zamerion wrote: The last seminar(8pm) is today(wednesday in europe and tuesday in USA ) or tomorrow (Thursday in europe and wednesday in USA ?
Next reveal is in about three quarters of an hour, and the final reveal will be four hours after that, so around 4 in the morning for us continental West Europeans.
No. It will be at 3 a.m. GMT on Thursday.
Oops, you’re right. My bad. Then the schedule is indeed confusing.
Is it?
It’s literally on a flow chart
Kinda, because if you’re just focusing on the GMT times (because you’re not in the US), it literally says 3am GMT on Wednesday, while that should then actually be Thursday.
zamerion wrote: The last seminar(8pm) is today(wednesday in europe and tuesday in USA ) or tomorrow (Thursday in europe and wednesday in USA ?
Next reveal is in about three quarters of an hour, and the final reveal will be four hours after that, so around 4 in the morning for us continental West Europeans.
No. It will be at 3 a.m. GMT on Thursday.
Oops, you’re right. My bad. Then the schedule is indeed confusing.
Is it?
It’s literally on a flow chart
Kinda, because if you’re just focusing on the GMT times (because you’re not in the US), it literally says 3am GMT on Wednesday, while that should then actually be Thursday.
Right. And the horizontal positioning of the last one makes it look like the baseline is GMT (so Wednesday 3AM GMT) because it’s further to the left than all the other boxes.
Forbidden power sounds like the Malign Sorcery book 2 (ergo more paperwork side of things - spells and abilities update). Though its impossible to say since - its just an announcement of a name. So we now have Warcry and Forbidden Powers.
Kind of a lame launch to say "NOTHING" about what its really entailing..
Sqorgar wrote: Seriously? That's it? We know roughly exactly what we already knew, plus or minus 5. Why bother building the hype up for this crap?
I didn’t know there was mention of AoS munchkin?
I think everyone really overhyped what this would be though.
It’s Gama so was never gonna be an Adepticon level reveal
(But hey, we'll get one of them soon!)
Well. I'm sorry I said mean things about the chaos commissar, at least it was an actual model. My expectations for the second reveal were low, and I'm still disappointed. (Also, Munchkin is a terrible game.)
So far we have 2 expansions, a BB team, 2 Necromunda characters, an AoS name drop and AoS Munchkin.
Yes GW, I’m absolutely certain I didn’t want to miss any of that. Keep kicking that hype train down the tracks, I’m sure it will get somewhere exciting eventually.
There's always tomorrow.
Which hopefully will be more than just one reveal. I want to see the KO warband for underworlds, but if it's just them, I'll be disappointed.
Overread wrote: Forbidden power sounds like the Malign Sorcery book 2 (ergo more paperwork side of things - spells and abilities update). Though its impossible to say since - its just an announcement of a name. So we now have Warcry and Forbidden Powers.
Kind of a lame launch to say "NOTHING" about what its really entailing..
We already heard mention of 'Forbidden Power' at the Las Vegas Open, so this is really less than nothing
This was definitely the most disappointing news yet. I saw the title and briefly got interested, but the new trailer is even shorter than the last one and tells us nothing.
Aside from the awesome haflings this has been a pretty poor set of previews so far.
Hey, do they know that you can't tease a reboot of chaos space marines and then just pretend it never happened by showing bunch of "teasers" to stuff we already have right but slightly differenter.
Good job, GW. Batting 1000 for a less exciting reveal than even last year. They are going to need to really kick it into high gear for tomorrow night's reveals (10PM local time for me, I guess it is a good thing I am a night owl).
Basically its DnD on humour - though they've now franchised out into loads of things (Girl Genius - 40K - AoS and loads of others).
You basically have a character and have to fight enemies by adding up your gear bonus and beat the enemy score. However you've also got cards to play for a bonus on your score - however everyone else in the game can also play cards on you or the monster - so they can help you win or lose.
I think you win if you reach level 10 or something without being killed - but its been a few years since I was last in a gamer group playing it.
It's basically casual silly simple fun over which alliances are formed and broken between friends fast
It’s actually a rather good card game that pokes fun at role playing by trying to be the first player to reach level 20, all while stabbing the rest of the “ party” (the other players) in the back. Made by Steve Jackson games.
GoatboyBeta wrote: That Forbidden Power trailer makes me think that Sigmar has a basement full of locked up Stormcast berserkers who's reforgings did not go well.
There are the lightning gheists or whatever they're called. There was a short story with one being slapped around by a Sacrosanct guy.
Never got my hands on the C'tan shard bits to build one.
Well, Blackstone Fortress expansion is cool. It's nice to see more support for the game (though I hope this expansion is less than 60 USD for 2 models - 30 USD sounds much more palatable.). The models are nice too.
Forbidden Power told us exactly.......nothing? Why even have a reveal. It's basically just hinting we are getting more Stormcast....though these are the "tough anti-hero Stormcast." Yawn.....
....and another Munchkin game for another franchise......boring day for sure.
Hopefully tomorrow we will see some of the cool new Chaos stuff, learn about what Warcry is, preview a KT expansion with new minis or a new faction.....or really just anything interesting.
GoatboyBeta wrote: That Forbidden Power trailer makes me think that Sigmar has a basement full of locked up Stormcast berserkers who's reforgings did not go well.
The description of it makes me think of nothing like that. It seems to, as someone else said, be Malign Portents v2. Story progression and abilities for everyone(huzzah!), along with new missions and gameplay stuff.
Sabotage! wrote: Well, Blackstone Fortress expansion is cool. It's nice to see more support for the game (though I hope this expansion is less than 60 USD for 2 models - 30 USD sounds much more palatable.). The models are nice too.
Forbidden Power told us exactly.......nothing? Why even have a reveal. It's basically just hinting we are getting more Stormcast....though these are the "tough anti-hero Stormcast." Yawn.....
....and another Munchkin game for another franchise......boring day for sure.
Hopefully tomorrow we will see some of the cool new Chaos stuff, learn about what Warcry is, preview a KT expansion with new minis or a new faction.....or really just anything interesting.
I bet itll be more like 45.
Agree on the Stormcast. Good lord, GW. God forbid you make multiple appealing factions that aren't stormcast or khorne.
They already showed us the Elites expansion for Kill Team. Doubt they will reveal anything else for that.
I could definitely see them previewing more of the Chaos stuff that's coming. Maybe confirm Terminators at the very least.
Magic Supplement 2, Yet more Magic? and/or
Storming Storm Stormers?
Really grinding the Sigmarines down past the bare nub.
AoS Munchkin is... not the worst idea I've ever seen, but it will depend on the art, and how much of the humor is tongue in cheek and not pointed.
But not personally something I'm terribly interested in.
Hope there is something interesting tomorrow, so far its been nothing to get excited about.
Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
Actually the Age of Sigmar Munchkin is a new announcement (unless I missed something). The announcement at GenCon last year was for the Warhammer 40,000 Munchkin...
Starfarer wrote: Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
The price of the expansions might have something to do with it...?
Really like the two models from the BSF expansion, but must agree that this expansion is a bit underwhelming. Really needed some chaff to go with them cause as is, it seems incomplete
Starfarer wrote: Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
When they do something with the models, I'll get excited. A real inquisitor type game... well, that would depend on them doing one, and if it was any good (which inquisitor wasn't).
BSF was a good starting point for traitor guard with a touch of support, but the way they're expanding it isn't.
If it turns out to be the fore-runner of a non-marine chaos renegades army, I'll care a lot more. As is, BSF amounts to a squad and a half of variant cultists, and a couple proxies.
And a handful of cool one-off models to paint, that don't have much use.
Starfarer wrote:Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
The recent pricing has been kinda lame, I for one am excited to get more traitor guard stuff. I'm waiting on a bunch of guard from BSF and want more to supplement my shadowspear chaos marines.
Starfarer wrote: Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
The price of the expansions might have something to do with it...?
What price has been announced for Traitor Command?
Maybe you should pay attentions to the reasons for the pissing and moaning.
Well the reasons seem to shift back and forth regardless of what's released so it's hard to keep track of what is actually a problem and what's just the hobby of being outraged by anything GW.
If it turns out to be the fore-runner of a non-marine chaos renegades army, I'll care a lot more. As is, BSF amounts to a squad and a half of variant cultists, and a couple proxies.
Starfarer wrote: Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Just the existence of Rogue Traders, minor Xenos species, Traitor Guard, Renegade Ogryns and the like, all in plastic, was unthinkable less than a year ago. Now we have it and people still piss and moan. The stuff we're getting in the last year is the cumulative wishlists of this forum spanning a decade or more and now that we have it, it's met with a shrug at best.
The price of the expansions might have something to do with it...?
What price has been announced for Traitor Command?
Maybe you should pay attentions to the reasons for the pissing and moaning.
Well the reasons seem to shift back and forth regardless of what's released so it's hard to keep track of what is actually a problem and what's just the hobby of being outraged by anything GW.
Starfarer wrote: Well the reasons seem to shift back and forth regardless of what's released so it's hard to keep track of what is actually a problem and what's just the hobby of being outraged by anything GW.
Ah c'mon! You're selling yourself short. The rest of us can keep up, so I have to presume you can too!
Sabotage! wrote: Well, Blackstone Fortress expansion is cool. It's nice to see more support for the game (though I hope this expansion is less than 60 USD for 2 models - 30 USD sounds much more palatable.). The models are nice too.
Forbidden Power told us exactly.......nothing? Why even have a reveal. It's basically just hinting we are getting more Stormcast....though these are the "tough anti-hero Stormcast." Yawn.....
....and another Munchkin game for another franchise......boring day for sure.
Hopefully tomorrow we will see some of the cool new Chaos stuff, learn about what Warcry is, preview a KT expansion with new minis or a new faction.....or really just anything interesting.
I bet itll be more like 45.
