In memory of Kogwar's very successful thread, I have been given permission to recreate it.

How to play: Post a unit to beat the last unit posted, this unit should follow the rules of Warhammer 40k and it has to be somewhat close to the point cost of the previous unit posted, preferably less.

The Rules:
-No orbital Strikes
-No Apocalypse units.
-Units can compose of 1-5 squads of the same unit, no more.
-try your best to keep the point value of your units under 1500; with no Apocalypse, this shouldn't be a problem.
-You must post the point value along with a unit.
-I may reset the unit if things get out of hand.
-Units may be taken with their Deticated Transports, with the exception of Land Raiders (land raiders may still be used, just not with another unit)
-Guardsman Marbo may no longer be posted, he's great I know, but he's coming up too often.

-Tau Broadsides and Space Marine Land Raiders are not banned, but highly discouraged.

There is no rule regarding vehicle armor rating.

I'll start.

10 Man Tactical Squad with Meltagun and Missile Launcher - 180

Simples

9 CSM in a Rhino, 1 flamer and IoCG . 185

20 Ork Boyz 2 W/ Rokkit Launcha, Nob with PK and Bosspole - 181

5x PAGKs with justicar (6 model total), 1 incinerator, 1 psycannon, justicar has psycannon bolts and auspex- 222 points

S_P

guardsman Marbo - 65 points

Since this really isn't tactics, I'm moving this to 40k General Discussion.

30 Death Company w/JP twin-Thunderhammers 2850pts

Dedrith wrote:

How to play: Post a unit to beat the last unit posted, this unit should follow the rules of Warhammer 40k and it has to be somewhat close to the point cost of the previous unit posted, preferably less.

jbunny wrote:30 Death Company w/JP twin-Thunderhammers 2850pts

fail :(

Honersstodnt wrote:

Dedrith wrote:

How to play: Post a unit to beat the last unit posted, this unit should follow the rules of Warhammer 40k and it has to be somewhat close to the point cost of the previous unit posted, preferably less.

jbunny wrote:30 Death Company w/JP twin-Thunderhammers 2850pts

fail :(

I would agree, Please follow the rules of the thread.

Please exclude jbunny's post from the discussion and continue from Guardsman Marbo.

Also, I would argue that this thread has quite a bit to do with tactics, but it doesn't really matter to me. I'm sure the thread will do fine in General Discussion.

Ailaros wrote:guardsman Marbo - 65 points

Touche, Ailaros.
You win this round.....

S_P

ok if you guys are going to do this keep it small and also please stay to three units at a time and it was broken last time and yes i am looking at you 30 man death comp unit.
techmarine: 70

hmmm...Iron priest with bike 85 points

Farseer with mindwar, 75pts

Scout sentinel with multilaser 35pts

SM Attack bike with multimelta 50pts

Farseer with Mind War 75pts

Predator with autocannon 60pts

SM Captain with Melta bombs and combimelta on a bike - 145 pts

Lord with MoS and Daemon weapon - 135 pts

Platoon Command Squad with 4 melta guns - 70 points

Lone Wolf with TH/SS (codex not to hand)

Ratlings w/Sniper Rifles 30pts

5 Ork Kommandos - 50

I'm pretty sure Ratlings would beat kommandos in a shooting contest.

I'm pretty sure Ratlings would fail to beat a deep striking 2 W Terminator armed Lone Wolf with a 3++ save.

14 month old toddler, free.

but seriously....

5 man Sterngaurd, heavy flamer, 2 combi meltas, 145pts

Ed_Bodger wrote:I'm pretty sure Ratlings would fail to beat a deep striking 2 W Terminator armed Lone Wolf with a 3++ save.

ah forgot about the 3++ from the Stormshield. Otherwise the rending from the snipers would have taken care of it.

But what does "beat" mean? That was never stated. Does it mean list a unit with fewer points, or the unit would beat the previous unit in a game against each other? Pretty damn subjective if you ask me.

It sems fairly simple to me post a unit you would use to beat the last one listed. As in to kill it in a game

Baal Predator with that firestorm cannon and a Drednaugth with CC loadout.

Anshal wrote:Baal Predator with that firestorm cannon and a Drednaugth with CC loadout.

points? and its unit.... not units.

NoShoes wrote:I'm pretty sure Ratlings would beat kommandos in a shooting contest.

Who says I would be shooting at you? I would infiltrate and assault you. considering you would be shooting me before I assault, I would only need 1 Kommando left to kill the ratlings.

anyway, back on topic.

hcordes wrote:14 month old toddler, free.

but seriously....

5 man Sterngaurd, heavy flamer, 2 combi meltas, 145pts

20 Ork boyz, Nob W/ PK, bosspole. - 160

Dedrith wrote:

20 Ork boyz, Nob W/ PK, bosspole. - 160

no wound allocation advantage with that ork unit...

10 man Dev Squad, 4 hvy bolters, 230pts

hcordes wrote:

no wound allocation advantage with that ork unit...

10 man Dev Squad, 4 hvy bolters, 230pts

5 Man deepstriking Assault Terminator Squad W/ lightning claws - 200

10 genestealers (acid maw +1) 170pts

Leman Russ Battle Tank, hull heavy flamer, Heavy bolter sponsons, 170 points.

Zoanthrope x2 120pts. (I think)

Better drop them in with a spore pod(35 pts), otherwise their range is too short.

Inquisitor, Mystics, three plasma warriors - 92

Dakka Predator- 85 pts.

5 man SM Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun and Melta Bombs in Drop pod - 135

The mother of all units, I actually play this exact unit in my army:

Marneus Calgar
10 man honor gaurd including company champion, company standard bearer, and Cassius (chaplain)
in a Land Raider Crusader
1170 points for one uber-unit!!!

Swing and a miss.

I'm starting to think this thread could be a viable form of intelligence testing.

