Dudeface wrote: It's just... all over the place. Why is the carnifex option central still, whilst the warriors got blatted?
Melee weapons got consolidated all over, not just tyranids. Crushing claws survived because they're the faction equivalent of a power fist.
Ranged weapons largely stayed, unless they were really special already, like the raveners.
The biggest problem with the carnifex is if you aren't going dakka or crushing claws, you're dumb to take one since the S-K is so much better at talons (and bio-plasma). (Points may adjust that feeling, but there's a huge difference between the carnifex and scream-killer).
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
I... don't get it. I get that some people don't like it, but this is what they've been advertising since the announcement. Its consistent with everything they've said and everything they've shown off. This isn't half-assed, this is the design goal. This is 10th edition, and what everyone should expect going forward.
Dudeface wrote: It's just... all over the place. Why is the carnifex option central still, whilst the warriors got blatted?
Melee weapons got consolidated all over, not just tyranids. Crushing claws survived because they're the faction equivalent of a power fist.
Ranged weapons largely stayed, unless they were really special already, like the raveners.
The biggest problem with the carnifex is if you aren't going dakka or crushing claws, you're dumb to take one since the S-K is so much better at talons (and bio-plasma). (Points may adjust that feeling, but there's a huge difference between the carnifex and scream-killer).
Scything talons, extra scything talons and claws is a very different implementation to those seen on the tyrant who shares a lot of the same weapons options. Likewise why not consolidate down talons and extra talons? It's just a bit all over the place.
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
I... don't get it. I get that some people don't like it, but this is what they've been advertising since the announcement. Its consistent with everything they've said and everything they've shown off. This isn't half-assed, this is the design goal. This is 10th edition, and what everyone should expect going forward.
I disagree, there's a level of level application of change they haven't done. There's some models that have options beyond what others do for seemingly no reason. I'm not bothered by the warriors being split, I'm not fussed about the melee weapons being consolidated even if they aren't on the fex. I am bothered that the relatively similar ranged bioweapons didn't get consolidated down, while the melee did for example. Raveners got their thorax guns consolidated down, which were previously the same basic weapon choices as the warriors.
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
I... don't get it. I get that some people don't like it, but this is what they've been advertising since the announcement. Its consistent with everything they've said and everything they've shown off. This isn't half-assed, this is the design goal. This is 10th edition, and what everyone should expect going forward.
Nah, missing models entirely is not a design goal, it's a symptom of a pretty shoddy work process. As are other faults on datasheets, like some demons missing the Psyker keyword even though they have [Psychic] weapons and abilities, which the core rules say can only be used by Psykers. I'm not lamenting the reduction of options etc., as these are clearly actually design goals (whit which one does not have to agree, but needs to accept that they exist), just the ommissions and generally unfinished nature of this particular product. But as i said, these will (imho of course) get replaced in a couple of months anyway, so i won't sweat it just yet.
Dudeface wrote: It's just... all over the place. Why is the carnifex option central still, whilst the warriors got blatted?
Melee weapons got consolidated all over, not just tyranids. Crushing claws survived because they're the faction equivalent of a power fist.
Ranged weapons largely stayed, unless they were really special already, like the raveners.
The biggest problem with the carnifex is if you aren't going dakka or crushing claws, you're dumb to take one since the S-K is so much better at talons (and bio-plasma). (Points may adjust that feeling, but there's a huge difference between the carnifex and scream-killer).
Scything talons, extra scything talons and claws is a very different implementation to those seen on the tyrant who shares a lot of the same weapons options. Likewise why not consolidate down talons and extra talons? It's just a bit all over the place.
Huh? The tyrant is the same (give or take less weapon options and a better default set). Its not quite as on the nose with 'extra scything talons,' but that's what the monstrous talons are (they're a bad option that exist so people don't have to pull apart their models, even though they should, in the sense that double talons are bad on both models).
The winged tyrant is obviously locked into the leg talons.
Talons and extra talons on the carnifex are there for the current builds. There's a big difference between 6 attacks and 8, or crushing claws +4 talon attacks rather than 2.
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
I... don't get it. I get that some people don't like it, but this is what they've been advertising since the announcement. Its consistent with everything they've said and everything they've shown off. This isn't half-assed, this is the design goal. This is 10th edition, and what everyone should expect going forward.
Nah, missing models entirely is not a design goal, it's a symptom of a pretty shoddy work process. As are other faults on datasheets, like some demons missing the Psyker keyword even though they have [Psychic] weapons and abilities, which the core rules say can only be used by Psykers. I'm not lamenting the reduction of options etc., as these are clearly actually design goals (whit which one does not have to agree, but needs to accept that they exist), just the ommissions and generally unfinished nature of this particular product. But as i said, these will (imho of course) get replaced in a couple of months anyway, so i won't sweat it just yet.
Ah. I wasn't thinking of a few typos and what seems like a last-minute rules redesign on the neurogaunts.
I was going with the more general complaints and the idea that we'll magically see a 'for realsies' version of warriors, carnfiexes and etc in... ~3 months.
Especially since for most armies, the turnaround won't be 3 months. They'll be using the initial cards for a year or two, with three for some of truly unlucky.
When I have more time - and maybe when we have more cards - I'll start looking for rules which appear as frequently as some of these abilities and therefore could have been Abilities/USRs as well.
6 total instances of re-rolls in the index. Perfectly Adapted Enhancement, OOE, Melee Warriors get two, Genestealers, and... Exocrine. Speaking of Exocrine, if the points aren't too bad, I think they're gonna be kinda auto-include again.
Also, once again points dependent, Biovores are looking to be pretty good in the index. d3 shots with heavy, blast, indirect fire and devastating wounds.
Quite liking the Lictor. Fairly fragile, but with Precision, a decent number of attacks at a reasonable Strength, D2 and -2 Save Mod it should be some pause for thought against all but Special Characters.
I think I’d want to send in an escort unit should it be looking to scoff someone within a unit, but depending on points and exactly what it is I intend to scoff, I may be OK with using it as a disposable asset.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Nice to see they're further "balancing" Hive Guard because they were very powerful in 8th Edition.
Hive Guard look pretty ok to me? Don't need LOS to kick off overwatch so it's basically a free shooting phase with no pentalty.
Dude, c'mon. There's plenty to like in this book. This is not the battle you have to fight. Hive Guard went from 2 shots of S8 -2 D d3 shooting twice with no LOS at the height of their power to 4 shots of S5 -1 D1. It's just not worth defending. They got nerfed in the 9e codex, and while they get more shots now, I don't see how you'd call this anything other than another nerf. They picked up some anti-infantry capabilities that Nids don't really need and are likely done more efficiently by a number of other units.
Ok, so, I've gone over the whole thing now. I was worried about what we'd lose. It never occurred to me just how much we'd lose.
From the top:
1. The Heavy Venom Cannon has the same strength as the Venom Cannon. The only difference is D3 vs D2. They both have d3 shots. feth me that's bad (I've seen some people start calling it the "Casino Cannon" ). 2. Winged Tyranid Primes are a separate choice, but Tyranid Primes are not for some reason. 3. Tervigons have lost their ability to be shielded near units of Termagants. Given that shielding characters is written right into the core rules you'd think that'd make the jump over as you wouldn't need special rules, you just give it Lone Operative near Termagants. But apparently not. 4. Tyranid Primes are now sergeants in Warrior Squads. That invalidates all sorts of minis I own... 5. Tyranid Warriors are down from 9 to 6 per unit. 6. Tyranid Warriors lost all of their melee weapon options. 7. Termagants and Hormagaunts down to 20 max per unit. 8. Lictors now come in units of one (but I think we all expected that!). 9. Pyrovores are just kinda lame now. Hopefully a new model (and rules) are in their future. 10. Haruspex no longer heals himself by eating people, which is a shame. 11. The Neurogaunt Nodebeast still doesn't do anything. 12. Neurothropes are now Sergeants in Zoanthrope squads. 13. Genestealers are kinda just kinda lame now. Hopefully a new model (and rules) are in their future. 14. Raveners lost all their ranged weapon options. 15. Trygon Prime just... isn't there anymore! It's gone. Completely removed. Doesn't exist. 16. Carnifexes are back to being as skilled in melee as Guardsmen, hitting on a 4+ with everything. They also have 2 fewer wounds than Screamer Killers. 17. Thornbacks are... also gone! No longer in the unit list. 18. Hive Guard, once the deadliest and spammiest unit in 8th Edition, were nerfed into the ground in 9th. But, GW's memory still ain't so hot, so it's time to punish them once again for being powerful 2 editions ago. Somehow Palpatine has returned they found a way to nerf Impaler Cannons even more, less strength, damage and AP. The only saving grace is they had the presence of mind to make them Heavy Weapons. 19. Tyrannocytes lost all their different weapons, and apparently can't arrive past turn 3 even though that isn't part of the reserves rules in 10th anymore... 20. Sporocyst lost all its weapon options, and it can't Deep Strike. WTF??? :wat: 21. One I missed at the start: The Broodlord doesn't have Synapse. Uh-oh... 22. And finally, the following units lost their 2+ saves: Exocrines. Haruspex. Tyrant Guard.
To be fair, Tyrant Guard are up to T8, which is pretty nifty. Makes me wonder how tough the Wraithlord will end up being.
Dysartes wrote: When I have more time - and maybe when we have more cards - I'll start looking for rules which appear as frequently as some of these abilities and therefore could have been Abilities/USRs as well.
Tsagualsa wrote: Old One Eye can lead Carnifexes, but not Screamer-Killers, despite being a Screamer-Killer himself.
The Neurogaunt Nodebeast is still missing both profile and abilities.
Good job, GW, good job...
I think it's just the unit leader, like the Tyranid Warrior Prime. It doesn't get any special rules or abilities, but it's probably shown separately in the instructions.
Dudeface wrote: We can safely extrapolate that chaosistency is officially in charge of everything now.
I'm counting all of this as evidence that they half-assed the Index cards even more than usual, and that the first revision when the codex comes around is going to replace much of them.
