After they've promised me that the mules are going to be resin... I'm considering those as well. The army deal just has one though right? Screw that, pack of mules and a 20/20 infantry would serve better...but if the shipping is high enough I may still stay away.
I'm going to do a fair bit of noodling around with the PM to get maximum minis with minimum shipping. It's going to be difficult, I know...
Also, I'd gotten what I hope is final confirmation on materials for a few pieces.
Plague Bursters - Metal
Plague Murder Birds - Metal
Veer-myn Tunnel Runner - TBC Resin or Metal
Veer- myn Tangle - TBC Resin or Metal (it's being annoying)
GCPS Mule - Resin
Straight from Mantic's blue box of comments. Hope that helps others in deciding what they want!
CptJake wrote: I wish the guy with the grenade launcher had something indicating he was carrying extra rounds.
One of the earlier renders showed a guy with spare grenade rounds on his arm. I'm betting there's a binch of glue on accessories like that. If you notice, one of the Rangers has a knife sheathed on his left forearm.
After seeing these, I think I'm ready to put in my pledge now. I'm satisfied by what I see. As an added bonus, they look like they can fit in with Anvil's Afterlife range, too.
The above image shows the new components that are used to Plague-ify the Hornet. These include everything from damaged hull plating to makeshift blades and, of course, corpse trophies. These are all additional Hard Plastic Components included in the kit.
Was hoping more for an "poorly maintained" angle rather than "adding stupid decorations". Oh well, I'm using the stock Corp versions anyway. The base model is totally sweet.
I like the regular one too. Guess it's supposed to be more of a not-valkyrie, I was hoping for a not-stormtalon but I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to add some missiles and guns around the nose area.
That now totally needs to be stenciled under the cockpit.
I feel if they'd done the poorly maintained style it would be too orky in the end.....not a big fan of the decorations myself, but at least the option is there for those that want it.
Does anyone else get the impression from Mad Max's posture that he's faking his distress over being tied down? I get a real Bill Murray-in-Little Shop of Horrors vibe from that mini.
Péter Nagy A'right, any words about the Warpath:firefight ruleset?
1 hr Mantic Games
Mantic Games Péter Nagy - the baby that wont get born! we have had about 3 attmepts at this! finally we have got somethign that looks promising from one of the KoW rules committee. I think we will ge tit into a format that people can have a go and share them - I only seems fair to extand the deadline for the pledge manager too becuase people need time to have a go and see if they want to come in. Watch out for both those announcments Matt Gilbert fyi
See, I knew this was going to happen with Firefight. Even now we're seeing a "soon" response. I was told basically the exact same thing while the KS was active. They were "testing" it and they'd have something for us soon after the KS ended to share or somesuch. Mantic has easily earned my views of "believe it when I see it" on everything from sculpts to releases to rules.
So is this this first hint that Warpath might slip from September given the TWD has to ship in August it seems inevitable (that and the lack of Firefight rules)
Johannes Dingle What is the planned release date for warpath?
34 mins
Mantic Games
Mantic Games not yet confirmed. Once we have firefight nailed down we will confirm shipping dates for the KS and the release date will be a couple of months after that
1 · 24 mins
I pledged $1 for this because I want KOW style rules I can use my IG army in, but I'm actually becoming tempted by the GCPS renders...
Here's my problem: I don't need basic human troops with heavy weapons. I have a huge IG army for all my GCPS footslogging needs. But... I want a sci-fi, near future, pseudo elysian airmobile army. I'm looking at pretty slick renders for infantry models I can preorder for a buck a piece, and drop ships that come down to $25 per in three packs. That being said... what, exactly, is the market for used Valkyrie hulls right now, and would it be cheaper to buy them instead of paying shipping and waiting on the Hornets?
As for the troops, 20 for $20 is awesome, but what will they be at retail, when I won't have to wait for Mantic's fulfillment to get to me? If you look at the Abyssals, the Kickstarter had them at $15 for 20, while they retail for $30 for 20, or $50 for 40. The warstore will throw 20% off on top of that, so KS backers paid $0.75 a piece, while retail customers will payjust under a buck a piece. Based on that, let's assume Mantic packages the GCPS at $35 for 20, but I can buy them retail for about $28 for 20.
The math indicates that I might want to hold off, keep my money, and see what I want in six months. OTOH... the thought of getting a big box of shock troops for under a hundo is very appealing!
Polonius wrote: I pledged $1 for this because I want KOW style rules I can use my IG army in, but I'm actually becoming tempted by the GCPS renders...
Here's my problem: I don't need basic human troops with heavy weapons. I have a huge IG army for all my GCPS footslogging needs. But... I want a sci-fi, near future, pseudo elysian airmobile army. I'm looking at pretty slick renders for infantry models I can preorder for a buck a piece, and drop ships that come down to $25 per in three packs. That being said... what, exactly, is the market for used Valkyrie hulls right now, and would it be cheaper to buy them instead of paying shipping and waiting on the Hornets?
As for the troops, 20 for $20 is awesome, but what will they be at retail, when I won't have to wait for Mantic's fulfillment to get to me? If you look at the Abyssals, the Kickstarter had them at $15 for 20, while they retail for $30 for 20, or $50 for 40. The warstore will throw 20% off on top of that, so KS backers paid $0.75 a piece, while retail customers will payjust under a buck a piece. Based on that, let's assume Mantic packages the GCPS at $35 for 20, but I can buy them retail for about $28 for 20.
The math indicates that I might want to hold off, keep my money, and see what I want in six months. OTOH... the thought of getting a big box of shock troops for under a hundo is very appealing!
I'll wait on the Warstore/Miniature Market personally. If only because of shipping costs eating into the discount too. I put a buck in for rules and on the possibility I might want something for the Forge Fathers. I didn't get excited and the regular FF coming from the DZ2 KS so I'm good on those too.
As for the troops, 20 for $20 is awesome, but what will they be at retail, when I won't have to wait for Mantic's fulfillment to get to me? If you look at the Abyssals, the Kickstarter had them at $15 for 20, while they retail for $30 for 20, or $50 for 40. The warstore will throw 20% off on top of that, so KS backers paid $0.75 a piece, while retail customers will payjust under a buck a piece. Based on that, let's assume Mantic packages the GCPS at $35 for 20, but I can buy them retail for about $28 for 20.
The math indicates that I might want to hold off, keep my money, and see what I want in six months. OTOH... the thought of getting a big box of shock troops for under a hundo is very appealing!
The other part of that equation is the shipping. I'll take a look at it all this weekend or next and decide what I want to do. Use or add to my $200-odd sitting there, or ask for a refund after seeing what AU shipping is like for a few sprues.
Polonius wrote: I pledged $1 for this because I want KOW style rules I can use my IG army in, but I'm actually becoming tempted by the GCPS renders...
Here's my problem: I don't need basic human troops with heavy weapons. I have a huge IG army for all my GCPS footslogging needs. But... I want a sci-fi, near future, pseudo elysian airmobile army. I'm looking at pretty slick renders for infantry models I can preorder for a buck a piece, and drop ships that come down to $25 per in three packs. That being said... what, exactly, is the market for used Valkyrie hulls right now, and would it be cheaper to buy them instead of paying shipping and waiting on the Hornets?
As for the troops, 20 for $20 is awesome, but what will they be at retail, when I won't have to wait for Mantic's fulfillment to get to me? If you look at the Abyssals, the Kickstarter had them at $15 for 20, while they retail for $30 for 20, or $50 for 40. The warstore will throw 20% off on top of that, so KS backers paid $0.75 a piece, while retail customers will payjust under a buck a piece. Based on that, let's assume Mantic packages the GCPS at $35 for 20, but I can buy them retail for about $28 for 20.
The math indicates that I might want to hold off, keep my money, and see what I want in six months. OTOH... the thought of getting a big box of shock troops for under a hundo is very appealing!
The PM shipping will be nearly $20 in addition. Wait for retail.
The funny thing is.. a lot of the time, Miniature Market posts up the exact bundles from Kickstarters at similar prices. Then you just rack up the free shipping and wonder why you messed with that silly Kickstarter business in the first place.
Alternative hypothesis: Mantic are actually trying to get Warpath done too fast and are breaking deadlines that weren't realistic anyway, because Ronnie has heard via contacts that something is going to happen to 40k later this year, just like how he had enough of a warning about AoS to rush KoW 2nd into production as soon as possible, and damn the torpedoes.
KoW 2nd still missed some of the proposed deadlines, but they got it out 2 weeks or so after the Stormfront Sigmarine catastrophe, more or less in time to capitalise - albeit with resin delivery issues, rushed book errors, and a further delay for the two new armies - and certainly months ahead of what they originally planned. Rumours about 40k, formations, and all Marines all the time are starting to gather steam...
NTRabbit wrote: Alternative hypothesis: Mantic are actually trying to get Warpath done too fast and are breaking deadlines that weren't realistic anyway, because Ronnie has heard via contacts that something is going to happen to 40k later this year, just like how he had enough of a warning about AoS to rush KoW 2nd into production as soon as possible, and damn the torpedoes.
KoW 2nd still missed some of the proposed deadlines, but they got it out 2 weeks or so after the Stormfront Sigmarine catastrophe, more or less in time to capitalise - albeit with resin delivery issues, rushed book errors, and a further delay for the two new armies - and certainly months ahead of what they originally planned. Rumours about 40k, formations, and all Marines all the time are starting to gather steam...
Now I want to make tinfoil Hat marines . It very well could be these reasons, but sooner or later the new CEO of GW will figure out who is Ronnie's drinking buddy and then that will be that.
Mantic has reliable sources for info like that. So they know whats happening and what is just trolling gaming communities. They are close friends with a lot of the people at GW including the design studio.
Warhams-77 wrote: Mantic has reliable sources for info like that. So they know whats happening and what is just trolling gaming communities. They are close friends with a lot of the people at GW including the design studio.
Pretty much fact. Everyone tries to be Team GW or Team Mantic or Team Warlord like there's some big rivalry and then you see a pic of Jervis, Alessio, Rick, Paul, and John all having a pint over a game of Napoleonics at Alan and Michael's house. There really is no big rivalry and they're all friends that hang out and play games; they just happen to be also run (or be lead designers for) small and large miniatures gaming companies.
I think everyone will be happy to know that I controlled myself on this one! I only got the Enforcer Vehicle battlegroup once, an additional interceptor, then everything else was GCPS! Plus Blaine.
$60 in shipping. I have so much frigging plasic coming though...2 full GCPS groups, mules (ok, resin, w/e), hornets...wow.
Azazelx wrote: ....which will no doubt get rolled over into post-CNY because unforeseen delays - as all their other HIPS has in recent-ish times.
Better right and late, than early and men at arms?
Absolutely. It's still worth pointing out that if they're calling "end of the year" while we're only in early-mid Feb it's unlikely to happen that way.
Do I detect an undertone of anger in that title, or in those prices? A great deal for anyone who can act fast enough, definitely. (If you're reading this and didn't know about the sale before, you're already too late. Don't blame me. I didn't buy anything.) But they're basically liquidating Deadzone and Dreadball completely, vowing never to restock either line (that's what they define R.I.P. sale as, products are never coming back.) In the USA we've taken Miniature Market's willingness to stock Mantic and then sell it off cheap for granted - it's happened often enough, after all. But I have to wonder if this is the last straw, and they're cutting ties for good.
I'm starting to wonder if Mantic are in trouble. If Miniature Market is basically exiling them based on poor performance, and their sales are at all representative of the US retail market appetite for Mantic products, it would seem to be a very bad time to be cutting back on kickstarter deals and increasing their product prices across the board.
Unless, perhaps, they're drowning already and don't have a choice?
For as good as Dreadball is supposed to sell, or at least the original game, the teams and various add ons all get marked down pretty regularly.
Not that I've bought a whole lot at retail from Mantic- some yes, but not much. It's always nice to at least have options, but with Miniature Market doing an Age of Sigmar to the mini ranges they carry is sad.
Nostromodamus wrote: Well, The War Store may be getting more of my money in future now that MM have quit stocking GW and seemingly Mantic.
I wonder if the purge will carry on to other ranges?
They're purging a LOT of stuff - full list is attached to this post as an excel file! Remember, Miniature Market is the same company that was doing a firesale on Warmachine for a few months at one point in time, and that is obviously a successful product line.
I just posted the Mantic items in this thread so folks could get a good deal - not to start a panic . For instance, they're liquidating KR cases for X-wing in the sale, too... and I just got a KR case in the mail from KR directly yesterday, and it's incredible!
So, I wouldn't take something being a part of the sale as an indication it's a poor product. They've got the excellent Dreamforge Leviathan weapon arms in the sale, too!
Mars attack stuff also RIPped, as well as Dust, arcane legion and golem arcana. All games which have been dropped by the manufactures. I think Deadzone got dumped since 2.0 is out/coming out with the Kickstarter and dreadball is doa because I've read places that they have it all fleshed out already.
Also Miniaturemarket just recently was hiring, they are getting into Magic singles online, so they are making space for that set up.