Terminus wrote:Swing and a miss.

I'm starting to think this thread could be a viable form of intelligence testing.

No kidding..

sub-zero, Please read the rules. Next to post, Please ignore sub-zero's unit.

10 penial legion on the assault with thare rending rule active or counter attack with furious assault 80 points

10 ork boys, including a nob, nob has big choppa 75pts

i think you would win but if they had counter attack and furious assault which by the space wolves faq makes them inititive 4 strenth 3 wiht an extra attacked i would love to see that played out

Primaris Psyker, 70 pts

imperial guard platoon:

PCS (4 snipers)-50
4 troops w/ commissar-235
2 heavy bolter heavy weapon squads-150

total:435


i guess that is a bit over the points


so a closer point to it would be valkyrie w/ HB-110

2 Piranha w/ FB, DP, TA - 150 pts

Jumpin up a few points I can see, but a 50% jump seems to be kind of against the point of the thread....

@ Mistress of minis-Depends upon which unit they would be facing in the previous post, but if you want then this unit instead:

Crisis Shas'ui Monat w/ TL-FB, TA = 55pts

P.S. It was closer to a 40% increase

Aun Va something like 220... Dont Have codex soz...

Someone had to say this so:

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!

Will outflank you, sleep with your wife and then not pay child support for his illegitimately spawned offspring.

Veteran Squad
with Gunny Harker, grenade launcher, flamer, plasma gun 150pt

3 Land speeders with Heavy bolters. 150.

Wraithlord with Wraith blade, flamers and Shuriken Cannon
110

Vyper with EML, 65pts (assuming it started more than 24" away from the Wraithlord!)

Hydra- 75 pts

Wolf Scouts with meltagun - 110

3 Land Speeders, 3xAsslt cannon, 3 hvy bltrs, 270pts

Godhammer pattern landraider. 250 points

2 Broadsides with Targ Arrays-160 pts

SM Dreadnought W/ Assault cannon, drop pod - 165

Dedrith wrote:SM Dreadnought W/ Assault cannon, drop pod - 165

Two CSM Obliterators with 15pts in their back pockets.

EDIT: 150pt

Dedrith wrote:

Terminus wrote:Swing and a miss.

I'm starting to think this thread could be a viable form of intelligence testing.

No kidding..

sub-zero, Please read the rules. Next to post, Please ignore sub-zero's unit.

ooooookay...I read the rules before I made my initial post. Let's say that Marneus doesn't use his orbital strike, does the unit fall into your strick guidlines now?

sub-zero wrote:ooooookay...I read the rules before I made my initial post. Let's say that Marneus doesn't use his orbital strike, does the unit fall into your strick guidlines now?

He swings again! Strike two!

Tantras wrote:
Two CSM Obliterators with 15pts in their back pockets.
EDIT: 150pt

Marbo + SWS with 3 demo charges = 160 points

Terminus wrote:

Tantras wrote:
Two CSM Obliterators with 15pts in their back pockets.
EDIT: 150pt

Marbo + SWS with 3 demo charges = 160 points

Manticore... ~150pts ish.

sub-zero wrote:

ooooookay...I read the rules before I made my initial post. Let's say that Marneus doesn't use his orbital strike, does the unit fall into your strick guidlines now?

You're still forgetting that your unit was 1035 points above that of the last unit posted. And if I recall correctly...

Dedrith wrote:and it has to be somewhat close to the point cost of the previous unit posted, preferably less.

sub-zero wrote:The mother of all units, I actually play this exact unit in my army:

Marneus Calgar
10 man honor gaurd including company champion, company standard bearer, and Cassius (chaplain)
in a Land Raider Crusader
1170 points for one uber-unit!!!

The problem with this unit is that you used a 1170 point unit to kill a 150 man unit you broke the spirit of the rules.

sub-zero wrote:

Dedrith wrote:

Terminus wrote:Swing and a miss.

I'm starting to think this thread could be a viable form of intelligence testing.

No kidding..

sub-zero, Please read the rules. Next to post, Please ignore sub-zero's unit.

ooooookay...I read the rules before I made my initial post. Let's say that Marneus doesn't use his orbital strike, does the unit fall into your strick guidlines now?

No, go away.

Tantras wrote:

Terminus wrote:

Tantras wrote:
Two CSM Obliterators with 15pts in their back pockets.
EDIT: 150pt

Marbo + SWS with 3 demo charges = 160 points

Manticore... ~150pts ish.

Land Speeder
Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

Land Speeder
Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

Total: 70+70 = 140

+1 If you don't use hydras, or any multiple high strength shots.

vindicare assassin 110

20 Grotz and 2 Runtherds, 80 points. Can't head shot'em all.........

FlyDog wrote:20 Grotz and 2 Runtherds, 80 points. Can't head shot'em all.........

lol- he can pop the 2 runtherds and then pin the grots on thier 5 Ld (gretchin do not get Mob Rule )

Sentinel- heavy flamer- 40 pts.

Scouts with rocket launcher-90 points (i think, no codex)

EagleArk wrote:Scouts with rocket launcher-90 points (i think, no codex)

85pts actuauly
hmmmm SM 5 man assault squad 100pts

Ork Warboss in Mega armor- 100 pts

SM dreadnought - 105 points

Chaos Predator with sync. Laska - 110 points

Larendard wrote:Chaos Predator with sync. Laska - 110 points

7 Screamers of Tzeentch - 112pts (IIRC)

Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Sanctuary and a bolt pistol - 35pts

Rube wrote:Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Sanctuary and a bolt pistol - 35pts

3 Ratling Snipers - 30pts.

3 Ratling Snipers - 30pts

SM landspeeder 50pts

1 Hive Guard - 50pts.

SM pred with autocannon 60pts

Flying Pooo wrote:SM pred with autocannon 60pts

Zoanthrope - 60pts

5 SM scouts with sniper rifles 75pts

Hereticus inquisitor with null rod and power armor = 50pts

edit - that was against the Zoanthrope, ignore it!

