The Trandoshans in The Clone Wars (with the exception of the junk hauler/smuggler guy) had the Bossk look. The ones in the Republic Commando game were weird lizard abominations.
When something has previously been portrayed a certain way, and then is suddenly portrayed in a different way, then yes, it tends to be jarring unless some explanation is provided for the change.
We can't really see the faces in that pic (I suspect this is intentional), but if we assume that they're reptilian-looking (eyes being added by CGI in post?), the biggest 'something' will be forearm length. Because otherwise they're scaly, skull-crested and barefoot, with a skin hue that I *think* has been seen before.
So it's interesting to me that some people may not be able to reconcile that one aspect without assistance. Especially given that the Trandosians are a small area of the IP that haven't been explored in great depth.
We can see the profile, and hitherto Trandoshans have possessed a snout. These do not appear to have snouts.
Skin tone, physical size, even proportion, and many other things can be explained, in fact don't need to be explained, by ethnicity, gender or general genetic variance.
Lacking a physical feature that on real world Earth would get them categorised as a different species either needs addressing or means they're not Trandoshans.
Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.
Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.
LordofHats wrote: Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.
Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.
"A rose by any other name" works in reverse. You can't make something that looks different from how it's supposed to, call it a name and then have people not scratch their heads collectively and say "but that's not what they look like."
LordofHats wrote: Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.
Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.
It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?
Updating a look with modern techniques is fine. Doctor Who has done a pretty good job of this over the years, updating old designs while staying true to the original, or changing things in a way that makes sense in the setting. Star Trek has generally done a worse job of it, with changes for the sake of change that have tended to go over badly with fans. A good redesign should keep the visual cues from the original, because those visual cues are how we recognise what they are supposed to be.
When an alien species gets a comprehensive redesign for no discernible purpose (and it's not just the forearms - as others have pointed out, the faces and the feet also look completely wrong) it's immersion-breaking. You may not find that a problem, and if so that's good for you. And at the end of the day, it's (for me, at least) far less of a concern than whether or not the story is good. It's certainly not as large an issue as, say, Yoda apparently being a completely different species in Episode 1, since he was actually an important part of the story rather than what has been until now just a background alien species. But it is irritating when things like this are inexplicably changed, because it doesn't look 'right'.
It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?
I think there's a very wide void between "right" and "exactly the same," the latter of which seems to be the only thing anyone cares about. I looked at that screenshot and immediately though Trandoshian (if only because, unless they're a completely new race Trandoshian is the only thing they can be). I'm not going to quibble over tiny insignificant details of a cheap costume from forever ago like how pronounced the nose bridge is or the feet not being giant rubber booties.
About as petty as all the butt hurt about the Klingon redesign from ItD. That was a decent enough redesign. The Klingon's were still discernably Klingon, even though they looked quite different. If we're talking about STD style "and now they look completely different" then there might be a point, but claiming this redesign (if it is a redesign) is some unconnectable departure from the only Trandoshian to have ever been on screen is just petty. It's not that different. You could write off the distinctions as "we lost the rubber suit and didn't feel like making more of them" or "these are Southern Trandoshians and they look different" but is that really the content we want to waste storytelling time on? Just call them Space Lizards and lets get on with things that matter.
There's obviously a degree of subjectivity here, but I struggle to see this as anymore more than fandom at its obsessive pettiest.
It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?
I think there's a very wide void between "right" and "exactly the same," the latter of which seems to be the only thing anyone cares about.
I think you'll find if they looked right, nobody would care if they weren't exactly the same. The issue here is wrong Trandoshans.
I looked at that screenshot and immediately though Trandoshian (if only because, unless they're a completely new race Trandoshian is the only thing they can be). I'm not going to quibble over tiny insignificant details of a cheap costume from forever ago like how pronounced the nose bridge is or the feet not being giant rubber booties.
Firstly, there's no 'I' in Trandoshan. But then, if you looked at that image, knowing it was from a Star Wars product, and thought "those must be Trandoshans" then it isn't surprising you didn't know that. There's at least two alien species from the opening act of ROTJ they could be without anything like as radical a redesign as they'd need to have had to be Trandoshan.
About as petty as all the butt hurt about the Klingon redesign from ItD. That was a decent enough redesign. The Klingon's were still discernably Klingon, even though they looked quite different. If we're talking about STD style "and now they look completely different" then there might be a point, but claiming this redesign (if it is a redesign) is some unconnectable departure from the only Trandoshian to have ever been on screen is just petty. It's not that different. You could write off the distinctions as "we lost the rubber suit and didn't feel like making more of them" or "these are Southern Trandoshians and they look different" but is that really the content we want to waste storytelling time on? Just call them Space Lizards and lets get on with things that matter.
There's obviously a degree of subjectivity here, but I struggle to see this as anymore more than fandom at its obsessive pettiest.
You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, because while they were radically overhauled, they also hit certain defining design cues. These don't.
But perhaps lay off the condescending attitude about fandom, given where you are, why it's here and what you're doing?
Gitzbitah wrote: So- in a triumph of doublethink, fans will be confused because the Mandalorian looks too much like Boba Fett.
They will also be confused because the trandoshans do not look enough like Bossk, the trandoshan.
The thing needs to be more different, while being more the same.
It's like video game sequels. People bitch and moan about getting the exact same skin with new graphics in the same breath they decry the franchise as dead because some mechanic got redesigned or removed.
radical a redesign as they'd need to have had to be Trandoshan.
If it's a redesign there's nothing radical about it. That's subjective, but I don't see the difference other than a few extra decades of better tech making them look less cartoony.
You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, because while they were radically overhauled, they also hit certain defining design cues. These don't.
I don't think you can have defining design ques from the handful of instances (most of which are Bossk who far all we know is some freakishly deformed mutant now) that actually exist.
And I will condescend about fandom when fandom deserves it. Lots of the time, it's a wonderful and fun thing. Then there's that 1% where it just becomes absolutely petty and childish and deserves to be called such.
Gitzbitah wrote: So- in a triumph of doublethink, fans will be confused because the Mandalorian looks too much like Boba Fett.
They will also be confused because the trandoshans do not look enough like Bossk, the trandoshan.
The thing needs to be more different, while being more the same.
I think you might be conflating different arguments from different people, here.
The thing is, details matter. The titular Mandalorian is clearly recognisable as a Mandalorian because he's wearing Mandalorian-styled armour. He's recognisably not Boba Fett, because his armour is different to Boba Fett's, and because he doesn't look anything like the guy that Boba is cloned from.
These lizard guys aren't recognisably Trandoshan. They appear to have scales, and ridges on their heads, but the faces, arms and feet are all different to what we have seen before for Trandoshans. It won't be particularly 'confusing', since they've helpfully told us that they're Trandoshans, but it does leave people wondering why they don't look like Trandoshans.
You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, ...
I would disagree there. One of the things I found the most amusing about Discovery was the fact that the character that looked the most like a Klingon was the Klingon disguised as a human...
insaniak wrote: It won't be particularly 'confusing', since they've helpfully told us that they're Trandoshans, but it does leave people wondering why they don't look like Trandoshans.
I think you overestimate how many people have ever even heard the name before. Asking "what race is Bossk" is more often than not probably going to be answered by "who is Bossk?" It's hard to be confused by something you don't know, and I think you need to be pretty deep into Star Wars to know who Bossk is or that he has a race of others who might look like him. It's getting really fringe even by EU standards.
Seriously Bossk showed up a few times in Clone Wars, but I don't even think they used his name in those episodes. There's a super fat Trandoshan in the series too, but I bet no one knew he was one because when I say super fat, I mean super fat. He looks like a generic fat alien, not Bossk's fat cousin. Cut out a few games and an episode of Rebels, and I can't think of many other appearances they've made outside the comics, and the comics are probably the least well known Star Wars products.
I would disagree there. One of the things I found the most amusing about Discovery was the fact that the character that looked the most like a Klingon was the Klingon disguised as a human...
I wouldn't disagree with the Klingon design of STD. They look completely different and look more like the Na'kuhl (or those guys from Beyond) than Klingons.
I mean the redesign from Into Darkness, which was different but still discernably Klingon, and that was a more radical redesign than what we're talking about here.
I think you overestimate how many people have ever even heard the name before.
I don't think I do. I absolutely agree that the vast majority of people aren't going to have the faintest idea what a Trandoshan is, or whether or not these guys look like one. That's not a reason to not stick to the established look. If the issue was simply that they didn't want to go with something that looked more like a 'traditional' Trandoshan, they could just as easily made them not Trandoshans.
insaniak wrote: That's not a reason to not stick to the established look.
I just don't see these big differences.
I took one look at them and the most significant difference I noticed is that they're red and their heads have a more human shape (still have the head frills and the flared nostrals though). Most Trandoshans I can think of are yellow/green/gray. I think there were some brown ones in Republic Commando? Either way, They're still not wearing shoes or gloves, and apparently, retain their fondness for stick fights in space (though that just might be the one comic I'm thinking of).
If the issue was simply that they didn't want to go with something that looked more like a 'traditional' Trandoshan, they could just as easily made them not Trandoshans.
They could, but farming nostalgia and then getting confused when fans rage about it is basically the Star Wars bread and butter now
Sure, so you said. That doesn't mean they're not there, or that they won't be more obvious to some of us.
I don't think it's a question of obviousness as much as subjective value.
I think this squarely falls into the realm of something only repeat viewers will ever care to notice or think much about, and most of the audience isn't obsessive like that. Kind of really begs the question, "does it matter" to which I feel the answer is a very firm "mostly likely not."
I don't see anyone raging. In the grand scheme of things, it's simply not that big a deal. It's just a weird detail.
I mean in a more general sense. Remake A New Hope? People complain that the film is just a rehash of a New Hope. Put Ackbar in a movie again? People complain that he died too cheaply. I feel like it's become a theme where Disney tries to shoe references into the films (similar to what they do in the MCU), but they either mess it up, misjudge how fans will respond, or fans complain. I think the only one of their movies to really get praise for it's mountain of clever references is Rogue One, and some of those references were so obscure/blink and you'll miss they even flew over dedicated fans' heads. This feels kind of like the same thing. Bossk and Boba had a rivalry in the old EU, so it makes sense we'd see "Not Bossk" in "Not Boba's" TV show. Or maybe someone on the crew just really likes lizardmen *shrug*
I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.
"They tried to appeal to fans, but their execution was bad, and fans reacted badly! Man, those people are just unpleasable, there are no other possible ways to interpret this sequence of events."
Yodhrin wrote: I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.
I think you're misreading my meaning.
Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.
Yodhrin wrote: I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.
I think you're misreading my meaning.
Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.
I can't deny that. I do assert, firmly, that it happens nowhere near as often as the performatively disinterested pretend it does, and is often blown wildly out of proportion when it does.
And while I agree that they've made mistakes, I don't know that it's about "canon" per se, or some particular militant adherence to it among Star Wars fans - afterall, I'd wager the people most likely to be annoyed by stuff like the Not Trandoshans have a pretty high degree of crossover with the people who were big consumers of what was the EU - so much as it is the "How do you do, Fellow Kids" effect. By which I mean, fans are less concerned about not being pandered to, than they are about companies claiming or attempting to pander to them when they're really doing nothing of the kind or just don't care enough to do it properly.
TBH I really am hoping they're either planning to CGI on the "missing" bits, or they're not "proper" Trandoshans(some kind of offshoot or subspecies?), because Filoni & Favreau are supposed to be more in the One Of Us category than the Fellow Kidders, and it'd be a shame either to find out that's just marketing, or for their efforts to have been cut off at the knees for some behind the scenes reason.
Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.
How does your boxing of 'fandoms' work for those of us who are fans of both?
I love the MCU movies. I have zero issues with any of the changes made to characters in translating them from comic to movie screen. The thing is, that's an entirely different issue.
My issue with the Trandoshans looking wrong here is far less akin to, say, MCU Peter Parker being Tony Stark's apprentice as it is to the guy in the Warmachine suit being a different guy from one movie to the next. It doesn't really make a difference to the story, but it's an immersion-breaking detail for those of us for whom those details jump out.
It's not about disliking change. It's about internal consistency. Because internal consistency is what makes a made-up universe 'work'.
Yodhrin wrote: I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.
I think you're misreading my meaning.
Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other,
I don't think either of those is true. i think they just got crappy directors for the new SW trilogy, let them be writers as well, and didn't stomp on them when they were being stupid.
This is a super low effort fail. I mean, just don't call them Trandoshans if you're not willing to use the accurate makeup, no effort required. Giving us something that isn't a Trandoshan and doesn't need to be called a Trandoshan, and then insisting anyway that it is indeed a Trandoshan...why?
PS: How do you pronounce "Trandoshan"? Do you put the emphasis on the first or second syllable? TRAN-do-shan or tran-DO-shan?
PPS: For meme's sake, can someone sharpie some snouts onto those bad boys?
They shoulda just made them into Barabel or something. They don't look that bad to me but their faces are a bit too flat for a Trandoshan if you ask me.
PS: How do you pronounce "Trandoshan"? Do you put the emphasis on the first or second syllable? TRAN-do-shan or tran-DO-shan?
I've always said it like "tran-dough-shen." Actually, has the name ever been said aloud in any official media? It had to be said at least once in Republic Commando but I can't remember how they pronounced it.
