dienekes96 wrote: I was most impressed by their discussion about the kill team kits. A troop or elites kit with enough bits to optimize or personalize those core troops would be most welcome, across most armies.
My concerns for Krieg have swapped from them being monopose to whether they're going to be affordable with all those bits.
silverstu wrote: Yeah I was hoping for a hint - especially with that cool cover art for the Octarius book. Really hoping now we get some similar kind of love as the Orks- could see us getting a Dominatrix the way the works got that Squig Wagon...
It is book 1, so hopefully there is an incoming Tyranid release with book 2.
Sotahullu wrote: Okay, here you can see how frigging huge that chariot is:
This is the one bad model of the bunch, it looks like one of those action figure vehicles with awkwardly oversized seating positions to accomodate 6" figures while keeping the overall size managable for sale, and with the obligatory spring firing turrets
Sotahullu wrote: Okay, here you can see how frigging huge that chariot is:
This is the one bad model of the bunch, it looks like one of those action figure vehicles with awkwardly oversized seating positions to accomodate 6" figures while keeping the overall size managable for sale, and with the obligatory spring firing turrets
I feel the same way. However, I'm sure this kit will be excellent conversion material.
Combine this with the gargants head bunker and the KT ork terrain + Necromunda gang stronhold, and you got a real smorgåsbord of kitbashing potential for a fortified Ork settlement with crazy weapon platforms etc
Happy to see even though the new killteam boxset is limited, the miniatures will be available separately later on. Shame that didn't happen with the Rogue Trader miniatures too.
Krieg sprues look interesting. Two large sprues are connectred as usual and make up 10 guys including special weapons. Third sprue is separate, smaller in size and contains mostly additional equipment such as trenching tools, lasguns at rest and medic kit. It is kind of an upgrade sprue.
jullevi wrote: Krieg sprues look interesting. Two large sprues are connectred as usual and make up 10 guys including special weapons. Third sprue is separate, smaller in size and contains mostly additional equipment such as trenching tools, lasguns at rest and medic kit. It is kind of an upgrade sprue.
You're right, it looks like a KT specific sprue, might not be in the 40k unit box. Doesn't seem to apply to Kommandoz, they have a regular triple sprue.
jullevi wrote: Krieg sprues look interesting. Two large sprues are connectred as usual and make up 10 guys including special weapons. Third sprue is separate, smaller in size and contains mostly additional equipment such as trenching tools, lasguns at rest and medic kit. It is kind of an upgrade sprue.
You're right, it looks like a KT specific sprue, might not be in the 40k unit box. Doesn't seem to apply to Kommandoz, they have a regular triple sprue.
Nah, it's part of the regular kit. A lot of GW kits are on 3 connected sections which they have to break off one of to fit in the standard boxes. You'd also be missing most of the Sarge bits from the retail kit if it was a KT specific sprue.
jullevi wrote: Krieg sprues look interesting. Two large sprues are connectred as usual and make up 10 guys including special weapons. Third sprue is separate, smaller in size and contains mostly additional equipment such as trenching tools, lasguns at rest and medic kit. It is kind of an upgrade sprue.
You're right, it looks like a KT specific sprue, might not be in the 40k unit box. Doesn't seem to apply to Kommandoz, they have a regular triple sprue.
Nah, it's part of the regular kit. A lot of GW kits are on 3 connected sections which they have to break off one of to fit in the standard boxes. You'd also be missing most of the Sarge bits from the retail kit if it was a KT specific sprue.
But that's what jullevi is saying. Krieg don't have a triple sprue, they have a double sprue and a smaller, unconected accessory sprue.
When I watched the Stream, that third Sprue looks much smaller than the other two and without broken connection Stripes on the sprues Sites, like a single/seperate Sprue.
lord_blackfang wrote: But that's what jullevi is saying. Krieg don't have a triple sprue, they have a double sprue and a smaller, unconected accessory sprue.
Sotahullu wrote: Okay, here you can see how frigging huge that chariot is:
Chariot is BIG. White squig mini looks to be pretty hefty too - looks like it's a bit taller than the deff dread. Also, Wortsnagga looks like he might be on a 60mm base?? Either way the base he's sitting on looks giant compared to some of the other orks in that pic.
They intentionally held them in such a way to show they were different but not legible.
Unfortunately yes. I just rewatched and screenshotted that part, and I can't make out the letters on the statblocks. 6 stats total. I'm pretty sure the first stat is "M" as in Movement, and the number probably means the total amount of ruler lenghts for the movement. I'd wager normal move uses a shorter ruler lenght than advancing/charging, which is actually an interesting mechanic!
I think the second last stat is "SV" and it shows a plus sign, pretty sure that's the save value.
There seems to be symbols on the bottom edge of each datasheet, guessing they signify which specialisms are available for each datasheet?
lord_blackfang wrote: But that's what jullevi is saying. Krieg don't have a triple sprue, they have a double sprue and a smaller, unconected accessory sprue.
Are we sure it's not just broken off?
It didn't look much smaller while sitting in the box other than being a single sprue.
Sotahullu wrote: Okay, here you can see how frigging huge that chariot is:
This is the one bad model of the bunch, it looks like one of those action figure vehicles with awkwardly oversized seating positions to accomodate 6" figures while keeping the overall size managable for sale, and with the obligatory spring firing turrets
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Can we arrange mass “more like this please” feedback once we’ve got the sprues in hand?
Because more like this, please.
Yeah definitely -it would be lovely if they added sets like this to all the factions. It would be especially nice if they revealed a release map for that as well. Eldar Rangers is an obvious pick, I'd love to see them do a set for Nid infiltrators and see what they could come up with- its a good opportunity for them to bring in new concepts which could add tot he 40k universe.
Also they said it was limited due to what it says on the box- so Killteam: other war zones then...this all looks very promising provided they back up these hints by laying out what they actually will do for the game in the future..
lord_blackfang wrote: But that's what jullevi is saying. Krieg don't have a triple sprue, they have a double sprue and a smaller, unconected accessory sprue.
Are we sure it's not just broken off?
The sprue doesn't have any connections on its side and it's half size (the same as Cadian upgrade). I don't think it will be exclusive to Kill Team however.
lord_blackfang wrote: But that's what jullevi is saying. Krieg don't have a triple sprue, they have a double sprue and a smaller, unconected accessory sprue.
Are we sure it's not just broken off?
It didn't look much smaller while sitting in the box other than being a single sprue.
You can see it at about 42m of the uploaded stream...
It looks to be its own sprue not broken off anything else.. The full Krieg sprue looks like a full sized sprue (i.e. as large as GW currently make in house), so it's not going to have break off smaller sprues I don't think.
I have to say that the new Kill Team looks awesome. Unfortunately new Krieg and Kommandos mean it will be a hot pick for scalpers. Even if it was a regular stock item, it would be a scalperfest because first print is always limited and there are people who are willing to pay silly amount of money to get plastic Death Korps of Krieg two months before anyone else.
I am not 100% sold on Beastsnaggaz yet but I think I am going to get the army set to get a closer look. I have recently came up with nice Ork skin recipes using Contrast paints and I am tempted to paint more Orks.
Yeah, I'm somewhat tempted by this despite not being a Guard player just because Krieg gas masks make for a pretty good aesthetic for Thousand Sons cultists but there's basically no way I'm getting my hands on a reasonably priced sprue.
tauist wrote: Warcry is AA, right? So can we expect the new KT to be AA as well?
The old kill team was AA, it'd be super weird for them to backtrack on that.
It wasn't completely AA. The movement phase was still IGOUGO.
Anyways, looking up more about Warcry, the new KT isn't a direct Warcry port, since Warcry uses measurements in inches. It might be heavily inspired by Warcry, but will not be identical at least.
Arachnofiend wrote: Yeah, I'm somewhat tempted by this despite not being a Guard player just because Krieg gas masks make for a pretty good aesthetic for Thousand Sons cultists but there's basically no way I'm getting my hands on a reasonably priced sprue.
tauist wrote: Warcry is AA, right? So can we expect the new KT to be AA as well?
The old kill team was AA, it'd be super weird for them to backtrack on that.
It wasn't completely AA. The movement phase was still IGOUGO.
Anyways, looking up more about Warcry, the new KT isn't a direct Warcry port, since Warcry uses measurements in inches. It might be heavily inspired by Warcry, but will not be identical at least.
Warcry also has a Strength/Toughness chart to find what you need to hit and it's a single roll to resolve an attack, Kill Team 2.0 has a fixed WS/BS roll to hit, then saving throws.
tauist wrote: Warcry is AA, right? So can we expect the new KT to be AA as well?
The old kill team was AA, it'd be super weird for them to backtrack on that.
It wasn't completely AA. The movement phase was still IGOUGO.
Anyways, looking up more about Warcry, the new KT isn't a direct Warcry port, since Warcry uses measurements in inches. It might be heavily inspired by Warcry, but will not be identical at least.
Warcry also has a Strength/Toughness chart to find what you need to hit and it's a single roll to resolve an attack, Kill Team 2.0 has a fixed WS/BS roll to hit, then saving throws.
How is that going to account for weapon strenght and unit toughness then? Will be interesting to know more.
Keramory wrote: Oh man. That KT box is nice. I dont know what to do because I don't care about the Krieg and already have 2 sets of the smaller scrap terrain lmao.
Seriously GW can't seem to be giving that scrap terrain away fast enough. Personally loved painting it. Worthless terrain in game though.
Did they ever say what the fortification does yet?
Those Krieg sprues will probably be gold for reselling.
Are there people out there, somewhere in the world, to whom calling something the "best ever!" version every single time you release a new version of something doesn't inspire... A sort of trained reflex of annoyance that they're spewing empty stock phrases on reflex?
Did someone read that Quiz before the Stream started?
One of the Question:
Which Special Name does the Cavalry of Krieg have?
Maybe Plastic Death Rider later?
They had a quiz before the Dominion Celebration preview as well. Nothing in it stuck out as a hint to a new kit, so I would venture to say that they're just fun little quizzes to keep you interested until the live feed starts and not a hint to new kits.
I don’t know how they managed to make the new Boyz more awkwardly posed than the 20+ year old gorilla Boyz kit, but they did. Those legs all look weird relative to the rest of their bodies.
The Krieg sculpts are fat and blobby looking. Forgeworld did them way better.
I would hope for Warcry 1.0 pricing. Contents are about the same. It has to be less than Dominion, right, if they're going to be on the shelves together. Right? And I hope they learned their lesson about jacking up prices with Warcry 2.0 and Pariah Nexus.
lord_blackfang wrote: I would hope for Warcry 1.0 pricing. Contents are about the same. It has to be less than Dominion, right, if they're going to be on the shelves together. Right? And I hope they learned their lesson about jacking up prices with Warcry 2.0 and Pariah Nexus.
I can't believe you managed to write that down without bursting into laughter.
Website updated. Faction list shows that Kommandos and Krieg (Veteran Guardsmen) are separate factions to Orks and AM.
Kinda bummed that they left out wracks, only wyches and kabalites? I know they'll probably do coven stuff eventually but I was really hoping dark eldar would get more than 2 units. Hell, even the krootox and kroot stuff got rules but they couldn't be bothered to slip in basic rules for coven troops.
Nice models and terrain in the box. Price is 'we'll see' and limited stock is blarg.
But it looks like kommandos and orks in general got a lot more love on the models and terrain.
But then the Playmobile monster sled comes along and vomits all over everything. And the beastboss on foot is overdesigned and busy.
Rest of the ork stuff is fairly nice, but... no tankbusters, I guess? Because of reasons, like the old destroyer kit...
Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Yes, "gak" indeed. I missed the preview. So, we're getting another loyalist marines faction and still nothing on CSM? The bad joke continues I see.
The main problem holding me from actually starting a CSM force is the lack of NL representation. I'm happy with all the factions, but I still want my "main" force, and it seems I will wait until 50K to see actual NL sprues.
Specific releases for sub-subfactions like the Black Templars really feels like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. At least the next campaign book seems to be mostly Guard v Xenos.
Arachnofiend wrote: Specific releases for sub-subfactions like the Black Templars really feels like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. At least the next campaign book seems to be mostly Guard v Xenos.
And yet it seems that a non trivial number of people are extremely excited for them.
Yes, "gak" indeed. I missed the preview. So, we're getting another loyalist marines faction and still nothing on CSM? The bad joke continues I see.
The main problem holding me from actually starting a CSM force is the lack of NL representation. I'm happy with all the factions, but I still want my "main" force, and it seems I will wait until 50K to see actual NL sprues.
Arachnofiend wrote: Specific releases for sub-subfactions like the Black Templars really feels like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. At least the next campaign book seems to be mostly Guard v Xenos.
Boo space marine fractions! Yay chaos space marine fractions! Different tastes for different folks.
Arachnofiend wrote: Specific releases for sub-subfactions like the Black Templars really feels like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. At least the next campaign book seems to be mostly Guard v Xenos.
