I for one am happy to see them trying to push out beyond specialized hobby shops and their own store fronts. I feel like that's been GW's biggest challenge, and allowing their products to be sold at more places will ultimately only generate more interest in the hobby we've all come to know and enjoy periodically. Whilst I wont give away too much detail, I understand that a GW outlet recruiter has approached my employer recently regarding the subject of advertising with us (we're a hobbyist magazine publisher).
otahak wrote: ...a GW outlet recruiter has approached my employer recently regarding the subject of advertising with us (we're a hobbyist magazine publisher).
LIES! Games Workshop would never, ever break their cardinal rule of advertising - "We don't advertise."
Wow, things really are different at GW now that Kirby is doing something else with his time.
otahak wrote: ...a GW outlet recruiter has approached my employer recently regarding the subject of advertising with us (we're a hobbyist magazine publisher).
LIES! Games Workshop would never, ever break their cardinal rule of advertising - "We don't advertise."
Wow, things really are different at GW now that Kirby is doing something else with his time.
It isn't something completely new. Rare but not new. Adverts for Age of Sigmar have been a regular occurrence in SFX magazine since the game was released. That said, SFX has had some kind of relationship with GW for some time now. There have been regular Bkacj Library adverts and the latest BL releases are often a prize for that month's star letter.
Kilkrazy wrote: The proposed GW prices don't strike me as particularly excessive compared with similar offerings from Airfix and Revell.
Anyway, GW stuff mostly starts to look really expensive when you start to price up whole armies and necessary rulebooks. A lot of the individual kits are not bad value in themselves
I don't think the target market will care that the figures are fairly old designs.
Heck, I am not the target audience, and I don't much care that they are older kits - I am actually agreeing with a few of GW's more recent decisions. Something I had not expected to say until they had declared bankruptcy.... (Five to Ten years time, or so I would have said last year.)
I said this before. I would love to see GW dictate trade terms to Wal-Mart, oh boy would that be hilarious. They dictate what they want to companies that could sneeze and accidentally make a GW in their pants.
I sense the taint of worshippers of the false CEO!
On topic, I'm looking forward to these. Hoping they'll let us get a better idea of everything they're planning---with hopefully more old timey goodness--- as release dates get closer.
To me this is further proof that Rountree is taking the company in new directions to try and stem or even reverse the tide of falling sales.
I think they need to be more diversified, and I don't think it would do any harm to up the quality of rules, but these are objectives that take longer to implement.
I think the last thing they should do is change the rules at the moment; they're just starting to kindle some actual good feeling amongst the community, if they change the rules again, so soon after 7th edition, they risk losing that.
Whilst I think there are definite improvements that can be made, probably best to stay the course for the time being.
If they keep doing releases like Tau (where you can get new units/rules updates without having to replace your codex), then that will help in the short term.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KK; I don't think you were suggesting that, just building on what you said, but realised it might come across wrong.
Jadenim wrote: I think the last thing they should do is change the rules at the moment; they're just starting to kindle some actual good feeling amongst the community, if they change the rules again, so soon after 7th edition, they risk losing that.
Whilst I think there are definite improvements that can be made, probably best to stay the course for the time being.
If they keep doing releases like Tau (where you can get new units/rules updates without having to replace your codex), then that will help in the short term.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KK; I don't think you were suggesting that, just building on what you said, but realised it might come across wrong.
Well, I can get behind change in the form of more clearly written with less grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. Or, maybe just playtest them a couple of times and ask someone other than their blind Uncle to proofread them before sending them out the door.
Jadenim wrote: I think the last thing they should do is change the rules at the moment; they're just starting to kindle some actual good feeling amongst the community, if they change the rules again, so soon after 7th edition, they risk losing that.
Whilst I think there are definite improvements that can be made, probably best to stay the course for the time being.
If they keep doing releases like Tau (where you can get new units/rules updates without having to replace your codex), then that will help in the short term.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KK; I don't think you were suggesting that, just building on what you said, but realised it might come across wrong.
If they keep up the 2 year cycle for rules and codexes, I’d seriously consider getting off the 40k train. They charge too much for rules with such a low shelf life.
If they went back to the 4 year cycle for rules, they could generate a lot of goodwill by starting that revision now, and getting input, playtesting, etc. Putting variant rules in WD/online, listening to how they work. They did similar things back in 3rd.
agnosto wrote: Well, I can get behind change in the form of more clearly written with less grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. Or, maybe just playtest them a couple of times and ask someone other than their blind Uncle to proofread them before sending them out the door.
I think the current generation of rulebooks (post Necron) have pretty consistent formatting, writing, style and language. They are pretty much free of grammar, spelling, or punctuation errors. I'm a stickler for that sort of thing, and really, nothing's jumped out at me.
On the other hand, there are still a small number issues of ambiguity that haven't been FAQ'd, but some of them are pretty impactful to those involved. To pick an example, whether Iron Hands IWNDCT is conferred upon the Iron Hands detachment's Razorbacks and Land Raiders. A straight reading of the rules would suggest no, as virtually all vehicles (other than Dreadnoughts) don't have the Chapter Tactics SR. There are a few of this type of rules-writing where the reader things, "surely, they meant this instead".
Plus, I think most players would acknowledge that significant balance issues exist within the context of the factions as a whole, and the game lends itself to the possibility of armies that specialize in rules abuse (no different than a lot of other games, but to a greater extent than some).
agnosto wrote: Well, I can get behind change in the form of more clearly written with less grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. Or, maybe just playtest them a couple of times and ask someone other than their blind Uncle to proofread them before sending them out the door.
I think the current generation of rulebooks (post Necron) have pretty consistent formatting, writing, and language. They are pretty much free of grammar, spelling, or punctuation errors. I'm a stickler for that sort of thing, and really, nothing's jumped out at me.
On the other hand, there are still a small number issues of ambiguity that haven't been FAQ'd, but some of them are pretty impactful to those involved. Plus, I think most players would acknowledge that significant balance issues exist within the context of the factions as a whole, and the game lends itself to the possibility of armies that specialize in rules abuse (no different than a lot of other games, but perhaps to a greater extent).
I've given up on external balance with the advent of formations and add-on supplements; I'm more concerned with internal balance. It's always been a sticking point with me that some units in a given army book would get a great deal of love and others you're left thinking, "why would anyone run these?"
I haven't bought an army book in a while, I just couldn't be bothered to pay $50 for a book filled with grammar and spelling errors (I'm a sticker in that regard as well). I just figured that if they couldn't be bothered to properly edit their work, I couldn't be bothered to give them money for it. I'm glad to hear that they've improved in that regard.
agnosto wrote: I've given up on external balance with the advent of formations and add-on supplements; I'm more concerned with internal balance. It's always been a sticking point with me that some units in a given army book would get a great deal of love and others you're left thinking, "why would anyone run these?"
In this regard, Games Workshop is woefully deficient.
