col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

That C'tan Shard is a melee beast, but it seems like something you can generally just run away from. The attached Crypteks means that is slogs around at infantry speed.

The Shard has two abilities. Do you remember what the second one was? I wonder if he went with Entropic Strike for additional Melee punch.

It seems like a C'Tan Shard build that would be exceptionally good at monster killing but not a very good TAC build.

Doesn't the shard move at infantry speed anyway? Either way, with the veil tek, its tough to run away, and if they are running away, they're probably running away from something they wanted to be next to, cover, or an objective. The conclave and god shackle are a surprisingly good combination. Being immune to s4 is profound, especially considering the crypteks' toughness doesn't factor in. I ran the conclave with pyre shards and spirit dust, basically making sure he's hitting hard on assaults. He was with a vieltek and stormtek with lightning field, just because. The unit was the mvp, taking out three tactical squads and a droppod, without taking a single wound(fnp saved the only wound he would have taken). I ran the mephrit detachment with zandrek otherwise, and got haywire melee attacks just for kicks, and he jumped out of a ghostark first turn and wrecked a droppod, and i was stunned. Still, i was mech heavy so didnt really get to take advantage of the enchanced rp.

If the formations/detachment from the new codex are on par with what we got in exterminatus, then i'm greatly looking forward to the new dex.

 NakedSeamus wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

That C'tan Shard is a melee beast, but it seems like something you can generally just run away from. The attached Crypteks means that is slogs around at infantry speed.

The Shard has two abilities. Do you remember what the second one was? I wonder if he went with Entropic Strike for additional Melee punch.

It seems like a C'Tan Shard build that would be exceptionally good at monster killing but not a very good TAC build.

Doesn't the shard move at infantry speed anyway? Either way, with the veil tek, its tough to run away, and if they are running away, they're probably running away from something they wanted to be next to, cover, or an objective. The conclave and god shackle are a surprisingly good combination. Being immune to s4 is profound, especially considering the crypteks' toughness doesn't factor in. I ran the conclave with pyre shards and spirit dust, basically making sure he's hitting hard on assaults. He was with a vieltek and stormtek with lightning field, just because. The unit was the mvp, taking out three tactical squads and a droppod, without taking a single wound(fnp saved the only wound he would have taken). I ran the mephrit detachment with zandrek otherwise, and got haywire melee attacks just for kicks, and he jumped out of a ghostark first turn and wrecked a droppod, and i was stunned. Still, i was mech heavy so didnt really get to take advantage of the enchanced rp.

If the formations/detachment from the new codex are on par with what we got in exterminatus, then i'm greatly looking forward to the new dex.

I double checked the Move Through Cover that Monstrous Creature grants and it applies to units so the formation gets monster movement so its not going infantry speed through difficult terrain but monster speed.



That possibly makes a melee version of the C'tan Shard formation worth looking into. Although I imagine it will still be hard chasing down a Riptide, Wraithknight, Dreadknight, or bargeLord that simply does not want to go into combat. That's where the wraiths with whipcoils come in of course but that's a 1-2 plan that can get disrupted by wiley opponents.

I am using necrons at caledonian uprising (180 player gt in uk) in 2 weeks. There are a fair number of cron players which is a good send off.

Using barges wraiths and pylons.

Jpr wrote:
I am using necrons at caledonian uprising (180 player gt in uk) in 2 weeks. There are a fair number of cron players which is a good send off. I have been practising with the pylons for a bit now and wanted to give them also a last hurrah. The missions are a mix of eternal war and mAelstrom. This is my list:

Combined Arms Detachment: Necrons

HQ1: Overlord(90), Phaeron(20), Warscythe(10), Sempiternal Weave(15), Phase Shifter(45) [180] (Warlord)

HQ2: Vargard Obyron [160]

Troop1: 5 Warriors [65]

Troop2: 5 Warriors[ 65]

Fast Attack1: 5 Wraiths(175), whip coil(10) [185]

Fast Attack2: 5 Wraiths [175]

Fast Attack3: 5 Wraiths [175]

Heavy Support1: Annihilation Barge [90]

Heavy Support2: Annihilation Barge [90]

Heavy Support3: 3 Sentry Pylons(405), 3 Focused death rays(75) [480]

Allied Detachment: Eldar

HQ1: Farseer(100), Eldar jetbike(15), Spirit Stones of Anath’lan(15) [130]

Troop1: 3 Eldar jetbikes [51]

1846

Was my list

You should consider pairing sentry star with a scarab farm. The opponent gets distracted with the pylons and lets the farm grow.

col_impact wrote:
You should consider pairing sentry star with a scarab farm. The opponent gets distracted with the pylons and lets the farm grow.

1850 is a really weird points limit to work within I must say. Isn't 1750 the more natural midpoint between 1500 and 2000 games? Seen the target number on online lists before though I guess.

Oh well, I give you: The first draft Maynark Sentry Farm.

HQs: Toholk the Blinded.


Elites: 2x 5 Deathmarks.

Troops: 2x 10 Warriors in a Ghost Ark.

Fast Attack: 8 Charnel Scarabs.

Heavy Support: Three Sentry Pylons with Death Rays,

Three Spyders with Particle Beamers,

Three Spyders with Fabricator Claws.

1850 total.

Toholk grants the Pylons slow and purposeful, a 3++ if he opts to stand up front, and has a Chronometron equivalent.

He grants the Deathmarks reserve manipulation.

He grants 1d3 vehicles IWND, perfect for buffing those Ghost Arks.

As for making the farm Charnel: If you throw enough Charnel Scarabs at anything that doesn't have AV 13 or flight capability, it dies.

1850 has been the standard 40k tournament point size for ages. A lot of tournaments have stepped up to 2000 though.

Sylons with FDR are vastly overpowered in a vaccum and borderline an autowin against a high model count army. While their range is rather short in comparison, its damage output is ridiculous. Hit 4 models, get 8 S10 hits for every unit. Even if you only hit 1 single infantry model and a vehicle, said vehicle suffers 4 S10 hits, thus FDR Sylons have about the highest damage potential in the entire game.

Their main problem are lists with very few units that are spread across the battlefield. If you cannot reliably hit stuff with them, you're out of luck.

The lack of mobility has already been covered and there sadly (?) is only one way to get around that - as you did in your list. Another option is swarming them with Scarabs - which can work, but template weapons will absolutely ruin your day.

Flyer-heavy lists are another problem. You cannot hit flyers with them at all so you absolutely need anti-air - which is tough to do on a reliable level with the harsh nerf to anti-air in 7th and Sylons being quite costly. The list above, for example, has nothing against flyers.

Last but not least, it heavily depends on your opponent. If he doesn't know about Sylons, you're set. He will most likely be unaware of their potential and you will destroy most of his army (unless for reasons above).

A more experienced opponent can quickly react to them and play around 'em.

It's super fun though to play them - you won't be making friends anyway ;D

 Sigvatr wrote:
1850 has been the standard 40k tournament point size for ages. A lot of tournaments have stepped up to 2000 though.

