AllSeeingSkink wrote: Not a fan of the new Eldar aircraft aesthetic compared to the classic ones.
Wonder if they'll be resin or plastic.
What do you mean? Compared to the epic versions?
I think he means the older FW style Eldar aircraft rather than the Hemlock and Crimson Hunter.
Yeah, exactly, the Nightwing and Pheonix look sleek and deadly, the Hemlock and Crimson Hunter give me the same chibi vibes that a lot of GW's aircraft do.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wouldn't it be funny ifthe FW craft were plastic and the GW craft were resin?
Not really, no.
The new Eldar stuff looks awesome, just wish it was all plastic. Obviously a much greater initial cost than resin but if (l assume) they will be doing HH epic then following it up later with epic 40k then its not as bad. They may do that later on, using resin as a placeholder. There ar e a few examples now if fw resin getting the plastic treatment; Cataphracti and Tartaros armour, older PA marks, Krieg etc
lord_blackfang wrote: Wouldn't it be funny ifthe FW craft were plastic and the GW craft were resin?
Not really, no.
The new Eldar stuff looks awesome, just wish it was all plastic.
Yeah, I want a Vampire, but the pricetag is significantly more compared to a Thunderhawk, and on top of the price increase you need to deal with resin. If the new Eldar craft are plastic, that's a buy. If they're resin (which is likely), that's a hard pass
I really didn't expect to see these, as these are the first "Citadel" flyers to be included in Aeronautica. All the other flyers have been Forge World models.
Even Space Marines didn't get Stormhawks or Stormravens.
Yeah, exactly, the Nightwing and Pheonix look sleek and deadly, the Hemlock and Crimson Hunter give me the same chibi vibes that a lot of GW's aircraft do.
That is due to limitations of GW plastic design in 40k leading to that awful chibi/boxy style. The marine ones are the worse... Valkyrie was a bizarre and good exception!
Yeah, exactly, the Nightwing and Pheonix look sleek and deadly, the Hemlock and Crimson Hunter give me the same chibi vibes that a lot of GW's aircraft do.
That is due to limitations of GW plastic design in 40k leading to that awful chibi/boxy style. The marine ones are the worse... Valkyrie was a bizarre and good exception!
That's cause it was originally a Forgeworld design
The main studio Space Marine flyers are definitely the most terrible looking.
zedmeister wrote: That'd be the Dakkajet (which replaced the old FW Fighta)
True, I guess there is a difference there. I dismissed it out of hand along with the Valkyrie based on them having had FW models (well, technically as you said a "fighta" for Orks rather than a Dakkajet).
Soundtheory wrote: Dangit, guess I won’t be collecting Eldar. FW is a non-starter for me, and most of the faction is now resin releases.
The Nightwings and Phoenixes are still pretty cool and reasonably good value at 6 per pack.
Depends what you want in your force though, I think a couple of Vampires are important to get the hull point count up a bit and also provide transport.
I don't know what role these new fighters have versus the Nightwings and Phoenixes, I still haven't bought the compendium which has their rules, bloody GW making it direct only.
Phoenix come in 3 pack, not 6, not a good value at all.
Hemlock cost 26 for 3 bright lance shot with 3+ extra damage, probably the best fighter in the game, no special rule for psychic power.
Nightshade (aka Crimson Hunter) cost 25 for 4 Throttle, generic bright lance profile, the illustrated picture for it on the card is wrong, also missing pulse laser weapons on the profile, because rule writer, who worked at GW, never look at rules or model of a crimson hunter.
Not many reason to take nightshade over Nightwing.
I'm wondering if the original 30K one is new enough to have been a 3D sculpt, and they 'just' resized it.
Doesn't work that way. You can do it if you're 3d printing but in terms of production casting it creates issues. GW sculptors have said on multiple occasions that they have to resculpt everything for each scale.
chaos0xomega wrote: Doesn't work that way. You can do it if you're 3d printing but in terms of production casting it creates issues. GW sculptors have said on multiple occasions that they have to resculpt everything for each scale.
GW sculptors might say that, I don't really believe them I'm sure some stuff does need to be remade from scratch, but you'll struggle to convince me that you can't edit a 32mm scale aircraft down to 8mm scale far quicker than it would be to make it from scratch. Even if you just import it and set it to a reference body to sketch over it's going to be much quicker than making something from nothing. But I'd be surprised if they can't scale it down and resize panel lines, delete overly fine detail, maybe resketch some detail that they want to keep but won't work in its original state.
Also a lot of the aircraft would be well suited would be well suited to CAD (vs facet body sculpting) and a well made CAD model wouldn't take long to rescale... though I have no idea if GW have that capacity.
In my professional life I've had to take very complex 3D models and simplify them down in order to do computer simulations that use spatial discretisation and so can't cope with the complexity. It might feel like I'm remaking everything from scratch but in reality that initial overly complex makes it way quicker than drawing something up from scratch (for example creating a 3D model from drawings).
Doesn't work that way. You can do it if you're 3d printing but in terms of production casting it creates issues. GW sculptors have said on multiple occasions that they have to resculpt everything for each scale.
That's not quite what they said. They have to review the full model and make various adjustments; as some pieces of detail don't carry over clearly when shrunk to 1/4 size, plus resin and plastic molds require slightly different ways to divide up components for casting. However a 28mm-scale CAD model is certainly a lot quicker to translate to a smaller scale than handing Chris Drew some calipers and the resin model!
With the Ares gunship being a 2019 model I have no doubt it was originally CAD designed and therefore fairly quickly adapted into Aeronautica.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I supposed they're saving cooler stuff like Chaos for a bigger relase, with more budget allocated to it
Not even Necron deserve plastic, future of the game is still uncertain but one thing is that with custodes the plastic stuff will remain for store for a while so hoard some before they're gone.
That is actually very cute. I'd have a full size one for my Custodes if it weren't $517! But you never know maybe one day we'll get it in plastic along with a plastic Thunderhawk.
Looks pretty cool. Has a 1960s - 70s scifi pulp vibe to it. Like one of the Cold War era whacky aeroplanes that never quite made it beyond the testing phase.
I find the fact they are doing custodes for aeronautica absolutely bizarre. Are there not countless other factions that are more likely to have active aircraft?
Olthannon wrote: Looks pretty cool. Has a 1960s - 70s scifi pulp vibe to it. Like one of the Cold War era whacky aeroplanes that never quite made it beyond the testing phase.
I find the fact they are doing custodes for aeronautica absolutely bizarre. Are there not countless other factions that are more likely to have active aircraft?
Otoh it's 1 ship so quick faction. Fw is atm "bit" busy due to hh2 so not surpring smaller games have slower period. Chaos probably need more than 1 kit
Olthannon wrote: Looks pretty cool. Has a 1960s - 70s scifi pulp vibe to it. Like one of the Cold War era whacky aeroplanes that never quite made it beyond the testing phase.
I find the fact they are doing custodes for aeronautica absolutely bizarre. Are there not countless other factions that are more likely to have active aircraft?
Otoh it's 1 ship so quick faction. Fw is atm "bit" busy due to hh2 so not surpring smaller games have slower period. Chaos probably need more than 1 kit
AdCustodes also have the Orion dropship though, so I don't think they are going to stop at the Ares.
That's actually a pretty cool gunship, it's definitely resin and will be expensive though. Plus side is you wouldn't need many of them since they cost more pts.
The Custodes flyer though... I... I just don't know what it's meant to be. I had to re-check the first picture at one point as I wasn't sure which end was the front. There's futuristic flyer, and then there's whatever that thing is meant to be. Such a weird design.
The Custodes flyer though... I... I just don't know what it's meant to be. I had to re-check the first picture at one point as I wasn't sure which end was the front. There's futuristic flyer, and then there's whatever that thing is meant to be. Such a weird design.
I don't think it's a weird design, seems like they are going for early scifi sky captain of futurama retrofuturistic aesthetic. Having looked on Forge World, all their vehicles look like that. I love it myself, fits the theme for the army.
Thank you for putting the Stormhawk in a tag though. That abomination should be purged from existence. It looks like it was made out of the spares after the kit was put together for another model.
Olthannon wrote: Thank you for putting the Stormhawk in a tag though. That abomination should be purged from existence. It looks like it was made out of the spares after the kit was put together for another model.
Hang on - which version of the kit do you believe to be the abomination? The Stormhawk Interceptor, or the Stormtalon Gunship?
I can buy someone thinking the Stormtalon is an abomination, but I quite like the Stormhawk.
Olthannon wrote: Thank you for putting the Stormhawk in a tag though. That abomination should be purged from existence. It looks like it was made out of the spares after the kit was put together for another model.
Hang on - which version of the kit do you believe to be the abomination? The Stormhawk Interceptor, or the Stormtalon Gunship?
I can buy someone thinking the Stormtalon is an abomination, but I quite like the Stormhawk.
This wee horror show. Although it does amuse me that it has two assault cannons on the front. That is the one redeeming feature.
It's as if they went "You know what's a great looking aircraft? The Warthog A10. Now that is the kind of ground attack we can all enjoy. Do you know what the Space Marines should have? That but let's make it look as if a Warthog got shagged by a brick and they spawn this homunculus ".
The lascannons are fixed but the autocannons can pivot? What?
It seems like a sorta baffling choice for AI, it's a nice model but like with grey knights, I would have though this would be the last faction you'd see for AI.
Agreed. Not a fan of Marines chibiflyers, but I do find something aesthetically appealing in the design of the Stormhawk. The Stormwolf is also okay as a sort of lighter version of the Caestus (RIP), and the Corvus Blackstar is a slightly(!) more generally aerodynamic take on Marine flyers. Otherwise, the only truly good marine flyer design is the Xiphon.