To 80% of some factions' units, the answer to your question is, "Because I like the models" or, worse, "Because I own the models", and nothing else. For all the Eldar bashing that you see, they have probably the best rulebook in this respect -- almost everything is actually playable
There are actually ways of encouraging players to play one type of unit rather than another without horribly unbalancing them (as 40k does), because the meta changes holistically, and certain units are just a lot better in one meta or another. To take a CCG example, just because a card is a great card, doesn't mean it's going to be a great card against a particular deck that's really popular -- which may encourage you not to play the great card. This happens in 40k a lot, but I don't think any of it is by GW's design, when it could/should be
I don't think they need to totally change the current rules.
What I would like to see is a return to having simpler rulesets to introduce new comers, outsiders, younger customers or the like and gradually ease them into things.
Like those old boxed games they used to make with recycled figures. Tyranid Attack, Might Warriors, Space Fleet... stuff like that.
What I would like to see is a return to having simpler rulesets to introduce new comers, outsiders, younger customers or the like and gradually ease them into things.
Like those old boxed games they used to make with recycled figures. Tyranid Attack, Might Warriors, Space Fleet... stuff like that.
With all the issues that 40k has, I simply attribute that to it being a decades-old, massive game and ecosystem, and I'm content with the rules as a ruleset for the kind of game that 40k is designed for.
I think it would be to GW's advantage, however, to write a different, but related ruleset that was designed for people who don't want the monetary or physical outlays, not to mention time investment, required to play 40k in the way the designers envisioned. It would use a subset of the models and essentially be a gateway drug to the bigger game and the hobby of collecting and modelling GW collections, for those who enjoyed those sorts of activities.
I don't think the rules need to be free (though that wouldn't hurt), but it would be nice if it were designed such that one did not have to buy a zillion rulebooks to have all of the rules to play the game, as I believe this is something that discourages completionists who have space and budgetary constraints.
Talys wrote: I think it would be to GW's advantage, however, to write a different, but related ruleset that was designed for people who don't want the monetary or physical outlays, not to mention time investment, required to play 40k in the way the designers envisioned. It would use a subset of the models and essentially be a gateway drug to the bigger game and the hobby of collecting and modelling GW collections, for those who enjoyed those sorts of activities.
Battlefront did just that with their 'Open Fire!' starter for Flames of War. You should have heard all of the outrage against Battlefront on their forums for doing such a thing...
I don't think the rules need to be free (though that wouldn't hurt), but it would be nice if it were designed such that one did not have to buy a zillion rulebooks to have all of the rules to play the game, as I believe this is something that discourages completionists who have space and budgetary constraints.
Talys wrote: I think it would be to GW's advantage, however, to write a different, but related ruleset that was designed for people who don't want the monetary or physical outlays, not to mention time investment, required to play 40k in the way the designers envisioned. It would use a subset of the models and essentially be a gateway drug to the bigger game and the hobby of collecting and modelling GW collections, for those who enjoyed those sorts of activities.
Battlefront did just that with their 'Open Fire!' starter for Flames of War. You should have heard all of the outrage against Battlefront on their forums for doing such a thing...
Because people felt that they would be forced at gun point to use the stripped-down version of the rules rather than the full version? People will complain about anything.
Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
Look for the fussing over AD&D first and second editions, though... and those two games were pretty danged compatible.
Though the Warhammer/Age of Sigmar split is more akin to the 3.X/4e D&D split - incompatible games that take the system in very different directions.
Which really didn't work out that well for WotC in either the short or the long term.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
However people usually are not looking for a pickup game of Dungeons & Dragons with some new folks down at the FLGS.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
Pffft... the box sets were Basic... then Expert And of course, Advanced, which was the good ol' hardcover rulebooks. Remember when there were only 3 of them, PHB, DMG, and MM? Wow, ancient times.
And eventually they made them a red box, and blue box, and then came the gold box... where everyone was an Immortal (and I think character levels started at 100 or some such) ahhh happy days
With respect to 40k:
I truly don't think there would be the outcry. The game I'm talking about would be a different game based on the a much smaller number of allowed models (nothing ginormous, no superhero unkillable ten thousand year old quasi-deities). It's not like there won't be new players who want big games with big models on big tables, where epic heroes are suitable.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
Pffft... the box sets were Basic... then Expert And of course, Advanced, which was the good ol' hardcover rulebooks. Remember when there were only 3 of them, PHB, DMG, and MM? Wow, ancient times.
And eventually they made them a red box, and blue box, and then came the gold box... where everyone was an Immortal (and I think character levels started at 100 or some such) ahhh happy days
With respect to 40k:
I truly don't think there would be the outcry. The game I'm talking about would be a different game based on the a much smaller number of allowed models (nothing ginormous, no superhero unkillable ten thousand year old quasi-deities). It's not like there won't be new players who want big games with big models on big tables, where epic heroes are suitable.
Basic.
Expert
Companion
Masters
Immortal
BECMI for the the whole thing.
When I got started, there was D&D - then Greyhawk, then Blackmoor, then Eldritch Wizardy....
I had been playing D&D for a year before Basic Dungeons & Dragons came out, as well as the Monster Manual for AD&D.... It took three years for them to get around to the DMG for AD&D.
There is a reason that I call myself auld.
The Auld Grump - anyone remember System 7 Napoleonics?
@AuldGrump - OMG I totally forgot about Masters (was that the black box?). I don't recall Companion. Hangs head in shame. Mind you, I never played the Basic line, though I owned it -- it was all AD&D for me. 10,000 arcane tables to roll dice on, which is probably why I like 40k
My thought process for a GW game to be highly accessible would support many of the models out of the full 40k line (though not all), but also feature boxes like build+paint or dark vengeance snapfits (split up) on the modelling side; and rules that are "like" the old Basic D&D, in sense that Basic was much less arcane and easier for new people to get into than AD&D was. Just like Basic D&D (originally) wasn't designed to scale as high in terms of levels, had simpler tables, and had a much, much smaller number of magical items and spells, where the focus was more on the roleplaying and less on supernerd mechanics and knowing what strange words like dweomer meant.
Likewise, a smaller scale 40k in my mind would start with kits that are both pocketbook and assembly-friendly, play on a much smaller table, have fewer special rules, fewer rolls to start the game, and a flatter, more predictable (and potentially less powerful) magic system.
I think that ultimately most people who really enjoy 40k like the models, so anyone who has a good time with the little game will ultimately go on to the big game, since the little game won't support the full line of models. Much like, some people eventually moved to AD&D because of supplement compatibility -- bigger treasure tables, more monsters, more game worlds, etc.
Hey, I managed to keep it on topic while discussing something totally off-topic.
As for dictating terms. I'd love to see them try with Wal-Mart considering they dictate terms to manufacturers who could sneeze and accidentally create a GW in their pants.
From what I understand, that very thing happened quite a few years ago. WM turned GW out on their ear.
I find it really strange that companies that product models and/or paints for gaming have made pretty much *NO* effort to help new painters interested in the hobby (specifically an "all in one" paint kit with instructions to specifically paint figures included, and at a decent price). Reaper's "Learn to Paint Kit" is about the only such product I know of, and they're taking *forever* to come out with the second kit. I know Vallejo had two such products, but they're OOP (at the low, low cost of $77). Back in 2003, GW released a "Space Marine Assault" kit for $25. Instructions were pretty sad, but you got 13 models and 7 paints.
Not Fantasy/Sci-Fi, but Warlord/Italieri have several sets of this nature.
