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 Lord Magnus wrote:
Horus is balanced and not overpowered, and has realistic stats, I am VERY happy with this.

I agree with this.

Sure, everyone wants "their" Primarch to be Movie Marine and punch a Titan to death, but keeping them usable in games makes it more fun for all. It also gives me more hope/excitement for the other special characters that show up in each army.

Lots of good things seem to be coming down the road, I just hope that road isn't too long!

Horus looks excellent. I can't wait to see Magnus.

Amaya wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Well it looks like Horus is both a melee beat stick and a hell of a force multiplier.

As should/will be all the Primarchs I imagine...

Hopefully not. That would be bland.

I fail to see (apart from Magnus and Alpharius/Omegon in particular) why the Primarchs would generally be anything else?

They are veritable gods of war, which means running around beating to death Greater Daemons and Avatars etc., whilst acting as the greatest generals of the Great Crusade, no?

What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?

I'd buy it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?

I would bet that FW will have that diorama in addition to another with them avaiable individually.

The amount of possibilities to milk this cash cow are endless.

So many stories, so many chances to make little dioramas from those stories, and FW is even adding some additional Special Characters to flesh out and "even up" the Legions.

It's a great time to be a Space Marine player/collector and a bad time for wallets everywhere.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?

Given that it looks like they did that for Abaddon and Loken, I'd say it's likely.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the bet that Fulgrim and Ferrus come on a single oval base, for £100, re-enacting their fateful final fight?

Given that it looks like they did that for Abaddon and Loken, I'd say it's likely.

I gues you are right. But hopefully one is able to put the models on a single base as well (see Angron).

And the Abaddon/Loken diorama is work in progress, isn't it? Because the Loken model was nothing special, just a normal Space Marine taking the place where Loken is supposed to stand ...

As long as Ferrus comes with some kind of detachable head option?

Well have to say a pretty awesome range of models so far. Interesting seeing people saying that these are 'luxury of luxury' sculpts though (to give one example) - a short look at a website that deals with the miniature wargaming hobby, as opposed to solely GW miniatures, would quickly dispel that notion. They are bloody nice though, and given that FW are the only people making the 'official' version, a lot of the fans (many of whom have waited for years for this release) will no doubt hand over the money even if they get that old guilty 'I probably should have spent that on something else, like new tyres for my car, but sod it' feeling.

Like a lot of other pre-heresy enthusiasts out there, who have been interested in this since the CCG and made armies years ago, I might well make a post on the main 40k page about making a pre-heresy army using non-FW options. Just for the younger/less disposable income wielding fans out there now who are feeling more than a little miffed that this awesome range (and with it, a boost in the number of PH players) has come along yet they are going to be excluded from it because they simply can't afford it. That is completely not true - it's possible to make good facsimiles of PH armour/weaponry and tanks for a fraction of the price that FW are asking.

Video re Angron model now up on today WD blog


Automatically Appended Next Post:
don't know how to do video links so -
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4300037

 Pacific wrote:
As long as Ferrus comes with some kind of detachable head option?

Well have to say a pretty awesome range of models so far. Interesting seeing people saying that these are 'luxury of luxury' sculpts though (to give one example) - a short look at a website that deals with the miniature wargaming hobby, as opposed to solely GW miniatures, would quickly dispel that notion. They are bloody nice though, and given that FW are the only people making the 'official' version, a lot of the fans (many of whom have waited for years for this release) will no doubt hand over the money even if they get that old guilty 'I probably should have spent that on something else, like new tyres for my car, but sod it' feeling.

Like a lot of other pre-heresy enthusiasts out there, who have been interested in this since the CCG and made armies years ago, I might well make a post on the main 40k page about making a pre-heresy army using non-FW options. Just for the younger/less disposable income wielding fans out there now who are feeling more than a little miffed that this awesome range (and with it, a boost in the number of PH players) has come along yet they are going to be excluded from it because they simply can't afford it. That is completely not true - it's possible to make good facsimiles of PH armour/weaponry and tanks for a fraction of the price that FW are asking.

