I will stick with my planned Fellblade using Machinator's resin pieces.
I prefer his style but FW did a pretty good job on this. I do like the main turret but having exposed sponsons just seems silly on such a heavy vehicle.
Why is Forge World doing this to us? Every day they reveal something new that we want.
I promised my nephew a Fellblade. I want one. That is going to be expensive. Throw in the book, some bikes. Each Primarch and all other types of goodness and I'm going to have to get a second mortgage.
From October WD onward, Forge World (and Black Library and FFG) new products will be covered in the same way as GW new products. Horus Heresy has a separate article. HH news get more text on the WD cover than GW news (but the GW gets the pic as usual). Guess that's good news.
Also Newsletter #316:
Games Day UK Pre-release Kits: Space Marine Fellblade Super-heavy Tank
Based upon the same STC data as the Baneblade and Deathhammer super-heavy tanks, which are a mainstay of the vast brigades of the Imperial Army, the Fellblade is a more advanced variant that first saw widespread service with the Legiones Astartes in the last decades of the Great Crusade.
It is most noted for its use of Mechanicum atomantic arc-reactor technology and a reinforced metaplas alloy chassis superior even to that of the Baneblade, alongside an advanced accelerator cannon as its primary armament. These systems are all fruits of Dark Age technologies rediscovered and restored to humanity shortly before the nightmare of the Great Heresy.
The mighty Space Marine Fellblade is a huge multi-part resin kit designed by Stuart Williamson, containing two Space Marine crew designed by Mark Bedford. Packed with detail, this immense vehicle will be available to buy in limited numbers at Games Day UK on Sunday 23rd September.
Space Marine Legion Land Raider, Rhino and MkIIb Land Raider Door Sets
Simon Egan and Edgar Skomorowski have designed sets of Land Raider, Rhino and MkIIb Land Raider Doors for the Death Guard, Emperor’s Children and World Eaters Legions. These door sets will be available to buy in limited quantities at Games Day UK on Sunday 23rd September.
Each set contains a front plate and two side doors for the relevant Legion, and are fully compatible with our full range of vehicle kits. Please note that the doors supplied in the Rhino Door Sets will not fit onto our Deimos Pattern vehicles.
Games Day Exclusive Horus Heresy T-shirts
Forge World Seminars at Games Day UK
At this year’s Games Day, Tony Cottrell and Alan Bligh will be hosting two sessions of the ever-popular Forge World seminar; a short presentation followed by a Q&A session, in which you’ll be able to grill Alan and Tony about almost any aspect of Forge World to your heart’s content.
Each seminar is limited to 150 people and tickets will be available free on a first come, first served one-per-person basis as soon as Games Day opens. You can get your ticket from Games Workshop staff at the doors to the Lakeside Gallery Restaurant, which is near the Forge World Studio area.
Seminar 1 begins at 11am and seminar 2 begins at 2pm – once you’ve got your ticket there’s no need to queue or wait around, simply return to the Lakeside Gallery Restaurant in time for your chosen seminar and you’ll be able to go straight in.
Games Day UK
We’re going to be bringing you a Forge World newsletter every day this week with details of what we’ll be showcasing, displaying and pre-releasing at Games Day UK on Sunday 23rd September.
With less than a week to go, tickets to Games Day 2012 have now sold out! However, it's worth checking with your local Hobby Centre to see if they have any Games Day tickets still in stock.
We’ve also added a Games Day UK page to the Forge World website, and beside our daily newsletters it’s here that you’ll find all the latest information about everything we’ll be doing, pre-releasing and displaying at Games Day.
Thanks,
Ead Brown
Customer Service Manager
Forge World
And there I was saving up for a FW Bloodthirster, Ka'bandha was going to rock! He may have to wait while Angron, and my pre-heresy World Eaters return to the gaming board!
I love the Fellblade, but I've been burned by 100% resin FW tanks in the past (yes Stormblade, I'm looking at you)... so I won't touch it until I have some idea of how the track assembly is done.
Big single-piece affair with moulded-on tracks? Sold.
Separate track sections and individual drive wheels? Die in a fire.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I love the Fellblade, but I've been burned by 100% resin FW tanks in the past (yes Stormblade, I'm looking at you)... so I won't touch it until I have some idea of how the track assembly is done.
Well, it's made simple for me. I won't touch it simply because I can't afford it!
they reference a deathhammer on the page, google doesn't find anything. will this be a new super heavy?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I love the Fellblade, but I've been burned by 100% resin FW tanks in the past (yes Stormblade, I'm looking at you)... so I won't touch it until I have some idea of how the track assembly is done.
Big single-piece affair with moulded-on tracks? Sold.
Separate track sections and individual drive wheels? Die in a fire.
May I recommend the arkurion pattern baneblades. minimises resin required and thus minimises room for forgeworld errors.
I don't want to buy all this stuff but I must! Command upgrades are very nice, I have been waiting for them to bring something like that out for a while now.
Those termies... Wow, just what I wanted, I hope they bring some more variants out as well. (I know, never enough is it!)
They're awesome, but again the prices are crippling. On first look I did think that £33 for the terminators was reasonable, then I realised that they wouldn't have any arms
I think it's important to point out that with only minimal modelling skills it's possible to convert your own pre-heresy stuff, as most of us have been doing for years, for perhaps 1/4 of the cost. I put in spoiler tags so as not to de-rail the thread:
Spoiler:
Yes these guys don't look as good, but they are probably around £2 each, just buying from bits sites and 3rd party bits makers.
The prices FW are asking for some of this stuff is fething hilarious. I work and earn enough money to support a pretty strong liking of wargaming and miniature collection, but it's more the case of not being able to justify the big expenditure for stuff alongside other miniatures I want to collect. The book will no doubt be awesome, but for that money I could get 3 Flames of War rulebooks. For the price of one jetbike I could buy an Infinity starter pack. And £95 for the 'Typhon Seige tank'? After collecting plastic kits of tanks for many years, many of which are far more detailed (and no doubt better made) than the Typhon for a third of the price, it's pretty hard to reconcile the price of that tank. Or by comparison that's 2 armies for Dropzone commander right there.
So can the modern, multiple-system collecting miniature wargamer collect an army of this stuff? Sure. but it means leaving everything else, every other gaming experience in this hobby (which has never been so rich), on the shelf if one is to make comparison with prices. To be honest, other than going mental and buying both options (then suffering scurvy from eating only instant noodles for a month), it's not very hard for me to make this 'either/or' choice. And, I can't imagine that I'm alone in this matter.
I'm not sure if this is posted or not, but there you go.
Horus Heresy Book One:Betrayal £70.00
Fellblade Super Heavy Tank £155.00
Typhon Heavy Siege Tank £95.00
Scimitar Pattern Space Marine Legion Jetbike £25.00
Space Marine Legion Decal Sheets £10.00 each
Pacific wrote: The prices FW are asking for some of this stuff is fething hilarious. I work and earn enough money to support a pretty strong liking of wargaming and miniature collection, but it's more the case of not being able to justify the big expenditure for stuff alongside other miniatures I want to collect. The book will no doubt be awesome, but for that money I could get 3 Flames of War rulebooks. For the price of one jetbike I could buy an Infinity starter pack. And £95 for the 'Typhon Seige tank'? After collecting plastic kits of tanks for many years, many of which are far more detailed (and no doubt better made) than the Typhon for a third of the price, it's pretty hard to reconcile the price of that tank. Or by comparison that's 2 armies for Dropzone commander right there.
So can the modern, multiple-system collecting miniature wargamer collect an army of this stuff? Sure. but it means leaving everything else, every other gaming experience in this hobby (which has never been so rich), on the shelf if one is to make comparison with prices. To be honest, other than going mental and buying both options (then suffering scurvy from eating only instant noodles for a month), it's not very hard for me to make this 'either/or' choice. And, I can't imagine that I'm alone in this matter.
I have more money than time these days. Given that it will usually take me a month to find the time to paint 5 models, and I'll probably find a total of 8-12 hours over that same month to play with my toy soldiers, I can see buying something like those Termies. If I'm only going to paint 5 minis, they might as well be the best-looking ones I can get at, right?
(That said, while they are beautiful, I don't collect anything SM, so they are wasted on me.)
Harriticus wrote: Where are you guys getting the fluff description for Fellblade and so on? Can't find them on the actual links...
