k.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Honestly, did no one read the original announcement?
Finally, if you’ve already got a sizeable collection of Forge World Legio Custodes, rules are on their way for you to use your favourite units in Warhammer 40,000, in addition to the huge range of new plastic kits.
Of course I was asking for 30k rules...This deals with reverse. I'm looking for 30k rules for plastic models as without them plastic models are 100% useless for me with zero reason to buy them.
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WrentheFaceless wrote: I don't think time travel works in reverse in the Warhammer universe, not sure why 30k custodies would have 40k stuff
Except 40k fluff is basically little innovation in tech. Virtually every tech in 40k existed in 30k. There's no reason to think these are some weird new invention rather than just more stuff custodians had in 30k.
Fluffwise 30k is supposed to have MORE tech around than 40k. That's been one of the defining cores of 40k fluff since beginning.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Honestly, did no one read the original announcement?
Finally, if you’ve already got a sizeable collection of Forge World Legio Custodes, rules are on their way for you to use your favourite units in Warhammer 40,000, in addition to the huge range of new plastic kits.
Of course I was asking for 30k rules...This deals with reverse. I'm looking for 30k rules for plastic models as without them plastic models are 100% useless for me with zero reason to buy them.
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WrentheFaceless wrote: I don't think time travel works in reverse in the Warhammer universe, not sure why 30k custodies would have 40k stuff
Except 40k fluff is basically little innovation in tech. Virtually every tech in 40k existed in 30k. There's no reason to think these are some weird new invention rather than just more stuff custodians had in 30k.
Fluffwise 30k is supposed to have MORE tech around than 40k. That's been one of the defining cores of 40k fluff since beginning.
Which they've taken great strides to kill with Caw l(thankfully, how many times were we supposed to take 'oh we just happened to find this STC' or 'what are you talking about, we've ALWAYS had these!' seriously?)
FW don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by removing any reason to buy their stuff, they're just doing 40k a favour by allowing use of 30k stuff there, to get Custodes off the ground a little faster as an army.
Jetbike Shield-Captains - yeah! He can joust with my Eldar Autarch
No reason except different rules so done smartly the units serve different role. Also some people(like me) prefer to spend bit more for superior looking models as bulk of army.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Dude, they said the 30K stuff would get 40K rules with this release. Relax.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah it's looking more like that. Wonder why GW doesn't want to sell more models by telling FW guys to come up with rules.
Probably for the same reason why FW doesn't want to sell many of their models (such as the Mechanicum stuff) by providing them 40K rules. They hate money, I guess? Though in this case it is less stupid, as there are so many more 40K players than 30K players, so that's not that many lost sales. But stupid nevertheless.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah it's looking more like that. Wonder why GW doesn't want to sell more models by telling FW guys to come up with rules.
Probably for the same reason why FW doesn't want to sell many of their models (such as the Mechanicum stuff) by providing them 40K rules. They hate money, I guess? Though in this case it is less stupid, as there are so many more 40K players than 30K players, so that's not that many lost sales. But stupid nevertheless.
Or maybe GW is too affraid of providing rules for superior game least people realize just how badly 8th ed rules suck in terms of balance and playability.
I'm curious how you visually differentiate the Shield captains from other Custodes given they are all made from the same(highly ornate) kits. Is it the cloaks? Because in that case a lot of people with existing collections may find they have gone from no HQ choice, to way to many HQ choices
tneva82 wrote: Yeah it's looking more like that. Wonder why GW doesn't want to sell more models by telling FW guys to come up with rules.
Probably for the same reason why FW doesn't want to sell many of their models (such as the Mechanicum stuff) by providing them 40K rules. They hate money, I guess? Though in this case it is less stupid, as there are so many more 40K players than 30K players, so that's not that many lost sales. But stupid nevertheless.
Or maybe GW is too affraid of providing rules for superior game least people realize just how badly 8th ed rules suck in terms of balance and playability.
Yeah, FW is manna gifted directly from God to the mouths of the true believers, we have eard that like a hundred times allready.
EnTyme wrote: Anybody else getting the feeling that given the horde-heavy meta, Custodes are going to seriously under-perform their fluff?
Custodes are gonna have a hard time in any kind of meta. They will lack numbers to table a enemy army unless they are other ultra-elite army. They'll lack numbers obviously to table horde armies. They'll lack numbers to win the objetive game, etc...
But look just how beautifull they are. They will be a hard army to play unless they have rules as busted as the Custode's rules for HH.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious how you visually differentiate the Shield captains from other Custodes given they are all made from the same(highly ornate) kits. Is it the cloaks? Because in that case a lot of people with existing collections may find they have gone from no HQ choice, to way to many HQ choices
Cloaks and swords. I'll say "And a fancy helmet" but Custodes allready have the fancier helmets of all the Galaxy, even more fancier than Dire Avengers.
Does anyone know if this particular model is a new one? Or is it a possible variant from the Prospero box? Or a forgeworld model? Despite my interest in the custodes, I wasn't paying attention much to 40k and GW during 7th edition when they were introduced.
warboss wrote: Does anyone know if this particular model is a new one? Or is it a possible variant from the Prospero box? Or a forgeworld model? Despite my interest in the custodes, I wasn't paying attention much to 40k and GW during 7th edition when they were introduced.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Dude, they said the 30K stuff would get 40K rules with this release. Relax.
Wrong way round dude He's talking about 30k rules for the new stuff (no chance)
Looks about right... although was expecting the terminators to be more expensive honestly. Hopefully jetbikes will be about 30 pounds too.
Oh, the terminators are 5 pounds cheaper than the Deathsrouds ones! And they will have more variety of weapons, customization, etc... great!
40€ instead of 45€. Thats nice. (Damm you GW, 30 pounds aren't 40€! Glad I can buy from UK)
And with those prices I'm glad I bought two Triumvirates of the Imperium and sold 2 Cawls, 1 Greyfax and 1 Celestine to basically have 1 Celestine and 1 Greyfax for 5€. (Plus, the box and the art are very nice)
So, uh, the terminator/veterans have their traditional gun-halberds and they also have some sort of wrist gun too? Do they combine shots like the Gauntles of Ultramar or something?
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Dude, they said the 30K stuff would get 40K rules with this release. Relax.
Anxiety is warranted. It was said that "some" units would get rules and they were "on the way". I do not like either of these qualifiers. Also FW does not have the best track record of well priced rules compared to GW right now (looking at you contemptor).
changemod wrote: The wording on the Castellan axe info interests me: Higher strength, worse AP. "ideal for cleaving heretics in half".
If it's S8 it could be really useful, if it's S7 then it's not really handy over a S6 weapon in most scenarios.
Yeah, I'm hoping that it is St 8. If Valoris's special ax is St. 10, then I think there might be a good chance. At the very least there is a chance of a relic version.
Mr_Rose wrote: So, uh, the terminator/veterans have their traditional gun-halberds and they also have some sort of wrist gun too? Do they combine shots like the Gauntles of Ultramar or something?
changemod wrote: The wording on the Castellan axe info interests me: Higher strength, worse AP. "ideal for cleaving heretics in half".
If it's S8 it could be really useful, if it's S7 then it's not really handy over a S6 weapon in most scenarios.
Yeah, I'm hoping that it is St 8. If Valoris's special ax is St. 10, then I think there might be a good chance. At the very least there is a chance of a relic version.
S8 is cool but at the cost of worse AP? Kinda lessens its power at killing vehicles which is what we need, especially as it still only does D3 damage (not confirmed, but Valoris's mega axe still does D3...). Will all depend on the points costs I suppose. I still foresee taking the majority of my dudes with Shields in order to survive at least one round of decent shooting, the sentinel blade brings so much to the table.
changemod wrote: The wording on the Castellan axe info interests me: Higher strength, worse AP. "ideal for cleaving heretics in half".
If it's S8 it could be really useful, if it's S7 then it's not really handy over a S6 weapon in most scenarios.
Yeah, I'm hoping that it is St 8. If Valoris's special ax is St. 10, then I think there might be a good chance. At the very least there is a chance of a relic version.
S8 is cool but at the cost of worse AP? Kinda lessens its power at killing vehicles which is what we need, especially as it still only does D3 damage (not confirmed, but Valoris's mega axe still does D3...). Will all depend on the points costs I suppose. I still foresee taking the majority of my dudes with Shields in order to survive at least one round of decent shooting, the sentinel blade brings so much to the table.