PS: How do you pronounce "Trandoshan"? Do you put the emphasis on the first or second syllable? TRAN-do-shan or tran-DO-shan?
I've always said it like "tran-dough-shen." Actually, has the name ever been said aloud in any official media? It had to be said at least once in Republic Commando but I can't remember how they pronounced it.
I'm about 90% sure that it was pronounced the way you just wrote it there. but they didn't emphasize the first and last syllables so it ended up being closer to "tren-dough-shen" rather than "tran-dough-shan"
My only experience with the term was in republic commando which was my first PCFPS and I played it probably 10 times over. Didn't realize Bosk was one of them until this thread.
I looked at the still image and thought "Trandoshan". Until this thread, I'd never noticed that the Bossk suit has long arms to cover up the actor's hands, as I've never really looked at the extras (which is what all those bounty hunters are except Boba Fett) in that scene.
Personally, I've always put the emphasis on the first syllable, although I think I've heard it somewhere official done the other way.
Good trailer. I would have preferred if they kept him as a silent protagonist though for the whole trailer (but definitely not the actual series) instead of the single line at the end. YMMV.
warboss wrote: Good trailer. I would have preferred if they kept him as a silent protagonist though for the whole trailer (but definitely not the actual series) instead of the single line at the end. YMMV.
Thats how memes are born.
Wasn’t planning on getting another streaming service, but this is tempting me.
Well, you better hope it's good and that the shows keep being good, because the chances of the films being turned around has nosedived; Benioff & Weiss are out, citing the time commitment to their Netflix deal(the movie industry equivalent of "spending more time with their family"). While there's still nothing official about it, the fact Captain Subversion hasn't been publicly defenestrated yet while B&W have makes me worry Kennedy actually is intent on doubling down on him.
Man, I really hoped that Feige coming on board meant the current crop of brain-geniuses and their hirelings were getting sidelined.
Honestly I saw some things in that trailer I did not like. Noticeably 1:30 which is the marvel over the top iron man type action stuff that has become more common in recent star wars media. I like the OT for its restraint. A lot of folks would write that up as to them being limited by technology and budget. But for me the more grounded and weighted action feels better.
Also not sure I like how cold, digitial and CGI it feels. I still like some film grain and warm to star wars. A lot of this looks like cosplay or somehow fan made like it's less cinematic and I feel like it has to do with how it was shot with the lighting and sets. The way the outfits look on the characters in front of the backdrops. What it almost reminds me of is the hobbit movies that were at 48 fps.
I feel like they need an auteur and not some marvel hacks to make a star wars film, free of everything else that came before it. Kind of like how star wars knights of the old republic felt like star wars...but felt older somehow, technology wise. It had it's own separate feeling and style. I could see any potential directors being put off by the kind of control disney would have over their creative freedom. I know I wouldn't want to be leered over like that when i'm trying to work.
Thargrim wrote: I feel like they need an auteur and not some marvel hacks...
Marvel hacks?
Hah. And it's a Firestick Peperami-hot take given that the "Marvel hacks" have been broadly producing solid, audience-pleasing fare while the attempt to involve an "auteur" in Star Wars and give them a lot of creative control led to a film that could charitably be described as "divisive".
Everything in the trailer looks pretty damn cool to me. It'll be interesting to see what other characters will feature alongside him. Does the woman end up being a partner in crime? I thought she was cool as her character in Deadpool, and Star Wars armor and a repeating blaster will make that even better.
Yodhrin wrote: Hah. And it's a Firestick Peperami-hot take given that the "Marvel hacks" have been broadly producing solid, audience-pleasing fare while the attempt to involve an "auteur" in Star Wars and give them a lot of creative control led to a film that could charitably be described as "divisive".
I just find the idea that someone could call Taika Waititi, an obscure indie director who has made some very funny and interesting films, and who is both in and directing episodes of The Mandalorian, could ever be described as a 'hack'.
Still looking good, and seems like a SW animation series in spirit just with live action. I suppose we'll all be cashing in our pensions by the time the first season is on DVD...
...speaking of which, I saw the first episode of Resistance and rather enjoyed it, but wondered what the rest of the series was like?
As said before, disappointed the UK has to wait, but in theory that means I may be spared an episodic release, and can just blag a day off to binge the whole thing!
In a profile of the streaming service, The New York Times revealed that a “dramatic Star Wars-universe spoiler” will happen in the series opener:
“The Mandalorian, which contains a dramatic Star Wars-universe spoiler in the first episode and will be available the moment Disney Plus starts, has been as heavily promoted as a traditional feature film, with billboards, 30-second television commercials, radio spots, and digital ads.”
● Maybe that might explain the next news, then: in order to keep “any surprises and plot twists” from being spoiled, advance screeners will not be made available before the series premiere. Translation? Sites like Bleeding Cool won’t be able to give you a “yay” or “nay” about the series until it drops – which we’re guessing is also a pretty good way to avoid any potential pre-premiere critical reviews that could hurt launch day traction.
Asking for a friend…
We also have some new character profile key art for the series:
If memory serves, Jango merely grew up on Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian planet. But he was an orphan or something, and not actually Mandalorian by birth nor blood.
So I am undoubtedly going to like this show as Boba Fett was always my favorite growing up, and this new character is basically Boba2.0.
But the adult in me still can't get past the fact that he's basically Boba2.0. Like, WHY? Why not just make him Boba Fett that survived the Sarlacc? Or make him a different character that ISN'T just a reskinned Fett, even down to the pronged rifle from Boba's debut in the SW Xmas special?
I'm sure they will do a good job with the story, but in the back of my mind, there will always be those questions distracting me for what otherwise could be a cool experience
Galef wrote: So I am undoubtedly going to like this show as Boba Fett was always my favorite growing up, and this new character is basically Boba2.0.
But the adult in me still can't get past the fact that he's basically Boba2.0. Like, WHY?
Why not just make him Boba Fett that survived the Sarlacc?
Or make him a different character that ISN'T just a reskinned Fett, even down to the pronged rifle from Boba's debut in the SW Xmas special?
I'm sure they will do a good job with the story, but in the back of my mind, there will always be those questions distracting me for what otherwise could be a cool experience
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They want to capitalize on the popularity of Fett without having all the baggage of actually using Fett. Wise approach in my opinion, as it does open up their story options while still interesting anyone that was into the original Fett.
ikeulhu wrote: They want to capitalize on the popularity of Fett without having all the baggage of actually using Fett. Wise approach in my opinion, as it does open up their story options while still interesting anyone that was into the original Fett.
I don't disagree, I just don't think Boba Fett has "baggage" that can't really be swept under.
IMO, the only "legit" reason not to have is be Fett is that you'd have to always keep his helmet on and not have him speak much if you can't get the Jango Fett actor involved.
I guess it also opens him up to not be that age, but I can't help but think of this new character as a cheap imitation of Fett, which is sad because he's shaping up to be 10X better than actual Fett
Boba would have been better served by the young Boba series they had been planning anyways, I'm glad this will be a new character. Star Wars is such an expansive universe that it honestly feels weird seeing the same names again and again and again and again. I'm 100% on board with whole new places and whole new names that only have small connections to what we know. I'd rather have easter eggs than giant in-your-face name drops. It was one of the things I enjoyed most about Rogue One, in fact
Agreed. I thought Solo was good solid fun and I enjoyed The Cameo having previously watched TCW and Rebels...but a Disney+ show about Tobias Beckett and his ragtag crew of scoundrels trying to put one over on the big criminal syndicates with little or no involvement of "big names", or something along those lines, would have been even better.
I'm hoping that's basically what we'll get with The Mandalorian, and that they'll keep the Sequel stuff to a minimum - I want loads of petty pseudo-Empires and rogue warlords and crooks and scum, not First Order: The Early Years.
If they just made him Fett post-sarlaac, they would have to weather the constant complaints about why they aren't following all the fluff he had in the EU. It would just be neverending whinging by Fett fans about comparing the Mandalorian to all Fett's EU stuff.
Yodhrin wrote: Agreed. I thought Solo was good solid fun and I enjoyed The Cameo having previously watched TCW and Rebels...but a Disney+ show about Tobias Beckett and his ragtag crew of scoundrels trying to put one over on the big criminal syndicates with little or no involvement of "big names", or something along those lines, would have been even better.
I'm hoping that's basically what we'll get with The Mandalorian, and that they'll keep the Sequel stuff to a minimum - I want loads of petty pseudo-Empires and rogue warlords and crooks and scum, not First Order: The Early Years.
I really hope we get more about Crimson Dawn too.
And whilst I too enjoyed Solo, again in total agreement it could've worked better as a Disney+ series. Whilst I liked what I saw, I felt two hours just wasn't enough to introduce us to a whole new aspect of the Star Wars universe.
Yodhrin wrote: Agreed. I thought Solo was good solid fun and I enjoyed The Cameo having previously watched TCW and Rebels...but a Disney+ show about Tobias Beckett and his ragtag crew of scoundrels trying to put one over on the big criminal syndicates with little or no involvement of "big names", or something along those lines, would have been even better.
I'm hoping that's basically what we'll get with The Mandalorian, and that they'll keep the Sequel stuff to a minimum - I want loads of petty pseudo-Empires and rogue warlords and crooks and scum, not First Order: The Early Years.
I really hope we get more about Crimson Dawn too.
And whilst I too enjoyed Solo, again in total agreement it could've worked better as a Disney+ series. Whilst I liked what I saw, I felt two hours just wasn't enough to introduce us to a whole new aspect of the Star Wars universe.
Initailly, I thought it would be cool to have a non-Saga trilogy of sorts that involved Han and his adventures pre-New Hope and each move had cameos from Boba and/or Obi-wan.
But now I think everything is going to Disney+, I doubt we'll get movie-theatre style movie to continue that story thread
Galef wrote: I don't disagree, I just don't think Boba Fett has "baggage" that can't really be swept under.
IMO, the only "legit" reason not to have is be Fett is that you'd have to always keep his helmet on and not have him speak much if you can't get the Jango Fett actor involved.
I guess it also opens him up to not be that age, but I can't help but think of this new character as a cheap imitation of Fett, which is sad because he's shaping up to be 10X better than actual Fett
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I had some similar feelings myself earlier on, but the more I think about it I am leaning towards the idea that we may be getting the Fett we never knew we wanted instead of the Fett we thought we needed.
Yodhrin wrote: I'm hoping that's basically what we'll get with The Mandalorian, and that they'll keep the Sequel stuff to a minimum - I want loads of petty pseudo-Empires and rogue warlords and crooks and scum, not First Order: The Early Years.
I hope we see something FO related, even if it's minor or just hinted at. Depending on exactly where in the timeline it's set a secretive cabal of Imperial fanatics hiding out in Wild Space could make for a tense two-parter or something.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And whilst I too enjoyed Solo, again in total agreement it could've worked better as a Disney+ series. Whilst I liked what I saw, I felt two hours just wasn't enough to introduce us to a whole new aspect of the Star Wars universe.
I want to live in the universe where Solo somehow ended up being the rocky theatrical pilot to a beloved TV series. We all need more Glover-Lando in our lives.
Galef wrote: I don't disagree, I just don't think Boba Fett has "baggage" that can't really be swept under.
IMO, the only "legit" reason not to have is be Fett is that you'd have to always keep his helmet on and not have him speak much if you can't get the Jango Fett actor involved.
I guess it also opens him up to not be that age, but I can't help but think of this new character as a cheap imitation of Fett, which is sad because he's shaping up to be 10X better than actual Fett
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I had some similar feelings myself earlier on, but the more I think about it I am leaning towards the idea that we may be getting the Fett we never knew we wanted instead of the Fett we thought we needed.
True. And the Mandalorian being so similar to the original concept of Boba Fett shows that they may have "gone back to basics" to build on what made the Fetts so cool in the first place, before they were just "one and done" baddies of the week
Boba Fett has about 6 minutes screen time and only four or five lines in the movies. I'm not surprised they went with a different direction instead of using him and having to explain his 'death' in RotJ. Now they can expand on something bigger than one guy as well as going into how Boba and Jango got Mando armor when they weren't Mandolarians. There are more story possibilities this way.
Yeah, Mandalorians are cool, but Boba just has too much baggage by this point.
I don't know how much the new continuity has expanded on Boba's story outside of the movies and Clone Wars cartoon... but I'd still really like to see them use his actual exploits as a basis to turn him into a colossal fraud. He has this reputation as the galaxy's number one badass, but actually constantly screws up and manages to hang onto his reputation through luck and tenacity.
Meanwhile, using a different Mandalorian for this series' badass lets them actually develop an interesting character without trying to recast a younger version of Tamuera Morrison.
i don't know, I like him as he's actually presented in the original films: he's one of many bounty hunters willing to work for the Empire, and doesn't even really stand out in the line up.
He's just this guy, you know?
That the fanbase went inexplicably nuts about a non-entity and the EU writers wrote masturbatory fanfics about the guy is rather irrelevant.
insaniak wrote: Yeah, Mandalorians are cool, but Boba just has too much baggage by this point.
I don't know how much the new continuity has expanded on Boba's story outside of the movies and Clone Wars cartoon... but I'd still really like to see them use his actual exploits as a basis to turn him into a colossal fraud. He has this reputation as the galaxy's number one badass, but actually constantly screws up and manages to hang onto his reputation through luck and tenacity.
