That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

that is what Alpha Strike is for!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

Conveniently enough, both starters come with rules for Classic Battletech (more 80s than an airbrushed van) and Alpha Strike.

I don't think that's true. The Alpha Strike cards in the A Game of Armored Combat box are pilot cards (oddly enough). Alpha Strike Commander's Edition is listed as a separate, upcoming release for this year.

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

 judgedoug wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

that is what Alpha Strike is for!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

Conveniently enough, both starters come with rules for Classic Battletech (more 80s than an airbrushed van) and Alpha Strike.

I don't think that's true. The Alpha Strike cards in the A Game of Armored Combat box are pilot cards (oddly enough). Alpha Strike Commander's Edition is listed as a separate, upcoming release for this year.

You know, you're right! I guess I was thrown off by those Alpha Strike Cards. Oops!

Davor wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

And I never disagreed with that, nor did I say anything like you are accusing me of.

Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

The Alpha Strike rules do not feel dated as they are designed in a more modern feel.. The same with other modern rulesets like Mech Attack that distill BT rules down into something that feels less like products of the 80's.

Ah, well, you committed the cardinal sin of criticising the rules, old chap. Never do that.

I'm a fan of Battletech and all things Battletech related. I love the boardgame, I love the miniatures, I loved the cartoon, I've loved all of the main computer games (that I'm old enough to have played) from the Mechwarrior series to the Mechcommander series (the new Battletech video game is also quite nifty, though somewhat limited in scope).

I recently reinstalled and played through Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, Mechcommander 2 and am now playing the hell out of Mechwarrior Online. I play almost no sessions of the boardgame apart from infrequent battles with my brother.

Here's what I think. Opinions! On the internet! That don't totally resemble outright complaints!

The early Battletech/Mechwarrior games, like Mechwarrior 2/Mercs, suffer from the restrictions of the time. As a direct boardgame comparison, they're action-packed but with a layer of thoughtfulness surrounding the affair: Heat management is key, as in the boardgame, but lack of melee means long range weapons take over. Mechcommander 2 has kind of the same "issues", such as they are, but further simplifies everything further; no real heat management in-game, no melee... It effectively encourages you to turn everything into a "boat": An LRM boat, a laser boat, etc.

Still fun games!

Fast forward to the new Battletech video game and Mechwarrior Online, and the games start to break away further, adding complexity back in but significantly changing the mechanics behind things. For having to somehow capture the atmosphere of the boardgame, as well as staying true to the earlier video games, they're pretty innovative in the way that they manage to more readily instil a sense of character in the mechs, as an example. Retconning and changing the availability of certain weapons to different factions, introducing "hardpoints", stability ratings, upping the importance of design quirks and making them central, etc. All of this has made the two current computer game versions of Battletech much more characterful and fun.

I suppose you could suggest a rewrite of the rules that involves some level of simplification, while adding in new factors like the above suggestions (Alpha Strike is one way of doing it, but that feels too much like it went down the path of Mechcommander 2, while I prefer the current battle mechanics of the new Battletech game), but if you do then you'd better have an escape plan because those grognards are going to come for you. They're going to chase you down like the absolute dog you are. They will hold you down, immobile, and bring their faces as close as possible so you can FEEL the painfully quiet whisper that escapes their cracked, dry mouths....

"There's nothing wrong with this ruleset. We've played it since it came out, 1884, I think, and we'll play it even when we're heads in jars... Be away with you.... Leave us beeeeeee...."

And with that, they will crumble to dust and blow away in the wind as you unfold your paper maps, unpack your 1980s-designed miniatures, and shout "Alright then, how about a ga-... lads? Lads? Anyone? Anyone for a game of.. Battletech...?"

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

Battletech rules are dated as they are a product of their time. But that is also part of their charm and it's why games like Advanced Squad Leader have remained largely unchanged as well - there's a continual core audience for that style of rules. While they are complex, they have a certain feel to them, and it really is enjoyable to play a lance on lance encounter with actual Battletech rules. Of course, I prefer larger and quicker games so my go-to is Alpha Strike nowadays.

Interestingly the new Adeptus Titanicus appears to be borrowing MORE from Battletech than the original Adeptus Titanicus did!

 ekwatts wrote:
I suppose you could suggest a rewrite of the rules that involves some level of simplification, while adding in new factors like the above suggestions (Alpha Strike is one way of doing it, but that feels too much like it went down the path of Mechcommander 2, while I prefer the current battle mechanics of the new Battletech game), but if you do then you'd better have an escape plan because those grognards are going to come for you. They're going to chase you down like the absolute dog you are. They will hold you down, immobile, and bring their faces as close as possible so you can FEEL the painfully quiet whisper that escapes their cracked, dry mouths....

"There's nothing wrong with this ruleset. We've played it since it came out, 1884, I think, and we'll play it even when we're heads in jars... Be away with you.... Leave us beeeeeee...."

And with that, they will crumble to dust and blow away in the wind as you unfold your paper maps, unpack your 1980s-designed miniatures, and shout "Alright then, how about a ga-... lads? Lads? Anyone? Anyone for a game of.. Battletech...?"

Oh my god this had me rolling.

Over the top and dumb, but funny as hell!

 judgedoug wrote:
Battletech rules are dated as they are a product of their time. But that is also part of their charm and it's why games like Advanced Squad Leader have remained largely unchanged as well - there's a continual core audience for that style of rules. While they are complex, they have a certain feel to them, and it really is enjoyable to play a lance on lance encounter with actual Battletech rules. Of course, I prefer larger and quicker games so my go-to is Alpha Strike nowadays.

Interestingly the new Adeptus Titanicus appears to be borrowing MORE from Battletech than the original Adeptus Titanicus did!

Yeah, I definitely find charm in Battletech's rules and I think there is something to be said of a rule set that needed only moderate tweaks over 30 years and still functions well.



Battletech isn't a perfect system, and besides unit/weapons bloat its major crime is being slow, but those limitations can be navigated by a player group willing to house rule or with products like Alphastrike (or the old Battleforce games).

Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Davor wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

And I never disagreed with that, nor did I say anything like you are accusing me of.

Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

The Alpha Strike rules do not feel dated as they are designed in a more modern feel.. The same with other modern rulesets like Mech Attack that distill BT rules down into something that feels less like products of the 80's.

First off, sorry if you think I have accused you of something. I haven't What did I accuse you of? I said I don't understand. I asked if you don't play new games because you said. "but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch" to me it seemed you would have to learn new rules so don't want to play it. So how is that accusing you of anything? I asked a question so I can understand your point of view. There was no attack. Again I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you, I wasn't, I was trying to see your point of view.


As for the rules being dated, yes they are. That is a good thing and a bad thing. Good thing is, it stays the same and proves you don't need to change the rules all the time. Bad thing is now that games take too long and being an old fart now, don't have the time some times for those long games. Playing other games now where you control more units but playing less time is what I like now. I never played Alpha Strike because nobody is playing it that I know of. So here is hoping this can be a launch for new players and get back to a game I so use to love.

As has been said above, there are reasons why Battletech being the same as it's ever been is actually a positive for a lot of people, even people who also like other games with more modern rules. Sometimes, you're just in the mood for that kind of games, and they are the same they've ever been. To play Battletech you don't really need much more than the datatsheets, hex maps, standees/minis, dice and the reference cards from the box. Having the rules booklet from the box is nice, but it mostly sits there unused.

The setting and (IMHO) the advanced rules and tech proliferation makes the game overly complex and in a lot of ways (to me) unfun, but the starter box Battletech experience still holds, IMHO, even if it shows its age on the sleeve. Not all the time, not exclusively, but I would rather not play any game exclusively, so...

"Endurance BattleTech" was one of the best things I've ever come up with precisely because the rules are so complex (and, in some instances, complicated).

Endless hours (and weekends) grinding away at the same game, using every 'Mech under the sun. Amazing fun.

Battletech provides a very specific gameplay experience, which, if you're in the mood for it, is some of the best gameplay experience you can ever have. You just need to be in the mood for it.

For everything else, there's Alpha Strike!

Regardless, the new box sets are a deal, and are going up for preorder VERY SOON and should be released right after GENCON!

Triple9 wrote:
Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

That's kinda funny, as one of my worst experiences of Gen Con was playing in the Trial of Bloodright (basically grinder, 24 players on one map with only Clan mechs). bag player being loud, telling other players they were stupid and idiots and telling them how to play, and being a general hat. He apparently had a history of it and the judges just put up with him until I called him and the judges on it.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Triple9 wrote:
Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

That's kinda funny, as one of my worst experiences of Gen Con was playing in the Trial of Bloodright (basically grinder, 24 players on one map with only Clan mechs). bag player being loud, telling other players they were stupid and idiots and telling them how to play, and being a general hat. He apparently had a history of it and the judges just put up with him until I called him and the judges on it.

Yeah, that really sucks. I luckily haven't had the belligerent uber-gamer experience; worst I've had is the forgot the daily(weekly?) shower gamer. It will be interesting to see what the tables are like this year; assuming there will be a few more first time folks introduced from the video game.

One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

So when does this actually come out and can you get it in the uK?

From https://bg.battletech.com/news/first-look-miniatures-from-upcoming-boxed-sets/

The BattleTech Beginner Box and BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed sets are set for their debut at GenCon, with a wide release to your favorite gaming store to follow soon.

GenCon is August 2nd through the 5th.

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

 Elbows wrote:

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

Customs are tough but can be managed. My old BTech group would occasionally have custom matches, and besides being BV balanced (which can be abused) we would also incorporate other limits like no Targeting Computers and Pulse Laser combos (when that was still a thing), no TC-Warheads, etc.

If someone brought a truly abhorrent design it would usually get focus-fired to death and then the rest of us would continue on. Setting the custom games in a Solaris VII-style arena helped too.

Really, I like customs in a campaign setting. Letting a player slowly customize their `Mech over a number of sessions utilizing the salvage they earned is the ultimate Battletech experience from my point of view. Also, requiring the game mechanics for customization be adhered to helps with keeping the super-cheese designs out.

"Oh, your tech failed her roll to install that Clan ER PPC? What a shame!"

The BattleTech Beginner Box and BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed sets are set for their debut at GenCon, with a wide release to your favorite gaming store to follow soon.

Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

As for my personal views of Battletech...imagine having to learn the rules from scratch and then teaching them to every person whom I might play against-some of which only know BT from it's reputation of being a heavy ruleset that plays reeaally slow if you want to see more than a Lance of mechs on a side. With a core ruleset like Battletech, that's pretty daunting.

And while it plays much faster, Alpha Strike is a bit too boiled-down for me. Something official that falls in the middle would be nice to see -similar to Mech Attack, where you can field more than a lance per side and still have location-based damage and heat management, and still have a pretty speedy game.

So I'll preface this by saying I've never played Battletech, never even looked at the rulebook, and have no familiarity with the game as a miniatures game other than playing a few games of clix based game way back when (which was totally unrelated gameplay-wise, at least as far as I can tell). I have played the older MechWarrior and Mech Commander games and really enjoyed them however.

After doing a bit of reading, old school Battletech definitely does not seem for me (with as long as the game seems to take I'd probably get to play it once a year), but I'm intrigued by Alpha Strike. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the depth and play time of it? Is there a quick start rules or anything I can take a look at?

Also, I've noticed the upcoming Mechs in the starter sets look pretty nice, but I haven't seen any thing else advertised. Is there a way to get things like the Atlas, Timberwolf, etc....not in the starter? I remember Iron Wind made a range of metals forever ago, but it seems like there aren't a lot of minis out there for the game.

Thanks for any feedback!

 Sabotage! wrote:
Also, I've noticed the upcoming Mechs in the starter sets look pretty nice, but I haven't seen any thing else advertised. Is there a way to get things like the Atlas, Timberwolf, etc....not in the starter? I remember Iron Wind made a range of metals forever ago, but it seems like there aren't a lot of minis out there for the game.