Agree on the Stormcast. Good lord, GW. God forbid you make multiple appealing factions that aren't stormcast or khorne.
They already showed us the Elites expansion for Kill Team. Doubt they will reveal anything else for that.
I could definitely see them previewing more of the Chaos stuff that's coming. Maybe confirm Terminators at the very least.
I could get behind 45 if there are lots of game content aside from the few minis and the couple cards previewed.
Stormcast are neat, but are way too overdone, they already have more options than pretty much any two factions combined. It's kind of sad that GW might do a new Stormcast release when their last non-Stormcast (new) armies Gloomspite Gitz, Deepkin, and Nighthaunt have all been really unique and awesome. I'd love to see more stuff like that. I'm hoping Forbidden Power is just an expansion book with maybe some new endless spells.
Yeah, we probably won't get anything more for KT. Kind of a bummer because I was hoping they would announce something interesting (or even a combined rulebook with the core rules, HQs, and Elites or what not).
I would be happy to see the new Terminators previewed. I bet they will look fantastic.
Hulksmash wrote:Remember this is coming 2 weeks before Adepticon. Thats their big reveal place. This i for smaller releases it feels like.
That's a good point.....don't know why I hadn't considered that. My money is at Adepticon is when we'll see the Warcry reveal.
Review of the reveals so far.
Haflings. Not my game but some fantastic models 9/10
Killteam elites. Adds more to the game but not super exciting. 6/10
Kal and scabs. Decent sculpts but I would prefer something new 6/10
Blackstone expansion. Looks pretty thin on content 4/10
Munchkin OK I guess 5/10
Forbidden Power. A total waste of a reveal. Come back when you are actually ready to talk about your product. 0/10
I hope we see something cool tomorrow but the reveals so far haven't exactly got me hyped.
Overread wrote: Forbidden power sounds like the Malign Sorcery book 2 (ergo more paperwork side of things - spells and abilities update). Though its impossible to say since - its just an announcement of a name. So we now have Warcry and Forbidden Powers.
Kind of a lame launch to say "NOTHING" about what its really entailing..
We already heard mention of 'Forbidden Power' at the Las Vegas Open, so this is really less than nothing
GW, you are not Marvel! One teaser is fine, two ISN'T!
Starfarer wrote: Well the reasons seem to shift back and forth regardless of what's released so it's hard to keep track of what is actually a problem and what's just the hobby of being outraged by anything GW.
Ah c'mon! You're selling yourself short. The rest of us can keep up, so I have to presume you can too!
Why don't you spell it out for me? I'm sure you can share a well reasoned, objective argument. You haven't yet, but I'm sure you can if you have one!
The BSF expansions are quite sparse in their content given their cost. The value prospect of each one is lacking compared to other releases. One big mini for AUD$100? 2 smaller ones for what will undoubtedly be the same cost?
(NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
There are other arguments regarding the quality of the miniatures (I have no qualms here), and whether it represents a future release of a Lost & The Damned/Traitor Guard army (I have no real dog in that fight) but I think it's pretty clear that boiling down the myriad of legitimate concerns to just "pissing and moaning" is not only really insulting Starfarer but also, you'know, just kinda dumb.
My theory is that these Stormvaults were actually referenced in the Flesh Eater Court Battletome. As Hollowmourne started off as a army of knights seeking out hidden vaults that contained dangerous magical artifacts and were hidden by an “Emperor”.
The BSF expansions are quite sparse in their content given their cost. The value prospect of each one is lacking compared to other releases. One big mini for AUD$100? 2 smaller ones for what will undoubtedly be the same cost?
(NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
There are other arguments regarding the quality of the miniatures (I have no qualms here), and whether it represents a future release of a Lost & The Damned/Traitor Guard army (I have no real dog in that fight) but I think it's pretty clear that boiling down the myriad of legitimate concerns to just "pissing and moaning" is not only really insulting Starfarer but also, you'know, just kinda dumb.
Let's compare the Traitor Command, assuming it's the same cost as the Ambull, $60USD.
Most Ogre/Ogyrn single figure models have been around $25. Most non-SM character models have been around $25. So 2 of those models plus the rules, cards, etc. For $60 seems fairly consistent with GW's pricing. Whether than is worth it is up to everyone to decide for themself.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
Tohe fair, alot of the boxed under Roundtree have effectively been the needed super deals in getting alot of value for buck, and I think alot of people (myself included) expected to see that trend continue.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
Carlovonsexron wrote: Tohe fair, alot of the boxed under Roundtree have effectively been the needed super deals in getting alot of value for buck, and I think alot of people (myself included) expected to see that trend continue.
The Super Deals come on the core sets, not the optional expansions - that's the model. They lure you in on the shiny box set, and if you're into that product enough, you'll buy the optional add on at the premium price.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
Well, for one, you're comparing products from 2 separate games. Necromunda is done by Specialist Games Studios at Forgeworld, despite the plastic releases they get. Blackstone Fortress is a main GW release.
That said, I don't think the Ambull is worth the price. Even at $50 from online retailers it's a stretch for me. But the market dictates what is acceptable. If products just aren't selling at the pics they list them for they will adjust the prices. I think we'll know if the Ambull release was successful if the Traitor Command is also $60. I also expect the Imperial models teased for Combat Arena to be higher than $60, probably $75 or $85 when they're released for BSF. We'll see prices adjusted depending on what the market will allow though. You don't have to like the prices, and this statement isn't directed at you, but the constant clutching of pearls with each new GW release is tiresome.
That said, I don't think the Ambull is worth the price. Even at $50 from online retailers it's a stretch for me. But the market dictates what is acceptable. If products just aren't selling at the pics they list them for they will adjust the prices. I think we'll know if the Ambull release was successful if the Traitor Command is also $60.
This is a great point, but I fear that GW's regional pricing model will complicate their view of successful sales and potentially allow the perpetuation of overpriced expansions. The Ambull is £35 (including VAT), and discounters can sell at just over 20% off over there, so you can easily find it for £28 all-in ($36.65). In the US you're limited to 15% discount as a rule, and then you may need to add sales tax on top, so $51+tax. It could sell terribly in the States but sell great in the UK, so the next expansion will end up priced in line with this.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
You know, if spent like, a tenth of the effort you put into post-wrong sarcasm into perhaps not being wrong in the first place this board wouldn't even need GW rumors as you'd be able to provide detailed, accurate list on demand up to like 2100 or so.
Also, speaking of not being wrong, how about attempting to learn actual spelling of real, just five letter word? It can't be too difficult, even third grade kids manage to do it. Or will we see more really forced, PA quips instead, perhaps "I meant to do that" old excuse?
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
You mean stuff like this?
- A 16-page Dreaded Ambull Booklet full of rules and background information for the expansion.
- 18 Discovery Cards
- 10 Exporation Cards
- 3 Encounter Cards
- 3 Hostile Reference Cards
- A single Lair of the Beast envelope
- A double-sided punchboard full of useful tokens and markers
- A Lair of the Beast sheet that includes board set up details, rules, an event table and victory conditions.
This is Warcry – a new skirmish game from the makers of Kill Team and Warhammer Underworlds that allows you to experience the visceral carnage of battle in the Mortal Realms in a whole new way.
This is more than just a skirmish version of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – it’s hyper-kinetic, it’s tactical and it’s very, very bloody, featuring bold new game mechanics.
Warcry is perfect for narrative players looking to forge character-driven campaigns where warbands grow and develop through their own journey. Meanwhile, gamers looking for a close-matched, fast and exciting experience will find a game that fits both their coffee table and coffee break.
In the game, you’ll follow the myriad tribes of Chaos – reavers and despoilers from every corner of the realms – as they make their dark pilgrimage to the Varanspire. Warcry explores a never-before-seen side of life (and death!) in the Age of Sigmar. Every model for this game is brand new, reflecting on the dizzying diversity of Chaos on a scale never attempted before and rooted in rich lore that realises the servants of the Dark Gods as deep and varied cultures.
We’ll have more Warcry news for you (and some closer looks at those stunning models!) in the coming weeks – make sure to subscribe to our email newsletter and follow our Facebook page to make sure you don’t miss any announcements.
Chopstick wrote: Warcry, it's Killteam but with unique "tribes". So basically it's AoS "Necromunda/Morheim" made by GW team.
Looks like there is six tribes, each with their own icons. I'm curious to see if this will have seasons like Shadespire with new factions, or if it will be more about customizing a single gang with multiple releases within each gang. I was hoping for something to use other AoS models in, but I think I'm okay with it going the Necromunda route (mainly because I don't think Necromunda gets nearly enough support, and seems almost like a distant second to Frostgrave). The terrain doesn't look nearly as modular as Sector Mechanicus or Imperialis, but it's got catwalks at least.
Since this is taking place at the Eightpoints, I’m guessing the different war bands come from the different realms? I’d bet that the bony, tribal guys are from Ghur and the dive-helmet guys are from Chamon.
Warcry sounds like what I've been waiting for. Nothing but nutty crazy Chaos stuff killing each other. No extra decks or cards or special dice either.
Hoping that scenery is included as well. Probably at the new Shadowspear price point though. Guess I at least have time to start saving pennies for it!
The arms look kinda stubby, beard is braided, looks kinda fireslayer esque in its proportions. It very well could be...and if it is...well it's about darn time chaos dwarfs got something in plastic.
Honestly though for me the appeal of the chaos dwarfs lied with hashut, their lore, the darklands and ash wastes and their relationship with greenskins, mutations. Without all that lore and background from the old world then they are just bland and lacking. I doubt aos chorfs would be able to match that, unless they had new lore written from the ground up that was actually interesting.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
Yep, that's me too. I was looking at getting the Ambull on its own (I don't own BSF - almost got it, but then my favoured seller stopped selling to Australia, so the price jumped ~20%), but the price is just way too high. Even if I had the base game, paying roughly half as much again for a single miniature (with two token freebie not-big-enoug-to-count-as-their-own-miniatures) is just not feasible.
