chaos0xomega wrote: The Manta is in an entirely different size category from the Vampire or anything that has been released for Imperium/Orks thus far.
It'll be comparable to the Ork Megabomma and the Harbinger Bomber (if it comes out) and, to a lesser extent, the Sokkar Stormbird
chaos0xomega wrote: The Manta is in an entirely different size category from the Vampire or anything that has been released for Imperium/Orks thus far.
It'll be comparable to the Ork Megabomma and the Harbinger Bomber (if it comes out) and, to a lesser extent, the Sokkar Stormbird
The Manta dwarfs the Ork Megabomma. The Harbinger would be an equivalent, but that would require the addition of a whole nother faction to the game. Don't know much about the Stormbird, but point is its not in the game. The key phrase to my statement is "that has been released thus far". The point that I am making is that releasing the Manta would not give "every faction a big plane in plastic" - it would give one faction a ginormous plane (and would probably be in resin lol).
I'd love a Manta just to have it, but it's far too large for AI hex maps. A Sun Shark would be a much more table-appropriate bomber, if GW starts doing non FW models.
Here's a forgeworld full size 40K Manta next to a FW Thunderhawk
chaos0xomega wrote: The Manta is in an entirely different size category from the Vampire or anything that has been released for Imperium/Orks thus far.
It'll be comparable to the Ork Megabomma and the Harbinger Bomber (if it comes out) and, to a lesser extent, the Sokkar Stormbird
The megabomma is tiny compared to a manta. If you want something of a comparable size, I recommend maybe a single base that’s like 5 huge planes, all the guys from deft skwadron, kommanda uzgob would be great lol.
chaos0xomega wrote: The Manta is in an entirely different size category from the Vampire or anything that has been released for Imperium/Orks thus far.
It'll be comparable to the Ork Megabomma and the Harbinger Bomber (if it comes out) and, to a lesser extent, the Sokkar Stormbird
The megabomma is tiny compared to a manta. If you want something of a comparable size, I recommend maybe a single base that’s like 5 huge planes, all the guys from deft skwadron, kommanda uzgob would be great lol.
They really should do cards for them - especially Good Ole Killboy
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean yes, the plastic Tau flyers are 100% pure unadulterated awful, but is that actually why FW didn't use them?
Do you need more reasons than that?
They didn't use the Eldar GW flyer either, and have stayed away from the Space Marine GW flyers, all of which IMO look much worse than the FW efforts, so I assume it's an aesthetic choice.
ALL of the models have been Forgeworld models so far. Even the Valkyrie was originally a forgeworld resin kit that GW remade in plastic a few years later
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean yes, the plastic Tau flyers are 100% pure unadulterated awful, but is that actually why FW didn't use them?
I suspect it's because that they're pretty much scaled and armed for 6x4 games of 40k and equipped with small arms. Take the overall naff Marine flyers. There's not much you can do in dogfight with small arms like hurricane bolters or multimeltas as your primary weapon.
Kalamadea wrote: ALL of the models have been Forgeworld models so far. Even the Valkyrie was originally a forgeworld resin kit that GW remade in plastic a few years later
Well, the Dakkajet is GWs version of the Ork Fighta, which was FWs version of the old Epic Ork Fighta-Bommer
Dysartes wrote: Though the Stormhawk Interceptor might have had a role in AI.
I'm much happier they went with the Xiphon.
So many of the GW40k aircraft look like they're designed for a 32mm table top game in the sense they are too small and have more toy like proportions. To my eye the FW aircraft look like actual aircraft size and proportion (excluding the obvious aerodynamic flaws of course).
They have added some new aircraft since the original. The original didn't have the Xiphon or the Storm Eagle / Fire Raptor, and it used the old pattern for the Fighta, Lightning, Barracuda and Tiger Sharks.
I don't think there's any big reason they've used the FW aircraft other than they exist, but I'm glad they did.
Sarouan wrote: Feel the more likely reason is simply they took old Aeronautica Imperialis game and models as base for the new version.
Which is why the original plan was for 5 factions (the same than old AI) and why I expect there will be nothing more for that version.
*cough* chaos were in the original AI *cough*
The 40k flyers (apart from the Dark Eldar) look garbage, glad they choose to go with the original AI models.
If you assume Space Marines were part of the broader "Imperium", then the original AI had 5 factions including chaos. That was more valid in the first AI because Space Marines really only had the Thunderhawk back then, and they needed to be supported by Imperial Navy fighters.
But now Space Marines are their own faction, so the "5" doesn't include Chaos.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Has anyone ever found GW's special dice to be weighted weirdly?
I was playing with my Eldar AI dice and was getting an insane number of 1's and 2's, lol.
My various Necromunda and Titanicus dice are like that. I seem to roll badly. Especially with Necromunda - I always roll a 60 something when working out injuries but ones for hitting and ammo checks. I've had a huge number of gangers die
I thought it was more like 18.9% or similar for hollowed out round corner dice? But they might not have been the small dice which would affect things more.
I thought it was more like 18.9% or similar for hollowed out round corner dice? But they might not have been the small dice which would affect things more.
Actually I remember reading that article a while back and thinking they must have had a dud batch of dice or some sort of biased rolling method, because when I did a test with my own dice (this was years ago, not the Eldar AI dice I have now) I got the following statistics, where the x-axis is the number of rolls and the y-axis is the proportion of times a given result of 1 to 6 came up. My dice were actually biased towards 6 rather than 1 on average.
But yeah, I haven't done any similar test with the Eldar AI dice, I was just playing with them and seemed to have terrible luck which made me think maybe they were biased Maybe if I have a few spare hours one day I'll do the same test and see what comes up, lol.
Got to say the models look absolutely gorgeous, the rule book is nice...just a shame that it isn't the full rules (enough for what is in the box).
One thing that struck me as odd was that there are rules for a Space Marine Fire Raptor yet the Storm Raven doesn't have parts to make it into a Fire Raptor. Looks like only a small difference between the two, so might just be a single accessory sprue in the future. I bet it is released when the Thunderhawk is released.
Got to say the models look absolutely gorgeous, the rule book is nice...just a shame that it isn't the full rules (enough for what is in the box).
One thing that struck me as odd was that there are rules for a Space Marine Fire Raptor yet the Storm Raven doesn't have parts to make it into a Fire Raptor. Looks like only a small difference between the two, so might just be a single accessory sprue in the future. I bet it is released when the Thunderhawk is released.
Must have been a slow order to take so long! My Kill Team took 2 weeks to arrive, but I got my AI the day after release (delivered on a Sunday).
For the Fire Raptor, I'm guessing either an add on sprue (and a price bump to go with it) or something we haven't seen yet in AI, a partially plastic and partially resin kit from FW.
Got to say the models look absolutely gorgeous, the rule book is nice...just a shame that it isn't the full rules (enough for what is in the box).
One thing that struck me as odd was that there are rules for a Space Marine Fire Raptor yet the Storm Raven doesn't have parts to make it into a Fire Raptor. Looks like only a small difference between the two, so might just be a single accessory sprue in the future. I bet it is released when the Thunderhawk is released.
Must have been a slow order to take so long! My Kill Team took 2 weeks to arrive, but I got my AI the day after release (delivered on a Sunday).
For the Fire Raptor, I'm guessing either an add on sprue (and a price bump to go with it) or something we haven't seen yet in AI, a partially plastic and partially resin kit from FW.
I ordered in advance of release as well. Ireland is a very short trip to the England, so not sure what took so long.
zedmeister wrote: It'll be a wholly new plastic kit in my opinion. The side guns are recessed into the fuselage and the Storm Raven doesn't have the fixtures for that
Would be too expensive to cut a whole new plastic kit for what amounts to a current plane just missing the missile pods, a few guns on the side, and a different set of front guns. I think there is enough room on the sides for the side guns to be attached.
Still, will be nice to see it released, seems to have some serious firepower.
zedmeister wrote: It'll be a wholly new plastic kit in my opinion. The side guns are recessed into the fuselage and the Storm Raven doesn't have the fixtures for that
The sides of the fuselage are separate parts though. They could just have an add on sprue (or resin upgrade) that replaces the entire side of the Storm Eagle.
zedmeister wrote: It'll be a wholly new plastic kit in my opinion. The side guns are recessed into the fuselage and the Storm Raven doesn't have the fixtures for that
The sides of the fuselage are separate parts though. They could just have an add on sprue (or resin upgrade) that replaces the entire side of the Storm Eagle.
The Marauders they split some of the parts out to a separate sprue to swap for the different builds.
zedmeister wrote: It'll be a wholly new plastic kit in my opinion. The side guns are recessed into the fuselage and the Storm Raven doesn't have the fixtures for that
The sides of the fuselage are separate parts though. They could just have an add on sprue (or resin upgrade) that replaces the entire side of the Storm Eagle.
The Marauders they split some of the parts out to a separate sprue to swap for the different builds.
Yeah, I had expected the Storm Eagle to be the same but it seems they've jammed it all on to a single sprue. I'm still going to guess that the Fire Raptor will use the plastic Storm Eagle as a base model and replace the sides with either another plastic sprue or resin parts from FW.