That is a great idea. I have already run the numbers on a 10 man FW marine squad against a 10 man AI Steam Lords squad and the Anvil Industries boys come in at under half the cost. (i included shipping in my math)

They didn't release a Horus Model yet have his stats? Oh well, I guess we're back to converting Primarchs....

The book isn't even out for general release yet...

Chill. Horus will be coming soon in all likelihood.

I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks

Guess I have to keep hoping otherwise I owe someone a coke.

btw, horus is terrifying, vets and termies as troops, CHOOSING what turn he comes in not scattering when he does, +1 LD to all sons of horus. stat profile that would make mephiston cry and enough special rules and wargear that make him truly warmaster.

Angron is only 80% of horus' points but still nasty, anti tank, anti infantry, can fight multiple challenges, only has a 3+/4+ though, makes his world eaters in 12" away fearless and gets +1 attack for every unit/independant character he finishes off.

Horus makes me think about doing Sons of Horus pre Davin or if I can find transfers (or a transfer image template) Luna Wolves.

 Harriticus wrote:
They didn't release a Horus Model yet have his stats? Oh well, I guess we're back to converting Primarchs....

I'm sure there are lots of things in the book that they have not yet revealed models for, Relax, Horus will come.

 carabine wrote:
I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks

on here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4300037&_requestid=304826

it says "For those of you that weren't at Games Day, both Angron and Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal will be available to pre-order from the Forge World website within the next few weeks"

 Regnak wrote:

 carabine wrote:
I was hoping for a FW newsletter today saying now that GD was over the book would be out for general release pre order shipping to start in like 2-3 weeks

on here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4300037&_requestid=304826

it says "For those of you that weren't at Games Day, both Angron and Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal will be available to pre-order from the Forge World website within the next few weeks"

WEEKS? Ugh, okay I love FW's customer service and talent but for christssake get some business reps in there. First their standard line as to why they won't sell their books through local retailers is "We can't keep up with demand." Its a f ing book, more demand okay lemme just tell the printers we need 3 times as many from now on. Now we have to wait weeks behind the select few who can make it to england or who live there. As an irishman I tend to make a solid exception for the FW crew out of my usual brit hating ways but they're pushing the envelope here.

Models I can always, ALWAYS understand getting delayed, they're only human and they're bound by creative blocks and artistic vision, as a writer I know how it is when there's just that ONE thing wrong with what is otherwise a final product so I get that.

But a BOOK that's finished and ready to go out and they give us the line of "[W]ithin the next few weeks." Seriously, I know they're tired when they gotta truck their whole staff out to Gamesday but hire some part timers at least.

Anyone seen (or am I missing) point cost on Horus or Angron?

 Lobukia wrote:
Anyone seen (or am I missing) point cost on Horus or Angron?

500 and 400 respectively

I know everyone(including myself) is excited about all these releases but I had to point this out; How many of you will want all the primarchs? now Angron is £50.00, Ok? Now take that as the guide price for the others. How many seriously can afford to shell out that amount? The figure comes in a collector's box; big whoop! The picture shows the box with all the figure bits, so what is the point of a presentation style box? I can't help but think someone somewhere has just said "They'll buy anything regardless of the price, so lets take them for as much as we can!" And I'm serious! Guys, when it boils down to it, its RESIN, not gold. And not very good resin judging by the regular moans from people who buy from Forgeworld...

Im definitely buying all the primarchs. Going to do a big dio with them all. And all the new FW stuff ive ever bought has been great quality. You only see the serious flaws in the really old kits that could do with a new mould.

I am disappointed but not surprised by the blatant money grab on HH figures.

They know fanbois will buy regardless of the price. Blame your fellow gamers.

Those Scibor models look reasonable now.

 Just Dave wrote:

Amaya wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Well it looks like Horus is both a melee beat stick and a hell of a force multiplier.

As should/will be all the Primarchs I imagine...

Hopefully not. That would be bland.

I fail to see (apart from Magnus and Alpharius/Omegon in particular) why the Primarchs would generally be anything else?

They are veritable gods of war, which means running around beating to death Greater Daemons and Avatars etc., whilst acting as the greatest generals of the Great Crusade, no?

