H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Clearly a new Tyranid Lord of War model - holding the remains of some fallen Chaos sorcerer in its huge jaws. Crushing the tainted life out of them as part of a huge Anti-Chaos Tyranid Campaign.

You've basically summed up why Rumour Engine pics are all but worthless.

Well its mostly a bit of fun and marketing.

But yeah sometimes they are super teasing. Eg the time they showed scales and everyone thought it was a new lizard and it turned out to be a dead lizard skin on a marine; or the new tyranid head that turned out to be a dead tyranid on an IG base (though I've got her and she's darn well going to be a genestealer cultist one day)

 Overread wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Clearly a new Tyranid Lord of War model - holding the remains of some fallen Chaos sorcerer in its huge jaws. Crushing the tainted life out of them as part of a huge Anti-Chaos Tyranid Campaign.

You've basically summed up why Rumour Engine pics are all but worthless.

Well its mostly a bit of fun and marketing.

But yeah sometimes they are super teasing. Eg the time they showed scales and everyone thought it was a new lizard and it turned out to be a dead lizard skin on a marine; or the new tyranid head that turned out to be a dead tyranid on an IG base (though I've got her and she's darn well going to be a genestealer cultist one day)

IMHO the rumour engine pics are just too few and far between and too thematically disjunct to get any excitement going. It rather have them scrap the weekly drip-feeding of a single nonsensical pic in favour of stuff like the 'Advent Engine' or 'Easter Engine' or whatever every couple of months with a lot of pictures in a shorter timeframe. But I guess the marketing dept. has numbers on what works the best, or more importantly numbers they themself need to match. Clicks for the click god, Unique User Interactions for the Unique User Interaction throne!

They generate enough interest that most forums/groups/clubs/websites active with GW stuff tend to report/chat about them when they come out (this thread is living proof of that).

 Overread wrote:
They generate enough interest that most forums/groups/clubs/websites active with GW stuff tend to report/chat about them when they come out (this thread is living proof of that).

Yep. Like it or not I rather have this approach than the one that we had, with no news about anything for months.
Men complaining about food when they have the belly full XD XD

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Overread wrote:
They generate enough interest that most forums/groups/clubs/websites active with GW stuff tend to report/chat about them when they come out (this thread is living proof of that).

Yep. Like it or not I rather have this approach than the one that we had, with no news about anything for months.
Men complaining about food when they have the belly full XD XD

It's an interesting conundrum to be honest. You are right, it was painful when GW never did a real preview and refused to acknowledge they were making anything new. By contrast we now get rumour engine pics that are either clearly related to something that has already been previewed on occasion, or near release. Sometimes they're really vague and generic, to the point it could be nearly anything (like this one, although no the worst example). In other previews they tease a teaser for something that they've already told us about, like the tarot cards being the arks of omen books, which are a monumental waste of effort.

The rumor engine is a funny gimmik thing that is not really supposed to give any hard information.
I just enjoy the fellow posters casual wit and knowlege about the setting.

No need to get riled up about.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Chaos? Dark Mech?

It's a chaosy banner or something like that, and pretty obviously 40k or 40k-adjacent with the bionic eye on the skull. Seems to be rather small, perhaps a back banner or icon, not overtly god-specific. Do we have rumors about the content of the 10th edition starter set?

Nothing yet but the new chaos bikes kit from the BigLeakTM are still unaccounted for.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Chaos? Dark Mech?

Commissar Yarrick.

 Dysartes wrote:
Definitely something Chaos, I'd say - the general structure is too much of an eight-pointed start to be anything else.

I don't see it as a World Eaters component, though, which does leave me struggling a little to place where it is likely to crop up.

Potentially a banner, or the top of a staff, if we assume the angle of this picture doesn't line up with "down" for the model?

down for the model isn’t down for the staff, if he’s holding it at an angle.

I think that's a sword pommel. It's definitely something on something largish's back at that angle.

Standard topper for a traitor guard command squad

The just revealed boxing day miniature solves some engine pictures that have been long in the tooth:



Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/12/this-years-boxing-day-miniature-has-a-next-level-party-hat/


From April 2020


From May 2020


From June 2021

Credit to: https://warbosskurgan.blogspot.com/p/rumour-engines.html

Makes me wonder if it was originally a model for a Cursed City expansion. There was a location on the original map that sounded like a ghoul lair.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Makes me wonder if it was originally a model for a Cursed City expansion.

