I want a warpath version of kings hold

SPACE CRUSADE!!! that would so rock

probably mid sept for orx sprue, mayhaps earlier.

By throwing Forge Father to later than sooner, Mantic have made a mistake. Most of the people are waiting for the dwarves, not for the marauders.

They tried, but have understood how high prices could be damaging for their business model, and are probably working out how to reduce the price (or, they where just kidding, and thing dont went in the way they wanted to).

A Dwarf Kings Hold version for warpath would look great...

Any chance of hosting the FF pics on dakka for those viewing on work computers?

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:By throwing Forge Father to later than sooner, Mantic have made a mistake. Most of the people are waiting for the dwarves, not for the marauders.

It's actually the reverse. It's a mistake to put out the most desired product first. You put out the less desired product first and many folks who might have been happy with only the desired product will purchase it and then go on to purchase the desired product. Fairly standard marketing.

It's kind of like putting the main course out before the appetizer. People get full and cancel the appetizer. Not a perfect analogy, as people often have room for desert, but you get the idea.

The last example might be why the movie often shows up on DVD by itself first and as a special edition later. Fans really want the special edition, but will buy the basic edition just to see the movie right away and will likely still buy the special edition later.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Any chance of hosting the FF pics on dakka for those viewing on work computers?

Come stop by next week, you can hold one in your hands

Cyporiean, what about fans in other continents? Are we second class citizens or something like that? :lol:

Gitzbitah wrote:If their prices are truly that close to GW, then Mantic's sales may be low for a year- then GW's prices will be 30% higher, and things will be as they are now.

Except they will have lost a year's worth of potential momentum as well as much of the goodwill that comes from having nice models at a cheap price (I've got the KoW set, and the models are decent, but the dwarfs especially aren't anywhere near up to GW standard - but for the price I have no complaints. As the price approaches GW, that "I don't mind" factor diminishes. Especially with so many other ranges out there right now.

scipio.au wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote:If their prices are truly that close to GW, then Mantic's sales may be low for a year- then GW's prices will be 30% higher, and things will be as they are now.

Except they will have lost a year's worth of potential momentum as well as much of the goodwill that comes from having nice models at a cheap price (I've got the KoW set, and the models are decent, but the dwarfs especially aren't anywhere near up to GW standard - but for the price I have no complaints. As the price approaches GW, that "I don't mind" factor diminishes. Especially with so many other ranges out there right now.

I agree, and thats exact what i fear... Except by the part of the dwarfs, my first disapointment with GW was those dwarves

Which GW dwarves? I'm not speaking of the Skull Pass set in particular, but of the overall range that's been around and evolving for the past couple of decades.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Cyporiean, what about fans in other continents? Are we second class citizens or something like that? :lol:

Your just as welcome to drive to the OTLG offices any see a Mantic prerelease

I'm posting on a phone for the next few days, so I can't upload pics to the gallery.

This just came through on email.

Ronnie wrote:Well, anyone with any technical knowledge is away at the big tradeshow in Switzerland.


So there is just me here - and I can barely type.

That means this week there are no pictures, no videos, nothing!

Sorry.

However, next week we will have loads and loads of Warpath for you - including photos of a full unit of ForgeFathers, and sketches of two very interesting kits that will both be in the boxed game!

And the box cover!

Oh, and in the next few days you can see the work in progress on the two Army leader figures. Believe me when I say these two sculpts are truly incredible.

One image will appear on Beasts of War, the other on Bell of Lost Souls so keep your eyes peeled fro those - and of course both will hit the wonderous Mantic blog! (that would have been a hyperlink - but as I already said, the tech boys are away! However, I did manage to change the colour - so at least looks like one!). Pop on over throughout next week for all the latest news and thrills.

Anyway, until next week when the world gets all awesome again feel free to pop over to the Mantic site (eerm, could you copy and paste www.manticgames.com please?) and fill your boots with piles of great fantasy armies - including the fantastic new orc Gore Riders (imagination required for images!)

Anyway, until next week have fun, and enjoy.

Ronnie

p.s - I am at Evesham tomorrow - so pop over and see me!

Looks like next week will be the hype week

scipio.au wrote:Which GW dwarves? I'm not speaking of the Skull Pass set in particular, but of the overall range that's been around and evolving for the past couple of decades.

Entire range? I remember when i was reading the army book dwarfs for the first time, and i was loving it, all the fluff, and thel dwarves, and the unit names... And them i hit the miniatures showcase, and yelled "hm, there is gnomes in the army too". Serious, it was very disapoiting when i reallized the gnomes where the dwarves. That made me forget WHFB for a long time...

About that e-mail: i received it too... well, next week we will see the true color of warpath

I hope it is so good as we expect...

kenshin620 wrote:Looks like next week will be the hype week

Of course, the one week in the year that I won't have regular net access.

I thought that this week in the Mantic Newsletter was when they were releasing the updated Army Lists for KOW 2011?

"Update" on prices according to E Figures, not much change from the last one though. I do not know if these are official

E-figures.com have posted updated prices for the first Warpath releases from Mantic Games.

October

Warpath Orx Section (10) $23.99
Warpath Orx Platoon (20) $34.99
Warpath Orx Hero $13.99
Warpath Orx Starter Army (40+2v) $74.99

November

Warpath Paint Set $24.99
Warpath Game Orxs vs Dwarfs $74.99


December

Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Section (10) $21.99
Warpath Forgefathers Grizzlers Team (5) $19.99
Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Platoon (20) $31.99
Warpath Forgefathers Hero $13.99
Warpath Forgefathers Army $74.99

The Warpath game box will include
55 Models, 2 vehicles, dice, rules and Mantic Points

10 Forgefathers Steel Warriors, 5 Grizzlers, 1 Big Gun
30 Orx, 10 Heavy Weapon Orx, 1 Trike

Old List
October
Warpath Orx Section (10) $24.99
Warpath Orx Platoon (20) $34.99
Warpath Orx Hero $13.99
Warpath Orx Starter Army (40+2v) $74.99

November
Warpath Paint Set $24.99
Warpath Game Orxs vs Dwarfs $74.99

December
Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Section (10) $24.99
Warpath Forgefathers Grizzlers Team (5) $24.99
Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Platoon (20) $34.99
Warpath Forgefathers Hero $13.99
Warpath Forgefathers Army $74.99

New List

October
Warpath Orx Section (10) $23.99
Warpath Orx Platoon (20) $34.99
Warpath Orx Hero $13.99
Warpath Orx Starter Army (40+2v) $74.99

November
Warpath Paint Set $24.99
Warpath Game Orxs vs Dwarfs $74.99


December
Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Section (10) $21.99
Warpath Forgefathers Grizzlers Team (5) $19.99
Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Platoon (20) $31.99
Warpath Forgefathers Hero $13.99
Warpath Forgefathers Army $74.99

The Warpath game box will include
55 Models, 2 vehicles, dice, rules and Mantic Points
10 Forgefathers Steel Warriors, 5 Grizzlers, 1 Big Gun
30 Orx, 10 Heavy Weapon Orx, 1 Trike

Not a huge difference, but it is significant in that means that when picking it up from an online retailer, you're looking at notably less than 2 bucks a fig for the basic plastic troopers, even without a bulk platoon price. I'll be curious to see what's in a forgefathers army set.

We must agree that 20 models (orcs) for 35 dollars are good in price. Its almost twice the number of GW for the same price

The army set are great priced.

The Orx Hero looks like GW price :(

Forgefathers looks the same, i will surelly be buying platoons

Forgefathers Hero and Grizzler team looks like GW priced... C`mon those orcs in wild boars cost the same price, for the double in models and a lot more of weigh in resin...

I desire to call those prices BS, i will like a lot the plastic sets price, but those resin set have GW cost, and its better they come a little cheaper...

PS:Anyone know if the "hero" sets are in reallity sets of various heroes (like KoW first ones)?

So, no word on who won the naming contest? (sorry if I missed it)

agnosto wrote:So, no word on who won the naming contest? (sorry if I missed it)

From the latest Mantic newsletter (recieved 19th of August):

The Naming competitions have now ended, and once we’ve sifted through all the pages, we’ll be picking the winners and announcing them next week.

Thanks to all of you who have entered!

Thanks Avatar. I won't win but was curious who did.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Which GW dwarves? I'm not speaking of the Skull Pass set in particular, but of the overall range that's been around and evolving for the past couple of decades.

Entire range? I remember when i was reading the army book dwarfs for the first time, and i was loving it, all the fluff, and thel dwarves, and the unit names... And them i hit the miniatures showcase, and yelled "hm, there is gnomes in the army too". Serious, it was very disapoiting when i reallized the gnomes where the dwarves. That made me forget WHFB for a long time...

OK mate, no problem. You're naturally entitled to your own opinions. If you're disappointed in GW Dwarfs, I can't see why you're in love with the Mantic ones, though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
New prices and breakdowns - interesting. Only 15 dwarfs and a "big gun" in the boxed set? I'm not a particular fan of their style of Orc (I don't hate them, I just have plenty of the GW ones, and they won't mesh together) and so my main interest is the Dwarfs.

With only 15 of them in the box, my interest in Warpath is rapidly waning. Especially since I'm viewing the game more as a source of more miniatures than as a game I'm likely to spend a lot of time playing.

Forgefathers are probably the space marines of the game, hence why theres less of them to the orx to keep the box set balanced

Though I realize this is weird because if the pricing is true then 20 orx costs more than 20 forgefathers

scipio.au wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Which GW dwarves? I'm not speaking of the Skull Pass set in particular, but of the overall range that's been around and evolving for the past couple of decades.

Entire range? I remember when i was reading the army book dwarfs for the first time, and i was loving it, all the fluff, and thel dwarves, and the unit names... And them i hit the miniatures showcase, and yelled "hm, there is gnomes in the army too". Serious, it was very disapoiting when i reallized the gnomes where the dwarves. That made me forget WHFB for a long time...

OK mate, no problem. You're naturally entitled to your own opinions. If you're disappointed in GW Dwarfs, I can't see why you're in love with the Mantic ones, though.

Yeah, its that damn sthetic thing again, thats why blonds, brunetes and redhairs all get husbunds

And that is very good too I can see why you like GW dwarfs though, they have their own charisma (i really miss the lack viking iconography in Mantic dwarfs :( )

kenshin620 wrote:Forgefathers are probably the space marines of the game, hence why theres less of them to the orx to keep the box set balanced

Though I realize this is weird because if the pricing is true then 20 orx costs more than 20 forgefathers

You mean you can buy an army based on cost to produce etc rather than a "Unit of X" should be Y Dollars? I actually like this premise. Points cost shouldn't have any effect on Real World cost. Well my $0.0214* any way.


*Adjusted for AU->US Conversion.

scipio.au wrote:
New prices and breakdowns - interesting. Only 15 dwarfs and a "big gun" in the boxed set? I'm not a particular fan of their style of Orc (I don't hate them, I just have plenty of the GW ones, and they won't mesh together) and so my main interest is the Dwarfs.

With only 15 of them in the box, my interest in Warpath is rapidly waning. Especially since I'm viewing the game more as a source of more miniatures than as a game I'm likely to spend a lot of time playing.

There will also be a forgfathers army box released in December, which will, no doubt also contain the rules.

So basically you have 3 different starter boxes:

- Marauders vs. Forgefathers.
- Marauders only
- Forgefathers only

Quite a good approach, I think.

If, like yourself, you don't want any Orx, then there's no need to buy any of them to get a big discounted box of cheap models.

Oh, I get that, and it's expected based on the KoW starter. I'll wait and see if the Dwarfs-only set has what I consider good value for my dollar, or if it's only double what you get int he starter, making them much more expensive-to-purchase plastic models than others, which would indeed make them the Space Marines of the game...

I like it, but I wont be in for any. I really like Dwarves...scifi and fantasy, but in 28mm scale they are just too small for me.

Mad4Minis wrote:I like it, but I wont be in for any. I really like Dwarves...scifi and fantasy, but in 28mm scale they are just too small for me.

What's your preferred scale?

Think he means that 28mm dwarves are too small, rather than 28mm is too small... if that makes any sense.

Mad4Minis wrote:I like it, but I wont be in for any. I really like Dwarves...scifi and fantasy, but in 28mm scale they are just too small for me.

Lucky you didn't have them in 6mm then!

New pic up on BoLS. this time one of the FF heroes



And an orc on BoW

those are fethin awesome, my wallet weeps for the wonderment it will be forced to cough up for

Those WIPs look great. 112% better than the plastic guy pic that they had earlier.

The guy they had in the pic earlier was pure resin.

Interesting. e-figures (http://www.e-figures.com/store/warpathorder.php) has the following information:

MGE PSW31-1 Warpath Paint Set ~ NOV PreOrder $24.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPD12-1 Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Section (10) ~ DEC PreOrder $21.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPD13-1 Warpath Forgefathers Grizzlers Team (5) ~ DEC PreOrder $19.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPD21-1 Warpath Forgefathers Steel Warriors Platoon (20) ~ DEC PreOrder $31.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPD70-1 Warpath Forgefathers Hero ~ DEC PreOrder $13.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPD81-1 Warpath Forgefathers Army ~ DEC PreOrder $74.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPM81-1 Warpath Game Orxs vs Dwarfs ~ NOV PreOrder $74.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPO12-1 Warpath Orx Section (10) ~ OCT PreOrder $23.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPO21-1 Warpath Orx Platoon (20) ~ OCT PreOrder $34.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPO70-1 Warpath Orx Hero ~ OCT PreOrder $13.99 Log in to see cost
MGE WPO81-1 Warpath Orx Starter Army (40+2v) ~ OCT PreOrder $74.99 Log in to see cost

Note that "Orx" are due out in October and the Forgefathers in December. Odd considering that Mantic's been showing the forgefathers around the net first.

