Azazelx wrote: Don't lecture me on how to read fething English, Ellinas filos mou.
Perhaps you need some lessons on how ellipses and hyphens are often used? Especially in light of your comment about commas.
Furthermore, the other section after the hyphen changes nothing of the message to me. I haven't seen an update of any kind from Mike in what seems like it must be close to a year now.
My disappointment in SW goes well beyond the sub=par products that were shipped, and the hyperbolic lies about it's quality as part of the campaign, but to the way that Mike personally chose to deal with pretty much everything on his end as well. Obviously CMON and "China" had a significant hand in the poor quality as well, but Mike seemed to fail in every aspect as well.
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I understand your frustration when I said a trainwreak I meant in its entirety, beyond terrain which surprisingly I had no issue with misglued turrets I have nothing good to say about it, I really wonder if this is salvageable and if his reputation is recoverable.
I like my stuff but I got most of my money back on just the bonus models and KS Exclusives so I think for 4 boxes and a slew of Exclusives I'm only out like $80 which is great for the number of bases and models I wound up with. And the model quality (outside of Hexen & River) is quite good. And it's no more difficult to work with than many other companies products in the same material.
That said I can see people's anger and frustration. My only real beef is with the size of the THI suits. That did kinda piss me off....
TBH, the best way to run a KS is to be on forums like this one, chatting to backers wherever backers are chatting.
That tends to generate a little goodwill that makes people be a little more accepting of any delays or issues (see Dreamforge and Secret Weapon for good examples of this).
baritowned wrote: So just curious, KS drama aside, how fun/interesting is the game? I watched the video on the kickstarter and it seemed kind of... simple to say the least...
I mean, $35 on amazon down from $90 is a damn good deal, but if it's so simple, I don't know if I should even bother
So... Can anyone convince me to buy this?
If you patch together the PDFs fixing the game, which I really wish SMV would incorporate into their main rulebook as a single document, the game is enjoyable- the problem is, along with the KS drama, its first rule set was patchy and its second was rushed in response to complaints about the first. I feel like the game is already around edition 2.5, but if you can get past that it's a sound skirmish game.
If you patch together the PDFs fixing the game, which I really wish SMV would incorporate into their main rulebook as a single document, the game is enjoyable- the problem is, along with the KS drama, its first rule set was patchy and its second was rushed in response to complaints about the first. I feel like the game is already around edition 2.5, but if you can get past that it's a sound skirmish game.
I'm going to go a little further and say that as it stands it is indeed a good game. Speaking only as a casual gamer, I've enjoyed myself every time I've painted the miniatures or played the game, though I do think the patchwork rules set is a deterrent to me playing more often. The delays and lack of updates have just made it even harder to build up enough enthusiasm about it to wade through that problem though.
If you patch together the PDFs fixing the game, which I really wish SMV would incorporate into their main rulebook as a single document, the game is enjoyable- the problem is, along with the KS drama, its first rule set was patchy and its second was rushed in response to complaints about the first. I feel like the game is already around edition 2.5, but if you can get past that it's a sound skirmish game.
Do you know offhand what the major problems were with the original rules? Like a top 5/10 bullet points of brokeness?
- They were laid out extremely poorly, and contained several areas of ambiguity.
- They were far too fiddly for the amount of enjoyment reaped.
- There were certain game-breaking rules (like Nano clouds being used to insta-kill Vanguard characters)
But I'd certainly appreciate more detail - we don't often hear about the why!
The scale issues were as simple as 1) McVey not securing sculpting contracts far enough in advance with the original/preferred sculptors, leading to a different look/style for the Kickstarter exclusive miniatures, and 2) a bad choice in material leading to a high degreee of shrinkage. As in, you could compare resin and plastic versions side by side and the latter was substantially smaller.
This was especially bad because the exclusive stuff was either people in (now much less impressive) big powered suits, or relatively unarmored and looking a bit twiggy. I still think most of them were good models, but people were expecting top-end stuff (given the existing Sedition Wars line at the time) and didn't feel they got anything like it.
I just want to say that Kev White's "walking guy with gun" pose was a lot more exciting 4 years ago than it was by the time we got 20 something dudes in that pose. Also, the "Hawkeye Initiative" poses for the women did not help the game to age well.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Do you know offhand what the major problems were with the original rules? Like a top 5/10 bullet points of brokeness?
It's been a while, but...
-There were 40k-caliber ambiguities without standardized game terms (base to base and adjacent were used interchangeably), the board was never really defined
-Some of the scenarios were highly skewed
-Spamming was usually the best way of playing
"2nd" edition:
-the rush to fix made the ambiguities just as bad
-the scenarios weren't changed to compensate for changed rules, making some of them impossible to win
-spamming wasn't solved
-the rules seemed way overcompensated in the other direction, meaning it just changed from one set of pieces being overpowered to another being overpowered
"2.5" edition:
-ambiguities were sorted out. Still feel like the board isn't in great shape but at least it has a real definition
-the scenarios were properly updated, and then further rebalanced for at least decent chances of either side winning
-there are recommended armies for scenarios, which is loads more fun than spamming, and generally makes for an exciting game.
I might be biased (I was very active testing while what I've been calling 2.5 was being developed) but I feel like the game is fun and balanced and well-written, and was mostly just hurt by the campaign's failings. My only gripes now are the material (I don't like restic, and think they should have gone with lower quantities of nicer models, since the game breaks down at large battles anyway) and that they haven't consolidated the updates into one book.
scarletsquig wrote: I'm super-happy with my SW stuff, but then I'm using it for Deadzone, not SW.
Heh. Must be the Daily Double, because like Sedition Wars I ain't ever buyin' a thing from Mantic after their KS either. If you can't even get the base contents of your game ready by the time you ship, you shouldn't be in the Kickstarting business, especially when you intend to start a new KS when people from your last few KS's still haven't got their stuff.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Do you know offhand what the major problems were with the original rules? Like a top 5/10 bullet points of brokeness?
It's been a while, but...
-There were 40k-caliber ambiguities without standardized game terms (base to base and adjacent were used interchangeably), the board was never really defined
-Some of the scenarios were highly skewed
-Spamming was usually the best way of playing
"2nd" edition:
-the rush to fix made the ambiguities just as bad
-the scenarios weren't changed to compensate for changed rules, making some of them impossible to win
-spamming wasn't solved
-the rules seemed way overcompensated in the other direction, meaning it just changed from one set of pieces being overpowered to another being overpowered
"2.5" edition:
-ambiguities were sorted out. Still feel like the board isn't in great shape but at least it has a real definition
-the scenarios were properly updated, and then further rebalanced for at least decent chances of either side winning
-there are recommended armies for scenarios, which is loads more fun than spamming, and generally makes for an exciting game.
I might be biased (I was very active testing while what I've been calling 2.5 was being developed) but I feel like the game is fun and balanced and well-written, and was mostly just hurt by the campaign's failings. My only gripes now are the material (I don't like restic, and think they should have gone with lower quantities of nicer models, since the game breaks down at large battles anyway) and that they haven't consolidated the updates into one book.
gunslingerpro wrote: Happy with my stuff. Would be interested in getting my hands on the '2.5' rules though, Spiraling.
Yah, me too. Except a step missed above, between 2.0 and 2.5 is Print Book and Update PDF for the Last Time. What this means is 2.5 exists only as a collection of FAQ and Errata to both cards and the rule book, not making it very easy to have a copy of 2.5. The decision to not update at least the PDF and label it with some type of versioning and date is asinine.
H.B.M.C. wrote: especially when you intend to start a new KS when people from your last few KS's still haven't got their stuff.
I also believe that game designers, artists, graphic designers, and sculptors should all do nothing while a factory is in production or a warehouse is packaging.
H.B.M.C. wrote: especially when you intend to start a new KS when people from your last few KS's still haven't got their stuff.
I also believe that game designers, artists, graphic designers, and sculptors should all do nothing while a factory is in production or a warehouse is packaging.
That is not what he said. Despite what certain companies seem to believe, it is possible to do development work before you put things up for pre-order.
Yah, me too. Except a step missed above, between 2.0 and 2.5 is Print Book and Update PDF for the Last Time. What this means is 2.5 exists only as a collection of FAQ and Errata to both cards and the rule book, not making it very easy to have a copy of 2.5. The decision to not update at least the PDF and label it with some type of versioning and date is asinine.
I know the design guy(s?) was/were busy with the Firebrand beta release for Ravage/the PDF for a while, don't know what's up currently. I wouldn't call it dumb, so much as poorly paced, since everyone knows it should happen...
I'll stick with dumb/asinine. Either Mike or one of the other guys stated out right they were not going to update the PDF. That is not a pacing issue, that is a deliberate decision which makes the game less accessible. Asinine fits that decision well.
CptJake wrote: I'll stick with dumb/asinine. Either Mike or one of the other guys stated out right they were not going to update the PDF. That is not a pacing issue, that is a deliberate decision which makes the game less accessible. Asinine fits that decision well.
Wait, what? They have seriously decided that they are not going to make the changes in their rules accessible?
That's... That goes beyond stupid and starts to push into the realm of the pathological. Short of spite, what could possibly motivate a company to make such a decision?
CptJake wrote: I'll stick with dumb/asinine. Either Mike or one of the other guys stated out right they were not going to update the PDF. That is not a pacing issue, that is a deliberate decision which makes the game less accessible. Asinine fits that decision well.
Wait, what? They have seriously decided that they are not going to make the changes in their rules accessible?
That's... That goes beyond stupid and starts to push into the realm of the pathological. Short of spite, what could possibly motivate a company to make such a decision?
They provide a FAQ and errata. Those are 'living documents' and players can always grab the most recent version. They seem to feel that is good enough. Perhaps my wording was poor. The changes are accessible via the FAQ and errata, just less accessible than a single 'changes included and up to date' rule book.
And by nature, I am a lazy SOB. I hate having to consolidate crap from different sources and like having it done for me. So it may be much more of an issue for folks like me and much less of an issue for others.
CptJake wrote: I'll stick with dumb/asinine. Either Mike or one of the other guys stated out right they were not going to update the PDF. That is not a pacing issue, that is a deliberate decision which makes the game less accessible. Asinine fits that decision well.
Wait, what? They have seriously decided that they are not going to make the changes in their rules accessible?
That's... That goes beyond stupid and starts to push into the realm of the pathological. Short of spite, what could possibly motivate a company to make such a decision?
