Kilkrazy - I get what you're saying. I think we've maybe crossed wires a little. I bought the model, so technically I've bought 100% of GoA models.
Not having a base wouldn't stop me buying a fig I really liked. However, the devil is in the detail, and I think a new company, trying to make an impact and start building support like DSC are, should really be at least matching what competitors are doing, if not exceeding them. What I'm getting at is I'm wary of investing in a system where the manufacturer is giving you the very bare minimum, for what is effectively a boutique manufacturers pricing.
Pacific - they are pretty sweet looking models. I'm planning an Albion themed army for WHFB at some point, so I'll be sure to check them out. I vaguely remember looking at celts and Gauls from the hail cesar line already.
Kilkrazy wrote: Aren't the Cadians and Catachans over 10 years old?
Tau Fire Warriors too, which are another lacklustre set of infantry models.
Woot. Tau Fire Warriors are brilliant-looking (if horrible to assemble) models. I never cared much for Crisis Suits, etc.. ., but those little guys have me coming back to the Tau for years.
Pacific wrote: Should have clarified that in terms of rank and file/standard units. Not character pieces, some of the new plastic GW ones are excellent.
But for your standard units the Hail Caesar Legionnaires are brilliant, really nicely detailed. Found some pics, this is the kind of standard you can get with a kit that costs about 60p a miniature, the Imperial Roman era and Celt miniatures are great also.
Spoiler:
And the Bolt Action stuff I have seen is really nice as well, the US and Brit plastic sets are much better than the GW Cadians and Catachans I think. Much cheaper as well, and you get a lot more random little bits on the sprues.
The casting on those looks pretty good. The sculpting is stuck in the 80s and 90s though. As are the Boromites, and to a slightly lesser degree the Algoryn, from Antares.
The industry needs to move on from that particular sticking point, among others. The more progressive companies these days are moving towards more realistic proportions, better details, etc. Hansa is a great example of the direction that they should take with Antares, in my opinion. Other than the stupid integrated base. That dinosaur needs to die too...
Personally, unless the figures all move towards the style of Hansa and away from the Boromites and Algoryn, the line is a no-go for me.
There is a lot of personal aesthetics involved in one's appreciation of a casting.
If you are used to Historicals, they have always been relatively realistic in proportions, and the GW are the standout weirdo proportions.
GW models have roughly the limb thickness, torso, head, hand and foot size of 1/35th scale infantry, with the height and leg length of the 1/56 scale they are supposed to be. A lot of us have got used to that and feel that realistic models are too thin.
The Romans are a bit towards the squat end of the spectrum, but I think they would be perfectly acceptable as long as you don't mix them with models from a different manufacturer.
The industry needs to move on from that particular sticking point, among others. The more progressive companies these days are moving towards more realistic proportions, better details, etc. Hansa is a great example of the direction that they should take with Antares, in my opinion. Other than the stupid integrated base. That dinosaur needs to die too...
~Eric
I don't tend to think of one being better than the other, but rather a different approach to the same thing.
There's a big argument to be made for when you are viewing big blocks of infantry from 3ft away, and how that appears to you when you are playing the game. I think having the 'heroic' proportions works well for that. The Warlord miniatures aren't too OTT I don't think, but I agree that it's very much a personal thing.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Infinity miniatures and that style of designing miniatures (where you accidentally chop off hands thinking they are flash! ), but you don't see much in historical ranges that have that level of detail and with such delicate sculpting. And, certainly not where you can buy an entire army's worth of plastic for less than £100.
To make a broad judgement, Historical players mainly play mass battle games involving hundreds of figures per side, mounted on multiple figure bases and organised into large blocks of troops.
Skirmish gaming is taken much more as a "beer and pretzels" pastime.
Just having looked at the warlord games website... This is sort of what I'm talking about.
Squat (good word), jowelly... Urgh.
Fortunately, they do also sell some of the Perry Miniatures (yup, THOSE Perry's) range, which look more... proper to me.
So, to pull it back on topic, slightly... If the Gates of Antares models end up looking like the Judge Dredd ones. - Which the Boromites do, although the Algoryn seem to be stepping away from that a bit, to be fairer to them.
Compel pretty well illustrated the point that I am trying to make, I think.
I don't necessarily think Infinity-like proportion should be used, just to be clear. Just more realistic than what they currently do.
I'll use this example a lot, but Kev White's miniatures are (in my opinion) the perfect balance between realism and exaggeration. He intentionally exaggerates some features a little bit (head, hands) but the rest of the mini is kept to pretty realistic proportions. And (also in my opinion) every other sculptor in the business could learn a great deal from him with regard to posing, and conveying weight and movement. There are tons of great sculptors out there that produce awesome miniatures that end up in WTF poses... Just a personal pet peeve of mine.
Part of my disappointment, and perhaps that of others, is that they started with a mini that ticks all the right boxes (Hansa) and then completely shifted gears with the Boromites and the rebel-type guy (can't remember the name) that they had made (by the Boromite sculptor, IIRC). If they had started with, and kept on with the style used on the Boromites, I don't think I would have batted an eye. I probably wouldn't have bought in much, if at all, but I wouldn't be here questioning it either.
Interesting, but still not sold, personally. The poses are definitely wooden. Is there a timeframe on the Algoryn yet? Going to have to see some photos of actual painted figures to make any sort of judgement. Wyrd is putting out some of the best plastic kits that I've ever seen, and their renders almost killed the line for me.
Guildsman wrote: Interesting, but still not sold, personally. The poses are definitely wooden. Is there a timeframe on the Algoryn yet? Going to have to see some photos of actual painted figures to make any sort of judgement. Wyrd is putting out some of the best plastic kits that I've ever seen, and their renders almost killed the line for me.
That'd be Wargames Factory that does Wyrd's stuff (along with Dreamforge and Kingdom Death), but Warlord Games has a different plastics company. Their plastic Bolt Action SD.Kfz 251/1 was a dream to assemble and I believe it was a 3D CAD model.
Well it took a month, but I guess it's progress. I think I'd rather have a model of the silicone creature from the original Star Trek series that bored through the caves than these.....teeth with legs.
Heres the spoilered rules info for those interested (its quiet a read)
Spoiler:
In this case our sample unit comprises five models: a Gang Leader and four Gangers. The leader carries a mag pistol and a hand held weapon for close up fighting – this can be either a tractor maul or lectro-lash. The gangers carry longer-ranged mag guns. Both have reflex armour. Reflex armour is a basic type of kinetic field defence common to many combatants in the Antarean universe. This consists of an energy field suspended from metalised hard points located on the wearer’s armour or clothing. In the case of Boromites, these hard points take the form of separate multifunctional nanite receptor nodes fastened directly into the tough, horny skin of the individual concerned. One of their other functions is to identify the Guild to which the Boromite gang belongs.
The stat line reads as follows Ag (Agility), Acc (Accuracy), Str (Strength) Res (Resist), Init (Initiative) and Co (Command). The value is a base test number for a D10, so you need to roll a D10 and score equal to or under the value shown to pass a test against that particular stat. In other words, to pass an Accuracy test our Boromite would need to roll a 5 or less, assuming no modifiers apply. Most folks will recognise this is a decimal system – a percentage expressed as a single multiple of ten – so a stat of 4 = a 40% chance of success, a stat of 9 = a 90% chance, and so on. I’ve done this deliberately to allow for super-detailing the game in the future by simply multiplying everything by ten and using a D100. That can wait for now though!
In the basic version of the Antares game, all infantry have a move rate of 5″ (M) and a run move rate 10″ (2M). This move rate isn’t included in the stat line. I might add it in later. For now at least, all infantry have the same move rate, so I’ve missed it out to keep the stat line as short as possible.
The Agility value (Ag) is not the move rate, but the stat we test against when moving through terrain that is hard going, when sprinting, and – in theory at least – in any situation that calls for physical agility and athleticism. So, let’s take the sprint move as an example. Any unit given a run order can either run (2M) or sprint (3M). A unit making a sprint moves three times its normal rate or 15″ over open ground, but once it has moved it must test its Agility. If this test is passed all is well. If the test is failed the unit becomes exhausted and suffers a pin marker. With a value of 4 our Boromites are slightly more cumbersome than the average human with a typical value of 5.
Accuracy and Strength are both used to strike at the enemy. Accuracy is the score required to hit when shooting with a ranged weapon, such as a mag gun. Strength is the score required to strike a blow in hand-to-hand fighting with a hand weapon, such as a tractor maul. We’ll also use the Strength stat for various other things, including simple feats of strength, but primarily it tells us how dangerous a fighter is in a scrap. As you can see our Boromites have stats of 5 and 6, 5 being about average for Anatarean combatants and 6 being better than average. Boromites are pretty good at fighting close up when they get the chance.
Resist is a measure of an individual’s likelihood of avoiding or surviving a hit upon his unit. ‘Hits’ from weapons are assumed to be shots that land within the bounds of a unit rather than actual hits upon individuals, although for gaming purposes we allocate hits to individual models. Depending upon his stamina, training, cover, and personal defences an individual has a chance to resist a hit and avoid damage. In the case of our Boromites this value is 6. This is better than the average human because Boromites are naturally tough, but the value is further boosted by +1 to 7 to take account of the reflex shields. If no further modifiers apply, this means our Boromite will survive a hit on a roll of 7 or under. Most weapons do have modifiers though – strike value modifiers – which vary from weapon to weapon and over different ranges in some cases.