Call it cope if you want to, but that's my take on it.
I... don't get it. I get that some people don't like it, but this is what they've been advertising since the announcement. Its consistent with everything they've said and everything they've shown off. This isn't half-assed, this is the design goal. This is 10th edition, and what everyone should expect going forward.
This is my take too. We saw the beginnings of it with the new Chaos and IG books last year and this is the obvious continuation of that same trajectory.
Gene St. Ealer wrote: Dude, c'mon. There's plenty to like in this book. This is not the battle you have to fight. Hive Guard went from 2 shots of S8 -2 D d3 shooting twice with no LOS at the height of their power to 4 shots of S5 -1 D1. It's just not worth defending. They got nerfed in the 9e codex, and while they get more shots now, I don't see how you'd call this anything other than another nerf. They picked up some anti-infantry capabilities that Nids don't really need and are likely done more efficiently by a number of other units.
Yes, it's a different gun. They also flipped the ranges on them. It just serves the roll differently now. Just because it's nerfed doesn't mean it's bad.
These big PDFs of datacards feel virtually unusuable. I am baffled why this is considered an improvement. I can at least see an argument that the printed versions can be flipped over, but in this format it just feels like the layout is half finished.
As suspected, I feel like they are getting the balance of where rules sits wrong here. When people wanted the game to be simpler I think what they meant is "you should be able to look at a model on the tabletop and have a reasonable stab at what it is able to do without an encyclopaedic knowledge of the faction's latest codex."
If anything, it feels like we have gone backwards on that. Boneswords now have different weapon profiles to claws on some models but not others, and I need to look at paper to find out which. Meanwhile the list of stratagems and special rules is... still actually quite long? This is more cognitive load of stuff to remember, not less. I don't think they're really meeting the design goals of this edition.
Parasite of Mortrex also lost Synapse. That's gotta be a mistake, right?
Also, I'm sad about the Toxicrene literally being a wet noodle monster. He deserved better.
That said, I'm really not bearish on these rules. There's plenty to like here. And I was already reconciled to plenty of the consolidation/forgetfulness, it's just what GW does.
Well there goes the idea of each detachment defining what's BattleLine...
Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.
Detachments change 3 things: detachment rule, strats, enhancements. Datacards are universal for that faction.
Well there goes the idea of each detachment defining what's BattleLine...
Yeah, I am not really sure what the point of the detachments are beyond the stratagems and enhancements. So... we just mathhammer the best one from each book and everyone uses that? Why wouldn't we?
Voss wrote: Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.
Because they said that there would be detachments for different types of armies, and a 1st Company army was given as an example. If Terminators aren't Battleline, and a 1st Company detachment doesn't make them Battleline, then you'd be limited in how many Terminators you can take in your 1st Company army. If they do an "Armoured Company" deatchment, and Russes aren't Battleline, how would you do an Armoured Company when Battleline are still infantry squads?
And just the other day they gave an example of a "Monster Mash" style Tyranid detachment. If Monsters aren't Battleline, yet the small bugs are, then it's just a regular Tyranid army with some different Strats/Enhancements.
As Scotty said above, if that's the case, people will just mathhammer out the most effective detachment and completely ignore the rest.
Detachments should have some influence on the army's structure, otherwise what's the damned point?
The Phazer wrote: These big PDFs of datacards feel virtually unusuable. I am baffled why this is considered an improvement. I can at least see an argument that the printed versions can be flipped over, but in this format it just feels like the layout is half finished.
As suspected, I feel like they are getting the balance of where rules sits wrong here. When people wanted the game to be simpler I think what they meant is "you should be able to look at a model on the tabletop and have a reasonable stab at what it is able to do without an encyclopaedic knowledge of the faction's latest codex."
If anything, it feels like we have gone backwards on that. Boneswords now have different weapon profiles to claws on some models but not others, and I need to look at paper to find out which. Meanwhile the list of stratagems and special rules is... still actually quite long? This is more cognitive load of stuff to remember, not less. I don't think they're really meeting the design goals of this edition.
The print versions they will sell are going to be so good. On the next 3 years of 10th each army will have several versions of these cards and they will all be sold in very affordable packs every time. What's not to like?
Voss wrote: Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.
Detachments change 3 things: detachment rule, strats, enhancements. Datacards are universal for that faction.
For myself, I thought the detachments would function in a similar way to the existing detachments concept. They would provide bonuses to certain army builds by allowing more of some units and fewer of others. But this just seems to be like the faction rules without having to paint them differently.
The Phazer wrote: These big PDFs of datacards feel virtually unusuable. I am baffled why this is considered an improvement. I can at least see an argument that the printed versions can be flipped over, but in this format it just feels like the layout is half finished.
Really? I like this pdf much better than cards that need to be sorted and flipped, or the current 9th edition datasheets.
The only problem here is the ordering of the units is wretched. Its reasonably functional up to gargoyles, then it just goes to hell.
(Though a quick check tells me it prints wrong- set to the card format rather than both part of the sheet as the top and bottom of a page)
The Phazer wrote: These big PDFs of datacards feel virtually unusuable. I am baffled why this is considered an improvement. I can at least see an argument that the printed versions can be flipped over, but in this format it just feels like the layout is half finished.
As suspected, I feel like they are getting the balance of where rules sits wrong here. When people wanted the game to be simpler I think what they meant is "you should be able to look at a model on the tabletop and have a reasonable stab at what it is able to do without an encyclopaedic knowledge of the faction's latest codex."
If anything, it feels like we have gone backwards on that. Boneswords now have different weapon profiles to claws on some models but not others, and I need to look at paper to find out which. Meanwhile the list of stratagems and special rules is... still actually quite long? This is more cognitive load of stuff to remember, not less. I don't think they're really meeting the design goals of this edition.
It's bad form to just say "this", but you nailed it here. The actual rules seem pretty reasonable but the usability and design goals that the rules team talked about are just not there.
IDK, I'm not really surprised, I don't want to criticize GW too harshly. These sorts of meta-goals or soft-goals are almost harder to achieve than the rules/datasheet balance (mathhammer is easy!) But yeah, I don't think they nailed it 100% this first time around.
NAVARRO wrote: The print versions they will sell are going to be so good. On the next 3 years of 10th each army will have several versions of these cards and they will all be sold in very affordable packs every time. What's not to like?
And these ones that came out today will no doubt be completely valid for years to come.
Its Maw deals nicely with ickle stuff. It’s claws deal with big tanks and other big things quite nicely.
But…nothing in between. Thankfully the Shovelling Claws come under Extra Attacks. Yet one of two sets of attacks aren’t going to fuss the natural target of the other.
Grasping Tongue being precision is pretty nice though. Not something I’d necessarily factor into a battle plan (1 attack at 12” isn’t something anyone should be basing a strategy around). But it does have some chance of hoiking out and eating a more threatening model.
Scottywan82 wrote: Did I miss something or do these files still not have points in them?
Mostly already answered, but you missed them saying datasheets wouldn't have points so that they didn't need to be touched if there was a points update.
I just wish it still got wounds back for eating people. That was such a cool rule.
That would be nice. But the more I think of it, the more I’m starting to really like the Haruspex. It’s kind of anti-everything, and if you pull off the ranged attack, you’ve some chance of killing off a support character before bundling into the unit proper.
It’d be sick if you could Precision specific models out of a standard unit (such as a Medic or Veteran Sargent) of course, but I’ll take being able to pick out characters as a close second, spesh if they’re low-mid level and thus more likely to be killed outright.
Yeah. Nice little all-rounder unit there. Tricky to put down without focussing on it too.
Hellebore wrote: I like that the character stalking lictor actually looks like a threat now. They and genestealers have always been my fav nids.
Now they just need to do a new model...
Oh. Free Rapid Ingress as well. That's rather neat. Kind of shame that they're capped at 3 total (plus death leaper).
Not sure about the other two holdouts- pyrovores and biovores. They seem... almost viable?
Pyrovores look pretty gakky IMO, but Biovores, well, they're certainly a contender now.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: True, but given we’re so far seeing a marked decrease in overall AP it may turn out to be not as marked a difference as current.
I kinda liked the Haruspex being this weird mindless thing that just rushes forward, shrugging off anything and eating things in its path, healing as it did. Now it doesn't do that at all.
Well there goes the idea of each detachment defining what's BattleLine...
Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.
Detachments change 3 things: detachment rule, strats, enhancements. Datacards are universal for that faction.
Detachment rule still can add Battleline keyword to datasheets.
Detachment rule still can add Battleline keyword to datasheets.
It will literally need to for several list archetypes to even work. Some factions don't have enough depth in their roster to function without taking 4+ of a single unit in a themed list.
I don't mind consolidated weapons but the implementation is bizarrely inconsistent. If GW cares about the difference between a Devourer and a Deathspitter, why don't they care about the difference between Boneswords and Rending Claws?
Still, some of these abilities look interesting and add a lot of flavor to what could otherwise be bland units, so I'll reserve judgment until I see how it all plays.
catbarf wrote: I don't mind consolidated weapons but the implementation is bizarrely inconsistent. If GW cares about the difference between a Devourer and a Deathspitter, why don't they care about the difference between Boneswords and Rending Claws?
Tyran wrote: The melee warrior datasheet is probably the biggest missed opportunity.
Although for some reason I just cannot care about the consolidated ravener profile.
Me neither. A fair number of Tyranid players cannot tell the difference between the Ravener weapon options, let alone opponents.
However I thought that boneswords were visually distinct enough to deserve a separate weapon profile. Would have preferred to see them remain as a D2 weapon with fewer attacks.
Voss wrote: Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.
Because they said that there would be detachments for different types of armies, and a 1st Company army was given as an example. If Terminators aren't Battleline, and a 1st Company detachment doesn't make them Battleline, then you'd be limited in how many Terminators you can take in your 1st Company army. If they do an "Armoured Company" deatchment, and Russes aren't Battleline, how would you do an Armoured Company when Battleline are still infantry squads?