And yet it seems that a non trivial number of people are extremely excited for them.
I mean yeah, if people weren't willing to buy the same models in three different colors GW wouldn't push them so hard. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna grumble about it.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Boo space marine fractions! Yay chaos space marine fractions! Different tastes for different folks.
The Night Lords are actually a good example of why I'm grumbling, since they got done dirty by GW releasing a brand new Raptor Lord and then making it a specific Black Legion character.
One thing I am concerned about with the kommandos is a plague marine style equipment list. They've got a lot of weird-one off guns, and it looks like its going to be an ugly assortment.
(And the Kriegers have.... nothing? Maybe some explosives, vox and medic?)
----
Also the Black Templar prayer might as well end with 'in the name of Khorne.' Yay for eternities of war and blood!
Voss wrote: One thing I am concerned about with the kommandos is a plague marine style equipment list. They've got a lot of weird-one off guns, and it looks like its going to be an ugly assortment.
(And the Kriegers have.... nothing? Maybe some explosives, vox and medic?)
They said on the stream that all the models have 'normal' options as well - and you can see the special weapons on the DKoK sprues.
Love all the little details on the Killteam models, the Krieg bionic arm hidden in the longcoat, the Ork burnaboy with burn scars, Bullet tooth Tony the ork sniper
You know, since the video yesterday is showing the models in the box off, and they're described as Veterans, you think they would have fared slightly better.
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
He looks pretty short compared to his width as well. Maybe the angle or pose, but I just think that the everything above the sternum should be placed on the Ironjawz Megaboss body and it'd look a loooot better.
PS: I love the battering ram on the breacher Kommando. It's something I've wanted to do for 3 years now, but never got around to.
I'm all for customizing my HQs and having them look unique, but I'm more or less okay with the beastboss. It's not a model you need multiple of, so it doesn't need as much customization (though head and weapon options would have been a big plus). And since he basically just has a big choppa and power klaw, the Ironjawz megaboss would make a great stand in, since he's similarly equipped and covered in the skulls of big beasts (and daemons)
Boo space marine fractions! Yay chaos space marine fractions! Different tastes for different folks.
I myself am a SW/Salamanders/Blood Ravens enthusiast, and anytime I want, I can just start collecting them, but if I want NL, I'm royally screwed up. That's my gripe.
Website updated. Faction list shows that Kommandos and Krieg (Veteran Guardsmen) are separate factions to Orks and AM.
I really like how Deathwatch, THE faction fielding Kill Teams, is just a footnote in SM section. Despite being as different from SM as CSM or GK are. Brilliant!
Also, 10 kommandos vs 10 IG? That might have been fair fight once, but even since idiotic orkstode buff, it's now what, 4x more points on ork side? I wonder if the game will look like trailer, 10 IG vs 2 orks and a squig, with IG having uphill fight
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I guess I'm in the minority for liking the Beastboss? Heck, he could probably waltz into an Ironjawz warband with very little need of conversion too.
My only worry is if he'll be big enough to adequately represent a boss.
Fingers crossed for some decent rules in this box (along with a decent price).
It's sort of growing on me. It's busy, hella' busy but it's definitely salvegable with a bit of attention from the sidecutters... that topknot would be the first thing to go!
Also, 10 kommandos vs 10 IG? That might have been fair fight once, but even since idiotic orkstode buff, it's now what, 4x more points on ork side? I wonder if the game will look like trailer, 10 IG vs 2 orks and a squig, with IG having uphill fight
We know next to nothing about the rules of the game, so can't begin to think how it plays and is balanced out.
Those 10 Orks may not all be on a Team, or the Krieg dudes maybe marksmen that would make a Marine jealous.
Am I imagining things or did they say Kriegers had seven wounds or something? The game should be more balanced that just "10 orks vs 10 guardsmen using 40k rules"
GaroRobe wrote: Am I imagining things or did they say Kriegers had seven wounds or something? The game should be more balanced that just "10 orks vs 10 guardsmen using 40k rules"
You are not imagining that. Presumably they are following the Warcry path where even the cheap mooks have 5-8 wounds, and your leader 30. The weapon damage will be more variable, and critical hits (a roll of a six) do bonus damage based on the weapon profile. Again, that assumes GW is using the Warcry model.
People were saying that KT should just have different datasheets that gave models more wounds from the moment we saw the Injury rules. I, for one, am not going to miss that mechanic.
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
He looks pretty short compared to his width as well. Maybe the angle or pose, but I just think that the everything above the sternum should be placed on the Ironjawz Megaboss body and it'd look a loooot better.
PS: I love the battering ram on the breacher Kommando. It's something I've wanted to do for 3 years now, but never got around to.
.
I think he looks short because he's got a lot of shoulder and back armour and he's leaning forward. Doing a sort of lean forward and scream at the enemy pose. So from front on he looks short, but from side on I'd expect to see some lean to his back and neck so that he's showing that more pitched forward/hunched look
GaroRobe wrote: You know, since the video yesterday is showing the models in the box off, and they're described as Veterans, you think they would have fared slightly better.
Seems like a fairly lore-accurate representation of basic humans vs Orks when not supported by artillery and tonks.
Are there people out there, somewhere in the world, to whom calling something the "best ever!" version every single time you release a new version of something doesn't inspire... A sort of trained reflex of annoyance that they're spewing empty stock phrases on reflex?
Yes. Lots of people don’t get bent out of shape over toy soldier marketing language.
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
I'm not yelling at you per se, but this is not news. Those days of highly customizable kits are gone, and they aren't going to come back. People keep brining it up like they think it's going to change, when it clearly isn't.
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
I'm not yelling at you per se, but this is not news. Those days of highly customizable kits are gone, and they aren't going to come back. People keep brining it up like they think it's going to change, when it clearly isn't.
The first wave of sister models are super customizable. Look at the Canoness. The kit gives you:
*Four head options
*Two backpacks
*Two torsos
*And four/five weapons per hand (bolt pistol, plasma pistol, inferno pistol or condemnor boltgun in her left hand. Her right hand can be assembled holding a choice of chainsword, power sword, blessed blade, null rod or brazier of holy fury.) I mean, look at the two models
Spoiler:
The only thing I'll knock the model for is she is standing on a very big tactical rock shaped like a pillar. That's really thing that can get repetitive if you have more than one.
Some of the new ork stuff has options as well, just not as many. The Painboss has two heads and can swap out his left hand. Though the model will still have identical backpack and limbs, so not as great as the canoness.
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
I'm not yelling at you per se, but this is not news. Those days of highly customizable kits are gone, and they aren't going to come back. People keep brining it up like they think it's going to change, when it clearly isn't.
Blastum wrote: I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
I do like the new ork boyz and associated models. They could easily blend with the older models so that’s good.
Now I want to see Eldar get a massive Exodite release to face off vs Beast Snaggas in a recreation of Dino Riders.
Looking at some of the group shots, one of the things that make the new beast snaggas and new boys stand apart from the older models is that they are using a shade or two lighter green on the skin.
The two orks in the bottom center. Left is the old model with a stick bomb, right is a new one. The new ones are proportioned a tad differently, with bulkier necks and more of a hump to the back than sinking in between the shoulders, but the color on the new studio orks is a lot brighter. They even painted the bikers in the center in the new brighter scheme.
Looking at the feet, it looks like most the new boys and kommandos will be easy to fit onto 25mm bases so I can fit them into units with all my current orkboys. A few will stick over the edges, but then so do some of the current orkboys.
I would love to see Eldar, Khorne and Astra Militarum get an update.
So, the big question for me is if it’s worth getting the set with Ork codex? Or wait it out for the Ork Codex to come out on its own? I might get the BeastSnaggas and just go crazy converting my Ork boyz. Killzone looks terrific but I have no need for all that plastic.
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
They're a bit hit and miss. Some are fine. Some are jumping to a completely different aesthetic. Others are... chonky plastic toys thrown together with little rhyme or reason. The Squighauler definitely falls into the latter, as do some of the bosses.
The Beastie-boys are odd for the size and some of the details, but for orks that's oddly fine.
The Squighog riders are likely to primarily suffer rules-wise. If they can't make Khorne Juggernauts survivable enough or dangerous enough, I doubt that they're going to manage it with orks.
Blastum wrote: I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
How long before we see the conversions?
That's exactly what I'm getting them for!
The sprues will tell the real story.
Website updated. Faction list shows that Kommandos and Krieg (Veteran Guardsmen) are separate factions to Orks and AM.
Well crap, looks like Rogue Traders and my favorites, Servants of the Abyss, are out.
This makes me a bit undecided about the new edition. I might buy the box to get savings on the minis and terrain, but remains to be seen whether I want to stick to using KT 1.0 rules, I've invested too much into minis which will now be left without rules.
There's still a small chance that those old minis will get rules - IIRC the Rogue Traders and BSF models always had faction key
words such as that you could field them alongside other factions. But it doesn't look too promising, especially with the models being OOP and all..
I always liked KT 1.0 rules too. I think GW went a little too far with the rules rewrite. Now there is no connection to big 40K anymore, aside from some non-specialist miniature builds.. I can only hope the new rules system is vastly superior to the old one.
Most likely will end up playing both ruleset editions, as well as the fan-made HH edition.
zend wrote: I don’t know how they managed to make the new Boyz more awkwardly posed than the 20+ year old gorilla Boyz kit, but they did. Those legs all look weird relative to the rest of their bodies.
The Krieg sculpts are fat and blobby looking. Forgeworld did them way better.
I'm one of the people that disliked the old boyz, so I'm mostly happy to see a change.
But yeah, I agree that the Krieg sculpts are a step down from the FW version, both in terms of details and proportions, but they still look good and I think at a distance they'll probably look better (not zoomed in so much that a 30mm tall model isn't taking about 150mm of my monitor's real estate).
If you're painting them purely as display models though, yeah, definitely a step down, get your hands on those FW models before they're gone.
The more highlighted and cartoony paintjob does the plastic dkok no favors though, plus the red lenses. The older schemes all had more dark and tradional gas mask lenses, with these they went with a space marine red lens look which IMO doesn't work very well.
The resin models are better, but a more gritty paintjob would bring these plastics more in line with what we were used to seeing.
What bothers me most about the plastic Krieg are the paintjobs. I think they will look much better if painted the way shown on the FW page.
But they are a tad chunkier, probably so that they will not make existing guard plastics look completely ridiculous in comparison if fielded in the same army.
I do prefer the shape of the old gas masks too. They look like hastily sewn together bits of leather, the new plastic ones look like they've been sculpted to look more skull shape.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually they're not terribly different in size when you scale them so the bases are the same...
Flipsiders wrote: Haven't seen anyone say this, but the new "Beastboss" is so, so busy. Definitely takes the customizability out of the model, which is a huge minus for Orks. Other stuff like Ghaz and the cars made up for it by looking cool, but I can't say the same in this case.
Spoiler:
I'm not yelling at you per se, but this is not news. Those days of highly customizable kits are gone, and they aren't going to come back. People keep brining it up like they think it's going to change, when it clearly isn't.
The first wave of sister models are super customizable. Look at the Canoness. The kit gives you:
*Four head options
*Two backpacks
*Two torsos
*And four/five weapons per hand (bolt pistol, plasma pistol, inferno pistol or condemnor boltgun in her left hand. Her right hand can be assembled holding a choice of chainsword, power sword, blessed blade, null rod or brazier of holy fury.) I mean, look at the two models
Spoiler:
The only thing I'll knock the model for is she is standing on a very big tactical rock shaped like a pillar. That's really thing that can get repetitive if you have more than one.
Some of the new ork stuff has options as well, just not as many. The Painboss has two heads and can swap out his left hand. Though the model will still have identical backpack and limbs, so not as great as the canoness.
Yeah, and they're literally both in the same pose which is what I was talking about. Not the fact you can have boltgun or crossbowthing or sword or hammer. It may be that the beast boss only has this one weapon option.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Can we arrange mass “more like this please” feedback once we’ve got the sprues in hand?
Because more like this, please.
Yeah definitely -it would be lovely if they added sets like this to all the factions. It would be especially nice if they revealed a release map for that as well. Eldar Rangers is an obvious pick, I'd love to see them do a set for Nid infiltrators and see what they could come up with- its a good opportunity for them to bring in new concepts which could add tot he 40k universe.
Also they said it was limited due to what it says on the box- so Killteam: other war zones then...this all looks very promising provided they back up these hints by laying out what they actually will do for the game in the future..
Yeah, that was the most intriguing part of the show, IMHO. Adam suggested this box was limited because there might be other war zones to follow. He also kept making a big deal about how you could previously play Kill Team with existing kits, but that they lacked a lot of the options – medics, snipers, etc. – that made the game work. I took this as a hint that perhaps we'd see new kits for other factions that have KT options. Could be a good excuse to update old unit kits like Raptors, Eldar Guardians, Chaos Cultists outside of the normal Codex windows. Exciting times!