Newsletter 316
Also nice Valk you beat me by about 30 seconds. Post up the whole batch though won'tcha?
Done :-)
Nah man I mean the WHOLE batch.
Pacific wrote:They're awesome, but again the prices are crippling. On first look I did think that £33 for the terminators was reasonable, then I realised that they wouldn't have any arms
I think it's important to point out that with only minimal modelling skills it's possible to convert your own pre-heresy stuff, as most of us have been doing for years, for perhaps 1/4 of the cost. I put in spoiler tags so as not to de-rail the thread:
Spoiler:
Yes these guys don't look as good, but they are probably around £2 each, just buying from bits sites and 3rd party bits makers.
The prices FW are asking for some of this stuff is fething hilarious. I work and earn enough money to support a pretty strong liking of wargaming and miniature collection, but it's more the case of not being able to justify the big expenditure for stuff alongside other miniatures I want to collect. The book will no doubt be awesome, but for that money I could get 3 Flames of War rulebooks. For the price of one jetbike I could buy an Infinity starter pack. And £95 for the 'Typhon Seige tank'? After collecting plastic kits of tanks for many years, many of which are far more detailed (and no doubt better made) than the Typhon for a third of the price, it's pretty hard to reconcile the price of that tank. Or by comparison that's 2 armies for Dropzone commander right there.
So can the modern, multiple-system collecting miniature wargamer collect an army of this stuff? Sure. but it means leaving everything else, every other gaming experience in this hobby (which has never been so rich), on the shelf if one is to make comparison with prices. To be honest, other than going mental and buying both options (then suffering scurvy from eating only instant noodles for a month), it's not very hard for me to make this 'either/or' choice. And, I can't imagine that I'm alone in this matter.
Now I agree that you can model up your own pre heresy models with a good bit of skill.
HOWEVER these models are a high bit of skill above what I can do or what I've even seen veteran and advanced modelers do.
These are Forgeworld, they are always a cut above in quality and price compared to GW. About $72-78 compared to GW Terminators which are about $54 here after tax. I'm seeing terminators that are equipped out better, better designed and simply newer more advanced sculpts. I'm a meiser, penny pincher, iron pockets. Hell yeah I'm paying for those cataphracti. the typhon is a bit overpriced I'll agree no real arguements there. The Fellblade is actually not overpriced, Baneblade at $115, Machinator's upgrade kit $65 so thats 180. Modeling wise for the cutting and hacking I'd charge up for a customer to set the kits up right so we're looking at less than a 70$ markup for a model thats about the same price as the original baneblades, far under a titan, and superior in design and detail.
GW and FW are expensive yet, and we enjoy their products and understand that FW will cost more than GW and typically be a better quality product.
I will Agree that you can get nice historical models for a lesser price but I haven't seen a gaming model to date that can compare to FW.
Anything else just look to bubber's comment
bubber wrote:As the girls from Loreal say -
'Because you worth it'
Scottywan82 wrote: Damn right! I am doing a pre-heresy army and skipping the new chaos I'm thinking.
I'm sorely tempted to join you in that plan. All these models are far too tempting... especially the terminators and command sets. Is this GW's sales directive? FW for the adults and GW for the kids?
Alpharius wrote: "Diorama Style Base" for Primarchs = not necessary other than for to justify a much higher price than we had previously anticipated.
...
And THAT is what Lightning Claws should look like!
Annoyed that the diorama base comes with Angron. Cape is all kinds of stupid too. Like the rest of him so far. Was planning on getting the books and the Primarchs. Now, not sure about the Primarchs.
Those are what Lightning Claws originally looked like, IIRC. I know they definitely did for 2nd Edition. Those are my preference too.
Don't really like the Jetbikes or the Terminators. PA Marine stuff looks good though.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: What hateful part of my mind thinks I should get a hundred of these to make the justaerin
Everything I've read says that the Justaerin was a squad under Captain Kibre. Granted the size of a squad is fluid especially in the Great Crusade era but it seems from the first few novels that the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus still had moderately sized companies.
Now what you SHOULD do is 10-20 Justaerin, Abaddon and then flank them with Captain Ekaddon's Catulan Reaver squad in FW mk 4 Assault armor all painted black with the eye of horus shoulders.
Bam 3 named highly designed officers and a heckuva display until you can get your hands on a Horus model.
Also considering the new rulebook I'm willing to bet we see rules for Horus Aximand as well, the new FW command squad upgrade pack there you go, do his 5th company command squad led alongside the 1st.
Display wise this is impressive and variable. The standard 100 terminators is kinda overdone and getting trite. If you want an amazing setup, put more effort into fewer miniatures and this setup is MUCH easier on your wallet than trying to do a "classic" 1st company style.
Anybody know if the Salamanders are supposed to make it into a book? I like the idea a Pre-heresy/heresy marines, but want something that I can also used in the current time line.
I cried a little bit from the Terminators. They are soooooo pretty. And the best part is, they aren't that terribly more expensive than a standard box of Terminators. All my Terminators as these?
I think so.
Oh and Angron looks fantastic. I only hope they're able to do the other Primarchs as well.
Love everything about Angron - diorama, cape and all. Bizarrely, I think the unpainted one looks better than the paintjob in the earlier pic, especially the face.
Might just have to get some of those termies. Lovely.
It is almost like they released their earlier terminators, actually listened to everything people said, and then made these awesome models instead. They are wonderful.
I am looking forward to seeing some Raven Guard action in the next book.
d-usa wrote: It is almost like they released their earlier terminators, actually listened to everything people said, and then made these awesome models instead. They are wonderful.
Or it's like they plan on releasing multiple sets of Heresy era Terminators, much like their Armor Marks...
I want to see the Indomitus and Saturnine pattern Terminators next.
d-usa wrote: It is almost like they released their earlier terminators, actually listened to everything people said, and then made these awesome models instead. They are wonderful.
I am looking forward to seeing some Raven Guard action in the next book.
This. This right here is why I buy more FW than GW. It's why I own multiple contemptors, two titans, and a whole host of pre heresy armour.
I call FW and they replace broken/mismolded/warped item.
I e-mail FW for rules clarification, I get a solid answer.
I send in comments, critiques, and tell them what people want in the central NC area and they LISTEN!
I know FW costs more, I know they do primarily marines but I play marines and it means that the skilled people at FW provide me with models, rules and art that I enjoy regularly. I can only hope that soon GW will begin allowing FW rules and models into regular play considering comments made by the FW staff disparaging people who don't allow FW pieces into normal play.
Commander Cain wrote: Well Indomitus patterns are the plastic termies iirc. Where did you get Saturnine from though? Sounds cool just not sure what model it is!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Never mind! Used google-fu to find it.
It's from the email they sent out, actually.
Terminator armour is the finest protective wargear in the arsenal of the Legiones Astartes. Several different Tactical Dreadnought Armour patterns were developed roughly concurrently by different Forge Worlds during the later decades of the Great Crusade, and most of these, such as the Indomitus, Tartaros and Saturnine patterns, were functionally identical.
The Cataphractii Pattern was amongst the first issued, and suits of this type were even more heavily protected than their contemporaries. Slab-like ceramite pauldrons housed additional shield generators, although this formidable protection came at the cost of the wearer’s speed, and the trade between agility and survivability meant that this pattern was beginning to decline among some Legions at the outbreak of the Heresy.
So if they are going to have Saul Tarvitz, i'm willing to bet that the Mournival from the Luna Wolves will be available too?...Possibly as a command squad, and with the potential for Primarchs? Horus and his Mournival, just for the mere fluff of it all it would be awesome to see.
Also if anyone has read the Night Lord Novels, if these new FW books touch on Night Lords, i'd be willing to bet that Talos, Uzas, and the others appear too. since the night lords novels talk about them being at the battle of tera.
redkommando wrote: How do you think FW will represent the Primarchs?? Stats wise?
My money is on a cut above the Avatar of Khaine. Something like fearless S 6, T 6, Ld 10, 5-6 wounds, I 6, WSBS anywhere 6-10, 4-6 attacks base. probably between 350-500 points, Apoc only. Probably a slew of special rules and equipment boosting that baseline set of stats. Imagine a relic blade in the hands of a primarch, talking strength 8 at initiative 6 AP 3 and thats just a standard weapon not any of the major named blades and tools that the primarchs carried.
