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 Overread wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

arcanum wrote:
Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)

I'm sure the fact that X-Wing has a competitive tight set of exciting and engaging rules and AI2 doesn't has nothing to do with it.

That hex map alone screams 'Fun!' like a slightly off-centered black and white copy from a late 1980s wargaming magazine.

You do realise that Hexmap loving Battletech is currently enjoying perhaps its biggest surge of players ever

There isn't a problem with hexmaps; heck the use of them actually gets around some limitations/issues with free-form moving. It's not a straight cut "X is superior to Y" situation.

't was a joke, and nothing more

arcanum wrote:
Dont think AI2 ever really stood a chance. I doubt it would of ever come out without X-Wing but they failed what made X-Wing so popular - the setting and the low investment of actually picking new units up (no time cost for xwing minis)

It seemed like a clear case of chasing X-Wing popularity and going after nostalgic players. The problem is they didn't bother to figure out exactly WHAT made original AI or current X-Wing good, and managed to capture neither.

Price and rules sucked simple as that, and as exited as I am for new epic if they don't get the price right and the rules right it will be the same.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hello? New here? This is GW. Hardcore FOMO and sudden discontinuation are standard MO. If you want a miniature you should buy it on preorder and even that's not entirely guaranteed. Don't sleep on models you want. You snooze you lose.

Oh, at this point I believe it's not me the one who loses. I lose on spending money, sure, otherwise... honestly, they are probably making me a favor.

Managed to find somewhere to order the Valkyrie and Tigershark AX-1-0 from, most places seemed to have sold out already. They're cool models so just wanted them to make and paint for display.

One of three sets I ordered yesterday has already gone out of stock.

Trouble with GW is they will hold off on sending the other items until they email in about a week to ask should they refund the first item.

Then in that time another item will go out of stock and start the emailing process over again.

As I said earlier in this thread, my own fault for not buying more when it was available. Its not a big loss for me if I don't get the items, I only wanted more orks for using in Epic. I just get annoyed that their stock control is god awful even when items are not on last orders.

Its more their loss if they don't send the order. The money would just about buy a 3d printer, or perhaps a new army for Epic elsewhere. The more alternative models I buy for Epic elsewhere, the less likely I'm going to spend big on the new Epic models.

Update: Well that was surprising. Just got the email to say my Ork boxes have been shipped out! I've had such terrible trouble over the last few years with direct orders but this time they made me eat my words!

Pleased, as now that means I can build my ork airbase I'd been planning to do (and already brought the rest of the bits for last year). I wonder if the bases are going to get replaced in the legion boxes. In which case I'd better keep mine in a safe place!

I considered getting in, but was waiting on the new Hellblades and Helltalons before doing so.

Glad I never bothered. I will stick with my AI1 stuff.

 Easy E wrote:
I considered getting in, but was waiting on the new Hellblades and Helltalons before doing so.

Glad I never bothered. I will stick with my AI1 stuff.

Honestly? You are a wise guy, and I applaud your patience.

Other than the truly exceptionally well done new models, the current edition added almost nothing of value. I guess Necron players would disagree, but other than that? Worse rules, worse variety in models. I am still bitter they never did Chaos again, and will never stop complaining about it.

 stonehorse wrote:
Was juat looking at the AI stuff yesterday, and thinking about buying some Orks and Tau, the two Xenos I don't have.

Went back today, and Tau Baracudas are gone. Luckily I was able to buy some Orks.

Sad to see AI go, we all knew it was a matter of time when HH Epic was announced... just thought we might have had a warning. Guess GW want to kill off the game around the back of the shed where no one can see the massacre.

For what it’s worth, this is what my FLGS has on the shelves.

Didn’t get the prices, but it’s pretty close by so can do a more in-depth check if needed.

I’m happy to practice what I preach and pick up what folks want and post it on with the sole “mark up” being covering PayPal fees.

Why the fees? To keep everything honest!

 Easy E wrote:
I considered getting in, but was waiting on the new Hellblades and Helltalons before doing so.

Glad I never bothered. I will stick with my AI1 stuff.

Forgeworld Chaos flyers (not Heldrakes) in plastic would have been an instant buy for me even with full awareness that the game is total garbage.

Did they ever release plastic Necron fighters? No, right?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did they ever release plastic Necron fighters? No, right?

Were they not a resin release from forgeworld direct

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Forgeworld Chaos flyers (not Heldrakes) in plastic would have been an instant buy for me even with full awareness that the game is total garbage.

I honestly would have been happy with Forge World resin, just like the Necrons. More expensive? Yes. But they'd exist.

I'm actually sad we didn't get them. It would have taken the same amount of the effort as the Necrons, just two seperate SKU's. Heck just make the rules downloadable, don't even bother with a Compendium 2. But alas, it never came to pass.

Boosykes wrote:
Price and rules sucked simple as that, and as exited as I am for new epic if they don't get the price right and the rules right it will be the same.

Not sure what game you've been playing, but the barrier to entry was extremely reasonable as GW games go. The ruleset is pretty good too and there's a lively community (in the UK at least).

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Price and rules sucked simple as that, and as exited as I am for new epic if they don't get the price right and the rules right it will be the same.

Not sure what game you've been playing, but the barrier to entry was extremely reasonable as GW games go. The ruleset is pretty good too and there's a lively community (in the UK at least).

I didn't mind the price when considered on an individual level, but the way they nickled and dimed the game as a whole was off putting.

Like, you buy a starter, and that gets you a couple of games, but it's not really big enough. But then you buy boxes of the individual aircraft to expand on your starter but now you probably have more than you wanted. Then you add on the rules, they could have easily put all the necessary rules in the starter sets or simply made the starter set cheaper without any rules and buy the books separately. Instead they give you a book with a few key pages missing so that you need to buy a completely different book just to get the rules for a couple of extra aircraft and some scenarios.