I feel like maybe the reason they didn't do it the same way they did the Marauders was to save themselves manufacturing an extra sprue. So if they split some parts off onto a separate sprue, the Storm Eagle would require 2 sprues and the Fire Raptor would require 2 sprues, meaning 3 sprues in total. But doing it this way, they can get away with only 1 sprue for the Storm Eagle and 2 sprues (or 1 sprue + resin) for the Fire Raptor and bump up the price even higher for it.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Yeah, I had expected the Storm Eagle to be the same but it seems they've jammed it all on to a single sprue. I'm still going to guess that the Fire Raptor will use the plastic Storm Eagle as a base model and replace the sides with either another plastic sprue or resin parts from FW.
You may be right but I feel there's just too much that needs to be replaced to use any sort of hybrid method.
My thinking is that if the Fire Raptor is a FW release, you'll get it as a fully resin kit. The fuselage will be one piece with some bits to glue on, probably the wings and some weapons.
If it's a SG release, it will most likely be a new plastic sprue that makes a complete Fire Raptor not an add-on sprue as that would drive the cost up.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Yeah, I had expected the Storm Eagle to be the same but it seems they've jammed it all on to a single sprue. I'm still going to guess that the Fire Raptor will use the plastic Storm Eagle as a base model and replace the sides with either another plastic sprue or resin parts from FW.
You may be right but I feel there's just too much that needs to be replaced to use any sort of hybrid method.
My thinking is that if the Fire Raptor is a FW release, you'll get it as a fully resin kit. The fuselage will be one piece with some bits to glue on, probably the wings and some weapons.
Yeah perhaps, we might just see a whole resin Fire Raptor that doesn't use any existing parts.
If it's a SG release, it will most likely be a new plastic sprue that makes a complete Fire Raptor not an add-on sprue as that would drive the cost up.
This is GW we're talking about, I don't think they worry too much about bumping the price up
But yeah, maybe. My thought would be they'd do an add-on which is a smaller sprue to keep down their machining costs, but perhaps their machining costs are less significant than their casting costs in which case it'd make more sense to have an entirely new larger sprue rather than a smaller add on sprue.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I guess this is another nail in the coffin in terms of getting an Eldar Vampire or a campaign book this time round.
Campaign book...yeah. Since they keep pushing for the previous two.
As for the vampire, since I expect it to be a FW release, all hope isn't lost yet. Just roll a D6+D3 for the number of year before it's previewed on Warhammer Community.
How many folks don't attach the missiles to their ships, and just keep count of them on the record sheet?
I picked up some of the models, and after thinking about it, will probably leave the missiles off. I mean, I don't think anyone removes them from their model after they're actually fired, so it wouldn't be WYSIWYG anyways...
Stormonu wrote: How many folks don't attach the missiles to their ships, and just keep count of them on the record sheet?
I picked up some of the models, and after thinking about it, will probably leave the missiles off. I mean, I don't think anyone removes them from their model after they're actually fired, so it wouldn't be WYSIWYG anyways...
I think it’s mostly that nobody cares about the correct missile loadout and people just glue on what looks cool. My Navy planes have more missiles and bombs than I would be happy to spend points on.
yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
Stormonu wrote: How many folks don't attach the missiles to their ships, and just keep count of them on the record sheet?
I picked up some of the models, and after thinking about it, will probably leave the missiles off. I mean, I don't think anyone removes them from their model after they're actually fired, so it wouldn't be WYSIWYG anyways...
I think people who play the current AI use rather the "rule of cool" and build them with missiles if it looks good to them.
Missiles are usually not worth their cost in points in the game, anyway.
At least with the recent Space Marine and Eldar aircrafts, the question doesn't need to be asked (there's nothing to put under their wings, it's all generic with the exception of the Phoenix that has a single variant barely visible).
Mr_Rose wrote: Anyone know why the thunderhawk is two cards wide? Haven’t got the book.
What do you mean "two cards wide"? Did I miss something (again)?
The Aircraft and Aces card set for the Marines has eight Thunderhawk cards but they have two designs; one with just the picture and one with just the stats. I assumed they were to be played together, possibly meaning you had twice as many slots for upgrades.
Mr_Rose wrote: Anyone know why the thunderhawk is two cards wide? Haven’t got the book.
What do you mean "two cards wide"? Did I miss something (again)?
The Aircraft and Aces card set for the Marines has eight Thunderhawk cards but they have two designs; one with just the picture and one with just the stats. I assumed they were to be played together, possibly meaning you had twice as many slots for upgrades.
I think it’s just an aesthetic choice. They wanted to include a picture but couldn’t fit it on top of the stats. So they made an additional card just for the picture, which you don’t need to play.
Stormonu wrote: How many folks don't attach the missiles to their ships, and just keep count of them on the record sheet?
I picked up some of the models, and after thinking about it, will probably leave the missiles off. I mean, I don't think anyone removes them from their model after they're actually fired, so it wouldn't be WYSIWYG anyways...
I think people who play the current AI use rather the "rule of cool" and build them with missiles if it looks good to them.
Missiles are usually not worth their cost in points in the game, anyway.
At least with the recent Space Marine and Eldar aircrafts, the question doesn't need to be asked (there's nothing to put under their wings, it's all generic with the exception of the Phoenix that has a single variant barely visible).
For Eldar it‘s the additional weapons. I glued them under all my Eldar planes because they look better this way. Does not mean I‘m taking them in every game.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.
Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.
Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.
The FW valkyrie kit was far before CAD. GW did change it over when they made the plastic kit, but FW was a lot later in adopting CAD sculpting. I want to say that it was the Warlord Titan that was the first big CAD sculpt that FW did. And I think some of the Heresy SM tanks were adapted over and remastered, I sort of recall the original Spartans and similar hulls having separate parts for tracks originally, but I might be imagining that.
They're up on GW's site now. Though they haven't appeared on the 3rd party store I normally buy from yet.
Looks like I was wrong on the Fire Raptor, GW did something completely different and made a sprue with only 1 Fire Raptor but are including 2x sprues in the box.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Thunderhawks went out of stock pretty quick in Oz.
I've only just realized the Thunderhawk was changed at some point, when did that happen? Much prefer the previous version with the different tail and side turrets.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I've only just realized the Thunderhawk was changed at some point, when did that happen? Much prefer the previous version with the different tail and side turrets.
About 4 years ago it was updated.
I preferred the protruding bird cage style canopy of the old one, or even more I preferred the one with wind screen wipers from the old old one (the metal one of the 90's). The flush style canopy of the current one doesn't look right to me.
schoon wrote: The Thunderhawk disappeared fairly quickly from the US site as well. Makes me wonder if it was delayed and pulled off pre-order...
I managed to order one from an independent store (though most listed it as out of stock, so I hope I actually receive it).
I'm guessing they either didn't make many, and/or they underestimated how many people would want a tiny plastic Thunderhawk.
It's the sort of kit some people who aren't into AI might buy just to have on the shelf, or perhaps AT players would buy it as terrain or an objective marker. So if they only made as many as they make other AI kits, perhaps that's why it sold out quickly.
RazorEdge wrote: There exist also rumours for a Expansion of AT with Airplanes.
How knows whan comes.
Strongly doubt it will happen. AT is set during the HH, so the Imperial planes of AI would be completely wrong. It would require a whole new range of HH era planes.
Think the rumour is wishful thinking by those who want Epic back. Can't say I blame them, but I doubt we are getting Epic back.
RazorEdge wrote: There exist also rumours for a Expansion of AT with Airplanes.
How knows whan comes.
Strongly doubt it will happen. AT is set during the HH, so the Imperial planes of AI would be completely wrong. It would require a whole new range of HH era planes.
Think the rumour is wishful thinking by those who want Epic back. Can't say I blame them, but I doubt we are getting Epic back.
But at the same time, nearly all AT titans are entirely correct for 40k.
Racerguy180 wrote: So wait, they didn't have fire Raptors, thunderhawks, & Xiphons in 30k? Huh I always thought they did.
I think Fire Raptors are in 30k, but the rest of the Imperial planes are if I remember correctly different.
I thought there was fluff of Thunderbolts going back to 30k, but maybe I'm mistaken.
The Primaris/Voss lightning existed in the heresy for sure. Can't remember if the thunderbolt, avenger, and marauder are in one of the black or red books though.
Titan's for the 30-40K era are basically ageless constructs. The rest of the armed forces appear to retain the same general organisational structure, but visually go through reasonably significant outward changes in design.
So for AT if they wanted to bring the 40K era style aircraft into the game they'd just advance the AT storyline by 10K years. Same as they'd likely do for adding Tyranids, Tau and Necrons. Orks and Eldar I believe they can add during the 30K era and - much like their Imperial counterparts, those titans would also be ageless in design.
The onyl ones that change through time significantly are the corrupted titans which become more twisted and demonic. However once/if gw releases a twisted demonic titan force it is, again, basically ageless..
I’d think given the ‘meh’ at best reaction to Aeronautica Imperialis, it’s far more likely that AI will get Squatted after this last release, than you’ll see Epic again. Locally, AI was dead on arrival, and you have to special order it - not being carried as a stock item in my three closest independent GW retailers.