Vermonter wrote: I'm starting to wonder if Mantic are in trouble. If Miniature Market is basically exiling them based on poor performance, and their sales are at all representative of the US retail market appetite for Mantic products, it would seem to be a very bad time to be cutting back on kickstarter deals and increasing their product prices across the board.
Unless, perhaps, they're drowning already and don't have a choice?
Pretty long bow to draw when the only source is Miniature Market, well noted for having the most bizarre sale and stocking practises around.
Well, Mantic is pulling all kinds of Shenanigans with surprise price hikes and the TWD Kickstarter. (Kickstopper?). Sure, it's possible Snowball really knocked over the windmill, but after so many disasters under his care, Napoleon is starting to look a bit two legged.
Vermonter wrote: I'm starting to wonder if Mantic are in trouble. If Miniature Market is basically exiling them based on poor performance, and their sales are at all representative of the US retail market appetite for Mantic products, it would seem to be a very bad time to be cutting back on kickstarter deals and increasing their product prices across the board.
Unless, perhaps, they're drowning already and don't have a choice?
Pretty long bow to draw when the only source is Miniature Market, well noted for having the most bizarre sale and stocking practises around.
Well, I did qualify what I said with "if," and "perhaps." So consider the bow drawn, but only on a metaphysical level, as one arrow among an infinite sea of arrows, Schroedinger's Cat, Occam's razor, and other concepts science fiction has beaten into uninspired cliches.
As others have noted, Deadzone is coming out with an updated version. That one certainly makes sense.
I'm curious about Dreadball. That's supposed to be a fun game. But I don't think Mantic has plans to "redo" that one, right? I figured that one is still selling ok...
Yeah, it's gotta be a case of, "everythings released now for dreadball, we've made all the sales we can, dump it."
Which is kinda sad, really, as it IS an excellent game. I call it my "schoolnight game." - If a mate is ever bored on a night during the week, they can come round play some dreadball and it's not a big time / effort investment for us to play a game.
I've never played Dreadball (sports minis games just aren't my cup of tea), but I'd be surprised if they just leave it to linger. GW sold Bloodbowl for years without a lot of new material.
I think what hurt Dreadball is that they released so, so much so fast. I get that the Kickstarters blew up, but there are what, two dozen full teams?
It's really hard to sustain growth when you release everything in the first year or so.
Compel wrote: Including the Mars Attacks team, there's 25 teams now, with 3 game variants.
Wow, that's actually more official material than Bloodbowl ever had.
I think the weird thing is that it's a fully supported Mantic game, with rules for all models and models for all rules.
Theophony wrote:This is what happens when you release all the models and rules for a game all in one edition. It explains why GW does what they do .
I don't think that is the issue but rather an issue of scope. The real question IMO should rather be if a limited boardgame about a sport IN SPAAAACE! actually ever needed two dozen different teams in the first place.
I mean, it's kinda worth saying a couple of the teams are bugfixes of the first teams (Brokkrs > Forge Fathers specifically) but... I dunno. My gaming club plays a *lot* of Blood Bowl. A *lot* of it. And they use many, many teams, official and unofficial (Slaan comes to mind...)
I think a case of "too much too soon" is a very valid argument. Like I said, I really enjoy dreadball, but even so, I've only played 3 games of Dreadball Xtreme - a game variant I kinda enjoy more than original Dreadball. I've yet to use any of the new teams in classic Dreadball. Or even assemble most of the others.
Nor have I even looked at the multiplayer Dreadball Xtreme sets.
Ok, sure, I'm a kickstarter backer and therefore got a HUGE amount of things delivered to me at once. Even so, I'm WAY behind in dreadball stuff. There's also the mental commitment as well, - I need to figure out how these 13 new teams play before I field them. - And, of course, they play slightly differently in Dreadball Xtreme and Original Dreadball.
It suddenly becomes a lot of work for a 'schoolnight' game.
And the fact that people believe it's American football in SPAAAACCE is also part of the problem. The game is more like jamming hockey and basketball together. It has goals and no endzones.
I've corrected the sports reference in the previous post. Either way, the real question was whether a boardgame about a sport in space really needed as many or more teams as some real sports leagues stands. Some teams will invariably suck either in the rules or the visual design and won't be popular/bought. Others won't really be supported as much for internal reasons. I guess I'd ask whether it would have been better to have a dozen teams with some subsequent smaller releases/additions rather than the two dozen previously mentioned (I don't collect/play it so can't confirm that number personally). Two dozen teams for a niche game seems like alot to expect players and stores to utilize and for Mantic themselves to support.
With hindsight and, this might have influenced some of mantic choices with TWD, perhaps a better situation would have been to go fornsomething like the X-wing method.
Perhaps only release one new team to retail every one to two months, but include the teams rules in that box set. Then you can 'reprint' teams depending on their popularity and you're not overloading the stores with, I think there's about 50 different SKUs for Dreadball all at once.
It (Deadzone) goes to print today, and we are getting on with casting the minis. Some plastic are here already and more arriving in early March. We are aiming for Late March to begin shipping.
Dreadball would really benefit from a high quality second edition a few years from now, to replace the restic teams with board game plastic, 8 unique sculpts per team rather than 4.
Could easily have 4 teams in the base box, and then from there, just have expansions containing 4 new teams, MVPS and rulebook at a decent price.
Just like Dungeon Saga that way, £50 base game, £30 expansions, absolutely loaded with stuff.
The board game retail model of base + expansions works really well, since selling in bulk allows the RRP to be lower and it works so much better for retail stores if they can stock 10 SKU's for the complete range rather than 70.
Also, the Deadzone book looks amazing, you're all going to be very happy with it. Lots and lots of work from the RC on this, the weekend was spent with all of us doing a fine-tooth-comb proofread of the entire final print file (although the final proof-read to remove page XXX is out of our hands. :p). The shipping on this has been delayed by a couple of months, but the time spent really was completely necessary to make sure that the release and rules are actually good and properly balanced.
The Infestation expansion book is 100% RC-written, other than the background text, we managed to go beyond the scope of what Mantic asked us for and were able to include some extra content, such as weather effects and an alternative d88 table if you want to play a campaign in the freezing Veer-myn infested tunnels of Exham IV.
The 5-mission linked campaign in the Infestation book is fantastic, I think everyone who gets a copy of the KS will want to play through it at least once, it escalates from small skirmish to a full-scale battle on a space station, with wins/losses granting bonuses to future missions. It is possible to play through it in a single day since the new rules play so quickly. The fixed campaign avoids the complexity of specific terrain setup/ extra special rules that was a problem with Nexus Psi and keeps things reasonably simple and themed.
Everything from V1 gets updated stats, if it isn't in the book, it is in an expansion (such as Infestation).
Really excited for the release of V2, I know some people didn't want the game changed, but it really really needs it, V1 was just overcomplex, slow and horribly unbalanced once you started powergaming it.
And don't worry about stat cards, GCPS/ Mars Attacks lists.
Just wanted to share this pic from the blog. The name of the picture might imply this is a new starter set. although I don't see wounds and activation counters? It would mean that the starter is all plastic now though if it is Enforcers versus forge fathers. Might make more sense to have ruins in a new boxset then the newer terrain would. I'm assuming they have lots of left over ruins AND did a smaller number of industrail battlezones, all speculation for sure. I wonder if Infestation and veermyn will get a contagion style expansion box.
I see 5 enforcers, 5 pathfinders and 10 steel warriors. Those sprues would give a pretty good range of options over the current box DZ box.
Not sure what retail will involve at this point, that picture might simply be a publicity shot.
Counters aren't finalized at the moment, those are v1 counters in the pic, they are producing a full set of counters on a punch sheet.
A V2 box with Enforcers, Forgefathers and ruins would make a lot of sense. They could probably offer it at a lower price point too.
@highlord - If by character progression you mean the campaign rules, they are as can be seen in the latest beta, characters can gain stat increases, skills and injuries throughout a campaign. Much ore balanced and revised system compared to v1. Points costs do not change when a model increases in rank or is injured, the general idea is that things balance out over the course of a campaign.
Oh yes everything I said was speculation based on the pic.
Can't wait to see the final book, and the campaign pack. the d88 list is one of the better additions to the campaign for me. Makes it feel less like just after game book keeping.
We home brewed weather and environment hazard charts for V1. Thats pretty exciting that the infestation pack will have some in it too.
that bit about stat cards post before last sure is mysterious.
Are those clumps of rubble from an existing terrain sprue?
I think I have the damaged battlezone somewhere but that package came in before I moved so I never got around to opening it.
MLaw wrote: Are those clumps of rubble from an existing terrain sprue?
I think I have the damaged battlezone somewhere but that package came in before I moved so I never got around to opening it.
I could see Dreadball benefiting from a boardgame plastic re-launch years from now. Currently the problem would be finding people willing to kickstart teams they've already invested in; I suspect that there would be very few current Mantic fans willing to do so. The marketing approach you describe, though, sounds exactly like what Dreadball needs to realize its full market potential. I'm happy to have my "early Mantic" Dreadball models, though. I'm not as allergic to restic as some people are, though I understand their complaint. (Which is accurate. It does take forever to clean.)
As for your description of the RC's contribution to the new Deadzone rulebook / Infestation, it sounds excellent. Especially the proofreading with a fine-toothed comb.
To be perfectly frank, since Mantic is a for-profit company and not a charity, I have mixed feelings about them benefiting so much from the work of unpaid volunteers. I know that they have finally hired Matt after his years of service, and I really hope that for those of you on the RC with ambitions of working in the gaming industry, that they will reward your efforts as well. A free rulebook or master resin figure for the hours you've put in - which I understand at this point are a lot of hours - really isn't sufficient. If Mantic are serious about the Rules Committee being a "try out" / unpaid internship kind of thing, I hope those of you who demonstrate talent, and have the interest, will find your way into their employ, or failing that, that Mantic can perhaps put in a good word that will get you hired by another company.
There's potentially a lot riding on this new rulebook. If you guys really turn Deadzone around in a big (successful) way, Mantic may need to rethink their approach to hiring game designers.
At any rate, I intend to give your rules a fair hearing with some test games before making any judgments. That in itself means I'm more interested in playing Deadzone than I have been in a long time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding the new Deadzone starter box, I'm guessing the mat included will be paper? It looks like a paper one in the picture. That would also allow them to significantly lower the price of the starter. It's less quality in the box, but if it helps them price the box set appealingly, I'd call that a good decision. If the set remains expensive, it's more baffling Mantic price-raising, which I think will hurt the sales of the set.
For someone new to the line, that all-hard plastic starter looks pretty solid to me, and at least in terms of including ruins terrain, it has something to offer that most other starter sets don't include. But would Mantic have been better off doing Enforcers vs. Plague again? I'm not sure how big the market is for Space Dwarfs or Space Rats, honestly. If I ran the zoo, I would have gone the safe "armored guys vs. mutants" route using the all plastic 3rd Gen plague mutants. As it is, you have tall armored guys facing off against short armored guys, both sides being grey in terms of order vs. chaos, good vs. evil, etc. Grey vs. grey may be more mature and appealing to some, but I wonder how it sells. (I don't claim to know, either. But making your sci-fi starter Space Marine vs. Space Dwarf, rather than vs. mutants or vs. more alien looking aliens does fall outside the norm, hence the question.)
Just noticed something - I wouldn't put an image of the Peacekeeper captain and a Peacekeeper trooper vs. Forge Guard on the starter set rulebook if none of those figures are included in the starter set. Nice art, odd choice.
@Vermonter
Yeah it seems like a weird move but plague are a ways out I'd imagine and the plastics weren't part of the DZI KS maybe thats why? Aprils too close for 3a plastics I assume. Also there are two more potential starters.
I would Imagine that if it isn't a mouse mat than that would cut down on cost. That being said the mouse mat is really good.
25 bucks or whatever is worth it if it is. probably a year and a half and it hasn't frayed or come apart. I'm not exactly gentle and I don't store it all that well.
The box could potentially be alot smaller too. The Deadzone box is pretty big to me at least. it's not exactly take to the FLGS size.
@Gimgamgoo the KS is. We're assuming this is a new retail starter put together using the kits funded in the KS. The update was talking about the retail release.
Automatically Appended Next Post: New Warpath update
Pledge Manager Extension
We’ve been working hard behind the scenes on Warpath Firefight. As this is a game that many of you made requests for, we’ve known from day one that it was important that we got it right. Firefight has been through a fair few permutations over the last few months as we’ve fought to make it into the game that you want to play. It has had lots of different people involved to make sure it covers everything it needs to.
We’re making good progress at this point, but we aren’t willing to release the game until it’s ready. With the current progress being made on the game, we’ll be aiming to do this within the next month.
We know that a lot of you have been waiting on the Firefight rules in order to make your decisions on the final selections in your pledge. Since we haven’t released the rules at this point, we have made the decision to extend the pledge manager and give you more time to decide.
