In August, the immortal legions of the Ruinous Powers - the Chaos Daemons - will pour forth once more from the Realm of Chaos to drown the Warhammer world and the galaxy of the 41st Millennium beneath a tide of blood and destruction. Even now, mystics are assailed by nightmarish visions of horror and death, the fractured minds of madmen echo with sibilant whispers, and the doomed clutch symbols of their weak gods closer to them.
A host of incredible new Citadel miniatures for both Warhammer 40,000 Chaos Daemons armies and Warhammer Daemons of Chaos armies will soon be released upon mortal battlefields. All will be revealed in July here on the Games Workshop website and in August's issue of White Dwarf magazine, so keep an eye out for more information.
There were two images attached, but since there was nothing new (that I could spot anyway) I haven´t included them. Sorry if this is already up, but I couldn´t see it at least...
Not really, having a highly competitive codex or army book must be nice, but if I were playing WHFB, I just wouldn't play against daemons because the book is so damned broken atm. I do hope 8th neuters them a good deal. I wonder if we will see that oft touted plastic daemon prince in the releases this time.
Scottywan82 wrote:I would be more excited if I actually knew what was coming. I mean, we have solid guesses, but "A host of new daemons" is likely 4 boxed sets.
As if! It's way better to not know what's coming until the last second. Previews and hyping upcoming releases by showing upcoming releases is something amateurs do. The real marketing geniuses show you nothing and go out of their way to make you feel bad for wanting to know ahead of time.
Scottywan82 wrote:I would be more excited if I actually knew what was coming. I mean, we have solid guesses, but "A host of new daemons" is likely 4 boxed sets.
As if! It's way better to not know what's coming until the last second. Previews and hyping upcoming releases by showing upcoming releases is something amateurs do. The real marketing geniuses show you nothing and go out of their way to make you feel bad for wanting to know ahead of time.
Hmm, seems an odd time to do it - just as WHFB is released and spear head is being presented fro 40k, but then I guess they are the most 'universal' army in that players of either game could use them.
... Looks like I'll be letting my money collect in a pool until August, and buy if the sculpts are any good; I've always wanted to start a Daemons army... if the new sculpts are of horrors, then I'll be very happy.
I mean just look at the recent bumbling acts of marketing childishness we've seen in just the past year! Iron Man 2. All the trailers, previews, interviews, Comi-Con panels, tie-ins with burger joints and whatnot. None of that should have happened. The real way to market a movie like Iron Man 2 is to not tell anyone you're making it until a week before its release and then BAM, you hit 'em with the movie. You get everyone to sign NDA's that are punishable by forfeiture of all the person's assets and/or the death penalty, you hire hitmen to kill journalists that sneak in to take photos, you threaten local towns with forced sterilisation should they blab that something's filming in their town, and then then you say nothing about the movie at all and, in fact, even go so far as to deny you're making it.
Avatar. Another great example. All that hype about it being the most expensive movie ever made, the genius of the special effects, and so on. James Cameron should have denied he ever intended to make a movie after Titanic and then zzzzzzzzaaaaaaappp, Avatar - Realease Date - 1 week from now!
That's the real way to market. None of this preview/trailer/hype bull gak. You say nothing, you deny everything, and you leave everyone guessing as to what the hell you're doing until you physically are no longer able to.
Think of just how much money Avatar and Iron Man 2 could have made if we'd never known they existed until they were already in theatres? Hundreds more. Possibly even hundreds of billions more. Why is GW the only one who gets this?
Superscope wrote:So.. is it a actual Codex release or is just a wave release for some more models? (In which chaos deamons seriously do need some more plastic love)
No, it's like the recent Pumba-Boyz/River Trolls Orc release - just another 'wave'. However, unlike the tides, you can never predict GW waves. They're... stealth waves. Like their stealth price increase... or something.
Superscope wrote:PS - Can we see the pictures of those two models in the message? i havn't actualy seen them yet ;p
Is it possible this somehow ties into the rumored Grey Knight Codex? In the Daemonhunters codex they had those daemon adversary rules, though two armies in one book doesn't seem like it would fit into the current game design paradigm.
I saw this email this morning, came as a bit of a shock but models that work for two of their games is a pretty safe bet. If they do it like a regular codex release my bet would be on.
Plastic Plaguebearers.
Plastic Horrors (with upgrades to make the special ones)
Plastic Fiends (I hope not as they are too good to have everyone with some)
Blister for the 2 blue horror special characters
Blister for another special char.
There doesn't seem to be anything NEW in the pictures they sent with this email. I got the strange impression this was an email sent by mistake. It looks a feels like the email they sent a few years ago when they released this stuff initially...
I bet Eichmann Johnson is looking at the forums right now with glee, enjoying the coming debates and discussions that will devolve into shouting matches and anarchy. Das GW Reich has struck again.
Wasnt this announced a LONG time ago just never given a date. We have known about plastic horrors, PBs, and the plastic Demon Prince (even saw pictures) for a long time.
I have a feeling the books arent being redone, just the mini release of the plastics. The books are still too current and new relatively.
EDIT: Yeah after rereading the email its obvious it is just models no books.
When I saw the email about Daemons in my inbox this morning it was quite a surprise. My first thought was, "great, more new plastics hopefully to replace older metal models". My second thought was that GW did a great job keeping this a secret. My third thought after looking at this thread and similar ones on other forums was that a lot of people who insisted it was going to be Grey Knights or Dark Eldar in August are feeling a little less insistent today.
Hopefully we'll be seeing that Plastic Daemon Prince now and maybe some other metal models replaced or supplemented with plastic alternatives as well.
I would keep an I out for any large pics of deamons, if they are gonna release grey nights later this year now would be perfect to sneak them in. Just and idea that came to me.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I mean just look at the recent bumbling acts of marketing childishness we've seen in just the past year! Iron Man 2. All the trailers, previews, interviews, Comi-Con panels, tie-ins with burger joints and whatnot. None of that should have happened. The real way to market a movie like Iron Man 2 is to not tell anyone you're making it until a week before its release and then BAM, you hit 'em with the movie. You get everyone to sign NDA's that are punishable by forfeiture of all the person's assets and/or the death penalty, you hire hitmen to kill journalists that sneak in to take photos, you threaten local towns with forced sterilisation should they blab that something's filming in their town, and then then you say nothing about the movie at all and, in fact, even go so far as to deny you're making it.
You forgot to mention that noone is allowed to talk about movies by other studios in the cinema
olympia wrote:Makes sense. Release demons right after Fantasy 8th so that the models will be bought by players from both systems.
Makes sense, so that everybody knows that 8th edition is still broken by the Daemon army book
Was hoping for GK or DE in August, oh well. More time to save money
H.B.M.C. wrote:Of course not. Why would anyone want to show their new products in the E-mail announcing their new products. That'd just be stupid.
Dude, we got your disdain of GW about 3 posts ago. Let it go. I don't agree what they do either, but I don't need to drag down a thread with it. Go pick up FoW if you hate it that bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrassScorpion wrote:When I saw the email about Daemons in my inbox this morning it was quite a surprise. My first thought was, "great, more new plastics hopefully to replace older metal models". My second thought was that GW did a great job keeping this a secret. My third thought after looking at this thread and similar ones on other forums was that a lot of people who insisted it was going to be Grey Knights or Dark Eldar in August are feeling a little less insistent today.
Of course, GKs would make a good release to coincide with Daemons. I have nothing to back that up, it's just speculation.
BrassScorpion wrote:My third thought after looking at this thread and similar ones on other forums was that a lot of people who insisted it was going to be Grey Knights or Dark Eldar in August are feeling a little less insistent today.
These Daemons are not a full scale new release, they are only a handfull of items at most. This does not rule out a GK/DE release in August/September.
I was hoping the Dark Elf riders would be among their July stuff.
This does not rule out a GK/DE release in August/September.
We're talking about Daemons and August, not September, and Grey Knights, when they return, will be a major relases with a new Codex. No amount of wiggling is going to make it look like predictions of Grey Knights for August were correct.
Why, out of everything they could possibly release, they give us Daemons?
Not every release will be of interest to every fan, it's just not possible. Why post about it if not interested? Thankfully, most forum members don't post every time GW announces a release that's not for them, can you imagine the amount of useless posts if they did? At least the "not another Space Marine release" complainers will be quiet this time.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I mean just look at the recent bumbling acts of marketing childishness we've seen in just the past year! Iron Man 2. All the trailers, previews, interviews, Comi-Con panels, tie-ins with burger joints and whatnot. None of that should have happened. The real way to market a movie like Iron Man 2 is to not tell anyone you're making it until a week before its release and then BAM, you hit 'em with the movie. You get everyone to sign NDA's that are punishable by forfeiture of all the person's assets and/or the death penalty, you hire hitmen to kill journalists that sneak in to take photos, you threaten local towns with forced sterilisation should they blab that something's filming in their town, and then then you say nothing about the movie at all and, in fact, even go so far as to deny you're making it.
You forgot to mention that noone is allowed to talk about movies by other studios in the cinema
You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period. It's a dick thing to do, unless somehow yourself and your friends are the only people in the entire theater.
olympia wrote:Makes sense. Release demons right after Fantasy 8th so that the models will be bought by players from both systems.
Makes sense, so that everybody knows that 8th edition is still broken by the Daemon army book
Was hoping for GK or DE in August, oh well. More time to save money
I love how everyone just immediately assumes that one release invalidates the possibility of anything else.
Releasing Daemons in plastic? Awesome!
But obviously it means there's no possible way there could be releases of Grey Knights that the Daemon releases are tying into, right?
This does not rule out a GK/DE release in August/September.
We're talking about Daemons and August, not September, and Grey Knights, when they return, will be a major relases with a new Codex. No amount of wiggling is going to make it look like predictions of Grey Knights for August were correct.
Why, out of everything they could possibly release, they give us Daemons?
Not every release will be of interest to every fan, it's just not possible. Why post about it if not interested? Thankfully, most forum members don't post every time GW announces a release that's not for them, can you imagine the amount of useless posts if they did? At least the "not another Space Marine release" complainers will be quiet this time.
I never read anything about GK being released in August for sure, so Idk about that. If August is the (rumored) Fantasy (book or starter box) release month I doubt there will be another major release in the same month.
Actually I see truckloads of people post they would have preferred another release all the time (especially if another Marine army is released), I am not sure how anyone can not notice it, and if I feel like posting I don't like a release I will very damn sure do so. That comment was just as much meant as: instead of Daemons there are so many other items that are appealing so much more (not especially to me, but to a lot of other in general). Relax on getting those panties in a bunch please.
