piperider361 wrote: Got a review copy of the book in. It looks pretty awesome...especially the effort put into the campaign setting. Looking forward to playing some games this week!
Are you under NDA or can you give us some insights?
Hah, no NDA...Osprey sent us the book to talk about it and hype it up after all
BUT, I also don't want to spoil my entire review right away either! Plan to push it out next Monday (I'll link it here as well).
If you're looking for gameplay details, there are a few posted earlier in this thread on various blogs, which I'll happily help promote here, and the creator gave a quick outline on warband building here.
I can't speak as to the Northstar figures - I intend to make my first warband out of the WFB/Mordheim Skaven I currently have. A Grey Seer for the Wizard, and a Warlock Engineer for the Apprentice. I'll use pistol and Jezzail armed models for Crossbowmen (there is no black powder in the rules, but crossbows have an appropriate penetration modifier), and various Clanrats/Stormvermin as various types of troopers.
A big difference from Mordheim is the stress on the wizards, and to a lesser extent, the apprentices. They are just THAT MUCH better than the soldiers (the catch-all for all the rest of the hired mercenaries), and in the campaign setting, will survive a lot longer as well. It's almost like Warmachine/Hordes casters in comparison. The rules are very simple and clean - very few "special" rules to get muddied up. Scheduled to test drive the rules Wednesday evening!
Haha I think I saw your copy over the weekend sitting on a table while you we're playing a tourney. Spent the next few minutes looking on the shelves before I realized it must be a prerelease.
Jerram wrote: Haha I think I saw your copy over the weekend sitting on a table while you we're playing a tourney. Spent the next few minutes looking on the shelves before I realized it must be a prerelease.
Small world it is! But yeah, I was there with said book running a small FoW event!
North Star Military Figures added 2 new photos.
Yesterday at 8:58am ·
The Frostgrave Soldiers plastic box set.
Nickstarter currently at £34,861!
North Star Military Figures added 3 new photos to the album: Frostgrave.
5 hrs ·
A new range of figures by North Star and Osprey Games. A joint project, these miniatures are for the game Frostgrave. Due out in July, Frostgrave is a Fantasy Wargame set in a frozen city.
Anyone know, incidentally, where I might contact the game's creator? I have my pre-orders in, but was actually hoping there would be a way to get a .pdf of the rules as an option, as well.
As a disabled gamer, any chance I can get to bypass needing to flip through a physical book, I will usually take, while still enjoying having a nicely bound book on the shelf. :-)
North Star Military Figures added a new photo to the album: Frostgrave.
7 hrs ·
Small Imp Demon
Imps are generally the smallest and least powerful variety of demon. In appearance, they could be anything from a little blob with a giant mouth, to a spindly insect creature with vestigial wings, or anything in between.
North Star Military Figures added a new photo to the album: Frostgrave.
5 hrs · Edited ·
Snow Leopard. The largest and most vicious of the big cats around Frostgrave, the snow leopard is a dangerous hunter. They have no fear of humans and will attack if they are hungry of feel threatened.
North Star Military Figures added a new photo to the album: Frostgrave.
19 hrs ·
Lectern model, to use as a superior treasure token in the game.
North Star Military Figures added a new photo to the album: Frostgrave.
Yesterday at 3:26am ·
Large Construct
These are constructs that are somewhat larger than a human. They are often still humanoid in shape, but can also be found in the form of living vehicles such as wagons or carriages, or large animals such as bears.
Gotten a chance to play through several games of it now and really enjoying it, especially the campaign system. Gameplay is very simple, and I've been able to teach folks how to play in under five minutes, which is a big plus in my opinion. We should have a decent crew of a dozen folks to play when the book releases, and I'm already planning my next warband!
Gotten a chance to play through several games of it now and really enjoying it, especially the campaign system. Gameplay is very simple, and I've been able to teach folks how to play in under five minutes, which is a big plus in my opinion. We should have a decent crew of a dozen folks to play when the book releases, and I'm already planning my next warband!
Cheers for posting the review
Love how flexible the rules seem, really cool that you can sub in other miniatures so easily. Sure that will make it popular with Mordheim players for that reason!
We came so close to getting to the £40K spend goal. That would have released a free model of a new Templar. I've decided, because we got so close, I'm going to send a free Templar model to every Level 3+ Wizard after all! What we'll do is include a free Crusader Miniatures model of a Knight with a two handed weapon. The model Giorgio is making of the Templar for Frostgrave will be finished, and made available later on.
We came so close to getting to the £40K spend goal. That would have released a free model of a new Templar. I've decided, because we got so close, I'm going to send a free Templar model to every Level 3+ Wizard after all! What we'll do is include a free Crusader Miniatures model of a Knight with a two handed weapon. The model Giorgio is making of the Templar for Frostgrave will be finished, and made available later on.
Agreed, definitely looking forward to whatever they release!
Their 15mm WW2 is brilliant, their 28mm dark age stuff as well, really high quality MDF and you can get a number of buildings finished and ready for a game in an evening.
The good thing about this 4ground stuff is it will also be useful for other fantasy games, medieval games like Lion Rampart and I could see myself playing Bolt Action with it as well.
Have there been any news items yet concerning how many miniatures (on average) you can expect in a warband, or what the force comp needs to be?
At the moment I'm torn between using some of the Fireforge Games Templars as some kind of 'Holy Order' faction (these guys http://fireforge-games.com/webstore/templar-order/templar-infantry-details) or these 'pigface' orcs from Otherworld miniatures (which I think look awesome but are a bit on the pricey side)
Pacific wrote: Have there been any news items yet concerning how many miniatures (on average) you can expect in a warband, or what the force comp needs to be?
At the moment I'm torn between using some of the Fireforge Games Templars as some kind of 'Holy Order' faction (these guys http://fireforge-games.com/webstore/templar-order/templar-infantry-details) or these 'pigface' orcs from Otherworld miniatures (which I think look awesome but are a bit on the pricey side)
They are pricey but also some of the best minis I have ever bought. I've got those exact Orcs and a hag troll and they are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
I forget if its northstar or brigade who said they were going to start shipping on the 7th. Which would make me happy as they are located in jersey (where i am from). So i think either end of this week or early next week the goodies may come in!
I think the stuff for Brigade is only being sent this week as well. Hopefully mind will turn up on Friday or Saturday otherwise it will be at least Wednesday due to public holidays in Norn Iron next week.
i knew that people that went in on the nickstarter were supposed to get it a week or two earlier than the general release. On the Lead Adventure forums a few people already took pics of the stuff that they got.
I just pre-ordered my copy off Amazon. They have it on there for $13.07 if anyone is interested. And if you have prime you will get it on release day (which they have as July 21st)!
Frostgrave is at last ready. The Books and figures are on their way to expectant customers all over the world. It's been a tremendous project, and I'd like to take the opportunity to thank everyone involved, for their commitment to making this a great product.
The first person to thank is of course the author and Osprey Games man Joseph McCullough.
Then thanks to:
Making Frostgrave The Game:
Phil Smith, manager of Osprey Games and editor of Frostgrave.
Richard Sullivan, Osprey Supremo.
Stewart Larking for the rulebook design.
Chris Raine for producing the rulebook.
Steven Meyer-Rassow for the box design.
Zorana Rzanicanin for enthusiasm above and beyond the call of duty.
Martin Spear for getting Tales of the Frozen City sorted out.
Alice Milner for everything digital.
And, especially, Dmitry Burmak, for bringing it all to life.
Making Frostgrave the Miniatures:
There are a group of the miniature designers I work with, the best in their field, who I approached with Frostgrave last July. To my delight, every one of them said ‘yes’ immediately. This meant I had the wonderful problem of having to break up the range into ‘who wanted to do what, who was best at this figure, etc’. They are:
Mike Owen
Mark Sims
Mark Copplestone
Nick Collier
Giorgio Bassani
Richard Kemp
And Bob Naismith for the plastic Frostgrave Soldiers
Plastic Design and Production:
Terry and Joan Ardener, plus the whole Renedra Team.
North Star Military Figures Team:
The following not only put their full efforts into Frostgrave at work, they took it on the road to demo at various UK shows:
Dean Winson
Paul Anson
Karl Tebbutt
Christine King
The rest of the team:
Mark Wheatley
Phil Tonge
Tony Slocombe
Ros Rots
Ben Wheatley
Frances Eyre.
Special mention to Dave Woodward, he not only worked to get the orders out of the door, he also painting lots of the pre-release Frostgrave figures.
Dave King for running the demonstration games.
Kev Dallimore. Where can I start with Kev? He not only painted the majority of the promotional figures, but he prepared the scenes and took the photos for the rulebook, he designed and maintained the Nickstarter page and provided all the graphics you see for Frostgrave online and in the magazines.
Resin Production:
Darryl Ballam
N-FX
Skytrex.
Printing:
Print Revolution
Midland Regional Printers
If I’ve missed anyone out, it wasn’t deliberate, thank you as well!
Lastly I’ll not forget to mention myself, as I’ve managed the Frostgrave figure range from initial design concepts to putting the last figure in the last Nickstarter box.
I hope you’ll enjoy the miniatures and playing the game, this isn’t an end of course, Frostgrave is now a regular product line to order as normal, and we are already working on Frostgrave: The Thaw of the Lich Lord, due out in November.
I wonder if delivery notices will be sent out for this?
