It continues to be camper than a Scout Jamboree, and I’m here for it.
Titania is a fun pastiche of egotistical influencer morons. Also an interesting exploration of super human identity and that. The tailor is also fun.
Perhaps not for everyone, but I’m loving it. Nice to see the MCU explored by someone with obvious powers who isn’t particularly interested in that life.
Not post credit sting this week. But there is an Easter egg. And not a subtle one at all.
AduroT wrote: I did laugh when they introduced the screaming goats. I had stopped laughing at them well before they made their final appearance. Hopefully with no more Taika we also get no more Korg.
T:L&T's good bit's are few, and the goats are near the bottom of the list. I hated them the moment they appeared (and the screaming goat meme passed me by, whenever it was). They should've been blown apart in a bloody mess on appearance.
Speaking of blood - on second watching it was brought home, with all the gold blood flying around on the stage at Omnipotent City, what a murderous slaughter the 'heroes' enacted on the guards in that scene. (Have we seen any Asgardian blood before now?)
She-Hulk: enjoying the series so far - looking forward to today's new episode.
Speaking of blood - on second watching it was brought home, with all the gold blood flying around on the stage at Omnipotent City, what a murderous slaughter the 'heroes' enacted on the guards in that scene.
Were the guards not just automatons like we know them from the Greek myths, ones made my the Hephaestus?
Taika is a great director, but I'm not sure he is good at super hero films.
Ragnarok did course correct Thor, but it also reset his entire Arc from thr first movies. How many times does he have to discover himself?
But his other movies, Wildermen and Jojo rabbit.
But even those movies you can see they have character that have alot of his quirks and talk like Korg
H.B.M.C. wrote: The screaming goat meme is 14 years old. Why Taika thought it would be funny now, or, more importantly, funny when repeated 16 times, is beyond me...
Then again he also seemed to take the wrong lessons from James Gunn when it comes to including music in action sequences.
The meme is so old that it is fresh again. My sons wasn’t even born back then, and my wife and I didn’t roll our eyes thinking “that old joke” any more than we would when Looney Tunes or Scooby Doo reused an old Marx Brothers gag. Hey were supposed to be annoying—that was what made them funny. The first scream is funny, then they get annoying, then the gag keeps coming back until it’s even funnier.
Sounds like you didn’t want the Thor movie to be a comedy, and wouldn’t engage it as one. And comedies are subjective anyway. I don’t find most British comedy to be funny at all. That’s fine. Doesn’t make them objectively bad. As we know, you keep asking who these Marvel projects are for—clearly not you. That’s fine. They’re not objectively bad because they aren’t for you.
And Waititi’s use of music was fine. Maybe not as inspired as Gunn’s, but in no way did it ruin the movie.
The goats were funny the first time. Comedy works in threes. Not in three-hundreds.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Sounds like you didn’t want the Thor movie to be a comedy, and wouldn’t engage it as one.
Don't try that on. It's an absurd statement. Ragnarok, which has massive problems with bathos thanks to fething Korg, was 10x funnier than Love & Thunder.
Love & Thunder was stupid. It turned the main character into a bumbling oaf who forgot over a decade's worth of character development. It was insultingly bad. And that's what you get for trusting - to quote James Gunn - unprepared directors.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: And Waititi’s use of music was fine. Maybe not as inspired as Gunn’s, but in no way did it ruin the movie.
I didn't say I ruined the movie. What I said was he took the wrong lessons from Gunn's use of music. Gunn's use of music has thematic resonance with the characters or situation, or is specifically tied to a character (like Quill's Mix Tapes). Taika even did this correctly in Ragnarok, using Immigrant Song, which has that thematic resonance with Thor/Norse Mythology.
Conversely, in Dumb & Dumber, Taika has taken the music that punctuates Guardians movies, but just overlaid 4 GnR songs over various action scenes because... because! They have no relevancy to the plot or themes (with maybe the exception of Sweet Child O' Mine, and even that's a stretch) and are just there because Taika is seemingly obsessed with the 80's.
And everything I just said is incredibly minor next to the colossal yawning void of unfunny that is Korg. feth me dead that character is worse than Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd Anakin Solo and Alfrid from the last two Hobbit movies combined. There's a reason why I've been calling him the Greater Daemon of Bathos ever since Ragnarok came out. He damn near ruined that movie, and he would. Not. Shut. Up. In this film. Even when they finally fething killed him he still didn't actually die!
bbb wrote: I feel like She-Hulk keeps getting stupider and more stupider. For a show that is supposed to be empowering it seems to love tearing Jen down.
I disagree. I think the show is hilarious. And while people AROUND Jen keep trying to tear her down, SHE keeps becoming more sure of herself and feeling more comfortable in both her skin as Jen and her skin as She-Hulk as she reconciles that they are one in the same. That has been the ark for her this entire time. And I would bet money that that is where it ends.
The Edna vibe was strong with the scenes leading up to the superhero fashion guy - it was understandable they didn't do it, and Jennifer's push back against her She-Hulk identity meant we didn't get a "no capes" moment.
Titania did seem like a low threat, very different from the vicious bully persona I remember from just after her creation in the first Secret Wars.
I guess from next week we'll start seeing Jen more overtly embrace her She-Hulk side.
I appreciate the meta joke of the episode. She-Hulk literally exists to prevent CBS from cutting Marvel out of the successful 70's Hulk show by trademarking She-Hulk as had been done with the Bionic Woman. Outside of that though it was a pretty chill episode. Nice story progression, but not as memorably fantastic as last week.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The goats were funny the first time. Comedy works in threes. Not in three-hundreds.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Sounds like you didn’t want the Thor movie to be a comedy, and wouldn’t engage it as one.
Don't try that on. It's an absurd statement. Ragnarok, which has massive problems with bathos thanks to fething Korg, was 10x funnier than Love & Thunder.
Love & Thunder was stupid. It turned the main character into a bumbling oaf who forgot over a decade's worth of character development. It was insultingly bad. And that's what you get for trusting - to quote James Gunn - unprepared directors.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: And Waititi’s use of music was fine. Maybe not as inspired as Gunn’s, but in no way did it ruin the movie.
I didn't say I ruined the movie. What I said was he took the wrong lessons from Gunn's use of music. Gunn's use of music has thematic resonance with the characters or situation, or is specifically tied to a character (like Quill's Mix Tapes). Taika even did this correctly in Ragnarok, using Immigrant Song, which has that thematic resonance with Thor/Norse Mythology.
Conversely, in Dumb & Dumber, Taika has taken the music that punctuates Guardians movies, but just overlaid 4 GnR songs over various action scenes because... because! They have no relevancy to the plot or themes (with maybe the exception of Sweet Child O' Mine, and even that's a stretch) and are just there because Taika is seemingly obsessed with the 80's.
And everything I just said is incredibly minor next to the colossal yawning void of unfunny that is Korg. feth me dead that character is worse than Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd Anakin Solo and Alfrid from the last two Hobbit movies combined. There's a reason why I've been calling him the Greater Daemon of Bathos ever since Ragnarok came out. He damn near ruined that movie, and he would. Not. Shut. Up. In this film. Even when they finally fething killed him he still didn't actually die!
Sounds like we agree on the music and Korg, at least to some extent.
I disagree on Thor. He was always an oaf, and his character was mostly backslid in Endgame. If anything, his vainly grasping for growth makes him feel too realistic a person.
I think the main reason Thor's character feels off is just the way his conflict is introduced. The premise of him being afraid of attachment is a great starting point, but its revealed through his time with the Guardians without ever really getting to see it in his time with the Guardians. We really needed the montage rather than the action scene we got that would let us see Thor not really being part of the team. Maybe get frustrated with Mantis pestering him for being sad? Instead we get Star Lord basically explaining the character to himself before they take off in some intentionally cringey humor that doesn't really land.
There's also this weird insistence that Taika has of ditching any character he has no interest with to the point of being blatantly disrespectful to the fans and the actors.
Think of what he did to The Warriors 3. Imagine what would have happened if Jamie Alexander hadn't have been busy due to filming Blindspot. Sif would've likely died in that film as well. It's a miracle she survived Dumb & Dumber at all.
Then look at the Guardians in that movie. You've got a great set up from Infinity War/Endgame for the 'Asguardians of the Galaxy', some real chemistry between Quill/Thor and especially Rocket/Thor, yet Taika ejects them from the narrative as fast as humanly possible.
Now I never expected the Guardians to be a big part of a Thor movie - it's a Thor movie after all - but they were scarcely in the opening prologue, outside of Quill had maybe a line each, and the relationships built in the previous movies were jettisoned quicker than you can pour a beer over an inanimate object. Dave Bautista has raised concerns about the treatment of Drax in other non-Guardians movies, so I wonder how he felt about spending all that time in make-up to have a single line and just be in the background of two scenes?
Good thing there are other Guardian movies coming, otherwise Taika might've killed them off too!
bbb wrote: I feel like She-Hulk keeps getting stupider and more stupider. For a show that is supposed to be empowering it seems to love tearing Jen down.
That... that's the arc. That's the show. Jen is losing everything she values about herself to the She-Hulk persona, which she didn't ask for and doesn't want.
She wants to prove herself in the career that she spent her adult life building, and she lost it all to a quirk of happenstance, and now everything revolves around this new identity. She wants to be recognized for herself, and everyone else only sees green.
She lost her career in the DA's office, she only gets supers related cases, even her dating life guys actively reject Jen for She-Hulk. Tearing 'Jen' down as a person is the point, until she finds a way to come to terms with it all.
Its why she doesn't have the same problems Bruce had with the Hulk. Being good at Hulk things doesn't matter to Jen, she thinks its all unearned and pointless. Being successful as She-Hulk hurts her more than anything else in the world, because it renders all her real accomplishments (school, debt, DA office, career) pointless and moot.
She-Hulk is a weird show for me, It's fun and I'm enjoying the individual episodes, but it lacks any real substance. I get the themes they're going for, but the last episode was far too blunt with how they were presented, especially in the scene in the bar towards the end.
I'm wondering if they're going to attempt anything approaching a regular story arc or if it's all just going to be character development. They hinted at a wider arc with the Wrecking Crew but they seem to have been forgotten for now. It feels like the show might just end up meandering to something approaching a conclusion, but equally might just sort of peter out.
It's a difficult thing to read, as we don't know the running time for the individual episodes, we really can only speculate where we are in the arc. It might be that the last handful of episodes are 45mins plus (so about 1h 15 after credits and recaps) and there's a lot of story left to tell.
