I think Wanda can bounce back from this. In fact, it would be realy interesting to see if she is the key to bouncing back from Secret Wars.
She basically controls reality right? Well, when the Council of Kangs/Kang Dynasty tears apart universe after universe and the chunks remaining are pieced together into some kind of battle world for Secret Wars. Well.. the end of that has to be someone, somehow putting it all back.
Wanda is kind of one of the only people who could actually do such a thing.
In the comics disassembled/House of M and the subsequent Mutant Extinction event was her big cross to bear. She recently made up for all of it by creating a space across time where all mutant souls rest so that even mutants who died before cerebro recorded them can be bought back with the resurrection protocols. She went from the cursed pretender to the revered redeemer.
Putting the universe back together post secret wars could be her redeemer arc.
I expect Wanda to fulfill the roll of Molecule Man in Secret Wars and ultimately fulfill the prophecy of the Scarlet Witch by both initially ruling over and ultimately destroying Battleworld.
An interesting little tid bit in MoM, the mural of her in wundagore does not have both her kids on each side of her. It has mirrors of Billy/Wiccan who is (in the comics) the Demiurge and a very powerful "could be destined to destroy all of reality" character. I got the impression that they were planting a seed that Wandas prophecy was less about her and more about Billy.
Krull style.
"A girl of ancient name shall chose a king. They shall rule the world, and their child will rule the galaxy!"
We watch a story about how the girl of ancient name and the dude she picks are all so important. But the REALLY big gak comes from their kid.
Wanda's important. But mostly shes important because she births the Demiurge.
Of course she was. She's one of the good guys in every movie she's been in (not at the start of Age of Ultron, but certainly by the end), and she's definitely the antagonist of MoM. I actually agree with the rest of your post, just not this opening sentence. Discussing all the things that make Wanda interesting doesn't change the fact that they very much wrote her into heroine turned villain in her last appearance.
I’m not sure she ever was, at her core, a Hero, except when she was with Vision.
Wanda is almost a Michael Jackson type affair in terms of tragedy. My reasoning here is that neither of them really had a childhood. But, through wealth or super powers, neither of them really had to learn the lessons that make us adults. Add in both were enabled by those they should’ve been able to trust? Not actually a villain. A threat? Absolutely. But so unique in their human experience it’s hard to say any of it was malicious.
Wanda is one of my fav things in the MCU. Hell, my favourite scene in Endgame is where she shows up at the end to wreck Thanos and he only escapes because he cheats. But Marvel has a huge problem with letting dead people stay dead, and Wanda needs to stay dead.
Easy E wrote:Yeah, but I think the real question is, how does this fit with Sony's plans and where do we slot in more Morbius! When is it Morbin' time? /S
Easy E wrote:Yeah, but I think the real question is, how does this fit with Sony's plans and where do we slot in more Morbius! When is it Morbin' time? /S
Lance845 wrote:Trick question, its never not Morbin time.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Now I want someone to shop the Phase 6 picture so that all the blanks are just more sequels to Morbius.
Grimskul wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Now I want someone to shop the Phase 6 picture so that all the blanks are just more sequels to Morbius.
Now that's a Phase I can get behind!
Morbiverse of Morbin, here we come!
H.B.M.C. wrote:No! Wait! Phase 6 is too early for all that.
Phases 7, 8 and 9 will collectively be known as The Morbius Saga, will culminate in another Avengers double-header:
So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
AduroT wrote: So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
My theory is that that is the only story we've seen so-far featuring the Earth of that particular bit of the multi-verse.
Not every story has to be set in the 616....
Or that'll be the explanation Disney eventually gives as to why they're just not referencing a movie that met with general indifference.
AduroT wrote: So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
Well, so far the only things that take place after Eternals are (in order), MoM, Hawkeye, Moonknight, Ms Marvel. (This is according to D+ Time Line list).
AduroT wrote: So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
My theory is that that is the only story we've seen so-far featuring the Earth of that particular bit of the multi-verse.
Not every story has to be set in the 616....
Or that'll be the explanation Disney eventually gives as to why they're just not referencing a movie that met with general indifference.
Except it explicitly is. The Eternals sit around talk about 'current events' to drive home the point that they've been present on the world the whole time.
I suspect it will just be ignored with no explanation, though it may get mentioned among general ocean shenanigans in Wakanda Forever.
Trouble is, they've established mining out a Celestial as a huge deal with Knowhere in GotG. So... yeah.
If they want to do something with it, it could end up being the source of some magic amor/tech/mutation, or an objective in some sort of multiversal war or whatever...
Well, they minded out the "biological" decapitated head of a celestial for Knowwhere. This is something else entirely. This is a celestial shaped chunk of marble or whatever.
AduroT wrote: So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
My theory is that that is the only story we've seen so-far featuring the Earth of that particular bit of the multi-verse.
Not every story has to be set in the 616....
Or that'll be the explanation Disney eventually gives as to why they're just not referencing a movie that met with general indifference.
Except it explicitly is. The Eternals sit around talk about 'current events' to drive home the point that they've been present on the world the whole time.
And....? Is there any reason that their current events couldn't be a mirror of what's been going on in the 616 we've all been watching to date? With the added wrinkle that the Eternals have just been chilling in the background all this time.
AduroT wrote: So there’s been like three movies and a couple series since Eternals came out… Why has there been no mention of the giant dude sticking out of the planet yet?
My theory is that that is the only story we've seen so-far featuring the Earth of that particular bit of the multi-verse.
Not every story has to be set in the 616....
Or that'll be the explanation Disney eventually gives as to why they're just not referencing a movie that met with general indifference.
Except it explicitly is. The Eternals sit around talk about 'current events' to drive home the point that they've been present on the world the whole time.
And....? Is there any reason that their current events couldn't be a mirror of what's been going on in the 616 we've all been watching to date? With the added wrinkle that the Eternals have just been chilling in the background all this time.
This is why I absolutely hate multiverse and time travel crap. Why would you want even fewer stakes than what's currently on the table?
A 'it didn't happen here' declaration would be pointless, piss people off and undermine any trust that anything they watch in the future matters in any way to any narrative that can be found in between the CGI.
You could make that argument for any movie or show, at this point. Who says Hawkeye now has an apprentice in the main universe? Who says Ms Marvel is running around? Who says Thor learned something today in Thor Four? Why would you want any of those questions? What possible benefit do they have?
The entirely more modern Avengers:(insert subtitle here) shows are worth a watch afterwards, very much evocative of those old X Men and Spidey shows, but didn't get the exposure in the UK because they're from the era of dedicated kids TV channels and so were buried deep in the bottom of the program guide.
bbb wrote: It was criminal that they canceled that show for the other Avengers show. The episodes on D+ didn't start in the right order if I remember correctly.
Lance845 wrote: Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes is a great show that covers a lot of really great storylines and has the best theme song.
Seriously. It covered so many different story arcs incredibly well. We got Ultron becoming an Avengers level threat with proper build up, Ant Man turning into yellow Jacket, Dr. Doom being portrayed as the proper badass he is, an amazing set up for the Skrull Invasion and a proper aftermath for what happens after Captain America is seen as a worldwide traitor. Hell, we even see the "replacement" Avengers set up for one of the episodes with Spider Man, Wolverine, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage.
It's basically the closest that Marvel has ever gotten to being on par with the greats of the DCAU of Justice League/JLU or BTAS/Batman Beyond. Only thing else that is Marvel that comes close is the Spectacular Spiderman (another axed show that was replaced with something that was far below what standard it set, man I REALLY hated The Ultimate Spiderman series after they squandered what little potential it had).
Lance845 wrote: Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes is a great show that covers a lot of really great storylines and has the best theme song.
The second half of Season 2, when "Man of Action" appears in the credits sucks. Up until that point, one of the greatest animated super-hero shows I have seen, and I have seen a lot of them.
Just announced that She Hulk episodes are going to premier on a Thursday instead of the traditional Wednesday for some reason, with the first one coming on Aug 18th.
Probably a good change. If they keep pushing out content like they have we're going to have more times where a Star Wars and Marvel show overlaps. Might as well give them their own days.
Since this seems to be the general MCU thread, it looks like Patton Oswalt let something slip while making an appearance on The Today Show. From CBR.com...
Finally got around to finishing Ms. Marvel. I liked Kamala's family and friends way more than Kamala. The story was not well developed. The directing and visual style was fun.
Easy E wrote: I just finished Hawkeye and.... I can see why they did not want to make this into a movie as it would have needed a lot more..... something.
Easy E wrote: I just finished Hawkeye and.... I can see why they did not want to make this into a movie as it would have needed a lot more..... something.
It was passable. Not bad, and some good ideas and themes, but not great either. Yelena kind of steals the show.
I think it would've been much better as a movie. From a meta perspective, its a pretty simple A->B (clean up old sins and pass the torch), but the extra runtime just gave them multiple chances to lose the threads and faff about with 'twists' and 'reveals' and dumb sideplots that don't go anywhere or do anything.
In general, they seem really unsure about what to do with this format, and how to utilize it. Most of the time they end up with a standard 'like fights like' end battle anyway and the whole thing feels like a hollow, rushed prequel to what they really wanted to do in season 2 (or a movie).
I'm actually vaguely hoping she-hulk goes for a more episodic approach, just to try something different. And I generally dislike episodic television.
But I definitely don't want origin story->angst->punchout with the Abomination.
I dunno. Hawkeye really fits into “we beat Thanos, but that’s just the start”.
The whole thing was pointing out that in a post-snap world, Clint had nothing left to lose, and so went crazy ape bonkers with drills and violence, going full on Punisher.
Then….un-snapping. Not only is the world snapped out of it, but so was Clint. The reason Kate gets in so deep, so fast, isn’t because she’s a vigilante, but because everyone now thinks she is Ronin, the crazy ape bonkers with drills and violence vigilante. And so everyone is gunning for her.
Sure Kate is pretty handy in a fight. But, she lacks Clint’s espionage skills to, y’know….help avoid anyone coming after her.
Whether or not that could’ve been done as a movie isn’t all that important, but it’s still a tale that needed telling.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I dunno. Hawkeye really fits into “we beat Thanos, but that’s just the start”.
The whole thing was pointing out that in a post-snap world, Clint had nothing left to lose, and so went crazy ape bonkers with drills and violence, going full on Punisher.
Then….un-snapping. Not only is the world snapped out of it, but so was Clint. The reason Kate gets in so deep, so fast, isn’t because she’s a vigilante, but because everyone now thinks she is Ronin, the crazy ape bonkers with drills and violence vigilante. And so everyone is gunning for her.
Sure Kate is pretty handy in a fight. But, she lacks Clint’s espionage skills to, y’know….help avoid anyone coming after her.
Whether or not that could’ve been done as a movie isn’t all that important, but it’s still a tale that needed telling.
I don't agree. The 'protege you didn't know you had (because you didn't have one) needs training' isn't really a story that needs to be told.
Superhero proteges get training, one way or the other. You don't need to spend 3+ hours establishing that they need it.
Or that Clint really, really, really, really wants to retire. He can just do that, without the actor looking like he just wants to cash in his rent check and get the hell out.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except because Kate ends up being identified as Ronin, Clint can’t retire. That’s no longer an option until, one way or another, the heat is off Kate.
She shouldn’t suffer for Clint’s sins.
Right... But... eh. That's not a 'consequence of a post-snap world.' Or a defining trait of Kate vs Clint, or their relative espionage skills. Or a story that NEEDED telling. Or something related to the film vs short series format.
That's just... what the producers decided to film. The elevator pitch summary.
So... sure. But also...?
It is a consequence of the post-snap world though.
Clint as Ronin went full on Punished. He very likely cared not one jot if he lived or died - though I don’t think he was suicidal as such.