Just seems a pretty arbitrary number, was the only reason I commented.

The lack of mobility has already been covered and there sadly (?) is only one way to get around that - as you did in your list. Another option is swarming them with Scarabs - which can work, but template weapons will absolutely ruin your day.

One handy thing I find to take into account about Scarabs:

They're priced like a 1 wound model. Doubling wounds or instant death? No difference from a regular one wound model getting zapped by high strength, low AP stuff.

Go into Scarabs with the mentality that making use of their extra wounds is a situational bonus, and they'll rarely let you down.

The list above, for example, has nothing against flyers.

Not particularly, no. Only raw weight of gauss and the fact that you have a 24 inch threat bubble if they land to claim objectives. (Rending, and flyers never going over AV 12 unless superheavy.)

Neither of which are dedicated solutions.

Gauss does nothing against flyers as every shot needs 2 6s in a row to glance, thus even a full Warrior squad will not hurt a flyer. Having 15 Gauss shots at max as in the list above isn't enough to cut it. It's the one problem the list has, it has nothing against flyers. That's why people usually take AB, they offer solid power against ground and flying targets.

One problem with Necrons is that they either have to fully commit to anti-air by taking Skyfire units or have to resort to NS or AB. That's about it, and the only points-effective choice (with anti-air in mind!) is the NS.

col_impact wrote:

 NakedSeamus wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

That C'tan Shard is a melee beast, but it seems like something you can generally just run away from. The attached Crypteks means that is slogs around at infantry speed.

The Shard has two abilities. Do you remember what the second one was? I wonder if he went with Entropic Strike for additional Melee punch.

It seems like a C'Tan Shard build that would be exceptionally good at monster killing but not a very good TAC build.

Doesn't the shard move at infantry speed anyway? Either way, with the veil tek, its tough to run away, and if they are running away, they're probably running away from something they wanted to be next to, cover, or an objective. The conclave and god shackle are a surprisingly good combination. Being immune to s4 is profound, especially considering the crypteks' toughness doesn't factor in. I ran the conclave with pyre shards and spirit dust, basically making sure he's hitting hard on assaults. He was with a vieltek and stormtek with lightning field, just because. The unit was the mvp, taking out three tactical squads and a droppod, without taking a single wound(fnp saved the only wound he would have taken). I ran the mephrit detachment with zandrek otherwise, and got haywire melee attacks just for kicks, and he jumped out of a ghostark first turn and wrecked a droppod, and i was stunned. Still, i was mech heavy so didnt really get to take advantage of the enchanced rp.

If the formations/detachment from the new codex are on par with what we got in exterminatus, then i'm greatly looking forward to the new dex.

I double checked the Move Through Cover that Monstrous Creature grants and it applies to units so the formation gets monster movement so its not going infantry speed through difficult terrain but monster speed.

Spoiler:

Move Through Cover

Some warriors are skilled at moving over broken and tangled terrain. A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule rolls an extra D6 when rolling to move through difficult terrain and is not slowed by charging through difficult terrain. In most circumstances, this will mean that, when moving, the unit rolls 3D6 and picks the highest roll. Furthermore, a model with the Move Through Cover special rule automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests.

That possibly makes a melee version of the C'tan Shard formation worth looking into. Although I imagine it will still be hard chasing down a Riptide, Wraithknight, Dreadknight, or bargeLord that simply does not want to go into combat. That's where the wraiths with whipcoils come in of course but that's a 1-2 plan that can get disrupted by wiley opponents.

What you call monster speed is still no greater than a 6 inch infantry speed. There is no monster speed in the brb, and more units than just MC's have mtc, it can even be gained through a warlord trait.

Either way, I highly recommend the spirit dust upgrade if only so the Ctan is completely unaffected by difficult terrain during a charge, hate to go at i1 because I had to jump over a puddle.

I don't have my codex handy, but how is the C'tan's master of the material world doodad work? Would it also apply to the unit? I'm guessing not since it probably wasnt considered at the time. Still it would be nice to never take dangerous terrain checks when deepstriking around the board. (On the Crypteks only obviously).

On my way out the door, but I wanted to say that I tried out the Teleporting Haywire Royal Court idea last night. I ran two identical squads, and fried my opponents 2 dreadnaughts in turn1 so severely he diverted his almost his entire force to stop them. They proceeded to fry a Predator, Razorback, Drop Pod, Techmarine with Servitors, and his command squad.

I don't know if they would have been worth it if he wasn't running mulitple vehicles, but it was soo much fun inflicting 10+ hull points at a time.

Thank you for the suggestion!!

How many StormTeks did you put with each VeilTek?

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You should consider pairing sentry star with a scarab farm. The opponent gets distracted with the pylons and lets the farm grow.

1850 is a really weird points limit to work within I must say. Isn't 1750 the more natural midpoint between 1500 and 2000 games? Seen the target number on online lists before though I guess.

Oh well, I give you: The first draft Maynark Sentry Farm.

HQs: Toholk the Blinded.


Elites: 2x 5 Deathmarks.

Troops: 2x 10 Warriors in a Ghost Ark.

Fast Attack: 8 Charnel Scarabs.

Heavy Support: Three Sentry Pylons with Death Rays,

Three Spyders with Particle Beamers,

Three Spyders with Fabricator Claws.

1850 total.

Toholk grants the Pylons slow and purposeful, a 3++ if he opts to stand up front, and has a Chronometron equivalent.

He grants the Deathmarks reserve manipulation.

He grants 1d3 vehicles IWND, perfect for buffing those Ghost Arks.

As for making the farm Charnel: If you throw enough Charnel Scarabs at anything that doesn't have AV 13 or flight capability, it dies.

Just an FYI, I am pretty sure you can't generate Charnel Scarabs with Canoptek Spyders since the rules say "Nominate a unit of Canoptek Scarabs"

Kangodo wrote:
How many StormTeks did you put with each VeilTek?

4

2 Units of 4 Stormteks + Veil Tek + Overlord (2+/3++,WS,MSS)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

Just an FYI, I am pretty sure you can't generate Charnel Scarabs with Canoptek Spyders since the rules say "Nominate a unit of Canoptek Scarabs"

That's one of things I hope is changed in 7th. It would be nice to have the option, even if we had to pay for the upgrade.

col_impact wrote:
Just an FYI, I am pretty sure you can't generate Charnel Scarabs with Canoptek Spyders since the rules say "Nominate a unit of Canoptek Scarabs"

Sure you can. The unit is still a Canoptek Scarab Unit, just with an upgrade applied.

Now technically it's a "Maynark Canoptek Scarab Swarm" unit in the Dark Harvest list and thus can't generate even if you don't upgrade, but that's silly enough dismiss.


You could make a very solid argument that you can only add mundane Scarabs to a Charnel unit I guess... Though that seems like it would needlessly complicate things.

changemod wrote:



You could make a very solid argument that you can only add mundane Scarabs to a Charnel unit I guess... Though that seems like it would needlessly complicate things.