Yes exactly. I hope GW makes the spear a viable option.
Mr_Rose wrote: So, uh, the terminator/veterans have their traditional gun-halberds and they also have some sort of wrist gun too? Do they combine shots like the Gauntles of Ultramar or something?
They're Ballistus Grenade Launchers
we know what those'll do? damn, this release has been pretty leak free.
Mr_Rose wrote: So, uh, the terminator/veterans have their traditional gun-halberds and they also have some sort of wrist gun too? Do they combine shots like the Gauntles of Ultramar or something?
They're Ballistus Grenade Launchers
we know what those'll do? damn, this release has been pretty leak free.
Nah. There's been a lot of supposed leaks on FB. But I'm chugging my salt. We'll know by tomorrow if the leaks are real
If not, doesn't change much.
And nah, no rules for those launchers. Just horde killer stuff and krak I'd say :p
I had a feeling they might bring the old 7th ed. formation back as the Custodes faction bonus, which I think used to be re-roll invuln saves of 1. +1 to invulns is not quite as awesome but decent if true.
Also makes full storm shield squads a bit less appealing again, when spearmen get a 4+ invuln anyway.
DaemonJellybaby wrote: The ForgeWorld guys only heard about doing the 30k -> 40k Custodes rules when we did, apparently someone in Community got carried away...
Spartacus wrote: I had a feeling they might bring the old 7th ed. formation back as the Custodes faction bonus, which I think used to be re-roll invuln saves of 1. +1 to invulns is not quite as awesome but decent if true.
Also makes full storm shield squads a bit less appealing again, when spearmen get a 4+ invuln anyway.
I was thinking this too, but it does still seem significant if you look at it as a percentage. Innate spears are 50% chance to negate with that bonus. Shields are 66.6%.
If Terminators are 4++ innately and become 3++ then that's huge too though.
Personally I'll keep using swords on troops anyway cause they're infinitely cooler looking.
I'm okay with that army wide rule. Hell, those Stratagems are very interesting. Turning all your terminators into single mad squads would allow you to hide quite a few characters as you run up.
From the looks of it, there will be a better platform to put the Custodes Vexilla on in the form of the Vexillus Praetor. Which kinda allows me some freedom with my squads. That is an extra Sentinel Blade for me. I hope they improve the Custodes Guardian Spear too. I don't want all Swords.
casvalremdeikun wrote: From the looks of it, there will be a better platform to put the Custodes Vexilla on in the form of the Vexillus Praetor. Which kinda allows me some freedom with my squads. That is an extra Sentinel Blade for me. I hope they improve the Custodes Guardian Spear too. I don't want all Swords.
the only issue with the spear is losing the save. if you can get a 4++ save irregardless the guardian spear might be worth while. which means you'll have a case of when deploying custdoes as a single unit in a soup list you take sheilds. whereas when fighting as part of a army, spears
rybackstun wrote: I've got everything ready to get through my LGS when the Pre-orders drop including 2 sets of the Termies. I'm super excited for this release!
Same. Looking at 2 sets of termies and jetbikes, 1 of the rest for starters.
rybackstun wrote: I've got everything ready to get through my LGS when the Pre-orders drop including 2 sets of the Termies. I'm super excited for this release!
Same. Looking at 2 sets of termies and jetbikes, 1 of the rest for starters.
yeah, two sets of termies here as well. one set'll be used to make HQs. make a HQ and banner bearer and then have a 4 man squad I'm thinking
also thinking I need to figure out a good HQ to attach to my sisters of silence.
rybackstun wrote: I've got everything ready to get through my LGS when the Pre-orders drop including 2 sets of the Termies. I'm super excited for this release!
Same. Looking at 2 sets of termies and jetbikes, 1 of the rest for starters.
yeah, two sets of termies here as well. one set'll be used to make HQs. make a HQ and banner bearer and then have a 4 man squad I'm thinking
also thinking I need to figure out a good HQ to attach to my sisters of silence.
Grayfax or another Hereticus Inquisitor is a thematically good choice. After reading the Emperor's Legion I hope the Null Maidens are included in the Adeptus Custodes book though.
Interestingly 40k Facebook page, replying to people asking about start collecting Custodes , refers them to the Talons box set, which contains Sisters.
In both 30 and 40k fluff, both Custodes and Sisters recognise they complement each other. A pure 40k Custodes army would have no anti psychic ability for example.
I'm thinking an ally rule that allows sisters with no penalty or they are put in as an Elite choice? A pure sisters army with no new options would be pretty terrible IMO game wise.
From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
rybackstun wrote: I've got everything ready to get through my LGS when the Pre-orders drop including 2 sets of the Termies. I'm super excited for this release!
Same. Looking at 2 sets of termies and jetbikes, 1 of the rest for starters.
yeah, two sets of termies here as well. one set'll be used to make HQs. make a HQ and banner bearer and then have a 4 man squad I'm thinking
also thinking I need to figure out a good HQ to attach to my sisters of silence.
Grayfax or another Hereticus Inquisitor is a thematically good choice. After reading the Emperor's Legion I hope the Null Maidens are included in the Adeptus Custodes book though.
I'd like to see them included, but 1: it's adeptus costodes not talons of the emperor. 2: surely GW'd have said something about it now.
My GUESS is GW is hoping to make the null maidens their own army, eventually.
DaemonJellybaby wrote: The ForgeWorld guys only heard about doing the 30k -> 40k Custodes rules when we did, apparently someone in Community got carried away...
Woah. Where'd you see this?
I admit that its second-hand information, but its is from a very reliable friend.
The FW Custodes are definately getting done, but not for February.
Not sure I'd call the price for the Terminators ok, but I guess I can live with it since I'm not likely to need all that many.
I wonder what the dice will look like. GW's gotten awfully creative with those lately. Regardless of that, it's good to see there will be Custodes dice.
tneva82 wrote: Initially was excited for this release but with no word about 30k rules for these guess there's no immediate plans. Interest going down fast. At least that's money saved!
Dude, they said the 30K stuff would get 40K rules with this release. Relax.
What good that is for me? 40k rules are 100% useless for me. No use whatsoever. Garbage, trash. Only use I can think of for 40k rules would be to use the paper to start up fire while camping but I'm preeeetty sure there's cheaper methods for that.
Are you just trying to make joke or why you ignore what I wrote? Relevant part bolded.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Interestingly 40k Facebook page, replying to people asking about start collecting Custodes , refers them to the Talons box set, which contains Sisters.
In both 30 and 40k fluff, both Custodes and Sisters recognise they complement each other. A pure 40k Custodes army would have no anti psychic ability for example.
I'm thinking an ally rule that allows sisters with no penalty or they are put in as an Elite choice? A pure sisters army with no new options would be pretty terrible IMO game wise.
It's not really that interesting when you think about it.
It's a discount box. $160 USD for a set of Custodes, a Land Raider, a Contemptor, a squad of Sisters of Silence, and a Rhino.
Priced out individually:
$60 for the Custodes
$60 for the Contemptor
$74.25 for the Land Raider
It's $194.25 for the Custodes portion alone.
$40 for the Sisters of Silence
$37.25 for the Rhino
Grand total for the boxed set? $271.50
Talons of the Emperor saves you a whopping $111.50, not including sales tax. Even factoring in that you might not want the Sisters of Silence or the Rhino?
You can sell them on.
You might only want a single Contemptor(or none) so you can sell that on if you want too.
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Geifer wrote: Not sure I'd call the price for the Terminators ok, but I guess I can live with it since I'm not likely to need all that many.
I wonder what the dice will look like. GW's gotten awfully creative with those lately. Regardless of that, it's good to see there will be Custodes dice.
What were the prices? I refuse to give Naftka clickthroughs.
Geifer wrote: Not sure I'd call the price for the Terminators ok, but I guess I can live with it since I'm not likely to need all that many.
I wonder what the dice will look like. GW's gotten awfully creative with those lately. Regardless of that, it's good to see there will be Custodes dice.
What were the prices? I refuse to give Naftka clickthroughs.
Geifer wrote: Not sure I'd call the price for the Terminators ok, but I guess I can live with it since I'm not likely to need all that many.
I wonder what the dice will look like. GW's gotten awfully creative with those lately. Regardless of that, it's good to see there will be Custodes dice.
What were the prices? I refuse to give Naftka clickthroughs.