Toronto Maple Leafs have not won The Lord Stanley's Cup yet.
They've won it more times than any team other than the Canadiens I think like 13 times, eh?
Corrected that for you - you put the 'eh' in the wrong place, eh?
'Eh' roughly translates to 'Make a noise, so I know you're listening. The traditional response is 'Eh'.
'The Maple leafs are gonna play a game in Hell when it freezes over, eh?'
'Eh. Gretsky's still gonna beat 'em, eh?'
'Eh!'
In my area of the world we have 'ayuh', which is an inhaled 'yup'. (I have no idea why or how Maine evolved an inhaled affirmative response. But then I'm a Boston boy.)
Drifting back to topic - the response to this locally has been largely positive. Several have expressed hop that it leads to a simplified beginner or children's game for the setting.
I am interested to hear that Canadians do this 'eh' thing as a oart of conversation.
The Japanese also have a social protocol of making little noises and tiny comments to indicate to someone who is speaking to them than they are listening.
This often annoys me with my wife, as I have become socialised into doing this in Japanese or English when she is "rabbit, rabbit, rabbiting" on to me and all I actually want to do is close my ears.
That was actually more of an "uh" than the typicaly "ey!" you think of a Canadian finishing a sentence with an "Eh"
Amazingly, we actually do use "Eh's". Coming from Florida originally, I was amazed when I started saying it.
@Auld - in our playgroup, the idea seems pretty positive, in the sense of, "Sure, sounds neat?". The local hobby store seems to think it might be a good idea, which I'm a tiny bit surprised at, seeing as the product will probably pop up at big box stores, and that's the last thing they want to compete with.
Talys wrote: The local hobby store seems to think it might be a good idea, which I'm a tiny bit surprised at, seeing as the product will probably pop up at big box stores, and that's the last thing they want to compete with.
I can see the FLGS liking it. It’s a gateway. While there might be some lost sales as vets go pick up these on the cheep, they are probably going to be outweighed by new players looking for new units to add to their lonely starter models. It’s not like the big box is going to have the full line.
I think the worst case for the FLGS is new players getting hooked, and then heading to GW’s webstore for their next fix. If the FLGS doesn’t see any of the new blood, it doesn’t do them any direct good. Although with more people in the hobby, the odds of some of them hitting the local shop does go up.
That was actually more of an "uh" than the typicaly "ey!" you think of a Canadian finishing a sentence with an "Eh"
Amazingly, we actually do use "Eh's". Coming from Florida originally, I was amazed when I started saying it.
@Auld - in our playgroup, the idea seems pretty positive, in the sense of, "Sure, sounds neat?". The local hobby store seems to think it might be a good idea, which I'm a tiny bit surprised at, seeing as the product will probably pop up at big box stores, and that's the last thing they want to compete with.
Eh, is actually very useful, eh?
And it really is - I use it, and I only visited Canada for about two months, back in the eighties.
It is also rather a polite noise, giving a point for the listener to interject.
***
The other part of the reaction that I am seeing seems to be a variant of 'It's about time!' or even surprise that GW is doing this - folks have gotten unused to GW doing anything outside of their little echo chamber.
Rountree is surprising me - and may yet get me to revise my projected chances for GW's survival.
Had they continued on their course, I would have been surprised to see them last another decade, and would have expected them to sink under the waves in less than half that.
They still have problems, but advertising is a very good step, the little kits is a good step.
Age of Sigmar was anything but a good step. (If it had been an adjunct to Warhammer, then maybe... as s replacement... even the All GW All The Time store is dropping the game from inventory, and is not bothering with the figures for the game. The fact that GW is opening their own store in the area also has them rethinking the All GW strategy....)
And I still don't grok why they replaced White Dwarf with WHV for general circulation - the places that used to carry White Dwarf have dropped Warhammer Visions from the shelves completely. (Except for the above mentioned All GW store, which still carries it each month, then returns it unsold at the end of each month.... I think that they have sold around six copies, and most of those when the magazine was new.)
At this point, I am not sure that they could get White Dwarf back into book and magazine stores, even if they returned to a monthly release schedule.
Speaking of bookstores - the local Books-a-Million! has expressed interest in these little Build & Paint kits - they see them as something that the people that buy the 40KRPGs might be very interested in.
Which seems like a reasonable expectation, to me. (And folks that play Pathfinder or D&D might be interested in any fantasy kits that GW comes out with.)
The Auld Grump - hey, look! A compliment sandwich....
To me, GW seem to have a schizophrenic view of their licensing partners. They eagerly take the fees paid for the RPGs and video games, but they don't seem to want to acknowledge officially that these non-GW published titles exist.
It's like GW have almost non-existent modern marketing skills. Perhaps their marketing people were all hired for attitude.
There's no cross-promotion, no merchandise, no tie-in figures or stuff.
GW use to advertise that stuff in the past, but just had a tight grip on their license. I remember store owners peddling DoW1 and having Blood Raven merch, to the point that I thought the Blood ANGELS codex was a Blood Ravens codex at one point (I was fairly new to the game at that point).
Kilkrazy wrote: To me, GW seem to have a schizophrenic view of their licensing partners. They eagerly take the fees paid for the RPGs and video games, but they don't seem to want to acknowledge officially that these non-GW published titles exist.
It's like GW have almost non-existent modern marketing skills. Perhaps their marketing people were all hired for attitude.
There's no cross-promotion, no merchandise, no tie-in figures or stuff.
In this Age of Rountree, there may well be some! (He seems to be doing a good job of running things at the moment, so who knows, right?)
Kilkrazy wrote: To me, GW seem to have a schizophrenic view of their licensing partners. They eagerly take the fees paid for the RPGs and video games, but they don't seem to want to acknowledge officially that these non-GW published titles exist.
It's like GW have almost non-existent modern marketing skills. Perhaps their marketing people were all hired for attitude.
There's no cross-promotion, no merchandise, no tie-in figures or stuff.
In this Age of Rountree, there may well be some! (He seems to be doing a good job of running things at the moment, so who knows, right?)
Which is why I expect Kirby to fire him at any moment....
Kilkrazy wrote: To me, GW seem to have a schizophrenic view of their licensing partners. They eagerly take the fees paid for the RPGs and video games, but they don't seem to want to acknowledge officially that these non-GW published titles exist.
It's like GW have almost non-existent modern marketing skills. Perhaps their marketing people were all hired for attitude.
There's no cross-promotion, no merchandise, no tie-in figures or stuff.
In this Age of Rountree, there may well be some! (He seems to be doing a good job of running things at the moment, so who knows, right?)
Which is why I expect Kirby to fire him at any moment....
The Auld Grump
I thought Kirby took his golden parachute and went home, that's why Roundtree is in charge now.
Ghaz wrote: Nope. The forums knew full well it was a starter set. The complaint was that a new player would want to join an existing group and play a game of 'Flames of War' when what they had been playing was 'Open Fire!'.
People didn't have such issues back when there were different versions of D&D. I remember going from Basic to Intermediate dungeons.....ahh.....gosh, I'm old.
Pffft... the box sets were Basic... then Expert And of course, Advanced, which was the good ol' hardcover rulebooks. Remember when there were only 3 of them, PHB, DMG, and MM? Wow, ancient times.
