I’m tired of gryphhounds. How many do we have now? They come with characters, they come as a unit, they accompany that big archer model, etc. The new one is at least unique but still
I think GW are trying to push their representation of fur in plastics. I know early hounds and Skaven were very much "here's 1 tuft of fur the rest you have to paint on" which was in stark contrast to earlier models in metal/finecast which would have lots of fur modelled on them.
I think the shaggy fur helps them give the fur edges and definition without having it military style fur which can sometimes look a bit fake with plastics where you don't have lots of individual strands highlighted out in the material like you can with metal/resins.
Not a fan of the Gryph-hound. I feel like the head is too small (it might be the photo angle) and for me, Gryph-hounds are played out. Gimme a baby Dracoth or something.
See I want baby dragons for Soulblight - we have 1 so far on a limited edition model. Soulblight need more baby dragons -- before they become huge undead dragons!
Overread wrote: They were also supposed to come with Maliketh
Malerion*
I'd assume whatever's going to be happening is intended to be a parallel thing. The Ordo Serpentis has ties to Malerion's forces, as did the Shadowblades.
But yeah its honestly surprising that we are approaching AoS 4.0 and a whole realm - Shadow Realm - still has its main faction missing entirely from the game and most of the lore barring a few tiny snippets here and there.
I love me some squawk-puppies! So much so that years ago I forever enshrined a quote about them in my sig. The big Gryph-chargers are cool too; I just hope the Palladors and Lord-Aquilor get some actually decent rules in 4th. And I'm still salty that my Lord Arcanum on GC is going to legends as I love the model and now don't have much reason to paint it. Single tear.
comparing it to the "old" Grey Seer, it's basically spot on... but that does raise the point that the existing Grey Seer isn't actually that old (okay well it's a decade old but we're speaking relatively) so i wouldn't have assumed it to be one of the priority models for a refresh
GW seems to want a pretty strong character presence in their launch boxes. Marines this edition had a Captain, Librarian, Lieutenant and Apothecary. Necrons last edition had an Overlord, Destroyer Lord, Cryptek and whatever the new lieutenant equivalent is called.
At a guess Skaven are going to get a similarly large spread of roles. War leader rat, political leader rat, mechanic at the very least. Maybe ninja rat, too.
Sword is quite reminiscent of the 5th(?) ed Grey Seer's, while pose and curly swirly bits of robe remind of a (mirrored) Thanquol (the one before the End Times version). I wonder if they'd just have a new special character Grey Seer on foot, or have something a bit more fanciful to make him stand out more. I guess a big scenic base is always an option anyway.
Matrindur wrote: The Skaven side feels kinds small compared to SC. Would have thought we get at least one more unit
I like how the couch people enthused about how there were billions of them. But that game/narrative dissonance strikes again.
I'm glad I'm doing something else while this is running in the background. This is an amazingly dull format for driving interest or for providing information.
I also realized I have no idea who any of these guys are. I used to know faces and names for the studio, what they liked and what their focus, preferred factions and expertise was. These are just random guys running the show now.
The value of the contents of each prize is GBP £160 (one hundred and sixty) / AUD $450(four hundred and fifty) Australian Dollars/ USD $265 (two hundred and sixty five US dollars/ EU €210 (two hundred and ten) Euros. The total value of the prizes is GBP £1600 (one thousand six hundred / AUD $4500 (four thousand five hundred) Australian Dollars/ USD $2650 (two thousand six hundred and fifty) US Dollars/ EU €2100 (two thousand one hundred) Euros.
Matrindur wrote: The Skaven side feels kinds small compared to SC. Would have thought we get at least one more unit
50 skaven? Don't think they're doing too badly.
Number ≠ variety
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DaveC wrote: There's the price in the T&Cs of the giveaway
The value of the contents of each prize is GBP £160 (one hundred and sixty) / AUD $450(four hundred and fifty) Australian Dollars/ USD $265 (two hundred and sixty five US dollars/ EU €210 (two hundred and ten) Euros. The total value of the prizes is GBP £1600 (one thousand six hundred / AUD $4500 (four thousand five hundred) Australian Dollars/ USD $2650 (two thousand six hundred and fifty) US Dollars/ EU €2100 (two thousand one hundred) Euros.
I quite like that the new direction for the Ruination Chamber Gryph-beasts is the more shaggy Irish Wolfhound with more corvid avian aspects. It's the right kind of on the nose to hammer home the dour and fatal nature of their masters
Wonderful models, I could honestly see me buying at least two if not three sets, price dependent. I love all the models in there.
The Skaven models are superb (for both old world & AoS) and I can't wait to chop those stormcast up for my Slaanesh warriors project.
I'm just hoping the spearhead stuff isn't being included just as an excuse to bump the cost up to some insane price though. (Its of no interest to me- I'm still playing 1st Edition and will not be touching 4th at all outside of buying new models)
No sign of the leaked white cover core book though- was that replaced? Or is this the the FOMO set and the white book going to be part of the regular starter set at a later date?
Mallo wrote: No sign of the leaked white cover core book though- was that replaced? Or is this the the FOMO set and the white book going to be part of the regular starter set at a later date?
This is the FOMO launch set with a unique variant of the cover, the leaked photos likely showed the standard edition and the white Collector's Edition that they usually do
They wouldn't have said small if they meant repetitive, the photos until now just weren't illustrating that there are 40 Clanrats
Correct, when I said small the photos just showed 20 but now that we know its 40 the box looks way better
40k Leviathan had 25+47 models compared to Skavetides 24+50.
It feels like Leviathan had a little more since they have more bigger models with the Dreadnought and the Tyranid beasts but we have the terrain so seems about the same
Mallo wrote: Wonderful models, I could honestly see me buying at least two if not three sets, price dependent. I love all the models in there.
They'll probably do the usual trio of two player starters as well, so if you aren't going to pawn off the other half and books, you might wait for those to get a better deal.
Man these are looking so good. And even thought we are looking at 40 of them they aren't repetitiv at all. As far as I can see its 2x 20 as you can see with the leader in the bottom left and the center rat at the top with the bright red loincloth which both have the same legs but its not that easy to spot the same bodies so very nice
Also this this little guy who really didn't want to be part of all this and is getting the feth out of here haha.
all of those are great. my only disappointment is that we don't have a model as good as Yndrasta on the stormcast side (a hard ask since she's one of my favorite models), but the prosecutors look gorgeous and both of the new cavalry characters are great, too. definitely hoping i can pick this up at some point
It took another starter set but I'm glad that Skaven finally have proper rat ogres that don't look like they're made of plastercine or are super monopose. I can definitely see people using them as the base for Drukhari Grotesques
CMLR wrote: Are you guys watching the game or already left? ngl I have as background sound while playing WoW.