This again?

First, it's a vampire, not a ghoul. Yes, the kind that usually has ghouls as lackeys, but I can't see him sharing the city with normal vampires. Aren't they supposed to hate each other? And why wouldn't it be Slavic themed like the others? Second, if this mini is push fit, maybe it was expansion, but I can't see it. Isn't the base too big for CC grid?

Has anyone thought to train an AI/ML algorithm on official GW images, and then feed it Rumor Engine images to see what it identified them as?

 Irbis wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Makes me wonder if it was originally a model for a Cursed City expansion.

This again?

First, it's a vampire, not a ghoul. Yes, the kind that usually has ghouls as lackeys, but I can't see him sharing the city with normal vampires. Aren't they supposed to hate each other? And why wouldn't it be Slavic themed like the others? Second, if this mini is push fit, maybe it was expansion, but I can't see it. Isn't the base too big for CC grid?

The original map had a location for each Nighthaunt and Ghouls (yes, I know the differences between ghoulish vampires called ghoul kings and ghouls...). Looking at the age of the Rumour Engine pics, it's a bit of a surprise to see this model as a Boxing Day-miniature in 2022.

Don't know if the base is too big - could be the same as the Vargskyr. Btw I doubted, the rat guy and Annika were made for CC, because their bases were too long (havn't played the expansions yet so I don't know how it works). And he's as slavic as the vampire spawns - I mean, he's half-naked.

And I was just wondering. Nothing more.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
And he's as slavic as the vampire spawns - I mean, he's half-naked. And I was just wondering. Nothing more.

Don't forget the first Vampire Counts book had Strigoi. I always felt the Flesheater Courts were a callback to that

Well. That’s an Axe (note the ‘e’ )

And a Votann one judging by the haft.

It looks like it could be both s-f and fantasy. Maybe new Cities of Sigmar?

Now with that design and haft.

Sigmar stuff tends to be a bit fancier, especially if it’s a Dwarf.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well. That’s an Axe (note the ‘e’ )

And a Votann one judging by the haft.

It looks slightly less high-techy than other Votann stuff - looks like we get more Hernekyn units, rangers and the like, in a future wave, or perhaps as a kill-team or something like that, judging by this axe and the shotgun backpack from a few engines back.

My gut feeling is that its something for the humans for Cities of Sigmar in AoS. Honestly considering all the heavy armour, thick hides and scales you'd imagine that hammers would be super common as a weapon in the Mortal Realms - way more than swords. Why try or bother cutting armour when you can smash it with a hammer

There is a similar axe with a cover on the Hearthkyn Warriors sprue.

Steve

Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

 Overread wrote:
My gut feeling is that its something for the humans for Cities of Sigmar in AoS. Honestly considering all the heavy armour, thick hides and scales you'd imagine that hammers would be super common as a weapon in the Mortal Realms - way more than swords. Why try or bother cutting armour when you can smash it with a hammer

Eh, swords remained common sidearms historically even when armour was at it's absolute zenith in Europe. They are very versatile weapons- against armour you can use them as a tool to aid grappling or a lightweight mace in a reversed grip. We know, for example, that hard-bitten veteran English knights of the latter Hundred Years War typically wore longswords as sidearms, suited as a backup weapon for their favoured style of infantry combat. They did this expecting to bear the brunt of fighting against enemy men-at-arms in heavy armour.

What is wierder is the relative lack of polearms as primary weapons and corresponding prevalence of shields with heavy armour, although I think the obvious answer is that shields look cool and provide a great modelling opportunity for heraldry etc.

 Haighus wrote:

 Overread wrote:
My gut feeling is that its something for the humans for Cities of Sigmar in AoS. Honestly considering all the heavy armour, thick hides and scales you'd imagine that hammers would be super common as a weapon in the Mortal Realms - way more than swords. Why try or bother cutting armour when you can smash it with a hammer

Eh, swords remained common sidearms historically even when armour was at it's absolute zenith in Europe. They are very versatile weapons- against armour you can use them as a tool to aid grappling or a lightweight mace in a reversed grip. We know, for example, that hard-bitten veteran English knights of the latter Hundred Years War typically wore longswords as sidearms, suited as a backup weapon for their favoured style of infantry combat. They did this expecting to bear the brunt of fighting against enemy men-at-arms in heavy armour.

