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Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:10:14


Post by: Chopstick


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/25/coming-soon-a-new-age-of-aerial-combat/








And I thought It was Chaos to be double compatible with AT.

Also Thunderbolt with Assault cannon, that's new.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:14:27


Post by: Yodhrin


Phwoar.

Any details about, is there a seminar we can expect to hear some info? EDIT: nvm.

The models look great, but I'm not sold on the hex-based board game direction. I'll give it a go like, but I'm glad I managed to get hold of a copy of the original couple of books at a reasonable price.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:16:32


Post by: Chopstick


 Yodhrin wrote:
Phwoar.

Any details about, is there a seminar we can expect to hear some info? EDIT: nvm.


Yeah, second after I post the picture Warcom update with article, so I had to edit.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:17:53


Post by: beast_gts


Chopstick wrote:
Also Thunderbolt with Assault cannon, that's new.

have they said they're assault cannons, as they look more like punisher cannons?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:20:12


Post by: Chopstick


beast_gts wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Also Thunderbolt with Assault cannon, that's new.

have they said they're assault cannons, as they look more like punisher cannons?


All aircraft i've seen so far use assault cannon. Actually that look like the 5 barrels Avenger Strike Assault Cannon.

Which is great because I love the Thunderbolt and I also love dakka , hopefully they also had Marauder Destroyer option.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:22:40


Post by: beast_gts


Chopstick wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Also Thunderbolt with Assault cannon, that's new.

have they said they're assault cannons, as they look more like punisher cannons?


All aircraft i've seen so far use assault cannon. Actually that look like the 5 barrels Avenger Strike Assault Cannon.

Which is great because I love the Thunderbolt and I also love dakka , hopefully they also had Marauder Destroyer option.


I've got Vultures with Punisher Cannons, and when I saw the model I immediately thought Punisher Cannons :-)
But you're right - it does look more like the Avenger's gun.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:23:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Avenger Bolt Cannons I think? The same as on the other, derpy looking flyer?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:25:59


Post by: Kirasu


Uh oh I hope that Marauder's wing doesnt hang off the board edge or it's instantly destroyed.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:26:27


Post by: Ratius


Are the TBs a bit out of proportion to the Maras? (i.e. too big)?

And are those new pointy nosed Orks jets new?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:27:18


Post by: Overread


Those aircraft look darn fantastic! I'm also glad to see orks appear and not just having another Imperial Civil war release. I wonder if that spells a hint for which Xenos faction might get AT titans in the distant future!


The only issue I've really got is that they've gone for hex based bases so whilst the models are of the right scale, it might be a bit of a pain fitting them into a future Epic re-launch. Then again a lot of people tend to not affix aircraft to their flight pegs so if you don't you can easily change up to rounds. Of course that might be a concern 10 years away.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:29:06


Post by: Chopstick


I watched the clip now and the new Thunderbolt is the Thunderbolt Fury, with Avenger Bolt Cannon


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:31:04


Post by: Gitzbitah


Looks like the old Dogfight boardgame! Outstanding!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:33:27


Post by: BrookM




I can't wait.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:38:10


Post by: Sqorgar


I was under the impression that this was going to be compatible with Adeptus Titanicus... is that not the case?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:46:46


Post by: Shadox


 Sqorgar wrote:
I was under the impression that this was going to be compatible with Adeptus Titanicus... is that not the case?


Thought that as well. It doesn't look like it.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:48:21


Post by: Tyranid Horde


Bring out Eldar for this and I'll be spending money, very cool set I just hope the hex-system is good.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:51:47


Post by: zedmeister


Looks very similar to the original in terms of movement dials. Hexes are new.

Epic!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:53:04


Post by: Peregrine


Oh god those models are beautiful, and no apparent loss of detail going from resin to plastic. And hey, even if the rules suck you can always play the original!

 Sqorgar wrote:
I was under the impression that this was going to be compatible with Adeptus Titanicus... is that not the case?


Nope. AI is (and was) a separate game, as it should be. The models are AT/Epic scale though, so they'll all work when Epic inevitably happens


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:53:49


Post by: BrookM


As has been mentioned before by others, chances are this all will go up for preorder at the end of this month, courtesy of Black Library:





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 14:54:09


Post by: Undead_Love-Machine


Looks great, I always wanted to get into the original AI but never got round to it, this is the perfect opportunity.

I just wish that Orks weren't in the starter set, I'd prefer pretty much any other faction.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:02:36


Post by: aka_mythos


Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:05:54


Post by: gruebot


Ah yes, now I can fulfill my lifelong dream of building an Ork aircraft carrier.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:06:19


Post by: Alpharius


 Sqorgar wrote:
I was under the impression that this was going to be compatible with Adeptus Titanicus... is that not the case?


The models do look (from what we can see!) to be a bit on the big side to 'work' with the new AT Titan models - not sure though...

Hope they fit that scale though, as I've little interest in this game but a LOT of interest in EPIC returning, so I'm hoping this is another decent step on that (probably long) road.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:07:18


Post by: gruebot


 aka_mythos wrote:
Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


I like where you're going with this. I wanna play Killteam but with all Funko Pops!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:13:21


Post by: Orlanth


This posted today:




Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:21:02


Post by: aka_mythos


 gruebot wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


I like where you're going with this. I wanna play Killteam but with all Funko Pops!
I feel like you'd have to do something special for all the terrain for that game. I feel like it'd have longer legs as a licensed mobile video game... tonally friendly like a lego game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:48:23


Post by: Theophony


 aka_mythos wrote:
 gruebot wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


I like where you're going with this. I wanna play Killteam but with all Funko Pops!
I feel like you'd have to do something special for all the terrain for that game. I feel like it'd have longer legs as a licensed mobile video game... tonally friendly like a lego game.


I just want to see the doorways you build that are extra large on the top to fit the heads through


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:49:27


Post by: lord_blackfang


Hmmm those models don't even look to scale with each other, let alone other games. GW figured if Xwing can get away with it so can they?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 15:59:39


Post by: beast_gts


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hmmm those models don't even look to scale with each other, let alone other games. GW figured if Xwing can get away with it so can they?

Someone asked ‎Giuseppe Chiafele‎ (the artist who painted them) of FB -

[Thumb - AIATScale.jpg]


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:02:18


Post by: lord_blackfang


Maybe I'm wrong but shouldn't the Marauder be... not barely bigger than a fighter?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:02:41


Post by: Peregrine


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hmmm those models don't even look to scale with each other, let alone other games. GW figured if Xwing can get away with it so can they?


It's hard to say. Note that the product display shots are composites of images scaled so that each plane is about the same size on the screen. You can see that the base sizes don't match up at all, and if you scale the model size to correct for this you get something a lot closer to proper fighter vs. bomber scale. And the on-table shots look about right.

(Also, remember that the Thunderbolt model at 40k scale is larger than some superheavy tanks.)


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:05:42


Post by: Dynas


Can you combine this with the Titanicus? Its almost like they are releasing micro scale in batches to slowly recreate epic?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:20:51


Post by: His Master's Voice


The Forge World Thunderbolt fuselage is 10ish inches long and the Marauder is 15ish if I recall correctly, so the AI models seem to be scaled properly in relation to each other.

Kinda hard to gauge how they match up to the Titanicus stuff, but I'd be surprised if they were out of scale.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:22:04


Post by: Elbows


Nice looking minis. Don't like the bases (but that's easily fixed), and they do seem rather large for use with AT.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:24:52


Post by: LunarSol


Scale is really hard in a game where you can't really change base sizes too much.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:28:36


Post by: Elbows


Yep, but I suspect a good 50-60% of the people buying this stuff will end up using it for classic games of Epic, or combining it house-rules with AT etc. I agree though they're not going to go ham with sizing.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:29:36


Post by: xKillGorex


Have been looking at Blood red skies from Warlord but hot damn I’m in on this for sure.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:32:39


Post by: lord_blackfang


The change to a hex board is worrying also. Looks like the old system, which people praised a lot IIRC, is being thrown out.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:34:58


Post by: Chopstick


Doesn't seem out of scale to me, Thunderbolts are huge, they are not Chimeras with wings.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:35:53


Post by: zedmeister


 lord_blackfang wrote:
The change to a hex board is worrying also. Looks like the old system, which people praised a lot IIRC, is being thrown out.


I have a hunch that it won’t be that big a departure. The flight dials, damage, speed, fuel, ammo and altitude seem to be in place. The manoeuvring will be a lot more rigid with the hexes but there are a max of 10 manoeuvres like before with planes only able to perform a certain number


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:40:37


Post by: MarkNorfolk


On the group pics the bombers have been shrunk to fit on the page - check out the bases: they're slightly smaller images.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:54:36


Post by: Easy E


MUST BUY!

Shut up and take my money!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:55:19


Post by: Orlanth


Even with the image compression I think the Marauder is cut down a bit. I don't mind this, jet bombers don't need to be much larger than fighters. It would not be the first time a vehicle was rescaled.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 16:57:51


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Sqorgar wrote:
I was under the impression that this was going to be compatible with Adeptus Titanicus... is that not the case?


They never said that.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 17:31:34


Post by: Tastyfish


The old movement system was pretty much hex-based - it just used the manoeuvre cards to make it work on a board without a grid.

Just means something like a slow turn is move one hex forward and two hexs right and rotate one facing of the hex. High-G turn is then one hex forward and one right, rotate two faces on the hex.

Looks like there's a set of moves on the one of the sheets in the box picture. They're not all there, but the super agile fighters might come with the top level manoeuvres as part of their rules - so might the Aces decks.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 17:44:52


Post by: chaos0xomega


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong but shouldn't the Marauder be... not barely bigger than a fighter?


Nope. The size differences between aircraft (both in real world and in 40k terms) are actually pretty misleading.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 17:45:07


Post by: Chopstick


So.....Price speculation.?

And how they'll handle that core rulebook.... All the core race with their core aircraft in the book would be great, but I suspect they hold them all off for future book to release along new kit.

Worse they won't have any aircraft data in the book and only in card form.

Also bummer they didn't make any ground anti-air gun platform, or grot bomb :((

Also snippet from the video show that the overall attitude level had been reduced (to 5,6 max?), unless dakkajet is a low-flying fighter unlike the old "fighta"



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 17:57:16


Post by: zedmeister


Chopstick wrote:


Also bummer they didn't make any ground anti-air gun platform, or grot bomb :((


...yet. If they do ground defences like last time, expect Epic return hype to escalate!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 18:00:50


Post by: Alpharius


Too late - it already has!!!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 18:05:07


Post by: RazorEdge


Would not wonder if they bring rules to make the Imperial Fighters compatible to AT...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 18:13:18


Post by: Racerguy180


This looks pretty cool, the minis look great and I'm probably down for this. Unfortunately the impending Sororitas release has me pinching pennies, so maybe after credit card takes a breath.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 18:57:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Also nice to see GW have learned from the AT release.

Decent looking variety in the boxed game. Of course that’s just based on the first look. Who knows whether it’s a decent selection in-game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 19:13:53


Post by: Sabotage!


This tickles me, I definitely interested to see how the advance release rules are, because it seems like something that I would be into. I know a few people were bummed about the Orks inclusion in the base game, but personally I really like it. I love the idea of Ork fighter aces.....each with a "unique" fighter hand "customized" by them.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 19:18:34


Post by: Lord of Deeds


Can't put my finger on it, but as a first reveal, I am pretty underwhelmed, especially compared to the other specialist games.

The mini's look "okay". Honestly about I was expecting given the standard that X-Wing has set. However not really keen to paint them. Again, X-Wing might be affecting what I am wanting out of a dog fighting game.

Hope they have other factions ready to go as I seeing getting really bored quickly with IN and Orks.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 19:37:20


Post by: Chopstick


I was too busy eyeballing those Thunderbolt, now I've just noticed the Ork aircraft have a bit of customisation going on, different wings, fins, nose cone, and cockpit. Very nice.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 19:59:19


Post by: Stormonu


Hex board will be an easy fix, just like converting Battletech from hex maps to inch-based movement.

It will be nice if it is in AT scale, one step closer to having Epic back again (honestly, with the Apocalypse Rules, we’re pretty much already there, just could use models for ground vehicles and infantry)

Likely I’ll just pick up the Imperial models, no interest in orks. Would also pick up Tau and Tyranids if they come out too.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:09:31


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Lord of Deeds wrote:
Can't put my finger on it, but as a first reveal, I am pretty underwhelmed, especially compared to the other specialist games.

The mini's look "okay". Honestly about I was expecting given the standard that X-Wing has set. However not really keen to paint them. Again, X-Wing might be affecting what I am wanting out of a dog fighting game.

Hope they have other factions ready to go as I seeing getting really bored quickly with IN and Orks.



Considering X-Wing, there’s a few things this needs to get right if it’s going to tempt players away from FFG’s finest.

1) Price Point. This is actually fairly tricky. X-Wing is sometimes billed as cheap. But we know that’s not entirely true. Yes, it’s start up Cost is low, but due to the business model, a near constant buy in is required to keep up. So here, Aeronautica need only really match ship for ship cost. And each model should, ideally, come with all the bits needed to field it,

2) Accessibility. X-Wing doesn’t require a huge gaming area. 3x3 is all you need, which is easy enough. Looking at the pics, it seems Aeronautica may have nailed that, if the board we see is the standard play area, and not a ‘this will do for your first few games’. Being a board, that opens up Floorhammer at the very least. You can do that with X-Wing, but you still ideally need a mat or something to properly and clearly show the board edges.

3) Tactical Depth. I may have been put off X-Wing by the constant buy-in, but in its way, that’s a testament to the game’s tactical depth. Just a new card or two can really shake up what’s effective. This? Well we know nowt about the mechanics behind it at present. But, given its Hex based, I’m wondering if that’s intentional. I can see movement being in set hexes, and manoeuvres allowing for so many 30 degree turns, turning your straight line move into a more graceful arc. Speaking of arcs? Fire arcs. How do they work? I know X-Wing copped a bit of flack because of how turrets dominated at one point - but I believe that’s been addressed now?

4) Availability. Until relatively recently, all my X-Wing purchases were online only, as the UK isn’t exactly noted for its FLGS. But now I’ve got the Galactic Toy Store up the road, who stock at least a selection. And in the early days (I’m not up to speed on things at the moment) stuff sold out, and wouldn’t restock for weeks. If GW can keep this available? Not just online, but on FLGS shelves? So much the better.

5) Difficulty Curve. Another reason I fell out of love with X-Wing was that as someone with limited gaming opportunities, I just couldn’t compete with those who could play regularly. Yes that’s a sign of a decent game, as much depends on player skill (though it would’ve helped if my pilots could hit the Death Star from the inside!). But it’s not to my taste, as I quickly found my enjoyment sucked out, and myself suffering defeats so heavy, I just couldn’t learn anything. If Aeronautica’s rules reward experience, without ‘punishing’ newcomers? That’ll be a leg up.

Remember. It’s been a good two or three years since I played X-Wing, so I fully accept my knowledge is out of date, and many of the things I mentioned above could well have been addressed, spesh as it’s on a Second Edition.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:16:48


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


I'm happy that the main box is Orks vs Imperial Navy. I'm also happy tthey included the Fighta-Bomma and it's not totally being thrown down the memory hole.

If they come out with Heavy Bommerz in the future I would be extra-happy.

quote=Ratius 778581 10521827 ec97b3455d25310a00e49c9abf0633a1.jpg]Are the TBs a bit out of proportion to the Maras? (i.e. too big)?

And are those new pointy nosed Orks jets new?

I'm guessing they're just Dakkajets with pointy noses. The original Dakkajet/Blitza-Bommer/Burna-Bommer kit was great, but it could lead to too samey-looking Ork jets without converting.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:21:49


Post by: Stormonu


I haven’t played the original Aeronautica Imperialis, but if they treat it with the same contempt of a ruleset that they used for Stormcloud Attack, this game won’t go far.