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
Right. I guess the strategic benefit is to spend lots of money developing a game and tooling plastic kits for a game no one plays and stores don’t carry to keep the people away from someone else’s game
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mentlegen324 wrote: Has there been any indication at all about how well aeronautica has done so far?
GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
Right. I guess the strategic benefit is to spend lots of money developing a game and tooling plastic kits for a game no one plays and stores don’t carry to keep the people away from someone else’s game
You say that, but in the past they sunk a lot of time, money and goodwill to try and screw a perceived competitor. (Chapterhouse)
GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.
They're also reporting that Titanicus is going to have aircraft and ground units added, which doesn't really seem to make much sense. Half the Aeronautica line effectively gets abandoned without more being added to the game itself, the other half gets stuck ontop of a completely different game?
They seem to report all sorts of different rumours no matter how baseless or wild, though.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Has there been any indication at all about how well aeronautica has done so far?
GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.
They're also reporting that Titanicus is going to have aircraft and ground units added, which doesn't really seem to make much sense. Half the Aeronautica line effectively gets abandoned without more being added to the game itself, the other half gets stuck ontop of a completely different game?
They seem to report all sorts of different rumours no matter how baseless or wild, though.
Rumors come from different people who are in different meeting levels. One guy will be in a meeting hearing about the sales numbers and that AI is not hitting hard enough, so it's being trashed. So he reports the game is being abandoned completely. The next guy comes out of the Meeting with rules writers and development, They are told AI is being discontinued due to poor sales and "Johnny" says it would be a shame to throw away the molds for the planes as they are in the same scale as AT, Lets bring air assets into AT (Cheers and Johnny gets a pat on the back). Guy in packaging is told not to use any more of the AI boxes and cancel any outstanding print orders for those boxes (getting rebranded for AT, but he is not told that..Yet). So he reports the game is gone, no more product will ever be coming out.
Different mid level employees of GW all with equal truth...We won't know until it happens or we see some more concrete evidence. It's the nature of rumors.
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
If that was their goal they should have put more effort into making the rules not suck.
As it is, I think a large chunk of people who collect AI are collectors more than gamers, while for X-wing people are more likely to get into it for the game.
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
If that was their goal they should have put more effort into making the rules not suck.
As it is, I think a large chunk of people who collect AI are collectors more than gamers, while for X-wing people are more likely to get into it for the game.
I would mostly agree with this, base on my own anechdotal evidence.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.
To be fair, this depends on the sculpt and design, etc. In my own case, I design and sell 3d printable 28mm terrain, but I've had customers scale down some of the designs to 6/8mm AT scale and the results were stunning. Obviously some details get lost/disappear, but not anything that you would really miss at that scale.
Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.
IIRC the original AI minis were all sculpted by hand, I recall seeing masters/sculpt in progress photos of some of the aircraft at a Games Day or posted online somewhere.
Rumors come from people making gak up so they can drive clicks and web traffic to their sites or get 15 minutes of internet fame.
FTFY. Very few rumors are actually being generated by a reliable source thats in the know, the recent rumor dump that has been almost entirely spot-on is a rare exception these days (apparently - or else they took some very very very good guesses).
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
#doubt. AI exists to diversify product lines and drive sales volume. This is a hobby where sales are primarily generated from new product releases (churn, if you will) and not from legacy products sitting on store shelves. GW isn't producing games like this to "keep people in the fold" or stop people from going to competitors - as far as GW is concerned they have no competitors. GW produces stuff like AI to fill up its release schedule and give middle class nerds something new to spend their money on every week. That is GWs entire business model and why they operate the way they do.
chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.
People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.
Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.
To be fair, this depends on the sculpt and design, etc. In my own case, I design and sell 3d printable 28mm terrain, but I've had customers scale down some of the designs to 6/8mm AT scale and the results were stunning. Obviously some details get lost/disappear, but not anything that you would really miss at that scale.
Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.
IIRC the original AI minis were all sculpted by hand, I recall seeing masters/sculpt in progress photos of some of the aircraft at a Games Day or posted online somewhere.
Rumors come from people making gak up so they can drive clicks and web traffic to their sites or get 15 minutes of internet fame.
FTFY. Very few rumors are actually being generated by a reliable source thats in the know, the recent rumor dump that has been almost entirely spot-on is a rare exception these days (apparently - or else they took some very very very good guesses).
Easy E wrote: Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.
#doubt. AI exists to diversify product lines and drive sales volume. This is a hobby where sales are primarily generated from new product releases (churn, if you will) and not from legacy products sitting on store shelves. GW isn't producing games like this to "keep people in the fold" or stop people from going to competitors - as far as GW is concerned they have no competitors. GW produces stuff like AI to fill up its release schedule and give middle class nerds something new to spend their money on every week. That is GWs entire business model and why they operate the way they do.
You mind fixing your quotes, I don't think I have ever said that and when I click the link it sure doesn't say that where you drew the quote from.
Well, in the Kirby years, GW moved away from a diversified line of products. That is when competitors like X-wing, War Machines, Flames of War, Infinity, and other competitors grew. They grew so much, that according to the (flawed) top 5 rankings that GW's dominance was actually being challenged.
Then, the Kirby years ended, and GW started releasing new games other than the big two; and lo and behold they are on top again.
Sometimes, it is better to maintain your monopoly in a niche and lose a few bucks on a line, than to lose your monopoly in the first place.
This is a matter of history, as AI, AT, Necro, BB, etc are NOT where the company is making money. However, they also do not want to lose customers into other miniature segments, so it is better to keep them all in house so to speak.
GW's biggest asset seems to be the 40k brand itself. The more they can push that, the bigger it becomes, and the more they can get away with doing with it.
So, having specialist games with the 40k theme fill gaps players might like more than the 40k game.
I do think that the Thunderhawk is one model that has gotten progressively less cool as time has gone on. The previous one with the birdcage canopy looked better to me, and the one previous to that with the large single wind shield looked even better again.
Mr_Rose wrote: *remembers the original Flying Brick*
Yeah, no, even nostalgia goggles aren’t quite up to making that look good.
All versions have been flying bricks
I think it's mainly the flush mounted canopy I don't like.
EDIT: Actually, I forgot there was a Thunderhawk before the one I'm thinking about. The one I like isn't the very original, it's the one Forge World made of metal in the mid to late 90's. The one before that genuinely did look like a flying brick, lol.
Mr_Rose wrote: *remembers the original Flying Brick*
Yeah, no, even nostalgia goggles aren’t quite up to making that look good.
All versions have been flying bricks
I think it's mainly the flush mounted canopy I don't like.
EDIT: Actually, I forgot there was a Thunderhawk before the one I'm thinking about. The one I like isn't the very original, it's the one Forge World made of metal in the mid to late 90's. The one before that genuinely did look like a flying brick, lol.
I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.
I do think that the Thunderhawk is one model that has gotten progressively less cool as time has gone on. The previous one with the birdcage canopy looked better to me, and the one previous to that with the large single wind shield looked even better again.
I agree. I think the canopy, the tail and the front mounted weapon changes all make it seem less like a very sturdy, bulky, heavily armoured gunship.
Several times Forgeworld have re-designed vehicles in a way that lost some of the coolness of the original design. The Lightning is another one. Would have much preferred the original designs (or even alternative parts) for Aeronautica.
Dysartes wrote: I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.
Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.
Dysartes wrote: I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.
Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.
Imperial planes fly by the same principles that ork ones do anyways (belief ), so...
Dysartes wrote: I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.
Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.
Imperial planes fly by the same principles that ork ones do anyways (belief ), so...
Jadenim wrote: I’ve always found it an irony that the Ork flyers are actually the closest to being aerodynamically functional designs!
In the whole setting, honestly: the tau ships are bs, particularly the ones not from FW, and the eldars are... well, those might be able to fly, I guess, but the undercuts in all attack surfaces would certainly make them "fun" to fly.
Something tells me that wraithbone on eldar flyers generates some sort of field that basically turns the aerodynamics into that of a bumblebee.
Orks being actually most aerodynamic makes sense form follow function for them. Mek wants to build fighta, builds a mig15-7 doesn't go fast enuff, straps another engine on it and paints it red and you now have something that actually is an effective aerial combat vehicle.
Imperial take on aerodynamics is make everything a tank(Astartes wise) first then make it fly by sheer force of thrust.
Racerguy180 wrote: So wait, they didn't have fire Raptors, thunderhawks, & Xiphons in 30k? Huh I always thought they did.
I think Fire Raptors are in 30k, but the rest of the Imperial planes are if I remember correctly different.
You remember incorrectly. Every single Imperial flyer in AI is 30k compatible. All four Space Marine planes are in the black books as are all the Imperial fighters. i don’t think the Mauderer bombers are though.
Albertorius wrote: It helps that most designers and writers don't really understand how time works.
Oh yeah, ten thousand years covers all of recorded history up to today and then some, but in all that time the imperium has invented exactly: three new kinds of power suit, one new gun mount for an old tank. Then Cawl came along and reinvented the flying wheel.
