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2016/02/16 16:30:09
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2016/02/16 20:12:29
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Gone are the days when our hobby was generally considered for the mature, where W40K carried strong adult themes. Gone is any remnant where painting Citadel miniatures could be considered an art.
Coming are the days where our hobby will be viewed as grown men playing with children's toys. The intentions of purchase and ownership questioned and scrutinized... Men thought of as child predators before hobby enthusiasts while standing in the checkout line.
Citadel miniatures are now; officially; and hence forth... Children's toys. Congratulations to you GW, you are now; officially, and hence forth... A toy company. Your mantra of being "not a game company" is officially true and undeniable more then ever now.
Selling W40K kits to kids will not increase sales, it will not yield regular customers, it will not start kids on a path to greater "hobby" endeavors - it's the complete wrong demographic and to limited of exposure. Kids are far too fickle; have far too short of attention spans and generally only want what they see on TV - We're all royally fethed if GW starts making commercials that air on during children's cartoons.
This move is by far the most short sighted, ill conceived attempt at increasing sales that I've seen GW try. Mark my word this day... No one will benefit from this.
Wow, over the top much? I grew up playing, building and modeling through my early teens to my now 30's. Let me tell you, them being in toy stores isn't going to make people suddenly think things they didn't before. And jesus, where is a male adult buying a toy in a toystore considered a child predator. Extremes much?
Glad I'm not the only one to think of Oni's statements as being a bit of an over reaction.
I first bought 2nd Ed 40K from the Toy section of an Argos catalogue.
Plus, in my experience, there are plenty of people out there who view all wargaming, whether the various flavours of sci-fi/fantasy or the most serious of historicals, as toys anyway.
Yes, perhaps a bit extreme, but only because I'm passionate about this hobby. I view these build+paint kits as a blow to the credibility of the hobby and it frustrates me greatly.
Additionally, I'm not wrong about this sales campaign being short sighted and ill conceived - it will not yield new, repeat / long term customers. Let me Chicken-Little for a moment here... [Chicken-Little] What's even more unfortunate is that because these kits will be cheaper than the norm, veteran hobbyist's will purchase these kits looking for a deal; falsely causing GW to think that the build+paint sales campaign is a success. They will look at the sales data and form their false notions that kids are begging their parents to buy this gak and it'll just snowball from there. [/Chicken-Little]
@Hulksmash - Starting this "hobby" in your teenage years is pretty normal, not when you're 8 years old, which is the age stated on the boxes of these new kits.
Hmmm, how to break this to you. Okay straight out then.......you already play with toys, children's or otherwise.
Wh40k has had a bit on the back since the day dot suggesting 11 years and over and still does. We were all children once sneering at children joining the hobby and at products aimed at facilitating that seems childish in itself. This is all about fresh blood and expandongbthe hobbies grass roots and is more than welcome in my book.
2016/02/16 20:41:11
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
- C.S. Lewis
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/16 20:41:31
2016/02/16 22:01:28
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
I fail to see how it can be anything but good for the hobby, new blood and all that, quite a lot of GW customers started out on stuff bought in toy shops in the past.
The kits seem to be the easy to assemble ones too and some snap fit.
Bodes well for the future as far as I am concerned, I am having a hard time trying to find fault.
I dont think GW was ever one hundred percent aimed at more mature audiences, no matter what they claim, at a push you could say it was aimed at the more mature teenagers initially, but it was never aimed soley at adults.
2016/02/16 22:21:57
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Wulfmar wrote: Gorkamorka..... there's a name I've not heard for a long time.
Are the rules available online somewhere (only if it's legal to say, as it's long been OOP and potentially not an issue to share?) - genuine question that isn't supporting illegal activity, so please don't jump on me (unless you're attractive, then go for it)
I think that Yak Tribe has the main rules, and maybe more.
The Auld Grump - one of the players in the old group had a vehicle painted up as The General Lee.... his tribe was called The Orks of Hazzard....
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/02/16 22:36:49
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
oni wrote: @Hulksmash - Starting this "hobby" in your teenage years is pretty normal, not when you're 8 years old, which is the age stated on the boxes of these new kits.
Me and my little buddies were hugely into warhammer when we were in primary school, around age 7-10 - sharing our limited knowledge of the setting in the playground, drawing pictures of space marines and boltguns, poring over copies of white dwarf at sleepovers. Obviously we couldn't afford to build armies at that stage but we all prized the odd kits or blisters we were able to coerce out of our parents, read white dwarf and all the weird publications like Inferno, etc. You're just dead wrong with this idea that it's purely a teenage and up thing. All you're really doing is parading your own hang-ups.
2016/02/16 22:50:39
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/16 22:56:24
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
I suppose I haven't browsed their webpage for these kits thoroughly enough, but when exactly are these supposed to be released? And has there been any specific mention as to which retailers will carry these sets/those retailers they plan to get involved with?
the original rumor said sometime during Fall, most likely October-November.
I haven't followed closely yet so it might have changed but I see nothing that says so :/
Again I really wish I was wrong. The moment these come out I'm grabbing 2 to finish my Space Marine Company.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/16 23:23:59
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I really hope they release this sooner than their designated date. I really loved the old Black Reach models and waiting another 8 months is going to be painful.
I suppose I haven't browsed their webpage for these kits thoroughly enough, but when exactly are these supposed to be released? And has there been any specific mention as to which retailers will carry these sets/those retailers they plan to get involved with?
I'm a bit confused by this as well - the site is live and public facing. I can't believe they'd put it out in front of the public and news/rumor sites *8* months before product hits shelves.