Forgot that one existed. Remove the gothic architecture from it and its decent, otherwise I find the gothic arch detailing to be a bit much.
Is this the Land Speeder Vengeance or the Nephilim fighter?
The Nephilim is great, even though that just appears to be the Imperial Navy fighter.
I like both although the Vengeance just doesn't need the crew poking out like donkey-caves.
Really donkey-caves is out? I can say bastard poo licker but not donkey-cave?
Forgot that one existed. Remove the gothic architecture from it and its decent, otherwise I find the gothic arch detailing to be a bit much.
Is this the Land Speeder Vengeance or the Nephilim fighter?
The Nephilim is great, even though that just appears to be the Imperial Navy fighter.
I like both although the Vengeance just doesn't need the crew poking out like donkey-caves.
Did anyone ever figure out where that marine’s legs were supposed to go? The front gunner on the Vengeance, I mean. His feet really should be dangling out the bottom….
Seriously, every time I see one I want to pull it apart and put the gunner back in the gunner’s seat in the cockpit next to the pilot. Hell, even if you don’t move the gun it would look 100% better.
I have seen some great conversions where people just plug an armoured cupola over the Primaris landspeeder and it looks great. Same with the scout walker.
Olthannon wrote: Thank you for putting the Stormhawk in a tag though. That abomination should be purged from existence. It looks like it was made out of the spares after the kit was put together for another model.
Hang on - which version of the kit do you believe to be the abomination? The Stormhawk Interceptor, or the Stormtalon Gunship?
I can buy someone thinking the Stormtalon is an abomination, but I quite like the Stormhawk.
Spoiler:
This wee horror show. Although it does amuse me that it has two assault cannons on the front. That is the one redeeming feature.
It's as if they went "You know what's a great looking aircraft? The Warthog A10. Now that is the kind of ground attack we can all enjoy. Do you know what the Space Marines should have? That but let's make it look as if a Warthog got shagged by a brick and they spawn this homunculus ".
The lascannons are fixed but the autocannons can pivot? What?
I get Apache/Havoc/Hind references. It's a VTOL/helicopter, with jets instead of blades.
Or it's dead and GW keep beating it to squeeze a few book sales out of it?
But, cool, I'll probably grab it (assuming it's not direct only or whatever shenanigans GW want to pull with it). The game really is in need of a proper centralised rulebook, I'm guessing this isn't it though.
If Aeronautica wasn't locked into hexes I'd give it a shot.
You could use the old manoeuvre templates and play it without the squares, treating 1 point of movement as 2" instead of 1 square, but you might need to tweak some of the manoeuvrability values.
People used to make custom templates that you could download and cut out (the ones that came with the game were square sheets with arrows, the custom ones usually have cut outs for the hex base to key into so there's less ambiguity).
In the old version, aircraft were less agile than they are now, but IMO that was better because it did more too separate low agility aircraft (bombers and whatnot) from fighters.
Crablezworth wrote: I feel like it makes sense if there are more models yet to be released but, seems a bit much for a handful of models.
SM + AM alone already have more model than the core trio-titan and knight in AT, yet AT is a game with more variety because of the legio , maniple, stratagem. It's about writing a good, fun rule that give people a bunch of option and ideas to think about.
You could use the old manoeuvre templates and play it without the squares, treating 1 point of movement as 2" instead of 1 square, but you might need to tweak some of the manoeuvrability values.
People used to make custom templates that you could download and cut out (the ones that came with the game were square sheets with arrows, the custom ones usually have cut outs for the hex base to key into so there's less ambiguity).
In the old version, aircraft were less agile than they are now, but IMO that was better because it did more too separate low agility aircraft (bombers and whatnot) from fighters.
SM + AM alone already have more model than the core trio-titan and knight in AT, yet AT is a game with more variety because of the legio , maniple, stratagem. It's about writing a good, fun rule that give people a bunch of option and ideas to think about.
I was also thinking this, and in plastic too.
This aside, I see this as a good sign for Titanicus also, as the article encourages the new book alongside games of THH and AT. I was expecting some announcement for both AI and AT in August, and we've now got this new AI book. With a bit of luck there might be something mentioned on another forthcoming Heresy Thursday...
You could use the old manoeuvre templates and play it without the squares, treating 1 point of movement as 2" instead of 1 square, but you might need to tweak some of the manoeuvrability values.
People used to make custom templates that you could download and cut out (the ones that came with the game were square sheets with arrows, the custom ones usually have cut outs for the hex base to key into so there's less ambiguity).
In the old version, aircraft were less agile than they are now, but IMO that was better because it did more too separate low agility aircraft (bombers and whatnot) from fighters.
I'll have to give it another look, then. Cheers!
Though I guess if you don't like the hexes I'd probably just recommend you play the old version of the game if you can find a copy of the books either 2nd hand or online somewhere But I think there's a few aircraft that didn't exist in the original (Necrons weren't around).
There were 2 books, the original rulebook (has a Thunderbolt on the cover) then an expansion (has a Tau Barracuda on the cover) that added some additional aircraft and scenarios.
After I made that comment about using the old templates, I remembered that the old manoeuvre templates didn't just tell you how far you turned, but they also had changes in speed and altitude depending on the manoeuvre (a very tight turn might slow you down, a split S or Immelman would either decrease or increase your altitude, some manoeuvres let you rapidly change altitude/speed others made it harder to do so). The new version of the game changed things by separating manoeuvres from changes in speed and altitude, in the old version they were linked.
I'm legit sad that they've gone for Horus Heresy. Cause this means they have considered the 40K period complete and that means - no harridanes and no tyranids, not even genestealer cults stealing a few aircraft :(
Overread wrote: I'm legit sad that they've gone for Horus Heresy. Cause this means they have considered the 40K period complete and that means - no harridanes and no tyranids, not even genestealer cults stealing a few aircraft :(
plus, it is going to be SM vs SM due to the setting, and chaos sadly never got included in the current setting, so no more exenos, and IG is questionable in AI from now on. Game WAS dead, it is permanently put to rest now. I doubt FW will make a chaos faction for a non existing setting. (unless we get chaos as part of the 30k setting......)
Just cus AT managed to pull off one faction facing itself due to an exelent core rule book (far, far above the standards of GW rules made over the past 8 years), do not mean they will be able to do it with AI. They are not changing the core rules to make it more like the OG game, they are just pulling a 30k shroud over it, and the special rules of each SM and chaos chapter moust likely wont be enugh if they are going to be as simple as what the game is now.
This my inital toughs of the press release, we ofc have to wait for the rules to drop, but i have very, very low hopes for this new spacemarine game at the present time of writing.
Overread wrote: I'm legit sad that they've gone for Horus Heresy. Cause this means they have considered the 40K period complete and that means - no harridanes and no tyranids, not even genestealer cults stealing a few aircraft :(
Or they wanted to make book with minimal need for new models in the meanwhile.
Where in UK law does it state they can't do 40k - 30k - 40k books?-)
It's of course possible no more 40k but then again this doesn't rule out further 40k rules in future. After all there were 40k rules being released after 30k rules first game out in 40k side. GW isn't limited to supporting just one period at a time.
Overread wrote:I'm legit sad that they've gone for Horus Heresy. Cause this means they have considered the 40K period complete and that means - no harridanes and no tyranids, not even genestealer cults stealing a few aircraft :(
FrozenDwarf wrote:plus, it is going to be SM vs SM due to the setting, and chaos sadly never got included in the current setting, so no more exenos, and IG is questionable in AI from now on. Game WAS dead, it is permanently put to rest now. I doubt FW will make a chaos faction for a non existing setting. (unless we get chaos as part of the 30k setting......)
This is one of the easiest books to put out. They already have most of the models and they're just pushing out a campaign book with, most likely, a couple of resin models to keep the game ticking over. Not forgetting to mention tie ins to 30k and Titanicus.
As for the game being dead, I'd find it unlikely. It may not be the big seller like Titanicus or Blood Bowl, but there are plenty of rumours that it sells enough to justify ongoing support.
Overread wrote: I'm legit sad that they've gone for Horus Heresy. Cause this means they have considered the 40K period complete and that means - no harridanes and no tyranids, not even genestealer cults stealing a few aircraft :(
Err, just because they're releasing a 30k book doesn't mean 40k is finished. I'd say there's a good chance the whole game is finished due to lack of popularity, but releasing a 30k book hardly means they aren't allowed to come back to 40k later.
I personally hope they take the opportunity to revise the rules, they probably won't because they'll likely want to take the lowest effort approach, but IMO the rules were a big part of the thing that killed AI so a v2 with a bit more thought into it could be a great thing.
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zedmeister wrote: As for the game being dead, I'd find it unlikely. It may not be the big seller like Titanicus or Blood Bowl, but there are plenty of rumours that it sells enough to justify ongoing support.
What rumours? Other than the initial release when the store owner told me it was selling extremely well, I haven't heard anything since to indicate that it's been selling well. Some of the SM stuff sold out quickly, but I think that was more likely to be under manufacturing than massive popularity.
From a financial standpoint it makes a lot of sense to do a HH book. Marine releases were the only time I saw any AI stuff move. Everything else is regularly on clearance sales. If a HH book results in enough stock selling to convince the suits it's financially viable to keep producing AI stuff it's probably a win.
zedmeister wrote: As for the game being dead, I'd find it unlikely. It may not be the big seller like Titanicus or Blood Bowl, but there are plenty of rumours that it sells enough to justify ongoing support.
