Kogwar wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

Bigcheese76 wrote:Medusa with Batison Breacher Shells- 140

Priest with Eviscerator. - 65

This is a nonsense reply. The medusa can move 12" to always stay away from the priest, and all it takes is one failed 4+ save for the priest to die.

But if the Medusa moves 12" it can't fire it's gun, so it's just a game of keep away with nobody dying.

attack bike of the same amount of points with mms

(NECRO'D)

Obliterator

Khan with a Command Squad on bikes. Fun and you get bike squads as scoring units!

MC

Guardsmen!!!!!!
Hordes upon hordes of Guardsmen!!!!!!!!!

Mwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

10 Jetlocks. Farseer. Many destructors.
Around 700 points

yani wrote:10 Jetlocks. Farseer. Many destructors.
Around 700 points

Guardsmen!
Hordes and Hordes of Guardsmen!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!
(again)

gahhhh Deathstrike missile launcher from almost a mile away

Nah, if anything's going to win, it'll be Sternguard with Pedro Kantor. They have the best bolters in the galaxy, and they count as a scoring unit. Apoc wins here I come!!

MC

10 striking scorpions with exarch equipped with a biting blade with infiltrate

I still think Grey Knight Terminators or Sternguard with Pedro Kantor win any day.

MC

Ok Leman Russ Exterminator (the plasma one) with dual plasma sponsons. Stick that up your pipe and smoke it MC

CREEEEEEEEEEEED!!!

(and 50 conscripts with 5 melta guns )

10 Scorpions with an exarch with chainsabres (awesome against conscripts) and infiltrate

Land Raider Crusader with 12 Terminators tooled up for CC (TH/SS and LC)

MC

Hey guys thanks for posting but could you please ready the rules for the thread.

Nightbringer.

Scythes away your silly little minis.

OR a water gun, lighter fluid, a candle, and a hanger.
Let's see your massed guardsmen when they're a mound of overpriced plastic! Mwahaha.

Rico.

The nightbringers vs 12 (how do you pull that off) asault termis i question that i take nightbringers down that way.

Guys, guys, come on, stick with the thread rules, they have to be similar prices.

Starting this off again:
Vs Nightbringer
36 Fire Warriors.

kharn the betrayer in a bare bones land raider aprox 400 give or take (sry for being 40 over)

IG Platoon
PCS
2 Blobbed up squads with a Lascannon in each.

2 Heavy Weapons Teams with Lascannons.

380 IIRC

Ghazghkull Thraka on the Waaugh charging into your dudes. 225 points.

2+ Invulnerable save, 7 power klaw attacks on the charge.

5+ armor save, 31 regular attacks getting charged.

With GODLY rolling it will take you 5 turns to kill all those guys.

Edit: Actually, 6 turns.

Dashofpepper wrote:Ghazghkull Thraka on the Waaugh charging into your dudes. 225 points.

2+ Invulnerable save, 7 power klaw attacks on the charge.

225 Points worth of Pariahs.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Guardsmen!
Hordes and Hordes of Guardsmen!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!
(again)

How many times do I have to say this?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Guardsmen!
Hordes and Hordes of Guardsmen!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!
(again)

How many times do I have to say this?

Well, considering it's not actually a unit, does not have a points cost available to it, you don't have any weapons attached... you can say it plenty of times and be wrong every time So: 3 wraithlords, with 2 flamers, EML, scatter laser.

Dammit!

How many squads does a single platoon count as?

Here we go:

For 50 pts a Necron Destroyer. Times this up to 15 times over, up to 750 pts for a unit (or three) that will be too fast to touch in close combat and put out a world of hurt with three str 6 gauss shots. For the purpose of (trying to) think of counters assume I have taken three for 150 pts
Pew Pew Pew

Foldalot wrote:Here we go:

For 50 pts a Necron Destroyer. Times this up to 15 times over, up to 750 pts for a unit (or three) that will be too fast to touch in close combat and put out a world of hurt with three str 6 gauss shots. For the purpose of (trying to) think of counters assume I have taken three for 150 pts
Pew Pew Pew

Not anywhere near in points value to 3 wraithlords.

That would be 8 destroyers... and they don't out-range the wraithlords. 24 shots per turn is 16 hits, is 2.67 wounds, is roughly one wound per turn against the wraithlords. The wraithlords fire back, 2 EML hits, 8 scatter laser hits, or roughly 3 dead destroyers. The destoyers aren't winning that match when you follow the rules of the thread.

RustyKnight wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Ghazghkull Thraka on the Waaugh charging into your dudes. 225 points.

2+ Invulnerable save, 7 power klaw attacks on the charge.

225 Points worth of Pariahs.

Leman Russ withtheveryhardtotypename with side sponsor plasma cannon. 230 pts
Deployed as far away as possible from Pariahs within the range of its weapons.

EDIT: Oh now I get the name of it. It was Excutioner.

willydstyle wrote:

Foldalot wrote:Here we go:

For 50 pts a Necron Destroyer. Times this up to 15 times over, up to 750 pts for a unit (or three) that will be too fast to touch in close combat and put out a world of hurt with three str 6 gauss shots. For the purpose of (trying to) think of counters assume I have taken three for 150 pts
Pew Pew Pew

Not anywhere near in points value to 3 wraithlords.

That would be 8 destroyers... and they don't out-range the wraithlords. 24 shots per turn is 16 hits, is 2.67 wounds, is roughly one wound per turn against the wraithlords. The wraithlords fire back, 2 EML hits, 8 scatter laser hits, or roughly 3 dead destroyers. The destoyers aren't winning that match when you follow the rules of the thread.