Awesome.
That'd put us at:
$40 for the Codex
$15 for Datacards.
$20 for Dice
$35 for Trajann.
$50 for the Allarus
$35 for Cypher(the price bracket for Trajann and Cypher is the 20GBP to 22.50GBP price bracket)
$22.25 or thereabouts for Greyfax.
$50 for Celestine(same reasons as to why Cypher is $35)
$60 for Guilliman(price bracket is an exact match for a Grey Knights Strike Squad)
Compared to normal terminators they will be slightly better at shooting, have twice as many wounds, tougher, much better invulnerable, same strength but hit on 2+ rather than 4+, and have more attacks.
I can definitely see a unit of three of these guys deepstriking and being a major headache for the enemy. You'd either have to commit a good portion of your army to stopping them or let them do what they want.
I'm looking forward to seeing if the leaked detachment upgrade invulnerable save boost is real, and what all it'll apply to. Be kinda neat if the land raider got it.
Also, have we established a better word for the detachment faction buff than CT equivalent? I want something snappier.
Edit: well, my timing was amazing on that. Kinda odd that dreadnoughts don't seem to get the invulnerable boost, that makes custodes the first to be even more limited than normal SM, but obj secures on every infantry and biker unit does a good job helping make up for their lack of models.
SilverAlien wrote: I'm looking forward to seeing if the leaked detachment upgrade invulnerable save boost is real...
You mean this?
The Emperor’s Chosen gives every Infantry and Biker unit in a pure Adeptus Custodes Detachment +1 to their invulnerable saves, to a maximum of 3+. In practice, this means that none of your units, including Custodian Guard, will ever have worse than a 4+ invulnerable save. Combine this with the high Toughness and Wounds characteristics of Adeptus Custodes units, and your army just got a lot more durable, particularly against the kind of heavy weapons – lascannons, krak missiles and Dreadnought power fists – that previously presented a more substantial threat to the Adeptus Custodes.
BrookM wrote: From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
Actually reading their "codex" from 7th edition they are much numerous than the Custodes. They have been reformed and since the Heresy have been... increasing their numbers. The number they give in that book is "tenths of thousands". But I agree that by their own nature, they are too "Niche" of an army to work as a standalone. They should be mixed with the Custodes.
Sworn Guardians is probably the most interesting rule of the bunch, particularly on the bikers. Emperor's Chosen is neat, but seems pretty unnecessary. Shouldn't they have just buffed or renamed Aegis? Good rule though; curious what it will do to the Spear vs Sword/Board choice.
Ok then. Spear custodes. The trade of a 3++ for a 5++ wasn't worth the extra shooting power and +1 strenght in meele. But the difference between 3++ and 4++ is much more palatable.
+1 INV confirmed true. The deepstrike Stratagem will be incredible once we get confirmed FW Rules. I wanna deep strike 2 Telemon with fists more than anything.
Cephalobeard wrote: +1 INV confirmed true. The deepstrike Stratagem will be incredible once we get confirmed FW Rules. I wanna deep strike 2 Telemon with fists more than anything.
A Galatus would be good with that too: Drop in a contemptor with a shield and watch it suck up a wall of firepower.
Loving what I'm seeing so far at least this makes the choice between spears and swords+boards an actual difficult decision. Hope they unveil some anti-armor/anti-flyer options soon.
Warhammer Live is going to have Friday's [probably Thursday since Warhammer Live is likely leaving for Vegas on Friday] Battle Report as Custodes VS Thousand Sons (the latter having their first advance preview of the codex during the battle).
Galas wrote: Ok then. Spear custodes. The trade of a 3++ for a 5++ wasn't worth the extra shooting power and +1 strenght in meele. But the difference between 3++ and 4++ is much more palatable.
Galas wrote: Ok then. Spear custodes. The trade of a 3++ for a 5++ wasn't worth the extra shooting power and +1 strenght in meele. But the difference between 3++ and 4++ is much more palatable.
And they now hit on 2+ when shooting.
You are right, I didn't noticed that. Yeah, now Spear-Custodes are a legitimate choice vs Sword+Shield.
BrookM wrote: From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
Let me quote Watchers of the Throne:
He is calling his daughters home.
The signal has been flipped, and by the end of it we have Sisters of Silence back on Terra, but not under the Telepathica (apparently the Telepathica dropped the ball there back during the events with the Beast and the current High Lord even laments that fact).
Biggest thing for me is that that minimum unit size of five has been dropped to three, as predicted. I might just get to take a battalion like that and still go crazy on Terminators. This change also happens to go well with my existing Custodes.
Edit: *Actually it's Godstrike. I think GW has finally done it. I'm seeing things and can't read their names straight anymore...
Biggest thing for me is that that minimum unit size of five has been dropped to three, as predicted. I might just get to take a battalion like that and still go crazy on Terminators. This change also happens to go well with my existing Custodes.
Biggest thing for me is that that minimum unit size of five has been dropped to three, as predicted. I might just get to take a battalion like that and still go crazy on Terminators. This change also happens to go well with my existing Custodes.
Edit: *Actually it's Godstrike. I think GW has finally done it. I'm seeing things and can't read their names straight anymore...
You're not alone. But with this passage before...
It’s something of a tradition of the Adeptus Custodes to deliver golden death from the doors of an equally golden Land Raider. From Golden Light They Come, on the other hand, opens up new deployment options for your Custodian Guard, as well as other units in your army.
I'm pretty glad to have 10 Custodian Guard on sprues at home. I'd been meaning to put them together with shields but couldn't bring myself to, as I prefer the spears so much.
I'm curious to see how much space the terminators take up in a land raider. Actually it might be that the best use of the LR is as a place to deploy all your characters at the start of the game, to reduce the number of drops you have and impove your chances of going first. Alternatively, if the standards really do give penalties to shoot at nearby units, you'll obviously want them deployed.
This could be quite a fun army all round. Now looking forward to seeing what FW brings to the table.
Edit: *Actually it's Godstrike. I think GW has finally done it. I'm seeing things and can't read their names straight anymore...
You're not alone. But with this passage before...
It’s something of a tradition of the Adeptus Custodes to deliver golden death from the doors of an equally golden Land Raider. From Golden Light They Come, on the other hand, opens up new deployment options for your Custodian Guard, as well as other units in your army.
... it's forgivable I guess.
Yeah. Too much gold in one place. And I say that as the proud owner of a golden Baneblade.
I look forward to what they have in the way of alternative color schemes in the codex. I don't have a genuine golden army yet so that's actually my go to choice at the moment, but if something else were to catch my eye...
I mean, like the Inquisition Custodes are as Imperial as it gets so black, white, red and gold always work. I'd hate to see them become even more like Marines with every color of the rainbow making it into the official background. It would be cool get get some variety with a decent background explanation, though.
Mandragola wrote: I'm pretty glad to have 10 Custodian Guard on sprues at home. I'd been meaning to put them together with shields but couldn't bring myself to, as I prefer the spears so much.
Same here. I couldn't bring myself to assemble mine for the dying days of 7th ed and didn't trust GW enough to make the Index (or Talons of the Emprah) the definitive rule source for Custodes.
I'm itching to assemble my models, but it seems a bit rash so close to the codex release. At least it looks like I don't have to feel stupid for choosing spears over paddles and shields on the couple of models I did assemble.
Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
No, the stratagem says it can only be used once per battle and you can argue that the arrival is when you 'use' the stratagem so only two could arrive by the stratagem no matter how many you put in reserve.
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
The stratagem specifically mentions once per game (so two units max).
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
No because it states you can only do it once.
It's quite good but not game-breaking. 9" charges are very difficult, after all. It will let you get off a good round of shooting with spears though.
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
it says it must be used before battle and can only be used once.
LunarSol wrote: Sworn Guardians is probably the most interesting rule of the bunch, particularly on the bikers. Emperor's Chosen is neat, but seems pretty unnecessary. Shouldn't they have just buffed or renamed Aegis? Good rule though; curious what it will do to the Spear vs Sword/Board choice.
Emperor's Chosen is the rule for when the army is battleforged. That's why it's seperate
changemod wrote: It's important to know if the terminators have a base 4++ though, because that'd be a big deal.
Leak guy says they have a 5++ (Despite Cataphractii armour)
Which goes up to 4++
Rumor for the missile variant of the jetbike: Duel firing modes. Either heavy1 St.8, AP4, D6 damager, or HeavyD3, st7, Ap1
Looks like a legitimate vehicle hunting pack. I'd like to know what their lances do since their axes are stength8. My guess is +1 strength, increased damage on the charge.