All of the metal miniatures are made by Iron Wind Metals or by Ral Partha Europe.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

Customs are tough but can be managed. My old BTech group would occasionally have custom matches, and besides being BV balanced (which can be abused) we would also incorporate other limits like no Targeting Computers and Pulse Laser combos (when that was still a thing), no TC-Warheads, etc.

If someone brought a truly abhorrent design it would usually get focus-fired to death and then the rest of us would continue on. Setting the custom games in a Solaris VII-style arena helped too.

Really, I like customs in a campaign setting. Letting a player slowly customize their `Mech over a number of sessions utilizing the salvage they earned is the ultimate Battletech experience from my point of view. Also, requiring the game mechanics for customization be adhered to helps with keeping the super-cheese designs out.

"Oh, your tech failed her roll to install that Clan ER PPC? What a shame!"

Granted a lotta the newer offical designs are little more then someone's custom design snuck into a TRO. the Warlord is pretty much exactly the type of mech a buddy of mine always made.

@ Sabotage
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/AlphaStrikeQuick-Start-Rules.pdf?x64300 Alpha Strike's free basic rules.

The Alpha Strike Lance Packs are probably your best bet for plastic Inner Sphere minis, though they are out of print.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=alpha+strike+lance+pack

8-15 for most, although the one with the Atlas is crazy expensive- it's the only place to get that plastic Victor.

The Ironwind Metals remain the best place to get Clan mechs, like the Timberwolf.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

Didn't Leviathans also sink to the bottom of the ocean. Literally?

Thanks Ghaz and Gitzbitah. I'll have to take a look at those rules when I get home from work.

The Lance packs seem a pretty reasonable price to add some additional mechs, a shame about the Atlas being in an expensive pack. It does also seem odd the lance packs are out of print. The mechs in the new starter seem to be updated sculpts, or least cast in a material that holds detail better than the lance packs or previous starter. I wonder if Catalyst is planning on updating other mechs in the new material or resculpting in the style of the new video game.

Some places still have them in stock, but they won't last forever.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

Didn't Leviathans also sink to the bottom of the ocean. Literally?

I can't find anything on a shipment being lost at sea, but it seems the original manufacturer of the models refused to return the CAD files and molds to Catalyst forcing them to re-invest in those elements.

This info is 4 years old, so I am not sure if any new developments occurred.

https://thegaminggang.com/game-news/has-catalyst-game-labs-leviathans-crashed-and-burned/

From Catalyst Game Labs:

Spoiler:

Been a number of months since the last update as we’ve continued to investigate how to proceed with Leviathans. And the conclusions we’ve come to at this stage is there simply isn’t a short-term fix.

It’s a multi-faceted problem:

First, new CADs/renders of every ship are required. The company that previously produced the miniatures also generated the CAD/render work for us and they won’t turn those over. So not only is that a re-investment into the game again, but until very recently it was expertise we’d spent literally years trying to achieve with little to no luck.

Second, new molds are required. Once again, the company that produced the miniatures won’t give over the molds. So we have to invest into new molds. And molds like these can be $4k for a single ship.

Finally, the big box presentation simply didn’t work over-all. Yes, we sold through everything, which is fantastic! But it was a relatively small print run and the cost of the box to produce vs. how much we make leaves little on the table; not to mention how long it took to publish the first time around and it really only covered itself.

Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.

 Davespil wrote:
Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.

Kudos on the retro dig. Haven't heard of someone eating someone else's breakfast in years.


But to the point, the games have different vibes, dude. Not everyone wants to pilot a walking church that ejaculates skullz all over the place. Some people want to ride around in clunky robots kicking each other in the shins.

Will AT sell more copies? Certainly. Is AT's production value and distribution channels higher than Battletech? Absolutely, making point one a forgone conclusion. I'd guess there will be more copies of AT printed than Battletech just in general, and with GW's distribution chains and stores, those copies will be everywhere. Battletech doesn't have that sort of reach.

Are the two games appealing to the same crowd? Not sure. Battletech, even with its zany physics, is still much more "hard sci-fi" than 40k. So, what appeals to Battletech players aesthetically and game-play-wise may not be captured by AT. Also, the buy-in for Battletech will be cheaper than At and Battletech has its own customer base and nostalgia to tap into, so from a sales perspective I think Battletech and its breakfast will be fine. Battletech hasn't pulled in sales on par with GW since the 90's, but it has endured, sometimes inexplicably. In a sense it is the cockroach of Mecha gaming.

You can't defeat cockroaches. They just wait you out, then they sneak into your cupboard and eat your breakfast cereal.

Considering Adeptus Titanicus was Games Workshop's admitted rip-off of Battletech, the irony is delightful! But the dude is just trolling. It's not even worth responding.

 Davespil wrote:
Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.

Right, of course

I'm quite sure there will be audiences for both. I for example don't like the scale of the new AT at all. And design wise, well... I'd rather buy several Gundam kits for the price/size (like, dozens, if the rumours of the AT prices are any indication).

 judgedoug wrote:
Considering Adeptus Titanicus was Games Workshop's admitted rip-off of Battletech, the irony is delightful! But the dude is just trolling. It's not even worth responding.

Oh for sure. Obvious troll is obvious with his middle school-yard banter.

I am surprised he didn't say that AT's dad was tougher than Battletech's dad.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Davespil wrote:
Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.

Right, of course

I'm quite sure there will be audiences for both. I for example don't like the scale of the new AT at all. And design wise, well... I'd rather buy several Gundam kits for the price/size (like, dozens, if the rumours of the AT prices are any indication).

I am thinking that the BattleMech's from this game will be nciely in scale with the Knights from Adeptus Titanicus.

That sets up soem fun possibilities in my mind

To each their own I suppose, even if the dude is just trolling. I'd rather give Battletech a shot at 60 bucks (where I can read the quick start rules before hand) than spend 200+ on an AT starter where I can't read the rules first. Oh and Battletech has more than 4 total chassis options when the entire product line for the game is released. That is what really drives a nail into the coffin of that game for me.

When is this coming out?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Considering Adeptus Titanicus was Games Workshop's admitted rip-off of Battletech, the irony is delightful! But the dude is just trolling. It's not even worth responding.

Oh for sure. Obvious troll is obvious with his middle school-yard banter.

I am surprised he didn't say that AT's dad was tougher than Battletech's dad.

A warlord titan did kick sand into the face of a jenner IIC once

 thekingofkings wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Considering Adeptus Titanicus was Games Workshop's admitted rip-off of Battletech, the irony is delightful! But the dude is just trolling. It's not even worth responding.

Oh for sure. Obvious troll is obvious with his middle school-yard banter.

I am surprised he didn't say that AT's dad was tougher than Battletech's dad.

A warlord titan did kick sand into the face of a jenner IIC once

Pretty sure it took the Jenner's lunch money, too.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
@ Sabotage
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/AlphaStrikeQuick-Start-Rules.pdf?x64300 Alpha Strike's free basic rules.

The Alpha Strike Lance Packs are probably your best bet for plastic Inner Sphere minis, though they are out of print.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=alpha+strike+lance+pack

8-15 for most, although the one with the Atlas is crazy expensive- it's the only place to get that plastic Victor.

The Ironwind Metals remain the best place to get Clan mechs, like the Timberwolf.

Are they out of production? I found this on their online store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/pages/search-results?narrow=%5B%5B%22Categories%22%2C%22338289417%22%5D%2C%5B%22Type%22%2C%22Miniatures%22%5D%5D&category_id=338289417&category_url=%2Fcollections%2Fbattletech&disable_semantics=1

I loved BattleTech back in the eighties, but this company is doing its best to kill it off for good. I can't ever stock this game because they are always out of stock. This new set is pretty, but I am afraid we will get one shipment and then it will be out of stock for a year. I can't build a player base if new players can't get product, and in this competitive market I might as well go with Monsterapocalypse. Also, BattleTech has a long history and a bunch of technical readouts from too many different eras. They need to consolidate the product line and start over with a core of products. To this day I do not know which products are still usable, which are out of date, etc. And it's not just BattleTech, I can't get the Shadowrun core rules, or at least I couldn't until the new addition was announced. Catalyst seems to be in over their heads. They need to call that guy from "the Profit" To give them 200k seed money to stock up and meet demand. The last company to own the rights to the Vampire rpg was in a similar position, only selling online. Someone else bought the license and is re-releasing it the right way (with the original lore) and I am stocking up on that.

That is, unfortunately, quite possible. The release of the Battletech computer game should be used as effectively as possible, and a big part of that is actually having stock to sell... but well, Catalyst being the company it is, I don't quite see them capitalizing on it.

@mmmpi I know, I learned that in this thread as well. It took me by surprise. Look through your link for this- http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTech_Alpha_Strike:_Assault_Lance_Pack

The pursuit lance pack is also no longer listed. Presently, there is still stock to be had, but no more are being produced. Grab them while you can!

 Albertorius wrote:
That is, unfortunately, quite possible. The release of the Battletech computer game should be used as effectively as possible, and a big part of that is actually having stock to sell... but well, Catalyst being the company it is, I don't quite see them capitalizing on it.

While I agree somewhat on Catalyst, they ARE releasing a new edition, HAVE been promoting it alongside the computer game, and the redesigns are far more recognizable to the players of the computer game. Catalyst may be slow in this instance (should have come out in May) but they're not too dumb.

The Battletech computer game only got released in may due to unforeseen delays, too, so that means Catalyst was even more late, but they sort of lucked out, and the delay between the release of the computer game and the new starter box will "only" be of about 4-5 months.

And they are NOT releasing a new edition... they are releasing a substitute for the starter box that has been OOP for years, now. There is no new edition of the Battletech core game.

There is going to be a new edition of Alpha Strike, though. Sometime in the nearish future.

 Albertorius wrote:
The Battletech computer game only got released in may due to unforeseen delays, too, so that means Catalyst was even more late, but they sort of lucked out, and the delay between the release of the computer game and the new starter box will "only" be of about 4-5 months.

And they are NOT releasing a new edition... they are releasing a substitute for the starter box that has been OOP for years, now. There is no new edition of the Battletech core game.

There is going to be a new edition of Alpha Strike, though. Sometime in the nearish future.

You know what I mean. This thread was started by me.

It was just too good of a bait, man

 Albertorius wrote:
It was just too good of a bait, man

Hey any chance to introduce new players to not only the weirdly satisfied state that playing a game Battletech can leave your brain in, or to the fun and frantic tactics of Alpha Strike (especially on a huge terrain filled game board), and all with sweet new models, is great by me

 Gitzbitah wrote:
@mmmpi I know, I learned that in this thread as well. It took me by surprise. Look through your link for this- http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTech_Alpha_Strike:_Assault_Lance_Pack

The pursuit lance pack is also no longer listed. Presently, there is still stock to be had, but no more are being produced. Grab them while you can!

It would be nice if they said they were out of production. Literally nothing says that definitively anywhere.

That's Battletech style. Figuring out what's archived and what's not on IWM is also a fun digging expedition.

But hey, that honestly is quite a bit of Battletech's weird charm. I'll gladly spend hours poring over forums and digging through their MUL to figure out a faction appropriate lance- and undoubtedly encounter contradiction and opposition to my fidelity as soon as it hits the table. You usually discover a mech or two you haven't used before, or forgot about in the process.

Where does one even begin with learning the Battletech rules?

I'm not talking about the skirmish style Alpha Strike game, which I know is getting new rules, but the proper, handful of mechs per side, game?

For someone from the complete outside there is a shocking amount of content out there, and I can't tell RPG source-books from miniature game rules, etc...

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Where does one even begin with learning the Battletech rules?

I'm not talking about the skirmish style Alpha Strike game, which I know is getting new rules, but the proper, handful of mechs per side, game?

For someone from the complete outside there is a shocking amount of content out there, and I can't tell RPG source-books from miniature game rules, etc...

Wait a few weeks for the new box set to come out. That's where you start.