The Warpath Pledge Manager will now close at midnight GMT on the 31st March 2016.
If you do not fill out the pledge manager you will not get your pledge level during the shipment and we cannot guarantee that we will have enough stock to supply your full pledge.
Please fill out the pledge manager before 31st March. You will receive a confirmation email when you successfully check out from the pledge manager, and can check your order by clicking ‘My Orders’ on the pledge manager. If you do not receive a confirmation email and/or there are no orders on your account then you have not successfully completed the pledge manager.
So, if you are waiting on the new rules to inform your selections, you now have plenty of time.
We’ve also received a few comments from backers who want to fill out the pledge manager and pledge for The Walking Dead Kickstarter - with the extension, now you can do both!
One possible issue with Dreadball sales is that with only three figure types per player, it becomes really easy to proxy things without it getting confusing.
But surely that applies to Bloodbowl just as much? Some teams only have 2 positions! It might be people not actually liking/being willing to pay for the models, but I thought they were pretty good for the price, and conceptually distinct from other stuff on the market.
Thought that DBO, at least, was a decent seller for them though!
Deadzone-relevant comment from Ronnie in the Mantic Blog:
We will have a starter set with Forgefather vs. Enforcers. The Infestation will be an expansion with the Veer-Myn coming a month or 2 later – except backers who get it all
So it looks like there's 3 major products in "Deadzone 2.0" now - a big hardback rulebook, a starter set (presumably with cut down/set-specific rules) and Infestation, an expansion specifically for Deadzone 2.0.
Bioptic wrote: Deadzone-relevant comment from Ronnie in the Mantic Blog:
We will have a starter set with Forgefather vs. Enforcers. The Infestation will be an expansion with the Veer-Myn coming a month or 2 later – except backers who get it all
So it looks like there's 3 major products in "Deadzone 2.0" now - a big hardback rulebook, a starter set (presumably with cut down/set-specific rules) and Infestation, an expansion specifically for Deadzone 2.0.
So how long untill they decide to do DZ 3.0? Is all my current DZ 1.0 stuff now obsolete with 2.0? That would be my Acrylic tokens, Secret Weapon DZ board, all the rulebooks, the (awfully bad) hard back book I made sure I spent extra money in the KS so I could receive it, all that can go into the bin? Why should i trust Mantic with rules anymore when they rush things out the door and sort it out later with another KS?
overtyrant wrote: So how long untill they decide to do DZ 3.0? Is all my current DZ 1.0 stuff now obsolete with 2.0? That would be my Acrylic tokens, Secret Weapon DZ board, all the rulebooks, the (awfully bad) hard back book I made sure I spent extra money in the KS so I could receive it, all that can go into the bin? Why should i trust Mantic with rules anymore when they rush things out the door and sort it out later with another KS?
Part of me wants to comment that most people would rather have new rules that work than save money with lousy rules, but I think that root problem was that DZ1 was a rush job.
To get to your real question "Why should you trust Mantic?" Alas, you probably shouldn't. They're good guys with enthusiasm and a love for gaming, but they really haven't shown any ability to become a professional gaming company.
sadly I think very few comppanies really nail a rule set first time,
so if you buy version 1 you should expect either
a frustrating time with lots of house ruling problems (bad)
lots of errata from the company (better, but not ideal this is the old method of fix)
or
a fairly rapid 2nd edition (again not ideal, but it tends to happen faster nowadays as there is more competition, and more communiction between potential purchacers)
Not sure how your board would be obsolete, most of your tokens are usable and necessary. This edition did come out a bit sooner than I think most anticipated but it was needed.
The rules needed cleaning up.
All your models from DZ1 are still in. Heck even minis that arent for DZ. The old WP minis all have stats (at least the ones I own.)
DZ1s problem was that they had no idea the campaign would go that far, alot of new minis needed rules and alot of those minis fell outside of the scope (Striders, bikes and rebs).
@Polonius . They have a 100% KS success rate. No failed or undelivered KSs. Thousands of backers. They are willing to listen to problems with rules and actually hold alphas and betas. I'd be fine with the untrustworthy statement if it weren't for companies like Prodos and GW occupying the same space.
Why should you trust mantic? The line of fantasy and scifi mini's in hard plastic.
How about sensible female scifi minis also in hard plastic?
What getting you everything in the box ala DZ1 without nickel and diming you to death just to play the game.
What about straight to retail support post KS for KOW? What about mantic basically welcoming refugees with open arms and without forcing them to restart their armies. Despite the fact that it wasn't a very professional move.
Polonius wrote: Part of me wants to comment that most people would rather have new rules that work than save money with lousy rules, but I think that root problem was that DZ1 was a rush job.
I know this is a prevailing opinion that somehow DZ1 is unplayable (contrast in 2013 when it was hot gak), but I enjoyed several dozen games of DZ1.0 with no problem... I thought the rules were ace. I wasn't doing any tournament style games, so perhaps that's where the problems were.
Compel wrote: From my, albeit rather limited experience of Deadzone:
I think DZ1 is a great game, as long as you play "Enforcers VS Plague", or "Asterians VS ForgeFathers" (but I only tried that a couple of times).
Rebs VS anyone, results in the rebs player having a terrible time.
Marauders VS anyone, results in the opposing player having a terrible time.
Played a lot of games of the base game. Perhaps it was the expansions where unbalance came in, but the Rebs were nuts! At least in my experience! That Teraton always ruined my Enforcers day.
IMHO DZ1 - core game, mind you - is eminently playable and a very fun game. Very little experience with expansions.
It seems like DZ2 is almost a new game, which is also fine.
@Polonius . They have a 100% KS success rate. No failed or undelivered KSs. Thousands of backers. They are willing to listen to problems with rules and actually hold alphas and betas. I'd be fine with the untrustworthy statement if it weren't for companies like Prodos and GW occupying the same space.
Don't get me wrong. I love Mantic. I have their Ogres that I use to play Kings of War. I backed the KOW kickstarters and deadzone. I think they do a great job with some aspects of community interaction.
They have very spotty quality assurance for art, and an inconsistent art direction. Their Kickstarters deliver on time, but mispacks are rampant, and people that are missing things (like me) can go months without any communication, much less receiving the product. They have customer service more in line with a part time hobby business, not a professional company. They've already announced that they're dropping the license for their first third party IP venture (Mars Attacks!), and their games tend to have very short edition cycles, coming closer to two years than I'd like.
Why should you trust mantic? The line of fantasy and scifi mini's in hard plastic.
How about sensible female scifi minis also in hard plastic?
What getting you everything in the box ala DZ1 without nickel and diming you to death just to play the game.
What about straight to retail support post KS for KOW? What about mantic basically welcoming refugees with open arms and without forcing them to restart their armies. Despite the fact that it wasn't a very professional move.
Those are reasons to like Mantic, not reasons to trust them. I think they're worth doing business with despite me not fully trusting them, but I've seen enough of Ronnie's unvarnished enthusiasm up front, and the reality after, to harbor some skepticism.
Polonius wrote: Part of me wants to comment that most people would rather have new rules that work than save money with lousy rules, but I think that root problem was that DZ1 was a rush job.
I know this is a prevailing opinion that somehow DZ1 is unplayable (contrast in 2013 when it was hot gak), but I enjoyed several dozen games of DZ1.0 with no problem... I thought the rules were ace. I wasn't doing any tournament style games, so perhaps that's where the problems were.
I never actually played through my DZ box. I painted all the factions, and never really got anybody interested in trying the game. The main complaints I saw was that when played "naively," it was actually a lot of fun. It was just really simple to figure out, or read about, the stronger combinations and tactics.
For a lot of people, the time seems even more compressed. DZ1 first wave, which included the rules, more or less shipped in December 2013, and DZ2 launched in March 2015. I'm not sure when it became clear that Infestation was really DZ 2.0, but that's still only about 15 months between players actually having the rules in hand, and finding out that they'll be replaced. Another way to look at it is the difference between getting DZ1 and actually getting DZ2, but I think it's human nature to lose interest in a rule set when you know it's going to be replaced soon, especially for more of a niche game.
@Polinus
The art thing I'd agree with right up until dungeon saga. After that I'd argue everything is internally consistent art wise but I can understand that the art direction being something you dislike, personally if thats the issue.
Being on the receiving end of a mispack I know that it sucks. That being said turn around for me has been a lot quicker than months. This was just after the KOW2 KS that I had a mispack issue and it was a retail product though.
I think editing ate the rules complaints part of your post but Action Chains, restic and a confusing rulebook were the main complaints I heard(And Rebs!). Availability was also an issue. My FLGS got the starter but nothing else making it hard to drum up interest.
I agree that it was compressed. But It was kind of critical for the lower of the three games to be right. Just having the rules committees process helped a lot I think.
Warpath and FF need DZ to be a good experience.If Warpath is getting rebooted makes sense to do DZ too.
For me I was willing to help fund the 2.0 despite buying in way way after the retail release because it just needed it. Backers of the original are getting an updated pdf aren't they? $1 DZI backers are getting them too I believe.
I think that plus the beta makes getting the rule as easy to do as possible. As far as the hardback DZ1 It was a bad product from what I've heard and that's 100% on mantic. It sucks that you got a bad product and I'd be weary because of it too.
I guess I trust a company that trusts it's fans enough to actively write/change there rules. I trust a company that has so many funded KSes It shows that they know how to deliver.
They are small enough to not suddenly disappear, but not big enough to get lazy/greedy. I trust that mantic lives or dies by the good will of the community. KS is a double edged sword after all. I think they walk the line really well. I hate the idea that some people want them to be GW2 (Not aimed any one in paticular but its what I fear people want.)
I don't expect much else than that.
Nevermind that leaving DZ as is would have worked fine for a while longer and probably be cheaper in the short term. They didn't have to fix DZ. They didn't have to ship out a fixed AC to backers. Those things make me trust mantic more than anything I like about them. Being able to say "whoops" and then try and fix it shows dedication to people who already invested.
I'm unclear as to what exactly happens in Mars Attacks case.
@Judgedog I'd agree retail is a safer bet definitely but thats not just Mantic though. DZ1 is a good game, but had issues that if this was other games would have continued for years and years.
@Compel What is the agreed OP Marauder list? FAQs fixed some of the Marauder stuff. Nearly every DZ1 game I played marauders were used, I just had more of them then even enforcers. They lost their fair share.
NobodyXY wrote: @Polinus
The art thing I'd agree with right up until dungeon saga. After that I'd argue everything is internally consistent art wise but I can understand that the art direction being something you dislike, personally if thats the issue.
The art direction has gotten substantially better, I'll agree. There are still missteps, but for example I'm not as down on the Greater Elemental as most. I don't see the need for a $40 resin model when Reaper has theirs for $8, but that's a different kettle of fish.
Being on the receiving end of a mispack I know that it sucks. That being said turn around for me has been a lot quicker than months. This was just after the KOW2 KS that I had a mispack issue and it was a retail product though.
MIne wasn't a mispack, they just "ran out" of counters and movement trays when they packed my KOW2 pledge. I've filed multiple forms, exchanged a dozen emails with Rich Armstrong, and spoke with a rep on facebook. I was told mulitiple times that "they've just come in" or "they'll be shipped right away." Of course, I still haven't received them.
I just laugh about it now. That's $50 in movement trays and the counters I supposed to get free... just gone, with apparently no recourse. I've literally done everything I can, other than just start dropping a stream of obscenities at Ronnie when I'm at adepticon. Sorry if my trust isn't there when Mantic employees have, if not lied, vigorously misrepresented the status of goods I paid for a year ago.
My 5 man enforcer team whipped the pants off my buddy's marauders. And it was my first afternoon playing, while he'd been playing off and on for a month. Enforcers are the real beatsticks.
I've got to say, the last time I played with/against marauders was after the Rebs point increase (well, 'errata') but before any nerfs I'd heard of to them. The main thing though I remember in my games anyhow, was just the basic troopers were so darned cheap.
I kinda mostly wrote off Deadzone for anything except Plague VS Enforcers.
So how long untill they decide to do DZ 3.0? Is all my current DZ 1.0 stuff now obsolete with 2.0? That would be my Acrylic tokens, Secret Weapon DZ board, all the rulebooks, the (awfully bad) hard back book I made sure I spent extra money in the KS so I could receive it, all that can go into the bin? Why should i trust Mantic with rules anymore when they rush things out the door and sort it out later with another KS?
Acrylic tokens, mostly still usable, even the plague ones if using a certain leader. V2 has much less fiddly token clutter.
SW Deadzone board definitely still usable, I have one too.
Rulebooks are the only thing really being replaced,which is fair enough considering it is a new edition released 2 years after the original. It was necessary, v1 was just too complex and non-intuitive, games required constant referencing of rules that didn't make much sense (being in cover was mostly a bad thing).
There won't be a version 3 needed for an extremely long time, if the RC has anything to do with it (and we're pretty much writing the expansion books ourselves at this point, other than background, the Infestation expansion book is 100% our work). Any time new models are released, they'll get Deadzone stats. Expansions will release a lot of extra new content, Deadzone Infestation is the first, with:
- Lots of new army lists based on special characters leading their own personal strike teams, we're going through every one of them, including all of the v1 releases.