Meanwhile, using a different Mandalorian for this series' badass lets them actually develop an interesting character without trying to recast a younger version of Tamuera Morrison.
Bobba Fett is starwars inspector gadget.
He has a lot of tech that seamingly goes off at random while he bumbles his way into failing upwards and takes credit for how luck and circumstance had things work out for him.
Galef wrote: Initailly, I thought it would be cool to have a non-Saga trilogy of sorts that involved Han and his adventures pre-New Hope and each move had cameos from Boba and/or Obi-wan.
Unfortunately Solo makes that impossible, as all the biggest events in Han's life (meeting Chewie, becoming a smuggler, meeting Lando, doing the Kessel Run and getting the Falcon) all happened over the space of about a week or so, so... what's left to show other than things that we don't know him for?
Galef wrote: Initailly, I thought it would be cool to have a non-Saga trilogy of sorts that involved Han and his adventures pre-New Hope and each move had cameos from Boba and/or Obi-wan.
Unfortunately Solo makes that impossible, as all the biggest events in Han's life (meeting Chewie, becoming a smuggler, meeting Lando, doing the Kessel Run and getting the Falcon) all happened over the space of about a week or so, so... what's left to show other than things that we don't know him for?
His whole adventure with Jabba and Boba Fett could be a story to explore. I mean they based a whole movie around a single line of the original crawl about stealing the DS plans, why not a movie about why Han owes Jabba?
You could even include the Crimson Dawn with more Maul.
But even though I think there is something there to explore and that they tried to set that up in Solo, given Solo's performance and Disney moving so heavy with Disney+, I doubt that will happen now. UNLESS it's done as an exclusive Disney+ release.
H.B.M.C. wrote: what's left to show other than things that we don't know him for?
Off the top of my head:
The job Han bailed on for fear of getting boarded, whatever job Han did for Jabba to make the ruthless Hutt willing to give Han time to pay him back for said botch job (even going so far as to say 'you're the best' in the special edition), Han meeting Boba Fett and establishing whatever their emnity is, the Battle of Tenab...
H.B.M.C. wrote: what's left to show other than things that we don't know him for?
Off the top of my head:
The job Han bailed on for fear of getting boarded, whatever job Han did for Jabba to make the ruthless Hutt willing to give Han time to pay him back for said botch job (even going so far as to say 'you're the best' in the special edition), Han meeting Boba Fett and establishing whatever their emnity is, the Battle of Tenab...
Indeed. There's still ten years between the end of Solo and the start of ANH. Plenty of time for some good, old fashioned smuggling shenanigans.
Asking because that’s the impression I’ve always had, and never thought to Google it.
But yes. Lando series kthxpls.
Not sure, but if memory serves( crikey, over 20 years ago! ) Tenab was just before A New Hope, in the A.C.Cripin trilogy. If Solo gets a 2nd outing then they might cover that.
I was always under the impression it was something Han and Lando were involved in before the OT, apparently in the old EU it happened shortly after the first Death Star blew up and Lando became a minor celebrity for it for a while.
Wookiepedia says it now took place between rescuing Han and the Battle of Endor, but I choose to disagree.
H.B.M.C. wrote: what's left to show other than things that we don't know him for?
Off the top of my head:
The job Han bailed on for fear of getting boarded, whatever job Han did for Jabba to make the ruthless Hutt willing to give Han time to pay him back for said botch job (even going so far as to say 'you're the best' in the special edition), Han meeting Boba Fett and establishing whatever their emnity is, the Battle of Tenab...
There isn't much of a story for the botched job. It came across as a fairly standard run, he got spotted, boarded, and ejected the goods, so he owes Jabba money. You could dress that up and try to make a story out of it, but its really mundane: "Even I get boarded sometimes."
There might be something at the Battle of Tenab, but the context suggests that Lando pulled a flanking trick on Empire fleet elements, or maybe ground elements (but the Rebels trying to pull off ground actions against hordes of stromtroopers seems dumb).
But as to an 'enmity' between Han and Fett, is there one? Vader hired Fett and assorted others to track Han and company, and Fett took him to the sponsor of an existing bounty, Jabba. Done.
The thing with films is, little background details fill out the universe to help it seem more realistic. But filling out every little detail into big stories is really dull. If its something you've seized on, the big version is likely to be less interesting than what you've created in your head.
IIRC, some of the older EU books tried to build on the supposed enmity between Fett and Solo, but then one of the writers (probably Traviss) walked that back in the later stuff when they briefly teamed up, with Fett declaring that it was never personal, Han was 'just a job'.
What the deal is in the new continuity, I have no idea.
It was, IIRC, Dengar who had actual beef with Han. Something about he wore the bandages because of a racing incident on Corellia leaving him disfigured and blaming Han for the crash.
I mean... Fett anticipates Han's 'cut the power and float off with the garbage' plan and beats him at the same game. Also, because hyperspace tracking isn't a thing until the First Order figures it out, he would have had to have seen the Falcon leave, figure out he's running to Lando, and report that back to Vader with enough authority to convince him to park the executor there.
I figure they must have some kind of history, and he'd make a fun guest character.
So I just finished the first episode. Overall I liked it, it felt a bit fast paced (maybe moreso than i'm used to) and maybe a bit shorter than I was expecting. I figured the pilot would run closer to a full hour. It went by pretty quick and now I want to see more.
Yeah, not waiting four months, this isn't the 90's any more.
It was good. I was sold on the Beskar stuff. I was extremely sold on the big action sequence at the end. I am...unconvinced the reveal about the bounty is a good idea, but they've earned enough goodwill with the rest of it that I'll withhold judgement.
The production design is great, the music is interesting definitely aiming for a very "space western" vibe. The ship is cool.
Overall, a good start. So long as they can keep this show in line with the title and not have it devolve into a Sequel-prequel, it should be a solid addition to Star Wars.
A staggered launch, unless impossible due to infrastructure (which seems hard to imagine, given that Kiwiland is getting it before the UK), is a bad idea.
Anyway, yes, episode 1 of The Mando Mystery Tour. Quite good. It's very much a western, but with a grime-covered ANH aesthetic. Feels very lived in.
IG droids are dangerous.
And the target of the bounty... well... I never thought they'd ever broach that particular subject. Yikes...
H.B.M.C. wrote: A staggered launch, unless impossible due to infrastructure (which seems hard to imagine, given that Kiwiland is getting it before the UK), is a bad idea.
Not infrastructure. Completely and totally a result of existing licencing and distribution deals. Netflix UK, and, more significantly, Sky TV have deals in place for large chunks of both Disney and Fox content. Disney tried to buy Sky which would have short circuited a lot of the problems and perhaps allowed a similar release schedule, but Comcast beat them to the punch.
Unsurprisingly, given what we now know about the UK release, the contracts run to 2020...
H.B.M.C. wrote: A staggered launch, unless impossible due to infrastructure (which seems hard to imagine, given that Kiwiland is getting it before the UK), is a bad idea.
Not infrastructure. Completely and totally a result of existing licencing and distribution deals. Netflix UK, and, more significantly, Sky TV have deals in place for large chunks of both Disney and Fox content. Disney tried to buy Sky which would have short circuited a lot of the problems and perhaps allowed a similar release schedule, but Comcast beat them to the punch.
Unsurprisingly, given what we now know about the UK release, the contracts run to 2020...
Yup.
The issues are who own distribution rights where. Disney 10 years ago may have cut a deal with x,y,z, companies in other countries to distribute their content exclusively in those countries and now those contracts prevent Disney from distributing their content on their own with the streaming service.
Enjoyed it, solid B+ for mine. There were a few minor niggles but overall felt very SW (the grimy version) and have great hopes for this going forward.
Yodhrin wrote: If anyone was thinking about having a wee snigger at Karen Traviss' expense over this show...yeesh, her twitter should have a health warning.
I suppose it serves me right for anticipating enjoying someone else's misery, but, as the kids say, yikes.
Not sure what you're getting at. Her books were invalidated years ago in relation to the Mandos with the Clone Wars (was it before the EU purge? I don't recall...) so I don't expect too many fans to be riled up en masse if something in this new show contradicts them further. I rather enjoyed the books myself (didn't watch clone wars to the point they were invalidated) and am glad that by some reports minor things from the EU like beskar are making it in.
Yodhrin wrote: If anyone was thinking about having a wee snigger at Karen Traviss' expense over this show...yeesh, her twitter should have a health warning.
I suppose it serves me right for anticipating enjoying someone else's misery, but, as the kids say, yikes.
Now, now, don’t tease. What is so yikes? Is she threatening to strangle Filoni or something?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if this series will come out on DVD...
I'm not picking up D+, but went to my brother's this evening for hot dogs and he decided to watch the first episode.
Completely...meh? The IG droid was the highlight, but the rest of it was a bit on the...try-hard side? Some very forced encounters, some encounters basically making the protag look like a wimp, etc. Wasn't sold by the atmosphere or costumes. Herzog was a nice surprise. I think I was expecting much more, like an HBO level of show. Definitely not that.
Some of it did feel a bit hammy, and the music was hit/miss. I'd give it a B, maybe a C+. I watched it twice now, I think I was expecting it to be a bit more mature, with better production values. I got a bit of a cosplay vibe from some of the costumes. I think they should have shot it on film just to kind of give it a more cinematic look and conceal any rough edges. The way in which it unfolded though felt more like a live action cartoon or comic though, and not a full fledged series. Like if you compare the 'feel" of this in terms of style and production to something like Band of Brothers, BoB seems much better made. Also putting all these comedians in the show feels weird for Star Wars, not sure if I want to say it but it kinda reeks of possible nepotism.
Yodhrin wrote: If anyone was thinking about having a wee snigger at Karen Traviss' expense over this show...yeesh, her twitter should have a health warning.
I suppose it serves me right for anticipating enjoying someone else's misery, but, as the kids say, yikes.
Now, now, don’t tease. What is so yikes? Is she threatening to strangle Filoni or something?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if this series will come out on DVD...
I Can't Say because of the forum rules. I used the word yikes advisedly, and not in relation to her writing for Star Wars.
Yodhrin wrote: If anyone was thinking about having a wee snigger at Karen Traviss' expense over this show...yeesh, her twitter should have a health warning.
I suppose it serves me right for anticipating enjoying someone else's misery, but, as the kids say, yikes.
Was there something show-specific on there? If so it's been deleted.
But in general? Yeah. From what I remember about her tantrums etc it should be no surprise she's retweeting the likes of Piers Morgan.
Nope. Nothing about Star Wars there. Just a bunch of stuff that does't fit The Narrative™, so I guess that makes her a "yikes" person, right? Didn't know she was English.
Good overall. Definitely felt like it started as a Boba series. Sometimes blurs the line between feeling desolate, lonely, and empty and feeling a bit cheap, but then they drop a fortune on some major scenes and its money well spent.
Also, desperately want a set of Looncurse to put a helmet on the Loonboss that comes in that set....
Saw it, loved it, can't wait for the next episode.
Spoiler:
Regarding the helmet removal: I got the impression that's just a hearsay legend about Mandos. Even in the SW universe, they are mysterious. I get the feeling that since they are an honor-bound warrior society, they tend to keep stuff close to their chest and when "loners" go out bounty hunting, they probably do keep their helmets on all the time.
But the Mandos in Clone Wars and Rebels are either: A) In groups, not bounty hunting B) a splinter faction working outside the main Mando society (even though they think of themselves as "true" Mandos or C) disillusioned members of a broken society (Sabin Ren and others)
Also (and this is especially spoilery so don't open the tag if you want to avoid):
Spoiler:
50 YEAR OLD BABY YODLING!!! That was a surprising reveal. And 50 years is a long time to need diaper changes
Galef wrote: Saw it, loved it, can't wait for the next episode.
So I've not been keeping track, but I subscribed to D+ and expected the entire show to be available. Is this going to be a weekly thing? I'm so used to Prime and Netflix just dropping their shows all in one and thought Disney would do the same.
Is the first episode just a teaser, with the rest of the season dropping at a later date or is it going to be a weekly thing?
Regarding the helmet removal: I got the impression that's just a hearsay legend about Mandos. Even in the SW universe, they are mysterious. I get the feeling that since they are an honor-bound warrior society, they tend to keep stuff close to their chest and when "loners" go out bounty hunting, they probably do keep their helmets on all the time.
But the Mandos in Clone Wars and Rebels are either:
A) In groups, not bounty hunting
B) a splinter faction working outside the main Mando society (even though they think of themselves as "true" Mandos or
C) disillusioned members of a broken society (Sabin Ren and others)
The issue is that a large chunk of the pre-existing Mandalorian lore was jettisoned when the Legends demarcation went down, with newer material (that you've referenced) taking precedence. Depending on one's opinions on both the EU Mandos, as well as the Legends canon situation, gak gets...complicated. There are a lot of expectations out there that may or may not be grounded in the latest version of continuity.
Of the SW cultures, its always been one heavily subject to retcons and conflicting information. I never totally followed it even when I was deeply invested in the EU.
Regarding the helmet removal: I got the impression that's just a hearsay legend about Mandos. Even in the SW universe, they are mysterious. I get the feeling that since they are an honor-bound warrior society, they tend to keep stuff close to their chest and when "loners" go out bounty hunting, they probably do keep their helmets on all the time.