It's not really odd at all, it's simple marketing. Show the things people want first, and then give them a suitable alternative whilst they wait. A lot of people who want Forgefathers will be content with getting Marauders instead whilst they wait for the Forgefathers to come out. If you release the most eagerly anticipated stuff first, then everyone will be sated by the time the next thing comes out.

Think of it like starters in restaurants, people have them whilst they wait for their main meals to be completed; if they just had the main meal, they wouldn't buy a starter.

Why is the Space Dwarf using Nerf guns?

Because it's Nerf, or nothing.

Really liking those sculpts. I'm sold on the Forgefathers. I probably won't buy into the orx, but the croc-faced look is really growing on me. Reminds me of Killer Croc from Batman the Animated Series.

Avatar 720 wrote:It's not really odd at all, it's simple marketing. Show the things people want first, and then give them a suitable alternative whilst they wait. A lot of people who want Forgefathers will be content with getting Marauders instead whilst they wait for the Forgefathers to come out. If you release the most eagerly anticipated stuff first, then everyone will be staed by the time the next thing comes out.

Think of it like starters in restaurants, people have them whilst they wait for their main meals to be completed; if they just had the main meal, they wouldn't buy a starter.

I tried to explain the same previously, and you just did it so much more effectively with far less words. Well said sir!

I dig the Forgefather, not so big on the Orx dude. Then again, I don't see myself getting their sci fi Orks since I already have a bunch of 40k ones. It's the Forgefathers and humans I'm interested in.

I like these. Not sure if I'll get into the game, but it might be fun to pick up a unit or two to paint and use as proxies.

I like boot, the dwarfs are my guys of choice, but im really inclined toward a new orxs army too... I like their style, and i dont have much GW ones... so... gain + gain

Boot figure look amazing, my wallet is ready to spend those non GW bucks...

A little question: are those prices listed in Dollars, euros ou pounds? I hope it is in dollar...

Brother SRM wrote:. It's the Forgefathers and humans I'm interested in.

Agreed. As for the humans, I tell my self that I don't need a third mid-tech, lightly-armored human force, but if they're as good as the Forgefathers, I may give in anyway.

This is good news. Two more days until the Warpath is let loose! I really hope that they improve the Orx and learn from their current Orc range, and I'm very intrigued to see how they go about it. There's been so many rumours. Do people remember the cigar-smoking Orc heads sculpted for the Morax not so long ago? I wonder if they might create some kind of Hybrid kits with their existing Orc plastics. We shall have to wait and see! That would be an awesome possibility, but the Forge Fathers really are looking good at the moment.

Exciting stuff! Looking forward to the Orx as they seem to represent the older RT-esque GW ones, smaller heads, less bestial etc.

Definitely looking forward to seeing the standard line trooper for them.

The sculpts look good, but other than the guns there is nothing SciFi about them, just generic fantasy plate mail.

I can see myself buying a few boxes of those Orks.

Holdenstein wrote:Why is the Space Dwarf using Nerf guns?

Because all the weapons in Warpath are non-lethal. Have you read the rules?

Kroothawk wrote:The sculpts look good, but other than the guns there is nothing SciFi about them, just generic fantasy plate mail.

Yes I think so. I was really hoping for something more sci-fi ish, rather than the psuedo fantasy-sci-fi style of 40k (and with talk of a 'Corporation', maybe bending towards an Infinity style conception). Alas, for the orxs at least, it looks not to be.

Kroothawk wrote:The sculpts look good, but other than the guns there is nothing SciFi about them, just generic fantasy plate mail.

Even with the guns I'm seeing more of a steampunkish style

Hmm.
The Orc pic is blocked while I'm at work, but I'm liking that dwarf.
I don't think the armor looks fantasy, so much as it looks like they wanted futuristic armor that looked to have fantasy influened,

Eric

I like them, but they're a little too steam punky for me, it's a like a cross between confrontation and 40k.

Warpath Box cover art:

Hot dang, that is beautiful!

I think I like the atmosphere of the pic more than the actual art. The forgefather leader especially looks goofy.

I wish we had then when they were having the contest to name the boxed set...

Must agree with Da Boss about that artwork. Very Warmachine, actually.

I'm a little underwhelmed by the second forgefather (too much a WIP?) but the Maurader looks okayish. The forgefather in particular is far too reminiscent of Mantic's fantasy dwarves but I guess that's good news for those that like the fantasy dwarves. The Maurader is just not what I expected. I can't come up with anything bad about it -- just ... why bother making them so orky if they are going to be significantly non-orky? I don't know ... I obviously want to see more than three sculpts before getting my hopes up or having them dashed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Holdenstein wrote:Why is the Space Dwarf using Nerf guns?

Avatar 720 wrote:Because it's Nerf, or nothing.

Also, this was awesome.

The concept art has sort of an 'old school' RT vibe to it. Its not bad art, just not up to the level of 'Oooh pretty!' that the Warmachine cover art is.

The sculpts are turning out nice. Lots of details without going overboard, and if the troop sculpt have that level of detail in them I'll be impressed.

ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. That is all.

Mmmmm..I see conversion material in my future.

I dont know, but i think forgefathers are meant to be "steam-punk", or "gothic sci-fi-esk". I found that pretty acceptable for a race like dwarfs, normally they are a race who accept new technologies (and produce them), but who change little in terms of culture, and put great value in hard manual work. So, their shiny new things will normally look old, just because the culture who produced it dont changed.

I liked the box art, its epic, fun, classic and new, at the same time. Great details for the "dying guys". The only thing im tremendous upset about (to not say deceptioned), are the colors of the forgefathers... Blue and gold are ultrasmurfmarines, and in my point of view, dont have nothing to do with dwarfs. But anyway, that is a slight thumbs down, for a lot of great thumbs up...

scarletsquig wrote:Think he means that 28mm dwarves are too small, rather than 28mm is too small... if that makes any sense.

Yes thats exactly what I mean. 28mm is fine for human size or larger, but dwarves in 28mm are just too tiny for my taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord marcus wrote:New pic up on BoLS. this time one of the FF heroes



And an orc on BoW

WOW, both of those are killer. Gonna keep an eye on the Orx for sure.

The hammer forgefather on the art looks like hes saying "Look at me guys! I'm a space marine! Eat my S8 thunderhammer greenskin"

I'm guessing the art also show us what the orx vehicle and possible orx/forgefather fliers are gonna look like?

Got an e-mail from Mantic about the great "Warpath Deals!" they're going to have for the next 11 days.

I like Mantic and I like a great number of their models; however, I refuse to pay them nearly $300 for something generic like "151 Models and 6 vehicles" based upon a WIP model of an elite unit that will be cast in resin anyway. Not even any concept art of the supposed vehicles or what the regular troops will look like (well for the Marauders anyway).

Yeah, I prefer to spend my money on something I know I'll like.

Yeah that is strange. We haven't seen enough of the models yet and unless they reveal all within those 11 days it's hard to make an investment in something you may not like - as you haven't seen it yet

At least they're excited about it though. I'm still waiting to see if I've won any of those competions

They did the same with their chaos dwarves super deals.

Looking good so far!

Maybe its just me but the Mantic site is down all evening now.

BrookM wrote:Maybe its just me but the Mantic site is down all evening now.

It was down for me too but seems to be up and running now.


What can i say ? Wow! I reckon there will be many "Orx" finding their way into my "Ork" collection and vice versa! I to wont be ordering until i see more models however.

SAme here. I would love to see more beyond the two pictured. The army deals also say they won't ship until November, so I assume we will be seeing trickles of pics until then.

Ordered a copy, worth a risk.

Looks like the "vehicles" included are those tracked gun platforms and those trikes / attack bikes.

I dunno, there's a couple of things about this whole venture which leaves me feeling a bit disappointed.

The first thing is the timing. Now, this is more confusion then disappointment, but still.....I think it's clear by now that Mantic are not trying to navigate new waters with their product....it's also clear that they are targeting GW, but here's my point....they've taken so long to get something "out there" that I feel they may really have missed the boat. The dust has pretty much settled now with regards to GW, people have either gone over to new games (Infinity, Malifaux, PP, etc) or have given up and gone back to GW....IMHO, Mantic needed their product on the shelf at least two months ago to have really capitalised on the situation.

Now some people are going to shout me down with "I'd rather they take their time and get it right then rush and get it wrong"......but this leads me to my second point....they've not rushed, and as far as I'm concerned they got it wrong as well.

I'm not going to even discuss the lack-luster rules, as they read right now they're uninspired. However, even the miniatures that Mantic hope to "WOW" the gaming world with are just, well, boring.....the Dwarfs look far to busy, and awkward, the weapons are pure comedy, and even the Orx just looks like a tweeked GW Ork.....the whole thing is just a yawn fest.

I think alot of people were hoping that Mantic were going to be the company to humble the mighty GW, however, with this product I really doubt they will.

Be honest, given the current miniatures and the current rules who is planning on selling up their GW items to change over to this? Seriously? I mean, if it came down to it, and someone had a gun to my head, I'd chose going back to WH40K (spending wise) then part with one penny towards Warpath.

Timing is tough for plastic minis - it takes a long time to go from the concept sketches to the finished plastics we buy. I won't deny that if they had their stuff on the shelf during the GW price hike they would have gotten a lot of business though. Regardless, I think they'll still sell well, as there are still people looking for cheap models. I like what I'm seeing for the Forgefathers (I've got enough Orks already) and who knows, I might pick up a few. What I've read of the rules is uninspiring though.

Either way, people will still leave GW, people will still come back to GW, and people will still buy other companies' products. I think they'll do alright.

I wi be getting the ultimate forge father or ultimate both if the forgefathers shape up.

Really need to see the figures. And sprues.

I would drop cash on the mega FF deal, but I unfortunatley don't have said funds. I have about 80 USD saved away for Warpath, which i hope will be enough for the starter set.

Delephont wrote:
I think alot of people were hoping that Mantic were going to be the company to humble the mighty GW, however, with this product I really doubt they will.

This is the big mistake that a lot of people make, who simply do not understand that mantic are a tiny company with a dozen employees.

They are probably about 1% of the size of Privateer Press, never mind GW.

It is an absolutely tiny operation that has very few full-time staff and relies heavily on freelancers to keep overall costs down.. then relies on the same company that tools moulds for historical plastics to make the plastics, and outsourcing to China for resin plastics.

They are an exercise in making a lean operation, as much quality and as many new releases as you can possibly get for as low a price as possible.

They are in no way any sort of threat to GW, they simply offer an easy method of transition between GW's customers and theirs.

I think no one really expect a "new thing" from Mantic, that was pretty obvious how the starter set would look a lot like GW. The game system is bad, but the minis look good and very trusty to the concepts (until now).

I like the FF aproach, and i like the Marauders "we are not orks, really". The first reproduce dwarfs in space in the way i wanted it. The second are just a cheaper (and very similar) version of my prefered race on GW. I will play 40k with them.

Excepet for some ork kits i just want to build, I will not buy any more GW after this release, at least not until GW really change their politics. Thats what Mantic is about, not a "new game to stand against warhammer", but diferent miniatures range, to give us more options against GW...

But i will wait for the cheaer boxes though

I don't think the game is bad, merely not quite to everyone's taste. I like it.

scarletsquig wrote:

Delephont wrote:
I think alot of people were hoping that Mantic were going to be the company to humble the mighty GW, however, with this product I really doubt they will.

This is the big mistake that a lot of people make, who simply do not understand that mantic are a tiny company with a dozen employees.

They are probably about 1% of the size of Privateer Press, never mind GW.

It is an absolutely tiny operation that has very few full-time staff and relies heavily on freelancers to keep overall costs down.. then relies on the same company that tools moulds for historical plastics to make the plastics, and outsourcing to China for resin plastics.

They are an exercise in making a lean operation, as much quality and as many new releases as you can possibly get for as low a price as possible.

They are in no way any sort of threat to GW, they simply offer an easy method of transition between GW's customers and theirs.

I have no illusions regarding the scale of Mantics operations, plus I would be hesitant to Lean philosophy regarding Mantic without fully understanding their business.

That said, I also disagree witht statement someone else has made, that we should never have expected something innovative from Mantic.......why? Other small operations have endeavoured to innovate, for example, Spartan Games, Studio McVey, MERCS to name but a few.....the scale of Mantics operations have no bearing on how creative they could have been. However, unlike those other companies, Mantic has been very public and vocal about how their product owuld be ground breaking, great, blah blah blah, they've released videos on Youtube, been very vocal on Beasts of War, and look at the end product.

If Mantic had been straight about their product, i.e "we're just making a bunch of miniatures that we hope you'll buy in order to proxy in GW's WH40K and Fantasy Battle", then fair enough, but they built up such a head of hype and IMHO haven't delivered.