What rumours? Other than the initial release when the store owner told me it was selling extremely well, I haven't heard anything since to indicate that it's been selling well. Some of the SM stuff sold out quickly, but I think that was more likely to be under manufacturing than massive popularity.
I'm pretty sure a reference to such rumour was earlier in this thread. Something on the lines of it sells enough. Though I do wonder how much is bought for use in Titanicus or 1st Edition AI
Chopstick wrote: More like buying it for epic and desk decor. AI even back the day was the least popular Specialist Games.
Mainly because it was a FW only specialist game and poorly advertised. I'm a fan of the original AI and spent several hundred dollars on those tiny resin planes, but I only happened upon it accidentally while looking at the FW site for something unrelated.
The GW version of AI I think failed partly because of poor timing with covid and partly because of lacklustre rules in addition to it's regular challenges like initially releasing with only 2 factions and getting people interested in a new system.
I don't see how this is indicative of the 40k version being done, it comes across as just an easy release to tie it in in to the big Horus Heresy release they've done. It's the best time to do it.
Though I guess if you don't like the hexes I'd probably just recommend you play the old version of the game if you can find a copy of the books either 2nd hand or online somewhere But I think there's a few aircraft that didn't exist in the original (Necrons weren't around).
There were 2 books, the original rulebook (has a Thunderbolt on the cover) then an expansion (has a Tau Barracuda on the cover) that added some additional aircraft and scenarios.
After I made that comment about using the old templates, I remembered that the old manoeuvre templates didn't just tell you how far you turned, but they also had changes in speed and altitude depending on the manoeuvre (a very tight turn might slow you down, a split S or Immelman would either decrease or increase your altitude, some manoeuvres let you rapidly change altitude/speed others made it harder to do so). The new version of the game changed things by separating manoeuvres from changes in speed and altitude, in the old version they were linked.
Cheers, I'll have a snout around for those books.
Since the release of Aeronautica I've been using Horizon Wars instead. You have to design your own units but otherwise it works very well with the dials on the AI bases. There's also the added benefit of throwing in Titanicus knights on the ground( as mechs ) for games that can only be described as "Aeronautica VS Titanicus".
Only problem is knowing how to best represent each of the 40K universe models, and a book like the AI:HH can at the very least provide lore and aircraft profiles to see how each one compares.
I don't mind the hexes as such if they work well, but the availability of such gaming maps are too few and far between. I've noticed that the webstore is no longer showing any starter sets nor the card-stock board packs, which leaves 3rd party or DIY options....
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't see how this is indicative of the 40k version being done, it comes across as just an easy release to tie it in in to the big Horus Heresy release they've done. It's the best time to do it.
They stopped making all 3 2p boxes, rules are in pdf campain books only, and the companion book is not allowed to be sold by 3rd party shops unlike the entire GW AI model range. Hex maps are now completely impossible to get hold of meaning the game cant be played for new players.
That just screams abandon ship to the 40k setting.
And seeing how mutch more easier it is to make products for 30k setting then 40k setting when at max it is going to be 2 factions(sm and IG), for a game that has struggled all the time, now is the best time to drop 40k and go full time on 30k.
However it is all in the air until we see the full rules of the HH book. IF it comes with inch movment, the 40k setting would be saved tough as we would no longer need a hex map, only the planes that they still so far sell.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't see how this is indicative of the 40k version being done, it comes across as just an easy release to tie it in in to the big Horus Heresy release they've done. It's the best time to do it.
They stopped making all 3 2p boxes, rules are in pdf campain books only, and the companion book is not allowed to be sold by 3rd party shops unlike the entire GW AI model range. Hex maps are now completely impossible to get hold of meaning the game cant be played for new players.
That just screams abandon ship to the 40k setting.
And seeing how mutch more easier it is to make products for 30k setting then 40k setting when at max it is going to be 2 factions(sm and IG), for a game that has struggled all the time, now is the best time to drop 40k and go full time on 30k.
However it is all in the air until we see the full rules of the HH book. IF it comes with inch movment, the 40k setting would be saved tough as we would no longer need a hex map, only the planes that they still so far sell.
I'm not sure where they were made but couldn't both the campaign boxes and Hex maps be unavailable for the same reason if they were made elsewhere and they're unable to get more?
It's currently the only side game without any starter, AT still has a starter.
Only reason they didn't sell it anymore because they retire it, The starter only cardboard component is the token. Stuff like Blackstone fortress still on sale and the "elsewhere" production required for those is easily 5,6 times than the AI starter.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't see how this is indicative of the 40k version being done, it comes across as just an easy release to tie it in in to the big Horus Heresy release they've done. It's the best time to do it.
They stopped making all 3 2p boxes, rules are in pdf campain books only, and the companion book is not allowed to be sold by 3rd party shops unlike the entire GW AI model range. Hex maps are now completely impossible to get hold of meaning the game cant be played for new players.
That just screams abandon ship to the 40k setting.
And seeing how mutch more easier it is to make products for 30k setting then 40k setting when at max it is going to be 2 factions(sm and IG), for a game that has struggled all the time, now is the best time to drop 40k and go full time on 30k.
However it is all in the air until we see the full rules of the HH book. IF it comes with inch movment, the 40k setting would be saved tough as we would no longer need a hex map, only the planes that they still so far sell.
I'm not sure where they were made but couldn't both the campaign boxes and Hex maps be unavailable for the same reason if they were made elsewhere and they're unable to get more?
The hex map in the 2p boxes is just some printed paper, they could have had that made anywhere and sold alongside a seperate a4 booklet containg core rules. BUT they did not.
Apart from the planes, everything made for AI has been time limited whitout ever beeing branded as time limited. Plane cards, ground assets, faction dices and moust importantly cardboard hex maps that are bigger then the paper map in the 2p box, all limited number production run.
Heck they never even sold spare bases, what if you break one??
There are large issues with the game but they could be overcome by playing only the content in the 2p boxes, but they are now all discontinued, a prossess not done unless the current setting is beeing removed.
Gw has always had a strange relationship with cardstock in their games. On the one hand they seem really keen to include it wherever they can. On the other they seem really keen to never over-order or never replenish on so many lines.
So any game that relies heavily upon it tends to suffer. I do wonder if it might have been cardstock issues that caused the whole upset with Cursed City last year meanwhile Blackstone is almost an enigma that GW has kept the core game going this long; however all the expansions (and most of the models with them) are one and done releases.
I hadn't noticed the starters gone out of stock until it was mentioned just now, it seemed like they were juggling stock around as intermittently either Wrath of Angels or Wings of Vengeance was on stock.
I dunno if it's been out of stock long enough to get worried about it yet, well, any more worried than I already was. From the very beginning they weren't keeping rulebooks and hex boards in stock.
Rolsheen wrote: It would be nice if they had the models to go with the new book, the Thunderhawk has been out of stock in Australia since they released it.
It sold out super fast on launch, came back in stock a little while later, then went out of stock again. I ended up with 2 of them because the place I initially ordered from put it on back order then it popped up somewhere else so I grabbed it, then when it restocked the original place put their order through I ended up with 2 of them, lol.
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Overread wrote: Gw has always had a strange relationship with cardstock in their games. On the one hand they seem really keen to include it wherever they can. On the other they seem really keen to never over-order or never replenish on so many lines.
So any game that relies heavily upon it tends to suffer. I do wonder if it might have been cardstock issues that caused the whole upset with Cursed City last year meanwhile Blackstone is almost an enigma that GW has kept the core game going this long; however all the expansions (and most of the models with them) are one and done releases.
I kind of wish GW never made AI a hex based game, it slightly speeds up the game not having to measure things, but if they didn't plan to keep the damned hex boards in stock it just becomes a hurdle for people who might consider starting. The ones in the starter sets were way too small.
That and I think hexes limit the movement too much, but that's a separate gripe.
Hex's work, its just that GW never kept them in stock long enough. Also I feel like the way the game was built they kept it small so there was less reason for people to buy bigger flights of aircraft because the boards were by default limited and even more so when they go out of stock so fast.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Speculation. The hexes are the best solution when movement templates could invite headaches from X-Wing?
Both allow for accurate manoeuvres, without stepping on proprietary toes?
I have not played X-wing, but AI used templates before X-wing was ever a thing, I think the original AI came out 5 years prior to X-wing.
Granted the templates were just cards with arrows, but individual users had home made versions that keyed into the hex bases, I imagine they were again doing that before X-wing was a thing.
There's also other aerial combat games that use templates.
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Overread wrote: Hex's work, its just that GW never kept them in stock long enough. Also I feel like the way the game was built they kept it small so there was less reason for people to buy bigger flights of aircraft because the boards were by default limited and even more so when they go out of stock so fast.
Not being in stock was the biggest issue, but it also brought about a 2nd issue that the board was too limiting. You want to turn? Your options are 60, 120, and 180. I think that's too limiting for an aerial combat game, but I'm also an aircraft nerd so maybe that's not the general consensus.
And I'd say not the size isn't just an issue for the ability to play larger games, it's a problem with how the game plays even at small scales. The mat that comes in the starter set is barely big enough even if you only use the models that come in the starter set, and it helps contribute to the game just becoming a massive clusterfeck in the middle of the board where agility and speed is nearly meaningless next to wounds and firepower. The original AI was typically played on a 4x4 or 6x4 or 8x4, and it gave the aircraft room to manoeuvre, and fast aircraft had the space to make their speed meaningful.