I'm just grateful that all these shows mean the number of movies we have to sit through that are all variations of "introduce character, give character their powers/macguffin, watch character struggle with their new abilities before triumphing over whichever villain has been chosen to be sacrificed on the altar of episode 1" are massively fewer than there'd otherwise need to be.
She just got her super hero suit at the end of this last episode along with a affirmation in her legal battle that she IS She-Hulk. She IS operating with that name and persona.
So, I suspect the rest of the show (4 more episodes) is going to start to explore that super hero life.
Remember, the trailers show her in her super hero suit on a bridge doing some kind of super hero thing when Daredevil shows up. AND that includes a conversation with Matt in a bar. "Jen can help people when society fails them. And She Hulk can help them when the law fails them."
My problem with She Hulk is came to terms with being a Hulk in the first episode.
And came to terms with being She Hulk and a lawyer in the second.
And came to terms with dating as She Hulk in the 3rd.
While it subverted expectations a bit by never going through a Savage She Hulk phase it just seems to be the same revelation that she's a well adjusted person with a a bit of angst.
Now maybe that's where this is going and the first season will end with the façade cracking and Jen going full Hulk Smash. But for now... it's cute. Sometimes.
First episode? So, You’re a Hulk. She accepts the condition she’s now living with.
The rest is her discovering the perks (no more fear of walking alone in the dark, suddenly desirable to certain men she happens to be at least superficially attracted to), and then The Perils Of Fame/Infamy.
She never really ACCEPTED it. The first episode is her being told she is now a hulk and what that means for her. "You can never go back to your old life".
She is determined to prove that wrong. And ends up getting fired and rehired with a new job that focuses on her She-Hulk self. In the first episode She-Hulk was something that she could leave in a box and ignore. The second episode made her put it front and center in order to keep doing her job.
She has spent the entire show running from the fact that she is She Hulk and only reluctantly changing into it when 1) she needed it (wrecking crew/muggers) or 2) she was pressured to (Job/Titania/Dating App with Nikki).
She has yet to actually reconcile the idea that her life is actually different. She still thinks she can just be Jen Walters - Lawyer. And I think the show is going to conclude with some actual super heroic threat where she really steps into what being She Hulk means instead of just a thing she tries to mostly ignore.
I mean. The while point is eventually she will come to realize her and she-hulk are one in the same, same person.
She is hitting snags to realize it, the dating was a big blow because she was the same person, just looked different.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean. The while point is eventually she will come to realize her and she-hulk are one in the same, same person.
She is hitting snags to realize it, the dating was a big blow because she was the same person, just looked different.
Except she says it the first episode!
The scene where Banner is training her and she starts listing all the things that upset her and turning green. Banner things she's about to lose control but she says she's doing it on purpose.
It's like there's no major conflict, Jen would kinda sorta prefer not to be She Hulk but doesn't really mind that much. It's like being the Eagles and not really wanting to play Hotel California every concert but knowing you kinda have to oh well.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean. The while point is eventually she will come to realize her and she-hulk are one in the same, same person.
She is hitting snags to realize it, the dating was a big blow because she was the same person, just looked different.
Except she says it the first episode!
The scene where Banner is training her and she starts listing all the things that upset her and turning green. Banner things she's about to lose control but she says she's doing it on purpose.
It's like there's no major conflict, Jen would kinda sorta prefer not to be She Hulk but doesn't really mind that much. It's like being the Eagles and not really wanting to play Hotel California every concert but knowing you kinda have to oh well.
There is a bit of a difference between being a band and playing your biggest song at every concert (still within the scope of the career and life you have chosen) and being a lawyer and having to use your new found, accidental super powers that everyone around you keeps harping on about to go punch bad guys in the streets (an entirely different scope well outside the life she had been building).
Hasn't that been the tone of the entire series so far?
Yes, it's like people's expectations/hopes keep resetting every 30some minutes.
"Maybe the next episode will be the one where things finally get serious...."
Spoiler: it won't be. So just enjoy it for whatever it is.
It's very much a 30 minute comedy. It is not a film stretched and cut for television. Honestly, I think the more episodic it gets, the better it plays into its strengths.
This new episode was pretty fun. We get a little fight. We get a name drop of a evil marvel organization (and potential set up for the leader?). And we catch a glimpse of at least the organization behind the wrecking crew.
Lance845 wrote: This new episode was pretty fun. We get a little fight. We get a name drop of a evil marvel organization (and potential set up for the leader?). And we catch a glimpse of at least the organization behind the wrecking crew.
Lance845 wrote: This new episode was pretty fun. We get a little fight. We get a name drop of a evil marvel organization (and potential set up for the leader?). And we catch a glimpse of at least the organization behind the wrecking crew.
I missed the name drop.
Intelligencia.
Comics wise it was a semi dark illuminati with the leader, modok, and others like them. I could see the MCU version being a potential branch of AIM or just the Leader.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The Leader is the bloke from Hulk that got the Hulk blood in his head, and we last saw smiling as his bonce expanded.
Let's hope they actually go somewhere with his character, unlike Blonsky. Would suck to see the Leader become another quippy half-baked ego villain.
They have reported that The Leader (Samuel Sterns) will be the main villain for Captain America New World Order. I just wonder if this Intelligencia/Trying to nab some She Hulk blood is set up for whatever his plans are. (Gamma World? Just make a bunch of Hulked out monsters?) For those that don't remember the Hulk movie, Sterns was studying Bruces blood and mass produced a bunch of samples from the small sample Bruce sent him. He could be trying to get a hold of another sample to do it again.
Mrs. GG and I are trying to enjoy She-Hulk but so far just not really clicking with it. Mrs. GG said it reminded her too much of Bridget Jones. I want to watch it in order to keep up the world building of the MCU but it has been a struggle so far. Except for Wong. He was cool. More Wong please.
The more episodic nature of the story makes it feel like the weakest of the MCU series to me for sure, but I’m still enjoying it enough to keep tuning in.
This show is narratively all over the place. Episode 1 makes her out to be a #GirlBoss (I guess at least in her own mind?), but ever since then the show constantly brings her down. It isn't really fun or funny how the show seems to go out of its way to be mean to her. I want She-Hulk to be a great character for the MCU, but they are missing the mark so far.
AduroT wrote: We all know that guy she’s hitting it off with from the wedding Definitely works for the mystery villain, right?
Naturally. The one good guy in the show can't actually be good. That wouldn't fit the show at all.
You are forgetting both her current boss, who is at least neutral, and Pug. And Bruce. And her Dad. And Wong. And maybe Abomination?
You think her dad is a possible romantic interest?
I think you saying that isn't dissimilar to the bride disregarding all of Jen's work and Hulk achievements to reduce her level of success to who she's dating.
The show seems equally gender blind in it mean spirited nature… but for Mrs. GG and I the petty, mean spirited nature of so many of the characters takes it right out of the MCU for us. We feel like we just do not get the show so far but there are a few decent scenes here and there, like with the demons and Wong. Wong Forever!
My wife, daughters (13 & 11), and myself are watching it together, and for any other D+ show we've watched there's always been excitement when a new episode is available. The last 3 Thursdays when I say, "New She-Hulk tonight," both of my kids say, "Oh, I forgot that was tonight."
It's not exciting. It's not an event. It's just kind of there.
The show is as I've been saying since the start: It's a comedy that isn't funny. Big Bang gave me more laughs than this show, and that show as constantly ridiculing its protagonists.
Lance845 wrote: You are forgetting both her current boss, who is at least neutral, and Pug. And Bruce. And her Dad. And Wong. And maybe Abomination?
Current boss? Disinterested corporate guy who cares nothing about Jen other than what her name brings to the firm. Pug? He was doing well until they make him an obsessive sneakerhead. It's fine to have hobbies, it's another to have the show look down on you for having them. Bruce is a hero, and not really part of the show. Wong broke several laws and then absconded when called on it. Abom? Tricked a bunch of women into becoming his "soul mates" in an effort to appear rehabilitated and abandoned them the seconde he was out.
Meanwhile you've got Jen's old boss, who wouldn't talk to her unless he was (literally) smaller than him. Jen's old co-worker who referred to a beautiful woman as an "it", aside from other comically bad exaggerations, a bunch of groomsmen busy playing video games at a wedding and ruining their jackets, a man who has literally abandoned a dozen women (and one man!), a family full of idiots (including the brother, who of course was used as example of "mansplaining"), a host of awful/creepy first dates guys, a weird super-cliche clothes designer, the off-brand Wrecking Crew, a website full of "crying manbabies" that is apparently a pastiche of 4chan (I presume), and finally the latest guy, who I'm sure will be a bad guy.
Even her dad, who is supportive, isn't shown to be particularly competent, just enthusiastic.
Add that to the pre-emptive defence the show has taken within the universe of the show to every criticism of She-Hulk (always completely removed of context, just like every defence of the actual show I've ever seen), and you have a show that has been gaking on men since it's first episode, some in subtle ways, some in hammer-over-the-fething-head ways.
Her boss. Who complimented her winning strategy and how she was beating them in the opening case and then didnt just offer her a job, but made her in charge of an entire division.
Pug, who has never been anything but straight with all the characters in the show. A stand up person.
Bruce, who did what he could to help and offered his support whenever she needed it.
Wong, a hero who gladly offered his service to set Aboms record straight and doesn't know or care about 1 countries laws when he protects the entire dimension as sorcerer supreme.
Abom, who didn't trick anyone and didn't abandon anyone. Where are you getting that from?
Her dad, who again, has never been anything but supportive. When did any of these characters be anything other than decent people?
Abom, who didn't trick anyone and didn't abandon anyone. Where are you getting that from?
During the concept art credits we see Abom taking a bus to get away from his pen pals. I assume that's what they're referring to here?
You mean how the maximum security prison was transporting their prisoner. You don't go from the hearing to walking out the door. Paper work and other gak needs to be done before he is released and his soul mates don't get to get on a prison transport with him.
The internet has basically boiled down to taking single frames of anything and writing 8 paragraph analysis of them and having seen the article on this one specifically, I suspect its where they got the notion.
The worst part is now a bunch of people take that as cannon and are going to be mad when it wasn't actually a hint at some master plan for a future Abomination appearance.
I watched Thor: Love and Thunder and put my thoughts up in the mini-movie review thread for those that are interested. I did not want to de-rail the TV thread.
