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Titan's for the 30-40K era are basically ageless constructs. The rest of the armed forces appear to retain the same general organisational structure, but visually go through reasonably significant outward changes in design.

So for AT if they wanted to bring the 40K era style aircraft into the game they'd just advance the AT storyline by 10K years. Same as they'd likely do for adding Tyranids, Tau and Necrons. Orks and Eldar I believe they can add during the 30K era and - much like their Imperial counterparts, those titans would also be ageless in design.

The onyl ones that change through time significantly are the corrupted titans which become more twisted and demonic. However once/if gw releases a twisted demonic titan force it is, again, basically ageless..

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
So wait, they didn't have fire Raptors, thunderhawks, & Xiphons in 30k? Huh I always thought they did.

I think Fire Raptors are in 30k, but the rest of the Imperial planes are if I remember correctly different.

I thought there was fluff of Thunderbolts going back to 30k, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Thunderbolts are in the army list for the solar auxilia and cult militia, so they definitely existed.

I’d think given the ‘meh’ at best reaction to Aeronautica Imperialis, it’s far more likely that AI will get Squatted after this last release, than you’ll see Epic again. Locally, AI was dead on arrival, and you have to special order it - not being carried as a stock item in my three closest independent GW retailers.

Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

Has there been any indication at all about how well aeronautica has done so far?

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

Right. I guess the strategic benefit is to spend lots of money developing a game and tooling plastic kits for a game no one plays and stores don’t carry to keep the people away from someone else’s game


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Has there been any indication at all about how well aeronautica has done so far?

GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.

 totalfailure wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

Right. I guess the strategic benefit is to spend lots of money developing a game and tooling plastic kits for a game no one plays and stores don’t carry to keep the people away from someone else’s game

You say that, but in the past they sunk a lot of time, money and goodwill to try and screw a perceived competitor. (Chapterhouse)

GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.

They're also reporting that Titanicus is going to have aircraft and ground units added, which doesn't really seem to make much sense. Half the Aeronautica line effectively gets abandoned without more being added to the game itself, the other half gets stuck ontop of a completely different game?

They seem to report all sorts of different rumours no matter how baseless or wild, though.

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

Good luck to GW on that one...

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Has there been any indication at all about how well aeronautica has done so far?

GW will never release sales figures on an individual product line. They just disappear, with no further support. Check out some of the rumor mongers on Faeit 212. They are reporting similar things - the Marine/Eldar wave might well be the last for the game.

They're also reporting that Titanicus is going to have aircraft and ground units added, which doesn't really seem to make much sense. Half the Aeronautica line effectively gets abandoned without more being added to the game itself, the other half gets stuck ontop of a completely different game?

They seem to report all sorts of different rumours no matter how baseless or wild, though.

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

If that was their goal they should have put more effort into making the rules not suck.

As it is, I think a large chunk of people who collect AI are collectors more than gamers, while for X-wing people are more likely to get into it for the game.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.

It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

If that was their goal they should have put more effort into making the rules not suck.

As it is, I think a large chunk of people who collect AI are collectors more than gamers, while for X-wing people are more likely to get into it for the game.

I would mostly agree with this, base on my own anechdotal evidence.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Jack Flask wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.

People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.

Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.

To be fair, this depends on the sculpt and design, etc. In my own case, I design and sell 3d printable 28mm terrain, but I've had customers scale down some of the designs to 6/8mm AT scale and the results were stunning. Obviously some details get lost/disappear, but not anything that you would really miss at that scale.

Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.

IIRC the original AI minis were all sculpted by hand, I recall seeing masters/sculpt in progress photos of some of the aircraft at a Games Day or posted online somewhere.

 Theophony wrote:

Rumors come from people making gak up so they can drive clicks and web traffic to their sites or get 15 minutes of internet fame.

FTFY. Very few rumors are actually being generated by a reliable source thats in the know, the recent rumor dump that has been almost entirely spot-on is a rare exception these days (apparently - or else they took some very very very good guesses).