I don’t know about others, but for me the big concerns are:

1) Rules - GW is already behind the 8-ball with this as they are known for their pants rules

2) Price - Again, a trouble point for US buyers; X-Wing prices have jumped, but the minis are already assembled and painted. If GW makes the mistake of releasing unassembled and unpainted sets at X-Wing++ prices, it’s going to go nowhere fast

3) Breath of selection - If GW does not expand the base model selection quickly - if it drips out models at the same pace as AT or worse - it will be quickly forgotten. At the least, if there is going to be slow release schedule GW needs to keep its base informed at what’s coming down the pipe for the game - something they are relatively bad at doing.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:25:06


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Looks like the dials on the base may also include altitude?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:26:15


Post by: Stormonu


BTW - on the close-up pictures of the T-Bolt and Marauder, notice that the T-bolt’s base is larger. For whatever reason, they blew up the T-bolt’s size so it looks like they’re the same size. If you look at the pictures of them on the game board, you can see the T-bolt is easily 3/4 the size of the marauder or just a might smaller.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks like the dials on the base may also include altitude?


Looks like 2 dials. By the marks (one a double-ended arrow, the other three overlaid arrowheads) one is for altitude, one is for speed.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:44:05


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


On GW’s rules. AT is either the exception that proves the rule, or a sign their specialist game designers really know their onions.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 20:58:11


Post by: zedmeister


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On GW’s rules. AT is either the exception that proves the rule, or a sign their specialist game designers really know their onions.


If this is tapping into the rules for the original Aeronautica, which it looks like it does, then this'll be one excellent game


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 21:42:55


Post by: RFT


I've got a small AI collection (4 thunderbolts, 2 lightnings, and a marauder) and eyballing it based on the video, it's the same scale as the old minis - and the bases look the same size - so it seems likely that I can just use my old minis.

I like the move to hexes- it should speed up play and deal with some of the worst aspects of X-wing (and Wings of Glory, Blood Red Skies)- those tournament moments where the lasers come out to measure fire arcs or a ship/plane gets bumped out of alignment.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 22:57:06


Post by: Strg Alt


Seems like a Dreadfleet release.

It's also worrying that the imperial model still looks like trash.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 23:05:01


Post by: CragHack


So far the AI release looks like:

-What the hell is this, X wing clone?
-Better release BFG
-Is this AT scale?
-Need more Heresy
-Need more 40k rules for 30k stuff
-X wing clone?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 23:24:12


Post by: Mentlegen324


 CragHack wrote:
So far the AI release looks like:

-What the hell is this, X wing clone?
-Better release BFG
-Is this AT scale?
-Need more Heresy
-Need more 40k rules for 30k stuff
-X wing clone?


Where have you seen any of those mentioned? The only one there that I've seen here has been the AT scale question, which is a perfectly valid thing to ask. The others just seem absurd though - Aeronautica Imperialis was a game released before X-wing was a thing, BFG is something that has been hinted at but they obviously can't do everything at once and a Heresy-themed game like this seems like it would be very, very limited regarding unit choices and future expansions.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 23:26:33


Post by: CragHack


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 CragHack wrote:
So far the AI release looks like:

-What the hell is this, X wing clone?
-Better release BFG
-Is this AT scale?
-Need more Heresy
-Need more 40k rules for 30k stuff
-X wing clone?


Where have you seen any of those mentioned? The only one there that I've seen here has been the AT scale question, which is a perfectly valid thing to ask. The others just seem absurd though - Aeronautica Imperialis was a game released before X-wing was a thing, BFG is something that has been hinted at but they obviously can't do everything at once and a Heresy-themed game like this seems like it would be very, very limited regarding unit choices and future expansions.


Just go through facebook comments, both at FW and other pages.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/01 23:32:12


Post by: Formerly Wu


RFT wrote:
I like the move to hexes- it should speed up play and deal with some of the worst aspects of X-wing (and Wings of Glory, Blood Red Skies)- those tournament moments where the lasers come out to measure fire arcs or a ship/plane gets bumped out of alignment.

This is also my least favorite part of X-Wing, and something I'm pleased to see them standardize. I imagine it's also made necessary by having dials built in to the bases.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 00:50:57


Post by: ingtaer


Really like the look of this. Don't mind at all that it is hex based as its easy enough to convert if needed. Just hope they don't take a year to release more stuff for it (Eldar especially) and that its not too pricey.
The first thing I will do with the models though is convert them to be useable in X-Wing...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 01:21:01


Post by: Crimson


I really just can't get exited about this. It is not visually interesting to me. It is just smaller 40K models, and not even particularly distinctive ones like the Titans for AT.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 01:24:00


Post by: Peregrine


 ingtaer wrote:
The first thing I will do with the models though is convert them to be useable in X-Wing...


Ugh, why? AI is just a much better game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 01:57:05


Post by: ingtaer


 Peregrine wrote:
 ingtaer wrote:
The first thing I will do with the models though is convert them to be useable in X-Wing...


Ugh, why? AI is just a much better game.


Primarily because I like the models whilst I hate the terrorists ones, secondly because it will irk a couple of my regular opponents and I enjoy poking fun at them. Also it will just be a case of magnetising them which will take about 20 seconds and I probably will do anyway.

Think we will get a game play video soonish (unless I ahve missed one)? Seems like GW are pretty quick to get them up now and would be keen to see how well it translates to hexes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 02:37:31


Post by: kestral


Hmmm - it looks like I could play it with full sized models with really big hexes, since the board does not look large.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It will need to be good to top X-wing for me though.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 03:42:12


Post by: Rolsheen


It might be time to bite the bullet and convert up a Marauder Vigilant from a stand Mara


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 05:42:27


Post by: schoon


Has anyone been able to figure out of the aircraft scale is the same as it was with AI1, or is it bigger/smaller?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:14:16


Post by: Yodhrin


 Strg Alt wrote:
Seems like a Dreadfleet release.

It's also worrying that the imperial model still looks like trash.


I mean, that's certainly an opinion. A wrong one, but an opinion nonetheless

Seriously though, who doesn't like Imperial warplanes? Weird.


 Formerly Wu wrote:
RFT wrote:
I like the move to hexes- it should speed up play and deal with some of the worst aspects of X-wing (and Wings of Glory, Blood Red Skies)- those tournament moments where the lasers come out to measure fire arcs or a ship/plane gets bumped out of alignment.

This is also my least favorite part of X-Wing, and something I'm pleased to see them standardize. I imagine it's also made necessary by having dials built in to the bases.


It's not, the original game had a more freeform movement system and it used basically the same bases - the bases record Altitude and Speed. Originally instead of hexes, the game used maneuver cards, which were assigned to planes in secret at the beginning of the round and then revealed and executed back & forth between the players. The actual gameplay was really quick, but it required proper tactical thinking to win because you were having to choose your maneuvers in the context of also second-guessing what maneuvers your enemy would use AND based on where you might want a plane to be several turns down the line.

They might be able to replicate that with hexes, but I don't like the way that it ties you to using game mats.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:24:34


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Could just be a practicality issue?

GW do seem to be pushing 'you don't need a separate board, and can play on a coffee table' of late for anything that isn't 40k, AoS or Apocalypse.

So by including a hex based board, you can easily setup the defined play area wherever you need it to be. Floorhammer, Kitchentablehammer, Nailtotheceilinghammer. All easily accessible, compared to needing to procure an area of specific dimensions, and marking it out.

And with Hexes, it allows for neat 30 degree turns, with no room for argument, without copying X-Wings flightpath system (which I believe is copyright? Or at least a trademark?).


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:33:38


Post by: zedmeister


The maneuver cards were, lets say, open to interpretation in terms of positioning. I had a few discussions with regards to correct facing.

Here's the original cards for example:

Spoiler:






Though, looking at the video, it seems that they are keeping the secret maneuvering choice through numbered counters next your planes. That's to be applauded. To be honest, bar the hexes, on the face of it the game appears to be very similar to the original



EDIT

Here is an original thunderbolt profile for comparison to the screencaps from the vid:
Spoiler:





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:39:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Now, all I really need to know is can I complete a game in the time it takes to listen to Iron Maiden's 'Tailgunner, Death or Glory and Aces High'?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:43:49


Post by: ingtaer


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now, all I really need to know is can I complete a game in the time it takes to listen to Iron Maiden's 'Tailgunner, Death or Glory and Aces High'?


Better question is how many games can you play before you get bored of listening to Iron Maiden's 'Tailgunner, Death or Glory and Aces High'?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:54:03


Post by: Ratius


I know nothing about the old AI rules but why would you have a transport stat?
Theres no ground combat in it?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 09:55:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 ingtaer wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now, all I really need to know is can I complete a game in the time it takes to listen to Iron Maiden's 'Tailgunner, Death or Glory and Aces High'?


Better question is how many games can you play before you get bored of listening to Iron Maiden's 'Tailgunner, Death or Glory and Aces High'?


Infinite.

Next question




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ratius wrote:
I know nothing about the old AI rules but why would you have a transport stat?
Theres no ground combat in it?


Mission variation would be my guess. Add a victory condition of 'you must get X points worth of Transport capacity off the specified board edge' type thing.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 10:00:18


Post by: zedmeister


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I know nothing about the old AI rules but why would you have a transport stat?
Theres no ground combat in it?


Mission variation would be my guess. Add a victory condition of 'you must get X points worth of Transport capacity off the specified board edge' type thing.


Indeed, you had Arvus Lighters, Aquilia Landers, Thunderhawks and other races transport craft. There were landing scenarios where you had to land your craft and you score more points for more transport points you get across the board or onto the landing zone. This involved not only getting across the board but dropping in altitude. So you could set up ambushes for when they drop to a certain level and so on.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 10:00:26


Post by: Chopstick


 Ratius wrote:
I know nothing about the old AI rules but why would you have a transport stat?
Theres no ground combat in it?


There are ground combat, you can only drop bomb on ground target, and some weapons can only target ground targets. There are rule for landing and there are mission that require you to deliver supplies or troops, in such mission you're forced to take aircraft with transport capacity.

There are also anti air gun platform on ground level.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 10:18:49


Post by: Ratius


Sounds cool


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 10:20:16


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Can I beg a favour? To keep info on the new version clean, can peeps be specific when talking about it's former incarnation?

Will help prevent confusion in later chats etc


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 10:32:06


Post by: Chopstick


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Can I beg a favour? To keep info on the new version clean, can peeps be specific when talking about it's former incarnation?

Will help prevent confusion in later chats etc


There're little info about new version at the moment. Only speculation.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 11:10:17


Post by: Glumy


I am very interested in Aeronautica. Mostly because its a tabletop boardgame mishmash with hexes. If there werent any hexes and it was a typical tabletop wargame i would just wait for the BFG.

I will be closely looking at the game and im interested in the rules. Especially because such boardgames can be played with people not usually accustomed to tabletop. So in other words i can play a tactical game in the world of 40k with normies.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 12:00:08


Post by: Peregrine


The scale looks fine:





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 15:49:13


Post by: Easy E


I will buy up tons of these to flesh out my old AI forces. I never had a proper Imperial force.

For those who never played the old AI, you can read up on it here. It looks like the gameplay is similar but replacing the free form movement with hexes. Even if I hate the new version, I still have the old one.

OLD AI REVIEW:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/02/review-aeronautica-imperialis-forgeworld.html

There are also a ton of batreps on that blog if you want a feel for how it played/plays but they use expanded rules and aircraft.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 15:58:31


Post by: Commander Cain


I'll buy some imperial fighters if it turns out they scale up nicely with AT. I think they look a bit big because the fighters are absurdly large even in 40K scale, I can't find a single picture of them next to a titan though so it's hard to say!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 16:19:56


Post by: AndrewGPaul


No, the Forge World fighters are reasonably "normal", while the Citadel ones are a bit small.

this is the Thunderbolt next to a Warhound (both 40k sized).

For scaling, a Warhound is 12.1m long ( IA vol 3 1st edition), the Thunderbolt is 14.2m long (IA vol 1 1st edition p224) and an F-15 is 19.4m long (Wikipedia). Aeroplanes are big.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 16:33:36


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


So is this the same scale as the old AI game? If so, I'll buy as many as is reasonable for the price because I loved AI and have a few incomplete squadrons. Always wanted to add Marauders but they sold out fast when the game died and cost a fortune on ebay (if you can even find them!).

If it's not the same scale I'll buy a box still, because AI was a great game and the models look great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


Hells no It looks like they're downscaling this game a bit, the original AI required a decent sized table in spite of being 6mm, and it worked well because it gave the aircraft space to move. Trying to play it in 28mm would be a nightmare (either for needing absurdly big boards, or compressing all the action down).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No, the Forge World fighters are reasonably "normal", while the Citadel ones are a bit small.

this is the Thunderbolt next to a Warhound (both 40k sized).

For scaling, a Warhound is 12.1m long ( IA vol 3 1st edition), the Thunderbolt is 14.2m long (IA vol 1 1st edition p224) and an F-15 is 19.4m long (Wikipedia). Aeroplanes are big.
In general FW tend to scale their things correctly. It's GW proper who make vehicles that are too small to actually fit people in, FW (as long as they are given free reign from the start) tend to make vehicles that are actually the correct size.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/02 17:31:37


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Hells no It looks like they're downscaling this game a bit, the original AI required a decent sized table in spite of being 6mm, and it worked well because it gave the aircraft space to move. Trying to play it in 28mm would be a nightmare (either for needing absurdly big boards, or compressing all the action down).

A few weeks ago I was trying to think of how to play a 40k dogfighting game at 28mm, and I was thinking that maybe it would be best to take a hint from BFG and say that the planes weren't to scale with the actual game and measure to the flight stand. Of course then it wouldn't exactly be a 28mm game.

On the other hand movement and weapon ranges are basically never to scale with 28mm games anyway.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 02:08:02


Post by: stormwell


 schoon wrote:
Has anyone been able to figure out of the aircraft scale is the same as it was with AI1, or is it bigger/smaller?


I've seen people saying that the scale is the same.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 03:48:24


Post by: Breotan


 stormwell wrote:
 schoon wrote:
Has anyone been able to figure out of the aircraft scale is the same as it was with AI1, or is it bigger/smaller?


I've seen people saying that the scale is the same.

It's a hex board so down the road as more stuff is released, it's possible that some of the larger aircraft might not be to scale.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 04:22:46


Post by: Flinty


GWs games are already somewhat flexible with respect to scale for certain vehicles anyway. I wouldn't fret too much.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 06:47:42


Post by: Tokhuah


It is not really a flying game unless there is a game mechanism that addresses vertical movement. It is the various angles of attack that makes flying cool. If you are just pushing airplane minis across a table without accounting for vertical movement it is more of a tank game on stilts like x-wing. I need to know more before calling tower for take-off. Holding short...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 06:54:59


Post by: Chopstick


 Tokhuah wrote:
It is not really a flying game unless there is a game mechanism that addresses vertical movement. It is the various angles of attack that makes flying cool. If you are just pushing airplane minis across a table without accounting for vertical movement it is more of a tank game on stilts like x-wing. I need to know more before calling tower for take-off. Holding short...


There're speed and attitude, which still remain in this new edition if you look at the Aircraft card.

Also if you look at the aircraft minis base you can see 2 dial on it, one with double headed arrow, i guess is the attitude dial, and the other with 3 arrow is the speed dial.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 08:04:11


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Tokhuah wrote:
It is not really a flying game unless there is a game mechanism that addresses vertical movement. It is the various angles of attack that makes flying cool. If you are just pushing airplane minis across a table without accounting for vertical movement it is more of a tank game on stilts like x-wing. I need to know more before calling tower for take-off. Holding short...


The old AI game had variable speed and altitude and fixed manoeuvres.