I didn't specifically state the destroyers in response to the Wraithlords, I should have being more clear, sorry; it was more of a general challenge to Dakka (as I still feel destroyers are a great unit ) . In response to those nasty Wraithlords I would offer:
1 CSM Land Raider, combi Melta
1 CSM Predator with TW Las, Las Sponsons, Combi Melta

I also receive 10% bonus points for matching your points exactly.

Melta is a bit risky to take in a vehichle against that many wraithlords. Still a 50-50 chance of failing to wound and they have 3 wounds each.

Also, monstrous creatures generally pawn against vehichles.

Predator (with lascannons) is a good choice as you only need 3s to wound it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brightlance would decrease your armour to 12 anyway so lose the raiders and get more predators.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Melta is a bit risky to take in a vehichle against that many wraithlords. Still a 50-50 chance of failing to wound and they have 3 wounds each.

Also, monstrous creatures generally pawn against vehichles.

Predator (with lascannons) is a good choice as you only need 3s to wound it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brightlance would decrease your armour to 12 anyway so lose the raiders and get more predators.

Except the wraithlords that I set up had EML and scatterlasers.

Oh, well in that case you fail unless you get into close combat. Machine Spirit may make it dificult, as they can move full speed and shoot at BS2.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Melta is a bit risky to take in a vehichle against that many wraithlords. Still a 50-50 chance of failing to wound and they have 3 wounds each.

Also, monstrous creatures generally pawn against vehichles.

Predator (with lascannons) is a good choice as you only need 3s to wound it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brightlance would decrease your armour to 12 anyway so lose the raiders and get more predators.

I didn't take the LR for the combi melta, I took it because EML's need 6's to glance it, and there is the small matter that it has 2 TL lascannons. The melta is just the sugar on top. If he took BL's too then of course I wouldn't spam vehicles but that would be another matter entirely.
*As Willydstyle already pointed out*

Foldalot wrote:In response to those nasty Wraithlords I would offer:
1 CSM Land Raider, combi Melta
1 CSM Predator with TW Las, Las Sponsons, Combi Melta

I also receive 10% bonus points for matching your points exactly.

Two units of 5 fire dragons in wave serpents w/ EML, spirit stones.

willydstyle wrote:
Two units of 5 fire dragons in wave serpents w/ EML, spirit stones.

3 Units of 2 Warwalkers, all with two EML's

That one's iffy, as it causes on average one pen against wave serpents per turn, but I'll give it to you 3 units rather than two was the smart move.

So: two units of two obliterators. I even dropped the points by 100

willydstyle wrote:That one's iffy, as it causes on average one pen against wave serpents per turn, but I'll give it to you 3 units rather than two was the smart move.

So: two units of two obliterators. I even dropped the points by 100

Haha, yea was a bit too close for my liking but theres something about 12 EML's.....

hmmmm I suppose

2 veteran squads in chimeras each with 2 plasma guns.

I assume the Oblits deepstrike and then destroy both chimeras, the vets will then bail out and hopefully knock down two oblits in one turn.

Foldalot wrote:

willydstyle wrote:That one's iffy, as it causes on average one pen against wave serpents per turn, but I'll give it to you 3 units rather than two was the smart move.

So: two units of two obliterators. I even dropped the points by 100

Haha, yea was a bit too close for my liking but theres something about 12 EML's.....

hmmmm I suppose

2 veteran squads in chimeras each with 2 plasma guns.

I assume the Oblits deepstrike and then destroy both chimeras, the vets will then bail out and hopefully knock down two oblits in one turn.

Haha, against chimera spam I never deep strike my oblits: lascannons are pretty solid against AV 12... also the plasma guns don't cause instant death. If I did deepstrike, I'd try to hit between 20-24" on the side armor, and just do str 8+d6 against side armor 10 on the chimeras.

willydstyle wrote:
Haha, against chimera spam I never deep strike my oblits: lascannons are pretty solid against AV 12... also the plasma guns don't cause instant death. If I did deepstrike, I'd try to hit between 20-24" on the side armor, and just do str 8+d6 against side armor 10 on the chimeras.

I remembered the lascannons about 10 seconds after I posted my little assumption, look what 5th ed logic made me do: tank=> melta hur hur.
You win this time

Calgar in sundays best with assault marines telis next to olbits and guns them with his suped up ap2 storm bolters and the pistols from the squad 3 of which are plasma, then they weather the fire next turn he charges and beats the living crud out of them.

Yes, because that's worth around 300 pts...

Kogwar wrote:Calgar in sundays best with assault marines telis next to olbits and guns them with his suped up ap2 storm bolters and the pistols from the squad 3 of which are plasma, then they weather the fire next turn he charges and beats the living crud out of them.

Mekboy wrote:Yes, because that's worth around 300 pts...

Doesn't even work that well either. It kills maybe one obliterator, then they get hit with 3 plasma cannons, as the oblits walk backwards, possibly delaying assaults for a turn. After massive amounts of plasma fire, Marneus is likely the only survivor, and he stands a good chance of dying to powerfists.

willydstyle wrote:

Kogwar wrote:Calgar in sundays best with assault marines telis next to olbits and guns them with his suped up ap2 storm bolters and the pistols from the squad 3 of which are plasma, then they weather the fire next turn he charges and beats the living crud out of them.

Mekboy wrote:Yes, because that's worth around 300 pts...

Doesn't even work that well either. It kills maybe one obliterator, then they get hit with 3 plasma cannons, as the oblits walk backwards, possibly delaying assaults for a turn. After massive amounts of plasma fire, Marneus is likely the only survivor, and he stands a good chance of dying to powerfists.