- Linked narrative campaign.
- Environmental effects.
- Alternate rules for running a regular campaign in that particular deadzone.
Revisiting and updating Nexus Psi for V2 would be great, and there are lots of other projects we have planned for the game, there will be a stream of official content released.
@squig
It's awesome that characters will get more attention in Infestation. Any idea when backers get the PDF? I assume if its off to printing I'd imagine soonish. Will the army-lists in infestation get publicly tested too?
@Polonius that is substantially worse. You definitely deserved credit or something at least. They've got a new guy in jan. After looking at the latest update on KOW it seems like there are a couple of other people waiting on stuff too. This is probably the best time to ask before they get busy again. assuming you haven't since then. Don't give up
In ten days the warehouse will supposedly ship my missing order (I think. Automated message was vague). Of all the many assurances I have received about my missing items, this is the most recent.
I would say that mantic has a 100% completion rate on kickstarters. Wouldnt say they have a 100% success rate however unless your sole criteria is that it gets finished and most but not all people got mostbof what they ordered regardless of quality when you consider mispacks, switched materials, things being rushed out the door unfinished and of poor quality and whatever the happened with the Men at arms and most the female baselians.
According to their computer 100% of the orders got felt with and are now completed. Packing slips may have been printed for 100% of the orders, but you know the nuisance of those papers just laying around cluttering up the place.
timetowaste85 wrote: My 5 man enforcer team whipped the pants off my buddy's marauders. And it was my first afternoon playing, while he'd been playing off and on for a month. Enforcers are the real beatsticks.
Did you turtle? Zero snark question but sitting still with enforcers and firing away (such fun and tactically challenging) tended to be the answer for winning against marauders.
Alpharius wrote: How is this one 'only' at $418K entering into the last week?
I really would've thought this property as a KS would be doing much better at this point.
Maybe a Walking Dead game would lend itself better as a boardgame vs. a wargame?
Or...something?
Still paying for serious missteps at the start. People who would have taken a look at it, shrugged at the lack of solid value for a KS and walked away. If Mantic is lucky, some of those people will look again when the 48-hr warning comes up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At least someone at Mantic (I'm guessing Matt) was clued in enough to push back the closing date for the WarPath Pledge Manager from it's previous date of right about now when the new KS is winding up until the end of next month.
Yes, that and I didn't think it was fair that people hadn't seen firefight yet. The plan is to get that out to people for the weekend and both that and warpath will get structured playtesting like I ran for KoW. For WP it will be about army lists and points values, for Firefight it will be about the rules first and then the balance later.
Stew will put out more information later this week. If the plan changes (I'll want to know why!) I'll let you know.
DBX backers are getting Mantic Digital codes for a DBX and DBO 4-6 compendium. Don't expect too much, they're just the usual Mantic "compendiums" that are just all the books stapled together without even fixing the index and page numbers.
@Privateer4hire
Enforcers tactics are heavily slanted towards positioning. That's why the Assault Enforcer is Noob bait. Try using a burst laser and assault enforcer combo. Burst laser puts them down, assault enforcer cleans up. Or the burst laser can be placed up high with the Assault enforcer blocking any easy route up, great for objectives . Don't underestimate the basic enforcer either. Enforcers can hold better than anything I've played with in V1.
I haven't got to play with them much in V2. Rats and Dorfs got a day in the sun during the beta.
Honestly if your still playing V1 you're missing out though.
@Mattjgilbert Good to hear that FF will be beta'd soon.
@carlos13th Material changes are disappointing sure, but it's not a preorder. stuff changes just like any other in development product. I think mantic shows things a little earlier than most companies and so you see products evolving, couple that with KS and certain people are going to see any change as a betrayal because in their eyes they already paid for the product as described/shown. It's certainly not for everyone and It might not even be for me personally.
I consider a KS successful if it meets the following criteria:
1. Not more than a year late.
2. All efforts are made to get people their stuff, up to and including backer error, misplacks and replacing rushed materials.
2. That the company is financially capable of doing 1.
3. The product on show is barring exceptional circumstance the product delivered.
All that being said if you don't like how mantic operate during a KS go retail FLGS and Mantic can always use retail support especially if they stock anything other GW product.
lord_blackfang wrote: DBX backers are getting Mantic Digital codes for a DBX and DBO 4-6 compendium. Don't expect too much, they're just the usual Mantic "compendiums" that are just all the books stapled together without even fixing the index and page numbers.
Well, I just got a "coupon usage has been reached" error when trying to use the link in the email...
Edit: Managed to get it working, just went on the mantic digital store, added the compedium manually then applied the code from the email.
I just saw a FB post that firefight rules were live (alpha or beta or whatever). I'm in too much of a hurry to post a link but check their FB or someone else here will post it.. whatever..
scarletsquig wrote:
There won't be a version 3 needed for an extremely long time, if the RC has anything to do with it (and we're pretty much writing the expansion books ourselves at this point, other than background, the Infestation expansion book is 100% our work). Any time new models are released, they'll get Deadzone stats. Expansions will release a lot of extra new content, Deadzone Infestation is the first, with:
- Lots of new army lists based on special characters leading their own personal strike teams, we're going through every one of them, including all of the v1 releases.
- Linked narrative campaign.
- Environmental effects.
- Alternate rules for running a regular campaign in that particular deadzone.
Revisiting and updating Nexus Psi for V2 would be great, and there are lots of other projects we have planned for the game, there will be a stream of official content released.
This all sounds fantastic!
Is the update of Nexus Psi an actual planned project, or is it still a "We'd really like to," concept at the moment? (If so, I'd like to request less stringent terrain requirements for the missions. I never got around to making that ruined hospital, though I've meant to for a year and a half now!)
The rules for Mars Attacks forces will be released online soon after the game ships, right? Is that plan still on track?
Also, can you comment on how quickly the new Warpath KS GCPS will be incorporated into DZ? I'm really excited to play that faction at the small skirmish level.
MLaw wrote:I just saw a FB post that firefight rules were live (alpha or beta or whatever). I'm in too much of a hurry to post a link but check their FB or someone else here will post it.. whatever..
Cool to finally see them. Factions are Enforcers, Forge Fathers, Plague and GCPS. D66 second objective table looks interesting. Suppression is there, which was one of my favourite parts of WP. Order dice have the same faces as WP. Only had time to skim.
Did they every fix the frag/massive frag thing where plague mortars could just shut their opponent down the entire game? I played exactly one game of Deadzone after I bought the kickstarter and my opponent and I looked at each other after 30 minutes, shrugged, and put the game away. It's been on my shelf ever since.
agnosto wrote: Did they every fix the frag/massive frag thing where plague mortars could just shut their opponent down the entire game? I played exactly one game of Deadzone after I bought the kickstarter and my opponent and I looked at each other after 30 minutes, shrugged, and put the game away. It's been on my shelf ever since.
I only played a handful and the extremely rock paper scissors nature of the game had me shelving it (DZ). Not a fan of suppression either (unless it was toned WAY down). Oh well..
agnosto wrote: Did they every fix the frag/massive frag thing where plague mortars could just shut their opponent down the entire game? I played exactly one game of Deadzone after I bought the kickstarter and my opponent and I looked at each other after 30 minutes, shrugged, and put the game away. It's been on my shelf ever since.
I only played a handful and the extremely rock paper scissors nature of the game had me shelving it (DZ).
Not a fan of suppression either (unless it was toned WAY down). Oh well..
The biggest problem was scale, one massive frag covered 1/4 to 1/3 of the board it seemed like, 9 squares, right? "Oh gee, due to terrain, you had to deploy fairly close together and now you'll never move again, yay!"
People were griping about it on the writer's website and he was basically telling everyone he wasn't going to fix it, there was nothing wrong, and they were all stupid. At that point I just thought that well, that kills that game.
agnosto wrote: Did they every fix the frag/massive frag thing where plague mortars could just shut their opponent down the entire game? I played exactly one game of Deadzone after I bought the kickstarter and my opponent and I looked at each other after 30 minutes, shrugged, and put the game away. It's been on my shelf ever since.
I only played a handful and the extremely rock paper scissors nature of the game had me shelving it (DZ).
Not a fan of suppression either (unless it was toned WAY down). Oh well..
The biggest problem was scale, one massive frag covered 1/4 to 1/3 of the board it seemed like, 9 squares, right? "Oh gee, due to terrain, you had to deploy fairly close together and now you'll never move again, yay!"
People were griping about it on the writer's website and he was basically telling everyone he wasn't going to fix it, there was nothing wrong, and they were all stupid. At that point I just thought that well, that kills that game.
Yeah that's the other thing that has pushed me away from DZ.. any time I mentioned stuff I wasn't keen on to the community I got a pretty similar response to what you just described. The things I didn't like were all my fault or I just need to play a few dozen more matches or whatever.
Tyr13 wrote: The suppression comment was about Warpath Firefight, not Deadzone. Just to clear that up.
Well.. I have played DZ, I have not played Firefight. In Deadzone, I hated suppression. I'm not entirely sure I will feel differently about it because the name of the game is different..
A lot of people dislike suppression or pinning in their games. I'm not a fan of "run through bullets with a sword" games anymore, personally.
It's not that I don't think a suppression mechanic isn't usable.. and me disliking suppression doesn't mean I'm a fan of what you're describing.. Mantic's implementation of suppression though is not how I'd prefer to spend my free time. It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary. I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc.. it's always a back and forth. Not, whoever lucks out on going first or lining up the shot first renders the other side helpless. It's more like tug of war. It creates a one-sided scenario and the basic concept of risk vs reward goes out the window because the side getting pounded on has no play.
I've had this discussion about Mantic's suppression here and in their community. This is usually how it starts. A bit of "well I like it" followed by some condescending remark about being a simpleton gamer.. so, I think I'll just move along
Deadzone v2 is completely different, recommend having a look at the new rules, very different game which I've had an active role in helping to develop.
A lot of people dislike suppression or pinning in their games. I'm not a fan of "run through bullets with a sword" games anymore, personally.
I get that and agree with it but why design a game where you can literally shut large sections of the board down through rules like frag and massive frag?
Get shot, nobody dies but we're all suppressed.
Use activation to stand a couple of people up.
Get shot, everybody goes back down.
Rinse. repeat.
I hated that, it was boring. At least make a mobile firefight possible.
Bolt Action uses cumulative pinning, and aside from a few aspects (transports in particular) it works really well in simulating the effect of fire from multiple angles or over time, the difference between elite and green troops, and the importance of officers.
scarletsquig wrote: Deadzone v2 is completely different, recommend having a look at the new rules, very different game which I've had an active role in helping to develop.
That's cool. I haven't looked but unless there's a free version though, that's not happening. I backed the creation of V1 and am not throwing more money down that pit..
In fairness, I am giving the beta for firefight a look.
agnosto wrote: Did they every fix the frag/massive frag thing where plague mortars could just shut their opponent down the entire game? I played exactly one game of Deadzone after I bought the kickstarter and my opponent and I looked at each other after 30 minutes, shrugged, and put the game away. It's been on my shelf ever since.
scarletsquig wrote: Deadzone v2 is completely different, recommend having a look at the new rules, very different game which I've had an active role in helping to develop.
That's cool. I haven't looked but unless there's a free version though, that's not happening. I backed the creation of V1 and am not throwing more money down that pit..
In fairness, I am giving the beta for firefight a look.
If you were a backer of the first Kickstarter, Mantic has stated that you will get a free PDF of the full hardback V2 rules on release.
Welp thats all fixed any way. Mortar has Indirect(4) Instead.
which you can read about in the rules as the formatting goes berserk when I try and copy paste it out.
Didn't V1 have slow reload or whatever? That meant you couldn't fire it every turn I thought.
Warpath and Firefight suppression is a different thing completely though.
@MLaw
The Betas last version is probably the best demo you'd get. It plus the new stat lines and weapon master lists spread sheet are on the mantic forum, as opposed to Mantic Digital like the FF stuff.
I hope to see some battle reports and after action reports though.
The Firefight beta has turned out a lot better than the sneak preview, at least. Quite a lot to like about it, we just need to make it clear to them they have to keep the height based LoS, and never go back to awful TLoS ever again.
Also, I like that the basic stat lines and squad numbers stay the same between games, even if points and weapon options currently seem to differ slightly. A vanilla Enforcer squad having one set of stats for Warpath, and another for Firefight, would have been really tedious and annoying.
Oh, and it provides some additional perspective: by the numbers they're aiming for, a $75 battlegroup - especially ones heavy on plastic multikits - should constitute all you'll ever need for a Firefight army, excepting heavy vehicles or additional light ones. Pretty solid deal and affordable game, whether you use Mantic minis or go elsehwhere (f.ex Dreamforge alts for Enforcers or GCPS)
scarletsquig wrote: Deadzone v2 is completely different, recommend having a look at the new rules, very different game which I've had an active role in helping to develop.