And eventually they made them a red box, and blue box, and then came the gold box... where everyone was an Immortal (and I think character levels started at 100 or some such) ahhh happy days
With respect to 40k:
I truly don't think there would be the outcry. The game I'm talking about would be a different game based on the a much smaller number of allowed models (nothing ginormous, no superhero unkillable ten thousand year old quasi-deities). It's not like there won't be new players who want big games with big models on big tables, where epic heroes are suitable.
Basic.
Expert
Companion
Masters
Immortal
BECMI for the the whole thing.
When I got started, there was D&D - then Greyhawk, then Blackmoor, then Eldritch Wizardy....
I had been playing D&D for a year before Basic Dungeons & Dragons came out, as well as the Monster Manual for AD&D.... It took three years for them to get around to the DMG for AD&D.
I still have all of those old 'Basc D&D' books. Ahh, those were the days.
Rountree was appointed Chief Executive Officer, so he's in charge of the company day to day.
Kirby is still Chairman of the Board, I believe. That won't be a full time position, and it's about advising rather than controlling, but he must still have a lot of influence and power especially as an important shareholder.
Kilkrazy wrote: To me, GW seem to have a schizophrenic view of their licensing partners. They eagerly take the fees paid for the RPGs and video games, but they don't seem to want to acknowledge officially that these non-GW published titles exist.
It's like GW have almost non-existent modern marketing skills. Perhaps their marketing people were all hired for attitude.
There's no cross-promotion, no merchandise, no tie-in figures or stuff.
In this Age of Rountree, there may well be some! (He seems to be doing a good job of running things at the moment, so who knows, right?)
Which is why I expect Kirby to fire him at any moment....
The Auld Grump
I thought Kirby took his golden parachute and went home, that's why Roundtree is in charge now.
Kirby is still Chairman, but no is no longer serving as CEO as well.
Expectation was high that Rountree would prove to be a sock puppet for Kirby - but so far, he is showing a lot more independence.
So far....
The Auld Grump - No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
copy/pasted the text off the page in case they take it down:
Spoiler:
Battle for Vedros
Warhammer 40,000
Battle for Vedros
Collect
Build
Paint
Play
Collect
Build
Paint
Play
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war! In the dying years of the 41st Millennium there is no peace amongst the stars, only brutal warfare and planetary conquest. The Battle for Vedros brings all the action onto your tabletop. You command armies of models in a game of daring, cunning and untold slaughter.
The Battle for Vedros Starter Set allows you to fight out battles between the mighty Space Marines and feral Orks. As well as great models for you to build and play with, it includes the tale of the invasion of Vedros and all the rules you need to play.
Once you have the Starter Set, you can also expand your collection with the other models and vehicles available (all their rules are in the Starter Set), whilst the Paint Set allows you to individualize your favourite models.
You will find all these reinforcements at your local store.
Building and modelling your own forces is part of the fun. The Starter Set models are easy to put together and means your forces can get into battle straight away! The models available in the other expansions present new and greater challenges, more models, more variety, more firepower!
Painting models is an exciting and fun hobby in and of itself. Whether you choose to replicate existing color schemes, or create fantastic new ones of your own, is completely up to you.
The Battle for Vedros Paint Set includes thirteen pots of paint, a paint brush (the paints are water-based acrylics, so you will only require water to wash the brush), and a step-by-step painting guide: everything you will need to paint your collection of Space Marines and Orks.
By following the easy steps listed within the painting guide, you’ll quickly achieve excellent results with your own models.
The Space Marines have arrived to crush an Ork invasion at the Battle for Vedros.
Outnumbered, they must fight for their lives if they are to stop the alien hordes. The Space Marines and the Orks are old enemies, and on Vedros a brutal battle to the death is about to erupt in which only one side will emerge alive and victorious.
This is a gaming experience unlike any other: a social event, part game, part storytelling as you become immersed in the world, shaping its destiny by your choices, risking the fate of entire worlds on the roll of the dice!
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war!
The Imperium of Man is a vast, sprawling empire that spans a million worlds. The Battle for Vedros is just part of the huge universe of Warhammer 40,000. There are thousands more models – more Space Marine Chapters and Ork clans, more armies of humans and aliens – hundreds of different paint colors, and more ways to model, paint and play games.
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Building: Follow assembly instructions carefully. Children should seek adult assistance when removing components from the frame, using appropriate tools. Many Battle for Vedros models require glue to assemble, and plastic cement glue appropriate for use by children aged 8 years and upwards should be used (again children should do so under the supervision of an adult).
Painting: Paints are water based acrylics meaning there’s no need for thinners or specialist brush washers. You should use water to wash the colors from the brush, both between changing colors and at the end of any painting session.
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In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war! In the dying years of the 41st Millennium there is no peace amongst the stars, only brutal warfare and planetary conquest. The Battle for Vedros brings all the action onto your tabletop. You command armies of models in a game of daring, cunning and untold slaughter.
The Battle for Vedros Starter Set allows you to fight out battles between the mighty Space Marines and feral Orks. As well as great models for you to build and play with, it includes the tale of the invasion of Vedros and all the rules you need to play.
Monopose models, Rulebook, simplified rules (at least in the tutorial), no Mini-Rulebook like Dark Vengeance has. GW tape measure included? 8 D6 in the box
Looks like a great, entry-level product; it must be fake. The proof is really in the price. If they price this in true GW fashion and they sit next to comparable kits from other manufacturers, I think this venture will fail. If they price these competitively, they may have a winner. It all depends if they have realized that they have competition in model, toy, and hobby shops.
Monopose models, Rulebook, simplified rules (at least in the tutorial), no Mini-Rulebook like Dark Vengeance has. GW tape measure included? 8 D6 in the box
agnosto wrote: Looks like a great, entry-level product; it must be fake. The proof is really in the price. If they price this in true GW fashion and they sit next to comparable kits from other manufacturers, I think this venture will fail. If they price these competitively, they may have a winner. It all depends if they have realized that they have competition in model, toy, and hobby shops.
As they're battle proven, simpler models you'd like to think GW would put them in the same price bracket as the Start Collecting boxes. After all, the initial outlay on the molds must have been recovered some time ago.
Monopose models, Rulebook, simplified rules (at least in the tutorial), no Mini-Rulebook like Dark Vengeance has. GW tape measure included? 8 D6 in the box
Monopose models, Rulebook, simplified rules (at least in the tutorial), no Mini-Rulebook like Dark Vengeance has. GW tape measure included? 8 D6 in the box
Looks like the starter uses custom rules (running is 4", may charge after rapid fire, Orks have their 6+ save despite being shot at by bolters and so on), or modified in such a way to teach new players what to look out for:
In the US GW is looking for "Toy Specialist Recruiter" and "Crafts Specialist Recruiter", I'm guessing they would be responsible for trying to get Toy and Craftstores to open accounts with GW with this new range opening up that seems to be marketed towards them.
That's actually not as surprising as you might think since they're trying to change the names of their stores to "Warhammer" instead of "Games Workshop".