Not to mention there's about a 50% chance of him scattering into something (like your oblits) and then a 1/3 chance to lose the entire squad.

My counter to the Oblits:
3 units of 2 Broadside Battlesuits with Multi-trackers.
6 TL railguns shots, and, IIRC, 30 SMS shots.

Compared to... 6 lascannon shots, or 12 TL plasma shots if you're super-close?

Battlesuits win due to superior range, and better weaponry (though they lack enough versatility that the next person to post is gunna beat them with something half the points)

10 Bloodletters.

Deep Strike 11" away, watch 4 of your guys get plinked, WTFPWN with the remaining 6.

Like 1/3 the points of the Oblits.

Guard infantry platoon. 2 squads of dudes w/14 lasguns, 2 auto cannons and 2 plasma guns. Platoon command w/ 2 plasma guns. FRFSRF. 42 s3 bs3 shots, 12 str7 shots. These might be a daemon left to retaliate. Nice 5+ saves you have there! Wait, we have 5+ saves? uh oh!

A single LR Eradicator.

If you are far enough away that will work. In that case, Snikrot & Co.

Kungfuhustler wrote:If you are far enough away that will work. In that case, Snikrot & Co.

I disagree. LR moves straight towards the middle of the table until snikrot shows up, the it kills all the orks before they can do anything to it.

Killakan with grotzooka

45 points

Spellbound wrote:Killakan with grotzooka

45 points

Multimelta attack bike.

Guard infantry platoon.

Nobody_Holme wrote:Guard infantry platoon.

Minimum 130 pts >> 50 points.

I'm still going to say that a unit of Sternguard with Pedro Kantor in a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer is the best unit that can be played. Admittedly, it will be expensive, but then again, what else can capture points and easily kill CSMs?

MC

Chaplain and 5 a termis 3 with thammers 3 with lcs in a landraider padro dies.

extermikator wrote:I'm still going to say that a unit of Sternguard with Pedro Kantor in a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer is the best unit that can be played. Admittedly, it will be expensive, but then again, what else can capture points and easily kill CSMs?

MC

Kogwar wrote:Chaplain and 5 a termis 3 with thammers 3 with lcs in a landraider padro dies.

10 Destroyers (the first one is so points-crazy that you could get 14 destroyers...) will take on either of these. Glance the Landraiders till they die, then play keep-away from the contents.

Land Raider would still win, as it would only take two turns to get close. Meanwhile, there'd be so muc firepower coming from the back you wouldn't know what came from where!

MC

extermikator wrote:Land Raider would still win, as it would only take two turns to get close. Meanwhile, there'd be so muc firepower coming from the back you wouldn't know what came from where!

MC

Destoyers can move 12 and shoot 36"... a landraider can only move 12" per turn. You can do the math.

destroyers... sooo overpriced! 90 pt lascannons... Brain hurts now.

Kungfuhustler wrote:destroyers... sooo overpriced! 90 pt lascannons... Brain hurts now.

You're thinking heavy destroyers. Destroyers are 50 points, heavy destroyers are 65.

willydstyle wrote:

extermikator wrote:Land Raider would still win, as it would only take two turns to get close. Meanwhile, there'd be so muc firepower coming from the back you wouldn't know what came from where!

MC

Destoyers can move 12 and shoot 36"... a landraider can only move 12" per turn. You can do the math.

Land Raider can move 12" and shoot 48"
You do the math.

Attack bike with multimelta is 50 points, try again.

45 point Killakan with grotzooka

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Canonness Rory wrote:
Land Raider can move 12" and shoot 48"
You do the math.

Destroyers>>>>Math
Move 12" and shoot 48", thats one twinlinked BS 2 Shot? Against 42 shots that can all hurt you. On average 4.67 glancing shots a turn compared to about 1 kill per five turns (after WBB). Yea, nice.

Alright, we have 45 point kan.

Just for fun, how about 1 tyranid warrior with +1S, scything talons, flesh hooks & rending claws and wings to boot.

43 points
18" assault
4 attacks on the charge
Rending
Immune to instant death

your math has a very big % error, I mean for starters how are you ever going to be in range? He moves 12 you move 6. Also no WBB from double toughness, and its BS 4 now in the new codex. Just saying.

Who are you referring to? The land raider vs. destroyer?

yermom wrote:your math has a very big % error, I mean for starters how are you ever going to be in range? He moves 12 you move 6. Also no WBB from double toughness, and its BS 4 now in the new codex. Just saying.

Ok, I have probably screwed up my maths some where, I was in a hurry when I did it this morning. Now lets get a few things sorted. Destroyers move 12" and can shoot after doing so. Destroyers have Range 36" guns (also they would be in 3 different squads all capable of turbo boosting so good luck trying to stay out of range) . Destroyers are toughness five, nine is not double five. Also I don't have the most recent space marine codex so I don't normally question what others say but you haven't being accurate yet so I want to clear it up. If a vehicle moves 12" it cannot normally fire any weapons but I believe that the Machine spirit can fire one weapon at BS 2 even after moving. That is what I based my calculation on as I assumed the Raider would be driving at the Destroyers to drop off its cargo. If it just sits back and shoots it doesn't out damage the destroyers either, 4 glancings (on average) a turn will turn that tank into swiss cheese just through weight of fire.

*If some one would clarify the way to calculate the chance to hit with a twin linked weapon for me that would be great. *
In this case BS 2 and twin linked I think produces hits 55% of the time wounds 5/6 and WBB negates it 1/2 of the time
=> 0.23 chance of a Destroyer death each turn if Land raider moves more than 6".

The power of the machine spirit lets it fire at BS4.
I have the codex right in front of me.