Not sure how, though. I remember a similar discussion with different Dreadnought types.

 Sigvatr wrote:

changemod wrote:



You could make a very solid argument that you can only add mundane Scarabs to a Charnel unit I guess... Though that seems like it would needlessly complicate things.

Not sure how, though. I remember a similar discussion with different Dreadnought types.

Just says to add a base, so either you add a Charnel base because the entire unit needs to take the upgrade, or you add a normal base because you don't have permission to add a base that has taken upgrades.

The problem is that the upgrade doesn't just add something, it takes Entropic Strike away... And a mixed unit is therefore potentially more powerful. It's for good reason you can't just take the upgrade on part of the unit in the first place.

A bit of a side note to the current discussion, but do we have any firm idea as to the timing of the new codex?

 TranSpyre wrote:
A bit of a side note to the current discussion, but do we have any firm idea as to the timing of the new codex?

Nope, but I guarantee you it won't be next week: The Skaven End Times stuff didn't announce a book, so it's a minimum two week release.

After that? Maybe right away, maybe a touch later.

Current rumors say Harlequins are coming in February, so if Harlequins arrive it should be April, otherwise it should be February.

changemod wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

changemod wrote:



You could make a very solid argument that you can only add mundane Scarabs to a Charnel unit I guess... Though that seems like it would needlessly complicate things.

Not sure how, though. I remember a similar discussion with different Dreadnought types.

Just says to add a base, so either you add a Charnel base because the entire unit needs to take the upgrade, or you add a normal base because you don't have permission to add a base that has taken upgrades.

The problem is that the upgrade doesn't just add something, it takes Entropic Strike away... And a mixed unit is therefore potentially more powerful. It's for good reason you can't just take the upgrade on part of the unit in the first place.

I think you are right. The profile has a new name but the army list says upgrade and does not say "change the unit type to." It would be great if you could add the charnel scarabs to a normal Necron CAD but it requires the Maynarkh CAD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I tested out the Melee version of the C'tan Shard formation with attached VeilTek and ChronoTek with 3++ against an Ork army. I also ran a unit of whip coil wraiths. Overall the one-two combo of whip coil wraiths feeding the Time's Arrow remove from game effect proved very lackluster against horde based strategies and therefore seems not a worthwhile TAC strategy.

I purposefully gave my opponent 1st turn. I stole the initiative but then still gave him first turn (I wanted to test out my list going second).

His initial standard deployment got dismantled by my response and he was visibly upset by the potency of my alpha strike at killing his megaNobs. We then backed up and I helped him deploy and bubble-wrap all of his MegaNob trukks with his warbiker mobs and then the second go wound up being a loss for me. Zhadsnark warbiker mobs + bullyBoyz in Trukks + 15 Lootas + 5 tankbustas in a Trukks is a brutally simple and crazy strong Ork list that can hit you hard if you protect it coming in (which I helped him figure out how to do against me).

I found myself really missing that StormTek on the C'tan Shard formation and the Spyder Farm. Wraiths don't seem to do too much unless they got a Destroyer Lord attached. If you run a shooty version of the C'tan then you can deep strike each turn to new targets to shoot at and get high return value. The melee version seems to really lack for mobility.



I also tested out my go to list right now (mini spyder farm, bargeLord with Edge of Eternity and Solar Thermasite, MSS, SW, PS, RO, C'tan Shard formation with VeilTek and LightningTek, Nemesor Zandrekh and alpha strike VeilTek/StormTek teams) against a Pacific Rim list (Adamantine Lance + 3 Riptides, 2 x 10 Kroot and an Ethereal).

I deployed my 2 teams of 1 VeilTek and 3 StormTek and my C'tan Formation and my Nemesor Zandrekh 5 warrior unit on the board out of Line of Sight. My spyder farm was deployed in ruins.

My opponent stole the initiative with his Warlord Trait.

I got Eternal Warrior for my bargeLord (sweet ba-jeezuz!)

The Imperial Knights lumbered forward and put 2 wounds on my bargeLord with focused fire.

My turn one I surrounded the Adamantine Lance Formation from all angles with the deepstriking VeilTek/StormTek teams, the C'tan Formation, an Annihilation Barge, and the bargeLord. It forced a tough decision come choosing which side to put the shields on.

Long story short. One Knight went down turn one and the rest came down turn 2 and there suddenly wasn't enough of a force for my opponent to handle my army. The bargeLord reanimated 3 times and my cryptek teams kept having lingering survivors forcing my opponent to deal with them, since you cannot ignore a StormTek.

Again, my opponent was forced to deal with the Alpha Strike teams rather than deal with the Spyder farm so it grew turn 3 to critical mass once again.

col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

That C'tan Shard is a melee beast, but it seems like something you can generally just run away from. The attached Crypteks means that is slogs around at infantry speed.

The Shard has two abilities. Do you remember what the second one was? I wonder if he went with Entropic Strike for additional Melee punch.

It seems like a C'Tan Shard build that would be exceptionally good at monster killing but not a very good TAC build.

He used it more as a counter-assault unit in our game. I assaulted (and killed his Ghost Ark) with my bargelord. Next turn, he counter-assaulted my bargelord with his C'tan. Now I wouldn't have let him do that if I knew what Time's Arrow did, but you know what they say....ignorance is bliss.

No, I don't remember what the 2nd power was.

What you could use him for is to teleport the unit via Veil into the opponent's backfield and force him to focus all of his firepower trying to take it down. With T8, 4++ Invuln, FNP, Look-Out-Sir and the ability to re-roll 1 die per phase, I can see the formation being used as a bullet-catcher against certain shooty armies in additional to being an offensive unit or a counter-assault unit.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just had another game. It was a 4-man PVP last-man-standing matchup. 1K each of Blood Angels vs Chaos Space Marines (with Abaddon!) vs Space Wolves vs Necrons (me!).

At the end, it was a showdown between me and the Space Wolf player.

What I had left:

Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Solar Thermasite
Obyron
3 Wraiths (out of 6)

vs

Njal
Rune Priest - Force Axe
Ulric
Arjac
6 TH/SS terminators
1 terminator with Assault Cannon


It was a grind through probably 7-8 turns of combat but when the dust settled, the last man standing?....my Overlord with 1W left. I can't believe I beat out his deathstar!

I swear, the Solar Thermasite relic on an Overlord with 2+/3++ is just broken (and with S8 insta-killing power!!!). That wargear should be at least 50-pts. It is way under-costed.

Is there any reason to not use the new formations for necrons?

I can't see of any disadvantages that they entail. I mean you need 3 troops but most people do that anyway.

Seriously just seems to straight up buff units. A teleporting ctan with a re-roll and toughness 8 seems pretty strong. As does a strength 8 barge lord who re-rolls saving throws of 1, considering you can give him a 2+ seems broken, plus you can give him an item that gives precision shots whenever you hit.