Interestingly, I am spending less in total with the recent price hikes, as, although I could say "i'll just spend the same, and buy less", what I'm actually feeling like is "this is not worth $X", and thus not getting it.
The arms look kinda stubby, beard is braided, looks kinda fireslayer esque in its proportions. It very well could be...and if it is...well it's about darn time chaos dwarfs got something in plastic.
Honestly though for me the appeal of the chaos dwarfs lied with hashut, their lore, the darklands and ash wastes and their relationship with greenskins, mutations. Without all that lore and background from the old world then they are just bland and lacking. I doubt aos chorfs would be able to match that, unless they had new lore written from the ground up that was actually interesting.
Agreed, but then, pretty much everything about AOS (bar a few exception) is bland and lacking
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Forgive my ignorance but isn't AoS already a skirmish game replacing the mass battle WHF?
What we need is an Xhibit meme
Yo dawg, we heard you like skirmish so we made a skirmish ruleset for your skirmish ruleset so you can play skirmish games while playing skirmish games!
A bit late to speak up, but Elites strike me as nothing more than the Special Operatives from Shadow War: Armageddon, with a few more model stats thrown in.
Dang.....I thought this was a lackluster event for previews and then Warcry came along and I'm stunned. Following the progression of warring Chaos tribes in a skirmish game that can be played on a coffee table and a game can be played in a (UK) lunch break? Models that are 100% unique and full of flavor?
So basically a spiritual successor to Mordheim (mixed with the original Path to Glory WD article) with shorter game times, small table footprint, and Chaos tribes as the focus (and presumably a less robust campaign system)?
Sign me up......this is pretty much all I've ever wanted for GW.
Also six factions?
Looks like the red guys will be Khorne affiliated. I'm guessing the Raven emblem has to do with Tzeentch? The Serpent Slaanesh?
Just finished painting the Godsworn Hunt warband, some of the best models GW has put out for a long time. Currently working on the Darkoath Warqueen, while reading the Warqueen novella.
Looks like the Warcry clans could be realm specific. The two shown in the vid would IMO fit with the realm of metal and the realm of beasts. Either way I'm looking forward to more info.
Edit - Looks like they are on a Kill Team style card printed battlemat.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Looks like the Warcry clans could be realm specific. The two shown in the vid would IMO fit with the realm of metal and the realm of beasts. Either way I'm looking forward to more info.
Edit - Looks like they are on a Kill Team style card printed battlemat.
That would make sense with the printed battlemat, I believe KT was originally advertised to fit on a coffee table too. GW seems to have everything set up for designing 22"x30" mats, so I don't imagine they would change it.
And the terrain looks just like an AoS version of that modular stuff from Kill Team (that’s in several other sets in general, but that’s what I have it from..)
Can anyone spot the 5th and 6th faction? I see Gladiators, Darkoath, Beastmen, Harpies. For a moment I thought there was a Skaven, but now I think that's just a Darkoath with a skull hat.
lord_blackfang wrote: Can anyone spot the 5th and 6th faction? I see Gladiators, Darkoath, Beastmen, Harpies. For a moment I thought there was a Skaven, but now I think that's just a Darkoath with a skull hat.
I don't think the Beastmen or Harpies are a faction per say. The Darkoath looking ones are the best skull symbol and Gate is the armored guys in red. It looks like we have only seen two factions. I'm guessing the Furies and Monsters in the core set are probably miniatures that can join any tribe or are random hazards in certain missions.
lord_blackfang wrote: Can anyone spot the 5th and 6th faction? I see Gladiators, Darkoath, Beastmen, Harpies. For a moment I thought there was a Skaven, but now I think that's just a Darkoath with a skull hat.
I don't think the Beastmen or Harpies are a faction per say. The Darkoath looking ones are the best skull symbol and Gate is the armored guys in red. It looks like we have only seen two factions. I'm guessing the Furies and Monsters in the core set are probably miniatures that can join any tribe or are random hazards in certain missions.
But they both clearly have faction symbols in the lineup.
lord_blackfang wrote: Can anyone spot the 5th and 6th faction? I see Gladiators, Darkoath, Beastmen, Harpies. For a moment I thought there was a Skaven, but now I think that's just a Darkoath with a skull hat.
I don't think the Beastmen or Harpies are a faction per say. The Darkoath looking ones are the best skull symbol and Gate is the armored guys in red. It looks like we have only seen two factions. I'm guessing the Furies and Monsters in the core set are probably miniatures that can join any tribe or are random hazards in certain missions.
But they both clearly have faction symbols in the lineup.
The ram’s head symbol is for the warriors with the bone weapons and horned helms, not Beastmen per se but likely from the realm of beasts.
lord_blackfang wrote: Can anyone spot the 5th and 6th faction? I see Gladiators, Darkoath, Beastmen, Harpies. For a moment I thought there was a Skaven, but now I think that's just a Darkoath with a skull hat.
I don't think the Beastmen or Harpies are a faction per say. The Darkoath looking ones are the best skull symbol and Gate is the armored guys in red. It looks like we have only seen two factions. I'm guessing the Furies and Monsters in the core set are probably miniatures that can join any tribe or are random hazards in certain missions.
But they both clearly have faction symbols in the lineup.
At 31 seconds in the video they show beast skull faction symbol below one of the Darkoath looking guys on a split screen opposite one of the red armored dudes with the gate symbol below him. If pause the video at one point you can see one of The furies faces, and they are not bird like. I think it's pretty safe to say we have only seen two factions, though there is a guy in the art towards the beginning of the video that looks as if he could belong to a third.
Starfarer wrote:Funny to hear that after years and years of people hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game, GW basically gives us that with so many of the Blackstone Fortress models, and it's immediately shot down upon reception.
Yah, because the people that was hoping for an Inq28/Inquisimunda type game was looking for an expensive boardgame with minimum character personalization and (so far) outrageously expensive expansions with very little content.
Oh, wait...
Starfarer wrote:What price has been announced for Traitor Command?
None so far, and we only have a single datapoint so far... which seems to be of the exact same size than this new expansion.
Well the reasons seem to shift back and forth regardless of what's released so it's hard to keep track of what is actually a problem and what's just the hobby of being outraged by anything GW.
Almost as if different people was giving different reasons, or something.
The facts as I know them are:
- The people that wanted an Inq28/Inquisimunda game wanted an Inq28/Inquisimunda, not a Warhammer Quest game. So they would still want it, and would not be the default target audiencie for BSF.
- The people that wanted an Inq28/Inquisimunda but still want the BSF models for it believe that the price point of the expansions (of which they have a single datapoint so far) think it's outrageous for that.
- Some of the people that wanted a 40k Quest game, which logically would be either boardgamers that like 40k (or well, not, but those would be less) or 40k players that play boardgames (not exactly the same) believe that the BSF expansions (of which they have a single datapoint so far) are too expensive for what they bring to the boardgame. And objectively speaking, they are very expensive for boardgame standards.
I mean, I can totally be wrong, but it seems to be the gist of it.
The BSF expansions are quite sparse in their content given their cost. The value prospect of each one is lacking compared to other releases. One big mini for AUD$100? 2 smaller ones for what will undoubtedly be the same cost?
(NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
Eh? The Dreaded Ambull and the Traitor Command boxes do contain new quests, miniatures and cards. And some tile overlays, at least in the case of the Dreaded Ambull. They're perhaps closer to the character packs than the two big campaign expansions admittedly.
I'm pretty sure there are only three factions in that video. The guys with gate logo and the armour made of coins, the ram skull guys with a pet hound, and the harries with some pet birds. It looks like about six minis per faction.
I love the Warcry stuff. LOVE it. It's nice to see GW pulling off very differently flavoured Chaos models these days, after they got into a bit of a rut with very same-y Khorne and Nurgle designs for both 40k and Fantsy/AoS vor ages. Stuff that I like, mind you, but a group of red armoured guys and gals (and dwarfs) with fish bowl helmets and tenderisers are much more exciting then even more Blood Warriors with different spikes and axes...and they're the weaker faction compared to the lovely fur fans!
The faction symbols alone are so intriguing that my mind is wondering what'll be shown for them. The tanky/gladiatoral faction for example has a gate or steel fence looking symbol, so they're tough guys that both defend *and* break fortifications? Their blunt weapons tie into that very well, smash them doors! So what'll the snake faction turn out to be? Snake (beast)men? Dragon tamers? Chaos ninjas?!
The only complaints (besides price, maybe, and that IT IS NOT OUT ALREADY) I can think about would be:
1) Maybe weak campaign mode, sadly GW is not as good at this right now, probably because they don't have the same "just convert your dudes with tripple power fists if you can afford them" mentality of old
2) Only Chaos teams.
For 1) there'll be house rules by some clever guys I bet and for 2), well, I can see stuff like Stormcast strike teams and witch hunter retinues in the future, send to stop the Chaos worshippers from reaching the Varanspire or Orks drawn there to have a scrap with the toughened survivors, I mean, where better to find good opponents? Again, if GW doesn't do it and the game is fun enough, fan content will port in other races or you can simply use count-as and build your own warband.
Depending on the success of the game and the campaign system they made, they could release "Commander" and "Elite" expansions for each faction, showing your tribes ascension to glory/Chaos Warrior status/juicy mutations on the way to the top. There's a lot of stuff the sell here if they to this right!
PS: Now my HATE models have a very clear purpose outside of maybe playing the boardgame: proxies for unreleased Warcry factions. They're perfect
I just really (naively?) hope it doesn’t follow the Necromunda release style. I want all 6 factions in the book please, don’t string out the rules across half a dozen products.
Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.
The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.
Nostromodamus wrote: I just really (naively?) hope it doesn’t follow the Necromunda release style. I want all 6 factions in the book please, don’t string out the rules across half a dozen products.