But yes, the bigger problem is them not keeping boards in stock, hardly worth arguing about the benefits of a hex board when they don't even sell them
Yeah, lots of air combat (and space combat) games have used manoeuvre gauges before, and since, Xwing including 1st Ed AI. The only reasons I can think of for not doing them is the expense of plastic ones and the inaccuracy of card ones. The hex based system at least has the virtue of being scale agnostic - any size hex you care to use will work the same and tiny errors don’t add up over turns because there’s only six possible facings rather than an unlimited set.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, lots of air combat (and space combat) games have used manoeuvre gauges before, and since, Xwing including 1st Ed AI. The only reasons I can think of for not doing them is the expense of plastic ones and the inaccuracy of card ones. The hex based system at least has the virtue of being scale agnostic - any size hex you care to use will work the same and tiny errors don’t add up over turns because there’s only six possible facings rather than an unlimited set.
The game kind of is scale agnostic anyway, you can put any size models on the bases and it doesn't really matter. Even though the base sizes changed from the 1st edition of AI, the ranges all stayed much the same. 1st ed AI you'd move the number of inches equal to 2x your speed setting, new AI has 2" hexes so it's the same and most aircraft have the same or within +/-1 of the min/max speed they used to have, weapon ranges have only changed slightly - basically subtract 2" of everything and you have the old weapon ranges.
So basically AI 2nd edition increased the model and base sizes by 50%, moved to a hex board that was 25% smaller than the minimum most people used to play on, but kept much the same ranges and speeds as it used to have, which is part of what contributes to it feeling more claustrophobic now.
You could use the old models on the new hex boards, or the new models with the old ranges, and it wouldn't do much to change how the game feels IMO.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, lots of air combat (and space combat) games have used manoeuvre gauges before, and since, Xwing including 1st Ed AI. The only reasons I can think of for not doing them is the expense of plastic ones and the inaccuracy of card ones.
Yet they have no quarrels of making hardplastic range tools and cardboard markers for killzone, templates + range tools for AT, range tools in Aos and 40k 2p boxes, heck they even did a brass range tool for the first edition of AoS.
The overall impression when you compare it to the other boxed games is, that you get the feeling the managment wanted a piece of the cake that is called x-wing, but did not want to commit any resources whatsoever, outside of airplane model production. There is just no logic to how GW manages this game at all, and the person or team that was responsible for creating the rules has moust likely never made or played an aerial craft game before.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, lots of air combat (and space combat) games have used manoeuvre gauges before, and since, Xwing including 1st Ed AI. The only reasons I can think of for not doing them is the expense of plastic ones and the inaccuracy of card ones.
Yet they have no quarrels of making hardplastic range tools and cardboard markers for killzone, templates + range tools for AT, range tools in Aos and 40k 2p boxes, heck they even did a brass range tool for the first edition of AoS.
The overall impression when you compare it to the other boxed games is, that you get the feeling the managment wanted a piece of the cake that is called x-wing, but did not want to commit any resources whatsoever, outside of airplane model production. There is just no logic to how GW manages this game at all, and the person or team that was responsible for creating the rules has moust likely never made or played an aerial craft game before.
I think if GW approached it properly, AI could have taken a chunk of the x-wing cake, but they didn't put the effort into making the game rules solid. I think most of the changes from AI v1 (which was hardly perfect) to AI v2 made the game play worse, or at best some of them might be one-step-forward-one-step-back. Some things don't even feel like they've been playtested.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, lots of air combat (and space combat) games have used manoeuvre gauges before, and since, Xwing including 1st Ed AI. The only reasons I can think of for not doing them is the expense of plastic ones and the inaccuracy of card ones.
Yet they have no quarrels of making hardplastic range tools and cardboard markers for killzone, templates + range tools for AT, range tools in Aos and 40k 2p boxes, heck they even did a brass range tool for the first edition of AoS.
The overall impression when you compare it to the other boxed games is, that you get the feeling the managment wanted a piece of the cake that is called x-wing, but did not want to commit any resources whatsoever, outside of airplane model production. There is just no logic to how GW manages this game at all, and the person or team that was responsible for creating the rules has moust likely never made or played an aerial craft game before.
I think if GW approached it properly, AI could have taken a chunk of the x-wing cake, but they didn't put the effort into making the game rules solid. I think most of the changes from AI v1 (which was hardly perfect) to AI v2 made the game play worse, or at best some of them might be one-step-forward-one-step-back. Some things don't even feel like they've been playtested.
For those interested in the Forgeworld version of Aeronautica Imperialis, and expanding their games of it you may want to check out my review on my blog.
It also has a few links to resources that might be helpful to those who want to explore AI V1. That includes some templates, some alternate stats, more missions, etc. Most will easily convert to V2 as well.
I came to the AI game late, but it is a very tactical game; perhaps the most tactical GW game I have played yet.
The Ares Gunship will be FW, not sure if we knew that before? New board that I don't think was announced before?
I might grab the new book and the board, I still don't have a "full size" AI table (just been using 2 of the smaller ones side by side).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is the cover picture on the hex board evidence that GW themselves don't play AI, given they've got the models pointing the wrong direction on the bases?
ImAGeek wrote: Pretty sure we knew the Ares was resin, yeah.
I thought we were just guessing that'd probably be resin, but maybe we knew, I have the memory of a spoon.
It was never stated anywhere who would make the Ares on its press release, but it was 100% logical that it would be FW who made it.
Same way ti is 100% logical tought that IF there is more SM planes in the plans, they will be made by FW.
Last product to be made from GW in plastic would be 40k chaos, but i doubt that will happend now.
On a side note, they are reprinting the IG stat cards, and SM gets for the first time their stat cards. Lets hope they are NOT limited production run, and the same goes for the game math, it needs to be a permanent product.
Even if the card packs are LE, once we buy them up in record time, you're think they might re-run them.
So, I'll probably grab a set of the SM ones, even though I don't play the SM side of the Angels box.
Little disappointed that there isn't a tie-in set. The Wrath of Angels set is still available from indies and both sides of the house are appealling.
I think I may have asked this years ago, but I'm guessing that the included map would be enough for small games? We're thinking 30-45 minutes at most and wouldn't want to go beyond that.
FrozenDwarf wrote: On a side note, they are reprinting the IG stat cards, and SM gets for the first time their stat cards. Lets hope they are NOT limited production run, and the same goes for the game math, it needs to be a permanent product.
SM did have cards already, can't get them through GW any more but some local game stores still have them in stock, they were called "Adeptus Astartes Aircraft and Aces Cards"
Also, I don't know if these are a reprint of the IG cards, these are "Divisio Aeronautica", we don't know yet if they're going to vary at all from the 40k Imperial Guard / Imperial Navy. Probably not, but the rules for Divisio Aeronautica will be in the new Horus Heresy book, so they could change them if they wanted.
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SamusDrake wrote: I take it that the card packs are for handy reference only, with everything in the HH book?
The cards are set up with the idea to have a card for each aircraft in your squadron, then you can use the card to track missiles and upgrades and whatnot. But they aren't needed, you can keep track of that stuff with tokens or pen and paper instead.
But yeah, it's useful to have the cards as a reference summary sheet, personally I just take screenshots from the digital versions of the rulebooks and make my own summary sheets.
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SamusDrake wrote: Little disappointed that there isn't a tie-in set. The Wrath of Angels set is still available from indies and both sides of the house are appealling.
I think I may have asked this years ago, but I'm guessing that the included map would be enough for small games? We're thinking 30-45 minutes at most and wouldn't want to go beyond that.
Playing the starter set is probably about a 45 minute game.
The map you get in the box is okay for small games. However, my criticism of the map size is that even in small games it's nice to have more space to manoeuvre your aircraft, it's less an issue of game size and more an issue where a small map results in turning the game into a bit of a clusterfeck in the middle of the table. A big map gives fast planes a bit of space to accelerate away and longer ranged aircraft can try and keep their distance rather than it turning into a short ranged furball.
As a reference, the small map is 13 to 14 hexes across, and the faster aircraft in the game (Lightnings, Dakkajets and Nightwings) can move 8 hexes in a single turn.
Currently, I put 2 maps from the starter set side by side to create a bigger map, but I'd like to get something larger like a mousepad material map. But as an initial thing, yeah, the map you get in the starter set is serviceable for smaller games.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Currently, I put 2 maps from the starter set side by side to create a bigger map, but I'd like to get something larger like a mousepad material map. But as an initial thing, yeah, the map you get in the starter set is serviceable for smaller games.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: As a reference, the small map is 13 to 14 hexes across, and the faster aircraft in the game (Lightnings, Dakkajets and Nightwings) can move 8 hexes in a single turn.
Currently, I put 2 maps from the starter set side by side to create a bigger map, but I'd like to get something larger like a mousepad material map. But as an initial thing, yeah, the map you get in the starter set is serviceable for smaller games.
Just to clarify, a Nighshade is max speed 9. I thought it could go to 10, but the Star Engines upgrade caps out at 9.
There's a 4'x4' or 6'x4' hexed mouse mat available from Deep Cut Studio, called Scorched Sky. Most others are OOP, when I looked for one last month. [Doh. I'd missed the last posts, and link by TheGoodGerman]
AllSeeingSkink wrote: As a reference, the small map is 13 to 14 hexes across, and the faster aircraft in the game (Lightnings, Dakkajets and Nightwings) can move 8 hexes in a single turn.
Currently, I put 2 maps from the starter set side by side to create a bigger map, but I'd like to get something larger like a mousepad material map. But as an initial thing, yeah, the map you get in the starter set is serviceable for smaller games.