I never expected, or wanted, anything especially innovative from Warpath. It was clear from the outset that it was going to be a generic fantasy in space mass battle game. That does not mean that it is a 40k clone, although it does happily mean that some of the miniatures will be interchangeable with GW, which is a good thing regardles sof pricing or quality or any other issues, as it gives us variety and choice. Several of the Warpath armies have no direct 40 equivilant, outside of the fluff. Forgefathers, rebels, and mutants are all unique to Warpath as playable and purchaseable armies. They could feasibly be used to represent things like Squats, and Lost and Damned (perhaps with some conversion) but that is a happy side effect. Even the corporation are unique to Warpath. They may be the Warpath equivilant to the Imperium, but they are radically different, especially in terms of backstory, and remind me more of the Alliance from Firefly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
My point is, there's bound to be a lot of similarities between 40k and warpath. They are both cut from the same cloth, being generic Scifi/fantasy battle games. But a lot of people (including myself) like that kind of thing and have been wanting more of the same, I think Mantic have done well to provide this and simultaneously distinguish Warpath with races and miniatures you won't get from GW. I would prefer their minis to look a little more futuristic, but that's a minor quibble. I will buy them. I will probably continue playing using the 40k rules (or my gaming groups version of them) for my gaming because Warpath rules are overly simplistic for my taste. I'm very interested to learn more about the backstory. What I have heard so far isn't innovative, but it definitely focoses on different things than 40k and I do find it intrigueing. If it's good enough, I will play games and make armies set in that universe, and perhaps stage some crossover games where Warpath forces fight 40k forces. If the Warpath fluff isn't up to much I'll simply use their minis for conversions, but that remains to be seen. I may one day end up more invested in the Warpath backstory than the 40k one, who knows.

^ The Corporation and Rebels from Warpath are definitely very similar to Alliance and Browncoats from Firefly, possibly with elements of Imperial and Rebel from Star Wars, too.. more on the Rebel side than anything due to their mix of human and various alien troops.

The Plague sound very similar to the Reavers as well, in that they are a biological experiment by the Corportation that went horribly wrong and produced monsters out of humans.

Cool thing about the Plague is that it will give all those "Lost and the Damned" players a way of using their army after GW stopped supporting that list... I thought the nurgle plague zombies and heretic guard were pretty cool myself.. certainly, in the black library novels, the primary enemies that are fought are often chaos guardsmen.

You could call it a rip-off of Firefly quite easily and I wouldn't care one bit.. I love Firefly!

Forgefathers are original enough, serious i can list a bunch of sci-fi dwarfs, from a bunch of companies, thet are original in their ways and fluff, and all are based on interpretatons of what would be a dwarf society (you know, the fictional fantasy one) in a far technological set... And in my opinion, they are the better ones (c'mon, dwarven troops mut wear real armors!!!!)

Well, after visiting this thread several times, and repeatedly looking at those pics...ive gotta say...Im in. Farking Mantic, I hate painting stunties, but looks like Im gonna be doing it.

Also the wife likes the Orx, and has already informed me we will be buying the starter game and both starter armies...so i guess the decision has been made for me.

Mad4Minis wrote:Well, after visiting this thread several times, and repeatedly looking at those pics...ive gotta say...Im in. Farking Mantic, I hate painting stunties, but looks like Im gonna be doing it.

Also the wife likes the Orx, and has already informed me we will be buying the starter game and both starter armies...so i guess the decision has been made for me.

That.....doesn't......happen.......to .......most.......men

ever

Delephont wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:Well, after visiting this thread several times, and repeatedly looking at those pics...ive gotta say...Im in. Farking Mantic, I hate painting stunties, but looks like Im gonna be doing it.

Also the wife likes the Orx, and has already informed me we will be buying the starter game and both starter armies...so i guess the decision has been made for me.

That.....doesn't......happen.......to .......most.......men

ever

The end is nigh?

I like the look of the cover. There's definitely a whole lot worse out there..

Mad4Minis wrote:Well, after visiting this thread several times, and repeatedly looking at those pics...ive gotta say...Im in. Farking Mantic, I hate painting stunties, but looks like Im gonna be doing it.

Also the wife likes the Orx, and has already informed me we will be buying the starter game and both starter armies...so i guess the decision has been made for me.

That.....doesn't......happen.......to .......most.......men

ever

[II]

Delephont wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:Well, after visiting this thread several times, and repeatedly looking at those pics...ive gotta say...Im in. Farking Mantic, I hate painting stunties, but looks like Im gonna be doing it.

Also the wife likes the Orx, and has already informed me we will be buying the starter game and both starter armies...so i guess the decision has been made for me.

That.....doesn't......happen.......to .......most.......men

ever

She also builds minis too, and paints, though she is pretty new to the modeling end of gaming.

Quite the nasty opponent in Heroscape as well.

Mad4Minis wrote:

She also builds minis too, and paints, though she is pretty new to the modeling end of gaming.

Quite the nasty opponent in Heroscape as well.

The end is nigh! it is the pocky-clipse! we are doomed i Tell ya, DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!~

LOL! Just joking Mad4, glad you have a wife who Understands!

As awesome as that is, it is now time to get and keep the thread on topic.

Thanks!

Swap that ORX head for an ork Nob head and you have one sexy Ork model.

As I have said prior to this one, (now that we are back on track) that the Marauders will certainly have their place in my WAAAGH!!! for sure!

Da Boss wrote:I think I like the atmosphere of the pic more than the actual art. The forgefather leader especially looks goofy.

He is a dwarf in space with a giant meat tenderizer. That is about as goofy of a concept as you can start with...

I think that both pics look really nice, so does the box cover art. Definatly something to keep an eye on.

Will be watching mantic for more previews, but so far things are looking good.

We have a name (and a Winner). Check mantic blog...

No model previews tough...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:We have a name (and a Winner). Check mantic blog...

"Fate of the Forgestar", suggested by Dren Dorrin.

Also known as Da Eavy on forums.

AlexHolker wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:We have a name (and a Winner). Check mantic blog...

"Fate of the Forgestar", suggested by Dren Dorrin.

Is that a real name? Have Mantic just given the prize to themselves and said "Won by.... erm... 'Dren Dorrin' "

Hrm, Fate of the Forgeworld it is. Here's hoping they start showing off more models soon, especially those vehicles.

Pacific wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:We have a name (and a Winner). Check mantic blog...

"Fate of the Forgestar", suggested by Dren Dorrin.

Is that a real name? Have Mantic just given the prize to themselves and said "Won by.... erm... 'Dren Dorrin' "

infact it is. He is a real person.

One the KoW front (hah, I bet nowadays 3/4 of the viewers here are for Warpath!), theres a new blogpost about the new nerve system and a preview of one human unit

September 6th, 2011
You’ve got a nerve!

Mantic’s Kings of War Tournament* is coming this weekend and all the guys have been getting to grips with the 2nd Edition rules and the 3 new army lists (I’m taking Twilight Kin with Undead allies – me and beardy have never really mixed, but we’ll see how it goes!), 75 new units and special characters as they make their bid to become winners of the first Invitational Tournament.

One of the new things that players have been commenting on is the new streamlined Nerve system, and to know more, who better than to ask the man behind the rules: Alessio Cavatore!\
The new Nerve system is the same as before, but is now even simpler with no charts and less calculations: EVERYTHING IS IN THE STATLINE! So, when you damage a unit, you roll 2D6 + current damage and get a total.

If the total is lower than the first number (called the Wavering limit), the unit is steady. If the result is equal or higher than the wavering limit, but not as high as the second number (called the Routing limit), the enemy Wavers. If the result is equal or higher than the routing limit… guess what? The whole unit is removed!

So, for our human Pike Phalanx Regiment below, if the roll of a 2D6 + damage is equal to or higher than 15 the unit is Routed, equal to or higher than 13 it is waivering and less than 13 means it’s steady – easy as that!

Pike Phalanx is just one of the many new special rules in the new edition, and is exclusive to the Human list

Of course, a Nerve of 15 isn’t massively high so you better keep one of those Army Standard Bearer’s handy!

*Note: there are still one or two places remaining, so contact us at info@manticgames.com if you’re in the Mansfield area and want to play. Alternatively, why not pop in and see us in the evening where we’ll have Dwarf King’s Hold and even some Warpath previews!

In case it isn't obvious, the new Nerve stats for ordinary units are the old ones modified by +8/+10.

I'm unimpressed by the Human unit they picked as a teaser. Everything I've heard suggests they're going with a boring and redundant pseudo-historical army instead of bringing something new to the market.

AlexHolker wrote:I'm unimpressed by the Human unit they picked as a teaser. Everything I've heard suggests they're going with a boring and redundant pseudo-historical army instead of bringing something new to the market.

Well, what else could they do thats marketable? After all it should be usable for Warhammer

Well, if there's anything that Mantic rules desperately need it's more streamlining.

AlexHolker wrote:I'm unimpressed by the Human unit they picked as a teaser. Everything I've heard suggests they're going with a boring and redundant pseudo-historical army instead of bringing something new to the market.

They're yet to demonstrate a capacity for even conceiving anything creative to begin with. Expecting them to be creative and original is like expecting a tapeworm to compose a sonnet.

Like expecting GW to be polite and sensitive with their costumers?

Well, KoW looks incredible with the changes, but i must admit that lck of warpath news (and pics of the miniatures) is making me lose interest...

Don`t expect a puppy to hunt down foxes in his first year. That´s for some years down the road.

Please review Rule Number One. Thanks ~ Manchu

kenshin620 wrote:Well, what else could they do thats marketable?

Regiments of warmages. Totem warriors / skinwalkers (counts-as Beastmen). Mixed regiments of summoners and elementals / demons. Angels and paladins (not French jerks). Plastic female soldiers. Shock troopers (think Roman Legion +1,500 years, with tower shields and superheavy plate).

Pick one.

Do you know that will sell well? And fyi alex, the models are not going to be pseudo historical. The plan is to release a catch all human list and then release models in early 2012 when they have a good concept.

Given that Alessio is writing the rules, I'm not surprised that the humans might be usable with Dogs of War models.

And despite Pikes being a dominant weapon for multiple cultures (macedonian, chinese, High/Late middle age europe), there really aren't a lot of pikemen in the big fantasy games. LotR uruk-hai are pretty much it.

And Mantic is pretty stridently "generic" fantasy.

Hmm looks like they're close to their 5000th order

The person who gets the 5000th order will get to double their order for free

lord marcus wrote:Do you know that will sell well?

I am not psychic, so no. I do think I have a reasonable basis for believing they would: I think that a near monopoly on something new would be more profitable than fighting the Perrys for the low price plastic pikemen market, when the Perrys got there first.

AlexHolker wrote:

lord marcus wrote:Do you know that will sell well?

I am not psychic, so no. I do think I have a reasonable basis for believing they would: I think that a near monopoly on something new would be more profitable than fighting the Perrys for the low price plastic pikemen market, when the Perrys got there first.

But these are going to be FANTASY pikemen!

Look I'd love something new on the market (grumble, no one cares about slavics eh?) but its mantic, they dont have a track record of making something new and exciting

Although, the very fact that we are up to page 14 on this thread now, is because they are not breaking new ground but are pandering to an existing player base who want something similar to GWs range, of comparable quality but for a much lower price. How much interest do we see in other games which are breaking new ground, or are trying new angles with something? With a few exceptions (Maliflux, Infinity and the like) the landscape is littered with the gravestones of failed miniature and game companies. Scroll down about 3 miles on this forum and you can find the pages that deal with those other games. And even those latter successes I have mentioned have a criminally small player base in light of the gaming experience they provide.

My hope is, after they have established themselves in the market, they will start doing something more original. As it stands (and this doesn't surprise me considering they are populated by a lot of ex-GW men) they are making some very clever marketing decisions - they have seen where GW has fallen short in terms of pricing and even consumer desire (Dwarves in Space etc.) and they are trying to capitalise on that void. The problem it is so difficult to get people to move away, and to make a time and money commitment that is on something other than they already know.

Pacific wrote:Although, the very fact that we are up to page 14 on this thread now, is because they are not breaking new ground but are pandering to an existing player base who want something similar to GWs range, of comparable quality but for a much lower price.

We disagree on what differences are and are not damaging to Mantic's ability to ride GW's bow wave. It's not difficult to think up things that are usable using GW rules while providing new fluff and model concepts - in some cases they'd work even better, despite being more distant in concept. For just one example, a unit of Mantic cervitaur "cavalry" would be easier to transplant into a GW Wood Elf army than a unit of Mantic Wood Elves would be. The former is obviously meant to be a different race allied with the elves and any differences in style could be explained away by that, but the latter has two types of elves with vastly different physiologies.

That, to me, is the sweet spot: things that are similar enough to be useful to GW fans (and to allow use of GW models in KoW/Warpath for counts-as), but different enough that they're worth making in plastic in the first place.

Ugh. Just saw the concept art for the vehicles. Yeah, I think I'll pass on the whole thing.

You don't like the orx speedster thing?

That's ok but the forgefather thing looks nonsensical. At least GW pretends to have such things as engines and ammo supplies...

agnosto wrote:That's ok but the forgefather thing looks nonsensical. At least GW pretends to have such things as engines and ammo supplies...

It's not a vehicle, it's an artillery gun.

So...the fact they call it a "vehicle kit" means it's not a vehicle? It's got tracks no visible method to reach the battlefield...

"WARPATH MONTH
STARTS HERE


The countdown has begun and a whole month of Warpath starts today beginning with…

Marauder Raptor


Hailstorm Cannon

The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60! The vehicles can be found in the Fate of the Forgestar sci-fi battle set and all of our army deals, alongside the free Heroes and all of the other goodies!"

agnosto wrote:So...the fact they call it a "vehicle kit" means it's not a vehicle? It's got tracks no visible method to reach the battlefield...