Yeah, only the old Codex had BS2 PotMS.

You can't shoot if you've turbo-boosted, so unless the game's CaC, there's no point in turbo-boosting

MC

Canonness Rory wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

extermikator wrote:Land Raider would still win, as it would only take two turns to get close. Meanwhile, there'd be so muc firepower coming from the back you wouldn't know what came from where!

MC

Destoyers can move 12 and shoot 36"... a landraider can only move 12" per turn. You can do the math.

Land Raider can move 12" and shoot 48"
You do the math.

Most people don't take regular ol' land raiders, and two lascannon shots per turn, which MIGHT kill 2 destroyers, who stand a good chance of getting back up, it's not going to kill all the destroyers before it is immobilzed with all its weapons blown off.

No, it's not a normal LR, sorry if I confused anyone. It'd be a LR Redeemer, with EA and HK missile on the side.

MC

extermikator wrote:No, it's not a normal LR, sorry if I confused anyone. It'd be a LR Redeemer, with EA and HK missile on the side.

MC

If it's a redeemer the destroyers take it down for sure.

But can't you corner them but getting the guys INSIDE to run around? force them to a table edge or something?

willydstyle wrote:
If it's a redeemer the destroyers take it down for sure.

QFT
I think this match up has being done to death anyway now so.....
I offer this new setup:
2X 10 Dire avengers with Exarch (2* Catapults) and Bladestorm in 2 waveserpents with Twin linked Brightlances. Move 12" back, shoot BL's, destroy tank, swoop in, unload dual bladestorms.
Beats the old setup for a fraction of the cost (550) and also offers a new challange to pick at. GO!

Wave serpents are tough because they're not easily exploitable by special rules (read: melta)...

3 exorcists.

3 outflanking scout squads with melta bombs and a pfist.

Kogwar wrote:3 outflanking scout squads with melta bombs and a pfist.

This is auto-lose.

Exorcist player starts in the middle of the table.

You come on and run.

You get shot, exorcists move away 6".

You run.

You get shot exorcists move away 6"

You Run. So far you've made it almost 24". The exorcists are currently about 48" from the board edge you started on. You've sucked up on average 21 Str 8 AP1 shots... I think your scouts are beginning to look a bit ragged, and you catch up to the exorcists with about 5 more turns of running (on average). Good luck with that.

Since the previous poster didn't post a unit to beat and only whined about the poster before him, he auto-fails, and I beat him.

For the next poster....

A broadside team (2+ armor saves) with 2 shield drones (4+ invulnerable saves) taking STR10 AP1 twin-linked shots at you. A bit less than 200 points.

willydstyle wrote:

Kogwar wrote:3 outflanking scout squads with melta bombs and a pfist.

This is auto-lose.

Exorcist player starts in the middle of the table.

You come on and run.

You get shot, exorcists move away 6".

You run.

You get shot exorcists move away 6"

You Run. So far you've made it almost 24". The exorcists are currently about 48" from the board edge you started on. You've sucked up on average 21 Str 8 AP1 shots... I think your scouts are beginning to look a bit ragged, and you catch up to the exorcists with about 5 more turns of running (on average). Good luck with that.

Well if we get to choose deployment then I'll deep strike 6 raveners w/2 sets scything & rending and deathspitters for 330 points. I won't kill the redeemer but I'll kill scouts and exorcists, especially against their rear armour, whether shooting or with my 18" assault move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:Since the previous poster didn't post a unit to beat and only whined about the poster before him, he auto-fails, and I beat him.

For the next poster....

A broadside team (2+ armor saves) with 2 shield drones (4+ invulnerable saves) taking STR10 AP1 twin-linked shots at you. A bit less than 200 points.

Here's one just for fun... Assuming a normal board with normal terrain, 12 ripper bases with strength upgrade and leaping. +1 to their cover saves, hit & wound on 4's, 3 wounds per base and even if I lose 3 or 4 I'll still have plenty of wounds to spare.

Against Grunt's Raveners...

12x Firewarriors - (120)
Devilfish - Smart Missile System, Flechette Dischargers, Disruption Pod, Target Array (125)

Against Grunt's Ripper Swarms...

1x Hellhound (not a guard player so don't know how points look)

Against either, outflanking or scouting genestealers (depending on deployment):

Extra carapace & feeder tendrils x16 of them @ ld 10.

And against your genestealers, a single crisis suit with an airbursting fragmentation launcher; large blast template, ignores cover. Jump shoot jump.

I see, but I have a question before we move on... I couldn't find it in the big rulebook so here goes: What's the AP of frag launcher? If it's 5 my stealers are still coming at you because I gave them extra armour and I'm moving an average of 9" per turn, have enough guys spread out in a line, which will eventually trap you somewhere.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:I see, but I have a question before we move on... I couldn't find it in the big rulebook so here goes: What's the AP of frag launcher? If it's 5 my stealers are still coming at you because I gave them extra armour and I'm moving an average of 9" per turn, have enough guys spread out in a line, which will eventually trap you somewhere.

That's pretty much how it will play out. AFP is str 4 AP5, large blast, 18" range (it's a barrage weapon as well).

So basically he'd get within 18", shoot at one stealer, since they're all in a line you hit no more than 3, possibly scatter terribly, maybe wound 2 or 3 and kill 1 per turn. After 3 turns he's backed up to the board edge and by about turn 5 in CC and probably dying.

Do I have that somewhat right?

If I'm right should we move on to what'll destroy a giant unit of genestealers?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:So basically he'd get within 18", shoot at one stealer, since they're all in a line you hit no more than 3, possibly scatter terribly, maybe wound 2 or 3 and kill 1 per turn. After 3 turns he's backed up to the board edge and by about turn 5 in CC and probably dying.