It looks like the new AI uses the same bases as the old one (more stylised, but functionally the same) with an altitude dial on the one side of the base and a speed dial on the other.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 08:07:19


Post by: Racerguy180


I wonder how pose-able the minis will be? like is there any pitch and attitude to how you can angle the model(for pictures)?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/03 20:16:18


Post by: Tastyfish


 Tokhuah wrote:
It is not really a flying game unless there is a game mechanism that addresses vertical movement. It is the various angles of attack that makes flying cool. If you are just pushing airplane minis across a table without accounting for vertical movement it is more of a tank game on stilts like x-wing. I need to know more before calling tower for take-off. Holding short...


In the old Aeronautica at the very basic level Altitude was just a form of invisible terrain - you can only shoot aircraft at the same level as you (hitting on a 5+) or one higher or lower than you (hitting on a 6+).

The other key area it came into were the manoeuvres, generally ascending cost you speed and descending gained it - a large Bomber that has come in slowly in order to get an accurate hit on it's target is going to struggle to pick up speed to outpace an incoming fighter with engine power alone, but using a powerdive could rapidly build up speed for it's escape moves. Alternatively a transport or bomber could start the mission quite high and fast with it's escorts below it knowing that any interceptors are going to be burning speed as they climb to catch them (if they could, not all aircraft can operate at Altitude 9 at the very edge of the atmosphere) - though in the transport's case this definitely comes at a cost, as you have to land by playing a straight move card that will set your speed and altitude to 0. Not all of them are capable of rapidly decelerating and losing altitude at the same time, so you might be safe for a turn or two, but after that your movements are very predictable without an ace pilot.

Fighters also have a minimum speed, and operating around that level can be a way of avoiding tailing if you're in a dogfight. Not only can you use your minimum speed to brake hard and let the opponent overshoot you, but if you've got different minimums then you might be able to lose a tail by climbing hard - shedding speed to gain altitude knowing that your pursuer either has to waste ammo on a tricky shot (most fighters only have ammo to shoot 3-4 turns out of 8-9 with their main guns, let alone those with missiles) or break off and try again from a different approach. Have a look at the cards on the previous page and see that the two reverse direction ones (half loop high or wing over) don't have the same speed and altitude costs.

It really was a very good game, and captured the feel of the open sky pretty well by turning it into an aspect of your movement rather than making the game about these 3D angles. Altitude and speed were more weapons you used to out-manoeuvre your opponent rather something that tracked your position in 3D space. The fact that the two were integrally linked was key.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/04 16:48:48


Post by: Yodhrin


Just spotted something very slick linked over on the Aeronautica Imperialis facebook group(the proper original one, not the one run by the Games Workshop Volunteer Copyright Police Force - if it has a year in its name, scroll on by folks), for anyone thinking of giving the original game a go or digging their copy out but who's a bit underwhelmed by the original simple maneuver cards: the OKB-14 blog has a redesigned version of the cards with precise cutouts for the hex bases, that can be printed off and stuck to a piece of cardstock or foamcore.

They might need a wee edit depending on the size of the new bases, but that shouldn't be much effort.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/04 19:08:20


Post by: Xanthos


 Yodhrin wrote:
Just spotted something very slick linked over on the Aeronautica Imperialis facebook group(the proper original one, not the one run by the Games Workshop Volunteer Copyright Police Force - if it has a year in its name, scroll on by folks), for anyone thinking of giving the original game a go or digging their copy out but who's a bit underwhelmed by the original simple maneuver cards: the OKB-14 blog has a redesigned version of the cards with precise cutouts for the hex bases, that can be printed off and stuck to a piece of cardstock or foamcore.

They might need a wee edit depending on the size of the new bases, but that shouldn't be much effort.


Great find! Those are certainly better than the original ones.
I am very excited that we're getting a new version, been poking at the FW staff for years now, asking for its return.:-)


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 06:48:43


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


A few people have drawn up templates that include the hex cut out over the years, they definitely help a bit. Though I never had a huge issue with the original ones, the originals had arrows on them and the bases had arrows, so I'd just line up the arrows on the base with the arrows on the cards.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 08:36:47


Post by: archont


My real question is;
will there ever be support for Xenos? Reason #1 none of my gaming group has bought into Titanicus is, that fully half of us dont play imperial factions.

Aeronautica at least brings Orcs, but honestly I dont see it taking off if its impossible to have everyone participate.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 08:54:43


Post by: Chopstick


 archont wrote:
My real question is;
will there ever be support for Xenos? Reason #1 none of my gaming group has bought into Titanicus is, that fully half of us dont play imperial factions.

Aeronautica at least brings Orcs, but honestly I dont see it taking off if its impossible to have everyone participate.


Space Marine, Orks, Eldar, Chaos and Tau are the other mainstay faction in the old game. It'd be natural to expect they'd come.

Although i can be pretty certain that the Imperial and Space Marine will get the most units and expansion.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 08:55:10


Post by: zedmeister


 archont wrote:
My real question is;
will there ever be support for Xenos? Reason #1 none of my gaming group has bought into Titanicus is, that fully half of us dont play imperial factions.

Aeronautica at least brings Orcs, but honestly I dont see it taking off if its impossible to have everyone participate.


They have Orks. How much more clarification do you need? They've stated in the video that they have expansions planned.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 09:29:46


Post by: RiTides


Wow, at first glance this looks totally awesome!!

Is there a somewhat complete list of what old models were released for Aeronautica Imperialis anywhere? Google has come up empty for me, was hoping to find a page with pics of everything


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 09:35:25


Post by: RFT


Tastyfish wrote:
 Tokhuah wrote:
It is not really a flying game unless there is a game mechanism that addresses vertical movement. It is the various angles of attack that makes flying cool. If you are just pushing airplane minis across a table without accounting for vertical movement it is more of a tank game on stilts like x-wing. I need to know more before calling tower for take-off. Holding short...


In the old Aeronautica at the very basic level Altitude was just a form of invisible terrain - you can only shoot aircraft at the same level as you (hitting on a 5+) or one higher or lower than you (hitting on a 6+).

The other key area it came into were the manoeuvres, generally ascending cost you speed and descending gained it - a large Bomber that has come in slowly in order to get an accurate hit on it's target is going to struggle to pick up speed to outpace an incoming fighter with engine power alone, but using a powerdive could rapidly build up speed for it's escape moves. Alternatively a transport or bomber could start the mission quite high and fast with it's escorts below it knowing that any interceptors are going to be burning speed as they climb to catch them (if they could, not all aircraft can operate at Altitude 9 at the very edge of the atmosphere) - though in the transport's case this definitely comes at a cost, as you have to land by playing a straight move card that will set your speed and altitude to 0. Not all of them are capable of rapidly decelerating and losing altitude at the same time, so you might be safe for a turn or two, but after that your movements are very predictable without an ace pilot.

Fighters also have a minimum speed, and operating around that level can be a way of avoiding tailing if you're in a dogfight. Not only can you use your minimum speed to brake hard and let the opponent overshoot you, but if you've got different minimums then you might be able to lose a tail by climbing hard - shedding speed to gain altitude knowing that your pursuer either has to waste ammo on a tricky shot (most fighters only have ammo to shoot 3-4 turns out of 8-9 with their main guns, let alone those with missiles) or break off and try again from a different approach. Have a look at the cards on the previous page and see that the two reverse direction ones (half loop high or wing over) don't have the same speed and altitude costs.

It really was a very good game, and captured the feel of the open sky pretty well by turning it into an aspect of your movement rather than making the game about these 3D angles. Altitude and speed were more weapons you used to out-manoeuvre your opponent rather something that tracked your position in 3D space. The fact that the two were integrally linked was key.


Yeah- you couldn't really fight in the vertical, but energy management was critical, which is key. It's WW2/korea dogfighting, not modern. The couple of simple 2v2 games I played back when I bought it were great - and applying real-world tactics and formations worked well, which is alwatys a sign of a good system.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 09:37:57


Post by: Chopstick


 RiTides wrote:
Wow, at first glance this looks totally awesome!!

Is there a somewhat complete list of what old models were released for Aeronautica Imperialis anywhere? Google has come up empty for me, was hoping to find a page with pics of everything

Spoiler:


BRB + Tactica expansion.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 09:41:52


Post by: zedmeister


The only thing they didn't release on that list above was the Hyperios Battery for space marines and the 'eavy Flak Kannon for the Orks. Everything else had a model.

Edit:

This thread has a good mix of images of the old models (Under the Epic section):
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/659902.page


2nd Edit:

I had forgotten about the Ork Bommers. Fun looking rust buckets:

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Heavy_Bommer


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 09:57:21


Post by: RiTides


Thanks for the super fast replies and resources, guys!!

That model list is perfect . Also really appreciate the pics links, but I'm surprised there isn't a more comprehensive one! Looks like this is an issue with FW in general... maybe I'll have to make one



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 13:26:19


Post by: Crimson


So about how many models you need to reasonably play this? I said that I wasn't particularly interested, but if it can be played with just a handful of models I might give it a go.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 13:36:59


Post by: Chopstick


 Crimson wrote:
So about how many models you need to reasonably play this? I said that I wasn't particularly interested, but if it can be played with just a handful of models I might give it a go.


Depend on the scenario, scenario usually have a "canon force" with fixed units for both side, and an "alternative force" where you can build your own force with point + some restriction (like taking transport, bomber etc..) Small fight ranging from 60-100 pts, while large battle could go above 200 points.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 14:14:09


Post by: Easy E


Depends on the faction, but you will probably want at least:

4 Fighters
1 Bomber
1 Transport (Unless they are transport 1, then you will want 3)
3 Ground Defenses


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 14:44:32


Post by: RiTides


How long does a game usually take for you, Easy E? I'm guessing it might be faster now with hexes, too


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 15:24:50


Post by: aka_mythos


AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
Anyone else want to play this at full 28mm scale?


Hells no It looks like they're downscaling this game a bit, the original AI required a decent sized table in spite of being 6mm, and it worked well because it gave the aircraft space to move. Trying to play it in 28mm would be a nightmare (either for needing absurdly big boards, or compressing all the action down).
If you take the provided game board and scale it to 28mm its between 8'x8' and 9'x9'. At least around here people use a bunch of fold out 4'x8' tables so while pushing 2 together gives you something that isn't easiest to reach to the center I've played games on tables that big before and it isn't too bad.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 15:50:01


Post by: witchdoctor


28mm scale Aeronautica was a thing:


Games Day 2007

Forgeworld brought the movement cards printed on 2'x3' foamcore boards IIRC.


There was also a 40K mini-game a few years ago with splash releases of flyers. I never bought or played it, but it seemed pretty fun for small scale dogfighting.

Aeronautica is hands down the cleanest most fun ruleset to come from GW (though I haven't played AT, but heard it's good.) I think the hex movement will make things even cleaner and faster.

My hope for some additional rules improvements over the original are:
1) Thunderbolts were too good for 20 points compared to everything else.
2) High Maneuver wasn't actually that much of an advantage, certainly not what you traded off for it.
3) Arvus Spam, it was a beer and pretzels game, but we messed around with ways to break it. You could bring 4-5 arvus lighters and 4 thuds at 100 points, and force your opponent to show his moves while you shuffled around 4 point transports, and then move the fighters in for the kill. This also hurt Eldar vs. Chaos or Orks.
4) Better air to air options for Tau. They had 5 different transport/bomber options but only one middling fighter-attack aircraft. Tigershark should've been to the thunderbolt what a hammerhead is to a leman russ.
5) Cheaper Eldar. They were good, but not 50% more expensive than Imperial or 100% more than Ork Good. I think this has something to do with points 1 and 2.

Either, way. I'm stoked for the re-release and future supplements.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 17:15:39


Post by: RiTides


witchdoctor wrote:
Aeronautica is hands down the cleanest most fun ruleset to come from GW (though I haven't played AT, but heard it's good.) I think the hex movement will make things even cleaner and faster.

That is really encouraging

Can't wait for more info!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 17:40:34


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


I'm actually more worried the hex movement will kill the quality of the game by making it too cramped. The old AI gave a reasonably good sense of space, models moved a reasonable distance relative to the actual size of the models and their bases. You could cover reasonable portions of the table when moving fast, or get in to a lower speed turning dogfight. I'm looking at the hex table thinking "damned that's small... perhaps too small?".

There are other hex based dog fighting games out there, but I haven't liked them as much as AI.

But we'll see, it's still early.

I still haven't played "Blood Red Skies", but that seems to be in a similar realm to the original AI.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 17:45:32


Post by: Tastyfish


I've just assumed it's the same rules but with all the ranges halved.

As for game size - dogfight would normally be between 3-5 planes a piece taking about 30-45min. And a lot of the missions were definitely geared towards the smaller side of things and you only had 8 turns worth of fuel.

I can remember if it was a house rule or something they recommended, but I vaguely remember quite a tight time limit in the plotting phase (when you place your secret orders). 10secs a plane or something like that or you just go straight.
Definitely kept the game fast.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 17:48:10


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The hex map is bringing back good Crimson Skies vibes. If it's a little small for our taste either concert the rules to hexless tabletop (like BattleTech; simply multiply all ranges by whatever number of inches you want, and all turns are multiples of 30degrees) or get a mat with bigger hexes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 18:09:20


Post by: RiTides


Hexes is what has me the most interested! The fiddliness of bumping ships in X-wing / etc was always a bummer for me, especially in games where you need to interact with the base (like Dropfleet).

Obviously we'll have to see how it's implemented, but this is what I've loved about Underworlds, as well - removing measurement / adjustment time speeds things up immensely!



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/05 18:27:15


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


I think hexes could work, but it'd need to be a really big hex board to work. The one in the AI picture seems to be roughly 13 by 15 hexes large, that doesn't really seem large enough for an air combat game, but we'll see how it goes when it comes out, I'll grab at least one copy either way for no other reason than I need some Marauder bombers for my existing Imperial squadron


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/06 15:55:31


Post by: Easy E


 RiTides wrote:
How long does a game usually take for you, Easy E? I'm guessing it might be faster now with hexes, too


That depended a lot on how things went. For example, I have had a game end in 3 turns, and some last the maximum of 12 (IIRC). The three turn games took longer to set-up then to play because I foolishly went head-to-head with Chaos 1 hit HellBlades against Tau Barracuda with good front firepower. Once I lost three B'Blades, the game was over. Lesson learned!

Typically, they are between 45 minutes to 2 hours depending on how good you are at avoiding the kill zone. Dogfights tend to take longer than ground attack or other missions as your planes can go anywhere. In a mission oriented game, the planes tend to have to "be somewhere" to achieve their mission which means you can predict the location of enemy planes easier to shoot them down.

Edit: Speaking of a quick game..... Aeronautica Imperialis!- Old Skool

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2019/08/battle-report-aeronautica-imperialis.html


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 15:09:17


Post by: RiTides


From the Aeronautica Imperialis Facebook group:



Price looks great, this release has come really quickly!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 16:14:37


Post by: zedmeister


Oooo, nice price. Glad it’s low, as the inevitable card packs will push the cost up


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 16:27:54


Post by: BrookM


If true, oh my days!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:18:28


Post by: Racerguy180


that's a great price for the starter set.

Any guesses on $€£¥ for the models? I'm inclined to think $30-35 range for fighters & gunships & $35-40 for bombers etc...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:42:12


Post by: BrookM


€70,- is decent enough for the main set I suppose. I just hope I can hop on in time to get all the extra cards as well, before they inevitably sell out within minutes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:48:09


Post by: Crimson


How many planes are in the starter box?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:50:47


Post by: beast_gts


 Crimson wrote:
How many planes are in the starter box?