What is wierder is the relative lack of polearms as primary weapons and corresponding prevalence of shields with heavy armour, although I think the obvious answer is that shields look cool and provide a great modelling opportunity for heraldry etc.

Shields also make the miniatures more useful as game pieces, because you can easily make different types of otherwise same-ish models distinguishable by giving them optically different shields, have the Abysshome Spearduderinos have round ones and the Crevicelair Manstabbers have diamond-shaped ones and so on...

Andykp wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

I mean, it actually seems pretty much actually identical..

Danny76 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

I mean, it actually seems pretty much actually identical..

Perhaps it's a asset that has been recycled for another sprue? A standardized piece of equipment would be quite in-character for the industrial efficiency theme the Votann have going. It could also be a two handed variant with an identical axe head, but a longer haft.

Andykp wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

Which kit is it from? Because if it’s the hover bikes, I reckon we will be seeing at least an Anniversary Model coming in the same vein.

There's an exact one in the Hearthkyn sprue and a very similar one in the Hernkyn biker sprue.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

Which kit is it from? Because if it’s the hover bikes, I reckon we will be seeing at least an Anniversary Model coming in the same vein.

The axe from the Pioneers has a second strap across the handle at the halfway point of the first diamond pattern so it's not that one it's very like the one from the Heartkyn Warriors box

The pic I showed is from warriors, basic troops. Maybe another “temporal” anomaly form the rumour engine???

Rotary Lascannon thing.

Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

More clearly votann stuff, as in it already exists, could they be hinting more heavily at a second wave???

Andykp wrote:
More clearly votann stuff, as in it already exists, could they be hinting more heavily at a second wave???

Probably, the Votann are still missing a lot of the stuff a contemporary army has as a matter of course; there's room for a dual-build flyer, for some heavy walkers or walker-analogues, more special characters, a kill-team, support/artillery and the customary flashy centerpiec/diorama model at least. That's easily a second wave right there.

I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

 Olthannon wrote:
Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

It also matches the setup style of the autocannons on the Stalker AA for Marines.

Just sayin'. It's a STC design not strictly a Votann one.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

It also matches the setup style of the autocannons on the Stalker AA for Marines.

Just sayin'. It's a STC design not strictly a Votann one.

It's not a complete match for the Stalker - the Stalker has much shorter&thicker barrels and three separate muzzle brakes, while this gun seems to have a single, albeit tri-lobed muzzle brake block:



It's much much closer to the Herkyn special weapon, to the point it may actually be a reused asset:



Although the rumour engine pic makes it not totally clear if the disc connecting the three barrels is actually round like on the Hernkyn weapon or triangular - it looks triangular, but that may be due to it being black&white and the angle of the shot.

I see we're just glossing over the whole "it's a STC design, not a Votann one" thing.

That's the whole point of my post. It has elements of a STC design, not strictly the Votann one.

For all we know, it might be a Mechanicus piece with a multilaser.

Come on guys... I know we like to argue about everything, but like... come on.

Given the last picture was a votann tool that we already have in the hearthkyn box, and this is remarkably similar to the gun in the pioneers and land fortress. I am happy to say this votann. Could be marine or admech I suppose. But really looks like they are punching the whole “more votann coming” line and not very subtly.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I see we're just glossing over the whole "it's a STC design, not a Votann one" thing.

That's the whole point of my post. It has elements of a STC design, not strictly the Votann one.

For all we know, it might be a Mechanicus piece with a multilaser.

Being an STC design doesn't mean that both an Imperial and Votann versions of something with a shared STC origin will look exactly the same, only there might be similarities in design. It's quite clearly the Votann weapon as it matches their weapon patterns.

 Overread wrote:
I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

No doubt a HyLAS Ion pump action belt fed breach loading revolver musket Bolter or some other such nonsense gun for the Votann.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

No doubt a HyLAS Ion pump action belt fed breach loading revolver musket Bolter or some other such nonsense gun for the Votann.