Some interesting people posted there with the miniature rule design. I really like some of Mark Copplestone's work, and I know Bob Naismith seems to get some people reaching for their garlic and holy water, but it looks like he has done a fantastic job on that plastic kit. Seriously, from the painted miniatures they look like they are the best plastic fantasy psuedo-historical minis on the market. Actually, the style makes me think a lot of the humans in World of Warcraft!
North Star show off some amazing painting on the Major Demon for Frostgrave. See what you think of it below, an ensorcelled beast that will no doubt be quite the dangerous adversary for your Wizards…
I think the models are looking superb for this game and the paint job here brings the model to a whole new level…
“If the Summon Demon spell is successfully cast, a demon is immediately placed on the table within one inch of the summoner. It may not be placed into combat. The demon is treated as though it is already subject to a Bind Demon spell. The type of demon summoned depends on the amount by which the wizard made his casting roll.”
I know Brigade Games will be distributing the miniatures in the US. I believe a couple of other companies will as well, but that's the one I know for sure.
RobertsMinis wrote: If you ordered from Northstar your order has been sent out, the parcels should/were collected yesterday. I didn't receive mine today though :(
Didn't get mine yet unfortunately either.
Fingers crossed for monday, although I have a massive pile of other stuff to get through so not like I can really get started on it yet anyway!
joe5mc wrote: I know Brigade Games will be distributing the miniatures in the US. I believe a couple of other companies will as well, but that's the one I know for sure.
Thank you. I think this game has huge potential and would like to see the US market well supported with official miniatures. Does Brigade Games wholesale to shops? I'd prefer to order through my FLGS as I don't play at home and use their terrain and tables.
$13 for the rules at Amazon and I'd be a sucker not to grab them if for nothing else than a read. Kind of silly that the Kindle version is only a buck cheaper.
Posted this down in the misc forum. Please share know how you plan to build your warbands and what models you plan on using (if you have ideas already, obviously the book probably isn't in hand yet) thought it would make for interesting discussion.
Woohoo. Ready to pick this up and open a new avenue of nerd games.
Now the question is...do I use WHFB minis on a summer board with trees and some of the existing fantasy terrain I have ( looks really nice as a fantasy table), or do I stay true to the fluff and start a frozen city table?
Yep. I'm also sticking with what I have. Luckily, much of it is Dwarven Forge tiles, which have a cold, rock look to them. Could just be a spring thaw on my board?
And me mistakenly assuming it was still an actual Kickstarter led me to wait for a retail release. I didn't realise until two days after it finished when I saw an article in a mag.
What's everyone's favourite cheap, nice-looking snow effect for bases and terrain? Is equal parts PVA, cheap white acrylic, and baking soda still the preferred option?
Book seems very nice, well illustrated and laid out and I think a bargain for the price, hardback or no.
Metal sculpts are well done (although, not sure what I'm now meant to do with the ten sets! Give some of them away to get other people into the game perhaps?) But for me the real jewel in amongst this lot is the plastic boxset. Really nice detail and a lot of customisation options, reckon they will probably mix in well with some of the Fireforge men-at-arms and Crusader kits. Not sure about Perry as those are the Frostgrave miniatures are more heroically proportioned, but will give them a try.
notprop wrote: And me mistakenly assuming it was still an actual Kickstarter led me to wait for a retail release. I didn't realise until two days after it finished when I saw an article in a mag.
Man, what a doofus I feel!
That's kind of their fault though, due to the stupid name !
Yeah yeah that plastic boxset is what I'm after. I'm not that fussed by most of the Wizard sculpts, though they would have been nice to get on the cheap. I find allot of them a bit plain for what should be a centrepiece model, but that's something that's easy to fix.
One thing that caught my eye were some skeletons used in some of the WI article and possibly WS&S too. Were there any Skellies in the Nickstarter?
Surprisingly I got my stuff this morning, didn't think there was post today due to 12th holidays.
Book is lovely, models are lovely... If I had of known the major demon was resin I'd have bought another couple. It's a sunny day, so will probably sit in the sun and clean up the metals.
notprop wrote: Yeah yeah that plastic boxset is what I'm after. I'm not that fussed by most of the Wizard sculpts, though they would have been nice to get on the cheap. I find allot of them a bit plain for what should be a centrepiece model, but that's something that's easy to fix.
One thing that caught my eye were some skeletons used in some of the WI article and possibly WS&S too. Were there any Skellies in the Nickstarter?
They are selling skellies and zombies but they are mantics range.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RobertsMinis wrote: Surprisingly I got my stuff this morning, didn't think there was post today due to 12th holidays.
Book is lovely, models are lovely... If I had of known the major demon was resin I'd have bought another couple. It's a sunny day, so will probably sit in the sun and clean up the metals.
notprop wrote: Yeah yeah that plastic boxset is what I'm after. I'm not that fussed by most of the Wizard sculpts, though they would have been nice to get on the cheap. I find allot of them a bit plain for what should be a centrepiece model, but that's something that's easy to fix.
One thing that caught my eye were some skeletons used in some of the WI article and possibly WS&S too. Were there any Skellies in the Nickstarter?
They are selling skellies and zombies but they are mantics range.
Alex C wrote: So does the Frostgrave book allow for non-Human warbands?
If not, are they planned for future release?
There are no explicit rules for non-human warbands. The rules are generic and non-specific enough that one you can use just about any miniatures you want. I'd like to see how non human warbands would be handled but with the simplicity of the stat lines how would you differentiate a elf archer from a human archer?
There are stats for monsters, but no gold values to make them into a warband.
My wife and I are intending to use non-humans in our warbands, I was just curious if it had different stats for various races or if an archer is just an archer, no matter the race.
How are the monsters introduced to the playing area? Summons? Random events?
Yes it's a random event, roll on a table when someone picks up an objective on a 16+ monsters turn up (I think, book is not to hand).
You then have to roll on a table to determine which roving mobs turn up, anything from a small group of zombies or skeletons, to a 'snow ape'
Non-humans are fine, the blurb in the book says that the writer wanted the players to be able to use their existing collections, no matter what they might be.
Isn't there an expansion book out this year. I think the author said in WI there are three books ready in the pipeline. Sooner or later I'm guess one will be for non-humans.
Some consideration for your opponents is always important, regardless of what the rulebook says
It's alright. His Germans and my Fungi are going to have to fight no matter what, it's just a matter of determining which ruleset the clash eventually ends up in.
notprop wrote: Yeah yeah that plastic boxset is what I'm after. I'm not that fussed by most of the Wizard sculpts, though they would have been nice to get on the cheap. I find allot of them a bit plain for what should be a centrepiece model, but that's something that's easy to fix.
One thing that caught my eye were some skeletons used in some of the WI article and possibly WS&S too. Were there any Skellies in the Nickstarter?
notprop wrote: Isn't there an expansion book out this year. I think the author said in WI there are three books ready in the pipeline. Sooner or later I'm guess one will be for non-humans.
The expansion book is called thaw of the lich lord and is due out in November.
@ Albino Squirrel - Cheers mate, i'll check them out.
I meant to add, for whomever it was asking about snow effects.
Snow flocks aside I would suggest brilliant white tile adhesive/grout. It's ultra fine so works well as snow at scale, easy to work with (dilute with white glue and/or water) and won't discolour over time. It takes paint well, indeed you can mix paint into it with no problems (I usually mix brown in for FoW bases), though you don't necessarily need it as its already white obviously. Finally it dries hard so very resistant to gaming. I got my last pot in a Poundland, so a ready mixed tub for £1!
Also I would suggest Vallejo pumice. I found this one by accident but it makes a good slushy snow when dry without the need for paint - see some test pieces I did on a FoW base here (incidentally the mud on the base is also tiling grout + Paint );
I've tried a variety of specific snow basing flock, none of it ever looks particularly like real 'snow' (more like they are standing in sugar in some kind of a Grimm Brothers fantasy nightmare!)
Just putting my first warband now (although haven't decided on a magic school yet), hopefully get the first game in over the next week.
I see the regular retail sales are up on the North Star website, but they are not available yet on the Brigade Games website. Guess that's what I get for dragging my feet and not buying into the Nickstarter...
Amazon.com also doesn't seem to be preparing any orders to ship... so you're not the only one stuck waiting. :-p
That said, thanks to Amazon's pricing I plan to buy the digital and physical editions, for less than I have spent on some really abysmal games from supposedly top-tier studios. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Amazon.com also doesn't seem to be preparing any orders to ship... so you're not the only one stuck waiting. :-p
My preorder of the rulebook from Amazon still says guaranteed delivery by Tuesday, July 21st so here's hoping.
notprop wrote: WAyland told me Frostgrave is available from the 20th July. Not long either way.
I hope that's true. The Brigade website has a statement that they would be available for pre-order in a couple days. I'm worried it will be the end of the month or later before we can actually get our hands on the retail minis.
All I know is my book is scheduled to arrive tomorrow, and I'm eagerly anticipating it!
Might grab one of those Ophidian Gateways for my Sigmarines and Mushrooms to fight over this weekend, since my family should all be getting together for dinner.
Still waiting on my book from Brigade. If I'd have known it would take basically until retail release to get it, I'd have ordered direct from the Nickstarter. Price was about the same.
Brigade had some of their parcels held by the lost for inspection but they have recently received them. I hope it is no later than a couple of more days since they were at historicon
And it was back on the website last night. I bought it post haste. It is well laid out, easy to read even as a pdf (thanks for doing a single column of text, editor!)