"WARPATH MONTH
STARTS HERE


The countdown has begun and a whole month of Warpath starts today beginning with…

Marauder Raptor


Hailstorm Cannon

The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60! The vehicles can be found in the Fate of the Forgestar sci-fi battle set and all of our army deals, alongside the free Heroes and all of the other goodies!"

Just received this newsletter in my email.

I will wait for pics of the actual minis to be released but, based on the uninspired artwork, I am disappointed.

At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

Mr. Burning wrote:At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

The trike is for the Marauders, not the Forgefathers.

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

The trike is for the Marauders, not the Forgefathers.

Ah! my mistake, Orx on bikes huh?

I like what they have shown of the Marauders. If the detail on what has been previewed is as they look in the flesh I may get some for the cabinet.

Maybe I am wrong to want something different?

For some reason everyone talks about the new mantic pics but noone posts them. Weird.

Here they are:

Marauder "Raptor"
The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60!

Preview pic of a new Forgefather:

Well.....at least we'll have some more modern ork warbuggies

The bogie looks very nice.

Yeah, the ork warbuggy kit hasn't been updated in nearly 15 years.

This will at least give ork players another option to play with.

I really, really do not understand the comment about "no engines" when there is quite clearly a massive engine, exposed and visible at the front of the raptor.

mmmm.... Thudd Guns....

That Looks Really Cool

If the buggy were real plastic I would buy a dozen (for my Orks, of course). Resin? No, thanks.

Even though I dislike the Warpath rules I was excited about it because I hoped Mantic would go up against GW in the one field where nobody has ever challenged them - large, plastic vehicle kits. Oh well.

I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

Except that it doesn't hold detail as well, it's heavier, it can't be assembled with polysterene cement, it's harder to convert, and you don't get as many options as are provided in a plastic kit.

Does anyone know what's going on with Mantic's last naming contest, for the dwarf riders? Have they declared a winner yet?

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

It's twice as expensive.

AlexHolker wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

It's twice as expensive.

Not to start up thats for sure. They probably dont have any faith in full plastic vehicles to constitute for its initial investment.

kenshin620 wrote:Not to start up thats for sure. They probably dont have any faith in full plastic vehicles to constitute for its initial investment.

That's not really a compelling argument from the consumer's point of view. That Mantic is only doing a halfassed job of their sci-fi line, with only ~8 men worth of sprues between two armies, is part of the problem.

Tailgunner wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

Except that it doesn't hold detail as well, it's heavier, it can't be assembled with polysterene cement, it's harder to convert, and you don't get as many options as are provided in a plastic kit.

- I own some mantic revenant cavalry that would disgree with that statement. There are undercuts.

- True. I'm not a fan of superglue, so I'm using 2-part epoxy on it. Kinda overkill, but I like to make damn sure that my models stay together!

- Haven't cut anything, but it seems to be just like plastic... I mean, sure you'll need a saw to cut through large pieces rather than a knife, but that's about the only difference, easier than metal or resin, for sure.

- Mantic's plastics don't come with a great deal of options anyway, it's no loss. That said, their wraith kit does come with optional extra arms and things.

- As for pricing, we do not know what these vehicles are going to cost at this point in time. Mantic's resin plastic pricing is all over the place. You can get gore riders for £2/ model, but the Forgefather heavy weapons seem to be about £2.40/model. Things could go either way with the vehicles at this point.

- Other issues are mould release (warm soapy water is standard treatment for all my models, regardless of material) and warping on long thin stuff like lances that needs a little work.

It's a mixed bag, but overall better than metal. Once the models are cleaned up and put together, they feel just like plastic, in terms of durability, weight and overall "feel". To me it's the end result that matters.. I don't want my models to break or the paint to chip, and resin plastic holds up a lot better than either metal or resin in that regard.

The "we can't afford to make these in plastic" is in fact a valid argument, because if nobody buys them, then it's a loss for the company which then goes bankrupt.

Mantic are playing a balancing act. It is well aware that people like the people in this thread who would buy plastic, but never even consider resin plastic exist, but the fact of the matter is, they are not numerous enough to justify making a product for.

If you don't believe me, try running the numbers on making your own fantastic vehicle kit.. pay a concept artist to come up with a great design, pay a sculptor to sculpt it, pay renedra $50k+ for the mould, then attempt to distribute and sell it at a low, low price.

Once you run the maths on that, you begin to realise that you would need to sell 10k+ kits before you start making profit. Even GW does not have the sales volumes to justify making everything in plastic, so Mantic (as a company that is about a thousand times smaller) has a much harder time making back the initial investment.

Everyone on the internet is an "armchair miniatures company CEO" (something I've been guilty of myself, I hasten to add), but when it comes down to it, if they were put in charge of a company, it would probably go bankrupt as they get into massive amount of debt to fund what they, as a wargamer, would like to see, but there simply isn't enough consumer demand for.

The company is simply too young and not well-established enough to be able to make everything in plastic.

If that's not what you want, then that's not what you want, no amount of ranting is going to change the laws of physics or overall consumer demand.

I personally choose to make the decision of supporting mantic with my wallet, because I realise that hard cash is what will eventually make them produce the models I want to see, not internet rants.

Good point Scarletsquig. Indeed, very good point.

So, my oppinions are: the Raptor dont look orkish. It may look orxish. Perhaps, that is a great, because anyone can take one and use anywhere. Do you want a fast looking vehicle? Take it. If you want it for your orkz, you will have a great fun making it a "direct from scrapyard", with some plastic card. If you dont like converting, stick with those ugly and expensive GW models

The FF cannon look nice, it would work very well to replace a Manticore or one of those "flak cannons" of IG. Look exactly like what it is: a piece of artilery that can be handled by one person. Expect to see some of them around IG armies...

Anyway, before i see the disambled kits i could not say how i like them. If they are multi-small-parts, them i will be very happy, if they are multi-big-parts, i can not be interested.

PS: resin tipically glue very well with super glue, witch is cheaper than cement glue (and is sold in any supermarket). So, a big kit made of resin have an additional advantage, it is easier to glue...

Full unit of Forge Fathers on Balls:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/09/exclusive-warpath-forgefather-unit.html

I like the sculpts, but I hope there aren't really only 2 poses for the grunts.

They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

It is the universal color of mediocrity.

ntin wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

It is the universal color of mediocrity.

the only thing lamer than Ultramarines are dwarves in space...

Bad call on the colour palette, it only reinforces the notion that Mantic is selling vertically challenged space marines. Heh.

I dont know if i like them or not.

Im disapointed... It can be only that lame colors, but im very disapointed. They seens like very monopose, and legs are too short. That is clearly not what i was expecting... I think i need to see the blank figures to finish my opinion. I hope that is just a bad paintjob...

CT GAMER wrote:

ntin wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

It is the universal color of mediocrity.

the only thing lamer than Ultramarines are dwarves in space...

Nooooo ! Dwarves in Space (TM) are quite possibly one of the coolest concepts possible from the human imagination! It is provable mathematically

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:I hope that is just a bad paintjob...

Oh please... bad paintjob? Really? The paintjobs are absolutely stunning. I think Mantic knows that they look like Ultrasmurfs, and if you haven't noticed, Mantic likes to have a bit of fun.

Go Mantic, I say, this has been well worth the wait! The sculpts are superb. Ultrasquats FTW!

ChocolateGork wrote:I dont know if i like them or not.

My thoughts exactly. I like the one posted several pages back with the multi barreled gun, but these I dunno...they are OK, but not sure if I like them enough to actually buy them.

The helmets on the far left and the second from the right are really ugly. They make everything look worse. I do like how shiny the leader looks.

I reckon they look like awesome Helghasts (spelling?). Indeed, the leader is verreh, verreh cool.

(Edited for grammar.)

For some reason, looking at them I want to scream "FOR ORZAMMAR!"

They still look like full plate Fantasy Dwarfs with a gun to me. Esp. as Fantasy Dwarfs often have guns as well. If the only difference between Mantic Fantasy and Mantic ScíFi is wheels instead of legs on the fast units, it's not worth it.

ChocolateGork wrote:The helmets on the far left and the second from the right are really ugly. They make everything look worse. I do like how shiny the leader looks.

I'm inclined to agree with you a bit. Overall I like them and will probably buy them, but they frowny-face helmet is not great.

Kroothawk wrote:They still look like full plate Fantasy Dwarfs with a gun to me. Esp. as Fantasy Dwarfs often have guns as well. If the only difference between Mantic Fantasy and Mantic ScíFi is wheels instead of legs on the fast units, it's not worth it.

That's because they are full-plate Fantasy Dwarves with guns. Just like GW Orcs are fantasy orcs in space and Space marines are knights in plate in space. I like the concept alot, but I don't think it's a realistic expecation to be looking for more than fantasy races in space from Warpath.

Pan magazines are the win. Other than that, well, it's kind of what I expected of sci-fi dwarves, with their forge mentality and all. Not sure if I like it myself, but I'd say it's exactly what they advertised.

The one thing that irks me is that they're all in the same position. Every single one. And the hero, what exactly is he doing with that hammer?

Nice troll btw Mantic, taking the Ultramarines colours down to the red cloak and all. I hope you made sure GW didn't have that template copyrighted

I think they are great because you can convert them and use them for all sorts, fancy throwing some FW Umbra ferrox Bolters on them easy. SQUATS is back man, the little guys are back.

They almost look 'beaky' : )
And isn't that Marne E.S. Calgary in the middle?

I think they look swell and have a good paint job.
As to the monopose complaints, sure glad that wasn't an issue in Black Reach.
Otherwise, everybody wouldn't complain about AOBR models being...

Oh, wait. Forget what I just said.

The reason these are mostly in the same pose is because these are not sprue-born models. These are resin plastic, and the kit itself will only have so much variation.

mwnciboo wrote:I think they are great because you can convert them and use them for all sorts, fancy throwing some FW Umbra ferrox Bolters on them easy. SQUATS is back man, the little guys are back.

That sir is a rather fine idea

I like the models, but don't care much for the palette. The guns look good.

Here's a better picture, from that brukekkenhoffenkopt or whatever german site that I can't spell is called. Much less washed-out and oversaturated than the BolS pic.



These look closer to the actual models rather than the ultrasmurf dayglow of that first pic.

I can't wait to get my hands on these and give them a proper paintjob. Going to give them ceramic white armour (all over, not half-white, half-bling-bling), finished with a nice smooth coat of gloss, black cloth and bronze guns and details (with some silvers to break things up).. I think painting the beards in a different colour really, really doesn't work, it draws the attention towards the bottom of the head rather than the eye-level. I plan on having some nice glowing orange/yellow on the eyes, heat-cannon, and heat-hammer.

As for basing, I'm thinking martian red ash, with copper nuggets scattered around to make it look like the surface of a mining planet.

Eilif wrote:That's because they are full-plate Fantasy Dwarves with guns. Just like GW Orcs are fantasy orcs in space and Space marines are knights in plate in space.

These don't look medieval to me, they are clearly modern, that's the point:

Well the squats look better all together as a squad, but I guess they've gone from blah to meh for me.

Still waiting to see what the human models are like .. someday..

^Ah! The sneaky Kommandos and Sphess Marens have infiltrated in the thread!!1!

privateer4hire wrote:They almost look 'beaky' : )

Yes, that is what people have been suggesting! It's funny (in a good way).

I rustled up a quick "damage control" photoshop job, to hopefully change a few people's opinions on these. Nothing drastic, simply changing the blues to a nice coppery red.

I've seen the unpainted models in person, they really are absolutely incredible and I think that the painting is the issue here, blue just doesn't get the "feel" of the models properly it's too cool for a race that is supposed to be all about heat and mining and metal, and ancient forged ancestor death masks worn by a race that existed billenia before humans did.

It just absolutely doesn't fit artistically with the vision that the concept artist had in mind and is practically the equivalent of painting Chaos Dwarves blue.

Will get the rest of the squad done shortly, but here's the leader for now:

I like them, personally. I like it that Mantic have clearly chosen their own aesthetic whilst still keeping it broadly in touch with the 40K feel. Lets be honest, the folks at Mantic aren't idiots; they know full well the vast majority of their sci-fi sales will be used for 40K, hence they try and keep it on safe, 'familiar' ground to maximise sales.

scarletsquig wrote:Here's a better picture, from that brukekkenhoffenkopt or whatever german site that I can't spell is called. Much less washed-out and oversaturated than the BolS pic.

These look closer to the actual models rather than the ultrasmurf dayglow of that first pic.

Very nice! Now the "frowny faces" look like regular mouth openings.

scarletsquig wrote:I rustled up a quick "damage control" photoshop job...
...It just absolutely doesn't fit artistically with the vision that the concept artist had in mind and is practically the equivalent of painting Chaos Dwarves blue.

Will get the rest of the squad done shortly, but here's the leader for now:

Well done, amazing how nice these, or any figures for that matter, look when not painted like Ultramarines!

scarletsquig wrote:I've seen the unpainted models in person, they really are absolutely incredible and I think that the painting is the issue here, blue just doesn't get the "feel" of the models properly it's too cool for a race that is supposed to be all about heat and mining and metal, and ancient forged ancestor death masks worn by a race that existed billenia before humans did.

It still looks like a Squat knock-off. Or an Ewok in armour. I don't understand how you can describe this mini as 'absolutely incredible'. The troops look better, but their guns are copied from the artwork Paul Bonner did for RT.