BrookM wrote: From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
Actually reading their "codex" from 7th edition they are much numerous than the Custodes. They have been reformed and since the Heresy have been... increasing their numbers. The number they give in that book is "tenths of thousands". But I agree that by their own nature, they are too "Niche" of an army to work as a standalone. They should be mixed with the Custodes.
Whilst I think its important that we have something other than an Imperial or Chaos Dex next - there is no reason not to make Sisters of Silence a full army in the same way as Custodes or also started with a single unit.
If there are tens of thousands of them - well thats way more than any snowflake Marine Chapter.
Personally I would prefer Sisters of Battle fist but I would not be suprised by a SOS army / Codex now.
WrentheFaceless wrote: I hope there is some super salty Eldar out there that Imperium gets Ob Sec jet bikes and they dont
Yeah... me
This is all so sweet, Im super glad I magnetised all of my Custodes weapons.
On a side note - theres a dude on Bolter & Chainsword talking about taking Celestine to give all his Custodes a further +1 invuln, so spears with 3++. Her rule only works on SoB right? I can't find anything to say otherwise but no one is correcting him, and he has talked about it twice. I also recall seeing someone else describe a similar idea using her.
Cephalobeard wrote: +1 INV confirmed true. The deepstrike Stratagem will be incredible once we get confirmed FW Rules. I wanna deep strike 2 Telemon with fists more than anything.
A Galatus would be good with that too: Drop in a contemptor with a shield and watch it suck up a wall of firepower.
That's the first thing I'm gonna do xD Get a pumped up Space Wolf sword & board dread on the table without it having to walk all the way. I find the Galatus to be an incredible looking model so this would be an awesome excuse to pick it up
WrentheFaceless wrote: I hope there is some super salty Eldar out there that Imperium gets Ob Sec jet bikes and they dont
Yeah... me
This is all so sweet, Im super glad I magnetised all of my Custodes weapons.
On a side note - theres a dude on Bolter & Chainsword talking about taking Celestine to give all his Custodes a further +1 invuln, so spears with 3++. Her rule only works on SoB right? I can't find anything to say otherwise but no one is correcting him, and he has talked about it twice. I also recall seeing someone else describe a similar idea using her.
yeah he's wrong - St C Won;t help them in any way since they are not Guard, Sisters or Ministorium
WrentheFaceless wrote: I hope there is some super salty Eldar out there that Imperium gets Ob Sec jet bikes and they dont
Yeah... me
This is all so sweet, Im super glad I magnetised all of my Custodes weapons.
On a side note - theres a dude on Bolter & Chainsword talking about taking Celestine to give all his Custodes a further +1 invuln, so spears with 3++. Her rule only works on SoB right? I can't find anything to say otherwise but no one is correcting him, and he has talked about it twice. I also recall seeing someone else describe a similar idea using her.
Not only does the +1 only work on SoB, but the 6++ only works on astra militarum and adetus ministorum units. Your guy needs his eyes checked.
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Guyver 3 wrote: I’d guess a mortal wound on a 4+ with the lance for hammer of wrath
Please let them be good please let them be good please let them be good...
They're amazing and I want them, but I can only justify includong them in my budget if they're good enough to take to adepticon.
BrookM wrote: From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
Actually reading their "codex" from 7th edition they are much numerous than the Custodes. They have been reformed and since the Heresy have been... increasing their numbers. The number they give in that book is "tenths of thousands". But I agree that by their own nature, they are too "Niche" of an army to work as a standalone. They should be mixed with the Custodes.
Whilst I think its important that we have something other than an Imperial or Chaos Dex next - there is no reason not to make Sisters of Silence a full army in the same way as Custodes or also started with a single unit.
If there are tens of thousands of them - well thats way more than any snowflake Marine Chapter.
Personally I would prefer Sisters of Battle fist but I would not be suprised by a SOS army / Codex now.
The reason I believe Sisters of Silence can't work is because they have the Grey Knight problem to the extreme. They can't be balanced both agaisn't a heavy Psyker army and a non-psyker army. Agaisnt things like Tau or Necrons they will be overpaying for a innate-antipsychic defense that they aren't gonna use.
Is not a "fluff" reason for them to not be their stand alone faction, but a gameplay reason.
BrookM wrote: From a fluff POV the Sisters of Silence are quite understrength and have been cut off / hidden away from the Imperium for millennia, fighting their own war against heresy and psykers from the shadows until someone flipped the Sister-signal and had them all regroup on Terra.
Actually reading their "codex" from 7th edition they are much numerous than the Custodes. They have been reformed and since the Heresy have been... increasing their numbers. The number they give in that book is "tenths of thousands". But I agree that by their own nature, they are too "Niche" of an army to work as a standalone. They should be mixed with the Custodes.
And the book Watchers of the Throne, mentions that most of that number was scattered through out the galaxy for the most part forgotten by the Imperium at large. Valoris had been breaking the rules for a while though and sending Custodians out to gather the Sisters so he could properly reform the Talons.
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
No, the stratagem says it can only be used once per battle and you can argue that the arrival is when you 'use' the stratagem so only two could arrive by the stratagem no matter how many you put in reserve.
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
The stratagem specifically mentions once per game (so two units max).
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
No because it states you can only do it once.
It's quite good but not game-breaking. 9" charges are very difficult, after all. It will let you get off a good round of shooting with spears though.
Audustum wrote: Uhhh, so that deep strike strat is already broken I think? It's 1CP/3CP but deployment is normally considered "before the battle" so you could just use it unlimited times at 1CP, right?
it says it must be used before battle and can only be used once.
I just saw some leaks from someone (on facebook but they have been right about the other things) saying the custodes aquila guy gives a fearless bubble to imperium and some other effect, one of which was rumored to be the -1 to hit So if true, GW essentially has broken the game again since that means fearless conscripts are back and you'll see Custodes (at least the banner guy) in every single imperial list.
It depends if the bubble is for models or units, and how much cost that Vexilla guy. Is not like anyone was using 4ppm conscripts, and morale isn't that important agaisn't 10-man infantry squads.
Cephalobeard wrote: However, -1 to be hit T5 3++ squads will be neighbors impregnable for many opponents. It's gonna be fun.
Yep, I imagine taking a footslogger screen of 12-15 Custodes with mostly Storm Shields. And behind that a horde of powerful Custodes characters, many of whom will be on jetbikes, ready to pounce when close enough.
While the terminators and jetbike units themselves will be sweet, I can imagine being expensive targets for lascannons straight away. 4++ is tough, but not that tough. By keeping them all characters you get the best of both worlds.
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
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Guyver 3 wrote: Any other tzeentch players peeved that GW took the Changlings bubble of -1 to hit away as it was “broken” but gave it to a new army a week later?
To be fair, the Changling could cover a LOT more units/models just due to the fact that Daemons are cheaper.
Wayniac wrote: I just saw some leaks from someone (on facebook but they have been right about the other things) saying the custodes aquila guy gives a fearless bubble to imperium and some other effect, one of which was rumored to be the -1 to hit So if true, GW essentially has broken the game again since that means fearless conscripts are back and you'll see Custodes (at least the banner guy) in every single imperial list.
in the index it basicly is a ATSKNF bubble, granting re-rolls on failed morale saves. I'd guesst that
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
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Guyver 3 wrote: Any other tzeentch players peeved that GW took the Changlings bubble of -1 to hit away as it was “broken” but gave it to a new army a week later?
To be fair, the Changling could cover a LOT more units/models just due to the fact that Daemons are cheaper.
I don’t dispute that the changling rule wasn’t great and really strong, just annoyed that it got completely nerfed but another army essentially gets the same rule within days!
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
Actually, Shield-Captains in lore make heavy use of Iron Halos, as do the higher ranking Tribunate. Every Custodian has a refractor field or better.
(In fact, you can spend 10pts in 30k to increase their invuln from 4++ to 3++)
I think they may have kept the Shield-Captain as having just a refractor field for balance sake. And with the +1 invuln it balances out
Wayniac wrote: I just saw some leaks from someone (on facebook but they have been right about the other things) saying the custodes aquila guy gives a fearless bubble to imperium and some other effect, one of which was rumored to be the -1 to hit So if true, GW essentially has broken the game again since that means fearless conscripts are back and you'll see Custodes (at least the banner guy) in every single imperial list.
