Star Wars street being Star Wars street, and Qimir is the one part of the show that seems to have been universally (or near) appreciated even by critics of the show.
Thargrim wrote: I'm not surprised it was cancelled, same way I wasn't surprised about Willow beng cancelled. Willow was almost like a grounded swords and sorcery type movie, with most of it's fans being a bit older now. Yet they made a show that felt more fantastical and aimed at a young audience, a baffling decision.
Yeah, but Willow season one was actually good.
This. Willow was actually fun and well done. I'm still mad about it being cancelled. Also in what way was the movie much more grounded than the show? Honest question because the Willow I grew up loving had animated furniture, entire armies being morphed into other species, talking animal wizards, entire kingdoms frozen in ice/time, giant two headed moat monsters. The grounding for a pretty fantastical world was there. I'm actually mad they pulled it from the damn platform cause I wanted to watch it all together again and didn't get to before they nabbed it.
And that's why I loath this modern age of streaming - not only can shows jump around but they can outright be pulled and you will never find them again. With the great risk that if they are pulled and tax-written-off then the originals might even be destroyed/lost to time and you are never ever getting them back
Don't get me wrong I freaking love that we are even getting a chance at shows like Willow and Dark Crystal even being made, even if they die early. But when things just VANISH or are never accessible off-stream that makes me sad
Thargrim wrote: I'm not surprised it was cancelled, same way I wasn't surprised about Willow beng cancelled. Willow was almost like a grounded swords and sorcery type movie, with most of it's fans being a bit older now. Yet they made a show that felt more fantastical and aimed at a young audience, a baffling decision.
Yeah, but Willow season one was actually good.
This. Willow was actually fun and well done. I'm still mad about it being cancelled. Also in what way was the movie much more grounded than the show? Honest question because the Willow I grew up loving had animated furniture, entire armies being morphed into other species, talking animal wizards, entire kingdoms frozen in ice/time, giant two headed moat monsters. The grounding for a pretty fantastical world was there. I'm actually mad they pulled it from the damn platform cause I wanted to watch it all together again and didn't get to before they nabbed it.
I think it has to do with the aesthetic, much more environmental cgi and fantasy environments. The monsters in the movie are very fantasy but environmentally it wasn't as over the top. The show's cost to produce ballooned over 150 million which is kinda staggering. Viewership and ratings were apparently bad enough that they removed it from streaming entirely to cut costs. It wasn't the worst thing i've ever seen but it felt 'off' to me, something about it just didn't feel like the movie. Also the characterization of Willow in the show kinda reminded me of Luke from The Last Jedi, and that is not a good thing as far as i'm concerned. Actually now that I just googled it, I see headlines that seem to indicate that the influence from TLJ was intentional. Just more deconstruction of peoples childhood heroes is what I see.
I absolutely didn't get the Luke vibe from Willow. But it's been over a year since I watched it and because it got pulled from streaming I'm not able to watch it at all :(
Good to have a date for season two. I'm going to watch season one again closer to the time. Haven't gotten around to it yet, even though it's perpetually on my to do list...
Overread wrote: Dark Crystal even being made, even if they die early. But when things just VANISH or are never accessible off-stream that makes me sad
What was Dark Crystal like? We loved the film as kids.
I heard it was good but sadly I don't have netflix
It was very good. A real nice lead up to what would set the stage for the beginning of the movie. It dose have a plot problem in that we know how it has to end. The Gelflings of the movie are the last of the Gelflings. So.... a whole cast of characters that have to die eventually in the Skesis genocide of them. The show doesn't get that far. It follows a pretty typical heroes journey before it got canceled. It would have been interesting seeing how they attempted to walk that line of heroes we care about but have to fail.
I liked the show but didn’t like the mix of CG and puppets. The CG was obviously CG and the puppets were obviously puppets and either alone would have been totally fine but it felt too jarring to me when they suddenly switched from one to the other or had both on the screen at the same time.
The early unjustified cancellation of shows, and a complete lack of editorial standards when it comes to “documentaries”, are why I don’t want anything to do with Netflix.
Awful, awful platform.
It won’t cough up for more quality shows, but will happily pay Graham Hancock to spout absolute, entirely unsubstantiated, rooted in racism but I’m not convinced the man himself is therefore racist, guff.
In theory that might have improved with further seasons as they'd have done the bulk of ground work for puppets for season 1 and then could improve the cgi with the budget in further ones. That's the big crime to me with this cancellation. SO much of it was entirely unique puppet creation and work.
The amount that must have gone into getting it all ready to run was likely huge and then they just abandoned it after one season.
It won’t cough up for more quality shows, but will happily pay Graham Hancock to spout absolute, entirely unsubstantiated, rooted in racism but I’m not convinced the man himself is therefore racist, guff.
I don't think he's racist.
I do think he knows a lot of the stuff he postulates is rooted in old racist thinking (and is popular still in racist circles) and just doesn't care. Graham Hancock is like a modern Heinrich Schliemann. And by that I mean he's a self-aggrandizer who stalks actual academia and steals the bits of it he finds usual for building up his own image. Which is ironic, because he'll insinuate archeologists are dogmatic and unwilling to change, and then he'll steal their work to promote his own brand despite contributing nothing to it. The biggest problem with Hancock isn't even his ideas. It's the way he blows smoke up people's asses, fabricates a fanciful representation of what scholars do, think, and say, and twists all of it to make himself seem the visionary at the expense of the people really doing the work. This is notably everything the Schliemann did in building his public reputation; misrepresent the field, steal actual science from others, repackage it into his own bs, and falsely claim that he was 'right all along.'
I don't think Hancock is racist. I think he just doesn't care and he's only better than Schliemann by the virtue that he hasn't gone to any irreplaceable archeological sites and blown them up with dynamite. Yet.
EDIT: Then again, Schliemann has a leg up on Hancock, since he actually went out and tried to get gak done but I don't want to give Hancock any ideas. He does enough damage as it is.
It’s just disappointing that it’s given airtime with absolutely no in-show criticism.
At the end of the day it doesn’t take long at all to find out just how much testicles he’s talking. And at least two YouTubers I enjoy (Miniminuteman and History with Kayleigh) did substantial takedowns of the entire show, episode by episode.
But that Netflix doesn’t seem to host such a counter argument, to me, speaks volumes.
The damnedest things? Quite often, the scientific consensus on the sites is way more interesting than “Atlantis doneded it”
Just finished rewatching Andor... It's a slow burn, but oy! that last episode.
Something that I did notice this time through - there's been some discussion online about the intro starting with a simple instrument and building each episode until it's a full orchestra for the final ep. But I also spotted this time through that when you click 'skip intro' on D+, it skips the opening Star Wars helmet intro, but leaves that musical Andor intro.
Had also missed the first time through that they sidestep some of the ickyness of Mon Mothma trading her daughter's betrothal for favours by having the daughter actually more keen on the traditional Chandrilan customs than her mother... Dumping hubby in the deep end to cover up the financial stuff is still cold, though
I have yet to watch Andor again. I picked up on Mini Mothma being the one who was leaning hard into tradition the first time around. I thought that was a) her giving Mom Mothma a hard time because teenager, and b) because Mon is already plenty busy with her criminal activities and doesn't need private problems on top of that, so for the sake of drama that is of course what she gets.
Never occurred to me to think of it as real life appeasement.
Rewatching Ahsoka and it really hits hard how the theme here (and the sequel trilogy) is how the good guys won but didn't close the deal and had to face the bad guys again.
This is one of those times where it's fun to remind ourselves that the "good guys" in the original trilogy are a cultist, a smuggler, a politician and a sore loser. That's usually the bad guy cast in other movies.
Something that I did notice this time through - there's been some discussion online about the intro starting with a simple instrument and building each episode until it's a full orchestra for the final ep. But I also spotted this time through that when you click 'skip intro' on D+, it skips the opening Star Wars helmet intro, but leaves that musical Andor intro.
Yep, you can also layer all of the intros over another and they form one cohesive piece. The attention to detail in all elements of Andor's production was really good. Everything is working towards the story and themes, building on them, tying them together via musical motifs and visual language.
Gert wrote: Alternatively, they're an elderly knight, a rogue, a princess, and a farmboy with dreams. So the good guy cast in other movies.
Everything is all about perspective.
Sure. To a degree. At least as far back as the prequel trilogy we got to see what the leadership of the Alliance to Restore the Plutocracy Formally Known as the Galactic Republic means to bring back, and following material only fleshed out that the political leadership is basically pining for the good old days. They just want the thing they lost back, preferably the way it was. In other words, they want to bring the thing that already failed once back and not even make the necessary changes to solve the problems of a galaxy.that has changed dramatically in the meantime.
That doesn't necessarily reflect back on every single character, but it does encourage the question if the simple good versus evil struggle Star Wars presents on the surfaces is actually that simple. If it's just good versus evil, the good guys have to win and live happily ever after (with an option for sequels, because money). The Empire is cast down and the New Republic is the utopia it was promised to be (at least for a while, because sequels, because money). If it's only "good" versus evil and the New Republic is a bust from the start, there's a lot of fun in looking at the failings of the "good" characters and see how those failings translate into unfortunate conditions even in victory. And ideally coming to the realization that one might have seen it coming,
So yeah, maybe the charming rogue tips well, but he's still a smuggler and murderer. Great hire if you want to do some smuggling and murdering. Wouldn't be my first choice for statesman, though.
...
Also you got the cast wrong by bringing the compulsive liar into it. You should have your arm ripped out for that insult.
Geifer wrote: I have yet to watch Andor again. I picked up on Mini Mothma being the one who was leaning hard into tradition the first time around. I thought that was a) her giving Mom Mothma a hard time because teenager, and b) because Mon is already plenty busy with her criminal activities and doesn't need private problems on top of that, so for the sake of drama that is of course what she gets.
Never occurred to me to think of it as real life appeasement.
I think that's a part of what makes it really clever writing... Selling the daughter for favours against her will would have made Mon too unlikeable a character, I think. But having the daughter liking the idea more than she does escapes that trap, and that happening because she's embracing tradition to push back against the elder generation absolutely works.
While the show overall is a bit slow for my tastes, it's undeniably well crafted.
I think my favourite “secret” about Star Wars is that, ultimately?
The Separatists were the ones who won.
Post-Empire, all members of the New Republic were so entirely voluntarily. And so those who originally sought to breakaway via the CIS did so - and both enjoyed relative peace as a result, so far as we’ve seen.
Geifer wrote:This is one of those times where it's fun to remind ourselves that the "good guys" in the original trilogy are a cultist, a smuggler, a politician and a sore loser. That's usually the bad guy cast in other movies.
Gert wrote:Alternatively, they're an elderly knight, a rogue, a princess, and a farmboy with dreams. So the good guy cast in other movies.
Everything is all about perspective.
A well-written story of someone suffering under the Republic and choosing both the Empire and then later the Imperial Remanent/First Order would be kind of awesome.
Well-written being the tough part.
The fanatics screaming "Long Live the Empire" as they do suicidal things are not it.
Yeah, there's potential there for an interesting character. But to be fair, there's a ton of reasons why the Imperial Remnant and First Order fanatics are front and center. Between the initial civil unrest and the increasing number of mining disasters during the Empire's rule and afterwards, it becomes increasingly hard for moderates to hold significant roles. And I suspect most people interested in Star Wars don't particularly care to watch or read about the exciting daily challenges of Janitor Joe.
It would definitely take great care to toe the line between going along with a lot of dodgy stuff and still making the character sympathetic.
Geifer wrote: Sure. To a degree. At least as far back as the prequel trilogy we got to see what the leadership of the Alliance to Restore the Plutocracy Formally Known as the Galactic Republic means to bring back, and following material only fleshed out that the political leadership is basically pining for the good old days. They just want the thing they lost back, preferably the way it was. In other words, they want to bring the thing that already failed once back and not even make the necessary changes to solve the problems of a galaxy.that has changed dramatically in the meantime.
The Republic failed because Palpatine accelerated its demise to place himself in a position of power. Take him out of the situation, and the crisis with Valorum being viewed as in the pockets of the banks and bureaucrats never happens. The problem with The Phantom Menace is that it looks at politics from the vaguest angle and doesn't give you the time to understand that "Oh, wait, this guy who's saying everyone is corrupt but me" might not have the best of intentions.
And if you rightly remember at the start of A New Hope, the Emperor gets rid of the last vestiges of any representation the people of the galaxy had in the political sphere. As this period is expanded upon with the likes of Andor, Rebels, and other media we know the Emperor has been slowly eroding the power of the Senate so that local Imperial officials can take control of more and more offices and duties.
Democracy is messy but it's always superior to fascism.
So yeah, maybe the charming rogue tips well, but he's still a smuggler and murderer. Great hire if you want to do some smuggling and murdering. Wouldn't be my first choice for statesman, though.
Good thing Han never became a Senator and was a soldier instead who then left to go be a smuggler again when the Rebellion became the New Republic.
Also you got the cast wrong by bringing the compulsive liar into it. You should have your arm ripped out for that insult.
And on the dissolution of the Senate? Grand Moff Tarkin said it himself “Fear. Fear of this battlestation will keep the local systems in line”.
Hence the decision to obliterate Alderaan, as a demonstration not just of the station’s potential, but now willing to use it The Empire was.
Had Leia and Obi-Wan’s mission failed? That probably would’ve been it. No technical readout of the Death Star, and you’ve basically no chance of taking it out. It’s too big, too powerful, and even if you could attrition it? It’s spending that time wrecking entire planets.
But…it didn’t. And post-Alderaan, Palpatine’s mask was off for all and sundry to see. The appealing lie of “bUt ItS fOr SeCuRiTy” fell away, and the overall Rebellion spread.
This was further compounded by so much Clone Wars era war materiel lying around. Not necessarily Capital Ships, crewing one can be prohibitive. But those Capital scale class weapons? Those you can work work.
With the Death Star and the Imperial Navy? Not so much of a problem on account of “you, your paltry band and your stupid home worlds all go squish now”.
Sans Death Star, and in the face of the Alliance’s favoured hit and run tactics? A much more significant issue.
We see this in Rogue One, where (granted not unsupported) a squadron of clapped out Y-Wings and a Hammerhead Corvette (also antiquated as a battleship) take out not one, but two Imperial Star Destroyers.
And those tactics could be repeated outside of a battle.
Send in an initial A-Wing or other sensor laden craft to scope out what’s around. Use that info to inform your risk/reward appetite, factoring in that you have to assume reinforcements will arrive sooner or later. If you think you can get away with it? Jump in, mess some stuff up, and get back out again.
And that worked well enough, often enough? That even the Imperial Navy began to become somewhat stretched.
In the face of all three eras (Clone Wars, Early-Mid Empire, Galactic Civil War), Mon Mothma’s drive to disarm does make sense. The Galaxy as a whole was exhausted from a couple of generations of war. You can’t just declare yourself the new government, take over all the former government’s weapons of intimidation, and still convince everyone you’re any different to the old boss.