Whole squad sorted!

wow, those in red look amazing. i really want to see what the orx shooters and cqc guys look like. i really want to buy that 270$ deal. im just waiting to see what the models look like.

scarletsquig wrote:Whole squad sorted!

Ok, look what i said? The blue dont suit dwarves very well... But i understand the joke behind it.

The recolor show minis that i Want, the different angles on gunners show me their legs, and they look incredible...

The leader is strange, i dont like him, but i think it is just the pose.

The line have future on my wallet

PS: i dont expressed myself very well up there, i dont think the paintjob is bad in the quality zone, they are superb painted. My problem there was the pallet of colors, wich was solved replacing the blue ^^

PS2: they do look sci-fi, dwarves have a different society, wich dont change to much along generations, so, stethic dont change to much from one generation to another. New gots pretty similar to old in this situation. Claiming they look like "dwarves in full plate with guns" is like saying "grey knights are like fantasy knights with bright swords/lances". They are, and that is their charm...

PS3: the orkz from GW are built around 2 ideias: mad max and modern "unnoficial" armies (jungle rebels). And they look exatcly like green mad max thugs. Oh, and you pointed the komandos pic, wich is a clearly joke with Rambo, Predator and other "jungle US officers" (jungle special forces).

filbert wrote:I like them, personally. I like it that Mantic have clearly chosen their own aesthetic whilst still keeping it broadly in touch with the 40K feel. Lets be honest, the folks at Mantic aren't idiots; they know full well the vast majority of their sci-fi sales will be used for 40K, hence they try and keep it on safe, 'familiar' ground to maximise sales.

Which is amusing coming from a company that promised that Warpath would "be like nothing you've ever seen before".

But I have seen these before. I see them all the time in 40k.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Ok, look what i said? The blue dont suit dwarves very well... But i understand the joke behind it.

Which is completely immature, all things considered, if it truly was a joke.

However, blues and golds have typically been associated with "good guys" in many fantastic settings. It's not simply Ultramarines or Cygnar. Look at the High Elves from Lord of the Rings--they dressed in blue robes and tabards with gold armor.

PS3: the orkz from GW are built around 2 ideas: mad max and modern "unnoficial" armies (jungle rebels). And they look exatcly like green mad max thugs. Oh, and you pointed the komandos pic, which is a clearly joke with Rambo, Predator and other "jungle US officers" (jungle special forces).

...Have you ever actually seen any of the movies you mentioned?
The only one you're right about is "Mad Max" and the Kommandos have nothing in common with "Mad Max"--but the Ork army by and large does have a very post-apocalyptic feel.

The Dark Wolf wrote:PS: i dont expressed myself very well up there, i dont think the paintjob is bad in the quality zone, they are superb painted. My problem there was the pallet of colors, wich was solved replacing the blue ^^

Ah, fair enough then. Scarletsquig's red rendition looks great, but I seem to quite like the blue/gold. Let's be honest, there's only so many colour combinations out there, and there's only so many of these that actually look good!

Kanluwen wrote:Which is completely immature, all things considered, if it truly was a joke.

You're right, it probably wasn't a joke, but if so, how could it be completely immature?

At the end of the day, most ideas and things evolve and originate from a predecessor of some sort.

Kanluwen wrote:But I have seen these before. I see them all the time in 40k.

I have never seen Forgefathers in 40k before. There were once squats. They were similar.

So Kanluwen, i think you made all my points, without understand them lol

Yeah, Komandos and Orkz have not to do, Komandos are outcasts of Orkz society, they dress weyrdly, and enjoy strange tactics... They are a joke with catachans from Apokalipse, and all those "jungle corps" movies. They are very little tied to "ork kultur" (have you ever read the codex?). Ork kultur, is mad max oriented, and only turned to that after the release of the movies (before that, they where just fantasy orcs in the spaaaace)

But hey, 40k is a bunch of obscure sci-fi references tied together (with a grim dark copy of Lord of the Rings), trying to become a "pop-culture" reference. It sooo easy to pick some people ideia and call it "copy"...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

But hey, 40k is a bunch of obscure sci-fi references tied together (with a grim dark copy of Lord of the Rings), trying to become a "pop-culture" reference. It sooo easy to pick some people ideia and call it "copy"...

Are you suggesting that Mantic isn't just producing models for ideas that GW had 15-25 years ago? These are just wholly coincidental creative similarities?

I appreciate that there's a bit of a language barrier here but it seems like you're trying to make fun of the company that your favourite company is entirely reliant on for concepts. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a fan of Mantic, but some honesty about what they're doing would probably make comments like these models being "incredible" a little easier to swallow.


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Cosmic wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Which is completely immature, all things considered, if it truly was a joke.

You're right, it probably wasn't a joke, but if so, how could it be completely immature?

At the end of the day, most ideas and things evolve and originate from a predecessor of some sort.

If not immature, then at least not in any way funny. "HaHa, we painted our soon to be released models in a colour scheme similar to on of GWs most popular factions....haha....ha...hmm".
I'm hoping that they just liked blue and gold.

Necros wrote:Still waiting to see what the human models are like .. someday..

At least there's not much room for Mantic to screw up the body shape on those.

Are you suggesting that GW dont copied the ideias of Tolkien? And added their own flavor to the mix? And after that, added some sci-fi novels to it? And started to take every pop-culture icon and add them into their original ideia?

Mantic proposed scenario have much more to do with AVP future. The minaitures are just the same scale, and the market is happening to be open to that type of product.

Like i said, its to easy to call someone ideia a copy...

So when are we actually going to see the Plastic Multipart (mantic wise anyways ) Minis?

Not really into plastic resin infantry, they look ok but I dont really want them

AlexHolker wrote:

Necros wrote:Still waiting to see what the human models are like .. someday..

At least there's not much room for Mantic to screw up the body shape on those.

Yeah, like GW do with EVERY model they make right? But they had a name for it right? Let me see... "heroic scale"...


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kenshin620 wrote:So when are we actually going to see the Plastic Multipart (mantic wise anyways ) Minis?

Not really into plastic resin infantry, they look ok but I dont really want them

Ronnie said, via facebook, next weekend...

I think that pic was just a way to deal with anxious fans (like me)

Its possible that we see a warpath weekend on Beasts of War

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Are you suggesting that GW dont copied the ideias of Tolkien? And added their own flavor to the mix? And after that, added some sci-fi novels to it? And started to take every pop-culture icon and add them into their original ideia?

Mantic proposed scenario have much more to do with AVP future. The minaitures are just the same scale, and the market is happening to be open to that type of product.

Like i said, its to easy to call someone ideia a copy...

Where GW got their ideas from has really nothing to do with this. Are you really saying that Mantic aren't just providing Squats and an alternative source of Orcs? Or are you saying that they are, but it's totally cool because GW drew on fantasy and historical sources to build their universe?

If you're really saying that Mantic have produced a range of completely original concepts, totally divorced from anything GW has done, then I think you've moved from Mantic enthusiast to fanatic.

It IS easy to call someone's idea a copy, just because it's easy doesn't mean it's wrong.

plastictrees wrote:

It IS easy to call someone's idea a copy, just because it's easy doesn't mean it's wrong.

I'm all for Mantic or any other company copying the hell out of GW tbh provided they do it with quality and relevance. If someone puts out stuff that can enhance what I already own or am doing with my army/collection, then hell yeah copy away.

However: "Space dwarves"?!? Seriously? Whats next "counts-as" Zoats and space marine jet bikes?

How about some "Mega- armour" plastics and some cool plastic scrap-tank vehicle kits...

Nothing on the modern age is tottaly divorced from anything else. You can never do something new and original, just bacause you are inserted in a culture and you think like that culture do. Your imagination is a subproduct of the culture you are inserted on.

Mantic have a relation with GW products for sure, they want to use GW game to make profit with their own ideias. And that is it. You will see some similar design options, but try to se the diferences too...

For example: people keep calling the Forge Fathers "squats", they are not, they dont resemble the GW version of space dwarfs, except for the initial concept (Space Dwarves). Mantic version have much more to do with Fantasy Dwarves developed until space age, and until now i could not see any resemblance (apart from the initial concept) with those squats. Perhaps, it is very clear to me the similarities in the armylist organization of FF and Space Marines, a market ideia made to sell miniatures. Not a copy.

If you will call the Warpath a copy of 40k, them 40k is a copy of something else too. And if we agree in that, it is not a problem. But if I call 40k a copy, you will not like it. So, Warpath background, and the minis associated, are not copies, the game is... and not a good one





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CT GAMER wrote:

plastictrees wrote:

It IS easy to call someone's idea a copy, just because it's easy doesn't mean it's wrong.

I'm all for Mantic or any other company copying the hell out of GW tbh provided they do it with quality and relevance. If someone puts out stuff that can enhance what I already own or am doing with my army/collection, then hell yeah copy away.

However: "Space dwarves"?!? Seriously? Whats next "counts-as" Zoats and space marien jet bikes?

How about some "Mega- armour" plastics and some cool plastic scrap-tank vehicle kits...

Just wait a little, they soon will be there

Ok, those orx are copy, a big copy... I agree...


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Just commenting: its fun to see someone calling space dwarfs lame, and at the same time calling for space orkz lol

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just commenting: its fun to see someone calling space dwarfs lame, and at the same time calling for space orkz lol

Because Orks are cool. Space Dwarves not so much, though I might be biased...

My point was that "ork copies" and/or the bits and components from them can be pretty easily implemented into a 40k ork army/modelling project, while space dwarves have to be proxied for a whole army if one plans to use them in 40k so they are less relevant from that perspective...

Yeah

When i come to 40k (a year and a half ago lol), the only thing i missed was the "space dwarfs". I always liked them and such. It was kind strange to realize:
- space elfs, check
- space knights, check
- space orks, check
- space ogres, check
- space zombies and skeletons, check
- space dwarves... dont check, oh no they check... what? No, they dont check!!!

Them i sticked with the orkz. So im pretty happy anyway... lol

Im so "orkized" that i have to make an extra effort to write orc instead of ork. lol

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Nothing on the modern age is tottaly divorced from anything else. You can never do something new and original, just bacause you are inserted in a culture and you think like that culture do. Your imagination is a subproduct of the culture you are inserted on.

Yes, very meta, and also gibberish.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

Mantic have a relation with GW products for sure, they want to use GW game to make profit with their own ideias. And that is it. You will see some similar design options, but try to se the diferences too...

As soon as the produce something interesting and original I'm sure I will.
They have an opportunity here to produce an original sci-fi game, and instead they seem to be producing an alternate rule set for people to play 40k with.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:For example: people keep calling the Forge Fathers "squats", they are not, they dont resemble the GW version of space dwarfs, except for the initial concept (Space Dwarves). Mantic version have much more to do with Fantasy Dwarves developed until space age, and until now i could not see any resemblance (apart from the initial concept) with those squats. Perhaps, it is very clear to me the similarities in the armylist organization of FF and Space Marines, a market ideia made to sell miniatures. Not a copy.

No, they just look like Squats. The Squats had two threads to their design, something that resembled IG (at the time) and the fantasy dwarf stuff (evident in their egg shaped Exo suits, Epic stuff, and the concept model that popped up in 2nd edition). If you want to pretend that vaguely Nordic fantasy space dwarves wasn't at least part of the direction Squats were taken in then that's just part of your elaborate fantasy world.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If you will call the Warpath a copy of 40k, them 40k is a copy of something else too. And if we agree in that, it is not a problem. But if I call 40k a copy, you will not like it. So, Warpath background, and the minis associated, are not copies, the game is... and not a good one

If you call 40k a copy of an existing game companies universe then I'll not like it, because it's not true. If you're comparing Mantic's wholesale use of GWs concepts to GW using fantasy and historical tropes in their games then I'm probably going to start assuming that I'm not conversing with a rational person.

I'm not saying Warpath is a copy of 40k. I know little about the Warpath rules, and frankly I don't care to know much else if these are the models they are producing. Again, why would someone want to play 40k with a slightly different rules set? Why not do something interesting and new?

plastictrees wrote:
I'm not saying Warpath is a copy of 40k. I know little about the Warpath rules, and frankly I don't care to know much else if these are the models they are producing. Again, why would someone want to play 40k with a slightly different rules set? Why not do something interesting and new?

The rules do play differntly to 40k - Look up the Beta if its still available - They are not my cup of tea, but are certainly differnt to GW's ruleset.

Mantic did say they would come up with something exciting and new, I guess they still have their other races to develop and release, so there may be some hope.

I assume that Mantic have, in part, taken the step to develop their Space Dwarves and Orx to generate revenue from 40ks existing player base, can't really blame them, IF it helps them to generate funds to develop Warpath in new and exciting ways then it will be good for the hobby.

I'm still waiting on spure pics of the vehicles and minis themselves, Still not terribly impressed by the vehicle ideas that Mantic have shown so far, but I am ready to part with some cash if they come up with the goods.

Mr. Burning wrote:
I'm still waiting on spure pics of the vehicles and minis themselves, Still not terribly impressed by the vehicle ideas that Mantic have shown so far, but I am ready to part with some cash if they come up with the goods.

I think plastic resin comes in a bag, not a sprue. So no vehicle sprues

Mr. Burning wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
I'm not saying Warpath is a copy of 40k. I know little about the Warpath rules, and frankly I don't care to know much else if these are the models they are producing. Again, why would someone want to play 40k with a slightly different rules set? Why not do something interesting and new?

The rules do play differntly to 40k - Look up the Beta if its still available - They are not my cup of tea, but are certainly differnt to GW's ruleset.