Well, Necromunda is held back by limited resources in the Specialist Games studio, a problem which Warcry will not have. Then again, Kill Team is also coming out piecemeal, so nickel and diming us on DLC is just a thing GW likes to do nowadays.
JohnnyHell wrote: Who says it’s a throwaway? When more info comes I bet you it’s their “AoS Kill Team” with “support for years to come” (aka boxes for you to buy).
Could care less, there isn't even a kill team starter set on sale anymore. There isn't any good "intro deals" into that game where you save money on the initial buy in. Plus i'm seeing people complain already about their factions not being represented in warcry. If you have a group of people who goes balls deep in the game on launch then good, but for those of us who play pick up games and don't have an abundance of serious gamer friends then this particular game might not be smart purchase.
JohnnyHell wrote: Who says it’s a throwaway? When more info comes I bet you it’s their “AoS Kill Team” with “support for years to come” (aka boxes for you to buy).
Could care less, there isn't even a kill team starter set on sale anymore. There isn't any good "intro deals" into that game where you save money on the initial buy in. Plus i'm seeing people complain already about their factions not being represented in warcry. If you have a group of people who goes balls deep in the game on launch then good, but for those of us who play pick up games and don't have an abundance of serious gamer friends then this particular game might not be smart purchase.
I think you missed the snark in my inverted commas. And it doesn’t appear to represent any regular factions, note a fleshing out of Chaos into tribes. But, again, extrapolating all from one video. Wait for more info.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There's still one more reveal tomorrow, right?
Nope
WarCom article wrote:And that’s all from GAMA! Let us know what you’re most excited about on the Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Warhammer 40,000, Necromunda and Blood Bowl Facebook pages.
At least the last snippet was interesting, if overly quick. Looked like some plastic furies in there, amongst some interesting chaos thugs.
Future releases are potentially a problem, but new models in the initial box look good.
The Kill Team box not being on sale is a red herring, IMO. Now I can get the rules, the Kill Team(s) and Kill Zone of my choice and not be stuck with Skitarii and Genestealer Cultists I don't want.
Since I already have a 40k collection, all I need to buy is the rulebook and off I go.
Despite not being a fan of the setting that warcry looks like it has some nice minis in it, I would like to give the game a go as well and it will be interesting to see if it plays anything like mordheim.
Rayvon wrote: Despite not being a fan of the setting that warcry looks like it has some nice minis in it, I would like to give the game a go as well and it will be interesting to see if it plays anything like mordheim.
All I saw was a bunch of up-to-date models for my Slaves to Darkness army lol
Gama goes all week though I believe (the 11-15) but these are the days they set aside for rooms and such. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t just roll a giant statue of an Adeptus Sorority Chick out on the last morning with a display case of all the models . GW equivalent of a mic drop.
Warcry looks good- the terrain looks amazing. I hope they expand the factions beyond chaos otherwise its not really my thing. A box set of kharadron explorers though ... oh yes.. will be interested to see where they go with this - hopefully the AOS equivalent of Killteam.
Warcry looks great. The Darkoath particularly are amazing. I really hope they will be expanded into a full AOS factions, they're basically the Chaos Marauders that I have always wanted.
Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
Binabik15 wrote: So what'll the snake faction turn out to be? Snake (beast)men? Dragon tamers? Chaos ninjas?!
Death by Snu Snu faction. Slaanesh is making a comeback this year after all.
Nostromodamus wrote: I just really (naively?) hope it doesn’t follow the Necromunda release style. I want all 6 factions in the book please, don’t string out the rules across half a dozen products.
Well, Necromunda is held back by limited resources in the Specialist Games studio, a problem which Warcry will not have. Then again, Kill Team is also coming out piecemeal, so nickel and diming us on DLC is just a thing GW likes to do nowadays.
I'm getting way to much DLC vibe from GW these days to get excited about Warcry just yet, but if I wanted to be hopeful (and I do - I'd really like a good AoS skirmish game) I'd would want to believe that in spite of GW's iron will to make Age of Sigmar successful, it appears to me as though they don't have the same confidence in it as they have in 40k. So maybe, just maybe, we'll get a well rounded game in the core book because they don't think they can get away with the DLC model as easily in Age of Sigmar. Maybe?
Still leaves the question how good the rules in general and the campaign system in particular will be.
Nice models, though. At least that's something we needn't worry about.
Geifer wrote: Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
Because that's what the "fans" do whenever it's something being previewed for AoS. When we saw the lightly armored figures from the initial WarCry teaser, some twerp posted a 'leak' that said it was lightly armored Stormcast and people immediately started latching onto that.
Nostromodamus wrote: I just really (naively?) hope it doesn’t follow the Necromunda release style. I want all 6 factions in the book please, don’t string out the rules across half a dozen products.
Well, Necromunda is held back by limited resources in the Specialist Games studio, a problem which Warcry will not have. Then again, Kill Team is also coming out piecemeal, so nickel and diming us on DLC is just a thing GW likes to do nowadays.
I'm getting way to much DLC vibe from GW these days to get excited about Warcry just yet, but if I wanted to be hopeful (and I do - I'd really like a good AoS skirmish game) I'd would want to believe that in spite of GW's iron will to make Age of Sigmar successful, it appears to me as though they don't have the same confidence in it as they have in 40k. So maybe, just maybe, we'll get a well rounded game in the core book because they don't think they can get away with the DLC model as easily in Age of Sigmar. Maybe?
Kill Team is pretty well-rounded in its core book. They're adding options with each of these books, and let's not pretend like people are really going to be put out when it lets you use models you already own.
Given that this whole WarCry thing seems to be set in a single locality(Varanspire)? I would be surprised if it isn't a testbed ala Shadow War Armageddon.
Possibly because they had to pull Abaddon forward.
Vigilus Countdown was (I assume) supposed to be Shadowspear, but when Shadowspear pics leaked a few days early, they posted the good pics on the Community Page.
And to not have the Vigilus Countdown end on nothing, they showed Abaddon instead?
Geifer wrote: Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
.
The voiceover - something about 'even gods make mistakes' or regrets or whatever. Plus some floating fluff about Sigmar having some crazies locked away somewhere (too many reforgings).
Also the iconography in front of the door is a sunburst, halos and two griffhound statues, which points directly at Sigmarines.
Plus 'forbidden power' fits with the 'too edgy for you' vibe they've attached to the Sigmarines. They aren't actually good, as they haul off and slaughter villages on the off chance they might be tainted by chaos or death.
Nagash doesn't work, as he's supremely unlikely to pointlessly forbid himself power.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm getting way to much DLC vibe from GW these days to get excited about Warcry just yet, but if I wanted to be hopeful (and I do - I'd really like a good AoS skirmish game) I'd would want to believe that in spite of GW's iron will to make Age of Sigmar successful, it appears to me as though they don't have the same confidence in it as they have in 40k. So maybe, just maybe, we'll get a well rounded game in the core book because they don't think they can get away with the DLC model as easily in Age of Sigmar. Maybe?
Kill Team is pretty well-rounded in its core book. They're adding options with each of these books, and let's not pretend like people are really going to be put out when it lets you use models you already own.
Given that this whole WarCry thing seems to be set in a single locality(Varanspire)? I would be surprised if it isn't a testbed ala Shadow War Armageddon.
I'm not going to clog up this thread with a Kill Team discussion, but "well rounded" is not the impression I got from the core rules. More like "half baked" or "low effort".
Anyway, I don't see what GW could possibly need a test bed for. They've done enough skirmish games in the last couple of years to know there's demand. They had their low effort AoS Skirmish already. I'm inclined to say the locality is a core book thing meant to justify new Chaos models and give a cohesive setting. If they want to introduce other settings, they can easily go and release expansions which, looking at Kill Team, Blackstone Fortress, all those campaign books for the main games etc. they seem to be doing with glee these days.
Voss wrote: Nagash doesn't work, as he's supremely unlikely to pointlessly forbid himself power.
Of course that explanation only works if we assume this was from Nagash's perspective. If it were from Sigmar's or one of his lackeys', everything their opposition does is bad by definition and so using power that's fine by Nagash is forbidden to the narrator.
I mean, that door in the trailer looks pretty Egyptian to me. Thus Nagash. There's no place like home.
Geifer wrote: Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
.
The voiceover - something about 'even gods make mistakes' or regrets or whatever. Plus some floating fluff about Sigmar having some crazies locked away somewhere (too many reforgings).
Yes. They're "locked away"(not really) in the Stormhold.
Also the iconography in front of the door is a sunburst, halos and two griffhound statues, which points directly at Sigmarines.
No, it points to Sigmar. Not "Sigmarines".
Plus 'forbidden power' fits with the 'too edgy for you' vibe they've attached to the Sigmarines. They aren't actually good, as they haul off and slaughter villages on the off chance they might be tainted by chaos or death.
How in the hell does "forbidden power" fit with Stormcast? You bring up things from the video but did you read the description associated with it?
It's supposed to be stuff for every army. Forbidden Power is the title of the product. That lines up with "Malign Portents".
Kill Team is pretty well-rounded in its core book. They're adding options with each of these books, and let's not pretend like people are really going to be put out when it lets you use models you already own.
Given that this whole WarCry thing seems to be set in a single locality(Varanspire)? I would be surprised if it isn't a testbed ala Shadow War Armageddon.
I'm not going to clog up this thread with a Kill Team discussion, but "well rounded" is not the impression I got from the core rules. More like "half baked" or "low effort".
That's your perogative, but it isn't what I got from my experience playing it.
Is it Infinity levels of complex? No. But that's a good thing.
Anyway, I don't see what GW could possibly need a test bed for. They've done enough skirmish games in the last couple of years to know there's demand. They had their low effort AoS Skirmish already. I'm inclined to say the locality is a core book thing meant to justify new Chaos models and give a cohesive setting. If they want to introduce other settings, they can easily go and release expansions which, looking at Kill Team, Blackstone Fortress, all those campaign books for the main games etc. they seem to be doing with glee these days.