If there's any truth to this, I expect the buff to give fearless to all <Imperium> and -1 to hit for only <Custodes> units. If Imperials would get both, it'd be a major meta shift, and the astra infantry horde would step up again as the undisputed top dog.
If the terminators are only a 5++ save, what exactly is the point of taking terminators over normal guys? All they get is one more wound and one more attack and deepstrike.
cuda1179 wrote: If the terminators are only a 5++ save, what exactly is the point of taking terminators over normal guys? All they get is one more wound and one more attack and deepstrike.
No clue. But the leaks guy we've been talking to has been right about everything else so far.
+1W is still pretty major.
Free deepstrike.
Option to take the Castellan Axes (S+3 AP-2 D3D)
Also, the extra arm mounted grenade launcher can help them vs hordes. As he's been saying it can be used in melee like a pistol
Like WrentheFaceless said, a 3++ would be scary.
I think TOO scary
cuda1179 wrote: If the terminators are only a 5++ save, what exactly is the point of taking terminators over normal guys? All they get is one more wound and one more attack and deepstrike.
cuda1179 wrote: If the terminators are only a 5++ save, what exactly is the point of taking terminators over normal guys? All they get is one more wound and one more attack and deepstrike.
For sure they will have deepstrike! Maybe they will also have special abilities or better equipment! They already come with the axes so there’s that
cuda1179 wrote: If the terminators are only a 5++ save, what exactly is the point of taking terminators over normal guys? All they get is one more wound and one more attack and deepstrike.
For sure they will have deepstrike! Maybe they will also have special abilities or better equipment! They already come with the axes so there’s that
You can also take them in squads of 1 for cheap Vanguard detachments I'd imagine.
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
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Guyver 3 wrote: Any other tzeentch players peeved that GW took the Changlings bubble of -1 to hit away as it was “broken” but gave it to a new army a week later?
To be fair, the Changling could cover a LOT more units/models just due to the fact that Daemons are cheaper.
I don’t dispute that the changling rule wasn’t great and really strong, just annoyed that it got completely nerfed but another army essentially gets the same rule within days!
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
Actually, Shield-Captains in lore make heavy use of Iron Halos, as do the higher ranking Tribunate. Every Custodian has a refractor field or better.
(In fact, you can spend 10pts in 30k to increase their invuln from 4++ to 3++)
I think they may have kept the Shield-Captain as having just a refractor field for balance sake. And with the +1 invuln it balances out
I guess I meant more for the lore of the models we're fielding here. For whatever reason, these guys left theirs at home.
I think Allarus Terminators should have a 3++, you can bet they're going to be costed at a premium if they're taken in squad sizes of 1-3, they should have the durability to match. Just having an extra wound over a regular spear Custodian Guard isn't enough. Terminators across other armies already have enough problems surviving after deep strike, at the very least it'll make Allarus Terminators harder to remove and maybe even worth their price depending on what else they bring to the table (something you can't really say about other kinds of Terminators, being way overcosted).
Mr. Funktastic wrote: I think Allarus Terminators should have a 3++, you can bet they're going to be costed at a premium if they're taken in squad sizes of 1-3, they should have the durability to match. Just having an extra wound over a regular spear Custodian Guard isn't enough. Terminators across other armies already have enough problems surviving after deep strike, at the very least it'll make Allarus Terminators harder to remove and maybe even worth their price depending on what else they bring to the table (something you can't really say about other kinds of Terminators, being way overcosted).
I'd imagine their route to a 3++ would be to take Storm Shields and swords. Otherwise they'll have a 4++ with spears in a pure detachment.
In all this leaking does anyone know if you can take Storm Shields with the axe?
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
Actually, Shield-Captains in lore make heavy use of Iron Halos, as do the higher ranking Tribunate. Every Custodian has a refractor field or better.
(In fact, you can spend 10pts in 30k to increase their invuln from 4++ to 3++)
I think they may have kept the Shield-Captain as having just a refractor field for balance sake. And with the +1 invuln it balances out
I guess I meant more for the lore of the models we're fielding here. For whatever reason, these guys left theirs at home.
Yeah. Not sure why Shield-Captains left their Iron Halos at home. Maybe they just wanted a challenge
We don't know yet that the Allarus Terminators don't have a 4++ base. It would seem odd given their armour is based off of cataphracti terminator armour for their base inv. to only be 5++. Given the points they are likely to cost I'd expect a 3++ to be honest!
Necronmaniac05 wrote: We don't know yet that the Allarus Terminators don't have a 4++ base. It would seem odd given their armour is based off of cataphracti terminator armour for their base inv. to only be 5++. Given the points they are likely to cost I'd expect a 3++ to be honest!
Well, as we were saying above, while it's weird that cataphractii armour might have a 5+, the leaks guy has been right about everything so far.
The +1 invuln while battleforged cancels it out. Also, a 3++ is more than a bit excessive in an army of potentially teleporting Telemon dreadnoughts. I believe making them have a 5++ save is a way of preventing them getting that 3++
Audustum wrote: To be fair, the Changling could cover a LOT more units/models just due to the fact that Daemons are cheaper.
I don’t dispute that the changling rule wasn’t great and really strong, just annoyed that it got completely nerfed but another army essentially gets the same rule within days!
Funny that, that is exactly what GW did killing conscripts/comissars then giving the exact same rule, unchanged, to Tyranids and Eldar
changemod wrote: Frankly, relying on a bonus to take you to where you should be by default?
Means it isn't actually a bonus.
Beg to differ, but the alternative is them starting with a 4++ and getting autobuffed to a 3++. I would not wish that cheese on my opponent even if I hated them xD
changemod wrote: Frankly, relying on a bonus to take you to where you should be by default?
Means it isn't actually a bonus.
I mean, if you REALLY want to petition GW to make an entire army 3++ I think we'd support you but I can't imagine the other factions will be pleased...
cuda1179 wrote: I am super surprised the leaders only have a 5++. Why would they be worse than marines?
It's a 4++ with the faction bonus. Effectively the same. Lore-wise they just don't wear Iron Halos.
Actually, Shield-Captains in lore make heavy use of Iron Halos, as do the higher ranking Tribunate. Every Custodian has a refractor field or better.
(In fact, you can spend 10pts in 30k to increase their invuln from 4++ to 3++)
I think they may have kept the Shield-Captain as having just a refractor field for balance sake. And with the +1 invuln it balances out
I guess I meant more for the lore of the models we're fielding here. For whatever reason, these guys left theirs at home.
Yeah. Not sure why Shield-Captains left their Iron Halos at home. Maybe they just wanted a challenge
"They don't make Xenos like they used too!"
"Used too?"
"Yeah, like, 10,000 years ago or something. I dunno, look, I got drunk and lost it in the throne room"
A rule that gives them +1 to their invul saves. Why not just give them a higher Invul save to begin with and forget having yet another redundant special rule?
A rule that gives them +1 to their invul saves. Why not just give them a higher Invul save to begin with and forget having yet another redundant special rule?
Looks like its a detachment bonus for having a detachment of nothing but custodes.
Its probably so that if you have a mixed detachment with just a single unit of custodes, they won't have 4+ invuls.
A rule that gives them +1 to their invul saves. Why not just give them a higher Invul save to begin with and forget having yet another redundant special rule?
well it makes it easier to remove I guess
but agree, 8th seemed to start out nicely with none of the "special" rules BS that when you followed the rule, that just said another rule applied and that turned out to be a +/-1 on your profile by just changing the profile
It's because Emperor's Chosen only applies to infantry and bikers, so vehicles like the Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought and Land Raider (or whatever new vehicle Custodes may or may not get) will still get Aegis of the Emperor but no bonus to their invulnerable save for balance I'm assuming.
A rule that gives them +1 to their invul saves. Why not just give them a higher Invul save to begin with and forget having yet another redundant special rule?
It basically reads: "Custodes played in a soup list have their invul saved reduced by one so everyone doesn't just pick them over their flavor of terminator".
GW wants you to play an entire detachment of shiny golden men if you want to have nigh-indestructible elite units.
A rule that gives them +1 to their invul saves. Why not just give them a higher Invul save to begin with and forget having yet another redundant special rule?
It basically reads: "Custodes played in a soup list have their invul saved reduced by one so everyone doesn't just pick them over their flavor of terminator".