Mantic did say they would come up with something exciting and new, I guess they still have their other races to develop and release, so there may be some hope.

I know they're different. My point is that why would I play a different rule set just to push around more space orks and other slightly modified 40k races? Do something exciting and new out of the gate. There are no popular sci-fi games that play at the same sort of scale as 40k, so it's not as if you're painted into a corner creatively. Warmachine didn't faff around with vague GW rip-offs before developing it's own brand.

Have they done anything exciting and new in their fantasy range yet?

plastictrees wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
I'm not saying Warpath is a copy of 40k. I know little about the Warpath rules, and frankly I don't care to know much else if these are the models they are producing. Again, why would someone want to play 40k with a slightly different rules set? Why not do something interesting and new?

The rules do play differntly to 40k - Look up the Beta if its still available - They are not my cup of tea, but are certainly differnt to GW's ruleset.

Mantic did say they would come up with something exciting and new, I guess they still have their other races to develop and release, so there may be some hope.

I know they're different. My point is that why would I play a different rule set just to push around more space orks and other slightly modified 40k races? Do something exciting and new out of the gate. There are no popular sci-fi games that play at the same sort of scale as 40k, so it's not as if you're painted into a corner creatively. Warmachine didn't faff around with vague GW rip-offs before developing it's own brand.

Have they done anything exciting and new in their fantasy range yet?

There are only so many popular fantasy tropes and themes.
Popularised due to the emount of pre existing fiction and literature and games around.

There is nothing particularly 'orginal' about Humans, Wizards, Orcs an Goblins, Elves/Dark Elves, Ogres, Dragons, Ratmen, Beastmen, Dwarves/Chaos Dwarves, and Dragons. Change their backgrounds around and hey presto, a new and 'original' game. GW don't have the lock on originality, they just gained mass market exposure for their version.


and yeah, didnt think about resin not being on sprues, would still be nice to see some images of the finished product sooner rather than later.

Mr. Burning wrote:

I assume that Mantic have, in part, taken the step to develop their Space Dwarves and Orx to generate revenue from 40ks existing player base, can't really blame them, IF it helps them to generate funds to develop Warpath in new and exciting ways then it will be good for the hobby.

I think this is it and all about it. Considering the sales of KoW stuff, which apparently have been significant, and that 40k is an even more popular game I wouldn't be surprised at all if these guys sell by the bucket load. If it then allows Mantic to produce a new range of things which exercise their designer's talents and imagination more, then surely that can only be a good thing.

And lets face it here all of these original releases are occupying a 'void' in GW releases, and things which many fans have been clamouring after for ages - Dwarves in Space (other than the odd collectors army, these had completely disappeared yet no other lost miniature has such a reoccurring ghost), a to-scale ork buggy and a thudd gun.

All other things considered, I think there is a very shrewd mind at the heart of some of Mantic's design and planning.

Mr. Burning wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
Have they done anything exciting and new in their fantasy range yet?

There are only so many popular fantasy tropes and themes.
Popularised due to the emount of pre existing fiction and literature and games around.

There is nothing particularly 'orginal' about Humans, Wizards, Orcs an Goblins, Elves/Dark Elves, Ogres, Dragons, Ratmen, Beastmen, Dwarves/Chaos Dwarves, and Dragons. Change their backgrounds around and hey presto, a new and 'original' game. GW don't have the lock on originality, they just gained mass market exposure for their version.

So that would be a no then.

There are plenty of companies producing exciting models in the fantasy genre. Nobody needs to defend Mantic for not being one of them, I just don't see what GW not creating popular fantasy entirely from whole cloth has to do with it.

plastictrees wrote:
No, they just look like Squats. The Squats had two threads to their design, something that resembled IG (at the time) and the fantasy dwarf stuff (evident in their egg shaped Exo suits, Epic stuff, and the concept model that popped up in 2nd edition). If you want to pretend that vaguely Nordic fantasy space dwarves wasn't at least part of the direction Squats were taken in then that's just part of your elaborate fantasy world.

If you think that the Forge Fathers look like squats, you've got another thing coming.

Yes the Forge Father vehicle is a thud gun. Asside from that, nearly every asthetic point between Squats and Forgefathers is different. It's helmeted, armored, angular plate-mail dwarves in space vs parka wearing, ball cap topped biker dwarves in space. The only thing they have in common is being dwarves.

The deisgns are so different that if Forgefathers are copying the design of Squats, then every dwarfish race (fantasy, or sci-fi), by every company since early 90's is a GW copy simply by virtue of being a dwarf.

There's no doubt in my mind that Mantic is targeting Squat fans, but after all the crap they take for their knock-off Space Orks, I think Mantic deserves at least some respect for taking the dwarves-in-space in a very different design direction than the original GW squats.

The real test will be to see if future armies take the Forgefather -new twist on an old concept- route, or the Maurader -let's copy it as close as legaly possible- route.

Eilif wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
No, they just look like Squats. The Squats had two threads to their design, something that resembled IG (at the time) and the fantasy dwarf stuff (evident in their egg shaped Exo suits, Epic stuff, and the concept model that popped up in 2nd edition). If you want to pretend that vaguely Nordic fantasy space dwarves wasn't at least part of the direction Squats were taken in then that's just part of your elaborate fantasy world.

If you think that the Forge Fathers look like squats, you've got another thing coming.

Yes the Forge Father vehicle is a thud gun. Asside from that, nearly every asthetic point between Squats and Forgefathers is different. It's helmeted, armored, angular plate-mail dwarves in space vs parka wearing, ball cap topped biker dwarves in space. The only thing they have in common is being dwarves.

The deisgns are so different that if Forgefathers are copying the design of Squats, then every dwarfish race (fantasy, or sci-fi), by every company since early 90's is a GW copy simply by virtue of being a dwarf.

There's no doubt in my mind that Mantic is targeting Squat fans, but after all the crap they take for their knock-off Space Orks, I think Mantic deserves at least some respect for taking the dwarves-in-space in a very different design direction than the original GW squats.

The real test will be to see if future armies take the Forgefather -new twist on an old concept- route, or the Maurader -let's copy it as close as legaly possible- route.

Again, Squats had that element as well. If you're not familiar with the directions Squats were taken in that doesn't make Mantic more original.

I'd like to see the "real test" to be not modifying GW concepts to varying degrees but to do something that we can't already find in sci-fi TTGs. Maybe their target audience is people with low expectations of gaming companies.

Quite a lot of people really liked the squats when GW made them.

I disagree with the implication that because GW decided to stop making something 25 years ago, that means that no other company should ever be allowed to make it ever again.

If forgefathers = squats, fine. I'm happy to accept that. Why is this a bad thing, again?

When mantic released abyssal dwarves the internet was full of rage.

However, whilst everyone whinged and moaned on the forums there were a lot of Chaos Dwarf fans out there who were really happy about being able to buy the model range again.

The abyssal dwarf model range is currently mantic's second best-seller after the undead, they could barely keep up with demand and their caster was doing nothing but abyssal dwarves every single day for months.

A similar thing could happen with forgefathers, there are a lot of fans of squats still around. What people on the internet simply (and utterly stubbornly) refuse to understand is that their personal opinion is not the only one that exists on the entire planet.

Statements such as "I don't understand why someone could call these incredible" betray that thought. You don't like a model, someone else does. Is this really such a big deal and worth slagging the company and everyone who likes their models off over the course of several pages for? Unless mantic ran over your dog or something, I don't see the point. I don't like warmachine models, but I don't feel the need to troll every single new warmachine release thread with "don't like it, looks way too goofy and anime" or believe that it is impossible for anyone else to enjoy the style of the models. If you hate 100% of everything that mantic does and are currently happy buying GW models, why bother?


Another thing I do not understand is this:

Hasslefree miniatures produce a full range of space dwarves, and have been selling them for years.

Why are there not any rants about "hasslefree suck, they steal GW's hard work!"?

Where have I ranted about Mantic sucking and stealing GWs hard work?

Hasslefree took their Grymm (Grym?Grimm?) in a direction distinct from nordic space dwarves, to me that's the difference between dwarves in space and Squats.

My initial post here was a reaction to The Dwarf Wolf taking jabs at GWs universe while apparently gleefully plugging Mantics product which entirely and purposefully derivative of that universe.
I personally found that disingenuous and obnoxious.

I appreciate that there are people that are happy to have another option for their Squat army.

I personally find the direction that they are taking with Warpath to be entirely un-interesting. They are taking a safe route, following GWs wake. I see how that will get them sales, I don't consider it especially shrewd.

I would say they have made some very shrewd decisions plastictrees. They have got to be one of the fastest growing companies out there and from a relatively small operation - perhaps because several of them are ex-GW, they have recognised shortcomings with the market leader (some of the biggest being price and lack of miniature availability) and are producing products that cater to that demand. They noticed that GW no longer produced a commonly available board game, and produces Dwarf Kings hold for instance. They sold out of their initial print run of 100,000 very fast, those are some impressive numbers for a new company and I'm sure something that most miniature design companies can only dream of.

Eilif wrote:
If you think that the Forge Fathers look like squats, you've got another thing coming.

Yes the Forge Father vehicle is a thud gun. Asside from that, nearly every asthetic point between Squats and Forgefathers is different. It's helmeted, armored, angular plate-mail dwarves in space vs parka wearing, ball cap topped biker dwarves in space. The only thing they have in common is being dwarves.

I agree, although I would say the forgefathers are taking 'Dwarves in Space' in the direction of GW's Epic system conception of squats - high technology, rather than cigar chewing bikers. Really, I think that was the difference and evolution from 1st edition to 2nd edition 40k, but 40k never made that step forward (except in a couple of cases, such as Exo-armour).

Many of the Rogue Trader models look a little camp by comparison to later miniatures. That's not an indictment, merely a comment on their aesthetic styling. Imagine if all viewpoints of orks were based on their first edition version, what would people think of them coming back or being produced again? I think they would receive a similar amount of ridicule. However, to cast such a judgement as "Dwarves in Space suck, look at the Squats lol" is to fundamentally not understand the history of the development of miniatures, and that of course if GW were to attempt to make Dwarves in Space again now (they might well do, as Mantic are doing now) they would follow a very, very different design style to those miniatures which are now more than 20 years old and relics of another era. Something far more dark and gritty, and with less room for humour.

plastictrees wrote:
Again, Squats had that element as well. If you're not familiar with the directions Squats were taken in that doesn't make Mantic more original.

That would be an incorrect assumption. I'm familiar with virtually the entire range. From the classic parka and hat wearing stuties that most folks associate with squats, to the mad biker shorties, to the tubby, power armored, Space-marine'ish dwarves and dreads that I can only guess that one might relate to the mantic range regardless of the fact that the armor design is completely different (rounded and bulby vs angular with sharp edges).

It seems inevitable that any fantasy-dwarf-in-space would bring assertions from you that they are a Squat copy. Thus, I guess we're going to have to just disagree on this one.

They are not "following in GW's wake".

Mantics games play extremely differently to any of GW's games.

Mantics models may have some ascetically similar qualities, but when the world already has established archetypes for many concepts (space dwarves, for example) there is really no way of saying any particular design is original.

Eilif wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
Again, Squats had that element as well. If you're not familiar with the directions Squats were taken in that doesn't make Mantic more original.

That would be an incorrect assumption. I'm familiar with virtually the entire range. From the classic parka and hat wearing stuties that most folks associate with squats, to the mad biker shorties, to the tubby, power armored, Space-marine'ish dwarves and dreads that I can only guess that one might relate to the mantic range regardless of the fact that the armor design is completely different (rounded and bulby vs angular with sharp edges).

It seems inevitable that any fantasy-dwarf-in-space would bring assertions from you that they are a Squat copy. Thus, I guess we're going to have to just disagree on this one.

That would be based on me constantly leaping into all the fantasy-dwarf-in-space threads and declaring them to be copies of Squats? I've already said that I don't consider Hasslefrees Grymmmmm to be Squat rip offs. Mantic chose to develop their dwarves in space to tie closely with where GW was taking them in Epic and the early 3rd edition concepts so that they could appeal to the people that wanted Squats back.

I guess I don't see why my assertion is contentious. They're clearly making Squats for people that miss Squats. They're packaging them with Orcs for people that want different Orc options and that's the flagship of their new sci-fi TTG. That part isn't a value judgment. It's just clearly what they are doing.
Why people feel the need to then throw their hands in the air and start declaring Mantic to be wildly original, oh, and GW totally ripped of Tolkein, and also everything is derivative of everything else man, is beyond me.


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lord marcus wrote:They are not "following in GW's wake".

Mantics games play extremely differently to any of GW's games.

At least read the last few pages of the thread if you're going to jump in.

lord marcus wrote:Mantics models may have some ascetically similar qualities, but when the world already has established archetypes for many concepts (space dwarves, for example) there is really no way of saying any particular design is original.

Ah yes, the long established archetype of the fantasy nordic space dwarf. Who can say where in this great melting pot of ideas that notion sprang from. How can you "own" an idea anyway right?

Oh yeah, sorry, GW invented the Nordic Looking Dwarves. Im sorry for my ignorance about that. o.O

Do you know that dwarfs are "nordic looking" since their "fantasy origin" int "The Hobbit", right? I dont know if there is other references to them before that (except in norse legends).

You know that in D&D the Dwarf (that was a class) wear horned helmet, fur and chainmail, right? And that it was a game based in Chainmail (a wargame that i dont know in details, but that is old like the hell).