Another reason why I don't like Daemon releases is because they encourage people to play their broken codex, which is not a good thing for the game's overall balance. Simple solution is not play with or against those codex/certain lists of course, but still.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It would also be typical GW if they have gamers buy all these great new plastic Daemons just a short time before releasing a Grey knight codex that totally hoses the Daemon codex
I hope that even though appears you're talking about 40K daemons in that post, you actually mean Fantasy daemons. The 40K book is nowhere near overpowered- it's wierd and random, but definitely not OP.
TBD wrote:Why, out of everything they could possibly release, they give us Daemons?
I don't need or want any of this GW, so no money from me.
I suspect it's because Daemons might not be getting anything for a while so they are getting a token release before they get ignored for the more family friendly armies that will sell more boxes of 8th ed. It'll be an article in WD while they enthuse about High Elves/Empire (bleagh).
I'm somewhat confused, even if the rumor is correct, as to why people are assuming this counts as a 40K release to the minds of GW. Maybe it fits with the monthly scheme they've had recently, but they're about to put out a major release for fantasy, which is as good a time as any to screw around with that scheme.
Not that I have any inside info at all. I'm just saying that, even if the daemon second wave is coming out in August, GK or DE could theoretically be out in September. (Don't get your hopes up, of course, but don't make too many assumptions.)
Makes perfect sense. Release plastic units for Daemons in fantasy. An army that by the look of the rumors isn't going to be nearly as OP as it currently is. And then before everyone realizes the change they've bought tons of stuff to up their model counts for the new edition. It's actually really smart marketing. Especially if they tie in the GK's a month or two later.
Another reason why I don't like Daemon releases is because they encourage people to play their broken codex
Please tell me how you've managed to figure out that Daemons are a broken codex in the new edition of Warhammer? Fear, terror and ward saves all seem to suck in comparison to their current worth and having to spend tons more on core is a u-turn from the current style of minimum core of Horrors.
I actually let out a 'squeee' when I read this. Been saving up to buy about 5 boxes of Horrors and Plaguebearers (each). Might get the Daemon Prince too since I've got a little more time now!
And I might be off the mark by a long way here, but is there not something fluff-wise to do with Dark Eldar and Slaanesh? Could be making it up tbh, but if it's true, it could still tie into either DE or GK release
I momentarily bought into the idea of an August GK release, but I haven't got a problem with a September release either; if anything having Daemons released just beforehand makes a codex more likely to me.
In August, the immortal legions of the Ruinous Powers - the Chaos Daemons - will pour forth once more from the Realm of Chaos to drown the Warhammer world and the galaxy of the 41st Millennium
Wait a sec, weren't we supposed to get Dark Eldar, who got pushed back for Grey Knights, who suddenly got pushed back for Daemons?
At this rate, it'll be Daemons in August, followed by (suddenly) Black Templars in November, followed by (surprise!!!) Sisters of Battle first up in 2011, with Inquisition replacing Grey Knights for late 2011, and Dark Eldar pushed all the way back to December, 2012...
September is most likely starter box Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition.
Kanluwen wrote:You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period. It's a dick thing to do, unless somehow yourself and your friends are the only people in the entire theater.
Tell that the people in the foyer, wanting to talk about the movie they have just seen
Another reason why I don't like Daemon releases is because they encourage people to play their broken codex
Please tell me how you've managed to figure out that Daemons are a broken codex in the new edition of Warhammer? Fear, terror and ward saves all seem to suck in comparison to their current worth and having to spend tons more on core is a u-turn from the current style of minimum core of Horrors.
What does "seem" buy us right now?
Until anything is actually confirmed the codex is broken.
And not everyone is planning to play the new edition if some/most of the rumours are true. Around here there will be a lot of people staying with the current edition.
Brother SRM wrote:Welp, didn't see that one coming.
I don't think anyone did.
Especially as Tzeentch & Nurgle have needed plastics since DoC was released. If plastic Horrors were released as "Wave 2" up to 6 months after DoC was released, GW would have made money hand over fist as players bought Horrors in massive bulk and made 20+ PD the new standard for play.
Of course, it would have driven the remaining non DoC players out of WFB, but nevertheless, GW would have made a very large, quick buck.
So it's really uncharacteristic of GW to avoid the obvious cash grab.
Kroothawk wrote:September is most likely starter box Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition.
Kanluwen wrote:You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period. It's a dick thing to do, unless somehow yourself and your friends are the only people in the entire theater.
Tell that the people in the foyer, wanting to talk about the movie they have just seen
There seems to be a disconnect.
"Theater" is the part wherein you all sit down and watch the movie. It's a dick move to talk during that entire time, and it's common courtesy not to talk about the movie itself until you leave the theater(just in case you spoil something).
Around here there will be a lot of people staying with the current edition.
That is of course their prerogative. They can play an edition that has to be nearly entire house ruled to be even barely playable competitively instead of giving a complete reset a chance it deserves. The current edition of 40K is about five hundred times better than the previous one and I'm sure a lot of people were sceptical about those changes as well.
I just find it asinine to complain about an army getting new models after a complete rules reset since you have absolutely no idea how good or bad the Daemons will be under the new rule set. If armour saves are mostly unmodifiable then Daemons might very well be one of the bottom tier armies all of a sudden. Noone knows and you're being maybe a little more than just pessimistic here.
Kanluwen wrote:You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period.
There seems to be a disconnect.
"Theater" is the part wherein you all sit down and watch the movie. It's a dick move to talk during that entire time, and it's common courtesy not to talk about the movie itself until you leave the theater(just in case you spoil something).
Is there? You used two words to describe the same part of the same place, then gave your definition of only one.
That said, the very definition of cinema(as referring to place/building) is "A Movie Theater". A Theater is defined as " A building, room, or outdoor structure for the presentation of plays, films, or other dramatic performances".
Kanluwen wrote:You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period.
There seems to be a disconnect.
"Theater" is the part wherein you all sit down and watch the movie. It's a dick move to talk during that entire time, and it's common courtesy not to talk about the movie itself until you leave the theater(just in case you spoil something).
Is there? You used two words to describe the same part of the same place, then gave your definition of only one.
That said, the very definition of cinema(as referring to place/building) is "A Movie Theater". A Theater is defined as " A building, room, or outdoor structure for the presentation of plays, films, or other dramatic performances".
He obviously uses house rules for all his words For everyone else, cinema and movie theater is the complete building, not only one room:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_theater I wonder how he calls the building with all the cinemas in it But this is obviously off topic.
Does this confirm that the Rumormongers have no fething clue what they're talking about?
No, it confirms that there's a wave of MODELS coming for Daemons. This isn't a new Daemons book announcement. We still have no confirmation on the next book.
Does this confirm that the Rumormongers have no fething clue what they're talking about?
No, because if you actually take the time to read the Incoming! article, you'll see that this is only a new wave of Daemon models, while the rumor people have been talking only about codices. Hooray for reading! Scratch that, hooray for not reading?
Does this confirm that the Rumormongers have no fething clue what they're talking about?
No, it confirms that there's a wave of MODELS coming for Daemons. This isn't a new Daemons book announcement. We still have no confirmation on the next book.
People have seen GK, DE, Necron sculps supposedly, but the only new Daemon model I've heard was in the works was the plastic Daemon Prince.
My point being, a Daemon release seems kind of out of nowhere, and book or not it sounds like a major Daemon release.
Kanluwen wrote:You're not allowed to talk in cinemas, period.
There seems to be a disconnect.
"Theater" is the part wherein you all sit down and watch the movie. It's a dick move to talk during that entire time, and it's common courtesy not to talk about the movie itself until you leave the theater(just in case you spoil something).
Is there? You used two words to describe the same part of the same place, then gave your definition of only one.
That said, the very definition of cinema(as referring to place/building) is "A Movie Theater". A Theater is defined as " A building, room, or outdoor structure for the presentation of plays, films, or other dramatic performances".
He obviously uses house rules for all his words For everyone else, cinema and movie theater is the complete building, not only one room:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_theater I wonder how he calls the building with all the cinemas in it But this is obviously off topic.
Just leave it to kanluwen to misinterpret 50% of the thing he quotes.
Headkeepa wrote:There doesn't seem to be anything NEW in the pictures they sent with this email. I got the strange impression this was an email sent by mistake. It looks a feels like the email they sent a few years ago when they released this stuff initially...
Yeah, so? There wasn't any pics in the orc wave. It was just the army book art. If they do release daemon models, I might get some just to paint. I also hope the make the plague bearers better. They look stupid.
Headkeepa wrote:There doesn't seem to be anything NEW in the pictures they sent with this email. I got the strange impression this was an email sent by mistake. It looks a feels like the email they sent a few years ago when they released this stuff initially...
Yeah, so? There wasn't any pics in the orc wave. It was just the army book art. If they do release daemon models, I might get some just to paint. I also hope the make the plague bearers better. They look stupid.
Has there been any type of rumor to what new model will be released?
As I can't find it, we seem to get:
1.) Plastic Daemon Prince (model known for years)
2.) Plastic Seekers (prototype accidentally shown on Games Day 2009 shortly, see below)
3.) Plastic horrors, not looking like the current ones (confirmation by 75hastings69 over at Warseer)
4.) Some metal characters (confirmation by 75hastings69)
Strongly rumoured/wished are plastic plague bearers, but hastings didn't mention them.
Ooh... gummy daemons...
All those spikes makes the seeker mount like some sort of salamander dragon ... no more haunting demonic elegance.
Munch Munch! wrote:I hope those arn't going to be the new seekers. I like the sleeker and more elegant form of it. The dragon body and fleshy fins make it look khorny
Munch Munch! wrote:[
I also hope the make the plague bearers better. They look stupid.
Don't get your hopes up. Plaguebearers have had the most consistent model style out of all the daemons. I don't forsee them changing too much.
Well, I hope they atleast change the poses. A few of 'em look like they're supposed to be yawning and going to bed. This one looks timid and depressed.
God, that Seeker model shown above is awful compared to the one that went out of production a year or so ago. Why were those dropped again? Was it really the boobs?
I was a tad dissapointed by this news today as I was hoping for DE, GK, or something of the sort....oh well they needed some new sculpts as well fingers crossed for plastic Plaguebearers......
I admit, the new seeker looks good but you don't get the slaanesh vibe from it. If you took the daemonette off of it, you could probably use it for a salamander sm army in apoc. All you'd have to do is remove the rider.
I would kill (yes, kill) to see the new Horrors. I'm quite fond of the current range but I do agree with Jack. The old Daemonettes were WAY better than the new ones, and the old Bloodletters looked absolutely brutal.
I like the new Prince, but since I don't have any in my list I am not too concerned with the new one (though I'll probably get one to paint anyways).
Sooo yeah. If anyone can steal a pic of the new Horrors I'll love you forever
The old blood letters were nice. The new blood letters are better in some ways, because their poses suggest a more vicious and aggressivve nature, making them look like they're ready to take more heads. The weapons are also better. (didn't the older ones have pikes or something?)
