Racerguy180 wrote: Couldn't they have an accessory sprue(or break up what parts are on which sprue) to give the helmeted/gas mask look for either steel legion or krieg?
Racerguy180 wrote: Couldn't they have an accessory sprue(or break up what parts are on which sprue) to give the helmeted/gas mask look for either steel legion or krieg?
maybe it is just another helmet sprue for the Cadian Box
Armageddon Steel Legion has German-style coats, Death Korps have French-style coats. They can't be in the same generic greatcoat box because their uniforms are diffrent.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Armageddon Steel Legion has no pauldrons, and a German-style coat, Death Korps have large metal shoulderpads and a French-style coat. The only thing the two could have in common would be the torso. Not legs, not arms and not the helmet.
And Tallarn used to be more than Cadians with keffiyehs. Details change over time.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Armageddon Steel Legion has no pauldrons, and a German-style coat, Death Korps have large metal shoulderpads and a French-style coat. The only thing the two could have in common would be the torso. Not legs, not arms and not the helmet.
And Tallarn used to be more than Cadians with keffiyehs. Details change over time.
I'm arguing putting both Steel Legion and DKoK in the same box using the same generic greatcoat body would just take away their unique looks from both, so i would rather not have that happen.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Something like this would tick all the same boxes as Death Korps without literally being poilus with stahlhelms, the sort of overtly historical design that GW is trying to get away from.
They could call these Krieg and it wouldn't be any bigger of a change than when they went from an alternate Steel Legion scheme to their current minis.
That would be a poor replacement for Krieg
It looks like an early concept design for AdMech before they added all the good stuff
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Something like this would tick all the same boxes as Death Korps without literally being poilus with stahlhelms, the sort of overtly historical design that GW is trying to get away from.
They could call these Krieg and it wouldn't be any bigger of a change than when they went from an alternate Steel Legion scheme to their current minis.
That would be a poor replacement for Krieg
It looks like an early concept design for AdMech before they added all the good stuff
You guys are expecting a lot… set your expectations lower…
Monopose plastic 5 man generic great coat guard that clearly inspired by krieg but doesn’t match Fw models exactly…
That’s where you should be starting your expectations…
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Something like this would tick all the same boxes as Death Korps without literally being poilus with stahlhelms, the sort of overtly historical design that GW is trying to get away from.
They could call these Krieg and it wouldn't be any bigger of a change than when they went from an alternate Steel Legion scheme to their current minis.
That would be a poor replacement for Krieg
It looks like an early concept design for AdMech before they added all the good stuff
It's from 2nd edition, so yeah the fluff was still in flux back then:
It looks like an early concept design for AdMech before they added all the good stuff
It's no more different from the FW Death Korps design than the FW Death Korps are from the original Death Korps mini.
Based on how GW has been treating their old historical expies over the last five years, if anyone's expecting plastic renditions of Death Korps that are still literally poilus with laser rifles, they're probably setting themselves up for disappointment. Grenadiers at least have the stylized armor and skull masks to be a little less on the nose, so that's more likely.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
It'd be preferable, to be honest. Single-world guard identities are weird and don't make sense, and their legacy is still having frustrating effects on the faction rules and identity.
'Krieg' or 'Cadia' or whatever frankly means nothing to me- I'd rather have 'my troops' with a look I like rather than deal with the baggage of good artillery guys have to be from Planet X while resilient infantry have to be from Planet Y because reasons.
Several guard kits in different styles that can approach the look of specific regiments are much preferable to 'these are ONLY models from Planet X.'
The Cadian Guardsman armour is used in many places as just a standard flak armour look, something analogous to that but with Trenchcoat gasmask guardsman would be quite a cool kit, but I don't think it should over-ride the Krieg and turn their specific look into a generic style.
Turning either their look into a generic style and combing a kit with the Steel legion, or the other way around, removes the nuance that helps define them.
They could also retcon the Design and make the "DKok"-Design into "Generic Trench Coat" IG-Regiments (which also replace the SL Design), like "Cadians" are Generic for most of the IG Regiments.
It would make sense to make generic Trench Coat Regiment Models, which could turned into SL or DKoK with Sprues like that for the Cadians.
They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
I mean GW already reverted all Marine chapters into paint schemes for generic Marines. Which, i personally thought was a very good move, because the whole every-chapter-a-codex just led to excess bloat of a single, already horribly bloated faction.
Yeah, I was thinking about the Primaris "upgrade sprues" while I was typing, more and more I think Nu-GW is just not for me and purchasing Indomitus was probably a mistake lol
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
I mean GW already reverted all Marine chapters into paint schemes for generic Marines. Which, i personally thought was a very good move, because the whole every-chapter-a-codex just led to excess bloat of a single, already horribly bloated faction.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
I mean GW already reverted all Marine chapters into paint schemes for generic Marines. Which, i personally thought was a very good move, because the whole every-chapter-a-codex just led to excess bloat of a single, already horribly bloated faction.
What do you mean by this?
I mean that by God i am happy GW seems to just make generic all-chapter Primaris, instead of dozens upon dozens relases of units that can be only used by a single sub-faction, or even a single sub-faction of a sub-faction like in the Firstborn days, where every Chapter had to had fifteen unique units, because that just caused bloody horrible Marine bloat and took away time and resources from relases of other factions. I mean, they still could make less Marines, but i'm happy they at least took a step in the right direction.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
I mean GW already reverted all Marine chapters into paint schemes for generic Marines. Which, i personally thought was a very good move, because the whole every-chapter-a-codex just led to excess bloat of a single, already horribly bloated faction.
They basically already did this with Krieg in the new FW index. They're just Guard with a few unique units now.
RazorEdge wrote: They could also retcon the Design and make the "DKok"-Design into "Generic Trench Coat" IG-Regiments (which also replace the SL Design), like "Cadians" are Generic for most of the IG Regiments.
It would make sense to make generic Trench Coat Regiment Models, which could turned into SL or DKoK with Sprues like that for the Cadians.
Add in some heads with shakos and moustaches to make Vostroyans too, and I couldn’t be happier.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
It'd be preferable, to be honest. Single-world guard identities are weird and don't make sense, and their legacy is still having frustrating effects on the faction rules and identity.
'Krieg' or 'Cadia' or whatever frankly means nothing to me- I'd rather have 'my troops' with a look I like rather than deal with the baggage of good artillery guys have to be from Planet X while resilient infantry have to be from Planet Y because reasons.
Several guard kits in different styles that can approach the look of specific regiments are much preferable to 'these are ONLY models from Planet X.'
The Cadian Guardsman armour is used in many places as just a standard flak armour look, something analogous to that but with Trenchcoat gasmask guardsman would be quite a cool kit, but I don't think it should over-ride the Krieg and turn their specific look into a generic style.
Turning either their look into a generic style and combing a kit with the Steel legion, or the other way around, removes the nuance that helps define them.