So, you are like saying "Mantic Forgefathers are a copy of squats, because they look like space dwarves, and that i what squats looks like".

But anyway, i dont wanted to start a discussion about it. And if you have that BIG necessity to make you point stand. I agree with you, and Mantic dont have nothing original.

(Just like GW)

Why are you do defensive about Mantic producing what are clearly Squats? I understand that you don't want to start a discussion about it as "discussion" to you apparently means hysterical rants about "copying" and GW being terrible, which must be exhausting.

plastictrees wrote:

Ah yes, the long established archetype of the fantasy nordic space dwarf. Who can say where in this great melting pot of ideas that notion sprang from. How can you "own" an idea anyway right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_cosmology

Note the part about the dwarf homeworld.

Yes, the Ancient Norse did in fact have science fiction!

scarletsquig wrote:

plastictrees wrote:

Ah yes, the long established archetype of the fantasy nordic space dwarf. Who can say where in this great melting pot of ideas that notion sprang from. How can you "own" an idea anyway right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_cosmology

Note the part about the dwarf homeworld.

Yes, the Ancient Norse did in fact have science fiction!

I appreciate that anyone with a mantic advert in their sig thinks that any example of something existing ever means that GW is evil. Nevertheless the existence of Dark Elves/Dwarves in Norse mythology is not evidence of a space dwarf archetype in science fiction. It's just evidence that you're trying to be clever.

This "discussion" has consumed much to much of this thread and is becoming increasingly insane, so I imagine I'll leave it there.

I dont think insane is the word. But like squats, forgefathers are not original. They are dwarves in space, nothing special. BUT mantic has made an attempt to make them looks futuristic. While squats were just TINY BIKERS. Nothing futuristic about them except the occasional gun.. But then the imperium isn't advanced in alot of areas that it should be.

I don't dislike the designs, but they are way out of proportion (even allowing for "heroic scale".) They appear to have gorilla-arms.


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The RT-era Squats were predominantly biker/IG looking.
For 2nd Edition, they were going to take them in much more of a "Space Dwarf" direction, as these unreleased figures show.

Wow those are pretty freaking similar to real dwarfs. Just with pipes/Boltguns and miniature midgeterminators

Yeah, just felt a need to dig up the pics since I kept reading people go on about how Squats were "only" bikers/IG-alikes. Especially as Mantic have ex-GW people on board, I'm sure any who spent a lot of time there would have been privvy to a lot more than I have seen.

What was Ronnie's role in GW, anyway?

"For New Orzammar!" And the Dwarves carve a space empire to rival any other! It will definitely make for something a tad different as these new "Forgefathers" will be using some new ideas mixed in. Stubborn fighters with their weapons for shooting and close combat mixed in will be alright, I do not see that big a problem with making them useful in any games I would play.

lord marcus wrote:They are not "following in GW's wake".

Mantic are parasites. They could not exist without GW.

That seems more than a bit unnecessary...

GW are parasites. They couldn't exist without tolkien,

I know they're different. My point is that why would I play a different rule set just to push around more space orks and other slightly modified 40k races? Do something exciting and new out of the gate.

Well, companies that do something different often get to hear: Bah, it is not as big or similar enough to 40K!

Also, I can´t stand the 40 rules anymore, they are to bloated. But I want to use my 5000+ Tau and Elysian armies, so I really look forward to using them with the Warpath rules. And myn folks think in similar directions.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Also, I can´t stand the 40 rules anymore, they are to bloated. But I want to use my 5000+ Tau and Elysian armies, so I really look forward to using them with the Warpath rules. And myn folks think in similar directions.

You know that 40k in 1st and 2nd edition were WAY MORE bloated, right?

And that 40k is just finally recovering from the 3rd edition restart of the rules system?

And that 5th edition is the best edition, codex diversity wise (except for you CSM, you got 4th edition'd)?

It sounds like the one that's bloated is you. Two 5000 point armies?

plastictrees wrote:

Eilif wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
Again, Squats had that element as well. If you're not familiar with the directions Squats were taken in that doesn't make Mantic more original.

That would be an incorrect assumption. I'm familiar with virtually the entire range. From the classic parka and hat wearing stuties that most folks associate with squats, to the mad biker shorties, to the tubby, power armored, Space-marine'ish dwarves and dreads that I can only guess that one might relate to the mantic range regardless of the fact that the armor design is completely different (rounded and bulby vs angular with sharp edges).

It seems inevitable that any fantasy-dwarf-in-space would bring assertions from you that they are a Squat copy. Thus, I guess we're going to have to just disagree on this one.

That would be based on me constantly leaping into all the fantasy-dwarf-in-space threads and declaring them to be copies of Squats? I've already said that I don't consider Hasslefrees Grymmmmm to be Squat rip offs. Mantic chose to develop their dwarves in space to tie closely with where GW was taking them in Epic and the early 3rd edition concepts so that they could appeal to the people that wanted Squats back.

I guess I don't see why my assertion is contentious. They're clearly making Squats for people that miss Squats. They're packaging them with Orcs for people that want different Orc options and that's the flagship of their new sci-fi TTG. That part isn't a value judgment. It's just clearly what they are doing.
Why people feel the need to then throw their hands in the air and start declaring Mantic to be wildly original, oh, and GW totally ripped of Tolkein, and also everything is derivative of everything else man, is beyond me.


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lord marcus wrote:They are not "following in GW's wake".

Mantics games play extremely differently to any of GW's games.

At least read the last few pages of the thread if you're going to jump in.

lord marcus wrote:Mantics models may have some ascetically similar qualities, but when the world already has established archetypes for many concepts (space dwarves, for example) there is really no way of saying any particular design is original.

Ah yes, the long established archetype of the fantasy nordic space dwarf. Who can say where in this great melting pot of ideas that notion sprang from. How can you "own" an idea anyway right?

I did read the thread.

It is not about "owning" an idea, its that the idea already exists as a preexisting archetype that has been shown favor by many over the years and has popularity.


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plastictrees wrote:

I appreciate that anyone with a mantic advert in their sig thinks that any example of something existing ever means that GW is evil. Nevertheless the existence of Dark Elves/Dwarves in Norse mythology is not evidence of a space dwarf archetype in science fiction. It's just evidence that you're trying to be clever.

This "discussion" has consumed much to much of this thread and is becoming increasingly insane, so I imagine I'll leave it there.

Also, that is not a Mantic advert, its a mantic fanatics advert.

The mantic fanatics are a social group, granted an official one, but a social group of fans which in no way is part of the company.

ChocolateGork wrote:GW are parasites. They couldn't exist without tolkien,

Nor would D&D, 95% of fantasy novels written in the last 70 years, or (arguably) epic trilogies (and Tolkien himself took many of his ideas from mythology and traditional stories (and made no secret of it), including orcs. dwarves and elves). How does that change anything Plastictrees has said?

plastictrees wrote:

I appreciate that anyone with a mantic advert in their sig thinks that any example of something existing ever means that GW is evil. Nevertheless the existence of Dark Elves/Dwarves in Norse mythology is not evidence of a space dwarf archetype in science fiction. It's just evidence that you're trying to be clever.

This "discussion" has consumed much to much of this thread and is becoming increasingly insane, so I imagine I'll leave it there.

Nice try, but you don't get to call me insane and then leave it there.

Nor do you get to cast me as some rabid fanboy because for once, you can't find a decent logical counter to support your opinion that GW created everything, ever.

I recently bought a few GW models (couple of the new plastic characters, they are very good), still buy their paints and terrain, and play fantasy.

While it's true that I do defend mantic from time to time, this is only because the company appears to be attracting even more hate than GW lately, and I think it's largely undeserved.

I have no problem with people saying they don't like the miniatures, or the rules, opinions are welcome.

It's the whole "Mantic steal the honest hard toil of GW which the company lovingly crafted 100% out if it's own imgination without ripping off of anything ever" debate that is a bore.

It essentially says "It was absolutely a-okay for GW, when they were a new company in the early 80's, to steal the ideas of DnD and Tolkien and other sources to create their "warhammer" games. It is not okay for mantic to do this."

I have seriously been involved in an argument with someone who was convinced that GW was the "owner" of the concept of orcs being painted green, despite there being thousands of examples in illustrations of goblins and gremlins being green by default for at least 2 centuries prior, and a few select quotes from both Tolkein and early DnD that reference green. All because the mantic studio painters painted them green instead of... oh, I dunno, pink or something, or whatever colour would have allowed the exact same person to make a different complaint of "they don't look like proper orcs, they're not green!"

The whole argument is tired and smacks of hypocrisy... dakka is by no means the worst place for this kind of tedium, BolS is far worse... basically every single one of their news posts about mantic is filled with 100-200 comments of "mantic rip-off GW", "those look like turds, you couldn't pay me to use them".


A) Mantic gets attacked when it makes it's models in a different style to GW.
People say they look too weird, look like crap, and are "too small" because they aren't heroically scaled like GW models. This happened a lot when mantic was first starting out.

B) Mantic gets attacked when it makes it's models in the same style as GW. People say they are ripping off GW.
This happens a lot now that mantic is beginning to produce models that are closer to GWs. They started doing this because the internet spent an entire year ranting about point A and telling mantic "make your models more like the GW ones"


They are listening to customer feedback. If you have a problem with mantic making models that clone GW's, maybe y'all shouldn't have attacked them for making stuff like their elves and dwarfs which looked radically different to GW models.

Can they seriously be blamed for "copying GW", when for an entire year the entire internet did absolutely nothing but state "make your models and your rules more like the GW ones"?

scipio.au wrote:Yeah, just felt a need to dig up the pics since I kept reading people go on about how Squats were "only" bikers/IG-alikes. Especially as Mantic have ex-GW people on board, I'm sure any who spent a lot of time there would have been privvy to a lot more than I have seen.

If the prototypes on your last post are an indication of the direction they were going with the Squats, then I'm glad they let them go. Unoriginal it may be, but Mantic's take is certainly better than those!

The Squat Hearthguard bore more than a passing resemblance to these new Mantic models - complete with faceplates with stylised beards.


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scarletsquig wrote:I have seriously been involved in an argument with someone who was convinced that GW was the "owner" of the concept of orcs being painted green, despite there being thousands of examples in illustrations of goblins and gremlins being green by default for at least 2 centuries prior, and a few select quotes from both Tolkein and early DnD that reference green. All because the mantic studio painters painted them green instead of... oh, I dunno, pink or something, or whatever colour would have allowed the exact same person to make a different complaint of "they don't look like proper orcs, they're not green!"

Got one of those 'thousands' of examples? I'm not claiming that GW was the first one to depict them as green, but that's a pretty authoritative statement. Tolkien's orcs weren't green. D&D orcs were grey-green.

FACT: Mantic gets attacked when it makes it's models in a different style to GW. People say they look too weird, look like crap, and are "too small" because they aren't heroically scaled like GW models. This happened a lot when mantic was first starting out.

That may be true, but it's not relevant to anything that Plastictrees said.

FACT: Mantic gets attacked when it makes it's models in the same style as GW. People say they are ripping off GW. This happens a lot now that mantic is beginning to produce models that are closer to GWs because that is what the internet spent an entire year ranting about.

That's because they are derivative. Also, the people that complained that their models don't look like GW's may not actually be the same ones who think they're knock-offs. I think this statement indicates more about the fickleness of the internet, and the customers that Mantic, GW etc al are courting.

They are listening to customer feedback. If you have a problem with mantic making models that clone GW's, maybe y'all shouldn't have attacked them for making stuff like their elves and dwarfs which looked radically different to GW models.

Kind of a hysterical statement, unless you can point to a post by Plastictrees making that criticism.

Mantic have taken the easy route, putting out a line of minis that are clearly derivative of GW's. Not just their own take on fantasy orcs and dwarfs, but copies of Orks and Squats. This may prove to be a canny business decision, given the apparent backlash against GW (which may be more apparent than real - the internet generates disproportionate levels of outrage and self-righteousness). They may do well selling to disgruntled GW customers. But getting all huffy because someone calls them on their lack of originality is childish.

This thread has wandered WAY too far afield.

Everyone - Please get it back on topic and stop all of the personal attacks.

Oh Alpharius... i had some new arguments to throw in... But its ok...

Just re-giving a "new" people could have missed early:

Via Facebook, ronnie said there will be a lot of new things in Beast of Wars next weekend, i think the first sprues had arrived ^^


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scipio.au wrote:I don't dislike the designs, but they are way out of proportion (even allowing for "heroic scale".) They appear to have gorilla-arms.


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The RT-era Squats were predominantly biker/IG looking.
For 2nd Edition, they were going to take them in much more of a "Space Dwarf" direction, as these unreleased figures show.

Hm, we know that the guys on Mantic worked for GW, i think they are from creative teams, sculptors and such...

Do you know who designed this "new squat era"? It looks a lot like the Forgefathers, makes me wonder if that was not the same "team"...

I loved that exo-armor, and i hope FF big armors looks like that

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Via Facebook, ronnie said there will be a lot of new things in Beast of Wars next weekend

Lately it feels like it's always "next weekend"...

You know that 40k in 1st and 2nd edition were WAY MORE bloated, right?

I know 40K sinceway back when it was called Rogue Trader...

And that 40k is just finally recovering from the 3rd edition restart of the rules system?

Well, they should have gotten Andy Chamber's 3rd edition version out that was really lean and mean.

And that 5th edition is the best edition, codex diversity wise (except for you CSM, you got 4th edition'd)?

