Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The trouble with the Jedi and the Sith is they try to make The Force their own.

Though the Mortis episodes of the Clone Wars are really, really odd (and for me don’t quite work) they do show it has some kind of consciousness, and is in itself kinda neutral. It’s not good, it’s not evil, it just is.

And it does seem when one or other extreme tried to claim dominance, The Force messes back.

Which could mean Anakin was intended to destroy both Sith and Jedi, letting The Force go back to simply being.

So that was not George's intention at all. He's stated multiple times that his view of things is that there's the Force which is a state of Balance and the Dark Side that disrupts that Balance. The prophecy is about Anakin destroying the Dark Side. That is all the man who put the prophecy into the movie he made intended. Everything else is other authors trying to draw something more out of it because, like so many things in Star Wars, it wasn't really given a satisfying explanation or resolution. Many, many authors have tried to reinterpret the Force and trying to see them all as a consistent or coherent ruleset is a losing battle.

Thats all fair but the Author is Dead. What George intended also oncluded the Whills. It just doesn't matter.

 LunarSol wrote:
Honestly, the Force is just a troll. It basically only gives people visions that lead to their ruin. It's almost malicious in that regard and one of the few things its really consistent about.

Well, that is what happens when one listens to Tzeentch

 Lance845 wrote:
Thats all fair but the Author is Dead. What George intended also oncluded the Whills. It just doesn't matter.

The author may be dead, but it's also a fictional story without an objective reality backing it up. You can invent new truths for it, but you can't discern facts from the works of multiple authors the way a detective would. The majority of Star Wars at this point is authors creating their own explanations to justify things that originally had no meaning or answer. Cross referencing one author's rules with those of another doesn't give you any insight because those rules aren't based on anything tangible. Star Wars just isn't built on a foundation like that. You can wish for things to work a certain way, but trying to prove a theory based on existing material assumes a level of consistency that the series has just never actually had.

The Force as a whole representing balance and there being what's considered a light side to it isn't mutually exclusive, especially if your focus is on the Jedi. The Jedi eschew parts of the Force and thereby skew things away from its complete, balanced state. No matter how much you think the prophesy is about destroying dark side users, individually and institutionally the Jedi should be no less a target of an event that is meant to return balance. It's just a logical byproduct of what Lucas put in the movies.

It certainly can. It can be anything. That's the whole issue with malleable fiction. I just think arguing about the abandoned prophecy subplot doesn't accomplish much because we know the intentions of the man who wrote it into the script. There's no hidden truth to it. It's just a bad plot point that didn't work.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Thats all fair but the Author is Dead. What George intended also oncluded the Whills. It just doesn't matter.

The author may be dead, but it's also a fictional story without an objective reality backing it up. You can invent new truths for it, but you can't discern facts from the works of multiple authors the way a detective would. The majority of Star Wars at this point is authors creating their own explanations to justify things that originally had no meaning or answer. Cross referencing one author's rules with those of another doesn't give you any insight because those rules aren't based on anything tangible. Star Wars just isn't built on a foundation like that. You can wish for things to work a certain way, but trying to prove a theory based on existing material assumes a level of consistency that the series has just never actually had.

Agreed. Which is why the owners of the property just say what is and is not "canon".

That was George before. Or really the people he put in charge of maintaining the canon (with it's many tiers). But now that's Disney. What George intended has even less to do with anything now then it did in the past.

All I am saying is that Georges intent means basically nothing except as an interesting foot note for trivia nights.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In other news, just saw Skeleton Crew is debuting on 2 December, so fairly certain it’s been slightly brought forward.

With regard to this point, the 3rd for Europe and presumably the evening of the 2nd in America.

So rescheduled to go up a day earlier than originally advertised. Not that I mind getting my fix early.

Skellington Crew

Opening scene is fantastic! Something we’ve not seen in live action to date, and neatly illustrating that even though written for a younger audience, that doesn’t mean everyone plays nice.

Also getting initial Goonies vibes.

Right, first episode down and I really enjoyed it. I had feared the child cast would be annoying, as they so often are. But they’re alright. And we get some interesting new starship designs which is always a win in my book. And the return of some classic alien designs (Gran, Ishi Tib, Shistavanen).

Very much made in the mould of classic kids adventure shows.

It's good fun so far. There's definitely plenty there for older audiences.

I do like how many alien species make an appearance. Great to see that in live action stuff. And boy, that Ishi Tib is ded 'ard.

Also:



I mean, come on. You know I had to say it!

In terms of the tone? It’s not Battle for Endor kid friendly, and because the Gorax and its pet giant spider scared the crap out of me as a little’un, also less so than Caravan of Courage.

It’s also a bit more violent in places than A New Hope. Though given Ponda Baba’s arm, perhaps not.

So maybe not instantly suitable for the very young.

Upside is it is just a couple of scenes of violence thus far, and it does remain Star Warsy. Even so, parents might want to watch it first and decide for themselves to decide suitability for particularly young ‘uns.

And yes. That Ishi Tib is rock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also time for some spoiler considerations…

Well, it does have a 12+ rating around here, and I can see why. Some of the violence is kept just off screen, but there's still plenty that's shown. Also some fairly dark themes, I suppose. Plus a few sets that are on the creepy side. And of course...

I’d say the 12+ is justified.

Gonna stick it on again, as I was watching it whilst working earlier and may have missed stuff.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also time for some spoiler considerations…

Spoiler:

So, the kids’ home planet is a mythical treasure planet, eh? And we have to assume SM-33’s former crew mates had been on a mission to find it.

And they were paying in Republic Credits. Not New Republic. Old Republic. And it has some kind of barrier, which I presume played some role in the ship stacking it in the first place.