And just the other day they gave an example of a "Monster Mash" style Tyranid detachment. If Monsters aren't Battleline, yet the small bugs are, then it's just a regular Tyranid army with some different Strats/Enhancements.
As Scotty said above, if that's the case, people will just mathhammer out the most effective detachment and completely ignore the rest.
Detachments should have some influence on the army's structure, otherwise what's the damned point?
Not that I like to defend GW, but they did mention that different detachments would switch around Battleline, so we would have to wait for the codex to see what gets changed.
What we're given with the super gracious free download that totally won't have any errors is a mere TAC main army. This is FINE for getting by initially, but the real problem is the fact they're still gonna sell codices and therefore some armies will be stuck with outdated rules.
EviscerationPlague wrote: This is FINE for getting by initially, but the real problem is the fact they're still gonna sell codices and therefore some armies will be stuck with outdated rules.
They've also said armies will be getting detachments in White Dwarf.
There's a lot of thing to hate, lots of change, but still some pretty interesting stuff! Can't wait for the point cost and a few other armies to see how bad we got it (or not).
Most of the big monster fight better than a Carnifex, and I'm talking the shooty/support ones Maleceptor, Exocrine, Tyrannofex, Tervigon, all hits on 3+, and some with pretty sweet attack profile all things considered!
Raveners seems fine, guns consolidation on them might be a good thing (again, need points).
Lost of Primes and Neurothropes suck for the variety. And I bought and built Prime in 9th since they gained access to Venom Cannon And Prime seems to be there just in name, no different wargears or stats.
Gargoyles ability is pretty Aeldarish too, love it.
The Trygon got half of the Mawloc ability; to be set up close to enemy but cannot charge when doing so (and just sitting there).
Twin link hurt the Harpy so bad, D3 shot only with the HVC.
Like the Sporocyst overwatch-style defense ability, it can shoot 4 times in that way and hits on 4+ now too! Guns on it where always too expensive (especially for hitting on 5+) so the consolidation helps here, and it got a lot tougher too! Maybe I'll finally be able to take mines out finally!
Each time a Tyranids model with this
A combo that may make ranged Warriors more useful with the nerf they have.
Hyper-adaptation makes an attack that targets an
enemy Character unit, if a Critical Hit is scored, that
attack has the [PRECISION] ability.
PRECISION= When targeting an Attached unit, the attacking
model’s player can have the attack allocated
to a Character model in that unit visible to
the bearer.
With shotting warriors with a flying prime with SUSTAINED HITS 1 add PRECISION as the detachment pick allows us to snipe SM characters and leaders out effectively? the HV and ST canons seam to make makeshift sniper unit as well with some punch.
The hive tyrants can hand this out as without the prime attached, though a stratagem. This can be done to two unit a turn it looks like. once for no 0-CP spent. Makes units of 6 look nicer even with the nerf.
Have to say I'm not shocked at them reducing gaunt unit sizes down to 20 - we've seen the same massive cut of model numbers in AoS (way more there). I think GW is trying to reign in the big infantry/unit blocks somewhat as they can be a barrier to entry. They can look freaking awesome; but also be a barrier to newbies getting armies.
Biggest sadness is seeing so many close combat weapons lost. Esp on the warrior when they split them into close combat and ranged variations. At the very least I was expecting to see them split warriors and then have close combat weapons that let you specialise them into say anti armour or anti chaff and such.
Good thing magnets exist because who knows next edition it could all change and back come rending claws
So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?
Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it. It just seems kind of odd - I can get the Mawloc, as letting it deep strike close and forcing mortal wounds on a ton of enemies is probably too strong, but what exactly is the design plan for the Trygon? I mean, it can fire its gun from outside of 9", so its not like the closer range is doing anything for it there. Like I'd get it if it were able to say bring a unit via the tunnels with it, but as it stands it just doesn't seem to have a purpose beyond area denial.
Overread wrote: Have to say I'm not shocked at them reducing gaunt unit sizes down to 20 - we've seen the same massive cut of model numbers in AoS (way more there). I think GW is trying to reign in the big infantry/unit blocks somewhat as they can be a barrier to entry. They can look freaking awesome; but also be a barrier to newbies getting armies.
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Shadow Walker wrote: Red Terror is gone. Do you think it will be a squad leader for Raveners in case they would receive new kit?
Seeing how Prime and Neurothrope are barely relevant to their units (Prime are dead in all but name, Neurothrope are there for 1 ability within 6", not a place you want your Zoanthrope to be most of the time), I wouldn't see a point to seeing the Red Terror return in that format. It would need to be something in-between a Ravener and a Trygon/Mawloc to have any hope of having a role in the army.
I was surprised to see how few ranged weapons featured Assault/Heavy/Pistol/Rapid Fire - a definite shake-up between editions, more-so than I thought. I'm not sure whether to be surprised or not that Tyranids don't have an Anti-Monster weapon.
A lot of bare-bones melee profiles, too.
* - Defined as having a different name and/or different Abilities, not just different numbers. For example, "Xenos claws and teeth" and "Xenos claws and teeth [SUSTAINED HITS 1]" are defined as distinct. Weapons/powers with multiple profiles and different Abilities (such as Warp Blast) will be included multiple times.
Platuan4th wrote: Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.
Platuan4th wrote: Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.
More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.
Platuan4th wrote: Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.
More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.
On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.
Platuan4th wrote: Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.
More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.
On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.
Oh god, it's going to be 1 ork mob armed with "Ork Shooty Weapons" and "Ork Choppy Weapons"
Haruspex is the one that’s most caught my eye. Just a nice all-rounder with no easy counter. You can’t reliably tar pit it. Trying to send in a bubble wrapped heavy hitter may not pay off. And it looks tough enough to need some concentrated firepower to drop it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It does feel like Nids lack solid anti-tank other than the Bio Cannon. But….with Objective Control, I’m thinking focusing on enemy infantry may be the general order of the day, and Nids look like they’ll be able to do that fairly nicely, as we certainly don’t hurt for ways to bump off bog standard infantry.
I thought the SOP for bugs when facing armour was to send in genestealers or similar with some sort of rending close assault ability and just go all "tin opener" on them?
I mean yet you can try to trade blows at range, I mean gives you something to do while the genestealers get into position but with bugs its "quantity has a quality all of its own" etc, go in, roll a lot of dice, with hopefully decent stats and eat them
more squishy stuff will regret getting close and the board is small enough to run the enemy out of space before they run you out of bodies, hopefully, some of the bigger stuff is nice, carnifex in "tin opener" configuration has always been fun
I do worry about the game though, I can see a future where you have a codex for each marine chapter and then "Codex: Everything else" with "Xenos melee weapon", "Xenos ranged weapon" and maybe a "heavy" version of each
Platuan4th wrote: Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.
Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.
More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.
On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.
Nah, it's GW, they'll allow only that specific mix of weapons.
kurhanik wrote: Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it.
It's like whomever wrote the rules for those two units got them mixed up and forgot the Trygon Prime was a thing at the same time.
kurhanik wrote: Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it.
It's like whomever wrote the rules for those two units got them mixed up and forgot the Trygon Prime was a thing at the same time.
Only way the Trygon ability will make sense will be with a "deepstrike" detachment from the codex that will have rules/strats to go along with it. As it is on it's own it quite useless.
kurhanik wrote: So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?
It is gone.
Makes sense right? It was meant to fill out the HQ selection, a few extra models have been added to the range so I guess they figured it's not needed any more.
Skywave wrote: Only way the Trygon ability will make sense will be with a "deepstrike" detachment from the codex that will have rules/strats to go along with it. As it is on it's own it quite useless.
It's useful for blocking movement (especially down tight corridors), ambushing onto objectives (which are now huge) to out OC small units, and also for fitting it into finnicky spots where it can threaten something vital and make an opponent REALLY think of if they're okay with letting it live.
I'm not saying it's amazing or game breaking, but it sure as gak aint useless.
Dysartes wrote: When I have more time - and maybe when we have more cards - I'll start looking for rules which appear as frequently as some of these abilities and therefore could have been Abilities/USRs as well.
Not if I beat you to it.
The more the merrier - from going over the Tyranid cards, I've got eight strong contenders, and another couple of possibilities.
Not saying they all show up in 'Nids enough to justify USRs from that alone, but they're things I think we'll see recycled across the other datacards with different names.
Yeah, how often they appear across all the data cards is the main part. If there's one that just appears like 4 times but only for Tyranids, then big deal. But if it's appearing 4 times per army, and every army has it, then yeah, it should be a USR.
kurhanik wrote: So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?
It is gone.
Makes sense right? It was meant to fill out the HQ selection, a few extra models have been added to the range so I guess they figured it's not needed any more.
Maybe you can take the 'Synaptic Linchpin' Enhancement on a Trygon? Do we know how these are selected and bought?
H.B.M.C. wrote: It was nice to have an HQ choice that brought with it a unique play style, and had an unusual theme. A tunneller army, with a tunneller leader.
Not having it there is a damned shame.
Probably leaving design space for the re-imagined Red Terror- like the Neurotyrant but snake bodied. I did like my trygon primes though..
kurhanik wrote: So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?
It is gone.
Makes sense right? It was meant to fill out the HQ selection, a few extra models have been added to the range so I guess they figured it's not needed any more.
Maybe you can take the 'Synaptic Linchpin' Enhancement on a Trygon? Do we know how these are selected and bought?
I want a pair of Haruspex. To double team enemy units. Because I like the mental image of them both hooking out the same character, and tearing the victim in half.
I want a pair of Haruspex. To double team enemy units. Because I like the mental image of them both hooking out the same character, and tearing the victim in half.
Get Psychophage and Haruspex. Both hungry but may rip the victim in two fancy ways instead one
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I want a pair of Haruspex. To double team enemy units. Because I like the mental image of them both hooking out the same character, and tearing the victim in half.
I have one, and I don't think I have one unbuilt. I do have two Exocrines, though. That might have been where all those kits went. Can't remermber ever getting a fourth.
For me, it and the Lictor may be the stand out units.
Lictor because it’s about as close to its 2nd Ed glory days as we might’ve realistically hoped for. Solid against all but the nastiest characters, and a pretty handy bit of back up for any other broods involved in the same Pagga.