A bit more indepth? The Battletech website actually is pretty useful. Here's the info: https://bg.battletech.com/books/core_rulebooks/

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Where does one even begin with learning the Battletech rules?

I'm not talking about the skirmish style Alpha Strike game, which I know is getting new rules, but the proper, handful of mechs per side, game?

For someone from the complete outside there is a shocking amount of content out there, and I can't tell RPG source-books from miniature game rules, etc...

http://www.battletech.com/downloads/CBT-Quick-Start-Rules.pdf

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Davespil wrote:
Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.

Kudos on the retro dig. Haven't heard of someone eating someone else's breakfast in years.

In my defense, I'm old.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
But to the point, the games have different vibes, dude. Not everyone wants to pilot a walking church that ejaculates skullz all over the place. Some people want to ride around in clunky robots kicking each other in the shins.

Will AT sell more copies? Certainly. Is AT's production value and distribution channels higher than Battletech? Absolutely, making point one a forgone conclusion. I'd guess there will be more copies of AT printed than Battletech just in general, and with GW's distribution chains and stores, those copies will be everywhere. Battletech doesn't have that sort of reach.

Are the two games appealing to the same crowd? Not sure. Battletech, even with its zany physics, is still much more "hard sci-fi" than 40k. So, what appeals to Battletech players aesthetically and game-play-wise may not be captured by AT. Also, the buy-in for Battletech will be cheaper than At and Battletech has its own customer base and nostalgia to tap into, so from a sales perspective I think Battletech and its breakfast will be fine. Battletech hasn't pulled in sales on par with GW since the 90's, but it has endured, sometimes inexplicably. In a sense it is the cockroach of Mecha gaming.

You can't defeat cockroaches. They just wait you out, then they sneak into your cupboard and eat your breakfast cereal.

But these cockroaches looked out dated in the 80's when compared to Robotech and the like. I'm not an anime fan but a lot of Japanese cartoons look more advanced and stylized than Battletech.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sabotage! wrote:
To each their own I suppose, even if the dude is just trolling. I'd rather give Battletech a shot at 60 bucks (where I can read the quick start rules before hand) than spend 200+ on an AT starter where I can't read the rules first. Oh and Battletech has more than 4 total chassis options when the entire product line for the game is released. That is what really drives a nail into the coffin of that game for me.

Or, just buy the models you want and the rules instead of buying the starter. You will pay more for quaility. Battletech has more than 4 chassis cause it's been around forever. GW will add more titans as the game goes on.

 Davespil wrote:
Or, just buy the models you want and the rules instead of buying the starter. You will pay more for quaility. Battletech has more than 4 chassis cause it's been around forever. GW will add more titans as the game goes on.

GW hasn't introduced a new Titan chassis in twenty-four years. There's been Warhound, Reaver, Warlord, Imperator since 1988-1994. Their imperial chassis are the equivalent of Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault Mechs, but the difference is that there are "patterns" of each type of titan, and of course, modular weapons load-outs.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Where does one even begin with learning the Battletech rules?

I'm not talking about the skirmish style Alpha Strike game, which I know is getting new rules, but the proper, handful of mechs per side, game?

For someone from the complete outside there is a shocking amount of content out there, and I can't tell RPG source-books from miniature game rules, etc...

If you want to start out, try this:

http://www.battletech.com/downloads/CBT-Quick-Start-Rules.pdf

It has everything you need to try out the game and some in-setting fiction, to boot.

It's kind of neat how there's so much room in the giant robot genre, and so many different ways to take the tropes and flavours. GKR: Heavy Hitters, for example, makes it a sport. Giga-Robo does Japanese super-robots where Robotech does 'real' robots. Pacific Rim: Extinction punches giant monsters. I really like how Adeptus Titanicus makes them walking battleships, whereas Battletech makes them more like conventional units (and emphasises conventional units more).

 Davespil wrote:
But these cockroaches looked out dated in the 80's when compared to Robotech and the like. I'm not an anime fan but a lot of Japanese cartoons look more advanced and stylized than Battletech.

Oh my goodness, that's real comedy gold, right there.

You do realize that most of those are actually redesigns of mechas from anime series, right? And that they have been redesigned to avoid further lawsuits for their rights, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nurglitch wrote:
It's kind of neat how there's so much room in the giant robot genre, and so many different ways to take the tropes and flavours. GKR: Heavy Hitters, for example, makes it a sport. Giga-Robo does Japanese super-robots where Robotech does 'real' robots. Pacific Rim: Extinction punches giant monsters. I really like how Adeptus Titanicus makes them walking battleships, whereas Battletech makes them more like conventional units (and emphasises conventional units more).

You know, it's interesting that you say that, because back in the day we always said that the way Btech plays is very similar to Age of Sail ship combat, whereas the game we thought that was more in line with conventional combat with mechas was Heavy Gear.

I still think it, to be honest.

However you think these things line up, the point is that there's lots of different games to play with giant robots.

 Nurglitch wrote:
However you think these things line up, the point is that there's lots of different games to play with giant robots.

Oh, yeah, I wasn't disputing that in the slightest. And it's a really great thing, too

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0414/59/1437867661045.png

If you are starting, here are some lovely printout mechs to use.

And here are some battlegrounds!

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,520.0.html

Fortunately, the mechs are rated by technology levels. Stick to Basic, or Intro for now. That will leave you in 3025, during the time of the Succession Wars. At this level of tech, ton for ton matches are usually fair so you needn't mess with Battlevalue. Enjoy!

 judgedoug wrote:
The Battletech website actually is pretty useful.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Hopefully this core set won't have the horrible stock issues that the last one had.

Up until a while ago you could get all the Lance packs for 7.99 at the Warstore, but bunches are coming up out of print, now.

I'm amazed it took this long for Nurgy to show up and talk about Heavy Gear.

 General Helstrom wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
The Battletech website actually is pretty useful.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Eh?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 General Helstrom wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
The Battletech website actually is pretty useful.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Eh?

The phrase is traditionally used to signify that you've ruined a keyboard due to your drink spraying from your nose because the original comment made you laugh so hard. You then blame the original poster for the damage. In Catalysts case, it could also be because you've visited their webiste and, after a few minutes, smashed your keyboard to pieces on your desk in frustration. Both explanations work.

The website is a trainwreck, poorly organized, with broken links and pictures and long load times. It manages to tell you just enough to overwhelm you (wait there's two games? no, three. well two and a half maybe. oh and computer games too. wait what?) and just too little to make sense of it (ok so there are six different eras in battletech. that sounds like a lot. what does that mean for me as a gamer then?). It frequently links to something called battlecorps which is completely defunct. It promotes products like the 25th edition box that are long out of print. Mind you that this is supposed to be a new player's first experience! It reflects Catalysts poor product branding by referring to anything and everything as battletech, gleefully mashing the board game, the big battle game, the RPG and the slew of videogames together. Even google is like "screw these guys" and has relayed bg.battletech.com to its third page of search results.

I don't really have anything constructive to say about the website other than burn it down and build a new one, and fix your damn branding while you're at it.

Meanwhile with these new boxes coming out I may finally get to play this game with some friends as I've wanted to for years now.

As for the size and scale of mechs vs AT stuff, I'm curious how they'll scale too. if Imperial Knights are about the same size as a Battlemech mini then that could be handy from a terrain POV, as GW is making terrain kits for the game, AND there should be plenty of expertise online from the battletech community re making terrain at that scale. I could players of both games benifiting from this

AT terrain should probably be on the large side for BTech, as AT has upped their scale. That said, 6mm or 8mm scenery, well, doesn't make the difference too great to be unworkable.

 Albertorius wrote:
AT terrain should probably be on the large side for BTech, as AT has upped their scale. That said, 6mm or 8mm scenery, well, doesn't make the difference too great to be unworkable.

IIRC the AT box comes with terrain so if I snag that I might have to compare it to some of my mechs, even if it is slightly awkwardly designed I think there's eneugh size similarity that cross over experiance will be handy. This is good for both groups really.

There are some places that make BTech scale terrain. DFA Miniatures did a KS a while back and are about to go retail with their stuff.

Keep an eye out and you can use some terrain from different scales too. Here is the set I'm working on right now, a crashed spaceship in rugged mountain highlands. The trees are from AliExpress (less than €10 for what's seen here - thanks China!) and the ship is from blotz.co.uk in their 28mm sci-fi range:


Space Marine for scale:




After varnish (to take the shine off the plastic) and a drybrush with light green:




Trees make the spaceship look BIG:




The trick is to avoid pieces with easily identifiable human-sized aspects like doors, ladders and the like.

Thingiverse is a veritable treasure trove of Battletech gaming, nowadays. I'd recommend taking a look there too.

I can't say for the game, but in universe Titans are bigger. A warhound scout titan is 470 tons, or five Banshees

 General Helstrom wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 General Helstrom wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
The Battletech website actually is pretty useful.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Eh?

The phrase is traditionally used to signify that you've ruined a keyboard due to your drink spraying from your nose because the original comment made you laugh so hard.

I guess for some reason the link to the useful page didn't show up in your browser nor in your quote.

 judgedoug wrote:
The Battletech website actually is pretty useful. Here's the info: https://bg.battletech.com/books/core_rulebooks/

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are some places that make BTech scale terrain. DFA Miniatures did a KS a while back and are about to go retail with their stuff.

all micro-scale, ie, 1/285 and 1/300 scale, are Battletech compatible. There's tons and tons and TONS of terrain made over the years. My favorite though is Gamecraft Minis. http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/

 judgedoug wrote:
I guess for some reason the link to the useful page didn't show up in your browser nor in your quote.

Oh, it did... It did. It's just the general idea of the Battletech site being "useful" that got me giggling

 Davespil wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sabotage! wrote:
To each their own I suppose, even if the dude is just trolling. I'd rather give Battletech a shot at 60 bucks (where I can read the quick start rules before hand) than spend 200+ on an AT starter where I can't read the rules first. Oh and Battletech has more than 4 total chassis options when the entire product line for the game is released. That is what really drives a nail into the coffin of that game for me.

Or, just buy the models you want and the rules instead of buying the starter. You will pay more for quaility. Battletech has more than 4 chassis cause it's been around forever. GW will add more titans as the game goes on.

Yes, obviously you can play with whatever models you want, and yes the GW models are higher quality and you will pay substantially more for it (though a lot of that is the scale of AT is dumb and the Warlord is more the size of a doll than a miniature). But who has any idea if the rules are remotely good? GW will likely not add more titans as the game goes on, at least not for Imperial/Chaos factions. I've been in the GW hobby since 1996, and the Titans are the exact same then as they are now. Imperators will also never get a model, or people will have to proxy them by using their 5 year old children dressed up in baroque cardboard armor to play. They might add Knight Armingers at some point, but that's about it.

I don't see AT as a game with any longevity because of the cost of entry and lack of options for expanding upon the initial releases. I really don't see GW retconning the fluff and adding in six or seven new classes of titans.

 Davespil wrote:
Or, just buy the models you want and the rules instead of buying the starter. You will pay more for quaility. Battletech has more than 4 chassis cause it's been around forever. GW will add more titans as the game goes on.

Battletech started with more chassis than AT will ever have.

I wonder, though... do you use to go to news threads about games you apparently have no interest in to crap on them? Because it kinda feels like a werid thing to do. I mean, there's no account for taste, after all, and the starter set has much more to do with regular boardgames than with AT...

 Sabotage! wrote:

 Davespil wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sabotage! wrote:
To each their own I suppose, even if the dude is just trolling. I'd rather give Battletech a shot at 60 bucks (where I can read the quick start rules before hand) than spend 200+ on an AT starter where I can't read the rules first. Oh and Battletech has more than 4 total chassis options when the entire product line for the game is released. That is what really drives a nail into the coffin of that game for me.

Or, just buy the models you want and the rules instead of buying the starter. You will pay more for quaility. Battletech has more than 4 chassis cause it's been around forever. GW will add more titans as the game goes on.