The internet has basically boiled down to taking single frames of anything and writing 8 paragraph analysis of them and having seen the article on this one specifically, I suspect its where they got the notion.
The worst part is now a bunch of people take that as cannon and are going to be mad when it wasn't actually a hint at some master plan for a future Abomination appearance.
I mean... we already know he has more appearances in the show. We see Jen sitting in a circle with other powered people at Abominations retreat. My assumption is this week Titania will play up She-Hulk beating her up and get her sent to a super hero version of "Anger Management" at Abominations group therapy or whatever. At which point we will see not just him but his 7 soul mates as the staff around the property.
bbb wrote: Just a random thought, but shouldn't Jen have registered by now with the government due to the Sokovia Accords?
Sokovia Accords isn't a government registration. Sokovia Accords handles international relations with super powered individuals. Spiderman isn't held to the Sokovia Accords in Homecoming because Spiderman is acting on US soil as a US enhanced individual. In Far From Home he is working for shield. So Shield is stepping in for him to get that covered.
The Avengers were a US based enhanced group who crossed international boarders and acted without any international oversight. Sokovia Accords was about creating UN based legislation for what was and was not allowed and how it would be penalized moving forward.
Hmm... then I guess Ms. Marvel violated them by going to Pakistan and doing superhero stuff.
I get that She-Hulk is supposed to be a comedy, but it's a weird tonal shift going from Ms. Marvel with Damage Control going after her, Wandavision with SWORD trying to take down Wanda, and then to She-Hulk with no governmental group interested in her at all.
Well, Jen hasn’t really done much in the way of super heroics.
She’s defended a court room against Titania, who acted as an aggressor, and defended herself against the idiot in the wrecking crew and Titania, both cases where the other party acted as the aggressor.
Plus. Jen is a US Citizen (unlike Wanda), a grown adult (unlike Kamala)….and most of all? A lawyer, so not someone tried to infringe upon the rights of lightly.
bbb wrote: Hmm... then I guess Ms. Marvel violated them by going to Pakistan and doing superhero stuff.
I get that She-Hulk is supposed to be a comedy, but it's a weird tonal shift going from Ms. Marvel with Damage Control going after her, Wandavision with SWORD trying to take down Wanda, and then to She-Hulk with no governmental group interested in her at all.
You need to put it into context of what the powered people have done.
Wanda broke into a Sword installation looking for the Visions remains then created the Hex and took over an entire town. Meanwhile Sword was interested in her because they couldn't figure out how to turn the vision back on but Wanda was known to have a connection with the Mind Stone that maybe powered him?
Damage Control was looking for Ms Marvel because her powers were displayed very publicly causing a bunch of damage and risking lives. In all likelihood when they first cornered her in that ally, if she had come along peacefully, they would have just interviewed her to find out who she was, what she was doing, and give her some warning about the potential damage she can cause and the consequences there of. Damage Control only really escalated into violent actions when one of their members went rogue and sent in soldiers to a place they were specifically told to stay out of. IF any authorities could identify Kamala as acting over seas then maybe the Sokovia accords would apply. But 1) What relationship does Pakistan have with the UN and did they sign the Accords? 2) what damage was caused by her in Pakistan? 3) did any authorities manage to trace anything that happened there to her and identify her as a US citizen?
Jen... 1) Is publicly known who she is. 2) hasn't broken any laws or caused any damage. 3) can be spoken to at any time if Damage Control has any questions.
While the show continues to fail at being a "legal comedy", or even just a comedy in general, this episode was wildly entertaining and had some real pathos to it. Using Blonsky and his group of Z-list super villains as a way of working through her anxiety and identity issues was a clever choice. The inclusion of cut-price Wrecker was also a nice touch.
Even better: It was a complete story, with a beginning, middle and end. It was paced well. It didn't suddenly stop at the end of an act-break like so many other D+ shows. And whilst the 17 and a half minutes of credits remains endlessly annoying (across all D+ productions), when they finally did start it didn't feel jarring or like we were missing a reel. Well done show!
Pity Josh turned out to be exactly what we thought he'd be...
I just watched the first 6 episodes of She Hulk and frankly I don't get why the public of Rotten Tomato is so harsh on it. Maybe it's because of some die hard fan of the comic book character (who I wouldn't except to have significant dedicated fanbase). The show is of course ridiculous, but it's title is literally "She-Hulk attorney at law" which cannot be taken seriously. For the little appearance of the character in comic books I have read, she is indeed a "joke character" mostly used for sex jokes and legal jokes to allow heroes and villains to do all sort of stupid stuff which is kinda true to form in the show so far. It's not hilarious, but it's kinda funny, short and reasonably well acted though the special effects are pretty bad. I think I like it more than the Hawkeye and WandaVision series though it's a far cry from the excellent Loki.
I think the problem with She Hulk is the same problem a lot of comics have.
Fans have been trained to look at the larger universe and once they realize that nothing that happens in 'Lite Humor Cute Book' is going to factor into the next cross over they stop reading it. Even if Lite Humor Cute Book is entertaining.
The second problem is that humor is not all that funny (as HBMS said). I thought Abomination's therapy group was mildly amusing but as usual it was just broad cliches and ha-ha new age therapy but with super villains. Ha. Oh my sides.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I think the problem with She Hulk is the same problem a lot of comics have.
Fans have been trained to look at the larger universe and once they realize that nothing that happens in 'Lite Humor Cute Book' is going to factor into the next cross over they stop reading it. Even if Lite Humor Cute Book is entertaining.
The second problem is that humor is not all that funny (as HBMS said). I thought Abomination's therapy group was mildly amusing but as usual it was just broad cliches and ha-ha new age therapy but with super villains. Ha. Oh my sides.
Frankly the only scene that I actually thought were funny were the terrible dating scenes and Titania's general character, the others were not good, but they didn't annoy me either. In general, I like the pacing of the show as it doesn't get tedious when it's not good which is a pretty interesting trait.
We'll see if it's a better call than a TV series, though hopefully this forces it to have better pacing with regards to setting up the conflict in the story.
Hmmm... I was hoping armor wars would feature a bunch of characters (Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Dr Doom). I wonder how much they can actually fit into a movie. But, if its the correct format, then go for it.
Lance845 wrote: Hmmm... I was hoping armor wars would feature a bunch of characters (Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Dr Doom). I wonder how much they can actually fit into a movie. But, if its the correct format, then go for it.
There will be riots if Stilt-Man doesn’t make the cut for the film...
Lance845 wrote: Hmmm... I was hoping armor wars would feature a bunch of characters (Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Dr Doom). I wonder how much they can actually fit into a movie. But, if its the correct format, then go for it.
There will be riots if Stilt-Man doesn’t make the cut for the film...
We enjoyed the last She Hulk episode. Got some actual laughs from Man-bill and Aguila (and one from Saracen). The obvious bad guy ghosting her felt a little too drawn out, but I suppose that helps put her in a headspace to join the retreat. If the next guy she dates turns out to be a jerk, it’s going to get tiresome.
During Marvel Studios’ big presentation at D23 Expo, they officially announced that cast of its Thunderbolts movie, and apparently, Harrison Ford was supposed to be included in that announcement. He’s reportedly been cast in the role of General Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross and will replace the late William Hurt, who previously played the character.
So, why wasn’t Ford included in the cast line-up at the event? According to The Ankler insider Jeff Sneider, Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy put her foot down and said no. She did want the announcement to take attention away from Indiana Jones 5.
I predict this week is Dare Devil. The bar scene from the previews where he gives his you have 2 ways to help people will be towards the end of the episode. It will be the call to action for the finale.
Grimskul wrote: We'll see if it's a better call than a TV series, though hopefully this forces it to have better pacing with regards to setting up the conflict in the story.
I was really looking forward to Armour Wars, but I do have to temper this disappointment with the notion that now it won't be a poorly paced 20m episodes + 15 minutes of credits D+ series that ends episodes halfway through scenes and leaves you feeling like you're watching something that just isn't finished week to week.
Grimskul wrote: We'll see if it's a better call than a TV series, though hopefully this forces it to have better pacing with regards to setting up the conflict in the story.
I was really looking forward to Armour Wars, but I do have to temper this disappointment with the notion that now it won't be a poorly paced 20m episodes + 15 minutes of credits D+ series that ends episodes halfway through scenes and leaves you feeling like you're watching something that just isn't finished week to week.
So maybe a movie will be better?
Yeah, it's shocking how much they've wasted the longer format that would have normally provided more air time to set up more character development for overarching villains and the protagonists but I guess Disney can't seem to wrap their heads around what other TV shows have been able to do for years.
Tangentially related, but if you like Lower Decks you might want to check out Final Space, and do so soon because HBO is wiping it from all official services.
Yeah but the upside is that Final Space seems like the kind of show people will spend 20 years trying to revive and over the past 20 years those have sometimes been oddly successful in getting a finale or subsequent entry made so maybe it'll get an ending eventually.
I liked the first season of Final Space but then it got a lot less interesting for me after the second season so I never bothered following up with it afterwards. Really shows how you need pirating or DVD sets to actually keep shows alive rather relying on streaming services though.
She - Hulk episode 8 - a really fun one. Daredevil's fights were even better than in his own show. What I did not like was his costume' colors (Was it like that in comics? I thought he is supposed to wear red), and how Jen destroyed that car (Would she really care not about damaging someones property?).
I haven't yet seen the episode - but I guess with a Asgardian enclave and the explosion of what seems to be 3rd tier supers in She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, that registering them seems unworkable.
Of course, getting rid of the Sakovia Accords means there is room for the Mutant Registration Act.
Shadow Walker wrote: She - Hulk episode 8 - a really fun one. Daredevil's fights were even better than in his own show. What I did not like was his costume' colors (Was it like that in comics? I thought he is supposed to wear red), and how Jen destroyed that car (Would she really care not about damaging someones property?).
So that was the big plan, to put up embarrassing photos or Jen and call her a slut in front of people who would obviously know better?
Dealing with some real masterminds here... totally no projecting from the writers at all. Nosireebob!
Aside from the tacked on bit from the end - as stated by Jen herself - the rest of it worked pretty well. It's clear that MCU Daredevil is far less grounded than Netflix Daredevil, even if there was a tiny bit of the original theme played when he introduced himself.
It is of course taking the piss out of Weird Internet Man Babies, hence the claim she “stole” her powers from Hulk, and the doxxing, literally trying to embarrass or shame her for…..fully consenting adult behaviour.