Muzzle loading pump action gatling laser. Not a doubt in my mind.

Looks like we going to have more Votann soon then!
Got to catch them all.

I mean, is it really any surprise to anyone that there's gonna be a LoV range expansion sooner rather than later?

 Nazrak wrote:
I mean, is it really any surprise to anyone that there's gonna be a LoV range expansion sooner rather than later?

Not even slightly. I hope they bring back the iron eagle gyrocopter as the flyer - in my head it would look a bit like the Adeptus Mechanicus Arcaeopter crossed with the Space Marine Stormtalon.

I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

But how else would they sell you two Codices inside of 18 months?

Two different covers, duh.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

They cant do it, I have waited 2 months for some boxes to be in stock. Cant see them releasing more in one go.

Not just that but customers have finite finances. If they release too much in one go not only is it harder on GW's production to keep up, but there's far more chance that they will get more extreme swings of high and low selling models because people run out of money and can't buy any more volume in one go.

So the popular stuff sells just as strongly and the less popular (for whatever reason) sells even worse because its competing with the popular and the fact that its so much all at the same time.


A staggered release allows a portion of the faction to gain traction, get established and smooths out production and sales rates. It also means that the second waves reinforces the first; it gives a huge boost in sales for those who are already bought into the army and it gives a second boost from those who needed "just a little more convincing" to get on.




Especially when its a brand new army and they don't have an extensive range of existing models.

Sometimes you can argue that more might have worked out better when some design choices get questioned. For example Luminieth in AoS had the "hammer elves" and "Cow elves" themes that people were a little unsure of because they were new and different. The second wave, whilst being just as wild and varied, also introduced some more "typical elf" things that got more people interested. In the end GW gets the same customers just spread out.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Two different covers, duh.

Malibu Grombrindal w/ new hat.

Overread wrote:Not just that but customers have finite finances. If they release too much in one go not only is it harder on GW's production to keep up, but there's far more chance that they will get more extreme swings of high and low selling models because people run out of money and can't buy any more volume in one go.

So the popular stuff sells just as strongly and the less popular (for whatever reason) sells even worse because its competing with the popular and the fact that its so much all at the same time.


A staggered release allows a portion of the faction to gain traction, get established and smooths out production and sales rates. It also means that the second waves reinforces the first; it gives a huge boost in sales for those who are already bought into the army and it gives a second boost from those who needed "just a little more convincing" to get on.

Staggered release also allows to throw the 'emergency brake' for a hypothetical third wave if the 1st wave is a total flop. Also, as you said, it smooth out both the liquidity income of the company and the expenditure of the customers, it lowers the barrier to entry for the new faction a little bit, leads to overall higher earnings etc.

Also, and probably very important: it makes the faction feel supported in a way that a splash release followed by multiple years of nothing but maybe a character clampack and a couple of BL novels just does not. I remember the early 4th-mid 5th edition times when a favourite pastime of hobbyists was speculation about which faction was 'dead' and smaller factions like Sororitas or Dark Eldar had literally no releases other than reboxes for years, in some edge cases even close to a decade. A handful of stuff now and then is probably much better for customer retention and overall engagement with the universe in general.

That's a good point about factions feeling supported. Wargamers are long term customers. If their faction or game goes without company attention for X amount of years, the wargamer gets worried.

Its worse when armies get ignored to the point of falling behind with the rules too (as did happen with armies like Dark Eldar); but no models means the company isn't investing into that army. The company isn't showing faith in the sales and support of the army and thus a potential customer worries that their own investment in time and money might not be rewarded and might even be punished with the removal of that army.



We've also seen it happen, unpopular games that don't sell and dwindle in sales volume get shelved. Companies that can't sell get closed down and companies not investing into a product line are in an unhealthy position; or at least that product line is.




Staggering releases plays out the hand the parent company has and it indeed makes a faction feel more supported.




I disagree with your point about the emergency brakes. If GW has a second wave to go out chances are its already well past emergency brakes time. What instead I think happens is that GW can adjust the release schedule within a little. If the initial release isn't working perhaps they speed up the next wave to increase interest; perhaps they refocus their marketing or address problems - for that they have to understand why its failing and there might be multiple reasons even up to including that GW did nothing wrong, but their new army launched the same week/month as something else major in the market or outside the market (eg Lumineth launched only a tiny bit before lockdowns and the pandemic).