I do think that the Thunderhawk is one model that has gotten progressively less cool as time has gone on. The previous one with the birdcage canopy looked better to me, and the one previous to that with the large single wind shield looked even better again.
I agree. I think the canopy, the tail and the front mounted weapon changes all make it seem less like a very sturdy, bulky, heavily armoured gunship.
Several times Forgeworld have re-designed vehicles in a way that lost some of the coolness of the original design. The Lightning is another one. Would have much preferred the original designs (or even alternative parts) for Aeronautica.
The tail! I knew there was something else wrong that my brain wasn't picking up on, yeah, the T-tail looked cooler.
When mine gets here I'm going to mock up an old style canopy, and maybe try and make a T-tail by press-moulding the canards from the Storm Eagle if they're the right size.
Still no indication of where the book is though. Maybe they are releasing more of a "Compendium" book (ala Loyalist/Traitor Legios) with rules from all the factions?
Yes, the Necrons are coming to Aeronautica Imperialis, and while their ships may look like croissants, they’re not just here for breakfast. Flying into enemy territory first is the Night Scythe. Just like its Warhammer 40,000 counterpart, it’s armed with a pair of tesla destructors and can be used to transport troops deep behind enemy lines.*
If you’d rather do away with that transport capacity,** you can alternatively add a heavy death ray and upgrade your ship into a Doom Scythe. And who doesn’t love a death ray?!
Yes, the Necrons are coming to Aeronautica Imperialis, and while their ships may look like croissants, they’re not just here for breakfast. Flying into enemy territory first is the Night Scythe. Just like its Warhammer 40,000 counterpart, it’s armed with a pair of tesla destructors and can be used to transport troops deep behind enemy lines.*
If you’d rather do away with that transport capacity,** you can alternatively add a heavy death ray and upgrade your ship into a Doom Scythe. And who doesn’t love a death ray?!
???
But nice to mention the crossant meme joke
From the 40k page for it:
Night Scythes also employ invasion beams to generate captive wormholes through which invading infantry can march direct from distant Necron tomb worlds to begin their conquests anew.
Yes, the Necrons are coming to Aeronautica Imperialis, and while their ships may look like croissants, they’re not just here for breakfast. Flying into enemy territory first is the Night Scythe. Just like its Warhammer 40,000 counterpart, it’s armed with a pair of tesla destructors and can be used to transport troops deep behind enemy lines.*
If you’d rather do away with that transport capacity,** you can alternatively add a heavy death ray and upgrade your ship into a Doom Scythe. And who doesn’t love a death ray?!
???
But nice to mention the crossant meme joke
From the 40k page for it:
Night Scythes also employ invasion beams to generate captive wormholes through which invading infantry can march direct from distant Necron tomb worlds to begin their conquests anew.
It's just a Aeronautica representation of this.
Yes but why mentioning something which is irrelevant for the game.
I don't think they'll be Forgeworld releases, it wouldn't make much sense to have 5 armies plastic and then this be resin, that would make them somewhat harder to get into them and less accessible.
So far Forgeworld has only released secondary more niche aircraft and not anything that's a main unit for a faction.
So,no longer limted to 5 factions? this would be the 6th faction.
I honestly expect a necron vs eldar 2p box to be honest, seeing as we wont get more eldar planes for the wrath of angels wave, and two planes for one faction aint viable.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Noice. Bring on the Cylon Raider vs Colonial Viper (Necrons vs Xiphons) battles
I hadn't thought of that. Oh, my wallet!
Hah, when I read the preview article I had the cylon scream sound effect (at least the one from the early 2000s reimagined series) going in my head.
Hmmm... I wonder if you could play the recent but now OOP Battlestar Galactica game with these minis?
As for release, assuming they are plastic I would be surprised if GW didn't launch them against an Imperial faction, but I'm not sure theres any remaining stuff on the Imperial side that they could conceivably release in a head-to-head box unless they decided to give the Astartes codex flyers (stormtalons and whatnot). Given that (with the exception of the night/doom scythe) all the sculpts thus far have been based on forgeworld designs rather than GW, I would say chaos is a good, but unlikely, candidate. There is of course AdMech, but at present I believe they only have the 3 GW flyers (or rather 1 flyer with 3 variants). Custodes have a number of flyers (or flyer-adjacent craft) that could be used here as well which are forgeworld sculpts. Excited to see what comes, hopefully its *not* just one off resin releases.
Sarouan wrote: Dunno, I'd say Adeptus Mechanicus to keep the "imperium vs xenos" theme for AI boxes so far.
Don't they only have 1 flyer, though?
One kit that has three different builds - Archaeopter Stratoraptor, Fusilave & Transvector. 30k has a flying robot (Vultarax Stratos-Automata) and they use Valkyrie / Vendetta / Vulture in some of the fluff.
Admech Valkyrie/Vendetta/Vulture would only be because they haven't bother to develop unique models for that faction. If they appear in AI, I'd be more apt to suspect the Archaeopter or a new design.
Though I suspect it unlikely, this would be a great time to develop some aircraft for Sisters of Battle.
Maybe they could weaponize some Argus Lifters for a GSC faction - or some other form of armored cargo hauler bristling with bolted-on weapons or converted deep mining weapons (Core miner laser, Seismic charges ala Slave I's Attack of the Clones, etc.).
Sarouan wrote: Dunno, I'd say Adeptus Mechanicus to keep the "imperium vs xenos" theme for AI boxes so far.
Don't they only have 1 flyer, though?
One kit that has three different builds - Archaeopter Stratoraptor, Fusilave & Transvector. 30k has a flying robot (Vultarax Stratos-Automata) and they use Valkyrie / Vendetta / Vulture in some of the fluff.
I don't think alternate loadouts for 1 aircraft alongside other already-existing Imperial Aircraft is enough to have them as a faction in the game, really. All the others, with the exception of the Astra Millitarum, have 3 - 4 different unique aircraft.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't think alternate loadouts for 1 aircraft alongside other already-existing Imperial Aircraft is enough to have them as a faction in the game, really. All the others, with the exception of the Astra Millitarum, have 3 - 4 different unique aircraft.
Well the necrons have basically 3 variants of same chassis so...Basically transport, fighter, bomber. Which fits about same as the AM variants are.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't think alternate loadouts for 1 aircraft alongside other already-existing Imperial Aircraft is enough to have them as a faction in the game, really. All the others, with the exception of the Astra Millitarum, have 3 - 4 different unique aircraft.
Well the necrons have basically 3 variants of same chassis so...Basically transport, fighter, bomber. Which fits about same as the AM variants are.
Its misleading to say that the bomber is a variant of the same chassis, you can't build it out of the same kit as the other two and the amount of additional resin added on to it is quite substantial and results in a much bulkier aircraft than the transport/fighter variants. The AdMech variants are all literally the same airframe just with weapon swaps. The two are not the same.
I liked the good old days back when GW didn’t try to pretend a weapon swap was a completely unique unit with a completely daft special name all of its own.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't think alternate loadouts for 1 aircraft alongside other already-existing Imperial Aircraft is enough to have them as a faction in the game, really. All the others, with the exception of the Astra Millitarum, have 3 - 4 different unique aircraft.
Well the necrons have basically 3 variants of same chassis so...Basically transport, fighter, bomber. Which fits about same as the AM variants are.
Its misleading to say that the bomber is a variant of the same chassis, you can't build it out of the same kit as the other two and the amount of additional resin added on to it is quite substantial and results in a much bulkier aircraft than the transport/fighter variants. The AdMech variants are all literally the same airframe just with weapon swaps. The two are not the same.
They still look very same. Fw can just come up with couple extra bits for am thing and hey presto 4 flyers.
I fear these Necron crafts are definitely Resin, especially this soon after the previous box release. Though I'm suprised there aren't any Eldar FW releases, which is what I assumed was next. I definitely let the rumors get to me, though I still suspect we're roughly at the end of plastic releases. God I hope I'm wrong.
Also - I still have never seen ANY of the ground assets available for purchase in the USA - I really want those adorable little sculpts for Titanicus and AI purposes. I've only ever seen them on the sketchy looking recaster websites that pop up. Wish the "back in stock" email EVER worked - not that it looks like they've ever been back in stock.
Please god keep the specialist 6/8/10/godpleasedon'tstartanother6pagesofdebate mm scale stuff coming, GW. And then, BFG please.
I gotta say - the Titanicus and AI model kits have been my absolute favorite of the last few years. So much fun to build, such incredible detail, so much presence. Really, to any would-be-collectors out there - you really should bite. I hope the Thunderhawk creates renewed hope for this game. To lose these sprues and the lessons I'm sure their team has learned along the way would be heartbreaking.
Lastly - give me plastic or give me death. I've bought the resin releases thus far, but god it's inferior in every way.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I liked the good old days back when GW didn’t try to pretend a weapon swap was a completely unique unit with a completely daft special name all of its own.
I wish I could exalt that several more times. QFT
If those are the only 2 flyers for crons, any chance they'll do necron ground assets like they did for tau?
axotl wrote: I fear these Necron crafts are definitely Resin, especially this soon after the previous box release. Though I'm suprised there aren't any Eldar FW releases, which is what I assumed was next. I definitely let the rumors get to me, though I still suspect we're roughly at the end of plastic releases. God I hope I'm wrong.