Just to clarify, a Nighshade is max speed 9. I thought it could go to 10, but the Star Engines upgrade caps out at 9.
I did say "faster" rather than "fastest" But yeah I don't have the compendium still so the Nightshade doesn't exist to me, lol. Technically the Nightwings can also go 9 if you give them Star Engines, as do the Dakkajets with the Wazmek Speshul upgrade. But the point was basically the table is small relative to the speed many aircraft can fly, most fighters are speed 7, 8 or 9 (Xiphon and Barracuda being the slowest fighters at only 6 and 5 respectively). So having a board bigger than 13.5 hexes is good even if only playing with fewer aircraft.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Currently, I put 2 maps from the starter set side by side to create a bigger map, but I'd like to get something larger like a mousepad material map. But as an initial thing, yeah, the map you get in the starter set is serviceable for smaller games.
There's a 4'x4' or 6'x4' hexed mouse mat available from Deep Cut Studio, called Scorched Sky. Most others are OOP, when I looked for one last month. [Doh. I'd missed the last posts, and link by TheGoodGerman]
zedmeister wrote: DeepCut also do the PrintOMat service where they can add a hex grid over any of their designs:
I had considered Deep Cut, but shipping to the Land of Oz is pretty high, 75 euro for a 6x4 hex mousemat and 40 euro shipping, that's around 170 dollarydoos, which is enough to buy 2 of GW's cardboard maps, almost enough to buy 3 actually. As much as I like mousepad boards, that's a pretty hefty price.
Another option may also be to make a hex template from a sheet of plastic, punching small holes to create the hex pattern, then position it over a mouse mat and spray painting through it to create the grid. Time consuming though, you'd probably make a 5x5 hex template and just move it around hopefully keeping the alignment decent as you spray through it.
SamusDrake wrote: Probably too early to ask but is there any pricing for the Horus Heresy book? I forget how much the Aeronautica books cost.
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Another option may also be to make a hex template from a sheet of plastic, punching small holes to create the hex pattern, then position it over a mouse mat and spray painting through it to create the grid. Time consuming though, you'd probably make a 5x5 hex template and just move it around hopefully keeping the alignment decent as you spray through it.
While hunting for the DCS 4x4 mat, I ran across some lasercut companies selling clear hex overlay sheets/boards. You put the overlay on top of any mat you already have, and it now has hexes. The mat scale will look odd, but you're not usually looking at the mat during play. They might be easier to get hold of locally.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Another option may also be to make a hex template from a sheet of plastic, punching small holes to create the hex pattern, then position it over a mouse mat and spray painting through it to create the grid. Time consuming though, you'd probably make a 5x5 hex template and just move it around hopefully keeping the alignment decent as you spray through it.
While hunting for the DCS 4x4 mat, I ran across some lasercut companies selling clear hex overlay sheets/boards. You put the overlay on top of any mat you already have, and it now has hexes. The mat scale will look odd, but you're not usually looking at the mat during play. They might be easier to get hold of locally.
I did look a couple of years back when AI first came out and I never found anything large that was 2" hex.
Considered buying a big sheet of transparent plastic (acetate or something) and taking it to a sign writers, lol, never costed it out though. Was hard to find sheets of acetate bigger than A1, which is slightly less than 2'x3'. There's a store that sells A0 (just under 3'x4') clear PVC, no idea if that can be printed on though.
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
Not sure what to think of that at the moment. I'm just going to see what happens on Saturday and weigh up whether its worth investing in or not.
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
Not sure what to think of that at the moment. I'm just going to see what happens on Saturday and weigh up whether its worth investing in or not.
Aaaaand it's direct only
GW have been so disappointing with this game.
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zedmeister wrote: Up for pre-order on NZ. Can't see any new aircraft in the contents bar the Aries:
I think what's new in this book (not sure) is the "squadron lists" section maybe has special rules for 30k that weren't in previous books as those sections have more pages than what they had in the previous books.
Also, the first part "Air War in the 31st Millenium" probably has a bunch of fluff, as it's 7 pages compared to the previous books where it was only 1 page.
Then pages 40-56 is "Fall of Vanaheim", so more fluff there.
Other than that, it all looks pretty similar.
I wonder if they've added any new rules for Divisio Aeronautica, or if they're just a copy of the Imperial Navy + Custodes.
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
Not sure what to think of that at the moment. I'm just going to see what happens on Saturday and weigh up whether its worth investing in or not.
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
Not sure what to think of that at the moment. I'm just going to see what happens on Saturday and weigh up whether its worth investing in or not.
Aaaaand it's direct only
Aaaaand it's fomo. Rip Aeronautica.
Yeah I missed it. No idea how quick it sold out, admittedly I forgot about it (wasn't at my computer at midday anyway though) and it's now 7pm in Oz.
Tossing up getting the Vanaheim boards, if they weren't direct only they would have been about $60AUD, so getting 2 of them to do canyon runs with 3 boards would be ~$120AUD, that would be cool. But instead, they're $78 direct only, which ventures into the realm of "eh, do I REALLY want this?"
The hexes are also orientated the wrong way to do canyon runs (you'd be zigzagging down the canyon the way they've laid it out).
AT and AN have both been fairly quiet with releases. It's hard to know if their sales metrics are low and they are being slowly mothballed; or if they are limping on; or if staff are simply focused on other projects and don't have time or if there's something big coming or whatever.
Necromunda and Bloodbowl seem healthy. AT/AN possibly on life support and Cursed City limping along
I see AT being played pretty regularly and Titans are often posted in hobby showoffs. During lockdown I saw more Titans than Necromunda gangs or BB teams and afterwards they still seem pretty popular. AN is almost non-existent and usually in a clearance bin online or irl. The only AT kit I see getting clearance sales is the Iconoclast which is probably a lot more to do with everybody who wanted one already buying the ranged Warmaster before it was announced, or seeing the rules are worse and just going with the better options. The AT ruleset also gets a lot of praise from people.
It's never really had a overly aggressive release schedule though. A lot of supplementary books and knights, but the Warmaster and Dire Chicken are the only new Titan kits after launch aren't they?
Well I'd managed to totally forgot this so was pleasantly surprised when I logged in to find it all still in stock. Then I added it all to the bag and it ended up totalling £92 for not a jot of plastic. If you have someone interested in Horus heresy that you want to get into the game for them just to buy rules, a board (which because of odd hex sizes is pretty essential) and the cards (not essential but really do help quality of life) that is £72, before plastic.
I am wondering if I wish I'd missed it and then get out of the game to be honest.
Legion Abilities cost point instead of just being free like AT, oops looks like they're still try to make the game "balance" instead of just fun.
That's how things should be. Ideally by unit as value of ability depends on unit.
Free bonuses is what leads to imbalance and unfluffy forces.
People would rather have fun rule than "balance" one, and balance is in quote because this game isn't balance at all, nor anyone should try to make it some kind of competitive sport, because they're delusional if they think so.
The main problem with these point cost is that the ratio between the upgrade and the cost of an actual plane is too high, most of the time you'd rather have an extra plane or or more rocket rather than the upgrade. Game like 25 pts and 50 pts will pretty much see 1-2 plain fighters, or fighter with missiles fight each other.
In AT not only you get free rules from the legio, you also get free rule from maniples, and it's widely considered a good ruleset. The cost of the upgrade and weapons in AT are also a fraction of a cost of the titans, and the force are semi-limited by the battlegroup rule, you can take pretty much any or multiple upgrade without worrying about being outnumber. In Killteam the factions abilities are free, and it's one of GW most active competitive games, even AT got a "Titan owner club" meet up every year to compete with each other, i don't expect to see any "AI owner meet up" in the next 50 years.
Solution : Faction abilities are either free or increase the point cost of the aircraft up so that taking an upgrade does not feel like you will go -1 or -2 planes in the force for doing so, if anything, put a hard limit into number of aircrafts that can participate in a scenario for each factions.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The almost complete lack of model releases recently certainly doesn't look optimistic
Do we really need more releases? Add the Chaos fighters and the game is complete, we don't need to follow the 40k model of constant new releases regardless of whether or not the game needs them. AI will be just fine as a complete game that receives only minor balance/errata updates.
(Though TBH AI 1.0 is the far better game and the only purpose of the new models is to replace the OOP Epic models. Once that is done there is certainly no need for any further content.)
Chopstick wrote: People would rather have fun rule than "balance" one
Balance is a big part of what creates fun. All else being equal a balanced game has more interesting decision tress and vastly greater replay value. People have a lot more fun when the game is about your decisions on the table and not your ability to copy/paste the standard netlist with the obvious best choices. So yes, when adding a buff to a unit improves that unit it should cost points to reflect this. Otherwise adding the buff becomes an automatic choice, as does playing the sub-faction with the strongest buff.
The main problem with these point cost is that the ratio between the upgrade and the cost of an actual plane is too high, most of the time you'd rather have an extra plane or or more rocket rather than the upgrade. Game like 25 pts and 50 pts will pretty much see 1-2 plain fighters, or fighter with missiles fight each other.
As hard as it might be for 40k fans to understand, this is a good thing. AI does not need rules bloat with layers of special rules attached to every unit. Most aircraft should be basic ones with only secondary weapon upgrades at most, and named pilots/ace upgrades/etc should be the exception rather than the rule. Expensive and situational chapter upgrades are perfect, you'll occasionally take them for a specific purpose but the default is to keep everything basic.
Balance is a big part of what creates fun. All else being equal a balanced game has more interesting decision tress and vastly greater replay value. People have a lot more fun when the game is about your decisions on the table and not your ability to copy/paste the standard netlist with the obvious best choices. So yes, when adding a buff to a unit improves that unit it should cost points to reflect this. Otherwise adding the buff becomes an automatic choice, as does playing the sub-faction with the strongest buff.