I'm not sure what you're saying, or why it would be fine in general but not fine here. They're already a 'generic style': they're vaguely WWI brits/germans in trenchcoats, but with laser guns (and various WW2 bits)
That's been the problem with all the guard regiments. They're ahistorical imports that GW decided to make 'important' in terms of rules, but they're just cast-offs from real world history with a pile of overly specific rules baggage the game doesn't need.
The fandom wiki sums this up pretty well:
As with many Imperial Guard regiments, the Death Korps is based upon a real-world military from human history, similar in uniform, appearance and style to the Imperial German Army of World War I and the Wehrmacht of World War II.
VS
The soldiers of the Steel Legions require gas masks and thick, synthetic trenchcoats to protect them from their now toxic homeworld's atmosphere and thus have a uniform which is a composite of many different elements. Parts of the uniform are drawn from the British Army's infantry uniform in World War I (the coats are modelled on the British 1914 Utility Tunic and the gas masks are of the 1916 Box-Respirator type) and the German Paratroops (Fallschirmjäger) of World War II (particularly the Steel Legion's helmet design). This is contrasted with Steel Legion weapons, which are all much more technologically advanced and more portable than standard Imperial designs -- for example, their las rifles are 1/2 the size of the comparable Cadian Pattern weapons, and have folding wire stocks.
There isn't a lot of interesting nuance there. And what nuance is there is mostly WWI button trivia, not anything to do with 40k.
I might be understanding this wrong, but remember that this is part of Kill Team. maybe something in the ballpark of the Rogue Trader set. I'm not expecting an entire new plastic Krieg range outside of this.
As to their design, we do have the Warhammer+ sizzle reel to go from. There is no chance in Hell that those shots weren't a promo video for Kill Team.
Spoiler:
That looks pretty much like Krieg Korpsmen to me. The gas mask is a little off on the main guy, as it resembles a more leathery design than the old burlap sack design the FW models use. The "Sapper" grabbed by the Ork also wears the Grenadier Visor (but lacks all of the other gear a Grenadier would have). The Lucius Pattern Lasgun is also present, so it stays very close to the main aesthetic of the Death Korp.
concerning the Faeit rumours; I'm a little skeptical. Most of it sounds possible, but the blurb about new Mk 7 Space Marines and Terminators sounds a little ridiculous to me. This specific rumour was also released today, so we already knew most of the info.
Crimson wrote: I don't know what's going on, but it would be massively unwise to tease with DKoK/IG pics if new plastic version isn't actually happening. Because at this point people will expect that and will be massively disappointed if it turns out to not be the case.
You mean kinda like how GW teased Horus Heresy players a few weeks ago with what turned out to be the Age of Sigmar 3.0 preview?
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
I dont get why you're having such a tough time with this. Fluffwise, something like 50% of all guard regiments are equipped like Cadians. Its established that a lot of planets issue standardized equipment manufactured by local forgeworlds (particularly regiments drawn from non-hive worlds that don't have their own native manufactorums to produce equipment) and as such regiments from different worlds will often wear similar equipment and uniforms. These guard could well be from a world that utilize the same standardized gas masks and helmets as krieg does. As it stands, we don't know what the rest of their kit looks like, so saying that they look "just like Krieg" based off a helmet and gas mask is a whooooole lot of conjecture.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Armageddon Steel Legion has German-style coats, Death Korps have French-style coats. They can't be in the same generic greatcoat box because their uniforms are diffrent.
Currently.
Actually, thats not accurate, because the only canon image of an Armageddon-sourced guarsdman in the current Astra Militarum codex doesn't have a coat at all.
Anyway, point is that this would not be the first time that a guard range was aesthetically redesigned, nor will it be the last. Cadians didn't always look quite like they do now. Prior to Militarum Tempestus, stormtroopers looked entirely different. Even the most recent crop of Catachans have slight differences in uniform and equipment from the legacy stuff, as do the recent Gaunts Ghosts relative to older Tanith stuff. Some level of redesign for the Steel Legion and/or DKoK is entirely possible, especially if it:
A - helps GW separate them from their fetishization by nazi edgelords
B - helps GW actually manufacture them in plastic which has long been a stated issue by the design studio as to why they haven't done DKoK in plastic
HELL, the original DKoK minis were actually Armageddon Steel Legion minis with a different gas mask. If ASL were a headswap in a DKoK kit then we'd actually be coming full circle.
Crimson wrote: I don't know what's going on, but it would be massively unwise to tease with DKoK/IG pics if new plastic version isn't actually happening. Because at this point people will expect that and will be massively disappointed if it turns out to not be the case.
You mean kinda like how GW teased Horus Heresy players a few weeks ago with what turned out to be the Age of Sigmar 3.0 preview?
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
I dont get why you're having such a tough time with this. Fluffwise, something like 50% of all guard regiments are equipped like Cadians. Its established that a lot of planets issue standardized equipment manufactured by local forgeworlds (particularly regiments drawn from non-hive worlds that don't have their own native manufactorums to produce equipment) and as such regiments from different worlds will often wear similar equipment and uniforms. These guard could well be from a world that utilize the same standardized gas masks and helmets as krieg does. As it stands, we don't know what the rest of their kit looks like, so saying that they look "just like Krieg" based off a helmet and gas mask is a whooooole lot of conjecture.
At no point did I say there was an issue with the fluff of there being others with similar uniforms. I even mentioned the Cadian armour being in use by other regiments and seen as a standard guardsman uniform just a few posts ago.
I can see GW moving to single, standard, Imperial Guard uniform.
The genius of Space Marines, which they've tried to copy with other armies, is that it's one product line you can paint different colors to get different factions. Add a box of Wolf Whatevers and you've got a brand new fully supported army ready to go.
But with the 2nd edition metals GW trapped itself into the idea that each world wears a different uniform requiring GW to support different infantry for different sub factions.
Finding a way to move to a Marine (or Ork, or Eldar) model would really open up the guard. I think most of us could live with Cadians+head swaps for most regiments. Kind of surprised the Cadian never got a Mordian or Tallarn conversion sprue.
So Trenchers with 3 sets of heads on the sprue might be a way to do that. Steel Legion, Krieg, maybe add something new, Salvar Chem Dogs or something brand new.
Segersgia wrote: I might be understanding this wrong, but remember that this is part of Kill Team. maybe something in the ballpark of the Rogue Trader set. I'm not expecting an entire new plastic Krieg range outside of this.
It doesn't need to be a 'Krieg range.' A guard regiment is fine with basically 3 kits: Infantry squad, heavy weapons and command squad (and that could really be condensed to 2 kits).
As long as there are enough bodies and all the weapon options are there (which is finally true of Cadians), its done.
They could happily do a Kill Team box with the infantry squad and follow up with its separate release and HW Teams/Command 3-4 months later. The tanks, auxiliaries and etc can be kept as is or redone as needed on an individual basis when the Codex comes.
Tygre wrote: If you look at the limited edition Catachan Colonel, he is wearing the same type of armour as the Cadians. So standardization might be happening.
That's not a new thing, the officer in the command squad kit also has cadian-style armour.