Flying Pooo wrote:5 SM scouts with sniper rifles 75pts

EDIT: Need to think, my last post was madness. This is very distracting when working, hahah

Flying Pooo wrote:5 SM scouts with sniper rifles 75pts

5 Ork Kommandos Nob W/ Bosspole, Big Choppa - 70 pts

Dedrith wrote:

Flying Pooo wrote:5 SM scouts with sniper rifles 75pts

5 Ork Kommandos Nob W/ Bosspole, Big Choppa - 70 pts

2 KillaKans - 70pts

1 Scout Sentinel with Lascannon, 50pts

Kiting, of course!

Rube wrote:1 Scout Sentinel with Lascannon, 50pts

Kiting, of course!

5 Lootas - 75pts

6 Ripper Swarms with deepstrike upgrade, 72pts

Marbo - 65pts.

sentinel w/ heavy flamer - 35 points

Sentinel w/ Multilaser

Lone Wolf w/ TH/SS, terminator armor, two wolves.

No points, srry, its not over 200

Karon wrote:Lone Wolf w/ TH/SS, terminator armor, two wolves.

No points, srry, its not over 200

Yessssss.... nor is it anywhere near 35pts...

Big mek with shokk attack gun, in a building > 88pts (ammo runt so you dont blow yerself up)

Vindicare Assassin - 110pts

This could go on forever.... totally worth it though

S_P

a bomb squig completly convinced you are a tank-10pts

One guardsman left over from a line squad, 12" away.

SM Attack bike with heavy bolter 40pts

Flying Pooo wrote:SM Attack bike with heavy bolter 40pts

warbuggie with twin linked rokkit launcha 35 points

Sentinel with multilaser. 35pts.

XV8 w/miss,tl-fl=43pts

Ork boyz mob - 10 boys, Pk nob - 95pts, methinks

S_P

Space_Potato wrote:Ork boyz mob - 10 boys, Pk nob - 95pts, methinks

S_P

How is a mob of boyz on foot ever gonna get close to a single XV-8 that has a 48" range with its missle pod?

Also, 43 vs. 95 points is a quite a big difference. The great intelligence test that is this thread continues, and now sub-zero has more company in the genius gallery.


My response to the XV8 is Marbo @65 points.

5 Ork Kommandos Nob W/ Pk - 85 points

Also, rules updated, Marbo can no longer be posted, he’s making things repetitive. If things get repetitive, this thread gets locked. It's happened before.

I agree that was one of the main problems on the old one

Dedrith wrote:5 Ork Kommandos Nob W/ Pk - 85 points

3 Reaver Jetbikes, 75pts

I am fond of kiting

Landspeeder-2 heavy bolters-60 pts

Hive Guard - 50pts.

Biovore, 45pts

Resisting temptation to put scout sentinel again there...

Terminus wrote:Also, 43 vs. 95 points is a quite a big difference

Fair enough, point taken, I just typed it in going "it's only 50 points", now i realise that it's double the previous.

Mah baaaad.

Anyways, Killa kan with big shoota (advancing through cover of course ) 40-45 pts, I forget

S_P

Space_Potato wrote:
Anyways, Killa kan with big shoota (advancing through cover of course ) 40-45 pts, I forget

S_P

5 lootas - 75 (sorry about minor point hike)

Libarian (avenger, smite)-100

Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Null Rod and Stormbolter, 50pts

Sorry, reusing same gimmick

Rube wrote:Biovore, 45pts

Resisting temptation to put scout sentinel again there...

Umm... wouldn't a Hive Guard kill either of those easily?

ork warboss with big choppa 65pts

Zoanthrope - 60pts

(I now see why this game comes to an end).

Pedro Kantor 175 pts (Not using orbital strike)

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Pedro Kantor 175 pts (Not using orbital strike)

That's nearly three times the points, mate. Did you read the opening post?

(to the zoanthrope) Warboss on bike- about 90 points.

Space_Potato wrote:

Terminus wrote:Also, 43 vs. 95 points is a quite a big difference

Fair enough, point taken, I just typed it in going "it's only 50 points", now i realise that it's double the previous.

Mah baaaad.

S_P

Don't mind me, I made the mistake of spending about 10 minutes reading the Star Wars Old Republic forums, and I think I transformed into some monstrous troll creature filled with hatred for all life for a few hours (tries to find the old Penny Arcade comic that illustrates this... fails). Well, more hatred than usual.

EagleArk wrote:(to the zoanthrope) Warboss on bike- about 90 points.

Librarian - 100. Swing first, make a single wound, psychic test, splat. Make it a Rune Priest with Wolf Tooth Necklace for 110 to make the hitting part easier.

Necron Lord w/ warscythe

Tantras wrote:

Rube wrote:Biovore, 45pts

Resisting temptation to put scout sentinel again there...

Umm... wouldn't a Hive Guard kill either of those easily?

Biovore has a 48" gun can it can fire on the move. It can kite the Hive Guard. The Hive Guard might catch up to it eventually by running, but it's only got two wounds... Same deal with the scout sentinel.

Kurgash wrote:Necron Lord w/ warscythe

Chaos Lord (Undivided) with Daemon Weapon - 115pts.

3x Dark Eldar Hellions, 54pts (they move 12" and can fire 24" ;P )

Isn't a Chaos Lord w/ Daemon Weapon 130pts anyway?

Rube wrote:3x Dark Eldar Hellions, 54pts (they move 12" and can fire 24" ;P )

Isn't a Chaos Lord w/ Daemon Weapon 130pts anyway?