Initiative and Command are the stats used to activate our units, and we have already discussed how this works in a previous update. Initiative and Command stats average around 8 in most cases, with a typical panhuman having a value of 7 and 8, or 8 and 7 respectively. These stats average at a higher value than others because they are affected directly by pins, with a –1 penalty per pin, so once a unit has 2 or 3 pins its chances of a successful test come in at around 50/50. Command is used to make actions – it is the equivalent of a Bolt Action Order – so a successful test allows the unit to perform a single action. Initiative is used to make a reaction to an enemy action, and the chance to do this is strictly limited depending upon circumstance. For example, if an enemy unit within 20″ shoots at your unit, your unit can attempt to shoot back by initiating a firefight. If successful, both units get to shoot at each other. Command tests and Initiative tests have penalties for failure. If you fail a Command test your unit fails to act as you wish and goesdown instead that turn – this is exactly the same as in Bolt Action. If you fail to make a reaction then your unit fails to react as you wish and takes a pin marker. As you can see, our Boromites are pretty good when it comes to Command with a value of 9. Conversely, Boromites are a bit sluggish when it comes to reacting with a stat of only 6. In summary, Boromites are gritty and determined when you give them orders, but ask them to think on their feet and things may not go quite so well for you.
and a bit of info on the lavamites
Our second unit of painted Boromites are the strange creatures native to the Borom asteroid belt known as Lavamites and sometimes as Rock Dogs. These creatures are used as working animals by the Boromites because, being organic after a fashion, they are invisible to nanite probes. Although nominally labour organisations, the Guilds include some of the most dangerous criminal elements in Antarean space, avoiding technology that would enable them to be traced or readily identified. Receptors hammered into the Lavamites’ scales enable Boromite handlers to control them, sending the creatures scurrying deep into fissures to sniff out valuable ores, or turning them into monstrous attack hounds. Not only do Lavamites have jaws that can (and do) crush rock, when threatened they can superheat their stomach contents and spit molten rock. As if this were not bad enough, the Lavamite is only the tiny juvenile stage of a species prevented from growing further by implanted receptor nodes. Only when new stock is needed do the Boromites allow their charges to mature into gigantic adults.
(Ok.. that was pretty terrible.. will understand if I get a quick-post ban for that! )
Out of interest, does anyone know what the miniature count is for the game? Is it similar to Bolt Action level?
about 8 units of 5 men plus drones, support platforms and a general I believe is the inital plan. 40-50 figs maybe. There are plans to up the scale with vehicles as the game expands.
edit, found a quote from Rick
I've reworked a lot of the basics of the forces for the new versions - but my sample armies are based on infantry forces - about 30-40 models - units of five with two or three support units and a commander unit - usually three models. So, not huge - and fairly modest in terms of scope - but obviously just a start! That's the sort of size games we've been playing.
Thanks Edlowe.. think that's very achievable, and hopefully if they do release some plastics very affordable.
Looking forward to seeing what the drones turn out like, and if they have the customisable level they originally promised - think they might well be the deal-breaker for this game!
We're just putting the finishing touches to the Concord models, which are also armed largely with plasma weaponry. We'll be showing the renders for these off soon...
They really do have a "Tau Auxillary" feel to them, actually. Now I know what I'm going to do with my Boromi... oh, wait, I don't have any and have no intention of buying them.
Theophony wrote: Well it took a month, but I guess it's progress. I think I'd rather have a model of the silicone creature from the original Star Trek series that bored through the caves than these.....teeth with legs.
As much as I'd love to like them, nothing about the Boromites appeal to me (they look like an underfed The Thing wearing a nappy), I hope the future releases look better.
The Boromites suffer from one fatal flaw: they're ugly. They're not the good sort of ugly, either - for something like the Necromorphs, their ugliness serves a purpose. These just make you ask "Why can't we have miners that don't suffer from a skin condition?"
There's lots of scope out there if the plan is to continue to mine bad-looking super heroes.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
If Rick Priestly reads this, I have to sort-of apologise - I love your work - from 40k to BA and more recently HC - And it's been a huge, defining part of my life in many ways, but the GoA stuff is just ...not inspiring me to do much besides make jokes.
Trying to push Boromites is a Sisyphean task indeed!
It would seem Warlord have found themselves between a rock and a hard place with this range - they have invested loads of cash into these, but the fact is that few care for blockheaded heavies straight out of a bad Star Trek episode. Personally, I like them for their ludicrousness and they wouldn't look out of place next to my not-Thundarr miniatures, but I don't think these have mass appeal.
Honestly, if they came free as part of a non-negotiable set as part of one of Mantic's Kickstarters, for example, I really would be "ok, these guys can be a squad of Tau Auxillaries". (which, compared to the deep dark boxes a lot of Mantic stuff ends up in, never to be painted or constructed is at least something. But, you know, I wouldn't go out and buy them on their own merits.
-DE- wrote: Trying to push Boromites is a Sisyphean task indeed!
It would seem Warlord have found themselves between a rock and a hard place with this range - they have invested loads of cash into these, but the fact is that few care for blockheaded heavies straight out of a bad Star Trek episode. Personally, I like them for their ludicrousness and they wouldn't look out of place next to my not-Thundarr miniatures, but I don't think these have mass appeal.
-DE- wrote: Trying to push Boromites is a Sisyphean task indeed!
It would seem Warlord have found themselves between a rock and a hard place with this range - they have invested loads of cash into these, but the fact is that few care for blockheaded heavies straight out of a bad Star Trek episode. Personally, I like them for their ludicrousness and they wouldn't look out of place next to my not-Thundarr miniatures, but I don't think these have mass appeal.
-DE- wrote: Trying to push Boromites is a Sisyphean task indeed!
It would seem Warlord have found themselves between a rock and a hard place with this range - they have invested loads of cash into these, but the fact is that few care for blockheaded heavies straight out of a bad Star Trek episode. Personally, I like them for their ludicrousness and they wouldn't look out of place next to my not-Thundarr miniatures, but I don't think these have mass appeal.
In the Seventh Age of humankind the ancient Gates of Antares link or isolate worlds across countless galaxies. The evolved panhuman races wage an unending battle to control the technology of the Gates and the undiscovered systems beyond.
Beyond the Gates of Antares is our forthcoming Science Fiction wargame, written by Rick Priestley.
The first model releases are currently in preparation - we hope to have them available for sale around the middle of 2014, along with a free downloadable rules set. The core rules are based on the popular Bolt Action World War II game, using D10s rather than D6s to allow more variety in the stats, plus the same Order Dice system.
You’ll find plenty more about the models, the game and the background via the links on this page. We’ll be posting new material regularly so check back often or better still, sign up for our Newsletter to keep up to date.
Beyond the Gates of Antares is our forthcoming Science Fiction wargame – we call it Antares for short. The first model releases are currently in preparation – we hope to have them available for sale around the middle of 2014. You’ll find plenty more about the models, the game and background to Antarean space via the links on this page. New articles are added regularly showing our work in progress, so don’t forget to check back to see what’s new. Even better, subscribe to the Warlord newsletter to receive news about all of our latest releases.
The Antares game and background have been created by me – Rick Priestley – to fill what I think is a considerable void in modern science-fiction wargaming. Namely, a challenging game based upon solid representational mechanisms that can be adapted easily to facilitate any size of conflict from the smallest skirmish to huge battles. Truth be told, I’ve built a game that I know I will enjoy playing for other like-minded gamers. That’s players who want a game to be flexible enough to enable them to weave interesting scenarios, but also challenging enough to just pitch forces into a straightforward conflict when that suits us best. Similarly, I’ve created a background that offers opportunities for exploration and invention, but which also establishes a series of strong, and very different, forces right from the start. If that sounds like trying to reconcile opposites then yes I admit that it does! That kind of scope has always been an important aspect of fantasy and science-fiction wargames design for me! To paraphrase Oscar Wilde – it’s a very boring man who can only play a wargame one way!
BOROMITE GANG FIGHTERSUnit: Gang FightersAgAccStrResInitCoSpecial1 x Gang Leader: mag pistol and tractor maul or lectro-lash, reflex armour.4566694 x Ganger: mag gun, reflex armour456669
THE MODELS
The models for the Antares game are 28mm size and either cast in metal or moulded in resin – depending upon what they are. Most troopers and ordinary size models will be metal. Larger pieces that are impractical to make in metal will be resin instead. We will also make some of our metal models available as resin collector’s pieces – as we have with the Hansa Nairoba character. Eventually, we would anticipate making some of our models as plastic kits – as we currently do with many of our historical ranges.
We intend to cast our models with integral bases that allow them to stand unaided. This enables them to be mounted upon any suitable size or style base either for gaming or display. However, we also intend to include separate round bases with future models for use in the Antares game.
To begin with, we want to build two playable forces, which we will expand to four as quickly as we can. The first two to be designed cover the Boromite Guilds and the Algoryn Prosperate. You’ll find more about these two in the accompanying articles. Our second design project is to build the armies for the Panhuman Concord and Isorian Shard. These are the biggest and most influential civilisations of Antarean space. Once we have playable forces for all four of these we will work to expand the range by making more models for all four armies. We’ll also start making models for the remaining forces described in the background. Ultimately it’s an open ended project and we can go on adding more forever, but we want to get a core of playable forces ready as soon as we can.
For those who are interested in such things, some of our models are designed as physical sculpts in the traditional manner, whilst others are digital sculpts created on a computer. It all depends on which method the sculptor prefers to use. Digital sculpting does allow better representation of mechanical and regular shapes, or at least does so more easily, as you will see in some of the work in progress articles.
THE GAME
The core game rules have been built around the popular Bolt Action system and utilise Warlord’s unique Order Dice for unit activation. However, the rules themselves are considerably developed from Bolt Action, and feature a decimal (D10) dice test system rather than a D6. The most obvious consequence of this is to allow for a greater variation of weapon types, tactical modifiers and troops stats.
The initial game rules envisage games of about five to fifteen units a side, with a unit being a single squad of five models, a command squad of three models, a support team that consists of a weapon and two or three crew, or a flight of probes – usually about three. These unit sizes are not fixed, but they are the kind of sizes that are the most effective in the game in most situations. The number of units described is enough to play a fairly modest game up to a battle that would typically last for a whole evening of play. It would involve maybe as few as twenty models for a small game to maybe sixty or so for a large one. However, the system is flexible, and games of practically any size can be played if you have sufficient room.
The Order Dice system allows for conventional game play between two opposing forces controlled by one or more players. As such you can play head-to-head games just as you can with Bolt Action. You can also play in teams if you prefer – as we commonly do with bigger Bolt Action games. The Order Dice system also allows for multi-sided games and games involving third party games masters –something I particularly wanted to have as an option in some scenarios.
The game can be played on a typically sized wargames table four feet wide and four to six feet long. Movement distances and weapon ranges are scaled to work with tables of this size, although weapons have potential ranges that are far greater than envisaged in Bolt Action. You can – and we do – play on larger tables when these are available – but you don’t need a gigantic set-up to play.