But... but... both of those are really nifty designs. I'd love to see an updated version of both sets of Terminator armour, especially the Mk II as I used to have some of those models
endtransmission wrote: But... but... both of those are really nifty designs. I'd love to see an updated version of both sets of Terminator armour, especially the Mk II as I used to have some of those models
endtransmission wrote: But... but... both of those are really nifty designs. I'd love to see an updated version of both sets of Terminator armour, especially the Mk II as I used to have some of those models
The Tartaros pattern is "updated" Mk I armor from what I recall.
So... Forgeworld releases a fellblade after I've already made 5 of the things? While I'll probably pick up one or two, I'll still love my originals the best, knowing that I literally bled to make them.
Not really digging the overly phallic jetbikes though. My girlfriend saw them, and her first reaction was "Huh, so FW is making dildos now?" The subsequent jokes became even more obscene. Probably not the best design plan...
I made up my mind ... this picture with the 10 Cataphractii Terminators just looks too awesome, so I think I will get one set of five with the special weapons set and another set of five with the power fist set.
The Primarchs are on my list as well, but the diorama base is not my cup of tea ...
*sigh* What is it about Forgeworld and really really skinny legs? They've done it again with Angron, and it makes him look a bit weedy - I think his feet might actually be smaller than FW's regular Marine feet
Depends on if you like the more techy feel. I love the Tartaros but the Cataphract pattern is perfect form my IW's. But if it was for any space marine chapter I'd prefer the Tartaros.
Jesus, I just realized I'm going to account for free shipping on all my own at the beginning of next month.....
It took me a very long time to warm up to the Tartaros pattern Terminators. I struggle to see anything but a mini-Contemptor (which I love) however, these Cataphract Terminators? Oh Lord; instant love. They are perfect. I may treat myself to these at the end of the month as a "Welcome to university" present. Perfect for Emperor's Children, IMHO.
Only thing that isn't clear is if the World Eaters he is killing are included, as they are not pictured in picture where the base is removable.
Would guess they are, but other than that I think it sets the tempo for the Primarchs very well. Do need to see size comparrison with some termies as the primarchs are normally described as larger than terminators.
I've never been one to be too vocal about price, I've always been In the "its your choice, moaning does nothing" camp.
I know Forge World have always been expensive, even relative to normal GW.
I have to say some of these prices have taken my breath away though.
Will it stop me buying anything? No. Will it make me more inclined to massively scale back my 'just to have' purchases? You betcha. Only things pertaining to Raven Guard are now on my shopping list.
Worst of all, I've lost that little warm feeling I had that Forge World were somehow on 'our' side. Illogical I know, but I always thought the spirit of the old days was alive at the heart of Forge World. Now I know it isn't.
The price of the book I could handle, as others have stated its easy to spend more on similar items. But a 50% price hike on a Baneblade chassis tank? £50 for a single, fundamentally terminator size model? That goes beyond teeth sucking prices into out and out price gouging as far as I can see.
azreal13 wrote: I've never been one to be too vocal about price, I've always been In the "its your choice, moaning does nothing" camp.
I know Forge World have always been expensive, even relative to normal GW.
I have to say some of these prices have taken my breath away though.
Will it stop me buying anything? No. Will it make me more inclined to massively scale back my 'just to have' purchases? You betcha. Only things pertaining to Raven Guard are now on my shopping list.
Worst of all, I've lost that little warm feeling I had that Forge World were somehow on 'our' side. Illogical I know, but I always thought the spirit of the old days was alive at the heart of Forge World. Now I know it isn't.
The price of the book I could handle, as others have stated its easy to spend more on similar items. But a 50% price hike on a Baneblade chassis tank? £50 for a single, fundamentally terminator size model? That goes beyond teeth sucking prices into out and out price gouging as far as I can see.
I agree with a lot of this, the prices are higher then I expected thus far, its not going to stop me from ordering things but its going to likely make me think twice about ordering a boat load of stuff. Pretty sure I wont be making nearly as many just to have purchases as I do with other stuff
Oddly I'm ok with the pricing on the Primarch. I figure I'm gonna get all 18. And I'm likely to have them painted up professionally. To me these are display pieces and ones I might take out once in a while to play with but mostly display items. So I figure $75 every few months for a Primarch model isn't to crazy. I'm pretty sure the kabuki ones weren't priced much cheaper. Though I could be wrong.
There should be 19 (Alpharius and his twin). There might also be additional sculpts of certain popular Primarchs later. Fulgrim before and after possession? Horus during his show down with the Big E and another one. Khan on and off a bike?
I'm ok with the pricing too, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised that he's not £80. I would now consider getting him on Sunday at GD even though fluffwise he's one of the Primarchs I'm least interested in.
By comparison, he costs £10 more than the Ork Warboss on a bike, and he comes in a really nice presentation box, rather than just a plastic bag with a FW card label stapled to the top.
Pounds (dollars) to points wise as well, I think he's probably one of the best value units from FW.
Does anyone know how it works at GD:UK when buying stuff from FW? I haven't been for about 15 years but I'm going on Sunday. Do you need to know exactly what you want to buy before you go or can you browse through stuff and pick bits and bobs up as you go round the FW section and then go and pay at the end??
Just trying to work out if I need to memorise the FW catalogue before I go and write a wish list of the stuff I want??
I love everything about him apart from the cape which seems a bit too much. Can't wait to see him with a good paintjob. The FW artists are amazing on tanks, not so much on infantry.
anyone else got a bad feeling that hes gonna be in limited number and not just for gamesday i hope and think he will be made in abundant but im kinda scared in case he isnt
nemesis5490 wrote: anyone else got a bad feeling that hes gonna be in limited number and not just for gamesday i hope and think he will be made in abundant but im kinda scared in case he isnt
If he were they'd make a bigger deal of that fact. They're most certainly selling this to go along with the campaign, which doesn't work if they so drastically restrict it. It probably doesn't take much more in the way of resources as their other 3 figure kits but with a huge margin. They will sell these until the masters break.
Legion of Damnation wrote: You can just tell them at the stall they have. There's a few sets strewn about but you can get the rest on your request (hope that helped).
How do you mean, sorry, I'm not clear on what you are saying here.
Have to agree with Tom's observation that the axes are a bit plain (even considering the World Eaters probable disdain for ornamentation) and I'm not a fan of the chestplate, but I think its still an excellent model and fantastic representation of a Primarch. The face and archaic/gladatorial armour in particular are highlights for me.
Great job Forgeworld.
I know I said I wouldnt buy the book due to the price but I'll be buying Angron and using him as a counts as Terminator Lord with a unit of Cataphract terminators with Lightning Claws..
nemesis5490 wrote: anyone else got a bad feeling that hes gonna be in limited number and not just for gamesday i hope and think he will be made in abundant but im kinda scared in case he isnt
This would be the reasurrance you need, from Forge World's facebook page: 'To set your collective minds at rest, none of our Horus Heresy pre-releases at Games Day are limited or exclusive to Games Day. They will all be available to order, in exactly the same format as their Games Day version, in the few weeks after the event. So don't worry!'
Nuclear Mekanik wrote: I'm ok with the pricing too, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised that he's not £80. I would now consider getting him on Sunday at GD even though fluffwise he's one of the Primarchs I'm least interested in.
By comparison, he costs £10 more than the Ork Warboss on a bike, and he comes in a really nice presentation box, rather than just a plastic bag with a FW card label stapled to the top.
Pounds (dollars) to points wise as well, I think he's probably one of the best value units from FW.
Does anyone know how it works at GD:UK when buying stuff from FW? I haven't been for about 15 years but I'm going on Sunday. Do you need to know exactly what you want to buy before you go or can you browse through stuff and pick bits and bobs up as you go round the FW section and then go and pay at the end??
Just trying to work out if I need to memorise the FW catalogue before I go and write a wish list of the stuff I want??
Really nice presentation box? please clarify, what's so nice about this box? and in what way/s does a presentation box differ from a box?
kronk wrote: There should be 19 (Alpharius and his twin).
They are twins that frequently pose as each other. You only need one model, maybe two for the sake of different poses, but they won't be that different.
Nuclear Mekanik wrote: I'm ok with the pricing too, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised that he's not £80. I would now consider getting him on Sunday at GD even though fluffwise he's one of the Primarchs I'm least interested in.