I went to the Battle for Vedros webpage and watched the painting tutorials. They're using my color scheme for Ork skin and I am simply just flattered. I would really like to try getting this as a way of introducing friends/sibling to the hobby, and super simplified rules don't hurt, though I have no idea how balanced they are. I'll probably let them take marines so their chances are better
Bull0 wrote: It's definitely not a new sprue, those are the Assault on Black Reach push-fit models.
It seems like an eon ago, but I don't recall Black Reach having Mk4 legs.
Edit: Damn, you're right! I went and pulled my box out of the closet, and lo and behold, there's (one) torso with Mk4 legs :X
I stand corrected! At the time, I think I was in my Eldar or Tyranid phase, and didn't pay much attention to space marine models My black reach box isn't even 10% painted.
I'd think snap-fit with no glue and one paint more might've been better for the bike kits. That way you could have some awesome painting competitions, because white, black and colour X can make some great monochrome models and this would have TWO colours
I like the idea very much in general. My GW/minis addiction started when my mom brought home a small GW mag from a comic store (actually I have no idea what she was doing there). It had GorkaMorka/speedfreak Orks on the cover. This is in part why -if they're really cheap- I'd buy several of those trukks and finally build some Gorkamorka gangs. Bikes are actually okay-ish price wise already, especially if you're a SM player and get 3 bikes from DV for ten euros or so.
Just give it time, the adverts on the toy fair had US$, EUR and GBP prices (see the linked imgur gallery under spoiler, hopefully all pics are still there). And this is meant to get released in different places than GW and Hobby stores. Maybe even excluding them? We dont know yet.
Ah,I get it now (and thanks for correcting my poor memory) You're saying that the compared to numbers is what they left out. Cool.
Yes, sorry it was late and I was half-asleep , failed at finding better words. Some of us were wondering how they would re-release the AOBR content a few pages earlier. The missing models could give a hint which sprues they included. It could be one each of these
But this sprue must have been recut - only one Deffkopta and no Terminators, according to the content shown in the video and the starter set photo (29 miniatures)
They did not work on the quality I guess but the sprue layout does not look to be the same.
Gorkamorka..... there's a name I've not heard for a long time.
Are the rules available online somewhere (only if it's legal to say, as it's long been OOP and potentially not an issue to share?) - genuine question that isn't supporting illegal activity, so please don't jump on me (unless you're attractive, then go for it)
Gorkamorka is such a cool old game, made even more playable with the modern Ork range than it was originally. Yoofs are about the hardest part to get models for, though you could use 2nd edition orks off ebay, maybe.
Warhams-77 wrote: Just give it time, the adverts on the toy fair had US$, EUR and GBP prices (see the linked imgur gallery under spoiler, hopefully all pics are still there). And this is meant to get released in different places than GW and Hobby stores. Maybe even excluding them? We dont know yet.
Ah,I get it now (and thanks for correcting my poor memory) You're saying that the compared to numbers is what they left out. Cool.
Yes, sorry it was late and I was half-asleep , failed at finding better words. Some of us were wondering how they would re-release the AOBR content a few pages earlier. The missing models could give a hint which sprues they included. It could be one each of these
Spoiler:
But this sprue must have been recut - only one Deffkopta and no Terminators, according to the content shown in the video and the starter set photo (29 miniatures)
Spoiler:
They did not work on the quality I guess but the sprue layout does not look to be the same.
I bet the remainder of Ork Boyz are from the box of pushfit boyz they had.
From that line that also had a box of 3 Space Marines and another with 5 Cadians.
so, could this be what the GW100 thing was about then...? somehow?
I think that was only shared by US stores, right?
countdown to when this is released, maybe? big promotional event to tie in with it maybe?
I dont think so. These boxes are as far as we know not for GW stores. Also GW does not show products so early. Imo the 100-thingy is something different.
The offical website's URL www.battleforvedros.com was registered in Septemer 2015 and was probably set up for GW sales agents to now inform shops like toy stores about the product before taking orders in.
Very interesting stuff. Might order a box of thouse. Noticed one realy interesting thing - on the sheet with the models characteristics the Warboss has 4 wounds, while in the Codex he's got 3. Realy, realy interesting...
I doubt they'll try to deal with AV and hull points on the dreadnought, maybe they'll call it a day at 5 wounds like what they did with the war boss? I would seriously buy this kit for the paints and to complete my 2/3 of the AoBR Orks, particularly the warboss.
Edit: I may be wrong, I just can't read the stats at the top of the picture at all. But it might make sense.
If nothing else, this means that a viable model is available again for us Ork players wanting more Deffkoptas. I mean, I already have ten I picked up back when AoBR was out, but you know, for other people. Or for me for more buggy conversions.
Yay, AOBR is back! Which reminds me that I need to paint my old set. Orks and all.
It's good to see GW taking some right steps into attracting their target audience. And is it wrong that I actually sat through the painting/assembling videos even though I have three years of painting experience? I swear I can listen to Duncan talk about hobby stuff all day.
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Remember it's simplified - the extra wound is probably to represent his higher toughness baked in.
You might be right, but a simple ork like me can still dream . Besides, the kopta gets 2 rokkit shots. Too many indications if you ask me.
KommissarKiln wrote:I doubt they'll try to deal with AV and hull points on the dreadnought, maybe they'll call it a day at 5 wounds like what they did with the war boss? I would seriously buy this kit for the paints and to complete my 2/3 of the AoBR Orks, particularly the warboss.
Edit: I may be wrong, I just can't read the stats at the top of the picture at all. But it might make sense.
I think it has only 4 wounds, but I could be wrong. It also looks like having some kind of armour save.
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Glad I'm not the only one to think of Oni's statements as being a bit of an over reaction.
I first bought 2nd Ed 40K from the Toy section of an Argos catalogue.
Plus, in my experience, there are plenty of people out there who view all wargaming, whether the various flavours of sci-fi/fantasy or the most serious of historicals, as toys anyway.
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Glad I'm not the only one to think of Oni's statements as being a bit of an over reaction.
I first bought 2nd Ed 40K from the Toy section of an Argos catalogue.
Plus, in my experience, there are plenty of people out there who view all wargaming, whether the various flavours of sci-fi/fantasy or the most serious of historicals, as toys anyway.
Yes, perhaps a bit extreme, but only because I'm passionate about this hobby. I view these build+paint kits as a blow to the credibility of the hobby and it frustrates me greatly.
Additionally, I'm not wrong about this sales campaign being short sighted and ill conceived - it will not yield new, repeat / long term customers. Let me Chicken-Little for a moment here... [Chicken-Little] What's even more unfortunate is that because these kits will be cheaper than the norm, veteran hobbyist's will purchase these kits looking for a deal; falsely causing GW to think that the build+paint sales campaign is a success. They will look at the sales data and form their false notions that kids are begging their parents to buy this gak and it'll just snowball from there. [/Chicken-Little]
@Hulksmash - Starting this "hobby" in your teenage years is pretty normal, not when you're 8 years old, which is the age stated on the boxes of these new kits.