Yes, obviously you can play with whatever models you want, and yes the GW models are higher quality and you will pay substantially more for it (though a lot of that is the scale of AT is dumb and the Warlord is more the size of a doll than a miniature). But who has any idea if the rules are remotely good? GW will likely not add more titans as the game goes on, at least not for Imperial/Chaos factions. I've been in the GW hobby since 1996, and the Titans are the exact same then as they are now. Imperators will also never get a model, or people will have to proxy them by using their 5 year old children dressed up in baroque cardboard armor to play. They might add Knight Armingers at some point, but that's about it.

I don't see AT as a game with any longevity because of the cost of entry and lack of options for expanding upon the initial releases. I really don't see GW retconning the fluff and adding in six or seven new classes of titans.

with any luck the games detailed eneugh that 1 v 1 games are doable. if you only need 4 minis for your average "medium sized game" it should actually be reasonably affordable

In related news the lead in book for IlClan "Shatterered Fortress" is going to be physically available at Gencon and digitally for the rest of us first week of August so we can start to see what the post Dark Age era will be like. I can only hope this leads to a rules tidyup and rebalance so I can get cured of my 3025 forever ways.

BrianDavion wrote:


with any luck the games detailed eneugh that 1 v 1 games are doable. if you only need 4 minis for your average "medium sized game" it should actually be reasonably affordable

I'm sure AT will be plenty detailed, the rules will probably be okay as well, this is the same studio that did the new Necromunda, which at it's core is a very fun ruleset. It is however filled with so much ambiguity and so many typos however that extensive FAQS and some houserules are required to play the game as intended.

I guess it depends on your definition or reasonably affordable, the box set will be 200+ USD (probably 250), which will not be for full "medium sized game" armies. If you only need to add say a Reaver and a couple Warhounds to each side to make a army for an average sized game (which I'm guessing would cost about 100-120 USD) that's about 225 a person, which really isn't a bad deal at all. The issue is 200+ USD for a starter to try a game isn't any easy gateway for many people. Necromunda is 125 and Blood Bowl is 100, and both those games have a well established following and people have a general idea how they will play. It's not such a gamble to pick up one of those starters.

The point I'm trying to make is that I can buy the 60$ Battletech starter, after I read the quick-start Alpha Strike rules if I'm so inclined. If I don't like the game, it's a bummer and I'm out 60 bucks. I have to go into AT blind, and if I don't like the game I'm out 200+ bucks. If I do like the game, I have to try to convince other people past that starter tag, and have to buy special carrying bags/cases for the huge Warlord if I ever intend to play anywhere other than my home.

Finally they've started IlClan. Took 'em long enough.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Finally they've started IlClan. Took 'em long enough.

Can't say I much like the idea of letting someone win, especially when the result is going to be yet another god damned time jump.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Finally they've started IlClan. Took 'em long enough.

Can't say I much like the idea of letting someone win, especially when the result is going to be yet another god damned time jump.

Ah, don't worry. It's about time for mankind to beat itself silly, then our Manei Domini overlords will emerge from their shadow worlds and take their rightful place as rulers of the entire galaxy.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Finally they've started IlClan. Took 'em long enough.

Can't say I much like the idea of letting someone win, especially when the result is going to be yet another god damned time jump.

nah apparently someone conquers the inner sphere and we fast forward some time to the inevitable "imperial collapse into decadance and decay" being used as an excuse to right the ship and restore the Inner Sphere to a reckongizedable state with a unified tech base.

 judgedoug wrote:


That pic is the product they had done early for Gencon. Catalyst loves releasing product early at Gencon, creating a black market for a few months and making their fans upset. It's like the only thing they get done on time every year!

Exalted!

Davor wrote:
Here is why BattleTech will not grow. I am not saying it's the poster but others. Heaven forbid new blood have opinions and ask questions. I can never understand if someone asks a question people have to get upset. Like really just go on the next thread. Tired of it, then why read it in the first place?

Oh? Last page you said Battletech wouldn't grow because the minis sucked. Now it is because the community sucks? Make up your mind, man!

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Oh? Last page you said Battletech wouldn't grow because the minis sucked. Now it is because the community sucks?

People can't make up their mind about why BattleTech won't grow.

And this is why BattleTech won't grow.

Davor wrote:
From my understanding, it's one of the fluff genres that don't have aliens. So it makes it a bit more unique. Also and I can be getting this wrong, it's about the strugles of humanity. So even it's in the far future, have better tech, the struggles are still going on like they are now. So no aliens are needed. For me after reading the same story over and over again, adding aliens could make a change for the better if done properly. Thing is, how do you add in aliens that haven't done before, and improve the game play without making it same as this or that, or adding in for no orginality. I see both stories for and agaisnt now. Hope this helps a bit.

That's more or less it, yeah. The main concern of the setting is how humanity is its own worst enemy towards lasting peace.

I have to say I agree with the predominant opinion here, Battletech doesn't need aliens. It's one of the reasons I like it as a science fiction setting. It is very much a "grim" future tale of ancient Rome. There are far too many science fiction settings full-to-bursting with aliens.

If people don't like an IP, there is no shortage of other ones they can enjoy or invest themselves into. I don't see the "Well, we should change it so it appeals to this other small percentage of people". The pursuit of pleasing everyone is often the death knell of a product/IP.

Battletech is more in need of cleaning up its attic than anything else. It needs a full re-design visually (they're working on it), probably a redesign in game mechanics, and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves. It's an IP and setting/product line which has become both old and way too expansive for its own good. I don't think Catalyst is the one to fix it, but this is a start.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

Spoiler:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

BattleTech

Page Liked · 40 mins ·
..
IT'S HERE!!

just posted on facebook

So when is it supposed to be available again?

In a month or two; it's still in production.

That pic is the product they had done early for Gencon. Catalyst loves releasing product early at Gencon, creating a black market for a few months and making their fans upset. It's like the only thing they get done on time every year!

Yeah, that was throwing me off, thanks.

 Elbows wrote:
I have to say I agree with the predominant opinion here, Battletech doesn't need aliens. It's one of the reasons I like it as a science fiction setting. It is very much a "grim" future tale of ancient Rome. There are far too many science fiction settings full-to-bursting with aliens.

If people don't like an IP, there is no shortage of other ones they can enjoy or invest themselves into. I don't see the "Well, we should change it so it appeals to this other small percentage of people". The pursuit of pleasing everyone is often the death knell of a product/IP.

Battletech is more in need of cleaning up its attic than anything else. It needs a full re-design visually (they're working on it), probably a redesign in game mechanics, and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves. It's an IP and setting/product line which has become both old and way too expansive for its own good. I don't think Catalyst is the one to fix it, but this is a start.

I don't think aliens would *harm* Battletech, as long as they weren't as poorly done as they were for Renegade Legion - the aliens in that game (which, to me, were based off Enemy Mine) had no impact on the game whatsoever and were very poorly fleshed out. I think, that if handled well, a true alien invasion would be interesting in Battletech - as long as the aliens drove a distinctive, unbefore-seen different tech and mechs (maybe not even Mechs but some form of alien tech that battlemechs turn out to be the "answer" to combating). A Starseige sort of AI invasion/rebellion would be interesting as well.

But I could completely do without it, so long as they don't ditch the old unseen classics.

 Stormonu wrote:
I think, that if handled well, a true alien invasion would be interesting in Battletech - as long as the aliens drove a distinctive, unbefore-seen different tech and mechs (maybe not even Mechs but some form of alien tech that battlemechs turn out to be the "answer" to combating). A Starseige sort of AI invasion/rebellion would be interesting as well.

Isn't that just Macross/Robotech and the Zentradi?

Also, this is getting waaaaaay off topic from the Battletech starter sets.

 Elbows wrote:
I have to say I agree with the predominant opinion here, Battletech doesn't need aliens. It's one of the reasons I like it as a science fiction setting. It is very much a "grim" future tale of ancient Rome. There are far too many science fiction settings full-to-bursting with aliens.

If people don't like an IP, there is no shortage of other ones they can enjoy or invest themselves into. I don't see the "Well, we should change it so it appeals to this other small percentage of people". The pursuit of pleasing everyone is often the death knell of a product/IP.

Battletech is more in need of cleaning up its attic than anything else. It needs a full re-design visually (they're working on it), probably a redesign in game mechanics, and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves. It's an IP and setting/product line which has become both old and way too expansive for its own good. I don't think Catalyst is the one to fix it, but this is a start.

You know, the interesting thing about Battletech is that it can be whatever you want it to be. In that respect, it is very much like GURPS, the D20 system, or bolt on games like that. You could probably get away with a bit of clever branding- make sure you plaster what eras each mech is ok for on its package, every website, and every sourcebook- and have a brief, informative rundown of each era in a timeline on your webpage. Make it very clear what is Core, what is Succession Wars, Jihad, Dark Ages, Clan Invasion etc.

I think a full reboot would either have to invalidate thousands of products, which with the current release schedule would NEVER be covered again, or do a Star Wars Legends style decanonization (is exocommunication the right term?)

You can historically see it having happened with Dark Ages. They did a time jump, and redesigned and rebuilt all the minis. It was ultimately unsuccessful. Conversely, Alpha Strike was a rules redesign that added rules for all existing mechs- a colossal undertaking, and put it in a free website. It is easy, intuitive, and thrives alongside Classic Battletech. Even the clever choice of label indicates that Classic is the old Battletech, not to be considered standard or regular, just Classic.

New minis are the thing that's going to grow and sell it. The Alpha Strike lance packs, but instead with 4 new mechs, will maintain momentum, and won't take up too much space in the shops. Put out 2 lances a year, or a Lance and a Star. Include cards, and folded up record sheets. Discuss with Ironwind Metals a deal to have them continue to produce the mechs that won't be covered by the plastic, or strategically place holes in the line. Welcome to your Clan Heavy Star. You've got a Nova, Mad Dog, Storm Crow, Loki and Summoner- if you want a Timber Wolf, hit up IWM.

But that's all stuff for the licenseholder to do. For now, if you're really worried about Battletech growing, buy some minis. Play some games at your gameshops, teach somebody. I've got 2 budding Alpha Strike players at home, and they're spending tomorrow attempting to teach it to their grandpa. If we love the game, play it and teach it, it will spread.

 Elbows wrote:
... and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves.

Why? And what makes them superfluous?

If you want to just play straight Battletech, then there's this. You want more depth, you get Total War and then the Tactical/Strategic/Interstellar Operations books. If you want to build your own units, you get the Tech Manual. If you want to run campaigns, you get Campaign Operations.

Everything after that - TROs, record sheets, source books, etc. - is optional. I'll agree that they are not necessary, and you can hold the opinion that they are superfluous, but for a lot of us they add to the universe even if they aren't required reading.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Well, let's put it another way- what could they add? An unknown force appears from nowhere, with equal or slightly better technology than the Inner Sphere- well, that's the Clans or Word of Blake again. Especially Word of Blake, where the Manei Dominei don't even consider themselves humans.

Biological battlemechs.... pretty much Battle Armor and Protomechs.

Perhaps play it as pockets of advanced technology left over from a vanished civilization? That's Lostech.

I'm just not sure what plots aliens could add to the mix.

Turn things around. Rather than aliens coming here have humans find them and start invasion. That is at least something not seen often. Usually it's just super powerful aliens invading humans.

Though i can live without aliens even though it lowers believability of setting

 Gitzbitah wrote:
You can historically see it having happened with Dark Ages. They did a time jump, and redesigned and rebuilt all the minis. It was ultimately unsuccessful. Conversely, Alpha Strike was a rules redesign that added rules for all existing mechs- a colossal undertaking, and put it in a free website. It is easy, intuitive, and thrives alongside Classic Battletech. Even the clever choice of label indicates that Classic is the old Battletech, not to be considered standard or regular, just Classic.

