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I'm a huge fan of the cloth sack head cultists, and will definitely be picking up a box. I've not yet started in on my Frostgrave soldiers, and can see some serious swappin' back and forth in my future. I also have a few leftover GW infantry sprue bits, so who knows what might happen!?

Whew! Integral bases! Hoo boy! Gettin' kinda hot in here.

Speaking of parts swaps, I assume that other plastic multiparts will swap pretty easily with these guys. That would make them super versatile for all kinds of games.

 Wehrkind wrote:
Not sure I can agree with you here. With metals I totally agree: they need something more than just a skinny foot. I prefer a short peg, but something is really handy. For plastics or resins, you really don't need so much. I could see a really good middle ground being a small integrated base under each foot but not connected to each other. I'd be alright with that, although it would still take time to clip off for me, but wouldn't result in broken ankles. Then again, even when assembling large armies I don't use the "glop" method of attachment, so there are probably differences in expected functionality at work for us

This is actually a brilliant idea. One of the best things about integral bases is the "marching" or "running" pose where one foot is off the ground, so you need the extra surface area on the other foot. Just having a small integral base around each foot would a) give me the surface area and speed I need, b) would give you a much smaller area to remove and c) also provide you and I with the extra "height" (I prefer from integral bases, and you add w/ credit card bits) so there's no "sinking into quicksand" effect. Much better than a peg which would need to be removed when element or mdf basing anyways.

How do you avoid the sinking effect using an integral base? You still have to glue the sand/flock/whatever on to and around the integral base, the only difference is that the model looks like it's standing on a little hill. At least that's my experience with integral bases.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Zywus wrote:
Integral bases are the absolute worst with regards to different basing possibilities. Even slottabase inserts are comparatively easy to cut off if one wants to put the model on a scenic base.

The best solution is to extend a pip from one or more of the ground contact points. Very easy to cut off and can be kept for increased contact strength by drilling a hole in any base one wants to use.

Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.

It's quite simple...integral basing is a superior consumer product. This is why.

1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.
2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.

Well, anyways, it's moot as the Frostgrave dudes come w/ integral bases and we're straying pretty off topic.

I really don't get what you're talking about.

It's a lot harder to remove integral bases than it is to cut of a footpeg. Have you ever tried yourself?
Feets snap vary easily or you accidentally cut off parts of then since it's hard cut the feet at a straight angle when the integral base is wider then the feet.

Foot pegs surely don't require "pedistal bases" by which I assume you mean anything thicker than one millimeter thick bases. You just cut the peg down to whatever thickness the base is.

In your example with 12x36 models of these guys you either:
- Place them on top of flat bases and flock them, Getting over 400 models all standing on small hills
- Spend HOURS upon HOURS placing them on top of flat bases gluing an extra layer of sand or other basing materials around the integral base before you add another layer over the whole base. (Incidentally making the base thicker, moving closer to the maligned "pedistal bases" that you seem to disparage so)
- Keep them on only the small integral base they come with, making them prone to fall over very easy and making them unable to rank up properly on moving trays.

Till we get the Frostgrave mass battle expansion where you actually need 400 models... is there any chance we could get back on topic?

You can use any models you like with the game. Personally I am more interested in whether it's a Treasure-Hunter or Infantryman than whether he has a peg, base, or nothing attached under his feet, but I am CERTAIN there would be LOADS of interest from at least 3 people in a thread all about Pegs Vs Integral Bases on a modelling sub-forum somewhere. You guys could argue it out for days, for PAGES, and I wouldn't need to read ANY of it. It would be GREAT, honest.

 jmurph wrote:
Speaking of parts swaps, I assume that other plastic multiparts will swap pretty easily with these guys. That would make them super versatile for all kinds of games.

Surprised that nobody had done the typical thing of posting an image of one with a set of Cadian lasgun arms.

Don't fancy reading through all 20 pages. Can someone sell me on this game?

What do I need to play, models I can use, bases, are there any evil dwarfs etc?

Integral bases..............does it really matter? Really?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Integral bases..............does it really matter? Really?