All added with the fact you can now have useful warlord traits seems to give us a buff we just frankly didn't need as we await our new dex.

Punisher wrote:
Is there any reason to not use the new formations for necrons?

I can't see of any disadvantages that they entail. I mean you need 3 troops but most people do that anyway.

Seriously just seems to straight up buff units. A teleporting ctan with a re-roll and toughness 8 seems pretty strong. As does a strength 8 barge lord who re-rolls saving throws of 1, considering you can give him a 2+ seems broken, plus you can give him an item that gives precision shots whenever you hit.

All added with the fact you can now have useful warlord traits seems to give us a buff we just frankly didn't need as we await our new dex.

For the new Mephrit Detachment, the only downside is you replace Objective Secured (which can be very important in Maelstrom of War) with better Reanimation Protocols.
The C'tan formation is a straight up buff (unless your fighting DE).

You can take a normal Necron CAD and take a Mephrit C'tan formation if you are playing Malstrom of War to get Objective Secured while still having a teleporting C'tan.

 Nilok wrote:

Punisher wrote:
Is there any reason to not use the new formations for necrons?

I can't see of any disadvantages that they entail. I mean you need 3 troops but most people do that anyway.

Seriously just seems to straight up buff units. A teleporting ctan with a re-roll and toughness 8 seems pretty strong. As does a strength 8 barge lord who re-rolls saving throws of 1, considering you can give him a 2+ seems broken, plus you can give him an item that gives precision shots whenever you hit.

All added with the fact you can now have useful warlord traits seems to give us a buff we just frankly didn't need as we await our new dex.

For the new Mephrit Detachment, the only downside is you replace Objective Secured (which can be very important in Maelstrom of War) with better Reanimation Protocols.
The C'tan formation is a straight up buff (unless your fighting DE).

You can take a normal Necron CAD and take a Mephrit C'tan formation if you are playing Malstrom of War to get Objective Secured while still having a teleporting C'tan.

You can take an allied Necron CAD and get 1-2 ObjSec troops that way too.

Or use your standard obsec lists and just take the formation(s)

Mephrit used only a factor if you want relics

 IHateNids wrote:
Or use your standard obsec lists and just take the formation(s)

Mephrit used only a factor if you want relics

The relics are very good. There really is no reason not to take Solar Thermasite.

I also like Edge of Eternity allowing you to kill models with weapons that can hurt you and force Look Out Sirs on ICs.

The Warlord Trait table is good too. Eternal Warrior, Hatred, and IWND are solid.

So Mephrit Dynasty Cohort will often be your primary.

Lots of tourneys run 1 CAD, 1 Ally, 1 Formation.

So there you go.

I don't think the Dynasty Warlord trait is remotely as good as just rolling on the personal chart.. 5= FNP 6= IWND. I can't remeber my Overlords being threatend with ID very often and we all know hatred does pretty much nothing for a non assault based army. Giving Adm. Will to an army that is going to be RofL stomped in the psychic phase anyway. Rerolling fear and moral checks? Snore. Number two is the most interesting giving haywire to all the lords attacks. But, right now I've already got shooting crypteks doing that for me, and it's not worth trading for the chance at FNP. It really depends on what the new dex look like, but aside from the relics the whole Exterminatus supplement was worthless IMO.

Why is that the most interesting?
My 4 attacks with S7/8 and Armourbane should be enough to wreck most stuff.

Um, super heavies? A lord cam take a Imp Kmight down to 2 Hp on a charge with the haywire alone, then the armourbane will finish it off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a shame we are rocking that Int. 2.

That's a good point!
We will probably survive their D-attack with our 3++, which we can re-roll with that other relic.

You could also haywire sweep over the Knight then tarpit it with another unit to save the overlord from being assaulted.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Um, super heavies? A lord cam take a Imp Kmight down to 2 Hp on a charge with the haywire alone, then the armourbane will finish it off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a shame we are rocking that Int. 2.

The problem with the haywire special rule is that haywire replaces the armor penetration roll so you don't get to apply armourbane so overall your armourbane warscythe gets nerfed. I would rather have an armourbane warscythe than a haywire one.

Also I don't think haywire will get applied to the sweep attack since the haywire buff specifies close combat and the sweep attack is not specified as such.

However, the d6 hammer of wrath auto-hits do get haywire so that is definitely something pretty potent. With the give and take of the trait, its overall a buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have started to run one mega-buffed mega-relicked Mephrit bargeLord with Nemesor Zandrekh for the 33% chance of Hit and Run on the bargeLord or the 66% chance of Hit and Run on the C'tan Shard Formation.

Rolling a successful Hit and Run on the bargeLord is absolutely phenomenal.
seems
Correction: It looks like the Sweep Attack does get Haywire since the warscythe involved is a "Melee weapon". However, it still is a nerf as opposed to the armourbane that you lose.

Also, since Hammer of Wrath isn't a "Melee weapon" it doesn't get haywire, so that sucks.

Thank you, I know there was a reason why it was a bad idea!
I forgot it replaced the regular Armour Penetration.

The Haywire would apply to the Sweeping Attack, but how often is that better than the Warscythe itself?
HoW would probably not work since Haywire is on the weapon itself, right?

Kangodo wrote:
Thank you, I know there was a reason why it was a bad idea!
I forgot it replaced the regular Armour Penetration.

The Haywire would apply to the Sweeping Attack, but how often is that better than the Warscythe itself?
HoW would probably not work since Haywire is on the weapon itself, right?

Correct. Hammer of Wrath is not a "Melee Weapon" so it does not get the haywire USR from the Warlord trait.

Haywire is marginally an upgrade over armourbane vs av 14. It is definitely better on av 15 or greater.

Bear in mind there are other Overlord weapons.

Sure, you won't take one under normal circumstances but if you're on a special character such as Zandrekh or Imhotek it's a buff.

Not really worth building a tactic around the haywire trait since you have a 1/6 chance of ever getting it, who knows what the new dex holds, and the personal warlord tree is hands down the better option.

Basically if you are forced to take the Haywire Warlord trait you tell your opponent you are putting the warscythe aside and the bargeLord is pummeling the Imperial Knight with his bare hands just to to show him how bad @ss he is.

I am being facetious. You would probably want the ap 1 of the warscythe on the odd chance you score a pen with the Haywire instead of bare-handing your close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:




I also tested out my go to list right now (mini spyder farm, bargeLord with Edge of Eternity and Solar Thermasite, MSS, SW, PS, RO, C'tan Shard formation with VeilTek and LightningTek, Nemesor Zandrekh and alpha strike VeilTek/StormTek teams) against a Pacific Rim list (Adamantine Lance + 3 Riptides, 2 x 10 Kroot and an Ethereal).

I deployed my 2 teams of 1 VeilTek and 3 StormTek and my C'tan Formation and my Nemesor Zandrekh 5 warrior unit on the board out of Line of Sight. My spyder farm was deployed in ruins.

My opponent stole the initiative with his Warlord Trait.

I got Eternal Warrior for my bargeLord (sweet ba-jeezuz!)