By comparison, he costs £10 more than the Ork Warboss on a bike, and he comes in a really nice presentation box, rather than just a plastic bag with a FW card label stapled to the top.
Really nice presentation box? please clarify, what's so nice about this box? and in what way/s does a presentation box differ from a box?
I don't think he really needs to explain/clarify much more than what he said.
The little box he comes in looks to be very similar to the nice, silver inlaid "Book Holders" that came with the "Siege of Vraks" campaign books.
It's still a cardboard box, certainly, but it looks nice.
Nuclear Mekanik wrote: I'm ok with the pricing too, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised that he's not £80. I would now consider getting him on Sunday at GD even though fluffwise he's one of the Primarchs I'm least interested in.
By comparison, he costs £10 more than the Ork Warboss on a bike, and he comes in a really nice presentation box, rather than just a plastic bag with a FW card label stapled to the top.
Really nice presentation box? please clarify, what's so nice about this box? and in what way/s does a presentation box differ from a box?
I don't think he really needs to explain/clarify much more than what he said.
The little box he comes in looks to be very similar to the nice, silver inlaid "Book Holders" that came with the "Siege of Vraks" campaign books.
It's still a cardboard box, certainly, but it looks nice.
It's a box that looks like it's made from thick, textured black card, with silver inlaid font... compared to the normal FW presentation of a plastic bag stapled shut with a card label on, this is a presentation box. It might as well be a solid gold chest lined with padded red velvet, complete with a choir that sings every time you open the lid, compared to what we are used to.
They really need to bring in a professional for painting, for such a huge release like this, to throw out that model with that paint job is a horrible decision.
FW painters are more used to tanks. I would say they are some of the best tank painters out there actually! By no means is it a bad paintjob, I would certainly be hard pressed to do better! I see where you are coming from though. I mentioned the same thing last page.
Fists of the emperor wrote: They really need to bring in a professional for painting, for such a huge release like this, to throw out that model with that paint job is a horrible decision.
I'd hardly call it a horrible paint job. In fact, it's pretty close to the art.
Legion of Damnation wrote: You can just tell them at the stall they have. There's a few sets strewn about but you can get the rest on your request (hope that helped).
How do you mean, sorry, I'm not clear on what you are saying here.
Basically, Forge world have a stall at games day. It's a massive table with staff behind it and there were kits on top of it. If the kit you were looking for wasn't there, you could ask a staff member to fetch the correct kit from the stacks of crates behind the stall. Sorry about the unclear answer - I was typing from my phone hope it cleared things up.
Fists of the emperor wrote: They really need to bring in a professional for painting, for such a huge release like this, to throw out that model with that paint job is a horrible decision.
I'd hardly call it a horrible paint job. In fact, it's pretty close to the art.
QFT, it's not the normal style of painting that we're used to (nor what I prefer), but I completely appreciate the technical merit of FW's gritty paint jobs. Their painting books are also pretty inspirational.
I'm not refuting the fact that their tanks look amazing and the weathering is some of the best I've seen, but this is a primarch, even when they are on the battle field it should look better than just brazen brass with a wash, not to mention the flesh tone and face paint look horrible.
Fists of the emperor wrote: I'm not refuting the fact that their tanks look amazing and the weathering is some of the best I've seen, but this is a primarch, even when they are on the battle field it should look better than just brazen brass with a wash, not to mention the flesh tone and face paint look horrible.
And what you're missing is that this is Angron.
He didn't give a crap about how he looked. He only wore such heavily gilded armor because it was gifted to him by the Emperor. His chainaxes were a pair he made himself.
Hell, the whole reason the World Eaters are red in the "present" for 40k's background is because they are echoing the fact that he and his Legion did not bother cleaning their armor of blood after they purged their Legion of Loyalists.
I think the paint job looks really good it really brings out the wartorn battle look of the grim dark future.
I always prefer the FW battlefield looks to the clean GW style.
The brass is spot on in my opinion, I believe there was a lot more work involved than just brass with a wash. You can see the different shades of metal on the flatter surfaces.
I think the price is perfectly reasonable. Since I'm not uber wealthy, I want all the Primarchs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford them all at this price. But I could totally see buying all of my favorites at this price. No complaints from me, though I think the paint job on Angron could be better.
Put me down for Horus, Mortarion, and Alpharius/Omegon if they're as good quality as this guy.
P.S. I guess with this Horus Heresy thing we can expect to finally get a new Abaddon, as well. That makes me happy.
I like Angron more now that I could see the 360 degree turnaround.
Still not a fan of the designs from Blanche, but the sculptor managed a really well done piece. Still hate the cape and diorama base though.
~Eric
Edit:
I can't wait to see them all, honestly. They all have something that makes them interesting as characters that makes me want to see them as models.
Top ones that I am looking forward to would be Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, and Leman Russ.
Just had a look back at the tanks, and I really do like them a lot. Feels like well done Rogue Trader era stuff (which they were obviously shooting for).
I guess what I'm saying is this, that for all the details that were put into that model, forgeword would have been better off painting it in a different style to highlight the detail, rather than a very dark model with weathering that prevents the buyer from seeing the product
The Mournival
Garro
Lucius
Typhon
Kharn
Saul Tarvitz
The Deathshroud
Ka'Bandha
Nero Vipus
Erebus
Eristede Kell
Koyne
The Garantine
Iota
Jenniker Solam
Fon Tariel
All good looking stuff. Definitely preordering the book. Also, loving the jet bikes. Question now becomes - Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors or White Scars?
Also, just thinking, I wonder how much this will distract from the main 40k release, especially codex chaos? From my point of view, this is so much more interesting and exciting (compare what Forgeworld has put out for this so far to the GW produced toy-esque chaos action figures - batteries not included!)
I'm really looking forward to more Primarchs. I think the minis/models will become more inspired and better over time. Although I'm not sure I can wait for Sanguinius and Perturabo!
Those are the only 2 that I must have, but I guess it will all depend on how the rest look. I like the Imperial Fists and Night Lords as well.
It all comes down to how FW works out the dioramas. I really like the way you can remove the smaller base to actually use the figures.
Someone else brought it up earlier, I too am wondering if there will be multiple versions of certain Primarchs for the different stages of the HH or perhaps something like a final battle diorama with Horus, Sang, Big E, etc...
This thing is really a way for FW to basically just print money. All the special characters they could make, battle scenes, multiple version of Primarchs, it just goes on and on.
Darth Bob wrote: I think the price is perfectly reasonable. Since I'm not uber wealthy, I want all the Primarchs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford them all at this price. But I could totally see buying all of my favorites at this price. No complaints from me, though I think the paint job on Angron could be better.
Put me down for Horus, Mortarion, and Alpharius/Omegon if they're as good quality as this guy.
P.S. I guess with this Horus Heresy thing we can expect to finally get a new Abaddon, as well. That makes me happy.
Hang on. Are you actually saying that you're okay that the prices are so high that you cent afford to buy everything you would like to? Despite the items in question having a very low intrinsic cost per unit and the likely demand offsetting the usual low volume arguments that can be applied to Forge World?
We were daft not to think FW wouldn't naturally price gouge anything relating to the Heresy.
As someone else said however, I did kind of think FW 'was on our side'. This blatant money grab is a bit disappointing.
The MkII and MkIII armors were a test. As were the Tartaros. They have probably sold buckets loads of them by now. So they new they could charge more for Heresy specific stuff.
The price is not bad in my opinion. Forgeworld is the luxury of luxury items, for the really dedicated group of people that are willing to spend that type of cash. Like some above posters stated, these models will be bought by the collectors and painters, not so much as the competitive players. Angron looks amazing, so much better than any third party knockoff. I'm not even a fan of the Primarch, but I may buy this model. I'll have to make sure I have the funds to buy Sanguiniues, Magnus, Curze, and Corax. I'm so excited!
Also if this sized model with the great base was sold like a regular GW model, it would cost most likely $50-$60.
i am so stoked to see Angron in a mini diorama...
so much more interesting than just a single mini...
i'll definitely be giving the Primarchs the treatment...
i'm a fan of the paintwork...
very fitting, in my opinion...
saying that Forgeworld needs to hire "professional painters" is a huge insult to the boys at Forgeworld...
i much prefer the look of the Forgeworld painters to the bog standard stuff done by the EM team...
they shine on character minis, but the old one tone with a line highlight is not up to snuff with the current state of most small companies studio artists...