As hard as it might be for 40k fans to understand, this is a good thing. AI does not need rules bloat with layers of special rules attached to every unit. Most aircraft should be basic ones with only secondary weapon upgrades at most, and named pilots/ace upgrades/etc should be the exception rather than the rule. Expensive and situational chapter upgrades are perfect, you'll occasionally take them for a specific purpose but the default is to keep everything basic.
A "netlist" will always exist for any point and scenario regardless of if the upgrade cost point or not. You don't see people playing the exact same Legio + Maniple all the times in AT despite they're supposedly horribly unbalanced since lots of them are "free", same for 40k, but i didn't bring 40k up at any point until now.
If the existance of the new rule that will save this game is "situational at best" then the existence of the new book is redundant. The future of AI is "hoard them before it's too late" as usual.
Chopstick wrote: People would rather have fun rule than "balance" one, and balance is in quote because this game isn't balance at all, nor anyone should try to make it some kind of competitive sport, because they're delusional if they think so.
This is really just GW's fault for handling the rules so poorly. I know GW didn't want to turn it into a competitive game, but they should have, they should have tried to snag some of the X-wing pie, then maybe AI wouldn't have such a dismally small player base.
Chopstick wrote: A "netlist" will always exist for any point and scenario regardless of if the upgrade cost point or not. You don't see people playing the exact same Legio + Maniple all the times in AT despite they're supposedly horribly unbalanced since lots of them are "free", same for 40k, but i didn't bring 40k up at any point until now.
A netlist will always exist but you can certainly narrow the gap between a netlist and a normal list. Having free upgrades of varying power layered onto the base unit rules is an excellent way to push that in the other direction.
As for AT, I don't know about that game specifically since I don't play it, but in 40k lots of people take non-netlists for various reasons (all of them prioritizing something else over winning) and get wiped off the table by the netlist players. The only way to have fun without netlisting in 40k is to have an agreement among everyone in the group that you will deliberately make weaker lists and avoid using too many of the strongest options, and as soon as someone breaks the agreement you either kick them out of the group or spark an arms race that inevitably results in everyone playing netlists.
If the existance of the new rule that will save this game is "situational at best" then the existence of the new book is redundant. The future of AI is "hoard them before it's too late" as usual.
AI does not need saving. It just needs GW to release the Chaos models and then maintain inventory of the existing products. Games do not need monthly new releases regardless of available design space to succeed.
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: This is really just GW's fault for handling the rules so poorly. I know GW didn't want to turn it into a competitive game, but they should have, they should have tried to snag some of the X-wing pie, then maybe AI wouldn't have such a dismally small player base.
It's really a shame because AI 1.0 was one of the best games GW has ever made and an excellent foundation for a reboot with new kits. But instead GW doubled down on their 40k errors, decided that not being able to roll dice "isn't fun", and stripped out anything that would prevent you from rolling dice every turn with every unit. No more limited ammunition, no more maneuver restrictions, no more ground attack weapons. Take whatever you want, move it wherever you want facing whatever direction you want, and roll all those dice! And now their solution is to layer on more special rules and put even more emphasis onto list building instead of on-table decisions.
I really wish GW would announce up front whats direct only and whats not. I had pre-preordered this with my FLGS only to learn this morning that its direct only and they can't get them. Log in to the online store to find its already gone. I would have been johnny on the spot with the online store if I had known.
Chopstick wrote: Didn't say sold out, just "temporary out of stock". The "worldwide" stock still there so they will probably move some back to US soon.
I wouldn't trust the GW store's labels too much, USA said temporarily out of stock, Australia says sold out.
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chaos0xomega wrote: I really wish GW would announce up front whats direct only and whats not. I had pre-preordered this with my FLGS only to learn this morning that its direct only and they can't get them. Log in to the online store to find its already gone. I would have been johnny on the spot with the online store if I had known.
Over here retailers won't take preorders until the same Saturday that GW starts taking preorders (though some start taking them earlier than others). That means the retailer won't be taking preorders until they know they can secure stock, and also know what price they'll be charging (direct only stuff has smaller margins, so the shops that bother to stock it won't give as large discounts).
Been looking through the trade account order list and none of the new AI stuff is listed so it is all going to GW Direct. This new release had re-ignited my interest in the game but if it is going to be locked behind GW Direct and entire factions (not just extra craft) being resin only then I'm going to look at moving my stuff on. The last book was the Companion at £16 but this was soft back.
Not sure what to think of that at the moment. I'm just going to see what happens on Saturday and weigh up whether its worth investing in or not.
Aaaaand it's direct only
Aaaaand it's fomo. Rip Aeronautica.
indeed, Direct means the same as not bothering to release when they intensionaly exlude 3rd party FLGS.
GW shops i will never set foot in and any order from any shop in UK will never happend as brexit doubled the import taxes and the shipping time.
I just saw the Ares Gunship on the FW site (did it come out last week? Maybe I missed it).
$81AUD for a single model GW be taking the piss on this one. I know it's worth a lot of points in game, but when a Vampire is $74 and 2x Necron aircraft are $69 (*insert childish laughter*).
If anyone still need any non-Imperial planes, now is the time to buy. Everything non-Horus Heresy era has gone “last chance to buy” on GW’s site. Everything but Marines and Imperial Navy will be unavailable shortly (including the Valkyries…they aren’t Heresy era).
Forge World stock is also showing last chance to buy.
No doubt this is them thinning the selection down to only those usable in Legions Imperialis. The game itself will be no more, though looks like they’re keeping the AI: Horus Heresy book around for the time being.
God damn it GW. This feels like back when they killed AI the first time, scrambling to get what you need to to finish a force.
The Vampire Raider is already out of stock, that's the main thing I wanted from FW. Looks like my Eldar will remain transportless unless 3D printer go brrr. Grabbed some Ork plastics to finish off that squadron.
I guess GW are really trying to drive home the "Epic is for 30k only, get your thoughts of Xenos out of here" point.
They really do their best to give with one hand and take with the other.
GW: Epic is coming out! Fans: yay! GW: It's only HH Fans: *sigh* Okay GW: And we're taking away your non-HH AI too. Fans: Feck...
MrHobbles wrote: If anyone still need any non-Imperial planes, now is the time to buy. Everything non-Horus Heresy era has gone “last chance to buy” on GW’s site. Everything but Marines and Imperial Navy will be unavailable shortly (including the Valkyries…they aren’t Heresy era).
No doubt this is them thinning the selection down to only those usable in Legions Imperialis. The game itself will be no more, though looks like they’re keeping the AI: Horus Heresy book around for the time being.
Really a shame that it's going to be Horus Heresy only. Titanicus never made it past that so I doubt the new game will either, there's some nice stuff this is going to be discontinued.
Avengers and Thunderbolts are gone? Aren't they Horus Heresy era?
Was juat looking at the AI stuff yesterday, and thinking about buying some Orks and Tau, the two Xenos I don't have.
Went back today, and Tau Baracudas are gone. Luckily I was able to buy some Orks.
Sad to see AI go, we all knew it was a matter of time when HH Epic was announced... just thought we might have had a warning. Guess GW want to kill off the game around the back of the shed where no one can see the massacre.
Dont be too quick to give up on the last chance items. I went into my LGS last sunday, and they had many AI kits in stock, I bet the same applies to many gaming stores around the world (AI being one of those games where in-store stock hangs around for years due to low popularity). Just go scawenging through your local stores and you should still be able to find those T'au flyers, my LGS at least had em in stock
I'm contemplating on grabbing any ground assets they might still have available, to use as terrain for Epic Imperialis obvs
ph34r wrote: GW are seriously squatting the entire Aeronautica Imperialis game? Didn’t it just get released like 2 damn years ago?
They probably think that with new Epic game, kits for it, at least Imperial/future Chaos (and with possible expansion into 40k, also Xenos ones) will sell better than currently.
Hello? New here? This is GW. Hardcore FOMO and sudden discontinuation are standard MO. If you want a miniature you should buy it on preorder and even that's not entirely guaranteed. Don't sleep on models you want. You snooze you lose.
lord_blackfang wrote: Hello? New here? This is GW. Hardcore FOMO and sudden discontinuation are standard MO. If you want a miniature you should buy it on preorder and even that's not entirely guaranteed. Don't sleep on models you want. You snooze you lose.
The main reason I have outstanding things I want is because this gak is expensive, so I don't like having a big pile of shame.
But it's more just sad that GW aren't supporting the game, I have enough models for my squadrons, but there's now 0% chance of getting anyone else into it, and also it drives home Epic being HH only. If they had plans to expand Epic to 40k you wouldn't think they'd discontinue the 40k AI models.
Overall, it just sours me on GW at a time when, as an Epic enthusiast, I should be excited about that release.
Billicus wrote: None of it's last chance to buy on the UK webstore
I was curious in case it was just the US, but it is on the UK store too when I look? All Xenos/non-Imperial, plus the Valkyries. All have the hourglass underneath the pricing that says “Last chance to buy” when clicked.
stonehorse wrote: Was juat looking at the AI stuff yesterday, and thinking about buying some Orks and Tau, the two Xenos I don't have.
Went back today, and Tau Baracudas are gone. Luckily I was able to buy some Orks.
Sad to see AI go, we all knew it was a matter of time when HH Epic was announced... just thought we might have had a warning. Guess GW want to kill off the game around the back of the shed where no one can see the massacre.