Really like the new clanrats but kind of a shame they are monopose AND two parts a model and probably won't get a separete multipart kit box.
I'm mixed about it. Monopose is a bummer but we do get 2 completely different command squad and especially 2 different banners which is great. One of the annoying things about the new cities stuff is that each unit only has one banner design. That's the part of the unit that sticks out most on the tabletop.
Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
People really giving Stormcast the short end of the stick, but again, I don't think it'd be wise to underestimate them, they only have it tough versus Skaven because they are available in two systems.
The fur is tragic, It’s getting worse!
I want it, but at that price if correct is just too much for me to justify.
Also would rather no terrain than bad terrain if price goes up. That stuff is bleh.
The minis do look all good for what I want. So may pass and wait for release, then don’t even have to think about trying to get a box with everyone else.
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
I don't get the anti-Stormcast (or The 'Cast as the cool kids call them) sentiments. The 'Cast make great Thunder Warriors, Custodes and even Primarchs.
I have never played AOS. I bought quite a few of the Ironjawz and Kruleboyz models because they're Orcs (duh); I've never liked Stormcast. But I have to say, this looks like one of the best boxed sets that GW have done. My preference is the Skaven, but the new-look Stormcast are very cool.
And I agree with KK that these new Stormcast have a lot of potential for HH conversion. A few tubes, a power pack and a holstered weapon, and they're good.
Really like the upgraded Lord-Veritant. Much more unique looking than its previous incarnation as an essentially reskinned Lord-Castellan.
Hope (but highly doubt) there is an optional build that puts a better focus on the shield, as its gotta be the meanest looking shield in Grand Alliance Order.
I’ve liked Lord-Veritants ever since Callis and Toll had to stand before The White Reaper in City of Secrets. Such a tense scene in a pretty great novel.
I like how the Grey Seer still has some Thanquol in him. The Warpblaster looks great, as do the Jezzails, and they have finally got the Rat Ogres looking properly rat-like. I'm not sure about the leader's mount though - it seems a bit uninspired to just give him a rat-like steed.
Okay I love both halves and even though I'm a Stormcast player and generally biased towards them I think the rats are the better looking half. It pains me a bit, but I'm probably gonna have to split the box though and take the Stormcast as they go with what I'm already collecting and I don't want (and probably can't afford) to start another army. I'm glad we got another hero on a Gryph-something (really gonna miss the old Lord Arcanum on his gryph), and I do like the update to Prosecutors.
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
You realise stormcast are probably the most popular army in the game?
What a glorious day, to be commenting on the new Skaven which are looking excellent overall, on the 13th page of this thread, yes-yes!
Having multiple distinct command options really helps with the variation in the clanrats, and while more dynamic figures have a habit of highlighting repetition, these are generally well designed to avoid that problem, good stuff.
Now, I've been rather out of the loop on the ways of big launch box sets for a while. Would all these sculpts become available separately later, or are some minis generally exclusive to the box?
For £160, compared to leviathan this is a bit gak imo.
The diversity and sizes of the minis in leviathan are better, whilst this does come with a single board and terrain, there's barely any of it. Sigmarines are very character heavy and skaven, whilst good, seem a bit... much at 40 clan rats? 20 clan rats and some other infantry would have made it look better imo.
Yeah, but leviathan we was made up of the umpteenth space marine resculpts. That immediately kills it.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: What a glorious day, to be commenting on the new Skaven which are looking excellent overall, on the 13th page of this thread, yes-yes!
Having multiple distinct command options really helps with the variation in the clanrats, and while more dynamic figures have a habit of highlighting repetition, these are generally well designed to avoid that problem, good stuff.
Now, I've been rather out of the loop on the ways of big launch box sets for a while. Would all these sculpts become available separately later, or are some minis generally exclusive to the box?
Stuff will become separate later. If not when the battle tome releases, then later in the second wave.
Also…dare I say the range removal now has a bit more context to things? Much needed context I stress.
Not really? Any Skaven models and 1st edition Stormcast that got removed already where expected for new models. The big outcry was for the other factions and the 2nd edition Stormcast
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Yeah, but leviathan we was made up of the umpteenth space marine resculpts. That immediately kills it.
It was better value, diversity and you can put the marines aside - compare the nids offering to the skaven and tell me it's anywhere near as good.
It's a matter of taste. I generally dislike the direction they've taken the Tyranid range. I find there to be more personality in a unit of clan rats than there is in the entire Tyranid half of the box except for the screamer killer which I do like. The scenery is a bit lacking but the fact that I can buy the box and and use it to play with my kids without needing any extra material is a big plus. I think the board, the scenery and the spearhead book are more than worth the extra tenner.
Yeah, but leviathan we was made up of the umpteenth space marine resculpts. That immediately kills it.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: What a glorious day, to be commenting on the new Skaven which are looking excellent overall, on the 13th page of this thread, yes-yes!
Having multiple distinct command options really helps with the variation in the clanrats, and while more dynamic figures have a habit of highlighting repetition, these are generally well designed to avoid that problem, good stuff.
Now, I've been rather out of the loop on the ways of big launch box sets for a while. Would all these sculpts become available separately later, or are some minis generally exclusive to the box?
Stuff will become separate later. If not when the battle tome releases, then later in the second wave.
Cheers, good to know.
Can take or leave the artillery; like - but don't need - the leader on monster; and would be happy with just half the Clanrats to spice up my existing verminhorde, but the Rat Ogres and Jezzails would be very welcome additions to the collection. And that Grey Seer is actually really rather excellent too, such classic vibes but in an updated style.
So, that's the Clanrats, a Warlock Engineer, Rat Ogres, and Jezzails shown off now.
From the models announced to be leaving the range, those not yet accounted for are then: Arch Warlock (Ikit Claw), Plague Priest (Skrolk), Master Moulder (Skweel Gnawtooth), Skryre Acolytes (Globadiers), Stormvermin, Plague Censer Bearers, Gutter Runners, Rat Swarms, Giant Rats, Warpfire Thrower, Ratling Gun, Warp Grinder, Doom Flayer.
Quite impressed and if coming to AOS as a complete beginner, I'd be over the moon with this set and would happily split it with a Skaven player. While not a fan of how they're approaching small games, rules wise, they've at least given Spearhead the red carpet treatment with this set. Maybe the following editions of 40K and AOS might be more adventurous with optional units.
As an existing player faced with replacing models, I'm only interested in the Knight-Questor for use in adventure games like Warhammer Quest, or Rangers of Shadowdeep. Throw him on the cover of the "Getting Started" magazine and I'll be a happy bunny. I think if they also included the Greyseer, they could make a fun introduction game - for absolute newcomers to the tabletop hobby - by having the Knight-Questor trying to defeat a foe who might teleport before taking damage, while they might re-appear from an unexpected quarter for a counter attack...or maybe the other side of the kitchen table!