The Imperial Knights lumbered forward and put 2 wounds on my bargeLord with focused fire.

My turn one I surrounded the Adamantine Lance Formation from all angles with the deepstriking VeilTek/StormTek teams, the C'tan Formation, an Annihilation Barge, and the bargeLord. It forced a tough decision come choosing which side to put the shields on.

Long story short. One Knight went down turn one and the rest came down turn 2 and there suddenly wasn't enough of a force for my opponent to handle my army. The bargeLord reanimated 3 times and my cryptek teams kept having lingering survivors forcing my opponent to deal with them, since you cannot ignore a StormTek.

Again, my opponent was forced to deal with the Alpha Strike teams rather than deal with the Spyder farm so it grew turn 3 to critical mass once again.

Got a chance to re-test this match-up a few times.

This always goes savagely in my favor.

With 2 teams of 3 stormTeks attached to 1 veilTek and 1 C'tanShard Formation (veilTek/lightningTek with TT and PS) I can reliably surround and explode 2 Imperial Knights on the first turn and a good number of times kill all 3 in the first turn.

If you kill the center one first from an unshielded direction (remember you are deep striking aggressively so you can choose different sides based on selection of Knight to shoot at usually) the rest of the unit then loses its re-rollable save.

A bit of wildness factor comes in with the exploding Knight. Sometimes it hits you. One time I lost the Shard to an exploding Knight. Other times the explosion scatters into the other Knights causing a chain reaction of damage. Good fun!


So basically I don't think you need to go beyond teams of 1 veilTek attached to 3 StormTeks. Committing to more stormTeks will open up other weaknesses (such as bike armies and MC armies where stormTeks are meh)

At present I am trying to sort out whether I should bother worrying about the lack of objective secured by taking the Mephrit Dynasty Cohort. It's easy enough to ally in 2 objSec units in NS but is this worth the bother?

So, I just acquired Exterminatus.

Besides the sudden OP-ness of the Overlords, the Formations are good. However, this book did not include that one in which the Monolith can replace destroyed models from an infantry unit.

Where are those ones found?

White dwarf...

are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

Yes, that single formation is a White Dwarf exclusive.

Guys, I'm going to take my "Oldcrons" out for their Last Hurrah before they get updated. Expect them to bring it home at TSHFT GT over some fierce competition.


The Necron Mephrit Dynasty with Necron allies (self-allying allowed).

Wish me luck!

changemod wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

Yes, that single formation is a White Dwarf exclusive.

serves to reason that the blood angel/flesh tearers from that are also exclusives then...

I'll have to dig up a copy

 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?
Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

http://bloodofkittens.com/formation-compendium/

White Dwarf 47

Thanks a lot for that. Did not know that BoK had a compendium, of course checking would help helped.

Will make that a go-to

So the general consensus with you guys is that we can run the C'tan Formation with Crypteks upgraded as Harbingers?

Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.

 Nilok wrote:
Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.

I am on the Warseer forum and the consensus on there is overwhelmingly that you cannot, and my RAW argument keeps getting shouted out. Its odd to see such a difference between forums.

col_impact wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.

I am on the Warseer forum and the consensus on there is overwhelmingly that you cannot, and my RAW argument keeps getting shouted out. Its odd to see such a difference between forums.

As I said in this forum's analysis of it, the idea comes from reading the individual sentence outside the context of the paragraph.

The paragraph spells out that in a Royal Court, you have permission to become the same Harbinger, thus having duplicate staves but not to have other duplicate wargear.

Reading the first sentence alone just gives permission to upgrade to harbingers of the same type, creating the false impression upgrading to a harbinger isn't a default thing if read without taking the full context into account.

Interestingly, this means you could duplicate other wargear in a Conclave if you had a good reason.

Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Seriously col_impact you are making a fuss about this here too?

col_impact wrote:
Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.

I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.

I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.

Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.

I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.

Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.

Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29

Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.

I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.

Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.

Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Whilst you do keep saying things I would agree with, I really don't see what you're hoping to accomplish at this stage. You appear to have spent a considerable amount of time and effort restating your opinion against opposition that only gets more polarised as you stretch quickly past the point where they would be willing to listen.

It's a dead end conversation.

 CrownAxe wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?

Tightens up my argument.

col_impact wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?

Tightens up my argument.

Maybe to an outsider, however, you have basically been arguing a thread by your self for the past 3 days. You have basically antagonized the people there who are exhausted trying to argue with you since you have made it clear, you are not going to let up your position.

Another problem is that you didn't let the discussion evolve naturally and instead tried to force it into your final state. By trying to force it towards to where you think it should be, the thread turned against you.

The thread on warseer is the funniest I've read in ages, I love a good forum fight. I figured it was a no brainer that crypteks could be upgraded as normal but actually if you read the rules then yeah RAW do make it pretty clear you can't upgrade the crypteks because they are not inside a royal court, staffs of light all round boys. col_impact must be trolling.

 Registered Ork Offender wrote:
The thread on warseer is the funniest I've read in ages, I love a good forum fight. I figured it was a no brainer that crypteks could be upgraded as normal but actually if you read the rules then yeah RAW do make it pretty clear you can't upgrade the crypteks because they are not inside a royal court, staffs of light all round boys. col_impact must be trolling.

Honestly, never mind whatever Impact's been saying, I read it before even looking at his opinion and could see the only way you'd get the impression Harbingers could only exist in a court is taking a sentence out of the context of the paragraph it's in.

What the RAW actually says in that paragraph:

-Court Crypteks have permission to upgrade to the same Harbinger type,
-Because without that specific permission, this restriction on having the same wargear would ban doing that.

It's not like anyone follows the exact RAW anyway, technically if you nitpick the precise wording as written you can only take one Harbinger type in a single Royal Court and nobody does that. Sometimes you just need to relax and play the game.

[asking because I don't know]
If you play the CotBO formation, would it be separate from your CAD army? Or is it possible to play the formation as part of it?
Eg.
Overlord + Royal Court (5 Crypteks, all promoted to various Harbingers, 2 of which join the Shard)

 skoffs wrote:
[asking because I don't know]
If you play the CotBO formation, would it be separate from your CAD army? Or is it possible to play the formation as part of it?
Eg.
Overlord + Royal Court (5 Crypteks, all promoted to various Harbingers, 2 of which join the Shard)

Formations are separate from CAD.

You have your army, this are all the models you field.
Your army is built up of Detachments, which are basically subgroups in the army.
A unit can only belong to a single Detachment and Formations are also Detachments.

So in short: No, a model is either part of the Detachment or the CotBO but not both.

Otherwise an army could be both a Mephrit Dynasty Cohort and a CAD, gaining the rules from both.
This restriction means you either gain the Objective Secured or the Crownworld Reawakened-rule.

I'm not interested in the actual rule discussion itself, but reading the discussion on WS back then was a pretty good piece of entertainment.

Well my hunch is that the crypteks in the CotBO are probably not meant to be upgradable, simply from the design standpoint that it makes the formation far too powerful for the points.