I was building kits when I was 8, all sorts of different kits, boats, planes, tanks, cars
and if there had been sf stuff i'd have built that too
and that would mean i'd have a vague brand/world/look awareness when I got round to gaming a few years later
I think you're right there won't be many 'gamers' brought in by the kits, but they are basically advertising paid for by the customer, and not only for the kid, but for the parent too. If I buy something my kid likes I'm going to remember it and buy it again
when I was young it was airfix my family knew I liked so I tended to get an airfix kit when I didn't ask for something specific for birthdays/Christmas/treats etc. With these it could be Warhammer
(I also think enough of the kits are sufficiently old that there won't be huge sales to existing gamers (deffkopters aside), and the really price conscious who will buy would have bought second hand previously anyway
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Glad I'm not the only one to think of Oni's statements as being a bit of an over reaction.
I first bought 2nd Ed 40K from the Toy section of an Argos catalogue.
Plus, in my experience, there are plenty of people out there who view all wargaming, whether the various flavours of sci-fi/fantasy or the most serious of historicals, as toys anyway.
2nd edition was, in my opinion, mostly aimed at younger gamers - with very, very simple plastics, for the most part.
2nd was also when most of the people that I have known that play 40K started playing.
And some still play 2nd edition - so I have no complaints about bringing in fresh meat....
***
My good lady saw the War Truks, and demanded to know why I hadn't told her about them - she has no urge to play Orks, but she has a Mad Max style Post-Apocalyptic game that she is working on....
I had looked at the model and thought 'Orks'. She looked at the model and thought 'Witness me!'
The Auld Grump - we have GorkaMorka, but she is looking more at an RPG game.
Basically, I started at around 7-8*. With Heroquest, Blood Bowl, 40k, eta. These kits would have been fantastic as a birthday present.
yup, I started in the hobby at about the same age, with Space Crusade, which was sold in regular stores/toy shops, and was recommended for 10+ ages:
(spoilered massive image)
Spoiler:
most of my friends were the same, so personally I think these kits are a brilliant move
Shame the minitrukk isn't part of the collection (at the moment).
I think the two trukk models are the products of extreme design philosophy; raise it up and make it big (American monster modding) or lower it to the ground, cram in all your mates and hurtle around snake pass (uk chav style).
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Glad I'm not the only one to think of Oni's statements as being a bit of an over reaction.
I first bought 2nd Ed 40K from the Toy section of an Argos catalogue.
Plus, in my experience, there are plenty of people out there who view all wargaming, whether the various flavours of sci-fi/fantasy or the most serious of historicals, as toys anyway.
Yes, perhaps a bit extreme, but only because I'm passionate about this hobby. I view these build+paint kits as a blow to the credibility of the hobby and it frustrates me greatly.
Additionally, I'm not wrong about this sales campaign being short sighted and ill conceived - it will not yield new, repeat / long term customers. Let me Chicken-Little for a moment here... [Chicken-Little] What's even more unfortunate is that because these kits will be cheaper than the norm, veteran hobbyist's will purchase these kits looking for a deal; falsely causing GW to think that the build+paint sales campaign is a success. They will look at the sales data and form their false notions that kids are begging their parents to buy this gak and it'll just snowball from there. [/Chicken-Little]
@Hulksmash - Starting this "hobby" in your teenage years is pretty normal, not when you're 8 years old, which is the age stated on the boxes of these new kits.
Hmmm, how to break this to you. Okay straight out then.......you already play with toys, children's or otherwise.
Wh40k has had a bit on the back since the day dot suggesting 11 years and over and still does. We were all children once sneering at children joining the hobby and at products aimed at facilitating that seems childish in itself. This is all about fresh blood and expandongbthe hobbies grass roots and is more than welcome in my book.
Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
I fail to see how it can be anything but good for the hobby, new blood and all that, quite a lot of GW customers started out on stuff bought in toy shops in the past.
The kits seem to be the easy to assemble ones too and some snap fit.
Bodes well for the future as far as I am concerned, I am having a hard time trying to find fault.
I dont think GW was ever one hundred percent aimed at more mature audiences, no matter what they claim, at a push you could say it was aimed at the more mature teenagers initially, but it was never aimed soley at adults.
Wulfmar wrote: Gorkamorka..... there's a name I've not heard for a long time.
Are the rules available online somewhere (only if it's legal to say, as it's long been OOP and potentially not an issue to share?) - genuine question that isn't supporting illegal activity, so please don't jump on me (unless you're attractive, then go for it)
I think that Yak Tribe has the main rules, and maybe more.
The Auld Grump - one of the players in the old group had a vehicle painted up as The General Lee.... his tribe was called The Orks of Hazzard....
oni wrote: @Hulksmash - Starting this "hobby" in your teenage years is pretty normal, not when you're 8 years old, which is the age stated on the boxes of these new kits.
Me and my little buddies were hugely into warhammer when we were in primary school, around age 7-10 - sharing our limited knowledge of the setting in the playground, drawing pictures of space marines and boltguns, poring over copies of white dwarf at sleepovers. Obviously we couldn't afford to build armies at that stage but we all prized the odd kits or blisters we were able to coerce out of our parents, read white dwarf and all the weird publications like Inferno, etc. You're just dead wrong with this idea that it's purely a teenage and up thing. All you're really doing is parading your own hang-ups.
I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
I suppose I haven't browsed their webpage for these kits thoroughly enough, but when exactly are these supposed to be released? And has there been any specific mention as to which retailers will carry these sets/those retailers they plan to get involved with?
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
I suppose I haven't browsed their webpage for these kits thoroughly enough, but when exactly are these supposed to be released? And has there been any specific mention as to which retailers will carry these sets/those retailers they plan to get involved with?
I'm a bit confused by this as well - the site is live and public facing. I can't believe they'd put it out in front of the public and news/rumor sites *8* months before product hits shelves.
And the end of the "Battle for Vedros: how to play" youtube vid has a graphic with big white letters proclaiming "AVAILABLE NOW IN ALL GOOD TOY STORES".
However no internet search has turned up the product in any stores.
So I really don't know.
I may contact GW customer support and ask.
Is that website actually publicized yet? It seems to me that it's a website that's ready to go (and live), but isn't intended to have traffic yet. Among other things, when you click to buy it from GW, it's not available there
There's no way to get to the Vedros website without actually searching "Battle for Vedros", at least for the canadian website, so I guess it's not suppose to be live yet.
However GW never does something like this months early; website crap usually go up within a week or two of release.
Remember a lot of the toy store chains are buying their Christmas 2016 stock right now and are going to basically be done by the end of march at the latest
If GW intends to sell into that market they'll have to have stuff to show well in advance and that could well include a working website to demonstrate the 'support' they're going to provide
it's not like their existing game store accounts where they can just ring up and say 'next week we have X, how many units do you want'
I'm curious as to what exact stores they intend to sell these at. Toy and hobby stores don't really exist around here anymore. Would be amazing to find these sets at retailers like Target or Michaels, but I dunno if they're too general or not.
Rootbeard wrote: I'm curious as to what exact stores they intend to sell these at. Toy and hobby stores don't really exist around here anymore. Would be amazing to find these sets at retailers like Target or Michaels, but I dunno if they're too general or not.
You don't have a hobby lobby, michaels, or hobby world?
I'm watching the videos GW put out and something concerns me:
They didn't seem to bring the full set of sprues from Black Reach, so there's a ton of stuff that are really weird. First off there's 6 tactical marines, not 10 or 5 (although this includes the ML and Flamer). There's 12 Ork Boyz for some reason, the Terminator Sergeant comes alone, and we only get 1 deffkopta (presumably the one that comes on the same frame as the Warboss).