The board and terrain are minimal...but I like them. Not a patch on 3rd edition's dawnbringer effort - that was rather epic! - but I wouldn't say no to them neither. Looking forward to seeing the new starter sets...
Shadow Walker wrote: Grey Seer is great but could skip the tactical rock or at least have it smaller.
*Tactical Bell
I thought it was meant to represent a ruined Screaming Bell, but I guess it's more likely just a less powerful skaven bell that happened to be destroyed
Yeah, but leviathan we was made up of the umpteenth space marine resculpts. That immediately kills it.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: What a glorious day, to be commenting on the new Skaven which are looking excellent overall, on the 13th page of this thread, yes-yes!
Having multiple distinct command options really helps with the variation in the clanrats, and while more dynamic figures have a habit of highlighting repetition, these are generally well designed to avoid that problem, good stuff.
Now, I've been rather out of the loop on the ways of big launch box sets for a while. Would all these sculpts become available separately later, or are some minis generally exclusive to the box?
Stuff will become separate later. If not when the battle tome releases, then later in the second wave.
Cheers, good to know.
Can take or leave the artillery; like - but don't need - the leader on monster; and would be happy with just half the Clanrats to spice up my existing verminhorde, but the Rat Ogres and Jezzails would be very welcome additions to the collection. And that Grey Seer is actually really rather excellent too, such classic vibes but in an updated style.
The way it's gone with previous launch boxes is that the launch box models are split up into a selection of models that go in the regular size starter set, a fraction of which is repeated in the small size starter set (a character and core unit per side, mostly) and a hero or two along with a monster, retinue or elite unit sprue sold individually later on for a humorously expensive price. Think half the price of the launch box or more.
If you want enough of the launch box and happen to like the wrong models, it's worth considering just buying it over the individual models later because buying individually may not even save you money. Ideally we'll see what the starters include before the launch box is on pre-order or sells out to allow people to make an informed decision.
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
You realise stormcast are probably the most popular army in the game?
Well they're included in every set, so that would make sense, but it also speaks to how poorly the game is doing? You do realize that making them the fantasy space marines has been a complete failure?
40 clanrats out of 50 models really isn't hot, and only the mounted lord and the warmachine are new new things, where 5 out of 8 Tyranid units in Leviathan were new, and none were a barely distinguishable resculpt of a 25mm based character.
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
You realise stormcast are probably the most popular army in the game?
Well they're included in every set, so that would make sense, but it also speaks to how poorly the game is doing? You do realize that making them the fantasy space marines has been a complete failure?
you really love talking about how unpopular stormcast are, huh?
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
You realise stormcast are probably the most popular army in the game?
Well they're included in every set, so that would make sense, but it also speaks to how poorly the game is doing? You do realize that making them the fantasy space marines has been a complete failure?
That's an interesting leap in logic. Would you care to explain further?
frankelee wrote: Given that most people don't really care about the Stormcast, if you already have Skaven, I wonder how much value is going to be found here. There's 50 Skaven and 40 Clanrats, I guess it's possible to always need more Clanrats, but it would have felt more interesting to have some smaller units with more variety like the High Elves in Isle of Blood. But FOMO.
You realise stormcast are probably the most popular army in the game?
Well they're included in every set, so that would make sense, but it also speaks to how poorly the game is doing? You do realize that making them the fantasy space marines has been a complete failure?
That's an interesting leap in logic. Would you care to explain further?
I mean, clearly, 40K is dying horribly because Space Marines are the most popular army and are in every box. Soon everything shall collapse like a house of cards and GW will go back to making Warcry and Necromunda as their only games.
I checked out when they switched from the studio developers to 2 announcers for some kind of tourney.
Overall, it was a decent reveal for a new edition. For a Skaven or SCE player, it was probably awesome.
Obviously, they still have time to tease out more stuff for other armies, like "Faction Focus" type articles, but I would've liked some sort of roadmap for factions outside of the starter box.
Also, was the woman narrating the new game mode pretty jarring for anyone else? Going from casual conversation with developers to intense woman hyping up a new way to play felt out of place.
Yeah, but leviathan we was made up of the umpteenth space marine resculpts. That immediately kills it.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: What a glorious day, to be commenting on the new Skaven which are looking excellent overall, on the 13th page of this thread, yes-yes!
Having multiple distinct command options really helps with the variation in the clanrats, and while more dynamic figures have a habit of highlighting repetition, these are generally well designed to avoid that problem, good stuff.
Now, I've been rather out of the loop on the ways of big launch box sets for a while. Would all these sculpts become available separately later, or are some minis generally exclusive to the box?
Stuff will become separate later. If not when the battle tome releases, then later in the second wave.
Cheers, good to know.
Can take or leave the artillery; like - but don't need - the leader on monster; and would be happy with just half the Clanrats to spice up my existing verminhorde, but the Rat Ogres and Jezzails would be very welcome additions to the collection. And that Grey Seer is actually really rather excellent too, such classic vibes but in an updated style.
So, that's the Clanrats, a Warlock Engineer, Rat Ogres, and Jezzails shown off now.
From the models announced to be leaving the range, those not yet accounted for are then: Arch Warlock (Ikit Claw), Plague Priest (Skrolk), Master Moulder (Skweel Gnawtooth), Skryre Acolytes (Globadiers), Stormvermin, Plague Censer Bearers, Gutter Runners, Rat Swarms, Giant Rats, Warpfire Thrower, Ratling Gun, Warp Grinder, Doom Flayer.
Sounds like you need the skaven half anyway. Odds are cheaper than separately
Odds are good either jezzails or cannon are part of online only(so no discount) sprue for close to half the box price. Think the cannon but could be jezzails
I think it is interesting that over time the Stormcast design has gotten more and more Knightly in the sense that they look more and more like humans in functioning medieval armor.
Everything from more bare heads, straps holding on armor, gloves, more realistic proportions, silver rather than gold as main paint scheme, cruder looking helmets, etc.
I hope they continue down this path and eventually just give the people what they want which is Stormcast in traditional great helms or sallet helms, etc. The new liberator helmets are the worst iteration yet.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also…dare I say the range removal now has a bit more context to things? Much needed context I stress.
Yeah, context being even bigger middle finger
Let's see, with the new Reclusians SC now have three different kinds of axe/halberd thingy "elite" infantry, there are multiple redundant SC units armed with bows/crossbows (even more laughable now seeing they at least were differentiated by new/old armor look that had tiny rules difference but now that everyone rocks new look even that will vanish), three different axe/halberd mounted melee lords, zillion hammer infantry - and somehow none of this triply redundant gak (most of which could simply been rules upgrades to existing units instead of being new units) is bloat but the only interesting, different chamber with new play style gets axed because frak you
I was hoping that the new box will at least introduce some new ideas, but nooo, all of it is wasting sprue budget on copy paste of already existing units. Yes, nice looking upgrade but people playing SCalready have these minis, often in multiples, why would they feel compelled to rebuy their existing army? This box feels like it was dictated by marketing, not by anyone who actually likes the army, and while designers did their best to polish this gak, it's still gak.