But the Mandos in Clone Wars and Rebels are either:
A) In groups, not bounty hunting
B) a splinter faction working outside the main Mando society (even though they think of themselves as "true" Mandos or
C) disillusioned members of a broken society (Sabin Ren and others)
The issue is that a large chunk of the pre-existing Mandalorian lore was jettisoned when the Legends demarcation went down, with newer material (that you've referenced) taking precedence. Depending on one's opinions on both the EU Mandos, as well as the Legends canon situation, gak gets...complicated. There are a lot of expectations out there that may or may not be grounded in the latest version of continuity.
I wasn't referring to EU stuff at all, only the Canon stuff, which Clone Wars and Rebels still is.
The point I was making is that: yes, Mandos take their helmets off, we've seen this IN CANON plenty of times, but for the denizens of the galaxy far, far away who AREN'T privy to seeing the movies and shows, Mandos are still a mysterious and legendary group, much like the Jedi.
So there being a "myth" in-universe that Mandos do not take off their helmet is very cool even if it isn't true
Galef wrote: Saw it, loved it, can't wait for the next episode.
So I've not been keeping track, but I subscribed to D+ and expected the entire show to be available. Is this going to be a weekly thing? I'm so used to Prime and Netflix just dropping their shows all in one and thought Disney would do the same.
Is the first episode just a teaser, with the rest of the season dropping at a later date or is it going to be a weekly thing?
As I understand it we get another episode on friday and then one every subsequent friday.
I wasn't referring to EU stuff at all, only the Canon stuff, which Clone Wars and Rebels still is.
The point I was making is that: yes, Mandos take their helmets off, we've seen this IN CANON plenty of times, but for the denizens of the galaxy far, far away who AREN'T privy to seeing the movies and shows, Mandos are still a mysterious and legendary group, much like the Jedi.
So there being a "myth" in-universe that Mandos do not take off their helmet is very cool even if it isn't true
I'm aware of your particular stance on continuity. It's not universal however, and is a source of considerable consternation, for better or worse.
At the end of the day, its a narrative tool that can work well if handled correctly (see: Karl Urban in Judge Dredd). It will be interesting to see how things go.
Galef wrote: Saw it, loved it, can't wait for the next episode.
So I've not been keeping track, but I subscribed to D+ and expected the entire show to be available. Is this going to be a weekly thing? I'm so used to Prime and Netflix just dropping their shows all in one and thought Disney would do the same.
Is the first episode just a teaser, with the rest of the season dropping at a later date or is it going to be a weekly thing?
As I understand it we get another episode on friday and then one every subsequent friday.
Correct. It's a weekly thing. But there are only 8 Episodes (so far and according to IMDB) and I think I heard that they were already given the green light for a Season 2
If you REALLY want to binge watch all the episodes at once, you can wait until about mid-January to sing up
On the Mando culture front, as far as Disneycanon goes all we know is they existed as a warrior culture for a long but indeterminate time, during the late period of the Galactic Republic(I think that's right? IIRC it goes The Old Republic > The Republic > Galactic Republic > First Galactic Empire > New Republic) a political movement leads to a brief period of pacifism and active neutrality, which descends into strife at the tail end of the Clone Wars, and by the period just prior to the Battle of Yavin they've become a society comprised of multiple clans with their own holdings which were nominally collectively aligned with the Empire, and some of which subsequently rose up against them and installed Bo-Katan as the new Mandalore.
So there's about a decade missing between then and the "present day" of the show.
Even Netflix has started shifting some of its content to weekly...they realized "hey some people are paying one month just to binge watch X, Y and Z". They would rather keep people on the hook for at least a few months.
Galef wrote: Saw it, loved it, can't wait for the next episode.
So I've not been keeping track, but I subscribed to D+ and expected the entire show to be available. Is this going to be a weekly thing? I'm so used to Prime and Netflix just dropping their shows all in one and thought Disney would do the same.
Is the first episode just a teaser, with the rest of the season dropping at a later date or is it going to be a weekly thing?
According to Wikipedia the next episode is Friday 15th, and then every Friday.
So I got my ol' pegleg and eyepatch back on and watched the first episode. I'll admit I was dramatically surprised by how much I liked the first episode. It was pretty awesome. I was expecting garbage, but it was actually rather solid. We'll see if the other episodes can keep it up.
Yodhrin wrote: On the Mando culture front, as far as Disneycanon goes all we know is they existed as a warrior culture for a long but indeterminate time, during the late period of the Galactic Republic(I think that's right? IIRC it goes The Old Republic > The Republic > Galactic Republic > First Galactic Empire > New Republic) a political movement leads to a brief period of pacifism and active neutrality, which descends into strife at the tail end of the Clone Wars, and by the period just prior to the Battle of Yavin they've become a society comprised of multiple clans with their own holdings which were nominally collectively aligned with the Empire, and some of which subsequently rose up against them and installed Bo-Katan as the new Mandalore.
So there's about a decade missing between then and the "present day" of the show.
Even then the Pacifist movement seemed to only control Mandalore, as the Protectors have been shown as participating in the Clone Wars. So its likely that other groups of Mandos broke off to do their own thing, which makes sense concidering they were supposed to be fragmented enough that those that wanted Neutrality and to be Pacifists managed to swing control (albeit not uncontested if how Satine and Obi met is any indication). Also Bo-Katan was declared Mandalore by the Anti-Empire Mandos, but was never shown being installed as Mandalore, taking control of them. So the outcome of the Mandalorian Civil War version who even knows at this point, is unknown.
Definitely very good. Its got the gritty Star Wars vibe that I've been craving. And what looks to be high production values to boot. Not overly reliant on CGI. And I like the story as its playing out.
Yodhrin wrote: On the Mando culture front, as far as Disneycanon goes all we know is they existed as a warrior culture for a long but indeterminate time, during the late period of the Galactic Republic(I think that's right? IIRC it goes The Old Republic > The Republic > Galactic Republic > First Galactic Empire > New Republic) a political movement leads to a brief period of pacifism and active neutrality, which descends into strife at the tail end of the Clone Wars, and by the period just prior to the Battle of Yavin they've become a society comprised of multiple clans with their own holdings which were nominally collectively aligned with the Empire, and some of which subsequently rose up against them and installed Bo-Katan as the new Mandalore.
So there's about a decade missing between then and the "present day" of the show.
Even then the Pacifist movement seemed to only control Mandalore, as the Protectors have been shown as participating in the Clone Wars. So its likely that other groups of Mandos broke off to do their own thing, which makes sense concidering they were supposed to be fragmented enough that those that wanted Neutrality and to be Pacifists managed to swing control (albeit not uncontested if how Satine and Obi met is any indication). Also Bo-Katan was declared Mandalore by the Anti-Empire Mandos, but was never shown being installed as Mandalore, taking control of them. So the outcome of the Mandalorian Civil War version who even knows at this point, is unknown.
Aye. The Mandalorians have always, even when ostensibly united, been a bit of a fractured group. Their basic culture lends itself to the clan being the most important level of their society, which means that they'll mostly do their own thing and not gather in a larger unified society with homogeneous ideologies.
It would make perfect sense for the more traditional clans to leave Mandalore during the pacifist era during the Republic. It would be a disgusting betrayal of their millennia-old culture that had a great history, and that watering down would not sit well with them.
I think this parallels somewhat with the Mongols, and I think that was intentional. The Mandalorians are a warrior society that might unite under a strong leader, but in the absence of someone with the true charisma to unite them all(a Mandalore) they'll resort to infighting because they are at the core a society where the strongest person becomes the leader. Which means everybody who thinks himself strong will fight everybody else who thinks they are strong.
So I heard the 2nd episode and the rest of them are even shorter than the pilot (running at 30ish minutes including credits) really disappointing news to me, feels more like a sitcom length. 45 minutes each would have been ideal. I hope season 2 has a bit more meat on it's bones cause for the flagship show of Disney plus...bit weak. Can't see myself keeping this sub when this season ends, not much else on here to keep my interest.
I find shows generally don't have more than 20 minutes of real content no matter how long their runtime. I actively gave up on hour long episodes a few years ago because there was just so much padding.
Even shorter? That's going to be a short run time for the 8 episode season if that continues. Glad to hear it continues to satisfy though. And, yes, Jawas are vermin.
Thargrim wrote: So I heard the 2nd episode and the rest of them are even shorter than the pilot (running at 30ish minutes including credits) really disappointing news to me, feels more like a sitcom length. 45 minutes each would have been ideal. I hope season 2 has a bit more meat on it's bones cause for the flagship show of Disney plus...bit weak. Can't see myself keeping this sub when this season ends, not much else on here to keep my interest.
edit: episode 2 was about 27 minutes, jesus
It's a live action Clone Wars equivalent, and a timing format Filoni has become exquisitely good at using.
Thargrim wrote: So I heard the 2nd episode and the rest of them are even shorter than the pilot (running at 30ish minutes including credits) really disappointing news to me, feels more like a sitcom length. 45 minutes each would have been ideal. I hope season 2 has a bit more meat on it's bones cause for the flagship show of Disney plus...bit weak. Can't see myself keeping this sub when this season ends, not much else on here to keep my interest.
edit: episode 2 was about 27 minutes, jesus
It's a live action Clone Wars equivalent, and a timing format Filoni has become exquisitely good at using.
Yeah, I'm kinda glad it's short. It's more like a long movie broken into parts rather than a true weekly TV show.
Yup, think of it has a 4 hour movie rather than a 10 hour series.
I only saw the first one so far, last night - but we absolutely love it so far. This is probably my favorite Star Wars thing so far out of all of them.
I'm not glad it's short, but only because it's so bloody good and I want more immediately.
I actually laughed out loud several times, I'm even starting to like the wee babby and I was really hesitant about that when it was rumoured. The rifle is mental as well.
I'm liking it so far. Some of the CGI is a little rough, but it's not too distracting. The IG-series droid in episode 1 was pretty cool to see. The music reminds me of the music from 80s fantasy movies like Conan the Barbarian, Conan the Destroyer, and The Dark Crystal.
I was fortunate enough to have a friend who subscribed to Disney+ invite me over to watch the first two episodes.
The first episode did not impress me at all. The as yet unnamed protagonist could not walk ten feet without stumbling over an absurdly conspicuous OT reference. The final reveal left me in absolute stitches. I didn’t think Disney’s Lucasfilm could be any more pathetic and desperate after what I have seen of their attempt to market Episode IX. But the end of the Mandalorian pilot is a new low. Otherwise, the writing and characterization was pretty uneven. Just as an example, we’re introduced to a laconic super badass but when the iG robot shows up the unnamed protagonist becomes the talky one and the droid is now the laconic super badass. And between comic quips, they are mowing down dozens of mooks. They must have murdered at least sixty guys. From gritty and serious to goofy buddy comedy, what a tonal shift. Then he shoots his new buddy in the head. I had no idea what I was supposed to feel about the show. But what I did feel was slightly nauseated.
I did like two things about the pilot: First, I liked that they built in the setting detail that the protagonist would accept half the posted bounty in a system specific currency rather than accept the whole bounty is an ostensible galactic currency because it was Imperial credits. This is a really nice way to subtly establish where we are in the timeline and what’s up. In the same vein, I really loved how ratty and scrawny the Storm Troopers looked; like coyotes in a lean season. It was really awesome how they instantly managed to make Storm Troopers, who have become the universal symbol for useless goons, into something that seems desperate, hungry, and dangerous. Some real smart little touches there that are easy to lose against the catastrophically stupid final scenes,
Thankfully, the second episode clarified that this show is just going to be a goofy mess. I mean, I know that sounds pretty negative, and it partly is, but I really warmed up to the show in the second episode. Never in my life did I imagine that Disney would take the iconic imagery of the ice cold, ruthless, hyper skilled Mandalorian bounty hunter and then
Spoiler:
have him get his ass whooped by a pack of scummy garbage thieving midgets.
I mean this very seriously. After the yawn fest first episode, it seemed clear that Favreau and Filoni had no new ideas. But I would never in a million years have expected to see a scene where a character that is too badass to say more than five words in a given sentence get
Spoiler:
his dumb ass mercilessly wrecked by the lowest, filthiest trash in the galaxy while they literally fething laugh in his face, and all this after they have already looted all his guns and parted out his space ship.
I must admit, that was a completely novel take on the notion of how to portray a hard as nails bounty hunter that I definitely did not see coming at all. Maybe this could be interesting, if it turns out that the protagonist just looks like he should be super competent but actually he is a greenhorn. Hey maybe that’s why he just now got his first big boy pauldron?
However, what I did see coming and what ruined the fun I was having with this awesome fresh idea was
Spoiler:
the played out bull gak idea that a baby can use the Force, which seems like a pretty strong line drawn under the stupid midichlorian crap that Filoni loves.
But what else can you expect from such a dumb plot development. Let’s just hope for the sake of the show that it is more about
Spoiler:
the awesome looking dude getting realistically fethed up, even by deceptively trivial obstacles,
rather than
Spoiler:
yet further bs about the dumb Force, which has been ruined totally for twenty years now with seemingly no end to the bs in sight.
Surely now the series is out in the wild, anyone clicking it without being up to date is effectively walking down a corridor of rooms full of people discussing all sorts of topics, stopping at the door labelled "People discussing The Mandalorian," throwing it open and then insisting everyone shut up because they've not seen it?