Which in turn, at least to me and I’ll my best to convince you, Palpatine’s other plan (First and Final Orders) do make sense.
Accept your initial defeat, slink off into the shadows. Let everyone rest easy, begin to disarm, whilst you’re using the resources you’d squirreled away over your 20 or so years of Absolute Power to massively rearm - a Death Star on every doorstep, and too few organised forces to properly stop you once its underway.
That both plans had crucial fulcrums I don’t agree as signs of bad plans. Not when you look at how much the goodies had to do to tip it their way (get Death Star plans, analyse them, find the weakness, and exploit it, all in a very limited timeframe. Final Order? Find out where you are to begin with*, find there way there, discover just what you’ve got in store**, and either come with, or go get, enough ships to stop your fleet before it can depart and spread out***
Was it presented well in the film? No. Not really. But I’ve thought about it for a while, and I’m happy it does make sense overall.
*this is why you don’t start blowing your own trumpet until your ready
**no, seriously Sheev. Shut yer puss
***I bloody told you to keep shtum, see? You’ve ruined it now you moustache twirling egomaniacal loony.
The Death Star is the ultimate Nuclear Weapon of the Starwars setting. Couple it to a ruler willing to use it without reservation and to the fact that its a unique technology that requires phenomenal investment most other factions can't achieve and you've got yourself an ultimate weapon of fear.
Deploy a few of them; fire at a few key targets and you've got a system that could prevent uprisings and shatter the Rebellion without having to fight hit-and-run tactics.
In the end the Rebellion had to step up a gear to win; they had to go to large fleet engagements to actually win against the Imperium; if the Deathstar had not been taken down then many allies and potential allies for the rebel forces would have vanished. It's better to live under Imperial Rule than be obliterated; and even if the government of worlds might join the Alliance; any hint to their population could have an uprising.
The idea of the Death Star program makes sense. By simply existing it squashes a lot of potential rebellion and basically pushes it into the fringes of extremist terrorist groups. Basically things that Stormtroopers can deal with at the local level.
Basically if the program had worked and not been taken out the only real way to rise up would have been from within the Imperial military itself.
Because local system rulers wouldn't want to be targeted and the Emperor would likely have gone down a pathway similar to Dune - pit them against each other so that they are so focused on internal politics and gains that they don't see the big picture of uniting together against the Emperor.
That's something the Emperor was already doing as well.
Imperial officers would rat each other out or put others in the position to take the fall for things.
It's why so many competent officers ended up getting terrible postings or front-line duty and then dying to Rebels.
Nobody who was actually good at their job ever lasted long in the Empire because politics always came into play or they realised (rightfully so) that the Empire was actually the bad guys once they got into the real nitty gritty of it all.
It’s also part of the New Republic’s Folly that it was assumed “true believers” were relatively few in number, with everyone else Just Following Orders and victims of propaganda.
Not so much in the ranks of the now former Imperial Military, but among now returned Senators/new Senators.
We see this in Ahsoka, where we see a resistance to investigating Thrawn’s return. And in The Mandalorian, where resources to investigate Moff Gideon’s shenanigans are denied.
That not solely down to wishful thinking, Dewey eyed, woolly headed liberal thinking (though that inevitably played a part), but bad faith actors with the power and position to stymie such things.
Which leads to my favourite scene, where C-3PO comes in, confirming Senator Organa most definitely, 100%, did indeed give Hera Syndulla authority to act, and if you don’t like it, she’d be glad to have a wee word with you.
Honestly I think one of the downsides of the prequels is that we never really got enough time for the Empire to be the Empire long enough. It basically starts when Luke is born and that's a pitiful amount of time for the whole structure of the Empire - on a galactic scale - to really get going.
They should have done some "Anakin was already over 100 when it fathered Luke" kind of deal so that we could have had him fight in the Clone Wars and then have a long long span of time for the Empire to really get going; to have reached as far as Tatooine and had enough influence that someone like Luke would see the Empire as a good thing and a normal thing.
I do agree the prequels wasted a lot of time. The Phantom Menace basically boils down to “The Jedi believed the Sith extinct, boy were they wrong and now it’s causing all sorts of issues”, for instance. And yeah, I’d have liked some early Empire shenanigans to see.
But, we do have oodles and oodles of back-fill media to provide that. Clone Wars, Rebels, Andor and Rogue One are all really solid explorations of the two pre-OT eras. Not to mention a whole bunch of novels, which I’ve not personally read but have heard positive things about.
I do agree the prequels wasted a lot of time. The Phantom Menace basically boils down to “The Jedi believed the Sith extinct, boy were they wrong and now it’s causing all sorts of issues”, for instance. And yeah, I’d have liked some early Empire shenanigans to see.
But, we do have oodles and oodles of back-fill media to provide that. Clone Wars, Rebels, Andor and Rogue One are all really solid explorations of the two pre-OT eras. Not to mention a whole bunch of novels, which I’ve not personally read but have heard positive things about.
It's not so much that we can't make stories about it; its that by the time of Luke's story the Empire is clearly very well established and mature on a Galactic Scale. That's my main issue in timing. 20odd years isn't really that long when you spread things out over a whole Galaxy. Even with Hyperspeed, local training and all its a tiny amount of time. Even smaller when you consider that that time has to also include the Empire not just consolidating and taking over all of the Old Republic; but also expanding it considerably to include worlds like Tatooine.
Now granted the Empire doesn't have to invade to take over, but you do get that sense that there just wasn't enough time for it to really get into gear.
It's a timespan that I'd be totally happy with on a planetary scale - 20years would be more than enough in the real world for a major change in power and attitudes. But on a Galactic I feel like its not quite enough time to really settle enough qualms and problems; to truly iron out the aftershock of the Clone Wars and all to the point where the Rebellion is a handful of fighters (on a Galactic scale).
It's also not enough time to really forget the Jedi. Even though its established they are dwindling in the Prequels they are still clearly heard about enough that "Mind Tricks don't work on me, only Money" is something a random junkdealer on the farthest end of the universe on a world not even in the Republic, can quip about. Someone like Han would have grown up during the Republic or just at the very tail end of it; meanwhile most of the more mature characters in the setting will have grown up within the Republic. Jedi would be more than just tall tales and stories.
Again give the Empire 100 or 200 years of running and you've much more time and generations for things to establish and change.
It wasn’t a wholly new organisation though. At first, it was a rebranding of a now victorious civilisation, and controlled the banking industry completely.
So it already had a significant military industry going, and would’ve been able to spin the loyalty from the Clone Wars into, at least initially “let’s stop those wascally Separatists from ever being a bother again”.
And because Palpatine had puppeted both (something I’m not sure ever really came to light? I’m probably forgetting something), he’d made damned sure there was plenty Separatists atrocities to carry that sentiment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Jedi being forgotten is perhaps overstated though. The only person we really see asking “wots a Jedi, precious” is Han.
Others certainly seem familiar, down to Bib Fortuna. And so Han is the outlier?
It also doesn't really take that long for an authoritarian state and the apparatus of control and surveillance to establish itself, especially when said state already has complete control and loyalty over the standing armed forces.
From Hitler leaving prison to the Enabling Act giving him complete control over the entire government was 9 years, for example. Within 6 years after that the German warmachine ramped up to the point it was able to rearm and conquer mainland western and eastern europe.
Palpatine already had a fully functional war economy at the point he seized complete control. He already had a fully mobilised, trained and tested army and navy. He had no organised opposition against military expansion as he had assassinated the leaders of the separatist forces etc. Starting from that point? Expansion of the Empire was very feasible within a short time, especially when internal security can be initially bolstered by private contract security as we initially see on Ferrix in Andor.
It's also really important to remember the power the Common Man has in this.
Palpatine ended the war which was started by the Jedi who went on an unsanctioned assassination mission against those who would become the leaders of the CIS.
He loves democracy, he loves the Republic, it just so happened that the crisis never ended then the Jedi tried to kill the most popular Supreme Chancellor in recent history.
The Senate was behind him and the masses of the galaxy were finally free from war.
It's what Bad Batch does so well IMO with the transition from the Republic to the Empire.
"Hey Citizen, come get your new Government ID and your new money from the new Government Bank which will keep your money safe. Hey, why don't you join the Stormtrooper Corps or the Imperial Navy to fight pirates and keep your worlds safe? It's you, the people, who make the Empire a safer place."
For a lot of people, the Empire was a good change until it wasn't. Such is the lure of fascism.
The Republic started becoming the Empire the moment Palpatine was elected. It's formal transition didn't happen until Luke was born, but the war had already done the bulk of the redecorating.
Granted, the original timeline had the Empire existing for about 10-20 more years before RotS tied it explicitly to the birth of the twins. I definitely think 30-40 years works better, but 20 years really is a longer time than people give it credit for. It's just hard to appreciate as kids when you don't have a concept of time and you've grown up on stories where 1000 years pass and society doesn't change a bit.
I've long maintained that the big mistake of the prequels is young Anakin and not starting the Clone Wars right there. The whole thing works better if you make Anakin closer to Luke's age as a hotshot podracer, but ultimately the decision to deploy the Clones to save Naboo starts the war.
That lets the second movie end with Dooku's death and the end of the war and a third movie where Anakin is torn between the glory of being a war hero who "saved" the galaxy and his loved ones increasingly suspicious behavior as Palpatine refuses to relinquish power. The worst thing about the prequels has always been how well the broad strokes work. The first one doesn't even really waste time; it just requires reestablishing Anakin, causing the second movie to be a pretty big waste of time.
I always had similar issues; Anakin should have been a teenager. It makes more sense of his relationship with Amedala and why he would be too old for training, as well as tying in better with Luke in the original trilogy.
I always thought that the 2nd prequel should have ended with the creation of the Empire, as it would reflect the tone from ESB. The third one could then show Vader actually hunting down the Jedi (as he is described doing) and end with the formation/first actions of the Alliance as a sense of hope (essentially what we eventually got as Rogue One).
Jadenim wrote: I always had similar issues; Anakin should have been a teenager. It makes more sense of his relationship with Amedala and why he would be too old for training, as well as tying in better with Luke in the original trilogy.
I mean, there was no particular reason that Anakin had to be too old for his training. The whole thing with his mother could have been left out entirely, with Anakin recruited as normal and his attachment issues just based on his relationship with Amidala.
Although I do also wonder how things would have played out differently throughout the series if Lucas had stuck with Anakin and Vader being two different people...
And you can drop the whole "chosen one prophecy" that comes out of nowhere and does nothing to improve the story and in fact detracts from it by removing the free will from Vader's redemption if prophecies are in fact real in Star Wars.
But are prophecies actually real? You can see the future through the Force, which I believe Yoda says is notoriously hard to interpret right. The will of the Force is a thing, too. But I'm not sure a prophecy has actually been used as a plot device and convincingly been proven true. I took that to be an extension of Jedi mysticism. If they already believe that the Force has a will (that favors the Jedi, of course), believing in prophecies as particularly stable and long lasting manifestations of that will isn't a stretch. My take on this has always been that the prophecy of the chosen one is just there to give Qui-Gon the conviction to go against doctrine and the express order of the Jedi council without any need to follow through and show if the prophecy plays out in the end. It's plausible as a personal belief of a character and did its job when it was needed or convenient to have.
You're some nobody slave on a backwater world when a magic space knight comes along and says he thinks you'll save the galaxy.
You think it's pretty cool but then you get out into the galaxy and things aren't great.
Pressure builds, you fall in love (which you aren't supposed to do) and make attachments (also not allowed) so the whole "Saving the galaxy" thing becomes very personal, very quickly which adds even more pressure.
The two most important people (who aren't your wife) are pulling you in different directions telling you that this thing needs to be done to "Save the galaxy".
No wonder Anakin snapped and murdered a bunch of people dude had serious trauma and no therapy.
Indeed, I don't think it came through as much as it should; but the Jedi Council basically put on his shoulders the "here you're going to solve all our problems". They also weren't too shy about telling him or revealing it from what I recall.
There's also the fact that he was separated from his home for far too long. Jedi training was basically monastic style. Which is likely a big part of why training had to start at such a young age. Basically Jedi had to replace your real family so starting super young allowed that to happen. Anakin was older; he had an established family and whilst he was a slave its clear that Watto was a generally decent owner and Anakins life was not extreme-horrible-bad.
So yeah homesickness; trauma; being thrust into multiple major conflicts that basically were nothing to do with him; insane pressure to save everyone etc... Oh and then his mother dies an horrific death whilst he's away. A death that was totally avoidable - indeed her life up to that point could have been changed dramatically for the better with a pitiful investment of resources from the Jedi Council - who didn't do it.
It's no wonder the Emperor could twist and turn him; he was about the only person in Anakin's life who was listening to him and reinforcing/supporting and praising him up.
Lets not forget whilst people fixate on Anakin killing the young Jedi, they were not the first children he killed. His attack on the Sandpeople also resulted in the death of their entire group, women and children included. I think one failing is that we don't see enough of the Clone Wars - we see basically the start and the end, but not the stress of war in the middle. We also see it almost entirely in a positive action sequence rather then the darkness of actual war. If we'd seen more "droids wiped out whole settlements of people you befriended last week" I think that might have helped reinforce the war-time trauma that Anakin was building up.
That last point is an interesting one. We have a lot of trouble in the real world with PTSD dehumanising people and that is an effective way to explain what’s happening to Anakin. He becomes so bitter and twisted by war that he literally cannot see right from wrong.
But you’d need films that feel more like Apocalypse Now than Star Wars, which is difficult to do on a family friendly rating!
Agreed - that said I think you could do it. The issue is you have to shift the focus. Right now in SW the battles are nearly always armies vs armies. Clone Wars even dehumanises because its clones VS robots.
What you honestly see very little of is armies vs civilians. We get occupation scenes after armies have done their battles; but we don't really see much of actual civilian war. In fact I think the only time we really see it is at the very start of the 7th film and even that is a touch more military vs rebels.
I think if we'd had some big tearjerker scenes of Anakin making friends with natives; defending them and then failing it might have helped. You don't even have to show the fight itself. After-effects just like when Luke came home to find his Uncle and Aunt killed can carry the message really well.
I think that side of war being shown more and more to him in a build up would have really helped show how he changed. How the death of his mother twisted him to do the horrific acts he'd seen done to others
Gert wrote: I think the "Chosen One" angle is good.
You're some nobody slave on a backwater world when a magic space knight comes along and says he thinks you'll save the galaxy.
You think it's pretty cool but then you get out into the galaxy and things aren't great.
Pressure builds, you fall in love (which you aren't supposed to do) and make attachments (also not allowed) so the whole "Saving the galaxy" thing becomes very personal, very quickly which adds even more pressure.
The two most important people (who aren't your wife) are pulling you in different directions telling you that this thing needs to be done to "Save the galaxy".
No wonder Anakin snapped and murdered a bunch of people dude had serious trauma and no therapy.
And I'd argue that what you laid out can be done entirely without a chosen one prophecy which saves you from awkward questions like "Who prophesised a chosen one in the first place?"