9 - 4 Imperial & 5 Ork.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:51:17


Post by: BrookM


Two Thunderbolts, two Marauders, three Dakkajets, two Fighta bommers:





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 17:53:27


Post by: Crimson


Seems like a pretty decent deal.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 18:15:33


Post by: Overread


That's a really low buy-in price that should see it sell LOADS of copies which is good for the health of the game at launch which might well translate into more aircraft from more races!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 18:28:35


Post by: stonehorse


Hopefully the game is as good as the previous edition, I do wonder about the map. While Hex based games are great, that map looks far too small for a game about airplanes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 18:50:13


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Is that $90? I'm not sure what "tier" 55 pounds is. $90 doesn't seem like a great deal to me. I guess kind of what I'd expect, really.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 18:57:30


Post by: lord_blackfang


I heard the first wave of releases will have a bigger board, campaign book, cards, dice and terrain. I hope this doesn't mean the starter will just have a demo version and you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the full game like in Necromunda.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 19:09:06


Post by: BrookM


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Is that $90? I'm not sure what "tier" 55 pounds is. $90 doesn't seem like a great deal to me. I guess kind of what I'd expect, really.
It's the same price as a Start Collecting! Astra Militarum boxed set.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 19:20:33


Post by: Togusa


Adeptus Titanicus is a lot of fun, and that team did an excellent job of capturing the feel and scale of the titans. I'm hopeful that AI will bring the same to the table, and the deal on the starter set is actually pretty decent.

Between AT and AI, I might sell out of 40K entirely (not happy with the game anymore anyways) and move exclusively over to these two games.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 19:22:15


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Well that starter price point has bumped the game from "meh" to "might as well give it a go" in my eyes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 19:26:09


Post by: Strombones


Great looking models. Happy to see the specialist games chugging along. Man Id kill for a proper epic release.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 20:25:44


Post by: Sabotage!


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard the first wave of releases will have a bigger board, campaign book, cards, dice and terrain. I hope this doesn't mean the starter will just have a demo version and you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the full game like in Necromunda.


I hope that's the case as well, Necromunda was a disaster. Hopefully the campaign book is just a series of special scenarios and some cool fluff, and not a core part of the game that is excluded in the starter (like Necromunda). If the cards are just more pilots/upgrades/skills I can live with that, but if all those things are necessary to experience the game I will probably pass on the reasonably priced starter and skip the game all together. Again, I'd have no problem picking up the extras if I enjoy the game enough, but I don't want to have to pick them up to experience the game in full.

Also here's hoping the cards aren't a "limited time only" deal like was the case with Necromunda.

I'm looking forward to seeing the prerelease reviews from GMG and the various other online outlets next week.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/22 21:33:52


Post by: Chopstick


Nice, finger crossed for Destroyer variant of the marauder.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 00:11:47


Post by: Stormonu


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard the first wave of releases will have a bigger board, campaign book, cards, dice and terrain. I hope this doesn't mean the starter will just have a demo version and you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the full game like in Necromunda.


Of course it will. This is GW we are talking about. Rope 'em in with a "that's not as badly overpriced as the rest of the line" and then suck them dry on purchases to get to an "acceptable" level for the game.

Saying that, I *might* pick up the base rules and Imperial side - but only if I can get confirmation we'll see Tau fighters down the line (and something better than the existing 40K versions).


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 00:41:14


Post by: Sqorgar


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I hope this doesn't mean the starter will just have a demo version and you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the full game like in Necromunda.
Also Blood Bowl, but nobody ever complains about that one.

Frankly, it isn't a terrible idea. Aeronautica Imperialis is not a household name and the hype seems extremely limited, so they need a cheap way for people to demo the game. If the buy in is $170 (like Warcry and Kill Team starters) or $300 (Adeptus Titanicus), fewer people will bother to try it out. Even at, what? $90?, it's just a bit too high for me to try, sight unseen - but it is low enough that good word of mouth can convince me to pick it up. But at $170, no way. That's Blackstone Fortress expansion levels of nope.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 02:00:08


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Is there a shot of these planes next to something else? How big are they supposed to be? Because $90 for a stater set with 9 models doesn't seem like a great deal. Even comparing to other GW stuff. But maybe they are much bigger than I'm picturing.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 02:16:31


Post by: Chopstick


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Is there a shot of these planes next to something else? How big are they supposed to be? Because $90 for a stater set with 9 models doesn't seem like a great deal. Even comparing to other GW stuff. But maybe they are much bigger than I'm picturing.


Next to player's hands, from the trailers.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 02:29:10


Post by: MajorWesJanson


Chopstick wrote:
Nice, finger crossed for Destroyer variant of the marauder.

Probably as a resin upgrade kit that will sell out in moments and never reappear on the US version of the FW site.

Didn't expect it this early. Still, may grab a starter to add to my backlog of models and games. If they are broken up on ebay, may grab a few spares, I may get a few to wreck and use at AT scenery.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 02:43:23


Post by: ingtaer


Pleasantly surprised that its so cheap. Look forward to picking it up in a couple of months, just hope they have an aggressive release schedule for it.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 02:55:03


Post by: Yodhrin


I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 05:39:00


Post by: schoon


This is coming sooner than I expected.

I have faith (though it's someone's misplaced) that the game will be at least as fun as the old version.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:37:34


Post by: Tyranid Horde


This is another tempting set, but it may be better for me to wait until Eldar see a release. The price is pretty surprising though!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:40:32


Post by: Overread


The price suggests that GW wants this very niche game to sell well as a core set - hence putting it on a really low value. A really low buy-in is going to generate a lot more interest and get more people at least collecting the models and casually playing. It also suggests to me that GW know some are going to buy into it to get the models in anticipation of a potential Epic re-release in the future. Again generating that casual buying interest.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:49:55


Post by: stonehorse


I reckon that the low buy in price is to directly compete with FFG's X-wing. How much is a starter X-wing set these days, £30-£40?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:54:50


Post by: tneva82


 Strombones wrote:
Great looking models. Happy to see the specialist games chugging along. Man Id kill for a proper epic release.


Yeah. Loved the AT and while airplanes have never interested me that much in 2d games and so I'll be passing this I'm still hoping for rerelease of epic. THAT would get expensive.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:56:14


Post by: Overread


Yes and no - X-Wing is a prepainted Starwars. Competing with that is tough because many will buy into it for both those reasons alone and neither is an area GW can compete on really.

The low price might also be more because its competing with GW's own somewhat bloated specialist game market. GW has grown it really fast and I suspect they are pitching a lower price buy-in so that it appears attractive against games like Warcry, AT, Bloodbowl etc...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:56:49


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


At that price?

I’m in, hands down.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 08:57:12


Post by: tneva82


 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


Well knowing FW you can get that pretty much to spot on if you know what size they are in technical info in FW fluff books. From that what size they would be in 6mm scale gives you the answer.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:12:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Nice, finger crossed for Destroyer variant of the marauder.

Probably as a resin upgrade kit that will sell out in moments and never reappear on the US version of the FW site.

Didn't expect it this early. Still, may grab a starter to add to my backlog of models and games. If they are broken up on ebay, may grab a few spares, I may get a few to wreck and use at AT scenery.


Is alright. I’m happy to play international arms dealer


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:22:57


Post by: zedmeister


Spotted on B&C - note comment about being the same scale as AT - Epic, here we come!



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:28:56


Post by: Yodhrin


tneva82 wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


Well knowing FW you can get that pretty much to spot on if you know what size they are in technical info in FW fluff books. From that what size they would be in 6mm scale gives you the answer.


It would indeed, if they were keeping to a consistent scale. Instead, they're taking whatever size the 40K version of the model is and quartering it. Since the 40K vehicles are all over the joint, so will the AT/AI/potential nuEpic models be.

I'm scaling everything based on the Titans at ~1:260, and I know what size the vehicles all *should* be in that scale, but whether the AI planes will match that I won't know until someone measures the models.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:33:42


Post by: Apologist


 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


In case it's useful, the resin Marauder Forge World released for Epic/the old Aeronautica Imperialis measured 85mm from rear gun tip to front gun tip, and (despite the parallax error from my photo!) 85mm from wingtip to wingtip. From the previews, the bases – and thus 'planes – look identical in size.

Images spoilered, just to avoid anyone inadvertently jumping to conclusions – to be clear, this is the old resin version, not the upcoming (presumably) plastic version, posted only for reference. Apologies for the WIP paintjob, too!
Spoiler:






Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:52:19


Post by: Yodhrin


 Apologist wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


In case it's useful, the resin Marauder Forge World released for Epic/the old Aeronautica Imperialis measured 85mm from rear gun tip to front gun tip, and (despite the parallax error from my photo!) 85mm from wingtip to wingtip. From the previews, the bases – and thus 'planes – look identical in size.

Images spoilered, just to avoid anyone inadvertently jumping to conclusions – to be clear, this is the old resin version, not the upcoming (presumably) plastic version, posted only for reference. Apologies for the WIP paintjob, too!
Spoiler:






Well if they're remaining consistent, the new ones should be larger, since IIRC the "rule" for the FW Epic models was 1/5 40K scale, while the "rule" for AT models is 1/4 40K scale. I'll just have to hope one of the people who gets sent a demo copy takes some measurements.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 09:52:26


Post by: Cronch


Oof, that's a little much at full retail considering you're getting just a handful of jets. Judging by previous comments, I'm just not seeing the value others are.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 10:27:30


Post by: Chopstick


Cronch wrote:
Oof, that's a little much at full retail considering you're getting just a handful of jets. Judging by previous comments, I'm just not seeing the value others are.


You also get the rule book and depend on how they handle the kit, could be 2019 GW price or a reasonable one.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 10:34:10


Post by: Yodhrin


Cronch wrote:
Oof, that's a little much at full retail considering you're getting just a handful of jets. Judging by previous comments, I'm just not seeing the value others are.


I mean, we can't really speak to the new system yet, but in the first iteration of AI that box would contain two almost complete armies. You might want to add one, maybe two extra planes and that'd be you sorted.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 11:15:22


Post by: Sabotage!


 Overread wrote:
The price suggests that GW wants this very niche game to sell well as a core set - hence putting it on a really low value. A really low buy-in is going to generate a lot more interest and get more people at least collecting the models and casually playing. It also suggests to me that GW know some are going to buy into it to get the models in anticipation of a potential Epic re-release in the future. Again generating that casual buying interest.



I think competing with their additional games is definitely part of it. I think part of it is what's in the box. If they tried to charge 170 USD for 9 small miniatures, some dice, a board, and a rulebook compared to say Warcry which includes a boatload of terrain, 29 large(r) miniatures, dice, rulebook, 4 card decks, etc. it would just look really bad.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cronch wrote:
Oof, that's a little much at full retail considering you're getting just a handful of jets. Judging by previous comments, I'm just not seeing the value others are.


I think that's a valid opinion, it isn't a lot of minis for what is probably 90 USD. But it also includes a rulebook and if it's a complete rulebook (unlike the Necromunda starter), that's a pretty good value for a complete mini game in a box (from GW). Especially if most fighter Squadrons are 4-6 fighters, which seems to be the case in the older version of the game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 11:40:26


Post by: tneva82


 Yodhrin wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


Well knowing FW you can get that pretty much to spot on if you know what size they are in technical info in FW fluff books. From that what size they would be in 6mm scale gives you the answer.


It would indeed, if they were keeping to a consistent scale. Instead, they're taking whatever size the 40K version of the model is and quartering it. Since the 40K vehicles are all over the joint, so will the AT/AI/potential nuEpic models be.

I'm scaling everything based on the Titans at ~1:260, and I know what size the vehicles all *should* be in that scale, but whether the AI planes will match that I won't know until someone measures the models.


Doesn't look like quartering since that would result in 8mm being titan scale but it's 6mm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Well if they're remaining consistent, the new ones should be larger, since IIRC the "rule" for the FW Epic models was 1/5 40K scale, while the "rule" for AT models is 1/4 40K scale. I'll just have to hope one of the people who gets sent a demo copy takes some measurements.


FW models in epic were true 6mm. Any reason to think their planes weren't when pretty much everything else was.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 12:20:59


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Apologist wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


In case it's useful, the resin Marauder Forge World released for Epic/the old Aeronautica Imperialis measured 85mm from rear gun tip to front gun tip, and (despite the parallax error from my photo!) 85mm from wingtip to wingtip. From the previews, the bases – and thus 'planes – look identical in size.

Images spoilered, just to avoid anyone inadvertently jumping to conclusions – to be clear, this is the old resin version, not the upcoming (presumably) plastic version, posted only for reference. Apologies for the WIP paintjob, too!
Spoiler:






Well if they're remaining consistent, the new ones should be larger, since IIRC the "rule" for the FW Epic models was 1/5 40K scale, while the "rule" for AT models is 1/4 40K scale. I'll just have to hope one of the people who gets sent a demo copy takes some measurements.


From memory AI was either 1/300 or 1/285, can’t remember and don’t have my AI stuff in front of me to check. But they gave real world sizes of aircraft in the books and you could measure the models and they’d be that scale. Not sure why you think they “should” be larger? They were self consistent, ideally I’d want them to stay the same so then they’ll match the AI models I already have.

What’s AT’s scale? Like, as a real scale and not relative to 40k’s wonky scale?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 12:21:11


Post by: Yodhrin


tneva82 wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I can already tell this is going to frustrate me - I'll want to know the size of the models before I buy anything(and not "err, they're kinda sorta 20/100ths of the 40K model maybe?", actual measurements), and you just know they'll have radically under-produced everything so that by the time anyone actually posts that information it and any accessories will be sold out :/


Well knowing FW you can get that pretty much to spot on if you know what size they are in technical info in FW fluff books. From that what size they would be in 6mm scale gives you the answer.


It would indeed, if they were keeping to a consistent scale. Instead, they're taking whatever size the 40K version of the model is and quartering it. Since the 40K vehicles are all over the joint, so will the AT/AI/potential nuEpic models be.

I'm scaling everything based on the Titans at ~1:260, and I know what size the vehicles all *should* be in that scale, but whether the AI planes will match that I won't know until someone measures the models.


Doesn't look like quartering since that would result in 8mm being titan scale but it's 6mm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Well if they're remaining consistent, the new ones should be larger, since IIRC the "rule" for the FW Epic models was 1/5 40K scale, while the "rule" for AT models is 1/4 40K scale. I'll just have to hope one of the people who gets sent a demo copy takes some measurements.


FW models in epic were true 6mm. Any reason to think their planes weren't when pretty much everything else was.


I mean, I'm literally just quoting Will Hayes from a discussion had on FB a while ago(pic related). They made various sizes of Marine, they liked how the ~8mm one looked, they re-scaled the Titans accordingly, and they'll re-scale everything else by the same amount, ie about 1/4 40K size, just as their Epic models were 1/5 40K size. There won't be any attempt to rationalise the models into an absolute scale.

Which is why I want to know the exact size of these planes before buying, so as to know if 1/4 40K size is accurate for a 1:260 scale plane of those types.



AllSeeingSkink wrote:
-snip-

What’s AT’s scale? Like, as a real scale and not relative to 40k’s wonky scale?


See above, it doesn't have one officially.

The actual Titans are ~1:260 though, but if a 40K model is scaled wonkily, the AT/AI/nuEpic model will be wonky be exactly the same amount, just smaller.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 12:35:08


Post by: Sqorgar


I think I'm most interested in the campaign book. It probably won't be much more than a roster and a few small upgrades, but even that is enough to make me take a second look at the game. Did the original Aeronautica Imperialis have a campaign system? If so, what was it like?

It's interesting that it is getting a campaign book right out the gate. I think GW (and the industry as a whole) is definitely swinging more to narrative/campaign style gaming these days than competitive play. The pendulum of player interests has started to swing back...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 13:20:05


Post by: CragHack


70 EUROS for us.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 13:36:08


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good value at all, even compared with other GW stuff. Nightvault is $60. Warlord Games has a historical fighter combat game, and that starter set is $50 with 12 planes (though admittedly those are much less detailed miniatures). I'm not seeing a good value here, except maybe in comparison to Adeptus Titanicus.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 14:18:28


Post by: SamusDrake


£55 sounds about right and decent against X-Wing. Surprised it isn't £70, knowing GW...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 15:41:26


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good value at all, even compared with other GW stuff. Nightvault is $60. Warlord Games has a historical fighter combat game, and that starter set is $50 with 12 planes (though admittedly those are much less detailed miniatures). I'm not seeing a good value here, except maybe in comparison to Adeptus Titanicus.