I haven't watched the show but I'm mature enough to understand that participating in a thread about the show means I will invariably risk seeing spoilers. I think a reasonable middle ground is to not talk about the current/past week's spoilers to give people a few days to catch up. If you haven't watched the first week's worth of episodes (two in this unique case) by the time the third premieres on Friday, you shouldn't be angry if folks are discussing what is by that point old news in the single thread allowed on the topic. YMMV.
Surely now the series is out in the wild, anyone clicking it without being up to date is effectively walking down a corridor of rooms full of people discussing all sorts of topics, stopping at the door labelled "People discussing The Mandalorian," throwing it open and then insisting everyone shut up because they've not seen it?
One reason I can think of is it's weird release schedule. They aren't even dropping one a week, you know?
It's going to be very easy to make the mistake of thinking you're caught up, when you missed one of the 3, 5 or 9 day release dates.
I am absolutely loving the content so far.
Spoiler:
Jawas are my favorite alien, and it was great to see them kicking butt, being disintegrated, and then striking weird bargains that only they think are beneficial.
This is shaping up to be a pretty awesome show, beautiful visuals both with the cgi and puppetry. That sandcrawler looked fantastic!
Shame the episodes are so short but I would rather that than dragging each one out to 40 mins. I've been catching up on some CW shows like arrow and flash and each episode spends a good 10 mins going over the same motivational speeches and bad dialogue every single time to drag out the run time.
One reason I can think of is it's weird release schedule. They aren't even dropping one a week, you know?
Apart from the first two, they are one a week.
It launched on a Tuesday, with ep2 on the Friday, but all remaining ones are FRIDAY releases.
Carl Weathers only agreed to do the job provided he got to direct an episode (which he will, for S2).
Dave Filoni is supposed to be directing a few more for S2.
Shame the episodes are so short but I would rather that than dragging each one out to 40 mins. I've been catching up on some CW shows like arrow and flash and each episode spends a good 10 mins going over the same motivational speeches and bad dialogue every single time to drag out the run time.
Indeed. As much as I want more of this series, right now, thanks to them nailing the pacing it didn't really feel like episode 2 was 'too short'. It certainly didn't need padding.
Surely now the series is out in the wild, anyone clicking it without being up to date is effectively walking down a corridor of rooms full of people discussing all sorts of topics, stopping at the door labelled "People discussing The Mandalorian," throwing it open and then insisting everyone shut up because they've not seen it?
Agree 100%. If you are upset a show got spoiled for you by you going to page 16 of a thread discussing it, you are the author of your own misfortune.
One reason I can think of is it's weird release schedule. They aren't even dropping one a week, you know?
Apart from the first two, they are one a week.
It launched on a Tuesday, with ep2 on the Friday, but all remaining ones are FRIDAY releases.
Carl Weathers only agreed to do the job provided he got to direct an episode (which he will, for S2).
Dave Filoni is supposed to be directing a few more for S2.
That was my expectation as well, but it isn't so.
Spoiler:
There's a rogue Wednesday release in there towards the end, making it truly strange. So- 3, 7,7,7,7,5,9 days between episodes. I predict many will miss that Wednesday release.
The odd thing is, the Wednesday doesn't even do anything. If people are expecting it Friday, they aren't 'missing out' they way they would with TV show.
I guess they decided to be nice so people wouldn't mess up their holiday travel?
Anyway, the last week of the year seems a good time to put the free trial through its paces.
Surely now the series is out in the wild, anyone clicking it without being up to date is effectively walking down a corridor of rooms full of people discussing all sorts of topics, stopping at the door labelled "People discussing The Mandalorian," throwing it open and then insisting everyone shut up because they've not seen it?
Agree 100%. If you are upset a show got spoiled for you by you going to page 16 of a thread discussing it, you are the author of your own misfortune.
Hey i just used spoiler tags because I only read the thread title before posting. I’m not trying to lay down the law or anything.
Quite, wasn't getting at you, it was just the ridiculous way you had to write that post prompted me to wonder why you had to go to so much trouble to protect people who had nobody but themselves to blame if they were reading it.
By all accounts, we're fine up to the week before Christmas, then we need to be careful for a few days.
Voss wrote: The odd thing is, the Wednesday doesn't even do anything. If people are expecting it Friday, they aren't 'missing out' they way they would with TV show.
I guess they decided to be nice so people wouldn't mess up their holiday travel?
Anyway, the last week of the year seems a good time to put the free trial through its paces.
I get the feeling they want us to watch it before episode 9 releases.
I don't think I recall the answer to this, if there was one - are there different release dates regionally? I know it was speculated about but I don't know if there was a definitive answer.
Sorry if this has been discussed but does the interface let you 'play from beginning' or otherwise let you see how far an episode has been played? If there is, I haven't figured it out and would gladly follow suggestions on how to access those features.
I ask because there are three of us on the account. I watched 30 seconds of episode 2 thinking it was the start only to see the end credits start to roll.
I don't think so. The UI on Disney+ definitely leaves a bit to be desired. No "hover over this title to see the synopsis" feature. No button to immediately click to the next episode, you have to open a menu or wait longer than usual. And no list of stuff you've been watching so you can keep at it.
Grey Templar wrote: I don't think so. The UI on Disney+ definitely leaves a bit to be desired. No "hover over this title to see the synopsis" feature. No button to immediately click to the next episode, you have to open a menu or wait longer than usual. And no list of stuff you've been watching so you can keep at it.
Yeah. Its pretty good in terms of navigation but lacks some quality of life features. Netflix still has the best interface.
I was kinda hoping the were going to keep him unnamed, like an homage to Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name. Or even Schrödinger's Fett But apparently his name is Dyn Jarren according to Pedro Pascal himself
Grey Templar wrote: I don't think so. The UI on Disney+ definitely leaves a bit to be desired. No "hover over this title to see the synopsis" feature. No button to immediately click to the next episode, you have to open a menu or wait longer than usual. And no list of stuff you've been watching so you can keep at it.
Yeah. Its pretty good in terms of navigation but lacks some quality of life features. Netflix still has the best interface.
And if you are watching a series, you need to remember the episode you are on between watchings as it doesn't remember(save?) where you left off. It picks up where you left off in a given episode, but you have to pick that episode manually.
Although this could all be intentional to allow more banwidth (or whatever it is) to accommodate more users. Who knows. Either way I still like it way better than Netflix. There's actually stuff I want to watch longer term, not just binge watching 1-2 shows then be bored for months.
Back on topic, I absolutely love this show. Did not expect the direction it's going, but think it's a fantastic way to go somewhere new while still feeling like "classic" Star Wars
Overall, still an "okay" show. I'm not fully understanding the "omg best thing evar!" responses I'm seeing from people.
Spoiler:
I'm finding the script and intention isn't working with the character thus far. "You're a Mandalorian..." has been spouted a bunch of times as if it has gravitas/meaning. Yet the protagonist got his butt kicked by a squig....then his butt kicked by Jawas...then his butt kicked by a creature...They tried to make him look like a badass in the opening scene of episode one (the most hamfisted scene of the show yet, in my opinion). In short, this guy kinda sucks. I'd rather the show was written to support what it's showing, rather than everyone being in awe, etc. I'd prefer if it had been written as he was a failed bounty hunter or was an outcast with a bad reputation. As it stands it's just "let's watch the protagonist get his ass kicked" most episodes.
Elbows wrote: Overall, still an "okay" show. I'm not fully understanding the "omg best thing evar!" responses I'm seeing from people.
My guess is that, after years of Disney Star Wars that many (obviously not all though) consider an ongoing trashfire, something regarded as simply good to that same portion of the fanbase is a breath of fresh air. To borrow from an old SNL skit...
Alternatively, some of us just like to enjoy the things we watch without constant critique and criticism. It's what, IMO, made SW great in the first place. We don't criticize things we watch as children, we just watch it and enjoy.
That's what I like about this show. It FEELS like SW again, imperfections and all.
I don’t get why adults want to act like children and especially why adults would criticize other adults for not acting like children. Yes, children are more naive than adults. They are easier to manipulate and exploit because of this. It doesn’t make children a more sincere or insightful audience. Quite the reverse.
The Mandalorian is very obviously profiting from “at least it’s not (insert your least fav Disney SW product)” reverse coat tailing. But the reason this is even possible is because it is in fact a higher level of quality than most other Disney SW product. Now that’s not a high threshold IMO but there is some real quality here all the same.
Now if you just lap up whatever is served uncritically, I think you’re also not in a position to even “get” why this show is actually a cut above in some significant ways.
Elbows wrote: Overall, still an "okay" show. I'm not fully understanding the "omg best thing evar!" responses I'm seeing from people.
Spoiler:
I'm finding the script and intention isn't working with the character thus far. "You're a Mandalorian..." has been spouted a bunch of times as if it has gravitas/meaning. Yet the protagonist got his butt kicked by a squig....then his butt kicked by Jawas...then his butt kicked by a creature...They tried to make him look like a badass in the opening scene of episode one (the most hamfisted scene of the show yet, in my opinion). In short, this guy kinda sucks. I'd rather the show was written to support what it's showing, rather than everyone being in awe, etc. I'd prefer if it had been written as he was a failed bounty hunter or was an outcast with a bad reputation. As it stands it's just "let's watch the protagonist get his ass kicked" most episodes.
Tonally it's not meshing for me.
SW fans expectations for what Mandalorians are capable of has never matched with what we've seen on screen.
To Elbows’s point, I am convinced the Mando is actually a greenhorn poser trading on the rep of his people. Yes he is a great quickdraw but he is also rash, prone to anger, and prideful. This reading is supported by him only now getting his first real beskar pauldron.
My guess is that, after years of Disney Star Wars that many (obviously not all though) consider an ongoing trashfire, something regarded as simply good to that same portion of the fanbase is a breath of fresh air. To borrow from an old SNL skit...
For me, it's that the Madalorian has a similar tone and aesthetic to ESB.
The comparison to Disney's Saga movies is uneccessary. I enjoy them as well, while accepting that they're not perfect (none of the previous Star Wars movies were either) and that they have a different tone and feel to the previous movies (as the Prequels did to the OT, and as all three of the OT movies did...)
Manchu wrote: To Elbows’s point, I am convinced the Mando is actually a greenhorn poser trading on the rep of his people. Yes he is a great quickdraw but he is also rash, prone to anger, and prideful. This reading is supported by him only now getting his first real beskar pauldron.
This is possible, although I suspect it's more that a lot of the Mandalorian reputation is ultimately built on the myth. They're still just regular humans... The protagonist's strength is in his tenacity, rather than being perfect at everything.
Manchu wrote: To Elbows’s point, I am convinced the Mando is actually a greenhorn poser trading on the rep of his people. Yes he is a great quickdraw but he is also rash, prone to anger, and prideful. This reading is supported by him only now getting his first real beskar pauldron.
All of which makes him a more relatable character which we as the audience can share in his experience, rather than a fully "complete" character that doesn't need to grow at all and is there just to "be cool".
I guess the point I am trying to make (poorly) is that you get out of the experience what you are looking for. If you are looking for flaws, you'll find them. If you want to enjoy it you will. Obviously things that really are garbage will show, but the Mandalorian is far from that.
Manchu wrote: I don’t get why adults want to act like children and especially why adults would criticize other adults for not acting like children..
It's less about acting like children than about not wasting time watching something just to pick it apart. I'd rather focus on the things I like about a movie and enjoy the experience than pick apart all of the faults and come out of it feeling like I've just wasted two hours of my life. YMMV.
insaniak wrote: For me, it's that the Madalorian has a similar tone and aesthetic to ESB.
From the descriptions and reviews, it does sound like something that I'll enjoy to some degree as well but I'm waiting until the run is over to binge it. The biggest complaint (and it's relatively minor at that) that I've heard is that the music is off compared with the orchestral John William's scores fans are used to but I've listened to the character theme on youtube and it didn't bother me (nor did it appeal to me either) so I don't expect it to sway my opinion personally. It started out like an old Japenese wind instrument piece and segwayed into 60's spaghetti western tones. Again, I'm not enamored with it but neither was I bothered by it so it's a non-issue for me personally.
The show in general leans hard into the *space western* concept, and the music is no exception. It’s a little janky at first, but it’s rapidly grown on me. It very much helps to give it a different tone from the more grandiose scores of the films.
Again, it’s a technique that both Rebels and Clone Wars have employed to find their own particular “brand” of Star Wars, for lack of a better term.
Manchu wrote: I don’t get why adults want to act like children and especially why adults would criticize other adults for not acting like children..
It's less about acting like children than about not wasting time watching something just to pick it apart. I'd rather focus on the things I like about a movie and enjoy the experience than pick apart all of the faults and come out of it feeling like I've just wasted two hours of my life. YMMV.
Ding ding! That was much better put than what I was trying to say. All of our time is valuable, so I'd rather get the most out of it.
If you think a show/movie is going to be garbage or that you are going to be disappointed in it, than don't watch it. But if you are like me and you are still drinking the Star Wars Kool-Aid, you'll have a much better experience.