That's cool. I haven't looked but unless there's a free version though, that's not happening. I backed the creation of V1 and am not throwing more money down that pit..
In fairness, I am giving the beta for firefight a look.
If you were a backer of the first Kickstarter, Mantic has stated that you will get a free PDF of the full hardback V2 rules on release.
Mantic says a lot of things..
NobodyXY - Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that. Pretty busy month but I'll try to get it read over in time for a battle rep
pancakeonions wrote: does the Corp faction include rules for Orx? Thats what i got a ton of...
Mass battle rules yes, Firefight no but firefight is early in development and only has 4 army lists so far so it's likely that the Marauders will go back in later.
I'm finding I'm more interested in the Firefight rules based on a very quick scan of them this morning.
Sorry that I'm put of the loop on this one, but when was it supposed to ship and they still only have 4 army rules in the rough draft version? I'm only doing $1 pledges on Mantic anymore (when they allow it ), and even then they have to be showing a lot more before I back anything further. I appreciate the rules committee guys and all the work they have done, but what Mantic is putting out right now is not worth it to me anymore to even consider. They need to have more than an idea written on a napkin before the next kickstarter, and I'm not talking about an idea to rip off the next GW game.
it's not due till September so plenty of time (maybe a bit dependant of where they are printing and shipping times)
To be fair since this is still just testing doing too many lists would be a waste of time, the need the mechanics nailed down first, and 4 is enough let a decent number of players provide feedback
@MLaw I hear you. I can't even sit down long enough to absorb FF.
@Theophony What offerings are subpar? DZI and WP atleast seemed well thought out. Atleast post split between WP and FF.
Not sure what idea their ripping off of GWs. You mean mass/company/skirmish level sci-fi gaming? They do like one of those currently. Not sure what you're mad about what exactly? I gotta admit I'm curious. Just Mantic existing?
I wish they'd use a hard Alpha/Beta Definition.
Alpha= Features, Beta = Content. Would make things clearer.
The PM is open for another month and it's not shipping until September, there isn't actually anything to overreact to, or get angry or upset about right now.
It won't be shipping in September, that's for sure. Maybe "Wave 1" will "start" shipping in September, but this one's going to drag out painfully. Besides, you're about as over-positive, happy and completely uncritical about anything and everything that Mantic do as anyone in the world can possibly be (along with Mikes), so I think people are still going to discuss the kickstarter without remembering to be smiles and rainbows about everything that Mantic say or do. Especially when they're basically relying on unpaid volunteers for so much of their rules writing and proofreading at this point.
NobodyXY wrote: @MLaw I hear you. I can't even sit down long enough to absorb FF.
@Theophony What offerings are subpar? DZI and WP atleast seemed well thought out. Atleast post split between WP and FF.
Not sure what idea their ripping off of GWs. You mean mass/company/skirmish level sci-fi gaming? They do like one of those currently. Not sure what you're mad about what exactly? I gotta admit I'm curious. Just Mantic existing?
I wish they'd use a hard Alpha/Beta Definition.
Alpha= Features, Beta = Content. Would make things clearer.
Sub Par offerings= Sculpts that don't live up to the designs given to us during kickstarters (trolls ) Dungeon Saga typos and racial goofs, Replacement of rules at such a fast pace (Deadzone). Yes I know GW does the same thing, but I'm not defending GW. Ripping off GW, Uncharted Empire (can't blaime them really for doing it since it was a market thats available), KOW=Warhammer, Warpath+40K, Deadzone= Necromunda, they have been bandying about a not Mordheim and Dungeon Saga= Hero Quest. All we Need now is a NOT-Warmaster and a NOT-Epic. Mantic had a chance of at least breaking out with expanding the Mars Attacks to have different nations of the world and do a contemporary battles that GW hasn't done, or a contemporary alien invasion game. We have ex-GW employees who still hang out and game with current GW employees so I get that there would be cross over, but it's like GWlite. I'm upset with the lost potential that Mantic has squandered, and the fact that they have binned Mars Attacks already and have killed my interest in TWD game.
Theres a difference between well thought out and having an actual skeleton of a system together. Have they decided on seperate bases or is it still multibased?
I'm sorry you don't like some of mantics sculpts. I never said if GW does it it's okay. Deadzone needed it. Nearly everyone agrees there and the rules are better for it.
GW lite would be bad. Its more like GW rewinding the clock 15 years when they had the freedom to try things but with the added bonus of everything thing they do being done under a microscope meaning that they can't seperate themselves from there customers and lose touch with what their customers need.
Well I mean its been a crazy year and half for GW but you know what I mean. I saw an ad for 60p SM sprue the other day while looking for the pics of the old leg badges and campaign badges, and thought of Mantics $20 for 20 deal. They have similarities but most of those relate more to Past GW than current GW in my opinion.
Necromunda was stand alone. It wasn't an avenue to build up to larger battles. It was this cool little stop on GW's journey. Deadzone is a well supported product. It also happens to be integrated in their main offer.
Meaning that the current Forge Father Deadzone starter is just about 300-400 points in Firefight. All usable units in the box. Or a half unit each in Warpath. That seems like a well thought out product line to me.
You wanted mantic to do Bolt-action lite with aliens? BOW did a similar thing. but instead of TWD? I mean sure it'd be cool to do alien invasions but others already had products like that out. No one was doing a TWD style game, at a board game hybrid level.
The whole Scifi side of mantics offering has more modern leanings. Warpath= 40k Is factually wrong. On my first turn of Warpath what I guessed solidified. It's just got a completely different feel crunch and fluff wise. Multi-basing would work better in WP than single basing. The split has cemented the basing differences more. To be honest I can't comment on Firefight in any meaningful way yet.
There's also a difference between a finished retail product and a an alpha ruleset. Mantic nearly always has to show WIP rules. Stuff will change.
Azazelx wrote: Besides, you're about as over-positive, happy and completely uncritical about anything and everything that Mantic do as anyone in the world can possibly be (along with Mikes), so I think people are still going to discuss the kickstarter without remembering to be smiles and rainbows about everything that Mantic say or do.
I'm actually not, I just seem that way in comparison here, much like a half flat torch would seem like the sun in an underground cave at midnight.
Azazelx wrote: you're about as over-positive, happy and completely uncritical about anything and everything that Mantic do as anyone in the world can possibly be (along with Mikes),
If it wouldn't have been deleted I would have suggested where you shove your allusion sideways. I'm not uncritical, you're just ignoring when I haven't been for... well, actually I don't know why. But eitheway I'll thank you to leave me out of any grievance you have with anyone else.
Yeah, I really hope they stick with height-based LOS. The way that TLOS treats figures as literal statues is really stupid. People claim TLOS is immersive, but what's immersive about a figure in a crouching pose apparently sliding around the battlefield on his knees? Different figure poses having actual gameplay effects is insane.
There's nothing immersive about it unless you're imagine that it's literally your immobile plastic figures fighting a battle rather than the fictional warriors they represent.
And that's without going into the can of worms that is modelling for advantage.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I really hope they stick with height-based LOS. The way that TLOS treats figures as literal statues is really stupid. People claim TLOS is immersive, but what's immersive about a figure in a crouching pose apparently sliding around the battlefield on his knees? Different figure poses having actual gameplay effects is insane.
Agreed entirely, TLOS was the reason I got out of 40k in 5th.
Firefight uses the same or similar system to KOW with a height chart.
Deadzone does use TLOS, I couldn't really see another way of doing it. A board with enough terrain to play deadzone is too dense and complex for the height chart to work well. It'd slow things down. It doesn't matter really though, I can't think of any models that could be easily modelled for advantage.
To be honest playing Marauders during V1 the Rainmaker is a double edged sword. While a clear shot is harder to get its he's huge. He's basically sniper bait or was versus Enforcers. There are very few battlezone tiles that he can't be seen through. unless your really careful.
your right in that it is sort of an advantage, but In my opinion it's more of a hindrance.
I haven't played marauders in V2 yet as there soaking in super clean.
MLaw wrote: It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary.
That's real life suppression.
MLaw wrote: I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc..
That's not suppression at all.
Well, tabletop wargames aren't a real firefight either. Since a tabletop wargame IS entertainment which my examples are, then they are more valid than yours and my point is proven and correct.
MLaw wrote: It utterly paralyzes a unit. It's total binary.
That's real life suppression.
MLaw wrote: I've thankfully never been in an actual firefight with guns, but in paintball, video games, movies, etc..
That's not suppression at all.
Well, tabletop wargames aren't a real firefight either. Since a tabletop wargame IS entertainment which my examples are, then they are more valid than yours and my point is proven and correct.
Hmm, your point was that you would prefer unrealistic or no suppression, which is entertaining to you (paint ball, video games, action movies), and I prefer a suppression mechanic that emulates reality, which is entertaining to me (I guess why I love Bolt Action and GoA so much)
@judgedoug I see your point but as far as game terms I think the DZ V1 suppression makes less sense than the FF suppression. I assume that if you were pinned like that long enough you'd try to pull back and reposition. In V1 you could be put down 2 aggression levels, meaning that a units activations got used up with out the unit getting to pull back.
Its more realistic for sure as a single unit/person would hunker down and wait for the right moment to reposition or for covering fire/smoke etc. but for DZ you've got monsters running around munching on folks. Close quarters combat of that level isn't something that you could model on Real life. For me the change to suppression is unfortunate for realism but as a balancing change it is needed for setting and for fun.
The DZ V2v1.5 Firing for effect and Pinned rules for those that haven't had a look. Not aimed at anyone just a bit of intel.
Spoiler:
Firing for Effect
Models using a weapon with the Rapid Fire ability may choose to Fire for Effect, laying down suppressive fire in an attempt to pin down their opponents. The active model must declare whether they are Firing for Effect before rolling any dice. Firing for Effect uses all of the same modifiers as a standard Shoot action, and counts as a shoot action.
Pinned
A model that starts its activation Pinned(lying down_ must choose Stand Up as its first action.
A pinned model that is attacked in a Fight action wil Stand Up automatically and without counting it as an action. Their opponent gains the +1 for fighting a pinned enemy only during that first fight.
Stand up(short)
A pinned model must choose Stand Up as its first action of its turn, if it acts at all. It owner positions the model standing up, anywhere in the same cube.
Typed up as the formatting goes crazy when I try and copy/paste it.
I like the truck design, but I am wondering if it will be scaled such that a standard GCPS trooper model could feasibly fit inside it, or if it we'll see a repeat of the Mantic Walkers, which are supposed to contain troopers but look like only a Zee would fit in them.
I don't need three, and don't know if the individual price + shipping is really a good deal, so I'm not compelled to roll the dice on possible scale issues.
They've requested a scale render so hopefully that will turn up before end of March
Creator Mantic Games 34 minutes ago
@Dave Already requested, but each of these images takes a long time to render out .
also on extra orders and shipping
I have checked every avenue I can and the short answer is we can't correct the issue now.
The longer answer is that we'd have to take the PM down and mess with some of the inner workings to get it fixed, so we'd have to close the PM now and it wouldn't re-open in time to have orders fulfilled.
Refunds will be processed after the Pledge Manager has closed. We will need both order numbers for it to work.
Some of the vehicles were the main reason I was so torn on whether or not to back. I personally think the Enforcer Dropship turned out alright and that Mule looks sweet. The others.. eh.. I've not been swayed. I would buy a Mule or two for terrain or a diorama if nothing else. Those are pretty nice.
judgedoug wrote: Hmm, your point was that you would prefer unrealistic or no suppression, which is entertaining to you (paint ball, video games, action movies), and I prefer a suppression mechanic that emulates reality, which is entertaining to me (I guess why I love Bolt Action and GoA so much)
But Bolt Action's pinning mechanic isn't binary: more suppression makes orders less likely, but an Elite unit with one pin is very likely to follow orders, while a conscript unit shot by three different squads will struggle to pass an order check.
NobodyXY wrote: @judgedoug I see your point but as far as game terms I think the DZ V1 suppression makes less sense than the FF suppression. I assume that if you were pinned like that long enough you'd try to pull back and reposition. In V1 you could be put down 2 aggression levels, meaning that a units activations got used up with out the unit getting to pull back.
Its more realistic for sure as a single unit/person would hunker down and wait for the right moment to reposition or for covering fire/smoke etc. but for DZ you've got monsters running around munching on folks. Close quarters combat of that level isn't something that you could model on Real life. For me the change to suppression is unfortunate for realism but as a balancing change it is needed for setting and for fun.
The DZ V2v1.5 Firing for effect and Pinned rules for those that haven't had a look. Not aimed at anyone just a bit of intel.
Spoiler:
Firing for Effect
Models using a weapon with the Rapid Fire ability may choose to Fire for Effect, laying down suppressive fire in an attempt to pin down their opponents. The active model must declare whether they are Firing for Effect before rolling any dice. Firing for Effect uses all of the same modifiers as a standard Shoot action, and counts as a shoot action.