None of the items for Kill Team are required though. Same goes for Blackstone Fortress and 40k(which let's be brutally frank here: there's a single campaign book for currently and a second on the way. We aren't exactly buried under them right now). There's been no campaign books for AoS2.0 yet.
Kanluwen wrote: Anyway, I don't see what GW could possibly need a test bed for. They've done enough skirmish games in the last couple of years to know there's demand. They had their low effort AoS Skirmish already. I'm inclined to say the locality is a core book thing meant to justify new Chaos models and give a cohesive setting. If they want to introduce other settings, they can easily go and release expansions which, looking at Kill Team, Blackstone Fortress, all those campaign books for the main games etc. they seem to be doing with glee these days.
None of the items for Kill Team are required though. Same goes for Blackstone Fortress and 40k(which let's be brutally frank here: there's a single campaign book for currently and a second on the way. We aren't exactly buried under them right now). There's been no campaign books for AoS2.0 yet.
I'm not sure why it would be relevant that the Kill Team expansions are optional? If GW wanted to introduce a Sylvaneth expansion to an otherwise Chaos exclusive game, they could release an expansion with rules for players who want to play Sylvaneth (that Chaos players don't need if they don't want it), a new location in the Realm of Life (or the Allpoints side of it) to give a narrative justification for the involvement of Sylvaneth (which Chaos players don't need to buy if they aren't interested in the new "Kill Zone") and it would be just as optional as Rogue Trader to someone who doesn't want to play Rogue Traders/Gellerpox or play in confined spaces.
Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying?
I was referring to campaign books from the last editions, too. In my mind it's the first taste of GW's more recent effort to sell you small rules bits on their own and splintering their games into a mess that's hard to follow.
I’m hoping the fluff progresses to the point that the Sigmarines and Chaos pull WAY back and allow for if not the World that Was to reappear in SOME way, at least a World I Recognize to form.
I particularly liked City of Secrets and hope to see things start moving more that way soon. I really like Age of Sigmar as a game, but I just got bored with the fluff.
Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)
And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.
Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)
And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.
Warcry looks interesting, just a shame it's yet another product that didn't actually need the setting change to exist. If the rules are any good and the other warbands are as appealing as those, I'll probably rework it a bit(read: change the names of stuff) to run a more "relaxed" Path to Glory(classic)/Chaos Wastes campaign.
Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)
And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.
And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.
And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.
They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!
No, no, no, every army can get tabled by them equally, how does that not enrich the game for every faction?
But on a more serious note super interested in Warcry, not what I was expecting and a little disappointed by the lack of an Alves faction but very cool regardless.
New terrain looks really cool, especially the bell tower parts, I can finally build the Bloodborne themed terrain I wanted.
Thargrim wrote: Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.
The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.
This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"
Thargrim wrote: Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.
The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.
This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"
This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.
And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.
They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!
No, no, no, every army can get tabled by them equally, how does that not enrich the game for every faction?
But on a more serious note super interested in Warcry, not what I was expecting and a little disappointed by the lack of an Alves faction but very cool regardless.
New terrain looks really cool, especially the bell tower parts, I can finally build the Bloodborne themed terrain I wanted.
Oh and I super need this beastmaster lady.
Spoiler:
While I personally could do without yet more elves (disclaimer: elves strapped to a Chaos altar are always fun and exempt) it is curious how GW on the one hand insists on the all corrupting nature of Chaos but then focuses so much on fallen humans. Even Chaos Dwarfs got super neglected for a long time. But where are the Chaos Elves? Damn shame, really.
I like that they threw in a couple of female models there. I'm still waiting for a proper Darkoath release, though, because no matter how many of these individual sculpts appear, they are just too unique for my taste. Using/converting one is fine, but the second or third at most doesn't offer you enough difference anymore. Would be cool to see a plain Darkoath core unit with a fifty fifty split to make some fun warbands out of.
Thargrim wrote: Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.
The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.
This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"
This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.
I've no doubt people play the games. However, these games pale in comparison to the number of people playing base 40K on a weekly basis.
That's up to you to get an evening organized to play then. Personally speaking my group has board game evenings and we've played through most of the GW games on quite a regular basis.
Thargrim wrote: Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.
The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.
This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"
This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.
I've no doubt people play the games. However, these games pale in comparison to the number of people playing base 40K on a weekly basis.
So they shouldn't do anything else ever, because they won't instantly have as many players as 40k does..?
This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K.
Wrong, I'm afraid.
I've yet to see the game played in my area, but I see all those models being used in 40K weekly...
I know four people including myself who bought the game. I'm the only one who plays 40k, and I have no intent of playing 40k with them.
Yes, more people play 40k than BSF, WU, whatever. So what? These games are for people who don't necessarily want to play 40k or AoS. WU can be played in a lunch break and requires no glue or paint. BSF and WC offer a play experience that you won't get with matched play 40k or AoS. Frankly, I find that sort of thing more appealing than simply re-releasing something for 40k, even if I don't quite want to play that particular new thing.
So Warcry is to AoS as Necromunda is to 40K, a little part blown up and (hopefully) examined in hyper detail. I like some of the minis, not sure on the game.
What I find interesting is:
Shadespire*, Necromunda, Black Stone Fortress, Warcry all get new minis just for them. That's risky for an unproven game.
Shadow War Armaggedon, Kill Team get new terrain and one set of exclusive minis that don't really fit the game's theme. These were low risk games before any models were thrown in since there has be a big desire for a 40K skirmish game.
If GW decided to do a 40K Shadespire game, do you think we'd finally see new models just for it, or recycled older kits? I'm wondering the mindset of GW since all their effort seems to be in high risk stuff because they know new minis sell new games, but could be bothered to make new minis for the gateway game to their cash cow...
Chairman Aeon wrote: So Warcry is to AoS as Necromunda is to 40K, a little part blown up and (hopefully) examined in hyper detail. I like some of the minis, not sure on the game.
What I find interesting is:
Shadespire*, Necromunda, Black Stone Fortress, Warcry all get new minis just for them. That's risky for an unproven game.
Shadow War Armaggedon, Kill Team get new terrain and one set of exclusive minis that don't really fit the game's theme. These were low risk games before any models were thrown in since there has be a big desire for a 40K skirmish game.
If GW decided to do a 40K Shadespire game, do you think we'd finally see new models just for it, or recycled older kits? I'm wondering the mindset of GW since all their effort seems to be in high risk stuff because they know new minis sell new games, but could be bothered to make new minis for the gateway game to their cash cow...
You're thinking about this the wrong way. The way these games get made is that the sculptors design some cool new miniatures. Then the games developers invent a game for them. They didn't create new miniatures for Shadespire or Blackstone Fortress. The miniatures had already been created, and then had to invent games for them.
AndrewGPaul wrote: What's non-recyclable? If people are so blinkered that they won't play the games, the stuff they're binning is paper.
so much of the recent stuff comes with inserts made of both plastic and card that cant be recycled, a lot of the books cant be recycled either.
I have been helping run a bits website and ebay store over the past five years and being a bit of a hippy the sheer amount of stuff that we could not recycle really shocked me.
Chairman Aeon wrote: So Warcry is to AoS as Necromunda is to 40K, a little part blown up and (hopefully) examined in hyper detail. I like some of the minis, not sure on the game.
What I find interesting is:
Shadespire*, Necromunda, Black Stone Fortress, Warcry all get new minis just for them. That's risky for an unproven game.
Shadow War Armaggedon, Kill Team get new terrain and one set of exclusive minis that don't really fit the game's theme. These were low risk games before any models were thrown in since there has be a big desire for a 40K skirmish game.
If GW decided to do a 40K Shadespire game, do you think we'd finally see new models just for it, or recycled older kits? I'm wondering the mindset of GW since all their effort seems to be in high risk stuff because they know new minis sell new games, but could be bothered to make new minis for the gateway game to their cash cow...
I don't think its as risky as you seem to think. They've done it repeatedly now, and have done it for 40k several times, which is how we ended up with plastic assassins, some exclusive genestealer cult models (for a while) and individualized deathwatch sculpts. Plus Blackstone and Necromunda... which aren't really unproven games, any more than spacehulk was (which also had exclusive models.
If they do a 40k shadespire, I'd expect new warbands. But kill team isn't it. That's pretty much designed to use bits of your collection. Or the Rogue Trader box, which is one of a half dozen boxed games with exclusive new-at-release 40k models
AndrewGPaul wrote: What's non-recyclable? If people are so blinkered that they won't play the games, the stuff they're binning is paper.
so much of the recent stuff comes with inserts made of both plastic and card that cant be recycled, a lot of the books cant be recycled either.
I have been helping run a bits website and ebay store over the past five years and being a bit of a hippy the sheer amount of stuff that we could not recycle really shocked me.
if your recycling system can't handle books, light plastic and cardboard/card stock, you've got an institutional problem, not a GW problem.
Also don't forget that unique models for niche games can be released for the main game - all GW has to do is repack them in a new box and put it on sale since the moulds would already be made. There's nothing to stop them ending something like Shadspire and just putting the warbands on general sale for their respective armies.
Overread wrote: Also don't forget that unique models for niche games can be released for the main game - all GW has to do is repack them in a new box and put it on sale since the moulds would already be made. There's nothing to stop them ending something like Shadspire and just putting the warbands on general sale for their respective armies.
They already do this. I know the khorne warbands are in the web store under AoS, as are the tzeentch characters from Silver Tower.
Magores fiends are either $30 as the underworlds pack with cards, or $25 as an easy to build kit under blades of khorne.
Overread wrote: Also don't forget that unique models for niche games can be released for the main game - all GW has to do is repack them in a new box and put it on sale since the moulds would already be made. There's nothing to stop them ending something like Shadspire and just putting the warbands on general sale for their respective armies.