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

#doubt. AI exists to diversify product lines and drive sales volume. This is a hobby where sales are primarily generated from new product releases (churn, if you will) and not from legacy products sitting on store shelves. GW isn't producing games like this to "keep people in the fold" or stop people from going to competitors - as far as GW is concerned they have no competitors. GW produces stuff like AI to fill up its release schedule and give middle class nerds something new to spend their money on every week. That is GWs entire business model and why they operate the way they do.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Jack Flask wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:yes, not just that but GW/FW sculptors have explained in the past that that is not how digital sculpting works and they have to recreate 90%+ of the models from scratch at each different scale.

People can even test this at home if they have a 3D printer. Take a full 28Heroic/32mm scale file and print it at 25% size without any changes, then see how well the detail and strength of the model holds up.

Or take it the other way and print it at 4× and see how ridiculous the proportions and how chunky the “fine” details look. It’s like the old school Forge World busts they used to do; the icons on marine shoulder pads were designed to look like sheet metal dished into shape then affixed with screws; those sheets and details would disappear if scaled down, and trying to maintain them requires them to be exaggerated or it will compromise the sculpt.

To be fair, this depends on the sculpt and design, etc. In my own case, I design and sell 3d printable 28mm terrain, but I've had customers scale down some of the designs to 6/8mm AT scale and the results were stunning. Obviously some details get lost/disappear, but not anything that you would really miss at that scale.

Given the old AI was only slightly smaller than the current AI, I imagine they could scale up the Hellblade, Hell Talon and Harbinger without too much reworking.
We're only talking a 30% increase in size on a kit that used to be resin and now would become plastic. I'm not saying there'd be *no* work to adapt it, but having to recreate 90% would be a massive exaggeration. More difficult would be adapting it from resin (where undercuts are allowed) to plastic, from memory the Hellblade for AI was a single piece model.
I don't know whether GW would have CAD on those models, maybe, I think that was roughly when they started using CAD. From memory the Valkyrie was a CAD model and that predates AI.

IIRC the original AI minis were all sculpted by hand, I recall seeing masters/sculpt in progress photos of some of the aircraft at a Games Day or posted online somewhere.

 Theophony wrote:

Rumors come from people making gak up so they can drive clicks and web traffic to their sites or get 15 minutes of internet fame.

FTFY. Very few rumors are actually being generated by a reliable source thats in the know, the recent rumor dump that has been almost entirely spot-on is a rare exception these days (apparently - or else they took some very very very good guesses).

 Easy E wrote:
Except AI's job isn't to sell a ton. It is to keep people from going to X-wing. This keeps them in the GW fold.
It is a strategic benefit to keep it around.

#doubt. AI exists to diversify product lines and drive sales volume. This is a hobby where sales are primarily generated from new product releases (churn, if you will) and not from legacy products sitting on store shelves. GW isn't producing games like this to "keep people in the fold" or stop people from going to competitors - as far as GW is concerned they have no competitors. GW produces stuff like AI to fill up its release schedule and give middle class nerds something new to spend their money on every week. That is GWs entire business model and why they operate the way they do.

You mind fixing your quotes, I don't think I have ever said that and when I click the link it sure doesn't say that where you drew the quote from.

Well, in the Kirby years, GW moved away from a diversified line of products. That is when competitors like X-wing, War Machines, Flames of War, Infinity, and other competitors grew. They grew so much, that according to the (flawed) top 5 rankings that GW's dominance was actually being challenged.

Then, the Kirby years ended, and GW started releasing new games other than the big two; and lo and behold they are on top again.

Sometimes, it is better to maintain your monopoly in a niche and lose a few bucks on a line, than to lose your monopoly in the first place.

This is a matter of history, as AI, AT, Necro, BB, etc are NOT where the company is making money. However, they also do not want to lose customers into other miniature segments, so it is better to keep them all in house so to speak.