Haruspex just…..just has a bit of everything. Sure it’s main attacks aren’t too great against Armour, but with D2 even the odd plink or three is going to be felt, and it should fairly reliably murder anything up to MEQ. But it’s the claws being Extra Attacks which make it so sweet to my mind. Because I’m not forced to pick and choose, but instead get Full Strength Flavour every round of combat I’m stuck in.
The ranged attack….my opinion on it has improved. Whilst still nothing I’d want to find myself entirely reliant upon? I think it’s just the right side of nasty for my opponent to have to worry about it. Because whilst admittedly somewhat unlikely, the odds of it slaying even a Gravis or Terminator Captain (yes I just checked!) aren’t entirely astronomic. And we all know the dice gods have a twisted sense of humour! And as characters get lighter, the odds of one being a side salad only increase.
How often are GW display miniature scratch built? Just spotted two potential Easter eggs in the Manchester display. Giganto-Rippper held by dread, then the one I'm interested in. The norn/dominatrix throw back under the green comet. Looks knight sized and i can't identify any current kids the parts could have come from.
The thing under the green comet looks loke it's kitbashed from a Tyrannofex and a Haruspex. It looks much larger because it is nearer to the camera if i interpret the perspective correctly, it's standing on a ridge just below the lower edge of the picture, the camera is looking past it into a 'valley'.
IyandenSun wrote: How often are GW display miniature scratch built? Just spotted two potential Easter eggs in the Manchester display. Giganto-Rippper held by dread, then the one I'm interested in. The norn/dominatrix throw back under the green comet. Looks knight sized and i can't identify any current kids the parts could have come from.
The big ripper looks to be made out of a Maleceptor's head.
NAVARRO wrote: Maybe its the angle but dread looks huge almost like a joy toy.
I think that's the angle again - that display is basically a huge L-shaped piece that goes around the store frontage and then into the store itself perpendicular to the frontage, the dread is as near to the camera as something can be and the majority of the display is far away in that particular shot.
So after index drop, what units from there do you bet will get new models with a codex release? Obvious ones = Stealers/Hormas/Vores/Lictors are excluded, obviously My bet is on Warriors. They cc options, look like a placeholder before the new kit is out. I think that new ones would get Talons like Winged Prime as their only cc option.
Shadow Walker wrote: So after index drop, what units from there do you bet will get new models with a codex release? Obvious ones = Stealers/Hormas/Vores/Lictors are excluded, obviously My bet is on Warriors. They cc options, look like a placeholder before the new kit is out. I think that new ones would get Talons like Winged Prime as their only cc option.
There will be new kits. We already know that- personally I just want to see the resin models go, finally.
Warriors seem unlikely- that's a perfectly fine kit that can build all the options on both cards. The close combat consolidation is something that has been going on for a while now, consistent with what happened to other factions in 9th, and what we're seeing on other datacards in 10th. Votann are brand new, and their CC options got consolidated.
My hope is that this version of Tyranids is essentially the rough draft that was sent to print to get it ready for launch, while the codex proper was able to receive a few more months of finishing touches. We've seen it before, particularly in 40k.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My hope is that this version of Tyranids is essentially the rough draft that was sent to print to get it ready for launch, while the codex proper was able to receive a few more months of finishing touches. We've seen it before, particularly in 40k.
My expectation is this is what we have now.
These are almost certainly “get you by” basic cards. This is something we’ve seen in 2nd Ed, Ravening Hordes and 8th Ed Indexes. Something to get everyone going until their Codex rolls out, and rules more fleshed out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My hope is that this version of Tyranids is essentially the rough draft that was sent to print to get it ready for launch, while the codex proper was able to receive a few more months of finishing touches. We've seen it before, particularly in 40k.
My expectation is this is what we have now.
These are almost certainly “get you by” basic cards. This is something we’ve seen in 2nd Ed, Ravening Hordes and 8th Ed Indexes. Something to get everyone going until their Codex rolls out, and rules more fleshed out.
Kansas Q&A notes though cards aren't supposed to be radically altered generally with codex.
Kansas Q&A notes though cards aren't supposed to be radically altered generally with codex.
Yeah given that Tyranids won't have had any public play testing before their codex went to print and what they said in Q&As, my expectation is that any datasheet changes will be limited to specific things:
1) New units
2) Interactions with other datasheets; for example if they release a separate Shrike or Tyranid Prime kit that may affect rules for related bodyguards.
3) Interactions with new detachments; e.g. bringing back the BURROWER or SPORECASTER keywords for use with new list themes.
Don't expect unit or weapon profiles to change much, if at all.
Gw are on a very strange "simplify close combat" spree right now. AoS saw a lot of armies lose weapon variety in general even though the kits fully support them and we are seeing the same with 40K as well. It's clearly a drive somewhere in the GW system to push that agenda forward.
Perhaps its marketing arguing that lots of varied close combat weapons aren't exciting people and increases costs too much to buy in
Perhaps its GW pushing toward changing to mono-weapon models and more dynamic sculpts for close combat and this is the first step. Strip down variety per unit.
Perhaps its a move toward creating new options to make more units and models within armies by instead of having 1 model that does 5 roles with weapon changes; having 5 models that each do 1 - so that given time GW can expand the armeis without bloating the game side.
Or someone in GW rules really hates close combat and wants to see more ranged focus.
Or they got through testing rnaged and then ran out of time for close combat
It could be many things, heck it could even be focus group or survey results being interpreted that people don't like lots of close combat weapon variety but do still like gun variety.
Shadow Walker wrote: So after index drop, what units from there do you bet will get new models with a codex release? Obvious ones = Stealers/Hormas/Vores/Lictors are excluded, obviously My bet is on Warriors. They cc options, look like a placeholder before the new kit is out. I think that new ones would get Talons like Winged Prime as their only cc option.
No warriors but probably shrikes to go with the winged prime. Maybe a separate prime kit with a walking/flying version. Norn Emissary kit and probably a few individual critters like a rework of the Red Terror,
I think shrieks or winged warriors for the prime are a must considering otherwise its basically pointless to have a model with wings leading a unit without them as it will rarely get a chance to actually use them for good effect.
Red Terror I'm not expecting a rework on, nice if we get it but not shocked if we don't. Heck I'd almost expect Red Terror to be trapped until such time as the Trygon kit gets updated.
Overread wrote: I think shrieks or winged warriors for the prime are a must considering otherwise its basically pointless to have a model with wings leading a unit without them as it will rarely get a chance to actually use them for good effect.
Red Terror I'm not expecting a rework on, nice if we get it but not shocked if we don't. Heck I'd almost expect Red Terror to be trapped until such time as the Trygon kit gets updated.
I think a red Terror type creature is a possibility to accompany Raveners- a Ravtyrant like the Neurotyrant. Nids don't have many individual plastic character models so it might fit a gap in the range. They do love their clam pack characters and currently thats just the brood lord and the parasite, plus the neurotyrant and the flying prime to come.
Overread wrote: Red Terror I'm not expecting a rework on, nice if we get it but not shocked if we don't. Heck I'd almost expect Red Terror to be trapped until such time as the Trygon kit gets updated.
*dons tinfoil hat*
Obviously the Trygon Prime doesn't exist anymore because a new, embiggened Red Terror is going to fulfill the tunneling monstrous HQ role when the codex comes out.
*takes off tinfoil hat*
Woah! Weird things happen when you wear one of those! Crazy stuff!
Overread wrote: It could be many things, heck it could even be focus group or survey results being interpreted that people don't like lots of close combat weapon variety but do still like gun variety.
Or GW just moves towards allowing people more freedom of modelling. Having spears and swords in box is all well and good, but what happens when spear rules are better but customers really like sword and shield look? They either need to model their unit in a way they don't like, or accept feelbad handicapping to get good look on expensive minis - I kinda get why GW might want to reduce it as much as possible...
Hell, I really like power mauls but most of the SM units didn't even have this as an option in last three editions or if they did, mauls were suboptimal due to low AP - now that it's all just 'power weapon', giving one to primaris sergeant is finally possible...
That is even more clear in aos where it's basically just matter of damage. About best you can do at role is high damage(either attack or dam charactteristic) or high rend to have weapon vs low save/high save.
Spear/sword is really hard to even up as spears in essence double attacks. Swords should have thus twice as attacks which feels silly.
Gw's style of better to hit or wound results in spears being best.
Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Tastyfish wrote: Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Tastyfish wrote: Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Pretty sure this is just a screamer-killer.
Nah, it's the Swarmlord. He has the bone blades, and that specific face burn that he got during the devastation of Baal.
If it's a Screamer-Killer then trees it's taller than are pretty modest trees.
I think the "Norn Assimilator" is a good prediction for the fellow in that excerpt. It's the harbinger of the end ie. it's there to permanently assimilate them.
Altruizine wrote: If it's a Screamer-Killer then trees it's taller than are pretty modest trees.
I think the "Norn Assimilator" is a good prediction for the fellow in that excerpt. It's the harbinger of the end ie. it's there to permanently assimilate them.
Also a possibility. To add context to that stuff, someone on reddit has taken the full excerpt:
By the end, when there was no hope of escape, people turned on each other, tearing at the ones they loved, blind to everything but the terror.
Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters.
It meant nothing. In their final moments they were just animals. Shivering and screaming. Flailing at the dark.
Fighting for life.
Tharro howled with them, begging for mercy as though the monsters attacking them might listen. As though they might care.
'Please!'
Then he tumbled to the floor and gasped in surprise. He looked around and saw that he was at home and it was still night. His wife, Valacia, was in bed, sleeping quietly. There were no wings. No bestial horrors. No screams. None of it was real.
He was so relieved that he laughed. A dream. That was all.
But it had been so vivid.
He could still feel the desperate hunger clamouring for his heart and his bones. He stood there for a while, trying to clear his thoughts, trying to think of other things, but he could not rid himself of sickening images. He dressed and headed outside, drinking in the cool night air and looking up at the stars.