Then they give you a board in the box, but it's waaay to small.

So individually if I looked at any one product, yeah, the price wasn't bad, but as a game it was one that made it difficult to decide how you want to make an entry. It was a real coin toss of whether you buy a starter and be left with only doing basic intro games, buy individual squadron boxes and then the rulebook and board and skip the half arsed starter book/board, or buy 2 starters and still not have a proper book/board. You don't want customers standing there staring at the shelf doing maths for 10 minutes trying to figure out how best to get into the game.

I think they should have either made the starter sets more bare bones and cheaper, or more expensive but containing a proper rulebook and proper board.

And the hex thing, hexes can be good for some games, but I don't think they're good for AI because it limits directions to every 60° which takes away a lot of the freedom of a dogfighting game, and AI really wants a large board to play on which makes the hexes less practical. AI1 effectively had the same ranges (1 hex in AI2 = 2" in AI1) and AI1 was typically played on 4x4 boards or larger, so AI2 squashed the game into a much smaller area and it made the game more claustrophobic.

Even for all the money I've spent on this game, I still don't have a proper board to play on.

Yeesh. What a way to launch a new Epic 30k: show willingness to cancel games. Definitely makes me want to buy the latest thing...

I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did. Even though it was pretty obvious years ago it wasn’t going to make it. They gave an unpopular system more love than such things usually get from GW.

it appears as if GW is severely underproducing kits. I've never seen so many kits in the temporarily out of stock section ever. Half of the new guard release are all out of stock on the usa page.

Aeronautica came out right before covid, was lacking space marines, chaos and a bunch of xenos factions. By the time stuff started to come out it was just too late and already felt "dead". GW was also dealing with limited supply of printed products coming out of china which showed in the warhammer quest release.

As far as the game itself, it is simple, easy to play and quick to finish. The strategy involved in the game is actually decent, but its not as indepth as a hardcore wargamer would enjoy. Unfortunately it was too steep of a price for a game of that style.


Personally a system like the original AI would have been really cool if they utilized a different system other than the cards. I am very much looking forward to trying out Missile Threat with my AI models if I can find someone willing to give it a try.

I will however be running an Aeronautica event at a local game store this month to coincide with a big 10th edition apoc game, so at least i have that.

I have a nice collection of the Ork aircraft, which are really good little models. I never cared much about the game, so I won't miss it.

Part of the problem for Aeronautica is that it seemed to be designed with this eventuality in mind (I.e just an excuse to develop planes for Epic)

The actual game itself doesn’t know whether it is a board game or a war game and would probably play much better with counters rather than miniatures (then you could put pieces in the same hex).

The models themselves are awesome, though I do love plane models.

For people looking for bigger boards I can recommend the boards for Ogre, they do use smaller hexes but they fit the old AI bases perfectly and the bigger bases can be made to work.

The first set of rules are well worth playing and they are designed as actual miniatures game, I agree with all the others who have said they are well worth finding and having a go with.

What I was considering was making a movement template out of one or more AI bases and using it on a non gridded board.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What I was considering was making a movement template out of one or more AI bases and using it on a non gridded board.

Or you could make an all-purpose template of about 6x6 hexes or whatever to cover all possibilities, for tailing checks and such. Not a bad idea at all.

Or just play with the old AI rules and template on normal board.

Slightly sad, I did like the little planes.

Chopstick wrote:
Or just play with the old AI rules and template on normal board.

I’ve considering making a fan rule set based on AI1, updating some of the things I didn’t like, one of which would be revised movement templates.

Maybe now that GW have killed it that’s more viable.

Dunno if there’s any interest in it though.

"If you make it, they will come".

Voss wrote:
Yeesh. What a way to launch a new Epic 30k: show willingness to cancel games. Definitely makes me want to buy the latest thing...

I feel like this and several of their other releases show either an unwillingless to properly commit to them or just not knowing what they're really doing.

Titanicus was locked into the Horus Heresy and never expanded beyond it despite being a game that involves small amounts of units that would have been relatively easy to add other armies to.

Aeronatica then gets set in 40k, but No Space Marines for a while, other than the Imperium most armies hardly get much (other than Orks), several don't even show up (we don't get chaos, one of the most popular armies, but we get Custodes!), several units are resin including all of the Necrons, and the game gets abandoned in favour of another Horus Heresy focused game.

And then that new Horus Heresy game clearly isn't built with anything long-term in mind like an expansion to 40k later on, either.

There's Warhammer The Old World and how was touted as some big project with new Kislev and all that, and then it turns out that several iconic beloved WHFB armies just aren't even there beyond lip service, aren't in their plans for the game at all, things like those new Kislev stuff don't get any mention at all, it'll be a couple of new units per army, and no hint at any tie in stuff like novels.

And also the Leagues of Votann, where a new army being added should have been treated as a big deal...wasn't. They still haven't even had a novel announced or properly showed up in any a year after their reveal.

Just feels like they refuse to properly commit or aren't capable of getting them the attention needed.

Adeptus Titanicus still hasn't even got Chaos titans...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Adeptus Titanicus still hasn't even got Chaos titans...

The whole (plastic) Heresy line has barely got 'chaos anything' really, and the resin line is not much better. Some Gal Vorbak, a couple of Demons and less than a handful of Demon Engines. Other than that, it's just dreads, heads and shouldepads.

Looks like the culling has finally happened. On GW's website everything has gone except the HH rulebook, and on FW's website only the SM ground assets, Ares Gunship, and militarum ground assets remain. Everything else as gone.

Titanicus has had a similar culling - all the resin titans have gone.

I imagine the Imperial stuff will return but in new boxes, as discussed. And perhaps under the Legions Imperialis label.