I acknowledge that movies like the Prequels and TLJ have some issues, but I don't let them affect my enjoyment of them
Manchu wrote: To Elbows’s point, I am convinced the Mando is actually a greenhorn poser trading on the rep of his people. Yes he is a great quickdraw but he is also rash, prone to anger, and prideful. This reading is supported by him only now getting his first real beskar pauldron.
All of which makes him a more relatable character which we as the audience can share in his experience, rather than a fully "complete" character that doesn't need to grow at all and is there just to "be cool".
I totally agree, he is a much more interesting character if he is not just a hyper competent badass. I really hope he is a poser who happens to be pretty good on the draw with a pistol and sorta makes up the rest as best as he can.
Manchu wrote: I don’t get why adults want to act like children and especially why adults would criticize other adults for not acting like children..
It's less about acting like children than about not wasting time watching something just to pick it apart. I'd rather focus on the things I like about a movie and enjoy the experience than pick apart all of the faults and come out of it feeling like I've just wasted two hours of my life. YMMV.
Thinking about what you consume is wasting time? To me, that sounds completely juvenile. But like you say, YMMV.
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Sterling191 wrote: The show in general leans hard into the *space western* concept, and the music is no exception. It’s a little janky at first, but it’s rapidly grown on me. It very much helps to give it a different tone from the more grandiose scores of the films.
The style of the music is fine. What it needs to have is an iconic theme. I haven’t listened to it enough to gauge how memorable it is.
No, thinking about what you consume is fine. But when you reach the point where everything you're getting from that experience is negative, that's a waste of time.
I watch movies for fun. If it's not fun, I'm wasting my time.
And sure, you can brand that as 'juvenile' if you like. There's a well known quote from C. S. Lewis that sums up quite well just how much I care about being thought childish.
Ouze wrote: I don't think I recall the answer to this, if there was one - are there different release dates regionally? I know it was speculated about but I don't know if there was a definitive answer.
Yes.
Australia gets it on the 19t, not the 12th. The Disney+ is not yet fully operational, so to speak.
UK gets it NEXT year in April?
If whether a film is fun or not comes down to the viewer refusing to think about its flaws then something has gone very wrong. If a restaurant serves rotten food, do you smile and choke it down to avoid wasting time?
Most media is a mixed bag. There are flaws and there are quality moments. Enjoying the latter isnt a function of pretending the former doesnt exist. For me, I enjoy the good all that much more for being honest about what’s not so good. The first two episodes of Mando are a great case in point. A lot of bland references in the pilot gave way to something really fresh in the second episode.
The only part of the score that irked me too much was when the mando and that nick nolte alien were riding the Blurrgs over these chasms. It felt like a really campy tune, very goofy to me. The use of the score in the 2nd episode was better to me.
Manchu wrote: If whether a film is fun or not comes down to the viewer refusing to think about its flaws then something has gone very wrong. If a restaurant serves rotten food, do you smile and choke it down to avoid wasting time?.
You're arguing a point I never made. I didn't say that I refuse to think about the flaws. I said that I don't let them impact my enjoyment of the film. Just as I can enjoy a restaurant meal even if some parts of it aren't quite up to scratch. If the meal is 'rotten' then I avoid wasting time by not eating it.
To clarify my earlier statement (which seems to have ignited some arguments), I think the show is okay, or good. I just don't see the mouth-watering "can't get enough" appeal that some people are spouting.
But it's also 2019 where people need to say something is garbage or "OMG it's the best thing I've ever seen". Maybe people need the extreme language because simply saying something is pretty good is...not enough now? I don't have particularly high standards, but I also don't grant things praise if they don't really earn it. I can only think of a half dozen properties in the past 5-10 years that have exceeded my expectations or blown me away - products that I can fully 100% endorse enthusiastically.
When I enter threads like this (and seeing similar posts on Facebook) I just think to myself "Did we watch the same show?". I posted on another forum that if you're in a country where this is delayed, you're not really missing anything. There's nothing life-changing about the show...it's just a good show. You'll see it in a few months and that's fine. I think a lot of people think you must hate something if you don't scream and shout about it like a high schooler.
I assume there are other people like me, so I don't mind trying to balance out the over-enthusiasm. If I read this thread before I watched the show I would have been let down. So, tempering expectations isn't a bad thing.
insaniak wrote: I don't let [the bad parts] impact my enjoyment of the film.
Seems like this is an issue of granularity. Some folks are looking at their media in very broad strokes, it’s either acceptable or not. Others are evaluating each piece: this scene worked well, this one didnt.
insaniak wrote: I don't let [the bad parts] impact my enjoyment of the film.
Seems like this is an issue of granularity. Some folks are looking at their media in very broad strokes, it’s either acceptable or not. Others are evaluating each piece: this scene worked well, this one didnt.
And to add to your point, I also think different people are vocal about different things. I was a theatre major in college, so script and story analysis is at least familiar to me. I can tell when a movie/show has "weak points" but unless those weak points are EGREGIOUS*, I don't bother discussing them. Instead, I try to focus on the stuff that I did enjoy so I get revel in those moments for longer**. And I fully admit I let myself fall victim to nostalgia, so there is certainly bias for me here
*and by egregious, we are talking dumpsterfire levels of "I wasn't even going to watch that in the first place" **Seriously that baby Yodling is so friggin cute I can't stand it! And the memes it is spawning were worth the D+ subscription alone
At least in my case, I'm an uncritical lapper because I'm not deeply enmeshed in Star Wars fandom. I didn't see the original trilogy until I was at least 27 or so, and didn't think they were that great. I think a lot of the appeal of the original trilogy when they came out was that nothing like this had really been seen before in the mainstream, but by the time I saw them, mainstream space sci-fi adventures were plentiful - and it just didn't engage me. I saw one of the prequels theatrically with a friend who was super into the franchise, and while I thought the droidika (sp?) were cool... on the whole it was kind of boring to me.
The only ones I saw when they came out in theaters were the most recent two, and I felt the same about those - they were OK, no great shakes.
So, I don't have any real expectations and my knowledge of the lore is very shallow. A such, it's a fun space western with characters I sort of recognize. The bar for "something great in the Star Wars universe" is for me is pretty low.
Also, seperate from (but added onto all that), I'm beginning to suspect I'm just easily amused.
Manchu wrote: To Elbows’s point, I am convinced the Mando is actually a greenhorn poser trading on the rep of his people. Yes he is a great quickdraw but he is also rash, prone to anger, and prideful. This reading is supported by him only now getting his first real beskar pauldron.
I don't think he or his fellow mandalorians claimed he was the best. The ritual with the armor made it seem like he was relatively junior. He can still be a good bounty hunter with some good street cred and still be a relatively newbie Mandalorian. I'm sure his bounty handler is not above overselling the abilities of the bounty hunters to perspective clients.
Ouze wrote: At least in my case, I'm an uncritical lapper because I'm not deeply enmeshed in Star Wars fandom. I didn't see the original trilogy until I was at least 27 or so, and didn't think they were that great. I think a lot of the appeal of the original trilogy when they came out was that nothing like this had really been seen before in the mainstream, but by the time I saw them, mainstream space sci-fi adventures were plentiful - and it just didn't engage me. I saw one of the prequels theatrically with a friend who was super into the franchise, and while I thought the droidika (sp?) were cool... on the whole it was kind of boring to me.
The only ones I saw when they came out in theaters were the most recent two, and I felt the same about those - they were OK, no great shakes.
So, I don't have any real expectations and my knowledge of the lore is very shallow. A such, it's a fun space western with characters I sort of recognize. The bar for "something great in the Star Wars universe" is for me is pretty low.
Also, seperate from (but added onto all that), I'm beginning to suspect I'm just easily amused.
I mean, it sounds to me more like Star Wars just didn't grab you personally. Which is fine, but it's not indicative of much beyond your personal taste, plenty of people have fallen in love with Star Wars at various times and ages regardless of how many other sci-fi movies they've seen.
Well I am enjoying it. I do like that he is not a veteran Mandalorian. We get to see him grow and earn his armor. That's pretty cool. It's like playing a SWRPG. And baby Yoda is awesome. I also really dig the space western vibe.
Feels to me like people are trying to back into their expectations with regard to the Mando. I don't get any impression that he's some sort of trainee. He's just not superhuman, to LunarSol's point. So yes, taking on big monsters and giant tanks can be a problem for a lone guy with a rifle.
Regarding the beskar, the writers made a point of explaining that amount is rare and extremely valuable, so that's why he's not clanking with the stuff. The answer is right there in the script. I think it's fair to say that the Mandos are diminished, but they aren't presenting an incompetent Mando warrior, just a mortal one.
gorgon wrote: Feels to me like people are trying to back into their expectations with regard to the Mando. I don't get any impression that he's some sort of trainee. He's just not superhuman, to LunarSol's point. So yes, taking on big monsters and giant tanks can be a problem for a lone guy with a rifle.
Regarding the beskar, the writers made a point of explaining that amount is rare and extremely valuable, so that's why he's not clanking with the stuff. The answer is right there in the script. I think it's fair to say that the Mandos are diminished, but they aren't presenting an incompetent Mando warrior, just a mortal one.
Agreed. I'm in the middle of watch Rebel seasons 3 & 4 right now and it seems like there are quite a few episodes that will expand on how the Mandos are divided during the era of the Empire.
I'm not sure if Mandos being slightly super-human (kinda like Jedi without the Force) is still canon, but even if it is, it seems clear that the Mando of this show isn't of that lineage directly as he is a "foundling" whatever that means.
Grey Templar wrote: I believe Mandalorians were always a specific culture. Not some super human subspecies. They're just regular humans with a famous culture.
Mandalorians are a cultural group. They are explicitly not a species, nor is any kind of augmentation part of their schtic. They're also not exclusively human (though are often presented as such in current lore), as any sentient can be adopted into a Clan.
The issue with the "super soldier" expectation is entirely due to how earlier now-Legends iterations on their lore were written. In short, they were Gary Stud to hell and back, then cranked up to fifteen on the plot armorometer. You can thank Karen Traviss for that (who incidentally just re-skinned them and used them as SPARTANs in her Halo novels, which should give you an idea of how ridiculously they were presented).
Sterling191 wrote: The issue with the "super soldier" expectation is entirely due to how earlier now-Legends iterations on their lore were written. In short, they were Gary Stud to hell and back, then cranked up to fifteen on the plot armorometer. You can thank Karen Traviss for that (who incidentally just re-skinned them and used them as SPARTANs in her Halo novels, which should give you an idea of how ridiculously they were presented).
Ah. That explains things, as I'm not an EU guy and took them more at face value as presented in the films and TV.
Yeah, I think a lot of their "super soilder" status has to do with them culturally developing to counter Jedi. So to the wider galaxy that views Jedi as super human, Mandos would likewise seem super human, even though they are not, because they can go toe-to-toe with Jedi.
Ah. That explains things, as I'm not an EU guy and took them more at face value as presented in the films and TV.
TCW, and later Rebels did IMO an excellent job of tempering the Mandalorian lore into a much more nuanced depiction of a highly fragmented, and at times even contradictory, martial culture. Unfortunately, there's a *lot* of baggage from the aughts thats proving hard to shake.
I expect (and in fact hope) that we'll see further exploration of the culture with this series.
Galef wrote: Yeah, I think a lot of their "super soilder" status has to do with them culturally developing to counter Jedi. So to the wider galaxy that views Jedi as super human, Mandos would likewise seem super human, even though they are not, because they can go toe-to-toe with Jedi.
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Thats certainly a component, though most of that edge comes down to "use exotic weapons and unorthodox tactics that Jedi were ill-prepared to defend against".
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gorgon wrote: The horns on the armorer's helmet seems to point to that, yes.
There's an exceptional amount of easter eggs for lore hounds in what is effectively a sequence of a guy walking down a hallway.
Beskar steel is probably another contributor to their super soldier mythos. It is a very strong form of armor, and the knowledge of how to use and manufacture it is almost exclusively a Mandalorian secret. So it probably contributes to them feeling special. No different than the legends of Damascus steel.
Interestingly, the prop they used for the Beskar ingot was clearly made by the Damascus method. Though unlike the smiths of antiquity, we still can't figure out how to get carbon nanotubes into the steel.
gorgon wrote: Feels to me like people are trying to back into their expectations with regard to the Mando. I don't get any impression that he's some sort of trainee. He's just not superhuman, to LunarSol's point. So yes, taking on big monsters and giant tanks can be a problem for a lone guy with a rifle.
Dude, are you kidding?
The protag better damn well be a greenhorn. It doesn’t make sense for him to be alive unless we are seeing the beginning of his career as a bounty hunter. Because outside of his quickdraw, he’s a disgrace to the profession.
Like you say, he’s a lone guy with a rifle (and a pistol and, most deadly of all, a boot knife). A single guy who, as a job, voluntarily walks into lethal situations. He’s also not a mercenary or an assassin. He is a bounty hunter. A hunter. He is supposed to be capable of stalking quarry. In order to not just survive but actually succeed, he needs to do stuff like scout, observe the prey, be patient, be cunning, be prepared. A decent bounty hunter needs to find and exploit the path of least resistance. Ya know, so he can live to collect his reward.
But literally every time we have seen him in action, he just rushes in with zero or close to zero preparation. Now, this is not a critique of the show because, to the show’s credit, the outcome in three out of four instances of him doing this is he gets his ass beat or would get his ass beat (or even die) if not for someone else’s intervention. And his single unqualified success involves him beating up three lowlife bullies picking on a coward.
