aracersss wrote: well to be fair ... It comes on a time where core troops borderline the 50-60$ mark nowadays compare to past iterations. The current hammerhead got abvsorved into the skyray kit, in a similar fashion to the baneblade, and due to the time it went to 60$. Given currect inflation, 75$ sounds about the normal trend for dual/multi build vehicle kits
GW still double their profit annually, that mean they will continue to push the price higher and higher to gain more profit.
Haven’t bought anything gw apart from a few copies of conquest mag when it came out but is it wrong to want to build a Catachan river borne assault force with these things.
xKillGorex wrote: Haven’t bought anything gw apart from a few copies of conquest mag when it came out but is it wrong to want to build a Catachan river borne assault force with these things.
Not until you look at the old plastic Catachan models and remember how their shoulders look.
So it looks like the Dunerider has a double Broad-Spectrum Data Tether and 4 cognis heavy stubbers (although the latter was obvious from the model). I wonder if being doubled means it has an increased range of the tether or perhaps a higher leadership bonus (or both?)
Kanluwen wrote: Any sign of a similar thing for the 'battle tank' variant?
Not yet, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more soon. One thing the battle tank probably has is the broad spectrum data tethers as well, which is good. Means it can use the +2 BS strat.
The fact that they didnt call the BDT something else than "2 bdt" has me confused. If it had another name, then i would expect some new rules, as it stands, BDT dont stack, so having 2 on the same model wouldnt do anything new.
Now this is my wishful thinking typing :
Maybe this preview actually is a rules preview formulated in a weird way to fake us out. Maybe (emphasis on the maybe and the wishful thinking) the disembarcation ramp actually was an ability that let us disembark after moving the transport? Maybe the ammo crates let us use them up to double shoot with the stubbers (4 charges per game?) Maybe the directional fins let us do something special that i cant think of right now.
Realistically, this article was just a teast to keep us interested while they spoil non-admech apocalypse factions everyday
I mean, the Ironstriders don't have Invulnerable saves...but I'd assume there's a few things we haven't seen yet.
The part I'm curious about is if we're going to see a new AdMech book this year that addresses some "known issues" and brings in the new units.
There's been rumblings of an Alpha Primus HQ choice for a long time for Skitarii(and for the record, I don't think the Blackstone Fortress guy is a Skitarii anymore) to be able to get fielded as a singular army.
Kanluwen wrote: I mean, the Ironstriders don't have Invulnerable saves...but I'd assume there's a few things we haven't seen yet.
The part I'm curious about is if we're going to see a new AdMech book this year that addresses some "known issues" and brings in the new units.
There's been rumblings of an Alpha Primus HQ choice for a long time for Skitarii(and for the record, I don't think the Blackstone Fortress guy is a Skitarii anymore) to be able to get fielded as a singular army.
Every unit in the codex (apart from basic servitors) have an invuln save, 6+ or better
aracersss wrote:
I mean ... It's a tank. It seems fitting w/o one compare to the rest
Dunecrawlers are most definitly a tank and have a 5+ invuln
Kanluwen wrote: I mean, the Ironstriders don't have Invulnerable saves...but I'd assume there's a few things we haven't seen yet.
The part I'm curious about is if we're going to see a new AdMech book this year that addresses some "known issues" and brings in the new units.
There's been rumblings of an Alpha Primus HQ choice for a long time for Skitarii(and for the record, I don't think the Blackstone Fortress guy is a Skitarii anymore) to be able to get fielded as a singular army.
Everything in AdMech bar the Onager Dunecrawler (which have their force field) have the 6+ Biotic invun save, in this case it makes sense since this isn't a walker or humanoid robot with bionic bits
Everything in AdMech bar the Onager Dunecrawler (which have their force field) have the 6+ Biotic invun save, in this case it makes sense since this isn't a walker or humanoid robot with bionic bits
Yeah, I should have clarified a bit more.
The Ironstriders have the Bionics save but not an actual Force Field.
Wow, the Repulsor is breathtakingly awful. Absolute trash.
Whereas, both variations of the Skorpius look pretty awesome. The MBT version is crazy good. And the transport isn't half-bad. I wish it had the ability to take Phosphor Blasters. Beggars can't be choosers. Still does its job well enough. But man, the MBT is going to be sweet. Mortars and missiles!
Whereas, both variations of the Skorpius look pretty awesome. The MBT version is crazy good. And the transport isn't half-bad. I wish it had the ability to take Phosphor Blasters. Beggars can't be choosers. Still does its job well enough. But man, the MBT is going to be sweet. Mortars and missiles!
The repulsor also doesnt cost much more than a normal repulsor and didnt show all rules yet, atm it look good.