As far as I've ever heard, they haven't made that decision, and the FAQ and changes for "2.5" quickly got large enough that it became obvious to everyone (communicating on the testing forum including staff) that the rulebook would need to be updated, and that the separate PDFs were a stop-gap until that could happen so that the changes could be released as they were finished. I believe the only question was if the revised rulebook w/ changes incorporated would only be released as a PDF or if a print option were viable.
I may not have all the information, but I'd like CptJake to cite where that was said, because I consider myself pretty knowledgable regarding SMV and am very surprised to hear that since I've never heard anything like it.
yeah,
They probably don't want to commit to updating/print again purely because it will be the third version of the rulebook in just over a year?
It was foolish to print the second edition with no playtesting.. dickheads.
CptJake wrote: I'll stick with dumb/asinine. Either Mike or one of the other guys stated out right they were not going to update the PDF. That is not a pacing issue, that is a deliberate decision which makes the game less accessible. Asinine fits that decision well.
Wait, what? They have seriously decided that they are not going to make the changes in their rules accessible?
That's... That goes beyond stupid and starts to push into the realm of the pathological. Short of spite, what could possibly motivate a company to make such a decision?
As far as I've ever heard, they haven't made that decision, and the FAQ and changes for "2.5" quickly got large enough that it became obvious to everyone (communicating on the testing forum including staff) that the rulebook would need to be updated, and that the separate PDFs were a stop-gap until that could happen so that the changes could be released as they were finished. I believe the only question was if the revised rulebook w/ changes incorporated would only be released as a PDF or if a print option were viable.
I may not have all the information, but I'd like CptJake to cite where that was said, because I consider myself pretty knowledgable regarding SMV and am very surprised to hear that since I've never heard anything like it.
edit: clarity
Well, lets see:
SpiralingCadaver wrote: The plan, as far as I understand it, is there's going to be a few FAQ/errata updates (i.e. the immediately upcoming document doesn't contain every change being discussed), but once they're done the rules are supposed to be stable after that point, and there's been no talk about any serious overhaul past 1.5. So, yes, 1.5 + collective errata is going to be the official endpoint for BfA.
(note who said that...)
DaveC wrote: Everything you need to play is on the sedition wars website in the link I posted above that's the current official rules and cards - they will not be changing again other then some amendments by way of the Errata. The FAQ explains any unclear parts.
All KS backers get the new printed cards in wave 2. There is no word yet on when or even if they will be available for those who bought retail.
Studio McVey wrote: Just to clear up a few of the questions from this thread (they have been answered by other people involved, but I thought I'd make it "official"). The 1.5 version of the rules is the rules for Battle for Alabaster. So with that and the added errata, that is the full version of the rules, with no plan for a further overhaul. We are very pleased with they way the rules are working now, and they really give us something to build on.
There will be some additions to the errata in the near future, but they will be reasonably minor. This current FAQ is fairly comprehensive and will be the last for a while - there will be more to come, but not for a little while.
Umm, none of those state that there is no intention to update a collected PDF. Those were all, I believe, in response to the general upset at how dramatic the 1.5 rules were when everyone was expecting a fine-tuning rather than an overhaul.
The version that was officially called 1.5 is what I've generally referred to as 2 since the changes were so dramatic. I've been calling the current version 2.5 but believe it's still officially considered 1.5.
And I'm not allowed to quote anything from the testing forums, sorry.
Not to cut to the quick or anything, but so let me put it this way: If I bought a retail copy of Sedition Wars, I would get the most current rules (including relevant errata and scenarios) how, exactly?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Umm, none of those state that there is no intention to update a collected PDF. Those were all, I believe, in response to the general upset at how dramatic the 1.5 rules were when everyone was expecting a fine-tuning rather than an overhaul.
The version that was officially called 1.5 is what I've generally referred to as 2 since the changes were so dramatic. I've been calling the current version 2.5 but believe it's still officially considered 1.5.
And I'm not allowed to quote anything from the testing forums, sorry.
Ummm.
So, yes, 1.5 + collective errata is going to be the official endpoint for BfA.
they will not be changing again other then some amendments by way of the Errata
The 1.5 version of the rules is the rules for Battle for Alabaster. So with that and the added errata, that is the full version of the rules, with no plan for a further overhaul.
All sound that way to me. You asked me to cite, and I did. Put up or shut up, cite me a source stating they will update the PDF of the rules. I got you, Dave and Mike himself saying they remain as they are.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: Not to cut to the quick or anything, but so let me put it this way: If I bought a retail copy of Sedition Wars, I would get the most current rules (including relevant errata and scenarios) how, exactly?
So, yes, 1.5 + collective errata is going to be the official endpoint for BfA.
they will not be changing again other then some amendments by way of the Errata
The 1.5 version of the rules is the rules for Battle for Alabaster. So with that and the added errata, that is the full version of the rules, with no plan for a further overhaul.
All sound that way to me. You asked me to cite, and I did.
That's how you're interpreting it. I believe you're mistaken, regardless.
Put up or shut up, cite me a source stating they will update the PDF of the rules. I got you, Dave and Mike himself saying they remain as they are.
I'm not going to violate an NDA over an internet challenge, sorry. If I get any info that is explicitly official/available as public knowledge, I'd be happy to share, but those tend to be posted by SMV, well, publicly.
I understand your frustration when I said a trainwreak I meant in its entirety, beyond terrain which surprisingly I had no issue with misglued turrets I have nothing good to say about it, I really wonder if this is salvageable and if his reputation is recoverable.
The diaspora split off in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Think of it as a regional dialect, with a few differences grammatically and with many words being localised.
I grew up in awe and doing my best to try and emulate what McVey was capable of, with the greatest of respect for him (up until Lemartes, at least - but that model should never have been released). I backed SW for quote a lot of money with the same respect and reverence in mind, but since the money was taken, it's been nothing but disappointment and poor excuses from him, and so his reputation with me is now mud.
scarletsquig wrote: TBH, the best way to run a KS is to be on forums like this one, chatting to backers wherever backers are chatting.
That tends to generate a little goodwill that makes people be a little more accepting of any delays or issues (see Dreamforge and Secret Weapon for good examples of this).
You're so right - and Mantic did start to have this happen when James briefly spent some time here, though with him subsequently disappearing and now about to head off to Lenton, I guess Mantic managed to Almost tmthat aspect as well. Even the Mierce guy (who I suspect is Rob Lane) posts here regularly. (I really wish those guys would credit the people who got ripped off by the fall of Maelstrom with MM products to make things good - I'm not one of them, BTW since I got my money back thanks to PayPal - so not a "I want freebies" angle at all).
They provide a FAQ and errata. Those are 'living documents' and players can always grab the most recent version. They seem to feel that is good enough. Perhaps my wording was poor. The changes are accessible via the FAQ and errata, just less accessible than a single 'changes included and up to date' rule book.
And by nature, I am a lazy SOB. I hate having to consolidate crap from different sources and like having it done for me. So it may be much more of an issue for folks like me and much less of an issue for others.
You're right, of course. To be blunt, Sedition Wars is not 40k or WarmaHordes with a huge following and market penetration. If they make it hard to play, or even get the rules all together, people aren't going to go through all of the extra work in order to do so. They'll just play something else.
Buzzsaw wrote: Not to cut to the quick or anything, but so let me put it this way: If I bought a retail copy of Sedition Wars, I would get the most current rules (including relevant errata and scenarios) how, exactly?
Downloading all the documents...
Yes, thanks.
Let's tackle this a different way: suppose someone picked up the retail box. How would they know that the rules were not up-to-date? If they did know that, where would they go to get "all the documents"? Specifically, what website?
This is not directed at you (CptJake), but rather to illustrate how silly the whole situation is.
So, yes, 1.5 + collective errata is going to be the official endpoint for BfA.
they will not be changing again other then some amendments by way of the Errata
The 1.5 version of the rules is the rules for Battle for Alabaster. So with that and the added errata, that is the full version of the rules, with no plan for a further overhaul.
All sound that way to me. You asked me to cite, and I did.
That's how you're interpreting it. I believe you're mistaken, regardless.
Put up or shut up, cite me a source stating they will update the PDF of the rules. I got you, Dave and Mike himself saying they remain as they are.
I'm not going to violate an NDA over an internet challenge, sorry. If I get any info that is explicitly official/available as public knowledge, I'd be happy to share, but those tend to be posted by SMV, well, publicly.
And there it is. I cited sources clearly stating something, and since it comes from Mike, tend to believe it. As do a bunch of other folks, 'cause well, that is what we were told.
If you have other info, great. Your own posts on the Studio McVey forum support my opinion. Again, put up or shut up. Get Mike to let the world know he is going to update the rulebook. It is fething stupid to hide that knowledge, if indeed it is the plan. Of course, since Mike stated it is not the plan, I'm going with that info until I get something more solid than you contradicting it.
Buzzsaw, I don't think finding them is very silly, it's at the pretty intuitive URL http://www.seditionwars.com/ (which is on the first page of the rulebook) and look under the heading "rules." It's also on the SMV forum
I do think they needed better notation in their rulebook for which version you're getting. The easiest way to tell is if the rules on the back refer to things as attack or move abilities, since that specification was added in the second version. If there's notation in the rulebook, it's not obvious.
(edit: clarity)
CptJake, I'm not a representative of SMV, just a fan and playtester, have tried to be civil, and have found such attempts fruitless. I'm not going to argue with you any more since apparently my options are break a legally binding contract or "shut up." Nor do I really feel like doing anything you request, since you've been acting like a jerk. I'd rather just click the ignore button and have one more bit of negativity out of my day.
Buzzsaw wrote: Not to cut to the quick or anything, but so let me put it this way: If I bought a retail copy of Sedition Wars, I would get the most current rules (including relevant errata and scenarios) how, exactly?
Downloading all the documents...
Yes, thanks.
Let's tackle this a different way: suppose someone picked up the retail box. How would they know that the rules were not up-to-date? If they did know that, where would they go to get "all the documents"? Specifically, what website?
This is not directed at you (CptJake), but rather to illustrate how silly the whole situation is.
I concur. I guess they could run into Spiraling Cadaver, give him the Super Secret Studio McVey Handshake and be let in on the Secret Of The Updated Rules.
In a less smart assed answer, a person buying the game blind has no way of knowing. The printed rule books don't even have a version number on them. Unless they do Internet searches (which I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume a lot of folks do now a days) they won't know to get the updates.