Just a dream.
He could not remember ever being so affected by a nightmare, even as a child. Glimpses echoed round his thoughts. Fractured scenes centred on a huge figure. A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death.
It was the Harbinger.
'Emperor protect me,' he whispered as he hurried away from his hab-unit, following a narrow path through the rocks, hoping the night air would calm him. He entered a small wood and the trees leant over him as he walked, forming a tunnel. When he emerged on the far side, he was surprised to see lights glittering further down the mountainside. Who would be awake, now? He headed towards them and saw that despite the late hour, hundreds, perhaps even thousands of people had gathered in the darkness. He recognised a few of them, but most were strangers. The sight of so many people huddled together in the middle of the night was bizarre and somehow dreadful. They were all looking out from the mountain, staring into the night.
No one was speaking.
They looked terrified, all of them, their faces pale and rigid, like skulls draped in the darkness. The knot in his stomach tightened. It made no sense, but somehow he knew what had scared them. He knew why they had gathered here, at the edge of the forest.
'The dream,' he said quietly, as he reached a young woman.
She gave a short nod, trembling as she looked across the forest.
'The Harbinger.' The name felt strange in his mouth, heavy and cold. He immediately regretted using it.
She refused to meet his eye.
Tharro remembered the sounds of his nightmare: the scraping of claws, the creak of chitin. Blood rushed in his veins. He imagined talons paring him, rooting through his abdomen. 'How could we share the same dream?' he asked.
'It is a portent,' the woman whispered.
'Of what?'
'The end.'
So there's some sort of premonition caused by the Shadow in the Warp that shows them malign aliens intent on their destruction in their dreams.
Tastyfish wrote: Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Pretty sure this is just a screamer-killer.
Nah, it's the Swarmlord. He has the bone blades, and that specific face burn that he got during the devastation of Baal.
Swarmie only has one blade jutting from his skull. He's also handsome, not repulsive, therefore you are categorically incorrect.
That pluralization could also favour it being the Assimilator. We've seen that the Emissary might have a huge wedge-like crest/blade, and the most straightforward alternate head to that would be one with multiple blades.
Tastyfish wrote: Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Pretty sure this is just a screamer-killer.
Nah, it's the Swarmlord. He has the bone blades, and that specific face burn that he got during the devastation of Baal.
Swarmlords boneblades comes from it's SKULL? Thought it carries in arms.
Tastyfish wrote: Whilst very nicely painted, that is a spectacularly unhelpful set of comparisons.
In the bit of fiction they have up in the Leviathon queue made me wonder if it will be an alt build of the Norn Emissary, or just another name for one.
"A four-armed colossus. Godlike in size, taller than the trees, skittering and scything, a face too dreadful to look upon, bone blades jutting from a ridged skull. It was repulsive. The flesh on one side of its face had been burned, leaving charred sinew. But it was more than its appearance that filled him with dread, it was something deeper: an understanding of what it signified. It was not merely bringing death. It was bringing the final death. It was the Harbinger."
Pretty sure this is just a screamer-killer.
Nah, it's the Swarmlord. He has the bone blades, and that specific face burn that he got during the devastation of Baal.
Swarmie only has one blade jutting from his skull. He's also handsome, not repulsive, therefore you are categorically incorrect.
That pluralization could also favour it being the Assimilator. We've seen that the Emissary might have a huge wedge-like crest/blade, and the most straightforward alternate head to that would be one with multiple blades.
We also have persistent rumours of some sort of 'Apex Swarmlord' and/or a new Hive Tyrant kit, so a alternate build for that that gives the Swarmlord a bit more visual distinction is not out of the question, or even a centerpiece-style eSwarmlord that looks more grizzled and menacing. One way or the other, we will know shortly.
Doesn't replace the Swarmlord, is just a bigger better newer version released alongside. The first of the Tyranid Primardial line!
I liked what Warmachine did with their 'epic' versions of certain casters, no mucking around with convoluted titles and such, just called them eMalevolus or whatever. Of course, that's impossible for GW, as it would lead to confusion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the cloak and stinger? One suspects those are deliberate, visually obvious identifiers so we can tell DL from a Common or Garden Variety Lictor.
Well not lictor but hopefully lictor too and sooeer than seraphon got reqular slann after sc slann(took 2 years for generic slann after kroak was releasea)
I actually aren't a fan, it's just a bit "too much" for me, lacking any more nuance to my statement. The bran tail tentacle, the flesh skirt, I don't get it. What evolutionary advantage does the web skirt bring?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the cloak and stinger? One suspects those are deliberate, visually obvious identifiers so we can tell DL from a Common or Garden Variety Lictor.
On a practical note, it looks like the upper part of the torso with the two large claws and the stinger is a sub-assembly that can be magnetized and removed, which is probably a good idea if you hope to transport that model in a somewhat-practical fashion
Dudeface wrote: I actually aren't a fan, it's just a bit "too much" for me, lacking any more nuance to my statement. The bran tail tentacle, the flesh skirt, I don't get it. What evolutionary advantage does the web skirt bring?
Incoming BS thoughts.
Helps obscure its legs from the rear, making a sneaky attack trickier. Also looks prehensile, so possibly for enveloping prey and muffling them. And given chameleonic, having a flexible material would again likely help with blending in?
I don't like it, looks like a 90s edgy comic book antihero, I could absolutely see that thing showing up on the cover of an issue of Spawn drawn by Rob Liefeld
but I'm not (primarily) a Nid player and I never liked their unique organisms anyway, so if people like it then its doing its job
Dudeface wrote: I actually aren't a fan, it's just a bit "too much" for me, lacking any more nuance to my statement. The bran tail tentacle, the flesh skirt, I don't get it. What evolutionary advantage does the web skirt bring?
Incoming BS thoughts.
Helps obscure its legs from the rear, making a sneaky attack trickier. Also looks prehensile, so possibly for enveloping prey and muffling them. And given chameleonic, having a flexible material would again likely help with blending in?
Oof, hope you had a nice big stretch before reaching that hard.
I like the head tail. I’m envisioning this being a proper whirl of carnage, using its cloak and head tail thing to fend off anyone trying to mob it whilst it focuses on More Urgent Prey.
Definitely gonna be Marmite, but I for one am a fan.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I like the head tail. I’m envisioning this being a proper whirl of carnage, using its cloak and head tail thing to fend off anyone trying to mob it whilst it focuses on More Urgent Prey.
Definitely gonna be Marmite, but I for one am a fan.
It certainly looks more 'Unknowable space mutant abomination' than older editions ''Bug-Lizard' approach to Tyranids, and i quite like it. It steps close to overdoing it, but stays on the right side of the line, for me. Also, i want somebody to do a conversion of it with top hat, three monocles and a walking cane.
xttz wrote: "The value of the prize is GBP £37.50"
Recent named characters have been £27.50, while 'elite' infantry like Eightbound were released at £37.50
Bets on this being a box with 2-3 lictors, and one of them can be built as Deathleaper?
Would bet more on it just being a single model dual kit with a Lictor
Also this:
And who knows, we might have something even cooler to reveal at the next milestone…
doesn't sound as if they meant the next Instagram milestone as that would take quite a while and why tease it now? So it's probably for another website, Twitch is pretty close to 200k with 194K followers or maybe Twitter for 125k with 122k?
xttz wrote: "The value of the prize is GBP £37.50"
Recent named characters have been £27.50, while 'elite' infantry like Eightbound were released at £37.50
Bets on this being a box with 2-3 lictors, and one of them can be built as Deathleaper?
Would bet more on it just being a single model dual kit with a Lictor
Also this:
And who knows, we might have something even cooler to reveal at the next milestone…
doesn't sound as if they meant the next Instagram milestone as that would take quite a while and why tease it now? So it's probably for another website, Twitch is pretty close to 200k with 194K followers or maybe Twitter for 125k with 122k?
Single kit with alternate builds sounds logical, that tactical rock base is probably expensive in sprue space
Twitch and twitter both sound like good guesses, they don't have much beyond that and Facebook, right? Do they have an official reddit?
I feel that this will be a just a single build character model, like the Parasite of Mortex. Doesn't look like a dual-build Lictor model to me.
I guess Lictors will get a single model kit as well, or they'll be forever stuck in Finecast limbo with the Deathleaper and Van Ryan's Leapers taking the spotlight.
Single kit with alternate builds sounds logical, that tactical rock base is probably expensive in sprue space
Twitch and twitter both sound like good guesses, they don't have much beyond that and Facebook, right? Do they have an official reddit?
include a different head with different tentacles, replace the stinger with a flat carapace plate, leave off the the cloak with the carapace plate it is connected too and maybe a different pair of legs so it can stand without the tactical pipes and you would have a fine Lictor. Also wouldn't need that many additional parts on the sprue.
Facebook and Youtube are the only other official channels and both aren't really close to any milestone so its probably either twitter or twitch
stahly wrote: I feel that this will be a just a single build character model, like the Parasite of Mortex. Doesn't look like a dual-build Lictor model to me.
I guess Lictors will get a single model kit as well, or they'll be forever stuck in Finecast limbo with the Deathleaper and Van Ryan's Leapers taking the spotlight.
I can see this being a Lictor/Deathleaper dual kit myself, building one or the other.
stahly wrote: I feel that this will be a just a single build character model, like the Parasite of Mortex. Doesn't look like a dual-build Lictor model to me.
I guess Lictors will get a single model kit as well, or they'll be forever stuck in Finecast limbo with the Deathleaper and Van Ryan's Leapers taking the spotlight.
Counterpoint:
This majestic specimen is the advanced Lictor bioform you know and love, upgraded for a new edition. As an EPIC HERO* dedicated to the art of stabbing anything wandering into the shadows, Deathleaper is the Hive Fleet’s paramount terror weapon and a legend of lurking, inescapable dread the galaxy over.
* Which means you can only take one – albeit with plenty of Lictor back-up.
From the article/footnote. I don't think they'd mentioned Lictors specifically if they'd be relegated to be backbenchers.
stahly wrote: I feel that this will be a just a single build character model, like the Parasite of Mortex. Doesn't look like a dual-build Lictor model to me.