Do I have that somewhat right?

If I'm right should we move on to what'll destroy a giant unit of genestealers?

Land Raider Redeemer.

Also, I think Destroyers would make pretty quick work of them...

Lets go ahead and say Destroyers

Well I've already mentioned the redeemer, but the destroyers are an excellent choice!

Hmmm, so we have 300 some points of destroyers. I would go and say ripper swarms again but that's already been done. 3 wounds, mounds of cover saves, etc. So with that being out due to repetition, how about a unit of infiltrating striking scopions with an exarch that's toting a powerfist for only 200 points!

willydstyle wrote:

Kogwar wrote:3 outflanking scout squads with melta bombs and a pfist.

This is auto-lose.

Exorcist player starts in the middle of the table.

You come on and run.

You get shot, exorcists move away 6".

You run.

You get shot exorcists move away 6"

You Run. So far you've made it almost 24". The exorcists are currently about 48" from the board edge you started on. You've sucked up on average 21 Str 8 AP1 shots... I think your scouts are beginning to look a bit ragged, and you catch up to the exorcists with about 5 more turns of running (on average). Good luck with that.

Not with shrike in the army and if i force you to the middle of the table, it just puts you closer to my main force and the fire you spend on my 85 point group of scouts ( who i forgot to mention have camo cloaks) that stick to cover ( HA HA 3+ COVER BABY) buys my other units ( such as a landraider with atermis moving torwards you with there fun hammers) some time to get to you. GO FUNEL EFFECT!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Well I've already mentioned the redeemer, but the destroyers are an excellent choice!

Hmmm, so we have 300 some points of destroyers. I would go and say ripper swarms again but that's already been done. 3 wounds, mounds of cover saves, etc. So with that being out due to repetition, how about a unit of infiltrating striking scopions with an exarch that's toting a powerfist for only 200 points!

Oh sry someone already used that, and amarines with Khan in a free rhino with pfist sarge and 3 plasma.

Modquisition edit to remove derailing of thread

Modquisition edit to remove derailing of thread

Modquisition edit to remove derailing of thread

Modquisition edit to remove derailing of thread

Irrespective of what you think about religion, the best unit is Kantor with Sternguard in LR Redeemer

MC

Modquisition edit to remove derailing of thread

Yet another good thread ruined.

Yep. Lets keep religion out of this please.

Posts removed to purge the weak and get the thread back on track-sort of

extermikator wrote:Irrespective of what you think about religion, the best unit is Kantor with Sternguard in LR Redeemer

MC

3 squads of 2 obliterators.

2 squads of 5 vanguard with power weapons out flanking

Kogwar wrote:2 squads of 5 vanguard with power weapons out flanking

Can vanguard outflank?

Even so, then I'd sit 36" away from both board edges. Plasma cannon based death will probably kill 1 squad and severly damage the other before they get into melee with one squad of oblits. After killing that obliterator squad, they take 8 TL plasma gun shots to the face.

Not if i stick to cover.

Lets see. We'll say each template covers 2 models. 8 shots, 1 overheats so doesn't fire. 4 templates scatter. About 2 go away from the squad, 1 far enough not to hit any. We'll say the other one only hits 1.

9 hits.

Rounded down to 7 wounds.

Rounded down to 4 saved. Sarge survives.

Other squad gets same treatment next turn.

Both sarges charge one oblit squad.

8 attacks, 4 hits, 2 wounds, rounded to 1 dead obliterator.

Obliterator gets 2 attacks, 1 hits and kills a sarge. Oblit loses, but holds.

Other oblits either wait for the other oblit to die and melta the sarge to death, or charge in and PF him to death.

Still we don't know how the table is set up. OK and guys from now on tell where on the table you guys are and please stop saying in the middle it is geting repeditive.

Kogwar wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

Kogwar wrote:3 outflanking scout squads with melta bombs and a pfist.

This is auto-lose.

Exorcist player starts in the middle of the table.

You come on and run.

You get shot, exorcists move away 6".

You run.

You get shot exorcists move away 6"

You Run. So far you've made it almost 24". The exorcists are currently about 48" from the board edge you started on. You've sucked up on average 21 Str 8 AP1 shots... I think your scouts are beginning to look a bit ragged, and you catch up to the exorcists with about 5 more turns of running (on average). Good luck with that.

Not with shrike in the army and if i force you to the middle of the table, it just puts you closer to my main force and the fire you spend on my 85 point group of scouts ( who i forgot to mention have camo cloaks) that stick to cover ( HA HA 3+ COVER BABY) buys my other units ( such as a landraider with atermis moving torwards you with there fun hammers) some time to get to you. GO FUNEL EFFECT!


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Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Well I've already mentioned the redeemer, but the destroyers are an excellent choice!

Hmmm, so we have 300 some points of destroyers. I would go and say ripper swarms again but that's already been done. 3 wounds, mounds of cover saves, etc. So with that being out due to repetition, how about a unit of infiltrating striking scopions with an exarch that's toting a powerfist for only 200 points!

Oh sry someone already used that, and amarines with Khan in a free rhino with pfist sarge and 3 plasma.

Prob with your scout scenario is you are putting the rest of your army into perspective and not his, he could simply devote one extra unit to kill one little scout squad, and lets see...SoB aka WH, meltas for LR...you dont say? in any case to go against 3 squads of 2 oblits I would say...(oh and 6 oblits is 6 PC shots not 8) I say 2 squads of spine gaunts, one 25 one 26, and 5 CC warriors behind them, Scy tal, rend claw, both adrenal, leaping, toxin sacs... no way you kill all that by the time they reach you...