To me, this is 100x more interesting than the typical Disney SW bull gak where our flawless badass protagonists can singlehandedly trash an entire platoon of Storm Troopers. This show has potential precisely because the main character is a reckless dumbass who needs to learn and grow as a character.
gorgon wrote: Feels to me like people are trying to back into their expectations with regard to the Mando. I don't get any impression that he's some sort of trainee. He's just not superhuman, to LunarSol's point. So yes, taking on big monsters and giant tanks can be a problem for a lone guy with a rifle.
Dude, are you kidding?
The protag better damn well be a greenhorn. It doesn’t make sense for him to be alive unless we are seeing the beginning of his career as a bounty hunter. Because outside of his quickdraw, he’s a disgrace to the profession.
Like you say, he’s a lone guy with a rifle (and a pistol and, most deadly of all, a boot knife). A single guy who, as a job, voluntarily walks into lethal situations. He’s also not a mercenary or an assassin. He is a bounty hunter. A hunter. He is supposed to be capable of stalking quarry. In order to not just survive but actually succeed, he needs to do stuff like scout, observe the prey, be patient, be cunning, be prepared. A decent bounty hunter needs to find and exploit the path of least resistance. Ya know, so he can live to collect his reward.
But literally every time we have seen him in action, he just rushes in with zero or close to zero preparation. Now, this is not a critique of the show because, to the show’s credit, the outcome in three out of four instances of him doing this is he gets his ass beat or would get his ass beat (or even die) if not for someone else’s intervention. And his single unqualified success involves him beating up three lowlife bullies picking on a coward.
To me, this is 100x more interesting than the typical Disney SW bull gak where our flawless badass protagonists can singlehandedly trash an entire platoon of Storm Troopers. This show has potential precisely because the main character is a reckless dumbass who needs to learn and grow as a character.
Look, everyone's free to interface with a creative work how they see fit. If your read makes the show more enjoyable for you, so be it. However, I don't think the intent is to show a greenhorn/rookie/bumbling character. He struggles at times because the show is a little more grounded for a SW enterprise and isn't interested in superheroics. Taking down a couple Trandoshians in close combat is a bigger deal in this series. He's cocky and barges into situations at times because it's a western. He's underequipped and somewhat of a diminished Mandolarian because of the state of his people. His past is mysterious at this point, but that doesn't have to mean some big switcheroo. Again, western. I can't fathom what the purpose would be of making him a 'poser', in your words. But if it works for you, great.
I don't think that he means "poser" but rather someone with something to prove. He's got the skills and hardware, but he still has a ways to go, which is represented by slowly obtaining Baskar to reforge his armour.
It's a metaphor for reforging himself. He doesn't seem to have been born a Mando, but was rather taken in by them. So he is trying to prove that he is worthy, either to them or to himself. At least, that's the impression I am getting.
I just started season 4 of Rebels which is quite Mando-heavy. I'm keeping an eye out for anyone who could be our Mando. He'd be a kid/younger man during the Rebels era. Keeping my ears open for any side characters named Dyn Jarren
The whole Beskar steel plot element is a pretty clear indication that this character is at the beginning of his development.
It is first mentioned when the cantina bullies ask if his armor is “real Beskar steel” and then rudely knick it, demonstrating it is not — the implication being that they think he’s a phony.
Next up, he is rewarded for getting some Beskar steel for his clan by getting a pauldron. This is his first and only item of Beskar steel, probably meaning that he doesn’t enjoy very high status in his own group (and that obtaining it is what motivates him).
But it’s just obvious that he’s a rookie. Or at the very least he has a unconscious death wish.
Manchu wrote: This is his first and only item of Beskar steel, probably meaning that he doesn’t enjoy very high status in his own group (and that obtaining it is what motivates him).
I don't know if it's his first item. His helmet looks like it may be Beskar too since it's the only other shiny-shiny piece of armour. Those bar-bullies only nicked his chest plate
I thought his breastplate was Beskar too. I didn't see any actual damage to it when the cantina thugs attempted to scratch it. Plus it immediately deflects a blaster bolt in the cantina fight scene too.
Grey Templar wrote: I thought his breastplate was Beskar too. I didn't see any actual damage to it when the cantina thugs attempted to scratch it. Plus it immediately deflects a blaster bolt in the cantina fight scene too.
But then gets trashed in fight with the rhino critter.
Grey Templar wrote: I thought his breastplate was Beskar too. I didn't see any actual damage to it when the cantina thugs attempted to scratch it. Plus it immediately deflects a blaster bolt in the cantina fight scene too.
Unlike most other Star Wars offerings, body armor actually does stuff in this series. However, we see his gear get steadily degraded over the course of the first two episodes. There are several huge dings in the armor from the EP1 firefight (that were not present beforehand), and as stated it gets absolutely bashed to hell by the Reek in EP2.
I don't think Beskar is ever assumed to be invincible. Its only stated unique properties are that it can deflect blaster bolts and resist lightsabers. Physical impacts might be a weakness of the metal.
Grey Templar wrote: I don't think Beskar is ever assumed to be invincible. Its only stated unique properties are that it can deflect blaster bolts and resist lightsabers. Physical impacts might be a weakness of the metal.
It isn't. Beskar is used for Mandalorian melee weapons as well as armor.
I mean, it is still a miracle that he is alive after being tossed around by the rhino-thing. Its hardly a criticism that his armor is trashed. It did kept him alive. I don't think it diminishes Beskar for it to get trashed by an alien monster.
I just realized that in addition to all the Indiana Jones referenced in the second episode (like the Jawa tank chase), the Mando being trampled by the furry rhino is very similar to Jango getting trampled by that 3 horn rhino in Attack of the Clones.
So far all the subtle calls backs are hitting the nostalgia button hard
The armorer's line after being handled one small ingot of beskar: "This is extremely generous. The excess will be used to sponsor many foundlings."
She also says that it was taken in the purge and that it's good to have it back with the tribe. In other words, beskar is now rare among their people and highly valuable (because how much excess could there have been after the pauldron), allowing us to surmise that few Mandalorians would be wearing full suits of the stuff. It's right there in the script.
I *don't think* the breastplate was beskar. The visual cue for beskar in the series seems to be the polished finish.
Of course, the ex-Imperial is sitting on a stash, and
Spoiler:
inspection of the trailer seems to reveal (from all the shiny armor plates) that he'll get a major beskar upgrade during the season. And that he's not kidding when he says he likes his odds versus multiple stormtroopers.
That flight of the valkyries scene surprised me. I was rather expecting a thing where Mando defeats/escapes from the bounty hunters himself, and the other Mandolorians take it upon themselves to hunt him down for the breach in honor he pulled as a kind of escalating threat thing.
Yeah, but in the end I think what we got was cooler. Also fun to see Favreau suited up in live action.
Spoiler:
It looks like the show Mandos are very much in the older "if you follow the culture you're One Of Us" vein. That also gives us a nice explanation for why "Mando" is so revered and widely known - the legend is actually the exploits of many Mandalorians, but most are in hiding so only one will typically be abroad at any given time from any given hideaway. It also seems like the Empire didn't react well to Bo-Katan's elevation to Mandalore and the Wren clan's involvement with the Rebellion. They continue to give us just enough Yodling to be endearing without it overstaying its welcome.
Also, am I wrong, or does the scientist guy have the same insignia on his arm as the one worn by the Clone personnel on Kamino?
Also, am I wrong, or does the scientist guy have the same insignia on his arm as the one worn by the Clone personnel on Kamino?
Spoiler:
It does look like it (and I thought that was mentioned previously, but that could be elsewhere). One theory is that it's a Yoda clone, but he's a bit too old for that.
I suspect we'll find out more as time goes by. the splash screen has other people with him, so I suspect after episode 3 we're going to see the Mando put together a team of his own.
One thing I'm more and more impressed by with each episode is Pedro's capacity to convey emotion without a visible face. Even seemingly simple stuff like the manner in which he walks changes depending on the mood of the character. Physical acting in the era of CGI is far too often an overlooked skill, but in this situation its absolutely critical, and he makes it look so damn easy.
One thing I'm more and more impressed by with each episode is Pedro's capacity to convey emotion without a visible face. Even seemingly simple stuff like the manner in which he walks changes depending on the mood of the character. Physical acting in the era of CGI is far too often an overlooked skill, but in this situation its absolutely critical, and he makes it look so damn easy.
It's helped by clever camera work, but yes, he's impressively expressive.
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Yodhrin wrote: Yeah, but in the end I think what we got was cooler. Also fun to see Favreau suited up in live action.
It also seems like the Empire didn't react well to Bo-Katan's elevation to Mandalore and the Wren clan's involvement with the Rebellion.
But at the same time, the purge we see isn't being enacted by the Empire (or the Republic, for that matter). Seems everyone wanted a piece of the Mandos.
And I want to know where that purge falls in the timeline compared to the Mando civil war that took place towards the end of the Clone Wars (the one where Maul was involved). We're going to see that in the upcoming season of Clone Wars, but that battle isn't the one we saw with the Super Battle Droids and the Droid Gunship flying overhead in this episode.
It also seems like the Empire didn't react well to Bo-Katan's elevation to Mandalore and the Wren clan's involvement with the Rebellion.
But at the same time, the purge we see isn't being enacted by the Empire (or the Republic, for that matter). Seems everyone wanted a piece of the Mandos.
And I want to know where that purge falls in the timeline compared to the Mando civil war that took place towards the end of the Clone Wars (the one where Maul was involved). We're going to see that in the upcoming season of Clone Wars, but that battle isn't the one we saw with the Super Battle Droids and the Droid Gunship flying overhead in this episode.
Not sure where it all fits.
I doubt the writers of the show know to be honest I get the feeling the is a fair bit of winging it with this show.
It also seems like the Empire didn't react well to Bo-Katan's elevation to Mandalore and the Wren clan's involvement with the Rebellion.
But at the same time, the purge we see isn't being enacted by the Empire (or the Republic, for that matter). Seems everyone wanted a piece of the Mandos.
And I want to know where that purge falls in the timeline compared to the Mando civil war that took place towards the end of the Clone Wars (the one where Maul was involved). We're going to see that in the upcoming season of Clone Wars, but that battle isn't the one we saw with the Super Battle Droids and the Droid Gunship flying overhead in this episode.
Not sure where it all fits.
I doubt the writers of the show know to be honest I get the feeling the is a fair bit of winging it with this show.
SW needs a Kevin Fiege type. Someone who is keeping the narrative straight and planning the time line. KK isn't really that person. Shes arguably the position over him approving or disapproving each step and element. They need a creative type who can map all this crap out and keep the narrative flow straight.
There is no reason to go into 7,8,9 knowing you are writing one story and then write each piece of that story separately AFTER each movie is released. They should have known the whole story before 7 started filming. Not figured it out as they went.
It also seems like the Empire didn't react well to Bo-Katan's elevation to Mandalore and the Wren clan's involvement with the Rebellion.
But at the same time, the purge we see isn't being enacted by the Empire (or the Republic, for that matter). Seems everyone wanted a piece of the Mandos.
And I want to know where that purge falls in the timeline compared to the Mando civil war that took place towards the end of the Clone Wars (the one where Maul was involved). We're going to see that in the upcoming season of Clone Wars, but that battle isn't the one we saw with the Super Battle Droids and the Droid Gunship flying overhead in this episode.
Not sure where it all fits.
I doubt the writers of the show know to be honest I get the feeling the is a fair bit of winging it with this show.
the guy running the show is Filoni, who also was the show running of SW rebels and SW clone wars. I suspect he's got a general story map in his head given he's the guy whose pretty much handled Mandalorians in canon
Azreal13 wrote: Welp, that's the toy range filled out for the season!
I suspect that an action figure series of just all of the Mando variants would make a lot of people very happy...
There are already at least three Black Series toys of just the main Mando!
Loved the third episode, so awesome. Really going from strength to strength which makes reading people saying that SW is doomed on various film threads quiet amusing.
Wonder if FFG can get the go ahead to do an entire Mandalorian faction for Legion.
Loved the third episode, so awesome. Really going from strength to strength which makes reading people saying that SW is doomed on various film threads quiet amusing.
Wonder if FFG can get the go ahead to do an entire Mandalorian faction for Legion.
I'm the first to admit that this is actually a pretty good month for Star Wars with Mando and Fallen Order but the previous entries have been TLJ, Solo, and the theme park additions. I'm not sure it's fair to call that series going from strength to strength...
2) Because the Empire didn't want a potential threat to their hegemony. The Mandalorians might not be traditional "good guys", but they actually have a moral code and are legendary warriors. So they'd definitely be a target.
I get the feeling that "foundlings" are less people adopted into Mandalorian culture and more recovered Mandalorians from Purge. But a Beskar helmet is core to their culture so for a Foundling to come back to the tribe they need to be able to give them a helmet.
Clans, in the general historical context, are usually made up of several families that are all related to each other by either marriage or blood. A "Foundling" is probably someone who is adopted into the Clan as opposed to born/married into it. Mandalorians have probably become forced to rely on adoption to keep their numbers up. Though they might focus on getting any actual Mandalorians they can if they have the opportunity.
Are we sure? The guy in the suit looked to have the right build to be him.
