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There's an exact one in the Hearthkyn sprue and a very similar one in the Hernkyn biker sprue.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Definitely Leagues of Votann. Looks like we are definitely getting a scout unit, which is awesome.

That’s pretty much identical to the current accessories on the votann stuff. It’s a nice hint of more units coming. No hi t as to what they are though.

Which kit is it from? Because if it’s the hover bikes, I reckon we will be seeing at least an Anniversary Model coming in the same vein.

The axe from the Pioneers has a second strap across the handle at the halfway point of the first diamond pattern so it's not that one it's very like the one from the Heartkyn Warriors box

The pic I showed is from warriors, basic troops. Maybe another “temporal” anomaly form the rumour engine???

Rotary Lascannon thing.

Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

More clearly votann stuff, as in it already exists, could they be hinting more heavily at a second wave???

Andykp wrote:
More clearly votann stuff, as in it already exists, could they be hinting more heavily at a second wave???

Probably, the Votann are still missing a lot of the stuff a contemporary army has as a matter of course; there's room for a dual-build flyer, for some heavy walkers or walker-analogues, more special characters, a kill-team, support/artillery and the customary flashy centerpiec/diorama model at least. That's easily a second wave right there.

I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

 Olthannon wrote:
Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

It also matches the setup style of the autocannons on the Stalker AA for Marines.

Just sayin'. It's a STC design not strictly a Votann one.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Hernkyn Pioneer that.

So maybe a special character for them on the hover trike. It's unlikely to be used like a SAW.

It also matches the setup style of the autocannons on the Stalker AA for Marines.

Just sayin'. It's a STC design not strictly a Votann one.

It's not a complete match for the Stalker - the Stalker has much shorter&thicker barrels and three separate muzzle brakes, while this gun seems to have a single, albeit tri-lobed muzzle brake block:



It's much much closer to the Herkyn special weapon, to the point it may actually be a reused asset:



Although the rumour engine pic makes it not totally clear if the disc connecting the three barrels is actually round like on the Hernkyn weapon or triangular - it looks triangular, but that may be due to it being black&white and the angle of the shot.

I see we're just glossing over the whole "it's a STC design, not a Votann one" thing.

That's the whole point of my post. It has elements of a STC design, not strictly the Votann one.

For all we know, it might be a Mechanicus piece with a multilaser.

Come on guys... I know we like to argue about everything, but like... come on.

Given the last picture was a votann tool that we already have in the hearthkyn box, and this is remarkably similar to the gun in the pioneers and land fortress. I am happy to say this votann. Could be marine or admech I suppose. But really looks like they are punching the whole “more votann coming” line and not very subtly.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I see we're just glossing over the whole "it's a STC design, not a Votann one" thing.

That's the whole point of my post. It has elements of a STC design, not strictly the Votann one.

For all we know, it might be a Mechanicus piece with a multilaser.

Being an STC design doesn't mean that both an Imperial and Votann versions of something with a shared STC origin will look exactly the same, only there might be similarities in design. It's quite clearly the Votann weapon as it matches their weapon patterns.

 Overread wrote:
I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

No doubt a HyLAS Ion pump action belt fed breach loading revolver musket Bolter or some other such nonsense gun for the Votann.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'd say that looks like a triple barrel gun. One on the top then two underneath.

No doubt a HyLAS Ion pump action belt fed breach loading revolver musket Bolter or some other such nonsense gun for the Votann.

Muzzle loading pump action gatling laser. Not a doubt in my mind.

Looks like we going to have more Votann soon then!
Got to catch them all.

I mean, is it really any surprise to anyone that there's gonna be a LoV range expansion sooner rather than later?

 Nazrak wrote:
I mean, is it really any surprise to anyone that there's gonna be a LoV range expansion sooner rather than later?

Not even slightly. I hope they bring back the iron eagle gyrocopter as the flyer - in my head it would look a bit like the Adeptus Mechanicus Arcaeopter crossed with the Space Marine Stormtalon.

I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

But how else would they sell you two Codices inside of 18 months?

Two different covers, duh.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do wish they’d held off and done a single, larger release.

They cant do it, I have waited 2 months for some boxes to be in stock. Cant see them releasing more in one go.

Not just that but customers have finite finances. If they release too much in one go not only is it harder on GW's production to keep up, but there's far more chance that they will get more extreme swings of high and low selling models because people run out of money and can't buy any more volume in one go.

