Beyond the Gates of Antares: The Ongoing News & Rumors Thread

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**durecellrabbit**

From this thread Warlord say the prices are higher because non-historical have high costs in designing and sculpting the models.

Apologist wrote:
BrookM wrote:
That's what Gates of Ants needs, more alien species that don't look human.

For better or worse, the four factions explored so far are all humans (or post-/meta-/evolved-/sci-fi-catchphrase-of-the-moment-humans); but I agree with your point that some more unusual figures – alien in form, if not in background – might catch more people's interest (mine included).

Of course, that needs to be balanced against the people that like the more hard sci-fi feel of everything being human-descended, in which case keeping everything human-based is a selling point.

A difficult balance!

Personally it's the Alien/Zerg/Tyranid/Bug style races that attracts me to Sci Fi games.

**Pacific**

As Apologist says, one of the central points of the universe was that it's a 'hard' sci-fi, with all of the races having evolved from Homo Sapiens. If they did introduce aliens, it would have to be done conscientiously to keep with that setting (if they did indeed want to stick to that idea)

Regarding size, I believe the Algoryn are taller than the other races - the Boromites are squatter.

**BobtheInquisitor**

judgedoug wrote:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.

Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.

Again, I am pretty sure they're releasing the models because people have asked for them. In the time between the original GoA kickstarter and now, Warlord has heavily invested in a partnership with a plastics manufacturing company and have also partnered with Italeri. The GoA models have also been offered to the Warlord Sarge demo people to receive/paint/playtest in preparation for a launch later this year. It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.

I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
As Apologist says, one of the central points of the universe was that it's a 'hard' sci-fi, with all of the races having evolved from Homo Sapiens. If they did introduce aliens, it would have to be done conscientiously to keep with that setting (if they did indeed want to stick to that idea)

Regarding size, I believe the Algoryn are taller than the other races - the Boromites are squatter.

There's no reason they can't have non-humanoid machines or bio-engineered/uplifted Terran species. There's also no reason all the human descendants have to look human. If people are willing to look like He-Man rock monsters for the sake of a job, there will damn well be people taking future cosplay into the realms of insanity.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrookM wrote:
warboss wrote:
Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.

Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.

**BrookM**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
BrookM wrote:
warboss wrote:
Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.

Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.

Isn't that what one of the factions in Infinity did?

**Alpharius**

Indeed!

The dirty Nomads!

**BobtheInquisitor**

Is there a good place to read up on the Infinity background? Sounds interesting.

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.

I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.

Haha, I totally agree though. It would make sense, based on the models they've shown thus far, to do a Bolt Action style sprue arrangement for them. 5-6 bodies per sprue with different heads and arms/weapons including special weapons plus drones. Support weapons and characters and whatnot in metal as you don't need that many.

**BobtheInquisitor**

judgedoug wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.

I hope so. Their designs are certainly interesting enough to play with in plastic. Generic is not always a bad thing, and I do like some of their humanoid armored aliens. However, if the armadillo rockmen are their first plastic kit, then I'm out. That would just be trolling.

Haha, I totally agree though. It would make sense, based on the models they've shown thus far, to do a Bolt Action style sprue arrangement for them. 5-6 bodies per sprue with different heads and arms/weapons including special weapons plus drones. Support weapons and characters and whatnot in metal as you don't need that many.

See, I would be all over that. Drones on the sprue would also double their perceived value to me. Separate heads, arms and weapons open them up to lots of converting or personalization. I wouldn't buy the metal models, but I would stop making fun of them if they gave us nice plastics.

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
See, I would be all over that. Drones on the sprue would also double their perceived value to me. Separate heads, arms and weapons open them up to lots of converting or personalization. I wouldn't buy the metal models, but I would stop making fun of them if they gave us nice plastics.

Then I guess we'll see for later in the year when it launches!
Warlord loves starter box sets, packed full of two starter armies worth of plastics at huge discounts ala Assault on Normany, D-Day Firefight, Armoured Fury, For King & Country, Conquest of Gaul, etc. If they want Gates of Antares to sell at all, it'll have to be a similar arrangement. I'd bet on at least two plastic infantry sprues for the GoA launch.

**Jehan-reznor**

durecellrabbit wrote:
From this thread Warlord say the prices are higher because non-historical have high costs in designing and sculpting the models.

Personally it's the Alien/Zerg/Tyranid/Bug style races that attracts me to Sci Fi games.

And Historicals take more time because of research, to get it time correct? Strange that Reaper can have cheap sf metals as other companies, just seems like an excuse to price it closer to the Porsche of miniature makers.

**TwilightSparkles**

Have to admit pricing puts me off this, it's higher than discounted 40k with the "benefit" of a near non existent player base......