I guess Lictors will get a single model kit as well, or they'll be forever stuck in Finecast limbo with the Deathleaper and Van Ryan's Leapers taking the spotlight.
Counterpoint:
This majestic specimen is the advanced Lictor bioform you know and love, upgraded for a new edition. As an EPIC HERO* dedicated to the art of stabbing anything wandering into the shadows, Deathleaper is the Hive Fleet’s paramount terror weapon and a legend of lurking, inescapable dread the galaxy over.
* Which means you can only take one – albeit with plenty of Lictor back-up.
From the article/footnote. I don't think they'd mentioned Lictors specifically if they'd be relegated to be backbenchers.
Not sure I agree, they've got a lictor they can sell, no reason not to put it forwards.
Edit: I do think new lictor(s) are coming, but I don't think it stops them trying to peddle the finecrap ones*
Interesting model. It looked very overdone at first, but it's got something about it that makes me think I'll come around after letting the new look settle for a while.
xttz wrote: "The value of the prize is GBP £37.50"
Recent named characters have been £27.50, while 'elite' infantry like Eightbound were released at £37.50
Bets on this being a box with 2-3 lictors, and one of them can be built as Deathleaper?
Illuminor Szeras is £35, and a similar size. So no, I think "monstrous special characters" are just £35-ish, and GW are price bumping new ones up to £37.50 as they oft do.
That is a freaking sweet model! I utterly love the new Deathleaper!!!
Not going to lie, it looks more like it should be in Genestealer Cults and I wonder if it might port over - the head design with the shoulder ruff and the cloak like flesh all screams "cult" model over core Tyranid.
But that's a nit pick on theming styles and honestly its freaking awesome!!
Complete drek. It suffers from the usual GW model design sins, being so utterly festooned with guff that it all blends together into a visually confusing mess, and the flesh-cloak might well be one of the *stupidest* ideas I've ever seen on a miniature.
Maybe there's something halfway decent hiding under all of that excess, but no one should be paying the exorbitant price only to have to spend a long time fixing it in order to find out.
Straight to the bin.
I bet you the flesh cloak comes from monster ideas like mothman and antmen films. Where those insects hiding in open corn fields or dark underground rail networks both had kind of cloaks of flesh as part of how they tried to help blend into their surroundings and look almost human enough in the dark.
Also its riddled with tentacles if you look at the back of it so its got fleshy ability to move around; its not just a flap of hanging flapping skin
I don’t think this will be a dual kit but plastic lictors are definitely coming. That exclusive catachan model had a lictor head on the base so GW would never miss the chance to recycle a model
Siegfriedfr wrote: Leapers are essentially upgraded lictors in design, so i really wonder what they have in store between them and Deathleaper in term of design.
I'd assume the same base kit without fewer noodly appendages, a different head and without the skirt.
I think seeing the Deathleaper as-is I think that we've a few options
1) The Deathleaper kit builds a regular Lictor variation as well. Perhaps a different shoulder/head assembly and no flesh cape and such.
2) The Lictor is a second separate character style model, not as flamboyant as the Deathleaper, but the same general idea of a single hunter.
3) The Von Ryan's have replaced the base Lictor gene and we will simply have Deathleapers and Von Ryans. That the article mentions the Deathleaper leading the Von Ryans supports this theory.
4) The Von Ryan non-pushfit version of the models has the option to build a Lictor version as a Sergeant.
3) The Von Ryan's have replaced the base Lictor gene and we will simply have Deathleapers and Von Ryans. That the article mentions the Deathleaper leading the Von Ryans supports this theory.
The article also says "Which means you can only take one – albeit with plenty of Lictor back-up." so Lictors aren't gone
stahly wrote: I feel that this will be a just a single build character model, like the Parasite of Mortex. Doesn't look like a dual-build Lictor model to me.
I guess Lictors will get a single model kit as well, or they'll be forever stuck in Finecast limbo with the Deathleaper and Van Ryan's Leapers taking the spotlight.
Counterpoint:
This majestic specimen is the advanced Lictor bioform you know and love, upgraded for a new edition. As an EPIC HERO* dedicated to the art of stabbing anything wandering into the shadows, Deathleaper is the Hive Fleet’s paramount terror weapon and a legend of lurking, inescapable dread the galaxy over.
* Which means you can only take one – albeit with plenty of Lictor back-up.
From the article/footnote. I don't think they'd mentioned Lictors specifically if they'd be relegated to be backbenchers.
Doesn't mean it has to be dual kit though. Lictor can be it's own clampack and both he is right and lictor comes.
Don't like the organic coat as it makes no sense. Ok, GW will probably try to do some technobabble, but GW historically has been worst when it comes to organic babble. The coat is waist down so it cannot wrap its whole body if it were some sort of camouflage, sound muffling, or insulating cloak. By linking the tendrils together, the tendrils cannot independently strike out like tentacles. I'm guessing the stringer tentacle from the back of the neck is the old "implant attack".
Wish GW had tried to get a real biologist's advice on how to create a "hero Lictor", with reference to some obscure real life biological weapon or other hunting/stalking adaptation.
Am I crazy or wasn’t there a Tyranid originally described by eyewitnesses as being a cloaked figure? It doesn’t pop up under the deathleaper lore on any wiki I saw so maybe it was for something else
Mr_Rose wrote: Like the cloak thing. Giving Vampire Squid vibes, which matches the tentacles at least.
Yes I got that feel too from the visual appearance. The problem is that what works for a vampire squid in an aquatic environment does not work for this model, not least because of the issue of size. A waist down little cloak is not comparable to the vampire squid's threat response of turning its webbing inside out over its body to present a spiky appearance to ward off predators who might think it more trouble than it would be worth.
Wish GW had tried to get a real biologist's advice on how to create a "hero Lictor", with reference to some obscure real life biological weapon or other hunting/stalking adaptation.
You mean like some kind of sea creature, famous for tentacles and often having a "skirt" that runs near the core of its body that runs between the lower part of the tentacles. A species that also famous for being able to change its skin colour for camouflage in a way that chameleons can only dream of.
They pretty much conformed Lictors are also coming, so curious to see how they'll do it.
My guess will be either a box of two, with options for alternate unit/variant (unlikely), or a single model with some option to build different Lictors (like the Beast of Nurgle for example).
Except the cloak also links the tips of those tendrils so they are not comparable to an octopus's tentacles, and again that is an aquatic adaptation, not a land creature's. Its mouth parts are more like an octopus. The tips are unlinked allowing for independent movement. However the same problem that I identified with the Neurotyrant is also present with this Deathleaper. There are teeth in the jaw, buit no opposing teeth/jaw with which to form an actual bite.
GaroRobe wrote: Am I crazy or wasn’t there a Tyranid originally described by eyewitnesses as being a cloaked figure? It doesn’t pop up under the deathleaper lore on any wiki I saw so maybe it was for something else
There's definitely an interesting aspect there. If it can theoretically 'wrap' its legs in that flap? It could pass for a techpriest at a distance...
Also an interesting thought:
It could be a camouflaging mechanism more suited to a corner-camping predator. It latches itself to a ceiling, lashes its tail in and spreads out the membrane to block itself off, tucking itself into a corner of the ceiling and hiding.
Mr_Rose wrote: Like the cloak thing. Giving Vampire Squid vibes, which matches the tentacles at least.
Except vampire squid membrane fully encloses and at the centre of it is the mouth. If they did a head which basically looked like a vamp squid, that would be a cool design flourish. The tiny portion of half skirt relegated to the back just serves no practical purpose.
@Overread - Thank you. If it was actually a cloak it would make more design sense, but the skirtness of it is why it looks so silly and any analogies to cephalopods or flying squirrels are bunk.
xttz wrote: "The value of the prize is GBP £37.50"
Recent named characters have been £27.50, while 'elite' infantry like Eightbound were released at £37.50
Bets on this being a box with 2-3 lictors, and one of them can be built as Deathleaper?
Zero, not only 40K unlike AoS doesn't do alt builds in 95% of the cases, even where it would make total sense, but you're being silly if you think box with 3 models this size will cost just 37.50. Look at $$$ of much smaller Bladeguard/Eliminators and come say that again...
GaroRobe wrote: Friendly reminder to use the code from the starter to vote in favor of the tyranids
Let’s see those models first please ?
Do the what now?
The Leviathan boxes contain a one-use code you can use to register your first game at the 'Battle of Oghram' sub-site as either a Space Marine or Tyranid win, from the 24th to July 9th. The winning faction will get an early-bird preview of new stuff from their upcoming codex.
GaroRobe wrote: Friendly reminder to use the code from the starter to vote in favor of the tyranids
Let’s see those models first please ?
Do the what now?
The Leviathan boxes contain a one-use code you can use to register your first game at the 'Battle of Oghram' sub-site as either a Space Marine or Tyranid win, from the 24th to July 9th. The winning faction will get an early-bird preview of new stuff from their upcoming codex.
If it squats down and retract its claws it can can wrap this membrane around its body and mimic a tactical rock. Characters like them, so they'll step on it... just as planned.
I have been waiting in deep hibernation for the awakening of the hive, nothing has managed to do that, for say, like 2 decades? No parasite, no Screamer, no vLeapers, no 10thbox... nothing.
Then today at work I see this and Im back baby! I could not give a rats ass about the Leviathan box but this! THIS!
When I said GW could be more bold with designs and they could do something scary and fresh and still keep the Tyranid canon... THIS is what I meant.
This is new in every way and I vote for more of it with my wallet.
Pure perfection in every little bit of sculpting, so many fresh ideas here and its freaking perfectly executed.
NAVARRO wrote: I have been waiting in deep hibernation for the awakening of the hive, nothing has managed to do that, for say, like 2 decades? No parasite, no Screamer, no vLeapers, no 10thbox... nothing.
Then today at work I see this and Im back baby! I could not give a rats ass about the Leviathan box but this! THIS!