RiTides wrote: I don't generally look online for updates to board game rules... skirmish game rules Maybe, but that's probably what this should have been all along.
I get that, but I suspect a board gamer buying this may end up online trying to find instructions for assembling the figures.
I understand your frustration when I said a trainwreak I meant in its entirety, beyond terrain which surprisingly I had no issue with misglued turrets I have nothing good to say about it, I really wonder if this is salvageable and if his reputation is recoverable.
The diaspora split off in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Think of it as a regional dialect, with a few differences grammatically and with many words being localised.
I grew up in awe and doing my best to try and emulate what McVey was capable of, with the greatest of respect for him (up until Lemartes, at least - but that model should never have been released). I backed SW for quote a lot of money with the same respect and reverence in mind, but since the money was taken, it's been nothing but disappointment and poor excuses from him, and so his reputation with me is now mud.
Its really surprising how much I am in the same boat, heavily invested in it with his work up to that point in mind and vastly disappointed by almost all of the results if I am allowed it would have been better if this project never happened.
Even the Mierce guy (who I suspect is Rob Lane) posts here regularly. (I really wish those guys would credit the people who got ripped off by the fall of Maelstrom with MM products to make things good - I'm not one of them, BTW since I got my money back thanks to PayPal - so not a "I want freebies" angle at all).
a bit off topic for here, but
Folk who had ordered any of the Banelegions stuff from Maelstrom did get their orders fulfilled by Mierce even though they had no legal obligation to do so which is something (and infact why I felt able to back their first KS)...... (and yes it would still suck if you'd ordered other stuff and didn't manage to get a refund from your CC or paypal)
Yeah, I know they filled Bane Legions stuff. But since both businesses are/were owned by the same guy (Maelstrom begat Mierce, after all) they still could/should have given the people who got ripped off Mierce credit. Especially after 3 months of "warehouse-moving-sale"-derived "please keep ordering" and "the order will be in on Friday" bs.
RiTides wrote: My terrain set from Miniature Market is in the mail . Was delayed just a bit previously as they moved premises last weekend, apparently.
It has a lot of nice stuff in it. If you'e not using it for Sedition Wars it has too many doors (in my opinion) but everything in it is good. I would have rather seen less doors and either a cheaper price, or more of the other stuff included. Optionally breaking out the doors into their own set and selling the Sci Fi items separately would have worked.
I know some folks had the gun things pre-glued poorly, but if your set avoids that you should be pretty happy with it. Between the fantastic bases and the terrain sets they did well.
Yeah, I got 2 of the terrain sets, and they were quite lovely, lots of good characterful scatter terrain in there. With a lot of great KS stuff out there, the doors could come in handy too.
There's no way I would ever buy any more SW product. I have everything from Biohazard and the clear Vanguard still sitting in their packages in the corner that i look at and sigh every once and a while. After first finding out how many hours it would need to clean the minin (even the base game ones), to never getting the quarantine campaign as promised, and then finally getting duped into buying the "fixed" 2.0 rules when they already needed errata/FAQ's by the time they freaking showed up on my door....no way. The rules issue was the last straw for sure.
I have seen miniatures games with rulebooks that are of higher caliber and composition being distributed for free online. I can get rules for Epic: Armageddon from a fansite that contain all the official GW errata changed internally and with FAQ's as footnotes on the bottom of each relevant page of rules, plus a dozen new, play-tested army lists as a free release by a group of fans, but a company can't do the same thing for rules I am paying them for? That's not right.
Sedition Wars was an absolute "once bitten twice shy" first kickstarter for me.
AegisGrimm wrote: I have seen miniatures games with rulebooks that are of higher caliber and composition being distributed for free online. I can get rules for Epic: Armageddon from a fansite that contain all the official GW errata changed internally and with FAQ's as footnotes on the bottom of each relevant page of rules, plus a dozen new, play-tested army lists as a free release by a group of fans, but a company can't do the same thing for rules I am paying them for? That's not right.
Not saying SW's rules couldn't be better, but...
-Epic had a large company backing it for years, and a large and devoted fanbase for even longer. Of course they have a ton of material now.
-If you're talking about freedom of material, SW's rules are available (in a poorly organazed fashion), and, with the exception of a period where GW was distributing some specialist games and supplementary rules, they've always charged for rules (preview or otherwise).
I don't think it's really an accurate comparison. If some other smallish company had (and there probably has been one) come out with a great, large, well-formatted, and free rulebook with a lot of variety, that'd be a better comparison. For instance, Infinity has a bunch of material for free, I know, but I don't know if they started that way or how easy it is to search, but that's the comparison I'd have made.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Buzzsaw, I don't think finding them is very silly, it's at the pretty intuitive URL http://www.seditionwars.com/ (which is on the first page of the rulebook) and look under the heading "rules." It's also on the SMV forum
I do think they needed better notation in their rulebook for which version you're getting. The easiest way to tell is if the rules on the back refer to things as attack or move abilities, since that specification was added in the second version. If there's notation in the rulebook, it's not obvious.
Yeah.... So I checked out the Sedition Wars page, and I'm inclined to stick with my "very silly" criticism. Is there a sticker or something on the retail boxes now that alerts people that the version 1 rules are out of date? I honestly don't know. When one goes onto the website, there is nothing that indicates 'hey, make sure you rules are up to date!', in fact, there doesn't appear to be anything that explicitly tells people that Sedition War boxes shipped with rules that are one or two generations behind the current. Then the "Rules" link is the seventh on the menu, right between 'assembly' and 'map editor'.
There is an obvious and natural resistance for a company to broadcast an admission of failure: it's like having a car part recalled for being faulty. The problem is that from McVey's point of view, it seems that they are inclined to think that it's better for the problem to just go unnoticed rather then be fixed.
Like you said, it's not immediately obvious in any real way how to know if your rules are up-to-date. That's on top of the fact that, as a general rule, I would presume that very few boardgame buyers will go to the internet after buying without additional prompting. The natural assumption, after all, is that a boardgame is a finished and self-contained product.
Boardgame buyers who play with a group of friends will have a decent game (with either box 1 or box 2) which requires a bit of house rules in the odd spot but nothing more than many games do
the original rules only fall apart when playing high stakes win or loose games with total strangers at a gaming store or similar
(or if you're saddled with real rules lawyer mates)
I do agree flashing the 2nd edition boxes in some way would have been preferable
AegisGrimm wrote: There's no way I would ever buy any more SW product. <snip> Sedition Wars was an absolute "once bitten twice shy" first kickstarter for me.
Buzzsaw, I don't feel like menu order after about the first 2 matters, but 100% agree that they should have put a 2nd edition sticker on, or something.
Orlando, mostly agreed re: fine if you don't play too competitively, except Nano, which was pretty useless in the first iteration; absolutely lethal in the second, and pretty balanced currently.
Actually, I was waiting to see how the Eisenkern Valkir's swords end up. You can tell I didn't even bother straightening the crappy standard sword. What the heck is it even supposed to be? A powered bread slicer? Electric, safety pumpkin carver?
The weapons and pose are the same as her un-suited version (plasma thingy IIRC, dachi swords, raised sword arm), hence the blade rather than bludgeon etc.
Fair enough. Regular Kara is one of the best in the line, gnosis just looks okay. I got a spare regular for cheap, and sticking the regular head on goes a long way, but something was lost between sketch and restic.
Is the game even available for retail purchase? The Studio McVey site lists it as out of stock, and the Warstore doesn't list it at all. Do any other U.S. distributors carry the base game box? (And as a side note, if I bought the game new, what version of the rules would be in the box?)
Guildsman wrote: Is the game even available for retail purchase? The Studio McVey site lists it as out of stock, and the Warstore doesn't list it at all. Do any other U.S. distributors carry the base game box? (And as a side note, if I bought the game new, what version of the rules would be in the box?)
Yes - in the UK, I was able to get a copy through Amazon (3rd party), and it looks like there are plenty of copies on Miniature Market in the US, for example:
If your copy is not heavily marked-down, then I'd expect that you'd get the newer edition - 2nd ed rulebook and cards, and miniatures packed in a pvc blister shell rather than loose in bags. On the other hand, I bought the Amazon copy mid-December last year (for the equivalent of ~$30 delivered) and that was still first edition!
If it helps, the 2nd edition rulebook is still not the latest rule set, the cards are not a very clear way of displaying the rules, and you can get a nicely-collated summary and cards for the actually-up-to-date-version of the whole shebang at:
as do miniature market and FRP games (they did discount very heavily for a while, but not any more suggesting to me this is the second printing, but ask to be sure)
If this thread has taught Guildsman anything, it's that he should not pay $90 for Sedition Wars. Doing so will only cause melancholy and lethargy.
Ya got that right. The question was more out of curiosity than anything else. Really disappointed with how this has all turned out, and really glad that I didn't jump in on the kickstarter. I don't care if the gameplay is revelatory; if the miniatures are poor quality, then count me out.
Got the terrain pack from Miniature Market, and the non-door pieces come in a clear plastic inner packaging conformed to each shape, so I don't think any of these would ever be pre-assembled like some of the KS rewards were. It's a heck of a lot of terrain for the price!
RiTides wrote: Got the terrain pack from Miniature Market, and the non-door pieces come in a clear plastic inner packaging conformed to each shape, so I don't think any of these would ever be pre-assembled like some of the KS rewards were. It's a heck of a lot of terrain for the price!
It is the sentry gun things, in the tray, that folks had the issue with. They were assembled in the factory.
If this thread has taught Guildsman anything, it's that he should not pay $90 for Sedition Wars. Doing so will only cause melancholy and lethargy.
Ya got that right. The question was more out of curiosity than anything else. Really disappointed with how this has all turned out, and really glad that I didn't jump in on the kickstarter. I don't care if the gameplay is revelatory; if the miniatures are poor quality, then count me out.
To be fair, the minis that come in the box are decent, though very restic-mould-liney. The issues with the boxed game figures are that they were in restic with lots of mould lines which are a bitch to clean off, and they promised us the Earth, - so many of us including myself - while not expecting LE-resin levels of quality - were nonetheless misled - which falls on both McVey and CMON. The Wave 2 figures on the other hand, were expensive, undersized (even to the wave 1 figures) and gak - a major failing on both CMON and McVey. The rules are rough and far from revelatory.