Well, I have waited about 20 years for plastic Death Korps (after seeing the illustrations in the 3rd Guard codex I think)... If like modern 40k models then they are great but personally the chunkiness is a major let down for me. I mean, legs almost as thick as their heads and utterly massive weapons. Conveniently, I have another plan. Google "wargames atlantic german infantry death korps of krieg" and it comes up with convincing conversions for DKoK which are relatively cheap and quick to do.
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
I do like the new ork boyz and associated models. They could easily blend with the older models so that’s good.
I'm in the same boat. Not liking this new beast snagga range at all. They look like they came straight from AOS. That boss is so cartoonish also.... to each their own I guess. I always thought Ork would go in Mad Max direction, rather than Flintstones...
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
I do like the new ork boyz and associated models. They could easily blend with the older models so that’s good.
I'm in the same boat. Not liking this new beast snagga range at all. They look like they came straight from AOS. That boss is so cartoonish also.... to each their own I guess. I always thought Ork would go in Mad Max direction, rather than Flintstones...
What about the speed freeks & commandos? They look pretty mad maxy to me.
As always, resin sculpts will still be superior. Even if there’s a direct plastic alternative.
Kommandos are actually better looking then the previous ones.
I had quite some hopes for terrain, but it’s too orky :(
I don’t really want to start a Krieg army, but those models are lovely, so I’m wondering how easy to convert them to traitor guard? Hmmmm, decisions, decisions.
Of course, dependent on me getting a box first, stupid limited releases…
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
I do like the new ork boyz and associated models. They could easily blend with the older models so that’s good.
I'm in the same boat. Not liking this new beast snagga range at all. They look like they came straight from AOS. That boss is so cartoonish also.... to each their own I guess. I always thought Ork would go in Mad Max direction, rather than Flintstones...
What about the speed freeks & commandos? They look pretty mad maxy to me.
For my taste the Beastsnaggas are too madmaxy if anything, I'd like proper feral Orks more instead every single one of these having Bionics But I guess GW wants to draw a clear line to their AoS Orks so they gave the Snaggas an obvious 40K touch.
Samsonov wrote: Well, I have waited about 20 years for plastic Death Korps (after seeing the illustrations in the 3rd Guard codex I think)... If like modern 40k models then they are great but personally the chunkiness is a major let down for me. I mean, legs almost as thick as their heads and utterly massive weapons. Conveniently, I have another plan. Google "wargames atlantic german infantry death korps of krieg" and it comes up with convincing conversions for DKoK which are relatively cheap and quick to do.
Yeah, the chunky, cartoonish proportions are a real let down.
I understand people’s disappointment at the Krieg models bring “chunkier (for lack of a better term,” but I don’t know why people would expect anything different? FW Krieg are true 28 scale and as far as I know GW proper produces literally nothing that is true 28 (I don’t think FW does for that matter any more either). The new Krieg minis are designed to match in with the rest of the 40k range (and the proportions on them are absolutely exceptional when compared to the Cadians or Catachans infantry kits). I think they look really great for 28mm heroic infantry.
I mean would i prefer the 40k range and GW in general to sculpt more in line with true 28 scale? Probably, but they aren’t going to change their entire catalog.
Also of note are some of the KT faction names “Ecclesiarchy” and “Forge World” are pretty broad and specific respectively. I’m guessing they did that to make other factions similar to the Veteran Kriegsmen and Commandos in those factions ( Sisters and Ad Mech) in the future?
Blastum wrote: Well, I may get flamed for comments but whatever.
I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
I do like the new ork boyz and associated models. They could easily blend with the older models so that’s good.
I'm in the same boat. Not liking this new beast snagga range at all. They look like they came straight from AOS. That boss is so cartoonish also.... to each their own I guess. I always thought Ork would go in Mad Max direction, rather than Flintstones...
What about the speed freeks & commandos? They look pretty mad maxy to me.
Speed freeks are pretty cool Mad Maxy to me. If I played Orks, I'd make Speed Freeks army probably. Komandos are nice.
I understand people’s disappointment at the Krieg models bring “chunkier (for lack of a better term,” but I don’t know why people would expect anything different? FW Krieg are true 28 scale and as far as I know GW proper produces literally nothing that is true 28 (I don’t think FW does for that matter any more either). The new Krieg minis are designed to match in with the rest of the 40k range (and the proportions on them are absolutely exceptional when compared to the Cadians or Catachans infantry kits). I think they look really great for 28mm heroic infantry. I should also note if you have ever worked with DKoK or Elysians in FW resin, there is a good chance you had a bad experience (in part because of the true scale and in part because FW resin and casting is garbage).
I mean would i prefer the 40k range and GW in general to sculpt more in line with true 28 scale? Probably, but they aren’t going to change their entire catalog.
Also of note are some of the KT faction names “Ecclesiarchy” and “Forge World” are pretty broad and specific respectively. I’m guessing they did that to make other factions similar to the Veteran Kriegsmen and Commandos in those factions ( Sisters and Ad Mech) in the future?
Sabotage! wrote: I understand people’s disappointment at the Krieg models bring “chunkier (for lack of a better term,” but I don’t know why people would expect anything different? FW Krieg are true 28 scale and as far as I know GW proper produces literally nothing that is true 28 (I don’t think FW does for that matter any more either). The new Krieg minis are designed to match in with the rest of the 40k range (and the proportions on them are absolutely exceptional when compared to the Cadians or Catachans infantry kits). I think they look really great for 28mm heroic infantry.
I mean would i prefer the 40k range and GW in general to sculpt more in line with true 28 scale? Probably, but they aren’t going to change their entire catalog.
Also of note are some of the KT faction names “Ecclesiarchy” and “Forge World” are pretty broad and specific respectively. I’m guessing they did that to make other factions similar to the Veteran Kriegsmen and Commandos in those factions ( Sisters and Ad Mech) in the future?
After looking at a side by side, my main complaint is the ankles, they made the ankles super chunky for some reason.
The guns, hands and arms got a bit bigger, but really not massively so.
I'm glad they didn't make them bobbleheads.
The GW paint job which is less gritty than the FW style probably makes them look worse than they are, people are probably too accustomed to seeing FW's brilliantly painted DKOK rather than the cartoon GW style or your average mediocre gamer's attempts.
After looking at them side by side in the image I posted earlier on this page, I think once you have the model in hand they'll probably look okay proportion wise, certainly nowhere near as bad as the old IG plastics.
I'm mostly happy, depending on the price I'll buy a box and if they look good in the plastic then I think I may be restarting my IG army, this time purely Krieg (I do have a few FW Kriegs as well, but never enough to make an army).
Plastic Cadians/Catachans being as tall and chunky as a Vanilla Marine in full power armour is one of the reasons for the popularity of "true scale" Space Marines in the first place.
I want to see these guys next to a Phobos Marine or the new Necrons. Because the current pictures make them look like giants.
Still wouldn't help the oversized guns, but I hope the Krieg are thinner and shorter than Phobos.
A welcome preview after them banging on about AoS Dominion for the last few weeks. Ork and Imperial players seem happy enough and deserve some love being two of the most iconic factions in the game.
Bit confused regarding the core manual for kill team. Did they say its one book for the rules and another for the factions? Also disappointed that Ynnari are not in the line up of factions on the website.
Warzone Octarius is practically yelling at us that the Tyranid codex is on the way, and looking forward to it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I guess I'm in the minority for liking the Beastboss? Heck, he could probably waltz into an Ironjawz warband with very little need of conversion too.
My only worry is if he'll be big enough to adequately represent a boss.
I like him too. As to size, he is supposed to be warboss equivalent for Beast Snaggas so he should be big enough.
Goose LeChance wrote: I want to see these guys next to a Phobos Marine or the new Necrons. Because the current pictures make them look like giants.
They are on what I assume are 25mm bases, people are maybe getting used to seeing models on 32mm bases which makes these guys look too big.
But I think people will be surprised how small they are, given the comparison pic I posted earlier they're not much taller or bulkier than the FWDKOK, and the FWDKOK look much smaller than most of GW's range these days.
The one thing I would say is I kind of wish it wasn't the death korps. The models are extremely cool but I don't really like them in the lore. I would have much preferred Valhallans or Steel Legion as the ultimate anti Ork regiments.
Some veteran style Valhallans in the same vein would have been incredible.
Wow, yea this exceeded all expectations for me. I mean, Ork terrain?! I've already made some, and this will allow me to easily fill a full board which is awesome.
Kommandos look great, love all the little details, they are going to be a joy to paint. Krieg guardsmen are grimdark and nice, will also be fun to paint.
Let's just hope the new edition rules are fun - the current ones are a bit so-so IMO.
But props to the guys running the previews - it seems like they are getting better at it. Of course it also depends on them having interesting stuff to show, which in this case they had so - yea will definitely get this box, let's just hope the pricing is within reason. I mean it's a start box, right, you'd want it accessible if you want people to get into the game?
Oguhmek wrote: ...let's just hope the pricing is within reason. I mean it's a start box, right, you'd want it accessible if you want people to get into the game?
You must be new to GW
I'm half expecting it to cost a fortune and also be sold out within a few minutes of the preorders going up.
I'm trying to decide how much I'm willing to pay given what comes in the box so I can decide at the moment of release whether or not I want it.
Olthannon wrote: The one thing I would say is I kind of wish it wasn't the death korps. The models are extremely cool but I don't really like them in the lore. I would have much preferred Valhallans or Steel Legion as the ultimate anti Ork regiments.
Some veteran style Valhallans in the same vein would have been incredible.
I mean they're a head swap away from being Valhallans. And overall super similar to Steel Legion. You don't need to use the models as Krieg.
I've been musing what to do with these, I really like the models, but I want to personalise them somehow. But yeah, finally great looking plastic IG troopers! I'll be expanding my guard force for sure.
Sotahullu wrote: Okay, here you can see how frigging huge that chariot is:
This is the one bad model of the bunch, it looks like one of those action figure vehicles with awkwardly oversized seating positions to accomodate 6" figures while keeping the overall size managable for sale, and with the obligatory spring firing turrets
Agreed. They should have.done a squiggoth instead of that thing
I like kommandos but they're basically a gang for the skirmish game Kill team, not a proper 40k unit. Of course monopose.
Boyz are terrible: too dynamic and their faces look dumb, just like the snaggas. I do like the nobz sculpts except also them are monopose. I have more than 30 nobz already and they all look very different. Orks are not like power armour dudes, necrons, etc that can be duplicated and no one cares: each model, especially leading dudes like nobz, should look like a specific unique individual. That's one of the things that always contributed to make the orks line amazing.
Overall I can't stand that feral vibe that the new line of models have. Most of those upcoming models look like silly cartoons. And I won't definitely like the prices .
Oguhmek wrote: Hmm yea come to think of it, the contents of this box look like it's on the level of Necromunda Dark Uprising, and that was like £175/€230, right?
So maybe I shouldn't expect Shadow War: Armageddon levels of savings (because that was an amazing deal).
My guess is that it won't be as expensive as Necromunda-DU. That box is truly massive with I believe 16 full sprues of terrain plus a sprue of orange translucent plastic for the measuring tools. KT:O has six sprues of terrain, plus a half sprue of terrain and measurement tools. The Necromunda-DU armies are also 1.5 frame kits similar to KT:O
WarCry Catacombs ($210) also has six full sprues of terrain. The KT:O Ork/DKoK sprues are slightly larger than the WarCry armies, but they aren't too far off.
My hunch is that given they're touting it as a "Launch Box" it'll fit into this new $199 Indomitus/Dominion pricing scheme. That said, given that launch boxes usually have big rule books and offer a substantial discount, I wouldn't be shocked if this fell into the "Dual Box" $170/$185 price point. I could also see it at the Christmas Bundle/WC:C $210 point as well. That said, given the popularity of these two armies, Necromunda-DU isn't fully off the table. Anyway, just early morning rationalizations
Olthannon wrote: The one thing I would say is I kind of wish it wasn't the death korps. The models are extremely cool but I don't really like them in the lore. I would have much preferred Valhallans or Steel Legion as the ultimate anti Ork regiments.
Some veteran style Valhallans in the same vein would have been incredible.
I mean they're a head swap away from being Valhallans. And overall super similar to Steel Legion. You don't need to use the models as Krieg.
I've been using what to do with these, I really like the models, but I want to personalise them somehow. But yeah, finally great looking plastic IG troopers! I'll be expanding my guard force for sure.
That's an extremely good point! I'd forgotten they were multipart. I don't know I think it's just me I just don't like the krieg much.
Samsonov wrote: Well, I have waited about 20 years for plastic Death Korps (after seeing the illustrations in the 3rd Guard codex I think)... If like modern 40k models then they are great but personally the chunkiness is a major let down for me. I mean, legs almost as thick as their heads and utterly massive weapons. Conveniently, I have another plan. Google "wargames atlantic german infantry death korps of krieg" and it comes up with convincing conversions for DKoK which are relatively cheap and quick to do.