"You have an incredible gift, and can use that gift to help others" works absolutely fine for getting Anakin into the Jedi, and also directly ties into his actual personal character arc which the vague prophecy does not. Anakin doesn't fall because of the prophecy, he falls because he is trying to find a way to help someone he cares about and that is used to manipulate him. You don't even need to drop Anakin being a prodigy and given far too much pressure and responsibility because of that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: But are prophecies actually real? You can see the future through the Force, which I believe Yoda says is notoriously hard to interpret right. The will of the Force is a thing, too. But I'm not sure a prophecy has actually been used as a plot device and convincingly been proven true. I took that to be an extension of Jedi mysticism. If they already believe that the Force has a will (that favors the Jedi, of course), believing in prophecies as particularly stable and long lasting manifestations of that will isn't a stretch. My take on this has always been that the prophecy of the chosen one is just there to give Qui-Gon the conviction to go against doctrine and the express order of the Jedi council without any need to follow through and show if the prophecy plays out in the end. It's plausible as a personal belief of a character and did its job when it was needed or convenient to have.
I feel this just strengthens my point. Why would the Jedi treat a really vague prophecy, from who knows where and when, as something to believe when they know from first hand experience that attempting to interpret the future is incredibly hard? Why would you believe that one person would result in balancing the force, which is something that is created by and connects all living things in the galaxy?
And this is then shown throughout the rest of the films where everyone who tries to see into the future gets it wrong. Yoda thought Luke going to Cloud City would be disastrous but it actually worked out for the best as Luke learning about his father then was much better than if he had found out when facing the Emperor and Vader together. And then the Emperor believes that he is invincible due to what he has foreseen over Endor and we know how that works out for him.
And this is then shown throughout the rest of the films where everyone who tries to see into the future gets it wrong. Yoda thought Luke going to Cloud City would be disastrous but it actually worked out for the best as Luke learning about his father then was much better than if he had found out when facing the Emperor and Vader together. And then the Emperor believes that he is invincible due to what he has foreseen over Endor and we know how that works out for him.
Maybe they have a lot of confirmation bias... or the experience gives a feeling of righteousness and chosen by God that leads to total certainty.
There's a lot of odd things in the prequels that just didn't work. It didn't help that the EU had built up a lot of ideas that didn't end up lining up with George's view of things. Everyone focuses on the prophecy, but the bigger dropped subplot there is the Jedi losing their powers.
A lot of it also comes from George having a different take on the Force than what a lot of the gamefication of Star Wars had developed. He never thought of it as a Light Side. Just the Balanced Force and its Dark Side that upsets its natural state. Granted, he also saw it as this body hopping evil microorganism, so its not like there weren't things that were bound to be a problem one way or another.
Yoda was overly cautious - but that’s coming from his accrued wisdom over not trusting future visions, and knowing the specific danger to Luke, particularly given Luke is barely a neophyte Jedi at that point.
Palpatine was simply overconfident, and not entirely without reason. Consider the events that lead to Endor, and just how many went his way, or he was at least able to turn to his direct benefit.
Seems the sensible thing to do is let such visions inform your plan of action, but not entirely define it.
In other news, just saw Skeleton Crew is debuting on 2 December, so fairly certain it’s been slightly brought forward.
And this is then shown throughout the rest of the films where everyone who tries to see into the future gets it wrong. Yoda thought Luke going to Cloud City would be disastrous but it actually worked out for the best as Luke learning about his father then was much better than if he had found out when facing the Emperor and Vader together. And then the Emperor believes that he is invincible due to what he has foreseen over Endor and we know how that works out for him.
Maybe they have a lot of confirmation bias... or the experience gives a feeling of righteousness and chosen by God that leads to total certainty.
Honestly, the Force is just a troll. It basically only gives people visions that lead to their ruin. It's almost malicious in that regard and one of the few things its really consistent about.
LunarSol wrote: Honestly, the Force is just a troll. It basically only gives people visions that lead to their ruin. It's almost malicious in that regard and one of the few things its really consistent about.
The trouble with the Jedi and the Sith is they try to make The Force their own.
Though the Mortis episodes of the Clone Wars are really, really odd (and for me don’t quite work) they do show it has some kind of consciousness, and is in itself kinda neutral. It’s not good, it’s not evil, it just is.
And it does seem when one or other extreme tried to claim dominance, The Force messes back.
Which could mean Anakin was intended to destroy both Sith and Jedi, letting The Force go back to simply being.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The trouble with the Jedi and the Sith is they try to make The Force their own.
Though the Mortis episodes of the Clone Wars are really, really odd (and for me don’t quite work) they do show it has some kind of consciousness, and is in itself kinda neutral. It’s not good, it’s not evil, it just is.
And it does seem when one or other extreme tried to claim dominance, The Force messes back.
Which could mean Anakin was intended to destroy both Sith and Jedi, letting The Force go back to simply being.
So that was not George's intention at all. He's stated multiple times that his view of things is that there's the Force which is a state of Balance and the Dark Side that disrupts that Balance. The prophecy is about Anakin destroying the Dark Side. That is all the man who put the prophecy into the movie he made intended. Everything else is other authors trying to draw something more out of it because, like so many things in Star Wars, it wasn't really given a satisfying explanation or resolution. Many, many authors have tried to reinterpret the Force and trying to see them all as a consistent or coherent ruleset is a losing battle.
LunarSol wrote: Honestly, the Force is just a troll. It basically only gives people visions that lead to their ruin. It's almost malicious in that regard and one of the few things its really consistent about.
Well, that is what happens when one listens to Tzeentch
Lance845 wrote: Thats all fair but the Author is Dead. What George intended also oncluded the Whills. It just doesn't matter.
The author may be dead, but it's also a fictional story without an objective reality backing it up. You can invent new truths for it, but you can't discern facts from the works of multiple authors the way a detective would. The majority of Star Wars at this point is authors creating their own explanations to justify things that originally had no meaning or answer. Cross referencing one author's rules with those of another doesn't give you any insight because those rules aren't based on anything tangible. Star Wars just isn't built on a foundation like that. You can wish for things to work a certain way, but trying to prove a theory based on existing material assumes a level of consistency that the series has just never actually had.
The Force as a whole representing balance and there being what's considered a light side to it isn't mutually exclusive, especially if your focus is on the Jedi. The Jedi eschew parts of the Force and thereby skew things away from its complete, balanced state. No matter how much you think the prophesy is about destroying dark side users, individually and institutionally the Jedi should be no less a target of an event that is meant to return balance. It's just a logical byproduct of what Lucas put in the movies.
It certainly can. It can be anything. That's the whole issue with malleable fiction. I just think arguing about the abandoned prophecy subplot doesn't accomplish much because we know the intentions of the man who wrote it into the script. There's no hidden truth to it. It's just a bad plot point that didn't work.
Lance845 wrote: Thats all fair but the Author is Dead. What George intended also oncluded the Whills. It just doesn't matter.
The author may be dead, but it's also a fictional story without an objective reality backing it up. You can invent new truths for it, but you can't discern facts from the works of multiple authors the way a detective would. The majority of Star Wars at this point is authors creating their own explanations to justify things that originally had no meaning or answer. Cross referencing one author's rules with those of another doesn't give you any insight because those rules aren't based on anything tangible. Star Wars just isn't built on a foundation like that. You can wish for things to work a certain way, but trying to prove a theory based on existing material assumes a level of consistency that the series has just never actually had.
Agreed. Which is why the owners of the property just say what is and is not "canon".
That was George before. Or really the people he put in charge of maintaining the canon (with it's many tiers). But now that's Disney. What George intended has even less to do with anything now then it did in the past.
All I am saying is that Georges intent means basically nothing except as an interesting foot note for trivia nights.
Opening scene is fantastic! Something we’ve not seen in live action to date, and neatly illustrating that even though written for a younger audience, that doesn’t mean everyone plays nice.
Also getting initial Goonies vibes.
Right, first episode down and I really enjoyed it. I had feared the child cast would be annoying, as they so often are. But they’re alright. And we get some interesting new starship designs which is always a win in my book. And the return of some classic alien designs (Gran, Ishi Tib, Shistavanen).
Very much made in the mould of classic kids adventure shows.
It's good fun so far. There's definitely plenty there for older audiences.
I do like how many alien species make an appearance. Great to see that in live action stuff. And boy, that Ishi Tib is ded 'ard.
Also:
Spoiler:
New Republic security, you say? Pie rats, you say? I bet somebody wished for a strong, capable military to keep law and order all over on his way to the airlock.
In terms of the tone? It’s not Battle for Endor kid friendly, and because the Gorax and its pet giant spider scared the crap out of me as a little’un, also less so than Caravan of Courage.
It’s also a bit more violent in places than A New Hope. Though given Ponda Baba’s arm, perhaps not.
So maybe not instantly suitable for the very young.
Upside is it is just a couple of scenes of violence thus far, and it does remain Star Warsy. Even so, parents might want to watch it first and decide for themselves to decide suitability for particularly young ‘uns.
And yes. That Ishi Tib is rock.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also time for some spoiler considerations…
Spoiler:
So, the kids’ home planet is a mythical treasure planet, eh? And we have to assume SM-33’s former crew mates had been on a mission to find it.
And they were paying in Republic Credits. Not New Republic. Old Republic. And it has some kind of barrier, which I presume played some role in the ship stacking it in the first place.
What’s going on there then, I wonder! Could it be a secret enclave of some kind which somehow avoided the Clone Wars and that onward? Very intriguing.
Well, it does have a 12+ rating around here, and I can see why. Some of the violence is kept just off screen, but there's still plenty that's shown. Also some fairly dark themes, I suppose. Plus a few sets that are on the creepy side. And of course...
Spoiler:
... actual skeletons. Who knew Skeleton Crew was going to be so literal.
So, the kids’ home planet is a mythical treasure planet, eh? And we have to assume SM-33’s former crew mates had been on a mission to find it.
And they were paying in Republic Credits. Not New Republic. Old Republic. And it has some kind of barrier, which I presume played some role in the ship stacking it in the first place.
What’s going on there then, I wonder! Could it be a secret enclave of some kind which somehow avoided the Clone Wars and that onward? Very intriguing.
On the first point...
Spoiler:
... I think it's more a case of one or more of the crew finding the location and setting course. Then there's dissent over whether they should keep the location and expected booty for themselves on one side and dutifully reporting their findings to their pirate lord on the other. Pointy complications ensue and it's up to the autopilot to kinda sorta save the day.
On the planet...
Spoiler:
... the way they live, Jedi comics and all, it very much looks to me like they aren't even aware of the Clone Wars and later developments. Best guess at this time, whatever the barrier is, it's probably an expected phenomenon that keeps the world isolated for long stretches of time. They do have ties with the Republic, so presumably there is at least some exchange from time to time. But so rarely people can grow up without ever seeing the stars and, literally, for empires to rise and fall without them ever knowing.
There are indeed no stars in the night sky. There seems to be an aurora of some kind, and a grid pattern of red dots. Possibly a planet scale cloaking field? It can’t be a regular shield, otherwise the ship would’ve crashed into it, as we see in Rogue One.
And the references there are all Republic, as well as the currency.
There are indeed no stars in the night sky. There seems to be an aurora of some kind, and a grid pattern of red dots. Possibly a planet scale cloaking field? It can’t be a regular shield, otherwise the ship would’ve crashed into it, as we see in Rogue One.
And the references there are all Republic, as well as the currency.
Definitely intrigued to find out more!
Spoiler:
There is something shifty going on with these guys. Strict rules. implied rigid societal order, restricted zones. We only see low level security, which is all droids, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's no organic oversight.
That they're cut off from the rest of the galaxy is only half the mystery.
The cars and buses not being regular speeders, as they’d mounted on slot tracks, like Scaletrix. Which is a nice visual design language nod to the society being highly regimented and that.
SM-33 is loads of fun. Nick Frost’s portrayal is fab, and has shades of Chunk and Bosun Smee (yes I did just realise SM-33 is…Smee)
Also some fun new ship designs, in amongst at least some classics, like a Pelta Class Frigate.
I feel this just strengthens my point. Why would the Jedi treat a really vague prophecy, from who knows where and when, as something to believe when they know from first hand experience that attempting to interpret the future is incredibly hard? Why would you believe that one person would result in balancing the force, which is something that is created by and connects all living things in the galaxy?
We often chuckle about this when discussing SW on gaming nights.
Ok, so there's this prophecy where the Chosen One will balance the Force....
And then Qui-Gon comes back from a mission with this too-old-for-training kid in tow, who he claims is the Chosen One - & wants to train him.
The Jedi Council should've unanimously been like "HELL NO! Put him back where you found him, now!"
Because right now? Despite some Separatists, things are pretty good. The Jedi are numerous, in charge, there's no Sith....
If Ani balances the Force? That's going to change big time. There's either going to be a lot more Sith, a lot less Jedi, or both. In any event it'll be bad for the Jedi.
Oh, look what happened.
At the time of Anakin being found the Jedi were in charge, but they were weakening and dwindling. Slowly but surely it was happening and they didn't have a source or target for what was causing this very slow bleed.
Hence why forces like the Trade Federation were willing to kill two Jedi as part of their Trade Embargo.
It's also important to note that the Jedi interpretation of balance is clearly weighted heavily toward light out-balancing dark. At least in a numerical and power concept.
The Jedi were looking for a cause and found a solution. They didn't really find out the cause until later and by which point Anakin was already part trained and then things fell apart.
I feel this just strengthens my point. Why would the Jedi treat a really vague prophecy, from who knows where and when, as something to believe when they know from first hand experience that attempting to interpret the future is incredibly hard? Why would you believe that one person would result in balancing the force, which is something that is created by and connects all living things in the galaxy?
We often chuckle about this when discussing SW on gaming nights.
Ok, so there's this prophecy where the Chosen One will balance the Force....
And then Qui-Gon comes back from a mission with this too-old-for-training kid in tow, who he claims is the Chosen One - & wants to train him.
The Jedi Council should've unanimously been like "HELL NO! Put him back where you found him, now!"
Because right now? Despite some Separatists, things are pretty good. The Jedi are numerous, in charge, there's no Sith....
If Ani balances the Force? That's going to change big time. There's either going to be a lot more Sith, a lot less Jedi, or both. In any event it'll be bad for the Jedi.
Oh, look what happened.
The Jedi are losing their connection to the Force. This largely goes nowhere but is supposed to be why they care about the prophecy.
Geifer wrote: Well, it does have a 12+ rating around here, and I can see why. Some of the violence is kept just off screen, but there's still plenty that's shown. Also some fairly dark themes, I suppose. Plus a few sets that are on the creepy side. And of course...
Spoiler:
... actual skeletons. Who knew Skeleton Crew was going to be so literal.
Yup, I can see why it got the 12+, but for what it's worth, my girls (both under 12) both thought it was fantastic.