Honestly, if you can pick up the boxed game for $30-40 and have a use for Halo-suited space soldiers and techno-zombies and good quality plastic sci-fi bases, then it's not a bad deal. Also comes with floor tiles and such that can be useful for various gamingnesss.
I bought one of these boxes before Christmas for £20ppd off eBay, and finally got around to assembling it at the weekend.
I filed the mould lines down with some jewellers files I have, and intitally wasn't too happy with the results.. I found though, that running my finger nail along the line afterwards made a surprising difference, and I was happy with the results afterwards. The material was a bit harder than the restic in Deadzone, but I didn't find it particularly soul destroying, and the bigger Strain models went together pretty well, especially compared to anything metal that size. Only annoying part was that I didn't have a drill handy to glue the "flying" stand for the tank droid thing.
I might as well carry on this thread - love it or loath it there's plenty more to come for Sedition Wars previews start today they will be onsale at Salute and then on the store after - resin minis - first up is the Gnosis suit troops and character Killian Brace.
As I mentioned in the last news posted here, we have Salute next weekend so we wanted to give you a sneak peek at some of the new miniatures we will be previewing there. We’ve been pretty quiet on the new release front for the last few months, but that doesn’t mean we haven’t been busy – quite the contrary. In the last year, we have designed and sculpted more miniatures than in the rest of the time we have been running Studio McVey combined. The main focus of our work has been Sedition Wars, and over the next week we are going to be showing some of the miniatures you will be seeing in the next game set in the Sedition Wars universe. We’ll be selling these miniatures as limited availability resins castings at the show, and then in the Studio McVey store right after that.
First up is a brand new Vanguard unit equipped with the Gnosis pattern armour. The unit is lead by Sgt. Killian Brace, and also features three trooper poses and a heavy weapon operative. These miniatures are around 50mm tall to the head, and very imposing.
In the next update we will be showing just why the Vanguard has to go into battle so heavily armed and armoured…
Are they going only ever be 'limited availability' castings? If so, what good are they for the future of the game? If not, are the 'always available' casting going to be resin, metal, that awful restic?
AFAIK the resins are limited run like Grist and Phaedrus and then they will be in whatever material they choose for the new game.
Re scale. (quick badly lit picture) Restic Kara next to Resin Grist. Grist is about half a head taller the waist line is roughly the same. Kara's suit pose is leaning backwards slightly she is a little smaller but not enough to throw it off. The Resins should match up to Resin Grist size wise.
That's actually the head from the regular Captain Kara that I swapped in in place of the original Gnosis head which is tiny her original Captain Kara head is bigger than Grists
scarletsquig wrote: They're nice enough, but being premium resin that's likely £100 or so for the unit of 5.
Which is what prompted my concern about how they contribute to the future of the game. Limited editions + super high pricing =/= helping grow the game or the community of players. It caters to a handful of folks with really deep wallets.
scarletsquig wrote: They're nice enough, but being premium resin that's likely £100 or so for the unit of 5.
Which is what prompted my concern about how they contribute to the future of the game. Limited editions + super high pricing =/= helping grow the game or the community of players. It caters to a handful of folks with really deep wallets.
But they are cool figures...
Do they come with the cards necessary for play?
They are resin LE previews (for paint and display more than play),
so no cards
(but paying for some/all of the cost of the sculpt via the LE resins means they can have sculpts in hand when they move to get whatever the next bit of the game is done which is good for the game and it's players especially considering how far ahead all the good sculptors are booked)
There's around 60 new minis sculpted and finished apparently, that's 5 of them anyway (and there were 14 inc Grist and 2 versions of Phaedrus in the original AoS preview).
I'll probably pick up the Characters and one off miniatures (like the Gnosis Heavy Weapon) in resin and wait for the rest of the troops in a material that's cheaper to buy in bulk.
DaveC wrote: I might as well carry on this thread - love it or loath it there's plenty more to come for Sedition Wars previews start today they will be onsale at Salute and then on the store after - resin minis - first up is the Gnosis suit troops and character Killian Brace.
Spoiler:
As I mentioned in the last news posted here, we have Salute next weekend so we wanted to give you a sneak peek at some of the new miniatures we will be previewing there. We’ve been pretty quiet on the new release front for the last few months, but that doesn’t mean we haven’t been busy – quite the contrary. In the last year, we have designed and sculpted more miniatures than in the rest of the time we have been running Studio McVey combined. The main focus of our work has been Sedition Wars, and over the next week we are going to be showing some of the miniatures you will be seeing in the next game set in the Sedition Wars universe. We’ll be selling these miniatures as limited availability resins castings at the show, and then in the Studio McVey store right after that.
First up is a brand new Vanguard unit equipped with the Gnosis pattern armour. The unit is lead by Sgt. Killian Brace, and also features three trooper poses and a heavy weapon operative. These miniatures are around 50mm tall to the head, and very imposing.
In the next update we will be showing just why the Vanguard has to go into battle so heavily armed and armoured…
This is no reflection on you Dave, but I find it intensely annoying when the only miniature shots are painted. Seriously, how many of the details below are pro-level?
Off the top of my head, things that I know I can't do worth crap: lighting effects, some non-metal metals, some very delicate freehand work and so on.
Did they release any un-painted images? Of course, as Scarlet notes, it's ultimately an academic question, since these are without doubt far outside my price range...
I'm a bit surprised to see more coming out for this but, hey, whatever floats the community's boat. For those interested in using these gnosis suits as terminators, here is a comparison pic from a blog posted a while back next to a normal space marine for comparison that I found helpful.
This is the next Sedition Wars miniature we’re previewing – the Thraex. These are the evolutionary pinnacle of the Brute Broodline, which are specifically designed for close combat and corridor fighting. The huge claws on the Thraex can rip through bulkheads and airlock doors with ease.
The miniature is very large – 70mm to the top of the upper claw. I have added a quick scale picture comparing it to a standard Samaritan trooper.
As with the Gnosis unit, the Thraex will be available at Salute and on-line shortly afterwards.
It's actually drunk, doing a hulk hogan pose as it falls down. And the tongue is actually it throwing up...
I like the no tail tyranid look, but I agree, that pose is awful. Though, with the woman/mouse comparison, it could be saying "OMG!! Shoot the mouse Samaritan, shoot the mouse! Aaaaah!" Very high pitched...
I love the look of the Gnosis Suits. I was disappointed that the KS version had an open helmet. They look so much cooler closed up. Too bad they're so small though.
Cool design, not the greatest pose. I see the logic in it, as it's supposed to be lunging at prey or something... but it does look like it's leaping out of the way of something scary.
What's sad is I see these previews and my hope level starts rising again...
Absolutionis wrote: The design is awesome in that it's horrific, meaty, and monstrous.
The pose, however, is awful. It looks like it just saw a mouse and is hopping to the side in an effeminate shriek like in those old cartoons.
I almost completely agree. Cool monster, stupid pose. However, I think it looks more like some dumb klutz tripping over his own feet. I hereby dub him "Derpy Claws".
Since the feet are connected, we can't even use hot water to help him out there.
I wonder just how many hours of sculpting went into such a fundamentally-flawed mini. And then, did the molder, caster and pro painter say anything about it or just pocket their money and say screw it? That's gotta be a confidence booster for team McVey.
That song brought back some fond drunken memories at the theatre! But yeah, that pose is awful. I've been really looking forward to more of Mcveys Strain as I've been using them as the Plague for Deadzone, so when I first saw this I thought great thats my Plague Teraton sorted then a second later I thought maybe not as it will not be a big scaredy cat!
Of all the stuff I've seen to date the Thraex does have the weakest pose I can see what they were trying to achieve with it but without the context of a Bulkhead to break through it does lose something. The legs and body are all molded as one piece so it would be difficult to modify.
1 thing I have noticed about the minis this time (that I've seen) is that the left and right arms are in more open poses, there's very little holding a weapon 2 handed that crosses the chest/torso (the Gnosis heavy Weapon being the only one I've seen), even the more basic Vanguard troopers have a ranged weapon in one hand and a combat weapon in the other so they should hopefully be easier to put together next time.
Reduction in two handed gripping of weapons speaks to their intent to keep using the same craptacular restic from the first kick starter. While I will support their limited resin versions I wouldn't touch another box game with a crappy stick.
Amongst the many new miniatures we have been making for Sedition Wars, are characters for a new faction – The Bounty Dogs.
The first one we’re previewing here, is someone who will be familiar to those of you who know our Limited Edition resin range – Vantara Sharro. Famed through SolCon as a extreme combat sports athlete, Sharro turned to the Bounty Dog network to provide her with the ultimate thrill of the chase. Available as a high quality resin in limited quantities at Salute, and in the Stdio McVey store shortly after that.
however she's been sculpted 'in scale' with the previous Sharro there's no way she'll work as a PVC mini as the thin arms/legs/head will shrink far too much (like Hexen from the KS)
even if they are able to 'upscale' her to try and account for it I'd be worried until I'd seen one in the hand
Two more Bounty Dogs today (and possible some more later…)!
Ashar and Zoyra introduce some alien races to the Sedition Wars universe. Zoyra is an outcast noble, seeking validation amongst humans rather than living in exile on her home world. A former member of Zorya’s personal guard, Ashar is of the Muribdan warrior caste. He is bonded to a scythed symbiotic, this creature provides Ashar with a neurotoxic saber made of monoblade bone. It also acts as biological power armor, folding Ashar in chiton.
Ashar is large – 36mm in that pose (shown on 50mm base) and pretty imposing. Zoyra is 30mm in her pose (on 25mm base).
The not!Krogan would be better if the joints were detailed differently. Making the grain follow the length of the joint instead of crossing it might make it look more like the symbiote's muscles than the distinctly artificial cabling it resembles now.
Sharro is either a cyborg or an android it's been left deliberately unclear in the background so far. She has cybernetic legs and at least one arm is as well (right arm) probably both are. She's a former extreme combat athelete so her legs and arms are probably longer than normal for that reason it's the same on the original sculpt as well her limbs are intentionally disproportionate to her body.
And more. You wait ages for a SW update and loads come along at once:
One more Bounty Dog preview for today, then we’ll have some new Strain tomorrow.
Gilgamesh is a former Clone gladiator – his body heavily battle scarred from years in the arena, fighting for the entertainment of the SolCon elite.
Freed as an honour, he knows only his trade, and is a Bounty Dog because it is the only chance he has to keep his edge.