Lastly - give me plastic or give me death. I've bought the resin releases thus far, but god it's inferior in every way.
The arcticle said they was FW models, so resin ahoy. The biggest question is, will necrons be an FW only faction??
If it is, then the claim of 5 factions only holds true, as there will be only 5 factions coming from GW.
axotl wrote: I fear these Necron crafts are definitely Resin, especially this soon after the previous box release. Though I'm suprised there aren't any Eldar FW releases, which is what I assumed was next. I definitely let the rumors get to me, though I still suspect we're roughly at the end of plastic releases. God I hope I'm wrong.
Lastly - give me plastic or give me death. I've bought the resin releases thus far, but god it's inferior in every way.
The arcticle said they was FW models, so resin ahoy. The biggest question is, will necrons be an FW only faction??
If it is, then the claim of 5 factions only holds true, as there will be only 5 factions coming from GW.
I don't think that holds true really. They've still developed a 6th faction even if the models themselves aren't going to be plastic. I don't remember the rumour saying anything about them coming from GW or not, just there would be only 5 factions/the games now being abandoned after Space Marines.
axotl wrote: I fear these Necron crafts are definitely Resin, especially this soon after the previous box release. Though I'm suprised there aren't any Eldar FW releases, which is what I assumed was next. I definitely let the rumors get to me, though I still suspect we're roughly at the end of plastic releases. God I hope I'm wrong.
Lastly - give me plastic or give me death. I've bought the resin releases thus far, but god it's inferior in every way.
The arcticle said they was FW models, so resin ahoy. The biggest question is, will necrons be an FW only faction??
If it is, then the claim of 5 factions only holds true, as there will be only 5 factions coming from GW.
Specialist Games is part of Forge World, so all of Aeronautica Imperialis is from forge world. These might be resin, but I don’t think that would mean they wouldn’t be counted as factions for whatever rumour you’re discussing, as they’re no different to the other factions from a design perspective.
axotl wrote: I fear these Necron crafts are definitely Resin, especially this soon after the previous box release. Though I'm suprised there aren't any Eldar FW releases, which is what I assumed was next. I definitely let the rumors get to me, though I still suspect we're roughly at the end of plastic releases. God I hope I'm wrong.
Lastly - give me plastic or give me death. I've bought the resin releases thus far, but god it's inferior in every way.
The arcticle said they was FW models, so resin ahoy. The biggest question is, will necrons be an FW only faction??
If it is, then the claim of 5 factions only holds true, as there will be only 5 factions coming from GW.
Specialist Games is part of Forge World, so all of Aeronautica Imperialis is from forge world. These might be resin, but I don’t think that would mean they wouldn’t be counted as factions for whatever rumour you’re discussing, as they’re no different to the other factions from a design perspective.
I don't know if GW have ever used the term "models from Forge World" to mean anything other than "resin models from FW", if they have I'd be surprised.
If these are from FW resin it'll be a shame because the price will likely be insane and it'll be less likely to see people actually buy in. The plastic AI kits are already pretty damned expensive for what they are (at least out here).
To ask it in a different way, Do forgeworld sell ANY products they make in plastic? I have never seen any plastic produducts from them, but then again, i only visit that site maybe 2-3 times a year.
If they dont sell plastic products, then they wont start with these necrons, aka they will be resin and the price will be very high.
I’m not disagreeing that the Necrons are likely to be resin. I’m disagreeing with the idea that this still means that there’s only 5 factions for that rumour.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I liked the good old days back when GW didn’t try to pretend a weapon swap was a completely unique unit with a completely daft special name all of its own.
What good old days were these? Space Marine and Guard vehicles have always followed this convention. Everything from Dreadnoughts to Baneblades were unique units based solely on weapon loadout that came with their own completely daft special names.
FrozenDwarf wrote: The article said they was FW models, so resin ahoy. The biggest question is, will necrons be an FW only faction??
There are currently only two aircraft for the Necrons so this will be an all Forge World release.
BFG is on different scale and majority of the "flyers" are space ship made for space combat, with very few of the smaller ship suitable for atmospheric combat, Space Marine being the only notable faction with those kind of ship.
Racerguy180 wrote: Yeah an Astartes Battle Barge big enuff to handle an AI scale Thawk would be the size of a sheet of plywood...minimum.
Took the measurements of the canon BFG ships and calculated how big they would be scaled down to "Titanicus Scale".
A Cobra Class Destroyer would be more than 5.5 metres long, and these are some of the smallest ships you can get. A Battle Barge in that scale could probably allow you to walk comfortably inside of it with some legroom.
Experience a deeper dogfighting experience with detailed expanded damage rules, new Ace abilities, and the challenges of limited ammunition. Novice and experienced commanders alike can use these rules to revolutionise their Aeronautica Imperialis games across a suite of new matched play scenarios.
I know it was expected but I'm not thrilled that Necrons don't get plastic shinies. In fact I think words have yet to be invented to express just how meh that is.
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
It's nice that we're getting a compendium though. Hopefully it'll help people get into the game easier.
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
I dunno how interested I am in the Necrons given that FW is handling them. I don't mind dealing with resin, but the pricing is going to be horrendous.
FW currently charge $74AUD for only 2 Vulture Gunships, so if you need maybe 8-ish aircraft to build a minimalist Necron squadron that's like, $300-ish AUD.
I don't mind FW too much for specialist aircraft, but for a whole squadron the pricing is probably going to be too much to be enticing.
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
In 2022, the only basis you need to deny a fact is that you don't want it to be true
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
I dunno how interested I am in the Necrons given that FW is handling them. I don't mind dealing with resin, but the pricing is going to be horrendous.
FW currently charge $74AUD for only 2 Vulture Gunships, so if you need maybe 8-ish aircraft to build a minimalist Necron squadron that's like, $300-ish AUD.
I don't mind FW too much for specialist aircraft, but for a whole squadron the pricing is probably going to be too much to be enticing.
The crossonts are probably less complex kits than the vultures, so I could see them being a 3 pack for the same price, and the bombers as 2 packs for the same price.
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
I dunno how interested I am in the Necrons given that FW is handling them. I don't mind dealing with resin, but the pricing is going to be horrendous.
FW currently charge $74AUD for only 2 Vulture Gunships, so if you need maybe 8-ish aircraft to build a minimalist Necron squadron that's like, $300-ish AUD.
I don't mind FW too much for specialist aircraft, but for a whole squadron the pricing is probably going to be too much to be enticing.
The crossonts are probably less complex kits than the vultures, so I could see them being a 3 pack for the same price, and the bombers as 2 packs for the same price.
It says in the article "Each set contains two planes buildable as either Night Shroud bombers or Doom Scythe fighters" and as they will be buildable as both I wouldn't be surprised by the high price
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
I dunno how interested I am in the Necrons given that FW is handling them. I don't mind dealing with resin, but the pricing is going to be horrendous.
FW currently charge $74AUD for only 2 Vulture Gunships, so if you need maybe 8-ish aircraft to build a minimalist Necron squadron that's like, $300-ish AUD.
I don't mind FW too much for specialist aircraft, but for a whole squadron the pricing is probably going to be too much to be enticing.
The crossonts are probably less complex kits than the vultures, so I could see them being a 3 pack for the same price, and the bombers as 2 packs for the same price.
It says in the article "Each set contains two planes buildable as either Night Shroud bombers or Doom Scythe fighters" and as they will be buildable as both I wouldn't be surprised by the high price
I missed the dual kit thing, if that's the case I think we'd be lucky if it were "only" $74AUD for a set.
With these and the upcoming Eldar releases for 40K, my buddy will be completely broke. I should talk...I'm planning on getting all the Necron flyers...
weird to me that they are only doing the doom scythe and night shroud... but not the night scythe which would be pretty easy to do with the doom scythe.
Is the cockpit is just a Falcon chassis without the turret?
Yes. Always have been ^^.
The necrons... well, being FW-only for everything they might as well not exist over here, so nothing to see. The Vampire probably the same, but having plastic stuff might make some eldar players actually buy them from FW.
chaos0xomega wrote: weird to me that they are only doing the doom scythe and night shroud... but not the night scythe which would be pretty easy to do with the doom scythe.
chaos0xomega wrote: weird to me that they are only doing the doom scythe and night shroud... but not the night scythe which would be pretty easy to do with the doom scythe.
Im so pleased about the Vampires. Was worried when they werent in the card pack. Shame they are likely resin - not due to material but due to volume i want to buy!
Necrons look cool but as discussed the cost of resin makes them difficult to impulse buy.
They were said when revealed to be from Forgeworld, so we did.
When I told people this, both online and in person, the hot Denial that I got out of this release was particularly pungent. People refused to believe that Forgeworld would handle the Necron fliers.
Denial? They literally said it right there in the article where they first announced them, what basis would anyone have for denying it?
I dunno how interested I am in the Necrons given that FW is handling them. I don't mind dealing with resin, but the pricing is going to be horrendous.
FW currently charge $74AUD for only 2 Vulture Gunships, so if you need maybe 8-ish aircraft to build a minimalist Necron squadron that's like, $300-ish AUD.