I hope they go in this direction, there are so many models I like but they are only a small part of a bigger set.
I was referring to campaign books from the last editions, too. In my mind it's the first taste of GW's more recent effort to sell you small rules bits on their own and splintering their games into a mess that's hard to follow.
I mean, GW has been doing that for decades, since 2nd edition. whether or not spiting up the rule sin multiple products makes the game a mess thats hard to follow or not is subjective, but it hasn't seemed to hurt their sales or following for over 20 years.
Overread wrote:Also don't forget that unique models for niche games can be released for the main game - all GW has to do is repack them in a new box and put it on sale since the moulds would already be made. There's nothing to stop them ending something like Shadspire and just putting the warbands on general sale for their respective armies.
This isn't the case for every side game though. On the 40k side of niche games, in a number of instances the models are on larger sprues with a mix of different models and GW isn't in the habit of chopping up sprues. That said there have been a number of times in the last couple years GW has shown a willingness to reuse digital assets either modifying them or just using them as they are on whole new sprues. While the moulds are expensive, GW is producing models at such a volume and selling at such a high markup they are likely paying off the cost of the moulds in the first weeks the models are on sale. Any reluctance they have at this point really should be limited to a question of production capacity relative to the estimated profitability of different alternative products. - That is, if they can only produce one should they decide to produce more space marines or traitor guard?
Is there a chance that the harpies/furies/gargoyles are related to the Ogroid Thaumaturge? Something about the faces and heads is really similar. Both have similar faces, and both have tiny horns, with much larger "ram" horns jutting out to the side. Of course, they're different colors and the ogroid doesn't have wings. At the very least, they'll look good together.
A fellow named Dave ( can’t remeber last name) and John Bracken are the two folks doing The lions share of game design for Shadespire and Killteam. This was explained in the most recent Stormcast podcast. John is a very enthusiastic guy and his passion for skirmish game design is pretty obvious.
Thanatos73 wrote: So wasn’t there one more reveal at 8:00 pm pdt on the 13th? Or was Warcry it? I thought that was an earlier reveal?
Warcry was the last reveal. There were 4 reveal slots, the first had a few bits, second was the Blackstone Fortress expansion, third was Forbidden Power for AoS (although that revealed nothing) and the 4th was Warcry.
AndrewGPaul wrote: What's non-recyclable? If people are so blinkered that they won't play the games, the stuff they're binning is paper.
so much of the recent stuff comes with inserts made of both plastic and card that cant be recycled, a lot of the books cant be recycled either.
I have been helping run a bits website and ebay store over the past five years and being a bit of a hippy the sheer amount of stuff that we could not recycle really shocked me.
I wasn't aware of that - I dumped a load of old rulebooks into the paper recycling a while back. The only thing in BSF that I would have thought would be a problem is the baggies.
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Overread wrote: Also don't forget that unique models for niche games can be released for the main game - all GW has to do is repack them in a new box and put it on sale since the moulds would already be made. There's nothing to stop them ending something like Shadspire and just putting the warbands on general sale for their respective armies.
I was referring to campaign books from the last editions, too. In my mind it's the first taste of GW's more recent effort to sell you small rules bits on their own and splintering their games into a mess that's hard to follow.
I mean, GW has been doing that for decades, since 2nd edition. whether or not spiting up the rule sin multiple products makes the game a mess thats hard to follow or not is subjective, but it hasn't seemed to hurt their sales or following for over 20 years.
Sure. That's just my take. I'll make no claims how others should feel about it.
But to take Necromunda as an example (and to keep it short), with the original I bought the box and I was done. The game introduced six major houses, and the box had rules for those houses. The rule book did not inexplicably lack rules for weapons that are ubiquitous in 40k, like chainswords. By contrast, the new version gives you a cut down rule book in the box and if you ever want to play a different gang than Escher or Goliath you need a Gang War book. If you want the most complete trade post list, you need the latest Gang War book. If you want something more complete in general, you're going to have to wait for a year until they add a compilation book which comes at the cost of waiting a long time in which the initial interest in the game can cool down, which happened at my local store. In spite of a number of people stating their interest in the game (you can add Kill Team here too, if you like), I haven't seen a single game played because people couldn't just pick up a complete game to put everyone on the same page from the beginning.
That is the most extreme example I can think of, but for my group GW's business model has been detrimental in a way that, say, the new rules in White Dwarf/Chapter Approved in 3rd ed never were. You had a lot of fragmentation of the rule set there, too, but it never felt as incomplete as things now. Not to me, anyway.
In a way I like the Kirby era better. Things were dire, but GW had real economic reasons to implement change, hopefully for the better. The current model, on the other hand, is so successful that GW would be foolish to try something new. Which sucks for people like me who aren't happy with how their games are released. Nothing that can be done about it, though.
Thanatos73 wrote: So wasn’t there one more reveal at 8:00 pm pdt on the 13th? Or was Warcry it? I thought that was an earlier reveal?
GW's schedule showed a single date for what was the 12th in America and the 13th in Europe. They went with their own time on that one instead of just putting a big Tuesday (to go with the big local time) and a small Wednesday (to go with the smaller UK time) on the schedule. That would have been much clearer.
Well, the compilation for Necromunda has already come out by now. You are a few months out of date
Now there is s compiled rulebook and a compiled gangs book, so that covers almost all the rules released so far. I dunno how meaningful a year wait is in the scheme of things. I don't have a gaming group at present (move around too much).
Haighus wrote: Well, the compilation for Necromunda has already come out by now. You are a few months out of date
Now there is s compiled rulebook and a compiled gangs book, so that covers almost all the rules released so far. I dunno how meaningful a year wait is in the scheme of things. I don't have a gaming group at present (move around too much).
I know. Yet no more games of Necromunda were played at my local store after its release than before. Make of that what you will.
I wonder if those winged... things are really just another warband or the denizens of Varanspire who are harassing the would-be champions on their way to the top.
In a way I like the Kirby era better. Things were dire, but GW had real economic reasons to implement change, hopefully for the better. The current model, on the other hand, is so successful that GW would be foolish to try something new. Which sucks for people like me who aren't happy with how their games are released. Nothing that can be done about it, though.
The great oddity I've seen as of late is that while GW sales have been fantastic, I don't see many people playing games. It feels like people are mostly just overloading their piles of shame right now.
In a way I like the Kirby era better. Things were dire, but GW had real economic reasons to implement change, hopefully for the better. The current model, on the other hand, is so successful that GW would be foolish to try something new. Which sucks for people like me who aren't happy with how their games are released. Nothing that can be done about it, though.
The great oddity I've seen as of late is that while GW sales have been fantastic, I don't see many people playing games. It feels like people are mostly just overloading their piles of shame right now.
We are decidedly not!
*inconspicuously shoves unopened Wrath and Rapture under the bed*
In a way I like the Kirby era better. Things were dire, but GW had real economic reasons to implement change, hopefully for the better. The current model, on the other hand, is so successful that GW would be foolish to try something new. Which sucks for people like me who aren't happy with how their games are released. Nothing that can be done about it, though.
The great oddity I've seen as of late is that while GW sales have been fantastic, I don't see many people playing games. It feels like people are mostly just overloading their piles of shame right now.
We are decidedly not!
*inconspicuously shoves unopened Wrath and Rapture under the bed*
No sir!
Putting it under with all the “source material” for skin tones huh?
Galas wrote: At this point when I die I hope they burn me with all my unbuild and unpainted miniatures in a boat, so I can finish them in Valhalla.
Don't forget that they must lay your weapons alongside your trophies: a chipped hobby knife; a pair of clippers, the tips twisted; an old paintbrush, with the last few remaining bristles. The tools of a warrior who went out fighting.
I just wish GW would stop using the excuse "we're a miniature company not a game company" for their shoddy rules.
Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
Danny slag wrote: I just wish GW would stop using the excuse "we're a miniature company not a game company" for their shoddy rules.
Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
Outside of straight min max tournament settings that generally break anything they touch, how bad is it really.
Danny slag wrote: I just wish GW would stop using the excuse "we're a miniature company not a game company" for their shoddy rules.
Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
They already stopped using that excuse. Noone has said it since the Kirby era. Also Warhammer Underworlds is probably the best balanced rule set they have ever done. Killteam has a solid rule set. Bloodbowl, adeptus Titanicus and the newest version of lotr are all pretty well regarded. I haven't played Blackstone fortress but it has an 8.5 rating over on boardgamegeek which is pretty good by their standards.
Danny slag wrote: Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
To be fair, some of these did pretty good job with multiple games and should be (rightfully) praised for it.
The real mind boggling thing is how you can be clearly completely unfit for the job, like certain Eldar writer - who is producing blatantly broken books for his pet faction, while rest of his work (see say DW and Imperial Agents in 7th edition) is bland, tired, lazy mess that easily beats even infamous 4th edition CSM book in every possible way while also starting the whole 'no bits no rules' crap on unprecedented scale - yet still keep your job
And before his fanboys complain, his novels are if anything even worse. He completely slaughtered Tau in his series ignoring their established fluff and opening dozens of colossal plot holes in what could be perfect 'first contact' story in hands of another writer. Alas...
Danny slag wrote: I just wish GW would stop using the excuse "we're a miniature company not a game company" for their shoddy rules.
Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
What are you talking about? One or two of the game designers may have gone on to write novels (Andy hoare and Gav Thorpe are the only two that spring to mind right now), but you've got cause and effect the wrong way round.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: I thought Phil was just a background writer now?
A background writer for Age of Sigmar, so the complaints here are even more out of touch.
Danny slag wrote: I just wish GW would stop using the excuse "we're a miniature company not a game company" for their shoddy rules.
That's an excuse that they've never used.
Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
You got it kind of backwards. They let their game designers play novel writers.