I first got into non GW stuff because of pricing - fed up of £200-£100 just to field a basic force , yet the £70 starters for this seem to represent an absolute minimum force, an equivalent to at least 500 points in GW, which would buy me 2-3 times more models with a ton of options.

Yeah, it's a new system, but that in itself is not a reason for it to exist or to justify crazy pricing. As a KS I still think it would fail with the current pricing.

**Pacific**

BrookM wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
BrookM wrote:
warboss wrote:
Agreed... and I'm not including the surprising furry interest that it got under that umbrella.
Fastest way to ruin a game IMHO.

Nah. It fits in a universe where people want to look like walking horseapples. I'd love it if they went for a nod to the Culture, where even decadent excess can become old hat.
Isn't that what one of the factions in Infinity did?

Aye, these things, gene-spliced people used in underground fighting tournaments

Spoiler:

**Pete Melvin**

Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.

**Wonderwolf**

Pete Melvin wrote:
Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.

I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).

It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".

**Pete Melvin**

Wonderwolf wrote:
Pete Melvin wrote:
Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.

I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).

It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".

By that logic almost no game is particularly suited to the truely alien since most tend to deal with weapons fire as if it were rifle fire (in the case of ground actions) or like tradition naval actions (in the case of space). In 40k a bolter fires the same way as a Tyranid splinter cannon for example. Firestorm Armada Sorylian ships fire the same way as a Dystopin Wars FSA ship does (more or less).
Im sure you could come up with vastly different firing rules for huge swathes of different weapons, with directed energy weapons firing one way and ballistic weapons firing another but most systems dont deal with that level of granularity.

**frozenwastes**

I've thought a bit more about the prices.

Those bases they are on are 30mm wide. So these miniatures are very, very tall. If these are meant to be human sized then this game is not at all 28mm scale. It looks more like Dystopian Legions:

Not really interested in that level of scale creep. It would make the doors and window height of my sci-fi terrain look all wrong.

I do get the prices though as we're pretty much talking about ogre sized miniatures for everything.

**Pacific**

What we really need is a side-by-side shot of the Algoryns compared to the Boromites and the Concord miniatures (the latter in particular).

I have a strong inkling that the Algoryn are meant to be somewhat larger, and aren't indicative of a larger scale for this game.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Pete Melvin wrote:
Im not sure that there are intended to be ANY aliens in the GoA universe. From what I have read they are all intended to be genetically engineered human sub-species.

Who built the Gates?

**warboss**

Pacific wrote:
What we really need is a side-by-side shot of the Algoryns compared to the Boromites and the Concord miniatures (the latter in particular).

I have a strong inkling that the Algoryn are meant to be somewhat larger, and aren't indicative of a larger scale for this game.

And the different Algoryn side by side. I can see that the infiltrators have lighter armor but I'm not sure if the assault squad as the elite type have the same or heavier armor. They have different weapons and possibly helmets but I'm not sure about the armor. The only side by side pic I found is the following. I also mistakenly referred to the posted concord pics earlier in the thread as algoryn. These guys I actually like the scuplts for and can see why someone would use them for mass effect counts as figs.

**durecellrabbit**

The beta rulebook mentions aliens very briefly. The only one mentioned by named are called Vorl but there is little else on them other than they fight themselves, get hired as mercs and are as advanced as the humans.

**BobtheInquisitor**

So they might as well be humans, then? I'm okay with the background keeping it all in the family, so long as they add some kickass diversity to the family. I don't mean rockmen, either.

Where are the people engineering themselves to look like gods or monsters of legend? The people who aren't attached to the human form and go for something outlandish? Or the people who just want to make a sentient sharktopus because they can?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I mean is, what is the point of having factions if they all look and act alike, excepting some forehead bumps.

**Apologist**

In fairness (and I don't really have a horse in this race), the four factions do have some nice distinctive design traits - at least as much as Infinity (where the only alien factions are mostly humanoid), or Rogue Trader, for example.

In addition, the rulebook (still in beta, remember) and background does leave the door open for weird gribbly aliens in the future.

**judgedoug**

Pacific wrote:
What we really need is a side-by-side shot of the Algoryns compared to the Boromites and the Concord miniatures (the latter in particular).

I have a strong inkling that the Algoryn are meant to be somewhat larger, and aren't indicative of a larger scale for this game.

I bit the bullet and I have some GoA minis coming to me - when they get here I'll do a comparison with LOTR, BA, 40K, WHFB, etc etc

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wonderwolf wrote:
I am not sure an only slightly modified Bolt Action game would be well-suited to truly alien things (or even sci-fi weapons that'd break the norm of "laser-guns-that-still-work-like-good-ol-rifles).

It's a format designed for WW2-skirmish-to-mid-size-games after all, with large parts of the game revolving around suppressing units behind various levels of cover with not-overtly-accurate-but-occasionally-lethal gunfire at "skirmish-range".