Pinned
A model that starts its activation Pinned(lying down_ must choose Stand Up as its first action.
A pinned model that is attacked in a Fight action wil Stand Up automatically and without counting it as an action. Their opponent gains the +1 for fighting a pinned enemy only during that first fight.
Stand up(short)
A pinned model must choose Stand Up as its first action of its turn, if it acts at all. It owner positions the model standing up, anywhere in the same cube.
Typed up as the formatting goes crazy when I try and copy/paste it.
I will never understand why they pick all these weird names for suppressive fire, like "blaze away" or "fire for effect", instead of just calling it... suppressive fire. It's even there in the text!
I feel like such a dork for this, but what are the best games to play that don't have a rage quit and watch TV suppression mechanic? I know my group of friends and family, and any mechanic that results in "roll a die to see if you even get to attempt to move next turn" is pretty much grounds for assault in their eyes.
For the record, my most patient gamer friend is my brother...who moved 500 miles away. My next most patient is father who got through almost two games of KoW (thanks for the lists, Azazel!) before declaring it was too complicated for him to follow and that "Dungeons and Dragons" (What he calls FFG's Descent) is about as complex a game as he can handle.
I'm betting (well, buying) Mars Attacks will work when the boy is old enough, but jeez. Simulating real soldiers' experiences in real combat? How many turns do we spend getting STD tests and hiring divorce lawyers?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I feel like such a dork for this, but what are the best games to play that don't have a rage quit and watch TV suppression mechanic? I know my group of friends and family, and any mechanic that results in "roll a die to see if you even get to attempt to move next turn" is pretty much grounds for assault in their eyes.
For the record, my most patient gamer friend is my brother...who moved 500 miles away. My next most patient is father who got through almost two games of KoW (thanks for the lists, Azazel!) before declaring it was too complicated for him to follow and that "Dungeons and Dragons" (What he calls FFG's Descent) is about as complex a game as he can handle.
I'm betting (well, buying) Mars Attacks will work when the boy is old enough, but jeez. Simulating real soldiers' experiences in real combat? How many turns do we spend getting STD tests and hiring divorce lawyers?
ROFL I've been in and around the military almost my whole life and that's as real as it gets brother..
Gotta test to see if you're hung over before the fight too... and if you forgot to do Combat Gaks then you're in for some brown when the shooting starts.
Mars Attacks had my boys amused quite a while. I have no idea what the mechanics are like just that they disappeared with the box on Christmas and they played several times. Try VOID 1.1. The rules are free on Scotia Grendel's site or you can order the books if you prefer. The sculpts are a bit dated but still as good or better than a lot of ranges and the prices are reasonable.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
My non-sarcastic guess is one.
I think it's one of those things where if you had non-based, seated guys.. you could probably get a really respectable amount back there. Since that's not how it works though.. I think one is a good bet.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I need to see how many guys I can jam in the back of that truck.
Get on it Mantic! You know that's what everyone is wondering!
My non-sarcastic guess is one.
I think it's one of those things where if you had non-based, seated guys.. you could probably get a really respectable amount back there. Since that's not how it works though.. I think one is a good bet.
Yep, if you had models cast up sitting, you'd probably get 4 (2x2 sitting side by side). Based, probably one. Wasn't there a pic/sketch of this vehicle at one point during the KS that showed it was actually a fair bit smaller than everyone expected. Like one driver and no internal passenger sized?
Yeah, bases kind of mess with transport capacity. It's kind of hard to fit into the back of a truck when everyone is wearing giant frisbees on their ankles.
Compel wrote: I'd be quite happy if it was about 4 guys comfortably sitting, to be honest. - Seems a sensible size to me.
Having ridden in several types of tracked and wheeled military vehicles (and flown in rotary and fixed wing aircraft), I can assure you, 'comfortably sitting' really isn't a factor when you have all your gear. Being able to cram in 4 geared up troopers would be fine. If that cab is a one person cab I'm not sure how well that works.
I'm not sure where that sketch (render?) with scale is/was posted, nor if the scale has remained the same to the point we're at now. For some reason I'm thinking it went (in our minds, at least) from SUV/Hummer sized to closer to large quad bike/John Deere sized.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, bases kind of mess with transport capacity. It's kind of hard to fit into the back of a truck when everyone is wearing giant frisbees on their ankles.
I always have thought of the bases as 5' wide garbage can lids...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I feel like such a dork for this, but what are the best games to play that don't have a rage quit and watch TV suppression mechanic? I know my group of friends and family, and any mechanic that results in "roll a die to see if you even get to attempt to move next turn" is pretty much grounds for assault in their eyes.
For the record, my most patient gamer friend is my brother...who moved 500 miles away. My next most patient is father who got through almost two games of KoW (thanks for the lists, Azazel!) before declaring it was too complicated for him to follow and that "Dungeons and Dragons" (What he calls FFG's Descent) is about as complex a game as he can handle.
I'm betting (well, buying) Mars Attacks will work when the boy is old enough, but jeez. Simulating real soldiers' experiences in real combat? How many turns do we spend getting STD tests and hiring divorce lawyers?
ROFL I've been in and around the military almost my whole life and that's as real as it gets brother..
Gotta test to see if you're hung over before the fight too... and if you forgot to do Combat Gaks then you're in for some brown when the shooting starts.
Mars Attacks had my boys amused quite a while. I have no idea what the mechanics are like just that they disappeared with the box on Christmas and they played several times. Try VOID 1.1. The rules are free on Scotia Grendel's site or you can order the books if you prefer. The sculpts are a bit dated but still as good or better than a lot of ranges and the prices are reasonable.
Thanks for the recommendation! I actually have that rule book lying around. I've only opened it for the fluff so far. Hope I can get away with a lot of counts as.
Anyone know if Mantic is planning to resin the Mars Attacks rules? It might be nice not to let that ruleset Troop like a Starship if you get me.
Andrew Gribben to MANTIC MADNESS
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I head up Geiger the company behind Mantic Digital and the technology that powers the Pledgemanager (please don't hurt me). We've opened up a new support channel over Slack and thought you guys might be interested. You can sign up at the link below.
Finally getting ready to do the pledge manager, so lemme get some opinions. I'm at the $115 level. I already have a ton of plastic enforcers from Deadzone and the new ones from Deadzone Infestation so I don't need more Enforcers, but I do want the vehicles.
Seems like the best bet for me would be to get the Interceptor battle group with my pledge especially with the resin add on bits to make that one special type?
I want to get a few GCPS things to mess around with, so add the GCPS Hornet freebie?
Then I'm thinking, for paid add-ons, one Mule, and then one of each of the KS exclusive Enforcer, GCPS person, and the Blaine exclusive. Then one each of the new metal Enforcer anti-tank and heavy support squads, and maybe some plastic GCPS dudes. Other than some fancy Enforcer dice, that should about cover me for "add unreleased stuff to my existing Enforcer army, and dabble in the GCPS a little bit" angle that I'm going for, right?
Andrew Gribben to MANTIC MADNESS
.
I head up Geiger the company behind Mantic Digital and the technology that powers the Pledgemanager (please don't hurt me). We've opened up a new support channel over Slack and thought you guys might be interested. You can sign up at the link below.
Thank you to everyone who participated in the our public play-testing. Your feedback was invaluable and we continued to make changes based on it right up until the last minute, Which is why I am now able to announce that…
The Deadzone Rulebook has gone to print!
After much of proof reading (and some more double checking on top of that), we have sent the files off to the printers to be turned into a stunning new hardback book. This new rule book will include full rules for playing games of Deadzone, which have been clarified, streamlined and re-balanced, all with your help!
There will be full force lists for each faction, special rules and equipment to customise your strike teams with, scenarios and a revamped campaign section. This is almost the last step in our preparations for dispatch. We’re now just waiting on the final pieces of stock to arrive at the warehouse. We’ve double and triple checked out picking sheets and stock levels and have done some testing, too. We will begin sending pledges out to backers in late March.
On top of that, we've finished painting on some of the new models for them to be used in the book - take a look!
Now that the rulebook has gone to print and we’d thought you like to see some pages from it, too.
I like these sculpts, I think the Ogre could be rescued with a headswap. I still think that Mantic need better painted (or perhaps better photography? They just look a bit washed out) examples to show of their miniatures though.
I like these sculpts, I think the Ogre could be rescued with a headswap. I still think that Mantic need better painted (or perhaps better photography? They just look a bit washed out) examples to show of their miniatures though.
Its okay, I pearsonally helped to proofread the entire book and while it had lost of mistakes to start with, we fixed them all.
Seriously though, page XXX and similar references/ placeholder images are the only things out of the RC's hands when it comes to proof-reading, it should be a very solid book, much better than v1.
Mantic really likes the bright and colourful on their Sci-fi stuff. The ogre is really cool. I doubt that the head will be hard to get off. Even if it's set up like the DZ1 stuff it should be easy to change. I like the hood though myself though. I don't like the blue on the shock trooper personally. The lancer is perfect though.
I really like that Terraton. I kind of wish I had ordered him. I didn't think I would like that Sphyr either, but he also looks really good. I'm sure these are all resin protoypes and the production pieces won't be quite so nice looking, but so far, these all look really good. I don't think I pledged for any of these, but now I'm wishing I had, so good job on making me want these, Mantic.
On a whim, I went over to Mantic's site to check if some of the Deadzone items I hadn't seen at retail were listed on their site. Apparently Mantic has removed all of the Deadzone and Warpath stuff from their web shop. I understand removing Deadzone V1, but why remove the miniature packs?
You're talking about all those metal figures right? The rebs swordmaster, the plague enforcer, the dead body tokens, the enforcer with special weapon...?
I don't think those ever saw the light of day outside of the pledge manager.
@Barzam All the DZ1 stuff comes with cards. I imagine a repackaging is happening to all that stuff. Sucks as I wanted some of the Dorf Militia(Steel Warrior V1). I wanted 10.
I wonder why the Marauder is not the leader version. seems like be more interesting to see painted.
<3 Teraton Shock Trooper and Sphyr Lancer. If they are sold in any medium but metal, I'll get them...unless they have KDM level prices.
I would love to see a plastic rebel kit that included the parts to make, say, one Teraton, one Sphyr, one 'happy feet', and some other alien with separate (and thus poseable) arms and heads, with maybe a second head or weapon choice each. One thing Mantic does really well is give us a variety of interesting aliens. The DBX boxes are a gold mine for armored aliens to convert, but HIPS would make them much more attractive.
skarsol wrote: There are both proofreading errors and gameplay issues shown on the rulebook images in the update. Good job!
Specifically?
Rolling Command - 2) Re-Roll: Which player has Initiative? Looking for a boldfaced Initiative I see it's the person taking their Turn, but Rolling Command happens before Turns do. (Reading on, we discover how to resolve this on turns 2+, but you have to hunt for it. I assume a die roll will resolve it turn 1, but that's not specified here.)
When using the format "Word: Description" the Description sometimes starts with a capital, sometimes doesn't.
Rolling Command column 2: "each die is discarded when used." Although in common speak, 'dice' is becoming singular, professional writing probably should still use die. Edit: They use "die" properly in other locations, so they forfeit the "common speak" excuse!
Similarly, the Dice Symbol should be Die symbol, but that's arguable since it's a proper noun and they can call it whatever they want.
Throughout, the oxford comma is sometimes used, sometimes not.
Symbol Callout - Dice Symbol: Last sentence should be "You may spend any number of Dice Symbol results..." (no s on Symbol)
That's on the first image.
Edit: Since it jumped out at me, on the 2nd image: "so in a 150 point games" is wrong.
You first point isn't really clear but I assume your asking about initiative?
Check page 14 on the beta 1.5 doc. Its under "Setting up the Game" which comes before "Playing the Game".
Remember that the rules are written by a single person than expanded,cleaned and proofread by a committee from all over the world. I guess it could be mildly annoying for clarity.
but context should eliminate any clarity issues regarding dice.
This input could have been helpful during the well publicized beta, why not bring up these issues then?
Think Mantic might have used an older pdf to take those sample pages from, those are definitely things that got cleaned up in our proofreading pass, we sorted out nearly around 160 errors in total.
You first point isn't really clear but I assume your asking about initiative?
Check page 14 on the beta 1.5 doc. Its under "Setting up the Game" which comes before "Playing the Game".
Remember that the rules are written by a single person than expanded,cleaned and proofread by a committee from all over the world. I guess it could be mildly annoying for clarity.
but context should eliminate any clarity issues regarding dice.
This input could have been helpful during the well publicized beta, why not bring up these issues then?
Because I don't expect them to give me models for free. Reliance on crowdsourced editing is why reading modern rulebooks tends to make me cry. (Although it's not specific to them, GW still lets typos through as well (and we wont talk about their ambiguous phrasing), but I suspect there is a shortage of good editors in the business now, likely because noone wants to pay them. )
And yeah, I was just going off the information presented in that one image. It's the basic "How to play" section but it relies on information in a different location (I assume page 14) and doesn't tell you where.
scarletsquig wrote: Think Mantic might have used an older pdf to take those sample pages from, those are definitely things that got cleaned up in our proofreading pass, we sorted out nearly around 160 errors in total.