*ahem* Yes... yes it is... you passed the test

Rube wrote:3x Dark Eldar Hellions, 54pts (they move 12" and can fire 24" ;P )

3 Ork warbikes - 75pts (most fast, dakka good, chop good)

If you hadn't noticed, I only have the Ork and Daemonhunters codices

S_P

Hydra - 75 points

5 Kommandos Nob W/ PK - 85

Those Kommandos couldn't beat a Hydra! They infiltrate more than 18" on their turn, can't reach it in assault. On the Hydras' turn it moves at full speed out of range, on following turns it kites them with it's 72" range AP4 gun.

At give the Hydra kill to a single Broadside, 70pts. 72" range gun, S10, 2+ armor save and 2 wounds!

SW Rune Priest with Living Lightning (stays out of range), and Stormcaller just in case

DEATH89 wrote:SW Rune Priest with Living Lightning (stays out of range), and Stormcaller just in case

points?

100pts. Haha, ultimate kiting too, nice! I'm not even sure the boards I play on are physically bigger than 72"...

Yeah. Sorry my boss came in and I had to think fast

DEATH89 wrote:SW Rune Priest with Living Lightning (stays out of range), and Stormcaller just in case

5x Space Marines in drop pod - 1 W/ Multi-Melta - 135

I don't know the exact stats and rules of the Rune Priest, but this should get the job done.

Yeah, multimelta to face will do it!

4x Pariahs, 144pts

Rube wrote:4x Pariahs, 144pts

Ork boyz mob - 15 boys, Pk nob - 125pts, methinks

S_P

Vindicator - 125pts

vendetta - 130pts

Predator with TL lascannons about 80 points, i think.

no way a pred would beat a vendetta

3 out flanking/scout moving turbo boosting twin linked lascannons
against 1 twin linked lascannon
the vendetta has it with ease

Honestly, the thing fell apart when someone dropped 5 marines with a multi-melta. Not only is that configuration illegal, and wouldn't be able to fire upon entering the board, I have my doubts they could handle a Runepriest on their own.

Anyway... countering the vendetta with an Exterminator - 150 points. It would depend on how many lascannons the vendetta would be able to fire upon entering the board, and whether it could crack AV13/14 with smoke before retaliation. Close fight!

Terminus wrote:Honestly, the thing fell apart when someone dropped 5 marines with a multi-melta. Not only is that configuration illegal, and wouldn't be able to fire upon entering the board, I have my doubts they could handle a Runepriest on their own.

Anyway... countering the vendetta with an Exterminator - 150 points. It would depend on how many lascannons the vendetta would be able to fire upon entering the board, and whether it could crack AV13/14 with smoke before retaliation. Close fight!

I see you sir, and raise you two obliterators - 150 points. Deep strike next to it, two multimeltas or two twin linked melta guns into its side/rear and its toast.

Callidus assassin (close fight, granted) - 120pts

Inquisitor, 2 Mystics, three plasma veterans - 92 points. Come on, deep strike, I dare ya.

Terminus wrote:Honestly, the thing fell apart when someone dropped 5 marines with a multi-melta. Not only is that configuration illegal, and wouldn't be able to fire upon entering the board, I have my doubts they could handle a Runepriest on their own.

It isn't illegal. Black Templars could do it with a tactical squad for 120pts, or the vanilla codex could do it with a Devastator squad for 140pts. He didn't say what the squad was, just that they were Space Marines!

They can't fire when they land, but they don't need to. Deepstrike just over 12" away, so the Rune Priest can't assault or run out of range. Frag him the following turn!

Of course, it's dependant on the multimelta hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+, and then getting past a 5+ cover save, and the deepstrike not scattering too far, but I'd hardly say that's beyond the realm of possibility!

A 6 man long fangs squad with 5 heavy bolters, 115 points.

DEATH89 wrote:A 6 man long fangs squad with 5 heavy bolters, 115 points.

7 lootas 105 points. Would take a long time for the lootas to kill the long fangs but the heavy bolters would be out of range (if the orks deploy second).

6 Bolter armed Death company, 120pts? Never faced lootas (only ork player I've faced didnt have any) so I dunno what they can do besides whats said on here

DEATH89 wrote:6 Bolter armed Death company, 120pts? Never faced lootas (only ork player I've faced didnt have any) so I dunno what they can do besides whats said on here

Lootas Have Deffguns (Range:36 S:7 AP:4 Heavy D3), other than that, there just orks.

I'll conter the death company with

15 Ork Boyz Nob W/ Pk, Bosspole - 130

to counter: 15 Ork Boyz Nob W/ Pk, Bosspole - 130

Dual auto-cannon dread (2 twin linked autocannons) 125 pts.

the dread can back up as it fires meaning at least 4 round of shooting before you charge (16 twin linked autocannon shots)

Dedrith wrote:15 Ork Boyz Nob W/ Pk, Bosspole - 130

Predator with turret twin-linked Lascannon and sponson H. Bolters, 130pts

edit; nm, ninajed

edit2; actually, that predator could take on the dread too ;p

Not bad, I'll counter with 8 Lootas - 120

8-24 S7 shots a turn fired at your dread.

Ehh i don't know lets do some math:

Those 8-24 shots (2/3) will miss so realistically:

3-8 Hits. Of those you need a 5 to hurt the dread so drop another 2/3:

1-3 Hits. Which case you seperate the glances & pens:

1.5 glance
1.5 pen
(Assuming best case of averages with no losses and that you shot first)

Where as at the same range the dreadnought will reliable hit 4 lootas and kill 4 lootas. (4 twin linked hits on 3's shots at Str7 AP4)

Edit: and you're only ld 7 as soon as you have to take a morale check from losses. i don't like those odds.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Ehh i don't know lets do some math:

Those 8-24 shots (2/3) will miss so realistically:

3-8 Hits. Of those you need a 5 to hurt the dread so drop another 2/3:

1-3 Hits. Which case you seperate the glances & pens:

1.5 glance
1.5 pen
(Assuming best case of averages with no losses and that you shot first)

Where as at the same range the dreadnought will reliable hit 4 lootas and kill 4 lootas. (4 twin linked hits on 3's shots at Str7 AP4)

Edit: and you're only ld 7 as soon as you have to take a morale check from losses. i don't like those odds.