For a contained game, this is good, but for the 40k ocd in me, it's gonna drive me up a tree.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: If you hear anything, let us know. I would literally run out the door right now to buy these if it were out.
I did trade email with GW US customer support. The rep was very nice, but confessed he knew very little about the line. He believes the street date will be later 2016 (lines up with the Trade Show posters saying Nov. 2016).
Otherwise no solid info. Same thing we knew from the site and videos - older sprues, easy builds, and targeting stores that do not typically carry GW products like "toy and hobby" shops, but no specific retailers mentioned.
I admit i'm a little bummed i can't get it now - but at least i know what my kids are getting for Christmas.
=]
Thank you for sharing your findings with GWCS with us. It's a shame it was not very informative, but at least we can be sure we know as much as there is to know, for the time being. And I'd sure like to get one of these kits, even as a veteran player, and either trade the marines for more IG/Orks, share them with someone who might want to try the hobby, or just do my absolute best to maybe make them look nice for my FLGS' display case or something. Not that I'm particularly worthy of that honor yet.
Vermis wrote: In that page of rules, why don't they have the little dice icons show two or more pips, rather than adding extra '1' dice...?
Just wondrin'.
i'm hoping that page displayed is not final art/layout. Because i really want them to list the dice with the unit specific "to hit/save" pips face-up instead of just the "1" pip.
but i'm wonderin' too.
Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
Eilif wrote: Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
I definitely remember going into stores like Hamlies, Toys are Us, and our local toy shop I think it was called Chalkmans. They literally had shelves of those old GW games. Entire rows of them. Part of me wonders what happened to the ones that never sold.
Yeah i can remember going into my local w h smiths or woolworths and finding all the mb games like battlemasters and heroquest .and even places like virgin mega stores would hold gw stuff in stock .this was the early 90s where even in a small town you could find gw stuff all over the place not just games and model shops .
Eilif wrote: Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
I definitely remember going into stores like Hamlies, Toys are Us, and our local toy shop I think it was called Chalkmans. They literally had shelves of those old GW games. Entire rows of them. Part of me wonders what happened to the ones that never sold.
I've worked in the toy business and the book trade.
kb_lock wrote: If you ever thought that gw models were anything but children's toys, you're delusional.
There it is!
It's kid stuff, folks. Accept it and move on, and you'll be in a much better place with your hobby.
I think this is shaping up to be a solid move from GW. Only time will tell if it pays off or not, but it's good to see them trying something different.
Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
Heck, GW mainstreaming their 40k products might even lead to something like the ratings system for videogames aimed at it. I am really interested to see how this pans out and if it ends up popular with kids, the most comparable thing i can think of like this are GI Joes, Transformers, and those other older action figures with their connected toy commercials/cartoons. Best case scenario it blows up in popularity and we get a saturday morning 40k cartoon show!
Badablack wrote: Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
Heck, GW mainstreaming their 40k products might even lead to something like the ratings system for videogames aimed at it. I am really interested to see how this pans out and if it ends up popular with kids, the most comparable thing i can think of like this are GI Joes, Transformers, and those other older action figures with their connected toy commercials/cartoons. Best case scenario it blows up in popularity and we get a saturday morning 40k cartoon show!
[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!
I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.
Badablack wrote: Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets. ......
We don't really have that whole religious moralism bit (in the UK at least) that we read about in the US. Religion is a private thing here if observed at all, so not mainstream like in the US. Declaring a love of God would loose a politician votes rather than garner them here. So while we are aware of the reaction seen in part of the US I can't say that I can remember anything similar here.
Curiously i would imagine the who slaanesh bewbs side of things being ignored while the whole WAR/GUNZ bit would be less palatable to British parents.
Yeah, I remember my mother being a bit concerned about the whole war and violence element of 40K when I was a nipper. Then she saw the amount of creativity, statistics, tactics, and fun involved and decided it wasn't something she needed to worry about.
I can't imagine a few fleshy daemonettes would have been an issue!
My mother actually got me into GW stuff by taking home a little magazine with Gorkomorka on the cover and full of model pics. I think it had rules for a Bretonnian archer vs. a Saurus as well. So cool. That was '98 (or '97?).
kb_lock wrote: If you ever thought that gw models were anything but children's toys, you're delusional.
There it is!
It's kid stuff, folks. Accept it and move on, and you'll be in a much better place with your hobby.
Agreed.
Embrace the Lewis'ian approach to "childishness" and be ok with your toys. I wouldn't still be in this hobby if not for all the lovely painted toy soldiers. There is no shame in that and to try and argue that they are not toys is just silly.
While I would find it hard to direct someone of "average" means to introduce their child to the rather expensive 40k hobby, I do hope that this toy-store 40k line draws folks into the wargaming hobby in the same way that so many of us (even those who have now left 40k) were drawn into the hobby by GW in our childhoods.
When Books-A-Million! was crushing the D&D 4e 'red box' they wouldn't even let the staff pillage the dice before crushing the lot....
Thirty six sets of dice... just... gone....
The Auld Grump - 4e did a lot of damage to the reputation of the brand with book stores. With Essentials WotC allowed stores to destroy, rather than return, unsold product. The stores greatly prefer stripping and destroying unsold stock.
[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!
I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.
Rambo and Mortal Kombat got cartoon adaptations. Don't underestimate the ability of executives to completely misinterpret the material.
Badablack wrote: Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!
[Cartoon episode showing Guardsmen being messily eaten by 'Nids/dismembered by Khorne Berzerkers]
Commissar: DRIVE THEM BACK, FOR THE EMPEROR!
[Fires bolt pistol, blood sprays on face]
[Transition to commercial break]
Commissar, to audience: Remember what happened to Guardsman Granger? He got messily slaughtered in battle because he failed to have a healthy breakfast today! Remember kids, start your day right with a box of crunch Cadi-O's! They're Imperi-licious! Buy some today... OR BE LABELLED A FILTHY HERETIC, TRAITOROUS SCUM!
I dunno, feels like maybe not the best idea with 40k with its present amount of grimdark.
Rambo and Mortal Kombat got cartoon adaptations. Don't underestimate the ability of executives to completely misinterpret the material.
AND RoboCop and the hyper violent comic book Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And The Toxic Avenger. They also had toy lines.
Badablack wrote: Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!
Wholesome fun for the whole family!
I am tired of this ridiculous argument and cheap swipes at people because of their religion.
It is because of the "badness" of the deed multiplied by the probability of it happening. Everybody agrees violence is bad, much worse than sex. Chance that playing with toy tanks etc. makes my kids into violent sociopaths is low. While not anywhere near as bad as murdering somebody, lots of people make terrible choices about sex with lifelong consequences, especially when they are young. Relative chance that my kids make a big life altering mistake tied up with sex is high ( getting somebody pregnant, getting an STD, photos you can't delete, etc. etc.) I believe that rampant sexualization of every aspect and corner of society is far more likely to push my kids over a low threshold threat line than toy tanks, military aircraft, etc. are to promote actual real world violence. I like to think there's are lots of people who agree.
In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.