And the end of the "Battle for Vedros: how to play" youtube vid has a graphic with big white letters proclaiming "AVAILABLE NOW IN ALL GOOD TOY STORES".
However no internet search has turned up the product in any stores.
So I really don't know.
I may contact GW customer support and ask.
2016/02/16 23:35:17
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
If you hear anything, let us know. I would literally run out the door right now to buy these if it were out.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/16 23:37:23
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Is that website actually publicized yet? It seems to me that it's a website that's ready to go (and live), but isn't intended to have traffic yet. Among other things, when you click to buy it from GW, it's not available there
2016/02/16 23:40:40
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
There's no way to get to the Vedros website without actually searching "Battle for Vedros", at least for the canadian website, so I guess it's not suppose to be live yet.
However GW never does something like this months early; website crap usually go up within a week or two of release.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/16 23:47:41
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Remember a lot of the toy store chains are buying their Christmas 2016 stock right now and are going to basically be done by the end of march at the latest
If GW intends to sell into that market they'll have to have stuff to show well in advance and that could well include a working website to demonstrate the 'support' they're going to provide
it's not like their existing game store accounts where they can just ring up and say 'next week we have X, how many units do you want'
2016/02/16 23:55:04
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
I'm curious as to what exact stores they intend to sell these at. Toy and hobby stores don't really exist around here anymore. Would be amazing to find these sets at retailers like Target or Michaels, but I dunno if they're too general or not.
I'm hoping at the local toys are us. That way they might even do bigger discounts on slow days and I can nab an entire Company on the cheap!
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/17 00:08:43
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Rootbeard wrote: I'm curious as to what exact stores they intend to sell these at. Toy and hobby stores don't really exist around here anymore. Would be amazing to find these sets at retailers like Target or Michaels, but I dunno if they're too general or not.
You don't have a hobby lobby, michaels, or hobby world?
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2016/02/17 00:19:24
Subject: Re:GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Rootbeard wrote: Toy and hobby stores don't really exist around here anymore.
Toy stores would be Toys "R" Us. Hobby stores would be HobbyTown USA, Michael's and Hobby Lobby.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2016/02/17 03:00:34
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
I'm watching the videos GW put out and something concerns me:
They didn't seem to bring the full set of sprues from Black Reach, so there's a ton of stuff that are really weird. First off there's 6 tactical marines, not 10 or 5 (although this includes the ML and Flamer). There's 12 Ork Boyz for some reason, the Terminator Sergeant comes alone, and we only get 1 deffkopta (presumably the one that comes on the same frame as the Warboss).
For a contained game, this is good, but for the 40k ocd in me, it's gonna drive me up a tree.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
2016/02/17 03:40:53
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: If you hear anything, let us know. I would literally run out the door right now to buy these if it were out.
I did trade email with GW US customer support. The rep was very nice, but confessed he knew very little about the line. He believes the street date will be later 2016 (lines up with the Trade Show posters saying Nov. 2016).
Otherwise no solid info. Same thing we knew from the site and videos - older sprues, easy builds, and targeting stores that do not typically carry GW products like "toy and hobby" shops, but no specific retailers mentioned.
I admit i'm a little bummed i can't get it now - but at least i know what my kids are getting for Christmas.
=]
2016/02/17 22:25:06
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Thank you for sharing your findings with GWCS with us. It's a shame it was not very informative, but at least we can be sure we know as much as there is to know, for the time being. And I'd sure like to get one of these kits, even as a veteran player, and either trade the marines for more IG/Orks, share them with someone who might want to try the hobby, or just do my absolute best to maybe make them look nice for my FLGS' display case or something. Not that I'm particularly worthy of that honor yet.
Vermis wrote: In that page of rules, why don't they have the little dice icons show two or more pips, rather than adding extra '1' dice...?
Just wondrin'.
i'm hoping that page displayed is not final art/layout. Because i really want them to list the dice with the unit specific "to hit/save" pips face-up instead of just the "1" pip.
but i'm wonderin' too.
2016/02/23 20:17:22
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
Eilif wrote: Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
I definitely remember going into stores like Hamlies, Toys are Us, and our local toy shop I think it was called Chalkmans. They literally had shelves of those old GW games. Entire rows of them. Part of me wonders what happened to the ones that never sold.
2016/02/23 22:09:06
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Yeah i can remember going into my local w h smiths or woolworths and finding all the mb games like battlemasters and heroquest .and even places like virgin mega stores would hold gw stuff in stock .this was the early 90s where even in a small town you could find gw stuff all over the place not just games and model shops .
2016/02/23 22:25:40
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
Eilif wrote: Just heard about this. Seems like a very wise choice for GW to get back into toy stores. In the 90's there was Heroquest, and Battlemasters in shops (the UK had Space Crusade as well).
The connection to Warhammer wasn't as clear, but the boxes said "Games Workshop" on the back, the models were almost exactly the same as Citadel models and they fluff, names and art were there in some form. It's been almost 20 years since kids walking the toy aisle of Toys 'R' Us could find a GW-gateway product. I'm surprised it took them this long.
I'm very curious to see what the price-point will be. GW hates to make anything too much of a bargain, but anything near GW's usual pricepoint is going to be pretty steep compared to other games.
I definitely remember going into stores like Hamlies, Toys are Us, and our local toy shop I think it was called Chalkmans. They literally had shelves of those old GW games. Entire rows of them. Part of me wonders what happened to the ones that never sold.
I've worked in the toy business and the book trade.
You... don't want to know.
The Auld Grump - I wish that I didn't.
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2016/02/29 03:40:26
Subject: GW new "build + paint" range, moving to models stores