The set up is largely covered in End Game. His justification is that good people got snapped, whilst bad people lived on. He was about redressing that balance. And he was brutal about it because he’d lost all hope. And with his family gone, the restraint of Fear of Retribution was also gone. It no longer mattered if he was KIA, because there was no-one for the bad guys to seek revenge against. At least….no-one that was a soft target/an advisable target.
Then it’s all undone. Clint helps it to be undone. He saved the world. He saved his family. He saved his own sanity.
But some damn fool kid wears the Costume, and paints a colossal target on herself. Clint isn’t, and has never been, the sort to take advantage of that. Because the very reasons he showed a lack of restraint as Ronin? That doesn’t apply to Kate. If she’s taken down, her identity is revealed and whatever friends and family she has are then in mortal peril.
So it absolutely was a tale worth telling, as it’s Clint’s own redemption.
Because if I’m honest, I often get the impression you’ve not actually watched the stuff.
And believe, it’s not “I think”. Clint’s redemption arc is a story worth telling, hence….they told it.
It’s also a story of the impact The Avengers had. Kate sees Hawkeye in action during the Battle of New York, when he saves her from the Chittaur Chariot. That’s why she asks her Mum for a bow. That’s why the opening titles are a stylised montage of Kate learning fencing, archery and gymnastics. Hawkeye inspired her.
This show charts her learning there’s more to heroics than being a hero. You’re gonna tread on powerful toes. Great Power, Great Responsiblity. Hell even the “it’s meant to be” cringe glimpse of the musical ties into that theme. The public going mental for the results, but glossing over the personal costs.
What the hell is a story that needed telling? I don't know, but it seems like every single movie and show that has ever been produced has been a show that was elevator pitched as an interesting story to tell. Not one that needed to be told.
Kate wasn't learning skills. Kate had a ton of skills. As revealed in episode 1 open credit montage. What Kate needed was experience.
The show we got was Kate meeting her hero and realizing it isn't all fun and games with experience. It was Clint dealing with his grief. Trying to feel like he deserved the life he was given when his best friend killed herself for him, and trying to make sure nobody else had to pay for his past.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Because if I’m honest, I often get the impression you’ve not actually watched the stuff.
Nicely condescending, but irrelevant. In keeping with your reactions whenever someone disagrees with you, however. (though you haven't demanded people stop talking about it, which is refreshing)
And believe, it’s not “I think”. Clint’s redemption arc is a story worth telling, hence….they told it.
No, its definitely 'you think.'
Redemption stories in general suck random goat feces. Clint's in particular? Nonsense. He murder-death-killed a bunch of gang members, who worked for the Big Man himself. They weren't innocents
Now, Clint Barton, Agent of SHIELD (Hydra)? He probably did murder innocents. Strange how that doesn't need redemption (though admittedly that would make for a terrible MCU and repeat DC's worst mistakes)
It’s also a story of the impact The Avengers had. Kate sees Hawkeye in action during the Battle of New York, when he saves her from the Chittaur Chariot. That’s why she asks her Mum for a bow. That’s why the opening titles are a stylised montage of Kate learning fencing, archery and gymnastics. Hawkeye inspired her.
This show charts her learning there’s more to heroics than being a hero. You’re gonna tread on powerful toes. Great Power, Great Responsiblity. Hell even the “it’s meant to be” cringe glimpse of the musical ties into that theme. The public going mental for the results, but glossing over the personal costs.
Yes I have just put it on my Telly.
Yeah, I can tell. You're just back to reciting what's on the screen again, with no analysis., just random Comic Catchphrases
Not to mention him being clearly uncomfortable with the adulation. The dude is even awkward about receiving a complementary meal, as a thank you for his part in saving New York.
Clint and Natasha remain the most interesting Avengers because they’re just….people. Highly skilled, sure. But people all the same. And being a family man, Clint is easy to relate to, even for someone as childphobic as I.
We can also extrapolate other things likely weighing on his mind. He was a member of S.H.I.E.L.D. for years before he became an Avenger. He went from the shadows to the limelight when Loki attacked. He was never trained for Avengers level threats. Nobody was or arguably could’ve been.
If anyone knows just how shockingly underprepared for the consequences Kate would be? It’s Clint.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Voss, I’m sorry but your media literacy is awful.
And no, actually watching something you’re criticising tends to….y’know….help. Otherwise you’re just regurgitating clickbait opinions from others, and are singularly unprepared when folk who have actually watched it point out misconceptions, errors and outright “what are you on abouts” in what you claim.
If you don’t want to watch something? No worries. If you watch something and don’t like it? No biggie. I myself can’t stand many shows (Rick & Morty, The Witcher, Carnival Row, Friends, Big Bang Theory, Family Guy to name but a few) but I have at least tried to watch them. Indeed, it’s the trying to watch them that means I know I don’t like them. And there are equally shows I’ve not seen, because I just don’t think they’re my bag - but I don’t then pretend to have seen them to rag on them on the internet.
Why don’t I enjoy the shows I listed? The ones I’ve actually tried watching?
Rick & Morty. Not half as clever as it thinks it is. Animation is off putting. The first episode seems to be 50% Rick belching and Morty fretting.
The Witcher. It’s the sodding Bard. I know he’s meant to be annoying. But to me he’s just obnoxious and tension shattering.
Carnival Row. I’m very funny and particular about accents. Carla Deleveign can’t do an Irish accent. None of the other Fae seem to have an Irish accent either. So….why bother in the first place? It’s distracting and irritating.
Friends. It’s just…..eurgh. Not a fan of aired laughter, whether filmed live in front of a studio audience or canned. I don’t need anyone to tell me when something is meant to be funny.
Big Bang Theory. Largely see above, plus also relies on excessively lazy tropes, including some which are really quite racist.
Family Guy. No coherent stories. Too much filler. Too much self reference and indeed self reverence.
Wait. Just realised that list is entirely US shows, which makes me seem a culture snob. For my next trick, I’ll poo on U.K. shows.
The Mighty Boosh. Trying to be Reeves & Mortimeresque non-sequitur surrealism. Unfortunately that tosser with the mullet will insist on his “pause for applause” moments. There’s a fine line between surrealism and random gibberish. They’re far, far over that line.
Love Island. I have to bite my tongue on this one at work, as others seem to enjoy it well enough. But it’s just utterly vacuous people we’re repeatedly told are attractive being awful, awful people.
Britains Got Talent. Or indeed, seemingly and evidentially not.
The Jeremy Kyle Show and it’s ilk. In Victorian Times, we had freakshows. Nothing really changed but the venue in the 21st Century.
Eastenders. A long running soap based in abject human misery. When it inevitably ends, whenever that might be, my only hope is that Albert Square is revealed to have been Purgatory all along, it’s inhabitants damned souls unable to move on until they learn some sort of lesson. Or get run over outside The Queen Vic by a very slowly moving car on Christmas Day.
Cara Delevigne hasn't show any noteworthy acting ability in anything I've seen. Maybe Paper Towns had something. I don't know why she was being forced there for a couple of years, but she was just sort of there anytime she was on screen.
Ms. Marvel had more screen presence in the first episode.
@ Doc, totally with you on East Enders, misery pron of the most wretched kind, and as for Love Island, I'm lead to understand there is a whole industry catering to growed up cuddles without the editors trying to forge a narrative from pure idiots, id suspect its "semi scripted" but that would need at least the cast to be able to read above a Meg and Mog level
But back to Marvel, was indifferent to She Hulk, but then as if but magic Matt appeared so just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in...
And a bit curious as to how Reborn will work if is based on mad Frank's run, its not exactly D+ friendly, then again Moon Knight had its moments
I think Born Again is 18 episodes because it's meant to cover similar ground but now in the MCU as the Netflix shows. I don't mean it's going to tell the exact same story. I mean that Kingpin doesn't know who Matt is. Bullseye hasn't been introduced. The Hand could show up but this time be doing something that isn't dumb as feth. Born Again is our reintroduction into the character/s setting the stage for what to expect from DD moving forward.
Lets not forget that Matt is publicly dead in S3 of DD, and yet he is Spidermans lawyer. So they just cannot take place in the same universe.
I quit all the Netflix Marvel shows 2 episodes into Defenders. Is Daredevil S3 worth watching? Do I need to subject myself to the rest of the Defenders episodes before I watch Daredevil S3?
bbb wrote: I quit all the Netflix Marvel shows 2 episodes into Defenders. Is Daredevil S3 worth watching? Do I need to subject myself to the rest of the Defenders episodes before I watch Daredevil S3?
S3 is definitely worth watching. It has a great version of Bullseye throwing all kinds of crap in great ways.
You don't need to watch defenders. Super simple. Building collapses at the end and everyone thinks Matt Murdock/Dare Devil died in the collapse. Post credits he wakes up in a church being tended to by a nun. Enter s3.
I finally got around to watching Ms. Marvel; it's the first of the MCU shows that I didn't watch each episode as soon as it came out. Overall, it was kind of meh for me. Probably my least favorite of the shows so far. The visual styles and everything were interesting, but otherwise it was very forgettable. Here's hoping She-Hulk is better.
ZergSmasher wrote: I finally got around to watching Ms. Marvel; it's the first of the MCU shows that I didn't watch each episode as soon as it came out. Overall, it was kind of meh for me. Probably my least favorite of the shows so far. The visual styles and everything were interesting, but otherwise it was very forgettable. Here's hoping She-Hulk is better.
I doubt I will ever re-watch it. Teens making teen choices doesn't exactly have a draw for me anymore. The family stuff is good, but so realistic its a little painful (certainly more painful than I want in a lighthearted superhero show), and the 'conflict' with the bad guys honestly just eats time away from the good stuff. Damage Control is stupid, pointless and unexplained beyond 'government agency bad.'
ZergSmasher wrote: I finally got around to watching Ms. Marvel; it's the first of the MCU shows that I didn't watch each episode as soon as it came out. Overall, it was kind of meh for me. Probably my least favorite of the shows so far. The visual styles and everything were interesting, but otherwise it was very forgettable. Here's hoping She-Hulk is better.
I doubt I will ever re-watch it. Teens making teen choices doesn't exactly have a draw for me anymore. The family stuff is good, but so realistic its a little painful (certainly more painful than I want in a lighthearted superhero show), and the 'conflict' with the bad guys honestly just eats time away from the good stuff. Damage Control is stupid, pointless and unexplained beyond 'government agency bad.'
My 11 year old daughter was re-watching it in the basement while I was working on a re-organization project on Sunday, so even thought we finally got around to watching the last episodes Friday night, getting some 2nd hand re-exposure to the other episodes was good to re-emphasize some stuff.
Spoiler:
This is just nitpicking the things that didn't make sense to me.
I loved her family and friends. They love her and her friends and care deeply about her even though she makes some horrible decisions. Crashing the car was an accident, sure, but the AvengersCon thing was ridiculous. Kamala getting the bangle was a little too random for my tastes. Why did her grandmother ship the only thing she has from her mother over in a box with other random jewelry? Did Kamala's grandmother and mother never try on the bangle before? Was it Kamala's mutation that allowed her to access its power? Would have been nice if the bangle had a note that the grandmother specifically wanted Kamala to have the bangle or something else less random. Iman Vellani did a fine job with the role of Ms Marvel, but I was frustrated with the show's writing. Also, why is every boy smitten with her? Why does Kamala's family focus on Kamala pulling the fire alarm and not the fact that the wedding venue was attacked by superpowered people and swarmed with Damage Control? Why does Damage Control not question everyone at the wedding about why the superpowered bad guys are at the wedding? Why did Kamala and her grandmother both share the vision of the train?
I hated what they did with Damage Control. While it was continuing the direction they took them in SM:NWH, they were portrayed as more incompetent and just generally bad people.