What’s going on there then, I wonder! Could it be a secret enclave of some kind which somehow avoided the Clone Wars and that onward? Very intriguing.

On the first point...



On the planet...

So, knowing what to look for?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, knowing what to look for?

Spoiler:

There are indeed no stars in the night sky. There seems to be an aurora of some kind, and a grid pattern of red dots. Possibly a planet scale cloaking field? It can’t be a regular shield, otherwise the ship would’ve crashed into it, as we see in Rogue One.

And the references there are all Republic, as well as the currency.

Definitely intrigued to find out more!

There’s also

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

I feel this just strengthens my point. Why would the Jedi treat a really vague prophecy, from who knows where and when, as something to believe when they know from first hand experience that attempting to interpret the future is incredibly hard? Why would you believe that one person would result in balancing the force, which is something that is created by and connects all living things in the galaxy?

We often chuckle about this when discussing SW on gaming nights.

Ok, so there's this prophecy where the Chosen One will balance the Force....
And then Qui-Gon comes back from a mission with this too-old-for-training kid in tow, who he claims is the Chosen One - & wants to train him.

The Jedi Council should've unanimously been like "HELL NO! Put him back where you found him, now!"

Because right now? Despite some Separatists, things are pretty good. The Jedi are numerous, in charge, there's no Sith....
If Ani balances the Force? That's going to change big time. There's either going to be a lot more Sith, a lot less Jedi, or both. In any event it'll be bad for the Jedi.
Oh, look what happened.

At the time of Anakin being found the Jedi were in charge, but they were weakening and dwindling. Slowly but surely it was happening and they didn't have a source or target for what was causing this very slow bleed.

Hence why forces like the Trade Federation were willing to kill two Jedi as part of their Trade Embargo.


It's also important to note that the Jedi interpretation of balance is clearly weighted heavily toward light out-balancing dark. At least in a numerical and power concept.


The Jedi were looking for a cause and found a solution. They didn't really find out the cause until later and by which point Anakin was already part trained and then things fell apart.

I was very disappointed when I got to the end of episode 2 only to find episode 3 wasn’t out yet. It’s the most enjoyable SW I have seen in ages.

Very entertaining. They’ve managed to get the scrappy kids vibe bang on.

Then started watching the new LEGO SW. Also good.

ccs wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

I feel this just strengthens my point. Why would the Jedi treat a really vague prophecy, from who knows where and when, as something to believe when they know from first hand experience that attempting to interpret the future is incredibly hard? Why would you believe that one person would result in balancing the force, which is something that is created by and connects all living things in the galaxy?

We often chuckle about this when discussing SW on gaming nights.

Ok, so there's this prophecy where the Chosen One will balance the Force....
And then Qui-Gon comes back from a mission with this too-old-for-training kid in tow, who he claims is the Chosen One - & wants to train him.

The Jedi Council should've unanimously been like "HELL NO! Put him back where you found him, now!"

Because right now? Despite some Separatists, things are pretty good. The Jedi are numerous, in charge, there's no Sith....
If Ani balances the Force? That's going to change big time. There's either going to be a lot more Sith, a lot less Jedi, or both. In any event it'll be bad for the Jedi.
Oh, look what happened.

The Jedi are losing their connection to the Force. This largely goes nowhere but is supposed to be why they care about the prophecy.

 Geifer wrote:
Well, it does have a 12+ rating around here, and I can see why. Some of the violence is kept just off screen, but there's still plenty that's shown. Also some fairly dark themes, I suppose. Plus a few sets that are on the creepy side. And of course...

Spoiler:

... actual skeletons. Who knew Skeleton Crew was going to be so literal.

Yup, I can see why it got the 12+, but for what it's worth, my girls (both under 12) both thought it was fantastic.

This show works surprisingly well. Suburban Star Wars is something I'd not have thought would work, but they really went all in on the idea here and make happen. I think of all things from the first episode, its the unnecessary parkour roll under the rising garage door that totally sold me.

The show definitely feels like The Goonies, but in Space! and I am here for that. I look forward to seeing where they go with it.

Skellington Crew E3

Another super solid episode.

Cat bird is pretty dang good, yeah. Great character.

After the Acolyte, I was VERY skeptical of Skeleton Crew.
And happy to admit I am really happy with this show; it's wonderful .Really looking forward to the rest of the series.

Whilst I’ve enjoyed all the D+ fare, I had been worried about Skellington Crew, as we heard so little about it, and its release remained unknown for yonks.

But yes. This is, I’d say objectively, a cracking show.

This one is really going great places. If the Jedi turns out to have a fake leg, we're halfway to Muppet Treasure Island! Sm-33 already has Rizzo covered, and we've got Neel, a blue guy with a trunk that nobody is quite sure how they work.

Another fun episode.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Skellington Crew E3

Another super solid episode.

Spoiler:

Kim is a really solid character design, and reminiscent of Ogra from The Dark Crystal, and some comfortable exposition.

I do like that the kids seem genuinely clueless that their home world is unusual. And a tantalising hint there are others, all purposefully hidden. But, for what reason?

And is that the first Theramin used in a Star Wars score?

I particularly enjoy Crimson Jack encountering the stubbornness of children of a certain age.

And now? Now I need to wait a week, a bloody week for the next instalment. What a cruel world!

What is that you're saying? It's outrageous and unfair to make us wait for more? Almost as outrageous and unfair as elevating someone to the Jedi council but not making him a master in the process? How could I disagree with that?

While I'm not qualified in the slightest to talk about the technical aspects of music, I really like the show's credits theme. It somehow reminds me of a tune I liked in the way back when that I hardly even remember anymore. Probably something from an 80s or early 90s video game.