'Eavy Metal troops are meant to be painted simply so that the hobbyists can easily recreate the schemes...
i find it refreshing that Forgeworld can go with more advanced techniques, and much grittier paintjobs, than the EM studio...
Darth Bob wrote: I think the price is perfectly reasonable. Since I'm not uber wealthy, I want all the Primarchs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford them all at this price. But I could totally see buying all of my favorites at this price. No complaints from me, though I think the paint job on Angron could be better.
Put me down for Horus, Mortarion, and Alpharius/Omegon if they're as good quality as this guy.
P.S. I guess with this Horus Heresy thing we can expect to finally get a new Abaddon, as well. That makes me happy.
Hang on. Are you actually saying that you're okay that the prices are so high that you cent afford to buy everything you would like to? Despite the items in question having a very low intrinsic cost per unit and the likely demand offsetting the usual low volume arguments that can be applied to Forge World?
Don't get it.
You can't always get what you want. I don't find whining about it helpful. I also don't think boycotting it is beneficial to me, because I still want them, and boycotting doesn't help me get them. I can complain and complain about how GW/FW has it out for us, or how the prices are ridiculous, but it won't change anything. I try not to pretend that it does. GW and FW will do what they do, and I'll just have to work around it.
That being said, I really don't think the price is unreasonable. I just can't afford all of them. Just because I can't afford a Porsche doesn't mean I should complain that Porsches are too expensive. Furthermore, if I can't afford every color of Porsche I want, I'm not going to complain. I'll just be thankful that I can get the ones I want at a reasonable value.
I wish the model would detach from the diorama, so you can place him on a round base and be a basic, yet cool looking model to field. As for some of these models interlocking I think it would just be an opportunity to sell 2 primarchs together and/or just charge a fortune for the models.
Darth Bob wrote: I think the price is perfectly reasonable. Since I'm not uber wealthy, I want all the Primarchs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford them all at this price. But I could totally see buying all of my favorites at this price. No complaints from me, though I think the paint job on Angron could be better.
Put me down for Horus, Mortarion, and Alpharius/Omegon if they're as good quality as this guy.
P.S. I guess with this Horus Heresy thing we can expect to finally get a new Abaddon, as well. That makes me happy.
Hang on. Are you actually saying that you're okay that the prices are so high that you cent afford to buy everything you would like to? Despite the items in question having a very low intrinsic cost per unit and the likely demand offsetting the usual low volume arguments that can be applied to Forge World?
Don't get it.
You can't always get what you want. I don't find whining about it helpful. I also don't think boycotting it is beneficial to me, because I still want them, and boycotting doesn't help me get them. I can complain and complain about how GW/FW has it out for us, or how the prices are ridiculous, but it won't change anything. I try not to pretend that it does. GW and FW will do what they do, and I'll just have to work around it.
That being said, I really don't think the price is unreasonable. I just can't afford all of them. Just because I can't afford a Porsche doesn't mean I should complain that Porsches are too expensive. Furthermore, if I can't afford every color of Porsche I want, I'm not going to complain. I'll just be thankful that I can get the ones I want at a reasonable value.
True, and though they are expensive I enjoy the game too much to boycott becuase I can't buy a lot of pieces all at once, instead I just buy what I can as I can...and besides they are too cool looking to not want one of everything. It also comes down to the want/need of it all...do i need it? No Do I want it? Hell Yeah!
The plan is: Ferrus Manus and a handful of the Cataphract termies for Morlocks, Mortarion and The Deathshroud, and Horus and The Mournival, if all of those get made. The best thing about the obscene prices GW charge in the Southern Hemisphere is FW prices are the same and sometimes cheaper.
Darth Bob wrote: I think the price is perfectly reasonable. Since I'm not uber wealthy, I want all the Primarchs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford them all at this price. But I could totally see buying all of my favorites at this price. No complaints from me, though I think the paint job on Angron could be better.
Put me down for Horus, Mortarion, and Alpharius/Omegon if they're as good quality as this guy.
P.S. I guess with this Horus Heresy thing we can expect to finally get a new Abaddon, as well. That makes me happy.
Hang on. Are you actually saying that you're okay that the prices are so high that you cent afford to buy everything you would like to? Despite the items in question having a very low intrinsic cost per unit and the likely demand offsetting the usual low volume arguments that can be applied to Forge World?
Don't get it.
Describe "low intrinsic cost per unit" taking into account the man hours put into this kind of sculpt, including research time and pre-sculpt drawings etc. They HAD to get this right, especially as the first one to be released. Now put all of those man hours at a decent wage (you can bet that the FW design team are NOT on minimum wage, and nor should they be.
Bang, the cost of putting this model together will have been huge, I genuinely believe the price tag is lower than it could have been because they know they will sell plenty of these. If this was some low-moving Dark Eldar character of similar calibre, you can bet the price would be double to make up for lack of sales. Don't kid yourself into thinking you are only paying for the box and the raw materials in the resin.
Look at the Ork Warboss on bike model, at £40. Now look at Angron, at £50. The price difference is a cheap round of drinks, or less than 2 copies of White Dwarf. Blatant money grab*?? Really??
*Quoted from a different poster to the one I quoted above.
Saw this model fully done up in the latest White Dwarf, and it is amazing. While the Space Marine proportions have never been real accurate, it looks like the Primarchs will be suitably larger than the average marine if Angron is any indication. I was amazed by the figure itself, and he was destroying his way through a couple of marines. A promising sign of things to come. Cheers.
Astroman wrote: Saw this model fully done up in the latest White Dwarf, and it is amazing. While the Space Marine proportions have never been real accurate, it looks like the Primarchs will be suitably larger than the average marine if Angron is any indication. I was amazed by the figure itself, and he was destroying his way through a couple of marines. A promising sign of things to come. Cheers.
They did say in the seminar that the horus heresy armies were designed to be played against other heresy armies too, we were told that they may be quite OP against some of your average 40k armies and that you should ask first before playing someone to prepare them for the smackdown !
Some armies however, mainly horde ones, did ok against them.
They basically said that an army featuring a Primarch would only be a fair fight against a regular 40k army in a huge battle... Apoc scale and things work ok. Combat Patrol and it just won't work.
It was also suggested that highly mobile strike and move armies like Eldar, as well as high number gunline armies, did significantly better against heresy era armies than low model count armies like GK. It seems that whatever gets shot/hit gets killed, wether it's a GK Terminator or a Grot, so you'd better have plenty of targets to offer to keep the game going long enough to get some shots in.
heres part 1 of a ( very brief) rundown of the full crusade list
legion praetor ( equivilant of chapter master , can take rites of war which change how army functions , armoured spearhead , orbital assault, angels wrath or pride of the legion )
legion centurion ( a catch all hq choice , 50 pts basic , but can be upgraded to one of NINE different specialisations . chaplain , master of signals , legion champion , vigilator , librarian , forge lord , primus medicae , siege breaker or moritat )
legion command squad ( pretty much same , 3 man strong with able to add 2 more)
veteran tactical squad ( ten strong only , can add one of a list: fearless , sniper , furious charge, outflank or tank hunters )
legion destroyer squad (uses proscribed weapons , Rad missiles , phosphex bombs )
legion terminator squad ( can count as scoring units)
techmarine covenant (1-3 techmarines as a single elite choice, each can have 4 servitors with them )
apothecarion detatchment ( 1-3 apothecaries ,each MUST be attatched to a squad)
legion dreadnought talon (1-3 dreads )
contemptor dreadnought talon (1-3 contemptors )
legion rapier battery ( 1-3 rapier destroyers , can be upgraded to thudd gun or graviton cannon)
legion tactical squad ( 10-20 marines , fury of the legion special rule )
legion assault squad ( yes , troops choice lol , 10-20 marines , 1 in every 5 marines can take power wep orhand flamer / plasma pistol )
legion siege breaker squad ( 10-20 marines , boarding shields , 1 in every 5 can take a special wep , graviton gun , lascutter etc, all have void hardened armour )
legion tactical support squad (5-10 marines , all marines except sergeant , yes all 9, have flamers , can be upgraded a different special wep. squad cant be used to fill compulsory troops choices )
legion recon squad ( 5-10 marines in power armour , scout , outflank and acute senses , may have sniper rifles . can remove power armour for scout armour and gain move through cover and infiltrate )
rhino ( as before but can take pintle mounted h. bolter , h. flamer or havoc launcher )
drop pod ( unchanged )
thats hq , elites and troops , ill do fast attack , heavy support and ' gods of war , in a bit
(...)