Honestly usually for me it is a deal breaker so yes sorry. I'm going to get a box of these but if it is to hard to remove I'll probably not get any more and its a real shame because they look nice.

 Motograter wrote:
Don't fancy reading through all 20 pages. Can someone sell me on this game?

What do I need to play, models I can use, bases, are there any evil dwarfs etc?

You can use pretty much any fantasy model. The profiles as their written are for generic human adventurers, but the system is easy enough to transpose to Orks, Dwarves, Elves, guys with guns and what not (as its a city of magic you can find all sorts. Want to use Space Marines? Well they're been transported from another plane, very D&D). If you're played Mordheim its a lot like that thematically, though the rules are somewhat less complex (and as they're just out an errata's upcoming to patch them a bit). Bases can be round or square, typically 25mm, but it doesn't really matter as long as you aren't too obtuse. I've seen people wanting to use it for other scales than 28mm such as 15mm too. The game uses a 20 sided dice, and by and large you can get away with just the one.

Most scenarios are orientated heavily towards capturing treasure. When fighting is involved its easier deadly or a stalemate due to RNG, though that's the way of a lot of games. If you're playing a campaign then you should be avoiding combat where you can of course, and there's always a bit of tactics going on as you weigh up how to snatch the most treasure.

The book itself is only like £15, so its not a major sink in your pocket to suck it and see in any case. If you've got a decent fantasy following in your area it aught to be picked up easily enough.

Oh and the Lead Adventure forum has a board dedicated to the game too. Its much more active than Dakka's loose threads in the misc miniatures games one, and there's a thread at the top of the page which the creator responds to rules questions daily (enjoy my massive posts of beardyness).

 judgedoug wrote:
Foot pegs are a half-measure because that requires giant pedestals to base your miniatures on. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't like pedestal bases.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. While I would not normally hold up GW as an example of the best way to do things, they make a number of plastic figures with pegs on the bottom of one foot. They easily and seamlessly fit into holes in their molded plastic bases. No "pedestal" needed.

1. for those who want special spiffy magical basing, just trim off the base. The vast majority of these people will be doing special spiffy magical basing for, at most, a few dozen models.

Do you have some secret trick to do this, because I find it incredily difficult and time consuming to trim the integral base off of even one figure without damaging the feet of the figure.

2. for those with more than a couple dozen models, NOT having integral basing is a _nightmare_. Attempting to assemble twenty 36-man regiments of infantry where the only contact point are two small boots is inferior, inefficient, and maddening, and will not just take longer, but HOURS longer than if you needed a single dab of glue on an integral base and glopped it directly onto a plastic or mdf element base.

This has certainly not been my own experince in basing units of GW plastic infantry without slotta bases. Two dabs of glue on the bottom of their feet and stick them onto the base. Easy. Hardly hours of extra work.

While its just as easy to attach a figure with an integral base to a plastic or MDF base, then you need to somehow blend the integral base into the surface of the plastic/MDF base using green stuff or some other putty like compound. Not that difficult for one figure, but it does add significant time if you are doing dozens of figures in an army. Plus, you now have every memeber of your unit standing on their own little mound. Inset bases like the one's Warmahordes uses mitigate this "mound" issues somewhat but you still need to fill in the space around the integral base. Plus not everyone likes the look of the Warmahordes style bases.

In the end the integral bases on the Frostgrave figures are hardly a deal breaker for me, but given the choice I do wish they had done without them.

Best way I have found to take off integrated bases (or thick resin/metal slot tabs) without damaging ankles is to use a rotary tool to cut away a little bit in the middle, making it thin enough such that when I use my good flush cutters to nip through that spot the thick part of the cutters doesn't get the chance to push the ankles apart. Once the connection between ankles is gone, you can flush cut off other bits without much risk of damage.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Till we get the Frostgrave mass battle expansion where you actually need 400 models... is there any chance we could get back on topic?

You can use any models you like with the game. Personally I am more interested in whether it's a Treasure-Hunter or Infantryman than whether he has a peg, base, or nothing attached under his feet, but I am CERTAIN there would be LOADS of interest from at least 3 people in a thread all about Pegs Vs Integral Bases on a modelling sub-forum somewhere. You guys could argue it out for days, for PAGES, and I wouldn't need to read ANY of it. It would be GREAT, honest.