I was rolling my eyes already after trailer where these new SC job every way to sunday, their magical armor being about as durable as paper even to simple knives, then even harder after reading new AoS magic article (promising "tons of new options for everyone", save for that one subfaction whose defining thing was magic because again, frak you if you like any SC build besides boring crawl-into-melee one), this did very little to change that. I kind of hope this box will bomb as hard as Dominion did so I can pick it up on sale, but alas, GW probably learned from that one and they will make microscopic quantities plus tiny reprints to drive up FOMO...
I really hope that with 5.0 GW might realise that players don't like having half their army removed after only 3 years; and that stormcast can't work with a whole 10-20 model update every 3 years in the game and have it be healthy.
GW can't treat Stormcast like Marines where they can just jump to a subfaction to release a whole new chunk of models. Plus honestly there are so many factions in AoS that could be better done with that production slot in terms of updates and new models.
Yeah SC are great for new players but they swiftly won't be if people keep saying "Oh yeah don't get SC those models go out-of-edition in like 3 years or less."
Which isn't to say that the new SC aren't looking cool - the new hounds are awesome with more fur modelling on them; I love the new details and styles they are going for. The models look fantastic!
As someone who started stormcast with Dominion this seems like a pretty good buy. 4 characters and a battleline unit with the newer armor proportions? Not bad.
I can take or leave the prosecutors though, the stormcast flyers don't really look great to me in either iteration.
Overread wrote: I really hope that with 5.0 GW might realise that players don't like having half their army removed after only 3 years; and that stormcast can't work with a whole 10-20 model update every 3 years in the game and have it be healthy.
GW can't treat Stormcast like Marines where they can just jump to a subfaction to release a whole new chunk of models. Plus honestly there are so many factions in AoS that could be better done with that production slot in terms of updates and new models.
Yeah SC are great for new players but they swiftly won't be if people keep saying "Oh yeah don't get SC those models go out-of-edition in like 3 years or less."
Which isn't to say that the new SC aren't looking cool - the new hounds are awesome with more fur modelling on them; I love the new details and styles they are going for. The models look fantastic!
Couldn't have said it any better.
Luckily I bought most of my AOS collection from the part-magazines, but had I paid for the standard packaged kits I'd be bloody angry right now. Thankfully I wasn't daring enough to hand over money for the likes of the Tauralon or Dracoline rider kits, and would probably not be in the mood to recommend the game to others.
Thankfully my AOS collection can be put towards games from other companies, going forward...
Overread wrote: I really hope that with 5.0 GW might realise that players don't like having half their army removed after only 3 years; and that stormcast can't work with a whole 10-20 model update every 3 years in the game and have it be healthy.
GW can't treat Stormcast like Marines where they can just jump to a subfaction to release a whole new chunk of models. Plus honestly there are so many factions in AoS that could be better done with that production slot in terms of updates and new models.
Yeah SC are great for new players but they swiftly won't be if people keep saying "Oh yeah don't get SC those models go out-of-edition in like 3 years or less."
Which isn't to say that the new SC aren't looking cool - the new hounds are awesome with more fur modelling on them; I love the new details and styles they are going for. The models look fantastic!
Couldn't have said it any better.
Luckily I bought most of my AOS collection from the part-magazines, but had I paid for the standard packaged kits I'd be bloody angry right now. Thankfully I wasn't daring enough to hand over money for the likes of the Tauralon or Dracoline rider kits, and would probably not be in the mood to recommend the game to others.
Thankfully my AOS collection can be put towards games from other companies, going forward...
As someone who disliked my full sacrosanct army being invalidated after 3 years I can say it leaves such a bad taste that I look at these and cannot get behind them.
To make things worse I do not like the new design directions, they all are substantially worse, I loved the big and simple armour dudes that paint easy, now you get elegant overcrowded armour with detail dudes... that will be such a pain to paint. No thanks. I will have SO MUCH MORE fun painting and converting my Sacros than any of these new SC. As for the Skaven... boring? Very much so.
A very easy pass from me, in fact I would not enjoy working on this box even if gifted for free.
Well I put my name down at the FLGS for one skaven half and the terrain. Could do with more rat ogres and jezzails for sure if Stormcast fans will be unloading.
Pretty good stuff. Just some annnoying details:
I dont like there is a rat riding a rat.
And the executioner guy have to stand on a tactical rock to fit the axe in the pose, it feels like a lazy conversion.
I really like the design choises to twist the stormcast paraphernalia to more grim style, like the torches instead of lanterns and crowlike gryphon instead of more regal birds of prey.
.
Rat riding Rat fits though - even in Old World it was rats riding rats. Skaven have always made use of their feral cousins for - experiments and upgrading them to be larger for their needs.
Overread wrote: I really hope that with 5.0 GW might realise that players don't like having half their army removed after only 3 years; and that stormcast can't work with a whole 10-20 model update every 3 years in the game and have it be healthy.
GW can't treat Stormcast like Marines where they can just jump to a subfaction to release a whole new chunk of models. Plus honestly there are so many factions in AoS that could be better done with that production slot in terms of updates and new models.
Yeah SC are great for new players but they swiftly won't be if people keep saying "Oh yeah don't get SC those models go out-of-edition in like 3 years or less."
Which isn't to say that the new SC aren't looking cool - the new hounds are awesome with more fur modelling on them; I love the new details and styles they are going for. The models look fantastic!
Couldn't have said it any better.
Luckily I bought most of my AOS collection from the part-magazines, but had I paid for the standard packaged kits I'd be bloody angry right now. Thankfully I wasn't daring enough to hand over money for the likes of the Tauralon or Dracoline rider kits, and would probably not be in the mood to recommend the game to others.
Thankfully my AOS collection can be put towards games from other companies, going forward...
As someone who disliked my full sacrosanct army being invalidated after 3 years I can say it leaves such a bad taste that I look at these and cannot get behind them.
To make things worse I do not like the new design directions, they all are substantially worse, I loved the big and simple armour dudes that paint easy, now you get elegant overcrowded armour with detail dudes... that will be such a pain to paint. No thanks. I will have SO MUCH MORE fun painting and converting my Sacros than any of these new SC. As for the Skaven... boring? Very much so.
A very easy pass from me, in fact I would not enjoy working on this box even if gifted for free.