Complaining about Ward is different though - the work of rules writers typically vanishes with each subsequent iteration of the codex, or at least dissipates over time, but the work of background writers tends to stick around until it's directly contradicted. As such, Ward's horror show lingers like the stink of spoiled meat long after he's gone.
I will say that it's unfair to blame Ward solely for the things he sharted out, somebody gave him permission/instructed him to write that garbage, but while said garbage is still floating around in the setting's background I don't think having a pop occasionally is as unreasonable and "stuck in the past" as some like to pretend.
People seem confused by this so I'll lay it out here.
Pete Foley is head of the boxed games and books. Under him there is Ben Johnson in charge of Aos and someone in charge of 40k ( It was Wade price). There are 4 fiction writers who work on both aos and 40k. There are currently 4 rules writers for 40k and 3 for AoS. There is also a team of 2 doing Killteam, underworlds etc. There is a little cross over with the rules team, Robin Cruddace worked on the aos Dok book for example. Surprisingly Dave Sanders did the entirety of season 1 of underworlds by himself which explains why that game's balance is pretty good.
There are also about 30 miniature designers and about 10 full time artists.
One little tidbit is that Mark Gibbons recently announced that he would do some art for GW again.
Danny slag wrote: Seriously what game company hires fiction novel writers to write their rules instead of game designers? it's a mind bogglingly terrible idea and it shows.
To be fair, some of these did pretty good job with multiple games and should be (rightfully) praised for it.
The real mind boggling thing is how you can be clearly completely unfit for the job, like certain Eldar writer - who is producing blatantly broken books for his pet faction, while rest of his work (see say DW and Imperial Agents in 7th edition) is bland, tired, lazy mess that easily beats even infamous 4th edition CSM book in every possible way while also starting the whole 'no bits no rules' crap on unprecedented scale - yet still keep your job
And before his fanboys complain, his novels are if anything even worse. He completely slaughtered Tau in his series ignoring their established fluff and opening dozens of colossal plot holes in what could be perfect 'first contact' story in hands of another writer. Alas...
If you don't have a clue about who is who at GW, stop making personal accusations.
Crimson Devil wrote: If Dakkanaughts restricted themselves to speaking about only subjects they understand, then Dakka would be as quiet as a graveyard.
Dunno. I could bore you all to tears with the finer points of Investigation and Adjudication!
Crimson Devil wrote: If Dakkanaughts restricted themselves to speaking about only subjects they understand, then Dakka would be as quiet as a graveyard.
Dunno. I could bore you all to tears with the finer points of Investigation and Adjudication!
Don't sell yourself short - you bore us to tears on a lot of subjects!
GW's GAMA reveals were...OK.
Here's hoping that they were saving the Good Stuff for Adepticon!
Crimson Devil wrote: If Dakkanaughts restricted themselves to speaking about only subjects they understand, then Dakka would be as quiet as a graveyard.
Dunno. I could bore you all to tears with the finer points of Investigation and Adjudication!
Don't sell yourself short - you bore us to tears on a lot of subjects!
GW's GAMA reveals were...OK.
Here's hoping that they were saving the Good Stuff for Adepticon!
Crimson Devil wrote: If Dakkanaughts restricted themselves to speaking about only subjects they understand, then Dakka would be as quiet as a graveyard.
Dunno. I could bore you all to tears with the finer points of Investigation and Adjudication!
Don't sell yourself short - you bore us to tears on a lot of subjects!
GW's GAMA reveals were...OK.
Here's hoping that they were saving the Good Stuff for Adepticon!
That's kind of how it went last year right?
Though I think Warcry is pretty darn cool.
It seems to be Chaos-themed fantasy version of Necromunda with simpler rules. I am not really that inspired by it personally. What draws you it?
Voss wrote: Well, for me, that it IS chaos themed fantasy warbands, with nice models. And a focus on mortals rather than chaos warriors or daemon-princes-to-be
Can't comment on the rules, since I've seen nothing on them.
The worrying part is that it will be handled like the new Necromunda.
Different teams of people. It’s by the Shadespire/Kill Team guys, not the specialist games studio.
Nostromodamus wrote: Chaos warbands fighting for the attention of the gods has always been a cool feature of Warhammer and I’m glad to see it being explored further.
I’m hoping beyond hope for a massive boon table with some funky mutations and powers on it.
Nostromodamus wrote: Chaos warbands fighting for the attention of the gods has always been a cool feature of Warhammer and I’m glad to see it being explored further.
I’m hoping beyond hope for a massive boon table with some funky mutations and powers on it.
yeah I'd love to see them do a kill team expansion based around the concept too
Voss wrote: Well, for me, that it IS chaos themed fantasy warbands, with nice models. And a focus on mortals rather than chaos warriors or daemon-princes-to-be
Can't comment on the rules, since I've seen nothing on them.
The worrying part is that it will be handled like the new Necromunda.
Different teams of people. It’s by the Shadespire/Kill Team guys, not the specialist games studio.
Eh. Different design teams are fine and all... But I suspect the marketing team matters more on the handling, and I doubt that will be a different one. They certainly haven't done Kill Team any favors with the splendiferous concept of 'Kill Team: Elites' or the non-existence of a boxed starter for... 6 months now.
Mark Gibbons is coming back? Cool - I remember doing an art project on his work back in high school
The GAMA previews were... underwhelming at best, with the Halfling team an unexpected high point. I was streaming on Twitch when the BSF preview slot came up, and was kinda confused by how little was in that update - thought we'd be getting at least two things in each slot.
Yeah, some of these older GW artists need to NOT be back. GW is big enough it can actually afford to chase talent, and going back to the amateurs that it was forced to use early on is a really BAD sign for me. It either means GW needs to cut costs somewhere, or that they are trying to smack the 2nd Ed 40K nostalgia button as hard as possible.
Crimson Devil wrote: If Dakkanaughts restricted themselves to speaking about only subjects they understand, then Dakka would be as quiet as a graveyard.
Dunno. I could bore you all to tears with the finer points of Investigation and Adjudication!
Don't sell yourself short - you bore us to tears on a lot of subjects!
GW's GAMA reveals were...OK.
Here's hoping that they were saving the Good Stuff for Adepticon!
That's kind of how it went last year right?
Though I think Warcry is pretty darn cool.
It seems to be Chaos-themed fantasy version of Necromunda with simpler rules. I am not really that inspired by it personally. What draws you it?
I've never played Necromunda, but I like small tighter-balanced games that can be played quickly, with most things included. I don't always have time for a 3 hour AOS or 40k game. This helps get my fix, without taking up a huge portion of the day.
Mark Gibbons work in the 90s for Warhammer was absolutely spectacular. I’ll admit to be a bigger fan personally of the early 2000s, B&W work by Dainton, Boyd, and Kopinski, but Gibbons’ work is both iconic and memorable.
I’m thrilled to here that he will be providing some artwork for the universe again.
Just Tony wrote: Yeah, some of these older GW artists need to NOT be back. GW is big enough it can actually afford to chase talent, and going back to the amateurs that it was forced to use early on is a really BAD sign for me. It either means GW needs to cut costs somewhere, or that they are trying to smack the 2nd Ed 40K nostalgia button as hard as possible.
It really pays to look up an artist before you spout this kind of stuff, because you're so off base on Mark's work it's genuinely hilarious.
Eh. Scrolling through his facebook page, I recognize some classic pieces, but a lot of the proportions on people are... wonky. Sometimes it looks intentional, in a sort of comic booky style, in others... it produces some of the scrawniest space marines I've ever seen
Mark was my favorite GW artist back in the day, and still one of the best imho. But to each their own. I usually dislike Blanche’s art, but it’s undeniably a cornerstone of GW’s design.
Flinty wrote:Are you trying to imply that Mark Gibbons, who appears to have done fundamental work for GW, Blizzard and 2000AD is an amateur?
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Flinty wrote: Are you trying to imply that Mark Gibbons, who appears to have done fundamental work for GW, Blizzard and 2000AD is an amateur?
That's what I heard.
And when he WAS doing the fundamental work for GW, was he a well established artist, or were they pinching cheap work wherever they could? Blanche sort of answers that question.
Yodhrin wrote:
Just Tony wrote: Yeah, some of these older GW artists need to NOT be back. GW is big enough it can actually afford to chase talent, and going back to the amateurs that it was forced to use early on is a really BAD sign for me. It either means GW needs to cut costs somewhere, or that they are trying to smack the 2nd Ed 40K nostalgia button as hard as possible.
It really pays to look up an artist before you spout this kind of stuff, because you're so off base on Mark's work it's genuinely hilarious.
I mean, eww, what a hack right?
I stand by my statement. Look again at the proportions of the artwork and the evisceration of anatomy in the poses, as well as some common perspective trappings. Honestly now that I know he worked for Blizzard, it explains the almost comical disproportion on their characters for WOW and such.
Voss wrote:Eh. Scrolling through his facebook page, I recognize some classic pieces, but a lot of the proportions on people are... wonky. Sometimes it looks intentional, in a sort of comic booky style, in others... it produces some of the scrawniest space marines I've ever seen
And it looks like I'm not the only one who noticed.
I realizing what I say is polarizing, and I realize that for some odd reason the fandom as a whole tend to worship all of the output of that early GW time period like it's beyond reproach, but the matter still stands that they also have better artists to pool from now, AND that they can afford to be choosy.
Weird thing I also noticed is you never see him do anything but pin up shots, I don't think I've seen a single mass battle shot from him.
These things are obviously subjective, but Gibbons is far from an amateur, even back when he was originally working for GW.
Personal taste is personal taste, and I can't really argue with that, but as an amateur artist myself, I do find the things that have been highlighted here as "criticism" of Gibbons to be amusing. It's also ignoring the huge conceptual contribution that (amateur lol) artists like Gibbons brought to GW. Obviously, this argument almost always boils down to Blanche and the subjective topic of his talent, which is the dumbest argument I've had the displeasure to witness on gaming forums across the spectrum since, without Blanche, you wouldn't have a hobby to argue over.