The Clandestine were underdeveloped and poorly executed. Why/when were they exiled? Why do they think they can just go back to their home dimension without getting kicked out again? How did they get exiled without destroying the earth the first time? Did they know that going home would destroy earth? How did the Red Daggers know that the Clandestine would destroy earth if they went home? How do they know where the Red Daggers lair is located? Is it because they can track the bangle? Why/how can they track the bangle? Kamran knows his mother will kill to get the bangle, but he seems to be a pretty normal and well adjusted kid even though he knows his mom is from a different dimension and she is keen to turn to murder if she has to wait for a second to get back home. Why didn't she just kill Kamala when she first met her? She murdered her great-grandmother pretty easily. Why didn't Aisha just give the bangle to Najma? Did she know it would destroy the world? When they first find the bangle Aisha is keen to use it, but I guess she knew it would destroy the world and she liked living in it with her husband and kid. That didn't feel very well explained. Why didn't they just use the bangle as soon as they found it since everyone was in the same place and even if it destroyed earth they didn't seem to care? Najma giving Kamram Noor powers when she died was... stupid. How does that even work? Why can Kamram get Noor powers from his dead mom halfway around the world, but Kamala needs a mutation and a bangle?
It takes around 18+ hours to get from NYC to Karachi and plane tickets, especially last minute ones, can cost between $2,000-$6,000. How were they able to get a window and aisle seat last minute? Kamala's family are not portrayed as rich, so how can they so effortlessly agree to and pay for this EXTREMELY SUDDEN trip, especially after what Kamala did when she went to AvengersCon and just having ruined her brother's wedding? How did the Clandestine get to Karachi so fast after breaking out of Damage Control's facility? Why do her cousins, who she hasn't seen in years, just let her wander off by herself? Most families I know would completely lose their minds if kids let a foreign teenage cousin wander around an unfamiliar city alone. It's absurd that her family would let her go out at night too without realizing she wasn't actually with her cousins.
Keeping Kamram's car makes no sense. At best they could drive it till the inspection/registration is up, but then what do you do? How was the car not repossessed by Damage Control? Where is Bruno living now that the Circle Q was blown up... by Damage Control... who are supposed to clean up messes...not make them...? How did they get the Ms. Marvel costume made and shipped from Pakistan so quickly?
bbb wrote: I quit all the Netflix Marvel shows 2 episodes into Defenders. Is Daredevil S3 worth watching? Do I need to subject myself to the rest of the Defenders episodes before I watch Daredevil S3?
S3 is definitely worth watching. It has a great version of Bullseye throwing all kinds of crap in great ways.
You don't need to watch defenders. Super simple. Building collapses at the end and everyone thinks Matt Murdock/Dare Devil died in the collapse. Post credits he wakes up in a church being tended to by a nun. Enter s3.
Thanks! I'll give S3 a shot.
Anything else from the Netflix shows worth watching? I barely made it though Jessica Jones S1 and Iron Fist S1. Luke Cake S1 was okay, but not great.
I still can't shake the feeling that the head Red Dagger guy made this cool diorama showing the two dimensions and was just itching for an excuse to show the first new person to appear at their HQ.
I would hope that She-Hulk, using a Ally McBeal style show as reference, will focus on the tropes of an Ally McBeal style show.
That means a focus on lawyering, fashion, and the latest relationship chaos. Basically, a primetime version of Guiding Light*, because you have to also add Supers to the mix.
* Guiding light- The craziest of the Soap Operas as it featured plot lines about alien abductions, witches, and all sorts of zaniness with the relationship chaos!
H.B.M.C. wrote: I still can't shake the feeling that the head Red Dagger guy made this cool diorama showing the two dimensions and was just itching for an excuse to show the first new person to appear at their HQ.
Kareem: Waleed, why are you spending so much time learning Blender?
Waleed: Ah, you see, someday I will have to explain one of the many threats to our world and this will allow me to provide a detailed exposition to someone, with no understanding of what we do, in a believable, yet quick, manner.
Kareem: Well, hopefully you just happen to pick the correct threat to detail. So, uh, how do you know what the Noor dimension looks like anyway?
Now, Clint Barton, Agent of SHIELD (Hydra)? He probably did murder innocents. Strange how that doesn't need redemption (though admittedly that would make for a terrible MCU and repeat DC's worst mistakes)
The MCU is always clearly the threat justifies the action, and if the government tells you to do it, it isn't really your fault...
Wait. Just realised that list is entirely US shows, which makes me seem a culture snob. For my next trick, I’ll poo on U.K. shows.
I see you are a big naked attraction fan.
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bbb wrote: I quit all the Netflix Marvel shows 2 episodes into Defenders. Is Daredevil S3 worth watching? Do I need to subject myself to the rest of the Defenders episodes before I watch Daredevil S3?
But you would be missing whatever it is Ironfirst and the other ones do. And dinosaur bones or something. I liked Daredevil when it was blind catholic secretly enjoys maiming people. I liked Punisher when it was kill them all, twice. The rest not so hot on.
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ZergSmasher wrote: I finally got around to watching Ms. Marvel; it's the first of the MCU shows that I didn't watch each episode as soon as it came out. Overall, it was kind of meh for me. Probably my least favorite of the shows so far. The visual styles and everything were interesting, but otherwise it was very forgettable. Here's hoping She-Hulk is better.
The visual style was better done in the brilliant (if you have a daughter) The Mitchells vs. the Machines...
So any idea who's 'driving' the other vehicle in this She-Hulk clip?
It's a Saakaran ship supposedly, so it probably means something for Hulk specifically, not sure if they're trying to introduce Skaar somehow.
Also, I'm not a big fan with how they focused on talking about Steve Roger's sex life, don't get why it makes a difference though. Pretty sure no sex before marriage was still a big thing at that time and Steve probably wouldn't care about being a virgin because he would want to find his ideal wife (which he did), so why would it matter?
Moreover, I don't get why the current trend of marvel humour is mocking people for things that went out of fashion as topics of ridicule years ago. These things were seen as funny then we realised they weren't but now they're being used against different groups of people we are supposed to find them hilarious? Thor being stripped and demeaned (with his friend insulting his junk) but sexualising women like black widow is bad? Steve Rogers' sex life is a joke but laughing about the number of sexual partners of a female hero would be disgraceful? Thor using a prosthetic eye that had been in someone's butt - possible gay panic and disabled mockery anyone? Why haven't we moved past this crap?
What next? Will they mock hulk/banner for his arm being disabled (something which comes and goes in the shehulk clips)? Marvel isn't worth watching anymore if they keep this up.
Sounds like they took the tropes out of Ali McBeal and applied them to a Super to me. Those are all about speculating and making fun of other people's sex life......
However, I have not seen She-Hulk or the latest Thor film.
Pretty sure Clint is personally wracked with guilt considering the whole "I am not a person. I am a weapon." bit.
I don't think he considers his time with shield to be him being innocent. He sees himself in Echo. A person working for the Kingpin and absolutely hurting innocents.
didn't care for it, will get round to it at some point but got a lot of Netflix to binge for the 1 month sub I picked up for Sandman, and by then hopefully Only Murders S2 will all be up (weekly drip is grumplatling !)
Also, I'm not a big fan with how they focused on talking about Steve Roger's sex life, don't get why it makes a difference though. Pretty sure no sex before marriage was still a big thing at that time and Steve probably wouldn't care about being a virgin because he would want to find his ideal wife (which he did), so why would it matter?
It's about establishing one of Jennifer's personality quirks. In the comics she's also the type to ask Sue if EVERYTHING stretches.
And as its her show nobody gets to call her out on it
"Steve told me girls didn't look at him twice till the Serum turned him into the Aryan wet dream, which kind of puts that whole lady good guy detection prowess below an old German scientist and a magic hammer"
Watched She Hulk, and is certainly a lot of fun. I look forward to seeing what the rest of the season was like. I really enjoyed the Banter between Jenn and Bruce.
Seriously, is that the first time in the MCU that they’ve acknowledged it?
They flirted with it a little in WandaVision, when they're riffing on the Modern Family interviews (shame the end of the show fell off, but the reveal of who Wanda's actually speaking to was terrific)
Seriously, is that the first time in the MCU that they’ve acknowledged it?
Actually, no. Wanda broke the fourth wall in Multiverse of Madness, but it's so quick you'd likely miss it. There is a brief moment she stares directly into the camera. This was to signify that she senses ALL the multiverse, even ours.
Lance845 wrote: The double standard isn't on disney. Its on the people criticizing it.
Comparing a mainline Disney Marvel show to Kevin Smith toilet humor is the problem. One actually HAD standards.
No, I think it's very apt to point out that there has never been a single conversation what-so-ever about how unnecessary it is for Brody to question whether the Thing has a orange rocky dick and the many conversations cropping up all over the place (It's not just a couple people here on this forum. I see the same kinds of comments in other places.) about Jennifer Walters questioning whether or not Steve Rogers, a famous hero in her world, ever got laid. I think the ridiculousness of it is pretty plain to see. If your point about Jenn doesn't hold up when transposed to another fictional character then what argument do you have? Both comments in both pieces of film are a joke played for laughs. But Brody's crass comments are brushed off as nothing and Jenn's are a point to be made. A negative point of the episode for those bringing it up.
You were around the wrong people, then. Brody's commentary was remarked upon pretty much everywhere , and seen as an indictment of the type of freakshows the general populace thought comics nerds are.
Pondered it a bit more, might have a peek next week, the first episode was Hulk stuff set up heavy, hopefully next when she is back in the world they'll work in her scooby squad, which was always a thing in the law shows its homage/parody of, and course Tim Roth being Tim Roth cos why be something else if you're Tim Roth
also calling it now, Matt and Jenn become a thing and that's what pushes Karen into the Born Again plot
Turnip Jedi wrote: Pondered it a bit more, might have a peek next week, the first episode was Hulk stuff set up heavy, hopefully next when she is back in the world they'll work in her scooby squad, which was always a thing in the law shows its homage/parody of, and course Tim Roth being Tim Roth cos why be something else if you're Tim Roth
also calling it now, Matt and Jenn become a thing and that's what pushes Karen into the Born Again plot
Yikes, I seriously hope that they don't do that. Given Jenn's personality and Matt's brooding, I don't want to see Matt to be the straight man to Jenn's hijiinks and it would be very jarring to try and cross the two opposing genre sub-types they come from. Thankfully Matt, assuming they keep his characterization from the Netflix series, isn't into the weird "Omg, try to imagine being single in your thirrrrrrrties" type of girl, so I'm hoping he's more of antagonistic character that eventually parts ways with her amicably.
Also Jenn is a prosecutor in this first case and Matt is specifically a criminal defense lawyer.
Them being in a relationship is a conflict of interest. Id rather see her and DD meet in the streets to deal with whatever while Jenn and Matt spar in the courtroom.
I’m too lazy to remember which conversations happened where, but for anyone complaining that Jenn was pondering Steve’s sex life and how inappropriate that might be, keep in mind that Banner knew the exact answer.
AduroT wrote: I’m too lazy to remember which conversations happened where, but for anyone complaining that Jenn was pondering Steve’s sex life and how inappropriate that might be, keep in mind that Banner knew the exact answer.
I don't see how that makes it any better tbh, and the fact that Bruce knows doesn't matter as much given that he's actually friends with Steve, unlike Jenn, who only knows his public image. It would be equivalent of her saying Thanos just needed to get laid and the reason why he was so genocidal was because he was sexually frustrated, which would be incredibly dismissive of how tramautizing the snap was for some people and the negative impact he had on people living on Earth, not to mention Bruce who was personally involved trying to stop him. It's a weird dynamic, where if I had a relative of mine talk about one of my personal friends who happen to be famous about their sexual history, it would come off as weird and awkward, even if I'm close to this relative. At least sex stuff rarely, if ever, comes up between conversations for me and my cousins except when it comes to games or shows in terms of jokes, but never about their SO or friends of theirs in that kind of manner. I dunno, I guess I'm apparently old fashioned for being that way?
The weirdest thing here is how much effort you're putting into trying to prove it's not weird that you're so bothered by it. Old fashioned doesn't even begin to cover it.