You're forgetting, if I do shoot first, your probably not going to be able to shoot back next turn. or worse. I've had lootas deal with dreads before, granted it was 10 of them instead of 8. But the dread didn't give me any trouble at all.

Alright, so Vs lootas Ill go with a predator:
H. Bolter sponsons
Extra armor
100 points

Front armor (assume the commander is smart enough NOT to expose his flank to lootas) 13 means you need a 6 to glance, so BEST case averages you get 1.5 hits per turn, extra armor allows me to move is I can't shoot and possible tank-shock.

If I can shoot its 8 shots hitting on 3's (5-6 hits) wound on 2's (5 wounds) In one round.

I'll go for a Vindicator against those Lootas - 125pts.

I don't see the point in this, the Pred wasn't involved in the discussion. Lets get back to what this thread is designed for.

Edit: Thanks Tantras

Dedrith wrote:I don't see the point in this, the Pred wasn't involved in the discussion. Lets get back to what this thread is designed for.

I was conceding the lootas Vs the dred & countering the lootas with the pred.

Dreadnought Multimelta 110 points.

EagleArk wrote:Dreadnought Multimelta 110 points.

5 Eldar Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent-120ish

Dedrith wrote:5 Eldar Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent-120ish

That's 180pts with cheapest Wave Serpent load-out.

I don't recall Wave Serpents being 90 points.. I suppose I'll check it next time I have acess to a codex

100pts. You've got to buy a gun, cheapest is 10pts. The Fire Dragons are 16pts each, so 80pts for 5.

Heheh, this is a taxing game at times because everyone has opinions. Personally I'd side with a Vindicator over a Dreadnought with Multimelta. Effective range is on my side, also higher strength and my higher armour...

@ the melta dread

1 XV88 Broadside with a Targetting Array 80pts

Ork Big Mek - Warbike, Power klaw - 100pts

As long as the broadside doesn't smear him across the terrain with those big gunz

S_P

Daemonhost 85pts
Rolling Time-shift or Teleport would be best against the mobility of your bike. but if I was close enough any ability would do it.

Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Sanctuary and Psycannon 65pts

Granted It relies on him passing his psychic test once the 'host gets close but...

Armored Sentinel w/Missle Launcher 65 pts

Space marine assault squad, 4 men plus sergeant with melta bombs, 105 pts

5 Chaos Space Marine, upgrade one to Champion, Power weapon. 105 points

Space Marine Dreanought with dual twin linked Autocannons 125 pts

SM Dreadnought in Drop pod W/ Multi Melta - 140

Wraithlord with Brightlance - 130 pts

The autocannons would need 6's to wound, and the wraithlord still gets a 3+ save. Statistically you'd have to get 18 wounds from the autocannons to fail enough saves, meanwhile the wraithlord would only need 1 or 2 shots to score a penetrating hit.

EDIT: posted at the same time as the multimelta dreadnought, I think that would be a close call with a wraithlord.

EDIT 2: apparently it was posted way after...yay for not reading the very last page of the thread lol.

Archon
Agoniser
Splinter Pistol
Combat Drugs
Shadow Field

131pts of win

Dork Eldar wrote:Wraithlord with Brightlance - 130 pts

Not the best choice really- 'Wraithsight' rule means 1/6th of the time it will just sit there.

But- DE Raider Squad- 5 guys, Dark lance, blaster, Raider- dark lance, night shield. 125 pts

I'm not sure if yours would beat my Archon, I guess the radier is the win factor their, but!

for the life of me I can not think of anything to take out that squad lol.

A Warhound titan but that breaks some rules lol.

My DE squad was actually supposed to be vs the Wraithlord

Vs the Archon I would have went with a Splinter cannon to force more Shadow field saves til it failed.

And there are alot of counters to a DE squad that arent a warhound.

XV-8's, Devastators, Havocs, Dakka predator, IG vets all come to mind ^_^

8 scarabs with disruption fields, fly after you untill they get in range, you can't kill all of them with a unit that sucks that hard in combat, you cannot argue that 5 warriors don't suck in combat, I play DE, they lose to firewarriors

BIBBI wrote:8 scarabs with disruption fields, fly after you untill they get in range, you can't kill all of them with a unit that sucks that hard in combat, you cannot argue that 5 warriors don't suck in combat, I play DE, they lose to firewarriors

Points?

Scarabs are a close call- they move like jetbikes- so can turbo boost- and get an Inv save. And 16 pts each with the D-field.

They'll do glancing hits if they actually hit the raider- since they need 6's to hit.

And the lances & blaster will instant kill them.

But theyre fearless- so if they did hit the raider and immobilize it they could keep hitting/stunning so the guys on board couldnt shoot.

So, edge to the Scarabs- not having to make Difficult terrain checks and getting a +1 cover save makes them scary lil jet bike nuisances.

(But- DE are more than a match for Firewarriors- an 8 pt model vs a 12 pt model, better init, WS and BS. FW's got better armor and a better gun- but thats it.)

Mistress of minis wrote:My DE squad was actually supposed to be vs the Wraithlord

Vs the Archon I would have went with a Splinter cannon to force more Shadow field saves til it failed.

And there are alot of counters to a DE squad that arent a warhound.

XV-8's, Devastators, Havocs, Dakka predator, IG vets all come to mind ^_^

very true. I just wanted a warhound! :(

Slarg232 wrote:

BIBBI wrote:8 scarabs with disruption fields, fly after you untill they get in range, you can't kill all of them with a unit that sucks that hard in combat, you cannot argue that 5 warriors don't suck in combat, I play DE, they lose to firewarriors

Points?