Munch Munch! wrote:The old blood letters were nice. The new blood letters are better in some ways, because their poses suggest a more vicious and aggressivve nature, making them look like they're ready to take more heads. The weapons are also better. (didn't the older ones have pikes or something?)
Axes. they had Axes, which is MUCH more a weapon of Khorne then a sword is...
The current bloodletters and current daemonettes look far more like the original artwork and miniatures of the Realm of Chaos era than either of their predecessors.
I think the current bloodletters are pretty damned good.
Unfortunately in the daemonette's case, I think the predecessors were a far superior miniature. God only knows why they aren't even available as 'collectors edition' minis direct from GW. Someone suggested it was the bewbs and trying to make inroads in the Chinese market, where sensitivity to 'corrupting influences' is high.
Plaguebearers are supposed to look morose and plodding, because they are morose and plodding... The Tally men have to mope about counting all day and doing the washing up, whilst the Great Unclean Ones, Beasts and Nurglings get to have a mouldy picnic and play 'Guess Flu'.
I like the current incarnation of horrors, I liked the original as well, with the 'wakka wakka' hands. I'm interested to see what will be released in their stead and slightly terrified by Waagh_Gonads mention of the revulsion of the Morley minis... but morbidly curious to know what those looked like.
wouldnt it be nice if they were doing away with the weedy 5th edition Bloodletters & getting rid of the crab women in skirts that dæmonettes regressed to when the last new dæmon models came out?
I suppose its too much to hope that theyre actually fixing the rubbish models in the current dæmons range, theyre probably just ruining the plaguebearers & horrors so they match the bloodletters & dæmonettes...
Think of just how much money Avatar and Iron Man 2 could have made if we'd never known they existed until they were already in theatres? Hundreds more. Possibly even hundreds of billions more. Why is GW the only one who gets this?
Amazing rant! I loved it.
Oh, and:
dietrich wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:Of course not. Why would anyone want to show their new products in the E-mail announcing their new products. That'd just be stupid.
Dude, we got your disdain of GW about 3 posts ago. Let it go. I don't agree what they do either, but I don't need to drag down a thread with it. Go pick up FoW if you hate it that bad.
GW thanks you for pissing off and chasing away their customers. Especially ones who spend as much as HBMC does.
If this is a dex, I think DE, DA, Inq fans have a pretty good reason to throw a sh*tfit. I don't even play the damn games, but enough already, give those fans that have been waiting a freaking decade a little love.
Anyway, I personally am glad an army full of metal is finally getting some plastic love. And while I agree that the plastic Daemonettes look pretty awful, I love the plastic bloodletters (I just think they embody sheer rage and bloodlust better than the old ones). So I'm hopeful for the plastic demons looking good.
Even if it does delay my codex, I think Demon players deserve the ability to make an army that doesn't cost a bajillion dollars.
The most recent one is slightly differant than the 3rd ed. GUO but there has not been any change to the GD Daemons since 3rd (when the KoS, BT and GUO got slightly different heads).
Soul Grinder kit has a few extra bits and bobs for the legs that the Defiler kit doesn't have so the legs look different from the Defiler because of the extra kit.
The SG is not new, neither is the GUO (as in not an update to the ones already released). Those models exist and have for quite some time (2 years in the case of the SG).
This is soooooo ironic, before i just checked my email i was looking through some old pictures on my computer and saw that khorne tyranid with the bloodletter head and sword on the gaunt body. and my mind drifted back to my old full khorne army with conversions galore idea ive been playing with.
the ways of the dark gods are strange....
Munch Munch! wrote:I do hope the folks at gw release new gd's. The current ones look so ugly especially the blood thirster. Anyone got anything about the gd's?
I personally think the Keeper of Secrets looks ugly, the Blood Thirster looks hideous, and the Great Unclean One and Lord of Change look decent.
But troops are the first things that should be updated, since the price of metal troops stacks up more.
Here are the pictures. The soul grinder looks different,and the great unclean one looks a little different to me...probably the paint scheme.
Although it's been established these are old, may I say that the first one (Iunno about the second one) is actually from the Daemons of Chaos codex. So yeah, nothing new there.
Fateweaver wrote:Soul Grinder kit has a few extra bits and bobs for the legs that the Defiler kit doesn't have so the legs look different from the Defiler because of the extra kit.
The SG is not new, neither is the GUO (as in not an update to the ones already released). Those models exist and have for quite some time (2 years in the case of the SG).
Ah,okay,thanks. I'd probably buy both kits just for those leg plates,they look really awesome!
As an aside, I would like to see more machine-flesh demons in 40k, a la tinfoil's "The Harrowed" Demons . The Soulgrinder is a good example of this, and I feel it's fits very nicely. I don't believe GW would do this, as it would necessitate another army for them to complete, and they seem to be having enough difficulty updating armies from the 3rd edition.
I think the new bloodletters look fantastic as well as most of the range, so I am excited to see how they update the bearers and horrors.
I noticed that the horror models differ in paint jobs between the fantasy and 40k ranges (at least on the US site I know they do). The 40k ones are the old school paintjob but the fantasy ones have a much grittier and more violent/bloody look to them. I just noticed the change myself, so I don't know how old that is. Still, I have a feeling the codex models will probably be reflected in this.
Accolade wrote:I noticed that the horror models differ in paint jobs between the fantasy and 40k ranges (at least on the US site I know they do). The 40k ones are the old school paintjob but the fantasy ones have a much grittier and more violent/bloody look to them. I just noticed the change myself, so I don't know how old that is. Still, I have a feeling the codex models will probably be reflected in this.
Awww, I actually like the funky disco colored daemons!
I gotta say, this is one of the most unworthy uses of GWs time and resources that I've ever seen.
Demons have an amazing models range already.
Who asked for this? We have Eldar, Tau, DE, SoBs, Chaos and Necrons who are all struggling to enjoy the game using outdated codices full of obsolete rules... And GW is still vomiting superfluous garbage like Spearhead, more SMs, and now some new models that nobody asked for.
It feels like GW keeps throwing up barriers to keep armies that need updates away from the fans of those armies.
Archonate wrote:I gotta say, this is one of the most unworthy uses of GWs time and resources that I've ever seen.
Demons have an amazing models range already.
Who asked for this? We have Eldar, Tau, DE, SoBs, Chaos and Necrons who are all struggling to enjoy the game using outdated codices full of obsolete rules... And GW is still vomiting superfluous garbage like Spearhead, more SMs, and now some new models that nobody asked for.
It feels like GW keeps throwing up barriers to keep armies that need updates away from the fans of those armies.
As a Necron player, I must say: At least our troops are plastic. We get plastic destroyers, too. The metal models (With the blatant exception of Immortals) are usually not something that we need a ton of.
Demons? Plaguebearers and Horrors are still metal.
While I would prefer a new codex (For necrons, of course), I'm still glad we get some nice plastic models.
Archonate wrote:I gotta say, this is one of the most unworthy uses of GWs time and resources that I've ever seen.
Demons have an amazing models range already.
Who asked for this? We have Eldar, Tau, DE, SoBs, Chaos and Necrons who are all struggling to enjoy the game using outdated codices full of obsolete rules... And GW is still vomiting superfluous garbage like Spearhead, more SMs, and now some new models that nobody asked for.
It feels like GW keeps throwing up barriers to keep armies that need updates away from the fans of those armies.
These models have been done.
They've been done for quite awhile.
Well, Daemons have been lacking their second wave for a long time now, so I'm glad that they're at least keeping up with that (instead of abandoning the idea entirely and going back to "models with codex only unless they're Space Marines" like before).
Ostrakon wrote:Does this confirm that the Rumormongers have no fething clue what they're talking about?
No, though it does confirm that GW can change their mind faster than a Rumormonger can monger.
____
Kroothawk wrote:As I can't find it, we seem to get:
1.) Plastic Daemon Prince (model known for years)
2.) Plastic Seekers (prototype accidentally shown on Games Day 2009 shortly, see below)
3.) Plastic horrors, not looking like the current ones (confirmation by 75hastings69 over at Warseer)
4.) Some metal characters (confirmation by 75hastings69)
Strongly rumoured/wished are plastic plague bearers, but hastings didn't mention them.
Daemon Prince, Horrors, and Plaguebearers are obvious, filling out the HQ / Lord and Troops / Core.
Seekers give something for Slaanesh, and assume something metal for Khorne (presumably Juggernauts to match the Seekers).
I don't see them doing any new versions of kits that came out 2 years ago. In other words, no new Juggernauts, no new Soulgrinders, no new codex, and no new Bloodletters. I'm happy for daemon players - I'm sure the one I know will be excited for new plastics, or any plastics at all.
I really doubt a move from metal to plastic for models less than 2 years old (or about 2 years old). Not to mention the metal Crushers are popular enough. I mean how many Daemon armies exist that DON'T spam 3x4 Crushers (or more)?
Archonate wrote:I gotta say, this is one of the most unworthy uses of GWs time and resources that I've ever seen. Demons have an amazing models range already. Who asked for this? We have Eldar, Tau, DE, SoBs, Chaos and Necrons who are all struggling to enjoy the game using outdated codices full of obsolete rules... And GW is still vomiting superfluous garbage like Spearhead, more SMs, and now some new models that nobody asked for.
It feels like GW keeps throwing up barriers to keep armies that need updates away from the fans of those armies.
Jesus christ, grow up. Yeah, I get it. You're a bitter Dark Eldar player. Join the club.
Do you really think the sculptors are the ones writing the books? Does having Jes Goodwin on the one job slow down actual paper releases? Isn't it more logical to believe that Marines get gak out so frequently, because they all have a base model to design from that doesn't change to often? You can rewrite the rules for the marines, paint them a color and have a whole new "release" where-as the Xenos races need more work and typically (Tau and Nids not withstanding) don't sell like marines?
Do you really think people want more sisters and Dark Eldar to begin with? They are niche armys, and I play DE. I love Sisters. Does my opinion of them matter? Not when I'm one of 2 active DE players within 20 miles of my location.
Do you really just stay awake in a cold sweat, thinking about how everything released outside your tiny window of played armies delays your own toys? That's incredibly immature and obnoxious.
Fateweaver wrote:I mean how many Daemon armies exist that DON'T spam 3x4 Crushers (or more)?
I only own a single Crusher.
If I had Seekers that I could field without modding an entire army or having to hunt down more discontinued Daemonettes on Steeds, I wouldn't use a single crusher, I don't believe.
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Archonate wrote:
Who asked for this? We have Eldar, Tau, DE, SoBs, Chaos and Necrons who are all struggling to enjoy the game using outdated codices full of obsolete rules.