Tygre wrote: If you look at the limited edition Catachan Colonel, he is wearing the same type of armour as the Cadians. So standardization might be happening.
That's not a new thing, the officer in the command squad kit also has cadian-style armour.
I don't collect Catachans, so I didn't notice. But it still seems like standardization is happening.
Tygre wrote: I don't collect Catachans, so I didn't notice. But it still seems like standardization is happening.
Entirely possible, but I would want more than one point of data (1 out of 3 recent Catachans with Cadian pattern armour) before going down that rabbit hole.
God I hope GW do something in the lore like Marian Reforms/mass production with the Imperial Guard equipment supply chain. It would make so much more sense on a galactic scale and maybe give IG a new hero that isn't locked to a single planet's forces.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
I find that hard to believe with the inane prices they put on them.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
I don't think these will be generic or Steel Legion, the promo pic when saturated has that metal bar on top of the helmet that the Krieg models have but which I've never seen on Steel Legion models or art.
When I searched Kill Team on the US site I also clicked on the Pariah Nexus link and got the 404, not sure if what was still available prior on the website.
I did note that the rulebook are still available and that worries me this will just be a new starter and not a rules update.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
Find this extremely hard to believe and completely based on uninformed opinion as kreig is regularly on the fw list of top selling models in thier top 10 lists… those lists are based on $ totals. Considering krieg models are so old now and any molds have been paid off many years ago any current sales are mostly pure profit.
gungo wrote: Considering krieg models are so old now and any molds have been paid off many years ago any current sales are mostly pure profit.
That's not how resin casting works, you're thinking of plastic. Resin molds have a very limited lifespan and require regular replacement, and if a mold breaks and isn't replaced then the models go OOS until a new mold is available. Many Death Korps models have, at various times, been unavailable for a matter of months or years. You'd think that if Krieg line were a cash cow they wouldn't have iconic units like Grenadiers vanish from sale forever, or have 2/3 of the heavy weapons sculpts cut, or have a rotating selection of models be unavailable. Maybe it's just the basic infantry that sell well, in which case giving them a KT rendition in plastic makes sense.
This is a brand new game, wholly redesigned to capture the brutality of special-ops combat in the 41st Millennium. Whether you’re a raw recruit or returning specialist, if you like the idea of crack squads of geared-up operatives hunting each other through the bullet-riddled war zones of Warhammer 40,000, you’re going to love it.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
Find this extremely hard to believe and completely based on uninformed opinion as kreig is regularly on the fw list of top selling models in thier top 10 lists… those lists are based on $ totals. Considering krieg models are so old now and any molds have been paid off many years ago any current sales are mostly pure profit.
Krieg are basically never on the bestseller section and besides that, I've literally never seen anyone with a legit Krieg army, only recast ones. With other FW stuff (outside of the Chaplain dread which infamously at that one tournament had more being used than actual models of it had ever been sold by FW) it's not uncommon to see legit models, but Krieg are just recaster central.
Which of course they are. For the sheer amount of models you need to buy and for the shoddy quality they come in, nobody actually has that much money and that little sense to invest in them.
This is a brand new game, wholly redesigned to capture the brutality of special-ops combat in the 41st Millennium. Whether you’re a raw recruit or returning specialist, if you like the idea of crack squads of geared-up operatives hunting each other through the bullet-riddled war zones of Warhammer 40,000, you’re going to love it.
Goose LeChance wrote: They evolved from an alternate paint scheme into their own unique faction/aesthetic, that is both wildly popular and financially successful... and the idea is to revert them back to a paint scheme for some generic coatguard?
I can only hope that's not the case.
Krieg haven't been financially successful for FW in a good long while. If they ever truly were.
Find this extremely hard to believe and completely based on uninformed opinion as kreig is regularly on the fw list of top selling models in thier top 10 lists… those lists are based on $ totals. Considering krieg models are so old now and any molds have been paid off many years ago any current sales are mostly pure profit.
Krieg are basically never on the bestseller section and besides that, I've literally never seen anyone with a legit Krieg army, only recast ones. With other FW stuff (outside of the Chaplain dread which infamously at that one tournament had more being used than actual models of it had ever been sold by FW) it's not uncommon to see legit models, but Krieg are just recaster central.
Which of course they are. For the amount of models you need to buy and for the shoddy quality they come in, nobody actually has that much money and that little sense to invest in them.
The average IQ of a Krieger seems to have dropped a bit, judging by that trailer.
Why not just push the detonator, instead of gormlessly waiting to get killed? It's not as if he can have been expecting to survive the resulting blast anyway.
What was sniper guy doing? Does he really need to be told to shoot at the ork which is pinning down all of his squadmates?
Depending on how the sculpts look and how much GW are willing to invest in expanding that into the main Guard army range, a Guard army might be back on the menu for me, alongside all the new Ork stuff.
Sweet Gork, GW are trying to bankrupt me this year
Sabotage! wrote: I did note that the rulebook are still available and that worries me this will just be a new starter and not a rules update.
If so I'm out.
You and me both.
Luckily the Warcom article says:
"The ultimate reimagining of Warhammer 40,000’s iconic skirmish game – Kill Team – is on the way. This is a brand new game, wholly redesigned to capture the brutality of special-ops combat in the 41st Millennium."
So it will be a new game - I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it. I felt Warcry was a huge step forward from KT, and if they could make a game a bit more granular in the 40k Universe but still as fun, I'd be all over it.
I think the Kommandos and Krieg squad are intended as stand alone sets like the warcry warbands are. There's a lot of unique sculpts apparent (burna, the triple shoota, bomb squig, the Krieg sniper, etc) in the video. It would mean the units probably won't be useable in 40k outside of perhaps a novelty addon, like the warcry warbands in AoS.
Ignispacium wrote: I think the Kommandos and Krieg squad are intended as stand alone sets like the warcry warbands are. There's a lot of unique sculpts apparent (burna, the triple shoota, bomb squig, the Krieg sniper, etc) in the video. It would mean the units probably won't be useable in 40k outside of perhaps a novelty addon, like the warcry warbands in AoS.
Yeah that sounds about right. You'll be able to take "Elite Krieg Squad" as part of your army consisting of exactly 1 sniper, 1 office, 8 troopers etc. and that's all the Guard will get.
Gimgamgoo wrote:New rules for KT? Meh... Bought all the books inc Pariah Nexus over the last 3 months. Typical.
Yea I'm not pumped at having to retire yet another batch of Games Workshop books, including all the cards I tracked down That said, KT is the most fun I've had playing a GW game in decades, likewise a good number of my friends, so I'm pretty emotionally invested as well.
Ignispacium wrote:I think the Kommandos and Krieg squad are intended as stand alone sets like the warcry warbands are ...
highlord tamburlaine wrote:If GW actually did Warcry- style boxed sets of unique 40k warbands ...
My number one fear for KT 2E is actually that it'll lift too heavily from Warcry, a game I dig the minis for but just cannot get into for how extremely random it is.