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Oh and table set up doesnt matter, and i would guess the oblits would be in the center anyways, all units deployed to cover the whole board still be in coherency but at that 2" mark so blasts only average one guy on a hit...

Kogwar wrote:Still we don't know how the table is set up. OK and guys from now on tell where on the table you guys are and please stop saying in the middle it is geting repeditive.

We don't need to take the "rest of the army" into account, because by the rules of the thread, it's strictly one unit vs. one unit.

People will stop declaring that they set up "in the middle" when foolish people stop trying to use outflanking units. Stop trying to use outflanking, it fails every time, and is getting repetitive.

ok then so now some one beat mt unit and i should have put outflanking in rhino. To explain my choice i used out flanking because most likely you would put your artilery in the back or in a corner away from everything.

Kogwar wrote:ok then so now some one beat mt unit and i should have put outflanking in rhino. To explain my choice i used out flanking because most likely you would put your artilery in the back or in a corner away from everything.

Even in rhinos, I think the other poster gave a convincing argument for why the 3 squads of oblits would kill the vanguard... I also don't think they can actually outflank without the rules from another unit that you haven't presented, so I think the reigning champ is still 3 squads of two oblits.

This argument is fwacked off anyways. Beat this "unit" is about singular "unit"s in combat, not 3 squads of units. I can kill 3 squads of obliterators with 3 squads of deepstriking stormtroopers w/ 2 melta guns each reliably, but that defeats the purpose of this thread.

Unit vs. unit. NOT 3 units vs. 3 units or 2k vs. 2k, which is where this is headed.

Kungfuhustler wrote:This argument is fwacked off anyways. Beat this "unit" is about singular "unit"s in combat, not 3 squads of units. I can kill 3 squads of obliterators with 3 squads of deepstriking stormtroopers w/ 2 melta guns each reliably, but that defeats the purpose of this thread.

Unit vs. unit. NOT 3 units vs. 3 units or 2k vs. 2k, which is where this is headed.

Did you read the rules on page one?

several months ago... damn thread necromancy.

Since no one has posted a unit i will 5 scouts with camo cloaks in heavy cover with combat blades and pistols about 125 points

Kogwar wrote:Since no one has posted a unit i will 5 scouts with camo cloaks in heavy cover with combat blades and pistols about 125 points

5-man harlequin squad with a shadowseer with 2 harlequins kisses. 128pts. I'll skip through cover, after manourving myself into a loverly charge position & pistol/charge you into oblivion.

NEXT!

Kogwar wrote:Since no one has posted a unit i will 5 scouts with camo cloaks in heavy cover with combat blades and pistols about 125 points

Just because you couldn't beat my oblits.

Mekboy wrote:

Kogwar wrote:Since no one has posted a unit i will 5 scouts with camo cloaks in heavy cover with combat blades and pistols about 125 points

Just because you couldn't beat my oblits.

5-man harlequin squad with a shadowseer with 2 harlequins kisses. 128pts. I'll skip through cover, after manourving myself into a loverly charge position & pistol/charge you into oblivion.

NEXT!

Once, I beat 2 squads of 10 harlequins with 20 boys (shooting!!!!! with sluggasss!!!!)

So I submit to you good sir, 21 slugga boys!!!

Yeh we are past the 200 mark and legion o and legion of damned right behind you with a heavy bolter , flamer it is a ten man squad bye bye boys.

Hydra battery, clear across the table. 225.

Landraider beats hydra

BUT no 3+ inval and i can still hit you even if i move.

I think I'm still winning, as everything mentioned has been over 45 points, the cost of the killakan with grotzooka.

The only thing posted that could maybe beat it is the 43 point tyranid warrior, and it's pretty dicey. Once within 18" the kan can open fire, and has decent odds of hitting and wounding since it's S6 and a scatter dice. And 2 shots!

If it's in cover, you're I1 when you charge him [if you reach it, thanks to the terrain roll] and you're hoping for 6's to get your rends, and hoping for decent damage.

Granted your odds in cc are decent, though, that's for sure.

Who else can stand a lick of a chance to the grotzooka killakan without going over 45 points?

Vyper with a shuriken cannon. You'll get it eventually.

Against Kan:

44
Crisis Suit:
Missile Pod
Flamer
Blacksun

Play Keep away at 30 inches, or JSJ over something the Kan can't shoot past or walk over.

Preditor with no upgrades.

broadside with advanced stabilaztion system 80 points

jariksolo wrote:broadside with advanced stabilaztion system 80 points

3 Chaos Terminators, 90 points.

Canonness Rory wrote:

jariksolo wrote:broadside with advanced stabilaztion system 80 points

3 Chaos Terminators, 90 points.

3 Stealth Suits, 1 Fusion Blaster, 92 points.

Dakka Predator, X points

nyyman wrote:Dakka Predator, X points

Doesn't work well as the suits can deep strike.

6x Viking Ninja Scouts
Flamer
2xPower Weapons
2xPlasma Pistols
6xMeltabombs
6xfrags
Wolfguard Sgt (Combimelta, Powerfist, Wolf pelt, WTN, WTT)
+-220pts

and don't forget, they turn up...
...
...
right behind you

Stygian Mole wrote:6x Viking Ninja Scouts
Flamer
2xPower Weapons
2xPlasma Pistols
6xMeltabombs
6xfrags
Wolfguard Sgt (Combimelta, Powerfist, Wolf pelt, WTN, WTT)
+-220pts

and don't forget, they turn up...
...
...
right behind you

Avatar of Khaine with his invulsave and beastiness.