So you're aware of how you're acting, but feel the need to do it anyway. Well, I'm certainly thankful you're here to tell us our taste is bad and wrong, truly you are the saviour of the age.
and I realize that for some odd reason the fandom as a whole tend to worship all of the output of that early GW time period like it's beyond reproach
Or, alternatively, and bear with me because this may come as a serious shock: the fandom as a whole likes that art because their taste differs from yours, and they are capable of appreciating things other than anatomical studies.
but the matter still stands that they also have better artists to pool from now
Hello subjectivity my old frieeeeeend, I've come to talk with you agaaaaaaain...
AND that they can afford to be choosy.
So why do you assume they're not being choosy? Just because they're choosing to do something you disagree with isn't evidence they're somehow desperate and have no other options, it's just evidence that apparently GW join "the fandom as a whole" in disagreeing with you
I don’t share Just Tony’s opinion on Mark Gibbons, I don’t dislike his work, and some pieces I actually love, but trying to pull “ooohhh, so you think you’re better than us, if you don’t like what we do, and if you share your upinion” bs is.. well bs, Yodhrin
ekwatts wrote:These things are obviously subjective, but Gibbons is far from an amateur, even back when he was originally working for GW.
Personal taste is personal taste, and I can't really argue with that, but as an amateur artist myself, I do find the things that have been highlighted here as "criticism" of Gibbons to be amusing. It's also ignoring the huge conceptual contribution that (amateur lol) artists like Gibbons brought to GW. Obviously, this argument almost always boils down to Blanche and the subjective topic of his talent, which is the dumbest argument I've had the displeasure to witness on gaming forums across the spectrum since, without Blanche, you wouldn't have a hobby to argue over.
Speculation at best. There was a team working on GW's stuff when it started out. If memory served, the first picture illustrated for Warhammer, the one of the Chaos Warrior smashing a Skeleton with a mace, the one that got the funding for the miniatures from the get go, wasn't done by Blanche. 40K was even done with a team of artists at first, so saying Blanche's absence would have nullified the entire hobby is pretty bold at best.
And concept artists can be bad artists for the record. If you look at the artist for the comic Prime, Norm Breyfogle, he's a rather good artist, especially from a storytelling perspective. The designs of the Prime character and most of the characters in the book? Brent Blevins. Not even CLOSE to the same caliber as Breyfogle but obviously had a lasting effect on that entire comic universe. Doesn't make him a great artist, just meant he came up with at least one great idea for someone else to run with.
So you're aware of how you're acting, but feel the need to do it anyway. Well, I'm certainly thankful you're here to tell us our taste is bad and wrong, truly you are the saviour of the age.
...
What the hell?
Me stating my opinion AS AN OPINION is polarizing, as I said. It does not, however, hold a gun to your personal tastes and demand that you like what I like. Never once did I say that people should have my taste in art. The fact that you even come CLOSE to making that leap in logic is baffling.
Actually, thinking on it, it's not baffling. You are one of those vaunted few that cannot take any criticism of what you like. Period. Any critique at all that paints your favored thing in a poor light is a personal attack and will be treated as such.
The REAL question is why my comp's autocorrect Engrished that part of the sentence so bad.
Yodhrin wrote:
and I realize that for some odd reason the fandom as a whole tend to worship all of the output of that early GW time period like it's beyond reproach
Or, alternatively, and bear with me because this may come as a serious shock: the fandom as a whole likes that art because their taste differs from yours, and they are capable of appreciating things other than anatomical studies.
Oh, I'm aware. The fact that Blanche got work after the... art in the 7th Ed. Vampire Counts book is proof of that. I also remember when Rob Liefeld was held up as one of the greatest comic artist of the 90's. Popularity does not necessarily equal quality or technical ability.
Yodhrin wrote:
but the matter still stands that they also have better artists to pool from now
Hello subjectivity my old frieeeeeend, I've come to talk with you agaaaaaaain...
The irony of you saying this is rich.
Yodhrin wrote:
AND that they can afford to be choosy.
So why do you assume they're not being choosy? Just because they're choosing to do something you disagree with isn't evidence they're somehow desperate and have no other options, it's just evidence that apparently GW join "the fandom as a whole" in disagreeing with you
Reread my original post. I stated it smacked of them either spamming the nostalgia button artwise, or that they were tightening the wallet. If Gibbons costs the same as other artists or more, then I'd say it was nostalgia. It's no different than some people preferring 2nd Ed. metal 40K sculpts. Personal taste, but the sculpting has blown past that. If they started hammering out sets that had that same design spirit, say for Orks since those are the most noticeable, then you would agree. But since this is book art, you don't. Instead, a critique of that is paramount to an ancestry insult.
Karl Kopinski is my favourite artist that has worked for GW. (I always liked the more realistic artist than the more surreal ones) Actually I dont like most Gibbons clasical pieces but from and objetive point of view he was not a bad artist nor an amateur.
And I cant really see what the problem with these tree images. Im an amateur myself but I dont see nothing gronw in the pose or anatomy of that skaven or those goblins , not the first one done in a more realistic eay, not te second, more cartoonized.
But nonetheless Mark Gibbons is muchbetter artist than many of the ones doing work for GW now. Theres some really good ones, like one that did the art for Wrath and Rapture, Carrion Empire, or artworks of Celestine, Greyfax, etc...
Gibbons is alright, but his art is definitely of it's time. It's an older classic looking style, kind of like Blanche. I think in terms of a more serious and gritty style Kopinski and Adrian Smith was the peak of gws art style. Sadly things are more of a mixed bag nowadays and a bit less consistently good. I liked the chaos demons book that was a few years back that was basically entirely Blanche, I like that consistency across a book. I remember being underwhelmed with the initial art for the adeptus mechanicus/cult mech release. Those books were not very inspiring at all.
ekwatts wrote: without Blanche, you wouldn't have a hobby to argue over.
That is the biggest load of tosh that gets repeated far to often, they were plenty of artistists before and after Blanche who had more of an influence. It's just that they got erased from history due to GW not knowing the difference between freelance and employed and some people being more happy to sign there rights away.
So Adepticon is in a week and a bit. Hopefully there will be some follow up to the AoS Forbidden Power tease. But beyond that? The new CSM and Vigilus2 would seem a bit to close to hand. Maybe the full MPK Primaris Vanguard range, or whatever comes after the campaign for 40k?
It’s just they’ve made more of the coming of Chaos than new Primaris. There’s a bunch of stuff flashed on the Rumour Engine, and the early reveal of that sweet Monster Riding Dude.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s just they’ve made more of the coming of Chaos than new Primaris. There’s a bunch of stuff flashed on the Rumour Engine, and the early reveal of that sweet Monster Riding Dude.
Sure, and they made more of GSC and Orks than they did the Imperium for Vigilus 1--of course the enemies get focused on.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I do wonder if the much anticipated Darkoaths for fantasy will come on the heels of the black legion release.
GW could even release both at the same time in a glorious month of chaos but I suspect they won't as that'd be a lot of cross over appeal. but I expect vanguard marines will come out after black Legion, maybe not thogh, GW could wait a bit to maximize shadowspear sales and then release vanguard in summer
Updated Codex for Marines, bringing the new Vanguard and whatever else is coming. Maybe a scenery piece.
I would genuinely loose it if they did a modern version of the old card and plastic Imperial Firebase or Bastion
Honestly, I'd expect it to be something more akin to a drop pod loaded with weapons+ammo or something of that nature allowing for weapons to get to shoot twice or some such silliness.
Would it though? How well are Drop Pods selling these days?
And when it comes to dynamic releases, something that appears one turn and then sits there for the rest of the game doing very little is unlikely to hold much appeal.
I don't think Drop Pods would be something modern day GW would make. The static elements they're doing are a terrain piece for each faction with special rules. I mean if the inevitable SM "terrain" piece is actually a Deathwind pod, great, but it's more likely to something Primaris related.
Wasn't there a rumor engine picture of a computer console? I'm inclined to agree with H.B.M.C. and say Marines will get some kind of Primaris mobile command post (terrain piece) before they get another Drop Pod (arguably as much a vehicle as the one we have rather than terrain).
Geifer wrote: Wasn't there a rumor engine picture of a computer console? I'm inclined to agree with H.B.M.C. and say Marines will get some kind of Primaris mobile command post (terrain piece) before they get another Drop Pod (arguably as much a vehicle as the one we have rather than terrain).
Hope so. Never really like the Drop Pod as a vehicle you deploy as they tend to just clutter up the place. I've noticed that they're switching to Grav Chutes, teleportation and the like for Marines.
In terms of utility drop pods... I've always thought a Drop pod carrying a void shield generator would make sense for marines... for when marines get surprised by titans.
If you can reliably drop a pod that size, just think of the size of bomb you could drop instead.
Drop pods are good in Epic, and certainly make sense if you're dropping them a distance away from an objective to then advance on foot. Drop straight to combat? Crazy.
aka_mythos wrote: In terms of utility drop pods... I've always thought a Drop pod carrying a void shield generator would make sense for marines... for when marines get surprised by titans.
That is a really cool idea!
I like it, and it would be great if GW were to be...inspired by this and make it so!
aka_mythos wrote: In terms of utility drop pods... I've always thought a Drop pod carrying a void shield generator would make sense for marines... for when marines get surprised by titans.
You will get a drop pod with 7 laser cannons, 5 storm bolters, three frag launchers and the ability to move and fly around the table and like it.
Drop Pods have an easy fix - instead of assigning a squad to ride in them (or dropping them empty), they should be the Imperial version of summoning.
Basically you take the drop pod in your list, but the contents can be tailored to suit the situation when they arrive via reserve points (with obvious restrictions of max 10 powered armored guys or max 5 terminators, etc), and can also bypass the max of 1/2 power in reserve.