GW wants you to play an entire detachment of shiny golden men if you want to have nigh-indestructible elite units.
Eh, I mean...you only need 4 models to get a full custodes detachment now right? With the min unit size of the troop going down to 3. At least I think it was the troops.
changemod wrote: Frankly, relying on a bonus to take you to where you should be by default?
Means it isn't actually a bonus.
Beg to differ, but the alternative is them starting with a 4++ and getting autobuffed to a 3++. I would not wish that cheese on my opponent even if I hated them xD
You mean like Storm Shield Terminators? Those aren't exactly tearing up the competitive scenes these days. Let's face it, Custodes Terminators are basically just two normal terminators mashed into one, and double the price. Giving them a 3++ would not have been overpowered. Perhaps they have a feel no pain equivalent?
changemod wrote: Frankly, relying on a bonus to take you to where you should be by default?
Means it isn't actually a bonus.
Beg to differ, but the alternative is them starting with a 4++ and getting autobuffed to a 3++. I would not wish that cheese on my opponent even if I hated them xD
You mean like Storm Shield Terminators? Those aren't exactly tearing up the competitive scenes these days. Let's face it, Custodes Terminators are basically just two normal terminators mashed into one, and double the price. Giving them a 3++ would not have been overpowered. Perhaps they have a feel no pain equivalent?
changemod wrote: Frankly, relying on a bonus to take you to where you should be by default?
Means it isn't actually a bonus.
Beg to differ, but the alternative is them starting with a 4++ and getting autobuffed to a 3++. I would not wish that cheese on my opponent even if I hated them xD
You're thinking about it slightly upside down: being deprived something so that the bonus gives it instead is equivalent to not getting a bonus in the first place.
Honestly I'd suggest that if that results in too high an invuln on terminators and HQs and your only categories of infantry are the aforementioned, two types of power armour guys and bikers, you might have picked the wrong faction-wide buff in the first place. It effectively only buffs three units.
so in my opinon the low INV saves are really needed. i have always loved playing small elite armies. but the glaring problem is duribility. an army with 16 models or so istn going to have over whelming fire power. and even if every hit in CC kills large armies can still throw squads in to slwo thrm down and not lose many points. what really makes an elite army is its ability to take punishment and deal it out. because when a super small army looses a squad its a huge deal. but a large army doesnt care.
honestly i think its a step in the right direction. i love playing terminator armies, but the duribility was never enough.
Agreed, as they are Terminators in general just aren't durable enough for what they're costed considering how many things in the game can kill elite units with ease, even ones with Storm Shields can wither against sheer number of shots from Assault Cannons and the like. At the very least a 3++ would actually make them worth taking compared to a 4++ and would help make Adeptus Custodes a true elite army that might actually be semi-viable to run.
It all depends on points so no need to cry out for a buff just yet. If they're only say 10-15 points more than Custodian Guardsmen for the extra wound, deepstrike and grenade launcher we will see heaps of them.
Of course they may also be 40 points more, point is we don't know yet. Remember GW will want to sell them so I wouldn't be surprised if they are priced competitively in spite of being Terminators.
So, AC deep strike stratagem is a thing. Cool. No one else has said this yet, so I guess I'll be that guy: the Custodes Deep Strike list is officially the Golden Shower, right?
On a more serious note, this list looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. IDK about competitive, but it'll be a blast for sure. One more thing on my list I guess. That list really is getting too long at this point...
Well, it will be nice to show up to a game with a tiny carrying case (minimal effort), being able to deploy in under 2 minutes (minimal effort and time), and have a game last 50% as long as normal.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Looks like its a detachment bonus for having a detachment of nothing but custodes.
Its probably so that if you have a mixed detachment with just a single unit of custodes, they won't have 4+ invuls.
Why make rules that incentivise not using certain aspect of the rules?
-OR-
Why make rules that punish you for using certain aspect of the rules?
What I'm trying to say that if the game is already so broken this early into its lifespan that they have to bribe people with powerful rules to stop them from abusing the shonky allies rules, then we're in trouble.
Galas wrote: The reason I believe Sisters of Silence can't work is because they have the Grey Knight problem to the extreme. They can't be balanced both agaisn't a heavy Psyker army and a non-psyker army. Agaisnt things like Tau or Necrons they will be overpaying for a innate-antipsychic defense that they aren't gonna use.
Is not a "fluff" reason for them to not be their stand alone faction, but a gameplay reason.
Actually there IS way for that to work though not common and doubtful GW would go but...Basically in game of SoS vs psykers opposing psykers would get boosted up somehow. Would feel bit backwards with beneficitial rule for psyker army being on opponent's codex but doable and GW did similar thing with daemon hunters of 3rd ed.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Looks like its a detachment bonus for having a detachment of nothing but custodes.
Its probably so that if you have a mixed detachment with just a single unit of custodes, they won't have 4+ invuls.
Why make rules that incentivise not using certain aspect of the rules?
-OR-
Why make rules that punish you for using certain aspect of the rules?
What I'm trying to say that if the game is already so broken this early into its lifespan that they have to bribe people with powerful rules to stop them from abusing the shonky allies rules, then we're in trouble.
How is GW actually realizing problems and taking countermeasures "trouble"?
I think it's an elegant solution. In any game that has some sort of list building, cherry picking is always superior to playing a mono faction/army/color build unless the game implements some rules that provide benefits for those that do.
It's questionable whether GW is properly balancing those benefits against the advantages of cherry picking, but the path is the right one.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Looks like its a detachment bonus for having a detachment of nothing but custodes.
Its probably so that if you have a mixed detachment with just a single unit of custodes, they won't have 4+ invuls.
Why make rules that incentivise not using certain aspect of the rules?
-OR-
Why make rules that punish you for using certain aspect of the rules?
What I'm trying to say that if the game is already so broken this early into its lifespan that they have to bribe people with powerful rules to stop them from abusing the shonky allies rules, then we're in trouble.
How is GW actually realizing problems and taking countermeasures "trouble"?
I think it's an elegant solution. In any game that has some sort of list building, cherry picking is always superior to playing a mono faction/army/color build unless the game implements some rules that provide benefits for those that do.
It's questionable whether GW is properly balancing those benefits against the advantages of cherry picking, but the path is the right one.
What game are you actually arguing against or are you just making up some fictional non-GW game? 40katm is basically the only example of this. Malifaux primarily has in-faction armies due to how most auras or other buffs work. Warmachine has some mercs but again most bonuses are given to in-faction stuff. WFB (RIP) had basically no useful allies. The fact is MOST games want people to collect and use single factions.
This could only be elegant if you assume the entire gaming universe consists of 1 game... 40k. Custodes will probably be a very niche army as I don't believe GW understands how awful the game is for elite armies. Point for point they simply aren't competitive since GW refuses to increase # of shots / attacks for more expensive models.
Well, I dunno about shots yet but all Custodes seem to have 3-5 attacks per model. Since they hit on 2's and can re-roll 1's that seems pretty good for speedy chopping.
If you really can strap Hurricane Bolters to all the bikes that should help too. They might have the volume an elite army should.
3 attacks hitting on a 2+ is equivalent to 6 attacks hitting on a 3+ in terms of reliability.
Upside is the 2+ is less affected by -1 to hit etc.
Downside is the 6 attacks still have the potential to become 6 unsaved wounds (before damage multipliers, natch) But there's still a lot to be said for the sheer reliability of everyone hitting on a 2+.
I'll be wanting to see how the synergy all works out, and indeed the ranges on buff bubbles. When you're a small, elite army, you don't want to have to keep everyone bunched up to stand a chance, as you're forced to cede a large chunk of the board to your enemy.
I'm also hoping that Custodes will have ways to tinker with enemy Ld values. Given their own resilience, being able to wallop Hordes with Battleshock is a useful trick - rapidly cuts down the number of models one actually has to formally job if you can really maximise the effect of the Brown Trousers phase, no?
But there also needs to be acceptance that there should be some armies they can't just simply kerb stomp. I mean, they'll do an absolute number on other small, elite armies - so they shouldn't be completely 'no-brain' effective against all Hordes.
What game are you actually arguing against or are you just making up some fictional non-GW game? 40katm is basically the only example of this. Malifaux primarily has in-faction armies due to how most auras or other buffs work. Warmachine has some mercs but again most bonuses are given to in-faction stuff. WFB (RIP) had basically no useful allies. The fact is MOST games want people to collect and use single factions.