Correction: I like the rats ruler though XD
It would be an easier pill to swallow if it was a straight upgrade to existing models in terms of just replacing sculpts with updates.
However its clear that some are coming and some are going in terms of what SC get and that's really unfair after only 3 years.
CMLR wrote: Sacrosanct chamber will be back the next edition or two don't worry, GW has to sell models and what better way then recycling their own stuff.
CMLR wrote: Sacrosanct chamber will be back the next edition or two don't worry, GW has to sell models and what better way then recycling their own stuff.
CMLR wrote: Sacrosanct chamber will be back the next edition or two don't worry, GW has to sell models and what better way then recycling their own stuff.
The pole is the silly part. If it was closer to the Cawdor Stig, it would be much more tolerable. In fact, thinking about it, the Stig is just a little dude riding a bigger dude, so that trumps rat riding a rat.
I think its a dedicated pole made for the purpose. the Axle parts you're seeing are the foot/hand holds that the marksman has to clamber up to get up high or run down during battle.
Overread wrote: I think its a dedicated pole made for the purpose. the Axle parts you're seeing are the foot/hand holds that the marksman has to clamber up to get up high or run down during battle.
The "pole" is literally from a wagon. The yoke for the pack animal is what the ogre is wearing as a wooden "belt".
I might be calling it the wrong thing, but it's wagon parts.
The way to make the ogre work would have been to make the rider a loony amber wizard who can cast troll barf. That actually stands a chance of hitting something.
Someone actually went through and found the shared bodies for the upcoming clan rats. Given how unique the models are, I don't think shared bodies are even an issue.
Anyway, the picture is quite elaborate not to get duplicates close to each other. Anytime I put down chaos cultists in units I always end up with 4 or 5 identical guys next to each other
Odd as this may sound, the two 19s on the left go together, and the two 19s on the right go together (as can be seen by the tactical shiny under one paw).
Brand's Oathbound I'd like to add to my Frostgrave warband, which already consists of the Godsworn Hunt. As always it will depend on price.
Would absolutely love to add the Wilderfiend to my growing collection of Slaves to Darkness monsters, but fully expecting GW to be difficult and make it direct only with no discount.
Krethusa looks fabulous and would love to add her to games of Frostgrave as a boss-witch or something. Straight away I'm thinking that she could be a Eric Draven like character. Can't possibly think why though...
Would absolutely love to add the Wilderfiend to my growing collection of Slaves to Darkness monsters, but fully expecting GW to be difficult and make it direct only with no discount.
They display a picture of the Wilderfiend box in the video, so there's a good chance it'll be released to stores.
Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?
Billicus wrote: Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?
You buy the cards first, point out all the typos, then GW gives the free, corrected download that's actually playable. You're essentially paying to be a proofreader.
and yes, 3+/4+ and 4+/3+ being the main difference between certain units already caused some discussion in 1st Edition as people somehow cannot get behind the idea that this is the same because there must be a significant difference between units (as GW games have more depth than that)
When we're not rolling 10,000 dice at a time, statistics barely matters. It can give a general idea of an outcome but we're dealing in a small enough set that outliers are numerous. At the scale of dice rolling we're actually doing, gatekeeper rolls matter - having better chances higher up the chain means you're more likely to get to the next step. 3+/4+ is better than 4+/3+ because you'll usually get to roll more to wound dice in the former.
At an extreme example, 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 2+ save is better than 6+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 6+ save, even though they are statistically the same.
Billicus wrote: Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?
You buy the cards first, point out all the typos, then GW gives the free, corrected download that's actually playable. You're essentially paying to be a proofreader.
a bit disappointed we didn't get the full index, and a bit disappointed we didn't get an idea of what the character + units blocks that are used for army construction are like. wish we had gotten to see one or two of those here
When we're not rolling 10,000 dice at a time, statistics barely matters. It can give a general idea of an outcome but we're dealing in a small enough set that outliers are numerous. At the scale of dice rolling we're actually doing, gatekeeper rolls matter - having better chances higher up the chain means you're more likely to get to the next step. 3+/4+ is better than 4+/3+ because you'll usually get to roll more to wound dice in the former.
What are you even talking about?
Having more dice at the wounding stage is irrelevant if you then lose more dice because your odds of wounding are worse.
Let's take 36 dice (for simplicity of math) and compare an extreme of hitting on 6+, wounding on 2+ vs. hitting on 2+, wounding on 6+.
In the first scenario, you'll hit with only 6/36 of your hits. Pathetic, right? But then you'll wound with 5/6 of them, for a total of 5 wounds.
In the second scenario, you'll hit with 30/36 hits. YEAH, BABY! ROCK ON! 30 ROLLS TO WOUND! Except reality then kicks in and you'll actually wound with only 5/30 for a grand total of... 5 wounds.
Almost as if it makes no fething difference whether you get more hits or more wounds because the only thing that matters in the end is the final outcome.
Now, you're free to argue that this is just averages. Indeed, even if you roll exactly 36 dice, you might not get exactly 5 wounds at the end. To which the answer is 'so what?'. The point of statistics of this nature is not to be a crystal ball but to predict where the average will fall over the course of a given game.
At an extreme example, 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 2+ save is better than 6+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 6+ save, even though they are statistically the same.
Neither of those scenarios is better than the other.
Though I agree you would want the first unit, because hitting and wounding on 2+/2+ is obviously better than hitting and wounding on 6+/2+.
Billicus wrote: Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?
You buy the cards first, point out all the typos, then GW gives the free, corrected download that's actually playable. You're essentially paying to be a proofreader.
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Yndrasta and Prosecutors have almost the same ability with a different name, just worded slightly differently and the Prosecutors don't have a dice pool limit?
Yndrasta: 'add 1 to the number of dice rolled when making charge rolls for this unit, to a maximum of 3'
Prosecutors: 'when you make a charge roll for this unit, roll 1 additional dice'
It just feels like they could have A) used the same sentence structure for both or B) just use the same ability twice and decide which version to keep since they are super similar with the exception that one of them can technically stack buffs more.
GW has been doing that for ages. Best theory is that they've got a mandate that all models must have unique rules however design wise there's only a limited number of ideas/concepts they can use.
Heck I've seen them give the identical same ability different names in the same battletome (one of the seeker riders for slaanesh one edition).
It's bonkers but I suspect its a manger/CEO bit of feedback that "players like models with unique abilities" being translated into "give them to every unit so that everyone likes everything" which boils down to daft game design concepts.