Than again, deathmarks + harbinger of despair is probably also far too powerful for the points.

Alcibiades wrote:
Well my hunch is that the crypteks in the CotBO are probably not meant to be upgradable, simply from the design standpoint that it makes the formation far too powerful for the points.

Than again, deathmarks + harbinger of despair is probably also far too powerful for the points.

I have tested it. It seems on par with the amount of points invested in it and definitely not OP. You have to remember we are talking about an Imperial Knight level of point expenditure.

I also tested... and my opponent was Dark Eldar. It went about as well as you would expect, the C'tan blew up a vehicle and got poisoned to death. On the other hand, my Warriors in Ghost Arks and fully kited Barge Lord won the game for me.

 Nilok wrote:
I also tested... and my opponent was Dark Eldar. It went about as well as you would expect, the C'tan blew up a vehicle and got poisoned to death. On the other hand, my Warriors in Ghost Arks and fully kited Barge Lord won the game for me.

That's the rock, paper, scissor effect of certain match-ups. Compare it to the performance of a stormTek. The stormTek nets insane value in vehicle heavy matchups (like Pacific Rim, IG) while being very meh against horde, MC matchups.

This leads to the tactic of generally kitting him out to shine and do best against the weakness of your army (which is MC/horde heavy).

So a VeilTek, TimeSplinterTek Shard (with ES, TA) might be the best overall since it complements your strengths and patches your weaknesses elsewhere the most.


A VeilTek, TimeSplinterTek Shard (with ES, TA) is definitely going to be lackluster in certain match-ups, but ideally those will be the matchups you are strongest in, so the rest of your army can compensate for the lackluster performance.

I'm not sure about print/shipping times, but
Does anyone think the codex would have already been printed by the time the Exterminatus books with the Mephrit stuff came out?
(being, does anyone think they will have addressed any issues that might have arisen from stuff like the CotBO Harbinger-or-Cryptek hubbub in the codex, or will we be looking to FAQs?)

What do people think about the Obelisk? With serpents/hornets being all the rage for eldar, and other skimmers and flyers being very popular in all the major armies at the moment it seems like a decent choice? Plus it has 4x5 shot tesla guns, with 3 likely able to hit 1 target, and the last if anything gets behind it. It's kinda squishy but it means you can still spam the ABs and still have even more tesla firepower while covering the air nicely.

The tranny ctan and vault are normally banned in events here.

Jpr wrote:
with 3 likely able to hit 1 target,

In my experience test-running a Monolith, it's very hard to even get two of the corner weapons to fire at the same unit.

If it hit FMCs with it's airburst of doom thing, it would be the ultimate word in anti-air, but as is it's a touch overspecific.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jpr wrote:
The tranny ctan and vault are normally banned in events here.

Try a Pylon?

It no longer having interceptor to hit ground targets with it's D weapon sucks, but granting an invulnerable save bubble to a roughly 30 inch sphere of the battlefield is a huge boon if you play it right, and if placed centrally can at least flux-arc a few things before being relegated to snapshots.

Pylons are Apocalypse Only It's the Gauss Pylon that can be taken in 40k.
I think it is way too pricey for what it does.
We should also not forget that Skyfire allows you to fire at Skimmers with full BS.
Still doesn't make it good enough for 400+ points.

So has anyone tried the new Wargear on a Barge Lord? Seems Beastly, just wondering if the points increase is worth it since he was a beat stick before as well.

On paper looks good to me, just looking for other opinions since if you deck him out it comes to 300+pts which is a sizable chunk of an army.

I think you missed the last 3/4 pages...

 jy2 wrote:

Guys, I'm going to take my "Oldcrons" out for their Last Hurrah before they get updated. Expect them to bring it home at TSHFT GT over some fierce competition.


The Necron Mephrit Dynasty with Necron allies (self-allying allowed).

Wish me luck!

Assuming those are fully kitted bargeLords and the Warlord has solar thermasite, the 5 immortals and 2 stormTeks I see put the list at 1870. How are you squeezing the extra 20 in?

If I use the Mephrit Dynasty Cohort FOC to field the contents of the Mephrit Dynasty Recursion Decurion, can I apply the benefits of both the models that make up the Mephrit Dynasty Recursion Decurion ?



If so, I plan on fielding units of warriors, 20 strong, with Ghost Arks, flanking the Monolith in the middle of them, inside the bubble of a void shield generator, and laughing maniacally.

"Yeah, to wipe out that unit of warriors you have to go through 3 layers of AV 12, then wound them, and get through the 4+ saves, before I get to bring them back on a 4+, re rolling ones, and automatically repair 1d3+1d6 of them a turn. No, I am not kidding and I assure you it's all legal"

Feel free to refer to this as the Souza Maneuver, so I can enjoy the rage whenever it is mentioned

Thankfully no, they are separate detachments, just like how a Firebase Cadre Formation doesn't get Objective Secured (if it had troops) from the CAD.

The formation is completely outside your Core Detachment so it does not get any of the benefits for that detachment.

If you attached a Necron Lord with a res orb from the Mephrit Dynasty, I believe it will count as part of that unit from the formation, so it still wouldn't grant the re-roll 1s.

col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Guys, I'm going to take my "Oldcrons" out for their Last Hurrah before they get updated. Expect them to bring it home at TSHFT GT over some fierce competition.


The Necron Mephrit Dynasty with Necron allies (self-allying allowed).

Wish me luck!

Assuming those are fully kitted bargeLords and the Warlord has solar thermasite, the 5 immortals and 2 stormTeks I see put the list at 1870. How are you squeezing the extra 20 in?

No immortals. All just warriors. I just use the "immortal" unit to represent ObSec Necron warrior allies.

 Nilok wrote:

The formation is completely outside your Core Detachment so it does not get any of the benefits for that detachment.

FOILED AGAIN !!!!

It is confusing though, since some of the Mephrit Formations are made up of other Mephrit Formations.

The Mephrit Dynasty Cohort is a Core Detachment, like a CAD.

The Guardians of Perdita is a special Formation that includes other formations, who each bring their own rules. You will notice that it does not include a Mephrit Dynasty Cohort, or the MDC include any formations within it.

It's actually saying that it has the same models as that Formation.
Technically it wouldn't have the rules from the small Formation, which is why the special rules give special permission to gain the rules from the smaller ones.

I'm not arguing the point, I was just pointing out what lead to the confusion.

So Pylonstar just won Caledonian Uprising, the biggest 40k event in the UK. List was:

Obyron

Overlord (Phaeron, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Warscythe)

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths (1 whip coil)

A Barge

A Barge

3 x Sentry Pylon (death rays obvs)

Eldar Allies:

Farseer (Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan)

3 x Jetbikes

The tournament featured ETC players from Scotland, England, Belgium and Holland (not sure if there were any others there) as well as local tounrament winners from all over the country. VERY competent generals.

Wish I'd painted mine up and brought them now, though I think James Ramsay obviously played them very well.