This show works surprisingly well. Suburban Star Wars is something I'd not have thought would work, but they really went all in on the idea here and make happen. I think of all things from the first episode, its the unnecessary parkour roll under the rising garage door that totally sold me.
Kim is a really solid character design, and reminiscent of Ogra from The Dark Crystal, and some comfortable exposition.
I do like that the kids seem genuinely clueless that their home world is unusual. And a tantalising hint there are others, all purposefully hidden. But, for what reason?
And is that the first Theramin used in a Star Wars score?
I particularly enjoy Crimson Jack encountering the stubbornness of children of a certain age.
And now? Now I need to wait a week, a bloody week for the next instalment. What a cruel world!
After the Acolyte, I was VERY skeptical of Skeleton Crew.
And happy to admit I am really happy with this show; it's wonderful .Really looking forward to the rest of the series.
Whilst I’ve enjoyed all the D+ fare, I had been worried about Skellington Crew, as we heard so little about it, and its release remained unknown for yonks.
But yes. This is, I’d say objectively, a cracking show.
This one is really going great places. If the Jedi turns out to have a fake leg, we're halfway to Muppet Treasure Island! Sm-33 already has Rizzo covered, and we've got Neel, a blue guy with a trunk that nobody is quite sure how they work.
Kim is a really solid character design, and reminiscent of Ogra from The Dark Crystal, and some comfortable exposition.
I do like that the kids seem genuinely clueless that their home world is unusual. And a tantalising hint there are others, all purposefully hidden. But, for what reason?
And is that the first Theramin used in a Star Wars score?
I particularly enjoy Crimson Jack encountering the stubbornness of children of a certain age.
And now? Now I need to wait a week, a bloody week for the next instalment. What a cruel world!
What is that you're saying? It's outrageous and unfair to make us wait for more? Almost as outrageous and unfair as elevating someone to the Jedi council but not making him a master in the process? How could I disagree with that?
While I'm not qualified in the slightest to talk about the technical aspects of music, I really like the show's credits theme. It somehow reminds me of a tune I liked in the way back when that I hardly even remember anymore. Probably something from an 80s or early 90s video game.
And we’re off to Not At Attin. Where it all goes a wee bit Fallout in feel and aesthetic, and I swear some are wearing Imperial Army helmets.
Which raises the question of not what happened there (someone kicked the snot out the planet), but when happened.
The obvious conclusion is during the Empire. But most obvious answer, not necessarily the right one. After all, those helmets could belong to an expeditionary force sent later in search of these jewel worlds.
SM-33 continues to be ace. And some solid character development for our kids, as things start to become pretty real for them, and not a silly laugh time adventure.
Weird to think the next episode is on Christmas Day!
And we’re off to Not At Attin. Where it all goes a wee bit Fallout in feel and aesthetic, and I swear some are wearing Imperial Army helmets.
Which raises the question of not what happened there (someone kicked the snot out the planet), but when happened.
The obvious conclusion is during the Empire. But most obvious answer, not necessarily the right one. After all, those helmets could belong to an expeditionary force sent later in search of these jewel worlds.!
Spoiler:
The clan boss dude says they are trading with off-world folks. He does say hides for ammunition, but it seems like a way for other military equipment to make its way there even without Imperial presence at any time.
The question I find more relevant is when the original cap'n got there. At Attin wouldn't be much of a lost world if anyone could just stroll onto one jewel of the Republic and get the coordinates to the whole treasury right there. Doesn't seem like something an Imperial occupation would miss. Possibly not even Separatists. They'd all want to get their grubby mitts on Republic worlds deemed so valuable that they got purposefully misplaced.
I'm really enjoying this series, way more than I thought I would tbh.
Spoiler:
Is it possible that At Achrann was always like this (so not destroyed during a war as such). Is it possible that all the planets were "made" identically but each serves a different purpose working towards the "Great Work"? So At Attin makes money, and At Achrann makes warriors. Each planet contributed something towards a common goal but in isolation from each other and the rest of the Galaxy? Anyway, that was my take on it. Also, the logo on the Troik uniforms does look similar to the Imperial Crest?
It is hilarious that the expectation from Disney has gotten so low, virtually everyone is 'oh, wow, this is actually ok!'. Even those trying to stir up culture wars are falling a bit flat. Who knew Disney could still make kids shows suitable for all the family!
Watched it through with daughter, she enjoyed it, but interestingly after episode 3, learning she had to wait a week for the next one seems to have made her disengage and didn't show much interest in watching it this week, instead saying will check it out again end Jan. Can you bring binge watchers back to weekly schedules?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Disney not hyping it as much as their terrible SW shows is odd. Maybe they will once they realise people seem to actually like this one?
StraightSilver wrote: I'm really enjoying this series, way more than I thought I would tbh.
Spoiler:
Is it possible that At Achrann was always like this (so not destroyed during a war as such). Is it possible that all the planets were "made" identically but each serves a different purpose working towards the "Great Work"? So At Attin makes money, and At Achrann makes warriors. Each planet contributed something towards a common goal but in isolation from each other and the rest of the Galaxy? Anyway, that was my take on it. Also, the logo on the Troik uniforms does look similar to the Imperial Crest?
Interesting idea.
Spoiler:
Also could be a real distopian “let’s see how a bunch of identical worlds develop with slightly different rules” social engineering experiments.
At Attin wouldn't be much of a lost world if anyone could just stroll onto one jewel of the Republic and get the coordinates to the whole treasury right there.
Spoiler:
If every Jewel World has co-ords for every other, smashing up one pillar leaves them showing on every other Jewel World.
The crew can pop off to one of the others, climb up into that tower, and get At Attin's co-ordinates from there.
Next stop, any of the others planets they can see in that room.
Live action remakes set in the Star Wars universe is a remarkably workable template it seems. This one has been really good, full stop. Got caught up last night. Definitely a treat.
As an aside, I'm mildly curious if At Attin started in the script as AT-M given the way they say it.
The_Real_Chris wrote: It is hilarious that the expectation from Disney has gotten so low, virtually everyone is 'oh, wow, this is actually ok!'. Even those trying to stir up culture wars are falling a bit flat. Who knew Disney could still make kids shows suitable for all the family!
My totally serious and not at all tongue in cheek hypothesis is (warning: tinfoil hat advised) that the writers weren't allowed to use the show as a vehicle to push identity politics like they're used to because it was going to go over the heads of the target audience anyway. But all those empty pages that stared back at them accusingly had to be filled with something and in their desperation they did the unthinkable and wrote a fun adventure story, swearing to themselves it was only this once and they would never have to do anything like it ever again.
StraightSilver wrote: I'm really enjoying this series, way more than I thought I would tbh.
Spoiler:
Is it possible that At Achrann was always like this (so not destroyed during a war as such). Is it possible that all the planets were "made" identically but each serves a different purpose working towards the "Great Work"? So At Attin makes money, and At Achrann makes warriors. Each planet contributed something towards a common goal but in isolation from each other and the rest of the Galaxy? Anyway, that was my take on it. Also, the logo on the Troik uniforms does look similar to the Imperial Crest?
Interesting idea.
Spoiler:
Also could be a real distopian “let’s see how a bunch of identical worlds develop with slightly different rules” social engineering experiments.
Not a bad thought for sure.
Spoiler:
I didn't know Vault-Tec had a Coruscant branch, but between all the corporate shenanigans that are already part of the dying Republic large scale social engineering projects would hardly look out of place.
@ StraightSilver: Is the logo you are referring to the dots arranged in a circle around a central dot? I thought of that as the symbol of the jewel worlds because they were arranged in a similar way in the owlcat's records.
At Attin wouldn't be much of a lost world if anyone could just stroll onto one jewel of the Republic and get the coordinates to the whole treasury right there.
Spoiler:
If every Jewel World has co-ords for every other, smashing up one pillar leaves them showing on every other Jewel World.
The crew can pop off to one of the others, climb up into that tower, and get At Attin's co-ordinates from there.
Next stop, any of the others planets they can see in that room.
Spoiler:
Possibly. Since the idea didn't come up in this episode I'm not sure it's going to go that way. Maybe they'll try one more world, find it devastated and the coordinates scratched out there as well and have SM-33 reveal that the old cap'n really, really wanted to keep his treasure a secret and went on an iconoclast tour before he went after the actual prize.
Seems a bit like the obvious solution, so I could see the writers trying to be clever about it instead.
Unfortunately this is still Disney and I wouldn't be surprised if...
Spoiler:
The home world turns out to be doing colossal currency manipulation or some such, creating credits for Palpatine to build his myriad of secret star destroyers with planet ending weaponry tm.
At the very least the supervisor is a sith.
The_Real_Chris wrote: Unfortunately this is still Disney and I wouldn't be surprised if...
Spoiler:
The home world turns out to be doing colossal currency manipulation or some such, creating credits for Palpatine to build his myriad of secret star destroyers with planet ending weaponry tm.
At the very least the supervisor is a sith.
Spoiler:
To be fair, if you absolutely have to keep the sequel trilogy canon and try to make any sense of that mess, a backup plan to mint old Republic credits isn't super terrible in context. It can be used to buy goods and services in the New Republic that is likely to accept Republic currency at least in the interim, which makes for a slightly better explanation for a fleet of Death Star Destroyers than "Sith values". And a huge influx of old credits devalues money across the New Republic and destabilizes it that much more, which is super convenient for the unopposed rise of the First Order.
But it also means that we should expect the plot to be foiled by a bunch of kids and their stupid dogJedi pirate pal since they're the protagonists and supposed to win. So the show would have to be really sneaky about revealing it to the audience and letting it persist, and dangle a different, valuable victory in front of the main characters to take their attention off it and give them their win.
While I'm not qualified in the slightest to talk about the technical aspects of music, I really like the show's credits theme. It somehow reminds me of a tune I liked in the way back when that I hardly even remember anymore. Probably something from an 80s or early 90s video game.
1) Obvious corrupted hologram is obvious. Question is, who is it that will be revealed as the original pirate captain?
2) I’m assuming that Jod is actually a former Padawan who somehow avoided Order 66? The lore he quotes to Wim is straight up Jedi teaching.
I can’t quite figure out the timeline here; At-Attin has obviously missed the Rebellion, and probably the Clone Wars and rise of the Empire too, but sometimes it seems like they’ve only disappeared within living memory (at least of older folks) and other times it seems like they’re an ancient legend from centuries before?
I never got the impression that anyone thought they had been around recently. Everyone outside seems to think At Attin is just a myth, which backs up them having been cut off for a long time.
While I'm not qualified in the slightest to talk about the technical aspects of music, I really like the show's credits theme. It somehow reminds me of a tune I liked in the way back when that I hardly even remember anymore. Probably something from an 80s or early 90s video game.
It immediately reminds me of PoTC.
Now that you mention it, there's a bit of overlap there. Can't complain about that. Pirates is among my favorite soundtracks.
2) I’m assuming that Jod is actually a former Padawan who somehow avoided Order 66? The lore he quotes to Wim is straight up Jedi teaching.
Spoiler:
My guess is youngling. Just enough training for a trick or two and some pearls of wisdom, but not remotely enough to really qualify as a Jedi.
Since Jude Law isn't exactly fresh anymore, that would put him way before Order 66. So possibly a youngling lost in a pirate attack and raised to be a pirate by a captain/mentor who figured having a Force sensitive lackey might be handy to keep around.
It is also slanderous, no, outright villainous propaganda for suggesting that the most (in)famous pirate captain is not in fact the one and only Hondo Ohnaka! How hurtful! And Inaccurate! But I suppose we have to accept that a tiny minority of woefully uneducated individuals would in their ignorance make such preposterous claims.
Though, as with such casts kids grow up bloody quickly. Especially given filming wrapped in January 2023.
Wouldn’t say no to more in the same vein though - provided it sticks the landing. I mean, it should do because it’s Andor level right now. But you never can tell.
Good, enjoyable series so far. Pacing is pretty good and they've managed to get the tone right. It's funny when it needs to be, without forgetting we're dealing with a bunch of kids in life or death situations.
Spoiler:
The corrupted hologram is obviously supposed to hide a known character as being the pirate captain. However, I'm struggling to think who that could realistically be.
The only options I can think of are the parents. But Wim's dad, both previously and in this very episode, shows himself to be a bit of a wimp. Neel's(?) an elephant boy, which seems like it would make it kind of obvious if the captain was his father. That leaves Fara, the woman in charge, but she also seems a little bit inept. Can't remember if the captain was referred to by gender at any point?
... looking at the skull throne I wouldn't expect he captain to be human.
I looked at a few stills from that scene. There isn't much to see there but it might be a Duros or Neimoidian. But most of the time nothing is even shown of the head. And the hat doesn't look familiar to me.
I’m not even sure the supervisor is real. They talk about them but we’ve never seen them, right? Isnt it always the Droids going The Supervisor Said No?
AduroT wrote: I’m not even sure the supervisor is real. They talk about them but we’ve never seen them, right? Isnt it always the Droids going The Supervisor Said No?
Spoiler:
That was my impression. I've been assuming the Supervisor is probably some mysterious overseer that nobody directly talks to who likely no longer exists after the rise of the Empire. Maybe the pirate captain is the Supervisor, but was we haven't seen the Supervisor so far that would be a fairly weak reveal, I think.
An unanswered question remains how long was the ship all upside down and buried?
If it was buried deliberately (having perhaps crash landed, killing all the crew. Or crashed because all the crew killed each other, or crash landing due to defensive fire, and any survivors being subtlety murdered to death by the folk living there), it may not be all that long.
But, if its distinct covering was the result of good old Mother Nature? Could be quite a bit longer.
Maybe all the inhabitants are descended from the ship’s suriviving crew, who found a community seemingly entirely at peace, in employment and happily going about their lives.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: An unanswered question remains how long was the ship all upside down and buried?
If it was buried deliberately (having perhaps crash landed, killing all the crew. Or crashed because all the crew killed each other, or crash landing due to defensive fire, and any survivors being subtlety murdered to death by the folk living there), it may not be all that long.
But, if its distinct covering was the result of good old Mother Nature? Could be quite a bit longer.
Maybe all the inhabitants are descended from the ship’s suriviving crew, who found a community seemingly entirely at peace, in employment and happily going about their lives.
Maybe. Seems unlikely that such a crash would go unnoticed since we know it's within easy walking distance of what would seem to be the main population centre of the planet. But then it seems equally unlikely that a regular landing would also go unnoticed. The ship's presence on the planet itself, or more specifically how nobody knows about it, is possibly just as big a mystery as the other plot points so far.
The general vibe of At Attin does seem to include the possibility the ship was shot down or crash landed and then everything was covered up.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: An unanswered question remains how long was the ship all upside down and buried?
If it was buried deliberately (having perhaps crash landed, killing all the crew. Or crashed because all the crew killed each other, or crash landing due to defensive fire, and any survivors being subtlety murdered to death by the folk living there), it may not be all that long.
But, if its distinct covering was the result of good old Mother Nature? Could be quite a bit longer.