Why are my "Adventurers Companion" senses tingling?
scarletsquig wrote: Think Mantic might have used an older pdf to take those sample pages from, those are definitely things that got cleaned up in our proofreading pass, we sorted out nearly around 160 errors in total.
Crowd sourced worked well for KOW and having played this version of DZI It works well here too.
The "Setting Up" section is right before the "Playing the Game" section. It would be a long book if it continually referenced every prior page on the current page.
The whole first half of the book, minus fluff is the basic section. The advanced rules come after missions.
Times are tough all a round and I do feel for people in the industry struggling for work. Aren't editors like 50-100k american a year though? That would have been a significant portion of the kickstarter funds if that's right. I would have been very unhappy if they spent 15-30% of the money on that, and I'm assuming that would hold true for a lot of people.
Crowd sourcing allows for products that couldn't exist in the same form otherwise. Small spelling and grammatical errors are a small price to pay for a better refined rule-set. EDIT: looks like this might not matter anyway.
EDIT:
@Squig
Are there any specific instances of a fixed error on any of the pages shown that you know for sure has been fixed?
Edit: As for KOW, I appreciate that the rules are free, and thus I hold them to a lower standard, but still: "to make yours forces" on page 1? And really, they're only free in order to get you to hopefully buy models from Mantic, so it behooves them to have them be the best they can be.
scarletsquig wrote: Think Mantic might have used an older pdf to take those sample pages from, those are definitely things that got cleaned up in our proofreading pass, we sorted out nearly around 160 errors in total.
Right, but which one did they send to the printers?
Edit: As for KOW, I appreciate that the rules are free, and thus I hold them to a lower standard, but still: "to make yours forces" on page 1? And really, they're only free in order to get you to hopefully buy models from Mantic, so it behooves them to have them be the best they can be.
There is a free pdf version.. there is also an expensive deluxe edition which presumably has the same errors..
The Kings of War rules are simply excellent from what I've seen so far. Both the PDF and hard copy are extremely enjoyable to use. I think Mantic can be knocked for quite a few things (art direction, response time) but since the rule committee's involvement, the rules aren't one of them!
Grammar catches are fair, of course... but just wanted to note that regarding the quality of those books (both the main KoW rules and Uncharted Empires).
That's the thing, running into grammer issues so early/often makes me lose interest in pursuing the rules further. But I'm likely more persnickety about that than most. ;P
skarsol wrote: That's the thing, running into grammer issues so early/often makes me lose interest in pursuing the rules further. But I'm likely more persnickety about that than most. ;P
The figures look good, actually, but to echo what others have said there's something about the studio paint job that doesn't quite work. I thought the Ogre terminator was supposed to be based on the Dreadball Ogre, though? It looks very different. I like it though. I've got two coming for some reason
I seem to remember something about Mantic saying they were going to use dice rather than die for the singular. Something about not wanting to confuse matters in a game where people die alot? If so then in proofreading/editing terms presumably it isn't a bug, it's a feature (to horribly misuse a phrase)
I thought I remembered the Ogre Terminator was a fan design from someone who bought one of the super expensive pledges, and the art/renders proved so popular they let everyone buy it, but I don't see any of those pledge levels
Huh I thought that was a concept a fan had made and sent to mantic. I dunno though I might have been asleep for it.
@Taaloc
It might have something to do with fantasy stuff generally following that palette or whatever. I see the appeal but... I don't really hate it, same with the Veermyn, a more sci-fi paint job really would change the the tone.
The marauder seems extra bright to me. The ogre and the Lancer seems to be closer in line with what I want in Sci-fi paint jobs.
I hope we get the same kind of support as KOW has gotten with the new minis now and then.
NTRabbit wrote: I thought I remembered the Ogre Terminator was a fan design from someone who bought one of the super expensive pledges, and the art/renders proved so popular they let everyone buy it, but I don't see any of those pledge levels
As I remember it, it wasn´t an official pledge level, rather it was a individual arrangement between Mantic and a fan with big pockets
They used the silhouette of the Dreadball Ogre Grak as a place holder to give an idea of size as there was no design at that time the design was to be based off the look of Grak and Buzzcut the Dreadball Spogres.
I hope the head is separate as I planned to swap in a spare Grak head.
We’ve been contacted in the private messages about doing a new backer-created figure. Our backer has chosen to create a figure based on Grak and Buzzcut from our DreadBall range, armed with a bladed mini-gun.
Grak, from DreadBall.
Our backer requested that this Ogre Terminator be a special unit choice that can be hired by multiple factions - in fact, every faction except the Plague can choose him if they want the extra support this brute will bring.
He has suggested that backers might like the opportunity to add it on before the campaign closes, and so we wanted to ask you if you'd like that? As it was only confirmed today we've not been able to get any concept art together for this miniature and we're not going to be able to include it free in any pledge levels, so we wanted to check first. Let us know in the comments what you think.
Taaloc wrote: I seem to remember something about Mantic saying they were going to use dice rather than die for the singular. Something about not wanting to confuse matters in a game where people die alot? If so then in proofreading/editing terms presumably it isn't a bug, it's a feature (to horribly misuse a phrase)
That's fine, but then the places where they *do* use die become the error that needs to be fixed.
Edit: Of note, they haven't responded for a full business day, so I have no great hopes of this just being a minor mistake.
Is it wrong of me to want the Rules Committee to go back over Dungeon Saga?
I like what they did with Kings of War, Deadzone looks like it will follow similarly...
Seems like having them tackle Dungeon Saga (the Adventurer's Companion specifically) would probably cool a lot of jets out there that are unhappy with the way the book turned out.
Speaking for myself, at this point the Mantic has turned me off of all their stuff minus KOW. That's due to the rules committee and not having to field Mantic models. Mantic needs more levels of checking and double checking and rechecking. That's one spot where GW still has an edge, the other notable one being customer service.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Is it wrong of me to want the Rules Committee to go back over Dungeon Saga?
I like what they did with Kings of War, Deadzone looks like it will follow similarly...
Seems like having them tackle Dungeon Saga (the Adventurer's Companion specifically) would probably cool a lot of jets out there that are unhappy with the way the book turned out.
Give it 6-8-15 months for Mantic to decide to re-release it with a new KS campaign... Then the RC can edit it and fix Jake's phoned-in rules in their volunteer/unpaid capacity.
That's what I was thinking. A year or so from now, after most of the original KS stuff has seen retail release, I can totally picture them doing a new standalone box set.
Hopefully if we end up seeing that Project Pandora remake that's been talked about in wishful tones throughout the last few campaigns they've ran, the Rules Committee will be there in full force to make sure things are airtight upon release.
It seems extremely unwise to rely on the RC in such a great capacity... There's a reason people get a salary for their work, it's because you can hold them accountable and you can always count on them being there. Having community-run play testing is fine but letting them basically re-write your rules seems unprofessional and subject to any number of potential problems. Of course I'm not privy to what goes on and am simply going off what I've read on dakka, so correct me if I'm wrong.
With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Is it wrong of me to want the Rules Committee to go back over Dungeon Saga?
I like what they did with Kings of War, Deadzone looks like it will follow similarly...
Seems like having them tackle Dungeon Saga (the Adventurer's Companion specifically) would probably cool a lot of jets out there that are unhappy with the way the book turned out.
I was saying that the Adventurer's Companion needed the Rules Committee treatment months back, right after I got and read my KS books. It's so obvious that Jake wanted to remake Heroquest, and had zero interest in the Advanced Heroquest/Warhammer Quest concepts that a lot of us backers were assured we'd get and were so looking forward to. Apparently Jake can only be counted on to write good core rules and add-ons that he's personally invested in, but then needs someone else to organize the good rules into an easier to understand format and tweak the bits he didn't have much enthusiasm for up to a playable standard.
Mymearan wrote:It seems extremely unwise to rely on the RC in such a great capacity... There's a reason people get a salary for their work, it's because you can hold them accountable and you can always count on them being there. Having community-run play testing is fine but letting them basically re-write your rules seems unprofessional and subject to any number of potential problems. Of course I'm not privy to what goes on and am simply going off what I've read on dakka, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Between the work they do and the issues I described above, I think may its time for Mantic to rely on Jake less and start paying the Rules Committee as freelancers. Hell, even if its just in product, they deserve some compensation from the company for all the good work they do. Maybe just hire Jake for core rules (if at all) and then hire the Rules Committee (or bribe them with swag) to do the "make this good game a great one, and add these features, please" pass.
@Psychopomp: That's pretty much happening already, the Deadzone RC wrote the entire Deadzone:Infestation expansion book (with the exception of the background text at the start and accompanying the armies).
4 volunteers collaborating can get a lot more done than one paid person juggling a lot of stuff at once. Simple division of labour, one of us wrote elite army lists, another did the fixed campaign, another did weather rules, I did the exploration phase section.
It's all very well blaming Jake (and he certainly has to take some of the Flak),
but you also have to think about how much time he was given to get everything written ?
and how much access to playtesters outside whatever group he plays with (since it's commissioned work he can't just put it out there) ?
and how much other stuff Mantic were asking him to do at the same time?
Well... Jake did get to do an open beta. He just chose to give us the core rules and two or three scenarios. So its quite possible he couldve given us the AC and additional scenarios as well...
scarletsquig wrote: @Psychopomp: That's pretty much happening already, the Deadzone RC wrote the entire Deadzone:Infestation expansion book (with the exception of the background text at the start and accompanying the armies).
4 volunteers collaborating can get a lot more done than one paid person juggling a lot of stuff at once. Simple division of labour, one of us wrote elite army lists, another did the fixed campaign, another did weather rules, I did the exploration phase section.
That sounds extremely sleazy to me. People who do work should get paid, exploiting dedicated fans to that degree is not a good look... And I can't imagine a sustainable business model either.
but you also have to think about how much time he was given to get everything written ?
and how much access to playtesters outside whatever group he plays with (since it's commissioned work he can't just put it out there) ?
and how much other stuff Mantic were asking him to do at the same time?
Pandora Project
Dwarf Kings Hold
Dreadball Season 1
Season 2
Season 3
Season 4
DB Ultimate
DB Azure Forest
DB Season 5
DB Season 6
DB Xtreme
Dungeon Saga
Mars Attacks
Deadzone
Deadzone Nexus Psi
Deadzone Contagion
Deadzone Infestation
Is the list of stuff I know he's done and/or helps FAQ rules stuff on for Mantic.
Sent mantic a ticket Thursday and got a response today. I've moved since the PM so I had to change address.
@Mymearan
RC are capable of making the choice of contributing or not. Exploitation is your opinion on the matter and my opinion is that mantic can't support 4(more?) full-time employees on top of everyone else. I assume there are tangible rewards. You know, beyond getting to help build something you love, a nice talking point on any resume and admiration of your local group
Don't get me wrong if they could be paid that would be great. But how much?
NobodyXY wrote: Sent mantic a ticket Thursday and got a response today. I've moved since the PM so I had to change address.
@Mymearan
RC are capable of making the choice of contributing or not. Exploitation is your opinion on the matter and my opinion is that mantic can't support 4(more?) full-time employees on top of everyone else. I assume there are tangible rewards. You know, beyond getting to help build something you love, a nice talking point on any resume and admiration of your local group
Don't get me wrong if they could be paid that would be great. But how much?
@psycho I think they already get stuff.
Unpaid employment is actually illegal in the US. Even interns are required to be paid by law. If Mantic can't afford people who actually create things people like then maybe they should have a kickstarter..
Student teaching is sort of interning. And you get no pay. You get valuable experience though! That's your pay. In fact, since it's also part of your college requirement, YOU pay to work there. Isn't America wonderful?!
Areas of Focus
1. Force Selection – we will start the playtesting with Force Selection left completely open. We want you to create army lists and play games with “spam” forces in order to break the game. This will allow us to see where restrictions need to be put in place.
2. Missions and Objectives – linked to force selection, there are likely to be some forces that excel at certain secondary objectives. While we want the secondary objectives to always add a slight unbalancing factor, there should not be any that a force can auto-win. While designing your force, review the secondary objectives and see if there are any that could be a problem.
3. Force Specific Objectives and Orders – these are not all filled in yet. We are looking for suggestions on characterful rules to fill these spaces and add a new twist to each faction.
4. General Points Values and Balance – try out different forces, and tell us what works and what doesn’t, what’s too cheap, what’s too expensive. Please note that vehicles in particular have fairly arbitrary points values currently as they are hard to benchmark against infantry. Only playing will give us the answers.
Change Log
-General clarifications and corrections throughout, including a few tweaks to points values (Jotunn and Raptor) – be sure to double check your army lists.
-Flyers are now a variant Vehicle class like Tanks are, rather than having a special rule. No mechanical change, just cleaner from a wording point of view. This prevented the redundancy of them having exceptions to rules that didn't affect them in the first place!