Only thing I dont like is that the dunerider can only carry 10, while being bigger than a Rhino and skitarii being smaller than Space Marines.
Whereas, both variations of the Skorpius look pretty awesome. The MBT version is crazy good. And the transport isn't half-bad. I wish it had the ability to take Phosphor Blasters. Beggars can't be choosers. Still does its job well enough. But man, the MBT is going to be sweet. Mortars and missiles!
The repulsor also doesnt cost much more than a normal repulsor and didnt show all rules yet, atm it look good.
Only thing I dont like is that the dunerider can only carry 10, while being bigger than a Rhino and skitarii being smaller than Space Marines.
No transport capacity in the game is based on relative sizes of models.
Whereas, both variations of the Skorpius look pretty awesome. The MBT version is crazy good. And the transport isn't half-bad. I wish it had the ability to take Phosphor Blasters. Beggars can't be choosers. Still does its job well enough. But man, the MBT is going to be sweet. Mortars and missiles!
The repulsor also doesnt cost much more than a normal repulsor and didnt show all rules yet, atm it look good.
Only thing I dont like is that the dunerider can only carry 10, while being bigger than a Rhino and skitarii being smaller than Space Marines.
No transport capacity in the game is based on relative sizes of models.
Wella chimera transports 12 AM units, Which also seems to have less transport capacity as the tracks are thick and the vehicle angled at the front and back
All those (relatively) short range guns do feel a bit wasted on the laser Executioner. Would it have taken up that much sprue space to give it the same Las cannon options as the regular Repulsor?
GoatboyBeta wrote: All those (relatively) short range guns do feel a bit wasted on the laser Executioner. Would it have taken up that much sprue space to give it the same Las cannon options as the regular Repulsor?
Then it might be able to actually do its job well, though.
Crimson wrote: S4 anti-air weapon is bloody useless. I hope we can replace those with something else.
Judging by the sprue, nope. Worthless weapons. Can't even give the Techmarine the Onslaught Gatling Cannon like on the original. It is just mind-boggling.
It’s almost as if they’ve taken a design decision to not make a given tank a Swiss Army knife!
Except that is exactly what they did. One big Anti-Tank weapon and a bunch of Anti-Infantry weapons. I would rather it had all Anti-Tank or Anti-Heavy and no Anti-Infantry. Primaris are not hurting for Anti-Infantry. Like at all.
10 Fulgurite Electro-Priests being carted to the front line is a nasty old prospect, because they hit like a tonne of bricks,
Sure but they are still blind bodybuilders. They also dont benefit from the incoming dual BSDT rules
Except the thing is clearly opened topped. I'd gladly trade you all my garbage chimeras in order to shoot actually good guns off my tranposts again as a guard player.
That thing has 4 2 point guns on it and the profile won't cost more then 70 points base unless they really botch things up. That thing is going to be one of the best transports in the game, period.
It’s almost as if they’ve taken a design decision to not make a given tank a Swiss Army knife!
Except that is exactly what they did. One big Anti-Tank weapon and a bunch of Anti-Infantry weapons. I would rather it had all Anti-Tank or Anti-Heavy and no Anti-Infantry. Primaris are not hurting for Anti-Infantry. Like at all.
You act as if anything in the primaris line has made sense. They have actively tried to make everything different from the old marine line, which has been biting them in the ass from day one since the old marine line exhausted every good or bad idea they ever had. They were stuffing marines into marines for feths sake. The primaris line is in a very awkward place, I still have no idea what purpose reavers have, especially after they released the vanguard marines who are actually troops lol.
It’s weird to see Heavy Stubbers on a Space Marine tank. They were always a mainstay of PDF troops, militias and gangs. Seeing them on cutting edge Marine vehicles just doesn’t feel right.
Nostromodamus wrote: It’s weird to see Heavy Stubbers on a Space Marine tank. They were always a mainstay of PDF troops, militias and gangs. Seeing them on cutting edge Marine vehicles just doesn’t feel right.
Well these Primaris tanks are designed by Cawl (heretical) so maybe it is something old tech to make it more… reliable?
Also, you can swap them to something else like into trusty Storm bolter.
Hmm the executioner could be pretty good! Four st 10 shots with minimum 3 damage is decent. Just make sure these are babysat by Capt and lieutenant. All comes down to cost now. If they're about 300 as leaks are showing we'll be in business.
I think a ton of people undervalue the repulsor abilities of fly and resistance to being charged. Sure an invuln would be amazing, but it's T8 and compact enough you can hide in cover and poke out to shoot turn 1.
Nostromodamus wrote: It’s weird to see Heavy Stubbers on a Space Marine tank. They were always a mainstay of PDF troops, militias and gangs. Seeing them on cutting edge Marine vehicles just doesn’t feel right.