Okay , fast attack , heavy support and gods of war
legion seeker squad ( headhunters , designed to take out enemy command elements , 5-10 strong , special issue ammo ' marked for death' special rule , gain preffered enemy against one enemy unit or independant character )
legion outrider squad ( 3-10 bike squad , scout special rule , all bikes have twin linked bolters.. ALL marines can swap these out for twin linked flamers , melta guns or plasma guns, 1 in 3 can have power weapon , hand flamer or plasma pistol )
legion attack bike squadron (1-5 strong h. bolter can be swapped out for h. flamer, autocannon or multi-melta )
legion jetbike sky-hunter squadron (3-10 strong , 1 in 3 can replace jetbike mounted h.bolter with multi-melta , volkite cannon or plasma cannon , deep strike special rule )
legion land speeder squadron (1-5 strong , and speeder may replace h. bolter with h. flamer or multi-melta . any speeder can add a havoc launcher , h. bolter , PLASMA CANNON! or graviton gun in addition. any speeder can also take upto 2 H.K.M's )
legion storm eagle gunship ( as before )
legion heavy support squad (5-10 strong all marines in squad ( including sergeant! have a h. bolter . all may swap out for a different weapon , but MUST all take the same kind of weapon . H. flamer , autocannon , missile launcher ( may be upgraded to carry flakk) multi-melta , plasma cannon , volkite culverin or lascannon. entire squad may have hardened armour )
legion predator strike squadron ( 1-3 predators , includes all the forgeworld options EXCEPT twinlinked lascannon. predator turret autocannon is now heavy 4)
legion land raider battle squadron ( 1-3 landraiders any of which may be phobos or proteus , but only one of which may be an achilles )
0-1 legion artillery tank squadron ( 1-3 of a whirlwind , basilisk or medusa. ww may be upgraded to anti-air )
legion vindicator ( as before , but can take pintle mounted h.bolter / h. flamer or havoc launcher )
legion spartan assault tank (25 troop carry capacity , quad lascannons may be swapped for rapier destroyers , may take frag launchers. assault vehicle , 5 hull points )
legion caestus assault ram ( largely unchanged )
gods of war
legion fellblade super heavy tank (turret mounted twin ' accelerator cannon' high explosive round - 100" range , strength 8 ap 3 ord 1 , 7" blast , primary weapon
armour piercing shell - 100" range ,heavy 1, strength 9 ap 2, armourbane ,3" blast
legion typhon heavy siege tank ( basically a ****** huge vindicator , no transport capacity. dreadhammer siege cannon. 24" if moving , 48" if stationary, strength 10 ap 1, ord 1 , 7" blast no cover saves . has crushing weight special rule . auto passes difficult or dangerous terrain tests for rubble ,barricades , walls , ruined buildings or wreckage.
auto inflicts strength 10 ap 2 ram damage NO MATTER HOW FAR IT HAS MOVED ! )
legion cerberus heavy tank destroyer (super heavy land raider , twin linked neutron destroyer laser battery)
legion malcador assault tank ( largley unchanged , may only take battlecannon and twin linked lascannon turrets )
bear in mind this is the briefest glimpse , not counting all the different weapon options , new weapons , legion specific squads and mechanicus units
I wonder if the Emperor's Children rules will reflect some of the changes Fabius Bile had already done to them prior to Istaan III, but after the encounter with the Laer, ie, Eidelon's sonic scream augment and the combat stims.
I don't know if this has been addressed already or not, but are the primarch models going to be limited edition? The thought just occurred to me and I thought that would be the stupidest fething thing they ever did if true.
Tyr Grimtooth wrote: I wonder if the Emperor's Children rules will reflect some of the changes Fabius Bile had already done to them prior to Istaan III, but after the encounter with the Laer, ie, Eidelon's sonic scream augment and the combat stims.
Lord Magnus wrote: Horus is balanced and not overpowered, and has realistic stats, I am VERY happy with this.
I agree with this.
Sure, everyone wants "their" Primarch to be Movie Marine and punch a Titan to death, but keeping them usable in games makes it more fun for all. It also gives me more hope/excitement for the other special characters that show up in each army.
Lots of good things seem to be coming down the road, I just hope that road isn't too long!
Amaya wrote: Well it looks like Horus is both a melee beat stick and a hell of a force multiplier.
As should/will be all the Primarchs I imagine...
Hopefully not. That would be bland.
I fail to see (apart from Magnus and Alpharius/Omegon in particular) why the Primarchs would generally be anything else?
They are veritable gods of war, which means running around beating to death Greater Daemons and Avatars etc., whilst acting as the greatest generals of the Great Crusade, no?
H.B.M.C. wrote: What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?
I would bet that FW will have that diorama in addition to another with them avaiable individually.
The amount of possibilities to milk this cash cow are endless.
So many stories, so many chances to make little dioramas from those stories, and FW is even adding some additional Special Characters to flesh out and "even up" the Legions.
It's a great time to be a Space Marine player/collector and a bad time for wallets everywhere.
H.B.M.C. wrote: What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?
Given that it looks like they did that for Abaddon and Loken, I'd say it's likely.
I gues you are right. But hopefully one is able to put the models on a single base as well (see Angron).
And the Abaddon/Loken diorama is work in progress, isn't it? Because the Loken model was nothing special, just a normal Space Marine taking the place where Loken is supposed to stand ...
As long as Ferrus comes with some kind of detachable head option?
Well have to say a pretty awesome range of models so far. Interesting seeing people saying that these are 'luxury of luxury' sculpts though (to give one example) - a short look at a website that deals with the miniature wargaming hobby, as opposed to solely GW miniatures, would quickly dispel that notion. They are bloody nice though, and given that FW are the only people making the 'official' version, a lot of the fans (many of whom have waited for years for this release) will no doubt hand over the money even if they get that old guilty 'I probably should have spent that on something else, like new tyres for my car, but sod it' feeling.
Like a lot of other pre-heresy enthusiasts out there, who have been interested in this since the CCG and made armies years ago, I might well make a post on the main 40k page about making a pre-heresy army using non-FW options. Just for the younger/less disposable income wielding fans out there now who are feeling more than a little miffed that this awesome range (and with it, a boost in the number of PH players) has come along yet they are going to be excluded from it because they simply can't afford it. That is completely not true - it's possible to make good facsimiles of PH armour/weaponry and tanks for a fraction of the price that FW are asking.
Pacific wrote: As long as Ferrus comes with some kind of detachable head option?
Well have to say a pretty awesome range of models so far. Interesting seeing people saying that these are 'luxury of luxury' sculpts though (to give one example) - a short look at a website that deals with the miniature wargaming hobby, as opposed to solely GW miniatures, would quickly dispel that notion. They are bloody nice though, and given that FW are the only people making the 'official' version, a lot of the fans (many of whom have waited for years for this release) will no doubt hand over the money even if they get that old guilty 'I probably should have spent that on something else, like new tyres for my car, but sod it' feeling.
Like a lot of other pre-heresy enthusiasts out there, who have been interested in this since the CCG and made armies years ago, I might well make a post on the main 40k page about making a pre-heresy army using non-FW options. Just for the younger/less disposable income wielding fans out there now who are feeling more than a little miffed that this awesome range (and with it, a boost in the number of PH players) has come along yet they are going to be excluded from it because they simply can't afford it. That is completely not true - it's possible to make good facsimiles of PH armour/weaponry and tanks for a fraction of the price that FW are asking.
That is a great idea. I have already run the numbers on a 10 man FW marine squad against a 10 man AI Steam Lords squad and the Anvil Industries boys come in at under half the cost. (i included shipping in my math)
I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks
Guess I have to keep hoping otherwise I owe someone a coke.
btw, horus is terrifying, vets and termies as troops, CHOOSING what turn he comes in not scattering when he does, +1 LD to all sons of horus. stat profile that would make mephiston cry and enough special rules and wargear that make him truly warmaster.
Angron is only 80% of horus' points but still nasty, anti tank, anti infantry, can fight multiple challenges, only has a 3+/4+ though, makes his world eaters in 12" away fearless and gets +1 attack for every unit/independant character he finishes off.