No actually. Alan Bligh pointed out during the FW seminar that actually, some of the characters like Angron are not master tacticians in any way, but make up for their lack of finesse by sheer up the middle force and violence, and inspiring those around them on the battlefield to do the same.

He said the first thing they did was to sit down and write a set of special rules for each Primarch to make them different and fit their fluff. Then they put in an appropriate statline and THEN worked out points to even it all up, so whilst none of them are going to be wimps and none of them are going to be Ld3, we should still be seeing 18/19 unique Primarch rulesets, as well as all the chapter specific characters to bring the fluff to life.

So it's not just a case of "Generic Primarch statline - *insert Primarch name here*"

Alan told us a story from when they were playtesting the initial stats for the Primarchs, specifically Angron: Angron arrives on the board. Rips through a 10 man legion assault squad. Then he tears through a 20 man legion tactical squad. Then he knocked down a Bastion, and proceeded to chew through the rest of the army before finally being brought down by massed fire from several legion heavy weapon squads. This was Angron alone, so they've wound the rulesets in a bit since then!!

 SickSix wrote:
I am disappointed but not surprised by the blatant money grab on HH figures.

They know fanbois will buy regardless of the price. Blame your fellow gamers.

Those Scibor models look reasonable now.

His sculpting makes GW's 2nd edition look quality.

Also considering that GW is charging $30 for a warpsmith, or $50 for a dreadnought I'm not gonna mind paying $80 when Horus comes out. A Stormraven costs over $80, I don't see MUCH wrong with paying that for a miniature on a 60mm scenic diorama base that holds a removable playable 40mm one. Nothing GW or FW has done to date compares to Angron. Yes 80 is a hefty number to pay, but put it in comparison to GW's and FW's producs.

Now remember I am NO GW apologist, and I won't make excuses for them. Their pricing is almost criminal, HOWEVER the prices are not changing for the better so why don't we complain about things that are more likely to change.

I'm just waiting for FW to do a deoderant stick anti-grav tank kit.

Also... is it me or does this Mechanicum thallax torso kinda resemble the very first power armored miniature GW ever did?

Indeed it does.

Slipstream wrote:
I know everyone(including myself) is excited about all these releases but I had to point this out; How many of you will want all the primarchs? now Angron is £50.00, Ok? Now take that as the guide price for the others. How many seriously can afford to shell out that amount? The figure comes in a collector's box; big whoop! The picture shows the box with all the figure bits, so what is the point of a presentation style box? I can't help but think someone somewhere has just said "They'll buy anything regardless of the price, so lets take them for as much as we can!" And I'm serious! Guys, when it boils down to it, its RESIN, not gold. And not very good resin judging by the regular moans from people who buy from Forgeworld...

well, since i wouldn't buy them all at one go... buy em when i can afford em... not that hard...

Did I miss an Abbaddon/Loken diorama or am I reading that wrong?

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Did I miss an Abbaddon/Loken diorama or am I reading that wrong?

WiP pics in the GD'12 thread.

Nuclear Mekanik wrote:

Describe "low intrinsic cost per unit" taking into account the man hours put into this kind of sculpt, including research time and pre-sculpt drawings etc. They HAD to get this right, especially as the first one to be released. Now put all of those man hours at a decent wage (you can bet that the FW design team are NOT on minimum wage, and nor should they be.

Ok. Not sure you're familiar with intrinsic cost. That is the cost of the raw materials. The actual scrap value if you will. This dude is resin, the intrinsic cost is pennies.

Just for giggles though. Lets say one of the designers spent a whole month sculpting this. That's approx 160 hours on one roughly Terminator sized model. Lets say they're pulling down 36k, I suspect that's on the high side, but it's generous and makes sums easier. That's 3000 per month, so with other incidental expenses, lets call the cost to sculpt 3.5k. Again for the sake of round figures, lets say the production costs per unit are £5.

Lets say that given the prevailing economic climate they don't sell all that many. Lets say that they only sell 100 units. Which is a dramatic underestimate I'm sure. At £50 a pop they still make a 20% return. On 100 units.

Now these numbers are all pure guestimation and I'm sure over simplified. But if I'm right in even the broadest sense they will make an absolute fortune. I would imagine they'll sell many hundreds, but the development cost will not increase.