I don't mind FW too much for specialist aircraft, but for a whole squadron the pricing is probably going to be too much to be enticing.
The crossonts are probably less complex kits than the vultures, so I could see them being a 3 pack for the same price, and the bombers as 2 packs for the same price.
It says in the article "Each set contains two planes buildable as either Night Shroud bombers or Doom Scythe fighters" and as they will be buildable as both I wouldn't be surprised by the high price
I know that the release of the Astartes planes in plastic gave new hope that AI was not being discontinued, but following up with FW only releases of a new faction (Necron) and significant expansion of Eldar along with a wrap up companion book instead of a dedicated campaign book makes me very worried that AI is about done.
Lord of Deeds wrote: I know that the release of the Astartes planes in plastic gave new hope that AI was not being discontinued, but following up with FW only releases of a new faction (Necron) and significant expansion of Eldar along with a wrap up companion book instead of a dedicated campaign book makes me very worried that AI is about done.
I kind of agree with this. AI seems to be being put into maintenance mode. I feared this would happen for a while, as buzz quickly died off after the first box was released and the Tau box didn't really revive it. The SM/Eldar release did generate more buzz and online activity, but that seems to have died off.
I cant say if the game would have lasted longer in a "normal" time, but the pandemic disruptions definitely hurt AI's chances.
(My measure of buzz is entirely subjective and is based on level of third party site coverage, independent Battle Reports, level of discussion at places like Reddit and dakka, and things like that I could find. I admit I can't systematically quantify it.)
Lord of Deeds wrote: I know that the release of the Astartes planes in plastic gave new hope that AI was not being discontinued, but following up with FW only releases of a new faction (Necron) and significant expansion of Eldar along with a wrap up companion book instead of a dedicated campaign book makes me very worried that AI is about done.
I kind of agree with this. AI seems to be being put into maintenance mode. I feared this would happen for a while, as buzz quickly died off after the first box was released and the Tau box didn't really revive it. The SM/Eldar release did generate more buzz and online activity, but that seems to have died off.
I cant say if the game would have lasted longer in a "normal" time, but the pandemic disruptions definitely hurt AI's chances.
(My measure of buzz is entirely subjective and is based on level of third party site coverage, independent Battle Reports, level of discussion at places like Reddit and dakka, and things like that I could find. I admit I can't systematically quantify it.)
There's two sides to the 'buzz' coin. On the one hand, if a popular enough channel starts making content for it, or if someone at a hobby store starts bringing the stuff for a game and has a good pitch to sell people on it, people will start picking it up. On the other hand, if GW shows little interest in supporting their new game system, then it's unlikely to draw more attention.
As it stands, it's very likely that the products that are part of FW's line, like the new vampires and the necron ships, were very likely always going to be part of the FW side of things, since GW likely planned these things out even before the pandemic. Getting a Compendium out now, and making 'more advanced' rules, seems like too little too late, when people still don't have a firm mental image of what the regular rules are like.
Having played the game, it's not bad. Positioning and forethought are very important to how well you do, and there's strategic depth enough to attract even the crunchiest players. The kits themselves have all been a blast, but I'm using them as terrain decoration for Titanicus. The base dials are a little off-putting, and the only way to get decent maneuver tokens is if you buy one fo the box sets. If you buy the tokens separately, they're the thickness of printer paper and just as durable. The bases are separately manufactured in China and then thrown into the boxes in little pouches, and the flying stands often don't fit securely into those bases without glue.
All in all the game element of AI felt more like it was tacked onto some really great models, which is why there are many people that think that Epic will eventually come around, because the models for Aeronautica and Titanicus are just incredible, but at least on Aeronautica's part, it just doesn't feel like a complete or compelling game.
FrozenDwarf wrote: More resin. Why cant they just toss the whole game over the FW so we can at the same time get a proper core rule book....
Rules was written by FW Specialist Design Studio, GW probably has the saying on the general rule, but it's still up to the rule writer to flesh out the detail and make it interesting.
Well it's pretty obvious there aren't much passion put into this, down to the basic stuff like wrong name of faction equipment,rocket booster being put over wrong aircrafts, despite those info are widely available and took less than a minute of google search.
drbored wrote: Yeah, it's a bit sad but it feels like the Necron faction will just be a non-starter in AI.
But then, the game as a whole has had such a bumpy ride.
It's definitely the least popular specialist game. Just look at the activity on Dakka/Reddit/Facebook for AI compared to Necromunda, AT, or even Blood Bowl.
The necrons... well, being FW-only for everything they might as well not exist over here, so nothing to see.
I order from Forge World, it comes from Tennessee and sometimes arrives faster than GW orders. Why do you say it might as well not exist here? There's FW models on the table every weekend at my FLGS and Warhammer stores...
On the one hand, plenty of folks around here use FW models in their armies. On the other hand, convincing people to start a game where they'll be required to buy FW models is much more difficult than when they can just grab what they want off the shelf.
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lord_blackfang wrote: Sometimes even great models can't save a zero effort ruleset that was scribbled onto a napkin over a lunch break.
It's worse than that, the original rules were decent and just needed some tweaking, they were rewritten worse than the original.
To be honest they’re now doing what it needed at the start; a regular drumbeat of releases to keep it visible rather than big splash and nothing for months.
There's also the other option that the Heresy box production is currently hoovering up all of Specialist Games plastic production slots meaning they're having to push things out in resin.
I'm hoping the compendium book brings things back into line with how things were in 1st edition AI
zedmeister wrote: I'm hoping the compendium book brings things back into line with how things were in 1st edition AI
I'd love that, but I don't think it's going to happen. Also, even though I liked the old rules more, it did need some tweaking IMO.
GW really needed to make a rule set that was tight, competitive, and streamlined. I've heard the argument that GW wasn't trying to go after the X-Wing crowd, but I reckon they should have been. Relying on nice models to sell a game with sloppy rules is only ever going to get them so far.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Relying on nice models to sell a game with sloppy rules is only ever going to get them so far.
They've been doing that for decades. What makes AI special in that regard?
Lack of nerds who specifically like GW aircraft enough to buy them. I mean, I am one of those nerds, but I don't think my kind are widespread enough to support the product line. AI also doesn't have the nostalgia for a lot of folks like Blood Bowl, Titanicus or Necromunda have, so it's not winning on a lot of fronts that other GW products might win on.
GW really needed to make a rule set that was tight, competitive, and streamlined. I've heard the argument that GW wasn't trying to go after the X-Wing crowd, but I reckon they should have been.
Which is absolutely insane to me. X Wing briefly dethroned 40k as the top selling game. Then fans started dropping it because there's only so many new cards for the same ships that people will pay $30 for. It was the perfect time to take all those customers, many former GW customers, and bring them (back) into the GW ecosystem. All it would have taken was a good ruleset because the models and setting are fantastic.
I get what you're saying Skink, but at the same time GW just can't into good rules, and at this point I don't think it's because they don't know how or just aren't trying; I think it's genetic.
Either way, I'm just happy they made the big Eldar planes. It always feels wrong when significant parts of a roster are left out.
Toofast wrote: Then fans started dropping it because there's only so many new cards for the same ships that people will pay $30 for.
That and they then invalidated all the cards and asked them to buy new versions when they did X-Wing 2.0. That went down like a lead balloon.
Toofast wrote: I order from Forge World, it comes from Tennessee and sometimes arrives faster than GW orders. Why do you say it might as well not exist here? There's FW models on the table every weekend at my FLGS and Warhammer stores...
I haven't seen a FW mini on a gaming table in the last 25 years, not even when playing HH. And I worked in a GW store for 5 of those. So, I say it because of that.
Toofast wrote: I order from Forge World, it comes from Tennessee and sometimes arrives faster than GW orders. Why do you say it might as well not exist here? There's FW models on the table every weekend at my FLGS and Warhammer stores...
I haven't seen a FW mini on a gaming table in the last 25 years, not even when playing HH. And I worked in a GW store for 5 of those. So, I say it because of that.
It must vary a lot with location. At my local GW the manager himself owns a lot of FW models that find their way into the display cabinets and onto the tables, and there's at least a handful of people who frequently buy FW stuff.
But for many others even in the same area (the majority I would guess), FW is a bridge too far between the inconvenience, the resin, and the prices.
Toofast wrote: Then fans started dropping it because there's only so many new cards for the same ships that people will pay $30 for.
That and they then invalidated all the cards and asked them to buy new versions when they did X-Wing 2.0. That went down like a lead balloon.
Yup my group had everything that had come out until that point, ans we were like, pay something in the line of $300 just to upgrade our rules, for a game that's really maybe 2 pages of errata away from being perfect the way it is? Balls to that.
Very pleased to see the bigger eldar craft get some time to shine, I don't even mind so much if they're resin. Wonder what are the chances I'll need more than one of each when the roster is such a tight squeeze for Eldar anyway. I assume they'll have three structure points which will make them a viable choice over the smaller aircraft, phoenix bombers are tough to take currently.
GW really needed to make a rule set that was tight, competitive, and streamlined. I've heard the argument that GW wasn't trying to go after the X-Wing crowd, but I reckon they should have been.