I love the Death Korps and I’m really hoping that they’re the first release in a full plastic Death Korps range. Imperial guard have been stuck with terrible minis for far too long.
I’m not interested in getting this box though. It’s far too Orky for my tastes. I think Orks are the only faction in 40K that I thoroughly dislike.
GW has done one off releases in the past like Rogue Trader. DKoK could be one of those. A one off or they could be the start of a general release. I hope its the latter
Some nice ork commandos there the bigger Squigs are inferior is every way in comparison with AoS Mangler Squigs... Its almost like its a rushed job with muscles and textures almost flat with no definition or interest... Big chariot is pants design wise.
Kriegs look like they had too many Big Macs on the spaceport.
Overall nice kits with some gems on the small kits. Big kits are disappointing.
Overread wrote: GW has done one off releases in the past like Rogue Trader. DKoK could be one of those. A one off or they could be the start of a general release. I hope its the latter
+1. With three SKUs you could change the profile of a popular and easily allied army. Considering the love untested factions like Lumineth Realm Lords have received it seems like a complete no-brainer of an investment.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I do prefer the shape of the old gas masks too. They look like hastily sewn together bits of leather, the new plastic ones look like they've been sculpted to look more skull shape.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually they're not terribly different in size when you scale them so the bases are the same...
OMG the inferior legs almost doubled... makes the overall look much thicker.
I expect GW to do only one Kill Team box for some guard regiments like they did for WarCry with chaos cultists.
But I imagine if they see Krieg's box selling like hot cakes, they'll follow the money.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I do prefer the shape of the old gas masks too. They look like hastily sewn together bits of leather, the new plastic ones look like they've been sculpted to look more skull shape.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually they're not terribly different in size when you scale them so the bases are the same...
OMG the inferior legs almost doubled... makes the overall look much thicker.
FW Krieg and Elysian were s ale to human proportions, thus skinnier limbs, smaller weapons, and more broken parts. The GW plastic is using the heroic human proportions, which are different.
I think those Plastik DKoK look better, the FW Legs are too thin. I'm average and have thicker Legs than them...
TheGuest wrote: I expect GW to do only one Kill Team box for some guard regiments like they did for WarCry with chaos cultists.
But I imagine if they see Krieg's box selling like hot cakes, they'll follow the money.
Adam Troke already announced during the Stream that they will expand that Range...
I think the proportions of the new Krieg look fine. More realistic scale tends to look better in close up photos, heroic scale looks better on tabletop. My only fear is that these are not 25mm bases, but 28,5mm bases and the models are giants like the Cursed City characters.
TheGuest wrote: I expect GW to do only one Kill Team box for some guard regiments like they did for WarCry with chaos cultists.
But I imagine if they see Krieg's box selling like hot cakes, they'll follow the money.
Looking at the sprue and all the options do we think it's safe to conclude the Krieg will be available on their own for IG?
Or might this be like that first wave of sisters and disappear forever?
TheGuest wrote: I expect GW to do only one Kill Team box for some guard regiments like they did for WarCry with chaos cultists.
But I imagine if they see Krieg's box selling like hot cakes, they'll follow the money.
Looking at the sprue and all the options do we think it's safe to conclude the Krieg will be available on their own for IG?
Or might this be like that first wave of sisters and disappear forever?
Nah they said everything in the box would also be sold separately.
TheGuest wrote: I expect GW to do only one Kill Team box for some guard regiments like they did for WarCry with chaos cultists.
But I imagine if they see Krieg's box selling like hot cakes, they'll follow the money.
Looking at the sprue and all the options do we think it's safe to conclude the Krieg will be available on their own for IG?
Or might this be like that first wave of sisters and disappear forever?
They’ve said that everything in the box will be available separately.
The infantry squad we have should cover everything else, right?
Grenadiers? One of the kneeling dudes has a grenadier style helmet, but grenadiers also have different guns and wear a bit of armour (chest plate, shin plates and more substantial shoulder pieces).
You also have crew for artillery pieces that are pretty iconic, maybe they'll go down that path.
I think the new Krieg overall look great, and i'm glad to see them in plastic, but at the same time they just don't seem as good as the originals. The small changes change the tone of them somewhat - the extra and more rounded shoulder pads makes them closer to cadians, and the shorter, less angular/sharp gasmask with a different lens shape feels somewhat less harsh and menacing. Both changes feel like a downgrade that makes them somewhat more generic.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I think the new Krieg overall look great, and i'm glad to see them in plastic, but at the same time they just don't seem as good as the originals. The small changes change the tone of them somewhat - the extra and more rounded shoulder pads makes them closer to cadians, and the shorter, less angular/sharp gasmask with a different lens shape feels somewhat less harsh and menacing. Both changes feel like a downgrade that makes them somewhat more generic.
The mask one annoys me most, I really like the mask of the FW ones and the mask on these guys just doesn't look as good. I don't know why they thought that was a good idea to change as the Krieg mask is so iconic and mart of what sets them apart vs 3rd party options or historic models. The shoulder pads don't really bother me as they're not bulky like the Cadian ones.
Another one I didn't notice at first but am now, the FW models the greatcoat drapes straight down over the legs, and some of the models fold them up and clip them out of the way exposing the model's knees, but the plastic ones the greatcoat kinda just weirdly pulls away and around the knees, I'm guessing because the sculptor couldn't figure out how to do folds with the limitations of plastic.
But there's a lot of little things, like the proportions of the FW ones were perfect but these dudes look to have cankles, the air tube has less creases and they're bigger making it look less detailed.
Actually I didn't think about that before, supposedly the air tube means the head position is fixed. Or maybe there's enough flex in the plastic to just bend it into another position?
But overall I think they look good, they were never going to be as good as the FW ones because the FW ones are nearly perfect and also make use of the high level of detail achievable in resin but not in plastic.
I think once I'm holding them in my hand they'll look even nicer due to the small size of them.
I like kommandos but they're basically a gang for the skirmish game Kill team, not a proper 40k unit. Of course monopose.
Except not, because GW said the Kommandos will be multipart, just like the Kriegers. And from what we've seen, the Krieger sprues seem absolutely backed with bits and options.
Crimson wrote: My only fear is that these are not 25mm bases, but 28,5mm bases and the models are giants like the Cursed City characters.
Yeah that worries me.
I hope not, the picture I posted previously assumed 25mm bases, but if they're 28.5 the new ones will look more chonky.
Are GW using 28.5mm bases elsewhere in the range?
Not sure if it is exactly 28.5mm, but the plastic Howling Banshees are supplied with bases larger than the previous 25mm. Current Finecast Aspect Warriors are still supplied with 25mm.
If the Kommandos are on 32mm bases, then the DKOK in the pictures are on 25mm by counting pixels, but I make no guarantees because the pictures are pretty small, lol.
I'm going to punch a hole in my wall if they are as tall as Primaris lol
Edit: Sorry but looking at the pictures more, I just can't get over the cartoonish proportions, FW ones are so much better. If only they weren't resin...
I have the same urge to start saving up money for plastic crack again, as I did when I saw Cursed City. Cursed city evaded me, I hope this doesn’t.
Kommandos stole the show, imho.
Krieg looks decent, not as good as FW, but… well it’s plastic, not resin.
Boys look good, not phenomenal. But I’ll bite.
I wonder what they’ll look like in person next to the old boys. Judging by the photos - not too bad.
Koptas - i guess I need 6 more koptas after all.
The rig thing is a piece of gak, maybe salvageable for conversions. Not sure what to do with a 4 legged shark though. Maaaybe my FB night goblin army can use it somehow… like a snotling pump wagon or something.
Ork tower - a pass, can do it myself out of plastic card, mdf and my bitz box.
Warboss on foot - too busy.
Squigasaurus… it’s either really cool or really stupid. I’m a green skin player through and through, who thinks squigs are the best thing in the entirety of warhammer so cool it is.
If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
Not sure if it’s already been spotted, but is that a new line of martyrs style scenery kit on one of the Octarius scenes in the article? The pic with Tempestus and Cadians v Orks.
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
point is that scalper prices are still cheaper than buying the kits later from GW
so dirt cheap is relative, it mostly means cheaper than buying the unit from GW and less work than buying the box and sell the rest on your own (if you get one)
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
I think the confirmation that the kits are being released separately later will curb the scalpers a bit - not entirely obviously, but a lot of their success comes from the 'unknown' factor of availability. Most of the price is probably going to come from the terrain and the rulebook, which apparently won't even include non-Krieg/Kommando rules.
look guys sorry if any of this has been said already, but I've just found this thread and have no intention of reading every comment over 27 pages so please indulge me, I'm a little excited as I'm sure you guys are.
god Am I buzzing for this krieg kit.
its gonna be a converters dream to get hold of. I may end up seing what the scalpers have it for if I cant wait for it!
put it this way, shant be buying the rest just for some kriegsmen! LOL
looking at the bolter on the krieg main sprue.
Its obviously for your sergeants.
however cant quite tell from the bit but it looks to be held either in one hand (up) or if there IS a supporting hand, its hard to see as its intercescted by the white writing on the book below.
anyway it doesnt look very feasable in its pose.
the way the new cadian one is stowed on the strap makes a LOT of sense. like thats how it would have to be fired too, the strap easing the manipulation of such a huge imposing weapon.
but this krieg one looks to be just held like any other lasgun. or worse, held up like the catachan one, which to me is a little absurd.
fine on a big musclebound whack-job, sure but not on dinky little kriegsmen...
shame...
ho hum, just use the cadian one and dick-about with the pads I suppose!
funny how it seems that much of the krieg lore seems to have been possibly glossed over for the sake of homoginisation of the potential upcoming imperial guard codex.
medics, odd thing to have in acult of sacrifice unit, no? instead of quartermasters? which, although shockingly grim at least made sense...
medals on a veteran? well, thats flat out against krieg lore.
zealot... urm, aren't they all already?
look, these, like the objections to the addition of the nose-bridge section on the mask are real nit-picks I know. its a great looking kit but you can't help but think that the designers are not up on the lore or have chosen, as I suggested earlier, to ignore it forthe sake of homoginisation of the astra-militarum line...
still there are some stand out bangin parts too, the mace? pure class, the 'over-the-top!' signal flares, awesome.
and so on and so on.
but, BUT the most interesting thing I can see is that the heads and hoses appear to be seperate, essentially allowing for customisation with headswaps for valhallan, steel legion or any other theme to extend the usefulness of the kit. either by gw or fw or even turn to third party kits like the anvil regiments range or madrobot's or vikky lambs stuff... seems the skys the limit with this kit...
unny how it seems that much of the krieg lore seems to have been possibly glossed over for the sake of homoginisation of the potential upcoming imperial guard codex.
medics, odd thing to have in acult of sacrifice unit, no? instead of quartermasters? which, although shockingly grim at least made sense...
medals on a veteran? well, thats flat out against krieg lore.
zealot... urm, aren't they all already?
look, these, like the objections to the addition of the nose-bridge section on the mask are real nit-picks I know. its a great looking kit but you can't help but think that the designers are not up on the lore or have chosen, as I suggested earlier, to ignore it forthe sake of homoginisation of the astra-militarum line...
still there are some stand out bangin parts too, the mace? pure class, the 'over-the-top!' signal flares, awesome.
and so on and so on.
but, BUT the most interesting thing I can see is that the heads and hoses appear to be seperate, essentially allowing for customisation with headswaps for valhallan, steel legion or any other theme to extend the usefulness of the kit. either by gw or fw or even turn to third party kits like the anvil regiments range or madrobot's or vikky lambs stuff... seems the skys the limit with this kit...
Krieg are still human, just extremely indoctrinated and fanatical compared to most other Guard regiments. On Vraks they still broke/retreated at times and some of their Commissars were fragged on such an occasion. The whole "throw themselves at the enemy trying to die for the Emperor while wielding trenching shovels" just became inflated by the memes/r/grimdank like so much 40k lore and, as often happens, people took it as gospel.
Quartermasters retain their function as medics, it's just their triage is very pragmatic/logical to the extreme. Plus this lot are being presented as an elite Kill-Team rather than as generic infantry - Krieg will sacrifice themselves if it furthers the mission objective, but their success is still the most important thing, not getting themselves killed for the sake of it. If a medic can get a man on his feet to keep fighting they'll do it, he's far more useful to the Emperor as another (las)gun on the line than a corpse.
'Zealot' is probably just the specific Kill-Team designation in the rules. He's just a lot more zealous than his zealous comrades.
yup, all true... I fondly remember when krieg were little more than this guy:
and this guy:
Spoiler:
-this image is huge it turns out!
and a few bits of acompanying text in white dwarf.
in fact the first lot of steel legion I did were done as dkok on the strength of that article!
needless to say, they were not painted well...
not terrible for 2001(ish?) though...LOL
all the rest of the lore and all that jazz is time and evolution of the basic idea.
still thats true of space marines too. remember (or go look on wiki for you young-uns) what they were in the days of rogue trader; little more than better than the guard they fought alongside, and now they're immense space knight-brothers with strict doctrine... the buck has to stop somewhere, though is what I'm getting at I suppose...