Are you familiar with what happened to BattleTech and the intellectual property when FASA decided to close shop?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTech_(board_game)#History

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Oh? Last page you said Battletech wouldn't grow because the minis sucked. Now it is because the community sucks? Make up your mind, man!

So I forgot to say "another reason".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
... and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves.

Why? And what makes them superfluous?

If you want to just play straight Battletech, then there's this. You want more depth, you get Total War and then the Tactical/Strategic/Interstellar Operations books. If you want to build your own units, you get the Tech Manual. If you want to run campaigns, you get Campaign Operations.

Everything after that - TROs, record sheets, source books, etc. - is optional. I'll agree that they are not necessary, and you can hold the opinion that they are superfluous, but for a lot of us they add to the universe even if they aren't required reading.

I don't imagine I'll end up playing Battletech again in the future (dabbled in/out since the mid-90's). However I think it's a nearly impossible product to sell to new gamers because of the completely scatter-brained "do anything" approach they've adopted with...what, thousands of mech designs? I do think there is a point where a product becomes way too big and becomes an insurmountable mountain to new gamers. The starter box will only get you so far, but then you're confronted by an avalanche of waaaaaaaay too many small PDFs and expansions. When I went back to Battletech a few years ago, I ended up just giving up and buying some old TROs on eBay and designing my own game out of it.

Yeah I don't see it.

Looking at the GW store right now, and assuming that, say, 20% of them are duplicates or bundles, there are over 1000 units for 40K, and for Warhammer (which has less overlap, so assume 10% are bundles) there would be close to 600 units.

Add in Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Quest and a few others (and terrain, which also has rules now) and it would be easy to hit 2000 units.

I don't consider GW's products to be confusing or overwhelming. Additionally, that's why so many of these products like starter boxes exist, to ease you into it.

A new BattleTech player isn't going to care that there are 29 canon variants for the BattleMaster. I'm not a new BTech player and I don't care that there are 29 BattleMaster variants. That's not going to be a factor in whether someone likes this game or not.

And the fact that they put so much into the main book (various unit types) and got away from the core of BTech is the very reason why they put the BattleTech Manual that I linked to out. It's just 'Mechs, and it's 90% of the rules that 90% of people use 90% of the time (or something along those lines).

I'm just not seeing how this "avalanche" of products is going to confuse anyone when so many of them are not required for game play.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
... and they need to cull the superfluous hundreds of books/PDFs/expansions and concentrate on making a better quality base product from which to re-establish themselves.

Why? And what makes them superfluous?

If you want to just play straight Battletech, then there's this. You want more depth, you get Total War and then the Tactical/Strategic/Interstellar Operations books. If you want to build your own units, you get the Tech Manual. If you want to run campaigns, you get Campaign Operations.

Everything after that - TROs, record sheets, source books, etc. - is optional. I'll agree that they are not necessary, and you can hold the opinion that they are superfluous, but for a lot of us they add to the universe even if they aren't required reading.

Hmmm.

It's not that the books are superfluous. It's that Catalyst seems to treat them as the be-all, end-all. It's a boardgame/miniature game hybrid in many ways, with RPG elements (with an actual RPG thrown in on top), so books are important, but their approach is scattergun in many ways, if only because they don't even appear to be able to keep what should be "core" products, like the main rulebooks you mentioned, in print, or even a proper starter kit.

And I get why, I understand the issues, etc, etc. The licensing issues are kind of crippling, considering the metal miniatures are produced over there, the written material is produced over that way, and so on. It's hard for a small company to keep product on the shelves, no doubt. But.... surely it's harder to do it if you have 100 books as opposed to, say, 15?

The five-volume core rules approach is nice, it keeps all of the rules in specific places, BUT. Having to pick up the main rules and then wait a year while they manage to push out another printing of the Tech Manual so you can actually construct mechs is kind of ludicrous. Especially when they're constantly banging on about the next sourcebook for a new era you might not even care for, release imminent! Gen Con! Maybe! Then silence for six months until it quietly creeps out onto shelves and disappears before you can get it anyway!!!!

None of the books are trash. They're nice. I love sourcebooks. Sourcebook me to death (you know, if they're affordable). But if you have people sitting on their hands waiting for a core rulebook or a boxed starter (sometimes upwards of several years) then you are shooting yourselves in the goddamn face. That is unacceptably poor. If culling the number of available print books, and future ongoing writing work means you can devote more resources to maintaining shelf space and products, then GOOD LORD why the hell won't you do that?

CGL need to really assess what they think Battletech is. They need to make real moves toward plastic miniature production. Warhansa and Insane Kangaroo are providing some of the best tabletop Battletech-related products currently available. They're doing this because CGL/IWM aren't. This can be changed.

Market Alpha Strike as a straight up skirmish miniatures game. Adopt some of the aspects of the new computer games like hardpoints, stability damage, etc. Produce mech packs for the modernised, redesigned mechs. A Marauder, Warhammer, Archer and Shadowhawk pack (just as an example) should sell pretty well. Just release two or three a year. Offer the individual mechs for sale on the website.

None of this is cheap or easy. But without making a real effort to push the game out there it's just going to continue looking like a sick man amongst much healthier games.

One thing to keep in mind ios Battletech's product cycle is more akin to an RPG setting then a wargame, of those thousands of books, over 90% of them are 90% fluff.

 ekwatts wrote:
It's not that the books are superfluous. It's that Catalyst seems to treat them as the be-all, end-all. It's a boardgame/miniature game hybrid in many ways, with RPG elements (with an actual RPG thrown in on top), so books are important, but their approach is scattergun in many ways, if only because they don't even appear to be able to keep what should be "core" products, like the main rulebooks you mentioned, in print, or even a proper starter kit.

Completely agree with you. They - Catalyst that is, I won't speak for HBS or PGI or Iron Wind - have a real problem with focus. They have a lot of ideas that they want to get out there, and sometimes certain get more attention than perhaps they really should.

For example, it's great that they finally did big source books covering the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars, but I'd argue whether they're necessary or not. Not superfluous, but for a company that needs to have its core rules and some in-store introductory material in play, why spend so much time on a pair of books that are 100% nice-to-haves and 0% need-to-haves.

And speaking of focus, even as the core books were coming out, they kept getting out of control. I mean, Interstellar and Campaign Operations exist because they just kept writing more stuff. They bit off more than they could chew several times.

 ekwatts wrote:
And I get why, I understand the issues, etc, etc. The licensing issues are kind of crippling, considering the metal miniatures are produced over there, the written material is produced over that way, and so on. It's hard for a small company to keep product on the shelves, no doubt. But.... surely it's harder to do it if you have 100 books as opposed to, say, 15?

I think that's part of why they get into the short-form PDF releases (XTRO's, Touring the Stars, etc.) because they were simple products with a (comparatively) quicker turnaround time. So whilst they work on the next Big Thing™, they can have smaller releases in between. Then the gaps started getting longer, so even the "quick" books between big books became quite rare. They also had a big period with no one captaining the ship. That cannot be ignored.

 ekwatts wrote:
The five-volume core rules approach is nice, it keeps all of the rules in specific places, BUT. Having to pick up the main rules and then wait a year while they manage to push out another printing of the Tech Manual so you can actually construct mechs is kind of ludicrous.

I think that's why the Tech Manual exists, because it's not core to the game of BattleTech, so they kept it in a separate book. It's the most optional of the core books. I also think that BattleTech manual is an example of them finally realising that they need a single product that just lets you play the core experience of BattleTech (big stompy robots fighting each other). That plus the new Starter Box, if they can sort out their supply issues and keep it supported with additional releases (those Lance Packs were ace last time around) will help them grow.

 ekwatts wrote:
Especially when they're constantly banging on about the next sourcebook for a new era you might not even care for, release imminent! Gen Con! Maybe! Then silence for six months until it quietly creeps out onto shelves and disappears before you can get it anyway!!!!

I do hope that changes. I mean, I remember the excitement of the Gen-Con before Interstellar Players 2 came out, with the guys dressed as Wobbie cultists throwing out torn pages of the book as propaganda, people online trying to work out what this was, and the boom, a whole book filled with tons of great stuff, released on the day, available for download right away. They've never captured that since.

 ekwatts wrote:
None of the books are trash. They're nice. I love sourcebooks. Sourcebook me to death (you know, if they're affordable). But if you have people sitting on their hands waiting for a core rulebook or a boxed starter (sometimes upwards of several years) then you are shooting yourselves in the goddamn face. That is unacceptably poor. If culling the number of available print books, and future ongoing writing work means you can devote more resources to maintaining shelf space and products, then GOOD LORD why the hell won't you do that?

CGL need to really assess what they think Battletech is. They need to make real moves toward plastic miniature production. Warhansa and Insane Kangaroo are providing some of the best tabletop Battletech-related products currently available. They're doing this because CGL/IWM aren't. This can be changed.

There's a market there that they are not exploiting. They are, in a lot of ways, leaving money on the table.

 ekwatts wrote:
Market Alpha Strike as a straight up skirmish miniatures game. Adopt some of the aspects of the new computer games like hardpoints, stability damage, etc. Produce mech packs for the modernised, redesigned mechs. A Marauder, Warhammer, Archer and Shadowhawk pack (just as an example) should sell pretty well. Just release two or three a year. Offer the individual mechs for sale on the website.

None of this is cheap or easy. But without making a real effort to push the game out there it's just going to continue looking like a sick man amongst much healthier games.

I personally don't like Alpha Strike because, to me at least, it defeats the purpose of why I got into BTech in the first place besides the lore (I love the super crunchy rules), but it is a good way to get people involved that they should put more into.

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing to keep in mind ios Battletech's product cycle is more akin to an RPG setting then a wargame, of those thousands of books, over 90% of them are 90% fluff.

Which is partly why people get frustrated: inability to pick up the core rulebooks for nigh on two years while waiting for reprints, having to order overpriced 1980s-era miniatures from the US, while glorified storybooks seem to be the only thing they're ever actively working on.

 ekwatts wrote:
... having to order overpriced 1980s-era miniatures from the US...

A lot of those old miniatures can be found more locally.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:
... having to order overpriced 1980s-era miniatures from the US...

A lot of those old miniatures can be found more locally.

Indeed! For prices that almost match the better redesigns being sold by Warhansa and Insane Kangaroo, once exchange rates are factored in

My point was that the miniatures are produced beyond CGL's direct control, which for most people is quite odd. Having to order miniatures from a completely separate company (whether IWM or Ral Partha) is kind of jarring to those coming into Battletech from outside.

And RPUK/EU are great, but their selection is somewhat limited and while the CGL plastics were in production, they were pretty much completely superfluous (which, while bad for Ral Partha, was no bad thing for UK Battletech fans). It illustrates what a massive advantage having their own plastics line of redesigned miniatures can really be.

so, anyway, this Awesome is pretty awesome.

Is that Awesome carved foam? I want one.

Guy in the Catalyst booth is giving a mean stink-eye, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


Though i can live without aliens even though it lowers believability of setting

In the setting explored space has not encountered advanced aliens. There *are* aliens in Battletech but they are the flora and fauna kind that can make colonizing a planet difficult. Personally, I find the lack of advanced civilizations makes the setting more believable. I figure we are going to find the equivalent of space bugs and space cows and space oak trees before we find an Eldar or Tau type civilization.

But again, this is so off topic from a Battletech news perspective, it almost feels like trolling. Not saying you are trolling tneva82, but rather this whole aliens tangent is annoying and started by someone who has questionable intentions in this thread imo.

CGL Employee is not amused.

Starter sets looks good. I'm wondering if I should try and flog my complete last version starter set for some funds on eBay. They seem to sell well.

 infinite_array wrote:

Starter sets looks good. I'm wondering if I should try and flog my complete last version starter set for some funds on eBay. They seem to sell well.

Now might be the time to do it. As judgedoug said earlier, there will be a sort of black market for the new starter sets for the next month or two until they hit full retail. People missing out on the new sets might be interested in getting an older one to hold them over in the meanwhile.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

Starter sets looks good. I'm wondering if I should try and flog my complete last version starter set for some funds on eBay. They seem to sell well.