Just looked in on that. It doesn’t come with a board or terrain. So you’d need to factor that in,


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 15:53:25


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 stonehorse wrote:
I reckon that the low buy in price is to directly compete with FFG's X-wing. How much is a starter X-wing set these days, £30-£40?


The RRP of the X-Wing starter is £36 for three models plus the accessories required to play. This is somewhat less than twice that, for three times as many models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good value at all, even compared with other GW stuff. Nightvault is $60. Warlord Games has a historical fighter combat game, and that starter set is $50 with 12 planes (though admittedly those are much less detailed miniatures). I'm not seeing a good value here, except maybe in comparison to Adeptus Titanicus.


Just looked in on that. It doesn’t come with a board or terrain. So you’d need to factor that in,


Amazon will do you a blue tablecloth for less than a tenner.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 16:03:26


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good value at all, even compared with other GW stuff. Nightvault is $60. Warlord Games has a historical fighter combat game, and that starter set is $50 with 12 planes (though admittedly those are much less detailed miniatures). I'm not seeing a good value here, except maybe in comparison to Adeptus Titanicus.


Just looked in on that. It doesn’t come with a board or terrain. So you’d need to factor that in,


Might come out even worse for GW if the starter only has a demo board and you're supposed to buy a bigger one as day 1 DLC.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 16:11:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


That seems unlikely, though.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 16:54:57


Post by: Sabotage!


I imagine the expansion board will probably just have some different hexes with alternate rules, or can be combined with the starter one for multiplayer games. I am much more concerned with a partial rulebook.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 18:46:51


Post by: MajorWesJanson


Partial rulebook? Could be anything like the old mini books that left out all the fluff sections to a book with the rules to play but not additional missions and campaign rules.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 19:03:36


Post by: Easy E


 Sqorgar wrote:
I think I'm most interested in the campaign book. It probably won't be much more than a roster and a few small upgrades, but even that is enough to make me take a second look at the game. Did the original Aeronautica Imperialis have a campaign system? If so, what was it like?

It's interesting that it is getting a campaign book right out the gate. I think GW (and the industry as a whole) is definitely swinging more to narrative/campaign style gaming these days than competitive play. The pendulum of player interests has started to swing back...


Yes, it actually had two systems, one was a linked game and the other was around controlling resources. They were pretty fun.

The ability for aircraft and pilots to level up was limited. In the old Airspace forum we expanded it to better pilot skills than just an improved dice roll for special pilot tests.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 20:52:41


Post by: SamusDrake


Just zipping back through the posts but can't find links to confirm the £55 price nor the contents of the game. Would it be alright to have them again?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 21:01:52


Post by: Racerguy180


lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good value at all, even compared with other GW stuff. Nightvault is $60. Warlord Games has a historical fighter combat game, and that starter set is $50 with 12 planes (though admittedly those are much less detailed miniatures). I'm not seeing a good value here, except maybe in comparison to Adeptus Titanicus.


Just looked in on that. It doesn’t come with a board or terrain. So you’d need to factor that in,


Might come out even worse for GW if the starter only has a demo board and you're supposed to buy a bigger one as day 1 DLC.


It'll be interesting to say the least.
We know AM & Orks are in the starter but I wonder what the first batch of aircraft will be? Eldar v Deldar maybe, or chaos stuff(I'm looking forward to hel-drake/talon)?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 21:03:41


Post by: lord_blackfang


SamusDrake wrote:
Just zipping back through the posts but can't find links to confirm the £55 price nor the contents of the game. Would it be alright to have them again?


 zedmeister wrote:
Spotted on B&C - note comment about being the same scale as AT - Epic, here we come!



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/23 21:08:43


Post by: SamusDrake


Cheers for that.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 02:03:04


Post by: CptJake


Folks upset at the pricing should look at GHQ aircraft:

http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/nato-aircraft-fixed-wing.html

About the same scale, metal, not plastic. Yes, you can get them at a discount sometimes. And yes, there are other companies with cheaper (but typically less detailed) versions.

All in all though, I think the price is decent if the game included in the box is fun. The planes included may not be dirt cheap, but compared to similar historical figures they are not over the top expensive either.

Now, how do I hide the fact I'm buying yet another game system from my wife...


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 08:11:21


Post by: Cronch


Folks upset at the pricing should look at GHQ aircraft

Someone was upset over it?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 10:23:53


Post by: SamusDrake


Cronch wrote:
Folks upset at the pricing should look at GHQ aircraft

Someone was upset over it?


Yes! Its £5 cheaper than I predicted it would be! How dare they!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 12:17:54


Post by: Yodhrin


If anyone's a member of the facebook group with the year in the name, someone there's local store apparently has their demo copy - can you ask for proper measurements of the length & wingspan of the various planes please?



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 12:40:31


Post by: reds8n


few odd pics :


[Thumb - aiinfo3.jpg]
[Thumb - aiinfo4.jpg]
[Thumb - aiinfo5.jpg]
[Thumb - aiinfo6.jpg]


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 12:49:00


Post by: CptJake


Man, I am pretty excited about this.

I may have to dig out my old Bommerz over da Sulphur River game to hold me over!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 12:51:55


Post by: BrookM


Ooh, they got a nice size to them, can't wait for next week now.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 12:52:57


Post by: Yodhrin


Oh well that's a shame, looks like they're too large to match the Titans properly - in 1:260 a Thunderbolt wingspan should be ~62mm, and that indicates it's about 70mm.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 13:11:56


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:
Oh well that's a shame, looks like they're too large to match the Titans properly - in 1:260 a Thunderbolt wingspan should be ~62mm, and that indicates it's about 70mm.

Are you sure about that? They said it is in the same scale than AT (whatever scale that is) so certainly they used the same ratio for 'downscaling' these planes from their 40K sizes than they did with the titans, thus an AI plane would be relatively the same size compared to an AT titan than their 40K counterparts are to each other.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 13:12:49


Post by: RiTides


Wow, I love the size of the ships!! Was coming to post the pics but Ninja'ed by red


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 13:57:02


Post by: Overread


Darn those are really a nice size! Also remember don't glue them to the flight sticks - you want them ready to jump onto rounds or whatever shape they end up having if Epic ever makes a return - or if GW just adds aircraft to AT


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 13:59:24


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Yodhrin wrote:
If anyone's a member of the facebook group with the year in the name, someone there's local store apparently has their demo copy - can you ask for proper measurements of the length & wingspan of the various planes please?



I've done so, and so has another group member. Let's see if that penetrates past the 6mm / 8mm waffling that's already clogging the thread.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:07:54


Post by: puzzledust


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
If anyone's a member of the facebook group with the year in the name, someone there's local store apparently has their demo copy - can you ask for proper measurements of the length & wingspan of the various planes please?



I've done so, and so has another group member. Let's see if that penetrates past the 6mm / 8mm waffling that's already clogging the thread.


Why does the difference of a few mm even matter?

Spoiler:
It doesn't.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:15:02


Post by: Yodhrin


 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Oh well that's a shame, looks like they're too large to match the Titans properly - in 1:260 a Thunderbolt wingspan should be ~62mm, and that indicates it's about 70mm.

Are you sure about that? They said it is in the same scale than AT (whatever scale that is) so certainly they used the same ratio for 'downscaling' these planes from their 40K sizes than they did with the titans, thus an AI plane would be relatively the same size compared to an AT titan than their 40K counterparts are to each other.


Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the "correct" size in absolute terms, because 40K's relative scaling is wonky. The AT Titans are about 1:260, and at 16.06m that puts the wingspan of a Thunderbolt at about 62mm, and as I say that image there appears to show the AI model with a wingspan of about 7cm or roughly 1:230. Plenty of people are happy with "close enough" and will find these adequate, I'm glad for them, but I prefer things to be more consistent especially at GW prices.

Ah well, more money in the Sisters kitty.

puzzledust wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
If anyone's a member of the facebook group with the year in the name, someone there's local store apparently has their demo copy - can you ask for proper measurements of the length & wingspan of the various planes please?



I've done so, and so has another group member. Let's see if that penetrates past the 6mm / 8mm waffling that's already clogging the thread.


Why does the difference of a few mm even matter?

It doesn't(to me).


FTFY.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:19:23


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I've already got four Thunderbolts, and I expect Yodhrin has some too. If it wasn't for that, minor size differences wouldn't matter at all, but I'd like to know what the differences are (if any). It doesn't necessarily mean I won't get this, but it does mean I'd consider selling on my old planes if they differ.

The 40k plane has a wingspan of 280mm. The resin model has a wingspan of 54mm (one fifth the size, as previously stated on FB by Will Hayes). If the plastic models are scaled like the titans at one quarter the 40k size, then the new Thunderbolts will be 70mm. Of course, that's assuming they use the same 40k-to-epic scaling that they've used for Adeptus Titanicus; that's likely, but perhaps not guaranteed.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:27:41


Post by: Yodhrin


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I've already got four Thunderbolts, and I expect Yodhrin has some too. If it wasn't for that, minor size differences wouldn't matter at all, but I'd like to know what the differences are (if any). It doesn't necessarily mean I won't get this, but it does mean I'd consider selling on my old planes if they differ.

The 40k plane has a wingspan of 280mm. The resin model has a wingspan of 54mm (one fifth the size, as previously stated on FB by Will Hayes). If the plastic models are scaled like the titans at one quarter the 40k size, then the new Thunderbolts will be 70mm. Of course, that's assuming they use the same 40k-to-epic scaling that they've used for Adeptus Titanicus; that's likely, but perhaps not guaranteed.


Hah.

I actually don't have any of the Epic ones either, but I didn't spend ages faffing about measuring up the Titans and harassing Will Hayes on FB to confirm the "8mm Marine" thing to settle for "close enough". I'd been planning to 3D print myself some planes in the "correct' scale to play with using the old rules prior to this new version being announced, so I'll just go back to that plan.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:32:49


Post by: RiTides


If you're looking to match the OOP titan stuff, this won't work for you at all, but it looks fine next to the new titan in the pic above, imo.

I'm personally really glad they're chunky - I had expected them to look a lot smaller so this is a pleasant surprise!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:37:06


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the "correct" size in absolute terms, because 40K's relative scaling is wonky.

Compared to what?

The AT Titans are about 1:260, and at 16.06m that puts the wingspan of a Thunderbolt at about 62mm, and as I say that image there appears to show the AI model with a wingspan of about 7cm or roughly 1:230. Plenty of people are happy with "close enough" and will find these adequate, I'm glad for them, but I prefer things to be more consistent especially at GW prices.

On what you're basing these calculations? If the relative sizes of AI/AT models is the same than 40K vehicles, then that is as 'correct' as we're going to get. There literally are pilot models in 40K versions of these models, and as those pilots are same scale with each other, so are the vehicles. If there is some fluff which states the sizes of these vehicles that does not correspond with the model sizes then it is that fluff that is wrong, not the models.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:40:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Yodhrin wrote:

I actually don't have any of the Epic ones either, but I didn't spend ages faffing about measuring up the Titans and harassing Will Hayes on FB to confirm the "8mm Marine" thing to settle for "close enough". I'd been planning to 3D print myself some planes in the "correct' scale to play with using the old rules prior to this new version being announced, so I'll just go back to that plan.


I'd say the 1/4 40k size is most likely to be correct for any new epic models going forward (after all, there's a couple of crashed Xiphons on the AT terrain boards and they'll be 1/4 sized; makes sense for them to stick to that in IA '19).

I'm not sure what choice came first - to scale to 1/4 of 40k size or to scale so a Marine is 8mm tall - but the two are equivalent after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Crimson wrote:
If there is some fluff which states the sizes of these vehicles that does not correspond with the model sizes then it is that fluff that is wrong, not the models.


No, it just means that Games Workshop doesn't make exact scale models - which we already know. The "real" sizes of 40k aeroplanes were printed in the Imperial Armour and Aeronautica Imperialis books, produced at the same time as the miniatures. I wouldn't place any bets over what came first.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 14:50:25


Post by: Yodhrin


 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the "correct" size in absolute terms, because 40K's relative scaling is wonky.

Compared to what?


Compared to basic maths?

The AT Titans are about 1:260, and at 16.06m that puts the wingspan of a Thunderbolt at about 62mm, and as I say that image there appears to show the AI model with a wingspan of about 7cm or roughly 1:230. Plenty of people are happy with "close enough" and will find these adequate, I'm glad for them, but I prefer things to be more consistent especially at GW prices.

On what you're basing these calculations? If the relative sizes of AI/AT models is the same than 40K vehicles, then that is as 'correct' as we're going to get. There literally are pilot models in 40K versions of these models, and as those pilots are same scale with each other, so are the vehicles. If there is some fluff which states the sizes of these vehicles that does not correspond with the model sizes then it is that fluff that is wrong, not the models.


I'm basing them on Forge World, so it would be odd if the fluff was wrong given it came at the same time as the model. Given how wonky scale in 40K is generally(Rhino, anybody?), I find it easier to believe the model was built larger for some reason than they just randomly decided to pull a number out of their backsides.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

I actually don't have any of the Epic ones either, but I didn't spend ages faffing about measuring up the Titans and harassing Will Hayes on FB to confirm the "8mm Marine" thing to settle for "close enough". I'd been planning to 3D print myself some planes in the "correct' scale to play with using the old rules prior to this new version being announced, so I'll just go back to that plan.


I'd say the 1/4 40k size is most likely to be correct for any new epic models going forward (after all, there's a couple of crashed Xiphons on the AT terrain boards and they'll be 1/4 sized; makes sense for them to stick to that in IA '19).

I'm not sure what choice came first - to scale to 1/4 of 40k size or to scale so a Marine is 8mm tall - but the two are equivalent after all.


Well they said the Marine came first in the pre-release teasing/event stuff, but as you say chicken or egg doesn't really matter, either way it means any scale discrepancies from the 40K models will be ported across 1:1. At least these days there's a way to fix it ourselves if one is so inclined.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:02:16


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the "correct" size in absolute terms, because 40K's relative scaling is wonky.

Compared to what?

Compared to basic maths?
The AT Titans are about 1:260, and at 16.06m that puts the wingspan of a Thunderbolt at about 62mm, and as I say that image there appears to show the AI model with a wingspan of about 7cm or roughly 1:230. Plenty of people are happy with "close enough" and will find these adequate, I'm glad for them, but I prefer things to be more consistent especially at GW prices.

On what you're basing these calculations? If the relative sizes of AI/AT models is the same than 40K vehicles, then that is as 'correct' as we're going to get. There literally are pilot models in 40K versions of these models, and as those pilots are same scale with each other, so are the vehicles. If there is some fluff which states the sizes of these vehicles that does not correspond with the model sizes then it is that fluff that is wrong, not the models.

I'm basing them on Forge World, so it would be odd if the fluff was wrong given it came at the same time as the model. Given how wonky scale in 40K is generally(Rhino, anybody?), I find it easier to believe the model was built larger for some reason than they just randomly decided to pull a number out of their backsides.

Sorry, this is just bonkers. The models are in correct scales, some obscure old background numbers are totally irrelevant. They're not gonna make the models in AI/AT relatively differently scaled that their 40K counterparts because some intern who was tasked with coming up some page filler for FW book failed at maths. It was even perfectly possible that at the moment of writing the writer didn't have a model at hand as they were just going into production, so they were just estimating. Oh, and according to similar FW numbers the Rhino model is correctly scaled.

Do you know that in BL books one exact same ship doubles in length between books? I'd love to see you do maths on how a BFG model for that ship should be scaled!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:05:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


This has definitely hit ‘auto buy’ for me.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:09:00


Post by: Yodhrin


 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're the "correct" size in absolute terms, because 40K's relative scaling is wonky.