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
I think the confirmation that the kits are being released separately later will curb the scalpers a bit - not entirely obviously, but a lot of their success comes from the 'unknown' factor of availability.
I'm glad they're being upfront about both the limitedness and also the fact the kits will be available separately.
Most of the price is probably going to come from the terrain and the rulebook, which apparently won't even include non-Krieg/Kommando rules.
That's why I'm struggling to figure out at what price I'm willing to pay for this set, I'm not a massive terrain lover and especially Ork terrain is one of the easiest just to make from scrap plasticard.
So if the set weighs in at almost $500AUD like the Dark Uprising set, that's going to be a hard no from me.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I do prefer the shape of the old gas masks too. They look like hastily sewn together bits of leather, the new plastic ones look like they've been sculpted to look more skull shape.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually they're not terribly different in size when you scale them so the bases are the same...
OMG the inferior legs almost doubled... makes the overall look much thicker.
FW Krieg and Elysian were s ale to human proportions, thus skinnier limbs, smaller weapons, and more broken parts. The GW plastic is using the heroic human proportions, which are different.
No. Just no. GW is using human proportions. The Krieger has his pants put into boots, then wrappers on top. I have no idea why people whine GW one is tOo ThIcK, if anything, FW one looks like anorexic 15 year old girl when you imagine his legs under three layers of material. In fact FW barbie look is especially stupid because allied puttee bit it's based on was worn which short boots (so the wrap section is very thin pants tightly wound on thin 1900s civilian leg with cloth strap) while Kriegers wear full length boots and are athletic soldiers much like 2010s US marine is taller and stronger than 1910s one.
But even leaving all of the above aside, defending ankles thinner than wrists is just comical. FW ankles are too thin even for naked ones!
The Death Korps models look nice. That's the models, not the paintjob. Definite case of 'Eavy Metal style (and the specific color scheme) making the models look worse than they are. Nice to see so many options on the sprue as well.
The Kommandos are pretty cool. Maybe like the Krieg veterans too distinct for generic use, but that's OK when they're assembled as Kill Team specialists. The rest of the Orks don't do if for me. The Snagga look isn't what I'm interested in. The chariot is pretty bad. Maybe if it wasn't painted white...
That said, the named character squig shark has got all the right look about it.
I'm torn on Black Templars. On the one hand if they made a really good Primaris Emperor's Champion I wouldn't hesitate to buy the model. On the other hand, that's production capacity better spent on non-Marine stuff. But I guess we haven't had a Marine release in a while, so it's that time again.
AduroT wrote: The Orks in this are So much better and more Orky than the Kruleboyz. It makes me a bit sad.
I don't think you can even compare the two, Kruleboyz are a completely different design aesthetic than 40k orks. And that seems to be a deliberate choice. For every person lamenting that they don't look like typical orks/orruks, there's someone else who's happy that the Kruleboyz look grittier, meaner, and less cartoony than the standard Ironjaw.
osjclatchford wrote: yup, all true... I fondly remember when krieg were little more than this guy:
and this guy:
and a few bits of acompanying text in white dwarf.
in fact the first lot of steel legion I did were done as dkok on the strength of that article!
needless to say, they were not painted well...
not terrible for 2001(ish?) though...LOL
all the rest of the lore and all that jazz is time and evolution of the basic idea.
still thats true of space marines too. remember (or go look on wiki for you young-uns) what they were in the days of rogue trader; little more than better than the guard they fought alongside, and now they're immense space knight-brothers with strict doctrine... the buck has to stop somewhere, though is what I'm getting at I suppose...
Thanks for posting the biggest image file I have ever seen on the board and ruining the rest of this page of the thread...
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
I think the confirmation that the kits are being released separately later will curb the scalpers a bit - not entirely obviously, but a lot of their success comes from the 'unknown' factor of availability.
I'm glad they're being upfront about both the limitedness and also the fact the kits will be available separately.
Most of the price is probably going to come from the terrain and the rulebook, which apparently won't even include non-Krieg/Kommando rules.
That's why I'm struggling to figure out at what price I'm willing to pay for this set, I'm not a massive terrain lover and especially Ork terrain is one of the easiest just to make from scrap plasticard.
So if the set weighs in at almost $500AUD like the Dark Uprising set, that's going to be a hard no from me.
This isn't a Dark Uprising sized box so you won't have to worry about paying that much. It's in GW's $150 to $200 US range.
Geifer wrote: I'm torn on Black Templars. On the one hand if they made a really good Primaris Emperor's Champion I wouldn't hesitate to buy the model. On the other hand, that's production capacity better spent on non-Marine stuff. But I guess we haven't had a Marine release in a while, so it's that time again.
Codex Supplement Black Templars was inevitable. They are the only Marine Chapter running on a free index. Given the fact that all units in CSM are released, I doubt this release will be more than the supplement, a BT character, and a Primaris Upgrade Kit. So a quick one week release and then back to all the other 40K goodness they have been hinting at.
Thanks for posting the biggest image file I have ever seen on the board and ruining the rest of this page of the thread...
you're welcome man, thanks for being so sarcastic and smeggy about it, it never fails to make someone feel so good about a genuine mistake that was so easy to fix, you know, a polite, "hey latchford that image is a bit big, please put it in a spoiler" would have done.
anyway, its spoilered now so feel free to go and snark at someone else for a while... I've had my fill today...
well no. nothing concrete but I can say with all honesty that Im certain that this kit would let you build:
an infanty squad with any option for sgt, or special weapon.
or a command squad with most options covered (only minus the banner afaik) with spares.
or a killteam of varying type
so yeah. pretty versitle and (bsed on what the guys said in the vid) I'd expect any following kits for different factions and regiments to work in a similar fashion. allow support for kill team specific specialists as well as regular 40k...
though tbh i'd be surprised if we don't see more dkok (like grenadiers, heavy weapon squad and regimental hq sets)if this is as successfull as I expect it to be.
if they are to come out down the line you can bet your sweet bippy they've already been designed and or prototyped so someone "in the know" on the inside would know for sure already...
AduroT wrote: The Orks in this are So much better and more Orky than the Kruleboyz. It makes me a bit sad.
I know right! I was looking to see if some of these could be converted to AoS but just too much gear.
As others have said though, that’s just one opinion. Personally I hate the goofiness of GW’s usual Orks/Orruks and am totally in love with the kruleboyz. The last time GW made orcs I actually liked, they were metal, with a solid metal base!
Everything GW is putting out now has this weird cartoonish look, someone at GW has a large foot fetish. Even the new orcs have ridiculously oversized feet. I don't get it.
The tooling cost for plastic injection molding is high, about six figures, but the mold lasts almost forever, while energy and raw material costs are relatively low. So it does not make sense to pay that, and not earn back the sunk cost by continuing production, provided the product sells. So I'd expect DKoK will be sold separately, and even expanded.
However, the Rogue Trader box was "one and done", so it is possible GW will follow that route. But there is interest in DKoK, as evidenced by FW sales over the years, and kitbashing projects by those who do not want to pay FW prices. Not the same situation as the new and unsupported factions of the Rogue Trader box.
Anyway, I like the DKoK figures, and will wait for them to go on sale separately. Still, after seeing the prices on Warcry: Catacombs and Cursed City, I am not confident about the pricing for a DKoK squad.
As for the orks and the terrain: have hated the ork aesthetic since the original RT release, so that part of the starter is useless to me.
The tooling cost for plastic injection molding is high, about six figures,
And sharks never get cancer*... Would you like to buy a bridge?
These big limited number boxes recoup the whole cost of developing everything there. When GW releases all these things individually later the only cost will be the actually plastic, paper, shrink wrap and the biggest cost of all...shipping. Having said that there are lots of GW one and done boxes that probably cost more than 7 figures to develop.
* those Necromunda and Cadian upgrade sprues cost $100 000, no never.
Looking forward to picking up the Krieg models separately from the box set. The Orc terrain looks terrible and paper products including rulebook are recycling bin fodder.
The tooling cost for plastic injection molding is high, about six figures, but the mold lasts almost forever, while energy and raw material costs are relatively low.
All true... except the bolded part, that is. That is bonkers, patently untrue even when companies need to go to third parties for the tooling. Low-medium five figures, at most in that case, almost certainly much less when doing it in house as GW dones.
Also, you can do moulds with metals cheaper than steel. They still last a long time, but are even cheaper. Kinda ideal for limited stuff.
Tokhuah wrote: Looking forward to picking up the Krieg models separately from the box set. The Orc terrain looks terrible and paper products including rulebook are recycling bin fodder.
Sounds like a great way to throw money away. Why not at least try to sell the parts of the box you don't want? Shoot, send ME the rulebook, I'll take it if you don't want it. Ditto the ork terrain.
Tokhuah wrote: Looking forward to picking up the Krieg models separately from the box set. The Orc terrain looks terrible and paper products including rulebook are recycling bin fodder.
Sounds like a great way to throw money away. Why not at least try to sell the parts of the box you don't want? Shoot, send ME the rulebook, I'll take it if you don't want it. Ditto the ork terrain.
I think they were talking about not getting the box, but buying them separately without the stuff they don't like from GW or scalpers.
Yeah that "injection molding is expensive" stuff was maybe true 20 years ago. Today a 1 million Kickstarter can fund 50 unique tools and delivery of sprues to backers at like 2 bucks a piece. And even in 2008 GW had not one but two unique promo sprues they just threw in with WD one time and never used again.
Tokhuah wrote: Looking forward to picking up the Krieg models separately from the box set. The Orc terrain looks terrible and paper products including rulebook are recycling bin fodder.
Sounds like a great way to throw money away. Why not at least try to sell the parts of the box you don't want? Shoot, send ME the rulebook, I'll take it if you don't want it. Ditto the ork terrain.
I read it as a comment on the longevity of GW rulebooks.
Which reminds me: I have a 40K 9th edition rulebook and campaign book that are looking painfully like they won't get used before 10th edition comes along. I should probably sell them before they lose all value.
I reckon we will. Simply because if it as intended as Kill Team only, it’d be closer in style to a dedicated WarCry set.
I think we have been trending towards a big IG release for a while now. The limited edition models, the new cadian heads and now this. I imagine that they'll do Krieg and Catachans for sure, with maybe a Valhallan/Vostroyan combo box. They probably know which regiments were the popular ones.
Someone already stated a rumour on this thread that DKoK cavalry kit is coming. Wont need much more than that to get the wole army done, 2 or 3 more kits at most.
I'm pretty sure this will happen. Once the krieg KT kit is out individually, there's no way anyone would want to buy fugly-@$$ cadians or catachans anymore. New guard players will want a 100% DKoK army.
Blastum wrote: I ain’t feeling the whole BeastSnagga models. I dunno they just feel too…prehistoric and dare I say it, it’s the Flintstones. My 2 cents.
tauist wrote: Someone already stated a rumour on this thread that DKoK cavalry kit is coming. Wont need much more than that to get the wole army done, 2 or 3 more kits at most.
The "rumour" that was a reddit post that simply said "Death Rider in Plastic will come..." with absolutely no further details and with nothing to support that, from a person who has posted 2 more of these equally vague and unclear "rumours" over the past day? Or has there been something else I've missed?
An officer/commissar, engineers with shotguns, and cavalary should do it. I think they should put tank crew as extras on one of these sprues. Kind of like how the dark eldar wrack kit has bits for a venom pilot and raider gunners.
I like the box. I've collected Orks for a while now. The terrain is ok only because a fair amount came in the Speed Freak game and is also packaged with the Mek workshop. The DKOK will work for me. I have two squads of metal Steel Legion. I can use the DKOK troops with them. It should give me enough infantry for a Imperial Guard army that my son started when he was in college. Hopefully they will continue the DKOK line as I really hate the bland Cadians.
Arachnofiend wrote: People were saying that KT should just have different datasheets that gave models more wounds from the moment we saw the Injury rules. I, for one, am not going to miss that mechanic.
I enjoyed it personally, its a good stand-in for fog of war and friction. Players behave differently in the face of uncertainty, and not having a clearly prescient indicator of somethings remaining lifetime forces some truly radical changes.
Are there people out there, somewhere in the world, to whom calling something the "best ever!" version every single time you release a new version of something doesn't inspire... A sort of trained reflex of annoyance that they're spewing empty stock phrases on reflex?
Yes. Lots of people don’t get bent out of shape over toy soldier marketing language.
To be fair I think its become a bit of a joke judging by how Eddie Eccles said it on the stream.
The only thing I'll knock the model for is she is standing on a very big tactical rock shaped like a pillar. That's really thing that can get repetitive if you have more than one.