The desire for the reaction? Probably “wImMiNs R 2 EmOsHuNaL” type tripe.
The writers have been directly taking all of those comments from twitter and the comments section of YouTube promo materials. They have posted comparison shots of the dialog or text in the show next to the tweets and gak that they more or less copy pasted into the show. There is no projecting. It's just putting in the show what actually happened in life.
Shadow Walker wrote: She - Hulk episode 8 - a really fun one. Daredevil's fights were even better than in his own show. What I did not like was his costume' colors (Was it like that in comics? I thought he is supposed to wear red), and how Jen destroyed that car (Would she really care not about damaging someones property?).
Link doesn't seem to be working, but yes, Daredevil's original costume was yellow. It was replaced with the red one very early on though.
Shadow Walker wrote: She - Hulk episode 8 - a really fun one. Daredevil's fights were even better than in his own show. What I did not like was his costume' colors (Was it like that in comics? I thought he is supposed to wear red), and how Jen destroyed that car (Would she really care not about damaging someones property?).
Link doesn't seem to be working, but yes, Daredevil's original costume was yellow. It was replaced with the red one very early on though.
Hm, weird, seems fine from my end. Irregardless, you can just Google Daredevil Yellow to see the comic version of this mixed red and yellow suit.
There was a good reason they went from yellow to red and this isn't even a good yellow. I do not care for the Urine Dare Devil suit.
I have to admit I didn't expect Matt Murdoch's intro to the MCU be him and Jen doing the (Dare)Devil's Tango but here we are.
Also the DD fight choreography was nowhere near as good as the older series fights. it was fine but a bit more CGI than I would like but the Netflix series had amazingly choreographed and shot fight scenes. This was MCU de rigueur.
Ahtman wrote: There was a good reason they went from yellow to red and this isn't even a good yellow. I do not care for the Urine Dare Devil suit.
I have to admit I didn't expect Matt Murdoch's intro to the MCU be him and Jen doing the (Dare)Devil's Tango but here we are.
Also the DD fight choreography was nowhere near as good as the older series fights. it was fine but a bit more CGI than I would like but the Netflix series had amazingly choreographed and shot fight scenes. This was MCU de rigueur.
It wasn’t. He’s in No Way Home
Which I think I’ll watch again after La Llorona is finished.
Lance845 wrote:I appreciated seeing how Matt gets around buildings in the MCU something the Netflix one was never quite capable of doing.
Leaping off the sides of buildings and working his way down to the ground was great. Will enjoy seeing more of that.
I agree that was really well done.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It wasn’t. He’s in No Way Home
Eh, that was just a cameo as Murdoch as opposed to having something meaningful to do as both MMandDD. It is like the difference between Venom's first appearance that is just a single panel with no dialogue and the first comic where he actually does something throughout the issue. Still, you are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
Also I again I reiterate my dislike for the urine colored suit. It is just awful.
Edit: So does Jen Hulking out at the end of the episode recontextualize her statements from the first episode where she said that she always controls her anger because she is a woman in a man's world? It seems like maybe she was just telling herself that and that in the end it is just a different set of triggers that make her go to the smashy smash place.
Everyone’s got their limit. And if, as we see, a bunch of Weird Internet Man Babies decide to deliberately provoke someone? That limit can be reached and breached.
LordofHats wrote: Yeah but the upside is that Final Space seems like the kind of show people will spend 20 years trying to revive and over the past 20 years those have sometimes been oddly successful in getting a finale or subsequent entry made so maybe it'll get an ending eventually.
With HBO deleting it from everywhere... it might prove more difficult.
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Shadow Walker wrote: She - Hulk episode 8 - a really fun one. Daredevil's fights were even better than in his own show. What I did not like was his costume' colors (Was it like that in comics? I thought he is supposed to wear red), and how Jen destroyed that car (Would she really care not about damaging someones property?).
It depends on the era, as most superheroes:
It's more complicated than this as it's gone back and forth between costumes from time to time, but...
Automatically Appended Next Post: It’s good. It’s very very good. Not for Kids, as whilst not gory, the violence is surprisingly graphic. I’d definitely advise anyone with Smalls to watch it first, and decide if it’s suitable viewing.
I apparently missed this was to be a one shot special, thought it was another series. But yes, still quite good even if the story beats are rather predictable. I love the little touches like cigarette burns in the corner.
Wow. Werewolf By Night is pretty great. That is 3 Marvel Characters I never thought would be in live action all in a concise little movie that nailed it for all of them.
It is very... light on content, but it doesn't need to be anything more than a quick, fun, competently made tale. They style downplays the violence and makes it a bit cartoony. Refreshing after 7 episodes of She-Hulk.
Probably slightly lower if only because it’s black and white so less of that crimson splatter, not that there’s a lack of splatter mind.
In terms of what’s shown on screen? Terminator. But, a fair amount of the resulting nastiness is off-screen/implied. Not all of it, mind. Hence I (no kids, little frame of reference) can’t volunteer a rating.
It's a 16+, which is the same rating as they've given Venom on D+ UK.
It's far more deserving of the number, but I'd still say it's a little conservative.
Highlights of violence include
- dismemberment
- penetrating throat wound that exits via jaw
- throat slash resulting in blood spatter on camera
- repeated impacts of skulls off various hard surfaces, not in anyway visually troubling but the Foley is on point.
- sword cleave into skull with weapon remaining embedded.
- multiple superficial bladed cuts
While the impact of this is heavily mitigated by the b+w filter, that should give.you an idea of the level.
AduroT wrote: Nah, she still looked largely in control there, just quite justifiably angry.
I disagree. Her friend tried to get through to her and she ignored it, she destroyed two walls, picked someone up by their throat, and was breathing heavily through gritted teeth. That was a loss of control not just being upset.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Grabbed the guy by the throat - didn’t rend him limb from limb. Didn’t go on a rampage.
Do you really expect a show with this tone to ever have Jen rip someone in half? And as Lance845 pointed out she was coming around. A mini-rampage is still a rampage.
Yeah the stuff that Elsa does is more violent than what the Werewolf does.
Ultimately it's not really scary, despite being billed as 'horror', and the larger-than-normal amounts of blood (for the MCU) is mitigated by the black and white-ness of the picture.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah the stuff that Elsa does is more violent than what the Werewolf does.
Ultimately it's not really scary, despite being billed as 'horror', and the larger-than-normal amounts of blood (for the MCU) is mitigated by the black and white-ness of the picture.
Horror cinema isn't really about being scary though. It CAN be. But it's not. Little Shop of Horrors is a horror comedy musical that isn't scary at all. It took me awhile spending time with people in the horror cinema scene to really get that. But it's true.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah the stuff that Elsa does is more violent than what the Werewolf does..
She’s a widow, right?
In comics she's the daughter of an immortal monster hunter named Ulysses Bloodstone and powered by a bloodstone that gives her the usual stronger/tougher power set.
Did you guys catch the “this end up” on the coffin? We couldn’t figure out if that was supposed to be there in-universe or if it was supposed to evoke the low budget film-making of old time horror movies.
She is not a Black Widow in either comics or the MCU. And her Father was Immortal because of the Bloodstone. Comics wise, her father had his blood stone embedded in his chest Tony Stark ark reactor style.
When his Blood Stone was removed he aged to his appropriate age (thousands of years old) and turned into a pile of dust and bones.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Did you guys catch the “this end up” on the coffin? We couldn’t figure out if that was supposed to be there in-universe or if it was supposed to evoke the low budget film-making of old time horror movies.
Lance845 wrote: She is not a Black Widow in either comics or the MCU. And her Father was Immortal because of the Bloodstone. Comics wise, her father had his blood stone embedded in his chest Tony Stark ark reactor style.
When his Blood Stone was removed he aged to his appropriate age (thousands of years old) and turned into a pile of dust and bones.
With her long absence and her combat training, I was wondering if she had been fallen into the clutches of the Widow program and had been recently freed.
Lance845 wrote: She is not a Black Widow in either comics or the MCU. And her Father was Immortal because of the Bloodstone. Comics wise, her father had his blood stone embedded in his chest Tony Stark ark reactor style.
When his Blood Stone was removed he aged to his appropriate age (thousands of years old) and turned into a pile of dust and bones.
With her long absence and her combat training, I was wondering if she had been fallen into the clutches of the Widow program and had been recently freed.
We do not have anything to indicate to us that that ever occurred. Especially because the widows are taken as children and Elsa seems to have run away as some kind of adult after getting lots of training from her father/step mother.
Story wise it takes away a lot of her agency of having made the choice to leave her family's bs behind if she was just kidnapped by the Red Room.
Her character doesn't read as someone who's been ripped away from the bosom of her family and has rushed back to them at the earliest opportunity, only to be devastated that they're too late to be reunited with their father.
Apparently the She Hulk finale this week is a record breaker, for being the shortest finale of any D+ Marvel series so far.
Not really a surprise given the run time of most other episodes, but feels like there's a lot of threads to be gathered up in that time, especially given with what's already known to be in it.
I know a lot of the show was revised in post, like the whole car crash scene with Bruce explaining how Jen got her Hulk was supposed to be a reveal a lot later on, only to have it changed to be part of the opening episode, so it's distinctly possible, they'd have just needed a few reshoots for the "why hasnt the episode ended?" break to make it work.
Mm. Nah. Didn’t care for it. The forth wall thing was Too excessive for me. I would rather it had just happened in the show instead of having to have the explanation of it beat me over the head.
After the first half of that episode they really need to re-title the show to "She-Hulk: Poisoning the Well". Have I said that already? I feels like I have.
Anyway, that uhh.. did not go where I was expecting it to.
I mean breaking the 4th Wall is one thing. Breaking out of the show, into the D+ menu, getting into a fist fight with Disney Studios security personnel in the Marvel Studios office and then facing down a GLaDOS-version of Kevin Feige... I mean... what?
And then Skaar. And Blonsky. And Daredevil literally falling in from no where. It was a fun episode. A total mess from start to finish, and generally didn't pay off anything the show set up (not talking about the blood-plot), and it wasn't funny... again... but geeze, it was creative! I'll give it that.
I really enjoyed it. I think She Hulk is one of the funniest things they have managed to put out so far. I am going to go back and rewatch in 3ish episode chunks. As I said, I think the show will probably come across better in a binge. Lots of fun. Can't wait for more. fething Skaar man.