What makes you think they're going away? They're literally the first Clan mentioned:
'The lesser clans themselves belong to one of the Great Clans, which dominate Skaven society with their specialties and secrets – the assassins of the Clans Eshin, the madcap engineers of the Clans Skryre, the breeders and beast handlers of the Clans Moulder, or the plague priests of the Clans Pestilens.'
they showed off a Moulder battle formation, and said,
Pestilens, Skryre, and Clan Verminus also have representation in the Skaven Battle Formations, specialising in lethal prototypes, corrupting the earth itself, and emboldening your rank-and-file Clanrats, Stormvermin, and other Claw-horde units.
which, even if Eshin still has models and rules, shows them being left out of this here
Eshin do have large numbers of skaven but they are never really shown as a huge marching army. Every time I recall seeing them its more Clan Eshin in support of another group of Skaven. Elite troops brought into the army to provide their skills; rather than a whole army on their own.
Historically they've had the smallest line of models specific to them of all the clans of Skaven and its always been assassins and elite style troops with the rest being regular skaven.
So I could see GW simply putting them to the side as a Clan but in game just being specialist troops and leaders for hire.
The alternative is that they have a long term plan to deepen the lore on them and flesh them out. However its tricky because Skaven is 1 Battletome not 4. You can only add some many things into each slot before its tripping over itself and I don't get the feeling that GW wants to do with Skaven what they did iwth Chaos Demons. AT least not now and not for a long long time, if ever.
So it looks like to play Skaven you pretty much have to get a set of Gnawhole models. Glad I wasn't planning on keeping the Skaven half of the launch box. I don't like it when certain models are required to play a faction. It's an unnecessary tax. Plus the models are out of stock currently (at least in the US); what are you supposed to do if you can't get the models?
Glad they didn't do Stormcast like that, and I hope that holds true for my Kruleboyz too. Faction terrain should be optional, not required for your army's basic abilities.
ZergSmasher wrote: So it looks like to play Skaven you pretty much have to get a set of Gnawhole models. Glad I wasn't planning on keeping the Skaven half of the launch box. I don't like it when certain models are required to play a faction. It's an unnecessary tax. Plus the models are out of stock currently (at least in the US); what are you supposed to do if you can't get the models?
Glad they didn't do Stormcast like that, and I hope that holds true for my Kruleboyz too. Faction terrain should be optional, not required for your army's basic abilities.
There's no "must" on the Gnawhole abilities, so feel free to avoid them if you feel buying one box is that much of a tax on the army. Sure, you're not then taking advantage of everything, but that's your choice when it comes to tea and the harbour.
Alternatively - while they're out of stock, and outside of official events - try asking nicely and I'm sure someone will confirm the rough dimensions so you can make paper or card markers for them. No ideal, but as models can't end up stood on them the lack of 3D is probably not that much of an issue.
Pretty sure faction terrain has been "soft mandatory" (not prescribed but a free buff so you'd be daft not to take it) since day 1 back in 2nd edition?
A few of them are even bound really powerfully into the army design such that you really don't want to leave them out - like the Herdstone or the one the Goblins have.
A few - like the Ossiarch one - I think get left out because freaking heck its huge to put on the table.
Gnawholes I think are an ideal example of terrain. It is small enough to easily fit on the map and its a boon to have, but you can still run an army without it.
ZergSmasher wrote: So it looks like to play Skaven you pretty much have to get a set of Gnawhole models. Glad I wasn't planning on keeping the Skaven half of the launch box. I don't like it when certain models are required to play a faction. It's an unnecessary tax. Plus the models are out of stock currently (at least in the US); what are you supposed to do if you can't get the models?
Glad they didn't do Stormcast like that, and I hope that holds true for my Kruleboyz too. Faction terrain should be optional, not required for your army's basic abilities.
When we're not rolling 10,000 dice at a time, statistics barely matters. It can give a general idea of an outcome but we're dealing in a small enough set that outliers are numerous. At the scale of dice rolling we're actually doing, gatekeeper rolls matter - having better chances higher up the chain means you're more likely to get to the next step. 3+/4+ is better than 4+/3+ because you'll usually get to roll more to wound dice in the former.
At an extreme example, 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 2+ save is better than 6+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 6+ save, even though they are statistically the same.
Holy gamblers fallacy.
No. That's not how stats work.
The probability of a statistically above average to hit roll where your gatekeeper effect pays off is statistically equal to the probability of a below average to hit roll where the gatekeeper effect doesnt reward you. While you may hit an individual roll where the gatekeeper effect pays off, or have a game where you're rolling hot and you benefit from it multiple times, this will eventually be counterbalanced by rolls that play out in reverse and regress your performance to the mean. Rolling 10,000 dice at a time has nothing to do with it, what dies matter is how many independent dice rolls you make over the course of your "career" - if you're making a dozen to hit rolls per turn, and averaging 3 turns per game, you will hit your hypothetical 10,000 probability event threshold for statistics to matter after about 2.5 years of playing an average of 2 games per week regularly.
So sure, you may have a bunch of rolls/games where stats don't matter and you gatekeeper your way to a win, but unless you barely ever play and have a tendency to roll hot in your too small almost nonexistent sample size of games played, you will eventually have just as many rolls/games where the opposite occurs and you gain no benefit from it whatsoever.
I was surprised to see the Monks stay while the Censer Bearers are to be culled; a logical option seems to combine both into one kit. Which I suppose might still happen, albeit with a gap where Censer Bearers won't be available at all for a while - assuming they won't just be dropped completely.
Marshal Loss wrote: Apologies if this is a stupid question as I haven't followed closely: but are Plague Monks expected to get a new kit with 4.0?
This was the list posted by the leaker who leaked some starter set model pictures back in March:
Spoiler:
DANGER:
Plague Censer
Rat Swarms
Giant Rats
Gutter Runners
Refresh:
seer、warlock、moulder
clanrats、stormvermin
ALL WEAPONTEAMS
Jezzails、Globadiers
Rat Ogors
NEW:
new warlock
new warlord
new verminlord
new artillery
new behemoth
new wolfrats
Also this in another post a little later:
The Hyper-Warp-Ratling-Cannonade？
Skryre has More-More-More!
Refresh：
Arch-Warlock
Warlock Engineer
—And—
New Warlock!
Galvaneer with warpvolt obliterators
So Plague Monks are likely not going to get a new kit this edition or at least not in this wave. They could get a new kit later in the end of edition campaign or in a Warcry release
The article about The Vermindoom would probably have more impact if I could remember what Aqshy looked like previously. Honestly, the biggest struggle with AoS continues to be that the realms feel so bland.
That’s because the realms are too big. There are living mountains, city sized monsters, floating continents, and a million lost civilizations with god tier weapons that have recently been discovered and everyone wants it
I think its also because GW hasn't produced as many big landscape images of the realms. It's not like Old World where you could just use the vast mountain of Tolkien/fantasy/medieval artwork and it would cover most regions and inspirations.