I liked the lizard guy. I'd take a few in a better quality restic. Maybe I can proxy some sort of Infinity force with them and shut Barzam up about giving the game a try.
Haha damn, in their own way I'm really liking these new models. The alien in the red outfit reminds me of a Samara from Mass Effect and I'm pretty sure that Gilgamesh is actually Guile from Street Fighter
zedmeister wrote: And more. You wait ages for a SW update and loads come along at once:
One more Bounty Dog preview for today, then we’ll have some new Strain tomorrow.
Gilgamesh is a former Clone gladiator – his body heavily battle scarred from years in the arena, fighting for the entertainment of the SolCon elite.
Freed as an honour, he knows only his trade, and is a Bounty Dog because it is the only chance he has to keep his edge.
This guy looks like he was sculpted for and approved from someone who works at Mantic.
The womalien-in-a-corset mini took all the wrong lessons from the Klingon Cleavage Sisters.
EDIT: There's more?
Gilgamesh is pretty awful, but Cosplay Sbarro makes me feel ashamed for McVey. As if Travis and the Fandalorians hadn't done enough to put people off star wars, now we need a shameless cash-in homage mini of the least committed Mando at the convention. Do we get a Sailor Bacon next? How about a guy with two sock puppets calling himself a Pierson's Puppeteer?
I'm sorry. I saw that mini and I started having convention flashbacks. I can practically hear the filk music. Shudder.
I love the gnosis suits, reptilian thing and the Thraex (pose reminds me of a dog running on a smooth surface, slipping and scratching as it's trying to get traction)!
The bounty hunters look good too... guy's head looks like he is shrugging (no neck), but still looks good. Nice to see SW get some love!
It's really strange that these previews are so hit and miss. The gnosis (sp?) suits are really cool, and the big burly alien is also well-sculpted. Everything else, though... is a clear miss. Maybe Gilgamesh will look better unpainted?
I do like the gnosis suits, and a couple of the mercs, but want to see what they look like in restic and see how they handle scaling differences between materials.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: .. As if Travis and the Fandalorians hadn't done enough to put people off star wars..
Hah, I'd heard that there were people who hated on her work but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Her RepCom books were the only part of the EU I even remotely enjoyed, if only because it was nice to see some Mary Sues who weren't rocking brown bathrobes and glowsticks. My name is Siygess and I guess I am a Fandalorian
That said, while the Boba helmet made me smile, I wouldn't put it on that model.
Alpharius wrote: McVey isn't really putting up stuff that meets the standards he's set for his stuff...
This is disappointing.
It's not just that. But the fact he went so long without any new product release, sucks more so for the few people who love the game and fluff (I'm sure there are a few).
Instead waits over a year for new releases and you can't even get them unless you sit in front of the computer 24/7. The ones that will be regularly available are the ones made in that dead dog S#!t plastic.
I'll say it again.
SM and CMON fahked up. They should have played small ball.
Instead of going a Zombicide route bucket-o-minis dirt cheap. They should have invested money in partnership with wargames factory. I would have been more happy with 3 or 5 hard plastic Samaritans than I would have been with 15 or 20 Samaritans that I got which remain unpainted.
I really like my sedition wars minis, the stuff in the boxed game is good quality, not too many mould lines and goes together easy. The minis are really detailed and look great with a wash.
Do you have the same box game I do, Squig? Can we trade then? Yours certainly sound a lot better than mine...
If McVey does end up ever doing that new box he talked about, I wonder if it'll still be with CMON?
With Wrath of Kings hopefully dropping next month, and if the quality is comparable to what we've seen so far, maybe there's still hope for decent mass- produced SW stuff?
Filed off the mould lines (no knives, people! Take it slow with a file, I have lost count of the the amount of restic + knife injuries I've heard about online) without too much trouble and found assembly of the SW restic to be much easier than Mantic's restic due to the lower part count per mini.. wasn't having to deal with any 8-piece monstrosities, most are 2-piece with no integrals to snip off.
I'd be interested in another SWKS, but only if it comes with lots of Firebrand stuff.
They might need to go all-out and switch to hard plastic to be considered by a lot of people. Of course with board games, whatever Mantic is using is probably best for mass production, but I don't think SW buyers will go for it.
I don't really see what the problem is with just releasing stuff in metal at a decent price rather than buggering about with resin/restic. If you want something to feel premium, a nice selection of well-cast single-piece metals is one way to go about it. If you're careful with the sculpt design no assembly required, mould lines are a breeze, detail is better than restic or hard plastic, not as expensive as resin. Tin prices aren't what they used to be.
IMHO they should have gone the kingdom death route. Hard plastic low model count with stretch goals being expanded encounters rather than just here's just more jank.
We’ve already previewed one of the new Strain – the Thraex; today we’re going to look at a few of the other Strain miniatures that will feature in the upcoming Sedition Wars games.
The Retairus is the phase two version or the Thraex, and still shows some vague features of the original human host. As with it’s larger Brute brood-line brother, this creature is evolved for close quarters fighting and door breaking. The miniature is small compared to the Thraex, but still larger and far more powerful than any human.
Next we’re going to look at a new brood-line – the Siren. This evolutionary form of the Strain are adept at combat in confined environments – using their snake like bodies to fit in the tight corridors and conduits of deep space facilities.
The Naga is the phase two exo-form, still showing distinct signs of the original host, while the body warps and changes into the desired pattern.
The phase three version of the Siren Brood-line is the Medusa, this large and terrifying creature towers over the Naga and has a range of deadly attacks at it’s disposal. The miniature stands 55mm tall and the long sinuous form makes it an imposing piece.
As with the other previews, these will be available as resin castings at Salute, and in the Studio McVey store shortly after that.
We’ve already previewed one of the new Strain – the Thraex; today we’re going to look at a few of the other Strain miniatures that will feature in the upcoming Sedition Wars games.
The Retairus is the phase two version or the Thraex, and still shows some vague features of the original human host. As with it’s larger Brute brood-line brother, this creature is evolved for close quarters fighting and door breaking. The miniature is small compared to the Thraex, but still larger and far more powerful than any human.http://www.risusiverse.com/
Next we’re going to look at a new brood-line – the Siren. This evolutionary form of the Strain are adept at combat in confined environments – using their snake like bodies to fit in the tight corridors and conduits of deep space facilities.
The Naga is the phase two exo-form, still showing distinct signs of the original host, while the body warps and changes into the desired pattern.
The phase three version of the Siren Brood-line is the Medusa, this large and terrifying creature towers over the Naga and has a range of deadly attacks at it’s disposal. The miniature stands 55mm tall and the long sinuous form makes it an imposing piece.
As with the other previews, these will be available as resin castings at Salute, and in the Studio McVey store shortly after that.
I like how the Naga's breasts get larger the less human it becomes.
Honestly this game looked awesome two-three years ago at Gencon, and was a lot of fun at the demo table. Now I'm not even sure if I want to even buy the base game, much less these new extras.
The Retairus looks like a step in the right direction. If the skull and hand are scaled appropriately for a human miniature, those would be examples of how you do a space zombie right - a mixture of alien biomass and surviving human anatomy.
Yeah, the armor plate breasts look a little silly particularly since it's supposed to be looking Less human in that form. And does it still have an "hourglass" shape when in that monster form? Head scratching!
Here is some of the stuff that was state of the art 35 years ago. I had all these Minifigs miniatures, and more, and thought myself lucky.
The big complaint now is that you need to use a file not a knife to get rid of the moulding lines on some of the dozens of different ranges of SF figures on the market.
The only model I really love is the Ashar, which I'll consider buying in resin. It somehow manages to blend good design with an effective pose, a gun it looks able to support, reasonable proportions, and, strangely enough, no incongruous boobs stuck to its chest.
I am really loving the paintjob on all of these strain pieces. I don't like the Medusa, the proportions look cartoony to me (large head, tiny waist, big hands, etc.)
However, the only thing I keep thinking is "imagine the horror of cleaning mold lines off all those segmented plates!"
And Phaedrus - the bendy arm probalbly won't be a a lot of people's tastes but it should be easy to convert back to normal. There's a fluff/rules reason for the arm.
This is a character we’ve met before, but she’s seen here in her fully evolved form.
Brilliant, beautiful, and utterly merciless Dr. Hexen Phaedrus was a specialist in nano-technology and neural interface systems at the Alabaster Science facility. She had advanced knowledge of how the Strain nano-phage worked, and a desire to see it contained and controlled. After reverse engineering the nano-phage, she took the radical decision to inoculate herself, but not without first building a back door safeguard into the nano-tech she developed. Now she retains full control of her evolution, and of the exo-forms around her – bending them to her own merciless ambitions.
Phaedrus will be available at Salute, along with the symbiotic Chirurge manifestation.
Yeah I picked up the Chirurge last year on the basis that a restic version (in AoS) would be a nightmare to clean up. Guess I will need to get the new Phaedrus in resin too although that arm looks like it could be highly prone to snapping. Ironically in restic it might be more durable! Decisions, decisions..
I'm confused: the blurb states that the Siren models shown are level 2 and 3, was there a level 1 shown before?
As an aside, while DaveC's reposting these images and blurbs is much appreciated, why isn't McVey putting this out through kickstarter updates? That's a channel to over 4k people, all of which were interested in the property (at one point) to plunk down some cash. Has the relationship between C'MoN and McVey really dropped to such a level that C'MoN won't relay these kinds of updates?
I don't mean that as a snide remark, I genuinely am curious as there seems (emphasis on the superficial) that the relationship between creator and publisher here.
By level 2 and 3 you mean Phase 2 and Phase 3 Exo-forms in the same way as a Quasimodo is a phase 2 that can evolve into a phase 3 Brimstone, a Naga is a phase 2 Siren that can evolve into a phase 3 Siren - the Medusa and a phase 2 Brute - the Retarius can evolve into a phase 3 brute - the Thraex.
You might also notice from the newer cards that Stalkers can evolve into phase 3 Siren Broods and Quasimodos can evolve into phase 3 Titan Broods.
Level 1s are always necro-forms, the Revenants, Bone crabs and some new ones - they can't evolve at all.
Phaedrus is a Phase 4 last I heard.
As for the kickstarter updates I guess because it's a separate product from the first kickstarter and it's still a long way from release yet these are just initial resin previews to get the ball rolling as Salute is up this weekend and it's local for Studio McVey. Remember these are limited number resin runs produced by SMV themselves there will only be a few (relatively speaking) to go around so Salute attendees and those that vist the new Studio McVey website regularly and keep up to date there will get first call. CMoN are not involved in the sale of the resins anyway. I've been told there are no issues between the publisher and creator.