Maybe all the inhabitants are descended from the ship’s suriviving crew, who found a community seemingly entirely at peace, in employment and happily going about their lives.
Maybe. Seems unlikely that such a crash would go unnoticed since we know it's within easy walking distance of what would seem to be the main population centre of the planet. But then it seems equally unlikely that a regular landing would also go unnoticed. The ship's presence on the planet itself, or more specifically how nobody knows about it, is possibly just as big a mystery as the other plot points so far.
The general vibe of At Attin does seem to include the possibility the ship was shot down or crash landed and then everything was covered up.
When Wim's dad is picked up in the forest, one of the security droids says he's in a restricted area. I'd take that to mean either the crash was detected by the authorities, possibly because they're responsible for it in the first place, or...
Spoiler:
... the mint is operated in a hidden installation located somewhere around that place and the pirates intended to go straight for the jackpot before things went sideways.
ZergSmasher wrote: I don't think the person in the hologram is going to be someone we've already seen in the show. If it was, that might be kind of lame.
Spoiler:
I'm wondering if it's going to be either Hondo Ohnaka or perhaps Darth Maul
Would be weird if it were an established character. Not that that's ever stopped anyone.
Spoiler:
But I don't think it's Hondo or Maul. Timeline issues aside, the hologram doesn't sound like either of them.
Also worth noting the vehicles in the town (village? City?) are on what looks like a slot track.
Makes me wonder what the underlying design is about there. On one hand? Could be so everyone benefits from communal power. No need to fuel up, the track way provides the power. But, also a handy way to ensure few off-roading options.
I’ll watch the first episode again, as we saw one other speedebike, and I didn’t clock if that’s also running off the grid. The riders were taking the mick out Fern’s bike though.
While we may suspect that everything we see of At Attin adds up to something sinister, a power network that covers all the citizens' needs fits the planet's model colony status neatly. Says the optimist, I know. But maybe it's just one of those little world-building details that's actually what it looks like on the surface.
I agree. There are sensible, benign explanations for what we’ve seen. A perfect Utopia if you will.
Certainly it seems to be at least a town/city of full employment and free, effective communication. And like Earth in Star Trek? When you live in a paradise, you’re just left with little drive to change that.
Catering to your every need isn’t necessarily a sign of an underlying, sinister reason.
Heck, if it is indeed one of The Republic’s Mint Worlds, there solely to make galactic currency? There’s a lot to be said to ensuring those responsible for running the world down to the lowliest have as few reasons to misbehave as possible.
Question; if it’s a mint, why does it need thousands of analysts? If “the great work” is “make lots of coins”, that’s just a production line, no complex roles required.
That’s a fair question. One possible answer is the analysts are required to gauge production, based on the wider galactic economy, and where it might need to be sent?
If they get the info over a secure channel, that would reduce incoming and outgoing ship traffic, helping to keep its location a secret?
Or, depending how long it’s been at it? It could be to ensure employment. Assuming the Bigwigs know the Republic fell, they can just pay the staff in minted currency and keep everyone sweet, hiding the truth?
There's always the possibility that the Great Work is some kind of quasi-religious view of the original purpose of the planet. It's clearly Galactic Republic in origin and if the whole point was to isolate them from the rest of the Republic maybe once the Republic fell the Supervisor and others in charge decided to keep up the pretence to maintain order. After several decades I could see how that may end up with something akin to the 40k Imperium, with people toiling away at pointless tasks because that's what they've been told to do and nobody actually knows the full picture any more.
Whatever the explanation, I hope there is one this season. Even a partial answer to the larger questions about At Attin would be good to help seed a potential second season.
Realised that having watched the latest episode after I got home from New Years, I don’t remember much about it.
That’s some of tonight’s viewing sorted then, innit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Chapter Seven is, predictably, superb. This has been an absolutely top notch show from start to almost finish.
Genuinely a bit bummed next week is the finale. Really, really hoping for a second season, if the conclusion reasonably allows. As in, I don’t want or advocate a second season for the sake of a second season.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Realised that having watched the latest episode after I got home from New Years, I don’t remember much about it.
That’s some of tonight’s viewing sorted then, innit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Chapter Seven is, predictably, superb. This has been an absolutely top notch show from start to almost finish.
Genuinely a bit bummed next week is the finale. Really, really hoping for a second season, if the conclusion reasonably allows. As in, I don’t want or advocate a second season for the sake of a second season.
Yeah, E.7 is fantastic. This is a show that I have unexpectedly enjoyed far more than anticipated, and has given me some small hope for future Disney SW offerings. It's Andor-level good.
Can you imagine Jude Law doing a second season assuming he survives? He seems to sign on for one and done things, and this was 2 years ago. Also I am hoping there is no redemption for him. Need more and competent villains in Disney!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Chapter Seven is, predictably, superb. This has been an absolutely top notch show from start to almost finish.
Genuinely a bit bummed next week is the finale. Really, really hoping for a second season, if the conclusion reasonably allows. As in, I don’t want or advocate a second season for the sake of a second season.
I feel positive about the show ending next week. Only one more good episode and you can strike out that "almost", and we actually get a good show from start to finish. I think that's great.
The sequels mostly bugged me because instead of new designs, we got modernised classics. Granted that did spare us K-Wing type guff designs, but it still felt like a waste of opportunity.
Here though? The Pirate ships are superb. They scream Star Wars, contain some familiar shapes, but are otherwise new. The carrier frigate is a particularly strong design. So strong, I previously thought it was a co-opted orbital outpost from the Clone Wars era. But no, it’s a ship!
There are even nice little touches, like them just legging it from pursing X-Wings, showing discretion is the better part of valour, and suggesting that the New Republics pilots are feared and respected for their skills.
Though it could also be “but if we shoot one down, overstretched as their resources might be, we’ll only be attracting a sturdier response, and we can’t be bothering with that”.
Seriously. Any Dakkanauts on the fence for this show, for whatever reason? Tune in. It’s ace. And if you ask me, destined to be a beloved classic in its own right.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Finally, at least for tonight’s wibbling? If SM-33 doesn’t get an Artois and Threepio polish job at the end of the finale, I’ll riot. On my own.
ON reflection I hope it doesn't get a second season if it isn't already written (like Andor's was). Rather than a diminishing return I would prefer more world building fun shows. Get the team to make half a dozen fun star wars adventures and you rehabilitate it considerably (just try and steer them away from the awful ones...).
The_Real_Chris wrote: ON reflection I hope it doesn't get a second season if it isn't already written (like Andor's was). Rather than a diminishing return I would prefer more world building fun shows. Get the team to make half a dozen fun star wars adventures and you rehabilitate it considerably (just try and steer them away from the awful ones...).
Giving A Star Wars Story type series another chance would be far from the worst thing to come from Skeleton Crew doing well. Provided the fine folks responsible for it realize why Skeleton Crew is good, of course.
Might be a good way of filling the space between the original trilogy and the sequel era without relying heavily on the Thrawn storyline. Not that we shouldn't have that as well, but it might be good for it to focus on its own thing without pressure to insert other things that don't really belong to it but are relevant story developments that need some place to appear. Looking at you, The Mostly but not Entirely Book of Boba Fett.
Rory McCann, aka The Hound in Game of Thrones has been cast as Baylan Skoll, replacing the late Ray Stevenson.
Ray really nailed that role imo, so Rory has some big shoes to fill but think ole Sandor might be able to pull that off. Happy they did not just cut out that storyline and went with a recast that could perhaps do it justice, since to me Baylan was one of the best parts (if not the best) of season one.
I’ve just stuck on A New Hope. Or Star Wars as I first knew it.
And I think I now understand why I’m enjoying Skeleton Crew so much.
Like A New Hope, but without the necessity, Skeleton Crew hasn’t bothered really explaining itself.
It stands on its own two feet, as an excellent, younger audience oriented adventure story.
You don’t need to have seen anything else of Star Wars and its ever expanding saga to just sort of get Skeleton Crew.
Now, that’s not to say relying on audience familiarity is a bad thing. If it was, no sequel or prequel ever would’ve worked, no matter the series.
Instead, I’ll argue that observation is a testament to the writers. I tuned in as a lifelong Star Wars fan fairly (but not completely) familiar with most nooks and crannies of the underlying narrative universe, and as you may have noticed I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it.
But I’ve also, from the same perspective, thoroughly enjoyed all screening Star Wars. Yet I’ll happily acknowledge a bunch of that appreciation comes from my overall appetite.
Skeleton Crew? It’s just good, entirely on its own merits. Whether you’ve never even heard of Star Wars, or have been around it for a long time like me, or have gone further than me and devoured every book and comic and net series ever made, it tickles the pickle.
More like this please. Ideally alongside somewhat more niche gubbins like Ahsoka.
Also, if your sole critique of Ahsoka is “look at her, folding her arms….the female canine”, maybe go watch Clone Wars and Rebels. As that’s where it started.
I'm glad they're recasting Baylan instead of trying to write him out of the story somehow. I don't think I'm familiar with Rory McCann. I haven't watched Game of Thrones.
Geifer wrote: I don't think I'm familiar with Rory McCann. I haven't watched Game of Thrones.
Shame about Ray Stevenson.
Have you seen Hot Fuzz?
Dude dominated and pretty much out acted an ensemble cast of Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, Paddy Considine, Timothy Dalton, Olivia Colman, Bill Nighy and Martin Freeman to name a few.
Look at this. Look at the range(or not, youtube links are being weird):
Automatically Appended Next Post: He does show some acting chops in Alexander(2004), where he (as Craterus) begs Alexander the Great(Colin Ferrel) to go no further in the Irish conquest of ancient Persia. The youtube link is jacked though, so I’m not linking it. ‘Alexander Implores his troops for one more month”, if you care to view it.
B WINGS! SODDING B WINGS! IN ACTION! After 42 years, we see B Wings for real, and they’re fantastic! With composite beam lasers!
This show has been absolutely top notch throughout. The visuals, the plot, the acting, all of it.
As I said last week? If that’s all we get, I’ll be happy. But I could absolutely go another season, provided it’s done for the right, plot driven reasons.
Showing the uphill battle Disney's handling of Star Wars has caused - "Skeleton Crew's first two episodes were the least-watched premiere of any Star Wars series to date.."
Which is a shame but multiple people I know that watched the previous stuff just showed no interest in watching this.
It's pretty perfect as is. Probably the best thing Disney has done with the brand and I'm largely a fan of most of what they've put out. Absolutely loved it.
"Bad News For ‘Skeleton Crew’ Season 2, Which Doesn’t Deserve It"
Skeleton Crew ended its first season last night with an excellent finale that caps off one of Disney’s best Star Wars project.
It is also its least successful by quite a wide margin, it seems.
There’s no real way to spin that Skeleton Crew is simply not a meaningful hit for Disney, and despite its quality, seems unlikely to get a second season despite positive reviews from both critics, and even jaded fans, thanks to the eternal viewership vs. cost problem.
As it stands, Skeleton Crew appears to be the least-watched Star Wars show ever, below even The Acolyte which set the record, coming in below Andor. Skeleton Crew did not chart with Nielsen in its first few weeks at all, something The Acolyte managed at least a couple times, and it does not seem likely that when the chart catches up to present day, that’s going to change.
So, it wasn’t well-watched. But it was cheap, right? Well, there’s cheap, and there’s “cheap for Disney Star Wars.” While The Acolyte clocked in at an absurd $200+ million, Skeleton Crew was “only” reportedly $136 million, breaking down to $17 million an episode for The final season of Game of Thrones cost $15 million an episode.
What Andor, The Acolyte and Skeleton Crew all have in common is that they feature no core characters from the Skywalker/Dave Filioni era, needing to stand on their own. This bodes poorly for Disney’s need to get away from the Skywalker era, but it shows they really can’t effectively, at least if these budgets stay as sky-high as they’ve been.
Skeleton Crew was a genuinely great show. Even as the Star Wars fanbase is constantly in turmoil in the Disney era, most came together to acknowledge how fun and well-done it was. It’s got a 91% critic score and an 81% audience score, and I think most people would be excited to see it return.
The show is fortunate in that, unlike The Acolyte, it was designed to theoretically have what feels like a concrete ending. But those behind the show really wanted more. From co-creator Jon Watts:
“Yeah, we wanted to make sure this season had a satisfying beginning, middle, and end. But, if people want to see more Skeleton Crew, we’d be happy to make more.”
“It’s exciting to think about. We’ve mainly been focused on telling this story, but there’s always a chance that they [the kids] could meet some surprising people in the future.”
The only way Skeleton Crew gets another season is if Disney thinks that a quality show like this, a rare win for the brand at this point, deserves to return as a beacon of kind of content they can still make, regardless of how little it was viewed and how much it cost. Again, there has to be a way to keep these budgets down, and a show like The Acolyte might have even lived if it didn’t cost the GDP of a small country.
Disney has said that it wants more series that are actual series, less one-off miniseries and lead-ins to spin-offs and movies. Skeleton Crew would be a great place to start that, and yet barring some miracle, it’s headed to the Disney Plus graveyard like so many other shows before it.
When Andor s2 drops, I'll probably re-subscribe to D+ to check this out, as even folks who aren't Disney d-riders said it was pretty good.
I do wonder how much Disney are hurting Star Wars content by having it locked away on D+. Maybe they need to consider some cheaper, license-specific subscriptions for those who want to watch, say, Star Wars or Marvel content without investing in a full D+ subscription...
Although it also seems like they just need to work on some more cost effective ways of making their series. Less CGI and more scenes set in old quarries, perhaps...
So far as Skeleton Crew goes... Whole family enjoyed the hell out of it.
Spoiler:
Particularly pleased that, while they did give him a bit of a wishy-washy, 'but I didn't actually want to hurt anyone!' turn at the end, there was no sudden pivot to good guy or redemption arc for Jod. Nope, he's a pirate, just not a very good one.
And while a season two would be cool, it would be difficult to do without it being a very different type of show, or some improbable set up to have the kids jetting off into space again. So as cool as it would be to have more, I wouldn't be too sad if this is just one and done, and move on to other stuff.
And, Disney, if you want a continuing series, again, find a way to make them on a smaller budget and, for the love of kittens, make an actual series instead of a movie chopped into 8 episodes.
I liked the Supervisor, he seemed an interesting character, but they were offed so quickly and easily with one stab to one small part of their large body and ended up being such a massive single point of failure for the whole city. Just felt like a waste and bad engineering.
Secondly I felt it ended a tad too suddenly. Not like a full on cliff hanger, but I would have appreciated a small epilogue type deal. Don’t know if they have a season two planned to explore the repercussions of the shows events.
Right then. Here we are. Good show from start to finish. What a rare achievement.
Would be a shame if Disney did nothing but look at viewing numbers and decided it was a flop because of that. A little reflection would be appreciated. After spending close to a decade shaping customer expectations quite negatively, getting out of that hole won't be without cost. That's just the way it is.
Also this reminded me and I had to dig up this quote from pages back:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’ll give it a fair shake, but I’m suspecting I’m not the target audience.