Azreal13 wrote: The weirdest thing here is how much effort you're putting into trying to prove it's not weird that you're so bothered by it. Old fashioned doesn't even begin to cover it.
Pardon me for not being fan of how poorly done their comedy is being put into the show. This one is just more egregious to me than the others because it's clearly taking a shot at a legacy character like Captain America using a very clunky and vapid topic out of all the possible things she could have talked about with Bruce. I also just wanted point out the hypocrisy of a feminist character like She Hulk proceeding to make fun of Steve for being a virgin, as if his worth depended on having sex and fulfilling the gender roles of the evil heteropatriarchy that objectifies women.
I'm just waiting for her to lecture Matt Murdock about how hard it is to be a women in law, and for him to just sit there and take it while he goes back to reading his braille, but I think that's something that's too on the nose for Marvel to consider ever putting in.
It appears to me that far from being clunky it's a perfectly natural thing, both in terms of how people interact with each other on a day to day basis in reality, and totally consistent with aspects of Jen's character since forever.
It seems more like you're holding a minority viewpoint, which is fine, but then making it a fault of the product rather acknowledging that it's doing something you don't like because of that viewpoint, which is less fine.
Lance845 wrote: Also Jenn is a prosecutor in this first case and Matt is specifically a criminal defense lawyer.
Them being in a relationship is a conflict of interest. Id rather see her and DD meet in the streets to deal with whatever while Jenn and Matt spar in the courtroom.
Id cite McBeal vs Paul, inappropriate and unwise hand holding choices are a cornerstone of the lady-centric comedy-drama genre, heck you could even wrangle a Stark reference in
But yeah it wont really happen and I missed the I meant to end the comment with
Azreal13 wrote: The weirdest thing here is how much effort you're putting into trying to prove it's not weird that you're so bothered by it. Old fashioned doesn't even begin to cover it.
Pardon me for not being fan of how poorly done their comedy is being put into the show. This one is just more egregious to me than the others because it's clearly taking a shot at a legacy character like Captain America using a very clunky and vapid topic out of all the possible things she could have talked about with Bruce. I also just wanted point out the hypocrisy of a feminist character like She Hulk proceeding to make fun of Steve for being a virgin, as if his worth depended on having sex and fulfilling the gender roles of the evil heteropatriarchy that objectifies women.
I'm just waiting for her to lecture Matt Murdock about how hard it is to be a women in law, and for him to just sit there and take it while he goes back to reading his braille, but I think that's something that's too on the nose for Marvel to consider ever putting in.
When exactly did she "make fun" of Steve for potentially being a virgin? She never said any aspect of it as derogatory. She was debating the facts of the situation as a conversation she was having fun participating in. Then, in the post credits, she triumphantly exalts the answer to the question. There was no making fun. There was good natured debate followed by celebration.
Grimskul wrote: I also just wanted point out the hypocrisy of a feminist character like She Hulk proceeding to make fun of Steve for being a virgin, as if his worth depended on having sex and fulfilling the gender roles of the evil heteropatriarchy that objectifies women.
At no point does she make fun of him for being a virgin, nor does she seem to imply she sees anything wrong with it or that it in any way diminishes his character or achievements. I think anyone reading that into the conversation has much more of an agenda than they're accusing the show of having. I viewed it more as a light-hearted conversation that also happens to tie into the various comments Bruce makes about the realities of life as a superhero.
Grimskul wrote: I also just wanted point out the hypocrisy of a feminist character like She Hulk proceeding to make fun of Steve for being a virgin, as if his worth depended on having sex and fulfilling the gender roles of the evil heteropatriarchy that objectifies women.
At no point does she make fun of him for being a virgin, nor does she seem to imply she sees anything wrong with it or that it in any way diminishes his character or achievements. I think anyone reading that into the conversation has much more of an agenda than they're accusing the show of having. I viewed it more as a light-hearted conversation that also happens to tie into the various comments Bruce makes about the realities of life as a superhero.
I think it also bears repeating - the question of whether Steve did or did not get a chance to do the nasty in the pasty has been a very long running geekworld fan debate. Having her bring it up is both the kind of comic flirtation with the fourth wall the character is known for, as well a giving the MCU a chance to make a retrospective canon ruling on it.
Yeah, so, 30m runtime, including 1.5m worth of recap/Marvel logo and over 6m of credits. Plus a story that stops at the third act break. Wonderful. Why are D+ shows so abysmally paced/structured? It's so damned frustrating to see the potential washed down the drain, week, after week, after week.
On the bright side, unlike last week, we now have a sense of what the show is about. This episode was still mostly set up, but it appears we're over that hump and into the show proper (both these episodes could have been a single episode, with the "ending" being a nice complication cliffhanger to draw us back next week).
Jen is still great, even if the 4th wall stuff isn't being used enough to be meaningful. I like that we have a story - something a number of MCU D+ shows failed to incorporate - but as something that's billed as a legal comedy the show isn't funny. There are laughs - MCU style laughs, which is totally fine - and I can see it attempting to ape things like Ally McBeal (especially Jen talking over Bruce during the phone conversation), but it's not being clever about it. It's not a comedy (yet, at least). It does feel like it's trying to be though, which is somehow worse. Take the family, for example, who were awful (intentionally), but in an unrealistic way, almost caricatures. Give me Kamala's family any damned day. And her best friend is annoying. And it seems that they put Bruce on a bus. Cool.
So, like last week, I still want to see what happens next, but right now it still feels half baked, and the cutting off mid-plot that this show keeps doing (like almost every D+ show) isn't helping.
That was pretty inevitable.
Paying Ruffalo for a guest spot is different from paying him for the show's run. (And I'm pretty sure that Hollywood is structured in a way that even a brief presence in a second episode changes the required credits and salary).
Also (and IMO, more importantly), Bruce as a recurring character fundamentally changes the show. It would no longer be She-Hulk, Attorney at Law, but the Hulk (also starring She-Hulk) Show.
...ugh. Repeatedly typing hulk just drives home how stupid super-hero names are.
After watching episode 2 of She-Hulk I think it would be much better for the start of that series if there was just one longer episode made from the first two.
Shadow Walker wrote: After watching episode 2 of She-Hulk I think it would be much better for the start of that series if there was just one longer episode made from the first two.
Apparently the press screenings included the first 4 this time around. I suspect that'll be the end of the first arc.
When Ghost Rider returns to the MCU, it has, has has to be Nic Cage.
This is not only My Hill. But The Hill I Will Die On With My Boots On. On.
I can see him maybe making a cameo when he gets reintroduced, but I can't imagine they'll actually bring him back as the main lead for the role, especially given how poorly the past Ghost Riders were received as movies.
So, I guess more accurately, The Hill You Will Not Die On But Cry On.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They'll probably bring Cage back in the same capacity as Snipes: A nod to the fans, and respect for the originator.
Voss wrote: When he can emote something other than 'unengaged, aging stoner' we can talk
He did. When he won an Oscar. Cage is far more than the memes would have you believe.
I don't know any Nicolas Cage 'memes.' I just find him a boring, wooden presence on screen. Whether he's secretly John Travolta, raiding Alcatraz or selling weapons, he's always just that guy, Nic Cage.
That's his entire range, just being himself.
Make Johnny a mentor or whatever. But all the most iconic Ghost Rider stuff comes from Danny. We all think the name Johnny Blaze but we picture Danny Ketch in our heads.
The spikes, the chain, the motorcycle with a big face plate, the penance stare, it all comes from Ketch.
But all the most iconic Ghost Rider stuff comes from Danny. We all think the name Johnny Blaze but we picture Danny Ketch in our heads.
No I don't.
I think Johnny Blaze & i picture classic Ghost Rider of the 70s/80s.
Then I think of the Nic Cage movies & wish they'd better (wich likely involves Cage not have being cast...
When you say Danny Ketch? All I think is "typical 2nd rate 90s replacement character".
Riding a stupid looking bike to boot.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Yep. Blaze all the way. I have no idea who Danny Ketch is.
Some guy they pointlessly replaced Baze with in the 90's when they could've just had him switch costumes to the black leather & spikes.
But it could always get worse. My buddy has a recent Heroclix figure of Ghost Rider mounted on a flaming wooly mammoth. (??WTF??)
I don't want to know anything about whatever issue spawned that I hope to God I never see it on screen.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Yep. Blaze all the way. I have no idea who Danny Ketch is.
Literally every aspect of Ghost Rider that people know of comes from Danny Ketch sans the flaming skull. Yeah, he was one of the 90s replacement characters. But he was one of the very few successful ones. The idea that the spirit of vengeance is a fallen corrupted angle? Ketch. The chains? Ketch. Penance Stare? Ketch. Hell, Johnny Blaze's motorcycle didn't even have flaming wheels until after Ketch came along.
Blaze just had the flaming skull. Rode around on his stunt cycle with his skin tight high collar circus performer costume and punched people.
Ketch revamped the character in a way that every aspect of him has stuck around and stood the test of time. Even the Nic Cage movies are just Ketch with Johnny's origin story.
I feel like if the final episode had been the third episode and the Clan Destine stuff was saved for a second arc or even a second season it would have felt a lot better.
LunarSol wrote: I feel like if the final episode had been the third episode and the Clan Destine stuff was saved for a second arc or even a second season it would have felt a lot better.
Yup, that would have helped the show immensely. 6 episodes wasn't enough to cram in the DODC and the clan destine, but it might have been enough for just one of them.
I would have left out the Clan Destine stuff entirely. It’s not a thing that’s ever entered the comics for her. I’d have kept it entirely in the US and just done the DODC.
The weird thing is that so much of the show is about reinventing a new convoluted explanation for her powers before tossing it into the carte blanc excuse bucket in the post credit scene. It makes the Destine stuff feel extra pointless in hindsight.
Whaaaaat, you guys don't like twerking? That's definitely something that won't have problems aging well in the long term, what are you talking about?
/s
I get the CGI cost issue of having Abomination being in monster mode the whole time, but it does seem very odd to me that Abomination can also just switch at all with no repurcussions. Wasn’t that the whole point of his character? That while the Hulk - who is seen as a monster - can change back to Banner at any time, symbolising he still has his humanity, Blonsky can’t change back because he threw away his humanity in his blind pursuit of power after getting just a taste of it and that's part of his bitterness towards Hulk. I think it's just annoying that Marvel keeps using off-screen time skips as a way to bypass character development, since they already did it with Hulk and now they did it to Blonsky too.
But much like all helmets have to be nano-machines that fold away so actors can deliver dialogue, so to must big creatures be able to shrink back down to human form to safe money in the budget.
Just wait 'til The Thing shows up in a couple of years.
Grimskul wrote: Whaaaaat, you guys don't like twerking? That's definitely something that won't have problems aging well in the long term, what are you talking about?
/s
I get the CGI cost issue of having Abomination being in monster mode the whole time, but it does seem very odd to me that Abomination can also just switch at all with no repurcussions. Wasn’t that the whole point of his character? That while the Hulk - who is seen as a monster - can change back to Banner at any time, symbolising he still has his humanity, Blonsky can’t change back because he threw away his humanity in his blind pursuit of power after getting just a taste of it and that's part of his bitterness towards Hulk. I think it's just annoying that Marvel keeps using off-screen time skips as a way to bypass character development, since they already did it with Hulk and now they did it to Blonsky too.
The Blonski thing is a mirror of Jenn in showing that the problem is with Bruce, not the Hulk. BRUCE has no control. Everyone else does. Because Bruce has never confronted any of his underlying issues. Blonski doesn't have a "other guy" just like Jenn doesn't have an "other guy" and they are both in control of their transformations because they are in control of themselves. This is all sign posting for Bruce's DID becoming a bigger story point.
Grimskul wrote: Whaaaaat, you guys don't like twerking? That's definitely something that won't have problems aging well in the long term, what are you talking about?