If this isn't a gross overgeneralization, I don't know what is. Have you read the results from 'ard Boyz? Plenty of Tau and Necrons placed. Tons of Chaos. Many Eldar (including me) and a few Dark Eldar. None of those armies are pushovers. You just may want a new, glossy codex (and who doesn't), but I think it's a far cry to say that these armies are "struggling to enjoy the game".
MeanGreenStompa wrote:The current bloodletters and current daemonettes look far more like the original artwork and miniatures of the Realm of Chaos era than either of their predecessors.
That's not necessarily a good thing.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I think the current bloodletters are pretty damned good.
They've grown on me, but as a proud owner of a few hundred dollars worth of the previous ones, I'll stick to the big-axed brutes.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Unfortunately in the daemonette's case, I think the predecessors were a far superior miniature. God only knows why they aren't even available as 'collectors edition' minis direct from GW. Someone suggested it was the bewbs and trying to make inroads in the Chinese market, where sensitivity to 'corrupting influences' is high.
Which doesn't hold water for me. They just wanted to do them in plastic. As a result, the infinitely superior old versions go the way of the do-do. Again, as an owner of over 70 of the old ones (plus 18 Daemonette Cav), I'm not fussed with the new ones being out there.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Plaguebearers are supposed to look morose and plodding, because they are morose and plodding... The Tally men have to mope about counting all day and doing the washing up, whilst the Great Unclean Ones, Beasts and Nurglings get to have a mouldy picnic and play 'Guess Flu'.
And as the owner of over 40... wow... I'm turning into a broken record here. I don't want them to change Plague Bearers. I like how pathetic they look.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I like the current incarnation of horrors, I liked the original as well, with the 'wakka wakka' hands. I'm interested to see what will be released in their stead and slightly terrified by Waagh_Gonads mention of the revulsion of the Morley minis... but morbidly curious to know what those looked like.
The only reason I don't own any current Horrors is because I hated putting together the Daemonette models and the Horrors have even more tiny fiddly parts. Plus a friend of mine has heaps and he hates all the little arms and tentacles and whatnot. Otherwise, great models. I do love the original ones though with the giant hands. The Musician Horror that was playing his head like a drum, he was awesome!
Plastic Horrors should be a good thing, but, we said that about Daemonettes...
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Fateweaver wrote:I mean how many Daemon armies exist that DON'T spam 3x4 Crushers (or more)?
I only own one Crusher. And I swore an oth of vengeance against the moron who designed that model... big metal cavalry model with frickin' two contact points on the base. Uhhh... apparently the non-Herald model is better.
I would not be surprised to find that the horrors go back to the earlier style - if only so that GW can unearth the old 'you kill a pink horror, now replace it with 2 blue horrors' rule to make us buy more models!
Plus, who doesn't like the old cheeky grins and sucker-fingers?
I do like the new ones but I would scoop up the new plastics if they did them in the big head style. Sad thing is I've never seen the old school ones on Feebay or any trading sites.
Fateweaver wrote:I do like the new ones but I would scoop up the new plastics if they did them in the big head style. Sad thing is I've never seen the old school ones on Feebay or any trading sites.
they are occasionally on the ebay, just gotta check twice a day every day. and i am being serious, i have seen them
Daemon Prince Adramalech has hinted at the new releases in his regular cryptic vision format:
Daemon Prince Adramalech wrote:The veil parts.....
The mysts of the warp fall open and the mortal realm catches a glimpse of the tumultuous realm of the gods. The surface of a distant planet coalesces before you. A mighty vista streches into the distance, the sky is a multi coloured smudge that churns and roars silently like an ocean in the grip of a great and terrible maelstrom. As you take in the sight before you multi hewed creatures caper across your vision cackling endlessly as they shift and change in the edies of the Emperyian. Suddenly the Diciples of Destruction swiftly charge across the plain, reveling in the dismay and debauchery they inflict in the name of the Prince of Pleasure. The tounges of their mounts flick out nervously as they sense the approach of their daemonic nemesis'. The Foot of Khorne charge from the horizon, blood and molten metal left in their wake as they attack the lithe riders of the Prince of Pleasure in a terrible stampede. Both rider and mount clash in a never ending dance of death.
As you look your point of view suddenly shifts, in the distance a mighty eddifice raises endlessly into the violent sky. On a balcony many Daemon Lords watch the ensuing combat, some wildy exhaulting their followers, others wisely taciturn and silent. In the shadows a shape moves, it's form seems to shift and warp as it flits around the balcony playing tricks on its daemonic cousins for its own amusement. You move up to the top of the tower, in a secluded chamber a mighty daemon lord stares endlessly into a crystal, muttering gibberish to itself. It's blind eyes seem unable to encompass it's own surroundings but as your vision begins to fade one of it's heads turns to look at you. As you see the creatures twisted visage you realise it has seen more than any other creature of it's kind, even it's patron deity knows not what sights have passed before its shattered from. It smiles at you......the veil closes your vision has ended.
Which I think suggest:
- Pink Horrors (shifting multi hewed creatures)
- Bloodcrushers (mounted Khorne)
- Seekers (mounted Slaanesh)
- The Changeling (shape moving in the shadows)
- Fateweaver (multi-headed daemon lord)
- Greater Daemon or Daemon Prince (the Daemon Lords)
Daemon Prince Adramalech over at Warseer gives us this cryptic vision of the new release:
Anyway i feel a vision coming on.....
The veil parts.....
The mysts of the warp fall open and the mortal realm catches a glimpse of the tumultuous realm of the gods. The surface of a distant planet coalesces before you. A mighty vista streches into the distance, the sky is a multi coloured smudge that churns and roars silently like an ocean in the grip of a great and terrible maelstrom. As you take in the sight before you multi hewed creatures caper across your vision cackling endlessly as they shift and change in the edies of the Emperyian. Suddenly the Diciples of Destruction swiftly charge across the plain, reveling in the dismay and debauchery they inflict in the name of the Prince of Pleasure. The tounges of their mounts flick out nervously as they sense the approach of their daemonic nemesis'. The Foot of Khorne charge from the horizon, blood and molten metal left in their wake as they attack the lithe riders of the Prince of Pleasure in a terrible stampede. Both rider and mount clash in a never ending dance of death.
As you look your point of view suddenly shifts, in the distance a mighty eddifice raises endlessly into the violent sky. On a balcony many Daemon Lords watch the ensuing combat, some wildy exhaulting their followers, others wisely taciturn and silent. In the shadows a shape moves, it's form seems to shift and warp as it flits around the balcony playing tricks on its daemonic cousins for its own amusement. You move up to the top of the tower, in a secluded chamber a mighty daemon lord stares endlessly into a crystal, muttering gibberish to itself. It's blind eyes seem unable to encompass it's own surroundings but as your vision begins to fade one of it's heads turns to look at you. As you see the creatures twisted visage you realise it has seen more than any other creature of it's kind, even it's patron deity knows not what sights have passed before its shattered from. It smiles at you......the veil closes your vision has ended.
Which probably translates to:
Horrors
Seekers
Bloodcrushers
Daemon Prince
Changeling
Fateweaver
But it could possible mean 4 plastic kits, assuming they don't release new metal Bloodcrushers, and the Daemon Prince is the plastic model which has been known for a few years. Very nice.
Wow! I almost ordered 12 of the metal ones from Maelstrom today! I can definately wait till August and finish up some other stuff before then. That's great news.
Well, DPA has been accurate with previous 'visions', such as the Spearhead releases and that the Manticore would be in the epic style instead of FW style. That the Crushers would come in plastic is currently still conjecture though, but it would seem strange to release a new metal Blood Crusher when the current model is still perfectly fine.
But you know, GW is stooopid, etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda...
Edit: And I suppose the Khorne mount could also be a Chariot instead of a Juggernaut.
I think its funny how everyone immediately assums GW is going to function in the same manner it "always has" and/or this Daemon model release is a sign that current rumors about DE/GK are invalid.
GW recorded record profits last year, this year, they have closed down a good number of "unsuccessful" GW stores (I put it in quotes because it was not always a case of "active" or not...) are planning on spitting out Spearhead (aka "Buy more tanks) Warhammer fantasy 8th and having a minor price hike in some of their bigger markets. Chaos Daemons are literally a "duel army" meaning that if 8th edition rules fit their fancy, WFB players will want to buy the new and exciting models, 40K Daemons are also a semi-popular list, and with the added melee threat of Dark Eldar and the clear-cut rival of Grey Knights, Daemon players will probably also injoy a surge of new models to field against their new adversaries. I honestly would not put it past GW to start spitting out codexes in bunches of 2s as it does nothing but open up opportunities for new and existing players to continue to buy more guys.
Imagine Bobby and Billy (GWs fav customers, aka spoiled brat brothers) Bobby buys grey knights, Billy buys Daemons. All the while, Brendon (their older brother, who is a bit 'disturbed') sees these Dark Eldar sadists who appeal to his dark burning soul... suddenly three kids whose parents have disposable income now have about 500$ worth of Christmas/Birthday presents they want to get. Also, August/September is when most kids get their student loan checks... all too convienent eh?
Its quite simple really... Plastic models = Higher profits. Replacing Metals with Plastics Should be right up GWs ally. The armies that currently need updates are surpringly high in metal models... so doing duel releases like, DE/GK, Necrons/DA, Eld/SoB, Tau/BT etc... just makes sense. I also wouldnt be too surprised to see a new Apoc rendition (or even a bunch of free PDF datasheets) with new legendaries (and models to go with them) as Forge World is also trying to make a deeper hold in the average gamers life...
its funny how everyone immediately assums GW is going to function in the same manner it "always has" and/or this Daemon model release is a sign that current rumors about DE/GK are invalid.
Not completely invalid, just the part about an August 2010 release that was so prevalent for the past few weeks till the latest news email from GW dumped it in the bin.
Anything's possible, but since Grey Knights is going to be a major release with both a new Codex and models, why would GW pull focus away from that by releasing it the same month as some randomly updated Daemon models? GW is careful not to compete with itself by releasing too much stuff at once. In spite of what some people think, it's pretty clear from their staggered releases that they understand that their customers only have so much money they'll spend in a single month and that if you release too much stuff at once some of it will sit on the shelf and the excitement over it will be lost.
May's Battlehosts and the two sets for Orc and Goblins are both relatively small releases both in number of items and in likely overall sales so it made sense to stagger them two weeks apart to keep cash flow going in May, but the Daemons release is probably (and hopefully) considerably larger both in number of items and in the fact that it is useful in both of their major core Warhammer game systems. I would find it suprising if GW had the Daemon release and the Grey Knights release share a release month.
I was just thinking that releasing models for two bitter enemy armies in the same month would be a good theme and we've seen lately that they really like to theme new releases as much as they can.
My daemon army in 40K will be pelased! I go away for a wekend and when i get hey it's new daemon time.