GW's biggest asset seems to be the 40k brand itself. The more they can push that, the bigger it becomes, and the more they can get away with doing with it.
So, having specialist games with the 40k theme fill gaps players might like more than the 40k game.

Nice scale comparison between old and new TH https://www.instagram.com/p/CV739-_lL48/

And the old thunderhawk was already a beast.

JWBS wrote:
Nice scale comparison between old and new TH https://www.instagram.com/p/CV739-_lL48/

Not as much bigger as I thought it would be.

I do think that the Thunderhawk is one model that has gotten progressively less cool as time has gone on. The previous one with the birdcage canopy looked better to me, and the one previous to that with the large single wind shield looked even better again.

*remembers the original Flying Brick*
Yeah, no, even nostalgia goggles aren’t quite up to making that look good.

Personally I just want someone to make an AI scaled detailed interior pack and replacement transparent canopy.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
*remembers the original Flying Brick*
Yeah, no, even nostalgia goggles aren’t quite up to making that look good.

All versions have been flying bricks

I think it's mainly the flush mounted canopy I don't like.

EDIT: Actually, I forgot there was a Thunderhawk before the one I'm thinking about. The one I like isn't the very original, it's the one Forge World made of metal in the mid to late 90's. The one before that genuinely did look like a flying brick, lol.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
*remembers the original Flying Brick*
Yeah, no, even nostalgia goggles aren’t quite up to making that look good.

All versions have been flying bricks

I think it's mainly the flush mounted canopy I don't like.

EDIT: Actually, I forgot there was a Thunderhawk before the one I'm thinking about. The one I like isn't the very original, it's the one Forge World made of metal in the mid to late 90's. The one before that genuinely did look like a flying brick, lol.

Well, the original was this:

I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Nice scale comparison between old and new TH https://www.instagram.com/p/CV739-_lL48/

Not as much bigger as I thought it would be.

I do think that the Thunderhawk is one model that has gotten progressively less cool as time has gone on. The previous one with the birdcage canopy looked better to me, and the one previous to that with the large single wind shield looked even better again.

I agree. I think the canopy, the tail and the front mounted weapon changes all make it seem less like a very sturdy, bulky, heavily armoured gunship.

Several times Forgeworld have re-designed vehicles in a way that lost some of the coolness of the original design. The Lightning is another one. Would have much preferred the original designs (or even alternative parts) for Aeronautica.

 Dysartes wrote:
I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.

Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.

Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.

Imperial planes fly by the same principles that ork ones do anyways (belief ), so...

 Albertorius wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'd love to see FW do a modern version of that sculpt, though as something different to a Thunderhawk - a flier with crenelations would be quite cool, if impractical.

Dark Angels took the storm talon and came up with the dark talon with a shrine on the back. The original flying brick could be redone as what happens when the Black Templars/ I Fists redesign the Stormwolf transport.

Imperial planes fly by the same principles that ork ones do anyways (belief ), so...

But Ork ones are way more aerodynamical.

I’ve always found it an irony that the Ork flyers are actually the closest to being aerodynamically functional designs!

 Jadenim wrote:
I’ve always found it an irony that the Ork flyers are actually the closest to being aerodynamically functional designs!

In the whole setting, honestly: the tau ships are bs, particularly the ones not from FW, and the eldars are... well, those might be able to fly, I guess, but the undercuts in all attack surfaces would certainly make them "fun" to fly.

Something tells me that wraithbone on eldar flyers generates some sort of field that basically turns the aerodynamics into that of a bumblebee.

Orks being actually most aerodynamic makes sense form follow function for them. Mek wants to build fighta, builds a mig15-7 doesn't go fast enuff, straps another engine on it and paints it red and you now have something that actually is an effective aerial combat vehicle.

Imperial take on aerodynamics is make everything a tank(Astartes wise) first then make it fly by sheer force of thrust.