When I said GW could be more bold with designs and they could do something scary and fresh and still keep the Tyranid canon... THIS is what I meant.
This is new in every way and I vote for more of it with my wallet.
Pure perfection in every little bit of sculpting, so many fresh ideas here and its freaking perfectly executed.
The Hive is back!
Totally with you there... i don't understand people who want to stick to "but they must have 6 limbs and look like 4th Edition Tyranids FOREVER".
Things change, and in the case of Tyranids, if they go 8, 10 or 12 limbs, it's in their nature to evolve and change.
I remember when people complained about too thick mandibles etc. in Von Ryan's Leapers mouths but at least they look like they could survive being used. Ones from Deathleaper would snap when you look at them funny.
I think there is definitely too much base for it to be a dual kit (I'd have suggested the cape was a parachute for limited gliding or falling).
I think the lictor is going to be harking back to it's old (larger) 2nd ed model. I think lictors are the vanguard mod of warriors, whilst leapers are the vanguard mod of gaunts - so I suppose there is scope for something larger (the vanguard carnifex? One of those tunneling ones, perhaps?)
I think the 'skirt' works for giving it enhanced mobility in water, and could help it hang upside down from rocky outcrops, what with the multiple tendrils and the webbing for a larger surface area to constrict with to hold it in place. Plus, I think it looks utterly mad and alien and I love it.
Shadow Walker wrote: I remember when people complained about too thick mandibles etc. in Von Ryan's Leapers mouths but at least they look like they could survive being used. Ones from Deathleaper would snap when you look at them funny.
Those tentacles from Deathleaper are just for eating brains, tickling and propably some hentai action. It has enough other weapons for breaking amour and skulls. Just imagine those outer tentacles are going right in your ears or vertebrae (or groins) and it's not funny at all.
Shadow Walker wrote: I remember when people complained about too thick mandibles etc. in Von Ryan's Leapers mouths but at least they look like they could survive being used. Ones from Deathleaper would snap when you look at them funny.
Those tentacles from Deathleaper are just for eating brains, tickling and propably some hentai action. It has enough other weapons for breaking amour and skulls. Just imagine those outer tentacles are going right in your ears or vertebrae (or groins) and it's not funny at all.
I meant their toughness as model' parts that need to survive every day gaming life like transportation etc.
Forgive me as I’ve not been keeping up with the thread at all, but do we have an up to date list of what’s rumoured to be coming with the codex release?
General Kroll wrote: Forgive me as I’ve not been keeping up with the thread at all, but do we have an up to date list of what’s rumoured to be coming with the codex release?
Not really. The only new thing we have a pretty good guess on is the Norn Emissary, as it has been described in stories and the name has been dropped several times. Other than that, there's possibly a Norn Assimilator as an alternate build for it, and rumours about a possible new Hive Tyrant kit with Swarmlord options, new Genestealers, and no-brainers like kits for the stuff in the Leviathan box. Everything else is either wishlisting or baseless conjecture so far.
Some of the Leviathan might get new kits, some might not. Eg the termagaunts we know will because their stat sheet shows that they've retained the multiple gun options and their pushfit options only have the 1 gun.
General Kroll wrote: Forgive me as I’ve not been keeping up with the thread at all, but do we have an up to date list of what’s rumoured to be coming with the codex release?
Not really. The only new thing we have a pretty good guess on is the Norn Emissary, as it has been described in stories and the name has been dropped several times. Other than that, there's possibly a Norn Assimilator as an alternate build for it, and rumours about a possible new Hive Tyrant kit with Swarmlord options, new Genestealers, and no-brainers like kits for the stuff in the Leviathan box. Everything else is either wishlisting or baseless conjecture so far.
Overread wrote:Some of the Leviathan might get new kits, some might not. Eg the termagaunts we know will because their stat sheet shows that they've retained the multiple gun options and their pushfit options only have the 1 gun.
Love that deathleaper model- its just amped up the alien/squid/octo vibe to 11. The skirt thing is really cool- I can imagine it expanding around to hide the leaper or envelop its prey or even help it glide a little as it leaps down from above. Can't wait to see the regular lictors as well.
Definitely need to see the Nid full reveal - can't imagine the Marine one will touch it for coolness.
I like all of it, not sure about it all at once though.
Probably would've preferred if the striking tail was preserved in the new Lictor kit rather than trying to keep it on the model at the same time as having flesh kilt by putting in the upper back.
Chaos leaves me aesthetically weary of random tentacles bursting from places where there ought not be tentacles though, so maybe it's just hitting that box for me
I like the occasional inexplicable thing like Tyranids in kilts. Not everything should make sense. But it is a little off putting, and I certainly don't like it enough to pay that much.
Tastyfish wrote: I think there is definitely too much base for it to be a dual kit (I'd have suggested the cape was a parachute for limited gliding or falling).
The only thing a half-chute mounted at the hip is going to achieve is that it lands face first at about the same velocity. Which gives a whole new meaning to the name Deathleaper.
Maybe it's best to just accept it as a stylistic choice and not try to explain it at all. That generally works for much of the rest of 40k.
The fleshrobe could well just be an vestigial evolutionary leftover from a previous form. Or it could be painted like active camo. Loads of options. Main thing is it looks cool, distinctive and it’s indicative the designers are playing in fun new design spaces.
I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
I particularly like how the beastie looks difficult to encircle or sneak up on. Previous Lictors and Deathleapers were all Frontal Deff, the hallmark of an Assassin bug intended to be picking its fights. And that’s cool in itself.
But the other stuff here? They strike me as an evolved response to help prevent it being mobbed and pulled apart. There’s no angle of it now not defended in some fashion, even if it’s just wild tentacle flailing, making it that little bit more efficient, and more likely to survive each assassination.
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
Being placed like it is it would not be of use for most of mentioned above.
Interesting to see how divided opinions are about the new Deathleaper.
The model is not for me for a variety of reasons, most notably the weird skirt. There is also its hoofs looking like they have no traction on the underground, so to me the whole thing seems to somewhat levitate in the air a bit... just odd.
Having said that, there are some parts of the sculpt I really like, and I can see why other people like the whole thing. Glad some folks love it, and equally glad I held on to my old metal version!
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
Being placed like it is it would not be of use for most of mentioned above.
Agree.
It just seems like they were looking for a reason to give the Deathleaper an edgy cloak thing. The whole model feels far too anthropomorphized.
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
Being placed like it is it would not be of use for most of mentioned above.
There are a lot of people throwing out 'practical' justifications for the skirt who have apparently never watched a nature documentary.
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
Enlarges the heat signature, if it's capable of muffling the heat signature then it's made from the same stuff as the rest of the nid, it wouldn't change much?
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
As long as you're stood behind/under it
- Muffles sound presence
Introduces a lovely swooshing and chaffing set of sounds as it moves
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
Possible but the entirety of lictors are covered in chameleonic scales, so not sure what it adds
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
As long as it wants you to eat/be eaten by its ass
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
For it's ass
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
Bigger but more elusive is an oxymoron
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
It's just made me think they've been watching/reading too much cthulu/DC stuff.
There are a lot of people throwing out 'practical' justifications for the skirt who have apparently never watched a nature documentary.
But you have so you know it's not right.
GW designers have, from time to time, used real life examples when creating some of their miniatures. Even if that's not the case doesn't mean that people can't enjoy the miniature, it isn't a design flaw. There's a lot of those in 40k but this ain't one.
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
Being placed like it is it would not be of use for most of mentioned above.
There are a lot of people throwing out 'practical' justifications for the skirt who have apparently never watched a nature documentary.
As an avid fan of nature documentaries I am eager to be enlightened what am I missing about the pseudo squid cape posed in the middle and on the back of the body.
You….you know it’s possible not to like something, and not be a Richard about it? Certainly it’s possible to just accept it’s entirely subjective, and just spouting about why everyone else am the wrong isn’t going to change anyone’s mind? Yeah?
NAVARRO wrote: I can see so many reasons for a stalking predator to have that.
- Thing expands and covers his heat signature specially if he is hanging from above
- Thing expands and works like a spider net hunter, tangles confuses prey
- Muffles sound presence
- Covers and works as partial camouflage or doubles down as moving hypnotic flashy natural camo like squids.
- Helping hand, its basically like an octopus tentacled membrane with hooks
- Poisonous membrane like poisoned dart frogs
- fully extended like a peacock for mimicking bigger size and make it a more elusive target.
I can carry on all day... the point is, this is a new window GW opened and that enriches our imagination.
Being placed like it is it would not be of use for most of mentioned above.
There are a lot of people throwing out 'practical' justifications for the skirt who have apparently never watched a nature documentary.
As an avid fan of nature documentaries I am eager to be enlightened what am I missing about the pseudo squid cape posed in the middle and on the back of the body.
There are a lot of people throwing out 'practical' justifications for the skirt who have apparently never watched a nature documentary.
But you have so you know it's not right.
GW designers have, from time to time, used real life examples when creating some of their miniatures. Even if that's not the case doesn't mean that people can't enjoy the miniature, it isn't a design flaw. There's a lot of those in 40k but this ain't one.
I'm not arguing whether people can enjoy it, just the odd ideas as to what it's for/how it would function. GW haven't offered much of an explanation and so we have people speculating about it helping to glide or to cover up the organism. If you've ever seen any of the animals that glide ('flying' fish, squirrels, lizards) it's obvious how unsuitable the membrane is for that purpose - it's too small and doesn't start far enough up the body. It's also clearly to small to envelop the leaper and it's weirdly located if the intention is to throw it over prey.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You….you know it’s possible not to like something, and not be a Richard about it? Certainly it’s possible to just accept it’s entirely subjective, and just spouting about why everyone else am the wrong isn’t going to change anyone’s mind? Yeah?
The opposite is the same = you can dislike it, and point why, without being corrected about being wrong because (here insert lack of imagination, knowledge of nature etc. etc. absurdities). Also, except one example, nobody is attacking anyone for liking the model but apparently disliking it is disallowed.