Which is absolutely insane to me. X Wing briefly dethroned 40k as the top selling game.
No it didn't. It dethroned 40k on icv2, which is data compiled from American retailers and distributors only (technically theres a couple european distributors that operate on both sides of the pond, but mostly american anyway). It does not include GWs direct and online sales data, nor did it include sales data from Europe, Asia, Canada, etc.nor, critically, any data on GWs distribution as it was by that point insourcing distribution and cutting its contracts with Alliance. We know how much revenue Fantasy Flight games took in in revenue the year that X-Wing "dethroned" 40k, and the companies full revenue across all game and product lines was about 1/6-1/8th of GWs combined revenue (which at that time was probably almost entirely 40k based). See details here:
At the time that X-Wing peaked 40k on the icv2 charts, 40k was basically GWs only major product line as it came as WHFB was axed and AoS was just starting to be launched - I.E. we have a pretty good idea of how well 40k was selling. With some analysis of the half and full year financial reports from GW, we find that they brought in 175 million GBP during the 2015 calendar year, excluding December 2015 - dividing that number by 11 and adding it back in to try to account for the missing month, we get 191 million GBP for calendar 2015 - which may be undercounting it as there is presumably a revenue spike that coincides with the holidays. With some digging, Asmodee brought in 270 million EUR for the same calendar year, excluding acquisitions and mergers (Asmodee purchased FFG in 2014, so no X-Wings sales are included in that figure). Google tells me the average exchange rate for 2015 was 1GBP = 1.37 EUR, so multiply 191 x 1.37 means GW generated 263 million EUR in revenue.
So thats the basis of comparison - GW, which was mostly 40k at the time, at 263 million EUR vs Asmodee, which was X-Wing and a plethora of other games and brands, at 270 million EUR. Even if we assume only 90% of GWs revenue was attributable to 40k, thats still around 236 million EUR from 40k. I very much doubt that X-Wing generated 87.6% of Asmodees revenue in that calendar year.
In fact, we know that it probably didn't as Asmodees 2014 revenue, excluding mergers and acquisitions, was $175 million EUR - Asmodee also acquired Days of Wonder in the same year so we don't have a direct resource for what FFGs revenue on its own was, but Asmodees proforma revenue including both companies was 212 million EUR. Subtracting that from 175 million we get 37 million EUR - so in 2014 X-Wing generated 37 million EUR in revenue *at most*, assuming Days of Wonder generated 0 EUR in revenue and FFGs revenue was 100% sourced from X-Wing (which is basically impossible). Its highly unlikely that X-Wing sales multipliied 7x over the course of a year - which is basically what would need to happen for X-Wing to have outsold 40k, based on the very generous assumption that X-Wing fully accounted for that 37 million difference in revenue. Even if we assume that only half of GWs revenue was attributable to 40k (i.e. 131.5 million EUR), X-Wing would still need to have multiplied its sales 3.5x over the course of a year to match it - not impossible, but unlikely, and again based on an extremely generous assumption of what X-Wings sales actually were.
GW really needed to make a rule set that was tight, competitive, and streamlined. I've heard the argument that GW wasn't trying to go after the X-Wing crowd, but I reckon they should have been.
Which is absolutely insane to me. X Wing briefly dethroned 40k as the top selling game.
No it didn't.......
Regardless the point remains the same, that X wing was a popular game and to not go after that market at a time when X wing itself was weakening was a missed opportunity and could have made AI a popular game rather one than one where we're constantly wondering when GW is going to take it out back and put a bullet in its head.
Sneak peak from the upcoming book. Also mentioned are Nightshade Interceptors and Hemlock Wraithfighters as well as looted Ork aircrafte and Tau Gue'Vesa Auxiliary aircraft:
zedmeister wrote: Sneak peak from the upcoming book. Also mentioned are Nightshade Interceptors and Hemlock Wraithfighters as well as looted Ork aircrafte and Tau Gue'Vesa Auxiliary aircraft:
Cool - looks like the stuff that was in White Dwarf.
Aeronautica Imperialis – Companion is an expansion book for Aeronautica Imperialis games.
The perfect addition to any Aeronautica collection, it contains new rules, aircraft, and factions for games of Aeronautica Imperialis, as well as collating previously published content from White Dwarf magazine into one handy volume.
Inside you will find:
- Rules for fielding a Necrons force in games of Aeronautica Imperialis, including three aircraft profiles, along with upgrades and Ace Abilities
- Rules for fielding the full force of the Asuryani in games of Aeronautica Imperialis, including four all-new aircraft profiles: Vampire Raider; Vampire Hunter; Nightshade Interceptor, and Hemlock Wraithfighter.
- Rules for fielding all four Adeptus Astartes aircraft, collated in print for the first time
- A collection of aircraft profiles for existing factions not previously available in print, including the Marauder Pathfinder, Marauder Colossus, as well as rules for Looted aircraft for the Orks Air Waaagh! and Gue'Vesa Auxiliary aircraft rules for your T'au Air Caste
- New and exciting ways to play, including expanded damage rules, allowing for more detailed air combat, new Ace Abilities, Limited Ammunition rules and a dedicated set of matched play scenarios
- A suite of campaign rules allowing players to track the progress of their squadron over a series of games from rookies through to highly skilled Aces.
Please note that you will need a copy of the Aeronautica Imperialis rules in order to fully use the contents of this book.
"Please note that you will need a copy of the Aeronautica Imperialis rules in order to fully use the contents of this book."
They should have put the rules in the compendium if they really wanted to turn sales around. "Oh, you ONLY NEED ONE BOOK?? to properly play this game? Sign me the heck up!!"
"Please note that you will need a copy of the Aeronautica Imperialis rules in order to fully use the contents of this book."
They should have put the rules in the compendium if they really wanted to turn sales around. "Oh, you ONLY NEED ONE BOOK?? to properly play this game? Sign me the heck up!!"
I mean, they could of but chances are if you're even buying the compendium then you either previously bought one of the 3 previous starters, Rynn's World, or Taros books so reprinting the rules for what is being billed as a "supplement" just makes the book larger.
Plus they couldn't just reprint the core rules they'd also have to print the missions and all plane profiles for it to even be usable as a playable rules source.
Ugh overpriced with terrible handling. Doom scythe is okay I guess, Necron would have plenty of left over point for upgrade, assuming they have better upgrade than flare/chaff, ejector seat, extra armor.
Also Nightshade Interceptor and Hemlock Wraithfighter, nice.
I had held up my hopes of the Necron flyers being plastic until the end... damn. This is entirely on me of course, but still. So I guess IF we get Chaos at all it will be full FW resin... shame.
The book is great though, looking forward to picking it up next week.
"Please note that you will need a copy of the Aeronautica Imperialis rules in order to fully use the contents of this book."
They should have put the rules in the compendium if they really wanted to turn sales around. "Oh, you ONLY NEED ONE BOOK?? to properly play this game? Sign me the heck up!!"
It would be nice to have everything in one book. Once I saw I needed two separate books to play Imperial Navy I was instantly turned away.
GW in general has a problem with their games needing too many books to play.
I thought resin supposed to have superior detail than plastic but the larger resin necron pilot look infinitely worse than the tiny plastic grot. Does not look like a necron at all, look like Space Marine + Admech + Robocop.
Chopstick wrote: I thought resin supposed to have superior detail than plastic but the larger necron pilor look infinietly worse than the tiny plastic grot. Does not look like a necron at all, look like Space Marine + Admech + Robocop.
As a rule, resin holds detail far better than plastic...but despite all their technological achievement GW has not mastered this process. The GW plastics are still by and large superior to their resins. I'm looking at you, Macharius, Glaive and Venator tanks...
Now, in the hands of a company specializing in resin, this is completely true. Mierce, Kingdom Death, Volks, Work Shop Cast, Kaiyodo, Black Sun, Scale 75...all make superior resin miniatures. But to be fair, the Kingdom Death plastics are about as good as plastic can get.
Chopstick wrote: I thought resin supposed to have superior detail than plastic but the larger necron pilor look infinietly worse than the tiny plastic grot. Does not look like a necron at all, look like Space Marine + Admech + Robocop.
As a rule, resin holds detail far better than plastic...but despite all their technological achievement GW has not mastered this process. The GW plastics are still by and large superior to their resins.
In general that's not really true. The FWDKoK are more detailed and crisper than the plastic GWDKoK. Most FW stuff I own is noticeably sharper detailed than the GW plastics.
As for why the necron pilot looks mediocre, you'd have to ask the sculptor I guess. Maybe because if the pilot is one piece with the rest of the aircraft it had to be less detailed to avoid tearing up the moulds and masters too quickly? Or maybe they just did a sloppy job with it.
The new necron flyers being Forgeworld-only/Resin really does seem odd. Choosing to release a whole faction as resin is something that would likely lower sales even further and sort of implies they're not seen as a main faction for the game, but I don't think it necessarily implies that they're done with Aeronautica as miniatures are planned well in advance of being released (I think it was something like 2 - 3 years for plastic?), so that means the choice to not make them in plastic was made quite a while back. Maybe the Necron flyers are just too niche to have been seen as worthwhile in plastic?