Don't forget the fact that the unit must cost about as many points as the one before.

Anyways, to counter the Avatar:

5 havocs, 4 missile launchers, starting 48" away.

Flyrant, behind you.

etchya never saw this one coming

Dark Eldar Lord w/agoniser, combat drugs and shadow field; unless the flyrant has warp field or S6 (which pretty much all of them do)... then it gets a little hairy

Shas'o Rymr with two shield drones and body guards. Around 300

Monolith.

orchewer wrote:Monolith.

one vendetta.

a squad of five Fire Dragons.

ungulateman wrote:a squad of five Fire Dragons.

Are you kidding me? 6" move 12" range vs. a fast skimmer with 48" range? Not a chance.

Beating the Vendetta?

Two Hydras: 150 pts.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Beating the Vendetta?

Two Hydras: 150 pts.

That's a lot more like it

One leman russ battle tank with heavy flamer hull weapon

Hmm... Furioso Dreadnought in drop pod. 150 points.

5sternguard with combi melta in drop pod 180


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ungulateman wrote:a squad of five Fire Dragons.

\
Dude seriously not without a waveserpent your not

Kogwar wrote:5sternguard with combi melta in drop pod 180

Pair of obliterators, deepstriking and in reserve...


Or a Defiler, 4 DCCW, in reserve.

Devestator squad x 6 w / RL x 4 ~150

Don't forget one of them is BS 5 now!

........... blood thirster......... hells yeah with all upgrade comes to 300 pionts and throw in some bloodletters for some fun

haha i want you to beat orbital strike- 80 pts.

I win.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:haha i want you to beat orbital strike- 80 pts.

I win.

Sry man orbital strike is not a unit

haha i want you to beat orbital strike- 80 pts.

I win.

Anything not deployed in terrain...

Lets see, 2 death cult assassins should be able to avoid it easily enough. 80 points.

Edit: didn't have the codex handy.

Tooled up Dark Eldar Archon

Define 'tooled up'.

One Leman Russ Executioner with plasma sponsons.

Ravager with 3 Dark Lances and night Shields 125pts (or for the cost of one executioner make that 2 Ravagers with 3 lances each)

3 Scout sentinels with autocannons 120

10x Necron Warriors (180)

Sorry, minimum squad size and all that.

Black Templar Vindicator with old School Power of the Machine Spirit. - 155pts

(or to branch off to another possibility, Ravager with 3 Dissintegrators and Night Shields)

10 Nob-bikers all with power klaws and a pain-boy

And a biker-boss with klaw and slugga

orchewer wrote:10x Necron Warriors (180)

Sorry, minimum squad size and all that.

ITSH all goood just don't go to over board


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OH and CRusader with mm stormb and extra armour, with vanguard hounour guard in it

10 stern guard in a drop pod, 5 combi melta 5 combi plasma power fist. Combat sqauad them when they land, combi melta on lr combi plasma on vanguard.

360 points.

Kogwar wrote:

orchewer wrote:10x Necron Warriors (180)

Sorry, minimum squad size and all that.

ITSH all goood just don't go to over board


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OH and CRusader with mm stormb and extra armour, with vanguard hounour guard in it

You say "don't go overboard" then you post a unit that is far, far, far more expensive than the previous unit...

If this were just "post the most powerful unit" then you could do that, but each unit that follows is supposed to be about the same points cost as the one before.

So, since the last valid entry was the Necron Warriors (sorry sternguard guy!), I'll post the following unit:

5 chaos terminators, 4 combi meltas, heavy flamer.

He he no problem, same unit of sternguard against the terminators, (sorry chaos terminator guy)

The stern guard cost twice as much as the terminators, so they're not a valid entry.

willydstyle wrote:

Kogwar wrote:

orchewer wrote:10x Necron Warriors (180)

Sorry, minimum squad size and all that.

ITSH all goood just don't go to over board


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OH and CRusader with mm stormb and extra armour, with vanguard hounour guard in it

You say "don't go overboard" then you post a unit that is far, far, far more expensive than the previous unit...

If this were just "post the most powerful unit" then you could do that, but each unit that follows is supposed to be about the same points cost as the one before.

So, since the last valid entry was the Necron Warriors (sorry sternguard guy!), I'll post the following unit:

5 chaos terminators, 4 combi meltas, heavy flamer.

Oh sry i thought he said he had ten units of 10 THats a de de de point for me.


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willydstyle wrote:The stern guard cost twice as much as the terminators, so they're not a valid entry.

What stern guard cost 30 if they hold a combi termis cost 40 with nothing

Chaos terminators are 30 each with a combi bolter and power weapon, combi-meltas cost 5, a heavy flamer costs 5, so the unit I posted is 180 points, exactly as much as the 10 Necron Warriors.

The unit of 10 sternguard with 10 combi weapons and a drop pod is 360, according to the guy that posted that unit.

willydstyle wrote:
5 chaos terminators, 4 combi meltas, heavy flamer.

Rough Riders with Mogul Kamir 145points

willydstyle wrote:Chaos terminators are 30 each with a combi bolter and power weapon, combi-meltas cost 5, a heavy flamer costs 5, so the unit I posted is 180 points, exactly as much as the 10 Necron Warriors.

The unit of 10 sternguard with 10 combi weapons and a drop pod is 360, according to the guy that posted that unit.

Sorry forgot ctermis don't come with storms or p fists

My bad you did not post the points cost so I (<--- that guy) assumed it was around 375. 5 stern guard with combi plasmas in a drop pod 185 points against the chaos terminators. I hope this is fair and legal and meets your approval now.