Well these Primaris tanks are designed by Cawl (heretical) so maybe it is something old tech to make it more… reliable?
Also, you can swap them to something else like into trusty Storm bolter.
Well lorewise it would be efficient to kill low armored stuff, to not waste ammunition and resources on little green mushrooms
Quasistellar wrote: Hmm the executioner could be pretty good! Four st 10 shots with minimum 3 damage is decent. Just make sure these are babysat by Capt and lieutenant. All comes down to cost now. If they're about 300 as leaks are showing we'll be in business.
I think a ton of people undervalue the repulsor abilities of fly and resistance to being charged. Sure an invuln would be amazing, but it's T8 and compact enough you can hide in cover and poke out to shoot turn 1.
I don't know, maybe I'm the only one not super impressed.
The transport has a high dollar cost, we have no idea yet the point cost, a low toughness and a stripped down fly keyword so if it gets caught up will probably not be able to shoot if it flees.
The fire power feels, eh with four heavy stubbers and seemingly no options. Just not sure I'm sold on it now, was super excited however.
The tank variant feels better, still very expensive which leads me to saying no and opting out though. All in all, was excited, the reality has left me waiting to see how it ends up now. The devil will be in the details but I can't help to think it could have been more exciting, especially waiting so long for it. Paying dollar per point feels bad.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, maybe I'm the only one not super impressed.
The transport has a high dollar cost, we have no idea yet the point cost, a low toughness and a stripped down fly keyword so if it gets caught up will probably not be able to shoot if it flees.
The fire power feels, eh with four heavy stubbers and seemingly no options. Just not sure I'm sold on it now, was super excited however.
The tank variant feels better, still very expensive which leads me to saying no and opting out though. All in all, was excited, the reality has left me waiting to see how it ends up now. The devil will be in the details but I can't help to think it could have been more exciting, especially waiting so long for it. Paying dollar per point feels bad.
if you expected a rhino price you where proably fooling yourself sadly
It just feels like wasted chances. Like, can we shoot out of it ? If so, thats better. Otherwise it's looking much like a rhino, although toughness is weaker and why would that matter ? Well in a world of auto cannons, it really does matter.
I knew it would be expensive but my hope was like 60$ at most.
Though to be fair, this is the Skorpius thread not the Space Marines thread.
Pretty sure he meant points.....
Yeah the post I quoted said the marine tank was 300pts so I was wondering where that leak was and if we had something similar for AdMech, points cost will be a huge factor on if it's worth a buy.
AngryAngel80 wrote: It just feels like wasted chances. Like, can we shoot out of it ? If so, thats better. Otherwise it's looking much like a rhino, although toughness is weaker and why would that matter ? Well in a world of auto cannons, it really does matter.
I knew it would be expensive but my hope was like 60$ at most.
Yeah, Rhino price was never gonna happen. But double it's price? Nope, not happening for me. With the Skorpius being a dual kit comparable to the relatively recent GSC Goliath it thought that would be around £35 too. But at £45 I'm gonna wait until it shows up in an xmas bundle or starter set...
Do people really expect prices of decades old kits for brand new product--especially when you have people already crapping on the new items before we even have full rules?
Kanluwen wrote: Do people really expect prices of decades old kits for brand new product--especially when you have people already crapping on the new items before we even have full rules?
?? First off, this isn't the first price bloated model released, not even recently. The reality is there is no real reason for the bloat other than GWs off the hook greed. As was said but a post or so back, even other dual kits of similar type are a fair bit cheaper and those are dual kits that aren't decades old.
As for crapping on the new items, sure I said, multiple times now, the devils in the details as for their usability. However why wouldn't a company put their best foot forward and show you the good stuff first ? Why would they hide it and show lack luster things first ?
I mean its a fine kit, and might be useful for some set up of the tank version but the transport feels like an overly soft shell for a fat price. The marine tank being so much more expensive for no real reason is a bit of a wtf ? as well as that kit can't be considered old and dated yet.
I'll probably need to sit back and wait for the hover craft to come out bundled and cheaper as is I'd not spend that much cash on it, I can wait or never get it and use more cost effective allies.
Kanluwen wrote: Apocalypse Datasheet for the Skorpius Dunerider suggests that it can transport <Forge World> and Secutarii Infantry. No Cawl or Kataphron though.
Also, it has no open topped rule, Drukhari transports do, so I guess it won't in 40k
Kirasu wrote: Funny that this thing hovers and yet doesn’t have the fly keyword. Just check the apoc data sheets.
Went from exciting gun platform to fairly mediocre.
I'm half expecting that to be an omission. I'm willing to get "fly" either gets added to the codex, or later in a FAQ. Although, if the transport is dirt cheap it still might be worth it.