Comments on the KS seem to indicate the coupon code isn't working for a lot of people. I only backed for $1 so I doubt I'll get the rulebooks, so can someone who does check and see if the rules images posted on the update match what's in the PDF? Or did the changes scarletsquig said were made actually show up?
skarsol wrote: Comments on the KS seem to indicate the coupon code isn't working for a lot of people. I only backed for $1 so I doubt I'll get the rulebooks, so can someone who does check and see if the rules images posted on the update match what's in the PDF? Or did the changes scarletsquig said were made actually show up?
Code worked for me, but no time to check the contents right now
skarsol wrote: ...so can someone who does check and see if the rules images posted on the update match what's in the PDF? Or did the changes scarletsquig said were made actually show up?
There is no difference in the preview image and the pdf. There are typos in the pdf (however minor they may be there are some extra s's in there) .
Go go Mantic! Now the question is did Mantic just discard the corrections provided by scarletsquig and co or was "Its okay, I pearsonally helped to proofread the entire book and while it had lost of mistakes to start with, we fixed them all." an exaggeration?
skarsol wrote: Comments on the KS seem to indicate the coupon code isn't working for a lot of people. I only backed for $1 so I doubt I'll get the rulebooks, so can someone who does check and see if the rules images posted on the update match what's in the PDF? Or did the changes scarletsquig said were made actually show up?
I backed for quite a bit more, but I have no code so far... checked the spam folder, too.
Starter Strike teams
Enforcers:
Enforcer Captain x 1; Assault Enforcer x 1; Enforcer x 1; Enforcer with Burst Laser x 1; D.O.G. Drone x 1
FF Steel Warrior Huscarl x 1; Steel Warrior x 2; Steel Warrior with Dragon’s Breath x 1
That plus the cover image and promo shots showing FF+ Enforcers pretty much means that the next starter/boxset will be Enforcer V FF, A lot of the example images are a lot clearer. than V1
Some cool imagery of an Asterian fighting the purple rebs critter.
Secret mission seem like they'd add to variation.
The Unit profiles have a bit of fluff with them which is fun.
The Aberration is really cool looking.
The Progenitor is has a really intresting colour scheme.
The night terror also looks really nice.
All Warpath specific units are don't include a picture.
Quick reference sheet at the back.
The Infestation Book has weather conditions as a feature.
My favourite: Slurry storm
Basically a board edge is randomally choosen and a cloud of toxic chemicals blasts in from a board edge. D4 decides what turn it happens
The infestation campaign will definetly make it to our table.
First time Ive been able to sit down with it.
Edit: Starter instead of Pre-generated
Ooops bad wording there more like starter lists they look like 100 point teams. The book has stats for all the things folks. sheesh.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here we have put together two example Strike Teams to help you get started. Set up the Patrol mission as described on page 12 and then use these forces to get a feel for the game.
Of course, it will rather rankle when we get said Plague Aberration ($25 at the discounted Kickstarter price) in boardgame plastic and compare it to their painted resin version! Still really angry about that one.
But yes, the slightly modified Plague colour scheme is greatly preferable to the old, makes them look properly infected rather than...dayglo. I actually quite like the Veermyn yellow, but it's having difficulty showing the highlighting in photos.
Not seen this spectacularly pulpy bit of art before:
skarsol wrote: Comments on the KS seem to indicate the coupon code isn't working for a lot of people. I only backed for $1 so I doubt I'll get the rulebooks, so can someone who does check and see if the rules images posted on the update match what's in the PDF? Or did the changes scarletsquig said were made actually show up?
I backed for quite a bit more, but I have no code so far... checked the spam folder, too.
Backed for $200 here (not $1!), but in typical Mantic style, I've received no code or comms about it. Go, go Mantic!
The beta copy of the rules and army lists is final in any case, so you can use that until the shiny .pdf arrives (I don't have my copy either).
Really interested in feedback on the Infestation book since that's the Deadzone RC's first major piece of writing (our main task with the main rules was cleaning a few things up and balancing the army lists properly). The exploration phase section at the back is my contribution there.
Rebel Sorak Swordspawn is still an option, covered by the weapon options for the Sorak, this is generally the case for all units that appear to be missing at first glance, they're either in there, or planned for an expansion or .pdf.
- Interactive Glossary – find rule definitions quickly
- Global Header Search – jump between locations as easily as flipping a page
- Living Rules – FAQs, Errata and Exclusives
- Original Print PDF in high definition
- EPUB and MOBI files for eReaders like Nook and Kindle
So possibly, if you think that you'll be using the digital versions on a tablet as much/more so than the physical book. But only the PDF versions are available right now anyway, so even if you upgrade you'll have to wait until the ebook versions are officially released for those.
To think Palladium has a black list would give them credit for being organized . I wonder if they are doing a pledge level of distribution on the rules.
I don't have any link to the file from Mantic yet either.
The artist got the Sorak Swordspawn's anatomy wrong. They're supposed to have two large walking arms and two short arms, not one large arm and three short ones.
I think it's an odd perspective shot. The other Large arm is the one in the background holding.....something, and it is twisting over with it's chest facing up and the neck turned painfully. Due to distance they tried to make that other large hand look smaller, and so it looks like they have 3 small hands and one big one.
Did you guys get the Mantic Email: Next Level Gaming? or anything from mantic digital? $1 backers had access I thought? any $1 dollar backer that can confirm that they got the code
Maybe try the ticket system? If all else fails. They should be able to manually give out codes, as it seems to be a generated code.
@Theo, I'm in for LD what about you? Bob?
I'm hoping some of those super exlusive, Never to be seen in the wild Metals get a resculpt or whatever is holding them back.
$1 Deadzone backers don't get the pdf you needed to be at least $35 for the pdf. The Warpath KS did give $1 backers the rules as pdfs.
Pledge $1 or more
THANK YOU FOR BACKING!
This reward level is perfect if you just want to pledge for add-ons. * Shipping charged after campaign ends (see Shipping section for full details)
Pledge $35 or more
OUTBREAK
Get the new Hardback Deadzone Core Rulebook, the Alien Planet Gaming Mat, and a digital copies of the Deadzone Rulebook and Infestation Mission Pack. Shipping charged after campaign ends (see Shipping section for full details)
That said if you backed at $1 and upped in the PM you will probably need to chase it up with Mantic digital much like happened with KoW as they still identify you as a $1 backer.
Backers of the original DZ should get the pdfs as well. Not sure what order they are sending them in. I got mine as a Lockdown level backer they might be doing them in waves by pledge level?
I went in for the $1, then got dicked around with my KOW2 stuff and then got the dungeon Saga stuff with the abysmal editing problems aafter this closed (i think). I had requested a refund for the $1 IF they didn't fix my KOW2 problems in a quick pace. Two months of no communications, but I finally got my KOW2 situated thanks to Rich going on vacation and Chris (I believe was his name) fixing my order. A few weeks later I got the refund (which was requested IF they didn't fix my pledge, and a note from Rich saying hey look i did something for you . I chased it up with another email saying that I wanted to get the refund only IF they didn't get my KOW2 pledge to me, not only that but the timing of when I requested the refund was within the 30 day 100% refund period, but since they took 2 months they only gave 90cents back (kickstarter fees). I know it's only a dime, but at that point I was already insulted and frustrated, so I shot them another email saying I wanted either the 10 cents back or to charge me the 90 cents again and put me back in for the $1 pledge. I got the 10 cents back later . Guess you know why I really love their customer service skills now.
I really don't know any of them, but I'm still watching to see if any changes happen inside of Mantic with the addition of the new blood they hired. So far all I've read here and on their forums is that people are still waiting on KOW2 stuff, Dungeon Saga stuff, a few still waiting on Dreadball extreme material and all the responses are just more of the form letter responses saying please wait longer.....were in deeper than we thought.
I went in for the $1, then got dicked around with my KOW2 stuff and then got the dungeon Saga stuff with the abysmal editing problems aafter this closed (i think). I had requested a refund for the $1 IF they didn't fix my KOW2 problems in a quick pace. Two months of no communications, but I finally got my KOW2 situated thanks to Rich going on vacation and Chris (I believe was his name) fixing my order. A few weeks later I got the refund (which was requested IF they didn't fix my pledge, and a note from Rich saying hey look i did something for you . I chased it up with another email saying that I wanted to get the refund only IF they didn't get my KOW2 pledge to me, not only that but the timing of when I requested the refund was within the 30 day 100% refund period, but since they took 2 months they only gave 90cents back (kickstarter fees). I know it's only a dime, but at that point I was already insulted and frustrated, so I shot them another email saying I wanted either the 10 cents back or to charge me the 90 cents again and put me back in for the $1 pledge. I got the 10 cents back later . Guess you know why I really love their customer service skills now.
I really don't know any of them, but I'm still watching to see if any changes happen inside of Mantic with the addition of the new blood they hired. So far all I've read here and on their forums is that people are still waiting on KOW2 stuff, Dungeon Saga stuff, a few still waiting on Dreadball extreme material and all the responses are just more of the form letter responses saying please wait longer.....were in deeper than we thought.
Unless you consider 2 months "in a quick pace" it sounds like you got exactly what you asked for. I am actually surprised they bothered to refund 10 cents I can imagine many companies wouldn't and it sounds like they spent far more time on you than one dollar really justified.
I'm going to assume you didn't get a PDF. I missed what DaveC posted from the KS. I can't believe you asked them for the fees KS takes.
A lot of what your writing is angry, and vague. That's just a bad mix. I want to hear your side but it needs less face palming and more calm description.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be mad, but it does colour my perception of the situation slightly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: KOW2 has a another shipment doesn't it? I feel like we haven't seen the nyaids or whatever released yet?
@Nostro oh okay thanks, I thought retail was generally a little before KS shipments or slightly after, but I haven't seen more than a small picture of them. I might have missed it.
Theophony wrote: I think it's an odd perspective shot. The other Large arm is the one in the background holding.....something, and it is twisting over with it's chest facing up and the neck turned painfully. Due to distance they tried to make that other large hand look smaller, and so it looks like they have 3 small hands and one big one.
You're right. I got confused by the two upper arms - they cross over each other around the elbow, and I mixed up which was which, which threw off the spatial depth.
So as you say, it's just a case of foreshortening the arm. Carry on.
I'm going to assume you didn't get a PDF. I missed what DaveC posted from the KS. I can't believe you asked them for the fees KS takes.
A lot of what your writing is angry, and vague. That's just a bad mix. I want to hear your side but it needs less face palming and more calm description.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be mad, but it does colour my perception of the situation slightly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: KOW2 has a another shipment doesn't it? I feel like we haven't seen the nyaids or whatever released yet?
Sorry, was in a rush when I typed it out, and it gets my ire up too.
Oct 13th, 2015, I messaged rich (seperate from my KOW2 issues) saying I want a refund on my pledge.
Nov 5th, 2015, Rich messages back saying he wants my information to refund the total less the Kickstarter fees.
I replied within 4 hours (I was at work) still Nov 5th, 2015. Never mind Rich, keep me in because of the free PDF.
Dec 18th, 2015, I get the refund for the $0.90
Dec 18th, 2015, I reply back asking if they bothered to read my response that I did not want to be dropped.
Jan 12th, 2016, Chris (who has been great getting me my KOW2 pledge) replied and said that he would get me placed back on the list to receive the rules and wouldn't worry about the $1.
I'll try shooting Chris a message tomorrow for him to see on Monday.
The bigger issue I have with Mantic is really Rich. During the KOW2 KS he was always present and answering questions. Afterwards he disappears, and when issues arose during fulfillment he started blaming the supporters and calling people "liars" (wasn't directed at me, but poor CS skills). Turns out all those liars were people who's pledges disappeared (not lost, they hate it when we say they lost the pledge) because of their computer program. Also Rich promised me he mailed my package out the day before he announced he was leaving on vacation the next day. That package never arrived, but the first day of his vacation Chris messaged me saying he had my package in hand and would mailing out in the next hour. Chris' package arrived with his signature on it in a week. I know everything cannot be laid on Richs feet, but he is the public face of the CS department, and mine wasn't the only promise he made and did not follow up on.
Call me a troll if you want, but until I see different from Mantic, I'll voice my poor service story any chance I get.
Thanks for taking the time to write that, I just want to say that I don't think your a troll first and foremost. The time between sending a message and getting a response is pretty bad, personally I wouldn't have been so patient!
I'd try the ticket system if your willing, share your post (I'd almost say copy/paste) in the ticket system. By all means keep sharing your experience. It's good for companies to be held accountable. Forums and the like are a good avenue for customer satisfaction that might not happen otherwise.
At the very least having an open ticket for any issues make them hard to forget/ ignore.
I recently bought two Wrath of Kings starter sets (thanks miniature market sale!) - the plastic is phenomenal, like an order of magnitude cleaner and crisper than Privateer Press and older Mantic PVC. Is this the stuff that the new Deadzone & Warpath plastic will be in?
Now I want to make tinfoil Hat marines 
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
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