GW can't just stop a release once the wheels are in motion (at least not without taking a big financial hit). But they can slow or speed them up; they can shift things around a bit. They can also use other resources like marketing, rules updates, videos, artwork, promotional elements etc.... to help push an army up in popularity etc...

Tsagualsa wrote:
Staggered release also allows to throw the 'emergency brake' for a hypothetical third wave if the 1st wave is a total flop. Also, as you said, it smooth out both the liquidity income of the company and the expenditure of the customers, it lowers the barrier to entry for the new faction a little bit, leads to overall higher earnings etc.

Which is probably what happened with Deathwatch after incompetence of Kelly and Cruddace killed the new, shiny SM range (I mean, these clowns not only released garbage rules for them, but then gave them straight nerfs for FIVE publications in a row ), something that really takes talent.

 Overread wrote:
I disagree with your point about the emergency brakes. If GW has a second wave to go out chances are its already well past emergency brakes time

Counterpoint - after mass sellouts of DW when people realized the army is not only not getting buffed but Kelly makes it worse with each publication, DW got zero releases later. Not only no second wave, no nothing. They just gave up and shoved unfluffy codex units into army with no thought how they should interact with it (no special ammo or DW wargear access, for one, which is monumentally stupid - imagine 70% of Blood Angels units not getting Red Thirst or assault bonuses, it's literally that bad). Then DW were the only army to not get a HQ model when all other SM supplements got one, including some literally whos. Then to add insult to injury, GW released Ventris model, one of the worst BL characters, who, despite dripping with DW icons, has no actual DW rules (or you know, a DW helmet and legal loadout so he could be taken as generic character despite ample space on sprue)...

GW can't just stop a release once the wheels are in motion (at least not without taking a big financial hit). But they can slow or speed them up; they can shift things around a bit. They can also use other resources like marketing, rules updates, videos, artwork, promotional elements etc.... to help push an army up in popularity etc...

Except they absolutely can. Look at Rumor Engine, plenty of 2+ year long rumors, unless GW wanted to hype them that long in advance there were a lot of stuff that got pushed back for a really long time. Then there is Titanicus, game that got awfully quiet after two dud (thanks to bad rules/loadouts) releases of big centerpiece models. Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

 Irbis wrote:
Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Purely out of interest, is there any real evidence that they actually cancelled planned expansions for Cursed City? I have not followed that particular disaster closely, could you provide a link where i can read up on it please?

Irbis wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Except they absolutely can. Look at Rumor Engine, plenty of 2+ year long rumors, unless GW wanted to hype them that long in advance there were a lot of stuff that got pushed back for a really long time. Then there is Titanicus, game that got awfully quiet after two dud (thanks to bad rules/loadouts) releases of big centerpiece models. Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Eh I'm willing to cut GW some slack over the last 2 year as Covid destroyed many many plans. That wasn't GW (nor any firm) working as normal. We know that things got delayed and shifted around. Things like big edition releases that coudl not be moved; new reprints (all those extra Indomitus prints couldn't just come without any sacrifice to production) and more. This messed things up way beyond normal.
And as I said GW can move things around a bit, but I very much doubt that once a line has gone past design phase and is into mould production and card stock ordering and such, that GW can just put the brakes on. At least not without suffering more financial loss than a release that perhaps doesn't sell at a stella rate.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Purely out of interest, is there any real evidence that they actually cancelled planned expansions for Cursed City? I have not followed that particular disaster closely, could you provide a link where i can read up on it please?

Cursed City is an utter mess. We've really no idea why it wound up like it did, but it did and its a huge messy release. I would not be surprised if they had cancelled more releases and expansions - certainly Black Fortress got more expansions.
Part of it might be that CC was designed to be released alongside soulblight so things like Hounds and new leaders were going to appear in expansions at discount then as commercial model releases later and Soulblight coming out sooner and CC being delayed wound up with GW deciding to just cut the CC project. Whatever happened we can tell that it did not go according to plan, but also that its an extreme exception