So the popular stuff sells just as strongly and the less popular (for whatever reason) sells even worse because its competing with the popular and the fact that its so much all at the same time.


A staggered release allows a portion of the faction to gain traction, get established and smooths out production and sales rates. It also means that the second waves reinforces the first; it gives a huge boost in sales for those who are already bought into the army and it gives a second boost from those who needed "just a little more convincing" to get on.




Especially when its a brand new army and they don't have an extensive range of existing models.

Sometimes you can argue that more might have worked out better when some design choices get questioned. For example Luminieth in AoS had the "hammer elves" and "Cow elves" themes that people were a little unsure of because they were new and different. The second wave, whilst being just as wild and varied, also introduced some more "typical elf" things that got more people interested. In the end GW gets the same customers just spread out.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Two different covers, duh.

Malibu Grombrindal w/ new hat.

Overread wrote:Not just that but customers have finite finances. If they release too much in one go not only is it harder on GW's production to keep up, but there's far more chance that they will get more extreme swings of high and low selling models because people run out of money and can't buy any more volume in one go.

So the popular stuff sells just as strongly and the less popular (for whatever reason) sells even worse because its competing with the popular and the fact that its so much all at the same time.


A staggered release allows a portion of the faction to gain traction, get established and smooths out production and sales rates. It also means that the second waves reinforces the first; it gives a huge boost in sales for those who are already bought into the army and it gives a second boost from those who needed "just a little more convincing" to get on.

Staggered release also allows to throw the 'emergency brake' for a hypothetical third wave if the 1st wave is a total flop. Also, as you said, it smooth out both the liquidity income of the company and the expenditure of the customers, it lowers the barrier to entry for the new faction a little bit, leads to overall higher earnings etc.

Also, and probably very important: it makes the faction feel supported in a way that a splash release followed by multiple years of nothing but maybe a character clampack and a couple of BL novels just does not. I remember the early 4th-mid 5th edition times when a favourite pastime of hobbyists was speculation about which faction was 'dead' and smaller factions like Sororitas or Dark Eldar had literally no releases other than reboxes for years, in some edge cases even close to a decade. A handful of stuff now and then is probably much better for customer retention and overall engagement with the universe in general.

That's a good point about factions feeling supported. Wargamers are long term customers. If their faction or game goes without company attention for X amount of years, the wargamer gets worried.

Its worse when armies get ignored to the point of falling behind with the rules too (as did happen with armies like Dark Eldar); but no models means the company isn't investing into that army. The company isn't showing faith in the sales and support of the army and thus a potential customer worries that their own investment in time and money might not be rewarded and might even be punished with the removal of that army.



We've also seen it happen, unpopular games that don't sell and dwindle in sales volume get shelved. Companies that can't sell get closed down and companies not investing into a product line are in an unhealthy position; or at least that product line is.




Staggering releases plays out the hand the parent company has and it indeed makes a faction feel more supported.




I disagree with your point about the emergency brakes. If GW has a second wave to go out chances are its already well past emergency brakes time. What instead I think happens is that GW can adjust the release schedule within a little. If the initial release isn't working perhaps they speed up the next wave to increase interest; perhaps they refocus their marketing or address problems - for that they have to understand why its failing and there might be multiple reasons even up to including that GW did nothing wrong, but their new army launched the same week/month as something else major in the market or outside the market (eg Lumineth launched only a tiny bit before lockdowns and the pandemic).


GW can't just stop a release once the wheels are in motion (at least not without taking a big financial hit). But they can slow or speed them up; they can shift things around a bit. They can also use other resources like marketing, rules updates, videos, artwork, promotional elements etc.... to help push an army up in popularity etc...

Tsagualsa wrote:
Staggered release also allows to throw the 'emergency brake' for a hypothetical third wave if the 1st wave is a total flop. Also, as you said, it smooth out both the liquidity income of the company and the expenditure of the customers, it lowers the barrier to entry for the new faction a little bit, leads to overall higher earnings etc.

Which is probably what happened with Deathwatch after incompetence of Kelly and Cruddace killed the new, shiny SM range (I mean, these clowns not only released garbage rules for them, but then gave them straight nerfs for FIVE publications in a row ), something that really takes talent.