Kilkrazy wrote: Frankly we are spoiled nowadays.
Here is some of the stuff that was state of the art 35 years ago. I had all these Minifigs miniatures, and more, and thought myself lucky.
The big complaint now is that you need to use a file not a knife to get rid of the moulding lines on some of the dozens of different ranges of SF figures on the market.
I had a ton of the generic fantasy Minifigs, and the not-LotR ranges. Still, time marches on and our expectations change. May as well talk about how spoiled we are with cars instead of horses, or washing machines instead of a wash board down at the river, or running hot water instead of using the kettle over the hearth, or butter/margarine instead of having to use Lard, like mum had to during the war. Electricity instead of gas lamps. The internet instead of mail order pages in the back of Dragon Magazine. And so on.
Today we are going to be looking at three new Firebrand previews.
The first character shown here is Gemma, AKA Big Sister. Gemma is a Kaliyama class clone, grown from servitor vats specifically for gladiatorial entertainment. She has four arms, the upper, designed for strength and power, carry a heavy auto-shotgun. Her lower arms, built for speed and dexterity each bear Scather industrial cutters. She’s shown on a 50mm base – so she’s quite imposing.
Next is a brand new version of a familiar character – Vokker Dargu.
Later today, we’ll be looking at another Firebrand character, and what is probably my favourite of all the new miniatures – The Preacher.
This is my favourite of all the new miniatures shown so far – Uriah Severn, one of the mysterious Preachers, who are follow with religious zeal by the faithful of the Firebrand rebellion.
Only one clue so far exists as to the Preachers’ origins. In the Magellan Expanse, a Vanguard patrol picked up an obsolete data-relay broadcast from the surface of a desolate planet. Upon closer inspection, the flight recorder of a wrecked, antiquated ship was discovered. The ship was identified as a long-lost prototype exploration shuttle belonging to Uriah Severn, a test pilot dispatched from the Edge to explore the uncharted regions between galaxies. Of Severn himself, or his crew, there was no sign; but since that discovery, his name has been spoken by Firebrand captives as the most divine prophet in the Edge. Where he went during his three decades in hyperspace is unknown. And what he brought back—if indeed, the Preacher called Severn is still the same man—is a source of great concern to SolCon…
I like all the new sculpts a lot, even the guy with no neck looks fine to me. I'm glad to see them finally doing a lot of new minis. I'd really like to see them drop the board game or at least come out with alternate skirmish rules. I tried it with the board, but I guess I just like tape measures better.
I'm surprised how many people want to buy these in resin. I can understand hating the restic, but none of these minis are worth the price they will cost in resin. The market has too many affordable minis to make boutique resin anything more than an overly expensive novelty, and restic just doesn't work for lots of person-sized 18mm minis. Maybe Mantic has found the right material with boardgame plastic? Hard plastic would be even better, but there's no way Team McVey can afford entry into that club anymore.
That said, I'd totally buy some of the cool monsters in restic for Mantic prices. Too bad about the medusa.
McVey: "This mini could look sexier."
Sculptor: "It's a bio-technological snake monster with a fanged slug mouth and tentacles. It's not sexy."
BobtheInquisitor wrote: .. As if Travis and the Fandalorians hadn't done enough to put people off star wars..
Hah, I'd heard that there were people who hated on her work but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Her RepCom books were the only part of the EU I even remotely enjoyed, if only because it was nice to see some Mary Sues who weren't rocking brown bathrobes and glowsticks. My name is Siygess and I guess I am a Fandalorian That said, while the Boba helmet made me smile, I wouldn't put it on that model.
I mostly have a problem with her interaction with the fans. Also, some of my friends are big fans of hers who use Mando'a vocabulary the way I a nerd uses Klingon. And Boba Fett should never have been a caring family man Jedi-slayer.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The market has too many affordable minis to make boutique resin anything more than an overly expensive novelty
Are you talking about buying resin when the same mini will be available in a different material?
If you are just talking about high end resin minis being ridiculous when you could be buying 500 of whatever blob Mantic releases this month for the same price, then, yikes...
There's some very cool sculpts here... But there were some very cool sculpts in the kickstarter second wave as well... And going by how the production minis turned out from that, I would have zero confidence that these will turn out looking anywhere near a good as the images here.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: .. As if Travis and the Fandalorians hadn't done enough to put people off star wars..
Hah, I'd heard that there were people who hated on her work but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Her RepCom books were the only part of the EU I even remotely enjoyed, if only because it was nice to see some Mary Sues who weren't rocking brown bathrobes and glowsticks. My name is Siygess and I guess I am a Fandalorian That said, while the Boba helmet made me smile, I wouldn't put it on that model.
I mostly have a problem with her interaction with the fans. Also, some of my friends are big fans of hers who use Mando'a vocabulary the way I a nerd uses Klingon. And Boba Fett should never have been a caring family man Jedi-slayer.
I liked her first Clone Trooper book, but she really is a terrible person. She might like to think of herself as a journalist but she's really a propagandist for a monstrous worldview - one that says that genocide is a good way to resolve an inferiority complex.
The most human one was a woman, became part of the baddies; there's another version of her fused with a combat host. The other two are one type and its upgraded form, and it's an extension of another iteration from the first line, so, really there's only the question of one type of monster having breasts since the four here either have a reason or follow naturally.
We’re currently on our way down to London for Salute tomorrow, the car is packed to the roof and I’ve just remembered I forgot to print out the price lists – one more job to do when we get there! We’re really looking forward to the show though, it’s always a great day and we really enjoy catching up with everyone. We’re at stand TL13 – please come by and see us if you’re going to be there.
Just time for one more preview though!
Tumult is the AI of the Bastion ship, Arms of Sorrow. Seen here in his Envoy form, he appears as a tall sleek humanoid. Apparently unarmed, he is still a dangerous opponent with many micro weapons concealed in his frame.
The Sedition Wars preview Miniatures will be available in limited numbers on the online store at the same prices after Salute. Mike mentioned staggering releases so they don't all land at once. (The other limited editions are discounted for Salute attendees only - no online discount)
The Gnosis unit is £80 for Trooper A, B and C + Gnosis Heavy and Killian Brace (£92 Separate selling price)
and one last bit of news:
There will be new 50mm base designs - they aren't done yet hence every 50mm base being the current single design.
I really like Tumult, Preacher (although I don't get why he travels in a heavily armored unit that's completely open to attack on the sides), and the reptilian bodyguard alien. Those are Studio McVey at the top of their game, doing the best sci-fi design in the market.
The Strain boob thing . . . I'm generally not a fan of sexing up miniatures, partially because, like sexy cartoons (a lot of anime), I find it fundamentally ridiculous.
That said, I think Hexen's human form is a great sculpt, which stands out among "arch-villain" miniatures for its character and presence. The tentacle hand thing actually works for me, too, and its weird menace helps set her apart from the typical Daemonette / evil mutated young woman.
If I have a problem with Hexen at all, it's the introduction of the idea that the Strain has quickly been mastered by a human to the point that she can use and direct it with apparently no risk to herself. While this elevates Hexen to a memorable villain, it correspondingly lowers the Strain to something that can be controlled and subordinated, detracting from its inhuman intelligence and menace. It's a trade-off with pros and cons. Davros is one of my favorite Dr. Who villains (Wisher is my #1 of course, Molloy an inspired #2), but I also agree with critics that his recurring presence tends to water down the impact of the Daleks themselves. Same with Hexen's closest analogue (and likely direct inspiration), Kerrigan, Queen of Blades, and her vassal Zerg.
My preferred solution would be to have Hexen's perfect control over her own evolution become a grey area, where as in a traditional Faustian bargain, the power she acquires through the Strain threatens to consume / assimilate her. For best effect and story mileage, I'd leave her final fate - to be master of or mastered by the Strain - unresolved for a good long while in the fluff, throwing out the occasional clue that Hexen's control over her troops and the Strain's presence in her own body isn't entirely resolved.
The miniature where the boob issue bothers me most is the same one bothering others, the final form of the Medusa thing. I'm not going to go on and on about it, but there's a great monster miniature in there that those breasts render absurd. I like the rest of the design enough that I think it will be worth the extra trouble to greenstuff them away.
Outside of that, some of the bounty hunters aren't my cup of tea. The gladiator is too comical with a dash of anime hair, the female alien looks like she's wearing something dominatrix inspired, and the design of the four-armed woman just doesn't work. Not because of any objectification - hers is obviously a very different take on the female form - but because her extra arms don't really look functional. They stick out of her back awkwardly and crowd her arm movements in a way that doesn't suggest her body has been engineered to use them, in which case their placement and design would make anatomical, practical sense (and probably require a more radical redesign of her thoracic region.) The four-armed design doesn't have to be defensible in a scientific journal, it just needs to look like it works.
The alternate Boba Fett helmet for the woman with the overlarge guns is a plus, but only because I could use it on other minis. It doesn't really go with her costume.
These releases are a mixed bag for me, but the ones I like are definitely worth my time and money.
I was drawn to the comment of that Tumult sculpt being his "envoy" form. That speaks to me that he (it?) has multiple forms possibly. Maybe a bigger, nastier one that's better suited to deal with Strain with weapons other than micro ones....
Tumult is this games version of Hurley an AI that can upload into various forms as circumstances require such as an android or hover tank (Hurley) - I've only seen the mini and rules for android Tumult - I don't think there will be another version.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I was drawn to the comment of that Tumult sculpt being his "envoy" form. That speaks to me that he (it?) has multiple forms possibly. Maybe a bigger, nastier one that's better suited to deal with Strain with weapons other than micro ones....
Considering he is the AI of a ship I think the implication is that his other form is...the ship.
I think Gemma's 4 arms are a consequence of her being something that was originally designed for an alternate use
2 heavy duty arms designed for grunt work in her original labouring configuration in the normal shoulder position
2 additional arms designed to allow her to perform more delicate work mounted lower on the body which would allow her to manipulate stuff directly in front of her if she held the main arms out of the way
the original configuration was not intended to use all 4 arms at once but when liberated (re-programmed?) by the firebrand it at least means she's got melee weapons available faster than trying to draw them
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I think Gemma's 4 arms are a consequence of her being something that was originally designed for an alternate use
2 heavy duty arms designed for grunt work in her original labouring configuration in the normal shoulder position
2 additional arms designed to allow her to perform more delicate work mounted lower on the body which would allow her to manipulate stuff directly in front of her if she held the main arms out of the way
the original configuration was not intended to use all 4 arms at once but when liberated (re-programmed?) by the firebrand it at least means she's got melee weapons available faster than trying to draw them
Her lower arms seem to be missing the shoulder joint, which really hampers their utility for anything other than getting in the way of the upper arms. Bad anatomy/design, it could have been a lot better.