Our intention is to make the work in progress core game rules available as a PDF download at about the same time as we release our first models. The core rules will cover basic infantry combat and will include sample forces as well as rules for the various weapons and equipment. We’ll then build our online resources to include additional rules for other aspects of warfare such as vehicles, aerial units, and so on. We’ll also continue to update the core rule set as we receive feedback from our playtest groups and via the Beyond the Gates of Antares forum.
Our current intention is to publish the complete game only once we are ready, but in the meantime to make updated versions available as PDF downloads.
THE BACKGROUND
The Antares games take place in a far future time when mankind has spread throughout space by means of a network of interspatial gateways – the Gates of Antares. Although the majority of human populations are physically comparable to the humans of today, some have developed into new species with many distinct differences. Some of these differences are artificially triggered adaptations, designed to enable people to survive environments that would soon kill ordinary humans. However, the strangest of these panhuman morphs – as they are called – are the New Human elites referred to as NuHu.
The NuHu are taller than ordinary humans and elegantly proportioned, slender and graceful, appearing to lack physical strength – although this is deceptive. They are biologically adapted to function as part of the Integrated Machine Intelligence (IMTel) that controls most advanced human societies. These societies rely upon a nanite cloud of virus-sized machines that acts as a medium of communication on most advanced human worlds. NuHu can interface directly with the nanosphere and form a biological component of it – a living manifestation of a planet’s all pervading IMTel. The NuHu Mandarins of the Panhuman Concord, and the NuHu Senatexis of Isori, are both the masters of the IMTel and its slaves. Connected to it, a NuHu’s powers are almost superhuman. Isolated from it, a NuHu quickly becomes disoriented and will most likely be driven insane or even die if the disconnection endures for very long.
Antarean space comprises millions of worlds, many of them inhabited by humans. Much of the conflict that forms the subject of our game revolves around the exploration of new worlds or search for systems that provide easy staging points through the Antarean network. Many worlds settled by humans in ages past remain isolated to this day. Intelligent aliens inhabit other worlds, potential allies or threats. However, the ultimate ambition of all the civilisations of Antarean space is to uncover the secrets of Antares itself: to find the race that built the network or at least the remnants of its technology. That race is called simply the Builders – and the quest to obtain Builder technology is one that preoccupies all of the advanced societies of Antarean space – human and otherwise.
I cannot help but read, "I made something I would love to play so its stuck in the mid 80's"
I do not like the notion of scaleable game systems, it was good a few decades ago, but now the game design has evolved enough to demand scale specific rulesets.
To be entirely honest I see some good ideas mixed with archaic ones and no bold decision to make the step forward.
I could've stopped reading at "integral bases." From a purely practical standpoint, I will have to grind off every. single. one of them, which is just obscene.
There are just so many red flags in that one newsletter. I'll pass.
Did Rick write bolt action rules? I haven't paid attention to that game at all, but the newsletter hypes how rick wrote the game rules then says they are the same as bolt action . If he didn't do bolt action I find this amusing. If he did then I still find is amusing.
Theophony wrote: Did Rick write bolt action rules? I haven't paid attention to that game at all, but the newsletter hypes how rick wrote the game rules then says they are the same as bolt action . If he didn't do bolt action I find this amusing. If he did then I still find is amusing.
As a guy who plays Bolt Action I think the potential is there for a great system. Yeah it's fairly simple and could use some fleshing out, but since that seems to be what GoA is doing with the ruleset, I'm interested to see what happens.
The models may not be doing it for me, but if the rules are good I'll just a use my Dreamforge, Victoria Lamb, or old IG minis and find a way to make them fit in.
I just want to see another Sci Fi ruleset hit relative "mainstream" status so I can head to the FLGS and not have to play 40k to get my lasers and sci fi shenanigans fix. Right now it's pretty much between this and whatever Mark's rules end up being as they seem to be the only two that would be able to throw enough weight behind their systems to seriously challenge 40k's dominance.
I don't even care if they take a major section of the market, I just want to have a chance at walking into a store and being able to expect a pickup game besides 40k.
Seems a lot of negativity towards GoA, I know alot of people, me included, were let down by the kickstarter, however I rather like the boromites and the setting as a whole.
It just seems people are trying to find bad points where they can I.e. calling hansa a porn star or saying the boromites are 80's flashbacks. I know some of this could be people trying to score 'internet cool' points but it seems there are people who just dont want to give this a chance.
I think it's more people did give it a chance, a year ago.
I know I've pretty much just soured on the game now but, that's just me and I'm actually trying to avoid posting too much on this thread to avoid putting people off of it due to my general grumpiness.
Actually Compel, I was really annoyed with the results of the ks. Guess im just more willing to give them a chance (maybe more fool me) I like where its heading atm but I admit they should have had all this done 12 months ago ready for the ks.i actually dropped my pledge before the cancellation stating I need to see more before I parted with my cash.
To me that's the real downer of the whole thing. They've had a YEAR since the kickstarter and it looks like they haven't done much at all. He didn't write a complete set of rules, only adopted a set from another line and is throwing out fluff. The only models we've seen were ones that started a year ago with the kickstarter. I thought they said they were proceeding no matter what, but they just don't show me something amazing, just lackluster.
This is the sort of thing I want to like, but the models don't do anything for me, nor does the fluff.
If the rules ever come out and are fast and fun to play, I'll use my existing models for them. If they happen to release models I like, they can go onto the large, long shopping list with kits from a dozen or so other manufacturers I buy from.
Guildsman wrote: I could've stopped reading at "integral bases." From a purely practical standpoint, I will have to grind off every. single. one of them, which is just obscene.
Agreed. I really like some of the designs and fluff, but I am not going back to the late eighties to deal with that. With a crowded market and lots of competition, they need to be attracting punters, not putting them off...
This week we’d like to show you the first result of the work we’ve been doing for the next Antarean force – the Panhuman Concord. This is very much an example of work-in-progress and scaled next to an Algoryn AI trooper.
What we have here is a 3-D digital image – a screen render – so nothing is quite finalised as yet.
That is the problem with SF these days. Over the decades, so many images have been produced, that it is more or less impossible to design a completely original "future soldier" visual concept.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Especially considering it needs to be capable of being manufactured and used for a game piece.
Kilkrazy wrote: That is the problem with SF these days. Over the decades, so many images have been produced, that it is more or less impossible to design a completely original "future soldier" visual concept.
I wouldn't call that a problem. If there's a visual concept you like in non-miniatures sci-fi, it is not redundant to also produce that concept as a miniature, just like nobody would say that because we have Warhammer 40,000, we don't want Dawn of War.
As long as the concept and the execution are both decent, of course.
Kilkrazy wrote: That is the problem with SF these days. Over the decades, so many images have been produced, that it is more or less impossible to design a completely original "future soldier" visual concept.
I wouldn't call that a problem. If there's a visual concept you like in non-miniatures sci-fi, it is not redundant to also produce that concept as a miniature, just like nobody would say that because we have Warhammer 40,000, we don't want Dawn of War.
As long as the concept and the execution are both decent, of course.
It is a problem if you are looking for originality in the design concept, otherwise you end up with more and more figures that look like variations on the basic Star Wars theme. Obviously it's nice to have some options but how many options are needed? IDK how many variations of generic armoured "future soldiers" models are on the market already; it's quite a lot, though.
Theres a bit more text explaining the armours design.
The Concord is one of the two major human forces of Antarean space, the other being the Isorian Shard. Every army in the game has to have its own distinctive look and feel, and in the case of Concord Strike troopers this is especially important because of the pivotal role played by the Concord in the Antarean background. Finding a look that we were happy with has taken us a while, but the development of our Boromites and Algoryn gave us plenty of practice. The basis of the model’s armour is a flexible undersuit featuring padded areas and hard points that carry the hyper-light shielding – a kind of reactive force field that is the trooper’s main defence against attack. Rather than give the model a backpack or distinct shoulder pads – which would make it look rather old fashioned – we’ve provided our Strike trooper with an upper body harness that incorporates an environment generator and necessary physical components. The helmet features a series of nested frontal plates, which can slide upwards to allow direct visibility or close down to offer maximum protection. This means we can have closed or open head variants for our troopers.
Strike troopers carry plasma carbines as standard armament. Plasma carbines are duel function weapons that can fire either rapid bursts or a more powerful sustained shot. In game terms this means they can double-up their fire with some loss of accuracy and penetration if they wish. Strike leaders also carry X-slings. Support teams include crewed launchers as well as independent weapon drones. We’ll be showing off some more of these developments once they are ready over the next few weeks.
Hi guys, not really news but I ran across this image on beastsofwars salute 2014 coverage of the warlord games booth.
Its a very small image, but going from front to back (and left to right) I can see the following:
Boromite Overseer squad, 3 troops, 1 small drone
Bormite Gang Fighters, 5 troop squad
Algoryn Command squad, 3 troops
Algoryn AI squad, 5 troops + 1 unknown, Note the darker orange figure in the middle, its thinner and more feminine
looking with a higher collar plate at the back, its also carrying a long rifle/sniper rifle of some kind.
Concord Trooper, 1 figure, its the same one above.
Boromite Frag Borer with 2 man team and small drone
Freeborn fighter? from the cancelled KS, he looks really out of scale to me, almost heroic sized. (below is the freeborn sculpt for those who haven't seen it)
Spoiler:
3 unknown figures, 2 ogre-like creatures and a squat bunny girl? I think the sign says: Fyngia Ogres. Are these even for BoA, any ideas?
Hulk Hogan, sorry, Hansa
Boromite Work Gang, 5 troop squad with a new weapon.
Were the Concord guys supposed to be more human? While I'm not super excited for these, it's nice to see that the project is still actually happening. I do like a lot of the designs too. Hell, I may even buy some at some point. I'd be curious to see how they scale up to Infinity though.
So now that we have bettter pictures it turns out that the ogre-like creatures are indeed a team of three female ogres, I can't read what the label says, but
it looks like these aren't related to BoA. The more slender/feminine looking miniature (among the algoryn squad) is a Isorain trooper, the first one created
so expect to see an update on those guys soon, very cool.
For anyone who hasn't seen the Isorain concept art: (big pic)
Spoiler:
So even if the boromites are a bit meh, we at least have The Concord, Algoryn and Isorain Shard armies coming our way, suddenly this game is starting to look
good again, 3 out of 4 isn't a bad batting average after all. Now we can only hope they'll continue this trend towards better miniatures and concepts.