Sounds like the solution to all this multipart vs monopose stuff is to simply include some variant tactical rocks in the box. Genius!
Samsonov wrote: Well, I have waited about 20 years for plastic Death Korps (after seeing the illustrations in the 3rd Guard codex I think)... If like modern 40k models then they are great but personally the chunkiness is a major let down for me. I mean, legs almost as thick as their heads and utterly massive weapons. Conveniently, I have another plan. Google "wargames atlantic german infantry death korps of krieg" and it comes up with convincing conversions for DKoK which are relatively cheap and quick to do.
Hold on. You're complaining about chunky proportions, so your solution is to make this instead:
Spoiler:
Talk about chunkiness (let alone the fact that it doesn't look anything like a Kriegsman)
OMG the inferior legs almost doubled... makes the overall look much thicker.
FW Krieg and Elysian were s ale to human proportions, thus skinnier limbs, smaller weapons, and more broken parts. The GW plastic is using the heroic human proportions, which are different.
No. Just no. GW is using human proportions. The Krieger has his pants put into boots, then wrappers on top. I have no idea why people whine GW one is tOo ThIcK, if anything, FW one looks like anorexic 15 year old girl when you imagine his legs under three layers of material. In fact FW barbie look is especially stupid because allied puttee bit it's based on was worn which short boots (so the wrap section is very thin pants tightly wound on thin 1900s civilian leg with cloth strap) while Kriegers wear full length boots and are athletic soldiers much like 2010s US marine is taller and stronger than 1910s one.
But even leaving all of the above aside, defending ankles thinner than wrists is just comical. FW ankles are too thin even for naked ones!
If only there were a real world example we could reference...
Oh, hey, I've just the ticket:
Spoiler:
I think Forgeworlds look a bit more realistic than GWs do tbh, though I would say the appropriate proportions are somewhere in between them.
Can't say I do tbh. The poses aren't really any different than the current ork boyz kits. A couple of them have a bit more of a "run" to them, but I fail to see how that translates to "too dynamic"
chaos0xomega wrote: Can't say I do tbh. The poses aren't really any different than the current ork boyz kits. A couple of them have a bit more of a "run" to them, but I fail to see how that translates to "too dynamic"
If an ork boy is allowed to take one of their feet off the ground, they might start getting wild thoughts like moving faster than 5" base.
10 great looking dynamic Ork sculpts are great. It gets less great the more and more and more and more duplicates you have of said dynamic poses. They'll begin to stand out. You've got 2 units of 30 boyz, and 6 of each 'dynamic' model in there?
That's what's meant by 'too dynamic'. There's nothing wrong with dynamic miniatures. The problem comes from when there's many of them in too small a space.
I don't play guards but those DKoK are looking pretty sweet, doubly so seeing that the sprues are so customizable (feels like forever since GW released that kind of kit).
Now I would wish they'd release other Guards regiment as "kill team" just like this one, would be no different than Blood Bowl teams or Necromunda gangs. Mordians, Tallarns, Catachans, Valhallan, etc would be cool to see the gang back as option! Even if all they get is that single box of 10 guys with option for KT and command squads, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy about that!
Arbitrator wrote: If people want Kommandos alone you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap on Ebay from the amount of people buying the box just to get the Kriegers.
Not anymore. If it wasn't a one and done deal, like Indomitus, Cursed City, etc, you definitely could pick up a lot of the stuff for next to nothing. These days, people on Ebay charge scalper prices for even bland individual models. I wanted to pick up a lot of the Cursed City guys but even the tiny rat swarms are $20. I'm expecting to see every unit go for about $60 and individual models will probably be $20+ (and shipping)
I think the confirmation that the kits are being released separately later will curb the scalpers a bit - not entirely obviously, but a lot of their success comes from the 'unknown' factor of availability.
I'm glad they're being upfront about both the limitedness and also the fact the kits will be available separately.
Most of the price is probably going to come from the terrain and the rulebook, which apparently won't even include non-Krieg/Kommando rules.
That's why I'm struggling to figure out at what price I'm willing to pay for this set, I'm not a massive terrain lover and especially Ork terrain is one of the easiest just to make from scrap plasticard.
So if the set weighs in at almost $500AUD like the Dark Uprising set, that's going to be a hard no from me.
This isn't a Dark Uprising sized box so you won't have to worry about paying that much. It's in GW's $150 to $200 US range.
I dunno, that's looks like a lot of terrain. Looks like a lot more than came in the previous KT sets. Not as much as Dark Uprising, but it does also come with the thick card board rather than the mat that DU came with. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than $200USD, which might put it close to $400 AUD.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I dunno, that's looks like a lot of terrain. Looks like a lot more than came in the previous KT sets. Not as much as Dark Uprising, but it does also come with the thick card board rather than the mat that DU came with. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than $200USD, which might put it close to $400 AUD.
I don't think it's more than the original KT box. That one had a lot of terrain, and it was far more modular than this stuff is. This one appears to be two sprues duplicated, plus the rubble/junk sprue from the Mek Workshop box. [EDIT]: I completely forgot about the Orky Oil Derrick. That's another sprue as well. My bad.
And a decent discounter will knock off quite a bit. Let's imagine it's Dominion level (they're calling it a launch box, which is what Dominion and Indomitus were called*), so AUD$290. Means it shouldn't be hard to find for around the $220 mark.
*Of course this also has dice, which the lack of is something some people argued 'til they were blue in the face is what made them launch boxes rather than starter boxes.
Launch Box is the new GW term for "limited Edition Core Box" or "Starter Box with only 1 print run" so people don't get into panic mode prior pre-order because there won't be enough
(and I guess they come up with something new soon as most people now got the hint)
Something interesting that came up yesterday during conversations:
GW has chosen the only Regiment for their new plastic release no other company makes as those are either modeled after Steel Legion with the shorter coat and different masks, or made out of 2+ boxes/bits (like the WGA ones)
so could be that GW is replacing Cadians with Krieg as their default Regiment in the long term, which would also explain why there is just a sprue with more heads for those
no need to invest more than 1 sprue to sell off the leftover stock and come up with something new that not many have to avoid any complains that the new style/size would not fit the old models
Honestly I'm surprised they're doing Krieg at all when they could be doing something that's more visually distinct as '40k', like Vostroyans or one of the original IG sketch designs. I mean when they redesigned Stormtroopers they went out of their way to not only give them a patented GW Stupid Name™, but also completely change their aesthetic from 2nd Ed Special Forces/Early 3rd Ed Tacticool/Late 3rd Ed Tacticooler Kasrkin to ornate cuirass-wearing soldiers.
And if they were replacing Cadians, wouldn't they have already done that with Catachans?
kodos wrote: Launch Box is the new GW term for "limited Edition Core Box" or "Starter Box with only 1 print run" so people don't get into panic mode prior pre-order because there won't be enough
(and I guess they come up with something new soon as most people now got the hint)
Something interesting that came up yesterday during conversations:
GW has chosen the only Regiment for their new plastic release no other company makes as those are either modeled after Steel Legion with the shorter coat and different masks, or made out of 2+ boxes/bits (like the WGA ones)
so could be that GW is replacing Cadians with Krieg as their default Regiment in the long term, which would also explain why there is just a sprue with more heads for those
no need to invest more than 1 sprue to sell off the leftover stock and come up with something new that not many have to avoid any complains that the new style/size would not fit the old models
Uhm gw doesn't have huge storages. Yours sound lot like the myth about Christmasast deals being "what's in warehouse lying" when contents are cast for purpose, not ramsacked from existing boxes
Catachans and Cadians are the same age, so a lot of people have them and there are a lot of models around to mimic them
we have not seen a 1:1 replacement of plastics for a long time now
and Scions look much more like the Stormtroopers mixed with Kasrkin (which were supposed to be Cadian Veterans in plate armour) with bits to mimic a 2nd Edi look on some
doing Cadians or Catachans again with other proportions would be the same as doing Marines again with True Scale models, and there are reasons why GW has not replaced the old models but added the new ones as new faction
and they are doing the same here, old stuff with minor updates and the new shiny thing that looks much better
why Krieg instead of any other Regiment?
well, there is already a fanbase and background, as well as sculpts which makes it easier to do than anything from scratch only old players will recognize
and it fits the WW1/2 Meatgrinder Imperial Guard is supposed to be much more than the other more modern looking Regiments
(and going with Vostroyans, you would have a WGA kit available that makes them out of the box for a fraction of the price including heavy weapons)
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I dunno, that's looks like a lot of terrain. Looks like a lot more than came in the previous KT sets. Not as much as Dark Uprising, but it does also come with the thick card board rather than the mat that DU came with. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than $200USD, which might put it close to $400 AUD.
I don't think it's more than the original KT box. That one had a lot of terrain, and it was far more modular than this stuff is. This one appears to be two sprues duplicated, plus the rubble/junk sprue from the Mek Workshop box. [EDIT]: I completely forgot about the Orky Oil Derrick. That's another sprue as well. My bad.
And a decent discounter will knock off quite a bit. Let's imagine it's Dominion level (they're calling it a launch box, which is what Dominion and Indomitus were called*), so AUD$290. Means it shouldn't be hard to find for around the $220 mark.
*Of course this also has dice, which the lack of is something some people argued 'til they were blue in the face is what made them launch boxes rather than starter boxes.
I think I counted 6 full sized sprues and 1 small sprue of terrain, then a full "box" of Krieg and a full "box" of Kommandos.
tneva82 wrote: Uhm gw doesn't have huge storages. Yours sound lot like the myth about Christmasast deals being "what's in warehouse lying" when contents are cast for purpose, not ramsacked from existing boxes
I don't know what storage space has to do with that
it would be more about the need to make new moulds for old models to keep them in production without a re-design which is not worth it at all if the factions does not sell like hot cakes (which it won't because those are 20 year old models)
This currently makes sense.
I'm more than happy to add an additional Regiment to my traitor guard. Don't care if they match my current cadians, gives more of a rag-tag feel for me.
so could be that GW is replacing Cadians with Krieg as their default Regiment in the long term, which would also explain why there is just a sprue with more heads for those
no need to invest more than 1 sprue to sell off the leftover stock and come up with something new that not many have to avoid any complains that the new style/size would not fit the old models
I think the reason they went with Krieg for a guard revamp is because of the memes. Don't underestimate the power of memes in todays marketing space, it goes all the way to politics.
It makes sense that GW wants to be able to sell a box of Krieg to someone who sees memes about them.
Honestly I don't think its much more then that with a side helping of so many people who have asked about them. Plus all the people who collect IG and don't want resin have catachans/cadians so they can sell something new to those people.
I think it makes a ton of sense from a business standpoint. Personally I would have preferred catachan jungle fighter close combat specialists with all kinds of shotguns, mini guns and blasting charges. Or a plastic set of Kasrkin to expand Cadians. That would have been better for an existing IG player (not one myself btw) and would have fitted better with the concept of Kill team.
With that said, I think those Krieg and Kommandos look awesome and will deftinitely get a box. Reckon it would be hard to de-orkify that terrain? I'm thinking some plasticard to cover up the giant ork glyphs of skulls, clipping of the frankly ridiculous chrismas lights. What else?
In the end I think GW hit the same wall with Cadians as they did with regular Space Marines, the Cadian models are awful and outdated, but to replace them all would be a lot of work and may not get great sales anyway.
Better to start introducing a new regiment, and DKOK have proven to be popular but folks don't like FW resin or FW prices.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Krieg are also, as Imperial Guard go, visually distinctive. Certainly more so than Catachan and Cadian.
Krieg without traitors still feel to me like a boy without a choppa or dakka piece of equipment...
Still in regards to replacement of the Catachan and cadians Krieg certainly are a good pick..
What i do dread a bit, is the potential prices for 10 "guardsmen" afterall its unlikely that the pts will rise for them and they are bread and butter for one of the designated hordy factions... would be a shame if IG would be even less enticing to start with simply due to prices..
I don't know if this means anything or if I'm just finding a pattern in the numbers, but if you look at the kill team armies site, greenskins and kommandos are different, but greenskins have all the options shown in kommandos, but as their basic variants, instead of specialized.
No. Just no. GW is using human proportions. The Krieger has his pants put into boots, then wrappers on top. I have no idea why people whine GW one is tOo ThIcK, if anything, FW one looks like anorexic 15 year old girl when you imagine his legs under three layers of material. In fact FW barbie look is especially stupid because allied puttee bit it's based on was worn which short boots (so the wrap section is very thin pants tightly wound on thin 1900s civilian leg with cloth strap) while Kriegers wear full length boots and are athletic soldiers much like 2010s US marine is taller and stronger than 1910s one.
But even leaving all of the above aside, defending ankles thinner than wrists is just comical. FW ankles are too thin even for naked ones!
If only there were a real world example we could reference...