Horus makes me think about doing Sons of Horus pre Davin or if I can find transfers (or a transfer image template) Luna Wolves.
carabine wrote: I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks
it says "For those of you that weren't at Games Day, both Angron and Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal will be available to pre-order from the Forge World website within the next few weeks"
carabine wrote: I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks
it says "For those of you that weren't at Games Day, both Angron and Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal will be available to pre-order from the Forge World website within the next few weeks"
WEEKS? Ugh, okay I love FW's customer service and talent but for christssake get some business reps in there. First their standard line as to why they won't sell their books through local retailers is "We can't keep up with demand." Its a f ing book, more demand okay lemme just tell the printers we need 3 times as many from now on. Now we have to wait weeks behind the select few who can make it to england or who live there. As an irishman I tend to make a solid exception for the FW crew out of my usual brit hating ways but they're pushing the envelope here.
Models I can always, ALWAYS understand getting delayed, they're only human and they're bound by creative blocks and artistic vision, as a writer I know how it is when there's just that ONE thing wrong with what is otherwise a final product so I get that.
But a BOOK that's finished and ready to go out and they give us the line of "[W]ithin the next few weeks." Seriously, I know they're tired when they gotta truck their whole staff out to Gamesday but hire some part timers at least.
I know everyone(including myself) is excited about all these releases but I had to point this out; How many of you will want all the primarchs? now Angron is £50.00, Ok? Now take that as the guide price for the others. How many seriously can afford to shell out that amount? The figure comes in a collector's box; big whoop! The picture shows the box with all the figure bits, so what is the point of a presentation style box? I can't help but think someone somewhere has just said "They'll buy anything regardless of the price, so lets take them for as much as we can!" And I'm serious! Guys, when it boils down to it, its RESIN, not gold. And not very good resin judging by the regular moans from people who buy from Forgeworld...
Im definitely buying all the primarchs. Going to do a big dio with them all. And all the new FW stuff ive ever bought has been great quality. You only see the serious flaws in the really old kits that could do with a new mould.
Amaya wrote: Well it looks like Horus is both a melee beat stick and a hell of a force multiplier.
As should/will be all the Primarchs I imagine...
Hopefully not. That would be bland.
I fail to see (apart from Magnus and Alpharius/Omegon in particular) why the Primarchs would generally be anything else?
They are veritable gods of war, which means running around beating to death Greater Daemons and Avatars etc., whilst acting as the greatest generals of the Great Crusade, no?
No actually. Alan Bligh pointed out during the FW seminar that actually, some of the characters like Angron are not master tacticians in any way, but make up for their lack of finesse by sheer up the middle force and violence, and inspiring those around them on the battlefield to do the same.
He said the first thing they did was to sit down and write a set of special rules for each Primarch to make them different and fit their fluff. Then they put in an appropriate statline and THEN worked out points to even it all up, so whilst none of them are going to be wimps and none of them are going to be Ld3, we should still be seeing 18/19 unique Primarch rulesets, as well as all the chapter specific characters to bring the fluff to life.
So it's not just a case of "Generic Primarch statline - *insert Primarch name here*"
Alan told us a story from when they were playtesting the initial stats for the Primarchs, specifically Angron: Angron arrives on the board. Rips through a 10 man legion assault squad. Then he tears through a 20 man legion tactical squad. Then he knocked down a Bastion, and proceeded to chew through the rest of the army before finally being brought down by massed fire from several legion heavy weapon squads. This was Angron alone, so they've wound the rulesets in a bit since then!!
SickSix wrote: I am disappointed but not surprised by the blatant money grab on HH figures.
They know fanbois will buy regardless of the price. Blame your fellow gamers.
Those Scibor models look reasonable now.
His sculpting makes GW's 2nd edition look quality.
Also considering that GW is charging $30 for a warpsmith, or $50 for a dreadnought I'm not gonna mind paying $80 when Horus comes out. A Stormraven costs over $80, I don't see MUCH wrong with paying that for a miniature on a 60mm scenic diorama base that holds a removable playable 40mm one. Nothing GW or FW has done to date compares to Angron. Yes 80 is a hefty number to pay, but put it in comparison to GW's and FW's producs.
Now remember I am NO GW apologist, and I won't make excuses for them. Their pricing is almost criminal, HOWEVER the prices are not changing for the better so why don't we complain about things that are more likely to change.
Slipstream wrote: I know everyone(including myself) is excited about all these releases but I had to point this out; How many of you will want all the primarchs? now Angron is £50.00, Ok? Now take that as the guide price for the others. How many seriously can afford to shell out that amount? The figure comes in a collector's box; big whoop! The picture shows the box with all the figure bits, so what is the point of a presentation style box? I can't help but think someone somewhere has just said "They'll buy anything regardless of the price, so lets take them for as much as we can!" And I'm serious! Guys, when it boils down to it, its RESIN, not gold. And not very good resin judging by the regular moans from people who buy from Forgeworld...
well, since i wouldn't buy them all at one go... buy em when i can afford em... not that hard...
Describe "low intrinsic cost per unit" taking into account the man hours put into this kind of sculpt, including research time and pre-sculpt drawings etc. They HAD to get this right, especially as the first one to be released. Now put all of those man hours at a decent wage (you can bet that the FW design team are NOT on minimum wage, and nor should they be.
Ok. Not sure you're familiar with intrinsic cost. That is the cost of the raw materials. The actual scrap value if you will. This dude is resin, the intrinsic cost is pennies.
Just for giggles though. Lets say one of the designers spent a whole month sculpting this. That's approx 160 hours on one roughly Terminator sized model. Lets say they're pulling down 36k, I suspect that's on the high side, but it's generous and makes sums easier. That's 3000 per month, so with other incidental expenses, lets call the cost to sculpt 3.5k. Again for the sake of round figures, lets say the production costs per unit are £5.
Lets say that given the prevailing economic climate they don't sell all that many. Lets say that they only sell 100 units. Which is a dramatic underestimate I'm sure. At £50 a pop they still make a 20% return. On 100 units.
Now these numbers are all pure guestimation and I'm sure over simplified. But if I'm right in even the broadest sense they will make an absolute fortune. I would imagine they'll sell many hundreds, but the development cost will not increase.
Is "an absolute fortune" the profit margin at which an incredibly niche miniature company becomes an immoral money grabber?
Is there a $ profit per unit amount at which that occurs for you or do you play it by ear?
You're ignoring a lot of economic factors that are driving the price up.
1. Forgeworld is consistently high quality and will replace botched models often with extras. Their product is considered superior to GWs.
2. Demand for Horus Heresy and Primarch models is high, but 3. supply is low.
GW and FW's specific niche, Warhammer miniatures, is a seller's market for the most part. As such they can charge what they want. Especially in the case of novelty items.
Assuming that's a serious question. The usual rule with retail is to double your money before taxes etc.
Simply put, you can buy whole units, perhaps even smaller vehicles for what they're charging for Angron. You can buy any other super heavy Baneblade chassis for 50% less than the Fellblade. These represent no logical difference in development cost or raw materials. The book itself is arguably better quality, but is approaching double the cost of the IA series.
The only logical explanation is they've set higher prices because they can. That is understandable behaviour from a corporate viewpoint, but it isn't really moral. I don't mind paying money into my hobby, I don't mind the fact that by playing 40k is committing myself to shopping at the top of the market. I do mind feeling taken advantage of, and some of these items being so much more than comparable models makes me feel taken advantage of.
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Amaya wrote: You're ignoring a lot of economic factors that are driving the price up.
1. Forgeworld is consistently high quality and will replace botched models often with extras. Their product is considered superior to GWs.
2. Demand for Horus Heresy and Primarch models is high, but 3. supply is low.
GW and FW's specific niche, Warhammer miniatures, is a seller's market for the most part. As such they can charge what they want. Especially in the case of novelty items.
If demand is high but supply is low, that is essentially an artificial market condition created by FW. Once in production, casting extra minis for replacements is a small extra cost, and a tax write off. Also assuming an efficient casting method, replacements will be relatively infrequent.
azreal13 wrote: Simply put, you can buy whole units, perhaps even smaller vehicles for what they're charging for Angron. You can buy any other super heavy Baneblade chassis for 50% less than the Fellblade. These represent no logical difference in development cost or raw materials.