/s
I get the CGI cost issue of having Abomination being in monster mode the whole time, but it does seem very odd to me that Abomination can also just switch at all with no repurcussions. Wasn’t that the whole point of his character? That while the Hulk - who is seen as a monster - can change back to Banner at any time, symbolising he still has his humanity, Blonsky can’t change back because he threw away his humanity in his blind pursuit of power after getting just a taste of it and that's part of his bitterness towards Hulk. I think it's just annoying that Marvel keeps using off-screen time skips as a way to bypass character development, since they already did it with Hulk and now they did it to Blonsky too.
The Blonski thing is a mirror of Jenn in showing that the problem is with Bruce, not the Hulk. BRUCE has no control. Everyone else does. Because Bruce has never confronted any of his underlying issues. Blonski doesn't have a "other guy" just like Jenn doesn't have an "other guy" and they are both in control of their transformations because they are in control of themselves. This is all sign posting for Bruce's DID becoming a bigger story point.
I mean this would be more meaningful if they didn't go the route of Professor Hulk of literally telling instead of showing, with the time skip just having Bruce magically fuse both sides that apparently he could have done earlier but just didn't, which is a terrible way of handling the conflict in the Bruce-Hulk struggle for control cliffhanger we were left with in Infinity War. This story point SHOULD have been addressed in Endgame but was haphazardly rushed out because the Russo brothers didn't know what they wanted to do with Hulk and worfed him.
Now after Endgame, we basically only have wacky Bruce wearing Hulk's skinsuit who is being upstaged by someone who just got their Hulk powers and now Blonski for some reason. Of all the characters that the MCU has bungled the most, it's arguably the Hulk and the transition to Mark Ruffalo from Edward Norton (as you can tell from how Betty Ross apparently no longer exists and how they tried shoehorning Black Widow as his love interest instead).
Grimskul wrote: Whaaaaat, you guys don't like twerking? That's definitely something that won't have problems aging well in the long term, what are you talking about?
/s
I get the CGI cost issue of having Abomination being in monster mode the whole time, but it does seem very odd to me that Abomination can also just switch at all with no repurcussions. Wasn’t that the whole point of his character? That while the Hulk - who is seen as a monster - can change back to Banner at any time, symbolising he still has his humanity, Blonsky can’t change back because he threw away his humanity in his blind pursuit of power after getting just a taste of it and that's part of his bitterness towards Hulk. I think it's just annoying that Marvel keeps using off-screen time skips as a way to bypass character development, since they already did it with Hulk and now they did it to Blonsky too.
The Blonski thing is a mirror of Jenn in showing that the problem is with Bruce, not the Hulk. BRUCE has no control. Everyone else does. Because Bruce has never confronted any of his underlying issues. Blonski doesn't have a "other guy" just like Jenn doesn't have an "other guy" and they are both in control of their transformations because they are in control of themselves. This is all sign posting for Bruce's DID becoming a bigger story point.
I mean this would be more meaningful if they didn't go the route of Professor Hulk of literally telling instead of showing, with the time skip just having Bruce magically fuse both sides that apparently he could have done earlier but just didn't, which is a terrible way of handling the conflict in the Bruce-Hulk struggle for control cliffhanger we were left with in Infinity War. This story point SHOULD have been addressed in Endgame but was haphazardly rushed out because the Russo brothers didn't know what they wanted to do with Hulk and worfed him.
Would a training montage of Bruce/Hulk in therapy really have been interesting enough to justify filming?
And if they hadn't advanced him any between IW & EG? You'd just complain anyways.
But hey, if enough of you really want to see that bit of Hulks story? Pitch it to D+. Maybe they can spin a flashback series out of the idea.....
Grimskul wrote: Now after Endgame, we basically only have wacky Bruce wearing Hulk's skinsuit who is being upstaged by someone who just got their Hulk powers and now Blonski for some reason.
Jen did point out to Bruce that she doesn't have his problems.
Blonski having learned to control his change - again, is showing him sitting in prison for 10+ years & having nothing better to do than eat/sleep/poop/read a book & figure this out interesting enough to spend the resources filming it? NO. Or at least not in the context of this show.
Grimskul wrote: Of all the characters that the MCU has bungled the most, it's arguably the Hulk and the transition to Mark Ruffalo from Edward Norton (as you can tell from how Betty Ross apparently no longer exists and how they tried shoehorning Black Widow as his love interest instead).
Ok, so many years after his 1st rampage as the Hulk & then disappearing off the grid (where Avengers catches up with him) his ex isn't in the picture. Hasn't been in a long time. And he doesn't ever mention her while he's fighting off aliens, robots, mad gods, etc.
So what?
Somewhat related question: If you all don't like the show, why do you keep watching it?
AduroT wrote: I hate the vanishing nano masks so much…
I genuinely wonder if it’s a Union thing. I mean, Cap has never had a Nano Mask type thing, but then his mask isn’t full head or full face, and so we can still see it’s Chris Evans performing. Perhaps something along the lines of if it’s not a full CGI scene (such as fisticuffs), the actor’s face should be visible.
This is all speculating, and I’m not passing judgement either way.
Three episodes in, ready to pass summary judgement on the whole series now.
-Effects still look bad. She-Hulk doesn't look like she's in any scene she's in whenever there are other human beings in the frame. This was a problem many people predicted and I think they should have thought of a non-CGI solution if this was really the best they could pull off.
-I also don't personally like they look they have for She-Hulk. There's a lot of variation to her design in the comics and this could have gone a lot of ways, it seems they've settled on 'regular supermodel build but very tall' and I don't know if they keep touching it up or what, but once you start noticing the disproportionately skinny wrists and stuff we slide backwards into the uncanny valley. I personally prefer a more muscular She-Hulk.
-Speaking of, and this was especially noticable in the last episode, it seems like we're getting less She-Hulk as time goes on:
Spoiler:
After making it a plot point in the last episode that she was only being hired for her She-Hulkness and that they expected her to be in that form in the office and in court, she spent the entire parole sequence in Jessica form. Did I miss some dialogue explaining why? Felt like a cost saving measure.
-I'm glad that we're breaking the fourth wall - that's a staple of the comics and that made She-Hulk fun to read.
-Revisiting past marvel villains and stuff in the courtroom setting is very fun, hopefully that aside in the car is a promise that they won't all be cameos though.
-Speaking of, Abomination was a good choice here, since he does have a legit case limiting his own active culpability, but the stuff about his rehabilitation felt hacky - I'd say the writers were trying to make fun of the idea of criminal rehabilitation but it almost feels like these were filler jokes they couldn't spice up.
-The jokes about sexism fell flat for me. The comedically misogynistic co-worker sucked the fun out of every scene he was in and I was so glad he was gone, only for him to show up again in episode 3 anyway. I'm surprised they handle it so sloppily after episode 1 handled it so well with the guy asking Jen if she was all right only for him and his friends to turn scary hostile when she told him to leave her alone.
The Verdict: Could be better. Should be better, given the source material.
The Sentence: All that said, I'll probably keep watching, I'm invested enough in She-Hulk herself that I want to see how things pan out, and the core idea of examining superhero stuff through a legal lens (or at least a 'tv law' lens) is fun.
She wasn't She-Hulk in the prison because the guard outside explained she wasn't allowed to be. Which is...moderately sensible, even though, yeah, its probably budget.
Speaking of, Abomination was a good choice here, since he does have a legit case limiting his own active culpability, but the stuff about his rehabilitation felt hacky - I'd say the writers were trying to make fun of the idea of criminal rehabilitation but it almost feels like these were filler jokes they couldn't spice up.
Yeah, they handled the whole thing with an uneven hand.
I figured the seven soulmates was a meta reference, but then they showed up. And he seemed incredibly insincere, but apparently wasn't. It all just sort of happened, but the way they handled it sucked all the stakes out.
The premise for a lot of this (including the Abomination, and superhero culpability in general) is really interesting, but I don't know that they're going to let the series settle in and actually explore it.
After making it a plot point in the last episode that she was only being hired for her She-Hulkness and that they expected her to be in that form in the office and in court, she spent the entire parole sequence in Jessica form. Did I miss some dialogue explaining why? Felt like a cost saving measure.
You did. The first time she came to the prison she showed up as She Hulk and the guard immediately stopped her telling her no super powers within the prison. Since the parole takes place inside of Blonski's cell room she has to stay Jenn inside the prison. It's also why the room gets rushed full of guards when Blonski turns into Abomination despite him being calm the entire time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And he left them all high and dry at the end.
Blonsky isn't rehabilitated.
Well, won't speak to the latter (it'd be a waste of the Abomination in many ways), but the 'leaving them' at the end wasn't cut and dry to me. I couldn't really tell their emotional reaction in that mess of a shot(it honestly seemed celebratory) and prison bureaucracy being what it is, they have no legal status and the prison (reasonably) won't risk putting unrelated civilians on a prison transport departing from the prison's secure area. Its a little different from the standard Hollywood trope of just pushing paroled prisoners out the front gate, but it didn't tell me anything about Blonsky's intent.
AduroT wrote: No idea who their boss is, but for the record those guys were the Wrecking Crew, primarily Thor villains, but they tend to really get around.
stupid as they are, the wrecking crew's always been one of my favorite groups of villains. here's hoping they get to show up in other projects, not just an episode or two of she-hulk.
I'm pissed that they add another female superhero to the ranks of shows that my daughter wants to watch, but they slam it so full of stuff no 9 year old should be exposed to that she can barely watch selected clips from it.
Just Tony wrote: I'm pissed that they add another female superhero to the ranks of shows that my daughter wants to watch, but they slam it so full of stuff no 9 year old should be exposed to that she can barely watch selected clips from it.
Is that sarcasm? I’m straining to think of much besides Captain America Fu, and Twirking, which were both just short post credits stuff.
Not going to touch parenting, but... its a she-hulk show based on legal comedies like Ally McBeal. It wasn't ever going to be kid-oriented.
At some point its going to hit the obligatory relationship episode/arc and she's going to be topping a guy in the bedroom (well, PG-13 topping). There was a brief look at that in the trailer, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
AduroT wrote: No idea who their boss is, but for the record those guys were the Wrecking Crew, primarily Thor villains, but they tend to really get around.
stupid as they are, the wrecking crew's always been one of my favorite groups of villains. here's hoping they get to show up in other projects, not just an episode or two of she-hulk.
I too have a fondness for the wrecking crew. I am somehow both happy and disappointed that they seem even more low-rent than their comic-book counterparts. I seem to remember that they hung out with Absorbing Man quite a bit....
I'm wondering on the source of their glowing blue accouterments. Reactivated Chitauri tech bought from Adrian Toomes?
Alright, three episodes in and I really like it so far. I didn't mind the post credits scene for episode 3, it was goofy and intended that way. People will look back on twerking as.... twerking. It's just twerking, it's a dance move. Come on.
Humor is pretty good. CGI needs work but that is the case with almost everything CGI. All of the cameos have been A+, even Abomination. Wish it was a little longer, I was hoping for 45 minutes.
Overall, enjoying it so far. Look forward to the next 6.
LunarSol wrote: At the moment Asgard is a good "has powers" shorthand until they get Mutants rolling.
That was my thought as well. They're an established source of 'super-stuff' that doesn't require any explanation or long-winded 'how did this get here and how does it work?'
And also functions as a 'you may also like....' advertising that isn't 'Thor: Love and Thunder on D+ next week' level of hammer to the face.
Finished Ms. Marvel...... anything that wasn't about her mysterious past or super heroics was really fun.... the mysterious past and super heroics were middling.
Is it though? At least in terms of season 1 stuff? Her main driving motivations in the core story of the series is her family/community and her love of superheroes. The strongest material from the series is the dynamic between her, her persona, her family, her community, and the DoDC. The mysterious past origins stuff is an extension of her family, but that's why it feels awkward where it sits in the story. It's not integral to the character, its something to expand on once the character wraps up her foundational story.