It was better than the last ones, but already starts to make the same mistakes made in the old ones...

It sounds like the one that's bloated is you. Two 5000 point armies?

Personal attacks when there are no arguments?

I could rewrite the rules within a short time and make them do the same with way fewer text. But why should I worry. The rules at the moment are what Alessio intended plus all the ballast GW threw onto it after he was finished. A system is bloated when you can achieve the same with fewer text/mechanics. The 40K rules need a good overhaul that streamlines it. At the moment you play against the rules and not against your opponent. Take KoW, not much of a hassle to learn the rules, after 2-3 games they are in your blood and you have nearly the same fun you had with the old GW editions.

scarletsquig wrote:The whole argument is tired and smacks of hypocrisy...

It's not hypocrisy to care more about what a company is doing right now than what it was doing 30 years ago.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Personal attacks when there are no arguments?

I could rewrite the rules within a short time and make them do the same with way fewer text. But why should I worry. The rules at the moment are what Alessio intended plus all the ballast GW threw onto it after he was finished. A system is bloated when you can achieve the same with fewer text/mechanics. The 40K rules need a good overhaul that streamlines it. At the moment you play against the rules and not against your opponent. Take KoW, not much of a hassle to learn the rules, after 2-3 games they are in your blood and you have nearly the same fun you had with the old GW editions.

Sorry that was not intended as an attack on your person, but rather to suggest that at your army size, that is indeed bloated, and you cannot play normal 40k using all of your forces.

I believe 40k rules could be streamlined but I do not believe to the extent that you think they can be.

Scarletsquig, AlexHolker want to close the thread... Lets ignore him?

But let me ask: Alex, you seem to know everything about GW Squats, do you know who are team involved into their canceled "revamp"? Im really curious about it

Duncan, ph34r: 40k need a little bunch of small rules changed, and them it will be almost perfect. Right now it have little space for strategy, and much for luck.
Its like i say sometimes: 40k is a matter of listbuild, luck and lack of stupidity, in this order...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Scarletsquig, AlexHolker want to close the thread... Lets ignore him?

What are you on about?

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
Do you know who designed this "new squat era"? It looks a lot like the Forgefathers, makes me wonder if that was not the same "team"...

I loved that exo-armor, and i hope FF big armors looks like that

Not sure, but being realistic for the era, I'd assume that it was a few guys at the very least, probably including the Perry Twins as key designers as well as John Blanche's input/art direction - along with others who may or may not be with GW these days and/or may or may not be with Mantic. Doubtful it would have been "the whole Squat team" or anything like that.

Yeah, but there we can see a lot influence... i doubt the whole team is in, but im just wondering that guys on mantic at least saw them, and maybe some of them even worked in that...

I'm sure at least Jake Thornton would have seen it, he was working for GW back then.

But I think what's more likely is that some Mantic people will be aware of GW's forthcoming Demiurg release

Sorry that was not intended as an attack on your person, but rather to suggest that at your army size, that is indeed bloated, and you cannot play normal 40k using all of your forces.

That´s all FW-stuff included and if you play Apocalypse the way it was intended and not those slugfests with 2 inch between two blocks of armies 5000 is quite a reasonable size. Of course you need a table with the right size.....

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Yeah, but there we can see a lot influence... i doubt the whole team is in, but im just wondering that guys on mantic at least saw them, and maybe some of them even worked in that...

I'm sure anyone who was part of GW at the end of the RT era and the beginning of 2nd Ed would definitely have seen them. If my memory serves, Jake Thornton was one of the three "apprentices" that GW brought in to live in a shared house and edit the Citadel Journal after 2nd Ed had been out for awhile, along with Gav Thorpe and someone else.

They look a little "World of Warcraft-ish" to me.

Breotan wrote:They look a little "World of Warcraft-ish" to me.

Breotan wrote:They look a little "World of Warcraft-ish" to me.

I never know what people means saying that... I like warcraft (and WoW) sthetical choices. I think that looking WoWish is not bad, except when you fall into "im a christmass tree" syndrome (where the leader fall in).

Miniatures and World of Warcraft both use exaggerated proportions.

Ppl, anyone know how ended the naming contests of mantic?

I recieved a PM from Yakface saying I won.

I was unsure if I should "pre-empt" Mantic in announcing a winner... They may want to unveil the name at their choosing.

Sorry?

So it's Gen. Lee Winning from now on?

Darn, I was hoping I'd win. Congratulations on the win and I can't wait to hear what name they chose.

Has anyone else noted that the winning name on the ork vehicle is the "raptor"

Sounds fast and dangerous, just as it should be to me.

Sounds kind of lame, all things considered.

"Hey what do we call this fast vehicle?"

"I know! Let's call it the 'raptor'!. Raptors are fast, right?"

Might as well have called it "Gofast".

Kanluwen wrote:Sounds kind of lame, all things considered.

"Hey what do we call this fast vehicle?"

"I know! Let's call it the 'raptor'!. Raptors are fast, right?"

Might as well have called it "Gofast".

Yeah, I mean, sheeesh...

What kind of lame nation/military would use a name like "Raptor"?

Pfff...

Buzzsaw wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sounds kind of lame, all things considered.

"Hey what do we call this fast vehicle?"

"I know! Let's call it the 'raptor'!. Raptors are fast, right?"

Might as well have called it "Gofast".

Yeah, I mean, sheeesh...

What kind of lame nation/military would use a name like "Raptor"?

Pfff...

In the context of an air superiority fighter/interceptor?

It's not that bad. "Raptors" in the context of a bird is fine.

But let's face facts here, it's a terrible name for a buggy.

Yeah, pretty lame for sure...


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I mean, there is no thing like velociraptors...

I’ll have to agree with Kan in the fact that it was an odd choice for their buggy. It doesn’t fit very well with the “Dwarven Smith” theme they have going with the Forgefather naming conventions. Raptor seems like it would fit better for an Eldar/Tau type faction.

That being said kudos to the winner.

candy.man wrote:I’ll have to agree with Kan in the fact that it was an odd choice for their buggy. It doesn’t fit very well with the “Dwarven Smith” theme they have going with the Forgefather naming conventions. Raptor seems like it would fit better for an Eldar/Tau type faction.

That being said kudos to the winner.

Its for the orx

ChocolateGork wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’ll have to agree with Kan in the fact that it was an odd choice for their buggy. It doesn’t fit very well with the “Dwarven Smith” theme they have going with the Forgefather naming conventions. Raptor seems like it would fit better for an Eldar/Tau type faction.

That being said kudos to the winner.

Its for the orx

Still doesn't fit.

They're Marauders. It should be something like the Pillager, Raider, or Vanguard.

Not Raptor.

Raptor: a Latin word meaning "A thief, robber, plunderer"

etymology: From rapiō (“seize, grab, snatch”)

I think Raptor is very fitting word for Orx Marauders Vehicle.


(in spanish: raptor = kidnapper, abductor)

You know what else is fitting, given the context of "marauders"?

Raider, Pillager, or Vanguard.

Vangaurd sounds to refined for them. Pillager doesn't sound like a vehicle and i wonder where i have heard raider before?

Maybe I'm just too used to the GW Ork style for naming things, so to me, Raptor just doesn't sound right. Spleensplitta sounds better, but I realize it would just be too derivative of the GW style of Ork. I guess I can learn to live with Raptor.

ChocolateGork wrote:Vangaurd sounds to refined for them. Pillager doesn't sound like a vehicle and i wonder where i have heard raider before?

Then maybe Alessio and Ronnie shouldn't have pushed for "Orx" and "Forgefathers" and actually done something original.

And for the record, who cares if it "sounds too refined for them"?
Most likely they'll do the standard copout and say that the designations are set by one of the other races.

ChocolateGork wrote:I wonder where i have heard raider before?

The Raider trike from Dune 2 and Emperor: Battle for Dune. Duh.

Kanluwen wrote:And for the record, who cares if it "sounds too refined for them"?

Well, you seem to care a great deal about the name.

ChocolateGork wrote:Vangaurd sounds to refined for them. Pillager doesn't sound like a vehicle and i wonder where i have heard raider before?

Hmm.. I... don't... know....






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But yeah, Raptor and Vanguard both sound too ...Imperial. (despite the fact that Raptors are a CSM troop type).

augustus5 wrote:Maybe I'm just too used to the GW Ork style for naming things, so to me, Raptor just doesn't sound right. Spleensplitta sounds better, but I realize it would just be too derivative of the GW style of Ork. I guess I can learn to live with Raptor.

I think between you and scipio.au, you have hit the nail on the head here as far as the design concept for Orx go. We have been told they are more like the 'mercenary' conception, something similar to RT-era orks and before they started becoming more and more bestial with each passing incarnation. Remember the original 'Battle for the Farm' in RT-40k? In it, the orks were trying to get hold of some gold that they had previously left in a farm house. That kind of idea would be completely out of character for the modern perception of 40k orks, who would go to the house simply for "sum 'ead krumpin", but I can see if fitting the Mantic version perfectly.

Wow, that's alot of fuss over the name of a vehicle.

I would think that buyers who are willing to break out of the GW-only gaming point of view are likely going to be free-thinking enough to buy the vehicle regardless of what it's called.

I think the name fits well with the mauraders regardless of it's connotations with dinos, birds or jets. However, I also really like Void figures, and in the Junker's faction you have mauraders (a dune buggy) that fight alongside dino riders, so it doesn't seem incongruous to me.

Kanluwen wrote:

But let's face facts here, it's a terrible name for a buggy.

In Your Not So Humble Opinion, of course!

As far as names go, it is good enough - we all know what these vehicles will really be called, for the most part...

Kanluwen wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:Vangaurd sounds to refined for them. Pillager doesn't sound like a vehicle and i wonder where i have heard raider before?

Then maybe Alessio and Ronnie shouldn't have pushed for "Orx" and "Forgefathers" and actually done something original.

Exactly... maybe they should not rip off all that nordic mythology in the first place... I mean, Tolkien was so bad unoriginal...

Pictures of the hailstorm cannon up on BoW. I have plans for a battery of them now after seeing how awesome it really is.

That's pretty hefty. I envisioned it'd be smaller, actually.

Considering you get six in the mega box, I think its a cracking warmachine

Not to my taste, YMMV. I would have liked to see more tank-like vehicles but oh well maybe they'll do tanks with another army.

Well, the Forge Fathers list has at least two entries for tanks, so I suspect they might come out with some eventually.

That's something I'll look forward to then.

That would make a pretty cool thunderfire cannon. I think I like it.

Squats with Thudd Guns...

What with the FW news..can today get any more retro or any cooler!

Hulksmash wrote:That would make a pretty cool thunderfire cannon. I think I like it.

My thoughts exactly, very impressive piece of kit I may add, just a shame there is a dwarf sitting in the seat

Seriously though, while I love the work Mantic is doing, dwarfs in space are just not my thing though I actually prefer their ork design to the GW one, it seems more... animalistic somehow.

Sorry for this, but it will really look like a rant:

(this is not directed to you Commander Cain, you just make me remember it)

People keep saying about how silly Dwarfs in Space are, but i never see anyone complaining about Orcs in Space, Elfs in Space or Daemons in Space. Serious, im a big fan of those short, stubborn, pridefull and strongbuild guys, i pretty like them in every place they apear (no, Snow White dont fall in this section). And im very glad some company had the balls to make some of them who actually looks like that ideia originally proposed by tolkien, in space.

I dont like elfs, or vampires, and you dont se me ranting about how silly those eldars and dark eldars are (indeed, i like them a lot, they are the better elfs i ever found o.O).

And i have to assume i dont know the squats deeply, but i dont think Forgefathers look squats at all. Squats are one of the only "dwarf-things" i ever seem, that i dont liked, Forgefathers are higly apealing to me...

And stoping to think right now, its strange how the same company made me like their elfs, and hate their dwarfs.

(rant end)

It looked smaller in the concept arts, and is incredible as i expected. It will be hard to put him in a Marines Army, but i will try...

Commander: the dwarf is probably detachable, maybe my orcs got some of them too ^^

(some grammar edited)

A decent looking model, colours aside really. I can see why they are going with plastic resin.

Warpath Weekend is upon us (well, upon Beasts of War, anyhow)!


It starts (above) with an introduction from Alessio Cavatore.

Edit: I stand corrected...

Possibly the turret is removable, hence easy to place on a chimera?

lord marcus wrote:Possibly the turret is removable, hence easy to place on a chimera?

That might work. Maybe slap on some of the Chapterhouse chimera kits that turn it into a six wheeled vehicle and you might have something considerably different and interesting looking.

Looks great, far more beefy looking than I was envisaging !

Pacific wrote:Looks great, far more beefy looking than I was envisaging !

Same here. I can definatly see converting the treaded portion to be the lower body of some miniatures.

That Haillstorm Cannon looks like it should be part of the RoboGear range.

My interest for Warpath was low from the beginning but this and the dull Forgefather models have halved even that interest.
Unless they pull something out the hat with some wow factor I am out.

I am so looking forward to November! This cannon is amazing, I'm loving all of the Forgefather stuff. The resin hero video on Beasts of War is great, too - speaking of which, has anyone also read the background for the humans? It sounds like a really cool Universe!

The background isn't bad. I do think they're taking some obvious swipes at GW in that the badguy is "the corporation" aka "Evil Empire".

Very Meta.

I do very much like the Hailstorm cannon. It does have alot of similarities to a Thud Gun, but it looks to be several times larger as well as styled differently. Excellent!