Oh no! I almost brought big bundle of 2nd hand stuff NIB the other day, but passed on it as there was more Tau Baracudas in there than I'd have use for (Tau are like the only army I don't have for Epic, and unlikely to ever buy). I brought the Ork stuff I need elsewhere last night and looks like the listing is gone now too. I'd have brought it if I know that I could have split the Tau on locally!
It is pretty sad. The game obviously hasn’t done great, and is pretty shallow by most accounts, but the models are lovely and it’s not a great sign for Xenos in this scale in the future.
I told people to hoard this stuff like a year ago. Don't think GW plan to shelf these forever, Maybe wait 5 years for the 40k epic. Assuming GW didn't suffer any crisis during the period.
GW still has the digital assets of all the xenos fliers and the mold masters, so they can still reintroduce (with new SKUs and higher price obvs) all of these if a 40K Epic scale game manifests some time in the future. But seeing as they are going OOP for now, it is likely that a 40K version of Epic is not in the cards.
ImAGeek wrote: It is pretty sad. The game obviously hasn’t done great, and is pretty shallow by most accounts, but the models are lovely and it’s not a great sign for Xenos in this scale in the future.
I kept waiting on them to do Chaos stuff.I wonder how many folks sat on the sidelines like waiting for their faction.
Touching Down, for now
With the looming arrival of Legions Imperialis, you might notice that some of the older range of epic scale Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures are moving to Last Chance To Buy. The xenos aircraft of the Aeldari, Orks and T’au as well as some Imperial planes will be leaving the range for the foreseeable future.
So if you have an air wing that you’ve been hoping to reinforce, now is the time. The majority of Imperial flyers will remain on-station for battles in Legions Imperialis. And you can still play aerial battles in the Age of Darkness with Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis – which will still be available.
This should have been an article, not a pop out on the WHC page.
It's a bit of a joke really, I've missed out on a second Vampire Raider and the Crimson Hunters because they didn't notify clearly.
Quite disappointed that the Xenos stuff is going, but they're all new enough sculpts where I could see them coming back with the inevitable 40k version of Epic.
Touching Down, for now
With the looming arrival of Legions Imperialis, you might notice that some of the older range of epic scale Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures are moving to Last Chance To Buy. The xenos aircraft of the Aeldari, Orks and T’au as well as some Imperial planes will be leaving the range for the foreseeable future.
So if you have an air wing that you’ve been hoping to reinforce, now is the time. The majority of Imperial flyers will remain on-station for battles in Legions Imperialis. And you can still play aerial battles in the Age of Darkness with Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis – which will still be available.
This should have been an article, not a pop out on the WHC page.
Surprised its got any mention at all, really. It is somewhat interesting that they say "for now" and "Foreseeable future" though, have they worded things in a way that implies there's potential to being bought back later when talking about removing items before this? They did for some of the recent time-limited vaulting stuff but that was a different matter really.
It is my own fault for not stocking up on more Ork sets when they first came out. I've slung an order in but don't expect it to get fulfilled.
I'd also put off buying eldar, as my epic collection is pretty thin and I'm not sure I'm willing to spend the money on ever completing them tbh.
I don't see them bringing them back for an updated 40k Epic though. The new Epic Legions is HH focused, but to expand to 40k would require an entirely new line as the new legion models are very distinctly HH. Not to outright say that they won't bring it back, I never expected this 30k version to be released after all, so there is always a chance.
But I honestly would have thought they would have sold the AI stuff alongside the new game for at least 12 months, as interest in this scale is going to be massively increased. I guess they didn't want to keep storing the models and don't want to risk encouraging people to go elsewhere for Epic xenos.
And you can still play aerial battles in the Age of Darkness with Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis – which will still be available.
Well, in the US at least, they’ve removed all the Areas of Engagement from sale. So while you can buy the planes and the rulebook, you’ll have nowhere to play the game on unless you draw your own hex grid.
RexHavoc wrote: I don't see them bringing them back for an updated 40k Epic though. The new Epic Legions is HH focused, but to expand to 40k would require an entirely new line as the new legion models are very distinctly HH. Not to outright say that they won't bring it back, I never expected this 30k version to be released after all, so there is always a chance.
If they're smart, they could return to the Epic 4th Edtion and Imperial Armour release model. That's where they put out models and army lists for a specific campaign. That way they're providing things for a historical conflict without the need to produce what's current. You could have Eldar from a specific craftworld V Space Marines from a certain chapter and specific Imperial Guard regiment. Or they could re-do Vraks where they re-use a lot of Solar Auxilia Models and, if they produce Militia models for Epic, maybe include those as well?
And you can still play aerial battles in the Age of Darkness with Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis – which will still be available.
Well, in the US at least, they’ve removed all the Areas of Engagement from sale. So while you can buy the planes and the rulebook, you’ll have nowhere to play the game on unless you draw your own hex grid.
The hex boards were always one of my gripes with this game. They release a hex based game, but make it hard to get the boards, and the boards they do release are way too small anyway.
The whole AI thing has just been depressing. AI1 was one of my favourite games, it had some flaws but they were mostly minor and could have been easily fixed. Hell, there was even a WW2 dogfighting game that was built off the AI1 rules as a basis as it was pretty good for squadron sized games, it felt like it had just the right amount of abstraction for a game with handful of aircraft per side.
But instead of fixing the minor issues, they released a game, AI2, that broke half of what worked in the original game, had the depth of a kiddy pool, wasn't properly supported, was poorly balanced, and often didn't even play like an dogfighting game should. Not to mention the silly way they handled rules releases.
Could have been such a good game, I so desperately wanted to have a game that could convince my friends to get into that wasn't too expensive and was good for short quick games when we didn't want to set up 100 models for a full day game. I don't think GW were trying to compete with Xwing, but they should have tried, maybe the rules wouldn't have been so bad.
And now it's going to sink slowly into the dark depths of dead games that aren't good enough for the community to continue on with.
Whats the likelihood that the forgeworld stuff currently listed as "temporarily out of stock" comes back in stock before the "last chance to buy" period ends?
chaos0xomega wrote: Whats the likelihood that the forgeworld stuff currently listed as "temporarily out of stock" comes back in stock before the "last chance to buy" period ends?
I'm going to guess "low".
FW's labelling of out of stock / temporarily out of stock is abysmally inconsistent.
The last wave of FW removals for 40K didn't come with any new stocking; they just announced it and the stock ran out in about 1-2 days on almost all of it.
The only thing I saw come back was a Malanthrope and I suspect that was just a "found it behind the counter" or "cancelled order" item.
Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
arcanum wrote: Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
I'm sure the fact that X-Wing has a competitive tight set of exciting and engaging rules and AI2 doesn't has nothing to do with it.
arcanum wrote: Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
I'm sure the fact that X-Wing has a competitive tight set of exciting and engaging rules and AI2 doesn't has nothing to do with it.
That hex map alone screams 'Fun!' like a slightly off-centered black and white copy from a late 1980s wargaming magazine.
arcanum wrote: Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
I'm sure the fact that X-Wing has a competitive tight set of exciting and engaging rules and AI2 doesn't has nothing to do with it.
That hex map alone screams 'Fun!' like a slightly off-centered black and white copy from a late 1980s wargaming magazine.
You do realise that Hexmap loving Battletech is currently enjoying perhaps its biggest surge of players ever
There isn't a problem with hexmaps; heck the use of them actually gets around some limitations/issues with free-form moving. It's not a straight cut "X is superior to Y" situation.
arcanum wrote: Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
I'm sure the fact that X-Wing has a competitive tight set of exciting and engaging rules and AI2 doesn't has nothing to do with it.
That hex map alone screams 'Fun!' like a slightly off-centered black and white copy from a late 1980s wargaming magazine.
You do realise that Hexmap loving Battletech is currently enjoying perhaps its biggest surge of players ever
There isn't a problem with hexmaps; heck the use of them actually gets around some limitations/issues with free-form moving. It's not a straight cut "X is superior to Y" situation.
arcanum wrote: Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)
It seemed like a clear case of chasing X-Wing popularity and going after nostalgic players. The problem is they didn't bother to figure out exactly WHAT made original AI or current X-Wing good, and managed to capture neither.
lord_blackfang wrote: Hello? New here? This is GW. Hardcore FOMO and sudden discontinuation are standard MO. If you want a miniature you should buy it on preorder and even that's not entirely guaranteed. Don't sleep on models you want. You snooze you lose.
Oh, at this point I believe it's not me the one who loses. I lose on spending money, sure, otherwise... honestly, they are probably making me a favor.
Managed to find somewhere to order the Valkyrie and Tigershark AX-1-0 from, most places seemed to have sold out already. They're cool models so just wanted them to make and paint for display.
One of three sets I ordered yesterday has already gone out of stock.
Trouble with GW is they will hold off on sending the other items until they email in about a week to ask should they refund the first item.
Then in that time another item will go out of stock and start the emailing process over again.
As I said earlier in this thread, my own fault for not buying more when it was available. Its not a big loss for me if I don't get the items, I only wanted more orks for using in Epic. I just get annoyed that their stock control is god awful even when items are not on last orders.
Its more their loss if they don't send the order. The money would just about buy a 3d printer, or perhaps a new army for Epic elsewhere. The more alternative models I buy for Epic elsewhere, the less likely I'm going to spend big on the new Epic models.
Update: Well that was surprising. Just got the email to say my Ork boxes have been shipped out! I've had such terrible trouble over the last few years with direct orders but this time they made me eat my words!