Assuming the big fella is the "Paz Viszla" credited in this EP, its not. Most of the Clan arent credited, only him and "The Smith" (which I think we can all identify).
Are we sure? The guy in the suit looked to have the right build to be him.
Assuming the big fella is the "Paz Viszla" credited in this EP, its not. Most of the Clan arent credited, only him and "The Smith" (which I think we can all identify).
They’re all Smith. It’s a very common Mandolorian name.
Ouze wrote: 1.) I like the idea he might be a rookie.
I think the comment from Bigger Fett about the titular character being a coward is more than just being a rookie. And its all dependent about on if/when they take his helmet off, but the dude playing Mando(Pedro Pascal, 44) doesn't strike me as having the look of a rookie, though I guess it all depends on the "path of the mandalore" and the age at which one chooses to start that path. I know feth all about Mandalorians outside of the KotOR games from years ago.
Ouze wrote: 1.) I like the idea he might be a rookie. I think that kind of plot development is more interesting to follow.
2.) Who wiped out the Mandolorians - the Empire? Why?
3.) What are those big robot things that killed his family?
The Empire would have attempted to wipe out the Mandalorian after they rebelled against their rule as seen in the last two seasons of Star Wars Rebels. While the show focused on the birth of the rebellion it did end with the mention that the Empire would return shortly to crush them.
As for the big robot thing, they look like good old Confederate droids of the Clone War. The Mandalorian was "adopted" into the clan. It stands to reason that his homeworld was destroyed during the Clone War and that he was rescued by Mandalorian fleeing their world during Maul's takeover or even during the pacifists reign who exiled the more hardcore traditionalist and warmongering Mandalorian like the Deathwatch.
One thing I'm more and more impressed by with each episode is Pedro's capacity to convey emotion without a visible face. Even seemingly simple stuff like the manner in which he walks changes depending on the mood of the character. Physical acting in the era of CGI is far too often an overlooked skill, but in this situation its absolutely critical, and he makes it look so damn easy.
It's helped by clever camera work, but yes, he's impressively expressive.
.
IIRC, he was much the same in got, so it's not a lucky hit for him.
I get the impression his family/town was wiped out during the Clone Wars and we'll see that the Mandolarians save him. At which point he will be brought into the clan. Sometime later the Empire, which probably used Mandolarians up to that point, turn on the Mandos and massacre them (The Purge). I don't think the bit with the Super Battle Droid is The Purge, just something during The Clone Wars.
My girl Gina Carano better be in the next episode, or I’ll call the police. Figured we’d have seen her by now, given that she’s in the banner for the show.
Looking forward to Bill Burr’s appearance too. That dude used to make fun of Star Wars so much and once he got a wiff of that Disney money, he had a ‘Come to Mickey’ moment. I have a feeling he’ll be a memorable character.
Ahtman wrote: I get the impression his family/town was wiped out during the Clone Wars and we'll see that the Mandolarians save him. At which point he will be brought into the clan. Sometime later the Empire, which probably used Mandolarians up to that point, turn on the Mandos and massacre them (The Purge). I don't think the bit with the Super Battle Droid is The Purge, just something during The Clone Wars.
I figure the same, that said we know a bit about the mandos in the rebellion era due to SW Rebels. we can assume the purge was after the events of rebels in response to the Mandalorian uprising.
BTW the super battledroid looked amazing as what appeared to be practical effects touched up with CGI. I almost didn't recognize what it was because it looked so good over the shiny cgi garbage of the prequels.
nels1031 wrote: My girl Gina Carano better be in the next episode, or I’ll call the police. Figured we’d have seen her by now, given that she’s in the banner for the show.
She's credited in 4 of 8 episodes per IMDB, so odds are good she'll be making her entrance shortly. IG-11 otoh only seems to pop up in that first episode, so make of that what you will.
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Ahtman wrote: I get the impression his family/town was wiped out during the Clone Wars and we'll see that the Mandolarians save him. At which point he will be brought into the clan. Sometime later the Empire, which probably used Mandolarians up to that point, turn on the Mandos and massacre them (The Purge). I don't think the bit with the Super Battle Droid is The Purge, just something during The Clone Wars.
I, too, get the impression that Dyn Jarren lost his parents during the Clone Wars and that explains his distaste for droids. The "Purge" otoh, is almost certainly referring to what happened to most Mandos after the events on Rebels. The Clone Wars show expands a lot of the socio-political situation on Mandalore and how it fractured into sub-groups. The Rebels picks up with some of those factions aligning with the Empire and others with the Rebellion.
I highly recommend both shows in general, but they are also the primary canon source for most of Mandalorian stuff.
Regarding IG-11, I wonder if he'll pop up again. I could easily see the writers dipping into Legends lore from IG-88. The droid we saw was but 1 of many IG-11s. The "body" itself is expendable, hence his lack of hesitation to initiate self-destruct. If one IG-11 is destroyed, another activates and takes its place.
nels1031 wrote: My girl Gina Carano better be in the next episode, or I’ll call the police. Figured we’d have seen her by now, given that she’s in the banner for the show.
Per the Vanity Fair piece that dropped today (which includes such hits as chronicling Werner Hertzog falling in love with baby yoda), Gina's character makes their entrance in this week's episode.
I just did the math, and if the release schedule stays the same. The 7th episode of the Mando will "air" the same day as the Rise of Skywalker releases. That would be ideal to leave some kind of cliffhanger for the last episode and 1 week to watch the movie before concluding the last episode of season 1
While I don't think there is likely to be a huge tie-in, the timing is quite convenient, which makes me think there is something to it. Maybe the reason the Imperial remnant want baby Yoda is to make a force sensitive army of clones, of which Rey may have been? Maybe their efforts are a directive from Palatine to make a powerfully force sensitive clone body for him to inhabit?
There's other possibilities, but it seems all too perfectly timed
when he's holding the ball in his hand, remembering probably the first time he saw a Mando helmet and how they took him in and gave him a family... and baby yoda saw HIS helm first and "didn't know he was my enemy".
How can he live with hinself if he betrays a more emotionally vulnerable being than he himself was?
when he's holding the ball in his hand, remembering probably the first time he saw a Mando helmet and how they took him in and gave him a family... and baby yoda saw HIS helm first and "didn't know he was my enemy".
How can he live with hinself if he betrays a more emotionally vulnerable being than he himself was?
Galef wrote: I just did the math, and if the release schedule stays the same. The 7th episode of the Mando will "air" the same day as the Rise of Skywalker releases. That would be ideal to leave some kind of cliffhanger for the last episode and 1 week to watch the movie before concluding the last episode of season 1
While I don't think there is likely to be a huge tie-in, the timing is quite convenient, which makes me think there is something to it.
Maybe the reason the Imperial remnant want baby Yoda is to make a force sensitive army of clones, of which Rey may have been?
Maybe their efforts are a directive from Palatine to make a powerfully force sensitive clone body for him to inhabit?
There's other possibilities, but it seems all too perfectly timed
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they're releasing that weeks episode on a wendsday instead of a friday.
why the feth didn’t they use those bombs on the powered down AT-ST and blast all the baddies? Hell, strafe the whole place with those huge cannons on your ship. “Nothing on this planet can take down an AT-ST” my arse. fething teddy bears did it with rope and logs on Endor.
why the feth didn’t they use those bombs on the powered down AT-ST and blast all the baddies? Hell, strafe the whole place with those huge cannons on your ship. “Nothing on this planet can take down an AT-ST” my arse. fething teddy bears did it with rope and logs on Endor.
Thought the same. I enjoyed it, but it felt like the weakest episode so far.
When
Spoiler:
He talked about leaving Baby Yoda, I was legit worried. All that asskicking that's been in this show and he's what I look forward to the most.
AduroT wrote: The red eyes were maybe a tad over the top.
Except that's exactly the sort of thing raiders would do to intimidate and cow their victims. It's the ATST equivalent of painting your face with a skull.
Thargrim wrote: That episode felt weird to me, like dissonant from the rest. When the season is finished it might end up being the one that feels off in the bunch.
I hope so.
It was like a bad reel of western tropes
Spoiler:
widow with a kid who grows attached to the hero quickly.
Town down on their luck that can't fight back until the protagonists come and train them.
Elaborate plan that uses successful first strike capability to rile the nest instead of solve the problem. (Maybe take that AT-ST?)
Overhyping the enemy who actually fold pretty easy. (The two coward greenhorns with sticks kill the warband leader).
Equally matched contemporary who buddys up with the hero long enough to give some timely quips.
Training montage with holding weapon wrong moment.
Some pretty cringe moments here fellas. Westerns done wrong/lazy.
Proceeds to lay waste to the training targets and that plot hook is never mentioned again.
I don't think that was so much a plot hook as a way of indicating to the audience why Mando would be interested in Single Mum Glowy Shrimp Farmer Lady beyond simply her looks.
I also don't think it's fair to hang the episode for Western tropes, when the reality is it's more a Kurosawa highlight reel
For me, it was probably a bit less enjoyable than it could be because there's a very similar episode of Clone Wars(based on the same source material), but that has Hondo in it and, sorry Yodling, you ain't Hondo. I can see why they decided to do the episode though - it shows the audience just how committed to The Way the titular character actually is, even passing up his own wee slice of the good life to hold to his beliefs, and it puts Mando himself squarely on a path that can only end in confronting the people behind the pursuit of the Yodling, or else they'll simply keep tracking him. That said, it wasn't quite as...elegant? as the first three. Still good stuff though.
Thargrim wrote: That episode felt weird to me, like dissonant from the rest. When the season is finished it might end up being the one that feels off in the bunch.
I hope so.
It was like a bad reel of western tropes
Spoiler:
widow with a kid who grows attached to the hero quickly.
Town down on their luck that can't fight back until the protagonists come and train them.
Elaborate plan that uses successful first strike capability to rile the nest instead of solve the problem. (Maybe take that AT-ST?)
Overhyping the enemy who actually fold pretty easy. (The two coward greenhorns with sticks kill the warband leader).
Equally matched contemporary who buddys up with the hero long enough to give some timely quips.
Training montage with holding weapon wrong moment.
Some pretty cringe moments here fellas. Westerns done wrong/lazy.
The entire series has been a string of western tropes. It executes them rather well though.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the widow shows up again in the future. She just feels like she was there for the same reason as Mando, and she seems to know a lot about his culture and customs.
Grey Templar wrote: They should have made armor out of their pots and pans as they are clearly impervious to blaster fire.
Anyway, yeah. Why didn't they just commandeer the AT-ST? It wouldn't be hard to find it and it was clearly unpowered when they arrived.
Well, if the raiders are a little bit smart the AT-ST is in the middle of their camp surrounded by guards and it's even possible for the pilot to actually sleep in it (it's big enough). Sneaking in the middle of a camp to destroy a vital target is pretty much impossible for just two persons. You will gget caught before that. That's why they only attacked the first tent they could enter (some sort of food depo). There were something like 50 raiders at the very least. They can't possibly kill that much by themselves. As for not using the ship to attack a camp hidden in the middle of the woods, visibility would have been a concern and I can get why a person would not like to risk it's only way of leaving the planet in a fight against a hidden AT-ST. which can damage or destroy it.
All in all, the episode was a huge Western cliché that had already been done in other Star Wars media, but it was still well done in my opinion.
d-usa wrote: I wouldn’t be surprised if the widow shows up again in the future. She just feels like she was there for the same reason as Mando, and she seems to know a lot about his culture and customs.
Oh... yeah, I could see that. Thanks for the perspective dose.
Also interesting, Jango Fett isn't a real Mandolorian. He took off his helmet ALOT. Which makes Boba not a real mando. Just a clone of a disgrace or a clone of a pretender wearing someone elses armor.
Lance845 wrote: Also interesting, Jango Fett isn't a real Mandolorian. He took off his helmet ALOT. Which makes Boba not a real mando. Just a clone of a disgrace or a clone of a pretender wearing someone elses armor.
Correct. This was already established but I don’t think many people realize it.
Lance845 wrote: Also interesting, Jango Fett isn't a real Mandolorian. He took off his helmet ALOT. Which makes Boba not a real mando. Just a clone of a disgrace or a clone of a pretender wearing someone elses armor.
Not all Mandalorians follow so rigorously the code by which The Mandalorian and the Tribe lives. If you watch Clone Wars and Rebels, plenty of Mandalorian remove their helmet, but even in those series Jango Fett is described as "not Mandalorian" so probably a thief or poser of some sort.
The first three episodes had me hooked.
The fourth one? Not so much.
It has been so far the weakest link in the series, and had it started off with the same tone and feel, I doubt I would have watched past the pilot.
Overall it was an all right episode but certainly not as compelling, nor well written as the first three.
I’m hoping it doesn’t follow this pattern for anymore of the series.
It needs suspense, mystery and stakes to keep me interested, and the last episode had none of that. Here’s hoping 5 is better.
Lance845 wrote: Also interesting, Jango Fett isn't a real Mandolorian. He took off his helmet ALOT. Which makes Boba not a real mando. Just a clone of a disgrace or a clone of a pretender wearing someone elses armor.
I think the premise behind the code is that it allows for the mantle to be passed around Dread Pirate Roberts style. Feels like they're setting up for him to take the helmet off at some point and someone else to put it back on.