The Realms are bonkers insane huge and GW hasn't really created a vast body of artwork that shows the landscape. They show off troops and ruins aplenty, but we don't really see the realms themselves enough. Landscapes, farmscapes, cityscapes and more would be fantastic to see to get more of a flavour.
Scottywan82 wrote: The article about The Vermindoom would probably have more impact if I could remember what Aqshy looked like previously. Honestly, the biggest struggle with AoS continues to be that the realms feel so bland.
What's there to know? Aqshy used to be on fire. Now, Aqshy is on fire. The more things change. the more they're just as planned.
Scottywan82 wrote: The article about The Vermindoom would probably have more impact if I could remember what Aqshy looked like previously. Honestly, the biggest struggle with AoS continues to be that the realms feel so bland.
This reads like a complaint from someone who hasn't read anything about the game. The great parch map is probably the most detailed and commonly reprinted map in Warhammer except the old world and the 40k galactic map.The great parch map is in the second and third edition core books as well as quite a few battletomes from both editions. The soulbound core book has a full colour version of the great parch map on the inside of the front and back covers.
Also it's pretty traditional on fantasy to not map everything. Middle earth, westeros, etc don't have full maps. Discworld has one now but Terry pratchett said he played fast and loose with geography. The wheel of time world doesn't even have a name. I'm not so familiar with DnD but I'm not sure even that setting has a full map.
The thing is a lot of those fantasy series draw from tropes. Heck Discworld and Westroes draw from Middle Earth.
They also operate on worlds mostly broadly similar to our own. Discworld is the most "out there mad" but even then its more of a twist on the modern world than a full rebuilding.
AoS is different. It has realms where there are lakes of quicksilver, storms of rust, the literal dead walking and unliving beside you; shadows so thick its like living in a permeant smog.
Some realms have living animals that are a fusion of machine and organics.
The realms are super high fantasy and so detatched from our real world and the decades of Middle Earth inspired fantasy that they are harder to envision. IT doesn't help that they are also vast in size; each realm being a flat vast planet of its own (in fact in the very early lore they were almost said to be evergrowing). With the amount of warped strange nature varying over the realm itself.
Each realm has unique wildlife, creatures and challenges. Eg in Dynasty of Monsters you've got a settlement in the Beast Realm (which in general is possibly one of the easier ones to envision) set in a region where you can go to sleep on a plain and awaken on the side of a mountain because the geography changed. In minutes you go from flat land to huge mountains.
Now that's a vast amount of fantasy going on. Even the "City built on pillars to avoid changes" raises huge questions on how it can function. You then get to something like farming - how do you farm any crop when the very land and ecosystem can change in the blink of an eye; heck how to living animals thrive and survive in such an enviornment.
There's an edge to the Mortal Realms of every realm almost being a bit like the Chaos Realm in that its very hard to imagine how they "function". There's so much magic and so much stuff going on its hard to mentally picture the place "working"
AOS is so absurd a setting that you either explain everything with ''because magic'', and like it or just collect minis/use them in other games, and/or play the game do not giving a gak about the lore.
Shadow Walker wrote: AOS is so absurd a setting that you either explain everything with ''because magic'', and like it or just collect minis/use them in other games, and/or play the game do not giving a gak about the lore.
I love the idea of the setting, but yes there's a whole bunch of lore that just feels like it was thrown out there as ideas and no one at GW really cared to try and make the realms "work".
You can really really tell this at the very start of AoS where things are even more mind-bendlingly crazy. GW have actually toned it down here and there.
It's a shame because its such an insanely vibrant world it should be the Discworld of "serious" fantasy. It's certainly channelling that same energy; just without a creator caring to make it a functional system.
I think its also hobbled because of how GW likes ot present its lore is very company driven whcih means they only want to talk about models in their stories. This kind of means that things like farming; farmers; food production; how you live; wildlife and so forth often gets either outright ignored or only mentioned in passing. That worked in Old World because it was very akin to other fantasies and reality. So you could mention serfs farming in Bretonnia and most people would be able to imagine how it worked without too much a stretch of the imagination.
You mention farmers farming in AoS and you get a billion questions come to mind about what kind of crop; how they harvest it; how they protect it; how they water and feed it; how they transport and trade it; what the livestock on the farm are like and so forth.
Old world was designed to be a grim twist on something familiar, with a recognizable connection to reality. The miniatures in many ways served or were beholden to the setting.
AOS was designed so the design studio would never feel fenced in by the setting at any time. Imo it is so maximally broad in order to solve the "problem" of setting or aesthetic consistency. They can just write whatever they want about whatever place to serve whatever purpose they want to serve for the miniatures.
Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
You mention farmers farming in AoS and you get a billion questions come to mind about what kind of crop; how they harvest it; how they protect it; how they water and feed it; how they transport and trade it; what the livestock on the farm are like and so forth.
Hilariously, the Flesh Eaters Courts lore has the most we've ever gotten on farming and peasantry in the setting.
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's a subject entirely unexplored even in such literary giants as Middle Earth.
There are some references to it, to be fair. The general enthusiasm of hobbits for all sorts of farming, farmer Maggot and his homestead being quite prominently featured in the initial chapters, the pelennor fields around Minas Tirith etc.
The same goes for Game of thrones, where the Riverlands and the Reach are regularly referred to in terms of their agricultural use, Lemons in Dorne/Bravos etc.
I'm not saying it is necessary for AoS, in fact, I belive it would be kind of strange to have such dry facts inserted into an inherently silly setting like this, but let's not pretend that kind of detail in world building doesn't exist in other settings.
NAVARRO wrote: I never really let go of the old-world lore and still look at my minis as part of that with stromcast being just a new faction.
Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's a subject entirely unexplored even in such literary giants as Middle Earth.
It's mentioned, but as I said because those settings lift a lot from the real world we live in and the past practice of historical times, we can at least envision them. Sure we don't have to know exact tools and crop rotations or field size and so forth. But we can imagine basic tooling, smithing, leatherworking and so forth that allows us to create a fairly decent mental picture. It fills the gaps on its own and person to person we can share a similar concept of the setting.
AoS however is bonkers nuts and honestly it wouldn't be dry to learn how farmers work and live in the realms when you consider how excitingly insanely wild they are as places.
Plus there are always ways to work such details in - the classic trope of "farmersboy saves kingdom" is a tried and tested way to show the bottom to the top of a society in a fantasy setting. You could easily have someone from a farming background rise up in the ranks of the Cities of Sigmar or suffer at the hands of another faction.
We've actually had some stories like this in the early Novella that did some good ground work on things.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
You mean the name that was stupid and made no sense in WFB in the first place? Only one of the "counts" was an actual count (Isabella von Carstein, and she was just a trophy wife Vlad and the rest of "family" used to illegally claim noble title, which can't be even said about the rest of the "count" bloodlines and in any case, obscures the origins and far older history of the faction than Vlad's recent minor scheme of a power grab).