She-Hulk finale…. Well Mrs. GG and I did not see that coming. The show has been mediocre up to this point but this episode finally got some laughs out of me, largely because it was just plain crazy in how much it makes fun of itself, the MCU and the industry itself. K.E.V.I.N was absolutely brilliant. Not sure it was worth it in the end to have watched the otherwise disappointing show given there is so much out there to watch but at least it ended with a laugh.
I actually went backwards, and have started watching Agent Carter. The first few episodes have been pretty strong, and the time and place are super solid. Way better than Agents of Shield started.
This show was completely all over the place for me. I hated episodes 1, 3, 5 and 6, but thought the rest were quite good. I have no idea how to score the show as a whole. Really dug the finale, but I suspect it will be hugely divisive.
Overall I found it an ok enjoyable series. Not great, not bad, but definitely in the lower half of the MCU series to me. The Savage She Hulk opening to the finale was a nice touch, but it was otherwise the worst episode imho, the only one I actively disliked, and the resolution makes little sense to me.
She hulks out, goes into apparent rage and smashes stuff and scares people. But I was set up and embarrassed/provoked by this secret cabal of dudes! Don’t care, you hulked out and smashed stuff and scared these people, no more powers for you. What if I told you the leader of the Cabal was this specific dude? Oh, ok, all charges are dropped then, don’t worry about it.
Why did they even show up to arrest him? Is what he did, once you erase the blood plot and him gaining powers, something they immediately send out cars for and arrest him on your word alone? Absolutely take him to court and sue him for all the money, but the arrest seems odd.
I also didn’t care for the breaking out of the show bit. It just went on too long and I would rather they had simply done and shown her version of the resolution instead of explaining it and beating you over the head with it.
Lastly, why’d she rat out Blonsky for violating his parole? He wasn’t doing anything evil with his powers, and when there was a fight he immediately used them to try to protect her. Sending him back to prison for ten years over thats kind of harsh.
I mean I could offer a more cohesive opinion but nice about covers it.
The 4th wall breaking was clever when Mel Brooks did in Blazing Saddles, fun for Moonlighting and Ferris Bueler and of course the 80 John Byrne She Hulk comics, but 30-40 years later it's... nice.
Lastly, why’d she rat out Blonsky for violating his parole? He wasn’t doing anything evil with his powers, and when there was a fight he immediately used them to try to protect her. Sending him back to prison for ten years over thats kind of harsh.
She is a lawyer. Who cares about the law. She spent the entire show trying to handle things legally with the court system. And then during her 4th wall break talked about how she wanted to handle the ending with the law. And Blonski to take responsibility for his actions.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The 4th wall breaking was clever when Mel Brooks did in Blazing Saddles, fun for Moonlighting and Ferris Bueler and of course the 80 John Byrne She Hulk comics, but 30-40 years later it's... nice.
AduroT wrote: She used her Hulk powers while she wasn’t supposed to either, why does she get a free pass?
Because in the meta commentary of the episode/seasons conclusion this was about justice. Jen never actually did anything wrong except some property damage. Which she can pay for with money. Giving her the same restrictions as at least attempted murderer Blonski is not justice.
Also, the News guy on the steps says that in light of the intelligencia stuff she was cleared of her previous conviction. So it was resolved off screen.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The 4th wall breaking was clever when Mel Brooks did in Blazing Saddles, fun for Moonlighting and Ferris Bueler and of course the 80 John Byrne She Hulk comics, but 30-40 years later it's... nice.
AduroT wrote: She used her Hulk powers while she wasn’t supposed to either, why does she get a free pass?
Because in the meta commentary of the episode/seasons conclusion this was about justice. Jen never actually did anything wrong except some property damage. Which she can pay for with money. Giving her the same restrictions as at least attempted murderer Blonski is not justice.
Also, the News guy on the steps says that in light of the intelligencia stuff she was cleared of her previous conviction. So it was resolved off screen.
Ah yes, the best way to resolve your finale, off screen.
She was never convicted or even charged with anything. DDC agrees not to press charges as long as she's willing to wear the inhibitor. She's not on parole, there's not actually anything stopping her from removing it other than the threat of the DDC filing against her if she does.
As stated, the idea of charging her didn't have a lot of merit to begin with. No one was harmed, just property damage. She didn't even resist arrest. It's mostly just to appease the public scared by media hype. With that past, following through on the threats to charge her and bring it to court where it likely turns into a plea bargain anyway doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Overall, I liked the series though it wasn't great, but I really disliked the finale. While I agree that the "transform into villain via blood" and Bruce Banner comes back for a big brawl at the end and Abomination was a villain all along was a bad idea and that Jen's idea was better why not just do that in the first place. Why setup the bad ending" then say it's stupid, explain to the viewers why it's bad and what could make it better with a fourth wall breaking scenario instead of just doing the better more "show consistent" and She-Hulk centered ending within the show itself. One of my biggest critique of the show is that it spent a lot of time speaking and explaining itself at the audience instead of just doing it. It's like they were convinced the audience wouldn't "get it" without the character spelling it out for us too and that we would have rolled our eyes without it. Don't make a show that needs to justify itself all the time, just do it and if people don't like well too bad. Have confidence in your product. The idea of a "legal-comedy" with a superhero at the center of it is not bad. The acting and the scenario were not bad. It would have been better without all the attempts at self justification.
Now, I out to watch Andor and hopes it will be as good as it's trailer looked like.
They were “throwing shade” at the MCU formula. It might have worked better if they fought a CGI army under a blue sky beam. Instead, it felt rather toothless.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: They were “throwing shade” at the MCU formula. It might have worked better if they fought a CGI army under a blue sky beam. Instead, it felt rather toothless.
Or if they were going to change the pattern, which I highly doubt; admitting they do the same thing quite a bit doesn't really mean much if all it is is recognition.
It felt was a tad smug and self congratulatory with undertones of mocking the fan base for tolerating the same fairy tale over and over (although box office on Wackadoo Wanda and Eternals suggests there are limits)
And as a more memory capable member of my nerd herd pointed out various Heroes have met "The Creator" usually depicted as Jack or Stan on numerous occasions
So, a slow rainy day & evening.
I finally got around to watching "What If...." It was ok. Up until the final two episodes when they decided it all had to tie together into it's own story. :(
I really enjoyed the final two episodes, though I was also expecting that team up right from the very start so it was fun to watch them introduce characters. Was surprised it was the zombies/Wanda and not Spider-Man they pulled from the zombies episode though…
I finished season 1 of Agent Carter and it was a really strong season. There was one ropey episode involving the Howling Commandos, but overall it was pretty good stuff.
I would argue it might even have been better than the more recent Marvel TV I have watched.
ccs wrote: So, a slow rainy day & evening.
I finally got around to watching "What If...." It was ok. Up until the final two episodes when they decided it all had to tie together into it's own story. :(
The big problem with What If... has always been that it doesn't have room to breath. They take these massive events and rearrange them from the ground up and then tell the story of how this changes the whole world in either one comic issue or a 30 minute show.
I felt like the Guardians of the Multiverse wasn't any worse than all the times the comics did pretty much the same thing with a "super team recruited from throughout the multiverse on a multiversal mission" thing.
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epronovost wrote: Overall, I liked the series though it wasn't great, but I really disliked the finale. While I agree that the "transform into villain via blood" and Bruce Banner comes back for a big brawl at the end and Abomination was a villain all along was a bad idea and that Jen's idea was better why not just do that in the first place. Why setup the bad ending" then say it's stupid, explain to the viewers why it's bad and what could make it better with a fourth wall breaking scenario instead of just doing the better more "show consistent" and She-Hulk centered ending within the show itself. One of my biggest critique of the show is that it spent a lot of time speaking and explaining itself at the audience instead of just doing it. It's like they were convinced the audience wouldn't "get it" without the character spelling it out for us too and that we would have rolled our eyes without it. Don't make a show that needs to justify itself all the time, just do it and if people don't like well too bad. Have confidence in your product. The idea of a "legal-comedy" with a superhero at the center of it is not bad. The acting and the scenario were not bad. It would have been better without all the attempts at self justification.
I think you have some points, but I saw one of the main conflicts of the show was displayed through the point-counter-point of the show's identity as both a super hero show and a legal comedy and by extension Jen's identity as a lawyer with a fairly normal life and as a super hero. It kind of does make sense for that conflict to come down to an argument between Jen and Kevin.
But one of the things I was most looking forward to with the show was how it breaks the 4th wall, and I rather liked the comment on how this is the first show to not have a super-hero brawl ending despite it not being the first that deserved one (ie- Wandavision). In the overall MCU narrative, I think the 4th wall breaking of the ending was important.
Eternals and Inhumans, watched and… found disappointing,
Inhumans really came across like a late 80's, early 90's show. Was that intentional? And the finale… what a lame let down conclusion with zero tie in to the rest of the MCU.
Eternals was much… grander. And yet still unsatisfying. It felt like the writing just was not up to the task of trying to convey such a… large scale, epic really, crisis…yet again. Too much, too loud, too often with not enough to really feel invested in the characters or story itself. Trying to get it to fit into a same drama drenched setting as the “Blip” just did not work as well as the Multiverse plot line seems to do.
As a movie? It’s competent enough. Acting is good, scenes are interesting. The plot itself is actually alright overall. But.
But
But….as a MCU movie? It feels more like a Sony or Fox “we are part of the MCU! WE ARE HIM!” type effort, where it just doesn’t really fit, because whoever made it only has the rights to The Eternals, so can’t really reference the rest of the stable.
Also? Minus One Hundred And Eleventy Twelve Points for casting the creepy Harry Styles. He’s not a great singer. And he’s a worse actor than he is a singer. Just…..no need.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Eternals and Inhumans, watched and… found disappointing,
Inhumans really came across like a late 80's, early 90's show. Was that intentional? And the finale… what a lame let down conclusion with zero tie in to the rest of the MCU.
Eternals was much… grander. And yet still unsatisfying. It felt like the writing just was not up to the task of trying to convey such a… large scale, epic really, crisis…yet again. Too much, too loud, too often with not enough to really feel invested in the characters or story itself. Trying to get it to fit into a same drama drenched setting as the “Blip” just did not work as well as the Multiverse plot line seems to do.
You watched inhimans? I am sorry.
That show was basically Ike Pearlmutters revenge for Kevin Fiege taking control of the MCU. Ike was clearly forcing there to be an Inhumans movie. Which got quietly cancled. So Ike decided to just make it a show instead.
As a movie? It’s competent enough. Acting is good, scenes are interesting. The plot itself is actually alright overall.