We are now working with a completely new production vendor and the difference in quality is significant… I'm really happy with what I have seen so far - we'll have production samples before we launch any future products.
The most human one was a woman, became part of the baddies; there's another version of her fused with a combat host. The other two are one type and its upgraded form, and it's an extension of another iteration from the first line, so, really there's only the question of one type of monster having breasts since the four here either have a reason or follow naturally.
We are now working with a completely new production vendor and the difference in quality is significant… I'm really happy with what I have seen so far - we'll have production samples before we launch any future products.
mike
Seeing the prices of there resins for the new strain I think I'll wait for the plastics.
We are now working with a completely new production vendor and the difference in quality is significant… I'm really happy with what I have seen so far - we'll have production samples before we launch any future products.
mike
Three things:
1. Considering how much of a **** up the 2nd wave of KS minis was, SMV absolutely HAS to have production samples out for people to see before the vast majority of them will even consider buying plastic/restic/whatever-tic SW stuff again.
2. Reading that made me realize how much of the community's trust Mike has squandered. I mean, I read that and thought "'Difference in quality is significant'? Riiiiiight. I'll believe that when I see it," and I'm definitely a supportive and understanding type. If that was my thought, I can only imagine what the rest of the Interets (frothingly negative as they can be) will think.
3. Still hoping McVey can get this crap ironed out: the SW universe intrigues me, my experience with BfA has been fun, and I always want the "little guy" to succeed. I know he's largely dug his own grave here, but still.
We’re currently on our way down to London for Salute tomorrow, the car is packed to the roof and I’ve just remembered I forgot to print out the price lists – one more job to do when we get there! We’re really looking forward to the show though, it’s always a great day and we really enjoy catching up with everyone. We’re at stand TL13 – please come by and see us if you’re going to be there.
Just time for one more preview though!
Tumult is the AI of the Bastion ship, Arms of Sorrow. Seen here in his Envoy form, he appears as a tall sleek humanoid. Apparently unarmed, he is still a dangerous opponent with many micro weapons concealed in his frame.
1. Considering how much of a **** up the 2nd wave of KS minis was, SMV absolutely HAS to have production samples out for people to see before the vast majority of them will even consider buying plastic/restic/whatever-tic SW stuff again.
You and I know that will not happen, if it were, we would probably get cleaned up sample.
It also depends on what type of plastic used. Crispness issue was not too big of a deal to me. It was quite soft in detail but not heart breaking.
The rubbery plastic and shrinkage is what really killed.
Honestly, I wouldn't have a big problem with the Sedition Wars restics if I knew what they would be like when I ordered them (which I do now) and if they were priced reasonably for their quality. Yes, I am still bitter over the $15 THI suits and $10 character minis. If Sedition Wars was priced more like Mantic, it would be a lot more attractive for retail purchasing.
Yeah, I think they unfortunately fell in the middle (at least with some of the add-ons)... without low price or high quality, kind of a miniature pergatory...
They've said they'll have production samples of new models, I believe, so hopefully folks will know what they're getting for new releases in restic.
In the dystopian times ahead, the shiny still wrapped in plastic "Sedition Wars" box you brought back from your scavenging duty is just going to hurt you; the only punishment fitting that misdead is having to clean off all the moldlines with the makeshift knife you carry around. If you survive all the self inflicted cuts and accidental stabbings - you get to wear that t-shirt as a warning to all.
We’re currently on our way down to London for Salute tomorrow, the car is packed to the roof and I’ve just remembered I forgot to print out the price lists – one more job to do when we get there! We’re really looking forward to the show though, it’s always a great day and we really enjoy catching up with everyone. We’re at stand TL13 – please come by and see us if you’re going to be there.
Just time for one more preview though!
Tumult is the AI of the Bastion ship, Arms of Sorrow. Seen here in his Envoy form, he appears as a tall sleek humanoid. Apparently unarmed, he is still a dangerous opponent with many micro weapons concealed in his frame.
All I see is this
Strange it makes me think of this
The recent sculpts really have my interest peaked.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yep- felt way closer to Manhattan than some Robin Williams toy thing(?).
That's The Bicentennial Man - a heartwarming story about conforming to the insecurities of bigots, even if it kills you.
That movie traumatized the gak out of me as a child. Awful. Robin Williams and everyone else involved should feel bad about making it.
The android is the first figure from the line that's really jumping out at me. I could certainly find a use for it, assuming the final production quality is up to par.
I think the models look great.. are they more like terminator sized or centurion sized? If it's the latter then it's a better deal than GW where you get 3 for like $75
Necros wrote: I think the models look great.. are they more like terminator sized or centurion sized? If it's the latter then it's a better deal than GW where you get 3 for like $75
Haven't seen a centurion in person, but for a scale comparison, the collar/shoulders on the model released in PVC is about the same height as the top of a terminator's carapace, meaning they stand a (smallish) head taller than terminators. Unless they've dealt with the material issue, I'd expect the resin ones to be marinally larger still, putting the shoulders taller than a terminator's top.
Alpharius wrote: The lesson here being that people will pay for quality, I guess?
Or that McVey has enough of a fandom/following/collector base that a certain group of people will buy anything he releases. Not unusual at all, especially for the smaller, boutique manufacturers.
The big phaedrus has really fine detail. Those extensions are all separate bits, so they won't break in the mail, though I've been too nervous to glue mine in until it's painted...
Mike specifically apologized for the sculpting issues with the second wave (the sculptor for wave 1 wasn't available, the sculptors he hired for wave 2 were unused to the shrinkage with the material-IIRC they normally sculpt for resin).
Other than that, I believe CMoN was responsible for material choice, but unsure about that, and I'm pretty sure the sculptor choice is the only confirmed thing about the process.
Piston Honda wrote: How much of the QC issues and material choices were McVeys fault and what were CMoN's fault?
Guess will never know beyond the "Trust me, I have an inside guy who knows" rumor.
It doesn't really matter. McVey publicly stated that the change in style and scale for wave two was a deliberate design choice. So even if the casting had been perfect, the wave 2 minis were never going to be compatible with wave 1.
The whole mess has resulted in a big box of stuff that I was initially very excited about, that I now have absolutely no idea what to do with. The wave 2 stuff isn't good enough to be worth taking the time to paint, and it's killed my enthusiasm for doing anything with wave 1.
And it's a damn shame, because the game had such potential.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Mike specifically apologized for the sculpting issues with the second wave (the sculptor for wave 1 wasn't available, the sculptors he hired for wave 2 were unused to the shrinkage with the material-IIRC they normally sculpt for resin).
Other than that, I believe CMoN was responsible for material choice, but unsure about that, and I'm pretty sure the sculptor choice is the only confirmed thing about the process.
All the more reason I wish they played small ball.
They bit off more than they can chewed. I was worried about this in the comments of chat section and BGG all I was told was to STFU and was called a troll. There are some great aspects about sedwars but the negatives just outweigh the positives.
Sold almost all my stuff. Just have a few copies of the limited editions, dice and 2 boxes worth of minis without bases. Quite surprised the LEs sell fairly well (specifically the serenity crew). Almost made my money back.
Am I allowed to say I quite enjoyed the game, and a lot of the models were lovely..?
Although, I didn't pledge anything like the amount of some people so it could be that's why I wasn't effected by these things.
Painted the Vanguard up as modern British army troopers and now have an almost limitless supply of sci-fi zombies for use in other games also. Some of the large exo-suits were pretty cool as well..
It doesn't really matter. McVey publicly stated that the change in style and scale for wave two was a deliberate design choice. So even if the casting had been perfect, the wave 2 minis were never going to be compatible with wave 1.
The whole mess has resulted in a big box of stuff that I was initially very excited about, that I now have absolutely no idea what to do with. The wave 2 stuff isn't good enough to be worth taking the time to paint, and it's killed my enthusiasm for doing anything with wave 1.
And it's a damn shame, because the game had such potential.
I got a refund for most of my Wave 2 stuff. (A couple hundred bucks). I had to send them photos of the dismembered models, so I managed to get some pleasure out of Sedition Wars in the end.
At some stage I'll speedpaint the plague to use as Space Zombies of some kind. I may or may not use the Vanguard as somewhat generic sci-fitroopers. Though restic cleaning means that may well never happen. I'll probably never actually play Sedition Wars, though.
I'm still amused by the "destroy your models for a refund" thing... never heard anything like it!
I'm still loving the two super-cheap firesale copies of the game I got, they have been awesome for Deadzone, have used the humans and sniper for Rebs, and am thinking of making use of the helmeted humans and drones as proxy Asterians until the faction is released.
With most of the minis being 1-2 piece, they're not that bad to clean as far as restic goes and there isn't any warping in my set, I've had some with 7-8 pieces from Mantic that were insane.
And in addition to that, I have a ready-made generic sci-fi plague zombie swarm, some nice character models, and some spare cards which I'll be re-purposing with sticky labels.
I did look through the rules, but they looked overcomplex and fiddly, more skirmish game than board game.
insaniak wrote: McVey publicly stated that the change in style and scale for wave two was a deliberate design choice. So even if the casting had been perfect, the wave 2 minis were never going to be compatible with wave 1.
In this light, it's going to be very interesting to see what scale the latest figures are - wave 1 or wave 2? When I receive the Tumult figure I just ordered, I'll post some pictures here of him alongside some Sedition Wars characters and other models so people can see which way the scale winds are blowing.
I know resin and "restic" have different shrinkage properties, but with that grain of salt recognized, the comparison may still be helpful.
Tumult is 36mm tall per the description he's bigger than a "human" sized model by design so he will be taller than the Samaritans the new miniatures have been designed with shrinkage taken into account so the resin versions will be a bit bigger than the later plastic ones.