128

8 scarabs with disruption fields

Veteran squad,Shotguns for all except 3 with Flamers and Grenadiers. 115pts

Mistress of minis wrote:

Dork Eldar wrote:Wraithlord with Brightlance - 130 pts

Not the best choice really- 'Wraithsight' rule means 1/6th of the time it will just sit there.

But- DE Raider Squad- 5 guys, Dark lance, blaster, Raider- dark lance, night shield. 125 pts

Aha, warwalkers to save the day!

2 of them, with scatter lasers, I would outflank, with 16 BS 3 S6 shots, not too shabby. At 36" range, minus 6" from nightshields, I should be able to reach you, and if after I destroy the raider you don't kill them with those guns, some lucky rolling will kill 2. The other will just sweep up the remaining warriors.

As for the total:

2 Warwalkers - 120 points
2 Scatter lasers each

@Dork Eldar
Autocannons need 5's to wound...

That DE squad was killed by scarabs up towards the top a ways, and then I took the Scarabs with my vets. . . granted your walkers still take the vets their just looking at the wrong squad.

The Doom of Malan'tai in Spore - 130

Eh, its dicey as to whether you'd come in on the same side of the board- so, if you did you'd have range and probly do ok. But warwalkers are BS3, which can be really underwhelming- figure 8 hits, of those only half will do anything. Scatter lasers are AP-, so theres a -1. and then factor in the 4+ save from zooming back & forth waitng for the outflank. That puts just 2 shots doing anything.

If ya come in on the wrong side- the raider is faster- so could manuever to make the most of the 6" sweet spot the night shield gives them. Warwalkers are jsut as fragile as the Raider is.

And why is everyone picking on my DE? They scarabs ate them already!

So, to counter:

Long Fangs- 1 squad leader, 3 fangs with missle launchers. Rhino. 125. Good multipurpose firepower- deploy into cover if facing tank busting units- or hide in the rhino if they cant pop it.

TLBS Warbuggies x3 - 90

Kroot Carnivore Squad
10 Kroot
Fast Reflexes
Shaper
Eviscerator
136pts

Noise Marines
5 Members
5 Sonic Blasters

125 points

Is the Doom not allowed?

yea he is perfectly allowed, my Kroot were in response to it. everything went all cwazy their for a second.


So as far as I can tell, the Noise Marines are the next up for a beating.

yup, Noiseys were meant to counter the kroot.

My war buggies were for the Doom :(

For the Noise
Battlewagon DR and two Big Shootas - 120

Vendetta 120pts.

Something with a long range las cannon. Really, anything. Maybe a dred, the whole twin linked thing going on.

Heavy Weapons Squad 3 Lascannons, 105 pts

Ork kommandos - 8 kommandos, 2 of which have burnas - 110pts

:EDIT:
Mis-spelled 'S_P'

S_P

5 Sternguard - 125pts

as many grots as you can possibly have for 125 points

10 Nobz (All have Cybork bodies)
Painboy
pk bosspole
pk WAAAGH! banner
pk
Big Choppa
Big Choppa shoota-skorcha combi
Stock
Shoota-skorcha combi
Bosspole
Stock

395

Battlewagon
Deff Rolla

110

Ghazghkull

225

Total: 730

3 Scout Sentinels with Multilasers, 105 pts

edit: points cost fail...

schizoreindeer wrote:10 Nobz (All have Cybork bodies)
Painboy
pk bosspole
pk WAAAGH! banner
pk
Big Choppa
Big Choppa shoota-skorcha combi
Stock
Shoota-skorcha combi
Bosspole
Stock

395

Battlewagon
Deff Rolla

110

Ghazghkull

225

Total: 730

I know the original rules said up to like 5 units and no more than 1500pts. But the unwritten rule is to keep it as close as possible the previous point cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DEATH89 wrote:3 Scout Sentinels with Multilasers, 105 pts

edit: points cost fail...

Kroot master shaper
Ork hybrid
Eviscerator
Mark of the favorued child
90pts

Toeko wrote:
Kroot master shaper
Ork hybrid
Eviscerator
Mark of the favorued child
90pts

No idea on this one havent a clue what it can do...

and acctually the op said as close to the original points cost, its not an unwritten rule if it is written.

back on topic I have no Idea how to beat that as it seems you tacked together elements from chaos, tau, orks, and demon hunters, which is against the rules as it must be a legal unit

It is from the Kroot mercenary list. My response to it is:

Piranha with BC, DP, TA, Flechettes.........80 Pts

focusedfire wrote:It is from the Kroot mercenary list. My response to it is:

Piranha with BC, DP, TA, Flechettes.........80 Pts

thanks for knowing what it is! lol Kroot need more love.

Heavy Weapons Squad 3 autocannons 75pts





Automatically Appended Next Post:

BIBBI wrote:and acctually the op said as close to the original points cost, its not an unwritten rule if it is written.

back on topic I have no Idea how to beat that as it seems you tacked together elements from chaos, tau, orks, and demon hunters, which is against the rules as it must be a legal unit

sorry about that I remember having read it and then I thought someone had said it was an unwritten rule. my bad.

Griffon Mortar. Death by barrage 75pts

owned lol. . .

SM scouts with melta bomb 80

shakey787 wrote:SM scouts with melta bomb 80

5 Ork Kommandos - 50

Umm- how do the scouts get close enough to use the melta bomb?

i dont think thats the point of the game?
id infiltrate then sneak up on you lol



Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry double post
ok then scouts with missle lancher 85

shakey787 wrote:i dont think thats the point of the game?
id infiltrate then sneak up on you lol



Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry double post
ok then scouts with missle lancher 85

The point of the game is to list a unit that has an obvious chance at winning- not just naming a unit of comprable price

You could infiltrate- but the Griffon could just back up and use its heavy bolter to keep out of assault range :p

And the add of a ML to the scouts is iffy- BS3 means only 1 in 4 shots is gonna hit&damage. Griffon will wound them on a 2+ and gets a reroll on the scatter.... Scouts just dont work well for some things

Looks like were going against the Griffon Mortar still, then. Let's see.