That said, if GW wants to port in the arms race from 9E, I do think we need new bones, or at least new tools for everyone not just the 40k factions enjoying 9E codexes. (Which is me hoping that we don't get dripfed faction rules, as happens in the GW games with the poorest balance. Aka the big ones.)
Ignispacium wrote:I think the Kommandos and Krieg squad are intended as stand alone sets like the warcry warbands are. There's a lot of unique sculpts apparent (burna, the triple shoota, bomb squig, the Krieg sniper, etc) in the video. It would mean the units probably won't be useable in 40k outside of perhaps a novelty addon, like the warcry warbands in AoS.
Kommandos are Kommandos, they're not something you take a whole army of. And for the Krieg- they're Guardsmen. If there are a couple of riflemen in the mix you're good to go. Replacing special weapons shouldn't be too much of a problem. If they're monopose and you end up with a bunch of repeated poses in an army, that's at least less of a problem with the faceless and uniform look of the Kriegers.
I'm currently assembling an army of pewter Stormtroopers. I have exactly four infantry sculpts, which are really two infantry sculpts each with two head variants. Replacing heads to give them a little more individuality and make the repeats less weird is hell on earth. New Kriegers might not be as posable or flexible as Cadians, but just by virtue of being plastic they'll be workable.
Gimgamgoo wrote:New rules for KT?
Meh... Bought all the books inc Pariah Nexus over the last 3 months. Typical.
Yea I'm not pumped at having to retire yet another batch of Games Workshop books, including all the cards I tracked down That said, KT is the most fun I've had playing a GW game in decades, likewise a good number of my friends, so I'm pretty emotionally invested as well.
Ignispacium wrote:I think the Kommandos and Krieg squad are intended as stand alone sets like the warcry warbands are ...
highlord tamburlaine wrote:If GW actually did Warcry- style boxed sets of unique 40k warbands ...
My number one fear for KT 2E is actually that it'll lift too heavily from Warcry, a game I dig the minis for but just cannot get into for how extremely random it is.
That said, if GW wants to port in the arms race from 9E, I do think we need new bones, or at least new tools for everyone not just the 40k factions enjoying 9E codexes. (Which is me hoping that we don't get dripfed faction rules, as happens in the GW games with the poorest balance. Aka the big ones.)
TBH I hope that it takes a page out of Warcry mechanically speaking. Kill Team being just 40k with a couple rules mods didn't really result in a meaningfully unique gameplay experience that would justify me playing it over 40k proper. I hope they also lift some of the more interesting concepts from Shadow War Armageddon too.
stonehorse wrote: Would like to see Kill Team take queues from Warhammer underworlds series.
• set teams, with unique sculpts.
• hex based boards.
• objective cards, call them mission cards..
• power cards, call them something else.
Doubtful that it will happen, but think it would give 40k a great hybrid boardgame that is idea for those who are new to the hobby.
Last thing I want, as an underworlds player, is a clone of the game made to split the player base.
I'd prefer all the stand alone games be different.
I'm not saying a direct port of Warhammer underworlds, just take some queues from it.
I'd put good money on this version having set teams that are sold like Warhammer and warbands. GW have been putting a lot of effort into stopping kit bashed and customization of their models, and an ever shrinking warmer list. It makes sense for them to go that final step.
Also seeing as 40K 9th edition shrunk down the standard sized board, I think Kill Team will do the same, so a hex based board would be ideal.
Kill teams boards will stay the same size. The only reason 40k changed board sizes, is it's made of multiple Kill team boards now (depending on game size). They want Kill Team to remain a gateway game for 40k. The boards will stay the same.
Plastic Krieg is definitely awesome, but at the same time, I can't see them doing enough to make an army of them and no doubt the box will be limited and sell out very, very fast. If the Rogue Trader game is any indication, it'll be full of wonderful unique miniatures that won't be see again outside of that box.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Plastic Krieg is definitely awesome, but at the same time, I can't see them doing enough to make an army of them and no doubt the box will be limited and sell out very, very fast. If the Rogue Trader game is any indication, it'll be full of wonderful unique miniatures that won't be see again outside of that box.
Rogue Trader was a one-off, all other boxes were just repackaged 40k units, usually before their actual release date
Another thing to note with the rules changes is that stat profiles look something like that "Intro to Kill Team" game coming from B&N latter this year (though I doubt we will see hex based movement).
jaredb wrote: Kill teams boards will stay the same size. The only reason 40k changed board sizes, is it's made of multiple Kill team boards now (depending on game size). They want Kill Team to remain a gateway game for 40k. The boards will stay the same.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thought they shrunk them down to a random size to invalidate people's collection and bite into 3rd party mat makers sales.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Plastic Krieg is definitely awesome, but at the same time, I can't see them doing enough to make an army of them and no doubt the box will be limited and sell out very, very fast. If the Rogue Trader game is any indication, it'll be full of wonderful unique miniatures that won't be see again outside of that box.
I dunno. Seems to me that boxes for Infantry, HW, and Command Squads would only add three SKUs. And FW could supplement those GW kits with some of their existing kits. Works for Custodes.
jaredb wrote: Kill teams boards will stay the same size. The only reason 40k changed board sizes, is it's made of multiple Kill team boards now (depending on game size). They want Kill Team to remain a gateway game for 40k. The boards will stay the same.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thought they shrunk them down to a random size to invalidate people's collection and bite into 3rd party mat makers sales.
Yeah, not everything is designed to be malicious lol. One Kill Team board is the size for Patrol games, two for Combat Patrol, and four for Strikeforce. The existing kill team boards are also designed to be placed together, so if you were into Kill Team, the transition to 40k is easy (you already have a board and terrain). It's a system I really like, TBH.
I really dodged a bullet by holding off on the elites and commader expansions. Was going to build a drukhari kill team since I got the combat patrol box for 40k. This is an opportunity for them to clean up and improve on the game though, and I hope it isn't as messy as last time. It'd be nice if there was less bookkeeping.
That last Kreig went out like a champ! David Arnold, if you would do the honours please...
Totally pumped for this and filled with joy because I only bought the core manual, back in 2018, with the only "expansion" being Blackstone Fortress. And it turned out to be all that I needed save for purchasing the models for other teams.
So many hopes and fears for the new edition but for tonight, at least, we can celebrate this most excellent news.
chaos0xomega wrote: Kill Team being just 40k with a couple rules mods didn't really result in a meaningfully unique gameplay experience that would justify me playing it over 40k proper.
Kill Team being better balanced, much smaller and faster (in all ways possible, from gaming to hobbying) 40k 8E was 110% why I loved playing it so much, and why I played multiple games every Monday night for over a year, and why I have friends who have turned down 40k for decades give in and make teams, and why I have friends with long dusty 40k armies put aside their angst with the Dub and return to the table. Strong doubts a bespoke, not-40k version of 40k would have quite that effect - Warcry certainly hasn't with anyone I know, as far as a bespoke, not-AOS version of AOS goes.