I mean... Its basically their actual story. And the construction tools are all covered in runes and gak.
I would like to see them get the lightning/whatever transferring some of the power from the items to the people bit. But i am happy to have them around being weird super powered goons.
Is it though? At least in terms of season 1 stuff? Her main driving motivations in the core story of the series is her family/community and her love of superheroes. The strongest material from the series is the dynamic between her, her persona, her family, her community, and the DoDC. The mysterious past origins stuff is an extension of her family, but that's why it feels awkward where it sits in the story. It's not integral to the character, its something to expand on once the character wraps up her foundational story.
And its pretty much completely separate from the comics where she’s an Inhuman and that’s just kind of accepted at face value. There’s an occasional debate with Bruno on the nature of her powers, but none of that exploring the past stuff. The DODC however comes across as rather similar in function to the recent CRADLE storyline with her and Champions, though definitely not a one for one mind you. They shouldn’t have debuted her with a Fate Of The World storyline and left her with more street level stuff.
The whole flashback/time travel episode existed purely to confirm something that we already knew: That the 'lights' Kamala's grandmother followed were created by time travelling Kamala. It was a diversion that just slowed everything down. And the Clan Destine side of the story was weak from the get-go, with 1-dimensional bad guys who didn't really do much and exited the plot almost as quickly as they entered it.
Yeah, my biggest complaint about the Ms Marvel show was the constant introduction and resolution of different antagonists. None of them stuck around long enough to build any emotional connections and stakes. If you ditched the Clan Destine and probably the Red Daggers and just dealt with Kamala dealing with her family, some street level crime she is trying to be a local hero about, and DoDC coming after her there would have been more focus on the personal relationships and they would have had more time to breath.
It would have been more about WHO she is then WHERE she came from. Which is think is the stronger story for her character.
Lance845 wrote: Yeah, my biggest complaint about the Ms Marvel show was the constant introduction and resolution of different antagonists. None of them stuck around long enough to build any emotional connections and stakes. If you ditched the Clan Destine and probably the Red Daggers and just dealt with Kamala dealing with her family, some street level crime she is trying to be a local hero about, and DoDC coming after her there would have been more focus on the personal relationships and they would have had more time to breath.
It would have been more about WHO she is then WHERE she came from. Which is think is the stronger story for her character.
Yeah, so much this. Doing this would have elevated a good show to a great one. 6 episodes was just not enough to do justice to all the things they wanted to touch on. Ditto for most of the D+ shows if I'm being honest.
This I don't really agree with. I think FatWS is full on great. Wanda Visions failures are an issue of circumstance. The pandemic really fethed with it's production. I kind of place it in the same boat as Quantum of Solace and the writers strike. It's fething amazing it is what it is considering what it went through. Loki, fuckin killing it. Moon Knight, great. Final fight only falls apart in that the big bad fight was a little flat considering all the great character building.
Ms Marvel is unique in that it didn't seem to have a central through line. A steady conflict that built throughout the show to be resolved. It just kept leaping from problem to problem after discarding the last one.
Ms Marvel was a bunch of great characters (like seriously great characters in that family) in search of a story to be told with them. Instead we got the story of Clan Destine, and not even a well told one. We don’t even get the story of the Department Of Damage Control. When did they get so important? They were just the clean up crew. Why are they now policing Enhanced with arsenals of high tech weaponry?
AduroT wrote: Ms Marvel was a bunch of great characters (like seriously great characters in that family) in search of a story to be told with them. Instead we got the story of Clan Destine, and not even a well told one. We don’t even get the story of the Department Of Damage Control. When did they get so important? They were just the clean up crew. Why are they now policing Enhanced with arsenals of high tech weaponry?
I loved everyone in Kamala's American family except Kamala. And it's not that I disliked her, but they didn't make her as endearing as everyone else. It felt like the whole Clan Destine plot was added not to explain how Kamala got her powers as much as to give an excuse to go to Pakistan and showcase Pakistan history, which would have been fine if the Clan Destine stuff was actually well executed. DoDC devolved into the equivalent of incompetent mustache twirling villains, which was especially annoying because the main DoDC guy told the woman agent to not be a jerk... and she was a massive jerk. Ever since they blew up SHIELD (which was interesting, but shortsighted) the MCU has been struggling with a quasi-state of deep-SHIELD exists/does not exist. (Schrödinger's SHIELD). DoDC was just the superhuman cleanup crew, but now it's been elevated to be a SHIELD replacement and it just doesn't work. Why hasn't DoDC talked to She Hulk yet? Why hasn't deep-SHIELD talked to She Hulk yet?
Well, She-Hulk hasn't caused any damage and her identity is public knowledge. If she does anything illegal or causes any wide spread destruction they know where to find her.
Kamala appeared out of no where as an unknown in a instance that caused damage and almost hurt people. DoDC had reason to find out who that was and what kind of damage they were capable of instead of waiting for the destruction to happen first and then go looking for somebody they couldn't identify.
I think it's also important to note that this is all a precursor to and leading towards the Anti Mutant stuff. A power dampening collar on Abomination? Yup. That tech won't be misused on innocents or children at all.
DoDC having agents who get zealous and go rogue hunting teenagers? Yeah. No foreshadowing there.
Ms Marvel is unique in that it didn't seem to have a central through line. A steady conflict that built throughout the show to be resolved. It just kept leaping from problem to problem after discarding the last one.
Perhaps because that is a characteristic or trope of the genre it was trying to ape? The teen coming-of-age comedy often does the same thing.
I suspect they just spent a lot of time in preproduction deciding how to replace the Inhuman thing and didn't have a great way to organically fit it into the DoDC story they were working from. Lots of things make for underwhelming experiences but perfectly solid wiki articles. Feels like kind of the reverse of that.
I don’t even know why they bothered with the magic bracelet from another dimension if they were going to drop the M word at the end as an additional explanation for her powers.
AduroT wrote: I don’t even know why they bothered with the magic bracelet from another dimension if they were going to drop the M word at the end as an additional explanation for her powers.
Remember when Marvel and FOX were fighting over the X-Men and Marvel canceled the Fantastic Four out of spite and forbid any new X-Men characters? That is around the time that Kamala Khan was introduced and why she's not a mutant in the comics. The 'magic bracelet' was just a red herring so as not to spoil the 'mutant' reveal at the end of the season.
It's not a red herring though. It's a specific combination of the two and what makes her a hero and not something just anyone can be with the right jewellery.
While everyone else is watching Ms. Marvel and She Hulk I'm all the way back here finishing The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
Really struggled to get into this one, not because it's bad, it's actually pretty good (Although I don't think the Flag Smashers ever make much sense) but it's so tied into The Blip and I will never let go of my hatred for that particular plot point.
I do love that they predicted how everyone would act so well that they just filled the show to make jokes of it.
BTW, I found out that all the little blurbs with people saying little 1 liners and the twitter messages.... Those are just real messages the show has been receiving since it was announced. They just fixed the spelling and put it in the show.
Easy E wrote: Do they explain why Wong and Abomination are "fight club friends"?
If I remember from the previous episode correctly, they only said that Wong, as a Sorcerer Supreme, needed a strong opponent.
Which is a pretty lazy and contrived excuse for him to be involved in the story. As much as I like Wong, I don't think the Ancient One or Doctor Strange needed to break someone out of prison for the bizarre reason of needing to show off that they're qualified. It would be like if the head of the FBI had to covertly break out a criminal/terrorist out of a Supermax prison to an underground cage fight prove he was the best FBI agent there is lol.
He wasn't doing it to show his qualification. He was doing it because he's the Sorcerer Supreme, who also enjoys participating in illegal underground fight clubs and wanted a strong opponent to test himself/hype the crowd with. Wong did not break Blonsky out for good reasons, he just wanted a good fight. He's a good enough person to ensure no one else pays for his transgressions, but when the panel comments on the laws broken he's pretty quick to peace out because he doesn't really care.
LunarSol wrote: He wasn't doing it to show his qualification. He was doing it because he's the Sorcerer Supreme, who also enjoys participating in illegal underground fight clubs and wanted a strong opponent to test himself/hype the crowd with. Wong did not break Blonsky out for good reasons, he just wanted a good fight. He's a good enough person to ensure no one else pays for his transgressions, but when the panel comments on the laws broken he's pretty quick to peace out because he doesn't really care.
I mean, isn't that even worse? That just shows how, despite the immense responsibility of the Sorcerer Supreme to protect earth from spiritual/magic threats, he goofs off by going to random countries and willy nilly breaking the laws and do whatever he wants because he feels like it. It's not even for the greater good of protecting against a greater threat and it goes against what we've seen about Wong being a funny, but respectable character. Given that Strange can conjure up various creatures from portals, you don't think Wong could do that to fight them instead for practice and in a more controlled environment? Especially since Abomination is supposed to be an almost Hulk level threat, which is pretty dangerous if he screwed up and let him loose, which is a pretty high margin for error and something that I feel seems OOC for him. He can go into fight clubs if he wants but it definitely shouldn't be involving kidnapping villains because he may as well head to Sakaar for better fights then.
Wong has never been particularly law abiding. He cares about the responsibilities of the fabric of the universe, but everything else is a little beneath him and he's rather flippant towards authority. He wanted to fight a Hulk, he felt like he could handle a Hulk so he nabbed an otherwise idle Hulk to fight. He feels responsible for his actions in so much that he ensures no one is harmed by his actions, but he doesn't really care about the legality of it.
LunarSol wrote: Wong has never been particularly law abiding. He cares about the responsibilities of the fabric of the universe, but everything else is a little beneath him and he's rather flippant towards authority. He wanted to fight a Hulk, he felt like he could handle a Hulk so he nabbed an otherwise idle Hulk to fight. He feels responsible for his actions in so much that he ensures no one is harmed by his actions, but he doesn't really care about the legality of it.
You actually raise a better question here. He's actually on speaking terms with Hulk, why didn't he just ask Bruce for a sparring session or even the cage fight as a favour instead, considering that Hulk is stronger/more recognizable than Abomination AND it wouldn't involve having to prison break and then return the guy back there.
LunarSol wrote: Wong has never been particularly law abiding. He cares about the responsibilities of the fabric of the universe, but everything else is a little beneath him and he's rather flippant towards authority. He wanted to fight a Hulk, he felt like he could handle a Hulk so he nabbed an otherwise idle Hulk to fight. He feels responsible for his actions in so much that he ensures no one is harmed by his actions, but he doesn't really care about the legality of it.
You actually raise a better question here. He's actually on speaking terms with Hulk, why didn't he just ask Bruce for a sparring session or even the cage fight as a favour instead, considering that Hulk is stronger/more recognizable than Abomination AND it wouldn't involve having to prison break and then return the guy back there.
Hulk is now known to be rational. Public perception of Abomination remained that of an unchained beast.
Plus, Blonsky has decades of military training and experience. Banner/Hulk. Not so much. So I argue Abomination was the more impressive foe.
LunarSol wrote: Wong has never been particularly law abiding. He cares about the responsibilities of the fabric of the universe, but everything else is a little beneath him and he's rather flippant towards authority. He wanted to fight a Hulk, he felt like he could handle a Hulk so he nabbed an otherwise idle Hulk to fight. He feels responsible for his actions in so much that he ensures no one is harmed by his actions, but he doesn't really care about the legality of it.
You actually raise a better question here. He's actually on speaking terms with Hulk, why didn't he just ask Bruce for a sparring session or even the cage fight as a favour instead, considering that Hulk is stronger/more recognizable than Abomination AND it wouldn't involve having to prison break and then return the guy back there.
Hulk is now known to be rational. Public perception of Abomination remained that of an unchained beast.
Plus, Blonsky has decades of military training and experience. Banner/Hulk. Not so much. So I argue Abomination was the more impressive foe.