Persoanlly the only things I'd really like are plastic Seekers (only got three onld metal ones) and a plastic DP, i've got enough plague bearers and horrrors, but it the mini's are nice i'll ake them
Is it just me, or are most of the Chaos daemon models horrible. I mean, whenever I see a daemon army, I always think the models look cartoony and silly. Fiends look like something out of a he-man cartoon, Flamers and Horrors look like they're made out of pulled taffy, Plaguebearers look like silly pinhead caricatures, Screamers are just a bunch of flying Manta Rays, and we all know they have a big smile on their faces if you look at them from underneath. Even Bloodletters are cartoony with all their tongues hanging out. I've thought about trying out a Daemon army a bunch of times, but I can't get past the silly/non-evil appearance of most of the models. They need to be redone big time I think.
Just minis. Its about time too. New seekers would be awesome. Plaguebearers are great models and dont need doing. Bloodletters dont need doing. The daemonettes look awesome as they are. To be fair the two current princes look awesome but a plastic one with all options would be cool. The changeling needs a model though.
BrassScorpion wrote:Anything's possible, but since Grey Knights is going to be a major release with both a new Codex and models, why would GW pull focus away from that by releasing it the same month as some randomly updated Daemon models? GW is careful not to compete with itself by releasing too much stuff at once. In spite of what some people think, it's pretty clear from their staggered releases that they understand that their customers only have so much money they'll spend in a single month and that if you release too much stuff at once some of it will sit on the shelf and the excitement over it will be lost.
The only issue I see with this theory is that it assumes GW looks at their market in a "One customer one wallet" market as opposed to a "Customer A wants new A and Customer B wants new B" I think the biggest thing they noticed with the launch of Apocalypse was that the "Catering to one market at one time (almost with a 6 month lapse)" strategy is not necessarily the best of ideas. I think AOBR showed them that Duel Markets exist and thrive. People were purchasing the sets to fill both their Space Marine lists AND their ork lists, and buying accompaning models accordingly... If you look at the past few codex releases, random other armies also got new things almost side-by-side.
10 days before BA got their new codex, IG got new vehicle boxes.
Nids and Lost and the Damned were a similar story
IIRC it was either IG or SW that had some new ork kits come with them. That formula worked for them, in record quantities.
To assume that they would expand on that formula and release large batches of the "New models old army" (Especially for an army that can fill either of their two flagship games) as well as start duel launching codexes is to follow an intelligent buisness plan that will most likely succeed. Having these three launch simul will not necessarily deter people from buying them. The only people it would are people who run multiple armies, which are typically people (like myself) with the disposable income to drop on two armies. A single army player is a single army player. If they don't play GK, they won't buy GK, same with DE and double so with CD. Now if someone were to want to TRY a new army, I for one would believe they would be more inclined with more choices instead of "GK are the only New Hotness, if you don't like GK (Or MEQ in general) too bad, we at GW won't want your money for another 6 months, then a new GEQ will be out and we will expect you to budget for the next 6 months, even though this next Q3 is supposed to be one of the biggest video-game (our biggest competitor) seasons of the decade" I don't think GW thinks this way, I see them targeting GEQ and MEQ players at the same time from now on, to encourage more profit and hook their players in early as opposed to after they have dropped 500$ on an Xbox 360 Elite and the next biggest Halo/CoD/GH/RB/WiiGame/FFMMO/WoWExpansion/STARCRAFT2 (all of which are expected releases this year).
May's Battlehosts and the two sets for Orc and Goblins are both relatively small releases both in number of items and in likely overall sales so it made sense to stagger them two weeks apart to keep cash flow going in May, but the Daemons release is probably (and hopefully) considerably larger both in number of items and in the fact that it is useful in both of their major core Warhammer game systems. I would find it suprising if GW had the Daemon release and the Grey Knights release share a release month.
Again, I see August being more of a target month then may. August is when kids have their parents money, and the money they made over the summer. The college market have their extra FA money and the Travel industry's fade out will have fueled most economies to hopefully keep the shipping costs down and the model sales up. (Daddy saved 2k for not going to disney, makes buying Bobby a 200$ hobby game much more realistic. And god willing, there will be no more volcanoes)
I am looking forward to this Summer, hopefully June will set in stone the direction GW plans on taking both 40k and Fantasy.
I'm disappointed in their choice of release, because I was hoping for Tomb Kings. I was just saying 2 days ago, how its about time for them to announce the next release. How I wish they hadn't...
It seems to go Model wave, Book/Codex w/Models, and then model wave again. It has done this for a while. Which is good. It's allowing them to flush out armies with plastic and keeping more steady sales. It also helps keep people into their army since the aren't only seeing new models ever 10 years.
We've got just as many Daemon players in my area as we have Eldar players, more than Tau players, so to me they play well enough. Though my Daemons are made from plastic Vampire Counts figs rather than the metal Daemons, so I know at least in that case new plastic figs could really help the army.
40K Daemons still hold their own competitively. See the 'ard boyz threads. Several locations had daemons finish the prelims in the top 3.
The codex is actually quite powerful if used right. Not WFB broken powerful but it's not a whipping boy either. Plastic plaguebearers would be very nice to add to my army. I was going to do just nurgle/slaanesh but depending on the look of the horrors and if crushers do indeed end up in plastic I might go mixed again.
The 40k Daemons arent bad, but they are terribly simple. They all get Eternal Warrior, Invulnerables, Deepstrike, and fearless and then a huge lack of specialize rules and unit variation. Very few good shooting weapons when considering cost and usage.
But if new cheaper plastic models are made i could definitely see more people playing daemons as the book isnt broken and all the rules are up to date, which never hurts.
My greatest hope is that they make more variations of the Daemon Prince. If they could make an awesome tzeentch and slaaneesh one that would be where all my money goes to.
Fateweaver wrote:40K Daemons still hold their own competitively.
The codex is actually quite powerful if used right. Not WFB broken powerful but it's not a whipping boy either.
I said the Codex isn't as broken as the Army Book. That's not a knock on them, but a recognition that DoC is very strong whereas C: D isn't game-breaking.
wuestenfux wrote:Daemons in 40k are not selling well and new miniatures will not change this.
They need a playable codex.
They needed to not be separated out from Chaos Marines.
Yes, because so many CSM armies were made up of mostly CSM's. Oh wait. They weren't. Here is my 1 CSM squad and my 5 squads of Bloodletters. Umm, how is that CSM's again.
I'm glad Daemons got their own codex and I hope if/when GW do Legion codeciies that ONLY CSM's are present but if Daemons exist they are the same daemons as current (although I guess +1T, +1S, +1 I and 4+ Inv. save for Nurgle, khorne, slaan and tzeentch lessers would be alright).
I'm on record saying I'd be more interested in a more expansive Daemonworld approach with mutants, etc. I realize it'd defeat the purpose of the double sale for GW and that it would be a less focused codex. But TBH the current codex just seems a little too focused and limited and puts me to sleep every time I start to tinker with list building. Mind you, I've had interesting games against daemons, and I know listbuilding excitement shouldn't be a factor, but it really does bore me to tears.
Anyway, I think the Horrors returning to the old look will probably be enough to ensure I don't give Daemons a financial commitment until at least their next codex.
gorgon wrote:Anyway, I think the Horrors returning to the old look will probably be enough to ensure I don't give Daemons a financial commitment until at least their next codex.
Is that confirmed, or speculation? I never liked the giant hand waving goofballs of previous editions. I kind of hope its confirmed though, since I just stocked up on Horrors.
As for plastic Bloodcrushers... I can't say that it's likely or unlikely since GW seems to have thrown a wrench in the whole "GKs are coming out next" line of thought that we had going on here. Maybe they'll just rebox them and charge the same amount as VC Blood Knights
Hmm. To each his/her own. I enjoy making lists with Daemons. The one that bores me to tears is SM's. BA is fun to list build, as are Tyranids. 3.5 CSM codex bored me to tears as well (especially considering it ruined 80% of my army, thankfully rectified by the most current codex).
gorgon wrote:Anyway, I think the Horrors returning to the old look will probably be enough to ensure I don't give Daemons a financial commitment until at least their next codex.
Is that confirmed, or speculation? I never liked the giant hand waving goofballs of previous editions. I kind of hope its confirmed though, since I just stocked up on Horrors.
I'm just speculating, but I'm assuming that based on Hastings' comment over on Warseer.
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Fateweaver wrote:Hmm. To each his/her own. I enjoy making lists with Daemons. The one that bores me to tears is SM's.
Really? See, I even like SM better. I can at least tinker more and do some different playstyles with SM.
Here is the story I heard about why the old seekers were discontinued, right as a new codex to sell them came out... I cannot speak to the veracity of this story, but it makes good telling.
So, GW is well known for being a bit righteous when it comes to enforcing their IP. Turns out that they're not alone in this regard. The story I heard is that the sleek looking seeker was somewhat similar to a model that was released by another company, possibly Reaper. Reaper pressed the matter in court, and GWs lawyers dragged it out as long as they could, selling what stock they had, but eventually had a losing battle on their hands, and so had to give up the old, very cool seekers. This explains why they can't be sold as collectors line pieces too...
Fateweaver wrote:Yes, because so many CSM armies were made up of mostly CSM's. Oh wait. They weren't. Here is my 1 CSM squad and my 5 squads of Bloodletters. Umm, how is that CSM's again.
I'm sorry Fate, but what the holy flying feth are you blithering about now? Did you even finish that thought in your head before you vomited out on your keyboard? Honestly, I'm having a hard time working out just what point you were trying to make.
Do you even know?
Or is your irrational hatred of me now just causing you to mash your keyboard whenever you see a post of mine in the hope that maybe once in a while a coherent thought will form?
You pointed out that Daemons did not need to be separate from CSM codex.
I pointed out how well (actually how not so well) that worked.
I don't hate you H as I don't know you but you do rank higher than Shuma. I tolerate you more than him.
The 3.5 codex was lame with it's daemons. It should have been a separate list, ala the 2nd edition CSM codex or did what they did with the CURRENT daemons. Word Bearers players abused the daemons being better than CSM's in most regards so you saw gak like 1 CSM squad and 7 Bloodletter/Daemonette packs.
This is derailing the thread. Just pointing out why your statement about not needing a separate codex is absurd. We get it. You hate the Daemon codex for some reason.
Munch Munch! wrote:[
I also hope the make the plague bearers better. They look stupid.
Don't get your hopes up. Plaguebearers have had the most consistent model style out of all the daemons. I don't forsee them changing too much.
Well, I hope they atleast change the poses. A few of 'em look like they're supposed to be yawning and going to bed. This one looks timid and depressed.
You'd be depressed too if you spent your entire existence counting Nurgle's plagues upon the galaxy.