Oh, hey, I've just the ticket:
Spoiler:
I think Forgeworlds look a bit more realistic than GWs do tbh, though I would say the appropriate proportions are somewhere in between them.
Even if you assume that the DKOK are wearing full length boots which they've covered with puttees, I think the new plastic DKOK legs are too thick by a long way.
But the aesthetic I think they're going for is the typical WW1 shoulder with ankle high boots and puttees.
Of course they "look" thinner than the wrists, because the wrists are covered by the more loosely draped material of the greatcoat.
kodos wrote: Catachans and Cadians are the same age...
*squints* No they're not. Catachans came out when the Guard got their initial 3rd Ed release. Plastic Cadians came about much later when the Eye of Terror campaign was kicking off.
You're thinking of the Command Squads, which were released at the same time.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
I mean, it's a genuine complaint, it only became an argument when someone said the ankle size was correct and the old DKOK looked like anorexic 15 yo girls.
These are toy soldiers which people will waste hundreds of hours of their lives painting, the aesthetics are kind of important within the context
If you want to whinge about other peoples' complaints, well, this is a 29 page thread about a single preview, maybe you're on the wrong forum
kodos wrote: Catachans and Cadians are the same age...
*squints* No they're not. Catachans came out when the Guard got their initial 3rd Ed release. Plastic Cadians came about much later when the Eye of Terror campaign was kicking off.
You're thinking of the Command Squads, which were released at the same time.
IIRC Cats came out around 1999, then Cads around 2003. If felt like FOREVER at the time but now it's the difference between something that happened 18 years ago and something that happened 22 years ago. At this distance in time, basically they're the same age.
Guess I can take my Cats out to a bar now. My Cads will have to wait a few years.
And my Archadian Spiders, well they're old enough to have joined the military, done 2 tours, come back, married a stripper and gotten divorced.
The ankles are key to... umm... something! Surley!
Kid_Kyoto wrote: IIRC Cats came out around 1999, then Cads around 2003.
I remember how excited everyone was when the plastic Cadians came about. Was it because people liked them, or because they were just better than the execrable Catachan models?
The ankles are key to... umm... something! Surley!
Kid_Kyoto wrote: IIRC Cats came out around 1999, then Cads around 2003.
I remember how excited everyone was when the plastic Cadians came about. Was it because people liked them, or because they were just better than the execrable Catachan models?
The Catachans were pretty well hated even at the time. The metal Cats that came before them weren't actually bad, assuming you're into the Rambo aesthetic, and the plastics were a big downgrade.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
I mean, it's a genuine complaint, it only became an argument when someone said the ankle size was correct and the old DKOK looked like anorexic 15 yo girls.
These are toy soldiers which people will waste hundreds of hours of their lives painting, the aesthetics are kind of important within the context
If you want to whinge about other peoples' complaints, well, this is a 29 page thread about a single preview, maybe you're on the wrong forum
Yeah, I don't remember a time when there was no discussion about GW's heroic scale and people's preference of proportions. It's usually more about guns and shoulder pads than ankles, but the humongous guns have a ripple effect on everything else. The ankles are too thick because the feet are too big, and the feet are too big because the hands that hold the oversized weapons need to be too big. And so on.
It's just that in this case you have more realistically proportioned Forge World predecessor models that are direct equivalents (rather than third party models which you want to use with your GW models, or the other way around) which lend themselves to direct comparisons and make it all too easy to see the impact of GW's sculpting style. Add to that the way GW's heroic scale works at the models' actual size while being shown in blown up pictures that expose the exaggerated proportions in all their glory and it's no wonder that the Death Korps models lend themselves to... increased scrutiny.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
FW Kreig have thin ankles because they were female models, the plastics are male Kriegers.
If weapon sizes hadn't gone up in the transition to plastic, that would actually be a great way to reconcile having both old and new models in the same army.
The Catachans were pretty well hated even at the time. The metal Cats that came before them weren't actually bad, assuming you're into the Rambo aesthetic, and the plastics were a big downgrade.
To be honest, it was more a question of having a plastic kit instead of being forced to work with metal. Converting metal models was always a chore. So it was simply more convenient (and cheaper, too, at that time ).
Cat plastic proportions weren't especially loved, if I remember well, but it was a small compromise in the end.
Here, it will be totally different, 'cause I expect the price to be not cheap. But they will still be plastic.
Oh the joy of not working with FW resin...and if they're a bit thicker, it's good too. I'm tired of ankles broking because they're too thin. Did build 80 new skeletons from Soulblight Gravelord, and I can tell how annoying it is when the leg bones break.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: IIRC Cats came out around 1999, then Cads around 2003.
I remember how excited everyone was when the plastic Cadians came about. Was it because people liked them, or because they were just better than the execrable Catachan models?
I remember plastic Cadians got criticized for their helmets and shovel faces from the moment people saw pictures of them. So yeah, better isn't good and I'd go so far as to say that there was no tangible progress in sculpting Guardsmen between the Catachan and Cadian infantry kit that would have been comparable to the improvements to Marine sculpts that happened around the same time, like the 2nd ed Marine hands (that still made it on the Khorne Berzerkers) that transitioned to 3rd ed style, better sculpted hands, or plastic Marines now having necks.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
I mean, it's a genuine complaint, it only became an argument when someone said the ankle size was correct and the old DKOK looked like anorexic 15 yo girls.
These are toy soldiers which people will waste hundreds of hours of their lives painting, the aesthetics are kind of important within the context
If you want to whinge about other peoples' complaints, well, this is a 29 page thread about a single preview, maybe you're on the wrong forum
Yeah, I don't remember a time when there was no discussion about GW's heroic scale and people's preference of proportions. It's usually more about guns and shoulder pads than ankles, but the humongous guns have a ripple effect on everything else. The ankles are too thick because the feet are too big, and the feet are too big because the hands that hold the oversized weapons need to be too big. And so on.
It's just that in this case you have more realistically proportioned Forge World predecessor models that are direct equivalents (rather than third party models which you want to use with your GW models, or the other way around) which lend themselves to direct comparisons and make it all too easy to see the impact of GW's sculpting style. Add to that the way GW's heroic scale works at the models' actual size while being shown in blown up pictures that expose the exaggerated proportions in all their glory and it's no wonder that the Death Korps models lend themselves to... increased scrutiny.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
FW Kreig have thin ankles because they were female models, the plastics are male Kriegers.
If weapon sizes hadn't gone up in the transition to plastic, that would actually be a great way to reconcile having both old and new models in the same army.
I'm actually kind of impressed they didn't go crazy with the weapons. Yes, they grew a bit, but they don't look anywhere near as large as the Cadian's lasguns which look like they could be wielding 50 cal M2 Brownings By GW standards the Krieg weapons are quite reserved.
I'm not sure what it is (ankles or otherwise) but *something* is pushing my uncanny valley on the Krieg models. I just feel there's something slightly off with the dimensions on some of the models, but I can't put my finger on it.
Then again I think this often happens when "human" scale minis are blown up for glossy, see all our microscopic detail, pictures. I suspect this to be dramatically diluted when seeing them actual sized.
With that said, I'd hope for a general plastic release so you can make an army of them in a year or so. As people have said its not all that many kits.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: IIRC Cats came out around 1999, then Cads around 2003.
I remember how excited everyone was when the plastic Cadians came about. Was it because people liked them, or because they were just better than the execrable Catachan models?
I remember plastic Cadians got criticized for their helmets and shovel faces from the moment people saw pictures of them. So yeah, better isn't good and I'd go so far as to say that there was no tangible progress in sculpting Guardsmen between the Catachan and Cadian infantry kit that would have been comparable to the improvements to Marine sculpts that happened around the same time, like the 2nd ed Marine hands (that still made it on the Khorne Berzerkers) that transitioned to 3rd ed style, better sculpted hands, or plastic Marines now having necks.
I remember a lot of dislike for the Cads when they came out. The redesign (a lot of folks wanted a direct port of the metals), the helmets, the mini Space Marine shoulders, the left hand being molded to the gun rather than the arm, the lack of plasma and meltas...
Still they were an improvement on the Cats, since the Cads had a sci fi look and could look at home in any environment. I remember one battle report with Catachans defending an arctic station, I like to imagine they all died of exposure a few minutes after the battle.
Cats were pretty much hated from the get go. Huge muscle men who rarely bothered to wear armor and when they did never closed the jacket, the derpy running legs, the 80s bandanas, they would have been bad if they'd come out when Rambo was still a thing, but in 1999 the Whole Army of Rambo was just a terrible idea. Their only saving grace is they were cheap. ~$20 for 20 guys. And once they lost that...
So Cats were hated, (I used to them to make zombie IG, and more recently penal legion) but Cads were tolerated.
I think the new Male Krieg are still too much Historicals with Lasers, I would have liked something more like Vostroyans or Arcadian Spiders, but they do look good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: Plastic Catachan box has a Leslie Nielsen head, so it's got that going for it which is nice.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
I mean, it's a genuine complaint, it only became an argument when someone said the ankle size was correct and the old DKOK looked like anorexic 15 yo girls.
These are toy soldiers which people will waste hundreds of hours of their lives painting, the aesthetics are kind of important within the context
If you want to whinge about other peoples' complaints, well, this is a 29 page thread about a single preview, maybe you're on the wrong forum
Yeah, I don't remember a time when there was no discussion about GW's heroic scale and people's preference of proportions. It's usually more about guns and shoulder pads than ankles, but the humongous guns have a ripple effect on everything else. The ankles are too thick because the feet are too big, and the feet are too big because the hands that hold the oversized weapons need to be too big. And so on.
It's just that in this case you have more realistically proportioned Forge World predecessor models that are direct equivalents (rather than third party models which you want to use with your GW models, or the other way around) which lend themselves to direct comparisons and make it all too easy to see the impact of GW's sculpting style. Add to that the way GW's heroic scale works at the models' actual size while being shown in blown up pictures that expose the exaggerated proportions in all their glory and it's no wonder that the Death Korps models lend themselves to... increased scrutiny.
Sweet Changer, some people will complain about anything.
FW Kreig have thin ankles because they were female models, the plastics are male Kriegers.
If weapon sizes hadn't gone up in the transition to plastic, that would actually be a great way to reconcile having both old and new models in the same army.
I'm actually kind of impressed they didn't go crazy with the weapons. Yes, they grew a bit, but they don't look anywhere near as large as the Cadian's lasguns which look like they could be wielding 50 cal M2 Brownings By GW standards the Krieg weapons are quite reserved.
I'm frankly not at all surprised. GW did an amazing job on plastic Sisters and I can believe they learned something from the experience. It probably did the sculptors some good to work on a range of female models. They started making more delicate sculpts before that, and I'd say that's also down to sculpting female models. With male models GW has been doing the super buff dudes routine forever and with those models the exaggerated weapon sizes weren't so out of place. Sculpting something to look visibly feminine required a readjustment of gear size as well, and I think that's had an overall effect on how GW proportioned things ever since.
So see? We were right. The world is a better place for having plastic Sisters.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I remember a lot of dislike for the Cads when they came out. The redesign (a lot of folks wanted a direct port of the metals)...
Yeah, I was one of those people. I never updated my Cadians to plastic in spite of my intense dislike for metal models. Cadians and Sisters were the only models to see use long after the point when I fully embraced GW's new plastic paradise and avoided metal models at any cost.
New Krieg kit, which is a popular and instantly recognizable/relatable World War aesthetic, in plastic which has been wanted for some time.
Newly updated Cadian kit - For all of those who love this aesthetic and already have armies centered around them.
Bonus - people who want to sprinkle in one or the other in their army as a way of representing veterans or whatever.
GW makes the most money this way, aka their goal as a business, and makes a lot of fans happy in the process. I'm not a fanboy but I think they have done an excellent job with this KT box.
The new Krieg minis look great but I wish they included an alternative set of helmets with open faces. I like the Krieg look but part of the appeal of guard is that they are just regular humans thrust into a universe full of madness. The helmets hide that.
Chikout wrote: The new Krieg minis look great but I wish they included an alternative set of helmets with open faces. I like the Krieg look but part of the appeal of guard is that they are just regular humans thrust into a universe full of madness. The helmets hide that.
Chikout wrote: The new Krieg minis look great but I wish they included an alternative set of helmets with open faces. I like the Krieg look but part of the appeal of guard is that they are just regular humans thrust into a universe full of madness. The helmets hide that.
That's just like your opinion man. I see IoM as a seriously deranged facist society and the faceless nature of the infantry suits such a vision much better. I don't want to see their faces, I just want to blow them off the table!
Chikout wrote: The new Krieg minis look great but I wish they included an alternative set of helmets with open faces. I like the Krieg look but part of the appeal of guard is that they are just regular humans thrust into a universe full of madness. The helmets hide that.
It wouldn't be Kriegers without their gas masks
I'm not saying don't do Krieg. I'm saying do a second set of heads in addition like the recent cadian sprue.