Landspeeder with MM - 65pts.

Lootas x4 - 60 points
... God I always fall back on what I know

Hydra Flak Tank, 75 pts

4 scarabs, 80 pts

as do I Chris, as do I

6 Grey Hunters all with standard gear, 90 pts

Landspeeder Typhoon- 90

Soo tempted to say hydra again

2 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes 100 pts

Drachon
Reaver jetbike
Tormentor helm
Agoniser
Combat drugs
121 I do believe

Baal Predator with sponson Heavy Bolters 145 pts

DEATH89 wrote:Baal Predator with sponson Heavy Bolters 145 pts

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun in cover. - 95

Vindicare Temple Assassin

110pts

Basilisk 125 pts

Zoanthrope- Spore pod w/venom cannon -120

Librarian in Terminator Armour, Gate of Infinity & Vortex of Doom - 125pts.

EDIT: The Librarian was against the tank.

Against the Zoanthrope & Pod: 7 Genestealers with Scything Talons

points?

Tantras wrote:Librarian in Terminator Armour, Gate of Infinity & Vortex of Doom - 125pts.

EDIT: The Librarian was against the tank.

Against the Zoanthrope & Pod: 7 Genestealers with Scything Talons

Whoops, sorry - 112pts

Vindicator 115 points.

2 x Landspeeder with MM - 120pts

8x Lootas - 120

Sniper Drone Team -80

2 Zoanthropes - 120 points.

Valk

Culexus Temple Assassin 105 pts

Sorry no codex to reference. But I believe a
Daemonhost can take him

85pts

Rune Preist, 100 pts. Tempests Wrath & Living lightning

Bumping the points a little bit.

Raider Squad - With Sayrabyte - Carrying a Crucible of malediction and Trophy racks~!

131 points

Ranges shooting and ranged (please please please faiol your test) Pykers kill.

Veteran Squad
2 Flamers
1 Heavy Flamer
1 Autocannon
Grenadiers

140pts

3 Hive guard- 150

Grey Knight Squad
4 PAGK
1 Justicar
150pts

3 Death Cult Assassins
120 points

You could probably do it with 2 if you placed them right though. The whole thing about each one counting as an independant unit and all.

3 Jetbikes-76
Shuriken Cannon (3 S6 shots)
Warlock-63
Jetbike
Singing Spear (Wrecks tanks)
Destructor (Heavy Flamer)

I have more shooty goodness than you. ^^

Total:
139

EDIT:

A few things on my previous post in this thread.

The scarabs' points were edited in AFTER I posted my response to the DE.

Also, scatter lasers are not AP-, AP 6.

Edited again because of a type. =(

Devastator Squad(5) 3 Missile Launchers- 135 pts.

2 death cult assassins - 80 points

3 assasins yes- But 2 is iffy and dice reliant on going first. :p

Assuming the assassins get the charge (and if they don't, you're not using them right), then the 2 assassins will make short work of the marines. I math hammered it out with one assassin, and it didn't take (close though, the Marine squad would be crippled), but 2 would slaughter some devestators on average. Three would be complete overkill.

With I5 and 4 power weapon attacks on the charge, each assassin would reduce the marines to less then half strength before they even got a chance to fight back, and even when they did, they'd have to allocate attacks on each assassin individually, making them even harder to kill off.

If you have the terrain to set up within 12" you have to make a difficult terrain test, and that D6 roll has a really good chance of leaving you short for the assault- and the assassins are not fleet. If theyre in cover its liekly the Devs can be too- and they dont have grenades- so their I doesnt matter on the first turn Terrain works both ways.

Against 3 then, Grey Knight Dreadnought, Assault Cannon & Incinerator, 125 Pts

Wraithlord with brightlance 130pts.

No codex on hand but what is the strenght of the dealth cult assassins?

6 Fire Dragons 1 Exarch W/ Firepike - 132 I believe, don't have my codex on me.

I believe your right also.

Necron Lord
Warscyth
Destroyer body
Pnts? I know lord and scyth are 110 and I can't for the life of me think of the bodies points

140 in total?

@ necron lord
2 Broadside battle suits, 140.

6 plague marines
2 plasma guns
158

@ Plague marines,
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

Battlewagon, Deffrolla, hardcase, Red paint, extra armour, grot riggers, 1xBS- 150

Waaaaagh wrote:Battlewagon, Deffrolla, hardcase, Red paint, extra armour, grot riggers, 1xBS- 150

10 Lootas - 150

Dedrith wrote:

Waaaaagh wrote:Battlewagon, Deffrolla, hardcase, Red paint, extra armour, grot riggers, 1xBS- 150

10 Lootas - 150

Ummm, S7 vs AV 14 armor = fail.



Vs the Battle wagon:

IG Melta Vets- 3 meltas- 1 chimera. 155.

2 daemonhosts
170pts

S6 melee attacks on 12 front armor? That probly need 6's to hit if theyre movin like they should be. Meanwhile the meltas are causing instant death shots on them when theyre close enough?

well I would be hoping for Timeshift, Teleport or Warp strenght.

Timeshift and Teleport would give me the mobility to attack the rear armour while Warp Strength would just let me tear through stuff.

Grey Knights Purgation Squad w/4 Incinterators (260 pts)

To beat the daemonhosts. BURN IT! is a good rule of thumb.

Toeko wrote:Well with the mobility rolls for their manifestation would let them get to the back armour. But I would be hoping for the D3 to S and T

So you're pinning your win on a 1 in 6 chance at the right power? :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toeko wrote:Well with the mobility rolls for their manifestation would let them get to the back armour. But I would be hoping for the D3 to S and T

So, you're hoping you roll the right power so they can win? 1 in 6 chance?