Hulk, even with his rebranding as "smart/grey hulk" definitely has more brand recognition in ability from his status as an Avenger and being hunted on the run prior to that for 10 years. Abomination basically only showed up one night in Harlem and wrecked things up. Sure he killed a few people, but if we follow the MCU timeline he's basically been doing nothing for over a decade. And this guy straight up lost in a 1v1 versus Hulk, so I don't know how he's a more impressive guy to beat, especially when he's definitely out of practice being in prison this whole time.
Very weak episode. Mr. Perfect bailing at the end was expected, and I get this show isn't made for me, but I could have done without one-night stand that just gets blown off. It wasn't jokey, it wasn't emotional, it just kind of happens and gets memory-holed.
It was emotional, but not in a relationship way, its a staple social commentary for genre (and also She-Hulk the comic book character), about the difficulties of professional women in the dating arena. And also strong women.
Its a bit of a trope & cliché, but it would be a really glaring omission if they left it out. Its also an important part of Jen accepting her current status and her character arc.
Now, you could certainly argue that its heavy handed and obvious, but it'd be an utter failure for the show if they just skipped this aspect.
Fans of Ally McBeal and superheroes. And meta-jokes.
Its suits the character, but not, perhaps, the general MCU audience.
It strikes me as another push into 'superheroes + <genre>,' which the MCU has done a lot (superheroes +spiess, superheroes+heist, etc). Its an experiment I suspect they'll be willing to quietly drop it if it doesn't go well (much like I suspect Ms Marvel will be a Captain Marvel sidekick or part of ensemble in the future, but I have doubts we'll see another season of a primary show).
I'm no AllyMcBeal fan, but I gotta agree with HBMC where I really struggle to see how it's strong on the latter two fronts. Not enough quality action scenes that emphasize the "super" part of being a superhero (so far all she's done is one-up people like the Hulk, or basically completely overpower whoever she's fighting within minutes, like Titania or the Wrecking Crew, who are effectively non-threats and boring to watch) or development on She-Hulk to really get invested in terms of her character, where right now she's basically always right and can do no wrong. There's also no real sense of tension because there's no overarching, or engaging villain that has been introduced yet for her to contend with (I guess dumb bossy males are what that's being counted as that right now? Oh joy) so we don't have that. And then the metajokes are...just kinda there? Unlike Deadpool where I feel there were interspersed in a way that flowed well with the overall story, I feel that hers just kinda is slotted in because it has to be. It isn't even good in terms of being a quasi legal courthouse drama, especially in the wake of the masterpiece that is Better Call Saul, where Kim Wexler is the real strong, independent female character and everything that Jen wishes she could be.
Grimskul wrote: I'm no AllyMcBeal fan, but I gotta agree with HBMC where I really struggle to see how it's strong on the latter two fronts. Not enough quality action scenes that emphasize the "super" part of being a superhero (so far all she's done is one-up people like the Hulk, or basically completely overpower whoever she's fighting within minutes, like Titania or the Wrecking Crew, who are effectively non-threats and boring to watch) or development on She-Hulk to really get invested in terms of her character, where right now she's basically always right and can do no wrong. There's also no real sense of tension because there's no overarching, or engaging villain that has been introduced yet for her to contend with (I guess dumb bossy males are what that's being counted as that right now? Oh joy) so we don't have that. And then the metajokes are...just kinda there? Unlike Deadpool where I feel there were interspersed in a way that flowed well with the overall story, I feel that hers just kinda is slotted in because it has to be. It isn't even good in terms of being a quasi legal courthouse drama, especially in the wake of the masterpiece that is Better Call Saul, where Kim Wexler is the real strong, independent female character and everything that Jen wishes she could be.
As Jen has insisted?
She’s Not A Super Hero. She’s a lawyer who happens to also be a Hulk. She’s not moving to be a hero so far as we’ve seen, but focussing on being Attorney At Law.
It’s kind of a pastiche. A potential Super Hero just….living a normal life, dealing with mundane things, like work and love life. That’s the joke. That’s the nature of the show.
Voss wrote: Fans of Ally McBeal and superheroes. And meta-jokes.
I like all three of those.
This show isn't hitting those notes.
You'll learn pretty quick that this show is without fault, no matter how many faults you find. It is like Jen: Special, perfect, and unbeatable simply by virtue of showing up.
Grimskul wrote: I'm no AllyMcBeal fan, but I gotta agree with HBMC where I really struggle to see how it's strong on the latter two fronts. Not enough quality action scenes that emphasize the "super" part of being a superhero (so far all she's done is one-up people like the Hulk, or basically completely overpower whoever she's fighting within minutes, like Titania or the Wrecking Crew, who are effectively non-threats and boring to watch) or development on She-Hulk to really get invested in terms of her character, where right now she's basically always right and can do no wrong. There's also no real sense of tension because there's no overarching, or engaging villain that has been introduced yet for her to contend with (I guess dumb bossy males are what that's being counted as that right now? Oh joy) so we don't have that. And then the metajokes are...just kinda there? Unlike Deadpool where I feel there were interspersed in a way that flowed well with the overall story, I feel that hers just kinda is slotted in because it has to be. It isn't even good in terms of being a quasi legal courthouse drama, especially in the wake of the masterpiece that is Better Call Saul, where Kim Wexler is the real strong, independent female character and everything that Jen wishes she could be.
As Jen has insisted?
She’s Not A Super Hero. She’s a lawyer who happens to also be a Hulk. She’s not moving to be a hero so far as we’ve seen, but focussing on being Attorney At Law.
It’s kind of a pastiche. A potential Super Hero just….living a normal life, dealing with mundane things, like work and love life. That’s the joke. That’s the nature of the show.
That was my problem with this last episode. Why did Wong call her in for help fighting the demons? Like repeatedly making a specific effort to get Her. She’s not a hero, she doesn’t have fighting experience, definitely not experience with other worldly stuff like that. He should have been calling Strange or any of the veritable army of sorcerers under him trained to deal with exactly that sort of situation. Then call Jen when it was done for the legal stuff.
Grimskul wrote: I'm no AllyMcBeal fan, but I gotta agree with HBMC where I really struggle to see how it's strong on the latter two fronts. Not enough quality action scenes that emphasize the "super" part of being a superhero (so far all she's done is one-up people like the Hulk, or basically completely overpower whoever she's fighting within minutes, like Titania or the Wrecking Crew, who are effectively non-threats and boring to watch) or development on She-Hulk to really get invested in terms of her character, where right now she's basically always right and can do no wrong. There's also no real sense of tension because there's no overarching, or engaging villain that has been introduced yet for her to contend with (I guess dumb bossy males are what that's being counted as that right now? Oh joy) so we don't have that. And then the metajokes are...just kinda there? Unlike Deadpool where I feel there were interspersed in a way that flowed well with the overall story, I feel that hers just kinda is slotted in because it has to be. It isn't even good in terms of being a quasi legal courthouse drama, especially in the wake of the masterpiece that is Better Call Saul, where Kim Wexler is the real strong, independent female character and everything that Jen wishes she could be.
As Jen has insisted?
She’s Not A Super Hero. She’s a lawyer who happens to also be a Hulk. She’s not moving to be a hero so far as we’ve seen, but focussing on being Attorney At Law.
It’s kind of a pastiche. A potential Super Hero just….living a normal life, dealing with mundane things, like work and love life. That’s the joke. That’s the nature of the show.
That was my problem with this last episode. Why did Wong call her in for help fighting the demons? Like repeatedly making a specific effort to get Her. She’s not a hero, she doesn’t have fighting experience, definitely not experience with other worldly stuff like that. He should have been calling Strange or any of the veritable army of sorcerers under him trained to deal with exactly that sort of situation. Then call Jen when it was done for the legal stuff.
Because she wasn't just there for the fight. She was there to help move his case forward and stop this crap from happening again.
Voss wrote: Fans of Ally McBeal and superheroes. And meta-jokes.
I like all three of those.
This show isn't hitting those notes.
Ok... I don't really agree. I think its somewhat plodding because its trying to hit those notes so hard and precisely, and not enough time just breathing and doing its own thing.
But a lot of that is the D+ format. One of my biggest issues with the D+ shows so far seem to feel they have to 'speedrun' to a goal (which turns out to be not all that interesting), and forget the show itself should be the interesting bit.
You'll learn pretty quick that this show is without fault, no matter how many faults you find. It is like Jen: Special, perfect, and unbeatable simply by virtue of showing up.
This is an amazingly terrible take, given how much time the show devotes to her flaws and insecurities, and how much criticism the show is getting.
This was my favorite episode by a long shot. One of the best of the whole Marvel TV line, personally. Far more in line with what I was hoping from the show compared to the previous setup material. Actually felt like it took advantage of the short form storytelling rather than being a chunk of a movie edited for television.
I agree that it feels a bit like a speedrun through the various tropes of the “single female lawyer” show. The result is that Jen feels like the weakest-developed character, and most of the fun comes from everyone else around her. I’d love to see more of her slice-of-life stuff that didn’t focus on scummy coworkers or bad dates, because those feel
Like the most cookie cutter aspects of the show. Her interactions with her assistant, with Wong, with the media, and in the courtroom have all been great. The action scenes…less is more.
I've enjoyed it so far. Not my favorite thing ever by any stretch but is an amusing little romp. I think keeping it brisk at roughly 30 minute episodes is good as trying to do a bunch of one hour episodes would make it tiring really quickly.
Would anyone else watch an episode of Wong and Madisynn just hanging out in Kamar-Tarj?
Another mostly harmless week of hi-jinx, although slightly worried I can't remember stuff from last week but I knew which Soprano's episode Wong was watching even before Maddy spoiled it
Automatically Appended Next Post: Slightly misunderstood what this was, thought it was a new D+ show, but is actually a series of YouTube shorts to promote the new game. I'll leave it up though, as I guess it's technically still a new show?
Nico? Took me a minute to even remember who she was, from the Runaways show (and, presumably, the comic). Seems an odd get compared to the rest of the bigger name characters on display.
Very brief callback to Thor Love and Thunder, now that its on D+
Utterly wretched. Probably one of the worst movies I've seen this century, down there with Twilight and 300. Doesn't it make the heady heights of the first Suicide Squad. Just an utter jumble of confused tone, dog crap, bad jokes and incoherent cosmology. Don't know how the actors made it through the takes.
Thunderbolts lineup, spoilered for size (or if you really don't want to know who's in it for some reason.)
Spoiler:
Surprised to see Bucky on the Team, given that he doesn't seem to be looking for a team to join so it'll be interesting to see what context is involved for him to be recruited.
The real question is what kind of antagonist they're going to be set up to face. Ideally they learn from DC's failings with Suicide Squad and have something less world ending they need to focus on.
I’m not immediately recognizing the one on the far left, who is that?
Secret Invasion does look suitably “Winter Soldier”ish indeed. Some great tid bits shown there. Werewolf looks super B Movie shlocky, I’m digging it. The glimpse of Man Thing is pretty cool as well.
Azreal13 wrote: That's the JLD character, Madame Consuela Von Bananahammock or whatever she's called.
Yeah, basically their version of Discount Nick Fury for gathering a team, the same one who approached John Walker to become US Agent at the very end of Falcon and Winter Soldier.
Can't say I'm thrilled by the Thunderbolt lineup. Nice to see Ghost back, but Yelena, Red Guardian and Taskmaster? How many reminders of that God-awful Black Widow film do we need? I wonder if Red Guardian will just be useless all film like he was in BW? And what they did with Taskmaster in that film was criminal; the MCU equivalent of what they did to Deadpool in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Why would we ever want more of that version of the character?
Secret Invasion looks intense, but could just as well be another set of six sub-30 minute episodes that laboriously string together 3 acts worth of of plot in a way that ends mid-scene in most episodes to create artificial "cliffhangers" like a lot of the D+ series. Still, more Sam Jackson, and more Don Cheadle, so that's good.