Pleased, as now that means I can build my ork airbase I'd been planning to do (and already brought the rest of the bits for last year). I wonder if the bases are going to get replaced in the legion boxes. In which case I'd better keep mine in a safe place!
Easy E wrote: I considered getting in, but was waiting on the new Hellblades and Helltalons before doing so.
Glad I never bothered. I will stick with my AI1 stuff.
Honestly? You are a wise guy, and I applaud your patience.
Other than the truly exceptionally well done new models, the current edition added almost nothing of value. I guess Necron players would disagree, but other than that? Worse rules, worse variety in models. I am still bitter they never did Chaos again, and will never stop complaining about it.
stonehorse wrote: Was juat looking at the AI stuff yesterday, and thinking about buying some Orks and Tau, the two Xenos I don't have.
Went back today, and Tau Baracudas are gone. Luckily I was able to buy some Orks.
Sad to see AI go, we all knew it was a matter of time when HH Epic was announced... just thought we might have had a warning. Guess GW want to kill off the game around the back of the shed where no one can see the massacre.
For what it’s worth, this is what my FLGS has on the shelves.
Didn’t get the prices, but it’s pretty close by so can do a more in-depth check if needed.
I’m happy to practice what I preach and pick up what folks want and post it on with the sole “mark up” being covering PayPal fees.
lord_blackfang wrote: Forgeworld Chaos flyers (not Heldrakes) in plastic would have been an instant buy for me even with full awareness that the game is total garbage.
I honestly would have been happy with Forge World resin, just like the Necrons. More expensive? Yes. But they'd exist.
I'm actually sad we didn't get them. It would have taken the same amount of the effort as the Necrons, just two seperate SKU's. Heck just make the rules downloadable, don't even bother with a Compendium 2. But alas, it never came to pass.
Boosykes wrote: Price and rules sucked simple as that, and as exited as I am for new epic if they don't get the price right and the rules right it will be the same.
Not sure what game you've been playing, but the barrier to entry was extremely reasonable as GW games go. The ruleset is pretty good too and there's a lively community (in the UK at least).
Boosykes wrote: Price and rules sucked simple as that, and as exited as I am for new epic if they don't get the price right and the rules right it will be the same.
Not sure what game you've been playing, but the barrier to entry was extremely reasonable as GW games go. The ruleset is pretty good too and there's a lively community (in the UK at least).
I didn't mind the price when considered on an individual level, but the way they nickled and dimed the game as a whole was off putting.
Like, you buy a starter, and that gets you a couple of games, but it's not really big enough. But then you buy boxes of the individual aircraft to expand on your starter but now you probably have more than you wanted. Then you add on the rules, they could have easily put all the necessary rules in the starter sets or simply made the starter set cheaper without any rules and buy the books separately. Instead they give you a book with a few key pages missing so that you need to buy a completely different book just to get the rules for a couple of extra aircraft and some scenarios.
Then they give you a board in the box, but it's waaay to small.
So individually if I looked at any one product, yeah, the price wasn't bad, but as a game it was one that made it difficult to decide how you want to make an entry. It was a real coin toss of whether you buy a starter and be left with only doing basic intro games, buy individual squadron boxes and then the rulebook and board and skip the half arsed starter book/board, or buy 2 starters and still not have a proper book/board. You don't want customers standing there staring at the shelf doing maths for 10 minutes trying to figure out how best to get into the game.
I think they should have either made the starter sets more bare bones and cheaper, or more expensive but containing a proper rulebook and proper board.
And the hex thing, hexes can be good for some games, but I don't think they're good for AI because it limits directions to every 60° which takes away a lot of the freedom of a dogfighting game, and AI really wants a large board to play on which makes the hexes less practical. AI1 effectively had the same ranges (1 hex in AI2 = 2" in AI1) and AI1 was typically played on 4x4 boards or larger, so AI2 squashed the game into a much smaller area and it made the game more claustrophobic.
Even for all the money I've spent on this game, I still don't have a proper board to play on.
I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did. Even though it was pretty obvious years ago it wasn’t going to make it. They gave an unpopular system more love than such things usually get from GW.
it appears as if GW is severely underproducing kits. I've never seen so many kits in the temporarily out of stock section ever. Half of the new guard release are all out of stock on the usa page.
Aeronautica came out right before covid, was lacking space marines, chaos and a bunch of xenos factions. By the time stuff started to come out it was just too late and already felt "dead". GW was also dealing with limited supply of printed products coming out of china which showed in the warhammer quest release.
As far as the game itself, it is simple, easy to play and quick to finish. The strategy involved in the game is actually decent, but its not as indepth as a hardcore wargamer would enjoy. Unfortunately it was too steep of a price for a game of that style.
Personally a system like the original AI would have been really cool if they utilized a different system other than the cards. I am very much looking forward to trying out Missile Threat with my AI models if I can find someone willing to give it a try.
I will however be running an Aeronautica event at a local game store this month to coincide with a big 10th edition apoc game, so at least i have that.
Part of the problem for Aeronautica is that it seemed to be designed with this eventuality in mind (I.e just an excuse to develop planes for Epic)
The actual game itself doesn’t know whether it is a board game or a war game and would probably play much better with counters rather than miniatures (then you could put pieces in the same hex).
The models themselves are awesome, though I do love plane models.
For people looking for bigger boards I can recommend the boards for Ogre, they do use smaller hexes but they fit the old AI bases perfectly and the bigger bases can be made to work.
The first set of rules are well worth playing and they are designed as actual miniatures game, I agree with all the others who have said they are well worth finding and having a go with.
lord_blackfang wrote: What I was considering was making a movement template out of one or more AI bases and using it on a non gridded board.
Or you could make an all-purpose template of about 6x6 hexes or whatever to cover all possibilities, for tailing checks and such. Not a bad idea at all.
Voss wrote: Yeesh. What a way to launch a new Epic 30k: show willingness to cancel games. Definitely makes me want to buy the latest thing...
I feel like this and several of their other releases show either an unwillingless to properly commit to them or just not knowing what they're really doing.
Titanicus was locked into the Horus Heresy and never expanded beyond it despite being a game that involves small amounts of units that would have been relatively easy to add other armies to.
Aeronatica then gets set in 40k, but No Space Marines for a while, other than the Imperium most armies hardly get much (other than Orks), several don't even show up (we don't get chaos, one of the most popular armies, but we get Custodes!), several units are resin including all of the Necrons, and the game gets abandoned in favour of another Horus Heresy focused game.
And then that new Horus Heresy game clearly isn't built with anything long-term in mind like an expansion to 40k later on, either.
There's Warhammer The Old World and how was touted as some big project with new Kislev and all that, and then it turns out that several iconic beloved WHFB armies just aren't even there beyond lip service, aren't in their plans for the game at all, things like those new Kislev stuff don't get any mention at all, it'll be a couple of new units per army, and no hint at any tie in stuff like novels.
And also the Leagues of Votann, where a new army being added should have been treated as a big deal...wasn't. They still haven't even had a novel announced or properly showed up in any a year after their reveal.
Just feels like they refuse to properly commit or aren't capable of getting them the attention needed.
The whole (plastic) Heresy line has barely got 'chaos anything' really, and the resin line is not much better. Some Gal Vorbak, a couple of Demons and less than a handful of Demon Engines. Other than that, it's just dreads, heads and shouldepads.
Looks like the culling has finally happened. On GW's website everything has gone except the HH rulebook, and on FW's website only the SM ground assets, Ares Gunship, and militarum ground assets remain. Everything else as gone.
Titanicus has had a similar culling - all the resin titans have gone.
I imagine the Imperial stuff will return but in new boxes, as discussed. And perhaps under the Legions Imperialis label.
The only thing on the GW Australia site is the HH rulebook which has been "Temporarily Out of Stock" since the day it released, I still haven't been able to get my hands on a copy.
I did think the Arvus Lighter and Marauder variants on FW would have stuck around, looks like they're gone also.
SamusDrake wrote: They might as well discontinue the rule book and be done with it.
It seems odd that they've kept it up when it was direct only and they haven't even resupplied it in the entire time it's been up on their site.
I can't imagine it sold a lot of copies, I want a copy but can't even find it via high seas villainy.
Ended up buying a bunch of planes to fill out my squadrons. Mostly blown my hobby budget for the year, so new Epic is going to have to be something special for me to buy into it on release.
Breotan wrote: We'll see if they still intend to support AI once the imperial aircraft are repackaged for LI.
Still, with all the xenos stuff "squatted", I highly doubt it.
Depends what you mean by support. The Imperium flyer kits will still be produced so all GW need to do is keep Aeronautica bases available (either in the model boxes, or separately) and keep that book on sale, and the game is "supported". It certainly sounds like that's what will happen.
Perhaps in the future we'll get new flyer models (such as AdMech) for LI and those will come with an AI datacard. I wouldn't expect any more effort than that though; meaning no new AI boxed games or expansion books for a while.
You’ll also find hexagonal bases for Aeronautica Imperialis, sporting radar patterns as well as adjustable dials to display altitude and speed – so you can use your new Legions Imperialis aircraft in games of Aeronautica, too.*
...could there be more support going forward? Time will tell...
Thats not any different from what we already knew. They told us pretty much from the word go on LI that AI would live on in the HH setting and that the minis would be cross compatible.
You’ll also find hexagonal bases for Aeronautica Imperialis, sporting radar patterns as well as adjustable dials to display altitude and speed – so you can use your new Legions Imperialis aircraft in games of Aeronautica, too.*
...could there be more support going forward? Time will tell...
Not for xenos. Aside from Necromunda, FW appears to be pulling out of 40k and going all-in on HH.