Furthermore, after taking a cheap swipe at people that have different standards, the solution is always what? To get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence? Prodos would love to hear your ideas about the former.
Badablack wrote: Did GW products ever get hit like D&D/videogames/rock music/etc by conservative politicians and parents as being a bad influence on children in Europe? I could see some protests and minor backlash if slaanesh demons start showing up on ToysRUs shelves. I can guarantee Hobby Lobby won't stock any GW products, they're as conservative christian as it gets.
Bet they stock plenty of model tanks, fighters and guns though!
Wholesome fun for the whole family!
I am tired of this ridiculous argument and cheap swipes at people because of their religion.
It is because of the "badness" of the deed multiplied by the probability of it happening. Everybody agrees violence is bad, much worse than sex. Chance that playing with toy tanks etc. makes my kids into violent sociopaths is low. While not anywhere near as bad as murdering somebody, lots of people make terrible choices about sex with lifelong consequences, especially when they are young. Relative chance that my kids make a big life altering mistake tied up with sex is high ( getting somebody pregnant, getting an STD, photos you can't delete, etc. etc.) I believe that rampant sexualization of every aspect and corner of society is far more likely to push my kids over a low threshold threat line than toy tanks, military aircraft, etc. are to promote actual real world violence. I like to think there's are lots of people who agree.
In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.
I doubt having Slaaneshi models will turn the children into orgy participants, and as long as they have info of contraceptives and everyone' is consenting, who cares if they are? Tanks are designed for war, and the chances that a toy version will turn the children into war criminals is fairly low. In that same spirit, a daemonette model is unlikely to turn the children towards "unwholesome" things. We really need to stop demonizing sex as if it's the greatest threat to our existence.
Furthermore, after taking a cheap swipe at people that have different standards, the solution is always what? To get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence? Prodos would love to hear your ideas about the former.
Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?
Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?
Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:
That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".
Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.
I have to agree that the folks poking fun at religious folks are being both generalizing and insulting.
I was raised by very religious American parents and they were equally protective of how we were exposed to sex and violence as young kids. I plan to treat my kids similarly.
AND RoboCop and the hyper violent comic book Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And The Toxic Avenger. They also had toy lines.
Aliens and The Terminator both got a toy line.
Man, the 80s and 90s were great.
That's a good point, but I think there are two separate situations here. Its not at all uncommon for an IP to have both an adult and child version. TMNT and Robocop is a good example of this. Most kids who whatched any of the TV versions of TMNT had no idea about the comics and kids could play with robocop toys and watch the cartoon without seeing the movie.
However, the Terminator and Aliens toys are certainly a good example of adult-only IP with toy lines. Very much of my generation. I remember being baffled how my friends (Young elementary age) had seen these movies and had the toys based on R rated movies. I had TMNT and GI Joe, but both of those were based on heavily sanitized TV cartoons.
mikhaila wrote: Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?
Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:
That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".
Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.
I'm not saying we need to tell the kids that Santa isn't real. I might be bitter but I'm not a Grinch. The statement was in response to Galahad's comment: "...get our priorities straight and have kids(or adults) start playing games about fictional sex instead of games about fictional violence?"
If we're dealing with mature themes such as sex or violence, a sitdown and discussion might benefit everyone involved, an acknowledgement that there is a difference between reality and fantasy. As they mature, deepen the gap between the 2. I got into the hobby at 10, and I believe many others did too, and by then that distinction had been made.
I doubt having Slaaneshi models will turn the children into orgy participants, and as long as they have info of contraceptives and everyone' is consenting, who cares if they are? Tanks are designed for war, and the chances that a toy version will turn the children into war criminals is fairly low. In that same spirit, a daemonette model is unlikely to turn the children towards "unwholesome" things. We really need to stop demonizing sex as if it's the greatest threat to our existence.
Amen (Praise Slaanesh?) I'm tired of the thought that sex should be harder to talk about and explain than mass genocide.
Didn't mean to start a religious argument, but conservative christian run businesses and organizations not stocking/allowing certain things is usually less about the religion itself and more the committees that run them being full of opinionated old buttheads pushing their own particular beliefs over everything else.
Amen (Praise Slaanesh?) I'm tired of the thought that sex should be harder to talk about and explain than mass genocide.
I mostly agree with you, but there is a difference. As an example, 5 year olds can (and inevitably do) play at low-level and controlled violence without notable negative consequences and this is even without "playing" war. Wrestling, most team sports, imitating comic book heroes, etc.
However, 5 year olds cannot play at sex.
That is not in any way to say that sex is more harmful than violence or to justify various taboo's, but the two are not equivocal or necessarily age-appropriate at the same ages or to the same degrees.
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial for the Atari was the worst piece of gak ever made. You couldn't walk through 2 screens without getting caught. I still have no idea how you were supposed to play that fething game.
In summary, I don't want my kids exposed to or playing with nude or sexualized models, but I don't mind them playing with toy tanks (even though I abhor rw violence), because it is much more likely they make a life changing mistake related to sex than related to tanks. If you think that is contradictory, you don't understand probability or lack life experience.
Can you see how relating nude models to potential sexual behavior is different than equating models of tanks to tank-related behavior? In the former instance, You've equated nudity with something commonly associated with it, namely sexuality. In the latter you've equated tanks with tanks. Either you'd have to be worried about raising potential nudists, or you'd have to admit that tanks have a common association with violence to be consistent. I'd go further to say that when speaking about probabilities, roughly 25% of US high school students report having been involved in physical violence, contrasted with roughly 5% reporting having sex before age 13 (YRBS).
I think you're absolutely right that there are things that parents can and should do to ensure that their children don't receive unhealthy cultural messages. I just don't think it is realistic to say that violence is somehow less of a problem than poor sexual choices, or that one has fewer consequences long-term.
mikhaila wrote: Or you could just be rational and teach your children to separate fantasy from reality?
Skipping the arguement, but commenting on this statement:
That's pretty tough to actually do until a certain age. Santa Claus, fairy tales, anything on TV, and most of the books they read are very real to young children. Be pretty damn boring if you end every story with "and now lets discuss why the story we just read isn't real".
Let kids have their fun. They'll have to deal with reality soon enough anyway.
For the bargain hunters out there. The prices so far don't seem terrible, but I'm thinking that being sold at more outlets may make for may more chances to get them on sale.
Gosh, I'm genuinely surprised by this move from GW. I sure hope it is successful. I'd love a chance to pick up some more Khorne Berserker clones, and even some old Plague Marine clones.
Aspiring Champion wrote: Gosh, I'm genuinely surprised by this move from GW. I sure hope it is successful. I'd love a chance to pick up some more Khorne Berserker clones, and even some old Plague Marine clones.
Not my models.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I still prefer those Berzerkers to the multipart ones.
I think that the idea of selling GW products at other stores is a good idea in theory. However, in practice, which stores would actually carry their products? Around these parts, most toy stores and hobby shops have closed. The only toy store left is Toys R Us. The other stores that stock toys are big chains like Wal Mart and Target.
Gw has built a portfolio of stand alone board games that could be sold in such stores. However, their price point is so high I cannot imagine that a Wal Mart buyer would give the green light to a board game that costs more than $100.
. Besides, the kopta gets 2 rokkit shots. Too many indications if you ask me.