The primary problem with The Eternals is pacing. There are too many characters and we spend too much time assembling the team, and spend very little time dealing with the actual plot.
Most of the film is about going around and picking up everyone from "the old gang," introducing them (with lots of flashbacks) and then moving on to the next one who is in some other very remote part of the world. All that moving around really kills the 'ticking bomb' tension they're trying to build.
All of that globe trotting to go have a low stakes talk about how each characters should come along to save the world misses the story beats that ought to push the plot forward. Sure, we interact with monsters from time to time, but that doesn't change our characters plan- they're still going to go find the next Eternal and sit down on the couch and talk them into joining the team again (missing the beats makes the film seem longer than it is in an already long film).
It is like they spent the whole movie to get to the point where the Avengers are on the ship together.
Then the film tried to make up for this lack of tension by having the actors try to act more tense for longer- which just became exhausting and killed the tension further. Plus now you don't really get to like any of the too many characters we're watching.
AND ON TOP OF THAT- it has the problem of not doing anything with its MCU setting. We've apparently got all the time in the world to go about globe trotting to pick up all the characters- so why don't any of the other MCU characters notice the crazy things happening and get involved? Why don't any of our characters contact the other MCU heroes while they're picking up all their Eternal friends? But Eternals ties in not at all and they do big showy things that should attract the attention of other MCU characters.
The MCU really works best when it works within its interconnectedness. I love how the MCU Spider-Man films aren't solo films.
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Inhumans really came across like a late 80's, early 90's show. Was that intentional? And the finale… what a lame let down conclusion with zero tie in to the rest of the MCU.
Inhumans reminded me a bit of the GenX pilot with white Jubilee that was never made into a series. Too low budget for characters to use their powers, and a terrible script to boot.
My wife and I were both rather surprised with how much we liked Eternals. I totally get that its probably not what people wanted and its definitely not for everyone, but I greatly enjoyed the slow build of character dynamics and the scope and scale of their lives. It wasn't really ever exciting, but about halfway through I realized I was far more invested than I expected to be.
Inhumans is a trainwreck that mostly came down to fulfilling contractual oblications.
AduroT wrote: Did Inhumans have a finale? I thought it just kind of got canceled and stopped.
They finished airing a first season. I remember it kind of came to something like a conclusion? I think Black Bolt talked at something in the end and all the Inhumans moved to Hawaii
Eternals had Kumail Nanjiani and his friend, so it’s not all bad. And the guy who played Druig was almost as unnerving as David Tennant’s Purple Man, possibly on purpose. It’s a shame the rest of the film was basically BVS levels of plodding cringe.
Inhumans made so many mistakes it was't even funny by the end. It was just sad.
I mean it starts with taking Medusa and cutting off her hair - great! - and then has Maximus, the bad guy, be the one who wants to free all the slaves working in the mines. Wait... he's the bad guy? And so many pointless and illogical plot threads, like the military guys in Hawaii who after knowing Gorgon for about 8 seconds are ready to lay down their lives fighting alongside him, or giving Karnak a head injury so he can't use his abilities (that show was so beneath what Ken Leung was doing with that character - he deserved better). The only character I liked was Laser Face (Mordis, according to the wiki). He was the only one who seemed like he was having fun. Either way, I don't think I saw anything past the 3rd episode. Certainly never finished the show.
Anson Mount is a good actor, so I was happy to see him show back up again in Multiverse of Madness.
Yet despite all of that, the comics often have the exact same issue. All this crazy stuff is happening, but only to the one character UNLESS it is a big cross-over event. Of course, modern movie watchers have a lot less tolerance for it than comic readers have had historically (or it gets glossed over because so much now-a-days is a big cross-over event!)
However, this is just a quibble of an excellent analysis of the pacing, globe trotting, and tension in Eternals.
It also took me a bit out of the story when the big reveal is that they are all basically mass-produced machines.
Deadline reports the studio is developing a new potential series codenamed Vision Quest, which will star Paul Bettany returning to the role of Vision. The show will reportedly follow Vision as he attempts to “regain his memory and humanity.” This would focus on the White Vision character who ended the first season of WandaVision on the loose in the world after regaining enough of his memories following a face-off with Wanda’s version of Vision (yeah, it’s a bit confusing).
I haven't watched She-Hulk but the ending sounds like a brilliant attempt at meta-commentary that was put at the end of the wrong show.
Like, if you want to tear down and poke fun at the conventions of a genre, you kind of have to make a movie in that genre. You know. Like how Deadpool poked fun at superhero movies by being a superhero movie.
Somehow a slice-of-lifey courtroom drama series feels like the wrong context show for an attempt at pointing out how formulaic the MCU has become. You know. Because it seems like they weren't even using the formula or even attempting to subvert it for most of the run. THey just made a show in a different genre and then tried to end it with a 'take that' at an entirely different genre that had nothing to do with the show the take that was actually in. Like how when South Park poked fun at Simpsons and Family Guy it worked because South Park is the same kind of show as Simpsons and Family Guy.
LordofHats wrote: I haven't watched She-Hulk but the ending sounds like a brilliant attempt at meta-commentary that was put at the end of the wrong show.
Like, if you want to tear down and poke fun at the conventions of a genre, you kind of have to make a movie in that genre. You know. Like how Deadpool poked fun at superhero movies by being a superhero movie.
Somehow a slice-of-lifey courtroom drama series feels like the wrong context show for an attempt at pointing out how formulaic the MCU has become. You know. Because it seems like they weren't even using the formula or even attempting to subvert it for most of the run. THey just made a show in a different genre and then tried to end it with a 'take that' at an entirely different genre that had nothing to do with the show the take that was actually in. Like how when South Park poked fun at Simpsons and Family Guy it worked because South Park is the same kind of show as Simpsons and Family Guy.
The slice of life courtroom drama stuff gets a back seat for the most part. Which is kind of the point. Jennifer insists the show is a slice of life court drama show. But She-Hulk stuff keeps dragging her back into a MCU plot. And that culminates in the end when it becomes so outrageously MCU that she puts the breaks on the whole thing and says "None of this even makes sense." Which is the story for her character. She wants her old life. But she can't have it anymore. It's not really GONE. But it now also includes this other She-Hulk aspect and she needs to come to terms with it.
Nailed it again. Especially the part of being on the list of people seen as internet manbabies for not liking the show lol, nothing like handwaving legitimate problems with the series by claiming it as invalid due to whatever "ism" people want to use nowadays.
Lance845 wrote: The slice of life courtroom drama stuff gets a back seat for the most part. Which is kind of the point. Jennifer insists the show is a slice of life court drama show.
And the people who made the show insisted it was a legal comedy.
LordofHats wrote: I haven't watched She-Hulk but the ending sounds like a brilliant attempt at meta-commentary that was put at the end of the wrong show.
Like, if you want to tear down and poke fun at the conventions of a genre, you kind of have to make a movie in that genre. You know. Like how Deadpool poked fun at superhero movies by being a superhero movie.
Somehow a slice-of-lifey courtroom drama series feels like the wrong context show for an attempt at pointing out how formulaic the MCU has become. You know. Because it seems like they weren't even using the formula or even attempting to subvert it for most of the run. THey just made a show in a different genre and then tried to end it with a 'take that' at an entirely different genre that had nothing to do with the show the take that was actually in. Like how when South Park poked fun at Simpsons and Family Guy it worked because South Park is the same kind of show as Simpsons and Family Guy.
The bigger problem is that they try and be meta about how the ending makes no sense, but then proceeds to fast-forward it and auto-resolve the conflict and thereby just proves the critics right as Jenn ultimately can't do or change it to be any better despite her direct intervention. Just saying that you've had rushed or predictable endings in previous shows doesn't absolve your show of that if you don't actually do a proper ending. Being self-aware about this kind of writing is even worse than just playing it straight in this instance because you're actively acknowledging that you know there's too many plot threads to resolve in the time that's left and that instead they just give up and pull a GoT S8, where they just kill the Night King anticlimatically so the plot can move forward to King's Landing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean Daredevil literally falls out of the sky like he just loaded into the level during the final part.
Oof, don't even mention Daredevil, I was watching old clips of the Netflix series and it's sad to see how badly the script treats him as not much else besides Jenn's new boytoy. Especially since they've established that this version of Matt Murdock is completely different from the one we've seen from the Netflix series (it was a hail mary that some of that would have carried over, but still sad to hear). He's no longer the man without fear, just the man who can hear (Jenn's heartbeats)
Skarr's introduction is incredibly hamfisted and unnecessary too, not to mention I don't know why they didn't go for the long hair look he has in the comics? He looks like he came out of washing the dishes in a restaurant.
Skarr's introduction is incredibly hamfisted and unnecessary too, not to mention I don't know why they didn't go for the long hair look he has in the comics? He looks like he came out of washing the dishes in a restaurant.
He looks like his dad tried to make him look presentable for grown up stuff, which is kind of the point.
Skarr's introduction is incredibly hamfisted and unnecessary too, not to mention I don't know why they didn't go for the long hair look he has in the comics? He looks like he came out of washing the dishes in a restaurant.
I laughed so hard when he was introduced.
Because I have a friend who'd spent the entirety of She-Hulks release complaining ever more vehemently that nothing was going on, that it wasn't moving the overall MCU plot forward, etc etc etc.
Well, I'd say introducing Hulks son definitely moves the plot forward somehow....
I pointed this out to him.
He ranted more.
I laughed harder.
He also fails to appreciate all the little background details that give a glimpse into the overall MCU world this show gives.
It's been acknowledged as a thing that happened but not been addressed directly. Not that I can think of any way that people would be addressing it directly. The news would freak out (which they did in the background) and then everyone would be like... wtf... and then scientists would go out there and perform tests and be like... "It's made of rock. It's just a big rock man."...
What would be more concerning would have been the even bigger red rock man that instantly showed up leering over the planet. Yelling at some people nobody knows about, and then disappearing. Again, I don't know what anyone would actually DO about it. But it would be on peoples radar as a thing that now can happen I guess.
One of two background Easter eggs in She Hulk. One referencing the giant stone person sticking out of the ocean, and another mentioning a dude with metal claws getting into a bar fight.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Has the MCU addressed the giant person sticking out the ocean yet?
What there's a giant guy sticking out of the ocean? There's also a couple dozen crashed star ships in NY Harbor, a crazy half spider dude swinging through Queens, Inhumans on the moon (remember them? me neither), and SHIELD either is or is not disbanded depending on the week. And half the world population disappeared and then reappeared 5 years later.