Also- if they did get the + to S and T- the boost to their T wouldnt stop a S8 hit from instant killing them- since thier base T is still 4 (like a SM that takes a bike). So they'd be too slow to get to the back armor if the chim was backing up to keep its AV 12 pointed at them- and it takes 6" of movement to get from front armor to the back of a chimera

And Meilissia- the GK's would work- but you jumped 90 pts(170 vs 260)- the thread is supposed to keep the points values similar...

Melissia wrote:Grey Knights Purgation Squad w/4 Incinterators (260 pts)

To beat the daemonhosts. BURN IT! is a good rule of thumb.

Went all out their didn't you, doubled my points.

Illl allow it so go with his unit. dont flame him for the point cost.

... her unit...

Brother Captain and 3 GKT. 199 points. Not much a purgation squad with 3 incinerators can hope to do against that.

Absurdal Vect firing ravagers at you. Suve AV 11 in CC isn't brilliant but I'll swing first with 5 WS6 Str4 Power weapons.

277


The Vect was for the 260 point unit, but I'll take tat one too sure

A Penitent Engine (you said Vect in close combat after all)

85 pts

Total: 220

Ironclad Dreadnought
Two Hunter Killer Missle Launchers
Seismic Hammer w/ Melta Gun
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer

Drop Pod
Deathwind Missle Launcher

Barring ungodly dice, i've got you by the short ones.

He'll get 1 wound per turn on average. When you consider that the GKs only need one 6 to screw your day over, I wouldn't call that a counter.

I was ninja'd, then posted right after, my response was at vect, and vect would ruin the pentinent engine... and then some.

He wouldn't be too bad against the terminators either, hell, vect would rip the terminators a new one.

Edit: I screwed up with a saying.

Melissia wrote:... her unit...

Oh, Im really sorry about that. No offense meant.

and I still dont even think the Purgation squad would be a sure win lol.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote: I was ninja'd, then posted right after, my response was at vect, and vect would ruin the pentinent engine... and then some.

He wouldn't be too bad against the terminators either, hell, vect would rip the terminators a new one.

Edit: I screwed up with a saying.

As my post said, I was assuming Vect in close combat given how the post I was responding to was worded.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Total: 220

Ironclad Dreadnought
Two Hunter Killer Missle Launchers
Seismic Hammer w/ Melta Gun
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer

Drop Pod
Deathwind Missle Launcher

Barring ungodly dice, i've got you by the short ones.

Bringing the points down.

Ravager 105pts

3 Dark Lance ftw

Exorcist: 135 pts

Not too much higher, but much deadlier against light armor. More importantly, it has longer range

Naked Fire Prism-115 points. We must not let our brothers run unchecked

Ahh, ninja'd

Oh well. carry on then

4 deep striking Chaos Terminators with combi-melta's. 140pts

Ninja'd, but still applicable if you lower it to 3 terminators, 105 pts.

Two heavy destroyers - 130pts

Toeko wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Total: 220

Ironclad Dreadnought
Two Hunter Killer Missle Launchers
Seismic Hammer w/ Melta Gun
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer

Drop Pod
Deathwind Missle Launcher

Barring ungodly dice, i've got you by the short ones.

Bringing the points down.

Ravager 105pts

3 Dark Lance ftw

You saw the drop pod right? o.O

And the fact that I get a melta, 2 krak missles, a S5 template, and a heavy flamer once I come down right...?

Also

@Melissia

It's not just beat units in specific circumstances, because that would make it more rock-paper-scissor than it currently is.

It's not beat-that-unit-if-you-started-in-close-combat-with-it

Vendetta. 3 TL Lascannon



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops- 120 pts.

No, but that was what was proposed, so that's what I responded to

Exorcist: 135 pts

(to be fair it'd need to get the first turn, but 3.5 average s8 ap1 shots is nasty against AV12)

2 Warwalkers
2 EML each
(Eldar Missle Launchers)

TOTAL: 140

4 missle, not too shabby, and they have outflank/scouts yada-yada, I like your sig by the way.

1 Broadside Battle Suit
with 2 shield drones
+1 BS
105 pts.

Ratling snipers x how ever many = the pts of a Braodside ( 7 or 8? )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm he edited it- 10 ratlings

Predator, bare

Might take awhile with 1 auto cannon but you can't touch AV 13 front.

60 points.

Ninja'd =(

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Predator, bare

Might take awhile with 1 auto cannon but you can't touch AV 13 front.

60 points.

Bumping the points back up: Daemon Prince with wings, 130 points

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Ninja'd =(

Dang ninjas are all over the place today....

Melissia wrote:A Penitent Engine (you said Vect in close combat after all)

85 pts

I was firing at him first, was saying I'd be able to beat them bothways

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Predator, bare

Might take awhile with 1 auto cannon but you can't touch AV 13 front.

60 points.

They'd scream 'For the Hemporer!!' and fall back so they could get stoned

But, if they went to ground in any cover it would take that AC a loooooong time- and I'd make you roll every dice til you gave up and had to go home :p

(good call though- most people forget about the AV13 vs snipers)

To counter the Flying Daemon Prince-

Rune Priest- SM Bike, Wolf tail talisman, Jaws of the cheese wolf, living lightning. 130.

... Exorcist, 135 points.

I keep falling back on that, don't I? Must be from playing Sisters too much.

Melissia wrote:... Exorcist, 135 points.

I keep falling back on that, don't I? Must be from playing Sisters too much.

In your defense, not much else in that army is ranged anti tank.

But..... It gets trumped by my 3 Chaos Bikers with 2 melta guns.

119 pts

Which in my experience gets beaten by a squad of Sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, combiflamer in a ForgeWorld rhino (192 pts)