I was actually just surprised people had thay many old credit cards laying about that they could afford to use that as material to base minis. I do hope there is no scale creep to a bigger number of miniatures at the type of game Frsotgrave is. Maybe another game using those miniatures... but not Frostgrave. If it gets to be as crunchy per mini, that's going to be a long post-game phase.

Seems like there would be lots of other avenues to explore before 'more guys'!

If anyone really wants to continue the 'integral bases vs other options' discussion, please take it to P&M to avoid clogging up the thread with off-topi chatter.

I know some people are leery of introducing other races... do we have anything in the fluff about other races (elves, dwarves, bugbears, etc) in the setting? Making them different enough yet balanced enough takes mad skillz.

Don't know much about the fluff yet, we'll have to wait for the anthology coming out in September. On the FB group, someone made racial templates that can be applied to Wizards and Soldiers alike.

Mathieu, you live in Montreal irrc. Do you knw of a place where they play this game ?
Just dowloaded the rules and I'm very interested in it

I'm just as happy letting other races share the same traits as humans... at least for the time being.

Lets me use all my painted Trollkin and Dwarves of Tir-Na-Bor I keep picking up.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I know some people are leery of introducing other races... do we have anything in the fluff about other races (elves, dwarves, bugbears, etc) in the setting? Making them different enough yet balanced enough takes mad skillz.

The way I've been explaining it is that they're either a result of the magic in the city (i.e. experiments, or coming through magic portals from other worlds) or that its a big world and all sorts of things can be out there. Perhaps other races are coming out of the woodwork now that the magical city has been revealed again, and that with so much knowledge lost they were forgotten too. Mind that given that this is a medieval fantasy setting much of the world was yet to be explored then, so you could get away with saying other races exist out there somewhere, its just that they're not well known by the humans.

Leave it for the creator to decide of course. Though if he totally debunks the existence of other races I'd still follow back on "magic did it". Que someone playing Space Marines.

Which reminds me that I'm using a Dark Elf warband... I changed the setting to the ruins of Vvardenfell in Morrowind however.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Mathieu, you live in Montreal irrc. Do you knw of a place where they play this game ?
Just dowloaded the rules and I'm very interested in it

I am in Montreal(quick, before the Plateau secedes!), and no, I know of no one else who plays on the island. I'd be more than happy to get a game on wherevs (as long as it's not during my business hours.) PM if you want to play, or a demo at my place, again, wherevs.

...this is not my lingo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just so every Canadian player knows, Meeplemart has just announced they will be carrying the full range.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just so every Canadian player knows, Meeplemart has just announced they will be carrying the full range.

Thanks for the heads up!! I've been thinking about buying a box but not many people carry their stuff.

Any guesstimate on when Meeplemart is getting the models in?

They said due September on their FB page. So I'm guessing anywhere between 2 to 5 weeks?

Teaser image for the Frostgrave supplement for June 2016:

"A Campaign of Adventure and Erotica for Frostgrave"

Gnolls you say? Go on...

Yo!

Anyone know if someone stocks the plastic soldiers in the States? I don't mind buying direct from North Star considering how awesome Warlord is at shipping but its just so much easier not having to cross the ocean if I can avoid it.

For that matter have any Americans bought direct?

With this new supplement for Frostgrave, players can lead their warbands into the vast network of catacombs, sewers, and dungeons that run underneath the Frozen City. It was in these dark confines that the ancient wizards known as Beastcrafters experimented on living creatures, creating strange hybrids and deadly monsters, many of which still roam the forgotten passageways. Along with a host of new scenarios, treasures, soldiers, and creatures, the book also contains rules for the traps and secret passages that are often found in the dungeons. With the wonderful and rare magical treasures to be discovered, will players risk taking their warbands down into the Breeding Pits?

http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?PHPSESSID=f16622feb72c062069b5be65ec56ede0&topic=81977.0