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TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
Munch Munch! wrote:The old blood letters were nice. The new blood letters are better in some ways, because their poses suggest a more vicious and aggressivve nature, making them look like they're ready to take more heads. The weapons are also better. (didn't the older ones have pikes or something?)
Axes. they had Axes, which is MUCH more a weapon of Khorne then a sword is...
Agreed, axes are a much more Khorney weapon. I hated the fact that the new berzerkers got swords instead of chainaxes.
wuestenfux wrote:Daemons in 40k are not selling well and new miniatures will not change this.
They need a playable codex.
They needed to not be separated out from Chaos Marines.
I think the approach GW took was poorly executed. There are ways GW could have pulled Daemons out and it would have been ok. They just didn't do that. For example, if the schmorgesborg of daemons within the C:CSM book had been kept to just the basic "troop" daemons and furies to allow room for more new units, I think most people would have been fine with that. In a similar vein the Chaos Daemons codex could have been so much more, by maybe incorporating elements of lost and the damned or cults. The fact that both C:CSM and C:CD combined are the size of Codex Space Marines shows how much of the short end of the stick Chaos got. It was hypocrisy on GW's part to split chaos the way they did to simplify that book while they inflated C:SM. Chaos ended up with two lists that are both incomplete.
I believe the Realms of Chaos book just said blades coated in blood. The 2nd edition 'letters had swords and look similar to the current ones (hated the axe dudes and the 3rd edition metals only because they were tippy and dumb looking).
There are daemons in the current CSM codex. Not my problem that people want a CSM codex where the daemons, who are weak enough to be summoned by mortals, are actually in every way better than the marines summoning them.
Again, only IW's players didn't stock up on daemons (only because they spammed oblits, defilers and bassies instead). Everyone else did though as Bloodletters and 'Nettes were better than Zerkers at assaulting with NO discernible drawback.
If you really want the current codex daemons with CSM's than build a list using 2 different force org. charts and both codeciies.
All GW had to do was give the generic lesser daemons the ability to take a mark that has the same effect as the appropriate icon.
The real reason taking them out was stupid is all those daemon miniatures that didn't get purchased because they weren't allowed in the codex. Lost sales for GW. Idiots.
frozenwastes wrote:The real reason taking them out was stupid is all those daemon miniatures that didn't get purchased because they weren't allowed in the codex. Lost sales for GW. Idiots.
Given how well WFB DoC sold and move Daemon models, GW lost absolutely nothing by nerfing the CSM Generic Lesser Daemons. Indeed, from a pure financial numbers standpoint, I'll be GW is very proud of how well Daemons sold post-split.
frozenwastes wrote:All GW had to do was give the generic lesser daemons the ability to take a mark that has the same effect as the appropriate icon.
If GW started Generic Lesser Daemons with a GEQ / WFB baseline, that'd work:
Base points could be in the 5-8 pts each. With Marks, they could bump into 7-10 pts range.
From a design / Fluff POV, Marked Summoned Daemons become clearly inferior to their "pure" version, keeping the focus on the CSM for the heavy lifting, while also making them cheap enough to be completely disposable. Tactically, it opens the option for CSM to spam GLDs as fodder and bait to protect the far more-valuable Chaos Marines, Obliterators, etc.
According to p.26, "Slaves to Darkness", Bloodletters carry a Hellblade. They also have a point of armour on all locations, have a bite, claw, and weapon attack, can spit poison, and regenerate like a troll.
Hellblades themselves have a bonus to hit, cause extra wounds, and drains magic/daemonic power from followers of Slaanesh.
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Given how well WFB DoC sold and move Daemon models, GW lost absolutely nothing by nerfing the CSM Generic Lesser Daemons. Indeed, from a pure financial numbers standpoint, I'll be GW is very proud of how well Daemons sold post-split.
In fantasy yes, but they definitely lost 40k sales of daemons with the split. Unfortunately they're in the same box/SKU so GW has no way of tracking if someone is buying them for WFB or for 40k.
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Given how well WFB DoC sold and move Daemon models, GW lost absolutely nothing by nerfing the CSM Generic Lesser Daemons. Indeed, from a pure financial numbers standpoint, I'll be GW is very proud of how well Daemons sold post-split.
In fantasy yes, but they definitely lost 40k sales of daemons with the split. Unfortunately they're in the same box/SKU so GW has no way of tracking if someone is buying them for WFB or for 40k.
Wait. You know that they lost sales of daemons for 40k and yet GW doesn't know because there is no way to track them to see if they are being bought for 40k or Fantasy? Or you just pulling that statement out of your ass because 12 people on Dakka shelved their CSM army due to daemons no longer being the spammed OP'd units they once were?
Wow, if you can somehow know what GW doesn't know without having data to back up your claim (as you just admitted there is no way to track purchases based on 40k/Fantasy) then I want the numbers for Wednesdays Powerball jackpot. It's up over $100M right now.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Given how well WFB DoC sold and move Daemon models, GW lost absolutely nothing by nerfing the CSM Generic Lesser Daemons. Indeed, from a pure financial numbers standpoint, I'll be GW is very proud of how well Daemons sold post-split.
In fantasy yes, but they definitely lost 40k sales of daemons with the split. Unfortunately they're in the same box/SKU so GW has no way of tracking if someone is buying them for WFB or for 40k.
That's *extremely* debatable. At the time of the changeover, there were several forces which can take Daemons: 1. WFB Daemons of Chaos (split off Mortals) 2. 40k Daemons (split off CSM) 3. 40kCSM
WFB DoC sold like gangbusters, and 40k C: Daemons seems to have done adequately well. If C: Daemons sold any moderate number of books, then any "lost" sales to CSM players (who probably already owned enough Daemon models to not need to buy more) would have been easily offset by new C: Daemons and expanding / new DoC players.
Indeed, it is entirely likely that GW foresaw that the "CSM" Daemons players would have cried over losing their better-than-CSM Daemons in the process, and that GW actively desired this outcome by forcing Daemon-based 40k players to switch to C: Daemons (needing new HQs & Heavies), while simultaneously forcing CSM-based 40k players to buy more Rhinos to "mech up" with the newly-available points freed up by nerfing CSM Summoned Daemons.
Now, whether you'll ever get GW to admit this in public is highly unlikely, but from an outcomes standpoint, GW "won" with more sales overall, so kicking the "CSM" Daemon players to the curb was the right thing to do from a bottom-line perspective. And that's how GW measures. ____
augustus5 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:I'm thinking he meant the Bloodletters.
No, I meant the old style berzerkers with the chain axes.
Those are the current / 3E plastic Berzerkers with more Chainaxes. The owner probably did a lot of bitz trading / swapping / shuffling for them back when Chainaxes counted as "Heavy" CCWs that limited saves to a 4+.
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Given how well WFB DoC sold and move Daemon models, GW lost absolutely nothing by nerfing the CSM Generic Lesser Daemons. Indeed, from a pure financial numbers standpoint, I'll be GW is very proud of how well Daemons sold post-split.
In fantasy yes, but they definitely lost 40k sales of daemons with the split. Unfortunately they're in the same box/SKU so GW has no way of tracking if someone is buying them for WFB or for 40k.
That's *extremely* debatable. At the time of the changeover, there were several forces which can take Daemons:
1. WFB Daemons of Chaos (split off Mortals)
2. 40k Daemons (split off CSM)
3. 40kCSM
WFB DoC sold like gangbusters, and 40k C: Daemons seems to have done adequately well. If C: Daemons sold any moderate number of books, then any "lost" sales to CSM players (who probably already owned enough Daemon models to not need to buy more) would have been easily offset by new C: Daemons and expanding / new DoC players.
Indeed, it is entirely likely that GW foresaw that the "CSM" Daemons players would have cried over losing their better-than-CSM Daemons in the process, and that GW actively desired this outcome by forcing Daemon-based 40k players to switch to C: Daemons (needing new HQs & Heavies), while simultaneously forcing CSM-based 40k players to buy more Rhinos to "mech up" with the newly-available points freed up by nerfing CSM Summoned Daemons.
Now, whether you'll ever get GW to admit this in public is highly unlikely, but from an outcomes standpoint, GW "won" with more sales overall, so kicking the "CSM" Daemon players to the curb was the right thing to do from a bottom-line perspective. And that's how GW measures.
____
augustus5 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:I'm thinking he meant the Bloodletters.
No, I meant the old style berzerkers with the chain axes.
Those are the current / 3E plastic Berzerkers with more Chainaxes. The owner probably did a lot of bitz trading / swapping / shuffling for them back when Chainaxes counted as "Heavy" CCWs that limited saves to a 3+.
Chainaxe limited save to 4+. Basically it worked against everything NOT in scout armor or worst. Stupidest rule ever.
Well, count me in as pleased that the Daemons are getting some love. I've had my eye on starting a themed Tzeentch/Slaanesh 40K Daemons army for a while now, and this news was just the jolt I needed into doing it. It'll be just the break I need as I finish painting my 1500 pts. of Tau, and keep staring at my Sisters on the shelf, patiently waiting for a new codex.
Fateweaver wrote:Wait. You know that they lost sales of daemons for 40k and yet GW doesn't know because there is no way to track them to see if they are being bought for 40k or Fantasy? Or you just pulling that statement out of your ass because 12 people on Dakka shelved their CSM army due to daemons no longer being the spammed OP'd units they once were?
Umm, the second statement was a qualification of the first. Even if a single gamer didn't buy a box of bloodletters because bloodletters aren't in C:CSM, then they definitely lost sales. I made no mention of what amount of sales they lost but I know for a fact it was greater than 0. Even if it was the 12 DakkaDakka people you mentioned. The same reaction was present in my gaming group in two cities. It is a reasonable assumption that people didn't buy a unit that isn't part of their army, isn't it? Just like how Space Wolf players are not going to buy the new Leman Russ kit now that it's removed from their army list. Even if 1 guy was going to, it's lost sales.
To what degree is impossible to know. And even if we had the best possible data (GW's private data), we still couldn't know because it's one SKU for both WFB and 40k.
So yes, I know they lost sales for 40k for daemons from those players who don't buy them because they can't use Codex: Daemons entries with Codex: Chaos Space Marines. How much of that was made up for by WFB sales or players buying them to use as Lesser Daemons is impossible to know.
GW is having enough trouble selling their miniatures without their own rules standing in the way. They should take every opportunity they can to upsell and cross sell people rather than building in barriers to their own sales.
But this is all academic for me at this point. Like a great many others, I've left GW's bad rules and bad policies behind. With overall revenue equaling units sold x average price, we know that more and more people are doing the same. WFB 8 probably won't revitalize things given that it seems to be geared to even larger games/point sizes and higher total army cost. And then add in the June 2010 price increases that are knocking on the door. The only way you can have the same revenue (or less) when you raise prices is if you sell less individual units. Which is the what the numbers in GW's financials over the last 5 years indicate. Hopefully for GW, the new WFB starter will sell like mad because I'm not sure too many people are going to go on to build 3000 point armies. Space Marines alone already outsell all of WFB combined, so I'm really not sure if WFB 8 can offer the kind of revenue GW needs to turn it's mediocre revenue around.