Chaos terminators are 30 each with a combi bolter and power weapon, combi-meltas cost 5, a heavy flamer costs 5, so the unit I posted is 180 points, exactly as much as the 10 Necron Warriors.

as for the rough riders, 5 tactical marines with a combi plasma, in a razorback with hb 140 points.

I think we're on to the rough riders, but I think the stern guard handle them pretty handily as well, so they're the next champs.

2 Penitent engines 160 points

should be fine for either

They're open topped. Plasma guns will tear them up, don't see that working.

A single combi-plasma in each of those 5 mans is going to destroy both penitents?

It's 5 sternguard with a combi-plasma on each one.

Ah my mistake I read it wrong. You would probably be right at that point.

Stock Ironclad Dreadnought with assault launchers in a droppod. 185 points

Why bother with assault launchers?

5 Chaos Terminators, one chainfist, three combi-meltas and a heavy flamer.

willydstyle wrote:Why bother with assault launchers?

5 Chaos Terminators, one chainfist, three combi-meltas and a heavy flamer.

Khaine:145

Kogwar wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Why bother with assault launchers?

5 Chaos Terminators, one chainfist, three combi-meltas and a heavy flamer.

Khaine:145

Two double-EML warwalkers.

Kogwar wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Why bother with assault launchers?

5 Chaos Terminators, one chainfist, three combi-meltas and a heavy flamer.

Khaine:145

5 Grey Knights
125

What kHAine would murder 5 grey knights, kills one with his speer charges goes first with his 4 attacks and slices tham all in half with his ignores armour monsterous attacks.

The Revelator wrote:

Kogwar wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Why bother with assault launchers?

5 Chaos Terminators, one chainfist, three combi-meltas and a heavy flamer.

Khaine:145

5 Grey Knights
125

Avatar goes first, hits on 3s wounds on twos... they don't have power weapons... I'm not seeing it.

Yeh how are 4 guys with no power weapons going to do anything ( one is going to die with his shooting i mean hIts on two wounds on 2 no armour) against 4 wounds with 3+ armour 4+inv maybe if they had a phycannon still unlikely

Yeh how are 4 guys with no power weapons going to do anything ( one is going to die with his shooting i mean hIts on two wounds on 2 no armour) against 4 wounds with 3+ armour 4+inv maybe if they had a phycannon still unlikely

I think that this thread has run its course; rather than people posting what could beat something else, there's some hissy kiddies arguing that what someone else theoretically posted theoretically couldn't beat their own theoretical unit. Mods, lock please?

Dashofpepper wrote:I think that this thread has run its course; rather than people posting what could beat something else, there's some hissy kiddies arguing that what someone else theoretically posted theoretically couldn't beat their own theoretical unit. Mods, lock please?

You haven't been a major participant, you are not the OP... who are you to ask a thread be locked that other posters are using constructively? This is a thread in the tactics section: what unit can beat what other units most of the time is a very valid tactical discussion, and if someone posts a unit that wouldn't work, it should be pointed out.

against Avatar... hmmm

Black Templar Marshal with Iron halo and thunderhammer.

Re roll misses FTW.

Night Bringer

Ratling Snipers

(Or any sort of snipers, really.)

Marbo

Talos

I have no idea how many points Marbo is, but Talos is 100

min size fire dragon squad

Ten Man Eversor Assassination Squad. I winnerz

a moon...drop it like its hooooooooooooot

...

Marneus Calgar.

Hollismason wrote:Ten Man Eversor Assassination Squad. I winnerz

One Calgar is done all used up
and how many points is that assasin squad

Basilisk.

10 Ig vets with as many melta guns as they can carry in a valk

.... I raise you one DH or WH Orbital strike ... 30-80pts of love each turn.

I will say it one more time NO ORBITAL BOMBARDMENTS Im sry they are not a unit they are an ability

Oh and add Creed so I can give them furious charge. Also, how many orbitals can you take in a Apocalypse game.

ONe we ARE NOT USING APOC AND as many as points alow

Restart = 10 Ogryn & Yarrik

Kungfuhustler wrote:Restart = 10 Ogryn & Yarrik

What do you mean by restart as in the Whole thread or just the last few posts but ok i put forward 3guard + cheap combat tyrant

Two Hammerheads with Ion Cannons.

orchewer wrote:Two Hammerheads with Ion Cannons.

One hammerhead with railgun.

wolf scout with melta gun in you back

10 wyches w/ wych weapons. leader w/ agonizer.

Abaddon the Despoiler!! FTW!! - 275pts

(Unless he's been done then soz this is a long thread)

2 Vindicars smite that Abby.

30 shoota boyz.

Question how dose 30 shoota boyz beat 2 Vindicars?

Statistically you're killing one a turn, so you're not going to whittle them down fast enough. And 60 shots, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 5 unsaved means that with a little luck you're dead as soon as we get within 18".

Sternguard_rock wrote:Question how dose 30 shoota boyz beat 2 Vindicars?

I assume you are thinking about Vindicators ammirite?

Mekboy wrote:30 shoota boyz.

3 destroyers. Faster so you can't catch them and longer range so you cant touch them.

Actually, I disagree with the destroyers. 30 Boyz can chase down and kill 3 destroyers.

You get to move 12" per turn and shoot, or turbo-boost 24". The boyz can spread across the board and force you into contact. You'll kill a couple per turn, but you'll be assaulted regardless. Even if you back up to your rear table edge, when the boyz are 12-18" away they can assault you. If you turboboost over them to try getting away, you can only go 24"....which puts you 12" on the other side of them and still in assault range.

3 Destroyers aren't killing 30 Boyz.