Chopstick wrote: I thought resin supposed to have superior detail than plastic but the larger resin necron pilot look infinitely worse than the tiny plastic grot. Does not look like a necron at all, look like Space Marine + Admech + Robocop.
I agree. Should have just filled in the cockpit, it doesn't look great.
Unrelated, but the price point isn't terrible but it's not brilliant either? You'll only ever have four flyers at 150 points so £60 isn't the worst investment but given the fact I have around 200 points of Eldar and Marines, Necrons are probably only for the real fans of AI or they like Necrons.
GW in general has a problem with their games needing too many books to play.
That is by design. I would think they lose more money from people avoiding game systems because of book cost than they gain in profit from selling the whales an extra $30-50 book. I know when our local Warhammer store turned a blind eye to binders of rules, our Necromunda playerbase went from 0 to 25 people. Anecdotal but I have a feeling a lot more people would branch out into other game systems if they didn't require hundreds of dollars in books.
Looks good, wonder what the price will be. Also from the way it's written it looks like it'll be 2 separate kits rather than 1 kit you can make either way.
I'm a bit scared off from buying FW after my last order which was pretty crap quality.
Did anyone buy the companion? GW decided to make it direct only, so none of the local stores have it in stock. It's also just under the threshold for free shipping in Oz.
I originally thought it was a compilation of rules, but reading the description on the GW site it only contains rules for aircraft that weren't published somewhere else, so I guess we still need the campaign books to play a game?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Looks good, wonder what the price will be. Also from the way it's written it looks like it'll be 2 separate kits rather than 1 kit you can make either way.
I'm a bit scared off from buying FW after my last order which was pretty crap quality.
Last order I made, one piece was missing from a necron Doom Scythe. I called FW's customer service and they sent me another full blister free of charges including postal.
I'd say you really have no need to be afraid of anything. FW's customer service is still very good. I can tell you they don't bite at all.
Did anyone buy the companion? GW decided to make it direct only, so none of the local stores have it in stock. It's also just under the threshold for free shipping in Oz.
I originally thought it was a compilation of rules, but reading the description on the GW site it only contains rules for aircraft that weren't published somewhere else, so I guess we still need the campaign books to play a game?
Yup, I can confirm that the basic rules aren't included in the companion. You do need one of the campaign books.
chaos0xomega wrote: Some people will want both, simply because they try to have a large and varied collection.
Then buy two. Don't see what's the problem.
The only people wanting to have all the options are generally those using magnets and playing (because that's the main reason they want to change the weapons with the minimum models needed).
If it's for collection, you'll buy 2 aircrafts because it's for the sake of exposing the 2, not changing the weapons on a whim.
right, I was responding to your statement of "You'll want the vampire raider anyway" to imply that most people would only buy 1 of them. I was demonstrating that thats not true and there are plenty of people who will buy 2 instead.
chaos0xomega wrote: right, I was responding to your statement of "You'll want the vampire raider anyway" to imply that most people would only buy 1 of them. I was demonstrating that thats not true and there are plenty of people who will buy 2 instead.
My statement was for those who want to play (and optimize). Those are the ones using magnets to change weapons.
And I think they'll want to play the Raider anyway instead of the Hunter, simply because the first is way more versatile and useful in game. The latter isn't especially bad in itself (both vampire do remove the main weakness of eldars because of their high structure points), but everyone playing current ruleset of AI knows that it's better to use weapons rolling more dice...
Isn't the Hunter better in any mission that doesn't require a transport capacity?
He costs more and his weapons don't synergize very well, on the opposite of the raider with basic weapons.
Remember that you hit on 5+ at best in current AI. That's why the hunter's twin linked pulsars is a bit of a gamble.
I still don't have the companion, I was just guessing based on the old rules where both the Raider and Hunter had short to medium ranged weapons. What is the FPR and DMG of each of them? Have you checked the average damage output at each range? Sometimes what looks like poor synergy still results in better overall damage output.
Isn't the Hunter better in any mission that doesn't require a transport capacity?
He costs more and his weapons don't synergize very well, on the opposite of the raider with basic weapons.
Remember that you hit on 5+ at best in current AI. That's why the hunter's twin linked pulsars is a bit of a gamble.
I still don't have the companion, I was just guessing based on the old rules where both the Raider and Hunter had short to medium ranged weapons. What is the FPR and DMG of each of them? Have you checked the average damage output at each range? Sometimes what looks like poor synergy still results in better overall damage output.
The Raider definitely has more short range firepower and synergises well with the Asuryani playstyle so I can see this being the optimum choice as it's a tough transport with 14 shots at close range. The Hunter is more mid-ranged but I don't feel mid-range is where Asuryani shine. Weight of shots is key in the game, you'd be better off paying for a Hemlock to abuse its extra damage ability.
A little miffed that the Vampires are as pricey as they are. I get that it's a big bird and FW, but really?
Isn't the Hunter better in any mission that doesn't require a transport capacity?
He costs more and his weapons don't synergize very well, on the opposite of the raider with basic weapons.
Remember that you hit on 5+ at best in current AI. That's why the hunter's twin linked pulsars is a bit of a gamble.
I still don't have the companion, I was just guessing based on the old rules where both the Raider and Hunter had short to medium ranged weapons. What is the FPR and DMG of each of them? Have you checked the average damage output at each range? Sometimes what looks like poor synergy still results in better overall damage output.
The Raider definitely has more short range firepower and synergises well with the Asuryani playstyle so I can see this being the optimum choice as it's a tough transport with 14 shots at close range. The Hunter is more mid-ranged but I don't feel mid-range is where Asuryani shine. Weight of shots is key in the game, you'd be better off paying for a Hemlock to abuse its extra damage ability.
Fair enough, I guess the up side to GW botching the rules so one unit is clearly better than the other is it reduces the number of models you need to buy to make a flexible army.
Though I don't think it's great to have all your forces focused on the same range, especially when that range is short, as I reckon it's harder to keep all models in the same range than some models at medium and some models at short. As far as I'm aware there's no AoE effects in AI that would benefit you keeping models close together.
A little miffed that the Vampires are as pricey as they are. I get that it's a big bird and FW, but really?
By size, I think the pricing isn't bad for FW standards compared to other AI stuff (though I think it's maybe smaller than people are thinking, some of the images where the base looks photoshopped on makes the model look larger than it looks in the 3D view).
However, by points, I think you'd actually want 2 or 3 Vampires in a force, as Eldar suffer from rather poor points-per-structure, and the Vampires give a healthy boost of 5 structure for 33pts. And if you're buying 2 or 3 of them, the price is pretty painful. Based on what you guys have said I would want 2 Raiders and 1 Hunter if price wasn't an issue, but $222AUD for only ~100pts of models is a bit much.
Saw this photo size comparison on twitter. Didn’t realise how big the new ships actually are.
I often think that’s something GW miss in their product photos, and think they seem much better value once you see the size/bits in the kit, if not still on the expensive side.
Ac4155 wrote: Saw this photo size comparison on twitter. Didn’t realise how big the new ships actually are.
I often think that’s something GW miss in their product photos, and think they seem much better value once you see the size/bits in the kit, if not still on the expensive side.
Photo credit to @canyourollacrit on Twitter.
The Nightwing is one of the smaller aircraft to be using as a comparison.
But yeah, GW should show some squadron photos to get an idea of the relative size of aircraft.
They should really be using a Primaris marine as a comparison. I didn't know the size of the AI Thunderhawk until I saw it next to a marine. I have no clue how big that small Eldar craft is, so I'm still none the wiser as to the size of the larger one.
JWBS wrote: They should really be using a Primaris marine as a comparison. I didn't know the size of the AI Thunderhawk until I saw it next to a marine. I have no clue how big that small Eldar craft is, so I'm still none the wiser as to the size of the larger one.
I must be one of the few wargamers that doesn't own a single Primaris marine But yeah maybe it'd be nice to have them next to a 32mm scale model for comparison.
Just received my Vampires. Even after having seen the pictures, they are still bigger than I expected. And they are pretty.
Any chance of a picture of the components you get?
Can do that when I‘m home, probably taking a pic of the assembly guides. But it‘s not too exciting to see. The fuselage and wings is just one big part, with the guns, engine bits (to cover casting gates at the back) and vertical fins being separate (plus the missile array for the version where it‘s optional, but I don‘t see a reason to not glue it on).
Oh good, glad the fuselage is one piece. The old AI came in two pieces with the cockpit part seperate and with the resin gates positioned in such a way that you'd usually end up with an unsightly join across the top. And if you're as bad at filling as I am, it looked hideous and I ended up selling them...
Man I'm at my wits end with FW. Both mine came with bent or fully broken tips at the front. They must think I'm a scammer they get so many replacement requests from me. Killing me.
axotl wrote: Man I'm at my wits end with FW. Both mine came with bent or fully broken tips at the front. They must think I'm a scammer they get so many replacement requests from me. Killing me.
Show them a picture, it's enough proof.
Do the vampires come in blisters or boxes ? Was wondering given the size, even more now that I know the main body is in one piece.
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