Kholzerino wrote:
So Pylonstar just won Caledonian Uprising, the biggest 40k event in the UK. List was:

Obyron

Overlord (Phaeron, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Warscythe)

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths (1 whip coil)

A Barge

A Barge

3 x Sentry Pylon (death rays obvs)

Eldar Allies:

Farseer (Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan)

3 x Jetbikes

The tournament featured ETC players from Scotland, England, Belgium and Holland (not sure if there were any others there) as well as local tounrament winners from all over the country. VERY competent generals.

Wish I'd painted mine up and brought them now, though I think James Ramsay obviously played them very well.

How did the event play the Sentry Pylons? Were they played RAW or by some house rule? RAW they are indeed beastly.

Kholzerino wrote:
So Pylonstar just won Caledonian Uprising, the biggest 40k event in the UK.

My little deathstar's all grown up... I'm so proud!

col_impact wrote:


How did the event play the Sentry Pylons? Were they played RAW or by some house rule? RAW they are indeed beastly.

I didn't get to observe the game, but Tim, the event organiser, said at the end "he did win with some ForgeWorld cheese, but trust me... rules as written they are even worse than played" which I presume to mean that they didn't do the crazy number of wounds that is not rules as written. What was very smart was combining it with a wall of Wraiths. Meaning that you have two very immediate threats to contend with. What army is going to deal with both in turn one?

He seemed to do quite a bit of walking them too, rather than always relying on deepstrike. Once central, they have considerable reach...

What's the Farseer for, may I ask, that it's good enough to strip down to troops only being a mandatory buy that can't contribute much in order to get him?

changemod wrote:
What's the Farseer for, may I ask, that it's good enough to strip down to troops only being a mandatory buy that can't contribute much in order to get him?

My guess... summoning....

col_impact wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
So Pylonstar just won Caledonian Uprising, the biggest 40k event in the UK. List was:

Obyron

Overlord (Phaeron, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Warscythe)

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths (1 whip coil)

A Barge

A Barge

3 x Sentry Pylon (death rays obvs)

Eldar Allies:

Farseer (Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan)

3 x Jetbikes

The tournament featured ETC players from Scotland, England, Belgium and Holland (not sure if there were any others there) as well as local tounrament winners from all over the country. VERY competent generals.

Wish I'd painted mine up and brought them now, though I think James Ramsay obviously played them very well.

How did the event play the Sentry Pylons? Were they played RAW or by some house rule? RAW they are indeed beastly.

Well, IMO, the Caledonian FAQ favored the pylons.

One of the biggest weaknesses of the pylons were against flyers/FMC's, and there were a lot of FMC's (flyrants) at the tournament.

However, Caledonia ruled it that the FDR can hit FMC's as long as the line did not target them initially (that they weren't the first unit hit). Thus, as long as you could hit another unit first, you could have the line hit FMC's as well.

Yep. Even so. I'm still surprised they did so well and impressed withthe generalship necessary to win with them.

Kholzerino wrote:
So Pylonstar just won Caledonian Uprising, the biggest 40k event in the UK. List was:

Obyron

Overlord (Phaeron, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Warscythe)

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths

5 Wraiths (1 whip coil)

A Barge

A Barge

3 x Sentry Pylon (death rays obvs)

Eldar Allies:

Farseer (Jetbike, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan)

3 x Jetbikes

The tournament featured ETC players from Scotland, England, Belgium and Holland (not sure if there were any others there) as well as local tounrament winners from all over the country. VERY competent generals.

Wish I'd painted mine up and brought them now, though I think James Ramsay obviously played them very well.

Hi I'm James the pylon player.

The list is really fun to use , the pylons are good but definitely not unbeatable I got lucky dodging counters.

The summonseer was in because originally the TO had ruled them raw and I was using him to summon daemons like screamers to increase the hits caused (lame I know.. I'm evil ) but 3-4 days before event tim changed his mind because of how bonkers it was which is fair enough. I used him to put extra pressure on or shore up backfield.

Any questions let me know.

So this won playing the conservative RAI way? (eg. hits generated are only applied to the individual units the line passes over, not the shared "Line passes over 2 models in unit A and 8 models in unit B, so both units take 20 S10 AP1 hits" way?)
If so, then all the more impressive!
(and further confirmation that the WAAC broken method need not always be played for SentryStar to be good)

 skoffs wrote:
So this won playing the conservative RAI way? (eg. hits generated are only applied to the individual units the line passes over, not the shared "Line passes over 2 models in unit A and 8 models in unit B, so both units take 20 S10 AP1 hits" way?)
If so, then all the more impressive!
(and further confirmation that the WAAC broken method need not always be played for SentryStar to be good)

For the record, when I first came up with this deathstar I didn't even realize the RAW implied shared hits stacking between different units...

Yeah played it RAI .

Jpr wrote:

Hi I'm James the pylon player.

The list is really fun to use , the pylons are good but definitely not unbeatable I got lucky dodging counters.

The summonseer was in because originally the TO had ruled them raw and I was using him to summon daemons like screamers to increase the hits caused (lame I know.. I'm evil ) but 3-4 days before event tim changed his mind because of how bonkers it was which is fair enough. I used him to put extra pressure on or shore up backfield.

Any questions let me know.

Congratulations James. Very well done!

I would take the Pylonstar to tournament play, but I was concerned about how it would fare against other flyer armies (namely, massed flyrants). The Pylonstar definitely has some counters, but the ruling by the Caledonian FAQ's made it much less of a worry against some of the counters.

So you are saying that you couldn't use the Stoneseer to summon daemons? Wow....that makes a huge difference.

BTW, what armies did you play against? Would love to hear more about your experiences at Caledonian.


BTW, I gave your Round #1 Tyranid opponent some advice against your army in the Tyranid tactica thread, though I'm afraid I probably gave it to him too late (after the tournament already started). Lol. (My advice was before I knew about the Caledonian FAQ rulings.)

 Wilson wrote:
So here's a question for you all;

How do I beat this???

Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.

But if I focus on the pylons then I'm ignoring the 15 wraiths Floating around the board.

I love this necron list. HATE the fact I have to play it though :[

I don't believe those pylons should be able to hit your FMC's when they are swooping so just go and kill everything else. You can save the pylonstar for last. Just make sure you spread out. And try to go first against them. Going 2nd can be really, really bad. You may think that staying within malanthrope range is good against them, but it really isn't.

BTW, pure RAW for the deathray is stupid. Say, you have 2 flyrants in range of your malan. He then hits all 3 with the DR line with 3 pylons. Do you know how many S10 AP1 hits each unit will take? By pure RAW, that's 18 S10 AP1 hits on EACH FRIGGIN' UNIT!!!

Anyways, some tips:

1. Always stay in cover or jink against Pylon shooting.

2. Target priority. I would go with this:

A) Farseer+jetbikes if you can reach them. You don't want that bastard summoning. Keep him in Shadows range if it is convenient, but don't go out of your ways to do so.