Marvel Television was an American television production company responsible for live-action and animated (through Marvel Animation) television shows and direct-to-DVD series based on characters from Marvel Comics. The division was based at affiliate ABC Studios' location. Marvel Television also collaborated with 20th Century Fox in producing shows based on the X-Men franchise such as Legion and The Gifted. The division was transferred to Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment in October 2019, and was folded into the former two months later. Marvel Television is currently used as a label.
Marvel Television was an American television production company responsible for live-action and animated (through Marvel Animation) television shows and direct-to-DVD series based on characters from Marvel Comics. The division was based at affiliate ABC Studios' location. Marvel Television also collaborated with 20th Century Fox in producing shows based on the X-Men franchise such as Legion and The Gifted. The division was transferred to Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment in October 2019, and was folded into the former two months later. Marvel Television is currently used as a label.
Yeah 2019. Which coincided with everything it was producing getting shut down.
Agents of Shield. Inhumans. The netflix shows. Etc, etc...
Marvel Studios used to answer to the people who ran Marvel Television. Now it's the other way around. And it's why we have Disney + series and specials.
Marvel Television was an American television production company responsible for live-action and animated (through Marvel Animation) television shows and direct-to-DVD series based on characters from Marvel Comics. The division was based at affiliate ABC Studios' location. Marvel Television also collaborated with 20th Century Fox in producing shows based on the X-Men franchise such as Legion and The Gifted. The division was transferred to Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment in October 2019, and was folded into the former two months later. Marvel Television is currently used as a label.
And? So? But? Therefore?
The point, Ghaz, and I'd've thought this obvious, is that all the stuff that Marvel Television made (Agents of SHIELD, Inhumans, etc.) isn't part of the MCU, and now they're not really a thing.
Marvel Television was an American television production company responsible for live-action and animated (through Marvel Animation) television shows and direct-to-DVD series based on characters from Marvel Comics. The division was based at affiliate ABC Studios' location. Marvel Television also collaborated with 20th Century Fox in producing shows based on the X-Men franchise such as Legion and The Gifted. The division was transferred to Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment in October 2019, and was folded into the former two months later. Marvel Television is currently used as a label.
And? So? But? Therefore?
The point, Ghaz, and I'd've thought this obvious, is that all the stuff that Marvel Television made (Agents of SHIELD, Inhumans, etc.) isn't part of the MCU, and now they're not really a thing.
Nope. You just said Marvel Television =/= Marvel Studios which is not true. Plus, we need to see how the new Daredevil series deals with the Netflix series (even though it's being touted as a "whole new thing" it could still bring the Netflix series into the MCU main continuity).
Marvel Television was an American television production company responsible for live-action and animated (through Marvel Animation) television shows and direct-to-DVD series based on characters from Marvel Comics. The division was based at affiliate ABC Studios' location. Marvel Television also collaborated with 20th Century Fox in producing shows based on the X-Men franchise such as Legion and The Gifted. The division was transferred to Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment in October 2019, and was folded into the former two months later. Marvel Television is currently used as a label.
And? So? But? Therefore?
The point, Ghaz, and I'd've thought this obvious, is that all the stuff that Marvel Television made (Agents of SHIELD, Inhumans, etc.) isn't part of the MCU, and now they're not really a thing.
Nope. You just said Marvel Television =/= Marvel Studios which is not true. Plus, we need to see how the new Daredevil series deals with the Netflix series (even though it's being touted as a "whole new thing" it could still bring the Netflix series into the MCU main continuity).
You would have to be out of your mind to think that it's going to get canonized.
Not only is the continuity of the MCU difficult enough to maintain when it's all under their control. It would frankly be impossible to maintain if you started introducing stuff that they had no say in. Also, do you really think Marvel Studios is going to say that The Hand is a league of ninjas that inject kid blood into people for reasons while digging a big hole in NYC so they can dig up dragon bones to make live forever juice?
Never mind the plot. Do you really think they want a not-terribly-good actor who couldn’t be arsed to learn martial arts for a martial arts role as Iron Fist?
Ghaz wrote: Nope. You just said Marvel Television =/= Marvel Studios which is not true.
Context is king. My comment was in reference to treating Inhumans as part of the MCU, which they are not. My point stands.
Ghaz wrote: Plus, we need to see how the new Daredevil series deals with the Netflix series (even though it's being touted as a "whole new thing" it could still bring the Netflix series into the MCU main continuity).
It won't. Marvel Television projects were borne of a situation out of Feige's control, a Perlmutter division that got the scraps and changed the comics to boost their own profile.
When Civil War broke the camel's back, Marvel Studios jettisoned all the television stuff so they could focus on the MCU. Only later when D+ became a thing was Marvel Television was gutted and their projects stopped (the last ones being MODOK and something else that I can't recall). Now it's just a label, as the link you posted said. It's no longer the Jeph Loeb-run disaster that it turned into.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Do you really think they want a not-terribly-good actor who couldn’t be arsed to learn martial arts for a martial arts role as Iron Fist?
Don't tell porkie pies. Scott Buck - also the guy behind Inhumans - is the man responsible for Iron Fist's failings.
Whereas other productions have months to develop and train for martial arts scenes, the Iron Fist production often had him learning fight scenes a few minutes before they were set to film. Buck ruined that, just as he ruined Inhumans. It's all on that guy's head.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Only later when D+ became a thing was Marvel Television was gutted and their projects stopped (the last ones being MODOK and something else that I can't recall).
Lot of blah, blah for the first 30 seconds, but the rest of the trailer looks shockingly good. With a random weird cameo.
I think they learned something from keeping Thanos in the closet for 20+ movies. They might be kicking off hard on this arc.
And it might not even end in a mirror-match battle, though obviously its lots and lots and lots of CGI.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Don't tell porkie pies. Scott Buck - also the guy behind Inhumans - is the man responsible for Iron Fist's failings.
Whereas other productions have months to develop and train for martial arts scenes, the Iron Fist production often had him learning fight scenes a few minutes before they were set to film. Buck ruined that, just as he ruined Inhumans. It's all on that guy's head.
That man's ability to fail upward is impressive. He also ruined Dexter, fwiw.
I've heard it mentioned that that's kind of his role. He gets things done on time and under budget. He's kind of the go to when a studio wants to fulfill an obligation but doesn't really want to pay for it.
Better than a 7/10, some way from a 9/10. But not quite, or just barely, an 8/10.
The plot is interesting and the pace mostly solid. Much of the acting is excellent (not you, Mr Freeman. You’re just looking exasperated. Again. That is not in fact a talent).
But the action scenes kind of let it down. They’re not universally bad like, but there are distinct moments and bits where nothing really works. Mass paggas where you can’t tell who’s who or whether a main character just got chinned. One on one fights where someone seems to just stand there, get hit, then react a fraction of a second too late to look real.
I want to be clear it is not a Bad Film. It’s not even disappointing. It’s just….not quite the full shilling in certain areas. Which is a shame, particularly as the worst offending happens in the final few scenes, leaving a poor impression which masks some excellent movie in the early and mid scenes.
Bit of spit and polish on the fight scenes and I think it’d be a strong 8, edging into 9/10.
It has the disappearing masks to deliver a line then reappear again thing... Which is particularly noticable in the last fight. The Midnight Angels suits look... Less good but their inclusion is nice.
The acting is the highlights here with a story about loss and grief and anger. Happy to see everyone come back for more in the future.
I want to be clear it is not a Bad Film. It’s not even disappointing. It’s just….not quite the full shilling in certain areas. Which is a shame, particularly as the worst offending happens in the final few scenes, leaving a poor impression which masks some excellent movie in the early and mid scenes.
.
Strong start/middle and weak finish basically is the Marvel formula at this point.
Even the standouts with strong depth of character fizzle out in the CGI aftermath.
It's a 7/10 for me. The first one is definitely better. The actress who plays Shuri is just not a leading lady. Namor stole every scene he was in and totally overshadowed her every time they were onscreen together. Not a terrible film, but not great either. Pretty much sums up phase 4 to be honest.
I thought they did a really great job introducing ironheart. The revelation that this genius wasn't working for anyone, just turning in school projects, was a great way to introduce her and her skill level.
O look forward to her show. Especially because it want be ironman suit versus ironman suit. Will love her fighting a magic man.
I will point out, as I feel I have before, that this is the MCU TV thread, and therefore people could quite innocently click on the thread and justifiably not expect to be hit in the face with any Wakanda Forever talk at all, let alone spoilers of any sort.
Lance845 wrote: It has the disappearing masks to deliver a line then reappear again thing... Which is particularly noticable in the last fight.
As bad as it is when they do that, to me it was nowhere near as prominent as in the Panther/Killmonger fight, where every time they stopped to deliver a line of dialogue their masks would vanish. Here it was only really bad when Okoye delivered her final line when fighting Attuma.
I want to be clear it is not a Bad Film. It’s not even disappointing. It’s just….not quite the full shilling in certain areas. Which is a shame, particularly as the worst offending happens in the final few scenes, leaving a poor impression which masks some excellent movie in the early and mid scenes.
.
Strong start/middle and weak finish basically is the Marvel formula at this point.
Even the standouts with strong depth of character fizzle out in the CGI aftermath.
It’s really not that bad. Also probably worth mentioning there was a lot of people moving about in the screening (pretty sure a few people sat behind me got kicked out) which brought me out the moment somewhat.
I’ll happily watch it again, don’t get me wrong. It’s just not Instant Classic.
Spoiler:
And as Creeping_deth87 said, Letitia Wright whilst a decent enough actress, doesn’t quite carry it off as Leading Lady. She has solid moments, but other bits just don’t land right. But, I feel things well outside anyones control are of course in play. Chadwick Boseman was always going to be a tough act to follow, as the man bled sheer charisma, and like Patrick Stewart gave others a solid foundation to bounce off. I think Lupita N’yonog would’ve been a better choice to assume the mantle, but in terms of narrative it does work overall.
Add in Angela Bassett being absolutely wonderful, and it was just the wrong time for Letitia Wright, as she had to match Namor, Ramonda and Nakia in terms of acting skill and interesting character.
Please don’t get me wrong. This film is only mildly disappointing, and only in certain scenes. A going back over some of the fight scenes would help it immensely and perhaps we might see that in future, who knows.
I certainly don’t regret the £7.50 cinema ticket, nor the time spent Bum In Seat. It’s just frustrating because it comes so bloody close to being Utterly Amazing.