Compared to what?

Compared to basic maths?
The AT Titans are about 1:260, and at 16.06m that puts the wingspan of a Thunderbolt at about 62mm, and as I say that image there appears to show the AI model with a wingspan of about 7cm or roughly 1:230. Plenty of people are happy with "close enough" and will find these adequate, I'm glad for them, but I prefer things to be more consistent especially at GW prices.

On what you're basing these calculations? If the relative sizes of AI/AT models is the same than 40K vehicles, then that is as 'correct' as we're going to get. There literally are pilot models in 40K versions of these models, and as those pilots are same scale with each other, so are the vehicles. If there is some fluff which states the sizes of these vehicles that does not correspond with the model sizes then it is that fluff that is wrong, not the models.

I'm basing them on Forge World, so it would be odd if the fluff was wrong given it came at the same time as the model. Given how wonky scale in 40K is generally(Rhino, anybody?), I find it easier to believe the model was built larger for some reason than they just randomly decided to pull a number out of their backsides.

Sorry, this is just bonkers. The models are in correct scales, some obscure old background numbers are totally irrelevant. They're not gonna make the models in AI/AT relatively differently scaled that their 40K counterparts because some intern who was tasked with coming up some page filler for FW book failed at maths. It was even perfectly possible that at the moment of writing the writer didn't have a model at hand as they were just going into production, so they were just estimating. Oh, and according to similar FW numbers the Rhino model is correctly scaled.

Do you know that in BL books one exact same ship doubles in length between books? I'd love to see you do maths on how a BFG model for that ship should be scaled!


So if they eventually do Epic and have 8mm Marines and scale the Rhino proportionately to the 40K one, you'll say that's correctly scaled as well?

Like I say, you can not care about the scale if you like, but some do and are using the best available info to try and fix it - to me that seems perfectly inoffensive, so what's your problem?



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:16:32


Post by: Oguhmek


Ooh, they are quite a lot bigger than I thought! I will definitely get this - perfect to paint and play with my son.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:20:58


Post by: Commander Cain


Looks like they are the perfect scale to blend in with Titanicus, better start working on my airfield terrain!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:27:20


Post by: AndrewGPaul


From FB:

Andrew Paul Wingspans Thunderbolts are 70mm, dakkajets are 55-57mm, fighta bommerz are 78-80mm.
Lengths Tbolts are 63mm, dakkajets are 58-60, fighta bommerz are 70mm.


For what it's worth, from the old IA rulebook, a Thunderbolt is 16060mm wingspan by 14200mm length (1.13:1 wingspan:length). The 40k model is 280mm x 250; a 1.12:1 ratio, and 1:57 scale*. The old Epic resin model is 53 x 50mm, a 1.06:1 ratio and either 1:284 or 1:303 depending on if the length or wingspan is correct. The new plastic model is 70 x 63mm, a 1.11:1 ratio and 1:225 scale*.

* scaled using the length, since the "correct" measurements, the 40k model and the new model all appear to have slightly different wingspan / length ratios. The old resin Epic model is the outlier, with its wings being 3mm too small.

The old resin model is about 1/5 the size of the 40k model, the new one almost exactly 1/4, as with the Titanicus models.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:27:26


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:

So if they eventually do Epic and have 8mm Marines and scale the Rhino proportionately to the 40K one, you'll say that's correctly scaled as well?

Yes. And so would you if you take those obscure FW numbers as gospel.

Like I say, you can not care about the scale if you like, but some do and are using the best available info to try and fix it - to me that seems perfectly inoffensive, so what's your problem?

I don't have a problem, but you do, because you're made up one in your head, by elevating some random background nugget from out of print book above what is right in front of our eyes. It is perfectly possible that if they reprint those numbers, and they notice this disparity and care about it (big ifs, I know) that they change those numbers to match the model sizes. FWs background numbers seem usually be based on calculations on the model size. Numbers given to 40K tanks seem to match she scale of the models. If it was not the case this time, it might indeed be the case of the calculations being made before the model was completed. What absolutely will not happen, like ever, is GW or FW change their model sizes based on some ancient page filler most people have forgotten a long time ago. So do yourself a favour, calculate the 'real world' sizes for these planes based on the model size, then put that in your head canon. Ta da, the models are correctly scaled now! Certainly much easier than building your own models in a different scale which might be made obsolete any moment FW prints a new book.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:30:30


Post by: Tastyfish


I do remember the old AI thunderbolts being pretty big in comparison to Tau Barracudas.

Are we thinking that these new models are the same size as the AI old ones (not the old epic ones)?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:33:10


Post by: AndrewGPaul


We might have been, but now we're not, because two posts above yours is my post with the sizes of the old resin Thunderbolts and the new plastic ones.

Somewhat annoying for those of us with the old models, but so be it. I didn't have as many IA planes as I did old titans, after all. Anyone want fifteen old beetleback Warlords?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:35:57


Post by: RiTides


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The old resin model is about 1/5 the size of the 40k model, the new one almost exactly 1/4, as with the Titanicus models.

Alright, thanks . Should be good news for anyone wanting a "new Epic" eventually that these match the new AT titans


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:45:34


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Also, from the same FB post,
You get all ordance options for every plane.
.

Whatever that means.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:49:41


Post by: puzzledust



FTFY.


No I meant what I said. It doesn't matter. If it matters that much to you then I would suggest prioritizing your life.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:56:48


Post by: Yodhrin


 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

So if they eventually do Epic and have 8mm Marines and scale the Rhino proportionately to the 40K one, you'll say that's correctly scaled as well?

Yes. And so would you if you take those obscure FW numbers as gospel.


I don't treat them as gospel. For this particular model, I treat them as the best available info, because it is - as AndrewG has demonstrated, none of the actual Thunderbolt models produced, in any scale, have been consistent, either with the given numbers or with each other, so if anything is "bonkers" it's taking that as gospel. For Rhinos, I scale them exactly the same way I scale the 40K version - based on the Marines.

Like I say, you can not care about the scale if you like, but some do and are using the best available info to try and fix it - to me that seems perfectly inoffensive, so what's your problem?

I don't have a problem,


You really really do man, because only someone with an actual problem could take the idea of trying to rationalise 40K's wonko vehicle scaling as some kind of personal affront as you seem to be.

but you do, because you're made up one in your head, by elevating some random background nugget from out of print book above what is right in front of our eyes. It is perfectly possible that if they reprint those numbers, and they notice this disparity and care about it (big ifs, I know) that they change those numbers to match the model sizes. FWs background numbers seem usually be based on calculations on the model size. Numbers given to 40K tanks seem to match she scale of the models. If it was not the case this time, it might indeed be the case of the calculations being made before the model was completed. What absolutely will not happen, like ever, is GW or FW change their model sizes based on some ancient page filler most people have forgotten a long time ago. So do yourself a favour, calculate the 'real world' sizes for these planes based on the model size, then put that in your head canon. Ta da, the models are correctly scaled now! Certainly much easier than building your own models in a different scale which might be made obsolete any moment FW prints a new book.


Actually outside of the Rhino many of FW's vehicle numbers don't match the models. They do mostly appear to be consistent with each other though, which is why I often use them when no better source is available.

And since it's my headcanon, you know, I think I'll do exactly what I said I will. Maybe one day you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for that

puzzledust wrote:

FTFY.


No I meant what I said. It doesn't matter. If it matters that much to you then I would suggest prioritizing your life.


You're on a forum for wee toy models chief, glass houses eh.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 15:57:34


Post by: BrookM


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Also, from the same FB post,
You get all ordance options for every plane.
.

Whatever that means.
Missiles, bombs, extra guns!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 16:08:21


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:
And since it's my headcanon, you know, I think I'll do exactly what I said I will. Maybe one day you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for that

So numbers which FW gives for Rhinos (which matches the model scale) is wrong, but the numbers they give for these planes (which do not) are correct... OK, buddy, you do you and good luck.

I for one am pleased that these planes are correctly scaled in relation to their 40K counterparts, just like the AT titans are.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 16:11:40


Post by: puzzledust


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

So if they eventually do Epic and have 8mm Marines and scale the Rhino proportionately to the 40K one, you'll say that's correctly scaled as well?

Yes. And so would you if you take those obscure FW numbers as gospel.


I don't treat them as gospel. For this particular model, I treat them as the best available info, because it is - as AndrewG has demonstrated, none of the actual Thunderbolt models produced, in any scale, have been consistent, either with the given numbers or with each other, so if anything is "bonkers" it's taking that as gospel. For Rhinos, I scale them exactly the same way I scale the 40K version - based on the Marines.

Like I say, you can not care about the scale if you like, but some do and are using the best available info to try and fix it - to me that seems perfectly inoffensive, so what's your problem?

I don't have a problem,


You really really do man, because only someone with an actual problem could take the idea of trying to rationalise 40K's wonko vehicle scaling as some kind of personal affront as you seem to be.

but you do, because you're made up one in your head, by elevating some random background nugget from out of print book above what is right in front of our eyes. It is perfectly possible that if they reprint those numbers, and they notice this disparity and care about it (big ifs, I know) that they change those numbers to match the model sizes. FWs background numbers seem usually be based on calculations on the model size. Numbers given to 40K tanks seem to match she scale of the models. If it was not the case this time, it might indeed be the case of the calculations being made before the model was completed. What absolutely will not happen, like ever, is GW or FW change their model sizes based on some ancient page filler most people have forgotten a long time ago. So do yourself a favour, calculate the 'real world' sizes for these planes based on the model size, then put that in your head canon. Ta da, the models are correctly scaled now! Certainly much easier than building your own models in a different scale which might be made obsolete any moment FW prints a new book.


Actually outside of the Rhino many of FW's vehicle numbers don't match the models. They do mostly appear to be consistent with each other though, which is why I often use them when no better source is available.

And since it's my headcanon, you know, I think I'll do exactly what I said I will. Maybe one day you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for that

puzzledust wrote:

FTFY.


No I meant what I said. It doesn't matter. If it matters that much to you then I would suggest prioritizing your life.


You're on a forum for wee toy models chief, glass houses eh.


Exactly! Now you're getting it partner.
I'm not complaigning or arguing about the difference in a few mm because I understand I am on a forum for "wee toy models".
Now apply that same logic to yourself and "tada!" problem solved. You can do it!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 16:30:14


Post by: BrookM


Getting flashbacks to X-Wing's A-Wing size and scale debates here!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 16:57:57


Post by: Yodhrin


 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
And since it's my headcanon, you know, I think I'll do exactly what I said I will. Maybe one day you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for that

So numbers which FW gives for Rhinos (which matches the model scale) is wrong,


No, they're wrong because they match the model's size, which is incorrect based on literally every piece of background material that describes the Rhino and its capacity when compared to the miniatures of the things that are meant to go inside it.

but the numbers they give for these planes (which do not) are correct... OK, buddy, you do you and good luck.


They're better than going by the completely inconsistent models anyway. And I will thanks.

I for one am pleased that these planes are correctly scaled in relation to their 40K counterparts, just like the AT titans are.


OK, based on this and the Rhino remark, I'm beginning to think this whole stream of nonsense has just been because you don't understand what I mean when I say "scale"?

puzzledust wrote:

Exactly! Now you're getting it partner.
I'm not complaigning or arguing about the difference in a few mm because I understand I am on a forum for "wee toy models".
Now apply that same logic to yourself and "tada!" problem solved. You can do it!


I've always been getting it "partner", the only difference between us is I'm not wonky enough in the noggin to believe that the particular bits of the hobby that I care about are somehow not nerdy nonsense - I hate to break it to you, but if you're here, then telling anyone else to "examine their priorities" is just lul-worthy.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 17:08:39


Post by: Sarouan


Yodhrin, just admit you already made your mind and never intended to buy the GW starter box anyway, so that you can justify using 3D printing for "not lightning" miniatures. It will be more honest.

Since the real calculations were showed on this thread already, the new AI models are actually in scale with the new Titanicus models. You don't like them and want to find something more suitable to your personal tastes, that's fine. But it's not for "being closer to official scale" reasons, here.

Fun fact : I always thought the Lightning was smaller than that in comparison to the other planes. Don't know why. They look fine so far, but I wonder if the connection to the flying base will be strong enough for game handling.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 17:09:29


Post by: Crimson


Yodhrin, I do understand what scale is, and I indeed do care about it quite a bit. However I am not sure you understand that the things these models depict are not real. Thus there really cannot be 'correct' scale, merely consistency.

Even if one would accept that there might be some scaling issues with the Rhino* such issues do not exist with the models of these planes or the titans. 40K versions of both show normal 40K scaled pilot models in them. So the scale of the models is perfectly fine.


* (I loved when they used to make models of marines hanging on and riding on top of the Rhino. That way it could carry ten)


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 17:53:59


Post by: Chopstick


Seeing those pic just make me afraid we had to buy resin upgrade for Marauder destroyer.

Worst case it happen, i might have to use the autocannon from the thunderbolt to make one.

Also I hope Lightning and voss lightning have new loadout/variant. Maybe we'll see a fighters full of autocannon or lascannon, the ultimate dakka fighter!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 18:16:18


Post by: Yodhrin


You guys are laughable, for real - more rabid than the anti-truescale Marine fanatics.


 Crimson wrote:
Yodhrin, I do understand what scale is, and I indeed do care about it quite a bit. However I am not sure you understand that the things these models depict are not real. Thus there really cannot be 'correct' scale, merely consistency.

Even if one would accept that there might be some scaling issues with the Rhino* such issues do not exist with the models of these planes or the titans. 40K versions of both show normal 40K scaled pilot models in them. So the scale of the models is perfectly fine.


* (I loved when they used to make models of marines hanging on and riding on top of the Rhino. That way it could carry ten)


If you're having to resort to "hurr it's all just toys and not real durr"...yeah.

Consistency is indeed exactly the issue - you're happy with consistency in the same sense GW are, ie everything is made smaller than the 40K models by the same amount. Great. Wonderful. Enjoy. Have at it. Unlike yourself, I don't begrudge other people their preferred standard. I prefer consistency in the sense of everything being scaled "correctly" relative to the "actual" scale of the Titans, based on the numbers when given, or by a best estimate when there are no numbers or the numbers are inconsistent with other more fundamental background material.

 Sarouan wrote:
Yodhrin, just admit you already made your mind and never intended to buy the GW starter box anyway, so that you can justify using 3D printing for "not lightning" miniatures. It will be more honest.


I don't need to "justify" anything. I had intended to 3D print the aircraft, as I said before. Had the new AI models matched the size I intended to print them in, I'd have bought the plastics instead because they look to be a bit more detailed than the STL files I have. They're not, so I will be 3D printing them, and have zero qualms about that, just like I have zero qualms about 3D printing a lot of other stuff - whole Epic armies in fact, and BFG ships, and SM vehicles for 40K so they fit with my "truescale" Marines. You're evidently labouring under the misapprehension that I subscribe to the idea that printing stuff is something shameful that needs to be excused - it isn't, and it doesn't.

Since the real calculations were showed on this thread already, the new AI models are actually in scale with the new Titanicus models. You don't like them and want to find something more suitable to your personal tastes, that's fine. But it's not for "being closer to official scale" reasons, here.


OK, I'm confused here. If my whole argument is that AT *has* no "official scale" because it's just a 1/4 reduction of the 40K model sizes and the 40K models don't have a consistent scale, how can I be also be arguing that my method of making things consistent with each other is closer to the official scale? What I stated - and this is simply factually true - is that the sizes of the models don't match up with the numbers given for the "real" size of these vehicles in the background books. And I never claimed that adhering to that standard was anything other than personal preference, it's Crimson et al that are seemingly taking personal offense that others might view things differently.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 18:24:41


Post by: Peregrine


You're getting criticism because you're willing to sacrifice model quality over a slight scale "error" based on zero-effort source material that is full of nonsense numbers. Sure, you have the right to elevate that one particular source over all others and let it dictate your purchasing choices, but don't expect anyone to think you're making a reasonable choice.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 18:32:36


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:


If you're having to resort to "hurr it's all just toys and not real durr"...yeah.