Actually they do. You aren't getting any large vehicles for the cost of a primarch, only conversion kits where most of the stuff is plastic. And you might be able to get whole units, but a high-quality character model on a complex display base is really just as expensive to design and produce as an average infantry squad (especially for primarchs where anything less than 200% effort on design will result in endless hate mail).
The Baneblade tanks cost 50% less because they're mostly plastic. The resin components are just the guns and some of the center hull, while the Fellblade is a mostly resin kit with maybe a small number of plastic parts. If you want to know what you get in full resin for the price of a FW Baneblade tank, look at the much smaller Macharius or Malcador tanks. Scaling up from those the Fellblade's cost makes perfect sense.
No mate, they do alt pattern Baneblades that are all resin. There are wheeled buggies (Taurus?) and similar, plus I don't think the retro Rhino is much different.
A Contemptor dread with two arms is less money. Albeit only just.
azreal13 wrote: No mate, they do alt pattern Baneblades that are all resin.
No they don't. They used to make a full-resin Baneblade before GW made it into a plastic kit (after ruining the design, IMO), but those have been out of production and unavailable for years. All of the "Baneblade" tanks they currently sell are conversion kits for the Shadowsword and are mostly plastic.
There are wheeled buggies (Taurus?) and similar, plus I don't think the retro Rhino is much different.
Yeah, but those are small models. The Tauros is full resin but it's a tiny vehicle, and the Rhino is only cheaper because it's a conversion kit for the plastic Rhino. The similar Predator tanks, which are closer to being full resin, cost as much as a primarch.
A Contemptor dread with two arms is less money. Albeit only just.
I was trying to elicit a rational discussion on why the Heresy stuff is more expensive than comparable existing kits.
What it was missing was a petulant, vacuous response that brought nothing to the table.
This thread is descending OT, and my battery is about shot. I might start one in Discussions if anyone wants to follow and continue an attempt at a level headed discussion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and my bad, the current Baneblade chassis are plastic hybrid, but there are still other superheavies for a lot less.
azreal13 wrote: I was trying to elicit a rational discussion on why the Heresy stuff is more expensive than comparable existing kits.
If you want to start a rational discussion you shouldn't start it with false statements about what various model kits consist of. If you'd taken a few seconds to look at the FW website you would have seen that there are no all-resin Baneblade tanks for sale and that comparing the all/mostly-resin Fellblade to the mostly-plastic Shadowsword/etc is misleading at best.
Also please don't be offended, that was aimed at Tyr Grimtooth and his 'hurr, don't buy it then' you jumped into thread middle.
Ok, apology accepted.
(This is why I quote everyone when I'm responding to them, so there's no ambiguity about it.)
azreal13 wrote: Oh, and my bad, the current Baneblade chassis are plastic hybrid, but there are still other superheavies for a lot less.
Those superheavies are also MUCH smaller. I have a Malcador sitting on my table right next to a Leman Russ, and the "superheavy" is barely wider or taller and only about 50% longer. The Macharius is bigger, but still considerably smaller than a Baneblade. Comparing the price of those tanks to the much larger Fellblade is just silly.
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azreal13 wrote: Wait a minute. I've got a Contemptor. It's huge. Are you saying Angron is bigger than that? If so I may have to revise my opinion.
The character model itself is already bigger (and more detailed) than the average 28mm character and it also comes with a large and complex diorama base. It's hard to say how exactly it compares without seeing them side by side but it looks like the primarch model + base is at least in the same general area of size and complexity as a Contemptor.
Here is why they charge $80, because they can. One part collectible and one part super high demand in moderate volume. While its a single mini they will never sell more than the number of World Eater players and the number of those that are collecting. They will have sold more baneblades while insisting on a comparable margin.
Thamor wrote: Is there anything anybody wants to know from the book?
One very, very important thing: are there rules for using this stuff in standard 40k (or Apocalypse, for the superheavies) or is it all limited to Heresy vs. Heresy. For example, can I take a jetbike squad in my codex marine army and play a normal 40k game?
You can use any of the rules against any other 40k army but it's still your opponents choice. The 40k rulebook still applies but you get some added extras with the new book.
So there's nothing incompatible with standard 40k? Good to know.
Do the new units (jetbikes, etc) come with the "a squadron of 1-3 jetbikes is a fast attack choice for a C:SM, DA or BT army" statement that would let you mix Heresy and standard 40k units?
Thamor wrote: Is there anything anybody wants to know from the book?
is there any more information on the mechanicus units?
Just one special character (Loyal), Thallax Cohorts(Many options) and Mecanicum Land raiders. I'm guessing they are waiting until they reach the battles on Mars before you'll see more of them.
You can use any of the rules against any other 40k army but it's still your opponents choice. The 40k rulebook still applies but you get some added extras with the new book.
So there's nothing incompatible with standard 40k? Good to know.
Do the new units (jetbikes, etc) come with the "a squadron of 1-3 jetbikes is a fast attack choice for a C:SM, DA or BT army" statement that would let you mix Heresy and standard 40k units?
I'm not 100% on the compatibility of everything but I remember hearing that you can use them like you would any other forgeworld models no associated with the HH.
And no it doesn't say anything like that next to it.
aka_mythos wrote: Here is why they charge $80, because they can. One part collectible and one part super high demand in moderate volume. While its a single mini they will never sell more than the number of World Eater players and the number of those that are collecting. They will have sold more baneblades while insisting on a comparable margin.
This is why the price is so high. You can argue S & D all day but you won't want more than one. They will be putting in a ton of effort into one model with an equally awesome base. They won't make money on volume sales on that basis alone. How many multiple copies of the same special character will you be buying? I will attempt to pick up each primarch for the sole reason its a freaking primarch!
Thamor wrote: Is there anything anybody wants to know from the book?
Standard legion organization - is there anything else of interest other than it being divided into chapters and battalions. What are battalions divided into?
How big are 30K games? Do they start with a basic hq and 2x troops size or what?
Thamor wrote: Is there anything anybody wants to know from the book?
Got any more shots of misc units or weapons from the book? Love the shots of moratorian and fulgirim.
More specifically does the book have the warhammer 40k seal of approval in the begining? Alot of tournaments are allowing for units and armies with that stamp including certain ones in adepticon. I'd love to simply use this army as a whole for my base force.
What different Legion rules do each legion have under the Legion Astartes rules
Aside from Horus can and how do Cataphract terminators count as troops?
Is it true Cataphracts have a 4+ invul but are S&P?
Is a Typhon siege tank a superheavy or normal vehical (already know it's apoc only)
Rules on the vulkite weapon?
Any sight of Relic Blades or other power weapons outside the usual sword/axe/fist/claw etc?
Are Legion basilisks/medusas BS 3 or 4?
For the heavy support squads, what is Hardened Armor?
Legion Destroyer squad, are rad missiles and phosphorex bombs more unique heavy weapons, assault etc?
Kroot posted two HQ choices, Legion Praetor and centurion, are either of them mandatory or can you just take a centurion?
Like a lot of other pre-heresy enthusiasts out there, who have been interested in this since the CCG and made armies years ago, I might well make a post on the main 40k page about making a pre-heresy army using non-FW options. Just for the younger/less disposable income wielding fans out there now who are feeling more than a little miffed that this awesome range (and with it, a boost in the number of PH players) has come along yet they are going to be excluded from it because they simply can't afford it. That is completely not true - it's possible to make good facsimiles of PH armour/weaponry and tanks for a fraction of the price that FW are asking.
That is a great idea. I have already run the numbers on a 10 man FW marine squad against a 10 man AI Steam Lords squad and the Anvil Industries boys come in at under half the cost. (i included shipping in my math)
Actually, an even better option is to combine some of those with bits from the numerous plastic bits websites out there. Especially now that many of the PH enthusiasts will be going straight for the official FW stuff, some of the more useful bits will also be easier to get hold of.
£17, and for that you immediately have 10 Pre-Heresy head/torsos. I've bought loads of these, and usually sell on the Red Scorpion shoulder pads for £6-7 on ebay.
Then, 10 lots of legs, arms, boltguns weapons and backpacks (chaos ones with the 'arms' removed and shortened) and you have a squad of preheresy marines for about the price of 2-3 models of the new sculpts.
ing book, more demand okay lemme just tell the printers we need 3 times as many from now on. Now we have to wait weeks behind the select few who can make it to england or who live there. As an irishman I tend to make a solid exception for the 