And on the subject of Don Cheadle, good to see them reconfirming that Armor Wars is a thing. Sweet new logo.
All said though, this was a piss-weak presentation. Last D23 was announcement after announcement after announcement. This time it was "Here's a bunch of stuff you already know about, plus a couple of small things.".
Given the bombs a lot of us were expecting, this is pretty tame overall. I mean, F4 cast was a sure thing... until it wasn't. :(
Yeah, overall this was not the big follow-up to Comic-Con that a lot of people were expecting. But hey, the Leader's coming back, so yay!
Of course, Twitter is going into meltdown because Marvel has the temerity to include an Israeli super-hero in the new Cap film.
Well, since it seems that they're going with established characters in the MCU, who else could they use that's already appeared in a film or television show?
This Taskmaster exists and shes going to get some screen time and be fleshed out. Its going to be cool seeing her free from the Red Rooms control doing her own merc thing.
Yeah I’m really surprised Abomination isn’t on the team, especially with his recent She Hulk appearance.
Taskmaster was definitely the worst part of a Black Widow, a serious character assassination. Hopefully without the mind control they’re less silent drone? It’s not really Red Guardians fault he was made a fool, they had him fight a girl and dudes aren’t generally allowed to win fights vs girls in the MCU.
That and Red Guardian hadn’t been on active duty in a long, long time. Super Soldier or not, you’re gonna get Ring Rust.
This time around? We can reasonably infer from the group shot he’ll have at least sparred with Task Master, letting him dust off and polish up his skills.
Plus with US Agent and Bucky, I reckon we can look forward to more claim he beat up Captain America, and thanks to Falcon Soldier, we’ll likely find out exactly which Cap.
I’m guessing it’s not our Skrull friends we know, but rather a separate faction of them invading. Definitely Skrull related though given you see one in the trailer, and we hear the voice of our friend one talking to Fury. Although given the MCU’s history with trailer manipulations and the like, I wouldn’t put it past them to have it be a different invading force be revealed in the third, maybe forth episode after the let us assume it was the Skrulls for the first act.
I’m more than ok with Taskmaster and Red Guardian. Ghost however was a complete waste of writing and screen time. I was disappointed that the character was still alive at the end of AatW.
I read quite a few of the ‘70’s Marvel horror comics (or at least the British reprints) so I’m glad to see them return in some form. (J. Jonah Jaimson’s so is a werewolf I seem to remember).
AduroT wrote: Yeah I’m really surprised Abomination isn’t on the team, especially with his recent She Hulk appearance.
Which is most likely why he's not on the team as it seems that (with the exception of Bucky) they're going for those who haven't been in a Disney+ show as of yet.
Utterly baseless speculation, but given Thunderbolts follows very shortly after Cap 4, I wonder if there's a mini End Game/Infinity War in the offing, where Sam will end New World Order in some sort of dire straits, and the reason Bucky is there is because he's leading the team in a near certain suicide mission to rescue his friend and the symbol that is Capt America?
AduroT wrote: Ylena was in Hawkeye, both Bucky and USAgent were in Winterfalcon. Boss lady had a cameo in both. Thats over half the team.
I guess I should have more appropriately said that they're using characters that have not been featured in multiple Marvel projects (wasn't Yelena's role in Hawkeye just a cameo basically?).
AduroT wrote: Had another glaring omission pointed out, Zemo.
Yeah, that was the big one for me. Shocked he's not on the team.
Abomination I'm so so on. He probably would be interesting there, but it depends on what they're up against. Being able to transform at will would definitely make him more fun in the role, but we'll see.
It's definitely looking most like Black Widow 2. I liked Black Widow more than I thought I would, though Taskmaster was a huge letdown as was Ghost. Yelena stole the show, so seeing her and Bucky front and center gives this promise. Red Guardian was fun and memey and why he's on the other flank, but that's the spot I feel Zemo would have fit best. Overall, I'm not unhappy about it, but it's likely to be enjoyable but forgettable.
AduroT wrote: I’m guessing it’s not our Skrull friends we know, but rather a separate faction of them invading. Definitely Skrull related though given you see one in the trailer, and we hear the voice of our friend one talking to Fury.
Given Talos had a relative prominence in the trailer, my theory is that the opposing force of skrulls is led by his daughter, who might be taking the place of the Skrull Queen from the comics.
If I remember right she was... Significantly less chill than him in Captain Marvel.
Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem when you have an ensemble cast that has too much overlap for skillsets. I feel it's largely for budgetary reasons since they've already worked their VFX teams to the bone.
AduroT wrote: From what I’ve heard that vfx team is outright abused.
Wouldn't surprise me. In their attempts to pump out the content to stretch out people's subscriptions to D+, they've definitely given them no time to do anything but have deadline after deadline.
AduroT wrote: From what I’ve heard that vfx team is outright abused.
Which VFX team? Most of these productions use multiple teams, usually stemming from one larger company contracted to do the work who then go on to sub-contract to many others.
I finally got around to Love & Thunder and.... definitely not the strongest MCU outing. The first hour of the film really didn't work for me at all. Even after coming to enjoy some of the poorly timed jokes of Ragnarok, this one really lacks chemistry in its opening act. While it was always clear the Guardians were going to be a quick cameo, the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here. Sif's scene really kills Gor's otherwise excellent setup and the jilted weapons gets taken way too far. All in all, I had a solid hour of the movie not working for me at all.
The second half worked better. Basically when they reach Zeus things greatly improved. Bale did a fantastic job and really deserved significantly more screen time. He's creepy, the powers look really cool, he's well motivated and his ultimate fate ties together the movie's themes really well. He does a great job holding the film together despite feeling like he's in the wrong movie altogether.
That said, the Thor's work better as the movie goes on. I don't think either of them get the strongest material to work with, but Portman eventually works as the awkward but eager newbie; I just think its a shame that the movie can't quite settle on what drives her, leaving the rather heartbreaking arc of acceptance kind of unfocused.
So... yeah. Mixed bag at best. I don't hate it, but mostly a miss for me. I feel like the script really suffers trying to filter things through Thor's POV and would have really benefitted from giving Portman more focus, particularly early on. The back half did a good job salvaging things, but a bit of a flop for me to be honest.
I feel like there's two movies fighting for dominance. There's the quite sombre movie about duty and fate and acceptance and the oh so popular Marvel theme of the responsibility of power, and then there's a knockabout comedy with a level of humour barely above poop jokes.
Feels a little like Waititi is a one trick pony at this point, and can't even perform that trick consistently well.
Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem when you have an ensemble cast that has too much overlap for skillsets. I feel it's largely for budgetary reasons since they've already worked their VFX teams to the bone.
They have overlapping skill sets, but not overlapping personalities. I’m hoping the show is mostly them bouncing off each other while trying to work together. The lower the stakes, the better.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I saw a discussion in which someone mentioned something I agree with with Love and Thunders.
The tonal shift is because a story being told to us by Korg.
Love and Thunder isn't a movie we are watching in real time for the most part. It's a story Korg is telling children. Thats why it opens with Korgs narration and has goofy things like Thor jumping on Stormbreaker like a broomstick and flying off.
You will notice that the goofy tones down a lot and Thor becomes more like his other movie appearances when Korg is in the room and he isn't telling the story second hand (Being in the God Head to meet Zeus). The rest of the time when Korg isn't around he is relaying events second hand and the campy goofiness ramps up as he relays events that he didn't witness.
I mean.... kind of? Korg isn't around for either of the big fights with Gor and they are largely played pretty straight. It's not a bad take, but its not applied with enough consistency to work the way that it does for something like the Princess Bride. I do suspect that's the intention in a lot of scenes, but it doesn't feel like the whole movie was filmed around the idea even if it might have been written that way.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I suspect the proof will be in the pudding. I mean, what are they to be used for? What’s their preferred mission profile etc?
LunarSol wrote: I mean.... kind of? Korg isn't around for either of the big fights with Gor and they are largely played pretty straight. It's not a bad take, but its not applied with enough consistency to work the way that it does for something like the Princess Bride. I do suspect that's the intention in a lot of scenes, but it doesn't feel like the whole movie was filmed around the idea even if it might have been written that way.
Yeah I agree, though that could be Korg having a sense of gravitas in his story telling and knowing when the important dramatic moments are. But the movie is (Outside of Gorr's origin which is handled entirely seriously) book ended with Korg narrating and the end Narration is so far in the future that he has regrown his body and met Doug. So at some point after that he gathers round the children and tell them the "Tale of the Space Viking". Which is why, especially the beginning bits with the Guardians and him losing weight, and all his friends dying are glossed over so quickly and goofily. It's all preamble to the story of him and Jane and Gorr leading to Love and Thunder. It even explains why Gorr doesn't get as much presence as he would have in a different kind of movie. Because the story isn't really about him. So the rest of what he does is just kind of... not told.
I am not defending this as good or bad. I am just saying that this is probably what it actually is. And a re-watch with that context gives it a certain context that may be more or less to anyones liking.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I’m a fan of the MCU, but I don’t see that much of an issue with them all having the same powers and not a on eclectic group of complimentary powers. So long as the focus isn’t strictly punch-fights, their personalities and this approaches to problem solving should be different enough to be entertaining.
I mean, in DBZ they pretty much all have the same powers with a few minor variations, and that series was great all the way to the end of the Cell Saga. As long as the story and characters are interesting, it shouldn’t be an issue.
The approach to problem solving is: everyone punches, guns don't work. Ghost goes and solves it. Twist is, she can't at the end, so <whoever has a show next> does.
As the oldest (in non-frozen years), Russian Steve Rogers dies along the way. Is very sad. Possible twist is he actually doesn't, and later, imitation Steve Rogers dies instead. Dramatic scene with Sam & Bucky in the end credits where they mourn not working with the guy, for bonus pathos.
This Thunderbolts lineup reminds me of Netflix's Defenders. They also were a team comprised of people with similar power sets/fighting styles, so... I'm sure Thunderbolts will be great....
One of the crimes of Love & Thunder was wasting Gorr. He has that fine introduction and then doesn't show up again for 40ish minutes and we're told he has been doing awful things instead of seeing them.
Telling not showing is poor visual storytelling. Imagine CA: Winter Soldier where we are just told Bucky outran Cap and attacked Nick Fury but didn't get to see any of it.
LunarSol wrote: ... the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here.
Along with everything that made Thor Thor being absent as well.
Seriously, this movie just flat out ignores 6 films worth of character development. Hell, I'd even go so far as to call it a regression of the character.
LunarSol wrote: ... the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here.
Along with everything that made Thor Thor being absent as well.
Seriously, this movie just flat out ignores 6 films worth of character development. Hell, I'd even go so far as to call it a regression of the character.
It's really sad that I currently enjoy the MCU most from Honest Trailer and Pitch Meeting videos than anything else they've put out in the post-Endgame era besides maybe the Spider Man movie.
We all enjoyed Love and Thunder. Might help that none of us are very invested in his character growth. A fun, mid-tier MCU movie for us.
And we’re still enjoying the MCU, so maybe it’s more “for us”. I’d like to keep the heavy or dark MCU movies to a minimum, not least so they don’t lose their impact. Another Eternals-Black Widow pair in one year and we might as well be watching the DCEU.
I just keep wondering why posters who raved about the Snyder Cut keep popping up to say the MCU has lost its way…..
On top of that, we know from Thrones that the wolves were backseated because they cost a fortune, no reason to think those goats were any cheaper.
So not only did he take what I'll charitably call a stale joke and hit people over the head with it, he likely spent a fortune doing it.
Talking of Gunn, did anyone else see the coverage a little while ago? He was apparently asked about his pet hates and one of his picks was "unprepared directors" and while no names were named, consensus seems to be shade was being thrown Waititi's direction.
I did laugh when they introduced the screaming goats. I had stopped laughing at them well before they made their final appearance. Hopefully with no more Taika we also get no more Korg.