This not what I mean. I take my toy soldier very seriously too. But it is still all made up, and there is no reason to think that one made up number is more correct than another. Nothing in the titan or plane models indicate that there would be anything wrong with their scaling in relation to the human miniatures, thus one might as well accept those sizes.

Consistency is indeed exactly the issue - you're happy with consistency in the same sense GW are, ie everything is made smaller than the 40K models by the same amount. Great. Wonderful. Enjoy. Have at it. Unlike yourself, I don't begrudge other people their preferred standard. I prefer consistency in the sense of everything being scaled "correctly" relative to the "actual" scale of the Titans, based on the numbers when given, or by a best estimate when there are no numbers or the numbers are inconsistent with other more fundamental background material.

But there isn't 'actual scale' of titans. Their states vary wildly in the fiction. We can literally see what size the princeps is compared to their titan. That is closest to the 'real size' as we're going to get. You have made up a standard in your head and do not even apply it consistenly. Sometimes the problem is that the model and stated numbers for it's size in FW publications are too small for what it 'sensibly' should be (Rhino,) sometimes there seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with the scaling of the models when comparing them to the infantry models (titans, aeroplanes) yet now them not matching the stated FW numbers that were quickly abandoned in the previous case is a problem. And of course expecting GW to conform to some arbitrary and bizarre standards that you have concocted is absurd.

Crimson et al that are seemingly taking personal offense that others might view things differently.
I am not offended, merely confused.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 18:50:20


Post by: Sabotage!


Looking forward to this one, I like that the fighters are a bit bigger than expected. Should make painting them more fun.

I've never played AI, so if the "How to play videos" from around the internet look fun I'm definitely picking this up.

Also can we take the scale discussion to the SG forum please? I know it's not off topic, but a page and a half of arguing over the scale does make it a bit hard to find other information about that game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 19:20:43


Post by: xttz


Are there any more details on how the game plays? Getting bored seeing posts of Yodhrin embarrassing himself now


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 19:37:55


Post by: zedmeister


 reds8n wrote:
few odd pics :



Look at that! Wonderous! Now, time to pressure specialist games to include aircraft rules in Titanicus


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 19:41:03


Post by: Crimson


And rules for knight-sized Stormcasts!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 19:47:23


Post by: BrookM


Official announcement will pop up tomorrow at the usual time and if we're lucky, a how to play video or at the very least two to three articles on the game and the models throughout the week.

I'm hoping that the €200,- I've set aside is enough to get everything in one go.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 20:08:31


Post by: Tastyfish


I think half that will, assuming you just wanted the core set and the two sets of ace cards.

I think we'll see other factions come out as model sets and card decks. Not in the main rulebook - given there's no models yet.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 20:22:32


Post by: BrookM


News of the campaign book, extra map and dice make me worry though that it may not be enough..!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 21:22:21


Post by: MajorWesJanson


Assuming it all comes out in one week and isn't just the box at first, then the other stuff a week or two later. SM are still waiting for 2/3 of their kits in addition to the supplements.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/24 23:30:21


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


So they’re bigger than the old AI models?

Bastards, my interest level just dropped a whole heap if I can’t use these models to complete my old squadrons.

They really didn’t need to grow, bombers in the old scale were pretty big, now they’re going to be huge.

I don’t think it really would have mattered if they were technically smaller scale than AT, it’s pretty common to use smaller scale aircraft than ground troops in war games, given aircraft generally just represent tokens when playing ground based games (due to speed and altitude being very different), it’s not really necessary from a game perspective to have them in scale. Even a relatively slow moving fighter plane is probably going to cover most the gaming table in the time it takes a titan to make 1 step, so having a matching scale is mostly pedantry.

For example 15mm games often use 1/144 aircraft, even though 15mm is closer to 1/100.

Ah well, sad face, this has gone from instant buy to “maybe I’ll see if the rules don’t suck first”, of which I don’t have much hope given the game board is so small.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 00:43:15


Post by: Racerguy180


This kinda follows the shorter game format GW has been taking with ala AT, Necro, killteam, etc.

The board being small may factor into this, but I guess nothing is stopping you from using 2 game boards or something.

I really want this but if it isnt around by the time I have $ for it (after sisters it may be a while). I might just pick the models up for creating a cool dog fighting diorama.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 00:52:30


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


Racerguy180 wrote:
This kinda follows the shorter game format GW has been taking with ala AT, Necro, killteam, etc.

The board being small may factor into this, but I guess nothing is stopping you from using 2 game boards or something.

I really want this but if it isnt around by the time I have $ for it (after sisters it may be a while). I might just pick the models up for creating a cool dog fighting diorama.


My concern about the board size comes down to how the rules are going to work. Old AI was about manoeuvring your planes in to position, it’s not really a game that can be scaled down to such a tiny hex board like this. How is manoeuvring for position going to work when the board is only about 15 hexes long? We’ll see though, obviously just speculation at this point.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 01:52:25


Post by: Alpharius


Today I learned that “anti-truescale Marine fanatics” are a thing!

Anyway, we’re one step closer to the return of Epic...

Roll on whatever comes next too!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 05:48:36


Post by: Yodhrin


 Peregrine wrote:
You're getting criticism because you're willing to sacrifice model quality over a slight scale "error" based on zero-effort source material that is full of nonsense numbers. Sure, you have the right to elevate that one particular source over all others and let it dictate your purchasing choices, but don't expect anyone to think you're making a reasonable choice.


I don't require your permission or endorsement for my choices. I do wonder why it so vexes people that they feel the need to actively gak on it though, as explained below I'm thoroughly convinced just taking GW's wonko-scale as gospel isn't a reasonable choice but I always take great pains to ensure people know that's a personal opinion when the subject comes up, here or with other IPs. I consider consistent scaling to be part of model quality.

 Crimson wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:


If you're having to resort to "hurr it's all just toys and not real durr"...yeah.

This not what I mean. I take my toy soldier very seriously too. But it is still all made up, and there is no reason to think that one made up number is more correct than another. Nothing in the titan or plane models indicate that there would be anything wrong with their scaling in relation to the human miniatures, thus one might as well accept those sizes.


But we've established already that GW do not make scale models, that their models are not consistent with each other even when discussing a single fictional item like the Thunderbolt, where every representation of it has had different proportions and a different size relative to its ostensible scale. We've also established that GW aren't interested in keeping models consistent between each other in the context of a single scale, given the plethora of transports that can't transport what they claim to, or vehicles with doors that can't fit things through it's supposed to carry, or the complete mess of scaling that has been the Space Marine model line pretty much since its inception. Thus, to my mind, just accepting whatever size the GW model is what seems bizarre, and as to the validity of the numbers, I dug out that convo I had with Will Hayes on FB, this came in response to me asking if the numbers in the books were simply ass-pulls;



I'm comfortable using the numbers as a solid basis for scaling, once you establish a baseline to work from. For 40K, I work from the modern human miniatures - 32mm = scale human male, which puts the system at ~1:56. Everything else flows from that, and apart from a handful of models like the Rhino and the really huge stuff like the Titans, it works remarkably well when you take the numbers FW give in the IA books in terms of things being scaled well relative to each other. For AT we know the size of the Titans and the fictional "real" height of the Titans, on which basis they're ~1:260, which fits with the "8mm Marine" thing, so that's what I use as the baseline. From there on, I begin with the "real" numbers, and if they are consistent with the descriptions of what the "real" thing can do and hold - which the Thunderbolt would be in this case - I go with that, if there's a discrepancy I make adjustments based on the baseline and a point of reference, such as with Rhinos and Marines.

It's not perfect, but it's better in my opinion than other methods.

Consistency is indeed exactly the issue - you're happy with consistency in the same sense GW are, ie everything is made smaller than the 40K models by the same amount. Great. Wonderful. Enjoy. Have at it. Unlike yourself, I don't begrudge other people their preferred standard. I prefer consistency in the sense of everything being scaled "correctly" relative to the "actual" scale of the Titans, based on the numbers when given, or by a best estimate when there are no numbers or the numbers are inconsistent with other more fundamental background material.

But there isn't 'actual scale' of titans. Their states vary wildly in the fiction. We can literally see what size the princeps is compared to their titan. That is closest to the 'real size' as we're going to get. You have made up a standard in your head and do not even apply it consistenly. Sometimes the problem is that the model and stated numbers for it's size in FW publications are too small for what it 'sensibly' should be (Rhino,) sometimes there seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with the scaling of the models when comparing them to the infantry models (titans, aeroplanes) yet now them not matching the stated FW numbers that were quickly abandoned in the previous case is a problem. And of course expecting GW to conform to some arbitrary and bizarre standards that you have concocted is absurd.


See above. It's impossible to argue that my standards are arbitrary without also admitting that GW's standards are arbitrary, in which case which someone chooses to follow is up to them. My standards are *consistent*, and that's what I like. And where is this idea that I "expect GW to conform" to my standards coming from? I don't expect GW to do anything, I don't demand they do anything. I simply base my purchasing decisions on my own standards, which is no more "expecting" or "demanding" than when I decide not to buy GW 40K Rhinos because, by my thinking, they're too small, or FFG's TIE Fighters and X-34 speeders because they're too big.

Crimson et al that are seemingly taking personal offense that others might view things differently.
I am not offended, merely confused.


Then I hope I've cleared things up for you.


 Alpharius wrote:
Today I learned that “anti-truescale Marine fanatics” are a thing!


They were kind of hard to miss. For a goodly while pretty much every time the topic came up for discussion, you'd get a procession of sneering "nyeeeh, that's dumb, the models are right 'cos GW made them and what GW do is what's official and so correct!" and "nyeeeeh, you're dumb, it's not Space Marines that are too small, it's literally everything else that's too big! Stop being dumb and wrong and bad and just buy all the nonexistent actually-28mm-tall models for the other factions!" and "OMG it's just toys and games and stuff NEEEEERRRRRRD who cares lul" posts.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 09:10:41


Post by: Crimson


Sorry, you're indeed being arbitrary. You pick and choose whichever background numbers you happen to like. You just have made up some nonsense in your head and it is confusing to people for you coming here talking about 'the models being scaled wrong' when you actually mean they do not conform to Yodhrin head scale. And if if 40K is 1:56 then AT/AI certainly isn't 1:260, it is 1:224!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 09:32:50


Post by: BrookM


Okay people, enough of that already. If you must discuss it, do so elsewhere.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 10:06:41


Post by: Sabotage!


Thank you Brook.

So in a few hours we will see what all is going up for preorder next weekend. Are we going to see an article about the game too tomorrow? It seems strange to only get info about the game the two weeks leading up until the release, especially as a "new" GW game. Also it will be sharing community article space with the poster boys releases for 40k, so I'm not sure how much we will get.

I wonder if they sent review copies to GMG, MWG, and the other various online reviewers. If so we might see some review videos tomorrow or Monday.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 10:22:32


Post by: BrookM


GW only tends to release preview articles early when there's been a massive leak, see Kill Team - Rogue Trader as an example, or when they need to hype up something Space Marine related.

So far on AI, no big leak has happened as of yet, so they've been patiently biding their time and we'll have several articles throughout the week for sure. Expect at least one looking at the models and another at the rules.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 10:26:20


Post by: Darnok


As awesome as the return of AI is in my opinion, the different scale is kind of a down for me.

It works just fine for Orks and maybe even Eldar, but the Imperium and Chaos models are so iconic and now not really playable next to each other. I mean: a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt, and the already small FW Hellblades will look laughably tiny now.

The "board" is also... meh. Would it make the box that much more expensive to have it on cardboard rather than on a poster?

Still, I am happy for the games return. The scale thing and the "board" take it from "awesome, this is perfect" down to "eh, I'll get it anyway" though.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 10:26:43


Post by: SamusDrake


Noticed our local gaming store is interested in stocking the game...

https://www.facebook.com/alphagamesuk/photos/pb.355435498163702.-2207520000.1566727358./899354097105170/?type=3&theater

...is this the case for others here? And more importantly, will they be hosting game sessions for Aeronautica?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Darnok wrote:
As awesome as the return of AI is in my opinion, the different scale is kind of a down for me.

It works just fine for Orks and maybe even Eldar, but the Imperium and Chaos models are so iconic and now not really playable next to each other. I mean: a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt, and the already small FW Hellblades will look laughably tiny now.

The "board" is also... meh. Would it make the box that much more expensive to have it on cardboard rather than on a poster?

Still, I am happy for the games return. The scale thing and the "board" take it from "awesome, this is perfect" down to "eh, I'll get it anyway" though.


The board is a poster? Didn't realise that...

The value still holds up but like yourself I had the starter set in higher regard. I take it it's a double-sided poster?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 11:07:09


Post by: Mothman


On the board and it being hex based, thats likely just for launch id imagine, Necromunda box set had more limited movement options (tiles and no verticality) with more normal movement options later

its likely alot of scales will be slightly different should this expand into epic, for example do rhinos scale with the 40k model (which is hilariously out of scale with new chaos marines being taller than the hull section, those with horns cant even walk into it) or more true scale rhinos.

I would actually love a "bombing run" mission on a titan formation, strip shields with the fighters and guide the bomber into the target. I also hope we see other factions soon after release, getting chaos-necron-eldar-tau quickly would be nice


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 13:02:14


Post by: reds8n






this is not an excuse to rethrash the scale argument again.





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 13:20:26


Post by: CptJake


Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 13:23:38


Post by: Sarouan


 CptJake wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?


It looks like it. Imperial planes on a grey plastic sprue, as the former pictures seem to show.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 13:32:33


Post by: Chopstick


 reds8n wrote:




this is not an excuse to rethrash the scale argument again.





Oops from that video showing the aircraft catalog I can be certain that there wont be Marauder destroyer optional build , remember back then the Imperium had to change to Destroyer to fight against Ork.

Also look like only missile and bomb can actually run out of ammo this time.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 14:28:53


Post by: reds8n


 CptJake wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?


I don't believe so.

The red ones in the pics/video I've posted are "Red is Mephiston Primer, agrax to panel line, drybrush mephiston, drybrush evil sunz."

. so think it's the usual plastic.



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 16:57:06


Post by: MajorWesJanson


I'm hoping that we may see 28mm versions of some of these models.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:04:16


Post by: BrookM


Preview of the pre-orders is up!

Article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/25/coming-soon-a-new-age-of-aerial-combat/

In the 41st Millennium, there is only war. In space? War. On the land? WAR. Underground? SO MUCH WAR. The skies? You better believe there is a heck of a lot of war going on up there. Now, we’re giving you the chance to experience aerial warfare in the far future with Aeronautica Imperialis – a totally new game system designed to bring the thrills of combat in the sky to your tabletop.

A better way indeed! You’ll be able to pre-order Aeronautica Imperialis next weekend, with loads of kits, accessories and books to launch into. Neat, eh?



In the set, you’ll find:

2x Thunderbolt Fighters (these can also be built as Thunderbolt Furies)
2x Marauder Bomber
3x Dakkajets
2x Fighter Bommers
1x Rulebook
1x Double-sided Area of Engagement battlemat
Lots of handy gubbins like dice, transfer sheets, tokens, quick reference guides and more.
We’ll be delving further into the Wings of Vengeance set with an unboxing tomorrow, so stay tuned.