Because all of them implement some sort of reward for not using allies - which is exactly what I said, right?
It has been some time since I dabbled with Warmachine (I don't know the first thing about Malifaux, sorry), but the last time I did certain mercenaries were pretty much must-takes for many armies - apparently this has changed. If there was no downside to bringing mercenaries or upside to not bringing them, why not bring the best ones in every army? That's no difference to all imperium armies bringing conscripts or all chaos armies bringing brimstones. If nothing is lost by bringing the cheapest screen available to your army, why not bring it?
A good counter-example would be MtG. Every color has certain weaknesses and strengths by design, and adding more colors to a deck eliminates weaknesses and adds strengths. In an environment where color-fixing is readily available, there is no downside to picking multiple colors, so the meta game shifts to "good stuff" decks and everybody in tournaments starts playing a different set of the same ~40 cards. The more you need to invest into having all colors of mana, the less colors a found in tournament decks. The harder cherry-picking colors is the more likely you will see one or two-colored decks.
This could only be elegant if you assume the entire gaming universe consists of 1 game... 40k. Custodes will probably be a very niche army as I don't believe GW understands how awful the game is for elite armies. Point for point they simply aren't competitive since GW refuses to increase # of shots / attacks for more expensive models.
So, what's your argument here?
Note that I'm not arguing whether unknown rules with unknown point values should result in 3++ or 4++. I'm arguing that it's ok to require you to field at least a custodes HQ and two other units if you want +1 to invul saves for your super-durable, objective securing jet bikes.
I think it's elegant because it allows little Timmy to field his Inquisitor, Cypher, Celestine, Roboute, Cawl, some ETB Agressors, his Talon of the Emperor box and a LRBT as one army to fight his friend Jonny's eldar pirates made up of harlequins, wyches and banshees, lead by Eldrad and Lillith.
It's also elegant because competitive gamers can't just drop a warptime sorcerer into their Death Guard army to have their Blightlords assault in turn 1 without giving up their legion trait. It's basically a combo tax.
The system is not well balanced at all, but the idea behind it is pretty good.
I second the notion that GW has no clue how systematically crap all elite armies and units are. 8th is a horde game through and through. GW already gak the bed with Marines, and that gives little hope for any future elite armies like Necrons.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Looks like its a detachment bonus for having a detachment of nothing but custodes.
Its probably so that if you have a mixed detachment with just a single unit of custodes, they won't have 4+ invuls.
Why make rules that incentivise not using certain aspect of the rules?
-OR-
Why make rules that punish you for using certain aspect of the rules?
What I'm trying to say that if the game is already so broken this early into its lifespan that they have to bribe people with powerful rules to stop them from abusing the shonky allies rules, then we're in trouble.
How is GW actually realizing problems and taking countermeasures "trouble"?
I think it's an elegant solution. In any game that has some sort of list building, cherry picking is always superior to playing a mono faction/army/color build unless the game implements some rules that provide benefits for those that do.
It's questionable whether GW is properly balancing those benefits against the advantages of cherry picking, but the path is the right one.
What game are you actually arguing against or are you just making up some fictional non-GW game? 40katm is basically the only example of this. Malifaux primarily has in-faction armies due to how most auras or other buffs work. Warmachine has some mercs but again most bonuses are given to in-faction stuff. WFB (RIP) had basically no useful allies. The fact is MOST games want people to collect and use single factions.
This could only be elegant if you assume the entire gaming universe consists of 1 game... 40k. Custodes will probably be a very niche army as I don't believe GW understands how awful the game is for elite armies. Point for point they simply aren't competitive since GW refuses to increase # of shots / attacks for more expensive models.
Er not really in the case of Malifaux - it has multi faction leaders who eneable you to build gangs of different factions, a whole faction of Mercenaries etc etc
Unless I'm missing something, if the Allarus terminators only have a 5++ save as base, what benefit is their alleged cataphracti armour providing over basic terminator armour or indeed custodian guard armour? A custodian guard has a 2+ save and (with no storm shield but emperors chosen) a 4++. If the above is true, an Allarus terminator has a 2+ save and a 4++ via their armour or emperors chosen. So what benefit is the armour providing?!
Necronmaniac05 wrote: Unless I'm missing something, if the Allarus terminators only have a 5++ save as base, what benefit is their alleged cataphracti armour providing over basic terminator armour or indeed custodian guard armour? A custodian guard has a 2+ save and (with no storm shield but emperors chosen) a 4++. If the above is true, an Allarus terminator has a 2+ save and a 4++ via their armour or emperors chosen. So what benefit is the armour providing?!
Rather funny how 30k termies are more survivable. But here's how these to 30k rules wouldn't be that bad for fw. Plastic termies for worse inv plus whatever they provide, fw ones would have role thanks to different guns and better inv save
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: 3 attacks hitting on a 2+ is equivalent to 6 attacks hitting on a 3+ in terms of reliability.
Upside is the 2+ is less affected by -1 to hit etc.
Downside is the 6 attacks still have the potential to become 6 unsaved wounds (before damage multipliers, natch) But there's still a lot to be said for the sheer reliability of everyone hitting on a 2+.
I'll be wanting to see how the synergy all works out, and indeed the ranges on buff bubbles. When you're a small, elite army, you don't want to have to keep everyone bunched up to stand a chance, as you're forced to cede a large chunk of the board to your enemy.
I'm also hoping that Custodes will have ways to tinker with enemy Ld values. Given their own resilience, being able to wallop Hordes with Battleshock is a useful trick - rapidly cuts down the number of models one actually has to formally job if you can really maximise the effect of the Brown Trousers phase, no?
But there also needs to be acceptance that there should be some armies they can't just simply kerb stomp. I mean, they'll do an absolute number on other small, elite armies - so they shouldn't be completely 'no-brain' effective against all Hordes.
There's some questionable arithmetic here.
6 attacks hitting on a 3+ averages 4 hits. 3 attacks hitting on a 2+ averages 2.5 hits.
With -1 to hit, 6 attacks gives you 3 hits and 3 attacks gives you 2.
I think that Custodes might work well in practice because their guys are decent at shooting enemy infantry and good at chopping up just about everything. A 260 point squad with spears is legitimately dangerous and tough. High toughness, multiple wounds and a 2+ save means that weight of fire attacks will really struggle to take them down, and even really heavy fire from lascannons etc. will struggle. It's hard to see a weapon that can efficiently kill them.
6 attacks hitting on a 3+ averages 4 hits. 3 attacks hitting on a 2+ averages 2.5 hits.
With -1 to hit, 6 attacks gives you 3 hits and 3 attacks gives you 2.
I think that Custodes might work well in practice because their guys are decent at shooting enemy infantry and good at chopping up just about everything. A 260 point squad with spears is legitimately dangerous and tough. High toughness, multiple wounds and a 2+ save means that weight of fire attacks will really struggle to take them down, and even really heavy fire from lascannons etc. will struggle. It's hard to see a weapon that can efficiently kill them.
And 6 attacks have higher potential and of course more dice you roll the less extreme swings you are likely to suffer. Thus even if average somehow was same 6 attacks>3 attacks.
Not that it really changes core. If they have enough attacks to make mincemeat of hordes then imagine effect they are going to have non-hordes? Even worse as even if they are good against horde they are even better vs non-horde.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: 3 attacks hitting on a 2+ is equivalent to 6 attacks hitting on a 3+ in terms of reliability.
Upside is the 2+ is less affected by -1 to hit etc.
Downside is the 6 attacks still have the potential to become 6 unsaved wounds (before damage multipliers, natch) But there's still a lot to be said for the sheer reliability of everyone hitting on a 2+.
I'll be wanting to see how the synergy all works out, and indeed the ranges on buff bubbles. When you're a small, elite army, you don't want to have to keep everyone bunched up to stand a chance, as you're forced to cede a large chunk of the board to your enemy.
I'm also hoping that Custodes will have ways to tinker with enemy Ld values. Given their own resilience, being able to wallop Hordes with Battleshock is a useful trick - rapidly cuts down the number of models one actually has to formally job if you can really maximise the effect of the Brown Trousers phase, no?
But there also needs to be acceptance that there should be some armies they can't just simply kerb stomp. I mean, they'll do an absolute number on other small, elite armies - so they shouldn't be completely 'no-brain' effective against all Hordes.