Now might be the time to do it. As judgedoug said earlier, there will be a sort of black market for the new starter sets for the next month or two until they hit full retail. People missing out on the new sets might be interested in getting an older one to hold them over in the meanwhile.

If it is the 2014 reissue with the sweet Atlas on the cover, yes, do sell. You could then use the money to buy all the Lance Packs on the cheap and get back all the mechs plus extras, and still have money to buy the new starters.

Davor wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
How do aliens miss the point of Battletech?

From my understanding, it's one of the fluff genres that don't have aliens. So it makes it a bit more unique. Also and I can be getting this wrong, it's about the struggles of humanity. So even it's in the far future, have better tech, the struggles are still going on like they are now. So no aliens are needed. For me after reading the same story over and over again, adding aliens could make a change for the better if done properly. Thing is, how do you add in aliens that haven't done before, and improve the game play without making it same as this or that, or adding in for no originality. I see both stories for and against now. Hope this helps a bit.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining!

Here are pictures of the annual Gen Con Camo Specs Online diorama.

Looks like they went for the classic fight of Wolf's Dragoons versus House Kurita on the ice world Misery. The starter box minis were used for much of this piece.

Lookit all them redesigned Macross mechs that they are now allowed to use

That Archer is SWEET (and so is the Marauder sure)

The Atlas punch is my favorite. Don't feth with Zeta Battalion!

The Archer and Marauder are gorgeous. Can't wait to get some!

 judgedoug wrote:
so, anyway, this Awesome is pretty awesome.

Oh my. Is this Magnus the Red ride? I wouldn;t have noticed but the cannons stick out so much because they are painted all I can think of is Magnus the Red now.


One thing I really like what Catalyst does is, their PDFs are so much cheeper than the paper versions. So while the rules could be like $50 Cdn, the PDF is $15 Cdn. So if you don't want paper format their PDF versions are really costed properly. A good way of getting into Battletech if you don't mind not having hard copies.

Those new mechs in the display look pretty nice. Is that Atlas a new sculpt or the plastic one repositioned? It looks much better than all the other pics of the plastic models I have seen.

Oh my. I am wrong. Seeing those minis painted, they are really good. I was so wrong about the quality of the minis from my previous statements about bad quality minis.

I may complain a lot, but I will admit when I am wrong.

 Sabotage! wrote:
Those new mechs in the display look pretty nice. Is that Atlas a new sculpt or the plastic one repositioned? It looks much better than all the other pics of the plastic models I have seen.

It looks like the re-sculpted metal Atlas to me, but I could be wrong.

The re-sculpt is very poseable and lends itself well to dynamic modeling. Downside is it comes in a bunch of pieces.

These are all the same model posed in various ways.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Why does the thought of a Battletech Blood Bowl team suddenly spring to mind?

Thanks DarkTraveler for the clarification. With a decent paint scheme It looks pretty darn good. I may pick one up.

Also, nice one Infinite_array, I almost sprayed coffee on my computer at your comment! Battletech Bowl!

So, assuming the new "edition" is not a polar-shift, how difficult should I expect learning Battletech to be?

Everyone on the outside just hears how famously crunchy it is, but man... the idea of building my own mechs and stuff seems amazing (and I bet is conducive to campaign play).

I don't mean Alpha Strike, rather proper, complicated... a couple models-per-player Battletech.

How long do individual games tend to be?

Have you looked at the BattleTech Quick Start Rules? That should give you an idea of how the game plays.

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you looked at the BattleTech Quick Start Rules? That should give you an idea of how the game plays.

I have. Am I right in thinking that Alpha-Strike is played like a conventional table-top game, whereas Battletech proper always prefers the Hex-board? Is there a way to get all of the crunch, with the freedom of a table-top experience?

The old Rules Compendium had tabletop-from-hex rules, and I THINK, think, that the new core stuff does as well, that said, they were pretty basic: 1 hex=1", hex bases to measure hex turns, or 60 degree marks. Can't remember if height/terrain was TLOS or had fixed sizes, probably something like 1"=1 level. Basic level isn't that hard, its just very tableriffic and slow until you've got the tables memorized through repeated use (and even then tends towards the slow side.)

Edit: game length. probably a couple hours for a 1-2 mech per person duel, 3-4 IIRC for lance-on-lance. Had an RPG group for the MWRPG for a while, and combat ate up most of a session in sessions it happened in. Granted, that was with a certain amount of faffing about, and people still learning the game to an extent,

Edit to the edit: Also try looking up Megamek--its basically a program to play the hex version on line, though there's no matchmaking, pure IP/server connections.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you looked at the BattleTech Quick Start Rules? That should give you an idea of how the game plays.

I have. Am I right in thinking that Alpha-Strike is played like a conventional table-top game, whereas Battletech proper always prefers the Hex-board? Is there a way to get all of the crunch, with the freedom of a table-top experience?

BattleTech is a board game, with the a lot of the players using miniatures in place of the card tokens. Alpha Strike is the expanded version of the miniatures rules that were always just sort of tacked on to the BattleTech rules.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, assuming the new "edition" is not a polar-shift, how difficult should I expect learning Battletech to be?

Everyone on the outside just hears how famously crunchy it is, but man... the idea of building my own mechs and stuff seems amazing (and I bet is conducive to campaign play).

I don't mean Alpha Strike, rather proper, complicated... a couple models-per-player Battletech.

How long do individual games tend to be?

Battletech isn't just conductive to campaign play, it's almost EXPECTED.

Getting into it well.. the basic core rules I think are simple, but you do have a fair number of charts, but once you have those down (and it's all fairly simple numbers) you'll be ok, there's a LOT of room for added complexity with optional rules and the like, tanks and infantry, artillery etc. that said if you're one of those people who considers 40k too complex... Battletech won't be to your liking AT ALL. (40k, even 7th edition at it's bloatiest wasn't that complex compared to Battletech with all the bells and whistle optional rules) the game might seem intimidating but it's suprisingly elegant. having not changed much in 30 odd years. you could pick up battletech third edition used and pretty much play the same game as the latest rules. (IIRC the only thing that changed where partial cover)

building your own mechs is great fun but a LOT of math if you do it manually, luckly there are mech design software out there that does it for you. The most up to date one last I checked was Solaris Skunk Works.

There's also a digital option for battletech called MegaMek that is worth checking into.

I love math, and I love crunchy, complex, minutia. :-) It sounds like it won't be a problem... but I do need to get the wife and/or some friends interested.

Any fun ways to bling out the board? I'm guessing a lot of folks play it on say, Heroscape tiles?

 infinite_array wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Why does the thought of a Battletech Blood Bowl team suddenly spring to mind?

I got Atlas Hamlet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I love math, and I love crunchy, complex, minutia. :-) It sounds like it won't be a problem... but I do need to get the wife and/or some friends interested.

Any fun ways to bling out the board? I'm guessing a lot of folks play it on say, Heroscape tiles?

My FLGS uses heroscape for many of their games. Seems to have worked well.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I love math, and I love crunchy, complex, minutia. :-) It sounds like it won't be a problem... but I do need to get the wife and/or some friends interested.

Any fun ways to bling out the board? I'm guessing a lot of folks play it on say, Heroscape tiles?

Most people play it on mapsheets. There are conversion rules to make it a full scale mini game, but yeah, I've never played that way

Why can't they sell these. In this day and age where GW gets $167 US for a mass produced acceptable Knight Titan, and $240 for a nicer FW kit. You would think Catalyst would recognize there is a market for these and sell them.

I'd put a 9" tall Battlemaster on my mantle.

I wouldn't. I'd play it and the others on the tabletop alongside some 25mm figures.

They have trouble producing enough core sets, I don’t think toddler-sized models should be high on their priority list.

Leave that to CMON...

I think they could farm it out to parties who have experience with Resin models.

So there are new boxed sets already showing up on eBay.

So that's nice.

 infinite_array wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Why does the thought of a Battletech Blood Bowl team suddenly spring to mind?

This needs to be brought to Solaris VII arenas!

And yeah, I'd totally buy a 9" Warhammer & Battlemaster!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So there are new boxed sets already showing up on eBay.

So that's nice.

the real irriating thing with their pre-release at gencon is when they put out story supplements, half the time they don't put even the PDFs up until after gencon so all us "non con plebs" got spoiled.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So there are new boxed sets already showing up on eBay.

So that's nice.

Saw someone say that they were trying to sell it for $500 or more.

 Mattlov wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So there are new boxed sets already showing up on eBay.

So that's nice.

Saw someone say that they were trying to sell it for $500 or more.

I bet there are people willing to pay that, the Battletech fanbase is smallish but it's got some pretty hard core fanatics.

 Mattlov wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So there are new boxed sets already showing up on eBay.

So that's nice.

Saw someone say that they were trying to sell it for $500 or more.

This is Mad Dok Grotsnik's fault. Somehow.

I want that Union Dropship. My wife will kill me afterwards but I want at least 3 dropships to carry my old merc batallion.

M.

She should not get that mad... It's fairly cheap.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4025

 Nicorex wrote:
She should not get that mad... It's fairly cheap.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4025

Just for clarification that drop ship is not the same type seen at Gen Con. The one linked from IWM is a much smaller model (about 4"-6" tall) and is a "Map Scale" model versus a "Mech Scale" model.

The difference is Map Scale conforms to the map sheets with each hex measuring 30 meters across. A Dropship's foot print is about 4 hexes and the Map Scale drop ship matches that foot print.

A Mech Scale model would be in scale with the actual Battlemech models and is the type seen in the Gen Con diorama. That was custom printed.

IIRC, going back to 3rd and 4th edition, the wargames rules conversions basically made 1MP = 3" of movement and fudged a few other things to get all the MP ratings to match up, and changed the cover rules (in the basic rules, a 'Mech is 2 levels tall; a 'Mech behind 1-level-tall cover has a to-hit penalty when firing at it, but if you do hit, you roll on a reduced hit chart that only included the locations on the top half of the 'Mech (and made it much more likely to shoot it in the head if you did hit). In the miniatures rules, you just used the standard firing rules with no to-hit penalties, but if you roll a hit location that's obscured by cover, then you miss.

I always just used to play using 1 MP = 1" move. It made the movement rules conversion much simpler, and meant you didn't need as much space. I also made some 3D add-ons for the map sheets in the starter box to make it 3D, just for the visual appeal.

I have seen some stunning 3D custom tables for BattleTech. One used dots of flock to delineate the hexes without having to draw an obvious grid over it, and one stunning one that was a coastline area, with buildings, beaches, cliffs and sea stacks. Can't find them now. :(

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
IIRC, going back to 3rd and 4th edition, the wargames rules conversions basically made 1MP = 3" of movement and fudged a few other things to get all the MP ratings to match up, and changed the cover rules (in the basic rules, a 'Mech is 2 levels tall; a 'Mech behind 1-level-tall cover has a to-hit penalty when firing at it, but if you do hit, you roll on a reduced hit chart that only included the locations on the top half of the 'Mech (and made it much more likely to shoot it in the head if you did hit). In the miniatures rules, you just used the standard firing rules with no to-hit penalties, but if you roll a hit location that's obscured by cover, then you miss.

That's thankfully no longer true, one of the few rules changes Catalyst made when the Total Warfare rulebook came out in 2007ish was they reduced the partial cover mod from -3 to -1, but you don't roll on the punch table anymore, instead you roll on the normal hit location and if you get an obscured result then it hits the intervening terrain instead of the mech. It's more like the miniature rules now, and is a tremendous improvement over the original rule, where hiding behind a hill was actually riskier than standing out in the open

Not technically a Battletech question but rather about another line from the same company/booth...Shadowrun. If anyone knows of news for the Shadowrun rpg, feel free to pm me with the info and/or links so as not to derail the thread.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you looked at the BattleTech Quick Start Rules? That should give you an idea of how the game plays.