The only picture I have for comparison for now is resin Grist and Gnosis troopers versus PVC Gnosis Kara ( note the resins have had no clean up and are held together with bluTac)
You can see there's allowance for shrinkage even rivets are oversized
And my solution to make Kara taller as I have all the rest in resin (you might notice I replaced the head with a spare one from the boxed game which has since been reposed to look in the direction she's firing and I've now replaced the sword blade with something a bit more substantial).
First, thanks, Dave, for the scale confirmation. Don't remember hearing that addressed.
scarletsquig wrote: I did look through the rules, but they looked overcomplex and fiddly, more skirmish game than board game.
I like the game a lot, but definitely agree with this: outside of the "board" part, there isn't a lot that makes it a board game compared to a regular minis game.
I feel like this is true of a lot of the newer generation of board games (which I'd argue began with FFG), where they're just too complex to be regular board games since they're half-way to RPGs or TTGs. I'm really looking forward to some new language in the gaming community, to describe these, since, while I've liked some of them, there are times when I've opened a "board game" and discovered it's a hybrid and been frustrated since I wanted something with quick rules, not just another type of game that happens to be on a grid.
Simply awesome! I bought the first release (Gnosis suits), and McVey's resins are still top notch. I placed an order for two of each of these - can't wait to get them in my hands. They remind me of a mix of bio-horror/zerg/tyranids.
I haven't gotten a chance to play the game yet, but I love the minis, especially the resins.
I wonder when he will be releasing the bounty hunters?
Interesting, will give them a read. The original rules didn't really impress me as a 2-player game, but I may give it a go as 1-player, or see if they can be adapted to be co-op.
If those solo rules are decent, I may end up grabbing another one of those Miniature Market copies.
Not sure why either, since I have a perfectly viable copy already sitting at home. I know my daughter busted the tentacles off one of those bigger Strain models, so maybe that's the reason.
I still have to get that terrain pack one of these days.
I just ordered a third set from miniaturemarket.com. All three at the $39.00, which even with some war page is great considering you get the 50 bases and other things. Going to use the strain as chaos cultists for my iron warriors (rabble infected with the obliterated virus) and the bigger beasts as obliterators and maulers (demons bound into service of the iron warriors using technology to harness the warp power. Probably won't get other series models because of all the problems, but the bases are nice for necromunda and scifi bloodbowl as the color rings can be stunned/pinned or other notes.
I actually picked up three boxes on clearance at miniaturemarket. I like the figs from the main set, I just wish that all these new things weren't limited edition $$$$$$ grabs. I'm using the strain to be my plague guys for Deadzone and might use the humans as corporation guys for warpath.
Anyone wanting to unload lots of stuff for cheap let me know via pm. It's got to be cheap though.
RiTides wrote: Some of those look quite good. But expensive in resin... are they limited edition as well, or what do you mean by "exclusive"?
Exclusive in Resin - these will probably be PVC'd for the expansion, so if you like them but can't stand PVC, get them in resin or you'll end up with no thumbs when you do get them
I have a whole biohazard set for sale too, US based PM me if interested!
I bought into the game thinking I'd use the figures for a high tech guard army and the others for demons.. but I just don't really play 40k these days. No time to paint up new armies anymore let alone play with them.
That said I do think they game has potential, but they really need to turn it into a regular old skirmish with freebie rules like Infinity.
more people selling than want to buy. What does that say?
If I am interested in buying any more from this line it is metal or resin only, yet resin are LE in small quantities.
I think mike was better off keeping SedWars small at first. Perhaps keep them in metal and resin, small little rule set. If the time ever came where it got big enough he could start producing them in HIPs.
oh well. more money towards other things.
Interested to see how a second KS will perform. Considering all the complaints I could not imagine it doing better. But I have seen more than enough people who bitch and moan about CMON or KS in general and 9 times out of 10 I see them in the next one.
I'd be in on the next one honestly. I didn't have nearly the problem with the main game models most people seem to have. I won't be buying anything that's an add-on likely like promo figures since I did have a problem with them but I'd probably back at a standard level an expansion. Lots of good stuff came out of SW. Just not as much as we wanted or how
I would be in (no problems with most of the 1st KS stuff except a few of the exclusives),
and they've given me the solo rules I wanted too
but I don't actually like the look of most of the bounty dogs so depending on how the set breaks down I probably won't find enough value in it... (but I may well try an get hold of the strain in whatever plastic they use)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: but I don't actually like the look of most of the bounty dogs so depending on how the set breaks down I probably won't find enough value in it... (but I may well try an get hold of the strain in whatever plastic they use)
Yeah, it's interesting. The sculpts are technically well done, and some of them are outstanding. But there are a lot of design misfires in this batch - moreso than in the original Sedition Wars - according to my personal taste. Others may differ, which is fine, but I found the bounty dogs largely disappointing (only loved Ashar), and a good number of the Strain sculpts compromised by awkward posing or incongruous breasts. What's good in the set is really good, but I'm not seeing $150 worth of KS pledge in it right now.
I'm not really sure what to make of the Bounty Dogs: I like some of them, but feel like others feel a bit outside of the SW aesthetic. I think it'll only be clear once we see the whole pack.
On the other hand, I'm hugely excited to paint the preacher, it's a gorgeous model with a ton of detail that's hard to notice in pics including some cool interior details (already got my hands on one), and generally looking forward to the release, with plastic for the basic firebrand infantry, since I don't have any need for basic guys to be great casts.
The Cthonian Assault Drone is available in beta form over on the SMV site. If you've got feedback before it's finalized, there'll be a couple weeks before it goes to layout, and I'll be checking the SMV forum and here.
Theophony wrote: FYI, miniaturemarket.com has the base set on deal of the day for $22.00.
Well worth it for the bases alone, and some of the figs are worth it.
And even with that, they still couldn't get rid of them... word of mouth goes a long way in wargaming and it just seems everyone has heard that it is unplayable and the models aren't worth the effort of cleaning.
I considered it for the bases, but it looks like the 25mm only has four variants. They do look good, though, and that would've been under $0.50 a base.
Theophony wrote: FYI, miniaturemarket.com has the base set on deal of the day for $22.00.
Well worth it for the bases alone, and some of the figs are worth it.
And even with that, they still couldn't get rid of them... word of mouth goes a long way in wargaming and it just seems everyone has heard that it is unplayable and the models aren't worth the effort of cleaning.
I considered it for the bases, but it looks like the 25mm only has four variants. They do look good, though, and that would've been under $0.50 a base.
Depends what your using them for. I love the strain models, easily used for chaos cultists, either Nurgle or techno horde armies (twisted warsmiths infecting the population of a world with the virus that makes obliterators....these are just the failed experiments). The humans from the main box are okay, I had heard it was all the wave two stuff where they changed the material and had shrinkage was where people had problems. They could make for a decent guard army from a different world than typical guard you see, and for the price easy conversion bait.
I haven't even looked at the rules, but all the sets I've bought have been from clearance or people dumping their KS orders.
Thought about getting a few more sets, but I'm flooded with them as I am right now.
I'm going to grab a copy for my cousin... eventually. I found the rules to be servicable reading through them, but I haven't gotten a game in yet... having owned it for quite some time. I haven't even finished building my set!
The kid however has time and not much of a mini collection, and the patience to sit their and whittle away at flash and mold lines.
I have a funny feeling that we'll see a steeper markdown for the game during Black Friday.
Regular price seems to be $29.00, at least according to the copy I left in my MMarket shopping cart after the fact.
I'd still like to see the eventual new box- the new baddies were more my taste.
Theophony wrote: ... I had heard it was all the wave two stuff where they changed the material and had shrinkage was where people had problems.
It wasn't just shrinkage. They deliberately changed the scale of the human models for wave 2, when McVey found he couldn't get the same sculptors as had done the box set minis.
That's all I would use mine for, or with generic rulesets. There is not really enough weapons for the Vanguard to get a good variety of Imperial weapons to make them into Imperial Guard, unless you just need them to be generic infantry squads with some counts-as special weapons. Strain would make excellent rethemed Chaos plague zombies, though.
I am still wondering and lamenting how I could get anything near what I bought them for from the Kickstarter (even half would be nice). My first foray, and it pretty much scared me away from any other Kickstarters. I probably would have bought into Deadzone is not for Sedition Wars.
cincydooley wrote: There should be a huge market for these models for Mantic games players.
Theyre far better than any corporation or zombie models that exist for Deadzone/Warpath.
Other than there fantasy Zombies, everything is better than Mantic's models.
I'm not even a fan of their Zombies.
I mostly got Seditions Wars hoping the planned table top version would be good, but I get enough use out of the models with Tomorrow's War that I'm not sure I really need official rules for them.
Looks like Sedition Wars has finally had it after a long drawn out demise. I checked the Studio McVey forums the other day and noticed that they were closing the forums. As part of the announcement, there was mention that there will are no more Sedition Wars releases planned for the foreseeable future. Alas, I can't get the full announcement as it looks like the forum has now been deleted!
So, while possible it may make a return, it will be at some very distant point in the future and will probably be a very different shape. So there we are, it looks like quite a sorry end to a sorry saga. I think Alpharius put it best:
The forum will be open until the 29th of February. It's had some intermittent server issues over the last few days due to increased traffic but it should be back later or I'll chase it up. So if you want any information from it get it now as it won't be rehosted once the forum is switched off when it's gone it's gone.
I spoke to Mike 2 weeks ago about this and it was decided to close the forum due to the low usage levels it just doesn't justify the costs of keeping it open any longer. He has no plans to release any Sedition Wars stuff or any SMV limited resins in 2016. The SW follow up stuff is moth balled and is unlikely to see release (better to write off the cost now than put more money that may not see any return). Mike's just not interested in doing another game anymore.
SMV is working on the miniatures for at least 2 other games right now. Mike would rather just concentrate on making miniatures in future as this worked out much better for him with Blood Rage, The Others and Zombicide Black Plague.
Ah that's too bad. I was at a con last weekend and there was a brand new, sealed copy of Sedition Wars on the bring and buy stand for £15 and I'm pretty sure it went unsold (I have two copies myself plus some extra tiles otherwise I would have picked it up myself). It is such a shame the project went the way that it did.
The models were sooooooo nice but the medium not so much! The quality of the rest of Sedition Wars was great (minus the rules if course), it had so much potential only to fall flat on it's face!
If Mike could of got the minis done again in a different medium (not resin and his post KS resin prices were a joke!) and the rules redone he could of breathed new life into it.
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I think I need all those Strain. I guess I really am the odd man out with this stuff, because I love that Medusa model!