But I'm here for bringing in a far better campaign system from, well, any product at all. KT 1E's version is abysmal IMO.
Yeah I'm with you, I loved Kill Team during the time of 9th, the revision after that was too complicated for me. Kill Team nights were huge at my last store, 30-50 people a night and convinced myself and several others to try out new armies after having fun playing a squad. I'm looking forward to a redo of Kill Team, hope they keep it stupid simple.
As for the trailer, I don't think this is intentional but there were definitely a few parts in the beginning that felt comical rather than grimdark. In the initial sequence the DKoK felt more like TF2 Meet the Pyro than 40k.
Kill Team didn't have what I wanted from the game so we only played it once (the Level up system was a joke unfortunately). So I don't care about the game, but the Death Korps fit into my Cultists and those Kommandoz are... Kommandoz in Plastic, so I'll take them
I'm hoping this version of Kill Team is more like Necromunda / Shadow War Armageddon. What I'm expecting is a system more in line with 9th edition and the philosophy that entails.
I did not like current kill team because the boards were far too small and I'd rather just play on a 4x4. The system felt like it only rewarded ranged units when they stood still, and melee units when they ran up the board as quickly as possible. This gave little avenue for fire and maneuver style gameplay. It was even worse if you played a faction that didn't really have viable melee (same holds true in 40k too). I'm also consistently annoyed by the fact that standard small arms are just never appropriately deadly. Please take out the terrible reading mechanic.
if you were into Kill Team, the transition to 40k is easy (you already have a board and terrain). It's a system I really like, TBH.
That's why I doubt we will see Warcry like Sets without any options.
Agreed, it'll continue using existing kits. Any new kits included in Kill Team, will just be early access to future shelf kits. I wouldn't be surprised if the new Ork Boyz kit is first available in this new killteam box, based on the video.
Given that the orks in the trailer are specifically called Kommandos I suspect what's in the Kill Team box will be a new Kommando kit. Lots of orks this year it seems.
I really hope this edition of KT is a brand new game with its own identity. My main issue with the game as it is right now is that I can nbever get one because people just shrug their shoulders and tell me it's just samller 40k. Its a gateway into the main game and hold nothing for anyone in my area.
Arachnofiend wrote: Given that the orks in the trailer are specifically called Kommandos I suspect what's in the Kill Team box will be a new Kommando kit. Lots of orks this year it seems.
This is congruent with GW's claim from the start of 9th that every xenos will get a Necron sized upgrade in due course.
Voss wrote: Is that one of those things people are now saying GW claimed, or is it something that can be verified as an actual GW claim?
Because the former seems to happen a lot more than the latter...
Not sure, but despite a long history of being skeptical I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt this time. They've revamped the sisters, Necrons and now Orks.
If I see Nids get even one preview I'm going to be hopefully many more are coming after.
I believe the statement was that every faction was getting at least 1 new model with it's release.
Not everything was getting a Necron/Sister (and now Ork) style expansion but they would get at least 1 new model.
BroodSpawn wrote: I believe the statement was that every faction was getting at least 1 new model with it's release.
Not everything was getting a Necron/Sister (and now Ork) style expansion but they would get at least 1 new model.
Yeah, it's pretty much how AoS moved everything into 2nd edition. Some dexes got large waves, some got a single miniature, and then were several releases with vs boxes like we are getting with the Thousand Sons/GK that included the new model for each one.
Sledgehammer wrote: I'm hoping this version of Kill Team is more like Necromunda / Shadow War Armageddon. What I'm expecting is a system more in line with 9th edition and the philosophy that entails.
Spoiler:
I did not like current kill team because the boards were far too small and I'd rather just play on a 4x4. The system felt like it only rewarded ranged units when they stood still, and melee units when they ran up the board as quickly as possible. This gave little avenue for fire and maneuver style gameplay. It was even worse if you played a faction that didn't really have viable melee (same holds true in 40k too). I'm also consistently annoyed by the fact that standard small arms are just never appropriately deadly. Please take out the terrible reading mechanic.
If a SWA type set, I am a buyer. But I expect a box with 10 models and a basic rulebook for 125€ instead. Maybe GW will surprise me in a good way.
BroodSpawn wrote: I believe the statement was that every faction was getting at least 1 new model with it's release.
Not everything was getting a Necron/Sister (and now Ork) style expansion but they would get at least 1 new model.
That seems more likely, especially considering that's all Dark Eldar got.
They could also just pump out 10 plastic Krieg models and call it a day. They haven't hinted at any other regiments so I'm not going crazy yet. I still won't forgive them for letting the great Tallarn and Elsyian kits die. The Elsyian sculpts were inspired and the Tallarn rough riders were very unique. Almost made me think they were sculpted by someone familiar in historical miniatures.
Voss wrote: Is that one of those things people are now saying GW claimed, or is it something that can be verified as an actual GW claim?
Because the former seems to happen a lot more than the latter...
Regardless of whether they said that then or not, they DID say when they first showed Zogrod and the Beast Snagga release box that we'd only seen nearly half of the Ork releases.
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ScarletRose wrote: Yeah that sounds about right. You'll be able to take "Elite Krieg Squad" as part of your army consisting of exactly 1 sniper, 1 office, 8 troopers etc. and that's all the Guard will get.
You forgot Guy with Comms that got shot through cover. So 1 Sarge, 1 Sniper, 1 Guy with Phone, and 7 Troopers.
Dagstyrr wrote: They could also just pump out 10 plastic Krieg models and call it a day. They haven't hinted at any other regiments so I'm not going crazy yet. I still won't forgive them for letting the great Tallarn and Elsyian kits die. The Elsyian sculpts were inspired and the Tallarn rough riders were very unique. Almost made me think they were sculpted by someone familiar in historical miniatures.
That was the beauty of old school Forgeworld, it was run by a bunch of historical modelling & war gaming nerds almost as a private project of “what-if Imperial Guard (mainly) was the iconic bits of WW1 & WW2 IN SPACE!” and because of that they came up with much more grounded designs. They weren’t thinking about number of sprues per box or production efficiency or anything, it was complete rule of cool over everything else.
ScarletRose wrote: Yeah that sounds about right. You'll be able to take "Elite Krieg Squad" as part of your army consisting of exactly 1 sniper, 1 office, 8 troopers etc. and that's all the Guard will get.
You forgot Guy with Comms that got shot through cover. So 1 Sarge, 1 Sniper, 1 Guy with Phone, and 7 Troopers.
You're assuming a 10 man squad, it could just be a 5 man squad.
That's why I'm not getting super excited yet, until I see how much they're actually releasing.
ScarletRose wrote: Yeah that sounds about right. You'll be able to take "Elite Krieg Squad" as part of your army consisting of exactly 1 sniper, 1 office, 8 troopers etc. and that's all the Guard will get.
You forgot Guy with Comms that got shot through cover. So 1 Sarge, 1 Sniper, 1 Guy with Phone, and 7 Troopers.
5 man squad, monopose with bits of the rifle attached to part of the head so you'd be better off sculpting a new model than trying to do a weapons swap.