B) Wraiths or Annibarges. Don't go out of your ways to kill those annibarges because it may take you out of position. Whichever is more convenient (most likely the wraiths), focus on that. Make sure to FOCUS-FIRE on them.

C) Troops

D) Pylonstar. If you focus on it, try to position your flyrants so that they hit in on the side without any characters.

3. SPREAD OUT!

4. Be prepared to lose units. Don't play in too much of a protective mode. That's the problem with a lot of players sometimes. They're too afraid to lose units and so they don't play them like they should. Treat every single unit in your army as a pawn waiting to be sacrificed if it can bring your army closer to victory. And that includes your flyrants as well.

5. Mawloc can go after the pylonstar. They won't do as much damage due to majority T7, but they'll hit probably 6-8 times if they land directly. Priority should be the summoning farseer, but if that is not feasible, then go after the pylonstar with your mawloc(s). BTW, if the farseer uses his spirit stones to summon daemons, he won't have an Invuln save. That means you can potentially kill him with the mawloc or force him to do a lot of Look-Out-Sirs.

Ok, hope that helps.

 jy2 wrote:

Congratulations James. Very well done!

I would take the Pylonstar to tournament play, but I was concerned about how it would fare against other flyer armies (namely, massed flyrants). The Pylonstar definitely has some counters, but the ruling by the Caledonian FAQ's made it much less of a worry against some of the counters.

So you are saying that you couldn't use the Stoneseer to summon daemons? Wow....that makes a huge difference.

BTW, what armies did you play against? Would love to hear more about your experiences at Caledonian.


BTW, I gave your Round #1 Tyranid opponent some advice against your army in the Tyranid tactica thread, though I'm afraid I probably gave it to him too late (after the tournament already started). Lol. (My advice was before I knew about the Caledonian FAQ rulings.)

Yeah flyers it can be weak to, as you mentioned it had a favourable FAQ ruling which always helps. I had to fire all 3 beams the same direction from the same point (no splitting), couldn't shoot into combat but it was able to hit FMCs and no jinks were allowed to be declared from its shooting.

I played 2 tyranid players, 2 tau players and 1 daemon player. If the tourney had gone 6 rounds I probably would have played another tau broadside spam or Ad lance army. All my opponents were really friendly and played well and I was a bit lucky in some games.

I think I confused you with the summonseer. I was able to summon daemons but my reason for including him originally was because the pylons originally were ruled RAW hits so I generated daemons that I could use to increase the hits on targets...summon 3 screamers and turbo them in a line next to a knight = 24 str 10 on the knight..., however they changed to a RAI ruling for hits 3-4 days before the event which was fine..the organiser realised it would have been a bit silly.

Yeah that advise seems pretty decent, it was a difficult mission for him and setup so he was forced to come at me.

So I know this isnt about the pylonstar, but has anyone ran pistol upgrade on wraiths, maybe give them some overwatch or atleast a ranged weapon.

oz of the north wrote:
So I know this isnt about the pylonstar, but has anyone ran pistol upgrade on wraiths, maybe give them some overwatch or atleast a ranged weapon.

The pistol is a heavy weapon. End of story

The guy who came 4th at Caledonian with necrons was using a unit of 6 wraiths with exile pistols with a relentless overlord, obyron and Zahndrekh (dont think zahndrekh was in the wraiths but he was in the list). He was using them to tap out imperial knights, wraithknights, chapter masters all sorts. Seemed to work well.

 CrownAxe wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
So I know this isnt about the pylonstar, but has anyone ran pistol upgrade on wraiths, maybe give them some overwatch or atleast a ranged weapon.

The pistol is a heavy weapon. End of story

I was actually thinking of using the particle caster the pistol upgrade not transdimensional beamer. Though regarding the transdimensional beamer wouldnt it be great so they would be able to do something during the shooting phase.

oz of the north wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
So I know this isnt about the pylonstar, but has anyone ran pistol upgrade on wraiths, maybe give them some overwatch or atleast a ranged weapon.

The pistol is a heavy weapon. End of story

I was actually thinking of using the particle caster the pistol upgrade not transdimensional beamer. Though regarding the transdimensional beamer wouldnt it be great so they would be able to do something during the shooting phase.

Yes, the Pistol is actually an ideal 5 point upgrade to remember if you're a few points short at the end of your list and running Wraiths.

One extra strength 6 shot before charging. Not super amazing, but worthwhile anyhow just because it's pretty much the only 5 point wargear item in the codex.

The Transdimensional Beamer on the other hand is an utterly worthless waste of points.

I'm playing that Necron list tomorrow (the beamer wraiths). He also had the C'Tan formation. The TO rules that you could NOT upgrade the Crypteks. So he had no veil on the C'Tan. So he too a monolith. And still came 4th. Out of 180 players. Props! And there was every kind of cheesey, broken combo there! Adamantine Lance with Everything. 15 broadsides. 6 units of wraithguard in serpents won the pure Eldar btw. For those interested. And there were more Eldar than anything else there.

The meta has never been fresher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the Grey Knights / Chaos Demons player finished top twenty also...

So, with pictures of the new detachments coming out.... what are thoughts on this? Are the detachment limitations some events issue going to have to go the way of the dodo?

That new detachment thing leaves me with tons of questions, and no tactical thoughts. As far as I can tell there isn't any bonus listed for following that chart. I am willing to bet it will be some strange detachment that is rarely taken.

Kholzerino, was it GK/daemons as a combo? or just that both armies were in top 20?

I can tell you right now barring any horrific changes like no more CCB w/ uberlord and Annihilation barges I will be using the hell out of the Deathbringer formation or the Annihilation formation.

Command Barge
Command Barge

Troops
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe

Fast Attack
???

H. Support
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Formation
Death Bringer
2-4 Doomscythes


My big curiosity is the Doomsday Ark and what changes may be made to that.

Hollismason wrote:
I can tell you right now barring any horrific changes like no more CCB w/ uberlord and Annihilation barges I will be using the hell out of the Deathbringer formation or the Annihilation formation.

Command Barge
Command Barge

Troops
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe
5 Troops w/ Nightscythe

Fast Attack
???

H. Support
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Formation
Death Bringer
2-4 Doomscythes


My big curiosity is the Doomsday Ark and what changes may be made to that.

Sorry, i think i missed that. How are you getting 4 Doomscythes from a formation, is it 'Death Bringer'? If so, what is the source for that formation?

It's over in the rumour forum.
With the new Codex we will have:
-Detachments
-Formations
-Decurion chart

That last one will probably deserve its own thread in YMDC.
The problem is that we cannot discuss tactics since we don't know the additional rules granted by the Auxiliary and Command-Formations.
The Core is already known, it gives MTC, Relentless and rerolls on RP of 1 within 12" of the Overlord.
Not bad for such a small Formation.

The Decurion formation looks really interesting. Yes, I will have an army of

2 CCB
2 Warriors
1 Tomblades
1 Immortals

9 C'Tans