I have. Am I right in thinking that Alpha-Strike is played like a conventional table-top game, whereas Battletech proper always prefers the Hex-board? Is there a way to get all of the crunch, with the freedom of a table-top experience?

You can play either way. After the third or fourth iteration, we were playing Hex optional printed on the board, because of people using scale scenery, and home made terraign, but the hex system were still in play as far as your movements/ shooting, and measuring.(If that makes sense...) Basically, the cardstock maps were interchangeable with home made terrain board, you just had to measure using the hex system.

 Nicorex wrote:
She should not get that mad... It's fairly cheap.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4025

What DarkTraveller said. The IWM is the small one you can store anywhere, but I want the mech scale ones that it's like ten times the size

I think there was a limited Union or Leopard mech scale run some years back. Resin with metal legs.

M.

Both Alpha Strike and normal Battletech have both hex rules and freeform movement rules. You can go either way with either.

About Alpha Strike. The current edition rulebook is oop, there's a mythical intro box set that may or may not be a fever dream. And a selection of rapidly disappearing lance packs.

Any.one know any decently solid rumor or info on the state of the game? I can get pdf files of the book but I'd rather not.

Krugerannd wrote:
About Alpha Strike. The current edition rulebook is oop, there's a mythical intro box set that may or may not be a fever dream. And a selection of rapidly disappearing lance packs.

Any.one know any decently solid rumor or info on the state of the game? I can get pdf files of the book but I'd rather not.

While the paper version is out of print I believe, you can still get the PDF for $15. Question is how long it will be invalidated. I thought I read on the BattleTech forums that there will be a newer version. Thing is that was over a year ago so who knows when and if it will come out. Just like we were waiting for this boxset to come out. We thought it would have been two years ago.

So it's take a chance, buy the PDF and have the new version come out some time this year or next maybe.

Davor wrote:

Krugerannd wrote:
About Alpha Strike. The current edition rulebook is oop, there's a mythical intro box set that may or may not be a fever dream. And a selection of rapidly disappearing lance packs.

Any.one know any decently solid rumor or info on the state of the game? I can get pdf files of the book but I'd rather not.

While the paper version is out of print I believe, you can still get the PDF for $15. Question is how long it will be invalidated. I thought I read on the BattleTech forums that there will be a newer version. Thing is that was over a year ago so who knows when and if it will come out. Just like we were waiting for this boxset to come out. We thought it would have been two years ago.

So it's take a chance, buy the PDF and have the new version come out some time this year or next maybe.

One thing worth noting about Battletech is that the rules sets move VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY slowly, battletech hasn't changed substantially since 2nd edition.

Well they have a "Mech Scale" Leopard.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6904

If you want a large scale dropship the mechwarrior game had an aurora dropship with opening door and weapons they pop up on ebay every so often

Unboxing video from Camo Specs Online:

Nicorex wrote:Well they have a "Mech Scale" Leopard.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6904

I forgot another reason why I stopped collecting BattleTech. Man that website is horrible. Ironwindmetals really need a better website.

Ironwind Metals could also do with...good miniatures.

... paper maps. Well, that's a step backwards.

He did mention that the maps were not included in the GenCon box set and instead handed out later when you purchased them, so maybe they still will be the thicker cardboard like the older starters. I'm rather ambivalent towards the thicker cardboard maps just because I've been playing for a long time and own many of the older poster map sets FanPro put out, they really don't work with the cardboard maps. Thick cardboard or not, that starter looks great and I kinda wish I had my GenCon buddy grab one

I really hope those were either prototype mech models or ones that were left in the sun too long.... they seemed to have no detail to them .. just basic mech shapes .... really poor looking IMO

So apparently the new timeline book shattered fortress came out today,

Wasn't "Total Warfare" their newest release, via Gencon? Catalysts release schedule confuses me to no end. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Wasn't "Total Warfare" their newest release, via Gencon? Catalysts release schedule confuses me to no end. :-p

Total warfare was their core book, I THIIINK they've reprinted it, but this is a new book, it's a pure story book mind you little if any hard core rules, but Btech fans eat that stuff up.

at least some of em do, although they need to stop catering to the people who still want the fedsuns to pay karmicly for the 4th sucession war. if your game is healthy you shouldn't be catering to people still angry about something that happned 30 years ago real time

 ah64pilot5 wrote:
I really hope those were either prototype mech models or ones that were left in the sun too long.... they seemed to have no detail to them .. just basic mech shapes .... really poor looking IMO

There's detail on the minis, you can see brief flashes of it when he turns them. He just has really gakky lighting combined with a really gakky camera.

Davor wrote:

Nicorex wrote:Well they have a "Mech Scale" Leopard.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6904

I forgot another reason why I stopped collecting BattleTech. Man that website is horrible. Ironwindmetals really need a better website.

You are very easily deterred.

 Albertorius wrote:
... paper maps. Well, that's a step backwards.

Not really. Releasing a product that is 100% compatible with all the other map sheets is a much better idea than releasing it in a new medium that isn't.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Wasn't "Total Warfare" their newest release, via Gencon? Catalysts release schedule confuses me to no end. :-p

Total Warfare was released 12 years ago.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Davor wrote:

Nicorex wrote:Well they have a "Mech Scale" Leopard.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6904

I forgot another reason why I stopped collecting BattleTech. Man that website is horrible. Ironwindmetals really need a better website.

You are very easily deterred.

 Albertorius wrote:
... paper maps. Well, that's a step backwards.

Not really. Releasing a product that is 100% compatible with all the other map sheets is a much better idea than releasing it in a new medium that isn't.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Wasn't "Total Warfare" their newest release, via Gencon? Catalysts release schedule confuses me to no end. :-p

Total Warfare was released 12 years ago.

was it that long ago? christ I feel old

They announced a few weeks ago that the core rulebooks were being reprinted with vintage covers:

https://bg.battletech.com/news/announcing-core-rulebook-reprints-with-vintage-covers/

the vintage covers are a trick so that you know if it's a reprint or not (as presumably it's updated with errata) and by using vintage art work they can save on having a new art comission, smart move really

Plus it's a good way of getting the core rulebooks of BTech back in print rather than maybe sometimes in print, but mostly found in stores that haven't gone through their old stock and eBay.

Review of the new plastic 'Mechs from Camo Specs Online:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
... paper maps. Well, that's a step backwards.

Not really. Releasing a product that is 100% compatible with all the other map sheets is a much better idea than releasing it in a new medium that isn't.

All the other mapsheets except for everything released during the last two editions of the game, you mean (or rather, from the 2011 Introductory box set onwards).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Davor wrote:

Nicorex wrote:Well they have a "Mech Scale" Leopard.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6904

I forgot another reason why I stopped collecting BattleTech. Man that website is horrible. Ironwindmetals really need a better website.

You are very easily deterred.

Back then it was a bunch of little things that combined made the experiance worse. Plus going through depression didn't help much at all either. Sadly it seemed my depression came back again and that is why I was so negative last week. So just bear with me.

Davor wrote:
Back then it was a bunch of little things that combined made the experiance worse. Plus going through depression didn't help much at all either. Sadly it seemed my depression came back again and that is why I was so negative last week. So just bear with me.

Don't worry, it's not just you. BattleTech has its head so far up its retro ass even its websites feel like 1993. Oooh, vintage!

Let's put on our big boy pants and soldier on though because these new boxed sets are looking really really good

Davor wrote:

Krugerannd wrote:
About Alpha Strike. The current edition rulebook is oop, there's a mythical intro box set that may or may not be a fever dream. And a selection of rapidly disappearing lance packs.

Any.one know any decently solid rumor or info on the state of the game? I can get pdf files of the book but I'd rather not.

While the paper version is out of print I believe, you can still get the PDF for $15. Question is how long it will be invalidated. I thought I read on the BattleTech forums that there will be a newer version. Thing is that was over a year ago so who knows when and if it will come out. Just like we were waiting for this boxset to come out. We thought it would have been two years ago.

So it's take a chance, buy the PDF and have the new version come out some time this year or next maybe.

As posted in this thread, Catalyst announced the new edition of Alpha Strike a little while back, which is basically second edition of Alpha Strike for it's 5th anniversary. It replaces the original books, includes revisions and all errata. It is previewed on their Upcoming Releases section.

Really hoping they start being available via Element Games

judgedoug wrote:

Davor wrote:

Krugerannd wrote:
About Alpha Strike. The current edition rulebook is oop, there's a mythical intro box set that may or may not be a fever dream. And a selection of rapidly disappearing lance packs.

Any.one know any decently solid rumor or info on the state of the game? I can get pdf files of the book but I'd rather not.

While the paper version is out of print I believe, you can still get the PDF for $15. Question is how long it will be invalidated. I thought I read on the BattleTech forums that there will be a newer version. Thing is that was over a year ago so who knows when and if it will come out. Just like we were waiting for this boxset to come out. We thought it would have been two years ago.

So it's take a chance, buy the PDF and have the new version come out some time this year or next maybe.

As posted in this thread, Catalyst announced the new edition of Alpha Strike a little while back, which is basically second edition of Alpha Strike for it's 5th anniversary. It replaces the original books, includes revisions and all errata. It is previewed on their Upcoming Releases section.

Oh I missed that or memory is relapsing on me. Thank you for this.

It's important to note that this game is SOLID, with rules sets that stand the test of time, and the mechs are very inexpensive to get a couple of lances and go to town with. BattleTech is easily one of the best mech combat games out there.

 Grot 6 wrote:
It's important to note that this game is SOLID, with rules sets that stand the test of time, and the mechs are very inexpensive to get a couple of lances and go to town with. BattleTech is easily one of the best mech combat games out there.

I'll second this, the ruleset is solid for what it is, that said don't expect to play out large multi regiment vs multi regiment battles like in the novels with the Btech ruleset, it's a skirmish game.

I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

agreed. it's definatly got it's advantages.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

That's very Mechanicum of you!

 warboss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

That's very Mechanicum of you!

having a black and white yes or no answer in a game is handy, you hear a LOT less stories about "that guys" in Battletech

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

I dug one of my maps yesterday and got a copy so I can cut out the terrain elements, glue them on some foamboard,and use the to change the classic maps a bit while giving a bit of 3D to the map.
M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of my greatest loves in BTech is the hex map.

What? Why?

Well, not just because I love map sheets and tiles, but because it's so defined, so binary, so digital. Are you in range? Yes or no. Are you in LOS? Yes or no. There are no maybe's in this game, unlike games where you have to use TLOS to check, or use a tape measure to check. Everything either is, or isn't. There's no middle ground.

So very much this. There are no varying interpretations on the hexmap. It's so refreshing compared with regular minis...

Some people have made great 3D maps out of foam that are all in hexes.

*edit*

Can't copy a pic but here is a link. Awesome stuff. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=12806.0

I have a lot of old Heroscape terrain that could be repurposed really well.

I'll definitely be using the Heroscape tiles at some point. I think it just makes for a great visual.

So, a Gencon friend picked me up the new Total Warfare book (with retro-cover so its the "new" edition), and while I don't have it in hand yet, I noticed the product description goes out of its way to say it is an "advanced rulebook" and should not be used by starting players.

Ok... fine... so is there already a similar "new" edition of the full core rules, or is that literally a captive of the new starter box, until it reaches a wider release?

Yes.

Total Warfare is an advanced rulebook because it contains the rules for 'Mechs, vehicles (hover, tracked, whelled, VToL WiGE), infantry, power armour, ProtoMechs and a few other things.

The BattleMech Manual is just the rules for using 'Mechs. The rules in the starterbox are just that, less all the additional weapons/equipment/optional rules.

As a child of the 80s, who hasn't bothered to pick up any of the minis since the 90s, I'm looking forward to this.

I think I saw it mentioned earlier ITT that the "older" Alpha Strike Lance boxes will still be usable, is that correct?

 ancientsociety wrote:
the "older" Alpha Strike Lance boxes will still be usable, is that correct?