DE will make them money. As many as are leaving there are more coming in.
See, I'm actually tempted into Fantasy because of "rumored" rules changes (funny how people can judge every rule in Fantasy based on rumors of 2 dozen rules).
We'll just agree to disagree. GW will bet getting money from me when DE and the new plastic daemons are released.
I hope that the next Codex: CSM loses the current generic Daemons too. CSM don't need them and all Daemons belong to their own books now. The 40K Chaos Daemons just need to be a bit more powerful to become as popular as the Fantasy Daemons. Removing the stupid deployment by deep strike rule and just having the whole army deploy like normal units and giving some units scout and deep strike special rules would make the army a lot more likable to atleast me.
What the CSM need are mutants, possibly traitorous Imperial Guard or other types of human allies or slaves, Savage Morticians and their dark designs, many different types of Daemon Engines both of the close combat and ordnance types, etc. The Defiler should be just the very beginning. If the Codex design would follow along those lines the new book would have the potential to become the best one ever made. Daemons are in no way intergral to a CSM army background wise, and I for one think that splitting them from the Marines was a good thing in the long run.
Maybe with the plastics coming out gw might be thinking of introducing a battleforce and battalion which are both needed and i for one would buy if done right.
Daemon Dave wrote:Maybe with the plastics coming out gw might be thinking of introducing a battleforce and battalion which are both needed and i for one would buy if done right.
I think they're dropping these box sets altogether. NO Blood Angel one you'll note, or even a mention of one.
Daemon Dave wrote:Maybe with the plastics coming out gw might be thinking of introducing a battleforce and battalion which are both needed and i for one would buy if done right.
I think they're dropping these box sets altogether. NO Blood Angel one you'll note, or even a mention of one.
They represented a saving for the customer, that was unacceptable.
True but ba didn't need one. I think as they released sprues that can upgrade other kits they didn't really need to. Plus that would mean there are 3 marine battleforces out there. Beastmen got one as did tyranids so im guessing they are still about.
Therion wrote:What the CSM need are mutants, possibly traitorous Imperial Guard or other types of human allies or slaves, Savage Morticians and their dark designs, many different types of Daemon Engines both of the close combat and ordnance types, etc. The Defiler should be just the very beginning. If the Codex design would follow along those lines the new book would have the potential to become the best one ever made. Daemons are in no way intergral to a CSM army background wise, and I for one think that splitting them from the Marines was a good thing in the long run.
My old diatribe on this is that if GW wants to axe LatD, fine. But then at least split them and give them to the CSMs and Daemons. Give Traitors to CSMs, then give mutants (Daemonworlds are supposed to be teeming with them) and more daemon engines to Daemons. The end result is two more flexible -- and I think more characterful -- armies.
But the details really aren't that relevant. The point is that there's just an enormous disparity between what Chaos is in 40K and what it could be. GW can create all the plastic manufacturing efficiencies, etc. that it wants -- but if the product isn't that compelling, it's not going to matter because it won't sell like it should.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:They represented a saving for the customer, that was unacceptable.
My understanding is that GW pulls some boxed sets to juggle shelf space in their own stores. What they fail to factor in is the large size of some Local Gaming Stores, where shelf space is not an issue. I think the battalions and battleforces are a good idea, but in addition to denying the modest saving to us, GW might be trying to make room for other stuff like Apocalypse kits, etc.
Anyway, if we get plastic Bloodcrushers and Horrors, that's it, I'm making a Fatecrusher army...
Is Chaos really underserved in 40k? It's missing the Chaos GEQs to go with Chaos MEQs and Daemons proper. That's really not so bad, and one hopes that GW will revisit this as a parallel 40k release when the next WFB Chaos Mortals book comes out.
Quite possibly, the real hangup is that GW hasn't thought of a good "Codex: Chaos ___" short label that properly captures the essence of what they are. Not necessarily Traitor Guard, not necessarily Daemonworlds, and not necessarily Mutants. A lot of stuff fits under that umbrella.
In the mean time, aren't we excited to be getting GK & DE?
Or do we want GW to push DE even farther back so that LatD can get a proper, legal Codex?
I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
The other problem is that people want Chaos Marines to somehow, inexplicably, have access to Guard Armour, Daemons, and masses of Guard Infantry--all in the same book.
Kanluwen wrote:I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
The other problem is that people want Chaos Marines to somehow, inexplicably, have access to Guard Armour, Daemons, and masses of Guard Infantry--all in the same book.
Completely unnecessary.
/agree and i play chaos. I actually dont mind the current chaos books. They are a bit underpowered and over-simplified but i think books have a strong core. More detail just needs to be added, more individuality. Marked lesser daemons would be nice and marked greater daemons. Keep majority of daemons separate. Guard are just silly, if they want cultists and chaos guard give them their own book.
Kanluwen wrote:I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
The other problem is that people want Chaos Marines to somehow, inexplicably, have access to Guard Armour, Daemons, and masses of Guard Infantry--all in the same book.
Completely unnecessary.
That may be, but back when Eye of Terror came out, the local shop had about 12 people start one of those armies. They were chaos players that bought a bunch of guardsmen and tanks who otherwise would never have. Nowadays, there's not even a regular GW playing group at that store. It's all Warmachine, Flames of War, D&D and boardgames.
As far as balance goes-- that's what points are for. If it's too strong to combine those different elements, increase their points value or make them have to spend points on a piece of wargear or army option in order to include them.
Kanluwen wrote:I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
The other problem is that people want Chaos Marines to somehow, inexplicably, have access to Guard Armour, Daemons, and masses of Guard Infantry--all in the same book.
Completely unnecessary.
Actually, LatD were harder to abuse than the existing CSM book. Yeah, you could daemonbomb with LatD, but CSM daemonbombs were much better (daemons were Elites with LatD). Sure, you could field Russes and Basilisks alongside CSMs, but that meant fielding more crappy Traitor units in Troops and not mutants or CSMs. IMO it was one of GW's more underrated efforts -- lots of diversity but surprising balance. That's why I picked up the flag for them back when.
In Gorgon's ideal world, you'd have a Chaos codex with smaller numbers of elite CSMs leading traitors and various gribblies, a Legions book giving proper attention to the cult legions affiliated with the big 4, and a daemonworld codex with daemons and mutants. However, I'm veering off-topic here.
Back kinda more on topic, the generic daemon entry always smelled to me like something the studio added after strongly considering removing ALL daemon entries from the CSM codex. It might feel like an afterthought because it was.
gorgon wrote:Back kinda more on topic, the generic daemon entry always smelled to me like something the studio added after strongly considering removing ALL daemon entries from the CSM codex. It might feel like an afterthought because it was.
Something like that. I'm sure GW toyed with Markable Daemons, along with heavily-nerfed WFB-based Daemons, during playtest and ultimately decided to split the difference by pulling Marks and only having generics to drive the message home that the "real" Daemons are in C: Daemons. If you look at Markable WFB Daemons starting with a GEQ statline, Scoring MEQ-like Assault-on-Arrival GLDs really aren't so bad from a balance perspective.
gorgon wrote:In Gorgon's ideal world, you'd have a Chaos codex with smaller numbers of elite CSMs leading traitors and various gribblies, a Legions book giving proper attention to the cult legions affiliated with the big 4, and a daemonworld codex with daemons and mutants.
Not a bad approach, but I'd move the LatDCSM to HQ only - if there's even a single CSM amongst humans, he'll be leading the entire thing.
Kanluwen wrote:I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
Any more than any other Codex?
Sorry, but I'm tired of the counter-point to "Why doesn't Codex X exist any more" being "Because people could abuse it!". It's like Fate's infantile assertion that Iron Warrior players "only" ever took min/maxed Oblit/Defiler/Basilisk armies (I played Iron Warriors and regulary took 6 troops choices and only ever took a Basilisk in 1 game... and I own 3 Oblits, not 9) or that people took Daemons "only" because they had no drawbacks over regular troops (really? No drawbacks? At all? Really???) - in other words, these choices were "only" taken because of the power, and now we're free of that thanks to the holy sanctity of the new list (or no list, for all us LatD players out there). It also assumes that now we've moved on from the old Codex that that old abuse is gone. Well... that's partially true - the old abuse is gone... only to be replaced by all new abuses.
The grass isn't greener - it's just packaged differently and costs more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote:Something like that. I'm sure GW toyed with Markable Daemons, along with heavily-nerfed WFB-based Daemons, during playtest and ultimately decided to split the difference by pulling Marks and only having generics to drive the message home that the "real" Daemons are in C: Daemons. If you look at Markable WFB Daemons starting with a GEQ statline, Scoring MEQ-like Assault-on-Arrival GLDs really aren't so bad from a balance perspective.
Actually, according to Gav, 'Generic Daemons' were the compromise. The choice to split Daemons out of the Chaos Codex wasn't made by the design studio, it was made by those wanting another army to sell. Call it cynical, call it whatever you want - but the Generic Daemons in the 'Chaos' Codex were all that Gav was allowed.
Kanluwen wrote:I think the problem is that with Lost and the Damned there was a fairly large potential for abuse, in terms of models and then the list itself.
Any more than any other Codex?
Sorry, but I'm tired of the counter-point to "Why doesn't Codex X exist any more" being "Because people could abuse it!". It's like Fate's infantile assertion that Iron Warrior players "only" ever took min/maxed Oblit/Defiler/Basilisk armies (I played Iron Warriors and regulary took 6 troops choices and only ever took a Basilisk in 1 game... and I own 3 Oblits, not 9) or that people took Daemons "only" because they had no drawbacks over regular troops (really? No drawbacks? At all? Really???) - in other words, these choices were "only" taken because of the power, and now we're free of that thanks to the holy sanctity of the new list (or no list, for all us LatD players out there). It also assumes that now we've moved on from the old Codex that that old abuse is gone. Well... that's partially true - the old abuse is gone... only to be replaced by all new abuses.
The grass isn't greener - it's just packaged differently and costs more.
Lost and the Damned was never a Codex, so that point is kinda moot anyways...
But the problem is, like I said, that there was a potential for abuse.
Whether it's used or not is a different story.
Kanluwen wrote:But the problem is, like I said, that there was a potential for abuse.
It's almost as if you didn't read what I wrote.
Potential for abuse more than any other Codex before and since? Are you truly tricking yourself into thinking that now we're passed that stage of 40K's history the abuse has stopped, or that the potential abuse of an old Codex has been removed with the introduction of a new one? C'mon Kan - you're not that self-deluded.