 Overread wrote:
I disagree with your point about the emergency brakes. If GW has a second wave to go out chances are its already well past emergency brakes time

Counterpoint - after mass sellouts of DW when people realized the army is not only not getting buffed but Kelly makes it worse with each publication, DW got zero releases later. Not only no second wave, no nothing. They just gave up and shoved unfluffy codex units into army with no thought how they should interact with it (no special ammo or DW wargear access, for one, which is monumentally stupid - imagine 70% of Blood Angels units not getting Red Thirst or assault bonuses, it's literally that bad). Then DW were the only army to not get a HQ model when all other SM supplements got one, including some literally whos. Then to add insult to injury, GW released Ventris model, one of the worst BL characters, who, despite dripping with DW icons, has no actual DW rules (or you know, a DW helmet and legal loadout so he could be taken as generic character despite ample space on sprue)...

GW can't just stop a release once the wheels are in motion (at least not without taking a big financial hit). But they can slow or speed them up; they can shift things around a bit. They can also use other resources like marketing, rules updates, videos, artwork, promotional elements etc.... to help push an army up in popularity etc...

Except they absolutely can. Look at Rumor Engine, plenty of 2+ year long rumors, unless GW wanted to hype them that long in advance there were a lot of stuff that got pushed back for a really long time. Then there is Titanicus, game that got awfully quiet after two dud (thanks to bad rules/loadouts) releases of big centerpiece models. Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

 Irbis wrote:
Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Purely out of interest, is there any real evidence that they actually cancelled planned expansions for Cursed City? I have not followed that particular disaster closely, could you provide a link where i can read up on it please?

Irbis wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Except they absolutely can. Look at Rumor Engine, plenty of 2+ year long rumors, unless GW wanted to hype them that long in advance there were a lot of stuff that got pushed back for a really long time. Then there is Titanicus, game that got awfully quiet after two dud (thanks to bad rules/loadouts) releases of big centerpiece models. Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Eh I'm willing to cut GW some slack over the last 2 year as Covid destroyed many many plans. That wasn't GW (nor any firm) working as normal. We know that things got delayed and shifted around. Things like big edition releases that coudl not be moved; new reprints (all those extra Indomitus prints couldn't just come without any sacrifice to production) and more. This messed things up way beyond normal.
And as I said GW can move things around a bit, but I very much doubt that once a line has gone past design phase and is into mould production and card stock ordering and such, that GW can just put the brakes on. At least not without suffering more financial loss than a release that perhaps doesn't sell at a stella rate.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Then you have Cursed City with all expansions canned and two lazy no effort, no model ones being released instead. GW doesn't take a hit because they have things coming for multiple systems and if they decide to hold back release X, they have Z, Y, W, and Q already ready to go.

Purely out of interest, is there any real evidence that they actually cancelled planned expansions for Cursed City? I have not followed that particular disaster closely, could you provide a link where i can read up on it please?

Cursed City is an utter mess. We've really no idea why it wound up like it did, but it did and its a huge messy release. I would not be surprised if they had cancelled more releases and expansions - certainly Black Fortress got more expansions.
Part of it might be that CC was designed to be released alongside soulblight so things like Hounds and new leaders were going to appear in expansions at discount then as commercial model releases later and Soulblight coming out sooner and CC being delayed wound up with GW deciding to just cut the CC project. Whatever happened we can tell that it did not go according to plan, but also that its an extreme exception

The biggest, maybe main flaw of Cursed City was the lack of communication.

It received justifiable hype leading up to release. The livestream confirmed it wasn’t a “one and done” release, and would remain on-shelf for a while.


Then?

Then it wasn’t.

Now. Let’s all be perfectly fair. The world was far, far from normal at the time. It all went tits up and became a mess. Fair dos and fair enough. Supply lines were screwed, and nobody knew what might happen next.

But.

GW just went super silent. Nothing. Nada. Nowt. Zilch. Zip. Zero. Bugger all. Sweet Fanny Adam’s was said.

The it returned.

All they needed to do was say “hey guys, we’re really sorry but due to the current poop parade of the world, we can’t make more Cursed City. But we will, as soon as we can, we just can’t say when”

Sure folk would’ve moaned regardless, because for some folk that’s their default state for reasons best known to themselves. But to say nothing was pretty rude.

And I say that as one of the jammy sods that got a copy via pre-order.