There's some questionable arithmetic here.
6 attacks hitting on a 3+ averages 4 hits. 3 attacks hitting on a 2+ averages 2.5 hits.
With -1 to hit, 6 attacks gives you 3 hits and 3 attacks gives you 2.
I think that Custodes might work well in practice because their guys are decent at shooting enemy infantry and good at chopping up just about everything. A 260 point squad with spears is legitimately dangerous and tough. High toughness, multiple wounds and a 2+ save means that weight of fire attacks will really struggle to take them down, and even really heavy fire from lascannons etc. will struggle. It's hard to see a weapon that can efficiently kill them.
I'm not talking about averages - just sheer reliability. And that's without factoring in that they re-roll 1's.
Astmeister wrote: I think predator autocannons could do a pretty good job in killing them. Also smite is still very good against them or any other mortal wounds.
You're gonna need 2 Smites per model, average for the weakest Custodes. Wiping a 3-man squad would take 6. With the nerf to Malefic Lords and the beta rules making it so that Smite gets +1 difficulty per cast most armies just don't have the psychic access to kill a lot of Custodes.
On the tabletop, Vertus Praetors are the fastest moving elements of the Adeptus Custodes army, boasting a 14″ move, Fly, and a straight boost of 6″ when they Advance without having to roll.
Where the Vertus Praetors really shine is in their weaponry, helping provide some much-needed anti-armour ability to the Adeptus Custodes army. While you’re free to build yours with hurricane bolters, we’re fans of the new salvo launcher, a missile weapon that can adjust its firing profile based on target. The flakkburst missile allows you to shoot Flyers out of the sky (or soften them up for a particularly bold lance charge), while the melta missile deals hefty damage to any vehicles
Should anyone survive your ranged onslaught, interceptor lances are also brutally effective weapons:
By combining these guys with a nearby Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (buildable using the same kit!) you’ll be able to grab objectives and hunt down choice enemy units with ease.
Am I the only one that’s concerned about the 6+++ against Psychic mortal wounds being a bandaid on a bullet wound? Mortal wounds are going to wreck Custodes, and with a very small model count and hence very small number of those saves you’re going to be attempting, it isn’t going to do much beyond the occasional “oh hey, I stopped one of the eight MW Magnus just dumped on my 500pt unit”. I would have thought s 5+++ would have been a bit closer to the mark.
Astmeister wrote: I think predator autocannons could do a pretty good job in killing them. Also smite is still very good against them or any other mortal wounds.
You're gonna need 2 Smites per model, average for the weakest Custodes. Wiping a 3-man squad would take 6. With the nerf to Malefic Lords and the beta rules making it so that Smite gets +1 difficulty per cast most armies just don't have the psychic access to kill a lot of Custodes.
That said, fear the 2k army of Wave Serpents!
You are right. However, the new smite monster is Magnus, the new psychic MW monster might be a LoC (Smite +2, Bolt of Change, Infernal Gate) and there are other possibilities for MW in general. Tyranids for example can have Biovores, Mawlocks or even charging Carnifexes. Okay the latter might suck against Custodes...
Astmeister wrote: I think predator autocannons could do a pretty good job in killing them. Also smite is still very good against them or any other mortal wounds.
You're gonna need 2 Smites per model, average for the weakest Custodes. Wiping a 3-man squad would take 6. With the nerf to Malefic Lords and the beta rules making it so that Smite gets +1 difficulty per cast most armies just don't have the psychic access to kill a lot of Custodes.
That said, fear the 2k army of Wave Serpents!
You are right. However, the new smite monster is Magnus, the new psychic MW monster might be a LoC (Smite +2, Bolt of Change, Infernal Gate) and there are other possibilities for MW in general. Tyranids for example can have Biovores, Mawlocks or even charging Carnifexes. Okay the latter might suck against Custodes...
kombatwombat wrote: Am I the only one that’s concerned about the 6+++ against Psychic mortal wounds being a bandaid on a bullet wound? Mortal wounds are going to wreck Custodes, and with a very small model count and hence very small number of those saves you’re going to be attempting, it isn’t going to do much beyond the occasional “oh hey, I stopped one of the eight MW Magnus just dumped on my 500pt unit”. I would have thought s 5+++ would have been a bit closer to the mark.
Eh, Magnus and other outliers aside, I don't think you'll need to particularly worry about this. I mean, a standard smite will maybe kill one custodian with good luck, and it just got way harder to smite spam.
The real threat is good old fashioned massed walls of firepower.
Not really wowed by either shooting weapon given the per model cost honestly, relative to the forge world bikers gun options.
Still, you mainly want these for their speedy, high toughness guardian spear equivalents, the gun is just a neat little bonus. Shame hurricane Bolters got their recent nerf to being a little overcosted. (10 points for three stormbolters?)
I find it interesting that the melta missiles apparently reroll to wound against vehicles. Maybe all melta weapons will be changing accordingly? Everyone agrees that meltas are too bad at the moment...
The Custodes army that's going to be on Warhammer TV this Thursday is reportedly 19 models. If that's pretty standard for a Custodes army, Magnus or Mortarion will eat them alive, especially if you bring along an allied Chaos sorcerer for Death Hex support. With those few models on the table, every lost model is going to hurt really badly.
As someone that uses this exact stratagem with my Dark Angels, I only can say that it is surprisingly usefull. And very cheap. I don't know how many times I have used it with a isolated Venerable Dreadnought just for him and be worth it. Or one that is alongside other Dreadnoughts or some infantry.
I can see a unit of jetbikes with a shield captain killing vehicles. The missiles are better than a lascannon at killing any vehicle in the game (other than range).
Why is everybody comparing 40k Custodes with 30k Custodes? For what I know (And I don't play HH) aren't 30k Custodes like... one of the most OP things in that game? Like, totally busted, like Magnus, etc...
I don't want that in 40k. I prefer a mid of the road custodes than a ultra-competitive Custodes army, that translates in a OP army agaisn't everything that isn't the most OP lists out there.
Custodes should be powerful, but with a weakness of their strategy falling apart if they start losing numbers.
In 30k it's too easy to build an army to match their strengths (Which doesn't mean they don't have duds, such as Saggitarum guard). We're worried that the horde meta plus them being a little light on anti-vehicle without FW toys will lead to them having the opposite problem in 40k: Units that excel at their given task but lead to an overall force easy to disrupt, dismantle and even table.
Kinda awkward that the missile profiles are all Heavy weapons unless they get a rule to mitigate hit penalties for moving and firing with Heavy weapons but with a BS 2+ I can't complain too much. Jetbikes look dope.
I would be higher on the Land Raider strategem especially with how prevalent -1 to hit modifiers are now but I can barely see myself taking one, let alone two of them considering how ridiculously overpriced Land Raiders are points wise.
Galas wrote: Why is everybody comparing 40k Custodes with 30k Custodes? For what I know (And I don't play HH) aren't 30k Custodes like... one of the most OP things in that game? Like, totally busted, like Magnus, etc...
I don't want that in 40k. I prefer a mid of the road custodes than a ultra-competitive Custodes army, that translates in a OP army agaisn't everything that isn't the most OP lists out there.
Everyone's always going on about 8th ed being a horde edition in which elite armies have a hard time to begin with. I don't think anybody wants Custodes to be better than everyone else, just better than other elite armies - thus allowing them to compete.
I mean, just look at the Terminators. We don't have a points cost for them yet, but for 20 years the points cost of Terminators has consistently been "too much". There's no reason to expect that the Custodes Terminators will fare any better. Similarly, if GW hasn't figured out how to get elite armies on equal ground to horde armies thus far, what are the odds of them doing it now, all of a sudden, with Custodes?
It's just people hoping for any small advantage they can get, not to have the bestest army out there, but to at least approach a level playing field.
I can understand that. But I think the solution is to make Custodes a balanced army, and then nerf the outliers out there. If every new army needs to be more powerfull to compete, then we enter in power creep territory.
And as much as people complain about Horde Armies being totally OP... this is something new of 8th edition. is not like Hordes where the hotness in 5th, 6th and 7th.
And I Know, I know... the only meta that matters is the ultra-competitive big GT internet meta. But in my regional meta (Not local because I play in all of Galicia) even having guys that spam Dark Reapers, Magnus+Brimstones, etc... they are in a minority.
SAKE!! I just had a lengthy discussion today at my local 