Aeronautica Imperialis is more than a (very, very good) boxed game, it’s a fully-fledged new system with its own range of models. In addition to Wings of Vengeance, you’ll also be able to pick up all the kits in their own separate boxes. Let’s take a closer look at those…

Aircraft
Our miniatures team have worked tirelessly to transform some of the 41st Millennium’s most famous aircraft into all-new plastic models made especially for the game. Take the new Thunderbolt Fighter kit…



This multipart plastic kit allows you to build four Thunderbolt Fighters packed with incredible detail and options to customise your aircraft with all manner of weapons. This includes a variant of the Thunderbolt never-before-seen on the tabletop – the avenger bolt cannon-armed Thunderbolt Fury. Looking for something heavier? You’ll be able to reinforce your air wing with a box of two Marauder Destroyers (nigh-indomitable flying fortresses) and another box of Marauder Bombers (for when you need to turn your chosen ground target into a smoking crater).





Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:05:42


Post by: Overread


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hoping that we may see 28mm versions of some of these models.


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=913715131+4053564632&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AGB_fw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_fw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+<%3D+1566756180000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1566756180000]&view=all

They are already out!
FW has most of the Imperial ones, whilst at least the ork fighters and some bombers are on sale from GW directly as a plastic kit.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:08:13


Post by: BrookM


It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:08:32


Post by: Chopstick


So marauder destroyer is a separate kit? That's great news but seem...redundant? Should've been 2-in 1 kit.


Now the price......


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:13:30


Post by: Sqorgar


Does the word "gubbins" have any use outside of wargaming tokens? Because I see it all the time in miniature games (Wild West Exodus even has a "rules & gubbins" set), but I've never seen the word used anywhere else, ever.

If I walked up to some random person and said, "grognards loves their gubbins", I'm pretty sure they'd consider it sexual harassment.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:24:11


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


It's not uncommon in the UK, it tends to be used to refer to a collection of (small) bits and pieces

(often stuff that the speaker doesn't really understand, such as 'when I took the back off the TV there was a bunch of electical gubbins in there')


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:27:45


Post by: CorwinB


 BrookM wrote:
It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!


Yes, sounds like a pretty heavy first release weekend for this new game. Even a single copy of everything is going to end up quite expensive.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:46:15


Post by: BrookM


CorwinB wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!


Yes, sounds like a pretty heavy first release weekend for this new game. Even a single copy of everything is going to end up quite expensive.
Not getting everything!

Though a quick check shows just about everything but the three bomber kits..

Rynn's World is a nice kick-off for the campaign, not to mention a nice nod to the old material. Probably will have to do a red Thunderbolt and black Dakkajet then to represent the two top aces.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:50:15


Post by: AndrewGPaul


With it being on Rynn’s World, I suspect the next things to come are Marines. I wonder if they’ll stick to Xiphons Storm Eagles and Thunderhawks or if we’ll see the plastic planes too?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 17:55:51


Post by: BrookM


Who knows? So far I am seeing a lot of FW's original art being re-used, with some of the newer stuff thrown in. I'm quietly hoping that Astartes are left out for the time being and it can focus on other factions first.

Where's my Lightning though?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:18:47


Post by: TwilightSparkles


Probably just me but the starter seems weak value game given the abridged rules, paper mat etc I'll be giving this one a pass unless those single items are way cheaper than I'm guessing.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:34:32


Post by: Oguhmek


Whoo, this turns up to be a much bigger release than I expected! Everything looks quite glorious - I need me a couple (or four) of those nice Ork dice sets!

Sounds almost like the Wings of Vengeance set is a bit like Necromunda: Underhive though, with the smaller board and all. Let's hope it at least contains the full rules.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:34:40


Post by: Crimson


So it is not a complete rulebook and on needs to buy full rules separately? That makes it a lot worse deal.

BTW, it this again one of those situations the starter will be gone in a week, and cannot be bought later?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:39:51


Post by: Daston


I hope the card packs stick around, can't quite stretch to it this month but will be going in deep the next payday.

Space Marine stuff will be great, not sure I fancy Howling Griffon colours at that scale mind


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:42:09


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


If Astartes turn up, I expect properly sick turns from their aircraft, given their genhanced nature and Gs and that,


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 18:56:14


Post by: Sqorgar


 Crimson wrote:
So it is not a complete rulebook and on needs to buy full rules separately? That makes it a lot worse deal.

It explicitly says that the full rules are available in the starter AND Rynn's World.:
Warhammer Community wrote:This starter set makes getting stuck in with Aeronautica Imperialis super easy, containing the full rules, an Area of Engagement battlemat, two squadrons of aircraft to game with, and more!
Warhammer Community wrote:What’s more, the Rynn’s World book contains the full rules for Aeronautica Imperialis, so you’ll be able to play the game, even if you’re not getting the Wings of Vengeance set!


BTW, it this again one of those situations the starter will be gone in a week, and cannot be bought later?
With GW, who knows? But it probably won't be Kill Team levels of popular, and Kill Team is the only starter set that sold out. You can still get Necromunda: Underhive, Warcry, Blood Bowl, Soul Wars, Dark Imperium, and they even brought back Adeptus Titanicus Grandmaster's Edition after it sold out.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:16:52


Post by: Da Butcha


The target markers (in the Warhammer Community article) are labelled 1,2,3,4,5,4,7,8,9,10,11,12 in Roman numerals.

That's probably just an error, but why in the world would you Photoshop in a second number IV when you bothered painting up numbers 1-12 otherwise? Did the office cat bat the #6 one under the fridge?


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:19:40


Post by: Thargrim


I'm impressed with what i'm seeing but I bet most of these things like the dice/cards/board won't be back once they sell out.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:27:54


Post by: Sabotage!


If the "How to play videos" this week look fun I'll definitely pick up the starter and the card packs, and will snag the campaign book (nice that it includes the full rules) larger board (Really pretty bummed the starter one is a poster), and some additional planes next paycheck. Hopefully the board/cards/dice stick around for a while.

Also it seems the starter gives you a full marauder kit, half a thunderbolt kit, half a dakkajet kit, and half a fighta-bomba kit. Nice to see GW breaking up kits to put in a starter to get you some variety, I imagine this has to do with the way the sprues are structured, but I still enjoy it.

Also Rynn's World is an excellent choice for a campaign. That's such an iconic piece of fluff.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:36:14


Post by: Either/Or


Unless the starter is a really good deal this seems like one to get separately vs the starter set.

Curious on how much more map you get with the add on version.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:49:14


Post by: GoatboyBeta


I get why a grid would be a good thing for a game of this type. But being limited to the size of the available hex map is definitely a (minor)downside.


Might actually pass on the starter box after seeing what else is out at the same time. With the full rules in the Rynns world book, a bigger(and sturdier) board, separate tokens and more models in most of the kits. Its looking less like a starter and more like a taster box.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 19:49:37


Post by: SamusDrake


Compared to last year's Titanicus, this is an excellent launch line up that cannot be faulted.

Personally I won't be going the starter set route, because I'm already eyeing up the Rynn's World book and individual aircraft packs - not to mention everything else! For now, probably just the Rynn-rule book or a squadron for HW.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 21:34:48


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


Does the Rynn's World box come with the planes? I definitely want the campaign book and box, but I might also get the starter box if that's the way to get the models at a discount. Having a spare rulebook wouldn't be the worst thing since there's a good chance I'll be providing both sides when I play this game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 22:42:10


Post by: ImAGeek


 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Does the Rynn's World box come with the planes? I definitely want the campaign book and box, but I might also get the starter box if that's the way to get the models at a discount. Having a spare rulebook wouldn't be the worst thing since there's a good chance I'll be providing both sides when I play this game.


Rynn’s world campaign is just a book, not another box.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 22:50:59


Post by: SamusDrake


A video on the contents of the starter box...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_AIN_yvXU


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 23:32:49


Post by: lord_blackfang


SamusDrake wrote:
A video on the contents of the starter box...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_AIN_yvXU


So the mat is paper and about 17x17 by the looks of it, and, as I speculated, the larger, cardboard mat is day 1 DLC.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/25 23:38:52


Post by: Sabotage!


 lord_blackfang wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
A video on the contents of the starter box...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_AIN_yvXU


Not showing the game board, which interests me the most


I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but he does mention a few minutes in when flipping through the rules the game board is 2.5' by 2.5' (75 x 75 cm) and the rules state a small dog fight is generally played on a 3'x3'. Not sure if that helps at all. He also mentioned different time frames for different numbers of ships, so I reckon all different levels of game play (from 2 planes a side to 12) are supported in the book.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 00:54:07


Post by: Chopstick


Given that each set of aircraft is probably 35USD each, you get 4 of them, the price isn't that bad for 2019 GW.

Paper board and booklet rulebook is kinda wonky, could've been cardboard board.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 01:06:12


Post by: MajorWesJanson


Chopstick wrote:
Given that each set of aircraft is probably 35USD each, you get 4 of them, the price isn't that bad for 2019 GW.

Paper board and booklet rulebook is kinda wonky, could've been cardboard board.


Paper board may be to cut back time for reprints if needed.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 01:19:06


Post by: Sabotage!


Paper board could also be because it fits in the box size.

One major downside of the starter is it only had a single scenario in the rulebook, where the Rynn's World book has 6.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 01:38:23


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


 ImAGeek wrote:
 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Does the Rynn's World box come with the planes? I definitely want the campaign book and box, but I might also get the starter box if that's the way to get the models at a discount. Having a spare rulebook wouldn't be the worst thing since there's a good chance I'll be providing both sides when I play this game.


Rynn’s world campaign is just a book, not another box.

There's also a box, but looking closer at the smaller print on front I guess it's just be a cardboard game mat/board.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 02:33:29


Post by: Voss


SamusDrake wrote:
Compared to last year's Titanicus, this is an excellent launch line up that cannot be faulted.


What do you mean? The only fault I can recall with Titanicus was how quickly it sold out. I doubt this will be any different in that regard, since GW loves the illusion that 'selling out' brings.

This is two factions, a handful of planes and a bunch of bobbins and tchotchkes.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 02:53:15


Post by: Sabotage!


Voss wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Compared to last year's Titanicus, this is an excellent launch line up that cannot be faulted.


What do you mean? The only fault I can recall with Titanicus was how quickly it sold out. I doubt this will be any different in that regard, since GW loves the illusion that 'selling out' brings.

This is two factions, a handful of planes and a bunch of bobbins and tchotchkes.


I can't speak for the game of Titanicus, as I never have played nor do I know anyone that has played it. I think what Samus is alluding to is that if you want to try the game you can get everything you need to be introduced to the game for roughly 85 USD. There are a lot of people who are willing to try a new minis game for 85 bucks. Locally Titanicus was dead on the vine in my metro. No one was willing to drop 300 bucks to try an unknown game. My lGS got three copies, one sold to a guy who just wanted to paint the models. The other two sat on the shelves for months until they sold at a 40% off sale. Of the 3 local LGS I go to (Including one very big one) I have never seen a single person playing Titanicus, buying Titanicus products, or an event on a calendar. The big LGS had quite a few copies of the 300 boxed set months after it sold out online.

Now this is antidotal, because clearly Titanicus sold well online (and probably in some areas), but most people I have talked to in the States don't have anyone that plays it in their metros (and some don't even have stores that sell it). I think this is largely because of the cost of entry, because from all I have read online the game is rather fun. With a reasonably priced starter set, I think a lot more people will give IA a go.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 03:07:36


Post by: Chopstick


Voss wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Compared to last year's Titanicus, this is an excellent launch line up that cannot be faulted.


What do you mean? The only fault I can recall with Titanicus was how quickly it sold out. I doubt this will be any different in that regard, since GW loves the illusion that 'selling out' brings.

This is two factions, a handful of planes and a bunch of bobbins and tchotchkes.


This box give you a squadron of 80-100 pts for each side, with different aircraft and some loadout choice.

AT "Starter" give you one-third of a Titan maniple for each side, no option at all. It's a value bundle, not a "starter set". Well you can play straight from the box if you really want to, play one-third of a titan maniple of course. AT at launch also didn't have any other titan choice, so even if you buy the extra, you only get 3 Warlord sitting at a corner taking potshot at each other until the knight banner can get into melee range.

Oh yeah since all the basic Titans had rule so you can say "why not using proxy?" In that case I might as well say skip the GM box and just buy the ruleset and play with all proxy titans instead. Instant value.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 04:11:22


Post by: CragHack


Holy gak, those Navy dice! Why can’t main GW studio make such lovely dice? Why??


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 06:08:38


Post by: tneva82


Chopstick wrote:
AT "Starter" give you one-third of a Titan maniple for each side, no option at all. It's a value bundle, not a "starter set". Well you can play straight from the box if you really want to, play one-third of a titan maniple of course. AT at launch also didn't have any other titan choice, so even if you buy the extra, you only get 3 Warlord sitting at a corner taking potshot at each other until the knight banner can get into melee range.

Oh yeah since all the basic Titans had rule so you can say "why not using proxy?" In that case I might as well say skip the GM box and just buy the ruleset and play with all proxy titans instead. Instant value.


And how much points we expect AI to play? AT one gave you like 2/3 of standardish point size of army in one go so for AI to match point sizes need to be around 150 pts then for standard game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 06:18:06


Post by: Chopstick


tneva82 wrote:

And how much points we expect AI to play? AT one gave you like 2/3 of standardish point size of army in one go so for AI to match point sizes need to be around 150 pts then for standard game.


Yes if you also take the titan from the other side to use, and you still can't fill a maniple to play a proper game, and now you play with 2 third of a maniple the other guy had to play with imaginary titans.

Okay.



In the AI rulebook "dogfight" scenario it say a force can range from 25 to 250 points. So 100 pts seem good enough.Different scenario had different points for force, like the old one. Which usually range from 50-300+ pts.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 06:28:34


Post by: Sabotage!


tneva82 wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
AT "Starter" give you one-third of a Titan maniple for each side, no option at all. It's a value bundle, not a "starter set". Well you can play straight from the box if you really want to, play one-third of a titan maniple of course. AT at launch also didn't have any other titan choice, so even if you buy the extra, you only get 3 Warlord sitting at a corner taking potshot at each other until the knight banner can get into melee range.

Oh yeah since all the basic Titans had rule so you can say "why not using proxy?" In that case I might as well say skip the GM box and just buy the ruleset and play with all proxy titans instead. Instant value.


And how much points we expect AI to play? AT one gave you like 2/3 of standardish point size of army in one go so for AI to match point sizes need to be around 150 pts then for standard game.


I'm not sure what or if there is a Standard for AI. The unboxing video posted earlier in this third has the presenter going over the rules and he mentions that the rules stats games that last 20-30 minutes for a a couple planes a side, and up to 2 to 3 hours for 12 planes a side. He also mentioned different table sizes for different game sizes. I image something around 4-8 planes (depending on faction) per side will be the average game.


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 06:38:59


Post by: ingtaer


Looking good, really hope they can keep this in stock for a while as it will be ages before I can get a copy. Really happy to see the ground installations are coming so soon so the game will have some variety in play and not just be an endless dogfight.
Also agree with CragHack those are some really sweet dice!


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 06:58:44


Post by: meade2763


Could anyone familar with the original please tell me if there is rules for damage in the game ( crippled planes ), or are planes just fully functional or destroyed?. Which doesnt seem very thematic to me.

Thanks


Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 07:06:01


Post by: Chopstick


meade2763 wrote:
Could anyone familar with the original please tell me if there is rules for damage in the game ( crippled planes ), or are planes just fully functional or destroyed?. Which doesnt seem very thematic to me.

Thanks


Nope. No system damage or X-wing damage deck



Aeronautica Imperialis News - Ork Eavy Bommer model revealed, pg 21/22 @ 2019/08/26 07:52:39


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Thargrim wrote:
I'm impressed with what i'm seeing but I bet most of these things like the dice/cards/board won't be back once they sell out.


It’s hard to say.

Whilst the recent Necromunda cards were disappointingly short lived, with seemingly no plan to reprint? The stuff we’re seeing here seems more integral to the game, akin to the Titan Terminals. Those sold out because GW underestimates demand, and couldn’t simply reprint at the drop of a hat.

Here? Well, I’m hoping they’ve learned a lesson.