One of they joys of the imperial guard is the vast number of regiments. It would be a great opportunity to add more than one regiment to the range.
Chikout wrote: The new Krieg minis look great but I wish they included an alternative set of helmets with open faces. I like the Krieg look but part of the appeal of guard is that they are just regular humans thrust into a universe full of madness. The helmets hide that.
It wouldn't be Kriegers without their gas masks
I'm not saying don't do Krieg. I'm saying do a second set of heads in addition like the recent cadian sprue.
One of they joys of the imperial guard is the vast number of regiments. It would be a great opportunity to add more than one regiment to the range.
Most regiments differ in more than just a head.
And Krieg with faces - just ain’t Krieg, I’m afraid, so there was no point in adding alternative heads with faces to the sprue.
I'm concerned about reports that the bases are 3.5mm wider than was previously standard for Imperial Guard models. Why do they do this?
I hope it's not indicative of a scale creep on the models as a whole.
I have two squads of Steel Legion metals, a squad of Catachan metals and a squad of Cadian metals. Would be fun to add these to them if they are in the right scale. OTOH I might just get more Steel Legion.
Da Boss wrote: I'm concerned about reports that the bases are 3.5mm wider than was previously standard for Imperial Guard models. Why do they do this?
I hope it's not indicative of a scale creep on the models as a whole.
I have two squads of Steel Legion metals, a squad of Catachan metals and a squad of Cadian metals. Would be fun to add these to them if they are in the right scale. OTOH I might just get more Steel Legion.
It's another way of them trying to get you to stop using your old army and buy the new stuff.
Rihgu wrote: So if you want to make Krieg models... don't use the bare heads? I don't understand.
I fail to see the point of providing krieg miniatures with non-krieg heads. That's like providing ogryns with ork heads.
And some people think there's no point in providing krieg miniatures with medals and medics. Some people even think the heads provided aren't Krieg, because they changed the gasmask! Some people see no point in Space Marine kits having un-helmeted options, etc. Those Krieg minis could just as easily be Kryyg, or Krag, or Kriegia, or Armageddon Iron Phalanx, so if you're making Krieg models just don't use the non-Krieg heads.
Da Boss wrote: I'm concerned about reports that the bases are 3.5mm wider than was previously standard for Imperial Guard models. Why do they do this?
I hope it's not indicative of a scale creep on the models as a whole.
I have two squads of Steel Legion metals, a squad of Catachan metals and a squad of Cadian metals. Would be fun to add these to them if they are in the right scale. OTOH I might just get more Steel Legion.
If thats the case then these will probably a lot bigger and already chunkier than previous humans.
While cursed city and such have huge vampires well they have the vampire excuse for scale but plain humans is going to be harder to mix and match with your current minis.
Da Boss wrote: I'm concerned about reports that the bases are 3.5mm wider than was previously standard for Imperial Guard models. Why do they do this?
I hope it's not indicative of a scale creep on the models as a whole.
I have two squads of Steel Legion metals, a squad of Catachan metals and a squad of Cadian metals. Would be fun to add these to them if they are in the right scale. OTOH I might just get more Steel Legion.
In a word: money.
Everything they do aim's at moving money from your wallet to theirs. Your old models, game balance etc are all irrelevant. Making you buy new models is everything.
That sprue is packed to the brim, adding an extra 10-12 heads is going to remove some of the other options. You'd also have to change to models to accommodate for making gas masks optional.
Rihgu wrote: So if you want to make Krieg models... don't use the bare heads? I don't understand.
I fail to see the point of providing krieg miniatures with non-krieg heads. That's like providing ogryns with ork heads.
He's after a two-for-one box of different regiments that only requires alternate heads. Steel Legion or Chem Dogs would work (though I doubt he, specifically, would want Chem Dogs) without needing much more than that.
As for the bases, if they do migrate wholesale to 28.5s, I imagine it's to finish off the constant issues they have with using inches as the default measurement and having the old bases be .4mm smaller than that. With slightly larger bases, you don't have things fighting in two ranks (well, unless you offset them slightly, but let's not confuse GW) and you get a little more room for dramatic poses.
I really don't see anything stopping anyone from using 3rd party or alternative heads on those Kriegsmen unless the neck socket is too small(won't know until I get the box).
Jidmah wrote: That sprue is packed to the brim, adding an extra 10-12 heads is going to remove some of the other options. You'd also have to change to models to accommodate for making gas masks optional.
Or, they could create new sprues for other not-Krieg specific units that still use the greatcoat bodies.
Which, going by the fact that the respirators seem to be separate from the body, appears to be what they want to do.
Rihgu wrote: So if you want to make Krieg models... don't use the bare heads? I don't understand.
I fail to see the point of providing krieg miniatures with non-krieg heads. That's like providing ogryns with ork heads.
He's after a two-for-one box of different regiments that only requires alternate heads. Steel Legion or Chem Dogs would work (though I doubt he, specifically, would want Chem Dogs) without needing much more than that.
While I do understand this sort of request, I think it simplifies the regiments far too much and ignores the nuances that makes them distinct. Yes, something like Krieg and Steel legion are both gasmasked guard with long coats, but there's more of a difference to them that couldn't be done with just a headswap and such. They're only similar in that basic idea - they have entirely different boots, coats, lasguns, helmets, masks, gloves etc to the point it it would either require a completely different kit/substantial replacement parts, or a vast modification of the look of the alternate regiment overall to something it's not and instead just making them Krieg-but-not-quite. There are more differences than there are similarities.
Jidmah wrote: That sprue is packed to the brim, adding an extra 10-12 heads is going to remove some of the other options. You'd also have to change to models to accommodate for making gas masks optional.
Or, they could create new sprues for other not-Krieg specific units that still use the greatcoat bodies.
Which, going by the fact that the respirators seem to be separate from the body, appears to be what they want to do.
I actually agree with Jidmah here, I think the "but it doesn't hurt you so lets just have it for the people who want it" argument doesn't go too far when you realise everything GW make means a compromise with something else that could be in the box.
Take the new Cadian head sprue, sweet! People who want head options on their Cadians get them, people who don't want head options don't have to use them... except EVERYONE pays for it, so now a 10 man Cadian squad is just absurdly expensive for what it is.
Otherwise GW sells the sprue separately, which means people who don't want bare Krieg heads don't have to buy them, but then the cost of buying a regiment of non-DKOK becomes even more expensive.
On the one hand options are great, on the other hand lets just let GW get DKOK right for now, then hopefully they'll release another regiment later.
It'd be great to go back to something like the pre-plastic days when GW had many regiment options, given plastic production has gotten cheaper I think it's actually viable to have 3 sprues per regiment giving you a command, a heavy weapons team and a unit of regular guardsmen.
Imagine wasting any of that precious sprue space on alternate heads. Look at that picture, it's glorious. Props to GW for once.
One of the added benefits for pushing Krieg besides the obvious fact that they're insanely popular and cool, is that GW can avoid the whole "representation" controversy and blow back from twitter mobs. It's Genius. GW is gonna make so much $$$.
Mentlegen324 wrote: While I do understand this sort of request, I think it simplifies the regiments far too much and ignores the nuances that makes them distinct. Yes, something like Krieg and Steel legion are both gasmasked guard with long coats, but there's more of a difference to them that couldn't be done with just a headswap and such. They're only similar in that basic idea - they have entirely different boots, coats, lasguns, helmets, masks, gloves etc to the point it it would either require a completely different kit/substantial replacement parts, or a vast modification of the look of the alternate regiment overall to something it's not and instead just making them Krieg-but-not-quite. There are more differences than there are similarities.
So what you're saying is that it's better that the billions of different guard regiments continue being represented by 2, now going on 3, fixed uniforms than there being any racial impurity in the uniform of any one of them
Jidmah wrote: That sprue is packed to the brim, adding an extra 10-12 heads is going to remove some of the other options. You'd also have to change to models to accommodate for making gas masks optional.
Or, they could create new sprues for other not-Krieg specific units that still use the greatcoat bodies.
Which, going by the fact that the respirators seem to be separate from the body, appears to be what they want to do.
I actually agree with Jidmah here, I think the "but it doesn't hurt you so lets just have it for the people who want it" argument doesn't go too far when you realise everything GW make means a compromise with something else that could be in the box.
Take the new Cadian head sprue, sweet! People who want head options on their Cadians get them, people who don't want head options don't have to use them... except EVERYONE pays for it, so now a 10 man Cadian squad is just absurdly expensive for what it is.
Otherwise GW sells the sprue separately, which means people who don't want bare Krieg heads don't have to buy them, but then the cost of buying a regiment of non-DKOK becomes even more expensive.
On the one hand options are great, on the other hand lets just let GW get DKOK right for now, then hopefully they'll release another regiment later.
It'd be great to go back to something like the pre-plastic days when GW had many regiment options, given plastic production has gotten cheaper I think it's actually viable to have 3 sprues per regiment giving you a command, a heavy weapons team and a unit of regular guardsmen.
Rihgu wrote: So if you want to make Krieg models... don't use the bare heads? I don't understand.
I fail to see the point of providing krieg miniatures with non-krieg heads. That's like providing ogryns with ork heads.
He's after a two-for-one box of different regiments that only requires alternate heads. Steel Legion or Chem Dogs would work (though I doubt he, specifically, would want Chem Dogs) without needing much more than that.
While I do understand this sort of request, I think it simplifies the regiments far too much and ignores the nuances that makes them distinct. Yes, something like Krieg and Steel legion are both gasmasked guard with long coats, but there's more of a difference to them that couldn't be done with just a headswap and such. They're only similar in that basic idea - they have entirely different boots, coats, lasguns, helmets, masks, gloves etc.
That's all true but having waited a very long time for new regiment in plastic, do you think there's even the slightest chance we'll get another plastic regiment with slightly different gear? Also I specifically asked for a set of heads without masks which would change the atmosphere quite a bit.
My dream release would be 12 kits. 4 different regiments each with a regular squad, a command squad and a heavy weapons team all with interchangeable bits but I don't hold out much hope for that.
I actually agree with Jidmah here, I think the "but it doesn't hurt you so lets just have it for the people who want it" argument doesn't go too far when you realise everything GW make means a compromise with something else that could be in the box.
If we're going with that argument, then I'd rather there be no regiment boxes at all, and just one single "Militarum Infantry" kit.
After all, every time they release something like DKOK, Catachan, Cadians, Vostroyan, etc, there is a compromise with something else GW could produce.
Why make so many unique Militarum regiments to eat away at potential things like Plastic Aspect Warriors, Tyranid horde infantry that don't have split heads, etc?
Rihgu wrote: If we're going with that argument, then I'd rather there be no regiment boxes at all, and just one single "Militarum Infantry" kit.
That's basically what Cadians were, the most generic looking Guardsmen.
After all, every time they release something like DKOK, Catachan, Cadians, Vostroyan, etc, there is a compromise with something else GW could produce.
Why make so many unique Militarum regiments to eat away at potential things like Plastic Aspect Warriors, Tyranid horde infantry that don't have split heads, etc?
I was obviously talking about in the one box, or as an expansion to it. Obviously the range as a whole needs diversity, that just goes without saying.
But as much as I'd love Valhallans and Steel Legion, I don't want Valhallans and Steel Legion to be head swapped DKOK, I want my DKOK to be good DKOK and my Valhallans to be good Valhallans... all while not being absurdly expensive due to having to buy a bunch of extra bits you aren't even going to use.
The DKOK kit already has tons of bits and I'm not expecting it to be cheap when it releases separately, the last thing I'd want is to either lose some of those DKOK bits or have it cost $10 more because it has an extra sprue of heads.
Jidmah wrote: That sprue is packed to the brim, adding an extra 10-12 heads is going to remove some of the other options. You'd also have to change to models to accommodate for making gas masks optional.
Or, they could create new sprues for other not-Krieg specific units that still use the greatcoat bodies.
Which, going by the fact that the respirators seem to be separate from the body, appears to be what they want to do.
I actually agree with Jidmah here, I think the "but it doesn't hurt you so lets just have it for the people who want it" argument doesn't go too far when you realise everything GW make means a compromise with something else that could be in the box.
Take the new Cadian head sprue, sweet! People who want head options on their Cadians get them, people who don't want head options don't have to use them... except EVERYONE pays for it, so now a 10 man Cadian squad is just absurdly expensive for what it is.
Otherwise GW sells the sprue separately, which means people who don't want bare Krieg heads don't have to buy them, but then the cost of buying a regiment of non-DKOK becomes even more expensive.
On the one hand options are great, on the other hand lets just let GW get DKOK right for now, then hopefully they'll release another regiment later.
It'd be great to go back to something like the pre-plastic days when GW had many regiment options, given plastic production has gotten cheaper I think it's actually viable to have 3 sprues per regiment giving you a command, a heavy weapons team and a unit of regular guardsmen.
Er, I meant afterwards, not right in the initial box ^^