I didn't say there was no potential abuses since then, HB.
Lost and the Damned was one of those lists where things could get very, very, very nasty very quickly--especially given the lack of "set" models to base things off of.
Which HB is agreeing with (to a degree), and saying it also exists in other codecies (to a degree), and is not a valid argument to eliminate an armylist.
Kanluwen wrote:I didn't say there was no potential abuses since then, HB.
Lost and the Damned was one of those lists where things could get very, very, very nasty very quickly--especially given the lack of "set" models to base things off of.
LatD had potential to be nasty? In what way? I see no way that you could describe LatD as nasty or potentially abusive.
Some cool cat must have been able to h4x the system and get pictures of the new models... come onnnnn
I hate waiting. It really does boggle my mind that GW says "hey guys guess what? We're going to release new models for your army but not tell you what they are so you can put off buying them for some months"
Remember what HBMC said? This is what gw wants. It gets you hyped up, and excited about new models and makes you wanna buy them. If they give you more time to see the new models, you have a greater time period to decide if you really want the models. By saving the pics until it's just a few weeks before release, we are overcome by the hype, aesetic and overall coolness of the models. They are using the human mind to get us, as they now the human mind is pleased by stuff that looks awesome. Smart tricksy fellas, aren't they?
Platuan4th wrote:Apparently? That's a bit more hopeful from you about GW than I expected. I expected more of a "Of course, this is GW we're talking about."
My apologies.
*deep breath*
GW is the devil. They don't show previews not because of any marketing strategy, but because they actually hate their customers - you above all others - and wish that they never had to deal with them. Their next Codex will be Codex: Money, where you just give them money and they kick you in the nuts for your troubles. Previews of that release should appear in December's White Dwarf.
Platuan4th wrote:Apparently? That's a bit more hopeful from you about GW than I expected. I expected more of a "Of course, this is GW we're talking about."
My apologies.
*deep breath*
GW is the devil. They don't show previews not because of any marketing strategy, but because they actually hate their customers - you above all others - and wish that they never had to deal with them. Their next Codex will be Codex: Money, where you just give them money and they kick you in the nuts for your troubles. Previews of that release should appear in December's White Dwarf.
GW is the devil. They don't show previews not because of any marketing strategy, but because they actually hate their customers - you above all others - and wish that they never had to deal with them. Their next Codex will be Codex: Money, where you just give them money and they kick you in the nuts for your troubles. Previews of that release should appear in December's White Dwarf.
GW is the devil. They don't show previews not because of any marketing strategy, but because they actually hate their customers - you above all others - and wish that they never had to deal with them. Their next Codex will be Codex: Money, where you just give them money and they kick you in the nuts for your troubles. Previews of that release should appear in December's White Dwarf.
Kanluwen wrote:I didn't say there was no potential abuses since then, HB.
Lost and the Damned was one of those lists where things could get very, very, very nasty very quickly--especially given the lack of "set" models to base things off of.
LatD had potential to be nasty? In what way? I see no way that you could describe LatD as nasty or potentially abusive.
By today's standards it had very little room for abuse. It traded out alot of the advantageous aspects of the Imperial Guard and replaced them with demons. It didn't have much in the way of unique units and its potential for abuse is more limited than the ability of Daemonhunters and Witch-hunters to take allies both of which have a larger list of ally units accessible to them.
Munch Munch! wrote:Remember what HBMC said? This is what gw wants. It gets you hyped up, and excited about new models and makes you wanna buy them. If they give you more time to see the new models, you have a greater time period to decide if you really want the models. By saving the pics until it's just a few weeks before release, we are overcome by the hype, aesetic and overall coolness of the models. They are using the human mind to get us, as they now the human mind is pleased by stuff that looks awesome. Smart tricksy fellas, aren't they?
It doesn't make sense to me though... I'd be way more hyped up if I knew what was coming. Look at it this way: if I hadn't bought the current Horrors and I got this email, I wouldn't buy anything else for my army until I knew what was actually being released. So I find out what the new Horrors look like and don't like them even the least. The old Horrors are discontinued so I can't get them unless I turn to eBay or even goto the extreme and change armies. This is obviously hypothetical but I'm just trying to play the daemons advocate here .
All I'm trying to say is while their current approach may work on some people, I think the vast majority would rather see what's in store for us and plan and prep so we can squeeze the shiny new goodies into our most likely tight budget if they are worth getting.
H.B.M.C. wrote:My apologies.
*deep breath*
GW is the devil. They don't show previews not because of any marketing strategy, but because they actually hate their customers - you above all others - and wish that they never had to deal with them. Their next Codex will be Codex: Money, where you just give them money and they kick you in the nuts for your troubles. Previews of that release should appear in December's White Dwarf.
Maybe they raised the price of AoBR so that they could release a new starter box with new plastic Daemon models and the new GK models - a Daemonic Assault boxed set! Accompanies the GK codex release.
Fateweaver wrote:Except Daemons will be a summer release, GK's not so much.
So, how many conflicting views are there now? At first, someone said Dark Eldar around/before Christmas. Then someone said DE pushed back for a GK release. Now people are saying the DE are first and that GK won't be out until 2011. Others say late summer, others don't.
I guess there's a good chance that no one has any idea.
June has the tanks, and August the Daemons. Weird that they spoiled August before July.
Or am I forgetting something here?
They told us July weeks ago, it's Warhammer 8th Edition.
Lmao, you are of course right. I don't know why I had it in my head that the release date for the rulebook would be August or September, but had not been confirmed yet.
So, just the book (which I am not buying anyway), and no miniatures whatsoever that month
June has the tanks, and August the Daemons. Weird that they spoiled August before July.
Or am I forgetting something here?
They told us July weeks ago, it's Warhammer 8th Edition.
Lmao, you are of course right. I don't know why I had it in my head that the release date for the rulebook would be August or September, but had not been confirmed yet.
So, just the book (which I am not buying anyway), and no miniatures whatsoever that month
I wouldn't be so sure on no minis that month. I'd be very surprised if there weren't some supplemental releases for various popular Fantasy armies the 2nd half of the month.
Don't quote me on that, though. I have no source, only my own speculative opinions.
June has the tanks, and August the Daemons. Weird that they spoiled August before July.
Or am I forgetting something here?
They told us July weeks ago, it's Warhammer 8th Edition.
Lmao, you are of course right. I don't know why I had it in my head that the release date for the rulebook would be August or September, but had not been confirmed yet.
So, just the book (which I am not buying anyway), and no miniatures whatsoever that month
I wouldn't be so sure on no minis that month. I'd be very surprised if there weren't some supplemental releases for various popular Fantasy armies the 2nd half of the month.
Don't quote me on that, though. I have no source, only my own speculative opinions.
Hopefully Dark Elf riders being one of them. That is what I kind of expected to be released in July.
Plastic Empire Knights would be even greater, but I don't think so.
anticitizen013 wrote:I wonder if there will ever be some viable Tzeentch Daemon prince models. I for one do not wish to sculpt a zillion feathers.
Buy greater daemon of tzeentch wings. Remove backpack spines on current daemon prince model. Insert wings and minor green stuff. Paint it blue, and bam. Tzeentch daemon prince.
anticitizen013 wrote:I wonder if there will ever be some viable Tzeentch Daemon prince models. I for one do not wish to sculpt a zillion feathers.
Buy greater daemon of tzeentch wings. Remove backpack spines on current daemon prince model. Insert wings and minor green stuff. Paint it blue, and bam. Tzeentch daemon prince.
That's not what I'm asking. I'm talking about an actual Tzeentch Daemon Prince. There's a Nurgle one already, so why not make a Tzeentch one?
The Horrors are one bit to close to squigs. Lord of Change looks intersting and boring at the same time but hey new wings for conversions! DP hm a lot will cry in disapointment. The Slaanesh steeds are mighty fine still no comeback of the nipple . Bloodcrusher nothing really knew. All in all they have potential for good conversions even the four armed sack on the top.
I mean just look at the recent bumbling acts of marketing childishness we've seen in just the past year! Iron Man 2. All the trailers, previews, interviews, Comi-Con panels, tie-ins with burger joints and whatnot. None of that should have happened. The real way to market a movie like Iron Man 2 is to not tell anyone you're making it until a week before its release and then BAM, you hit 'em with the movie. You get everyone to sign NDA's that are punishable by forfeiture of all the person's assets and/or the death penalty, you hire hitmen to kill journalists that sneak in to take photos, you threaten local towns with forced sterilisation should they blab that something's filming in their town, and then then you say nothing about the movie at all and, in fact, even go so far as to deny you're making it.
Avatar. Another great example. All that hype about it being the most expensive movie ever made, the genius of the special effects, and so on. James Cameron should have denied he ever intended to make a movie after Titanic and then zzzzzzzzaaaaaaappp, Avatar - Realease Date - 1 week from now!
That's the real way to market. None of this preview/trailer/hype bull gak. You say nothing, you deny everything, and you leave everyone guessing as to what the hell you're doing until you physically are no longer able to.
Think of just how much money Avatar and Iron Man 2 could have made if we'd never known they existed until they were already in theatres? Hundreds more. Possibly even hundreds of billions more. Why is GW the only one who gets this?
well avatar sucked so it wouldnt had made much more, but that sounds very district 9-ish in release method
on OT: When i saw the e-mail i was like "they switched us to chaos eldar?" and then cried when it wasn't is...But on a serious note i do really like daemon armies and i think an update will be pretty cool
Mosg wrote:Don't get me wrong--I'd love a plastic Bloodcrusher. I'm just skeptical looking at it.
Just about every person with the ability to do so has confirmed that they are plastic, and they already have a metal model. There's no other conclusion.
I like most of GW's models. I just don't like GW or their rules.
Big difference.
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bhsman wrote:Just about every person with the ability to do so has confirmed that they are plastic, and they already have a metal model. There's no other conclusion.
Let's hope so hey.
I mean, it'd be weird of them to just release another metal one, but, at the same time, it's also very odd to release a plastic replacement for a metal model so soon after they've come out. I know they've done it before, I'm just trying to think what the last time was... metal Chaos Terminator Lord. He was replaced pretty darn quickly. Was there another?
I wonder how the Bloodcrushers will be packaged... Maybe a box of three for 50 bucks? I know that's a lot more model for your money than the current metal ones. Is there anything comparable?
As soon as I decide I hate working with metal and start making a counts-as adeptus mechanicus daemon army they come out with pretty plastic horrors! Granted I would still have preferred plastic fiends instead of steeds (though these will sell well in fantasy) or bloodcrushers. But I do like that plastic daemon prince.
¬¬ Oh great I just bought the metal Daemon prince. He still looks coolest though. This will be awesome for me I like chaos and Inqusition. Plus new 8th fantasy .Gunna be spending sooo much this summer in doors lol.