Yeah.
I'm hopeful, my credit card is ready but then again...
I'm looking forward to new kill team to be honest, it will be good if there is a way to fit it into a crusade campaign. As a planetary invasion is happening you've got sabotage going on and various spec ops stuff.
jaredb wrote: Kill teams boards will stay the same size. The only reason 40k changed board sizes, is it's made of multiple Kill team boards now (depending on game size). They want Kill Team to remain a gateway game for 40k. The boards will stay the same.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thought they shrunk them down to a random size to invalidate people's collection and bite into 3rd party mat makers sales.
Yeah, not everything is designed to be malicious lol. One Kill Team board is the size for Patrol games, two for Combat Patrol, and four for Strikeforce. The existing kill team boards are also designed to be placed together, so if you were into Kill Team, the transition to 40k is easy (you already have a board and terrain). It's a system I really like, TBH.
And just random they chose kt sizes like that?
(hint: they knew 3rd party mats and sizes when they made kt boards)
This set is relevant to my interests I must admit. I'll be interested to see what's in it. I've ended up not getting a bunch of the sets recently due to the fomo nature of them, is this set likely to be in stock for a bit longer as a "core" starter?
Oh and I agree about them knowing the table size already before they decided to make the KT boards. I see that and the switch to 32mm bases as an attempt to create a bit more of a closed market for their customers, a bit like what apple does in making all their chargers and connecting wires bespoke so you have to stay inside their ecosystem. Not consumer friendly but probably good business and GW can distort the wargames market enough that it definitely seems to work.
There is one reason alone for the new board sizes, folded up it exactly fits in the standard GW box footprint. The folding Sigmar cardboard board is 44x66 and predates Kill Team.
It could well be packaging related to be fair, I didn't consider that. Trying to get it to fold up neatly into something that fits onto a standard shelf, yeah, I can see that.
I get the sense that GW is a lot more nimble as a company than they used to be. Guild Ball and third party manufacturers were eating their lunch in the fantasy sports arena? Time for a new edition of Blood Bowl. Infinity and other sci-fi skirmish games are popular? Kill Team! It's a shame first edition Kill Team wasn't so hot. Around here, at least, it wasn't received nearly as well as its other sci-fi skirmish competitors. It does sound as though GW has recognized this. I'll wait and see how "all new" the game really is, but my interest has been piqued.
Da Boss wrote: This set is relevant to my interests I must admit. I'll be interested to see what's in it. I've ended up not getting a bunch of the sets recently due to the fomo nature of them, is this set likely to be in stock for a bit longer as a "core" starter?
Probably not. It's a launch box (as in how they advertised Indomitus and Dominion) which means it's supposed to be a single print run that's gone once it sells through. How quickly that happens depends on a couple of factors, but given that Kill Team is 40k the box is probably going to be more popular than Dominion and not stick around for as long.
Also, the first Kill Team starter and Shadow War Armageddon were also pretty good terrain discount bundles and since the box is for Kill Team, the advertised "massive" part is very likely related to the terrain part of the box. Discount terrain from GW isn't plentiful, so the box is probably going to be attractive just for that.
Then there's the new Orks and Guard that may be attractive for 40k proper but not released individually for a while. On the other hand it might be like the Warcry starters were the starter set warbands got individually released after only a month or so. This part is fairly hard to tell, never mind that it'll be a couple of hours before we even have a chance to see how the forces look exactly. If we get a full look at them today at all.
Finally there's a good chance that when the box sells out, it's not going to be replaced by a smaller starter set akin to 40k and AoS and instead GW just gives you the rulebook to buy separately. Which may increase attractiveness of a nice big discount box with terrain and two forces even more.
Rules are an unknown for now so the game might a total bust and change people's mind about buying the box, but given what GW has been able to sell ruleswise in the last decade I'd be surprised to see that have much of an impact.
All of which is to say, I don't think the new Kill Team box will be as pleasant a limited release as Dominion was. Won't complain if I'm wrong, though.
Probably not. It's a launch box (as in how they advertised Indomitus and Dominion) which means it's supposed to be a single print run that's gone once it sells through. How quickly that happens depends on a couple of factors, but given that Kill Team is 40k the box is probably going to be more popular than Dominion and not stick around for as long.
Oh, hey, look!
There goes all my interest.
Well, I'm sure it's for the better, as I already have all the Valour Corps 3d sculpts that I could possibly need/want, and I'm sure the orks will be out there, eventually.
Sasorijap wrote: For the new Kill team version my money is on Warhammer Underworlds but in 40K. I just got that vibe from the trailer.
Oh God, I hope not. But I can definitely see what you mean. It would explain the kommando, nob(?), bomb squig, and burna boy all somehow being in the same set. Maybe some version of underworld, except more free roaming and not restricted to a board game...?
Mr Morden wrote: I'd much prefer a Underworlds stlye Kill team as we would get some great new models for lots of factions at much lower cost than normal
That are completly unusable in the regular game. No thanks.
Sasorijap wrote: For the new Kill team version my money is on Warhammer Underworlds but in 40K. I just got that vibe from the trailer.
Oh God, I hope not. But I can definitely see what you mean. It would explain the kommando, nob(?), bomb squig, and burna boy all somehow being in the same set. Maybe some version of underworld, except more free roaming and not restricted to a board game...?
Orks are getting a new codex soon (beastsnagga boxset including the codex), changes to Kommandos datasheet sound more likely to me. You have 5 Kommandos, one can already be a Nob, let's say you can add 1 to 2 squigbomb's and up to 2 kommandos can take a burna. After all, every new codex has made the armies much more killy, so one might assume Ork units will become more killy too. I think the sprues for the Killteam set will contain the (new) options for Kommandos in 40K.
I'm more expecting a kommand/tankbusta kit. Though, if you look at the current kommando kit, they're covered in explosives, so tank squigs can definitely work with them.
Mr Morden wrote: I'd much prefer a Underworlds stlye Kill team as we would get some great new models for lots of factions at much lower cost than normal
If only there was another GW game that gave a box of miniatures with multiple model types with a couple of options and was about the same price as buying a box of a 40K unit...Warcry.
There is no way GW can put out a skirmish game based on the current version of 40K while that game is half way through updating Codexes. Either that game would ship incomplete (No Tau for you) or it would ship incorrectly/unbalanced. Also, Necromunda and Kill Team both suck for the reason of one wound models and the excess hoops that need to be jumped through to kill or not kill them. Imagine D&D where every party member has 1 HP--so fun.
Now what if there was a derivative of Warhammer* that allowed easy reading stats and weapons and that most models didn't die from a single light weapons or knife stab, but could easily be killed by big weapons or special attacks. Imagine getting rid of special stratagem cards for a list of things you could do, every turn if you had the resources. Imagine a game only requiring a core rule book and your kill team came with all the rules you needed to play them. If only such a game existed.
* It is frightfully easy to rebuild a Warhammer stat line and weapon stats from a Warcry sheet, yet the Warcry sheet is much easier to read when actually playing.