Yep! You are good.

Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

A better comparison will be to check 5 years from now. When AT will be playing AT 3rd edition with their new $75 rule books and all new extra shiny $160 titans which just happen to be better than your old busted 5yo $100 Titans.

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

Knowing Catalyst, it will have sold really well and stores will just be running out of stock, marking the start of a three year period where it will be out of print. Being out of print will have no real effect on the popularity of the game.

AT will make a gazillion times more (while selling fewer copies no doubt) and the popularity will just be tailing off as people scan the pages of White Dwarf in the hope of seeing something new.

The real test will be in 12 - 18 months when the popularity of AT (measured in sales and people playing) drops below Battletech (It is hard to overlook the fact that if you pick up the new BT set today, there are hundreds of plastic and metal mechs you can buy right now if you enjoy the experience). Then we will all be facepalming at how Catalyst has somehow failed - again - to capitalise on an IP that is far more popular than it has any right to be.. and we will keep on playing Battletech regardless

 Siygess wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

Knowing Catalyst, it will have sold really well and stores will just be running out of stock, marking the start of a three year period where it will be out of print. Being out of print will have no real effect on the popularity of the game.

AT will make a gazillion times more (while selling fewer copies no doubt) and the popularity will just be tailing off as people scan the pages of White Dwarf in the hope of seeing something new.

The real test will be in 12 - 18 months when the popularity of AT (measured in sales and people playing) drops below Battletech (It is hard to overlook the fact that if you pick up the new BT set today, there are hundreds of plastic and metal mechs you can buy right now if you enjoy the experience). Then we will all be facepalming at how Catalyst has somehow failed - again - to capitalise on an IP that is far more popular than it has any right to be.. and we will keep on playing Battletech regardless

Siygess Battletechs!

Maybe added clan stuff and the added rewrites of the old stuff that came out 3d and 4th edition.

Trust me, BT has been around for years, it isn't going anywhere. Compared to 40K/ GW, who sees it fit to continue to reinvent the wheel every year or so.

Siygess has the right of it. Battletech has a remarkable ability to succeed in spite of itself. I love that you can find variants to run a Stinger, a mech that measures its combat life in seconds, from the Star league on through the Clan Invasion and into the Dark Ages.

Everything is backwards compatible- it just may be a few hundred years out of date.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Maybe added clan stuff and the added rewrites of the old stuff that came out 3d and 4th edition.

Trust me, BT has been around for years, it isn't going anywhere. Compared to 40K/ GW, who sees it fit to continue to reinvent the wheel every year or so.

it's hard to comapre the two things, for one thing Battletech despite having minis isn't really a miniature game. when a new TRO comes out they don;'t worry about having all the minis. it's not important. that said Battletech rather then reinvent the rules has a always expanding fluff situation, which can be hard to keep up with


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Siygess has the right of it. Battletech has a remarkable ability to succeed in spite of itself. I love that you can find variants to run a Stinger, a mech that measures its combat life in seconds, from the Star league on through the Clan Invasion and into the Dark Ages.

Everything is backwards compatible- it just may be a few hundred years out of date.

pfft the stinger's a perfectly fine and survivable mech. So long as you don't rush an assault lance with it

I love the Stinger! When I drag my kids and wife to the table to play BT, I give them all the cool mechs while I run recon in my unseen (except by the enemy) STG-3R.

So question. If you were doing alpha strike company on company+ action (I'm thinking about doing a merc campaign) would a 4'x4' field be big enough?

Krugerannd wrote:
So question. If you were doing alpha strike company on company+ action (I'm thinking about doing a merc campaign) would a 4'x4' field be big enough?

4'x4' should work. When my old group would run games that large we'd usually lay down 4-6 map sheets in either a 2x2 pattern or a 3x2 pattern.

A map sheet is 22" long and 18" wide, so going with the 2x2 layout you'd be looking at 44"x 36" which isn't too far off from 48"x 48".

As long as you aren't playing on open terrain that should be a pretty big battlefield for your companies to maneuver around.

This was pre-Alpha Strike, so those games would take an entire weekend. It was a lot of fun!

Justyn wrote:
A better comparison will be to check 5 years from now. When AT will be playing AT 3rd edition with their new $75 rule books and all new extra shiny $160 titans which just happen to be better than your old busted 5yo $100 Titans.

Huh, my Adeptus Titanicus Warlord titans have been usable for 30 years so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

What do you mean by "holds up"? With Adeptus Titanicus 2 have been designed by James Hewitt, I have no doubt in my mind that it'll be fun forever.

Krugerannd wrote:
So question. If you were doing alpha strike company on company+ action (I'm thinking about doing a merc campaign) would a 4'x4' field be big enough?

It's small. With long range reaching out to 42 inches, you will have 1st turn firing and little area to maneuver out of range. It could work, but you'll probably have casualties a lot sooner than a 6x4 table. If you enjoy the mobility game and strike and fade, 4x4 will definitely not be enough unless you use a lot of terrain.

 Mattlov wrote:

Krugerannd wrote:
So question. If you were doing alpha strike company on company+ action (I'm thinking about doing a merc campaign) would a 4'x4' field be big enough?

It's small. With long range reaching out to 42 inches, you will have 1st turn firing and little area to maneuver out of range. It could work, but you'll probably have casualties a lot sooner than a 6x4 table. If you enjoy the mobility game and strike and fade, 4x4 will definitely not be enough unless you use a lot of terrain.

Does terrain work the same in Alpha Strike as it does in regular Battletech? Is LoS blocked by 3 intervening patches of woods, for example? And buildings/mountains over 2 levels block LoS?

If so, then honestly, unless the 4x4 table is all flat, open fields then even a moderate amount of terrain will create enough dead zones for maneuvering.

Plus, long range shots, target movement modifiers and any terrain modifiers will make the initial salvos unlikely to hit unless there are a number of elite pilots on the field. And if there are elite pilots that is going to be a shorter game anyway.

The negative flip side to a larger table space is if the forces are too slow to engage one another in a timely manner. That gets boring pretty quickly.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Mattlov wrote:

Krugerannd wrote:
So question. If you were doing alpha strike company on company+ action (I'm thinking about doing a merc campaign) would a 4'x4' field be big enough?

It's small. With long range reaching out to 42 inches, you will have 1st turn firing and little area to maneuver out of range. It could work, but you'll probably have casualties a lot sooner than a 6x4 table. If you enjoy the mobility game and strike and fade, 4x4 will definitely not be enough unless you use a lot of terrain.

Does terrain work the same in Alpha Strike as it does in regular Battletech? Is LoS blocked by 3 intervening patches of woods, for example? And buildings/mountains over 2 levels block LoS?

If so, then honestly, unless the 4x4 table is all flat, open fields then even a moderate amount of terrain will create enough dead zones for maneuvering.

Plus, long range shots, target movement modifiers and any terrain modifiers will make the initial salvos unlikely to hit unless there are a number of elite pilots on the field. And if there are elite pilots that is going to be a shorter game anyway.

The negative flip side to a larger table space is if the forces are too slow to engage one another in a timely manner. That gets boring pretty quickly.

From page 14 of the Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules:

Line of sight (LOS) in Alpha Strike is determined by what a unit can “see” from its vantage point on the table. Units can usually be sighted by simply going to the eye level of the attacking unit and looking at the target miniature.

That's just the basics for line of sight. There are further rules and exceptions in the Quick Start rules.

Thanks, Ghaz.

Looks like 6" of woods block LoS in Alpha Strike. It would not be difficult to fill a 4'x4' with plenty of LoS blocking terrain to force maneuvering.

Waiting to pick up the "rest" of the core books until I can get a full set of the retro-covered, most-recent errata ones... But I did buy a mess of Heroscape hexes to supplement my own collection. I'm hoping I have enough to replicate a full-sized map now, with a little more aesthetic presence than a paper mat.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

What do you mean by "holds up"? With Adeptus Titanicus 2 have been designed by James Hewitt, I have no doubt in my mind that it'll be fun forever.

Sales & support, I guess. I too have my old AT mechs, but I hadn’t seen new models or rules from GW since the 90’s - nor played a game since that time.

 Stormonu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny, looks like Adeptus Titanicus and the new Battletech boxed set will be hitting the streets about the same time.

Curious to see how each holds up after about 6 months to a year being available.

What do you mean by "holds up"? With Adeptus Titanicus 2 have been designed by James Hewitt, I have no doubt in my mind that it'll be fun forever.

Sales & support, I guess. I too have my old AT mechs, but I hadn’t seen new models or rules from GW since the 90’s - nor played a game since that time.

well in that case it's hard to say, sure AT could die by then, but so could Battletech TBH, CGL is a pretty small company, if they ran into finanical issues and went under, Btech could die pretty fast if no one else wants to pick up the lisence from Topps.
seems like it's not worth worrying about honestly, plenty of games out last their "demise" now from a "finding people to play with" prespective, that's a differant story, GW has a MUCH higher profile, so people know more about it etc. finding GW gamers in a gaming community is usally pretty easy, whereas Battletech well... a lotta people think it died with FASA, and due to their issues keeping a boxed starter on the shelves it's hard to just pick up at a hobby shop. but does have a cheaper buy in, so I suspect it'll vary from location to location

LoL, Battletech can't be killed. Strike it down, and it will spring up again in some other form.

You would be hard pressed to find any gaming intellectual property which has such enduring popularity and somehow persistently fails to capitalize on that popularity- yet still succeeds.

It's the Arizona Tea of wargames. They never change their formula, they never advertise, but they're always there, and they always deliver exactly what you expect. Sure, it's unlikely there's a weekly game at your FLGS, but bust out a lance and play an evening- and within a week almost everyone involved is dusting off their old miniatures, or ordering minis or sourcebooks.

In a way it's lack of regular releases is it's biggest strength,

those who play are committed, where it is played community is strong and will go out of their way to get together and play, chat etc

if there were regular releases the player base would be different and prone to evaporation as soon as the releases stopped (although the hard core would eventually come together again)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
In a way it's lack of regular releases is it's biggest strength,

those who play are committed, where it is played community is strong and will go out of their way to get together and play, chat etc

if there were regular releases the player base would be different and prone to evaporation as soon as the releases stopped (although the hard core would eventually come together again)

pretty much this, you need to keep in mind Battletech survived the death of the original company that made it, it's a survivor.

It's kinda like the cockroach of gaming, it may come off as kinda "ugly and primitive" to some but it's a proven survivor. Battletech was around before a lotta the big games today (even 40k is younger, coming out first in
87 to Battledroids '84) and chances are good it'll survive a lot of them.

 Ghaz wrote:
Review of the new plastic 'Mechs from Camo Specs Online:

After seeing this,,, I am happy with the minis... wish they were sprues and multi pose, but if they can keep the rest of the line to this quality.. I think its going to work

 ah64pilot5 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Review of the new plastic 'Mechs from Camo Specs Online:

After seeing this,,, I am happy with the minis... wish they were sprues and multi pose, but if they can keep the rest of the line to this quality.. I think its going to work

Rest of the line? I thought it was only going to be these minis not any more. Did I miss or forget something?

Davor wrote:

 ah64pilot5 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Review of the new plastic 'Mechs from Camo Specs Online:

After seeing this,,, I am happy with the minis... wish they were sprues and multi pose, but if they can keep the rest of the line to this quality.. I think its going to work

Rest of the line? I thought it was only going to be these minis not any more. Did I miss or forget something?

Notes from Gencon suggest there is a gentleman's agreement with IWM that allows CGL to have a shot at producing the 'prime' or core variant of each mech in plastic. So you'll get a 6R Warhammer, but any variants will be produced by Iron Wind.

I can live with that.

Oh, well that is interesting!

So, are there going to be more plastic lance boxes? Was there any word on how CGL will get the plastics in circulation? I've missed most of what news came out of GenCon.