Makes you wonder how many people dismissed Skeleton Crew out of hand because of the young protagonists and didn't give it a fair shake because it didn't look like something they thought they'd be interested in. Would be pretty ironic that the one show that does everything right is also the one that comes with insurmountable marketing hurdles.
ccs wrote: I also liked seeing the B-Wings in action - though shooting the cruiser down over the center of town seems to be a poor plan....
Normally I'd now say something about the New Republic, because that's what I do, but instead I'm inclined to wonder how well this serves as commentary on rebel war veterans. So used to swooping in, shooting up the target and getting out quick and clean that even years later they are so narrowly focused on the mission objective that they don't realize that it's no longer the enemy who has to clean up after their attack. All that combined with an overwhelmed bureaucracy that struggles so much to reorganize the core of the Republic that what happens at the margins simply doesn't attract the necessary attention to change such an attitude.
insaniak wrote: So far as Skeleton Crew goes... Whole family enjoyed the hell out of it.
Spoiler:
Particularly pleased that, while they did give him a bit of a wishy-washy, 'but I didn't actually want to hurt anyone!' turn at the end, there was no sudden pivot to good guy or redemption arc for Jod. Nope, he's a pirate, just not a very good one.
Spoiler:
I didn't think of it as a turn. He's thwarted by his own moral principles, which were explained only in this episode but could be seen before. He's not going to kill kids or emotionally scar them (much). I'm not sure if that really makes him a bad pirate. Ineffective under these specific circumstances, sure. But he had a great plan and was happy to enslave At Attin's population, made a convincing statement from the get go and brought all the force needed to set up his own little pirate paradise.
Even early on when he challenges Fern to become captain he unceasingly pleads for her to yield until she finally gives in, just so as not to hurt her. He's never been a particularly bad guy, really. He really only fails in the end because he did not ask the one and only question that mattered. What would Anakin do?
insaniak wrote: And while a season two would be cool, it would be difficult to do without it being a very different type of show, or some improbable set up to have the kids jetting off into space again. So as cool as it would be to have more, I wouldn't be too sad if this is just one and done, and move on to other stuff.
I imagine a decent way of dealing with this is...
Spoiler:
... to bring back the now grown up (or close enough) kids as formal citizens of the New Republic now that At Attin is no longer isolated. Under the new circumstances we could see them naturally travel around as functionaries or soldiers.
It would be a different type of show for sure, but unless you make sequels very rapidly, kids grow out of their initial roles too quickly to stick to the same themes for long.
insaniak wrote: I do wonder how much Disney are hurting Star Wars content by having it locked away on D+. Maybe they need to consider some cheaper, license-specific subscriptions for those who want to watch, say, Star Wars or Marvel content without investing in a full D+ subscription...
FX (who airs a lot of the Marvel films) aired the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special a few times over the holidays while Ms. Marvel also aired on ABC in August 2023, so there's some hope we might see a little more some day.
That last observation? All the more so here, as shooting wrapped in January. 2023.
That’s a long gestation for the show. And means the young cast have had two years to grow. And kids grow like weeds at that age.
There’s certainly interesting things that a second season could explore.
At Attin is a planet utterly unaware of the Galactic Civil War, and quite possibly the Clone Wars.
Spoiler:
Sure, the Overseer knew about the impact of Order 66, but that’s about it. And I don’t see why he’d share that with the general populace. And we’ve still no real idea how long it’s been isolated for, whether it was helping to fund the Empire, or perhaps that Palpatine used it as a personal piggy bank.
Heck, we still don’t know how long the Onyx Cinder had been there.
We also know from the conclusion of Episode 7, there’s a lot of still valuable currency planetside. Enough to make Scrooge McDuck look penniless. That’s….thats not something that won’t affect the wider Galactic Economy.
The word is also out now. At Attin has been found. Which is probably going to require a permanent New Republic Garrison, lest pretty much anyone rock up with a small fleet for a bit of light fingered, heavy pockets pilfering.
Heck, it could mean any planet or individual’s wealth that’s currently based on a decent stock of Republic Credits could be looking at a significant impact, if this devalues that resource.
You know, I think I could live with the show coming back in three or four years. Let the cast and characters grow up, and return us at a narratively later point. Just because I’d love a second season, is no reason to rush it.
Overall? More please. More stand alone stories in the familiar background with new characters. I do like my Saga stuff, and have unironically enjoyed all the Disney fare barring Bad Batch (even that had good points, razing of Kamino in particular. That was beautifully done).
Basically? Remember the original MCU Formula. You’re not making a Star Wars show or movie. You’re making a Political Thriller/Kids Adventure/Heist/Slapstick/Noir movie, that just happens to be set in a universe the audience are familiar with. And as long as you ensure you’re making a good genre film? It should be fine.
That where the DCEU went wrong if you ask me. That was trying to make Superhero Movies. And it’s also why Phase 4 of the MCU felt a bit wonky. I don’t think any of the movies are all that bad, but they felt like pretty average genre movies. And it’s why Book of Boba Fett wasn’t great.
The Mando is a Space Western, and a pretty good one. Its latest season is more pioneers trying to find a home. And I’ve greatly enjoyed that. And I think I still would if you removed the Star Wars names and places, and just made it its own SciFi.
insaniak wrote: I do wonder how much Disney are hurting Star Wars content by having it locked away on D+. Maybe they need to consider some cheaper, license-specific subscriptions for those who want to watch, say, Star Wars or Marvel content without investing in a full D+ subscription...
FX (who airs a lot of the Marvel films) aired the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special a few times over the holidays while Ms. Marvel also aired on ABC in August 2023, so there's some hope we might see a little more some day.
I’ve been signed up to D+ since before Day One in the UK, so I’m not sure if they do a free trial. But if they do? Might be worth waiting until Andor S2 is finished airing, then binge Andor and Skellington Crew. I genuinely don’t believe you’d be disappointed.
Viewership numbers for Skeleton Crew were down probably because The Acolyte just sucked so damn hard, and several of the other recent Star Wars shows (Ahsoka, Kenobi, even Mando S3) have been mediocre mostly (Ahsoka was okay, at least to me, and parts of Mando S3 were good). My brother, a longtime Star Wars fan just like me, has been so burnt out on Star Wars lately and how it's been treated by Disney that he refused to even watch Skeleton Crew, but said he might if I told him it was good. He said he might come back to it for Andor S2 also as he loved the first season. And like I said, he was a hardcore Star Wars fan. A lot of fans have been pissed about the direction Disney has taken the franchise, and that's why some of them haven't bothered with Skeleton Crew.
Now as for my opinion of Skeleton Crew, I really enjoyed it a lot, and for once they actually stuck the landing. I'm not sure where they'd even go for a Season 2, so I'm okay if there isn't one. What we do need is more Star Wars media of this quality though, instead of another The Acolyte. I like that none of the main Star Wars characters showed up in it; it did some good world-building, expanding the lore of the wider Star Wars universe without being burdened by tying in to the Skywalker saga (mentioning Order 66 and that the Jedi were declared traitors to the Republic was a nice nod, tying it into established history without hitting the audience in the face with it). I'd love more stories like this.
As a company that needs to keep people interested in theme parks and merchandise, I’d hope they know the value of a loved cult hit that can expand its fandom in time over a front-loaded, forgettable flash in the pan that numbs consumer interest.
I really enjoyed Skeleton Crew, it's a shame to hear it's apparently not doing too great, would hate for it to scare Disney off making more of these one-off shows.
I felt it ended a bit abruptly though. Could've done with a little epilogue showing what happened to Jod, or some poor low level New Republic officials trying to work out what to do with a literal treasure planet.
I’m fairly confident we’ve not seen the last of At Attin. Not sure if second season, or revisited elsewhere with cameos. But yeah, they can’t just leave the planet there!
I thoroughly enjoyed this. After BoBF, Mondo S.3 and the shitshow that was The Acolyte, I was really burned out of SW and had effectively lost most of my interest, And then this came along. And it's wonderful.
My 11-year old daughter, who isn't a SW fan, absolutely loves it too, and I think it'll help introduce her to the rest of the franchise now too.
It's just a great show, if you're on the fence just hop off and enjoy. I think, like Andor, the viewing figures will increase over time.
Of course, in the UK and I think Europe, we get Star, which is Hulu with the fat trimmed off so far as I can tell. So we definitely have a better value offering than other territories.
I do wish they’d put more Nat Geo history content up though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another thought on Skeleton Crew.
I wouldn’t call the plot simplistic, but it is straight forward and uncluttered. No actions feel forced because the plot needs to advance. Nothing feels overly contrived. Let’s break it down.
Spoiler:
Kids are Kids, and are mucking around when they find the ship. Kids being Kids, Big Shiny Button is pressed, and their inadvertent adventure begins.
They want to get home, but none know how to pilot the ship, or how to navigate. Their new friend, the Pirate Droid interprets their orders as best it can.
This leads them to the Pirates, and Timmy Ten Names. And in doing something as innocent as paying for food, reveal their home planet is really special. The chase is on!
Timmy Ten Names takes them places trying to get them home. And his efforts there are genuine, if entirely selfish.
Hijinx ensue, we see trust issues explored. Each of the kids’ talents help along the way, including KB who has that head computer thing due to an undisclosed accident. But, it means she has eidetic memory, enabling her to become a Good Enough Pilot.
They make it home, pirates in tow. And from the lessons they’ve learned along the way, the day is saved through grit, pluck, luck and determination.
No offscreen secrets. No Modern Dr Who plot contrivance because writing endings is hard.
I'd personally be quite happy if there's no season 2. They're not going to capture the same magic again and there's not a lot more to do with the premise. I'd certainly not be sad to see these characters elsewhere though. I feel like they really want to use Wim as an X-Wing pilot at some point.
As for spoilers:
Spoiler:
I thought for sure Jod was going to pull that saber into himself at the end during the tug of war. I'm curious if they shot it as an option.
I do appreciate just how much Jude Law sells the character. His brief little starving orphan backstory works because Jude repeatedly draws a line in his villainy, even while making it clear he's not incapable of crossing it.
On that note, how great is it to see some classic henchmen who sell themselves as a real threat. While never set up as a real chance of death, seeing the villains fire back at Neel's defense array was something you don't often see anymore.
My only gripe was KB's crash didn't have the oomph to really scare anyone. The cast reaction felt overblown in comparison, which is too bad, because it was absolutely appropriate for the scene otherwise.
Really, the kids outperforming all of the adults outside of Jude Law really can't be understated. They did a fantastic job.
I certainly wish it was getting the viewership it deserves, but I understand. It didn't have a huge marketing push and the last few shows have been kind of a drag. I didn't jump in right away myself and had to explain to friends that its absolutely not one to miss.
I’ve seen a lot of comments on Facebook by folks not bothering with this, or more bizarrely watching a couple of episodes then deciding it’s not for them because it’s aimed at kids.
Which I don’t think it is, exactly. The heroes are young but this is a beautifully told tale set in the SW universe. It doesn’t even require the viewer to know about SW. (It might leave them with some questions.)
It avoids what have felt like almost obligatory cameos of existing characters or setting up something for the next series.
Don't forget a large number of adults still think "cartoons are always for kids" esp if its not "Adult cartoons" that use cartoon as a vector to do gratuitous extreme stuff.
Also hating Disney and Star Wars is like... an entire industry at this point. Manufacturing outrage for profit and all that.
Like did anyone actually think Sonic and Mufasa was a rivalry for the ages or is that something I just got to use as a litmus test for things to block?
To be fair, Sonic did really well with critics and audiences and had a strong first couple weekends. Pretty much every box office or entertainment YouTuber was comparing them on box office performance.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: To be fair, Sonic did really well with critics and audiences and had a strong first couple weekends. Pretty much every box office or entertainment YouTuber was comparing them on box office performance.
Oh, Sonic's popularity absolutely caught people off guard that haven't been paying attention the toy aisles the last 5 years. Anyone that dismissed it critically and was surprised by its performance commercially I get. No surprise there. It's all the attempts to manufacture some kind of rival narrative between it and a prequel no one wanted to a live action remake no one wanted either that feels incredibly contrived by the algorithm leeches.
Overread wrote: Don't forget a large number of adults still think "cartoons are always for kids" esp if its not "Adult cartoons" that use cartoon as a vector to do gratuitous extreme stuff.
I take your point, but it’s really the folks that watched a couple of episodes then stopped ‘because it’s a show for kids’ that puzzle me.
Unless they were expecting grisly murder and jiggly bits in SW?
Also, I really hope that Fern’s mum gets together with Win’s dad.
The kids still have SM-33. And SM-33 seemingly has a really, really good memory. And was a Pirate for who knows how long.
What other secrets might be lurking inside his bonce? What other treasures are buried?
Potential plot hook for a second, later season. Wim, Fern, Neel and KB in their awkward mid to late teens, feeling that urge to rebel. Their young, optimistic and invincible feeling minds sparked by a tale spun by SM-33.
ccs wrote: I also liked seeing the B-Wings in action - though shooting the cruiser down over the center of town seems to be a poor plan....
Normally I'd now say something about the New Republic, because that's what I do, but instead I'm inclined to wonder how well this serves as commentary on rebel war veterans. So used to swooping in, shooting up the target and getting out quick and clean that even years later they are so narrowly focused on the mission objective that they don't realize that it's no longer the enemy who has to clean up after their attack. All that combined with an overwhelmed bureaucracy that struggles so much to reorganize the core of the Republic that what happens at the margins simply doesn't attract the necessary attention to change such an attitude.
The poor plan there is owned by shows writers/directors etc.
They clearly did it for the FX moment. I highly doubt they ever considered making commentary on Alliance Vets state of mind.
Normally I'd agree. But on some level there might be awareness of the implications. The cost of ostensible heroics is explicitly the backstory of Trace and Rafa Martez. Doesn't mean everyone involved with this show thought things through, of course. But given the precedent we can't rule out that it was done on purpose either.
Geifer wrote: Would be a shame if Disney did nothing but look at viewing numbers and decided it was a flop because of that.
There's literally nothing else they can use as a metric to determine if it was a flop or not. I'm not aware of any merch, and even if there was, the audience for the show was so small that you'd still end up with a glut of unsold product like you can find at discount stores all over the USA for Disney Star Wars. All the positive word of mouth I've heard means nothing if it doesn't translate to views, which thanks to streaming Disney knows exactly what people are watching or not watching.
Maybe it'll have legs over time, but for now there's a risk that anything produced for Disney could end up getting Willowed.
insaniak wrote: I do wonder how much Disney are hurting Star Wars content by having it locked away on D+. Maybe they need to consider some cheaper, license-specific subscriptions for those who want to watch, say, Star Wars or Marvel content without investing in a full D+ subscription...
The trick being, the whole POINT of these shows is to sell subscriptions to D+.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunarSol wrote: Also hating Disney and Star Wars is like... an entire industry at this point. Manufacturing outrage for profit and all that.