I imagine Kill Team will be more like Warcry, personally. That’s just a guess obviously haha, but seems to suit the skirmish style game they were originally going for. I guess they have Necromunda though as the 40K skirmish game so who knows.
If they go the Warcry rout though it’d mean they can do the same as Warcry and let you use a heap of factions with new rules in the game, along with the teams they release for it.
Well gak. I didn't see that. Thanks for pointing it out.
More Citadel FOMO for us.
Just want to point out that you don't have to buy anything you don't want to. New GW release is a single run box set? You can skip out on getting it. Nobody is judging anybody for not buying a thing. FOMO actually makes it so much easier for me to save money, because I never feel obligated to buy anything unless it's directly and meaningfully related to my current armies. And while I play orks, I'm also not paying $200 for a box set just for the plastic Kommandos.
I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Well gak. I didn't see that. Thanks for pointing it out.
More Citadel FOMO for us.
Just want to point out that you don't have to buy anything you don't want to. New GW release is a single run box set? You can skip out on getting it. Nobody is judging anybody for not buying a thing. FOMO actually makes it so much easier for me to save money, because I never feel obligated to buy anything unless it's directly and meaningfully related to my current armies. And while I play orks, I'm also not paying $200 for a box set just for the plastic Kommandos.
This is HBMC you're talking about. He's basically legally obligated to purchase every GW terrain release, often 10 times. Dude's got a seriously legendary terrain collection.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
It could be like Kill Team: Rogue Trader. Lots of unique minis (that never got a separate release...), some "terrain", and a board but it's probably going to more like that kill team set with skitarii vs GSC.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
TBH underworld warbands are great for unit Champion and characters sculpts. The only plástic oggre Hunter IS one for example, or the four vampire lords.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
Fully agree with this, I'd love a War Cry style Kill Team game that could do the more obscure stuff from 40k lore that doesn't translate as well to the full battle size tabletop game. Warhammer 40k proper gets plenty of support already
I think the basic rules and approach to Kill Team are actually okay. What Kill Team needs to be interesting is:
- special equipment your dudes can achieve
- Weapon enhancements
- Tables to roll on for abilities and changes in the profile
- better Campaign missions
- Artifacts your squad can find
- faction specific upgrades and rules like crusade has
I played some games of Kill Team, read the rules and watched an MWG campaign back when it was released and realized that after about 5 games your squad has reached the end of the Upgrade tree but is in no way different from your starting squad aside from having unlocked some stratagems. After seeing this our group ignored Kill Team, for our needs we rather took MWG Deathwatch rules instead. Kill Team lacks the most important part a game of that size needs. I hope it gets fixed in the new Version.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
Personally I don't want 40k to be held back on it's many, many many necessary updates because GW also needs to make unique relases for a Skimrish game that has a total of 3 players.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
Personally I don't want 40k to be held back on it's many, many many necessary updates because GW also needs to make unique relases for a Skimrish game that has a total of 3 players.
So like the I dunno , 7, 8 ... specialist games current in production? (Underworlds, warcry, necromunda, adeptus titanicus, aeronautica imperialis, horus heresy, technically various forms of warhammer quest...) Why do you really believe 40k would lose momentum and investment because GW branches into other stuff? Like they aren't constantly hiring more people and expanding their production.
Mr. Grey wrote: Just want to point out that you don't have to buy anything you don't want to. New GW release is a single run box set? You can skip out on getting it.
And if I do want it, but am not currently in a position to buy it?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
Personally I don't want 40k to be held back on it's many, many many necessary updates because GW also needs to make unique relases for a Skimrish game that has a total of 3 players.
So like the I dunno , 7, 8 ... specialist games current in production? (Underworlds, warcry, necromunda, adeptus titanicus, aeronautica imperialis, horus heresy, technically various forms of warhammer quest...) Why do you really believe 40k would lose momentum and investment because GW branches into other stuff? Like they aren't constantly hiring more people and expanding their production.
Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Personally, I’m hoping that we do get a dedicated game with its own releases. I don’t want its creativity held back by each release also needing to be usable in 40k (a game I have no interest in ever playing).
Personally I don't want 40k to be held back on it's many, many many necessary updates because GW also needs to make unique relases for a Skimrish game that has a total of 3 players.
So like the I dunno , 7, 8 ... specialist games current in production? (Underworlds, warcry, necromunda, adeptus titanicus, aeronautica imperialis, horus heresy, technically various forms of warhammer quest...) Why do you really believe 40k would lose momentum and investment because GW branches into other stuff? Like they aren't constantly hiring more people and expanding their production.
Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
OTOH, if you don't diversify, you get stagnant. That happened already, and the end result was worse.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
And for those of us who prefer warcry and underworlds?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I bloody hope Kill Team doesn't end up as Warcry or Underworlds because that would just give us heaps of new minis for factions that desperately need them, but that are completly unusable in 40k, monkey paw-style.
Warcry has been treading the line between bespoke kits that are really for Warcry that have AOS rules and rules for using your AOS models in Warcry. They can easily do the same for Kill Team, giving them space to produce more unique minor factions like the Elucidian Starstriders and Gellerpox Infected while also allowing you to use your collection of 40K models in the game.
I just want enough DKOK to make myself an army of them, if they come out with a 5 or 10 man monopose team for KT, much sadness will be had.
Also if they mess up the proportions sadness will ensue. Part of what makes the Forge World DKoK look realistically gritty is they actually use realistic proportions, not the thicc chungus bobbleheads like the current plastic IG.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I think the basic rules and approach to Kill Team are actually okay. What Kill Team needs to be interesting is:
- special equipment your dudes can achieve
- Weapon enhancements
- Tables to roll on for abilities and changes in the profile
- better Campaign missions
- Artifacts your squad can find
- faction specific upgrades and rules like crusade has
I played some games of Kill Team, read the rules and watched an MWG campaign back when it was released and realized that after about 5 games your squad has reached the end of the Upgrade tree but is in no way different from your starting squad aside from having unlocked some stratagems. After seeing this our group ignored Kill Team, for our needs we rather took MWG Deathwatch rules instead. Kill Team lacks the most important part a game of that size needs. I hope it gets fixed in the new Version.
Yeah. The big issues with KT are:
The lack of customizability- it's a skirmish game, let people create their own characters with special equipment, abilities, and roles.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I just want enough DKOK to make myself an army of them, if they come out with a 5 or 10 man monopose team for KT, much sadness will be had.
Also if they mess up the proportions sadness will ensue. Part of what makes the Forge World DKoK look realistically gritty is they actually use realistic proportions, not the thicc chungus bobbleheads like the current plastic IG.
I expect we'll get something in between. Don't forget the current plastic Guardsmen are twenty years old and weren't good when they were released. Human models have moved towards better proportions in the meantime. At least potentially. Khorne Bloodbound from six years ago fit more into the dodgy super buff dudes school of sculpting AoS got back then. The latest Slaanesh models, on the other hand, show surprisingly little of the heroic scale one expects from GW models, humongous weapons aside.