I was a bit disappointed to see the list of soldiers. It is a bit restrictive, but I'm sure expansions will give us more options so we can use a broader range of miniatures.
cerealkiller195 wrote: Brigade had some of their parcels held by the lost for inspection but they have recently received them. I hope it is no later than a couple of more days since they were at historicon
Sigh. Really starting to wish I'd just jointed the Nickstarter with North Star. I'd have taken a hit for shipping but at least I'd have the miniatures.
The rules remind me a lot of Mordheim. Is it just me? Don't get me wrong, the use of a d20 is refreshing and the magic spells are a very welcome addition.
I'm thinking I'll use a bunch of Deadzone and Mars Attacks terrain materials to make a nice and ruined townscape.
Looking at those latest Renedra ruins makes me wish Mantic would hurry up and do some medieval battlezones and their rumored Fantasy Deadzone.
I'm liking the really trimmed down unit size. Since size/ races doesn't seem to have much impact (from what I've read at least), I'll be putting together a few warbands to try it out this weekend hopefully.
Got mine yesterday, and very impressed with the book! Nice quality hardback, good paper, lots of nice artwork. The layout isn't so great, but eh, I've been gaming for 30+ years and have gotten used to having no intuition on where things will actually be. That said, and index would have been smart, and possibly a quick reference sheet. Using a bold font to make the rules segments pop out would have helped too, and sometimes rules are sort of buried at the bottom of a section that didn't really seem to be relevant. It took me a while to find out whether Wizards can wear armor or not, for example, or how much non-magical weapons cost.
All in all though, very nice. I kind of like how only the Wizard and to a lesser extent the apprentice matter, the rest being largely expendables you don't even want to name for fear of attachment. I also really like how the rules are meant for a campaign, and the bases/improvements etc really flesh out the "out of game" game.
I kind of wish they had mentioned basing guidelines, given that all the models they show just use the built in foot bases apparently, but eh, it isn't that big of a deal to just say 'what ever base the model happens to be on is the right one.'
All in all, excited to throw some models on the table and give it a try!
Totally glad I just pre-ordered through Amazon. I kind of wanted the box of plastics, but the huge piles of models I never get to use held me back. Thank you, giant pile of models, thank you.
Alpharius wrote: I ordered through Brigade Games too - I've sent them a message asking for a shipping estimate/update.
I'll let you all know what I find out.
I sent one too.
First time ordering through them, currently not impressed.
they'll have been at the mercy of customs (and shipping companies) so it's not surprising they're behind Northstar in terms of getting stuff out, especially as Northstar seemed to start shipping virtually the day the books came off the press
Most of the discussion seems positive, but one odd thing that I didn't pick up from skimming the rules is the lack of a balancing mechanism. Seems it's not too hard for runaway power creep, as some wizards get lucky (or have talented players, naturally).
I've attempted to join the forum, just to get in the discussion, but you have to be "reviewed" by a moderator, and 24 hours later, I'm not yet deemed appropriate to get a membership. Sigh.
I don't see any balancing mechanism either. This has the potential to go exactly like Mordheim. Win 2 games in a row and the power level is just too different.
Alex C wrote: Got a reply from Brigade, apparently they had everything but the tokens ready to ship and only just got the tokens. Mine should ship tomorrow. Yay!
I got the same message - apparently it is a good idea to ask them "what's going on?" if you haven't heard anything yet!
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I don't see any balancing mechanism either. This has the potential to go exactly like Mordheim. Win 2 games in a row and the power level is just too different.
From my reading of the rules (although I haven't played any games yet) there isn't the room for 'expansion' of experience and money that Mordheim had. That game was extremely open ended (deliberately so) and required moderation on behalf of the players. With Frostgrave you're limited to your 10 unit warband, and the + experience wizards don't seem that much more effective than the beginner ones. And knights can still be one-hit killed by thugs if you play with the optional critical rule.
So, it's still not going to be an 'Infinity' or 'Warmachine' in terms of balance and efficacy for tournament play, but in terms of degrees of balance it seems more so than Mordheim for now, at least until the expansions come along. You could also argue that it was never intended to be that kind of game, the whole thing seems really old-school 70's fantasy concepts and D&D (a good thing or not, depending on your tastes!)
For those worried about balance, could you please post a definition of balance? It is difficult to discuss without knowing what you mean. Posts so far seem concerned about fairness rather than balance. And what is meant by "balancing mechanism"?
I wouldn't worry too much about "balance" in a game where, outside of your Wiz/Apprentice, hirelings are so expendable. And, honestly, even your level-progression on your Wizard only modestly increases your likelihood of casting a given spell, etc...
In practical terms, I still believe someone would have to run away with a hell of a lot of wins in a row before the disparity between players became insurmountable.
In other news... did you guys see that Amazon.com has put up the 2nd Frost Grave book for pre-order, and even has cover-art, and a proper description of its contents?
I think the concern around balancing mechanism Mathieu Raymond brought up is in the campaign, and what balances games where one player has won two or more in a row, leaving him with a higher level wizard, more magic, etc.
To answer Mathieu, from reading it it does not seem to have as much run away power potential for the following reasons:
1. Only wizards (and by extension, apprentices) level up at all. Everyone else just dies, gets hurt, or gets a single magical item for a +1-2 somewhere. So only two models get more powerful in absolute terms, the others just get a tiny bonus.
2. Wizards level up based on what they do in game, not based on winning. Near as I can tell, it is perfectly reasonable for both to level up the same number of times per game, or even have the loser level up more.
So, wizards get xp for casting a spell correctly, personally dropping an enemy warrior, apprentice or wizard, a chunk for each treasure you get off the map, and then some scenarios have some options. So there is no bonus for winning
3. Getting gold and magic items is a function of getting treasure tokens off the map, and winning is usually a matter of who gets the most.
What this boils down to is that there is not a lot of benefit to 'winning' other than you got at least 1 more treasure off the map. It is possible to win and get relatively little xp because your wizard didn't do much personally. It is also possible to have a REALLY Pyrrhic victory, as dead soliders get a bit pricey (and take their items to the underworld with them) and a dead apprentice will set you back nearly the starting value of a warband pretty easily if you replace him. Plus if your wizard or apprentice gets taken out, there is a ~45% chance they will get an injury, either permanent or that will take them out of the next game (or kill them). So personally killing enemies (big source of xp) runs a good chance of getting your unarmored wizard killed off.
So doing better than your opponent is better, but like hemophiliacs in a knife fight it is entirely possible to win and be far worse off than when you started. Likewise, a loss could actually be pretty profitable if your wizard/apprentice carefully is picking off enemy warriors at little loss to yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, one other thing I forgot: even though you can level up multiple times after a game, you can only boost a stat or make a spell easier to cast once per stat or spell. So after two highly successful games, your caster will still have +2 max in Fight, for example, or -2 to the number needed to cast a spell. So a 10% change in effectiveness, which isn't bad, but not crazy either.
Right, there is not really a binary win/lose end condition. Wizards gain XP based on what they and their minions accomplish during a session.
It takes 100 XP to gain a level. For reference, you get differing amounts of XP (seemingly) based on the difficulty of the task. Casting a spell successfully (wizard or apprentice) nets a wizard 10 XP. Killing an enemy wizard nets 150 XP.
Once a wizard levels up he can do ONE of the following:
- improve Fight, Shoot, Will, or Health by 1 (to a maximum and only once between games regardless of how many levels the wizard gained) - improve a known spell by lowering the casting number by 1 to a minimum of 5 (which similarly may only be done once between games) - learn a new spell ... provided the wizard already possesses the spell (as an item, a grimoire)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: did you guys see that Amazon.com has put up the 2nd Frost Grave book for pre-order, and even has cover-art, and a proper description of its contents?
Yep pre-ordered last week! Although it could have been up for much longer; Osprey is quite good about getting this info to Amazon.
Although it's worth noting that in a campaign it's reasonably easy to get an extra 70XP every game (Wizards Lab base and the Absorb Knowledge spell).. and I guess that's somewhat significant when each level is only 100XP.
Yup, very much like Mordheim/Necromunda, only the Wizard and his conjoined apprentice are the only ones that gain XP and levels. The rest are just expendable mens.
Yea, and it seems like most of the run-away power gaps go away due to that as well. In... one of the other threads we were talking about that. Basically winning doesn't get you anything in and of itself, other than at least one more treasure and 50 xp (half a level) than your opponent. All the XP comes from in game stuff, so the loser can come out ahead in many respects, and the power curve is fairly flat. At least at first glance; I haven't gotten a campaign in.
I don't think "winning" and "losing" are even things in Frostgrave.
Each game in a campaign is an episode of a larger story. Things happen, to the greater or lesser benefit of each player depending on her choices and the luck of the roll.
I don't really see a problem with power disparity myself... In a campaign-focused skirmish game you are playing for the narrative, not to have perfectly balanced battles. In fact, I'd consider it a failure if a guy who has won 20 battles didn't get a huge advantage over someone who has won 3. In Necromunda there is no balancing mechanism in battles, but instead a catch-up mechanic that makes lower level gangs gain more gold and xp. This is my preferred solution, and since the scenarios are usually asymmetrical, in no way does it mean that the higher level gang always wins.
Wehrkind wrote: Yup, very much like Mordheim/Necromunda, only the Wizard and his conjoined apprentice are the only ones that gain XP and levels. The rest are just expendable mens.
Maybe like Mordheim, but in Necro everyone advances in the same way.
What is the ultimate campaign goal when playing Frostgrave with others? How is a winner determined? Via the most powerful wizard? Or the one that lives the longest?
BrookM wrote: What is the ultimate campaign goal when playing Frostgrave with others? How is a winner determined? Via the most powerful wizard? Or the one that lives the longest?