On the plus side, if it stays as a no-fly transport, I can adapt my resin molds I made for a Rogue Trader style Rhino enlarged to current scale. Just lose the center hull and add a Higgins boat like section.
As far as points/power cost, the tank seems to be comparable to the dunecrawler in apoc at 8 power, with the transport at 7. Apoc powers don't really match up directly with the power levels in the codex, but if the correlation holds, I'd be okay with a tank in the 110-120 point range. It lacks the force field, but is double the speed and has a larger range of firepower. And it benefits from the various dogmas and likely canticles.
MajorWesJanson wrote: As far as points/power cost, the tank seems to be comparable to the dunecrawler in apoc at 8 power, with the transport at 7. Apoc powers don't really match up directly with the power levels in the codex, but if the correlation holds, I'd be okay with a tank in the 110-120 point range. It lacks the force field, but is double the speed and has a larger range of firepower. And it benefits from the various dogmas and likely canticles.
120 points for a tank that can toss solid fire from outside LOS is pretty awesome
Kirasu wrote: Funny that this thing hovers and yet doesn’t have the fly keyword. Just check the apoc data sheets.
Went from exciting gun platform to fairly mediocre.
I mean, did we really expect it to fly?
It's a groundhugger. Fly implies just that--the item has the capability to move itself up and over things with no issue.
I'm kinda/sorta thinking if we see something relating to it being able to hover? It's going to be able to move over intervening units that don't have Fly without penalties.
Kirasu wrote: Funny that this thing hovers and yet doesn’t have the fly keyword. Just check the apoc data sheets.
Went from exciting gun platform to fairly mediocre.
I mean, did we really expect it to fly?
It's a groundhugger. Fly implies just that--the item has the capability to move itself up and over things with no issue.
I'm kinda/sorta thinking if we see something relating to it being able to hover? It's going to be able to move over intervening units that don't have Fly without penalties.
It may just be the 12" movement and ability to move and fire heavy weapons at no penalty.
Kirasu wrote: Funny that this thing hovers and yet doesn’t have the fly keyword. Just check the apoc data sheets.
Went from exciting gun platform to fairly mediocre.
I mean, did we really expect it to fly?
It's a groundhugger. Fly implies just that--the item has the capability to move itself up and over things with no issue.
I'm kinda/sorta thinking if we see something relating to it being able to hover? It's going to be able to move over intervening units that don't have Fly without penalties.
Yes, it's fairly reasonable to think that a unit with a rule referencing it "hovering" would mean the vehicle flies. Considering that, I think, everyt else in the game that hovers also has fly. It's not a far fetched idea.
But it is also not far fetched for a vehicle that more resembles real world hover tech, to have more modest rules. This thing looks like it fans to ground just skimming the surface, not like it could vault buildings and enemy models. The model doesn't have a flight stand either, not sure there is or has been a model with the fly keyword that lacks one.
Now, what is actually worth being salty over is if this thing does indeed lack the open topped rule. Considering it literally has no top and has the lower toughness of an open topped vehicle.
Kirasu wrote: Fly doesn’t matter as much for the shooting version, but it definitely is a huge nerf to the transport.
A nerf implies that the rules were originally written with 'Fly' included.
No, this is just player expectation being higher than reality. That's not really the fault of GW here. After all, it's based off of a hovercraft. You ever see a hovercraft take off and fly over tall buildings?
It's a transport. Admech players wanted a transport. They got a transport. Why aren't people happy?
Y'know what upsets me? Space Marine players that have shelved their Rhinos in favor of footslogging because a jump to 75-ish points from 35 was just too rich for most players' blood. But you don't hear them complaining any more.
It's a transport. Admech players wanted a transport. They got a transport. Why aren't people happy?
.
Admech players wanted transports. Forge World make beautiful Mechanicum transports. Games Workshop don’t give them 40k rules, totally abandon that established aesthetic and make the ugliest thing I’ve seen in years. That’s why I’m not happy. Can’t speak for anyone else of course.
so just pre-ordered one - which will be built with the energy mortar. if the rules for the transport are any better than what we have seen I will probably purchase one/two more.
looking at the sprues, we will not be lacking if we want any stubbers in the future...
Oh nice, the front prow of the tank is all one piece. Glue the ramp to it's two supporting walls and that should be a very easy magnet job. Just make a couple of little wings off of the interior hull and the prow to clamp on to and then the top will probably just slot in with no magnets required.
I don't play 40k anymore, but still collect the models, I love the look of this one and was definitely going to buy one until I saw the price. It's a pity it's not the same price as the GSC multi-kit. Oh well, I guess it's not that surprising. Maybe some day....