The YouTube critics I pay most attention to - especially The Critical Drinker - are famously criticized for 'manufacturing outrage for profit and all that'.
They rather liked Skeleton Crew, and aren't shy about saying so in their recent content.
It's almost like they're not 'manufacturing outrage for profit and all that', but offering genuinely honest critiques of what has been a VERY badly handled franchise the last ten years...
The trick being, the whole POINT of these shows is to sell subscriptions to D+.
..
Obviously. But in this day and age of every company and their dog having their own streaming service, getting people to fork out full price for a single property is a challenge.
I wouldn't have D+ if I was only interested in MCU content, as I have most of it on DVD. If I was only interested in Star Wars, I likely would not have a continuing subscription, because there would be no point one I was caught up, particularly since, again, I have all of the movies on DVD. As it is, I only have D+ because along with those two properties, there is enough other stuff on there I'm (or my kids are) actually interested in watching. If I was only interested in Star Wars, it wouldn't be worth it... And I've spoken to people who have specifically mentioned not having D+ for precisely that reason, so it's not just me that feels that way
Which is why Disney+ in the UK is probably the best Disney+.
We get all the usual Disney fare, Nat Geo, Star Wars and Marvel. But we also get Star, which seems to be Hulu’s greatest hits, at no extra cost. That covers me for Walking Dead, American Horror Story/Stories and a bunch of other stuff which is decent.
Overall, when I consider all my streaming services, I still consider I’m getting better value for money compared to Sky TV, a satellite service comprised of hundreds upon hundreds of unwatchable channels of utter guff.
I mean sure, there’s plenty of guff on Prime, Disney+, Paramount+ and that. But as I can just pull up whatever I want to watch and dodge the guff? I’m happy.
Actually been thinking of doing a thread on streaming and whether it’s ruined our expectations, but I’m struggling to set out my thoughts in a suitably neutral way for the intro.
LunarSol wrote: Also hating Disney and Star Wars is like... an entire industry at this point. Manufacturing outrage for profit and all that.
The YouTube critics I pay most attention to - especially The Critical Drinker - are famously criticized for 'manufacturing outrage for profit and all that'.
They rather liked Skeleton Crew, and aren't shy about saying so in their recent content.
It's almost like they're not 'manufacturing outrage for profit and all that', but offering genuinely honest critiques of what has been a VERY badly handled franchise the last ten years...
Critical Drinker isn't even close to what I consider the manufactured outrage engine. Anyone that spends more than 30 seconds editing their content is miles above the sludge I'm talking about.
And, fwiw, Star Wars has pretty much always been a badly handled franchise. There's like.... debatably 5 good movies in it and a slew of add on content whose quality varies tremendously. I know we've hit a generation nostalgic for it, but its not like the franchise was putting out anything better than what we get now 25 years ago either.
I only have D+ because it is bundled with Hulu and ESPN+ which gives me amazing access to NHL games. Otherwise, I would ditch them all for never having any decent content.
If it’s an hour or more telling us why you didn’t like the thing, when the thing was half hour long, just collect your “Congratulations On Not Liking The Thing” special person badge instead. Then everyone can know the very important fact that You Didn’t Like The Thing without you boring their tits off.
If it’s instead somewhat constructive criticism, regardless of your overall rating of the thing? That can take time to explain.
When I can breakdown complex financial complaints into just a page or two of a letter?
Not really. Brevity is a virtue.
Maybe I’m being unfair, but it’s based on the tedium of post Last Jedi discussion, where anything Star Wars related would soon have someone coming in to remind all and sundry They Didn’t Like The Thing. And never saying anything new.
Or. In certain cases? Clearly having never watched it, by referencing things that didn’t happen. That was fun.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The Critical Drinker is absolutely an outrage engine. Just look at his repeated usage of one of the favoured alt-right dog whistles "the message".
What is the message? That's up to the viewer to insert their own particular brand of anti-whatever to fit.
Try watching some of his actual videos instead of taking a literal two second clip as his entire content. When the Drinker uses that particular meme, it's to point out something a woman has done in media that would get a man LYNCHED if he did it.
So - it turns out that they filmed a scene with...
Spoiler:
Jude Law's Jedi mentor - played by Yasmine Al Massri.
"This was the shortest acting job I have done but the most meaningful to the child in me.. playing a Jedi for one scene in Skeleton Crew.. I gave a speech when the crew wrapped me on set saying : you just created the first Arab female Jedi.. thank you.. the scene unfortunately Didn’t make it to the finale cut bc these things happen.. but I can not not share my experience and feelings.. even Liam rehearsed that scene with me and I got to brag about it with his friends which got me coolest mom respect for a moment"
Given how long it was twixt filming and release, maybe that’s being saved for another project? Like how the Nikto pirate first showed up in Mando, and was the sole survivor of their drubbing at the hands of the Mandalorians.
Not a whole show in itself, but a wee bit of “DNA” to tie stuff together a bit.
You certainly won't see me complain about leaving a flashback out. The show is fine just the way it is. No sense in taking any chances by adding clutter.
Try watching some of his actual videos instead of taking a literal two second clip as his entire content. When the Drinker uses that particular meme, it's to point out something a woman has done in media that would get a man LYNCHED if he did it.
Given all the stuff men make and proceed to inform me won't get shown/considered/made etc., I am guessing any man doing dumb 'message' would be fine?
I'll be honest, I apparently know very little Critical Drinker content. I think it shows up on my feed and I ignore it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: You certainly won't see me complain about leaving a flashback out. The show is fine just the way it is. No sense in taking any chances by adding clutter.
Yeah, its very clear where this would have had to go and it definitely would have broken up the pacing. It doesn't hurt that Jude Law tells it like a child remembers in a way that very much accomplished whatever was filmed quite effectively. It also gives him a moment of vulnerability that makes it clear that whatever monster he's become, he doesn't want to be the monster that made him. Definitely the right call removing the scene, though it would be nice to do something with it somehow.
Looking to the future, the projects we know are coming include, and this may be a complete list…
Andor S2, coming very soon
Ahsoka S2, well into production
The Mandalorian and Grogu, filming complete, releasing in theatres in 2026
Untitled Rey movie
So there’s likely to be a period of scant Star Wars releases. Whilst I’ve enjoyed everything except the last season of Bad Batch? I think a rest will be good.
But I’m now wondering what sort of content others might like.
I wouldn’t say no to more standalone movies and shows. After all, it’s a vast galaxy, and can be adapted to a number of genres. In particular I think there’s potential in something following a Smuggler.
Is that scanter than what we got last year? Asking for a friend with bad memory.
Like I said before, I think there are worse things than a few standalone shows to fill out the time between the original and sequel trilogy, provided they're interesting and as well made as Skeleton Crew.
And maybe a drama about a First Order logistics officer who (maybe not so) slowly succumbs to alcoholism trying to set up all the things shown in the sequels.
Geifer wrote: You certainly won't see me complain about leaving a flashback out. The show is fine just the way it is. No sense in taking any chances by adding clutter.
Yeah, its very clear where this would have had to go and it definitely would have broken up the pacing. It doesn't hurt that Jude Law tells it like a child remembers in a way that very much accomplished whatever was filmed quite effectively. It also gives him a moment of vulnerability that makes it clear that whatever monster he's become, he doesn't want to be the monster that made him. Definitely the right call removing the scene, though it would be nice to do something with it somehow.
It doesn't hurt that I like Jude Law. I'm perfectly happy for him to act out that part over seeing such a flashback. But it's also that by itself it isn't a stylistic fit for the rest of the show, and because the protagonists are kids there's really no room to flash back to earlier times in a way that is meaningful to them. So the Jedi flashback would stand pretty much alone.
And maybe a drama about a First Order logistics officer who (maybe not so) slowly succumbs to alcoholism trying to set up all the things shown in the sequels.
Increasingly addicted to blue milk, logistics officer McKinley became increasingly belligerent, his final act being punching Kylo Ren for spilling his drink.
And maybe a drama about a First Order logistics officer who (maybe not so) slowly succumbs to alcoholism trying to set up all the things shown in the sequels.
Increasingly addicted to blue milk, logistics officer McKinley became increasingly belligerent, his final act being punching Kylo Ren for spilling his drink.
If they make a Lower Decks style series with this premise, I will get a third job to obtain D+
I think they should bring JJ back to make his own version of Episode 8, and Rian back to make his version of Episodes 7 and 9, and leave it up to everyone to decide which is canon for themselves...
Seriously, though, I'd love to see more Rogue One-style one-offs fleshing out stuff in different places.
The probably-not-happening-anymore Rogue Squadron movie.
More High/Old Republic content.
A 'Tales of the Bounty Hunters' series, tweaked to fit the current continuity.
An Old Man Rex movie (Fistful of Dollars meets Die Hard)
'Pimp my Droid' - a reality series showcasing people bringing their droids to Babu Frik for a makeover. (ok, maybe not...)
I would also still like to see the next Solo movie, and Rian Johnson's standalone, 'not a Skywalker Saga' trilogy, but those seem unlikely to happen at this point.
Oh, and maybe a series following a former rebel turned freelancer/smuggler tooling about the galaxy and trying to avoid Imperial Entanglements in a rundown ship with his misfit crew... say, the Captain's former 2ic, a slightly crazy but skilled (and Rancor-obsessed) pilot, a bubbly but naive WA Droid mechanic, an unscrupulous Wookie hired gun, and some passengers.. say, a high-class Twi-lek escort, a Jedi-in-hiding, and a young doctor on the run with his sister, a brainwashed Imperial Hand trainee...
Oh, and maybe a series following a former rebel turned freelancer/smuggler tooling about the galaxy and trying to avoid Imperial Entanglements in a rundown ship with his misfit crew... say, the Captain's former 2ic, a slightly crazy but skilled (and Rancor-obsessed) pilot, a bubbly but naive WA Droid mechanic, an unscrupulous Wookie hired gun, and some passengers.. say, a high-class Twi-lek escort, a Jedi-in-hiding, and a young doctor on the run with his sister, a brainwashed Imperial Hand trainee...
Oh, and maybe a series following a former rebel turned freelancer/smuggler tooling about the galaxy and trying to avoid Imperial Entanglements in a rundown ship with his misfit crew... say, the Captain's former 2ic, a slightly crazy but skilled (and Rancor-obsessed) pilot, a bubbly but naive WA Droid mechanic, an unscrupulous Wookie hired gun, and some passengers.. say, a high-class Twi-lek escort, a Jedi-in-hiding, and a young doctor on the run with his sister, a brainwashed Imperial Hand trainee...
First? Write a decent Genre Film. As in, if filmed straight, it would stand entirely on its own two feet.
From there? Adapt it to your chosen setting. Bells, whistles, perhaps a little froufrou even.
For instance? A Heist movie. Make the plot make sense without Space Wizard Magic first. Then see where you might be able to add Space Magic fun. As in for stuff where Jedi Mind Tricks exist? How might someone ensure security. Droids? Hutts? Toydarians? All known to be at least resistant to Jedi Mind Tricks. If they’re the guard (or another species with the same quirk) what’s the way around that for our heroes?
As I type this, I’m listening to Figrin Da’an and the Modal Nodes. This is exactly the sort of frou-frou detailing I’m meaning. A New Hope had a bar/cantina scene. Great. That’s how Luke and Ben find Han and Chewie, as they need a trip off planet. But it’s the other inhabitants and this weird, recognisable but clearly not “normal” music which elevates that scene, and for me really sells Star Wars. Give the extras, costumes and effects in that scene? It must’ve cost a pretty decent amount for “are you sure George? Are you absolutely sure you want to spend that much money on a bunch of creature masks we’ll see for like, half a second in a two hour film” stuff.
A Town Called Malus wrote: That trailer gives a very different feel to season 1. We'll see whether that is just trailers doing trailer things
The music is terrible, but seeing Cassian get stuck in is the, for me at least, expected continuation. Sure, ideally he's still sneaky about some of his work, but empires don't topple themselves. There comes a point when you just gotta blow gak up.
A Town Called Malus wrote: That trailer gives a very different feel to season 1. We'll see whether that is just trailers doing trailer things
The music is terrible, but seeing Cassian get stuck in is the, for me at least, expected continuation. Sure, ideally he's still sneaky about some of his work, but empires don't topple themselves. There comes a point when you just gotta blow gak up.
Oh for sure, I was expecting we see more stuff like that. I'm just hoping they haven't cut out the planning and prep stages completely as they often allowed for Cassian's qualities to shine through, such as his attention to detail, like in the prep for the Aldhani garrison heist.
Geifer wrote: Yeah, they really missed a trick there. We deserve the 5-minute Snyder Cut of a 2-minute planning scene for a trailer. They could have made real art.
You guys all joke, but that Downfall meme is just two minutes of people arguing over a map, and it’s generated tens of hours of amusing variations. Star Wars has done a lot worse than a long map scene.
So that was a kick ass trailer, and while Star Wars doesn't do contemporary music, that's a cracking rebellion song. Though perhaps does further highlight that we are watching something that merely has a star wars skin.
For the first time in my life, I watched a video of a chap deconstructing a trailer. While interesting it did have one pertinent point. The original plan/scripting was for a five season arc, each season being a year of rebellion.
Instead we have the first season, then 4 three episode releases (looking oddly film length on each release), each apparently being a year of rebellion. Condensing a season down to a film obviously loses some development and tension building, on the other hand that tends to be more popcorn exiting. So I personally am looking forward to April!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: You guys all joke, but that Downfall meme is just two minutes of people arguing over a map, and it’s generated tens of hours of amusing variations. Star Wars has done a lot worse than a long map scene.
I'm only half joking, to be honest. Many of my favourite moments in the first season happened in the "slow" parts. Obviously the Rix Road finale was also a favourite, after all who doesn't enjoy seeing a fascist get brained with a brick? But that was only so impactful because of the slow build of tension before that, which lasted basically the entire show, to be honest, with the tendrils of the empire slowly starting to choke Ferrix more and more.
For thousands of years, it existed in an established order, and was left to get on with its business.
Then came the Clone Wars. Then came The Empire.
They’re not wild eyed anarchists. They just want to be left alone, as they once were for a vast period of time.
How many other mid and outer rim planets feel the same? Not big nor important enough to have really had much of a say in the Republic, but happy enough plugging along.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Many of my favourite moments in the first season happened in the "slow" parts.
They were brilliant and completely unexpected for a Disney/streaming/star wars programme. While streaming shows seem increasingly padded its never in a good way and I think the opportunity for that (TV slowly building the world and scene) in TV has almost died out and with the new directive for activity adjacent programmes isn't coming back.
So happy we got them, I just don't hope for them in the future anymore really.
Hopefully they give Cad Bane a proper showing compared to how much they wasted him when he made his appearance in Book of Boba. Disney has some serious issues making morally ambiguous characters the protagonist in their stories since they can't help but basically whitewash them and try to make them good guys.