I want to be clear it is not a Bad Film. It’s not even disappointing. It’s just….not quite the full shilling in certain areas. Which is a shame, particularly as the worst offending happens in the final few scenes, leaving a poor impression which masks some excellent movie in the early and mid scenes.
.
Strong start/middle and weak finish basically is the Marvel formula at this point.
Even the standouts with strong depth of character fizzle out in the CGI aftermath.
It’s really not that bad. Also probably worth mentioning there was a lot of people moving about in the screening (pretty sure a few people sat behind me got kicked out) which brought me out the moment somewhat.
I’ll happily watch it again, don’t get me wrong. It’s just not Instant Classic.
Spoiler:
And as H.B.M.C. said, Letitia Wright whilst a decent enough actress, doesn’t quite carry it off as Leading Lady. She has solid moments, but other bits just don’t land right. But, I feel things well outside anyones control are of course in play. Chadwick Boseman was always going to be a tough act to follow, as the man bled sheer charisma, and like Patrick Stewart gave others a solid foundation to bounce off. I think Lupita N’yonog would’ve been a better choice to assume the mantle, but in terms of narrative it does work overall.
Add in Angela Bassett being absolutely wonderful, and it was just the wrong time for Letitia Wright, as she had to match Namor, Ramonda and Nakia in terms of acting skill and interesting character.
Please don’t get me wrong. This film is only mildly disappointing, and only in certain scenes. A going back over some of the fight scenes would help it immensely and perhaps we might see that in future, who knows.
I certainly don’t regret the £7.50 cinema ticket, nor the time spent Bum In Seat. It’s just frustrating because it comes so bloody close to being Utterly Amazing.
That was actually me that said that, not HBMC. I pretty much agree with everything else. 'Mildly disappointing' sums up my feelings quite well.
Why does film stuff, keep ending up in the TV thread? <Stares intently at MDG>
Mods- please just change the title of this thread to Marvel MCU Stuff....... please. /S
I put my comments in the Wakanda Forever Thread, but for the sake of being seen, here they are:
I watched Wakanda Forever....
The story and acting are great, and then the Super-heroics really let it all down. The final "battle" is especially boring and lame.
They treat the death of Boseman really, really, like really well. His death is woven into the fabric and DNA of this movie, and acts as the inciting incident and baseline emotional motif of the entire film. It also forms the character arcs of several characters. Really strong stuff there.
Unlike most MCU films, I can not easily point to the genre they are trying to ape. This feels like a genuinely "unique" movie experience. They are not doing a genre with a super thrown into it. This is a film that was born naturally from the story and character developments of the first film. That is pretty strong vision from Coogler.
Then, we get to all the tie-in to the rest of the MCU, and I feel like Marvel is starting to drag their toes into DCEU territory. Too much tie-in that is cluttering up an otherwise amazing film. I am looking at you "Armor Wars" stuff!
Like I said, the biggest let down is the actual super-heroics of the film. They are kind of flat, despite a great build up of emotional stakes. The final battle between Wakandans and Tlaxocans is especially weak, even if the battle between Black Panther and Namor is pretty strong because the emotional stakes are high.
Finally, always good to see M'baku and he is the "heart" of the movie in some ways.
I do like how M’Baku is pretty straight forward. Not necessarily the voice of reason every time, but an honest, open opinion is given without any fancy word salad. Playful, but in a curiously respectful way.
And sweet Googly Moogly Winston Duke has excellent screen presence.
I feel pretty confident saying that the over all theme, the connective theme, of phase 4 is loss and grief. From Spiderman - way too many Spidermans through the holiday special that is coming up, characters are dealing with loss and grief in one way or another. Even She-Hulk goes through the 5 phases of grief over the course of her show as her old life is lost and the new one begins. .
Denial and anger in the first episode. Bargaining when she trying to be She-Hulk but only to be a lawyer, depression up until the Yert, and acceptance at the end when she works with Daredevil and has her final scene on the steps of the court house.
Moonknight is grief over his lost brother and the DID is the consequence of it. Hawkeye is about Mayas lost Uncle, and Clint/Yelenas shared grief of Natasha. Loki and Sylvie's grief of the lives stolen from them. The loss of Cap, the loss of Battlestar, the loss of their new homes and the world they built after the snap. Wanda Vision... yup. Eternals, yup. Shang Chi, yup. Black Widow, yup.
Lance845 wrote: I feel pretty confident saying that the over all theme, the connective theme, of phase 4 is loss and grief. From Spiderman - way too many Spidermans through the holiday special that is coming up, characters are dealing with loss and grief in one way or another. Even She-Hulk goes through the 5 phases of grief over the course of her show as her old life is lost and the new one begins. .
Denial and anger in the first episode. Bargaining when she trying to be She-Hulk but only to be a lawyer, depression up until the Yert, and acceptance at the end when she works with Daredevil and has her final scene on the steps of the court house.
Moonknight is grief over his lost brother and the DID is the consequence of it. Hawkeye is about Mayas lost Uncle, and Clint/Yelenas shared grief of Natasha. Loki and Sylvie's grief of the lives stolen from them. The loss of Cap, the loss of Battlestar, the loss of their new homes and the world they built after the snap. Wanda Vision... yup. Eternals, yup. Shang Chi, yup. Black Widow, yup.
Also Survivors Guilt and Consequences. Indeed just the Price of Victory.
FalconSoldier remains one of my favourites because it addressed Snap and Post-Snap reality.
Amazon and Sony are swinging into the Spider-Verse together with several television projects inspired by the world of Marvel's friendly neighborhood wall-crawler. Sony owns the screen rights to this particular corner of the Marvel Universe, which encompasses over 900 characters ranging from the iconic to the obscure.
I never realized that Sony had the rights to quite that many characters
Amazon and Sony are swinging into the Spider-Verse together with several television projects inspired by the world of Marvel's friendly neighborhood wall-crawler. Sony owns the screen rights to this particular corner of the Marvel Universe, which encompasses over 900 characters ranging from the iconic to the obscure.
I never realized that Sony had the rights to quite that many characters
Well... the Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas Special was quite charming. It mostly focuses on Mantis and Drax, and really Mantis has more lines in this than every single appearance she's made in the MCU so far combined. She's tons of fun.
Kevin Bacon's a good sport (Kyra Sedgwick moreso), and even gets to sing at the end. Has the standard James Gunn musical taste, just Christmas themed, and the aliens who don't understand Christmas at the start and their song is fething hilarious. Nebular remains perpetually pissed off at everything, and gets the best line of the night (plus "You can't out run me, Bacon!" ). Even Kraglin gets quite a bit to do, which I liked.
As you could probably tell from the trailers, Groot has grown up quite a bit (deep voice is back) and he doesn't like being a Christmas tree, and Cosmo has both telekinetic powers and a Russian accent, which I suppose makes sense.
Spoiler:
And somehow Nebula [ispoiler]got Bucky's arm, which is impressive, and gave it to Rocket as a gift. He said he'd get it!
And it appears that, from what's happened in the MCU recently, the Guardians (or the Ravagers) purchased Nowhere, from the Collector, which means Thanos didn't kill him! I wonder/hope that factors into Guardians 3 in some way.
There is a post-credit, it is not Gamora related (she does not appear in this), and it's more just for fun than anything else.
Also, hey, a Go-Bot reference. Who'da saw that coming?
ccs wrote: I'd love to see what's on that 900+ list.
You can. During the Sony leaks, the entire contract for Spider-Man and what Sony has the rights to leaked. Everything is on there.
First Christmas special I can recall where characters get drunk in a gay bar. Lots of heart in this and the end with Quill and Mantis got me in the feels.
Complicated by the looks of it....Hasbro owns the written word and Bandai the likenesses. So I guess a film company could license from Hasbro if they sufficiently reimaged them though maybe Michael Bay already has the rights as they're part of the Transformers Multiverse.
Was harmless enough, and Drax in a CJ (Christmas Jumper) was awesome sauce, although not sure if I've already lost the Fairy Tale dodging game so early.
Turnip Jedi wrote: Was harmless enough, and Drax in a CJ (Christmas Jumper) was awesome sauce, although not sure if I've already lost the Fairy Tale dodging game so early.
Yeah it didn't give me cancer, but I wasn't really rapt with attention or busting a gut laughing.
And yeah I am now of the age where calling a story that is repeatedly said to be about Christmas a 'Holiday' special annoying.
I've celebrated Eid, Dilwale, Hanukkah, Obon and Chinese New Year and never felt any obligation to call them something else. So please call Christmas stuff Christmas.
Yeah, yeah old man yells at cloud, turn off Fox news, there's no war on Christmas, blah, blah, blah...
but but the totally imaginary minority I know nothing about might take offense at someone else celebrating something they don't give two hoots about, just a shame its too cold to unleash the Bitey Grinchy Know Best homing badgers
But what if these imaginary people tune hoping for Kwanzaa or Hanukkah or Dilwali content and come away outraged that a 'holiday' special was in fact a mere Christmas special?!
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I've celebrated Eid, Dilwale, Hanukkah, Obon and Chinese New Year and never felt any obligation to call them something else. So please call Christmas stuff Christmas.
Careful now, Kid. You don't want to offend anyone by using the "C" word during this time of year.
Thanks to a new tweet from Chloe Bennet, she has heavily implied that Agents of SHIELD's Quake is returning to the MCU after replying to a tweet disparaging her acting and doubting that Marvel would bring her back.
Bennet's tweet does stop short of outright confirming that she is set to play Quake again in the MCU, but the tease is a notable shift from previous comments she's made. Since Marvel Studios has not confirmed any upcoming projects include Quake, it is unclear when and where Chloe Bennet could reprise her Agents of SHIELD character and have a chance to prove her doubters wrong.
Wishful thinking that it would be the same character. Quake in the comics is a mutant. They have the rights to mutants again. And AoS and the marvel TV stuff presents very real continuity issues.
Unless this is just a multiverse thing where the AoS crew come riding in on a flying red convertible to fight Kang.
My understanding is that it just started filming. But I think people are only speculating that because Quake was part of Nick Fury's super secret not shield during the comics secret invasion.
Lance845 wrote: Ah yeah, nvm. I got my start dates all mixed up. Something else just started filming. Agatha?
Going off of this Wikipedia article it does look like Agatha: Coven of Chaos is currently filming while everything else in Phase Five that is live action is either in pre-production or post-production.