@Barzam
Yes the Concord are pretty much the "core" human faction, they mostly just use hi-tech weapons and nano enhanced armor but are still human underneath. I also remember there being some
enhanced/evolved humans who fill the elite and command roles of the concord army who are closing linked to the master AI, NuHu or something like that. I haven't really read the fluff
in pretty much a year so I might be getting this wrong, either way not much has been shown for the Concord yet other than the strike trooper above and the C3 trooper from the KS page.
The Algoryn and the Isorain that I've seen so far are very promising. I'm especially liking the ornate bio-baroque look of is Isorain. That Concord concept look pretty good as well - nice and gritty.
The Isorians are more the sort of thing I've been wanting to see a mini line do for a long time: organic armor. I know Infinity technically does it with the Tohaa, but this has more the visuals I was hoping to see with that sort of concept. Hopefully the Isorians will have some crazier looking variants down the line.
Awesome, thanks for the pics guys. It looks like the Algoryn and Concord trooper have printed up almost exact to their renders, hopefully that will transfer through
to the final casting, and the integrated bases while not preferred at least look relativity unobtrusive and easy to remove.
Did anyone manage to snap a pic of the Isorain trooper up close? Been looking around and haven't found a good picture anywhere, not a big deal if you haven't
we should get an update pretty soon.
edlowe wrote: Seems a lot of negativity towards GoA, I know alot of people, me included, were let down by the kickstarter, however I rather like the boromites and the setting as a whole.
It just seems people are trying to find bad points where they can I.e. calling hansa a porn star or saying the boromites are 80's flashbacks. I know some of this could be people trying to score 'internet cool' points but it seems there are people who just dont want to give this a chance.
You can go back and review the KS project for your "Internet cool point" comment.
Honestly what happened was that people were majorly let down by someone who was hailed as the second coming of scifi games based on past performance, then ran off in a snit when the product was not as presented.
Figures are OK. not stellar, but they are pretty good, compared to the market.
The game is shaping up very well, and could stand to have some love injected into it for the fans, not just to be touted out and teased.
They've already stated somewhere that its in the plan for them to have integrated bases. Is it a big deal? Not particularly, however, there is a lot of competition out there for hobby cash, and everything else being equal, if it comes down to it, I'd rather buy a mini with a slotta base, or nothing at all on the bottom.
My money is being split across x wing, infinity, dust, war machine, 40k and WHFB. The integrated bases are enough of a pain in the ass to put me off buying into their system, because there are a lot of other shines out there that don't take quite so long to prep. It may only take 5 minutes to fix, but times that 5 minutes by 40-50 models, and it gets boring fast...
That's great. You go for it. It takes me longer. Hansa took me a while to clip it off, file it down etc. I've been experimenting with scenic bases, so just glueing a flat bit of metal to the base doesn't work for me. Each to their own.
I personally think these figures looks really great, as does anything else in this exciting line.
Really?
And I'm with Eggs - integrated bases suck.
Silent wasn't talking about integral bases [anyway they look more like standard lip bases with toppers], but instead saying that some finely detailed, characterful miniatures somehow suck.
Silent wasn't talking about integral bases [anyway they look more like standard lip bases with toppers], but instead saying that some finely detailed, characterful miniatures somehow suck.
The late 80's/early 90's called and they want their mediocre sculpts back.
Sorry but those are finely detailed and characterful in the same way that the Mutant Chronicles and really old RT/2nd edition sculpts are in this day and age but have none of the nostalgia. I'll agree that the algoryns are much better but these things are straight up antiquated in both detail and styling.
Some people get stuck in a "new is always better" mindset. One of my favorite things about 90s approaches to miniatures was the great depth of detail make it easier to paint them. I'll take figures like these with nice deep details over a really cutting edge type sculpt with super shallow details,
I was fortunate enough to attend Salute and saw these guys up close and personal, I'd initally written them off going by the bad rep they've had on 'net forums... however, seeing them for real has completely changed my mind, they're actually very nice little models.
As was the Taurox, actually. Though Zinge's wheels might have had something to do with that
What really annoys me about the integrated bases issue is that they are removing them for promo figures. In the Salute photos from p.13, the Hansa figure has clearly had his integral base removed, and I'd be willing to bet that most of the Boromites have had the same treatment. Why even include them at all? Nostalgia?
It's how things are done in historicals. A small metal base that is glued onto the game base and then integrated into the base with basing material.
I've removed some of them from some metal Reaper models and it was a huge pain in the ass, but Warlord's integrated bases are usually a whole lot more slight.
I prefer small shallow integrated bases to slottabases/tabs by far.
I think in a lot of cases, these preferences have more to do with what's comfortable than an actual weighing of the pros and cons.
I think the Boromites are shaping up to be my favorite faction. Love the retro flash gordon rock man look plus their big rock canon.
Not too bothered about the intergrated bases, admittedly I hate them on Mantics warpath figures but thats to do with their plastic bases. I think they will be fine sunk into the GoA bases.
A little more information about the plan for Antares came out in an interview Rick Priestley. Here are a few things that stood out to me.
The focus is meant to be narrative games with roleplay elements.
It is intended as at most a large skirmish game. It can't get too much bigger because of the Bolt Action dice activation mechanic.
The goal is June/July for basic alpha version PDF download with basic infantry rules in it.
Model ranges should start to come out around the same time. Boromites first, but Algoryn around the same time.
They aim to have regular miniature releases between July and December 2014.
Very rough target of middle of 2015 for the finished rules to go on sale, though it depends on a lot of things that haven't even started yet.
The background is meant to be an open universe that people can add their own ideas to, and that new factions can be added to over time. There is intentionally huge scope for factions, individual Freeborn vardos, etc.
Boromite faction models are basically all done. The frag borer and mag launcher need to be 3D printed (or did at the time, as it looks like at least the frag borer was at Salute).
In general, an initial core playable force for a faction will be something like: 2-3 troop types, a command troop type, and around 3 support weapon troop types.
I already do sci-fi with Bolt Action + House Rules, so I'm sure the game will be good and functional.
The model ranges have differing levels of appeal, but it shouldn't be too hard to entirely proxy a given army given that it's standard sci-fi fare of humanoid troopers with guns + support.
If you've been following the news, there isn't anything really new, aside from what I've mentioned.
It was an excellent interview.
I like the sound of all the factions. And his candid talk about the Kickstarter and "sell more fish" at GW.
I'm in the process of organizing a sci-fi RPG campaign where the characters explore unknown space and find abandoned structures. I think I'll set it in this universe as it saves me from making up alien races and governments and whatnot.
The only thing I don't like: nano technology. At least in this case it doesn't sound like magic nanite clouds that can do anything. It sounds like they're used for communication and infrastructure with the only real weaponized version being a nanite destroying weapon that can disable an area's communication and power networks.
frozenwastes wrote: The only thing I don't like: nano technology. At least in this case it doesn't sound like magic nanite clouds that can do anything. It sounds like they're used for communication and infrastructure with the only real weaponized version being a nanite destroying weapon that can disable an area's communication and power networks.
Assuming you're not misreading things, it sounds like they changed it. Originally this setting had full-on nano-spank - fabricating weapons on the fly and all that garbage. Complete nonsense, and completely incompatible with a skirmish game when you could just cut out the middle-man and have your nanites disassemble invaders directly. So if they got rid of that, it's a definite step in the right direction.
AlexHolker wrote: Assuming you're not misreading things, it sounds like they changed it. Originally this setting had full-on nano-spank - fabricating weapons on the fly and all that garbage. Complete nonsense, and completely incompatible with a skirmish game when you could just cut out the middle-man and have your nanites disassemble invaders directly. So if they got rid of that, it's a definite step in the right direction.
It probably is a result that it was part of a conversation and Rick just didn't mention all the stupidity If it's been previously stated that there's nano-stupidity, there wasn't anything in the interview to suggest they changed that.
The Ghar reminds me of the vogon soldiers from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie. So long as the rules represent it as a lumbering tank of a soldier with all the drawbacks that entails, I don't mind it.
new previews look interesting, i do dig the whole world fluff is pretty liberal/open. It was one of the best things i loved about Vor when it was up and going. Don't limit your options and let people create their own stories.. even if it isn't official by leaving the door open it gives people more incentive to be creative.
For some reason i feel like the female boromite can be in a class of her own. Almost as if she could of been her own race.. i like it. Then again i never found too much of a problem with the boromites in general. Some people may say they look silly but personal preferences are a thing so..
The Ghar bot suit reminds me of the robot from "hitchhikers guide to the galaxy".. that isn't even a good or bad thing. It isn't spectacular in the way i think the concord/algoryn look (really dig the look). But it isn't repulsive in the same way i found those EXTREMELY ridiculous looking terminators in marsh mellow suits 40k has ::rolls eyes::
Seeing as they will have a few things done in the coming months that means i can look forward to see some really nice things done or at least previewed at this years GenCon. I can't wait!
" How do we save he boromites range?"
"Oooo oooooo, we add boobs on one and call it a woman, all the pubescent teens will buy it."
"That would have worked in the 80-90s, like the range, but now all the prepubescent teens are in their 30s and have wives"
"Yes but there's new teens all the time"
"But they are buying kingdom death sculpts which are much better"
"But ours will be cool"
"THEY ARE ROCKS WITH BOOBS!"
"........."
"Well we've already green lite it, so lets move on to the Ghar"
"Wait the midgets in terminator armor"
Well, at least the Ghar's design is still in the conceptual stage. I would hope that they're going to clean it up and make it at least look like it fits in with the rest of the line.
Overall the design and concept are rather disappointing, with a few average parts mixed in, it needs a breath of fresh air to unstuck it from the 80's....
I was hoping the ghar would end up looking like daleks brimming with spindly cybernetic limbs. Or failing that, like a mechanical version of predator. Or Samas from Metroid with extra evil. Or pretty much anything but what they actually released.
They look like they'd be really cute if you painted them up in bright and cheery colours like the vehicles from Advance Wars.
Loving the algoryn stuff though. And I think the female boromite actually works.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Overall the design and concept are rather disappointing, with a few average parts mixed in, it needs a breath of fresh air to unstuck it from the 80's....
And what's wrong with the 80's?
I actually quite like them for that reason.. they've got my 'Rogue Trader nostalgia' senses tingling, as well as being quite cool in their own right.
The perceived wrong in my eyes is the following, you can keep the retro look, but still deliver a modern era product, this is a retro product with a retro look.
BEYOND THE GATES OF ANTARES – SIGN UP NOW FOR THE ALPHA PLAYTEST
Our Beyond the Gates of Antares ruleset is now ready for the first stage of public playtesting: we call it the Alpha version. Our Alpha playtest program is open to all volunteers, and you can sign up simply by filling out the form below and registering as a playtester. Once you have signed up you will have access to the Antares Playtesters forum where soon you will be able to download the Alpha version of the Antares ruleset as a pdf. You will also be able to read the update files, post comments and participate in the discussion.
Anyone can sign up as an Alpha playtester without any obligation to participate in our development program. No doubt many will wish to do so simply to take a look at our work in progress, and that’s just fine by us. Either way, please bear in mind the Alpha ruleset is very much a work in progress and not yet a complete set of rules; although, we are hoping our Alpha playtesters will be helping us do something about that!
The Alpha ruleset therefore covers only a limited number of factions and the rules only allow for basic infantry combat at this stage. The objective of the Alpha playtest program is to stress test the core rules platform, and at the same time extending the rules to cover further factions and elements. Updates and errata to the rules will be published onto the Antares Playtesters forum over the course of the Alpha program, which is scheduled to last until November 2014.
So how long ago did h kickstarter flop? And we are just now seeing "Alpha" rules . Glad fulfillment wasn't going to be an issue.
Edit: okay, so I troubled myself to go back and look. Canceled funding in feb. of 2013. Original expected shipping was dec. 2013. "Alpha" rules and a few models shown July 2014
Presumably the $$$ they were going for would have sped up that process. I agree though that the original date was largely unrealistic given the (lack of) preparation shown during the aborted crowdfunding. It was basically a name famous in our hobby niche, a logo, one half done mini, and about as much info as you could fit on a single sheet of paper... while asking for over a half million dollars equivalent. It is definitely better for the community and frankly the game that this got to percolate alot longer behind the scenes without a glut of money gumming up the works.
Had they funded at half a million dollars, they would have gotten the rules out sooner. From what I understand listening to some interviews with Rick Priestly, things were intentionally slowed down after the KS failed. That they switched to a slower figure development timeline as well as moving their pre-alpha testing from being public to an extra long "friends and family" type playtest.
The KS was a pretty callous attempt at getting funds from chumps, but since it's failure, I can't fault too much about how this has gone forward from there.
I like the skin tones, but the armour looks a bit bland for my tastes, could have done with a few edge highlights to define the edges better and stop it looming a bit 'soft'
While they do look better painted than as just renders, I'm still not sold. The armor looks clunky and amateurish. They just don't hold up to other ranges, or even Hansa from the same game.
Plus, that write-up by the painter is doing him zero favors...
Theophony wrote: So how long ago did h kickstarter flop? And we are just now seeing "Alpha" rules . Glad fulfillment wasn't going to be an issue.
Edit: okay, so I troubled myself to go back and look. Canceled funding in feb. of 2013. Original expected shipping was dec. 2013. "Alpha" rules and a few models shown July 2014
While most companies use Kickstarter as a Pre-order, he was going to use it as an actual Kickstarter.
I've never been a fan of "I've got this amazing high tech armour everywhere, but no helmet" miniatures. It might be an issue with the angle, but it also looks like there's no way someone with a head like those without helmets could possibly fit into the helmets of the ones who are wearing them.
I think these might be great figures to remove/drill out the heads and replace them with new helmeted ones. Though the second guy from the left isn't as bad as the tiny head the middle guy has.
I think them, but the head size mismatch and no helmets is a problem I'd have to fix.
So, what you're saying is that they aren't worth bothering with when there are so many other models on the market in the same or better material for the same or better price, but that don't need massive work to become presentable?
'Cause if so, you're saying what we're all feeling.
Am I alone here in thinking that the guy in the center has a tiny, tiny head? Perhaps it's intended to be some really odd angle but... what angle could you hold your head at to accomplish this?
PsychoticStorm wrote: Overall the design and concept are rather disappointing, with a few average parts mixed in, it needs a breath of fresh air to unstuck it from the 80's....
As much as I want to like GoA, this is exactly the feeling I get. GoA is like a mish mosh of all the ideas that didn't get into Rogue Trader.
Playtest document is up. I've only really glanced at it. The obese power armour and helmetless miniatures to show off their alienness has really sapped my interest in the direction of this project, but I'll take a closer look later.
I just struggle too see why anyone should look at it? What's different about it? Unique? Amazing minis? It's humdrum and only the author is getting this any attention, I am perplexed why Warlord is risking anything on this.
TwilightSparkles wrote: I just struggle too see why anyone should look at it? What's different about it? Unique? Amazing minis? It's humdrum and only the author is getting this any attention, I am perplexed why Warlord is risking anything on this.
I'm quietly interested in this. The kickstarter was a travesty, but some of these minis might be worth a look once the range is larger - even the fat dwarf termie. Those power armoured aliens even seem to be channelling Infinity. The only model I actively dislike is that freeborn human with the fur cloak.
Edit: Just wish they weren't metal, I hate metal minis.
Some updates for this game, Alpha Rules are now apparently available for playtest (has anyone downloaded the rules for this yet? I've signed up on the forum so hopefully will have a go at some point)
Some new miniatures have appeared also, guns for two of the factions
For the rest, the basic designs are ok (although they're a bit chest-heavy) but the posing is awkward. Running guys with the foot flat on the ground, guys aiming down the sights with the support foot on tippy-toe, guys kneeling with the knee off the ground... and the rest are just 'stiff'. Like they're posing for a photo, rather than a snapshot of a guy in motion.
Yeah, after really getting excited for this project, to the point I was pledging a fortune on kickstarter, it's been an utter anti climax for me. Look at what is out there just now for infinity, malifaux, dust, war machine, 40k etc, and these just look second rate sadly.
I really like that Boromite Mag Light and the Concord plasma drone and heavy plasma cannon. I basically can't get enough drones. There is something about the Concord designs that makes them look a little bit off but I can't quite put my finger on it. The Algoryn are growing on me.
Guildsman wrote: They look great... just 10+ years behind the times in terms of sculpt quality.
Exactly what I've been thinking this whole time. These would be awesome if it was the turn of the millennium. But compared with what many other non-GW companies are currently producing, these are inferior in nearly every way, from concept to design to execution. These aren't *bad* per se, but compared to what, say, Malifaux is producing, it's not even in the same echelon.
Guildsman wrote: They look great... just 10+ years behind the times in terms of sculpt quality.
Exactly what I've been thinking this whole time. These would be awesome if it was the turn of the millennium. But compared with what many other non-GW companies are currently producing, these are inferior in nearly every way, from concept to design to execution. These aren't *bad* per se, but compared to what, say, Malifaux is producing, it's not even in the same echelon.
-C6
I own a few packs and while they certainly have a "retro" feel to them, the detail is very crisp.Unlike Mailfaux's plastics.
I got some free figs from the Warlord "free figures in October" special, and they are really, really well detailed and excellent casts. Algoryn infantry I think. Power armor with rifles.
Strange head proportions aside, I quite like these guys. The problem I have with them is that I think they're supposed to be aliens, but with their helmets on there's nothing about their anatomy to suggest they aren't just humans in armour. Even with the helmets off they're taking the star trek approach to alien physiognomy.
After seeing the new releases for GOA, I am very disappointed with the pricing. $38.00 for 5 guys and 2 drones? What is that? I guess we were spoiled with the pricing on their historical models. Too bad. I really like the models but not at that price.
I wonder if the 'cast for order' thing has anything to do with the pricing? You can't imagine this line selling anything like the volume of the historical ranges.
It comes to £24 in GB pound money which isn't too bad I suppose, I assume at some point they will be supplemented with a range of plastics which seems to happen to every other range Warlord releases at some point (going again on their historicals) and I believe was the original intention of the GoAKS.
Saw some of the GoA minis in the flesh for the first time the other weekend, was surprised by how nicely sculpted they are. A lot of detail on them, and in the case of the Algoryn they are well proportioned.
Just saw these pics on FB actually which are some of the best examples I have seen
Those are pretty cool. They're very close to getting a "totally awesome" from me. I think it's the overuse of sloping. The shoulders are sloped. The guns are sloped. The ones that look the best are the ones with optics breaking up their smooth surfaces and without the sloped rifles in their hands.
They might be great candidates for a weapon swap and some conversion bits in the form of equipment or optics on the helmets or shoulders.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlexHolker wrote:The designs are nice, but they make GW look cheap.
Before I clicked on the links I tried to estimate the price I think would be fair and came to £12.50 for the squad and £50 for the group deal. £20 and £70 is way high. Especially given what I'd need to spend in terms of conversion bits to deal with their shortcomings.
I believe the higher cost of these comes from them being "made to order." For some reason they don't keep stock of these and only produce them if they get orders. I suppose that'll change when they release the final rules and have all of the factions available though.
I actually really like the look of the Concord troops. They're nice, generic sci-fi. If they were cheaper, I'd totally get some to use as generic mooks.
Barzam wrote: I believe the higher cost of these comes from them being "made to order." For some reason they don't keep stock of these and only produce them if they get orders. I suppose that'll change when they release the final rules and have all of the factions available though.
No, it comes from the lead developer being a dinosaur still stuck in the 1980s who thinks metal is the best way to build an army.
Barzam wrote: I believe the higher cost of these comes from them being "made to order." For some reason they don't keep stock of these and only produce them if they get orders. I suppose that'll change when they release the final rules and have all of the factions available though.
No, it comes from the lead developer being a dinosaur still stuck in the 1980s who thinks metal is the best way to build an army.
While I often appreciate your acerbic wit in other posts, think this is being a bit unfair. Warlord under Rick Priestly has pretty much ushered in a new era of plastics in the historicals scene, I think they were narrowly beaten by some of the Perry miniatures box sets, but their plastic Romans and Celts were at the fore-front of a mass of new plastic releases and now barely a month goes by without the release of a new plastic kit.
They're also doing the same with their vehicle range, releasing a bunch of very reasonably priced plastic vehicles with Italieri.
The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this. Right now, I'm sure most Warlord fans would prefer that the company keep their resources directed towards Bolt Action and their other historical ranges. Eventually perhaps the number of players of GoA will grow to the point where Warlord can afford to sink tens of thousands of pounds into some plastic moulds, but for now I think this is the right way to go about it. For now, for the 'early adopters' £70 to play the game isn't too bad, especially as you can download the beta rules for free.
Pacific wrote: Saw some of the GoA minis in the flesh for the first time the other weekend, was surprised by how nicely sculpted they are. A lot of detail on them, and in the case of the Algoryn they are well proportioned.
Just saw these pics on FB actually which are some of the best examples I have seen
<snipped pics>
Those do look better, I think the paint job and higher angel photographs make all the difference.
Pacific wrote: The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this.
Considering a) the game is not released, b) you can use any minis you want with the beta rules, therefore c) these minis are produced basically for the few people that want to buy them to play it with. They are made to order and direct order only, and not available through the normal Warlord retail distribution chain.
After the disaster of the kickstarter, I'm just kind of semi paying attention to the game to see if they release a good Alygorn model to use as a Garrus standin.
Pacific wrote: The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this.
Considering a) the game is not released, b) you can use any minis you want with the beta rules, therefore c) these minis are produced basically for the few people that want to buy them to play it with. They are made to order and direct order only, and not available through the normal Warlord retail distribution chain.
Brookhurst Hobbies has half a dozen Gates of Antares boxes just sitting there. They must be out for distribution. Maybe most retailers have better sense than to order any in?
Also, I'm not sure how Warlord expects to help GoA find an audience or gain its feet by associating the brand with high prices for terrible sculpts in metal during a boom time of cheap, good quality plastics.
It's definitely not doing them any favors, no. Especially if you were around for the KS and remember that they were asking for seven figures right off the bat with literally nothing to show you, except for a model later on that was designed by committee and kinda "meh" at best.
Yes, it's quite clear they're banking too heavily off the names and nostalgia.
The sculpts are iffy, but I blame that more on the older design sense of the game's designers. Sculptors can only do so much when the designs lack interest. Unless the sculptor is the designer.
However, the rules look good from what I've read. It's a D10 version of Bolt Action, finally fleshed out with more detail and hopefully balance. I was surprised that they're pulling from the same sources as me for certain mechanics.
Well, if game mechanics were all that mattered, we'd all be playing BoardGame Geek 1, 7, 12, ,14 and 57. Background, flavor, aesthetics and miniatures matter to many of us. And Gates of Antares isn't delivering any of those things in quality.
But I suppose if the rules are just that good I can always play them with my Eisenkern and my Proxie Models Mooks.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Brookhurst Hobbies has half a dozen Gates of Antares boxes just sitting there. They must be out for distribution. Maybe most retailers have better sense than to order any in?
Also, I'm not sure how Warlord expects to help GoA find an audience or gain its feet by associating the brand with high prices for terrible sculpts in metal during a boom time of cheap, good quality plastics.
If a retailer has a direct account with Warlord they can order any of their items for retail sale. (If they order Warlord thru ACD, Alliance, Warpath/Golden, etc, they only have access to normal distribution)
Pacific wrote: The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this.
Considering a) the game is not released, b) you can use any minis you want with the beta rules, therefore c) these minis are produced basically for the few people that want to buy them to play it with. They are made to order and direct order only, and not available through the normal Warlord retail distribution chain.
Brookhurst Hobbies has half a dozen Gates of Antares boxes just sitting there. They must be out for distribution. Maybe most retailers have better sense than to order any in?
Also, I'm not sure how Warlord expects to help GoA find an audience or gain its feet by associating the brand with high prices for terrible sculpts in metal during a boom time of cheap, good quality plastics.
I was chatting to a chap from Warlord the other week at a show, he reckoned that the range was selling reasonably well. There seems to be a fair amount of chatter about it both online and around clubs/shows etc.
Obviously, I don't think it's going to start challenging even Warmachine or Infinity any time soon, but it certainly has people that are interested in it, and it's rare that you hear a bad account of their rule system. I actually think the sculpts are pretty nice, although I realise such a thing is subjective, and having seen them in person they are nicely sculpted and have some very delicate detail on them.
I'd like to see it gradually build up steam, I might buy a set of the Algoryn just to paint one up like Garrus from Mass Effect in the meantime
Pacific wrote: Obviously, I don't think it's going to start challenging even Warmachine or Infinity any time soon, but it certainly has people that are interested in it, and it's rare that you hear a bad account of their rule system. I actually think the sculpts are pretty nice, although I realise such a thing is subjective, and having seen them in person they are nicely sculpted and have some very delicate detail on them.
I got one of the Algoryn guys a couple months ago when Warlord was throwing in a free mini with every order. I really like the model, and he's TALL. I'll try to remember to post a size comparison.
Barzam wrote: I believe the higher cost of these comes from them being "made to order." For some reason they don't keep stock of these and only produce them if they get orders. I suppose that'll change when they release the final rules and have all of the factions available though.
No, it comes from the lead developer being a dinosaur still stuck in the 1980s who thinks metal is the best way to build an army.
You're both wrong - though Alex gets extra points for being needlessly insulting and Ad Hominem. I've been buying quite a lot of metal from Warlord's Historical ranges lately - much of those being made to order, larger models (including Cavalry) and most sinister - metal units for an army and they're, priced nowhere near what these are.
I can't really fathom why they're priced like that excepting the usual "sci-fi, economies of scale, blablah, etc." Mantic does a bit of this as well - But it does stop me taking a second look at them.
There is already a BA conversion for 40k out there, Bolter Action or something. I want to try it with HH models one day, probably after winning the lotto.
I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.
Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.
While I often appreciate your acerbic wit in other posts, think this is being a bit unfair. Warlord under Rick Priestly has pretty much ushered in a new era of plastics in the historicals scene, I think they were narrowly beaten by some of the Perry miniatures box sets, but their plastic Romans and Celts were at the fore-front of a mass of new plastic releases and now barely a month goes by without the release of a new plastic kit.
They're also doing the same with their vehicle range, releasing a bunch of very reasonably priced plastic vehicles with Italieri.
The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this. Right now, I'm sure most Warlord fans would prefer that the company keep their resources directed towards Bolt Action and their other historical ranges. Eventually perhaps the number of players of GoA will grow to the point where Warlord can afford to sink tens of thousands of pounds into some plastic moulds, but for now I think this is the right way to go about it. For now, for the 'early adopters' £70 to play the game isn't too bad, especially as you can download the beta rules for free.
While I agree that Alex was being unfair, Priestly is a freelance rules writer, he doesn't appear to be "on staff" at Warlord (though that may possibly have changed with GoA, or they might just be a linked association), but Warlord is run by Stallard and Sawyer, so "under Priestly" should really be "with Priestly' input" perhaps, though again, he's writing rules as a freelancer, not designing or organising plastic kits. The credit for those is elsewhere in the WLG organisation.
I also don't buy them being a new range as a valid reason for their (over) pricing of them. We're also not talking about a new piece of technology where the early adopters need to pay a premium because of higher component and manufacturing costs - it's actually moving volume that will bring these to profit faster, and as we know, the better the price, the more that people on the fence will give it a try, and then they'll play, and others will see the models and game in action, and so on and on.
mitch_rifle wrote: some of the dreamforge stuff could probably work if the rules are good
And there's the rub. Everyone in sci-fi and fantasy wants to be a special unique snowflake and have the GW/Warhammer model of their own. At least many historical manufacturers don't go down that road to the same extent. (Seeing the very same Warlord stocking Victrix, Perry, Gripping Beast, while Battlefront is the other way.)
I think the notion that a company making sci-fi minis is automatically trying to make their own 40k is laughable.
These are a totally different from 40k if that was what you're implying. Are there factions? Are they sci-fi? Are some of them in armor? Yeah.. but other than the pricing, what do these guys have in common with the old Geedub?
MLaw wrote: I think the notion that a company making sci-fi minis is automatically trying to make their own 40k is laughable.
These are a totally different from 40k if that was what you're implying. Are there factions? Are they sci-fi? Are some of them in armor? Yeah.. but other than the pricing, what do these guys have in common with the old Geedub?
I think he is talking about how they want to make models for their rules and rules for their models.
MLaw wrote: I think the notion that a company making sci-fi minis is automatically trying to make their own 40k is laughable.
These are a totally different from 40k if that was what you're implying. Are there factions? Are they sci-fi? Are some of them in armor? Yeah.. but other than the pricing, what do these guys have in common with the old Geedub?
I'll be polite and explain rather than my first instinct. I'm talking about the 40k model. Which is why I said that. This means "our game plus our models" with little to no cooperation or acknowledgement of others' products. With the result that there are a million little lines all with their own backstories, models and so forth. While I like Tre Manor a lot, he wants to make two games to go with his slightly-different fantasy model lines, and is obviously hoping for them to be successful and popular. I don't like his chances. Dreamforge and whatever his game is called. GoA. And so on and on it goes when some form of co-production between good rules writers and good model manufacturers could do so much better than putting so much work into a dozen more completely discrete game lines destined to be forgotten in 5 years. Imagine GoA or Mantic's Warpath with Dramforge's Space-Not-Nazis-No-Really as an official faction. I don't see a loser there - and huge benefits for both companies.
While I often appreciate your acerbic wit in other posts, think this is being a bit unfair. Warlord under Rick Priestly has pretty much ushered in a new era of plastics in the historicals scene, I think they were narrowly beaten by some of the Perry miniatures box sets, but their plastic Romans and Celts were at the fore-front of a mass of new plastic releases and now barely a month goes by without the release of a new plastic kit.
They're also doing the same with their vehicle range, releasing a bunch of very reasonably priced plastic vehicles with Italieri.
The GoA miniatures are expensive because they are a new range, and they are obviously being produced in very limited numbers. The game has to find its feet, and its obviously going to take a year or two to do this. Right now, I'm sure most Warlord fans would prefer that the company keep their resources directed towards Bolt Action and their other historical ranges. Eventually perhaps the number of players of GoA will grow to the point where Warlord can afford to sink tens of thousands of pounds into some plastic moulds, but for now I think this is the right way to go about it. For now, for the 'early adopters' £70 to play the game isn't too bad, especially as you can download the beta rules for free.
While I agree that Alex was being unfair, Priestly is a freelance rules writer, he doesn't appear to be "on staff" at Warlord (though that may possibly have changed with GoA, or they might just be a linked association), but Warlord is run by Stallard and Sawyer, so "under Priestly" should really be "with Priestly' input" perhaps, though again, he's writing rules as a freelancer, not designing or organising plastic kits. The credit for those is elsewhere in the WLG organisation.
Yes, perhaps 'with Priestly's input' is probably a better way of putting it, although he did mention in an article recently in a wargaming mag how proud he was of their plastics ranges and the company breaking new ground with them, so you have to think he leans in that direction, rather than wanting to produce metal as AlexHolker was implying.
I probably still give much too credit in any case as I still imagine the guy levitating 6 inches above the ground and with a halo of light hovering above his head unfortunately, thanks to him being the architect of 40k
Barzam wrote: Has anyone on here actually tried out the rules? I'd be curious to know if they're easy to pick up.
Tis neither Bolt Action nor Infinity but a mixture of the two. Activations etc are pretty standard BA, reactions are more Infinity-esque. As a system, it works. However the current faction rules and stats lack a little character, which is understandable at the point they are at.
judgedoug wrote: Size comparison with GWLOTR Harad and Bolt Action German crewman
Is the size of the alien bigger than a human or are they all that size? If yes they made the same strange size decision as Dystopian legions, it is like they don't want the extra sales to the converting crowd.
judgedoug wrote: Size comparison with GWLOTR Harad and Bolt Action German crewman
Is the size of the alien bigger than a human or are they all that size? If yes they made the same strange size decision as Dystopian legions, it is like they don't want the extra sales to the converting crowd.
Just killed all my interest in the game.
You must remember that the comparison pics were to LOTR and Bolt Action figures. so unless you want to give Hobbits laser guns, there may still be hope for conversions. It would be useful to see them next to a SM. I suspect that they are not much larger than one. All of this being said, I think that they are a bit big for space elves. Maybe I will pick some up.
Unless someone beats me too it I can post a picture comparison tonight of an Algoryn, Space Marine and Eldar.
The only factions available so far are "humans" just of different genetic types. I haven't compared because I don't have the others but the Bromites seem shorter than Algoryn but I don't know what the size of the Concorde are. The Gharn (sp?) are obviously smaller.
I have to admit while at first I thought the price was high playing the game and having them in metal* they seem worth it to me now.
*Yes, I know metal is cheaper but for me, right now this works. When the plastics are released I'll probably buy those too.
I haven't bothered to look at the latter because of the former but admittedly there is a variety in the quality of the sculpts IMO. The rock people things were straight out of the early to mid 1990s in quality and style (which, given the lead designer, may be what they were going for) with none of the attached nostalgia that would get me to buy anything from that time. The algoryn were better digital sculpts but nothing about them stands out for me enough to want to buy them. Ironically, the best mini I've seen previewed in the line is the campy 70's porn star they debuted with. At best ho-hum minis combined with the hubris of the failed KS turned me off to the minis but I've heard good things about Bolt Action rules so a scifi version piques my interest a bit even if I won't use them with any minis from the same company so far.
Problem with most of the minis is that they're awfully generic looking and they don't look that much apart from one another, it's like Mass Effect all over again.
judgedoug wrote: Size comparison with GWLOTR Harad and Bolt Action German crewman
Is the size of the alien bigger than a human or are they all that size? If yes they made the same strange size decision as Dystopian legions, it is like they don't want the extra sales to the converting crowd.
Just killed all my interest in the game.
Dunno, that's the only model I have. It's conceivable they are a "bigger race". I know the Hansa model that was a human was more in line with normal 28mm figures.
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spaceelf wrote: You must remember that the comparison pics were to LOTR and Bolt Action figures. so unless you want to give Hobbits laser guns, there may still be hope for conversions. It would be useful to see them next to a SM. I suspect that they are not much larger than one. All of this being said, I think that they are a bit big for space elves. Maybe I will pick some up.
Unfortunately I do not have any more Space Marines in my life. Though I do have some Chaos Cultists and some Eldar guardians if that would help?
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.
Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.
Again, I am pretty sure they're releasing the models because people have asked for them. In the time between the original GoA kickstarter and now, Warlord has heavily invested in a partnership with a plastics manufacturing company and have also partnered with Italeri. The GoA models have also been offered to the Warlord Sarge demo people to receive/paint/playtest in preparation for a launch later this year. It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.
BrookM wrote: That's what Gates of Ants needs, more alien species that don't look human.
For better or worse, the four factions explored so far are all humans (or post-/meta-/evolved-/sci-fi-catchphrase-of-the-moment-humans); but I agree with your point that some more unusual figures – alien in form, if not in background – might catch more people's interest (mine included).
Of course, that needs to be balanced against the people that like the more hard sci-fi feel of everything being human-descended, in which case keeping everything human-based is a selling point.
BrookM wrote: That's what Gates of Ants needs, more alien species that don't look human.
For better or worse, the four factions explored so far are all humans (or post-/meta-/evolved-/sci-fi-catchphrase-of-the-moment-humans); but I agree with your point that some more unusual figures – alien in form, if not in background – might catch more people's interest (mine included).
Of course, that needs to be balanced against the people that like the more hard sci-fi feel of everything being human-descended, in which case keeping everything human-based is a selling point.
A difficult balance!
Personally it's the Alien/Zerg/Tyranid/Bug style races that attracts me to Sci Fi games.
As Apologist says, one of the central points of the universe was that it's a 'hard' sci-fi, with all of the races having evolved from Homo Sapiens. If they did introduce aliens, it would have to be done conscientiously to keep with that setting (if they did indeed want to stick to that idea)
Regarding size, I believe the Algoryn are taller than the other races - the Boromites are squatter.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.
Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.
Again, I am pretty sure they're releasing the models because people have asked for them. In the time between the original GoA kickstarter and now, Warlord has heavily invested in a partnership with a plastics manufacturing company and have also partnered with Italeri. The GoA models have also been offered to the Warlord Sarge demo people to receive/paint/playtest in preparation for a launch later this year. It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.
I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.
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Pacific wrote: As Apologist says, one of the central points of the universe was that it's a 'hard' sci-fi, with all of the races having evolved from Homo Sapiens. If they did introduce aliens, it would have to be done conscientiously to keep with that setting (if they did indeed want to stick to that idea)
Regarding size, I believe the Algoryn are taller than the other races - the Boromites are squatter.
There's no reason they can't have non-humanoid machines or bio-engineered/uplifted Terran species. There's also no reason all the human descendants have to look human. If people are willing to look like He-Man rock monsters for the sake of a job, there will damn well be people taking future cosplay into the realms of insanity.
warboss wrote: Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.
Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.
warboss wrote: Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.
Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.
Isn't that what one of the factions in Infinity did?
judgedoug wrote: It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.
I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.
Haha, I totally agree though. It would make sense, based on the models they've shown thus far, to do a Bolt Action style sprue arrangement for them. 5-6 bodies per sprue with different heads and arms/weapons including special weapons plus drones. Support weapons and characters and whatnot in metal as you don't need that many.
judgedoug wrote: It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.
I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.
Haha, I totally agree though. It would make sense, based on the models they've shown thus far, to do a Bolt Action style sprue arrangement for them. 5-6 bodies per sprue with different heads and arms/weapons including special weapons plus drones. Support weapons and characters and whatnot in metal as you don't need that many.
See, I would be all over that. Drones on the sprue would also double their perceived value to me. Separate heads, arms and weapons open them up to lots of converting or personalization. I wouldn't buy the metal models, but I would stop making fun of them if they gave us nice plastics.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: See, I would be all over that. Drones on the sprue would also double their perceived value to me. Separate heads, arms and weapons open them up to lots of converting or personalization. I wouldn't buy the metal models, but I would stop making fun of them if they gave us nice plastics.
Then I guess we'll see for later in the year when it launches!
Warlord loves starter box sets, packed full of two starter armies worth of plastics at huge discounts ala Assault on Normany, D-Day Firefight, Armoured Fury, For King & Country, Conquest of Gaul, etc. If they want Gates of Antares to sell at all, it'll have to be a similar arrangement. I'd bet on at least two plastic infantry sprues for the GoA launch.
durecellrabbit wrote: From this thread Warlord say the prices are higher because non-historical have high costs in designing and sculpting the models.
Personally it's the Alien/Zerg/Tyranid/Bug style races that attracts me to Sci Fi games.
And Historicals take more time because of research, to get it time correct? Strange that Reaper can have cheap sf metals as other companies, just seems like an excuse to price it closer to the Porsche of miniature makers.
Have to admit pricing puts me off this, it's higher than discounted 40k with the "benefit" of a near non existent player base......
I first got into non GW stuff because of pricing - fed up of £200-£100 just to field a basic force , yet the £70 starters for this seem to represent an absolute minimum force, an equivalent to at least 500 points in GW, which would buy me 2-3 times more models with a ton of options.
Yeah, it's a new system, but that in itself is not a reason for it to exist or to justify crazy pricing. As a KS I still think it would fail with the current pricing.
warboss wrote: Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.
Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.
Isn't that what one of the factions in Infinity did?
Aye, these things, gene-spliced people used in underground fighting tournaments
Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.
Pete Melvin wrote: Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.
I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).
It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".
Pete Melvin wrote: Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.
I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).
It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".
By that logic almost no game is particularly suited to the truely alien since most tend to deal with weapons fire as if it were rifle fire (in the case of ground actions) or like tradition naval actions (in the case of space). In 40k a bolter fires the same way as a Tyranid splinter cannon for example. Firestorm Armada Sorylian ships fire the same way as a Dystopin Wars FSA ship does (more or less).
Im sure you could come up with vastly different firing rules for huge swathes of different weapons, with directed energy weapons firing one way and ballistic weapons firing another but most systems dont deal with that level of granularity.
Those bases they are on are 30mm wide. So these miniatures are very, very tall. If these are meant to be human sized then this game is not at all 28mm scale. It looks more like Dystopian Legions:
Not really interested in that level of scale creep. It would make the doors and window height of my sci-fi terrain look all wrong.
I do get the prices though as we're pretty much talking about ogre sized miniatures for everything.
Pete Melvin wrote: Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.
Pacific wrote: What we really need is a side-by-side shot of the Algoryns compared to the Boromites and the Concord miniatures (the latter in particular).
I have a strong inkling that the Algoryn are meant to be somewhat larger, and aren't indicative of a larger scale for this game.
And the different Algoryn side by side. I can see that the infiltrators have lighter armor but I'm not sure if the assault squad as the elite type have the same or heavier armor. They have different weapons and possibly helmets but I'm not sure about the armor. The only side by side pic I found is the following. I also mistakenly referred to the posted concord pics earlier in the thread as algoryn. These guys I actually like the scuplts for and can see why someone would use them for mass effect counts as figs.
The beta rulebook mentions aliens very briefly. The only one mentioned by named are called Vorl but there is little else on them other than they fight themselves, get hired as mercs and are as advanced as the humans.
So they might as well be humans, then? I'm okay with the background keeping it all in the family, so long as they add some kickass diversity to the family. I don't mean rockmen, either.
Where are the people engineering themselves to look like gods or monsters of legend? The people who aren't attached to the human form and go for something outlandish? Or the people who just want to make a sentient sharktopus because they can?
Automatically Appended Next Post: What I mean is, what is the point of having factions if they all look and act alike, excepting some forehead bumps.
In fairness (and I don't really have a horse in this race), the four factions do have some nice distinctive design traits - at least as much as Infinity (where the only alien factions are mostly humanoid), or Rogue Trader, for example.
In addition, the rulebook (still in beta, remember) and background does leave the door open for weird gribbly aliens in the future.
Pacific wrote: What we really need is a side-by-side shot of the Algoryns compared to the Boromites and the Concord miniatures (the latter in particular).
I have a strong inkling that the Algoryn are meant to be somewhat larger, and aren't indicative of a larger scale for this game.
I bit the bullet and I have some GoA minis coming to me - when they get here I'll do a comparison with LOTR, BA, 40K, WHFB, etc etc
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Wonderwolf wrote: I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).
It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".
I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.
I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.
While the level of accuracy in that comparison varies depending on edition (less so in 2nd ed 40k, moreso now than in 5th, etc), it is at least at its most basic form correct. I can't speak for BA though but I don't think there is any bad baggage or negativity associated with calling it so in case you're thinking that.
I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.
While the level of accuracy in that comparison varies depending on edition (less so in 2nd ed 40k, moreso now than in 5th, etc), it is at least at its most basic form correct. I can't speak for BA though but I don't think there is any bad baggage or negativity associated with calling it so in case you're thinking that.
Oh, no, I love and play Bolt Action almost weekly, so I'm pretty intimately familiar with the rules. GoA is not just modified, but heavily modified.
Hey everybody, got my baby order with a couple boxes in it. Algoryn armored infantry and Boromite miner guys.
Couple things I noticed off the bat:
each unit comes in it's own mini box. Included are the figures, along with an order die, and the new plastic lipped bases.
Casts are universally crisp, with almost no flash.
All heads are separate, and all poses within a unit are unique.
I really like the sculpts.
If I think about it, I'll post some size comparisons this weekend. If I have some free time I may paint a fig or two.
Hey everybody, got my baby order with a couple boxes in it. Algoryn armored infantry and Boromite miner guys.
Couple things I noticed off the bat:
each unit comes in it's own mini box. Included are the figures, along with an order die, and the new plastic lipped bases.
Casts are universally crisp, with almost no flash.
All heads are separate, and all poses within a unit are unique.
I really like the sculpts.
If I think about it, I'll post some size comparisons this weekend. If I have some free time I may paint a fig or two.
Really looking forward to those pics. I'll be at Salute this year and may pick up a squad or two and hopefully they will be doing demo's of the game.
judgedoug wrote: Size comparison with GWLOTR Harad and Bolt Action German crewman
Is the size of the alien bigger than a human or are they all that size? If yes they made the same strange size decision as Dystopian legions, it is like they don't want the extra sales to the converting crowd.
Just killed all my interest in the game.
Dunno, that's the only model I have. It's conceivable they are a "bigger race". I know the Hansa model that was a human was more in line with normal 28mm figures.
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spaceelf wrote: You must remember that the comparison pics were to LOTR and Bolt Action figures. so unless you want to give Hobbits laser guns, there may still be hope for conversions. It would be useful to see them next to a SM. I suspect that they are not much larger than one. All of this being said, I think that they are a bit big for space elves. Maybe I will pick some up.
Unfortunately I do not have any more Space Marines in my life. Though I do have some Chaos Cultists and some Eldar guardians if that would help?
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.
Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.
Again, I am pretty sure they're releasing the models because people have asked for them. In the time between the original GoA kickstarter and now, Warlord has heavily invested in a partnership with a plastics manufacturing company and have also partnered with Italeri. The GoA models have also been offered to the Warlord Sarge demo people to receive/paint/playtest in preparation for a launch later this year. It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.
while he's a bit bulkier, Hansa does not look out of place with my infinity PanO. Regular 28mm scaling there (and not even all that heroic).
What is most bizarre to me is that Warlord will pay to make injection plastic kits of pretty obscure vehicles or WWII infantry. The sci-fi market has to be larger than those that want to game WWII with the Japanese right? Even a so so plastic release would have to sell more than even a stellar WWII release. Right? Maybe not, but it would seem worth the gamble.
The problem SF games have is their vehicles are not generic
a (good) Chi Ha will work for any WWII game at that scale, no arguments, no fuss, no discussion. Even if the companies rules fail it will still sell,
plus there are plenty of collectors/builders of just WWII tank/vehicle kits too
but an SF tank has to look right for the feel of the system (a tank aimed at Infinity will not look right in 40K),
If a player does not feel it suits their vision of the game it will not sell,
if an opponent does not feel it suits their vision of the game they may not choose to play against you (most likely to happen with stranger pick up gaming, but it is an issue)
so there is a lot more risk involved in your SF tank
Yeah, random generic-ish sci-fi tank for an unproved game with little to no following isn't going to be a scratch on a WWII vehicle or unit of WWII infantry.
I'm sorry, but we had high hopes for this one, and they got stomped into the mud.
Game and figures still look gaktastic.. Wish they would have been a lot more serious about putting together a decent well rounded scifi game, instead of ego-stroking.
Gallahad wrote: What is most bizarre to me is that Warlord will pay to make injection plastic kits of pretty obscure vehicles or WWII infantry. The sci-fi market has to be larger than those that want to game WWII with the Japanese right? Even a so so plastic release would have to sell more than even a stellar WWII release. Right? Maybe not, but it would seem worth the gamble.
Absolutely not. A WW2 release will sell extraordinarily well to the 28mm ww2 historicals market, especially if it's a vehicle. Resin 28mm vehicles are expensive. Plastic ones are not. If you are collecting a nation and need a tank, you buy what that nation historically had.
A hard plastic sci fi release for an unreleased game would probably sell not at all, because some portion of the market wouldn't like it and then turn around and buy another Taurox.
Wait; are you saying the Japanese are an obscure WW2 infantry release? Better not say that around a Marine
-DE- wrote: Those prices give me a headache. Makes GW look cheap by comparison.
I don't think they're benchmarking themselves against GW.
Still three times the miniatures you get for the same price from Corvus Belli. And a bit cheaper than PP too. GW's quickly turning into the "cheap" company these days, it seems
£68 - for 16 GW models + 1 cherub thing
£70 - for 19 models + 5 Flying drone type things.
Edit - I was trying to figure out what it was I didn't like about these models. The basing is terrible. It does them no favours.
How about 2 x $39 AM Skitarii? $78 for 20 models vs $122 for 19 models. On top of that, the former are properly multi-pose with tons of extra parts, while the latter look to be single-part with no options. Dark Eldar Warriors, which look very close to the Freeborn, are even cheaper, at $29 per box. Throw in the fact that I can readily order GW at 25% off, and the comparison makes GoA a worse proposition still.
I've no idea how large GoA armies are supposed to be. Does anybody at this point? Are the rules even up yet?
If it's similar to Bolt Action then I'm running about 70 models + a tank in my Japanese army with rather large squad sizes. These GoA starter squad sizes make it look like they're closer to a more elite army of around 40 models.
£68 - for 16 GW models + 1 cherub thing
£70 - for 19 models + 5 Flying drone type things.
Edit - I was trying to figure out what it was I didn't like about these models. The basing is terrible. It does them no favours.
How about 2 x $39 AM Skitarii? $78 for 20 models vs $122 for 19 models. On top of that, the former are properly multi-pose with tons of extra parts, while the latter look to be single-part with no options. Dark Eldar Warriors, which look very close to the Freeborn, are even cheaper, at $29 per box. Throw in the fact that I can readily order GW at 25% off, and the comparison makes GoA a worse proposition still.
I've no idea how large GoA armies are supposed to be. Does anybody at this point? Are the rules even up yet?
I'm not batting for or against GoA. I just chose models to build a similar style force as The GoA one, with GW's most popular faction. (A bunch of grunts, some heay weapons, a charater model)
Accolade wrote: Does the game have some form of balancing mechanic to make up for not having points? (Genuine question)
It has a static army list for each faction, but players are welcome to add or drop "units of comparable type" to keep it even.
In their defense, it's a WIP.
I think since the KS went Pete Tong they have been at a loss on how to present the game. Maybe they are just using the BA ruleset until they get something solid together. TBH I would jump on the game for the pedigree alone but the price and lack of a solid ruleset makes me th7nk again.
The rules available are the beta version and have been available for a long time now - that's why there are no points as of yet, the purpose of these rules has been to test core mechanics. Points won't come until later, remember the game hasn't actually launched properly yet, it's still essentially early access bits.
), but you don't see much in historical ranges that have that level of detail and with such delicate sculpting. And, certainly not where you can buy an entire army's worth of plastic for less than £100.
If it's been previously stated that there's nano-stupidity, there wasn't anything in the interview to suggest they changed that.
. Glad fulfillment wasn't going to be an issue.