I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.

**warboss**

judgedoug wrote:

I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.

While the level of accuracy in that comparison varies depending on edition (less so in 2nd ed 40k, moreso now than in 5th, etc), it is at least at its most basic form correct. I can't speak for BA though but I don't think there is any bad baggage or negativity associated with calling it so in case you're thinking that.

**judgedoug**

warboss wrote:
judgedoug wrote:

I know the "modified Bolt Action" has been bandied about a bit, but after reading the Beta rules, it's quite a bit different. It's like the Warhammer 40k is a modified Warhammer Fantasy analogue.

While the level of accuracy in that comparison varies depending on edition (less so in 2nd ed 40k, moreso now than in 5th, etc), it is at least at its most basic form correct. I can't speak for BA though but I don't think there is any bad baggage or negativity associated with calling it so in case you're thinking that.

Oh, no, I love and play Bolt Action almost weekly, so I'm pretty intimately familiar with the rules. GoA is not just modified, but heavily modified.

**judgedoug**

Hey everybody, got my baby order with a couple boxes in it. Algoryn armored infantry and Boromite miner guys.

Couple things I noticed off the bat:

each unit comes in it's own mini box. Included are the figures, along with an order die, and the new plastic lipped bases.
Casts are universally crisp, with almost no flash.
All heads are separate, and all poses within a unit are unique.
I really like the sculpts.

If I think about it, I'll post some size comparisons this weekend. If I have some free time I may paint a fig or two.

**overtyrant**

judgedoug wrote:

Spoiler:

Hey everybody, got my baby order with a couple boxes in it. Algoryn armored infantry and Boromite miner guys.

Couple things I noticed off the bat:

each unit comes in it's own mini box. Included are the figures, along with an order die, and the new plastic lipped bases.
Casts are universally crisp, with almost no flash.
All heads are separate, and all poses within a unit are unique.
I really like the sculpts.

If I think about it, I'll post some size comparisons this weekend. If I have some free time I may paint a fig or two.

Really looking forward to those pics. I'll be at Salute this year and may pick up a squad or two and hopefully they will be doing demo's of the game.

**Bolognesus**

judgedoug wrote:
Jehan-reznor wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Size comparison with GW LOTR Harad and Bolt Action German crewman

Is the size of the alien bigger than a human or are they all that size? If yes they made the same strange size decision as Dystopian legions, it is like they don't want the extra sales to the converting crowd.

Just killed all my interest in the game.

Dunno, that's the only model I have. It's conceivable they are a "bigger race". I know the Hansa model that was a human was more in line with normal 28mm figures.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

spaceelf wrote:
You must remember that the comparison pics were to LOTR and Bolt Action figures. so unless you want to give Hobbits laser guns, there may still be hope for conversions. It would be useful to see them next to a SM. I suspect that they are not much larger than one. All of this being said, I think that they are a bit big for space elves. Maybe I will pick some up.

Unfortunately I do not have any more Space Marines in my life. Though I do have some Chaos Cultists and some Eldar guardians if that would help?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I know restic is the mother of suffering, but if you need to sell a small, niche range of wacky monopose models, it sure does keep the price down. Boardgame plastic is also acceptable.

Maybe they should have started with the price point that wouldn't scare people out front of the Gates of Antares and worked their way backwards to how big the models should be.

Again, I am pretty sure they're releasing the models because people have asked for them. In the time between the original GoA kickstarter and now, Warlord has heavily invested in a partnership with a plastics manufacturing company and have also partnered with Italeri. The GoA models have also been offered to the Warlord Sarge demo people to receive/paint/playtest in preparation for a launch later this year. It would not surprise me in the least if Warlord had a few plastic kits in the works to actually launch the game with, to replace the short-run metal sculpts.

while he's a bit bulkier, Hansa does not look out of place with my infinity PanO. Regular 28mm scaling there (and not even all that heroic).

**Gallahad**

What is most bizarre to me is that Warlord will pay to make injection plastic kits of pretty obscure vehicles or WWII infantry. The sci-fi market has to be larger than those that want to game WWII with the Japanese right? Even a so so plastic release would have to sell more than even a stellar WWII release. Right? Maybe not, but it would seem worth the gamble.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

The problem SF games have is their vehicles are not generic

a (good) Chi Ha will work for any WWII game at that scale, no arguments, no fuss, no discussion. Even if the companies rules fail it will still sell,

plus there are plenty of collectors/builders of just WWII tank/vehicle kits too

but an SF tank has to look right for the feel of the system (a tank aimed at Infinity will not look right in 40K),

If a player does not feel it suits their vision of the game it will not sell,

if an opponent does not feel it suits their vision of the game they may not choose to play against you (most likely to happen with stranger pick up gaming, but it is an issue)

so there is a lot more risk involved in your SF tank