They'll no doubt be a little chunkier and taller than the Forge World models, though, provided I remember them correctly. Been a while since I saw one in person. Just like other contemporary human models are better proportioned but taller than the metal Guardsmen or Necromunda gangers from twenty years ago, the new Krieg models won't adhere to outdated sculpting standards.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
And for those of us who prefer warcry and underworlds?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Don't you understand that each of those is pulling momentum away from the main game? Believe me I'd rather have new units for Ironjawz or Idoneth or Kharadron or updated ones for Skaven or Lizardmen instead of Warcry/Underworlds relases.
And for those of us who prefer warcry and underworlds?
Agreed, underworlds is the main game I play.
I've only played online so far, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that Underworlds is actually...............good.
it still needs a longer game mode, though. Also, Warbands remaining in stock with their cards.....
I know it's probably nothing, but is it weird that they released the animation yesterday, rather than making it the first thing out today? It's not like they were responding to massive leaks or anything.
Anyway...
The Hope Killteam 2.0 Full Krieg kit. Full Kommando kit. Great new modular terrain.
The Expectation Warcry 40,000 Limited Krieg/Commando kit. Set terrain that can be built one way only. Everything in the game determined with cards/specified terrain layouts.
I'm super glad they've finally done committed to full on xenos terrain, hope this is a sign of things to come in the future. I already have Kromlech Ork scenery, so this'll fit right in with what I already have! WOO.
Blimey, that Kill Team box is excellent. Really good stuff GW.
Two great sets of new models, nice unusual terrain and a decent amount of it. Models designed to be nice 40k kits and nice Kill Team kits. Pretty great.
I like the fact that the new orks shown, are moderately compatible with the old booty orks.. they would not look out-of-place so I feel little need to rebuy an army..
Glad that it's Ork terrain as that makes it less appealing for me. Don't play Orks, but the models are great and might be worth a later purchase for narrative 'feebooter" unit.
So it's definitely a no buy for me.
Man, I'm glad I called my LGS and put in a preorder after the trailer yesterday. I knew it was a risk, but it looks like it was worth it. Stupid limited releases.
Both sides look great, but yeah, seems my Death Skull Ork army will be gaining some Blood Axe allies along with the Snakebites from the main Ork release.
Oh my. The Ork team has several things I've converted already or had plans for. I love the burn scars. DKoK are not as nice as the Resin stuff I have, but for a (command) squad the specialists are a nice addition that the FW stuff lacks. New terrain looks meh. If I can't get/want the whole box I'll get the Kommandos at least as soon as possible.
The new Snaggas are...mixed. The dino rider and the "shark" rider are amazing. The Warboss is decent, but not as cool as I imagined him. I thought he'd be bare chested and more swole than Varag Ghoul-chewer, like a proper post-apoc leader dude.
I mean Tyranids have been perhaps in the best Xenos position for models for a long while - but some plastic vores and lictors would be nice to round things out and good old Red Terror could do with coming out of finecast too.
I mean Tyranids have been perhaps in the best Xenos position for models for a long while - but some plastic vores and lictors would be nice to round things out and good old Red Terror could do with coming out of finecast too.
I am nids fan, and would love something new, especially plastic vores/lictors but I do not think there will be anything soon.
Now THIS is what Orktober should have been like. Good Gork, this is insane amount of love given to Orks this year. So much, so grateful. Serious kudos to GW for the amount of releases.
What a great preview show this was. No faffing about. Bam, here's new models. Bam, here's some more. Bam, here's the whole box. Bam, here's more models. Bam, here's some facts. Bam, here's more models. Bam, bam, bam.
OH SNAP, that BT end teaser. It's too much. DKoK, Black Templars, Orks. They're hitting all the beats for me. They're trying to drive me into bankruptcy.
Have we heard anything about the way this new kill team edition is supposed to function? It seems to me like to it will be very similar to the current edition.
Every single model looked awesome. Love it, can't wait to get my hands on that kill team box. If I didn't have a boat load of crap to paint I'd be buying some orkses too.
Sledgehammer wrote: Have we heard anything about the way this new kill team edition is supposed to function? It seems to me like to it will be very similar to the current edition.
All they said was it uses range sticks. They showed a model statline but the layout was so atrocious I couldn't tell if it's different.
Sledgehammer wrote: Have we heard anything about the way this new kill team edition is supposed to function? It seems to me like to it will be very similar to the current edition.
All they said was it uses range sticks. They showed a model statline but the layout was so atrocious I couldn't tell if it's different.
Well, I saw the huge punch out cardboard tokens and the accompanying play area that comes with the set, So i think it's going to be similar in a lot of ways.
I can get around the play area easily by playing on my home board. If the rules themselves continue to emphasize list building and the more gamey aspects of wargames as a whole, then I can't get around that at all. I'm going to pretty much assume at this point that they're going to continue to go down the war(GAME) route.
Galas wrote: This seem like monopose character like models. Lets hope for proper multipart kits out of this.
I mean. I love my gorilla butt orks. But this orks are really just... superior. And still 100% warhammer orky.
If you look at the sprue for the Krieg, looks like a regular unit. I think I counted 8 shouldered lasguns, so there should be enough to make a regular type of unit, then lots of bits to upgrade them.
Though I'm guessing these are not going to be cheap models.
I consider the Orks a cornerstone 40K army. I don’t collect or play them, but they are integral DNA. Nice to see such attention provided to them. Hopefully the Eldar (which I also don’t collect) get the same attention next year.
I was most impressed by their discussion about the kill team kits. A troop or elites kit with enough bits to optimize or personalize those core troops would be most welcome, across most armies.
Yeah I was hoping for a hint - especially with that cool cover art for the Octarius book. Really hoping now we get some similar kind of love as the Orks- could see us getting a Dominatrix the way the works got that Squig Wagon...
Well that was incredible- Killteam looks excellent- love the Ork commando sculpts especially, tempted to pick up the set. Really liking the inference of other dedicated Killteam kits for other factions. I hope they come out and tell us more soon.
The Ork release looks superb - really extensive, especially if you add in the Killteam stuff and some lovely new models there purely from a collector/painter point of view.
Loving the KillTeam box in terms of models and terrain (aside from the copypastes from Mekboy workshop sprues), but am a bit scared how the new rules will pan out. Also not liking the fact that now all the BSF & KT:Rogue Trader minis I collected with effort and considerable expense might be left without official datasheets. If that will be the case then this new edition makes me a sad panda..
Judging by what was said and shown, I expect quite a big overhaul of the rules. Sneaking up and hiding? Elevated positions giving advantages? Revamped shooting and movement ranges? Entirely new statlines? The speculations about KT getting the warcry treatment turned out to be true, at least to a degree, for better or worse.
The Special Ops camaign system sounds intriguing though!
Other than that, solid reveals all round. I also applaud the unboxing and sprue displays, they should do that with every kit reveal tbh
That said, 