I particularly like how the beastie looks difficult to encircle or sneak up on. Previous Lictors and Deathleapers were all Frontal Deff, the hallmark of an Assassin bug intended to be picking its fights. And that’s cool in itself.
.
Nice idea there, almost like the membrane is an enhanced sensorial thing picking all movement vibrations that approach the leaper from the back.
To the other fellow dakkaites Im really not going to debate to exhaustion every point I have put forward and will try to address more generally.
We dont know how much that skirt expands and can unfold upwards too... Im thinking it can be massive like a bat wing is when unfolds.
Peacock comparison is on point If the leaper makes his tail huge theres a good chance someone shooting it will be confused. If shot hits the tail it's little damage in comparison of hitting the body making leaper more elusive.
Guys Everyone has its own preferences I get that, its ok to like and dislike... it's better than totally ignoring it just because GW did no updates to it.
For people looking for a function of that "cloak" part: since it apparently has ground contact while the Deathleaper is walking over flat ground, said membrane could be of use to detect vibrations in the ground, which in turn would without a doubt make stalking prey easier.
The crux of the issue is that when people try to say "it's cool because it does XYZ like a real life creature" when it doesn't make sense is going to get questioned. If the statements stop at "It's cool" then that's a different conversation.
Ultimately I dislike it as the model appears to fall into style and creative modelling over function, which is the exact opposite of what nids are about.
They're meant to be hyper evolving into the most efficient form they can manage, what about that skirt makes it the best death leaper it can be? It can't use it to glide, maybe use it to swim, hard to use as a weapon, questionable use for stealth. Or did they just put it on the model because "omg cool caped crusader look", in which case, that's not very Tyranids.
Dudeface wrote: The crux of the issue is that when people try to say "it's cool because it does XYZ like a real life creature" when it doesn't make sense is going to get questioned. If the statements stop at "It's cool" then that's a different conversation.
Ultimately I dislike it as the model appears to fall into style and creative modelling over function, which is the exact opposite of what nids are about.
They're meant to be hyper evolving into the most efficient form they can manage, what about that skirt makes it the best death leaper it can be? It can't use it to glide, maybe use it to swim, hard to use as a weapon, questionable use for stealth. Or did they just put it on the model because "omg cool caped crusader look", in which case, that's not very Tyranids.
Dudeface wrote: The crux of the issue is that when people try to say "it's cool because it does XYZ like a real life creature" when it doesn't make sense is going to get questioned. If the statements stop at "It's cool" then that's a different conversation.
Ultimately I dislike it as the model appears to fall into style and creative modelling over function, which is the exact opposite of what nids are about.
They're meant to be hyper evolving into the most efficient form they can manage, what about that skirt makes it the best death leaper it can be? It can't use it to glide, maybe use it to swim, hard to use as a weapon, questionable use for stealth. Or did they just put it on the model because "omg cool caped crusader look", in which case, that's not very Tyranids.
Does not make sense and fails on your point of view because you have your own ideas based on your personal knowledge. The world is bigger than that and guess what people should not stop debating on a public forum if they wish to. Besides you can refute all you want cant you?
Darnok wrote: For people looking for a function of that "cloak" part: since it apparently has ground contact while the Deathleaper is walking over flat ground, said membrane could be of use to detect vibrations in the ground, which in turn would without a doubt make stalking prey easier.
Would it not be more efficient to have such detecting ground vibration sensors on the legs/foot area?
Dudeface wrote: The crux of the issue is that when people try to say "it's cool because it does XYZ like a real life creature" when it doesn't make sense is going to get questioned. If the statements stop at "It's cool" then that's a different conversation.
Ultimately I dislike it as the model appears to fall into style and creative modelling over function, which is the exact opposite of what nids are about.
They're meant to be hyper evolving into the most efficient form they can manage, what about that skirt makes it the best death leaper it can be? It can't use it to glide, maybe use it to swim, hard to use as a weapon, questionable use for stealth. Or did they just put it on the model because "omg cool caped crusader look", in which case, that's not very Tyranids.
Does not make sense and fails on your point of view because you have your own ideas based on your personal knowledge. The world is bigger than that and guess what people should not stop debating on a public forum if they wish to. Besides you can refute all you want cant you?
And I never suggested people shouldn't debate anything. My point stands that people look at this highly evolved creature designed for a specific purpose to the nth degree can look at it and go "wtf is that about" suggests the design isn't immediately practical. It's a cool mini by all accounts, but doesn't seem very Tyranids to me in the design.
Plus lets be honest, do you honestly think the designer was wanting to create that skirt for a natural predatory reason or because they thought it looked cool?
We dont know how much that skirt expands and can unfold upwards too... Im thinking it can be massive like a bat wing is when unfolds.
We have the rear view and can see how much, or how little, bunched material there is to expand and the location means the centre of gravity is too low for wings to be useful.
Darnok wrote: For people looking for a function of that "cloak" part: since it apparently has ground contact while the Deathleaper is walking over flat ground, said membrane could be of use to detect vibrations in the ground, which in turn would without a doubt make stalking prey easier.
Can we please stop arguing over whether something makes sense or not? The conversation keeps going in a loop and we don’t have any real information outside idle speculation
It’s tyranids. And 40k. Practicality doesn’t always make sense. Why do tyranids have hooves when other feet would be stealthier or more effective? You can make the same arguments over other design features too
Dudeface wrote: The crux of the issue is that when people try to say "it's cool because it does XYZ like a real life creature" when it doesn't make sense is going to get questioned. If the statements stop at "It's cool" then that's a different conversation.
Ultimately I dislike it as the model appears to fall into style and creative modelling over function, which is the exact opposite of what nids are about.
They're meant to be hyper evolving into the most efficient form they can manage, what about that skirt makes it the best death leaper it can be? It can't use it to glide, maybe use it to swim, hard to use as a weapon, questionable use for stealth. Or did they just put it on the model because "omg cool caped crusader look", in which case, that's not very Tyranids.
Does not make sense and fails on your point of view because you have your own ideas based on your personal knowledge. The world is bigger than that and guess what people should not stop debating on a public forum if they wish to. Besides you can refute all you want cant you?
And I never suggested people shouldn't debate anything. My point stands that people look at this highly evolved creature designed for a specific purpose to the nth degree can look at it and go "wtf is that about" suggests the design isn't immediately practical. It's a cool mini by all accounts, but doesn't seem very Tyranids to me in the design.
Plus lets be honest, do you honestly think the designer was wanting to create that skirt for a natural predatory reason or because they thought it looked cool?
Im a designer by profession myself so my 'honest" opinion is very biased I have expressed several reasons to why this could be a biological feature for Leapers since people were debating that quite a lot. Personally I dont need to justify to myself why I like it, we do have gaunts with pistols with magazines on their hands so if I can take that I can take this membrane.
We dont need to know everything about tyranids take this like a sandbox of ideas you personally can expand on, if you wish.
Going back what was on the designer mindset... anything and everything. You could have someone drawing a bridge with octopus ideas and Lictors, someone looking into mind flayers etc or someone just sculpting cool for cool sake. I dont think we will ever know.
GaroRobe wrote: Can we please stop arguing over whether something makes sense or not? The conversation keeps going in a loop and we don’t have any real information outside idle speculation
It’s tyranids. And 40k. Practicality doesn’t always make sense. Why do tyranids have hooves when other feet would be stealthier or more effective? You can make the same arguments over other design features too
I don't know, it's the same thing we went through with the stealth dreadnought. That's why I keep going back to the rule of cool, it has a duster/skirt for looking cool and edgy. Sadly that doesn't fit the factions ideals.
GaroRobe wrote: Can we please stop arguing over whether something makes sense or not? The conversation keeps going in a loop and we don’t have any real information outside idle speculation
It’s tyranids. And 40k. Practicality doesn’t always make sense. Why do tyranids have hooves when other feet would be stealthier or more effective? You can make the same arguments over other design features too
40k as a whole isn't meant to make sense heh. Why do they drive intercontinental ballistic missiles onto a battlefield to fire at something 100 metres away?
An extra-galactic alien organism should be incomprehensible, not better understood by watching something narrated by David Attenborough.
It has the skirt solely so people say "why the hell does that alien have a skirt?"
GaroRobe wrote: Can we please stop arguing over whether something makes sense or not? The conversation keeps going in a loop and we don’t have any real information outside idle speculation
It’s tyranids. And 40k. Practicality doesn’t always make sense. Why do tyranids have hooves when other feet would be stealthier or more effective? You can make the same arguments over other design features too
40k as a whole isn't meant to make sense heh. Why do they drive intercontinental ballistic missiles onto a battlefield to fire at something 100 metres away?
An extra-galactic alien organism should be incomprehensible, not better understood by watching something narrated by David Attenborough.
It has the skirt solely so people say "why the hell does that alien have a skirt?"
Wonder if you can take this fella then the new Lictors then vLeapers and the new Genestealers and call it quits with a full small vanguard army. Assuming the "new" will happen XD
An extra-galactic alien organism should be incomprehensible, not better understood by watching something narrated by David Attenborough.
Well you could always watch the Youtube channel where AI-Attenborough (surprisingly good, honest) reads 40klore, i think they have one on Tyranids as well
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You’d need a Hero type, as Deathleaper says it can’t be your general.
Maybe a Broodlord? Haven’t properly read that card though.
Could be the Norn Emissary creature- they seem to be infiltrating in the new lore and they aren't a named character. I got the impression from the article that there would be a good sized release of vanguard creatures.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You’d need a Hero type, as Deathleaper says it can’t be your general.
Maybe a Broodlord? Haven’t properly read that card though.
Could be the Norn Emissary creature- they seem to be infiltrating in the new lore and they aren't a named character. I got the impression from the article that there would be a good sized release of vanguard creatures.
Norn Emissary as a Warlord? Unlikely. So far he is rather described as a mono tasked creature that would use other Nids forces as a cover/support for its activities but not as one that would be a dedicated leader of the swarm.
Deathleaper's cloak/skirt could be a second bioform that can detach and go flying off to scout from above. To follow the D&D basis of its design, it's an illithid with a pet cloaker.
:wat:
