I don't play nids, but what you're saying Kwosge seems to be the opposite of what I've seen/heard to be true for nids. I did buy a large army of nids (which I traded) including 100 hormagaunts, and I was universally derided by people I knew for choosing them over genestealers with the current codex.

That said, if the rules are about to change, it's a whole different story!

Unrelated- I don't like the new model too much :-/. But new models of any kind are great! And as far as the comparison to lictors go... again I owned four of them but I never assembled them before trading them off. I loved the look. Is the bad rap because they can't be posed differently from one another?

Kwosge wrote:A genestealer list is a joke. It's a one trick pony unit. It eithor wins combat and then dies in the shooting phase thanks to no consolidation or dies in CC thanks to fearless rules. They cost more than a SM, have a lower armor save, no gun, bad rending and can't even use their I6 unless you take away their FTs. FT are their best upgrade.
I field 2 sets of 17 point stealers, one 7man FT and one 7 man FH, in my quior army and they don't last in CC unless they win CC and they have to do it alown because i cant risk Fearless wounds. Hormagaunts are better than genestealers. A tooled out 15 pt brood hits and wounds on 3s and has I5 with FHs and it's cheaper than genestealers and has 12" charge. That means one less turn hoofing it. The only reason to take genestealers over hormagaunts is because you don't need synapse or because of FTs.

What are you smoking? Horms beat Genes? Genes have Better WS, Better I, Better saves, better Ld, better everything except assault range. Plus they have rending and re-rolls.

^^^
who is going to kill more SMs? 200 points of 10 point gaunts assualting on tun 2 or 200 points of stealers getting charging after taking an extra round of shooting? It doesnt matter if they are better in CC when you stack them next to each other. 24" movement pluss FH means that they hit cc one enemy round of shooting before the stealers and do it with fewer casualties and more models. Thats more attacks and they are using their actual I round one and not round 2.

Edit: if you're being chased by MCs then whoever you're playing doesn't know what they are doing. Let me guess, a flying tyrant with 2 sets of STs and 2 CC fexes that are 115 points or ~200 points and then a dakka fex and or boom fex and a shooty tyrant and he fields the CC fexes as close to your tanks as possible. Nothing suports the other units and he probibly just shoots at the closest target. The flyrant dies after 1 round and the fexes are running throughout the entire game. Very bad list and very bad tactics.

The reason the swarm list is harder to beat is because units suport each other by default. Gaunts screen stealers and hormas. Tyrants and fexes shoot from behind and zoanthropes and warriors provide close support and synapse. it's a list that everyone knows how to play right. First the small stuff then send in bigger and bigger guys. The problem with the list is anti tank. You just dont have enough of it in a swarm army and it shows at higher point games when a SM kills off MCs one and a half per shooting phase thanks to ap2/3 S8/9 weapons.

I don't really want to spend the time necessary to go through all the logical flaws in that last post, but suffice it to say that you budding Tyranid players would do well to act like that message never existed. Do not use Hormagaunts. Use Genestealers. Enough said.

A tooled out 15 pt brood hits and wounds on 3s and has I5 with FHs and it's cheaper than genestealers and has 12" charge.

What are you wounding on 3's? Horms with toxin sacs are S4. No wonder you think they are better then stealers if you've been wounding MEqs on 3's. Course you also don't mention them being T3 and 6+ save either. I've seen horms taking no retreat wounds a hellava lot more then equal points in stealers due in large part to their crappier T and save. YMMV.

MilkmanAl wrote:I don't really want to spend the time necessary to go through all the logical flaws in that last post, but suffice it to say that you budding Tyranid players would do well to act like that message never existed. Do not use Hormagaunts. Use Genestealers. Enough said.

This is a completely accurate statement pre-5th ed codex. We'll see from there.

True. I'm really hoping the swarms come back in the new book. That would make my day.

Swarms are fine if they fix the hormagaunt ankles. Snap more easily than Michael Owen's.

Giving Nids the ability to consolidate into other units would make them unique.

Hollismason wrote:Giving Nids the ability to consolidate into other units would make them unique.

Unique only because Orks don't do it anymore.

How about give the tiny gribblies a rule preventing thier 'no retreat' wounds being transferred to more important creatures. The they could be cheap, cheerful and 'without number' without being MC death-traps. Or would tracking combat resolution become too involved?

I really don't think that'd be an issue. "I'm attacking this unit" doesn't seem like a terribly onerous thing to say before you attack. The fluff for whatever special rule they slap in practically writes itself, too. Hive Tyrants wouldn't be terribly bothered by a bunch of Gaunts getting splattered. Duh.

Personly horms die easy to any thing i have lost plenty of times to sm in combat but genstellers just get shot because every ones still afiard of them from 4th

I thought this section of the forum was for news and rumors. None of this banter is news or rumors, just pure speculation and rebuttal. Every time I get a message stating that there is a new reply I hope that there is actually something of substance to read only to be disappointed.

Shouldn't the better part of this thread be in rules discussion or you make the call

Well it did start as rumours and news. Since GW seem to be keeping the lid on the new nids it's likely we won't see or hear anything for another month or so (i.e, right before the release).

So, in the meantime we are seing how far off topic this thread can go before it gets locked.

Nope, have to keep it on-topic. These threads always turn into speculation and wishlisting, and we'll lock it when it gets out of hand.

There's always the chance a new nugget of info will make it into the thread as well.

It's hard to say what would fix Tyranids because there really isn't much wrong with the Nids. It is 5th edition that sucks. H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

robocarullo42 wrote:I thought this section of the forum was for news and rumors. None of this banter is news or rumors, just pure speculation and rebuttal. Every time I get a message stating that there is a new reply I hope that there is actually something of substance to read only to be disappointed.

Shouldn't the better part of this thread be in rules discussion or you make the call

Well, considering GW's kill all interest in upcoming Xenos policy, it's surprising they don't just make it somehow illegal for us to even talk about the upcoming Tyranid release.

H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

HTH has not been ruined by 5ed, just the nature of it changed. Finesse in charges and outnumbering has been replaced with emphasis on multicharging, and durability versus damage output. Just means the good HTH units have shifted a bit.

Yeah, it is like a laborinth trying to figure out what is going on with that model's limbs. Looks like a buncha lash whips with poodle weiners on the ends. I would be running back to the Citadel if some monsteres were chasing me with poodle weiner tenticles. "Sorry mates, the Emperor can bite it. I am not fighting what ever that thing is. My girlfriend would never kiss me again after that thing did what ever it is planning to do to us."

I'm really not that crazy about that new Tyranid creature. It's just...tentacles...haha.

"How does the shoggath get on the roof? Tentacles! (Tentacles!)"

Darth Bob wrote:
"How does the shoggath get on the roof? Tentacles! (Tentacles!)"

OH MY GAWD!! I quote that film all the time and nobody gets it, so you have just made my day. Thank you!

HalloweenBomber wrote:I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

The other new plastic ones are better IMO.

Gargoyles are 10 in a box.

Ravenors come, I believe in threes.

Tyrgons are 1 per box.

That is welcome information indeed!

...anyone actually got pictures?

reds8n wrote:

HalloweenBomber wrote:I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

The other new plastic ones are better IMO.

Gargoyles are 10 in a box.

Ravenors come, I believe in threes.

Tyrgons are 1 per box.

Thanks

Any word on gaunts? maybe also 10 per box?

NAVARRO wrote:

Thanks

Any word on gaunts? maybe also 10 per box?

Would be nice, but as Gaunts are 4 to a sprue, not going to happen. Best we can hope for is 12, but I feel that to be highly unlikely.

winterman wrote:

H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

HTH has not been ruined by 5ed, just the nature of it changed. Finesse in charges and outnumbering has been replaced with emphasis on multicharging, and durability versus damage output. Just means the good HTH units have shifted a bit.

I see. So instead of H2H being about having a large number of attacks and good numbers of units (you know- like combat)- it is about how much damage you can withstand and how many people you are willing to fight at once? okay- thanks for agreeing with me.
I hear this stuff from time to time- people will tell me how good in H2H space marines are because of their toughness 4- and a 3+ save...I am just like wow- really?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be really interested in seeing what they do to fix the nids in the new codex under the New H2H rules- If they end up excusing Tyranids by letting them consolidate into fresh units- I will feel it is a cop-out...I am afraid they are going to have Carnifex broods and make them a shooty army with some shock troop fighter types- and I will be sad....

I agree. CC in 40k should be weight of attacks. That IS after all why the mechanics changed. Chargers MUST react, everyone that could attack at the start gets to even if pulled out of base before their initiative and ld modifiers are based on how much you lose the combat by.

Sounds to me like CC was shifted FROM durability and multi-assaults TO weight of attacks and kicking ass through numbers.

That is where 'nids are hurting right now. They have quality but not quantity and that doesn't cut it in 5th.

Thanx Fateweaver I was waiting for an avalanche of -NO! 40K is awesome no matter what stuff....unless you really work for Tzeench (Fateweaver) and are trying to manipulate me...hmmm- I will be watching you sir...

They have quality but not quantity and that doesn't cut it in 5th.

I sort of agree. Tyranids have units that would be good if they cost quite a lot less. No Retreat is crippling at the moment because we can't get enough attacks to kill stuff and offset the fact that Gaunts are really easy to kill. Simple points drops will largely fix that issue. The rumored WoN addition to "normal" Gaunts will be a huge help, too, and will make assault units barging into a big brood and dealing them 10 No Retreat wounds not quite as terrible.

Oh I'm not bashing on 40k cc rules. I like them the most so far. It's just that people (and I don't think it's gw's fault as so far every codex has units that can lay out sick amounts of cc attacks (blood claws/gh, ork boyz, daemonettes, vanguard)) think that cc is won through resilience and saves and complain when less resilient units with more attacks don't do so hot.

I think people who don't play 'nids (or do) are afraid that 'nids supposedly being the penultimate cc army will get TOO powerful regarding cc. Hormogaunts should be as badass as orks in cc (and don't say orks aren't, 120 attacks on the charge is scary and something I have faced (and please lets not get into loads of mathhammer)).

The shooty gaunt by default should have base 2 attacks. Certain nid units that need help are Raveners and Warriors. Ravs get a sick amount of attacks with good WS and Ini to back them up but suffer from no grenades in a game that is rife with grenades available and cover being used so much more than 4th.

So, I'm not so blind as to not see that 'nids badly need a new codex and I really hope that cc gets a huge boost and shooting gets a nerf. I'd rather gain another 2 or 3 attacks on my Tyrant in assault if it means losing some shooting ability, same goes for Ravs. I never pay for the shooting bio's on Ravs as they NEED to fleet to make it into cc to survive. Even if I'm too far away to assault I'll still fleet them to hope for cover, spread them out more or just use them as a screen for my stealers that cannot be ignored.

I see. So instead of H2H being about having a large number of attacks and good numbers of units (you know- like combat)- it is about how much damage you can withstand and how many people you are willing to fight at once? okay- thanks for agreeing with me.

4ed assault rules were not that great. Sorry, I don't agree with you. Clipping and outnumbering were silly mechanics. Now the units that can dish damage and take it win combats. Not the silly ass "reach only one guy in combat and wipe the killzone" or "you killed 10 and I only killed 1 but my guys don't care cause they outnumber your guys". It was dumb in my opinion. Made weaker (and less costly) units stronger then they should be and made some units nigh unbeatable if played right. Unfortunately Tyranids lived and died by those mechanics more then any other army and were also priced based on them. So yeah 5ed may have ruined Tyranids as an assault army, but doesn't mean H2H as a whole was ruined. At least in my opinion.

Your beef seems less about 5ed mechanics and more about Tyranids in 5ed and in that I can agree. It is why, as a fellow Tyranid player I am looking forward to the new dex.

winterman wrote:4ed assault rules were not that great. Sorry, I don't agree with you. Clipping and outnumbering were silly mechanics. Now the units that can dish damage and take it win combats. Not the silly ass "reach only one guy in combat and wipe the killzone" or "you killed 10 and I only killed 1 but my guys don't care cause they outnumber your guys". It was dumb in my opinion. Made weaker (and less costly) units stronger then they should be and made some units nigh unbeatable if played right. Unfortunately Tyranids lived and died by those mechanics more then any other army and were also priced based on them. So yeah 5ed may have ruined Tyranids as an assault army, but doesn't mean H2H as a whole was ruined. At least in my opinion.

Your beef seems less about 5ed mechanics and more about Tyranids in 5ed and in that I can agree. It is why, as a fellow Tyranid player I am looking forward to the new dex.

This is possibly one of the most accurate and eloquent posts regarding the current state of Tyranids I have ever seen on the internet.

I am lookin forwars to the new dex too- at least in theory- the godzilla army for Tyranids was the biggest failure I have seen GW commit. Most of my FLGS and I gave up on 5th- and play fantasy now. But believe me that isn't the only thing wrong with the 5th ed. One thing I do notice is the tons of people talking on these forums about how this H2H unit and that H2H unit suck now- to me- if all these people are saying their CC units are not good anymore- logicaly it could be the CC rules. and yes 4th wasn't all that great but- deployment and template, and a very short list of rules aside- there isn't anything new or good about 5th ed. Tanks are tougher- yeaaaa! so that GW can sell more Landraiders- goodie- killpoints? the"true line of sight" that gives everyone a 4+ save most of the time, characters auto joining units? everyone has fleet sorta? and on and on...How is outnumbering a bad mechanic? I think maybe we should make a thread about- do people know what mechanics should apply to CC? I know this game is sliding more and more away from resembeling what is would be like if the game were real, but, yeah if I charge you with 30 gaunts, orks whatever- and you have ten non fearless troops there should be an advantage for the gaunts if they are fighting just foot troops- not the gaunts get double killed cause they are fearless? Huh? The reward for charging a unit and smashing it in CC is next turn you get to be shot at if you don't do "the dual charge" that everyone harps about. How is that suppossed to be realistic? CC should be about- initiative, weapon skill, numbers, and what weapons the unit has. Maybe you can factor in movement speed as one- but that is just overall good for any model-CC or shooty, whatever the case. This is of course my opinion and if everyone disagrees- that is fine that is what opnions are all about- I have played Tyranids ( have played other armies as well though) religiously since 2nd ed. -not a weekend player or just tourney player- played them at least two sometimes three times a week for years and years and they were good times- perhaps they were a bit much in third editon- but this new way of combat seems counter intuitive to me- I will reserve the final Tyranid judgement till we get the new codex in few weeks(preview anyway)...but I really don't see how they would fix the units in the army- but then I am not a writer for GW-ha. So here is their chance to prove me wrong- and we will see what they come up with but to me there has been very little good rules wise to come out since Chambers left. either way I really want to see the models that they come up with- hope they aren't really making carnifexes in broods now and hope that the Trygon isn't in the new dex- I have one it is great model but I think it is going to a level that we don't really need to move towards. Sorry I know this seems like two almost seperate posts -but I think I may have steered this topic off a bit and was trying to fix it a little- ha.

The new bug looks like a kit bash fail. I was hoping for something new and unique. Really hoping this is plastic so I can convert it to look different.

I would not be surprised if the Trygon is in the codex since it would be the new hot buy me model like Valkyries were for Imperial Guard. It would also sell Raveners because you would want Raveners to come out of its hole so from a sale standpoint Trygon in the codex = win for GW.

yeah but at the same time the armies keep getting bigger($ of course) and now the actual models are getting bigger and bigger- we are going to run out of room on the tables- haha it can already be a pain to set aside room for the terrain, dice, tape measurer, templates, ect..haha- The Trygon model is the only cool biotitan though so maybe it will fit in- The others look very stupi- IMO.

Taken off Warseer. None of these have been shot down by anyone in the know (and I do realize they are still rumors so take with a pinch of salt as usual). Brimstone has more or less confirmed on seeing pics of gargs and ravs this month.

Some new rumor bits from this morning:

Tyrants:
Tyrants definitely have expanded psychic powers.
Increases to stat line on tyrant. +A +I
Tyrant gets 5+ invul default
Regen upgrade option as Fex (points expensive)
Lash whip can "target" a model in unit in CC (must mean other changes to LW)

Another rumor reinforcing a change to nids "rending" reverting rending back to 4ed for nids

Another confirmation of WoN availability on all Gaunt species...inc gargoyles

sprue pics for ravs and gargoyles should have visibility on web by nov 27.

Black boxes in stores by mid-Dec.

Box art online for Rav and Garg boxes before Dec.

"Surprise" mini planned, blister pack.

biomorph/weapons Sprue available separately direct only late Jan.

gargoyle weapon options include a cc build.

Nid PS Terrain set planned for mid to late 2010 (also rumor of Eldar Webway gate terrain set, but that's another thread)

Trygon/ravener "burrow" ability, go back underground, re-DS elsewhere on table....sounds like Necron Lord teleport ability. First I've heard of this, so this will need to be vetted.

Fex "nerf" will "make sense" is not related to Nid-zilla. players will still want to have many fex's

stealer "nerf" is just rumor. stealer FOC changes are re-confirmed. BL does more to stealers than just FOC change options.

Crushing Claws = dreadnaught CCW + new nid ability.

"Nid Surge" ability. Army wide. Extra move. (Ork Waagh? Name is not "nid surge")

Pravane like psychic ability...move enemy unit

Possession ability...control enemy unit

Shielding ability...protect unit

That just seems like a small list of apparently but not really credible wish-listing with a raft of other silly unsubstantiated things attached to it. I don't see rending going back without a drastic change in GW policy, and again, Genestealers changing force org position puts a major damage source for the army in direct competition with the synapse required to make the army playable and thus would be a silly, baseless decision.

Apparently it comes from a credible source and not even Brim has piped up to debunk any of them. Not saying he isn't hiding something from us but normally he will pipe up in his cryptic sort of way and let us know a little of what he knows.

I don't see them being any wilder than what has already been previously posted.

The rending thing seems pretty incredible, especially with recent rumors of 8 point base Genestealers and rending Gargoyles. There wouldn't be much point in taking anything else. Other than that, they seem reasonable. I'm holding out hope that Carnifexes don't get busted down to T5, though. That wouldn't make any sense at all. Given how huge and armored the model is, T6 even seems a bit low.

There's been plenty of absolute bunk posted by people just throwing wish-listing out all over the web when for the most part we can't even get reliable information from GW.

Howard A Treesong wrote:"Toxathrope" is just embarassing. It sounds like a monster from some 90s cartoon like Teenage Turtles or Captain Planet.

Yeah, but I don't think nids name themselves, at least not in vibrations humans can understand. Aren't the names of the xenos, in many cases, names that imperium have given them, either officially or slang? Kinda like the eldar calling the imperium monkeighs.

All in all, I will concede a SW admiral akbar, mon "calamari", moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a rumor I heard recently from someone in the flesh that claims to be in the know...genestealers will no longer be troops. I hope not.

I really like the 5+ Invulnerable save for Tyrants. does this mean the Zoanthrope save is increased?

I believe it's Venomthrope anyway.

Lash whip can "target" a model in unit in CC (must mean other changes to LW)

so you can snipe powerfists etc then ? That's a big boost. Also might go someway to explaining the hows and whys of Lukas the Trickster's cloak as well.

Some of this stuff sounds reasonable and fun. Some of it sounds extremely fishy. Extra moves for the whole army? More 'move enemy unit' controversy? Old rending? I really hope not.

Fateweaver wrote:Crushing Claws = dreadnaught CCW + new nid ability.

If this rumour is true(which I doubt), this leads me to think that the Fex Nerf is lower strength, as at the current S9 and being a MC, a DCCW makes no sense for one.

Its kinda weird....but cool!

Crushing Claws = dreadnaught CCW + new nid ability.


If this rumour is true(which I doubt), this leads me to think that the Fex Nerf is lower strength, as at the current S9 and being a MC, a DCCW makes no sense for one.

I do think the carnifex is going to get like str 8 maybe 7 but that would be shameful.
Also the hive tyrant really should have access to the most biomorphs you know because he is the leader.

Weird but cool!

I this 5th edition fixed a lot of things. I do not really have TOO many complaints any more. just don't really have time to play.

Has anyone heard anything about spore mines? Will they stay in the game? New mine types? Etc

spore mines are a joke

Remember DCCW is 2xS like a normal powefist but hit in normal initiative, ie Dreads drop back down to S-6 once they lose the DCCW S-12 but stats cap at 10 so S-10

+2D6 for armour penetration. It sounds viable...now we just need a way to make sure we hit those damned vehicles. I honestly think it's going to be done through bioplasma. Make it more expensive, but all cc attacks hit on 3+ or something to that effect.

How does a dread close combat weapon do ANYTHING for a Carnifex? There has to be more to it than that.

If it goes down in strength, a DCCW would pump it back up to Str 10, while not hurting it's Initiative. I'm sure it would probably also have the added bonus of sending GWAR! into some kind of seizure.

The Carnifex doesn't need to a strength nerf, and an initiative of 2, after paying for an upgrade, isn't good enough to justify "keeping your initiative" as a selling point for a dreadnought close combat weapon. As it is, a S10(after arbitrarily being nerfed to strength 9 to justify making toxin sacs an upgrade on him) Carnifex that ignores armor saves as a monstrous creature and an already pathetic I score gains nothing by being nerfed and then having a dreadnought close combat weapon tacked on.

Which is why that is exactly what's going to happen, and we'll have to pay points for that, too.

CC might also be available now for Tyrant, the rumored Hive Guard and maybe even Warriors (look funny though them huge claws on such a small model).

So if the Tyrant can take them we know it'll help him as Tyrant is definately not going to ever be S8 or 9 or 10 without help, same goes for the Hive Guard.

Looks pretty cool.

Looks like it just ate a squid.

Railguns wrote:The Carnifex doesn't need to a strength nerf, and an initiative of 2, after paying for an upgrade, isn't good enough to justify "keeping your initiative" as a selling point for a dreadnought close combat weapon. As it is, a S10(after arbitrarily being nerfed to strength 9 to justify making toxin sacs an upgrade on him) Carnifex that ignores armor saves as a monstrous creature and an already pathetic I score gains nothing by being nerfed and then having a dreadnought close combat weapon tacked on.

Which is why that is exactly what's going to happen, and we'll have to pay points for that, too.

I disagree about the lack of justification. Tyranids currently work far better as a shooty army than a close combat army and that's just wrong (IMHO). Considering all the changes that 5th bought (close combat resolution, lack of consolidation into fresh units, increased tank survivability, huge melta load outs to name but a few) the nids are in serious need of an overhaul. By reducing the base S of monstrous creatures they are pushing us to use close combat builds, since tankbusting at range will (and rightly so IMO) be a challenge. currently we have are stuck between a rock and a hard place...venom cannons that can glance or cc where we suck even worse. I'm looking at this release as an opportunity to let nids inflict some serious close combat damage, while fixing a few elements of shooting.

Lukus83 wrote:

Railguns wrote:The Carnifex doesn't need to a strength nerf, and an initiative of 2, after paying for an upgrade, isn't good enough to justify "keeping your initiative" as a selling point for a dreadnought close combat weapon. As it is, a S10(after arbitrarily being nerfed to strength 9 to justify making toxin sacs an upgrade on him) Carnifex that ignores armor saves as a monstrous creature and an already pathetic I score gains nothing by being nerfed and then having a dreadnought close combat weapon tacked on.

Which is why that is exactly what's going to happen, and we'll have to pay points for that, too.

I disagree about the lack of justification. Tyranids currently work far better as a shooty army than a close combat army and that's just wrong (IMHO). Considering all the changes that 5th bought (close combat resolution, lack of consolidation into fresh units, increased tank survivability, huge melta load outs to name but a few) the nids are in serious need of an overhaul. By reducing the base S of monstrous creatures they are pushing us to use close combat builds, since tankbusting at range will (and rightly so IMO) be a challenge. currently we have are stuck between a rock and a hard place...venom cannons that can glance or cc where we suck even worse. I'm looking at this release as an opportunity to let nids inflict some serious close combat damage, while fixing a few elements of shooting.

or they'll just gimmick the army with tons of free WON and overpowered garbage and it will still only be an army that appeals to "those guys".

Just got off BOLS but heres some new stuff,
2nd Trygon Variant: Mawloc
"The Mawloc is a Trygon variant with a distending mouth (like the Red Terror) and lots of funny spines all over it."

Hive Guard
"... the Hive Guard look awesome, surely a model everyone will want to have, but imo is also going to be a new "Zoa" in terms of its tippy-ness. It's a tall bit of metal. Those others who have seen can confirm.For me, i'm thinking weighted bases may be in my future."

Carnifex Stats
To support more Fex' in the army an overall reduction in stats should take place, however, increases elsewhere compensate (not sure if they mean in weapons or in the statline)

Biomorphs and Weapons
Crushing Claws are huge "can openers"...+1A, double s (10Max), ignore as, add d6 pen, d3 "wounds"/"vehicle hits" (too good to be true, IMO). The rumors around CC are running rampant. There is no doubt their effectiveness will be improved in the new codex. Models equipped will get a strength boon and the additional glance or wound on hit, so you can say these will be can-openers. I also heard the rumor that the nid ability that has been mentioned prior with CC is they can latch onto vehicles and prevent movement away from combat at the expense of their bonus attacks.

Talons +1A, "pinning"?

Envenomed claws, upgrade to CC symbiotes, wound on 3+

Rending Claws, autowound on 6 on hit, more expensive

Spinefists, fire and run (is this the rumor "subconcious weapon" we heard before?)

Barbed Strangler, large blast, entangle...unit next move as difficult terrain (Again, I thought this was a rumor elsewhere, too)

Bone sword, pretty much the same

Lashwhip, remove X attacks from attacking unit (allocate as wounds), can target individual, but then only affects single model. no min 1A. no longer base contact constrained. (a lot here and it seems complex, so I highly doubt all (or any) this is true, but I have no way to separate wheat from chaff)

Surprise Assault. (I'm not sure where this fits, if its an ability, a psychic thing, a army rule, a deployment rule, etc. If I were guessing I'd think it's lictor or Scuttlers related.) Unit enters play from reserve anywhere on table. must be 12" from enemy. Cannot assault the turn it enters play. Allowed normal DS "run"

Models
Ravenors (plastic) are 3 models per sprue. @ $29
Gargoyles (plastic) are 10 per box, and armed with fleshborers as the only weapons. @$44

I REALLY hope Surprise Assault isn't the new Lictor rules. Having it spawn at least 12" away seems odd.

Scything Talons with a Pinning addition would be really cool.

About the 'Mawloc'- someone else on BOLS said the distended mouth Trygon is NOT a Mawloc.

Of course, take with pinch of salt, as with all rumours.

A lot of this sound quite weird actually...
Makes me want to see the codex even more


//Edge

I WANNA THE GARGOYLES!!!

I disagree about the lack of justification. Tyranids currently work far better as a shooty army than a close combat army and that's just wrong (IMHO). Considering all the changes that 5th bought (close combat resolution, lack of consolidation into fresh units, increased tank survivability, huge melta load outs to name but a few) the nids are in serious need of an overhaul. By reducing the base S of monstrous creatures they are pushing us to use close combat builds, since tankbusting at range will (and rightly so IMO) be a challenge. currently we have are stuck between a rock and a hard place...venom cannons that can glance or cc where we suck even worse. I'm looking at this release as an opportunity to let nids inflict some serious close combat damage, while fixing a few elements of shooting.

I tend to think there'll be enough antitank shooting...it's just that it won't be so Carnifex-focused anymore. If things play out as rumored (lower S, but VC can pen and CC give additional bonuses), I can see the logic and I don't think it'll be a big deal once the dust settles. Although hopefully you folks have magnetized your Carnifex arms.

It's amazing that the new codex is less than two months away and we're so in the dark about some of the really fundamental things. I guess if Tyranids follow the recent pattern, we might have some new preorder pics in a week or so with more details flooding in around the one month mark...

On maelstromgames:

Tyranid Battleforce
release date:
19/12/09

contents:
3x Tyranid Warriors

8x Tyranid Genestealers

8x Tyranid Termagants

8x Tyranid Hormagaunts

1x Tyranid Carnifex

Same old content. :(

People use shooting carnifexes these days precisely because close combat carnifexes aren't ever going to get to combat with things you want them fighting unless you're opponent has a major screw-up. They don't need nerfed stats, for god sake. They are already base Initiave 1 Weapon Skill 3, and 2 attacks. How can they get worse without lowering their durability? They need more attacks, higher Initiative, Ws4,( at least to represent a creature of such size and strength being able to hit things with sheer mass). A dreadnought close combat weapon literally adds nothing that the Carnifex currently doesn't have. If they nerf the strength to something absurd like 5 or 6 to make the DDCCW desirable, then many of the shooting weapons wouldn't be fieldable at maximum strength, thus making anti-tank shooting WORSE than it is now.

Thats assuming 'nid weapons stay based on strength. Nobody knows for sure that small detail.

Maybe 'Nid weapons will remain based on strength but the modifiers will change.

Let's not knee jerk until we have concrete rumors either way (and so far nothing is concrete).

Wow I know a cool trick to use in Tyranid battleforce.You can convert Warriors to ravenors! lol

Termagant wrote:Wow I know a cool trick to use in Tyranid battleforce.You can convert Warriors to ravenors! lol

Of course. That's my intention. I have 6 warriors waiting to see new rules

just want to point out, that the GW website list for nids has changed. you can no longer buy gaunts box ( :O ) which indicates the a split up of the sets :(
also, the tyranid special chars have been put back in, indicating theyll be in the new codex old one eye, red terror and death leaper will be in new codex is my guess.

I remember the first two, ghosty (Carnifex & Ravenor variants, respectively), but what was Death Leaper?

I thought that the Deathleaper was just a different looking lictor model that was released with Cities of Death?

He had some additional special rules, the only one of which I remember was a 12" charge range, from Leaping.

Railguns wrote:People use shooting carnifexes these days precisely because close combat carnifexes aren't ever going to get to combat with things you want them fighting unless you're opponent has a major screw-up. They don't need nerfed stats, for god sake. They are already base Initiave 1 Weapon Skill 3, and 2 attacks for god's sake. How can they get worse without lowering their durability? They need more attacks, higher Initiative, Ws4,( at least to represent a creature of such size and strength being able to hit things with sheer mass). A dreadnought close combat weapon literally adds nothing that the Carnifex currently doesn't have. If they nerf the strength to something absurd like 5 or 6 to make the DDCCW desirable, then many of the shooting weapons wouldn't be fieldable at maximum strength, thus making anti-tank shooting WORSE than it is now.

S should be nerfed to S7. If venom cannons remain the same with the +2 S and you tack on toxin sacs you get your S10. I'm just trying to point out that if they give fexes fleet and improve their close combat effectiveness (scything talons give you +2A, bioplasma allows all cc attacks to always hit on 3+ etc...) you get a whole new and improved way of dealing with vehicles. Of course this is just what I would like to see, may not turn out like this...

If that were the case, then close combat carnifexes would be even weaker, and require points spent on upgrades to bring it back up to where it is now AT SHOOTING, which is what we are trying to focus away from(it isn't particularly good at that to start with) and even weaker at close combat unless you spend both of your "hardpoints" on scything talons and the DCCW. There isn't any reason to do that. There would be no actual change in the form or function of the Carnifex, and it would continue to suffer from the same problems then as now.

Carnifexes need fleet, or perhaps just make monstrous creatures faster to compensate for longer stride or something. The poor thing already has to waddle across the board at infantry speed to get anywhere, while every other army can start the high strength, armor ignoring killing from turn 1 with their heavy weapons.

I don't see it that way. By giving them fleet and a bunch of improved biomorphs (not saying that it's definately going to happen) and perhaps even an invulnerable save they should be real cc powerhouses.

It's not easy for me to explain in words what I'm imagining so I will give you a basic statline

WS - 4
BS - 2
S - 7
T - 7
W - 4
I - 2
A - 3
LD - 10

Special rules: fleet, fearless

By using up your hardpoint slots on cc (counting scything talons as +2 attacks each) you get a real nasty tank hunter since that would be a potential 8 attacks on the charge. Throw in what I said about bioplasma making all hits hit on 4's or 3's and you can even hit with more than 1. If you want guns go for it, but if you are expecting a nice S10 VC that can penetrate just be prepared to pay the points for it.

Bear in mind this is just a personal opinion about how I expect it to go down. If it's not done right they may just kill off carnifexes (in my lists at least).

Carnis need Fleet already.

Plastic Gargoyles, I never thought I would see the day.

What i was wondering if giving all this up dates to this armys, theres a few out there that need a update very badly. dark eldar, and nercons. Im not a big fan of nercons but thats a different story. People know that ,that army needs a update when they dont even look like a codex comparied to all the rest of the codex. Not even having that blue outline on the codex.

Tacobake wrote:Carnis need Fleet already.

Actually, they should give Blizzard a taste of their own medicine and put overlords in 40k. Then you could just drop the carnis on your opponents.

captain.gordino wrote:

Tacobake wrote:Carnis need Fleet already.

Actually, they should give Blizzard a taste of their own medicine and put overlords in 40k. Then you could just drop the carnis on your opponents.

Haha! That would be the day!

//Edge

A dread CCW on a 'fex whilst not impossible sounds odd to me, I would suggest it far more likely that we might see 'fex S drop a fair bit but things like crushing claws acting akin to powerfists for example. This would perhaps also help explain earlier rumours about being able to take multiple sets of crushing claws maybe ?

Hey. Not sure if this is old news or guess work. Maelstrom games has the new dex on as coming out on 09/01/10.

ghosty wrote:just want to point out, that the GW website list for nids has changed. you can no longer buy gaunts box ( :O ) which indicates the a split up of the sets :(
also, the tyranid special chars have been put back in, indicating theyll be in the new codex old one eye, red terror and death leaper will be in new codex is my guess.

They were already on the site in the collector's section, but now the Red Terror is in Fast Attack and Old One Eye is in Heavy Support. Good eye there!

Just keep an eye out on a few GW suppliers

As said, maelstrmo has the release dates on the dex, chances are they will put up dates on other things sooner or later

Since we are wishlisting.

I would like to see Carnifex getting the ability to DS as SM Drop Pod. (Mycetic Spore)

For a cost of course.

If you are able to actually get a CC Carni into CC, then it is worth quite a bit.

If you cant get a fex into CC then it just means you dont have enough fex's

So you advocate spending hundreds upon hundreds of points in dead weight just so 1 Carnifex can get into combat by turn 4? Even with 6 Carnifexes and 2 Hive Tyrants advancing as a monster wall it would take several turns to get into combat with anything that didn't want to be there.

Carnifexes should be able to move faster bigger creature= big steps. Just watch godzilla he's walking faster than most cars and can out run helicopters.(I'm talking about the American version.)

Godzilla didnt have a giant shell and carapace armour slapped over him, or 2 sets of bio weapons.

I dunno, JD - big claws & really bad breath count as two weapons, right?

Bad breath wouldnt weigh it down.
The claws are pretty skinny and stream line on zilla

so no, they wouldnt really weigh it down much.


Now, a large shell from its shoulders to back, and more on each limb, giant armoured talons and massive armoured pincers would weigh a little bit

JD21290 wrote:Bad breath wouldnt weigh it down.
The claws are pretty skinny and stream line on zilla

so no, they wouldnt really weigh it down much.


Now, a large shell from its shoulders to back, and more on each limb, giant armoured talons and massive armoured pincers would weigh a little bit

Now that you mention it, Gamera wasn't very nimble on his feet...

He could fly fairly well though!

Wings and legs are 2 very different forms of movement Alpharius
A haddiran moves quickly, without wings, it wouldnt move much, if atall

Well, I see where this conversation is going.

I don't really mind the mellee thing, but Carnies need to be treated more like mellee tanks and less like big creatures, or at least have a bug varient that can be used as such

imagine:
-they have an armor value instead of a toughness value, making them resistant or immune to garbage like tarpitting them or standing units in the way, The horrible weaponskill and low number of attacks is fine, because they are for smashing tanks not whomping characters.

-a 2 story tall monster should be able to tank shock right over these punks and smash the tank when the army is /reliant/ on getting said monster to the tank and have no other ways of dealing with them at the same time infantry shouldn't be locked in combat with them nor should they with infantry

-maybe a longer range charge attack that is only usable against vehicles to aid in the catching? something like a 12" charge that can only be used on 60mm base models or tanks would really help the "catch me if you can" problem.

just wishlisting, but I really like the whole "running down the tank with the big invincible bug" thing, I don't want huge guns to deal with them in the next codex =(

JD21290 wrote:Wings and legs are 2 very different forms of movement Alpharius
A haddiran moves quickly, without wings, it wouldnt move much, if atall

Watch a REAL Godzilla movies as opposed to that American garbage.

Gamera doesn't have wings, he just shoots flames out of his extremity cavities to fly.

Do not forget that the rules must humor people who lose to an army containing even one carnifex.
Especially now that so many have been sold!
Must nerf them -- they are obviously too good if they do not die to a volley of whatever is handy at the moment.
Wait, was this the wrong thread for that?

kirsanth wrote:Do not forget that the rules must humor people who lose to an army containing even one carnifex.
Especially now that so many have been sold!
Must nerf them -- they are obviously too good if they do not die to a volley of whatever is handy at the moment.
Wait, was this the wrong thread for that?

YES!!! Kidding of course. This thread went offtrack by about page 1.5, so it seems that this is a thread for anything and everything bugs.

I just really, really hope fexes become better than T6. How can something that's S9 or 10 be the same toughness and have the same wounds as something that's S6 max. I'm really hoping the cost will go up considerably for them and they'll go to T8 or something more realistic. And, in case anyone knows, is it true that the new boxed set is coming out in december?

Some news brought back from a french forum. The poster had a conversation with staffers of a GW store, and the source seems reliable, as they had "the book in their hands".

* Hormagaunts @ 6 points, S4 and 2 base attacks, biomorph available to add furious charge.
* Rending claws allow rerolling 's to wound (or to hit, the guy messed it up).
* One of codex's new entries is a breeding pit guardian.
* No more immunity to instant death for synapse creatures, but in case of warriors a point cost rework.
* New hive tyrant being a "super tyrant".

That's all folks, what do you think about that ?

I would love the hormagaunt thing and I think it just brings them in line with ork sluggas, faster but a little bit more fragile.

Greets
Schepp himself

Ravajaxe wrote:Some news brought back from a french forum. The poster had a conversation with staffers of a GW store, and the source seems reliable, as they had "the book in their hands".

* Hormagaunts @ 6 points, S4 and 2 base attacks, biomorph available to add furious charge.
* Rending claws allow rerolling 's to wound (or to hit, the guy messed it up).
* One of codex's new entries is a breeding pit guardian.
* No more immunity to instant death for synapse creatures, but in case of warriors a point cost rework.
* New hive tyrant being a "super tyrant".

That's all folks, what do you think about that ?

I'd be very careful with that. Not expecting Black Boxes until the 16th of December, so perhaps the source here was telling porkypies?

It's been brought up that that "french post" is very likely fake because of the lack of an original french post, among other issues. If it is true, then be prepared to stop using warriors, because they'll be shot off the board by battlecannons and such.

Ravajaxe wrote:Some news brought back from a french forum. The poster had a conversation with staffers of a GW store, and the source seems reliable, as they had "the book in their hands".

* Hormagaunts @ 6 points, S4 and 2 base attacks, biomorph available to add furious charge.
* Rending claws allow rerolling 's to wound (or to hit, the guy messed it up).
* One of codex's new entries is a breeding pit guardian.
* No more immunity to instant death for synapse creatures, but in case of warriors a point cost rework.
* New hive tyrant being a "super tyrant".

That's all folks, what do you think about that ?

Except for Hormagaunts costing 6 points everything here is completely different that what we have been told or lead to assume by trusted GW sources all over the Internet. Furthermore, the Hive Tyrant and No more EW are direct copies of the fake codex someone put out several months ago. Finally, I have been told that the actual post made on the French forum was very poorly written, i.e: not written by someone fluent in French, and that has been confirmed by your "the guy messed it up" commit.

There are two things that give this credibility; that it was made on a French forum, where codex leaks happen first, and the 6 point Hormagaunts, already confirmed by GW insiders. It is also widely assumed that Rending Claws will be 4th edition style. Although this has yet to be confirmed we know that there will be a significant change in how Rending Claws work because they are worthless on MCs. If anything happens to Rending Claws it will have to be for them to be effective on MCs and rerolling 1's to wound make rending worth about 2 points. Everything else is a proven lie or baseless rumor that can't be proven false without the codex in hand.

In short, you've been had.

Railguns wrote:It's been brought up that that "french post" is very likely fake because of the lack of an original french post, among other issues. If it is true, then be prepared to stop using warriors, because they'll be shot off the board by battlecannons and such.

What I report here is not faked. And I belive my english is accurate enough so that I haven't introduced any significant error in translating.

If you want to check, the original is here :
http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=117834&view=findpost&p=1545998

Kwosge wrote:Finally, I have been told that the actual post made on the French forum was very poorly written, i.e: not written by someone fluent in French, and that has been confirmed by your "the guy messed it up" commit.

I dont feel it is poorly written. There are some (3-4) spelling mistakes and abbreviations, it's quickly posted, but nothing is terrible.
He made a digest of what he was told of, and adds some quotes "je cite"

By "the guy messed it up" I wanted to say that the guy had somewhat forgotten wich of the rolls it is, after he returned from GW store.

Some things may appear surprising, I agree on that. And it is still possible that the GW staff was trying some hoax just to see if it would appear somewhere on the internet. But I doubt that, these piece of information are not incredible, or he met GW employees that have 5 on hoax skills.

And as I said...Black Boxes aren't desptached to stores for a couple of weeks yet, further casting doubt on the veracity of the source.

Have to admit that your doubts are founded. But a pre-print version may be ready in advance and presented to some people. I don't know. Translation of codexes to french is made by a dedicated GW-France team. Leaks have already occured, and may still occur now.


Just for my information, how long before the official release are these mysterious black boxes given to staffs ?

Tends to vary. Would need to check the schedule.

Usually no more than a month or so.

Black Boxes should arrive by Dec. 7. or so I hear.

They've been released 5 weeks prior to the official release.

OK thanks, I will pop up by this date in my FLGS to see if I could grab some news.

If those rumors regarding instant death is true we might as well pack up and go hide...
(Not really but that would *bleep* up one of the best and well loved aliens...sad)

//Edge

avantgarde wrote:Black Boxes should arrive by Dec. 7. or so I hear.

They've been released 5 weeks prior to the official release.

Might be a bit later. Was told there is a slight delay in getting them out, but that was a few weeks ago.

Ok guys interesting news i was down at my local store today, and i got some info from interrogating one of the guys there. he said that the gargoyles had come down and hinted on new models (when is aid plastic, he said he was unsure (which is never good) he said plastic trygon for shizzles and something about special chars not being named.......huh?? incidently, the warriors box has got new cover art. kinda like the backround for the daemons of chaos, and he said the gaunts box has been split in two. so...... seems to me, that things are getting interesting. oh and hive tyrant might be new, as it didnt have a new box like alot of the other stuff....

I like to take my points more from the fluff than pointless arguements that people seem to get flamed instantly on here now if they post rumours.

One codex refers to carnifex's as gaint lumber beasts i.e slow and heavy.
In other cases with the screamer killer squad for apoc and other things most fluff tells them quickly hitting enemy lines before the enemy can prepare for the creature's attack i.e shock troops fast and deadly like genestealers. This really should be in the wants thread, but it makes sense for Carnifex's to have fleet if they are close combat, but not if they have ranged weapons.

just my points.

ghosty wrote:Ok guys interesting news i was down at my local store today, and i got some info from interrogating one of the guys there. he said that the gargoyles had come down and hinted on new models (when is aid plastic, he said he was unsure (which is never good) he said plastic trygon for shizzles and something about special chars not being named.......huh?? incidently, the warriors box has got new cover art. kinda like the backround for the daemons of chaos, and he said the gaunts box has been split in two. so...... seems to me, that things are getting interesting. oh and hive tyrant might be new, as it didnt have a new box like alot of the other stuff....

...

Plastic Gargoyles and plastic Tyrgons have been confirmed for a long time. We have even seen the plastic Tyrgon but there is a debate onto which one it is.
The internet is 99% sure that Warriors and Raviners are going to be in one box with an extra leg sprue for the Raviners. The current new box also happened about a month ago. GW changed the color scheme for one of the Hive Fleets.
No one knows about the gaunt box yet because 8 is to few per box, 12 is to many and 10 is not possible. We don't know what is going to happen to gaunts. Anyone who says otherwise is just guessing.
We aren't getting a new Hive Tyrant from GW. They said that. I know GW lies a lot but it's a great model. The Hive Tyrant is one of the best models Tyranids have with Lictors and Fexes right up there. If a new one does come it will be from Forgeworld to make theirs on par with the GW one. It will probably not be out in time for the release.
GW insiders claim that Tyranids are getting Old One-Eye, The Red Terror and the Death Leaper. This is iffy because we already know they they aren't going to get new models so expect them to be converts only or Old School.

I know this thread doesn't move fast but we need to remake it for December. There is to much re-posting and the OP needs to be completely redone. This topic is about to really speed up and we are going to need a better OP, specifically a living OP, that actually tells us information and rumors about Tyranids as a whole and that readers can look at to see the latest stuff without reading through 15 pages.

^^^Wait until the Black Box hits, someone will invariably start a new thread with more concrete information.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

avantgarde wrote:Black Boxes should arrive by Dec. 7. or so I hear.

They've been released 5 weeks prior to the official release.

Might be a bit later. Was told there is a slight delay in getting them out, but that was a few weeks ago.

Heard that too, but Brimstone called shenanigans on a similar delay rumor in the Warseer summary thread.

My own sources have said some similar things about a delay... and I trust my sources. They have no reason to lie.

Murmours from my local GW too.
They don't seem to have a release date for Jan yet and have attributed it to a printing error.
Can't wait!

Kwosge wrote:The internet is 99% sure that Warriors and Raviners are going to be in one box with an extra leg sprue for the Raviners.

I don't know where you got that tidbit from, but the new Warriors box has already been released, and it's just a repackage of the same old sprues with the new box art. Also, the Ravener sprues have already been seen, and they're 3 Raveners to a frame, with all the thorax-mounted ranged weapon options, and with a little emergence hole terrain bit on it aswell.

GW changed the color scheme for one of the Hive Fleets.

They changed all of them. However, all they really did was change the colour of the ranged weapon biomorphs of all the hive fleets. Leviathan has red bioweapons now for instance.

GW insiders claim that Tyranids are getting Old One-Eye, The Red Terror and the Death Leaper. This is iffy because we already know they they aren't going to get new models so expect them to be converts only or Old School.

Actually, it's just been rumoured that there is a returned of special characters to the new 'Nid codex, not specifically OOE, RT and DL. Could just as well be brand new characters, or unnamed special characters to represent a rare genotype or mutation. IMHO the latter would fit better in the 'Nid fluff anyway, they're not exactly individualistic.

The first wave/new kits for the Tyranids are

Plastic Ravenors, Trygon -- which enables you to build any of three variants AFAIK, and gargoyles.

Metal Hive Guard - akin to Tyrant guard, similar "stepped" helmet like head and crouched over pose, armed with a gun..looks, to me anyway, like a large version of a spike rifle.

Pyrovore --metal kit, 60MM base, like an oversized biovore, with a bigger weapon on the back.

Venomthrope -- the floating lictor/malanthrope/zoanthrope thing with all the lash whips we've seen.

Gaunts to be repackaged, maybe some recutting of the sprues, minor changes perhaps. Less in the box than now though...

reds8n wrote:The first wave/new kits for the Tyranids are

Plastic Ravenors, Trygon -- which enables you to build any of three variants AFAIK, and gargoyles.

Metal Hive Guard - akin to Tyrant guard, similar "stepped" helmet like head and crouched over pose, armed with a gun..looks, to me anyway, like a large version of a spike rifle.

Pyrovore --metal kit, 60MM base, like an oversized biovore, with a bigger weapon on the back.

Venomthrope -- the floating lictor/malanthrope/zoanthrope thing with all the lash whips we've seen.

Gaunts to be repackaged, maybe some recutting of the sprues, minor changes perhaps. Less in the box than now though...

And I'll confirm all of the above, as I just got off the phone from GW. Lots of other little tidbits that my brain is bleeding from. I seriously don't want to know just how nasty this book is going to be. Other tidbits (keep as a rumor, I dont have a codex yet):
1-3 Carnifex per heavy slot
zoanthropes to elites
warriors as troops, possibly with an extra wound and +1 to current armor save
Broodlord as an upgrade to a troop.
Tyrant probably back to the only HQ choice.
Deathleapers and the Redterror in the codex.

I hope the pyrovore doesn't have goofball tardface syndrome like the biovore does.

If the Ravener sprues have been seen, why have people posted pictures of them yet?!

reds8n wrote:The first wave/new kits for the Tyranids are

Plastic Ravenors, Trygon -- which enables you to build any of three variants AFAIK, and gargoyles.

Metal Hive Guard - akin to Tyrant guard, similar "stepped" helmet like head and crouched over pose, armed with a gun..looks, to me anyway, like a large version of a spike rifle.

Pyrovore --metal kit, 60MM base, like an oversized biovore, with a bigger weapon on the back.

Venomthrope -- the floating lictor/malanthrope/zoanthrope thing with all the lash whips we've seen.

Gaunts to be repackaged, maybe some recutting of the sprues, minor changes perhaps. Less in the box than now though...

Even putting aside the repackaged gaunt box, this is a huge first wave, hem... invasion.
Lot of new stuff, it's above average, compared to what we get accustomed to.

Aduro wrote:If the Ravener sprues have been seen, why have people posted pictures of them yet?!

None Disclosure Agreements and such. As you've might have noticed, GW has been really tight on leaks and sparse on spreading information lately. But the sprue contents are from people with reliable reputations, and has been confirmed by others.

mikhaila wrote:
1-3 Carnifex per heavy slot
zoanthropes to elites
warriors as troops, possibly with an extra wound and +1 to current armor save
Broodlord as an upgrade to a troop.
Tyrant probably back to the only HQ choice.
Deathleapers and the Redterror in the codex.

God, you aren't making this wait any easier for me.

Oh goody

reds8n wrote:Gaunts to be repackaged, maybe some recutting of the sprues, minor changes perhaps. Less in the box than now though...

How can they be less? they are only 8 each now. So going to a 10 for $25 box?
When they should be priced for a horde.

skrulnik wrote:

reds8n wrote:Gaunts to be repackaged, maybe some recutting of the sprues, minor changes perhaps. Less in the box than now though...

How can they be less? they are only 8 each now. So going to a 10 for $25 box?
When they should be priced for a horde.

Will be 2 boxes, 1 termagaunt, 1 for hormagaunts. 12 in a box for 24.00

Good thing I already have a ton of them then. $52 after taxes for a decent sized unit of gaunts is a steep.

Good thing I already have a ton of them then. $52 after taxes for a decent sized unit of gaunts is a steep.

That is less then it is now per model and you don't have to get a guant type you don't want. Granted there is rumors the upgrade sprue is direct only so it isn't all rosy. I'd still take the rumored box over the current box of 8 and 8 with upgrade sprue though.

Any info yet when the codex will be released? officail date. I cant wait i have all these nidds that want to be redone.

Why would they make the upgrade sprue unavailable with the flipping box it was made for in the first place? Thats silly. Therefore it will happen.

24 per 12 is $2 per T3 wound you're putting on the table, no upgrade sprue(stupid, but its GW) If you split the price in half of the current box, then divide it by 8, it's more like $2.17 per guy with an upgrade sprue. I'd take a couple extra dollars per box for the upgrade sprue to be included rather than have to order the dang thing for every 12 gaunts I want to use. The new box is rationally split so that if you want to use only one sort of gaunt over the other, you aren't left with dozens of guys you'd rather not have bought just to get the things you want. I use a mix, so it isn't much of an issue with me.

am i the only person that uses both body types for either gaunt type? e.g. I've got "jumping" spine gaunts and walking hormagaunts?

Granted, it won't matter soon, but I never saw this as a problem, especially considering how boring and static the walking gaunts are.

I also use both body types for both.

I'd take a couple extra dollars per box for the upgrade sprue to be included rather than have to order the dang thing for every 12 gaunts I want to use.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'd rather pay 24 for stuff I know I want and not 35 for stuff I may want (or that would prolly still need an extra set of upgrade sprue or scytals to make good use of).

I do hope they do the right thing and include the proper upgrades in a recut sprue and not make it direct only (agree that is silly). We don't know for sure what they are doing with it at this point though.

Without the upgrade sprue, you can make termagants and hormagaunts. The upgrade sprue allows you to add most of the biomorphs as well as devourers or spinefists to your gaunts, so if you so chose you could make any mix of gaunts out of the box unless you wanted more than 8 of a specific type.

Wow. Well, I'll be happy to turn my spare spinefists and devourers over to worthy recipients, then.

Horde armies have gotten really expensive. Of only GW's pricing-up of powerful figs also worked the other way, making horde grunts affordable. Oh well.

I wonder if the armor-up on Warriors will make them able to achieve AS 3+ with an upgrade? That's be a good first. With +1 wound, that might even balance out their new vulnerability to instant death. I do also wonder whether the Catalyst power might get modified to allow immunity to ID as a special power though.

If they get to near plague-marine levels of toughness, then it would require instant death weapons to reliably take them out reliably. That would be much better than the current situation, where they are so vulnerable to just about anything that eternal warrior is necessary just to keep them on the table.

Well currently they are awesome against things like melta/heavy single shot weapons. It's the anti infantry guns that take their toll. Which just means more big guns firing at the carnifexes/ tyrants.

If we could get them to a 3+sv, 2 wounds, FNP and T5...that's pretty solid. Of course we should be prepared to pay the points. I foresee sick abuse of wound allocation rule.

I dont know about this, if anybody picked up on it or what but the big bug in the backof this pichttp://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=6500072a

i was on the site and saw it is this gonna be int he new dex? I know people use them in appocalypse its not the tyragon I think it starts with an H

Any word on Genstealers
Elite or Troop?

@lordbug I don't see anything new in that pic. two tyrants, one which has some light conversion work, a forgeworld hiderodule (sp?) some lictors, a few warriors, one with wings (???) 3 zones, 4 guard, 2 carnis and 3 lictors. i may be missing something though.

no it was the hiderodule they say he has whats in the codex so I figured they meant the new one thanks anyways

That guy doesn't have at least one of EVERY unit in the codex in that picture, so that pic doesn't tell us anything at all.

No, it says he has one of every unit TYPE. MC = check; Infantry = check; Jump infantry = check; Beasts = check; swarm = check.

Easily overlooked but obvious once you look past your nose.

99120106017 Tyranid Battleforce 46 Fig Box 5-Dec-09 $105.00
99060106064 Tyranid Spore Mines 9 Fig Blister 16 Jan-10 $16.50
60030106003 Codex: Tyranids (English)96pp 16-Jan-10 $25.00
99120106016 Tyranid Ravener Brood 3 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $44.50
99120106018 Tyranid Gargoyle Brood 10 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $29.00
99120106019 Tyranid Trygon / Mawloc 1 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $49.50
99110106063 Tyranid Pyrovore 1 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $33.00
99120106021 Tyranid Termagant Brood 12 Fig Box 12-Dec-09 $24.75
99120106020 Tyranid Hormagaunt Brood 12 Fig Box 12-Dec-09 $24.75
9906010606201 Tyranid Venomthrope 1 Fig Blister 16-Jan-10 $20.00
9906010606101 Tyranid Hive Guard 1 Fig Blister 16-Jan-10 $20.00

whats a mawloc?
pyrovore waaay over priced.

One can only assume it to be the previously mentioned Trygon variant.

$45 for 3 Ravenors. feth that.

reds8n wrote:99120106017 Tyranid Battleforce 46 Fig Box 5-Dec-09 $105.00
99060106064 Tyranid Spore Mines 9 Fig Blister 16 Jan-10 $16.50
60030106003 Codex: Tyranids (English)96pp 16-Jan-10 $25.00
99120106016 Tyranid Ravener Brood 3 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $44.50
99120106018 Tyranid Gargoyle Brood 10 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $29.00
99120106019 Tyranid Trygon / Mawloc 1 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $49.50
99110106063 Tyranid Pyrovore 1 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $33.00
99120106021 Tyranid Termagant Brood 12 Fig Box 12-Dec-09 $24.75
99120106020 Tyranid Hormagaunt Brood 12 Fig Box 12-Dec-09 $24.75
9906010606201 Tyranid Venomthrope 1 Fig Blister 16-Jan-10 $20.00
9906010606101 Tyranid Hive Guard 1 Fig Blister 16-Jan-10 $20.00

Youch!

Some scary prices in there!

And where's the Gavthrope?

(Ha! I couldn't resist! Again.)

wow! how do they go from $29 for a box of 10 gargoyles, then $44.50 for 3 Raveners. those raveners are going to have to be huge or someting...

45 bucks for 3 models... dodgy.

Interested to see all this stuff though, although that venomthrope looks a bit... dodgy too lol.
Hoping there will be some bits in the mix i can co-opt for some hybrids!

$45 for 3... sounds like GW's given them good rules and want to capitalize.

their pricing is consistent, fast attack boxes that come in groups of three are always that price. just like space marine bikes.

i hope they are nasty and i can't wait to see the new models.

Does anyone think it is odd that the trygon is on 50 dollars? Do you think they will release an apocalypse model like a heirdule (sp)?

That's fine by me, I guess. I've been wanting to use Raveners since the 3rd edition codex came out, but they've always sucked donkey nuts. I'm planning on dumping a ton of cash after this codex release anyway, so bring on the price tags, GW! I'll suck it up to FINALLY have usable Gargoyles and Raveners.

@acreedon - yeah, i guess your right. and i didn't realize the current ravenors are $20 a pop now. so this is actually a decrease in their price. well i've already got 1000pts in ravenors alone, but i'll still pick up one box of them. guess it's just a bit of a shock seeing all the prices together like that.

So they are just going to repackage three metal Ravonors in a box set? I mean, I dig the price decrease, but was hoping for plastic.

In any case, thanks for the info. Can't wait to see the new codex.

Being a veteran tyranid player (15 years almost) I have to say ouch on those prices!

I think the ravenors will be badass units, so I am glad I have my old metal ones (12 figures) painted up now! (thats like $180 worth according to the new prices)

I will stick with my 36 2nd edition metal gargoyles though (2nd edition ones are much easier to assemble and use then the 3rd edition ones).

Anyone else ever thought of their unpainted 40k figures like gold? They keep going up in value (according to GW)

Nick

Fizyx wrote:So they are just going to repackage three metal Ravonors in a box set? I mean, I dig the price decrease, but was hoping for plastic.

In any case, thanks for the info. Can't wait to see the new codex.

No, they are plastic.

thats poopy

Chapterhouse wrote:Being a veteran tyranid player (15 years almost) I have to say ouch on those prices!

I think the ravenors will be badass units, so I am glad I have my old metal ones (12 figures) painted up now! (thats like $180 worth according to the new prices)

I will stick with my 36 2nd edition metal gargoyles though (2nd edition ones are much easier to assemble and use then the 3rd edition ones).

Anyone else ever thought of their unpainted 40k figures like gold? They keep going up in value (according to GW)

Nick

Well, theres been a talk about that too in finland. Actually the value of Minis doesnt go up (unless some collector wants to buy your 2nd ed. Golbins on eBay) exep for the special and limited characters. Think about Harry the Hammer on eBay 10 yeas from now!

Great that the Nids are being updated, they need it.
The prices are creepy...

Via Warseer from.. around....

Venomthrope, HIve Guard, Gargoyle and Ravener.

They look awesome!!!
Love the look of the hiveguard and gargoyles!!!!

I don't see creepy prices...
Raveners are what now, 20$? So where's the problem that they go down in price? Sure, they are just 3 plastic models similar toi the size of warriors which cost 35$. So the extra tenner is freakin you out?

The Traygon at 50$ is rather cheap, imo. I would have guessed it costed 50€ (that's 75$) like the land raider.

10 Gargoyles for 29$ is a good deal. They are freakin 13,50$ for two now!

So please, just because there are no other rumors to ... about, don't get crazy on the prices.

Greets
Schepp himself

Venomthrope: When Fexs and Zoenthropes fornicate, with some whipping involved.
Hive Guard: Dakka Guards!
Gargoyles: hopefully not wonky and full of ‘tipping over…doubt it.
Ravenors….at least not metal…

Though, I don’t mind the new dex, always nice to see what’s next in line when codex creep is involved…maybe the Tyranids will be the new Daemons…or Lost and the Damned….er…./shrug.

Ravener looks to be following the line of the Warriors, which I love, so he's awesome.

Gargoyle looks cool too, though I notice they moved the wings from middle limb to top limb. And they gave purpose to the rear limbs it looks like, as an extra support for wings.

The Hive Guard looks ok I guess. I think I like the current Tyrant Guard better.

I'm still up in the air about the Venomthrope. It looks like a bad anime cliche.

Ravener looks decent, pretty much exactly as expected.

Venomthrope I've already said looks horrible.

Hive Guard...I know it's meant to be a version of Tyrant Guard but seriously, I expected more of a change- and with a gun that long on a metal model, it looks like it may tip over.

I was hoping for something a bit more radical I guess, but Raveners still look great.

I don't think I like that gargoyle, the arms seem tacked on. I love the new ravener head though.

Interestingggg looking stuff - not sure how to take it heh.

I predict nobody buys raveners or pyrovores at these prices.

I'm buying both a venomthrope and a pyrovore just so I can use their names during the course of the game. Also, who wouldn't take at least 5 minutes making jokes during the assault phase with a venomthrope?

ph34r wrote:I predict nobody buys raveners or pyrovores at these prices.

Again, why would we NOT buy Raveners when they are CHEAPER now by 25%? 3 for $45 is a helluva lot better than 3 for $60, I don't see a need to complain about the price.

What's the big fuss over the Pyrovore's price when we ain't even seen the thing yet? The current Biovore is just under $30, and the Pyro's supposed to be a bigger version so of course it's going to cost more. Some of these prices are kind of high yeah, but they're right in line with everything else people have already been paying for GW stuff, so I fail to see how people are surprised or act like this is something new and unseen before.

I like the old ravernor head better, the gargoyles ok, but i really don't like the tirant guard i like the curent one though it could just be bad posing

That Ravener looks good, but as they haven't changed its style, that's no surprise. The Gargoyls I like, but there is no indication that they will have an melee option so a pass for me.
The Lash-thingy is still lame x2 and the Hive Guard is meh. A Guard with a gun. Woopey!

Greets
Schepp himself

Fething sweet!

I hope the trygon is 45.50 and full size that would be frakin awsome.

Love the Zoat-y goodness of the Hive Guard. Only one I'm disappointed with is the Gargs. They just kept the existing design, and it wasn't that strong of a design, IMO.

Love the new gargoyle wings

Kind of disapointed here.

Venomthrope needs to have a new back sculpted on it, love swirls.
Pyroguard needs a completely new body sculpted for that cool weapon, the model still sucks like other guards
Gargoyles look like someone cutted them in half, are those little fingers in the back the vestigial legs? I love the wings and thats it.
Raveners...ok I guess

I find these really boring and uninspired really.

Mattlov wrote:

ph34r wrote:I predict nobody buys raveners or pyrovores at these prices.

Again, why would we NOT buy Raveners when they are CHEAPER now by 25%? 3 for $45 is a helluva lot better than 3 for $60, I don't see a need to complain about the price.

Unless they are seriously beefy, they are not worth $15 for a plastic model. With the old cadian boxes I could get 10 guardsmen for $17.50. I may not be as tolerating of new pricing as you, but a $20 model going down to $15 to me is just going from "ridiculous" to "pretty bad".

There are always alternative stores, people...

As hilarious as continually bumping maelstrom games is (which these days is not so much, it was funny for about a week) 15-20% off bad prices is still bad, especially considering how many items are becoming direct only.

Bah, Dakka isn't as fun as it used to be.

ph34r said...

As hilarious as continually bumping maelstrom games is (which these days is not so much, it was funny for about a week) 15-20% off bad prices is still bad, especially considering how many items are becoming direct only.

Uhm, maybe that is why GW keeps sending more to the direct sales......

If the retailers don't want to make the extra $$$, then I know GW won't be against it....


For the record....direct only and the cancellation of the Bitz program are 2 things that I think GW has made a HUGE mistake in.....

ph34r wrote:As hilarious as continually bumping maelstrom games is (which these days is not so much, it was funny for about a week) 15-20% off bad prices is still bad, especially considering how many items are becoming direct only.

Im tempted to put that in my siggy because i agree with you 120% !

I love this
Perople complain that the ravs are overpriced, yet they are cheaper now and look better, how would that be a problem?

The trygon is full sized me thinks, and i shall be buying atleast 2

Pyrovore: Ill have to buy one, simply for the sake of it.

The gargs dont look half bad, and those wings could come in handy, lets face it, at some point everyone needs human sized wings, we now have them in plastic.

Not keen on the tyrant guards, they look like they are about to fall over.
If thats just a bad pic then ill take that back, but so far i think ill be using the 1st edition tyrants as guards.

also, love that termies and horms are in different box's.
I only ever bother with shooty termies, so a few broods with dev's sound nice to me, without spare horms.

Shame theres no upgrade sprue for stealers though, they need a biomorph sprue so you dont have to get 10 box's just to make 1 unit with decent morphs.

*sighs* I think the majority of you guys will NEVER be satisfied
Those are looking pretty decent to my eyes anyways. Cant wait to buy some of those for my wife

KingCracker, You mean the present for her, which is actually for you haha

But back on topic,

To me these look great compared to some of the older versions they had up and running. The pricing isnt that scary either to be fair. There may be some dissapointing models though, lets wait and see !

How gargoyle land?

Missed out about the venomthropes
they dont look half bad, a bit off balance (guessing they fly though, well, hover)
Could have some interesting rules, possibly a hybrid of the mala and zoan.
With any luck they will be used

Wolf wrote:KingCracker, You mean the present for her, which is actually for you haha

A present for her, actually for me, wouldn't be toy soldiers.

It'd be something more like crotchless panties.

My "opinion" of the 4 with pics:

Toxathrope , as a model itself , its not that awful. I think the main disappointment came from how cool we think the FW one is , and
personally im rather surprised that GW sculptor doesnt know how to capture the essence that made malanthrope good.

Hive Guard , i like it. Doesnt anyone else think it looks like those Zoats?

Plastic Gargoyles... its atleast plastic and not awful looking... it looks "cheap" i guess some can argue well... they are cheap in points so it works.

Ravener: Plastic kit is definitely good idea . The sculpt looks ok , not much different than the metal ones.
The one complaint i have is , i think the head looks too similar to Tyranid Warriors.

Over all thoughts:
They have made the Tyranids more "convenient" to field . But over all i feel not much has changed visually .

Luna, nothing visually has changed just yet, that is until people start fielding a new breed of nidzilla like this :

HQ - flyrant
HQ - Tyrant, 3 guards

Elite: Barbed fex
Elite: Barbed fex
Elite: Screamer killer

Troop: WoN gaunts
Troop: WoN gaunts

Heavy: Trygon
Heavy: Trygon
Heavy: Trygon


I see this being a problem considering we now have a model bigger than a fex, with the same profile, that has 6 talons and has a ranged attack, it can deepstrike (tunnel) and its fething quick!

I think it may be time to go back to my nids and expand a bit more

LunaHound wrote:The one complaint i have is , i think the head looks too similar to Tyranid Warriors.

This. Hopefully, I'll see the price of the metals drop so I can use those style heads on the plastic bodies.

Branderic wrote:How gargoyle land?

The same way a Harridan lands: it doesn't. Gargoyles are brought in and out of hive ships by clinging to the underside of a Harridan.

Picture is a little grainy on, well, all four of them, but I'm pretty sure I see the side mounted mandibles on the Raveners?

I'm glad that the gargoyles don't look too different. I've already got a dozen and wouldn't want too much of a jump between them.

Shooty tyrant guard is ok but real nid players use melee tyrants anyway.

I'm looking forward to fielding a dozen or so raveners if possible.

In all the new models are nice. Can't wait for the big stuff!!!

Toxathingy... or Venomwhatsit.. the strange wannabe Malanthrope with the whippy arms. Still not a fan. Really it's not the whippy things - it's the totally OTT spines on its back. Looks like an exaggerated parody of a Tyranid.

Ravener... meh. Ok, sure, it's plastic. I have 12 already. I'll pass.

Gargoyle - frickin' sweet!!!!!! Plastic Gargs are a God-send (but the arms are weird as Shummy said).

Trygon/Mawloc - Still waiting for that pre-release price rise like the Valk. And, seriously, Mawloc? Pyrovore, Venomthrope and Mawloc. Someone's run out of ideas for names. At least Carnifex means something and isn't just a mashup of words.

Term/Horm Box - 12 per box. Good Games Workshop. I guess they figured even they couldn't sell a box of 8 'Gaunts for the price of a Ork Boyz box.

Hive Guard - Of all the new units, this intrigues me the most. The the hell is it armed with? What does it do? Is it a replacement for Tyrant Guard or a completely new thing you can take as well?

And more Spore Mines - whoop-de-gak. I'm sure most Tyranid players already I have several blisters, plus went out of their way to get the plastic ones form the Battle for McDonald's set. The other cool thing about the Battle for McDonald's was the fact that it came with that big spore/tunnel entry thing. I've got two and use them as Biovores because the actual Biovore model is so horrid.

Anyway, hopefully better pics soon.

ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think I like that gargoyle, the arms seem tacked on. I love the new ravener head though.

I see what you mean. It's kind've like they're got a flying big... and now let's tack some arms on. Maybe this'll be the place 'Nid players put all those extended carapace sections they've been collecting over the years.

reds8n wrote:99120106019 Tyranid Trygon = $49.50

Now that's a very fair price for the model.

If GW ever gets my DoW army back on track, I'll buy a couple for conversion materials.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

reds8n wrote:99120106019 Tyranid Trygon = $49.50

Now that's a very fair price for the model.

If GW ever gets my DoW army back on track, I'll buy a couple for conversion materials.

What if... GW says 1 week from now " oops thats a pricing mistake , it'll be $58.50 "

Still cheaper than FW (I think).

Schepp himself wrote:The Gargoyls I like, but there is no indication that they will have an melee option so a pass for me.

You know, I've never had the models to run Gargoyles en masse. At 10 points for flyers with one regular S3 attack plus one bio-plasma attack and a S4 gun for, say, shooting down Speeders, and Ld. 10 to boot they seemed a decent buy even without a CC enhancement. Am I wrong there?

As for the models, not a fan of moving the wing to the top limb, nor of the bulkier shoulder-joint. I liked the spindly look of the metal models, especially the vestigial hook-like lower limbs, and the wings looked better too. If there's no new CC option for them, I think I'll just buy up a lot of the old metals on eBay. It's another proof that plastics are great for replacing bad metals or really old plastics, but they shouldn't mess with classic and beautiful sculpts just for the sake of change (Daemonettes, new Chaos knights, etc.). They have so many great models but so much other stuff to fix- why not concentrate on, say, the fuggly Biovore?

@Luna: GW already decided that they're good on revenue for Q4, hence pushing the Nid release to Q1. Clever, eh?
____

@Lukus: $58 is cheaper than FW, but not as desirable as $50.
____

@Savnock: The wing at the very top shoulder makes more sense to me, from a biological standpoint.

If you're a Tyranid fan, here's some info from The War Store on the Battleforce. Given the source, this is reliable.

From http://www.thewarstore.com/

Tyranids Battleforce Unboxed!!!December 2nd, 2009
There has been some confusion as to what exactly is going to be included in the new ‘nid box.
Well we have one and we opened it up. Here is what it contained:
3 Tyranid Warriors
8 Geanstealers
16 Hormogaunts
16 Termagaunts
3 Ripper Swarms
and 6 gaunt accessory sprues

So the extra 8 Hormogaunts & 8 Gaunts trade for the removed Carnifex? Easy!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hive Guard - Of all the new units, this intrigues me the most. The the hell is it armed with?

Looks like a revolver style spike rifle to me!

As a hard-core veteran tyranid player I need to chime in.

The Venomthrope, toxinthrope, err whatever horrible name it has, is ugh.. Im not a big fan of the Malanthrope and that new bug just doesnt cut it for me. (Of course I still have 2nd edition Carnifexes, Tyrants and yes 1st edition Termagants (one is giving the finger).

Happy about the sub-50 dollar Trygon. I sold my Forgeworld model on Ebay for $150 a few months ago in anticipation of this move. I mean its GW over priciness, but hey its better then the FW alternative.

Hive Guard... err WTF, did a Horse and Tyrant Guard get all jiggity with the "monkey loving" and this is the result? I think I will use my 3rd edition Tyrant Guard and convert some with guns...

Gargoyles... cool they are in plastic. I never liked the new sculpt and bought over 46 of the 2nd edition metal ones, they work fine thanks (hey they were 2.50 a pop.)

New Tyranid Raveners.. I think they are overpriced. So what if the metals were 20$, that was GW anal mayhem at its worst, the new plastics at 15$ each is still GW anal mayhem only now they are giving us a reach-around.

I am still excited for the new codex though, maybe I can use my 12 metal Ravenors.

BTW guys... If you mix the 3rd edition and 4th edition raveners parts (heads, arms, etc) they come out pretty awesome (since you can get 3rd edition and probably 4th edition raveners cheaper now).

JD21290 wrote:
Shame theres no upgrade sprue for stealers though, they need a biomorph sprue so you dont have to get 10 box's just to make 1 unit with decent morphs.

Aherm, we are working on "Feeder Tendril" 'stealer heads (new but nice design) and when the codex comes out and we see what players want and need, we will be working on more bits.

So dont lose hope yet.

I thought I would run out of money the next two month but not a single model intrigues me to buy it. Thumbs up for the plastics maybe I pick up some Gragoyls anyway. So all hopes for some awesomness pending on the Pyrovore.

Chapterhouse, any pics on those heads? Really need some of those...

reds8n wrote:Via Warseer from.. around....

Venomthrope, HIve Guard, Gargoyle and Ravener.

You're making my boycott stance awful hard to maintain, Red.

I like all the models. Here's hoping I like the rules.

I honestly don't like them enough to be excited. The Ravener looks like a simple switch from metal to plastic (and hopefully comes with the rending claws everyone wanted last time around). The Gargoyle has a neat style going on, but it uses the relatively bulky termagant arms for the fleshborer which is jarring. The zoat guard looks fairly 'tarded though.

I guess the blessing is that we have absolutely no idea how things will actually play out and all this is pure speculation.

I'm still not sold on the whippy-arm Lictoanthrope. If it had a tail section that looked like it could actually support the thing and move around at an alarming pace, it wouldn't be a bad model. As it is, it looks very silly. If it were plastic I'd simply cut it at the waist and use Ravener tails or something.

Did anyone else notice that the head crest on the Gargoyles went from a pterodactyl style to a horn growing from the middle of the head? Maybe it's just the picture, but it looks strange.

Railguns wrote:The zoat guard looks fairly 'tarded though.

So that's what that model reminded me of!

The gargoyles look like an improvement, the raveners slightly less so. Not really a big fan of the lash-guy. The model will probably be unbalanced, and the tail looks kind of pathetic, like it's balancing on it cobra-style as opposed to effortlessly gliding through the air like the malanthrope.

Try to remember everyone that these pics aren't the best quality...though I have to admit the "chimneys" on the venomthrope look hugely/grossly out of proportion.

I really like what I'm seeing here. While the Toxathrope looks like an absolute nightmare of balancing, I think the design is pretty cool. Raveners look a bit crisper than the metal ones, which is a plus. Gargoyles look a lot better to me - was never a fan of the pterodactyl crest on their heads. I will agree that the arms look a little tacked on though. The Zoat/Hive Guard looking guy needs a better picture to really tell what's going on. Here's hoping for a higher-res image in WD or something soon.

Brother SRM wrote:I really like what I'm seeing here. While the Toxathrope looks like an absolute nightmare of balancing, I think the design is pretty cool. Raveners look a bit crisper than the metal ones, which is a plus. Gargoyles look a lot better to me - was never a fan of the pterodactyl crest on their heads. I will agree that the arms look a little tacked on though. The Zoat/Hive Guard looking guy needs a better picture to really tell what's going on. Here's hoping for a higher-res image in WD or something soon.

What he said!
Seeing these new pics, I kinda like the look of the toxawhatever.

Symbio Joe wrote:I thought I would run out of money the next two month but not a single model intrigues me to buy it. Thumbs up for the plastics maybe I pick up some Gragoyls anyway. So all hopes for some awesomness pending on the Pyrovore.

Agreed, I find the garg wings the only "interesting" thing on these new releases even if to small for that creature.. no legs+ small wings=splat... I cannot justify getting the zoatguard just for the gun. And even then, the gargs needs to have heavy converting... vestigial legs are horrible and something more in the line of current bats would be much more apreciated... I think GW played "safe" on these new releases and even if they are acceptable now, lets not forget we will only get new bugs on next codex years from now...
Hope Trygon makes me less bored.

I'll just re-paint my Zoats for Hive guard. Sweet!

-K

I was hoping they would re-sculpt the Tyrant guard to be more upright with large, flat shield plates that he could raise to actually shield the Tyrant from damage and forearms that didn't look like greenstuff sausages with Tyranid details sculpted in. I am disappointed.

Railguns wrote:I was hoping they would re-sculpt the Tyrant guard to be more upright with large, flat shield plates that he could raise to actually shield the Tyrant from damage and forearms that didn't look like greenstuff sausages with Tyranid details sculpted in. I am disappointed.

So, basically, you want the horrendous 3rd edition versions back?

I like the current line backer looking ones.

No offence to the poster of the pictures on any level, but still having to put up with only having such crappy pictures so close to the release is a joke.

Included in this battleforce are:

-3 Warriors
-16 Termagaunts
-16 Hormagaunts
-8 Genestealers
-Ripper Swarms


hm.

No, the third edition guard were spindly messes on legs with random lumps and goofy grins. I don't like how the current ones look like curled up, short gorillas with middle arms that can't reach past their face. I was hoping that they would resemble the concept art more; in the art they "stood" upright on long forearms and extended back legs, and could fold their arms forward so that the long plates running back past their elbows on the forearms formed a wall of chitin.

PS. Thats not to say that the overall design is bad, per se, it's just that it wasn't executed well enough in model form.

RogueMarket wrote:Included in this battleforce are:

-3 Warriors
-16 Termagaunts
-16 Hormagaunts
-8 Genestealers
-Ripper Swarms


hm.

hm... its all troop choices... oh and the warriors... but can't they be troops now anyway? I think its decent for a starter box, just lacking gusto.

George Spiggott wrote:No offence to the poster of the pictures on any level, but still having to put up with only having such crappy pictures so close to the release is a joke.

I say blame GW. Its their fault. If they wanted us to look at good pictures they could give them to us.

The real question with the Venomthrope is how many people are going to convert it going all hentai on a Sister of Battle?

The pics were taken with a cell phone camera from an actual release pamphlet so there are clear pics out there, just not available to "everyone" yet.

Be thankful we even have seen this much this far out.

Sounds a pretty good battleforce to me. No big beasties perhaps, but a very solid Tyranid force for beginners.

Aduro wrote:The real question with the Venomthrope is how many people are going to convert it going all hentai on a Sister of Battle?

Would go good with my tophat-wearing cane-weilding bad-toothed "carnie"-fex methinks.

Need to see the codex to see what units are useless first though

Everything that is good now will be useless once the book comes out. Some of the bad things now will remain bad. Most of the new kits will have amazing rules, but there will be one or two stinkers to throw us off the trail.

Does the Hive Gaurds gun remind anyone else of Riffs vampire gun from Sluggy Freelance?

I'm likeing the plastic Raveners. No more anoying metal!

Reminds me more of a Zoat, and honestly I think that's kinda cool. I like it when long-abandoned concepts are revamped and made new again. Doesn't always work, but it's nice to see them trying.

Fateweaver wrote:Be thankful we even have seen this much this far out.

Why should we be 'thankful'?

They could have up until this point been claiming that the new codex is a mystery that noone saw coming.

"everything you know is a lie"
All that means is we can expect more baloney soon.

Any One got a pic of the Mawloc?

when is GW going to release pictures??

Chances are the only pics you will see before advanced orders will be leaked ones.
GW tends to keep everything in the dark, which does nothing for them really.

I'm surprised no pictures of the Trygon have popped up as of yet.

Weren't the Trygon pics leaked a long time ago?

Answer: Essentially identical to the FW version.

Just got an email from miniwargaming about new nids with the trygon listed there so we get some pics soon or we will need to wait for white dawft

You remember how last Xmas GW sent out that email showing the forthcoming Stompa..... I think the Trygon could well be similar, unless GW let something slip.

...funny how the delivery of the books which would feature said new model has all been put back until post New Year eh ? Almost like the first picture of it they want you to see is a nice pristine professionally done shot, not some blurry phonecam one.

... admittedly I suspect we'd be quite happy either way but...

It's pretty much identical to the FW version, or at least one of the variants is. The differences aren't huge for each version.Model wise anyway.

reds8n wrote:Almost like the first picture of it they want you to see is a nice pristine professionally done shot, not some blurry phonecam one.

If they were more forthcoming and open with upcoming release info, there wouldn't be such a demand for blurry White Dwarf photos now would there?

I got newsletter from miniwargaming. It said which miniatures are realesed. I didn't want to make a new thread because with my luck they have already been said:
From the miniwargaming website:
I just received an update from Games Workshop as to what will be coming out in January for the Tyranid, and I wanted to pass this on to you right away.

First off, all of these new products will be coming out January 16, 2010, so be ready to get your piece!

Here are the new products:

Tyranid Codex
Tyranid Ravener Brood - 3 Plastic Figures
Tyranid Gargoyle Brood - 10 Plastic Figures
Tyranid Trygon - 1 Plastic Figure
Tyranid Pyrovore - 1 Metal Figure
Tyranid Termagant Brood - 12 Plastic Figures
Tyranid Hormagaunt Brood - 12 Plastic Figures
Tyranid Venomthrope - 1 Metal Figure
Tyranid Hive Guard - 1 Metal Figure

Also, we just got the new Tyranid Battleforces in.
(The Battleforce has
-3 Warriors
-16 Termagaunts
-16 Hormagaunts
-8 Genestealers
-Ripper Swarms)

In regards of the new Battleforce, I apogolize myself but HAHAA!
But plastic Garoyles and Raveners! I'm almost happy for you 'Nid players

Awesome...just awesome...

I wonder what else is coming

hi will hav you checked the pictures?on page 16

Wait a fething tick.. The new Nid battle force is €80,-- again, as with the Woof force, but the Guard battle forces use the "new" pricing for battle forces, €85,--

Why are Guard players paying five Euros more than the rest?

Mabe some cool new zonethropes


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yes Brookm why are the guard force more than the rest


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Awsome

BrookM wrote:Wait a fething tick.. The new Nid battle force is €80,-- again, as with the Woof force, but the Guard battle forces use the "new" pricing for battle forces, €85,--

Why are Guard players paying five Euros more than the rest?

You're right! WTF?

Does anyone know if the Hive Guard is a replacement to the Tyrant Guard? If so I'm pissed.


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And is that a strangleweb on the Hive Guard?
?

I think that they may be re-naming the tyrant guard and just giving them the option to have guns. That would be cool, though this is just speculation.

So I can stop punching holes in the wall?

Never stop punching the wall. Never stop. No matter how many people tell you can't keep punching holes in the wall all your life, keep at it. One day you'll be the greatest wall holer, and you can look back at those naysayers and say, "I've never given up on my dream, I've never let others tell me what to do. Now I stand at the summit of my achievements, looking down at all others. No one can bring me down. No one."

From TTGN:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/12/04/31882

* Tyranid Termagant Brood (12) $24.75
* Tyranid Hormagaunt Brood (12) $24.75

$2 a gaunt, that's not bad. I wonder if they still come with the upgrade sprue or not though, that's the real kicker.

Fateweaver wrote:Be thankful we even have seen this much this far out.

This far out?

GW is supposed to have a 3 month rumor window. We're now at about, what, 6 weeks from release, and this is all we have?

Dont get Carnifex in new battleforce but get 8 more gaunts and 8 more hormagaunts!

I'm guessing the trygon is in the codex then? i mean they're sending it out in the black boxes (according to a certain someone from warseer)

Why do we all think it is a tyrgon?

It may be a scythed hirodule.

No, the fan base ASSUMES GW has always had a 3 month window because that's about how far out people were willing to compromise their NDA and risk losing jobs.

Not since, oh SH, has GW had a 3 month window. Look what the 3 month window did in the past...5 weeks before the IG codex hit shelves you could compile all the "rumours" into a perfectly playable stand alone codex complete with points costs and rules and it was 98% accurate, accurate enough that in non-tournaments you could use it.

Ork codex was more or less 98% known about 4 weeks out. The black box copies of codeciies which are meant to be shown in stores only get more or less posted on the web in their entirety because GW store owners or FLGS store owners feel they need to give the finger to GW and say "okay customers, this is the final 'Nid codex that I'm only supposed to show in the store but go ahead and take pics of it and dictate it verbatim into your iphone and then post it up on the internet."

Many people say they'd be more excited and more willing to buy a codex if they could download it as a .pdf months before it was due out. I call bullgak on that. I'm willing to bet 80% of you would download the .pdf and as long as tourney organizers and your group allowed it would give a big middle finger to GW and not actually buy the codex. I mean look at the 4 "boycott" threads that have cropped up recently.

So people thinking that GW is "obligated" to give us rumors 3 months out had better look back to the SW codex and realize the hole is being plugged. GW has never made an official statement saying "okay, we are at exactly the 90 day mark, lets release some teaser pics and rules."

I'm led to believe that 90% of the peeps whining about no rules leaks 3 months out whine because LucasArts or Fox Studios or MGM only release 3 minute preview of a movie 6 months from release and not a 60 minute preview of a movie.


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jamunition wrote:Why do we all think it is a tyrgon?

It may be a scythed hirodule.

It's been all but confirmed by plenty of "in the know" sources as the trygon and it's variant.

Those sources have never been wrong.

*Update* New release list has been posted up at Miniwargaming, straight from the GW mouth. Trygon is indeed out in January. That's as official as it gets.

So was this:

99120106019 Tyranid Trygon / Mawloc 1 Fig Box 16-Jan-10 $49.50

posted a bit further up...

The last I heard from my local GW manager was that GW now uses a 6 week window.

Then again said manager is so much out of the loop with rumours that he can be said to be "off-line".

Fateweaver wrote:The pics were taken with a cell phone camera from an actual release pamphlet so there are clear pics out there, just not available to "everyone" yet.

Be thankful we even have seen this much this far out.

No, I will not be thankful that for the fact that the only info or pictures we have from the new codex for far are these grainy pics. Any decent company would have start ramping up the marketing for this release already.

Maybe if people would use a real camera and not some iPhone piece of crap camera we'd get pics as good as the real pamphlet.

Tresson, do you also complain when movie studios only show 3 minutes of a 90 minute movie 6 months in advance and than maybe another 3 minutes within 2 months or less of the movie coming out?

There have been numerous reasons stated many times for GW not revealing 99% of everything more than a month or so out. It's actually smart practice. Could you imagine the nerd rage that would ensue if 9 months ago GW PROMISED 'Nids and then 3 months out from release changed their minds and decided to release Necrons. Sure the Necron players would be happy but it'd piss off the 'Nid players and would generally all around be bad press.

Why the hell do you think companies like Blizz and id software don't put actual release dates anymore but instead say "it'll be done when it's done".

Why do you think GW has not PROMISED a definite release date for DE and look at the negative press they get for saying "DE are being worked on and they'll get released when we are ready."

You complainers aren't happy when GW doesn't show things outside of 3 months but you also complain when they don't promise exact due dates. Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

I, for one, like the new rumor policy.

I remember when the current nid edition was on the pipe, there was lots of infos about models and rules to keep bug fans busy and pumped up with antecipation, we took part on digging lots of infos and the internet was boiling with nid news and interest... Some of you were probably not here and so you cannot make a educated comparison between GW then and now.

Lets just say that today the interest is so low that I cannot be arsed to even dig anything anymore...

Yet I would like to say that I understand people expressing that their lack of interest is relationated with GW silence and I cannot understand the point of you Fateweaver constantly antagonizing people everytime anyone says something they dont like about GW... Since you admire GW silence why dont you do everyone a favour and follow that example.

BrookM wrote:Wait a fething tick.. The new Nid battle force is €80,-- again, as with the Woof force, but the Guard battle forces use the "new" pricing for battle forces, €85,--

Why are Guard players paying five Euros more than the rest?

Supposedly, there's no longer a "set" price for Battleforces--but they're moving towards giving you a more complete force in a box for each Battleforce.

You'll note that "more complete" does not mean "really good", however...or they'd give you a Valkyrie and a tank squadron, along with just two Guard squads to use as Valk vets

JD21290 wrote:Chances are the only pics you will see before advanced orders will be leaked ones.
GW tends to keep everything in the dark, which does nothing for them really.

It does about as much as early release photos "leaked out". You don't really drum up enthusiasm in a relatively captive audience for a subculture product with no broad appeal outside of that audience. You see "leaks" in areas of business with competition and a less static userbase like movies or videogames, games workshop doesn't have the right customer base for leaks to be productive or detrimental.

No, I will not be thankful that for the fact that the only info or pictures we have from the new codex for far are these grainy pics. Any decent company would have start ramping up the marketing for this release already.

Or they have a captive audience and do virtually no actual marketing what so ever as it is. "leaking photos" does little but supplicate (or enrage) a random small population utilizing the internet to find early photos of their plastic men hobby. I wouldn't mind some leaked photos, but leaked rumors based in rules tend to just get out of hand and damage peoples perception of forthcoming products (not that they don't damage themselves upon release anyway).



I'm glad to hear that the raveners will get a plstic multipart kit. The metals were great, but they weren't all that workable, and I loved the models.

Just spotted: The new battleforce is on GW website.


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Oh and bitz sprues are now available...never noticed them before.

And just spotted that the Carnifex on the front of the Battleforce is nowhere to be seen within the Battleforce.

Bit odd don't'cha think?

Well, it was said that there wasn't going to be a fex in the new box. Though could be for 1 of several reasons:

1. GW don't want players to make savings on fexes...they just want us to buy more.
2. Nid's are going to be more of a swarm army and fexes won't be so important to a list.
3. GW reckon everyone has enough fexes already but not enough gaunts.

Actually all 3 seem to link together in a warped GW kind of way.

The Chaos Marine Battleforce has Terminators on the front yet there are none in the box. Battleforces have Codex cover art on them, but there is not necessarily a relation between the cover art and the box contents of the Battleforces.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And just spotted that the Carnifex on the front of the Battleforce is nowhere to be seen within the Battleforce.

Bit odd don't'cha think?

Thats what i said! but then people calls me heresy !

BrassScorpion wrote:The Chaos Marine Battleforce has Terminators on the front yet there are none in the box. Battleforces have Codex cover art on them, but there is not necessarily a relation between the cover art and the box contents of the Battleforces.

Amazing thing to consider, isn't it?

I mean, my Cadian Battleforce I have sitting next to me has a veritable tide of humanity and armour, alongside a massive Lander on the front.

Where's my Lander and my veritable tide of humanity and armoured vehicles?!

They use the Codex art as an easier way for people to identify which battleforce goes with which codex. So I've heard at least.

1. GW don't want players to make savings on fexes...they just want us to buy more.
2. Nid's are going to be more of a swarm army and fexes won't be so important to a list.
3. GW reckon everyone has enough fexes already but not enough gaunts.

Number 1 wouldn't make much sense as they don't lose or save money based on incremental box savings. They lose the same amount equal to whatever the box price discount is no matter what actually comes inside of the box. Two and three seem more likely, though since these boxes are purchased by new players or people starting new armies they don't really logically have many carnifexes yet.

My guess is that the carni couldn't have a cut down sprue for the new box, or that as you said, they're going for a more swarmy army.

And just spotted that the Carnifex on the front of the Battleforce is nowhere to be seen within the Battleforce.

Bit odd don't'cha think?

The guns on the russ box are upside down. Box covers are just meant to look cool, "package contents" are the actual contents.

ShumaGorath wrote:My guess is that the carni couldn't have a cut down sprue for the new box

That's always possible... but then they've gone and added 4 more Gaunt sprues. Granted, they're smaller, but they're not that much smaller.

ShumaGorath wrote:...or that as you said, they're going for a more swarmy army.

Well 'Nidzilla was the last Codex. They've swinging that pendulum away from that and to swarms, so the contents make sense. I'm saying the cover does not.

Box covers are just meant to look cool, "package contents" are the actual contents.

But the 'Fex on this cover is so prominent. So central. To me it's no different to a Guard Battleforce having artwork of a squadron of three Leman Russes, but having no tank inside. I'm not going to say it's 'false advertising' or even that the artwork on the should act as a 'contents' for the product, but it'd be nice if they had something to do with one another.

t the 'Fex on this cover is so prominent. So central. To me it's no different to a Guard Battleforce having artwork of a squadron of three Leman Russes, but having no tank inside. I'm not going to say it's 'false advertising' or even that the artwork on the should act as a 'contents' for the product, but it'd be nice if they had something to do with one another.

Thats why the back and sides have pictures of the assembled contents. The fronts just for reconcilability on a tall store shelf. People will pull it down and look at the back for the real bits.

NAVARRO wrote:I remember when the current nid edition was on the pipe, there was lots of infos about models and rules to keep bug fans busy and pumped up with antecipation, we took part on digging lots of infos and the internet was boiling with nid news and interest... Some of you were probably not here and so you cannot make a educated comparison between GW then and now.

Lets just say that today the interest is so low that I cannot be arsed to even dig anything anymore...

Yet I would like to say that I understand people expressing that their lack of interest is relationated with GW silence and I cannot understand the point of you Fateweaver constantly antagonizing people everytime anyone says something they dont like about GW... Since you admire GW silence why dont you do everyone a favour and follow that example.

You could also get your lazy finger to click the "Ignore" button. You spent all the energy typing up that attack on me but can't hit "ignore?" Wow.

Again, I say not everybody wants to know every rule from every codex 6 months out. It might make some people want the codex and models more but it might also make them want the codex and models less. Yeah I don't have to read threads titled "X codex rumors" but neither do you have to read the same thread since according to you "lack of info is bs."

If I can ignore a thread so can you. If you are allowed to post displeasure at not knowing 90% of a codex 3 months out then I am allowed to post why I am happy NOT knowing 90% of a codex 3 months out. Elementary, Dear Navarro.

Your assumptions dont make any kind of sense, yet... I still hope you will leave that cocoon one day... reason why I dont ignore anyone.

On this thread about " new models" people complain about lack of "new models" leaks and you complain about "people behaviour"... its ok as long as you dont constantly get snotty with everyone... Dont take it like a attack, take it like a observation because your points not only are offtopic but also compromise everyones respect towards your future posts.
Take it or leave it I will not mention it again since in order for you to understand I had to behave like you.

On topic
I still think raveners instead of warriors or Gargs instead extra gaunts would still maintain the swarm appeal and give some appeal to the Nid collectors.
I see the cover artwork more like a tie with the codex, often new nid players will get the box and codex at same time making this more effective to identify ( even if the content isnt exactly like artwork).
The deal is not bad, but like the new bugs so far, it could have been so much better.

jamunition wrote:Why do we all think it is a tyrgon?

It may be a scythed hirodule.

eerrr maybe its because it IS a trygon especially when leaked pictures and i ve just told you its in the black box many people from warseer have confirmed and a member called bramgaunt over there just gave us a load of info seriously dude check other sites!

To be honest here, Nids used to be a swarm army.
By changing the force and tweaking gaunt rules me thinks thats the way they are heading with this.
However, the trygon/maw have just reinforced the zilla builds, so im not sure what GW are up to.

My guess though would be trying to bring the nids into more of a swarm based style, rather than big hitters.
Hence why the plastic gargs are out, as are the ravs, new gaunt box's.

to be honest, i like what GW have done so far, and thier plastic kits are just getting better.
Im happy with whats out so far, so if they can keep the dex gak free and without many mistakes it wouldnt be bad

Why do the latest Battleforces/Battalions have no new non-troop/core models?

Skaven Battalion- Only Clanrats are new. Where are the StormVermin?

Tyranid Battleforce- Gaunts are recuts, maybe Warriors as well? Why no Gargoyles or Raveners?

I am getting the feeling that one of the ways that GW is looking to "maximize profit" is
by making sure that we must purchase new elite-type units in the single unit package rather than the "discount" package.

I really dislike this.
The best Battalion I ever bought was the Empire Reinforcement Battalion that had
20 new Flagellents, the new helblaster/helcannon, new plastic wizards, and the latest empire state troops.
All but the State troops were brand new at the time.

the guants in the battleforce arent even recuts, theyre 2 boxes worth of the previous gaunts mixed box (which came as 8 of each).

The Tyranid Codex had a major printing error in it so no preview copy in the stores at the usual time and the release date on the book has been pushed back till a corrected print run can be obtained.

Is anyone else annoyed by how sculptors will put holes in leathery wings? Sure it makes them look more sinister, but it also means they wouldn't work.

Also, is it possible Mawloc is a special character style trygon, like Red terror etc?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well 'Nidzilla was the last Codex. They've swinging that pendulum away from that and to swarms, so the contents make sense.

Actually, the more rumors I read, the more I think a move away from Nidzilla is just something we've cooked up. I think Nidzilla will be just as viable as ever, it's just that the formula will change.

There's a new batch of rumors up on Warseer. Some seem very strange and/or questionable to me, but who knows.

According to my FLGS' GW contact the gaunts in the new battleforce are indeed the recut gaunts as they will come in the new gaunt boxes.

I haven't seen this batch of Tyranid rumors copy/pasted yet, so here they are, from Warseer:

Well, I think I waited long enough to post some decent hints of rules. As Black Boxes will ship in next week and GWs official promo will start, I think I might already say some things so you guys wont go into the redshirts clutches unprepared.

Source is accurate. I still might have got some details wrong. I have not read the book, so please don't ask me questions, I'll tell you everything I know. No more, no less.

I'll start with the "boring" stuff.

Hormagaunts: Improved Initiative. Point costs halved.

Gaunts: nothing new there.

Gargoyles: A poisoned attack that excactly works as the Warhammer Fantasy Poisoned attacks rule work: Each roll of 6 to hit always wounds. Armour saves applied normally. Poison glands available. Point Costs halved.

Raveners: Plastic Kits of three with lots of options for thorax weapons.

Tyranid Warriors: Improved armoursaves, 3 Lifepoints each. Core unit. You still may have Tyrant Warrior Alphas as HQ choices.

Liktor: 3 for a FOC, no 0-1 Limit. 3 Lifepoints.
Liktor Death Leaper: In the list. WS9, I 7, Rending on 5+.

Old One Eye: In the list.

Red Terror: NOT in the list.

Hive Tyrand: The major HQ choice again.

Hive Guard: Harpoon Cannon does not need LOS. Longe Range weapon.
From a different angle, they really do NOT look like Centaurs at all. They just lean on their middle limbs to balance, bud they really are not 2 pairs of legs.

Genestealers: Point costs dropped. No info if they are core or elite.
Broodlord: Upgrade to all Genestealer squads. Psychic powers.

Venomthrope: poisened Attacks that wound on 2+. Grants 5+ cover save to all models within 6 inches.

Pyrovore: Melee Monster with flaming template weapon.

Zoanthrope: Apperantly no 0-1 choice any more.

Carnifexes: Squads of up to 3. Increased ballistic skills.

Trygon: He's there. Monstrous Creature.

Mawloc: He's there too.

Expect some new weaponsymbionts.

I had this for quiet some time, but I promised to keep it down. If you go to your local store the next days, yo probably will find the promotional posters with pictures of all the shinies.

great info! Thanks SRM!

So Venomthrope pretty much has a kff, thats pretty cool I guess but not very original unlike this so called Harpoon cannon. I'd love to pulled space marine captains out of their termie squads and have my Tyrant maul em.

I gotta say I'm lukewarm at best on several of the new rumors. I'm speculating heavily here, but the VT looks like it's intended to be Hamburger Helper for Gaunts to me. However, 4+ cover is plentiful for Gaunts and the VT would look to be more helpful for MCs in actuality (especially since it could play peekaboo behind a Fex brood).

Like I said earlier, I have a sneaky suspicion that Nidzilla will be alive and well, it just might be with different Fex builds and the addition of the Trygon, etc.

Extra wounds on Warriors is great if they keep Eternal Warrior. If not...well, I have no idea Cruddace is thinking on that one considering extra T would better address their issues.

The part about the Pyrovore being a close combat beastie is just odd considering people who have seen the model say it looks like a Biovore with a bigger gun. Although it's consistent with the early rumors about an acid template, etc. Of course, it could be that it fires like the Hellhound, or that it has a big AT gun and a secondary template weapon for close defense.

Cheaper Hormagaunts....great...but if they don't have S4 access I'm not going to be going hogwild on them.

Cheaper, poisoned Gargoyle...fine, I guess...not sure what their role really is then, nor why I'd sink points into them if scoring Gaunts and Hormagaunts are still available.

We still lack TONS of context, though. So I'm hoping this "meh" feeling of mine is just me jumping the gun based on incomplete information.

FlammingGaunt wrote:So Venomthrope pretty much has a kff, thats pretty cool I guess but not very original unlike this so called Harpoon cannon. I'd love to pulled space marine captains out of their termie squads and have my Tyrant maul em.

Unoriginal yes... But it could be darn handy if the goal is a Swarm based army. And the Harpoon cannon, if it worked like that, would just be a redo of the old Flesh Hook rules, not really original either.

Aduro wrote:Unoriginal yes... But it could be darn handy if the goal is a Swarm based army.

Moreso if it's Nidzilla, given that MCs have such a hard time getting cover saves in 5th. Is that what was intended? I dunno, but that's how it looks to me (albeit with the sparse info we have).

And the Harpoon cannon, if it worked like that, would just be a redo of the old Flesh Hook rules, not really original either.

Wasn't the rumor that the cannons are long-ranged weapons? Flesh hooks never worked like that.

The only thing here that seems implausible are the halved costs for hormagaunts and gargoyles. It's not toally outside GW's range of dramatic change, but (even as a Nid player) it seems a bit too big a reduction.

Well I think we can expect to see some serious side effects without synapse active on them. Though I expect you're right. I'm going to say 7 point gargoyles, 3 point gaunts (with no guns or maybe spinefists already) and 6 point hormagaunts.

When will the codex be in stores for preview? Dec 17th?