There is no real "end game" you are working towards, so it really is just whoever's wizard gets to be the most powerful. Or as you said, the last one standing. I guess after your wizard was so powerful you would just start a new one, like how in Necromunda you would disband a gang if it got to be so powerful it wasn't fun any longer.
Now, the expansion (Thaw of the liche lord) looks like it is going to be a campaign with a "boss fight" and therefor an end to the campaign. That is based off what I've seen in the product description anyways.
I guess it'll also come down to how each player plays the game. I have a friend who, no matter what the mission is, only cares about killing as many enemies as possible. Even if it means he "loses." With the cost of hirelings, this could get messy, still.
And it's only a nitpick, but at 500gc, you'll never get full warbands of men-at-arms like you see in the pictures. It's just way too expensive. We'll see. I'm actually stoked about a fantasy game, that is quite something. Even bought clay to make ruins. Yeah baby.
Keep in mind you start with 500GC. The whole point of the setting is that your wizard is raiding the ruins of this city for treasure. In every scenario, you are trying to get more coin to replenish losses, expand your base, increase your personal power, and of course gain more minions!
I created this little FROSTGRAVE army builder / creator until someone comes along with something professional looking.
It is in Google Docs. Before using it you will have to go to the file menu and choose "make a copy" (for yourself).
I hope someone finds it useful! Let me know if you find any problems with it! At least I hope this will make your Frostgrave warband creation easier until some professional builder comes along...
The rules are simple, it sounds like fun. We're having a go at it next Tuesday night. Iron Bovin will probably find a way to say it is broken, and I think he won't like the predictability of the back and forth nature of the turn sequence... but I'm getting old, I just wanna play a fun game.
Manchu wrote: I don't think "winning" and "losing" are even things in Frostgrave.
Each game in a campaign is an episode of a larger story. Things happen, to the greater or lesser benefit of each player depending on her choices and the luck of the roll.
Indeed!
This may be even more evident/prevalent in the next book!
Thaw of the Lich Lord is a complete campaign for Frostgrave that will challenge both new and veteran players. Through a series of linked scenarios, players discover the existence of a new power in the Frozen City, one who was old when the great city was still young, and who saw both its rise and its disastrous fall. Warbands will confront the Lich Lord's minions, race against his agents to seize possession of mysterious artefacts, and brave the perils of Frostgrave in search of his lair. Eventually, they will need to muster all their courage to venture into the depths of the city and face the Lich Lord himself.
Not all wizards will seek to stop the Lich Lord, however, and full rules for giving into his corruption and following the dark road to becoming an undead lich are presented for those who crave power and immortality above all else. While the campaign presents many new threats against which wizards and their warbands must test themselves, including an expanded bestiary, it also offers additional resources, such as new henchmen that can be recruited and unique magical treasures that can spell the difference between survival and oblivion.
Just been and picked up the book, two boxes of the plastic soldiers, and the "Undead Encounter" set (they may be just Mantic undead by any other name but I'm sure I can find a use for them). I've also been thinking of getting some Stormcast Eternals, painting them to look like stone statues, and using them as Constructs. Need to get some wolves, rats, etc...
The soldier box is probably my favourite part of the release. Even if I hadn't been interested in the game, I'd still have bought some of them - so much potential for use in any number of games.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I don't see any balancing mechanism either. This has the potential to go exactly like Mordheim. Win 2 games in a row and the power level is just too different.
Having played in multiple Mordheim and Necromunda campaigns, I can understand your concern. However, Frostgrave is a different animal. Only your Wizard (and Apprentice) "level up". The stat increases are pretty minor and there's limits as to how many items you can have. Even if you lose a few games, as long as you were "doing stuff" during the game, you will still not really be far behind. I think this game is awesome. I bought from Amazon and got it in 2 days. The book is gorgeous, as one would expect from Osprey.
So, there are definitely wins and losses in Frostgrave, even in campaign games. It is generally defined by scenario, or the "standard" scenario is just whomever gets the most treasure.
That said, winning doesn't get you anything extra, save for the extra treasure, or some little nugget based on the scenario.
For winning the campaign, general rule is winner has the most loot at the end of all the games you want to play (get rich or die trying) or the optional "Transcendence" rule, where once your caster learns every spell in his main school, he can attempt to find a grimoire of "Transcendence" and after every game once he learns it can try to cast it, needing a 20. If he does, he goes to heaven or whatever and wins sorta. Retires to the wonder spot in the sky. You can then advance your apprentice if you want to play, or say that ends the campaign.
The "has the most treasure" thing feels like a band-aid, like McCullough just knew some people always need a way to "win" (I have seen this issue many times when playing RPGs) and to make one-off games seem meaningful somehow even though Frostgate is clearly designed for campaign play. The published scenarios do not have specific win conditions. As far I can tell, "winning" a game (via collecting the most treasure) does not get you anything more than the XP you would normally get for the treasure you collected. Transcendence is explicitly an optional rule for players who want a specific campaign win condition, implying that campaigns do not generally need win conditions. Seems like you can mod Frostgate into something where "winning" is meaningful but that is not standard. Standard play seems more like a RPG, where the campaign goes on for as long as the players are interested/there is a story unfolding.
Well, even RPGs have win conditions, just that they are collectively achieved and not individually (generally). Unless you are playing the Sims, there are enemies you fight, schemes you thwart, etc. the whole point being some sort of accomplishment and feed back on success to make the risk of failure sting.
In a competitive game like Frostgrave there has to be something to define who won the competition, even if it is relatively meaningless like crossing the finish line first in a race. That definition of winning is why it is a race, not a jog.
Honestly, there does not need to be any win condition in Frostgrave. You can play competitively (i.e., trying to grab the most treasure) without needing to "win" the game. You want the most treasure because it lets you do more going forward, not only or even necessarily at all because it means you "beat" someone else.
Manchu wrote: Sims? I am talking about table top RPGs.
Honestly, there does not need to be any win condition in Frostgrave. You can play competitively (i.e., trying to grab the most treasure) without needing to "win" the game. You want the most treasure because it lets you do more going forward, not only or even necessarily at all because it means you "beat" someone else.
So am I; the difference between different types of RPG (computer or table top) played with others are vanishingly small when it comes to this sort of deal.
If you are playing without a scenario, and outside a campaign, treasure is just the method of keeping score to see who won. If there is a scenario, sometimes there are other win conditions. Is more treasure its own reward in campaigns? Yea, pretty much. But even then, unless you intend to just play forever, which you can do, many people want some sort of finish line to denote "Ok, campaign is over" as well as produce some sort of scarcity in the game. Otherwise you just purchase everything there is and run out of things to do. Having a set number of matches, and then defining the winner as having the most gold at the end, or the most wins, or most tricked out base works, or going by who has the most wins out of those matches works, or any number of other things. You pretty much need something, however, otherwise your out of game decisions become less interesting because the choices are less meaningful.
As a side note, "competitive" is meaningless without "winning". Even if the win condition is relatively arbitrary like "most points after 30 minutes" when you could play for an hour, or "first to get X" when people are going to get X, then Y, then Z, it doesn't mean there is not a win condition, just that it is nested within the larger game (and perhaps other conditions.) There is no competitive without winning and losing however. A race is competitive because there is a goal you are competing to achieve, first across the line in this case. Going for a jog with your friends is not competitive, just a fun activity, because you don't "win" the jog.
I think you are being unnecessarily literal as to the concept of competitive play; in effect, simply explaining away how D&D, other table top games, and seemingly Frostgrave actually play. In any given Frostgrave scenario, there is a finite amount of resources to be collected and there are risks in collecting it. If you end up with more resources than your opponent you have indeed "won" but only in the exact sense of collecting X amount more than he did. There is nothing at all over and above whatever the difference between how much you collected and how much he collected to give the concept of winning any meaning or value. (Indeed, in a game that leans on luck as much as Frostgrave you have not even necessarily demonstrated that you are better at Frostgrave than your opponent by this kind of "win.") I suppose you could say that any resource you collect is a resource denied to the opponent but that is also meaningless without the additional consideration of what you lost doing it. If your warband ends up in the red after such a "victory" while the "loser" has a net positive result, what does your triumph actually profit you? Nothing whatsoever unless your group makes up a houserule that this otherwise empty notion of winning has some kind of significance to the game. Because that rule is certainly not found in the rulebook. And yet even so, players will nonetheless do their best to collect the most treasure and XP without taking such terrible risks to end up at a loss, which by definition means competing against opposing players ... although it could also mean, in certain circumstances, cooperating with them.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I know someone in my household who will be both happy to have those in our house, and quite upset at the type of magic being used.
I will be expected to paint them no less, and probably to a decent quality. Ugh.
Replace every instance of "fire" with "ice" and paint to taste. Done.
Yeah, they even suggest making them Ice Elementalists on the store page. I think they're just trying to obscure it a little to try to avoid the attention of Disney's lawyers.
Call it my need to know, but what tokens are necessary for this game? I haven't seen anything, aside from possible curses, or the optional rules for wounded.
There's also Explosive Rune to keep track of, (a Sigilist spell that lets you lay up to three proximity mines), a 3" diameter template would be handy for Grenade... Wizard Eye... Planar Rift? Mud? Several spells benefit from tokens or templates. Though equally it's entirely possible to pick a build that doesn't need any
Are there any rules for mounted units planned? Yes its supposed to be crowded alleys filled with rubble, but ...Mordheim had them!
What about weather and terrain specific effects too? I watched a game being played and it kind of puzzled me that given that its set in a frozen city there aren't optional rules for cold weather or collapsing buildings. Of course the game's meant to be simple, but has anything like this been mentioned for expansions?
I could see them adding weather effects in a later expansion, kind of like how Ganesha Games did with Song of Blades and Heroes. Actually... you could probably just adapt their weather expansion to play along with Frostgrave.
Wyrmalla wrote: Are there any rules for mounted units planned? Yes its supposed to be crowded alleys filled with rubble, but ...Mordheim had them!
What about weather and terrain specific effects too? I watched a game being played and it kind of puzzled me that given that its set in a frozen city there aren't optional rules for cold weather or collapsing buildings. Of course the game's meant to be simple, but has anything like this been mentioned for expansions?
I don't think there is anything as yet, but hey if the game proves popular enough for more expansions, and the chap that wrote the rules posts on the forum so why the hell not?
Well I was considering that Crooked Dice released an expansion for their 7Tv system which was literally just all rules for playing games in different environments. Now just the cold weather rules would be fine, but it'd expand the game immensely if other climates were included, though that may break the setting's theme. Saying that a blizzard is much the same as a sandstorm in rules terms. Someone did post elsewhere here of integrating blizzards as a way of cutting game length, by rolling a dice at the end of x number of turns and that causing visibility to deteriorate over time until its so bad that models fall over and need to retreat off the board.
Pacific wrote: That sounds interesting Wyrmalla. Is there any online copy anywhere of how the cold weather rules work?
Of the Crooked Dice ones? Nah you have to buy the book, but they're like a D12 table that you roll every turn to see if anything happens. The effects range from say the temperature going down a notch which means anyone not wearing warm weather clothing loses one point of agility, to blizzards which reduce your line of sight. Ah, but yes besides just the weather table there's specific rules for how terrain pieces work (i.e. areas that count as deep snow or thin ice) and for items of gear and vehicles which are suited to those climates, plus creatures that inhabit the area.
Those are something which I'll probably house rule myself once I have a few games under my belt actually. As I'm making Morrowind themed models for the game I can hardly use the cold weather specific rules for those (without just changing their names).
Quick word of warning about the Lead Adventure Forum - if you do NOT post something within 4 days or so of being approved, your account gets auto-deleted!
Quick word of warning about the Lead Adventure Forum - if you do NOT post something within 4 days or so of being approved, your account gets auto-deleted!
Huh. Well that explains my situation with them, too. What did you do, re-register?
It'll be the same as the first box set, a frame of 5 bodies (not split torsos) with separate heads and weapon arms.
The heads and weapons are all naughty boy type of stuff, trying to look evil, you know what they are like. There are also lots of evil bits, chains and skulls and a vial with something nasty in it etc. This time though there isn't as much arm variant, there are more hand variants. So instead of an arm with a buckler on it, it's just a hand. This requires more modelling that the first set as you'll have to cut a hand off the left arm to glue a different one on.
You will get enough weapons to make two warbands out of the Cultist box set to accompany your evil wizard. But here's the ace thing. All the heads and arms are inter-changeable with box set one. So you can use some of the spare arms from your Soldiers box set to give more variety to your Cultists and vice-versa. We've cut back on packs and ropes etc in the Cultist box set, but you can of course use the ones you have in box set one. Is there any more?
Yes
There are 4 undead heads and 3 sets of Undead arms on the frame as well. With these extra bits, you can turn your plastic Soldier or Cultist into a proper Frostgrave Skeleton or Zombie! We only have the 3ups (figures 3 times 28mm if you didn't know) right now, so we can't show you the figures yet. The release date is the 20th of November 2015. Everything is in place for us to hit that date, but as we don't have the actual plastic frames in our hands right now, I can't give a 'cast iron' promise for that date, I'm sure you understand.
pancakeonions wrote: What's 3up? A figure that's 3 times the scale of 28mm? What's the purpose of that, from a modeler or industry perspective?
Can't wait, very excited. I'll be preordering this from Northstar as well. Keep up the good work!
Traditionally sculpted plastic miniatures are made three times their normal size, then pantographed - scanned in by unidirectional lasers basically, then shrunk down to be previewed in software to check for undercuts/etc, before the steel molds are milled.
pancakeonions wrote: What's 3up? A figure that's 3 times the scale of 28mm? What's the purpose of that, from a modeler or industry perspective?
Can't wait, very excited. I'll be preordering this from Northstar as well. Keep up the good work!
The old way of transferring data from a physical sculpt to a milling machine used to cut a steel mould was by using a pantograph, a mechanical device where you trace over the surface of one object and the motion is followed by a tool to carve out a mould/form usually in a different scale/material
(a very basic example, not of miniature mould making but it give you an idea
sculpting a 3up is both easier (making things bigger is easier for a sculptor) and allows you to capture more detail with the pantograph as you've got more control (£ups were also used for earlier laser scanners as they did not have the resolution to handle 28mm minis, although they now can)
What's their other set like? They only show a picture of the box.
I get really annoyed when companies either have crappy pictures or none at all & think you'll put your cash on the table.
Are there any sprue pics or mini pics of the cultists? The first plastic Frostgrave box looked decent, but didn't exactly knock my socks off for the price...
bubber wrote: What's their other set like? They only show a picture of the box.
I get really annoyed when companies either have crappy pictures or none at all & think you'll put your cash on the table.
Check out page 7 of this thread. There's some good pics of the sprue.
bubber wrote: I get really annoyed when companies either have crappy pictures or none at all & think you'll put your cash on the table.
Chillax. Northstar put out great sprue pics for their first plastic kit and as Nick explained in the Lead Adventure post I quoted the cultist stuff is still in the 3up stage.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The first plastic Frostgrave box looked decent, but didn't exactly knock my socks off for the price...
I was initially underwhelmed as well. But then I started to get into the background and realized the kit was actually perfect. And now that I have a box in front of me ... er, well at my house at least ... I am well pleased indeed.
Wow, that is awesome. Finally someone doing some general scary cultists in plastic. I thought their first box looked good (if a bit cartoony) so, hopefully, this will too.
The art is great!
Out curiosity, what kind of cults are their in Frostgrave? Are they generally centered around wizards or are their god cults and such?
I have not read the short story anthology (but I pre-ordered it because Mat(t) Ward wrote one of the stories). My impression is, however, that these are cultists of the Lich Lord -- primary antagonist of the upcoming campaign.
More nice multi-part and generic baddies is a truly splendid thing!
On a side note, how often do models actually die in Frostgrave? Would it be possible to get two Warbands from a single Soldiers box that has a decent lifespan, or would I end up replacing dead guys with identical minis before long?
I've got Wizards up to my ears but less mercenary types, if I can get a good two bands' worth of Models from a single box I'm very interested.
pancakeonions wrote: What's 3up? A figure that's 3 times the scale of 28mm? What's the purpose of that, from a modeler or industry perspective?
Can't wait, very excited. I'll be preordering this from Northstar as well. Keep up the good work!
I know have already explained this. But if you go to Renedra Ltd's Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/renedralimited), they have videos of the production process from 3Up to production sprue of some Perry Calvary. Renedra are also the company that are making these. Interesting watch.
Paradigm wrote: Would it be possible to get two Warbands from a single Soldiers box that has a decent lifespan?
I plan to build two starting warbands out of one box. I figure I will eventually need another box. Starting warbands can be pretty small because you are limited to 500 gold coins and the meat-and-potatoes soldiers cost about 100 gold coins each. In any event, there is a soft upper limit of 10 in your warband and the box has 20 figs.
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migooo wrote: Just shows you when you are in a certain field you get completely blindsided by stuff like this. Okay ill be getting a box.
Just to be clear, the figs are made by NorthStar. The books are published by Osprey.
I think most people who already have at least some fantasy minis will do fine with just one box, though you will end up re-using minis for casualty replacement to some extent.
Your starting warband will be heavy on stuff like Thieves and Thugs, which most people don't have a load of but which the box does very well for making (though it's versatile enough to make most of the soldier types in the book). When you start to afford better soldiers they will tend to be stuff like Knights, Templars, and Barbarians, which most people have plenty of already (and which the box does slightly less well IMO).
I made my box up for 2 starting warbands as something like 4 thieves, 4 thugs, 6 archers, 5 crossbowmen and one infantryman. But I didn't have that many human archers/crossbows before -- I could probably have filled out the warbands with dwarf crossbows and elf archers if I didn't mind going non-human.
Oh, the only thing it doesn't do is warhounds -- you will often need 1-2 of those per starting warband (cheap and useful addition for slowing down enemy foot troops or harrying archers).
Sounds good! I do have plenty of Wizards, Knights, Paladins, Barbarians and such (and a dog or two for Hounds), so it sounds like I could do alright with one box, then another somewhere down the line (or perhaps just the cultists)...
One thing I noticed from the sprues is that there are no staves in it. Very useful to make a tracker, which is the best combination of thief and archer I can think of.
There could have been a few more polearms too. Maybe this new box will remedy this situation.
I'll be there with my Necromancer and his skelly knights and my buddy Carl will be representing with his Illusionist. Look for the angry looking Scottish fella in the company of a Norfolk gill-man.
I am so excited for the cultists! I think it will be a very popular and useful kit. Only potential downside is it is likely sculpted by Bob Naismith, so it is very unlikely it will have truly stunning sculpts. There is a lot of herpdy-derp going on with the first kit.
I'll be there with my Necromancer and his skelly knights and my buddy Carl will be representing with his Illusionist. Look for the angry looking Scottish fella in the company of a Norfolk gill-man.
That event looks right up my alley. Too bad I'm too valuable for my country to let me leave.
Seems interesting. I look forward to seeing the sprues. And on that note, are there good quality pics of the first box set's sprues floating around anywhere?
Azazelx wrote: Seems interesting. I look forward to seeing the sprues. And on that note, are there good quality pics of the first box set's sprues floating around anywhere?
I found a big one on Pg7 of this thread, but I think it's just a render. Still, it gives a good idea.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Cool. Thanks. Although I really wished they hadn't added a mini plastic base under the feet. Just makes basing that much more awkward.
Im inclined to agree i hate slotterbases miniatures for the same reason.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Cool. Thanks. Although I really wished they hadn't added a mini plastic base under the feet. Just makes basing that much more awkward.
Has this been posted? Image of the Lich from the new expansion.
Edit: and on integral bases. As has been said they're the standard for a lot of companies, which is why North Star went for them. How they're more difficult to base than ones without I have no idea, as its just a case of gluing the model to a base then adding the sand.
I picked up a set of their soldiers. As you can see in the sprue images on the past page they're a bit ...hmn, GW looking? As in quite similar to the style of the Mordheim sprues, particularly with the oversized weapons. Not sure if I'm too happy with those, which I'll probably have to replace with more realistically sized ones myself. I'll probably use them as Nords for my Elder Scrolls stuff, though they'd do for hunters and such types as well I suppose.
Wyrmalla wrote: Edit: and on integral bases. As has been said they're the standard for a lot of companies, which is why North Star went for them. How they're more difficult to base than ones without I have no idea, as its just a case of gluing the model to a base then adding the sand.
True. If you assume everyone bases that way. And I can assure you not everyone does. I think that style basing looks awful, personally.
Think about what it will take to mount the figures on a scenic base and you'll understand why some folks don't like them.
The best solution is a peg on one foot that can be inserted into the base or snipped of as need be. At the very least, removing a slot tab is miles easier than removing an integral base. I honestly don't know why companies cling to the integral base anymore.
Wyrmalla wrote: Edit: and on integral bases. As has been said they're the standard for a lot of companies, which is why North Star went for them. How they're more difficult to base than ones without I have no idea, as its just a case of gluing the model to a base then adding the sand.
True. If you assume everyone bases that way. And I can assure you not everyone does. I think that style basing looks awful, personally.
Think about what it will take to mount the figures on a scenic base and you'll understand why some folks don't like them.
The best solution is a peg on one foot that can be inserted into the base or snipped of as need be. At the very least, removing a slot tab is miles easier than removing an integral base. I honestly don't know why companies cling to the integral base anymore.
Just my two cents.
~Eric
I'm with you there!
I can't stand them either - the do make using custom/scenic bases a bit more work...
Ian Sturrock wrote: Which weapons seemed oversized? The only one I could see on that score was the hand axe, really. The swords looked a bit small, if anything.
Ahem, all of them. Anyone want some paddles? That claymore's ridiculous looking especially. The boys are fine, but everything else is way too wide. Of course put that down to the manufacturing method perhaps requiring them to be a bit thick, but I've seen plenty of other plastic kits which have better proportioned ones. The models in general look quite chunky actually, though its been said elsewhere that that's the sculptor's style. Overall though they look like they'd fit in with Games Workshop's line, which given that those models look like they're stuck in the early nineties, that's not a good thing. =P
On integral bases, I'm not defending them, rather personally I have no problem with them for standard bases with a bit of sand on them. Of course if you have resin ones then there's your issue, though I wouldn't think that there's massive effort in cutting eight models (if that) off of their stands. =/
Ah, the two-handed sword seemed pretty sensible compared to the one on the weapon rack. I think it's intended to be a Landsknecht style one (sometimes called zweihander or bidenhander) -- they could be pretty big -- up to 84" (7 ft.!) apparently.
I agree that they're generally a bit broader than you'd expect in strictly realistic minis, but they fit well with the GW, mantic, and Bones ones I also use for fantasy skirmishing, so I don't really mind. The metal Frostgrave knight's sword is much thicker -- not sure what to do about it really (might bite the bullet and give him the plastic axe instead). Looks like a baseball bat. :(
I'm reminded of a particular Skyrim weapon mod when looking at those. Length, kind of sort of fine, width, eugh...
Though the length's a bit off on them too - look at the one handed axe for example, its more like a two handed one. Though if I start getting pernickity about that then I may as well start picking at the whole models for not having realistic proportions. The silliness of the weapons just jumped at me when I first looked at the sprue out of the box though and its a tad glaring when you match them out with other miniature lines unfortunately. ...Though if people are using chunky 80s looking models besides these then they'll be fine. I personally find that style makes them look a bit cheap though (which is ironic given how GW charge for their blocky models).
Edit: heh and how the hell is a person supposed to fit their hand around that ricasso (leather bit above the guard on the blade) on that two handed sword? Its like twice the width of a hand. Oh god I am not getting involved in another discussion in News and Rumours about designers who don't have a clue about what parts of a weapon are actually for (its that rifle with the inappropriate bullpup stock all over again).
Ian Sturrock wrote: Which weapons seemed oversized? The only one I could see on that score was the hand axe, really. The swords looked a bit small, if anything.
Ahem, all of them. Anyone want some paddles? That claymore's ridiculous looking especially. The boys are fine, but everything else is way too wide. Of course put that down to the manufacturing method perhaps requiring them to be a bit thick, but I've seen plenty of other plastic kits which have better proportioned ones. The models in general look quite chunky actually, though its been said elsewhere that that's the sculptor's style. Overall though they look like they'd fit in with Games Workshop's line, which given that those models look like they're stuck in the early nineties, that's not a good thing. =P
On integral bases, I'm not defending them, rather personally I have no problem with them for standard bases with a bit of sand on them. Of course if you have resin ones then there's your issue, though I wouldn't think that there's massive effort in cutting eight models (if that) off of their stands. =/
The weapon size and figure styling issue is all down to the sculptor chosen.
It's not necessarily that removing 8 or 10 figures from integral bases is too much work. It's that it's entirety unnecessary work. New ideas for dealing with the problem have arisen and manufacturers are way too adverse to change. Also, Wargamers as a whole seem to be too afraid to criticize anything, and are way too accepting of "good enough". Which is why we have the basing issue and you have the figure issues...
Until those things change, we'll still have these problems.
I really like the Frostgrave game, but I'll likely never touch one of the official figures.
On the upside, the makers of the game really don't mind which figures you uses (even on the Frostgrave Day coming up in November). I find that kind of refreshing.
I'm really liking the minis I put together, but as I said elsewhere, I've assembled the soldier box mostly as archers, crossbowmen (and crossbow-women -- thank you, Statuesque Heroic Female Heads), thugs, and thieves, which avoids the big two-handed weapons entirely. My son gave one of his soldiers the zweihander, though, and it seems to look fine on the table, as far as I can see.
Wyrmalla wrote: Has this been posted? Image of the Lich from the new expansion.
Edit: and on integral bases. As has been said they're the standard for a lot of companies, which is why North Star went for them. How they're more difficult to base than ones without I have no idea, as its just a case of gluing the model to a base then adding the sand.
I picked up a set of their soldiers. As you can see in the sprue images on the past page they're a bit ...hmn, GW looking? As in quite similar to the style of the Mordheim sprues, particularly with the oversized weapons. Not sure if I'm too happy with those, which I'll probably have to replace with more realistically sized ones myself. I'll probably use them as Nords for my Elder Scrolls stuff, though they'd do for hunters and such types as well I suppose.
fnureddstdjhn
oh im sorry i really like this mini id have to buy an entire game though right?
No you can buy all of the Frostgrave miniatures individually or in sets of two on their site. At the moment however that particular model hasn't been released, but will be some time in November.
Pondering a bit here, but I wonder if the game will ever be expanded to included leaders other than Wizards? The Lich Lord is one example, so are the Demons planned for a future release. The Demon in particular has been described as a either being a magic heavy user or only having a handful of spells. On that note then perhaps regular soldier captains or mercenaries would be a possibility? Instead of spells they could have orders or bits of wargear to use. So functionally the same as Wizards, or rather with more of an emphasis on personal ability rather than magic, but with a different style.
I donno. It perhaps takes the game away from its emphasis on magic, but then again the number of wizards in the world are few, but there's plenty of regular folks and petty nobility out there looking to make a buck. It maybe something which would have to be done via proxying a captain as a wizard and just changing the names of spells, though I would be interested in seeing something like that come out as an expansion eventually (possibly included along with a general addon to the soldiers for classes like assassins or merchants-who'd boost your gold intake outside of games, etc).
It's not necessarily that removing 8 or 10 figures from integral bases is too much work. It's that it's entirety unnecessary work. New ideas for dealing with the problem have arisen and manufacturers are way too adverse to change. Also, Wargamers as a whole seem to be too afraid to criticize anything, and are way too accepting of "good enough". Which is why we have the basing issue and you have the figure issues...
Except I prefer integral bases. I hate hate HATE tiny connection points - one or two soles of boots at most for figures, and I despise the "this guy weights 1000 lbs so has sunken into the earth" effect that happens when you base around a model's foot.
I also prefer chunky models, ala the Warhammer aesthetic, and these Frostgrave models are _infinitely_ better than any GW human infantry models on the market, so I'm quite pleased with them and are an excellent price.
That being said, my actual Frostgrave warband will probably be Mierce minis.
It's not necessarily that removing 8 or 10 figures from integral bases is too much work. It's that it's entirety unnecessary work. New ideas for dealing with the problem have arisen and manufacturers are way too adverse to change. Also, Wargamers as a whole seem to be too afraid to criticize anything, and are way too accepting of "good enough". Which is why we have the basing issue and you have the figure issues...
Except I prefer integral bases. I hate hate HATE tiny connection points - one or two soles of boots at most for figures, and I despise the "this guy weights 1000 lbs so has sunken into the earth" effect that happens when you base around a model's foot.
The connection point, especially on polystyrene models, could easily be made to fit onto a hole on a base, effectively making it an integral base. Then you could base as normal. As for the "1000 lbs...sunken into the earth" look, you still get it when you have an integral base. Worse, from what I see on the net.
I also prefer chunky models, ala the Warhammer aesthetic, and these Frostgrave models are _infinitely_ better than any GW human infantry models on the market, so I'm quite pleased with them and are an excellent price.
In my opinion, these are _infinitely_ worse than anything GW human infantry models on the market. And I don't particularly like those. These are guys in rags, hobos, right down to the shopping bags wrapped around their feet. The GW figures at least don't look like homeless people. Except the ones that look like that by design, that is. Lol.
That being said, my actual Frostgrave warband will probably be Mierce minis.
And that says _infinitely_ more than anything else you've written here. Including making me think that this entire post is just an attempt to start an argument.
Taarnak wrote: The connection point, especially on polystyrene models, could easily be made to fit onto a hole on a base, effectively making it an integral base. Then you could base as normal. As for the "1000 lbs...sunken into the earth" look, you still get it when you have an integral base. Worse, from what I see on the net.
Not understanding this. You mean a separate base that then gets glued onto a 1mm thick renedra-style base? Or you mean the thick pedestals of GW/PP/etc with holes molded into them? Which also are awful. That's the worst solution ever.
Taarnak wrote: In my opinion, these are _infinitely_ worse than anything GW human infantry models on the market. And I don't particularly like those. These are guys in rags, hobos, right down to the shopping bags wrapped around their feet. The GW figures at least don't look like homeless people. Except the ones that look like that by design, that is. Lol.
Whew, I mean, the Free Company are still pretty good, but every other human model, especially the Empire monkey soldiers, are terrrriiibbbllleeee.
These guys look like they're mercenaries in a cold environment. Two thumbs up. Now, Empire State troops can't be bothered to wear boots, so they actually ARE hobos. Well, I guess weird neanderthal infantry can hit someone with a halberd but doesn't perhaps understand the benefit of footwear.
Taarnak wrote: And that says _infinitely_ more than anything else you've written here. Including making me think that this entire post is just an attempt to start an argument.
No, I appreciate quality and have spent several thousand bucks of Mierce miniatures. But when it comes to plastic infantry, integral bases is just straight up superior. Much greater surface area for plastic-to-plastic-glue-to-plastic Renedra base or, especially, plastic-to-superglue-to-mdf bases. As someone who routinely assembles and paints armies of hundreds of guys, not having integral bases would make projects take an order of magnitude longer to complete.
But when it comes to plastic infantry, integral bases is just straight up superior. Much greater surface area for plastic-to-plastic-glue-to-plastic Renedra base or, especially, plastic-to-superglue-to-mdf bases.
As always, and this should be obvious, the above is the opinion of judgedoug - and it doesn't necessarily have to be 'your' opinion too!
I've just ordered some Arthurian Hooded Pict heads from West Wind over at FRPGames to mix up into my plastic Frostgrave models. I'm curious to see if anyone has tried mixing some Gripping Beast, Fireforge, GW, or other miniature lines into the set for variety. Seems like the GW bits market has really dried up for Fantasy...
-iPaint- wrote: I've just ordered some Arthurian Hooded Pict heads from West Wind over at FRPGames to mix up into my plastic Frostgrave models. I'm curious to see if anyone has tried mixing some Gripping Beast, Fireforge, GW, or other miniature lines into the set for variety. Seems like the GW bits market has really dried up for Fantasy...
~iPaint
If you go check on LAF a guy called Captain Blood has some mixed with bits on his Westeros thread in the fantasy section.
Mymearan wrote: Wait, you hate basing around a models feet, but prefer integral bases... How do you base a model with an integral base without basing around his feet?
This.
Integral bases are the absolute worst with regards to different basing possibilities. Even slottabase inserts are comparatively easy to cut off if one wants to put the model on a scenic base.
The best solution is to extend a pip from one or more of the ground contact points. Very easy to cut off and can be kept for increased contact strength by drilling a hole in any base one wants to use.
Dreamforge has gotten it right but suprisingly few others. (Valkir sprues in spoiler)
I dislike integrated bases too, but I do wish that more companies would just extend the bottom of the foot down a mm or a half to avoid the sinking look when adding flock. Granted, people DO sink down into grass and dirt a bit, making it hard to see the soles of early era boots, but still I find myself adding little tiny bits of expired credit card under the feet of many models so their little piggies can be seen properly. I could do without that.
Zywus wrote: Integral bases are the absolute worst with regards to different basing possibilities. Even slottabase inserts are comparatively easy to cut off if one wants to put the model on a scenic base.
The best solution is to extend a pip from one or more of the ground contact points. Very easy to cut off and can be kept for increased contact strength by drilling a hole in any base one wants to use.
Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.
It's quite simple...integral basing is a superior consumer product. This is why.
1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.
2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.
Well, anyways, it's moot as the Frostgrave dudes come w/ integral bases and we're straying pretty off topic.
1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.
Citation needed on the above ratios.
I have broken/bent many legs and ankles cutting off too thick integrated bases. Doesn't always happen, but it is irksome. I have multiple armies with custom bases under every model, and having to cut off integrated bases makes me nuts when I have to do so many.
2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.
Not sure I can agree with you here. With metals I totally agree: they need something more than just a skinny foot. I prefer a short peg, but something is really handy. For plastics or resins, you really don't need so much. I could see a really good middle ground being a small integrated base under each foot but not connected to each other. I'd be alright with that, although it would still take time to clip off for me, but wouldn't result in broken ankles. Then again, even when assembling large armies I don't use the "glop" method of attachment, so there are probably differences in expected functionality at work for us
Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.
This is quite simply wrong. See the above Dreamforge figures. Foot pegs, and no "giant pedestals" for bases.
The rest of your post is (unsurprisingly), your opinion presented as fact in the most insulting way possible, and is honestly not worth addressing.
judgedoug wrote: Not understanding this. You mean a separate base that then gets glued onto a 1mm thick renedra-style base? Or you mean the thick pedestals of GW/PP/etc with holes molded into them? Which also are awful. That's the worst solution ever.
I was honestly thinking of the DFG bases. Which could then be attached to a multi base or washers or whatever if one chose to do so.
judgedoug wrote: Wew, I mean, the Free Company are still pretty good, but every other human model, especially the Empire monkey soldiers, are terrrriiibbbllleeee.
These guys look like they're mercenaries in a cold environment. Two thumbs up. Now, Empire State troops can't be bothered to wear boots, so they actually ARE hobos. Well, I guess weird neanderthal infantry can hit someone with a halberd but doesn't perhaps understand the benefit of footwear.
These guys look like hobo mercenaries who couldn't find any actual clothing to cover up with and had to use rags instead. The GW Empire troops were made to look like poor, ill equipped soldiers on purpose, because they reference historical troops who had the same issue. I'm not the biggest fan of the GW figures either, seriously. Especially the faces. But they still come out better than these do, in my opinion.
judgedoug wrote: No, I appreciate quality and have spent several thousand bucks of Mierce miniatures. But when it comes to plastic infantry, integral bases is just straight up superior. Much greater surface area for plastic-to-plastic-glue-to-plastic Renedra base or, especially, plastic-to-superglue-to-mdf bases. As someone who routinely assembles and paints armies of hundreds of guys, not having integral bases would make projects take an order of magnitude longer to complete
Hefty doses of opinion as fact and bragging all in the same paragraph. Bravo sir.
Done arguing about this. If you like eating gak, keep eating it. I don't care.
I hate integral bases on plastic miniatures. They are a huge pain, and a near constant source of frustration for me. You either have to spend precious hobby time building up the base around the little tab with some goop of your choice, or clip or slice off the dang thing without breaking ankles or cutting the bottom of the feet at an angle etc.
I wish someone would get somebody other than Bob Naismith to sculpt some plastics. He is responsible for a crazy number of the smaller companies releases in plastic. I just can't take anymore of his style. I hate hate hate his dumb axe heads (seen on the halberd in frostgrave set or all of Mantic's orcs) because they look like something that was cast not forged ( with the stupid little blobby spikes on the sides.) and never have a proper spike on the top.
That being said, when it comes to fantasy plastics I'll take what I can get, and I remain excited to see the cultists.
I'm a huge fan of the cloth sack head cultists, and will definitely be picking up a box. I've not yet started in on my Frostgrave soldiers, and can see some serious swappin' back and forth in my future. I also have a few leftover GW infantry sprue bits, so who knows what might happen!?
Whew! Integral bases! Hoo boy! Gettin' kinda hot in here.
Speaking of parts swaps, I assume that other plastic multiparts will swap pretty easily with these guys. That would make them super versatile for all kinds of games.
Wehrkind wrote: Not sure I can agree with you here. With metals I totally agree: they need something more than just a skinny foot. I prefer a short peg, but something is really handy. For plastics or resins, you really don't need so much. I could see a really good middle ground being a small integrated base under each foot but not connected to each other. I'd be alright with that, although it would still take time to clip off for me, but wouldn't result in broken ankles. Then again, even when assembling large armies I don't use the "glop" method of attachment, so there are probably differences in expected functionality at work for us
This is actually a brilliant idea. One of the best things about integral bases is the "marching" or "running" pose where one foot is off the ground, so you need the extra surface area on the other foot. Just having a small integral base around each foot would a) give me the surface area and speed I need, b) would give you a much smaller area to remove and c) also provide you and I with the extra "height" (I prefer from integral bases, and you add w/ credit card bits) so there's no "sinking into quicksand" effect. Much better than a peg which would need to be removed when element or mdf basing anyways.
How do you avoid the sinking effect using an integral base? You still have to glue the sand/flock/whatever on to and around the integral base, the only difference is that the model looks like it's standing on a little hill. At least that's my experience with integral bases.
Zywus wrote: Integral bases are the absolute worst with regards to different basing possibilities. Even slottabase inserts are comparatively easy to cut off if one wants to put the model on a scenic base.
The best solution is to extend a pip from one or more of the ground contact points. Very easy to cut off and can be kept for increased contact strength by drilling a hole in any base one wants to use.
Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.
It's quite simple...integral basing is a superior consumer product. This is why.
1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.
2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.
Well, anyways, it's moot as the Frostgrave dudes come w/ integral bases and we're straying pretty off topic.
I really don't get what you're talking about.
It's a lot harder to remove integral bases than it is to cut of a footpeg. Have you ever tried yourself?
Feets snap vary easily or you accidentally cut off parts of then since it's hard cut the feet at a straight angle when the integral base is wider then the feet.
Foot pegs surely don't require "pedistal bases" by which I assume you mean anything thicker than one millimeter thick bases. You just cut the peg down to whatever thickness the base is.
In your example with 12x36 models of these guys you either:
- Place them on top of flat bases and flock them, Getting over 400 models all standing on small hills
- Spend HOURS upon HOURS placing them on top of flat bases gluing an extra layer of sand or other basing materials around the integral base before you add another layer over the whole base. (Incidentally making the base thicker, moving closer to the maligned "pedistal bases" that you seem to disparage so)
- Keep them on only the small integral base they come with, making them prone to fall over very easy and making them unable to rank up properly on moving trays.
Till we get the Frostgrave mass battle expansion where you actually need 400 models... is there any chance we could get back on topic?
You can use any models you like with the game. Personally I am more interested in whether it's a Treasure-Hunter or Infantryman than whether he has a peg, base, or nothing attached under his feet, but I am CERTAIN there would be LOADS of interest from at least 3 people in a thread all about Pegs Vs Integral Bases on a modelling sub-forum somewhere. You guys could argue it out for days, for PAGES, and I wouldn't need to read ANY of it. It would be GREAT, honest.
jmurph wrote: Speaking of parts swaps, I assume that other plastic multiparts will swap pretty easily with these guys. That would make them super versatile for all kinds of games.
Surprised that nobody had done the typical thing of posting an image of one with a set of Cadian lasgun arms.
Honestly usually for me it is a deal breaker so yes sorry. I'm going to get a box of these but if it is to hard to remove I'll probably not get any more and its a real shame because they look nice.
Motograter wrote: Don't fancy reading through all 20 pages. Can someone sell me on this game?
What do I need to play, models I can use, bases, are there any evil dwarfs etc?
You can use pretty much any fantasy model. The profiles as their written are for generic human adventurers, but the system is easy enough to transpose to Orks, Dwarves, Elves, guys with guns and what not (as its a city of magic you can find all sorts. Want to use Space Marines? Well they're been transported from another plane, very D&D). If you're played Mordheim its a lot like that thematically, though the rules are somewhat less complex (and as they're just out an errata's upcoming to patch them a bit). Bases can be round or square, typically 25mm, but it doesn't really matter as long as you aren't too obtuse. I've seen people wanting to use it for other scales than 28mm such as 15mm too. The game uses a 20 sided dice, and by and large you can get away with just the one.
Most scenarios are orientated heavily towards capturing treasure. When fighting is involved its easier deadly or a stalemate due to RNG, though that's the way of a lot of games. If you're playing a campaign then you should be avoiding combat where you can of course, and there's always a bit of tactics going on as you weigh up how to snatch the most treasure.
The book itself is only like £15, so its not a major sink in your pocket to suck it and see in any case. If you've got a decent fantasy following in your area it aught to be picked up easily enough.
Oh and the Lead Adventure forum has a board dedicated to the game too. Its much more active than Dakka's loose threads in the misc miniatures games one, and there's a thread at the top of the page which the creator responds to rules questions daily (enjoy my massive posts of beardyness).
judgedoug wrote: Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. While I would not normally hold up GW as an example of the best way to do things, they make a number of plastic figures with pegs on the bottom of one foot. They easily and seamlessly fit into holes in their molded plastic bases. No "pedestal" needed.
1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.
Do you have some secret trick to do this, because I find it incredily difficult and time consuming to trim the integral base off of even one figure without damaging the feet of the figure.
2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.
This has certainly not been my own experince in basing units of GW plastic infantry without slotta bases. Two dabs of glue on the bottom of their feet and stick them onto the base. Easy. Hardly hours of extra work.
While its just as easy to attach a figure with an integral base to a plastic or MDF base, then you need to somehow blend the integral base into the surface of the plastic/MDF base using green stuff or some other putty like compound. Not that difficult for one figure, but it does add significant time if you are doing dozens of figures in an army. Plus, you now have every memeber of your unit standing on their own little mound. Inset bases like the one's Warmahordes uses mitigate this "mound" issues somewhat but you still need to fill in the space around the integral base. Plus not everyone likes the look of the Warmahordes style bases.
In the end the integral bases on the Frostgrave figures are hardly a deal breaker for me, but given the choice I do wish they had done without them.
Best way I have found to take off integrated bases (or thick resin/metal slot tabs) without damaging ankles is to use a rotary tool to cut away a little bit in the middle, making it thin enough such that when I use my good flush cutters to nip through that spot the thick part of the cutters doesn't get the chance to push the ankles apart. Once the connection between ankles is gone, you can flush cut off other bits without much risk of damage.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Till we get the Frostgrave mass battle expansion where you actually need 400 models... is there any chance we could get back on topic?
You can use any models you like with the game. Personally I am more interested in whether it's a Treasure-Hunter or Infantryman than whether he has a peg, base, or nothing attached under his feet, but I am CERTAIN there would be LOADS of interest from at least 3 people in a thread all about Pegs Vs Integral Bases on a modelling sub-forum somewhere. You guys could argue it out for days, for PAGES, and I wouldn't need to read ANY of it. It would be GREAT, honest.
I was actually just surprised people had thay many old credit cards laying about that they could afford to use that as material to base minis. I do hope there is no scale creep to a bigger number of miniatures at the type of game Frsotgrave is. Maybe another game using those miniatures... but not Frostgrave. If it gets to be as crunchy per mini, that's going to be a long post-game phase.
If anyone really wants to continue the 'integral bases vs other options' discussion, please take it to P&M to avoid clogging up the thread with off-topi chatter.
I know some people are leery of introducing other races... do we have anything in the fluff about other races (elves, dwarves, bugbears, etc) in the setting? Making them different enough yet balanced enough takes mad skillz.
Don't know much about the fluff yet, we'll have to wait for the anthology coming out in September. On the FB group, someone made racial templates that can be applied to Wizards and Soldiers alike.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I know some people are leery of introducing other races... do we have anything in the fluff about other races (elves, dwarves, bugbears, etc) in the setting? Making them different enough yet balanced enough takes mad skillz.
The way I've been explaining it is that they're either a result of the magic in the city (i.e. experiments, or coming through magic portals from other worlds) or that its a big world and all sorts of things can be out there. Perhaps other races are coming out of the woodwork now that the magical city has been revealed again, and that with so much knowledge lost they were forgotten too. Mind that given that this is a medieval fantasy setting much of the world was yet to be explored then, so you could get away with saying other races exist out there somewhere, its just that they're not well known by the humans.
Leave it for the creator to decide of course. Though if he totally debunks the existence of other races I'd still follow back on "magic did it". Que someone playing Space Marines.
Which reminds me that I'm using a Dark Elf warband... I changed the setting to the ruins of Vvardenfell in Morrowind however.
streetsamurai wrote: Mathieu, you live in Montreal irrc. Do you knw of a place where they play this game ?
Just dowloaded the rules and I'm very interested in it
I am in Montreal(quick, before the Plateau secedes!), and no, I know of no one else who plays on the island. I'd be more than happy to get a game on wherevs (as long as it's not during my business hours.) PM if you want to play, or a demo at my place, again, wherevs.
...this is not my lingo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just so every Canadian player knows, Meeplemart has just announced they will be carrying the full range.
Anyone know if someone stocks the plastic soldiers in the States? I don't mind buying direct from North Star considering how awesome Warlord is at shipping but its just so much easier not having to cross the ocean if I can avoid it.
With this new supplement for Frostgrave, players can lead their warbands into the vast network of catacombs, sewers, and dungeons that run underneath the Frozen City. It was in these dark confines that the ancient wizards known as Beastcrafters experimented on living creatures, creating strange hybrids and deadly monsters, many of which still roam the forgotten passageways. Along with a host of new scenarios, treasures, soldiers, and creatures, the book also contains rules for the traps and secret passages that are often found in the dungeons. With the wonderful and rare magical treasures to be discovered, will players risk taking their warbands down into the Breeding Pits?