More Maul coming - Star Wars: Maul - Shadow Lord announced for D+ in 2026 animated with Sam Witwer voicing Maul again set after the final season of Clone Wars
Also announced Star Wars Starfighter film for 2027 with Ryan Gosling and Shawn Levy Directing set 5 years after Rise of Skywalker - totally new cast and story.
More Maul is always good not sure about Starfighter but it's too early to tell.
Are we finally seeing more Crimson Dawn stuff? Solo left it off as basically a teaser that never went anywhere, so long as they don't pull another Book of Boba.
Do you think they will really avoid shoving somebody from the existing universe into Starfighter ?
If they can it would be a real plus but i remain unconvinced given pretty much every choice disney (and to be fair lucasfilm before them) has done so far
Grimskul wrote: Are we finally seeing more Crimson Dawn stuff? Solo left it off as basically a teaser that never went anywhere, so long as they don't pull another Book of Boba.
A few more details on Maul there was a trailer shown it’s set about a year after his fight with Ahsoka and will sit between Clone Wars and Rebels. Maul has an apprentice a red skinned female Twi’lek - looks to be Darth Talon or an early version of her. Marrok is in the trailer as is what may be a younger version of the Armorer. Hopefully the trailer gets released soon.
More Maul and criminal underworld is very welcome.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Do you think they will really avoid shoving somebody from the existing universe into Starfighter ?
If they can it would be a real plus but i remain unconvinced given pretty much every choice disney (and to be fair lucasfilm before them) has done so far
They haven't really done anything with the sequel trilogy. With good reason, of course. But if the movie is set five years after Rise of Skywalker, it wouldn't be totally awkward for big hero ace pilot Poe to show up. Maybe hold a speech or something and send the actual cast on their way.
Decided to watch the last two episodes of Andor again, ready for S2 on Wednesday.
I can’t shake the feeling that his escape from the Prison planet, running around a disused quarry and that, is a nod to classic BBC Sci Fi, like Blake’s Seven and Dr Who.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets do a hypothetical for a moment - lets say that you've never seen a single Disney+ SW show, where would you start?
The Mandalorian and Andor are the two shows I’d recommend to anyone who enjoyed the original Star Wars. I’ve heard Skeleton Crew is good, too, but haven’t seen it yet.
For fans who prefer the prequels and sequels I have no idea. The Ewok movies might be too cerebral.. There’s a rainbow of options for all tastes.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets do a hypothetical for a moment - lets say that you've never seen a single Disney+ SW show, where would you start?
The Mandalorian and Andor are the two shows I’d recommend to anyone who enjoyed the original Star Wars. I’ve heard Skeleton Crew is good, too, but haven’t seen it yet.
Something in favor of Skeleton Crew, other than that it's good, is that it's basically self-contained. You can watch the season in under six hours (even less if you skip credits and the recap of what you watched five minutes earlier) and get the complete experience.
Ahsoka, for instance, has its pilot episode nested in Mandalorian season two and is basically the live action fifth season of Rebels. And of course Ahsoka herself goes all the way back to the pilot of Clone Wars. I like it, but there's a lot of stuff you probably want to watch for context to get the most out of that show.
The Mandalorian isn't just pretty to look at but also does much of the world building for the early New Republic period. It's definitely worth watching just for that in my opinion. Even if Book of Boba is Mando season two and a half and season three is... an acquired taste.
Andor is great and you should watch it, and has the advantage that it's set prior to Rogue One and the original trilogy. You don't need additional context to what even the most casual Star Wars fan should already be familiar with.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets do a hypothetical for a moment - lets say that you've never seen a single Disney+ SW show, where would you start?
Child? Skeleton crew. A good kids adventure.
Adult? Andor. Slow first series, second series is a essentially 4? 5? film arcs leading to rogue one film that leads to star wars, but equally you will drop from modern movie making to 70's style which many today can't gel with.
Adult who can enjoy well made stuff? Skelton crew It is just a fun series.
Skeleton Crew is just a really solid show that anyone can enjoy regardless of how into Star Wars they are. Huge recommendations from me.
Mandalorian is probably the most approachable for Star Wars fans. It captures the feel of the franchise extremely well.
Andor is the best show of the bunch, but also a heavier meal than most. Absolute must watch, but not necessarily where I'd want to start.
Ahsoka is good but relies heavily on your investment in the Rebels series. If you haven't watched that one I'd guess it would fall pretty flat. Kenobi is also alright, but feels like its stretched thin to make a show when it could have been a tighter film.
The animated content is all good, but there's a LOT of it that was originally designed more as weekly content. It's worth watching but its a big ask.
Acolyte is kind of a mess. There's some bits it does really well, but definitely feels like someone tried to rewrite it in post. Boba Fett is a complete mess that I really can't recommend. The only unfortunate bit is they jammed two random episodes of the Mandalorian in it to keep it afloat so you kind of need to jump in and watch those if you get to Mandalorian season 3.
I agree. They just have a reputation that makes them easy targets for jokes. I’d rather rewatch them than an episode of Obiwan or The Acolyte or Book of Boba Tea. (Actual Boba Tea is a harder criminal than Boba Fett.)
The Ewok movies also have that old school charm due to their 80’s effects and production. For that matter, The Holiday Special has its charms compared to modern streaming slop.
I still remember stumbling across the Ewok movies in the video shop.
At that point I can’t have long learned there was more than just An New Hope, so to find even more movies blew my tiny mind (which might explain a lot)
The Gorax and its massive pet spider scared the hell out of tiny me (which again, might explain a lot).
Battle for Endor isn’t as good, but still a not at all guilty pleasure now and again.
I felt the Overseer was wasted. Such a large and interesting droid, promptly taken out. And taken out by one small stab. And then that takes out the entire electrical system of the colony. Such one tiny tiny point of failure that cripples the entire system.
AduroT wrote: I have one bad word about Skeleton Crew!
Spoiler:
I felt the Overseer was wasted. Such a large and interesting droid, promptly taken out. And taken out by one small stab. And then that takes out the entire electrical system of the colony. Such one tiny tiny point of failure that cripples the entire system.
But that’s really pretty much it.
An understandable point. I'd file it under "dramatic reasons, just go with it" like other things such as capital ships that are laughably easy to destroy, bottomless pits without guard rails and armor that doesn't work.
If you stop to think about these things, they can become really bothersome. Also when they just keep coming up. Luckily this one's an isolated issue, unlike... you know what's coming... yep... Stormtrooper aim. Sigh.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets do a hypothetical for a moment - lets say that you've never seen a single Disney+ SW show, where would you start?
Mandalorian S1 - Perfect Starwarsy adventure.
Skeleton Crew - Very Starwarsy adventure but also the Goonies. Lots of fun. Bring the kids.
Andor - What starwars could be and should be if made for adults and wanted to tackle the actual themes of rebellion and empire. Actually the best starwars out there. Not for kids.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets do a hypothetical for a moment - lets say that you've never seen a single Disney+ SW show, where would you start?
Depends what you've seen before Disney+ started showing The Mandalorian, but I'd start with Clone Wars followed by Rebels. I honestly felt that after those two shows I didn't need to go any further with Star Wars.
Lets say this hypothetical fellow had seen the Clone Wars and watched all the films, but never really got into the whole streaming thing and you were going to buy this individual a dvd, because you know he hasn't seen any of this stuff.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Lets say this hypothetical fellow had seen the Clone Wars and watched all the films, but never really got into the whole streaming thing and you were going to buy this individual a dvd, because you know he hasn't seen any of this stuff.
Mandalorian & Andor (season 1).
Then watch Andor Season 2.
Then watch Rebels followed by Ashoka
Covered in one of the animated shows, it’s the helmets. Apparently really hard to see out of, but the Empire cares more about aethetics than function.
Yep. I can totally accept Rex as a completely unbiased authority on the matter. Totally.
ingtaer wrote: Not quite as good as I was expecting given the fact that its supposed to skip a year every three episodes but still it was good enough.
I think a somewhat refrained first year is a necessary bridge that shows humble beginnings and how important...
Spoiler:
... strong leadership is to the rebellion. Without it rebels are nothing more than inbred hicks who are too dumb to live. It'll give Mon Mothma resigning from the senate and building a unifying command structure greater impact.
Also I like that the show contributes to increasing in-universe variety of music. Thumbs up for that.
I did enjoy the subtext of having a Bunch Of Angry Young Men isn’t enough.
They need discipline and direction for their, let’s face it, entirely justified anger. And whilst Luthen’s absolute ruthlessness seen in S1 is questionable? Deaths and sacrifice are sadly unavoidable if you’re to win.
When your forces and resources are comparatively tiny and far flung, but inherently imbedded in the flesh of the beast, it take skills and careful oversight to ensure the resulting stings start overwhelming it.
Rebels showed that in a Kid Friendly Way. Andor is, thus far (please stick the landing) showing the Grown Up Reality (please stick the landing), and I’m hopeful both will stick their landings (please stick the landing). Rebels absolutely did (please stick the landing), and Cassian’s fate is predetermined (please stick the landing). But there’s still plenty to go for Andor. It just needs to feel like a natural evolution.
Well, if Bunch of Angry Young Men is a euphumism for 'F****** Idiots'. You could see Andor's face as he's thinking "S***! I'm going to be killed by these morons!"
Mon Mothma's personal life seems to be taking centre stage. With knowing her old friend is about to be bumped off (good-bye Patrick*), her dill weed husband and rotten daughter, she's going to say sod it and leave them to it.
And if there's one thing you don't expect to see in Star Wars, it's an attempted rape scene.
*He's been in plenty of stuff, but he'll always be Patrick, from '90's sitcom Coupling to me. No matter what his character's name is, he's 'Patrick'.
Well, if Bunch of Angry Young Men is a euphumism for 'F****** Idiots'. You could see Andor's face as he's thinking "S***! I'm going to be killed by these morons!"
Mon Mothma's personal life seems to be taking centre stage. With knowing her old friend is about to be bumped off (good-bye Patrick*), her dill weed husband and rotten daughter, she's going to say sod it and leave them to it.
And if there's one thing you don't expect to see in Star Wars, it's an attempted rape scene.
*He's been in plenty of stuff, but he'll always be Patrick, from '90's sitcom Coupling to me. No matter what his character's name is, he's 'Patrick'.
If the rumoured time jumps this season are correct it makes a lot of sense since that would take us pretty much right up to the start of Rogue One.
I also like the plan to have a limited number of seasons rather than try to extend things if its successful. Gives the writers a definite end-point to aim for.
Actually, it was originally meant to be five seasons, with each season covering a year in the time of the show, but after the first season they decided it was too hard to do that, so changed to just doing two seasons.
That is why this second season is being split into 4 chunks of three episodes - each chunk should cover roughly what each of the reaming 4 seasons would have covered.
Yeah, that’s also mentioned in the “Andor Declassified” little behind the scenes video Disney have released. Whilst I’m glad that we’re going to get the whole story, based on the first 3- episode block I wish they’d gone for two more seasons, each with two blocks of 5-6 episodes each. Fitting the story into 3 feels a bit rushed.
Nicky J wrote: That is why this second season is being split into 4 chunks of three episodes - each chunk should cover roughly what each of the reaming 4 seasons would have covered.
While no one really agreed with my opinion that Andor S1 was dragged out and padded to an annoying degree, I actually find that choice encouraging. I don't think I'd have liked 4 more seasons with Andor's glacial pacing, but 1 more season actually moving gak along? I'm probably still not getting anyone to agree with me, but I prefer it XD
When it was first released, I did feel that the the weekly episode drop made the pacing a little frustrating. Rewatching S1 with all episodes available so I could go at my own speed was much better.
The three episode story felt rushed, but I don't really see what they could have added while keeping the flow and avoiding it feeling like unnecessary padding ... and I feel like maybe the resultant frantic feel of the story is entirely deliberate.
insaniak wrote: When it was first released, I did feel that the the weekly episode drop made the pacing a little frustrating. Rewatching S1 with all episodes available so I could go at my own speed was much better.
That's similar to my experience. I rewatched season one last week and found the experience much improved even though I didn't mind the pace when it aired weekly.
In spite of my approval of the first season, I can't say I'm bothered by the three episode format for each year season two promises. Realistically that still adds up to movie length for each year and it's long been established that you can tell a complete story in that time.
Hate the Ball Organa recast... Would have far preferred they just not include him if Smits wasn't available.
Otherwise, still excellent. Was a little surprised that they ...
Spoiler:
... killed off Cinta. The setup that one of them was going to die was pretty obvious, but given the time that Mon's been having this season, I fully expected it to be Vel that copped it.
She was Luthen's wetwork specialist. And an ideal soldier. Now he will need Cassian to do that, and he is far less reliable (though ideal for independent thievery and work where initiative is needed). We know Cassian ends up an assassin (and the trailer has him with a sniper rifle) and not highly ranked in the rebellion, so something happens to Luthen, perhaps that wouldn't have happened if Cinta was still alive, and clearly he gets tarred by event as well.
There's also that previously in the relationship between Cinta and Vel, it was Cinta that was the difficult one because she fully prioritized her work over their personal relationship. I had a very strong suspicion that she was going to get it when she returned and showed herself to be mellowed in that regard. The tiniest glimmer of hope for a happy ending is usually a death warrant for the character responsible.
Though I'm terrible at predicting such things, my guess is that due to her grief Vel is going to be a much bigger problem to Mon Mothma (and Luthen) than if her death made her just another reason for why the Empire needs to go.
I lowkey hate whenever Saw shows up. He’s a Rebel who’s always an antagonist to other Rebels and yet they keep making agreements with him like maybe he’ll keep his word with us this time.
And yet he always gets results. He's a problem for the political structure of the Alliance, but he also serves a purpose as a brick through the window. He exists to show that the fight against the Empire isn't clean.
Gert wrote: And yet he always gets results. He's a problem for the political structure of the Alliance, but he also serves a purpose as a brick through the window. He exists to show that the fight against the Empire isn't clean.
Pretty much this. He’s a totally unstable, but charismatic leader with a core of devout followers, so you can’t trust him to do anything other than hate the Empire and feth gak up. But sometimes you need a bunch of hardcore nutters to go do something that should be impossible.
He’s also arguably a catalyst for them to get their act properly together.
He can be negotiated with. We see Luthen do so. And he’s nothing if not effective. What he seems to be is kind of short sighted. His aim is to bleed the Empire as much as he can, whenever he can. But there’s nothing beyond get this mission done, do the next one, whatever that is.
How many other Saws are out there do you think? We see the Spectres take kind of similar risks, but with more of an arcing plan. And I’ll wager there are far worse than Saw out there.
This is what I really enjoy about the Rebels and Andor era, a few years before and up to Yavin. A galactic rebellion pulling itself together, striking some tactical blows which allow it to gather ever more pace, numbers and capability.
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Gert wrote: And yet he always gets results. He's a problem for the political structure of the Alliance, but he also serves a purpose as a brick through the window. He exists to show that the fight against the Empire isn't clean.
Tell me I not the only one envisaging Ralph Wiggum?