As for elves, you are aware that for vast majority of their history it was spelled ælf in English and if anything, it's Tolkien who invented wrongly spelled donutsteel names for both them and dwarves (and funnily enough, GW with their 'dwarfs' spelling is how it's actually supposed to be written too)? You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, af, and similar names in early English and other Germanic languages
BertBert wrote: The same goes for Game of thrones, where the Riverlands and the Reach are regularly referred to in terms of their agricultural use, Lemons in Dorne/Bravos etc.
Yeah no. Riverlands were torched regularly by like 547493 armies for 5 straight years in the books, funnily enough, it never caused noticeable famine or anything. Ditto with The Vale closing borders despite definitely not producing enough food due to terrain in the first place, said terrain making transporting what little they had nearly impossible. Supply issues? What's that?
As for the Reach, medieval historian tried to figure out how to supply any place of note from them in series of in depth articles. Spoiler alert - it makes even less sense than AoS handwaves, can't be done, due to stupid placement of the rivers on map, and King's Landing and pretty much the entire east of the map should have died in epic scale famine ages ago
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
You mean the name that was stupid and made no sense in WFB in the first place? Only one of the "counts" was an actual count (Isabella von Carstein, and she was just a trophy wife Vlad and the rest of "family" used to illegally claim noble title, which can't be even said about the rest of the "count" bloodlines and in any case, obscures the origins and far older history of the faction than Vlad's recent minor scheme of a power grab).
As for elves, you are aware that for vast majority of their history it was spelled ælf in English and if anything, it's Tolkien who invented wrongly spelled donutsteel names for both them and dwarves (and funnily enough, GW with their 'dwarfs' spelling is how it's actually supposed to be written too)? You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, af, and similar names in early English and other Germanic languages
i wish they had committed to spelling it with an æ. it's a very underrated character in english, especially ever since mtg stopped spelling æther the fun way
Overread wrote: Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
And (imo), GW also expected Stormcast to be the Space Marines of the AoS universe. Prior to creation, I envision lots of excited marketing execs talking about how the punters would buy Stormcast over and over so they could have the gold faction, the silver faction, then the red, green, yellow, white and blue ones etc...
Overread wrote: Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
And (imo), GW also expected Stormcast to be the Space Marines of the AoS universe. Prior to creation, I envision lots of excited marketing execs talking about how the punters would buy Stormcast over and over so they could have the gold faction, the silver faction, then the red, green, yellow, white and blue ones etc...
I really wanted to make a comment about the spiky Stormcast faction, but then remembered Chaos Warriors are already a thing.
Its problematic with the AoS setting that you even need to think twice about how farming work.
Most other settings you instantly get the concept, but with AoS you simply have to imagine the good people of Aqshy harvesting floating potatoe chips and riding fyrebuzzards to herd their squiglike tomato cattle.
ZergSmasher wrote: So it looks like to play Skaven you pretty much have to get a set of Gnawhole models. Glad I wasn't planning on keeping the Skaven half of the launch box. I don't like it when certain models are required to play a faction. It's an unnecessary tax. Plus the models are out of stock currently (at least in the US); what are you supposed to do if you can't get the models?
Glad they didn't do Stormcast like that, and I hope that holds true for my Kruleboyz too. Faction terrain should be optional, not required for your army's basic abilities.
Aos faction terrain being must have isn't new though. Idoneth about only one whose terrain rules were so bad it was just movement blocker to use(and even that is valuable for 0pts)
Tournament crowd pleased with no dice roll debuffed but max 1debuff each.
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Fayric wrote: Its problematic with the AoS setting that you even need to think twice about how farming work.
Most other settings you instantly get the concept, but with AoS you simply have to imagine the good people of Aqshy harvesting floating potatoe chips and riding fyrebuzzards to herd their squiglike tomato cattle.
Not really since it's not like aqshy is all fire with no water.
Apparently, it's an acceptable spelling for military use.
I was just about to google that, so thank you for saving me the trip. Still looks very silly, though. With GW's love of making up their own variations of common words, I was 60% sure they were just looking for something they could add TM to.
Apparently, it's an acceptable spelling for military use.
I was just about to google that, so thank you for saving me the trip. Still looks very silly, though. With GW's love of making up their own variations of common words, I was 60% sure they were just looking for something they could add TM to.
I thought it's because every officer is also a vicar, what with the whole crusading crusaders of Sigmar religious theme Cities now have.
Scottywan82 wrote: Interesting that units don't actually go inside the ships anymore. I can see how it simplifies things in the game, but it feels wrong somehow.
agreed... would look beter with cables and ropes hanging down for the troops to grab and "ride" in on...
but would look even better if it was Goblins doing it!
but would look even better if it was Goblins doing it!
There was a mention about goblin sky pirates in AOS lore so maybe one day those will show up?
I always figured those were "convert Khadorans and Goblins" ideas more than full faction. That said the opening days of AoS there were a LOT of minor factions teased; partly cause I figure GW's plan at the time was they were going to do lots of small "armies".
4 Grand Alliances that don't end and then just rotate new armies in and out of them with one or two wave releases depending on how they sell. Fits for the casual game and "everyone just collects models and doesn't play" approach that their marketing was based on at the time.
Same as how there were undersea nymphs teased for the Sylvaneth and a bunch of other things. Heck Malarion - one of the biggest armies in the Shadow Realm - was teased then and still hasn't had a release.
Whilst I love Ossiarchs and whilst I do think Skaven did need a huge refresh I'm genuinely surprised that GW hasn't used either of those two slots for Malerion. He's clearly a key character in the God Pantheon and rules one of the whole Realms more or less.
I figure its possibly the same reason GW hasn't done anything with the Dark Elf stuff in Cities of Sigmar. All that side seems to have a huge questionmark over what GW are going to do with them and GW doesn't seem to want to commit to any one choice. Heck they even soft rebuilt the army with one of the expansion books rolling the Dark Elf stuff back into Daughters of Khaine.
Part of me wonders if GW didn't want to put DoK back into the Dark Elf and then just release a few heroes and call it "Malarion's" army and then DoK wound up being actually pretty popular .
Who knows, but it is odd that one of the biggest characters and armies just isn't there in lore or game.
There is no summoning units from nothing in the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar, in order to reduce the need for extra miniatures beyond your initial army list.
I don't really see why it would be upsetting. Restricting them from going over unit size is good. With a little bit of planning you can basically get a constant regenning full sized unit.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't really see why it would be upsetting. Restricting them from going over unit size is good. With a little bit of planning you can basically get a constant regenning full sized unit.
Someone on Facebook spelled it out quite nicely: In order for Pinks to split, there have to be Blues nearby. If the Blues are still full, the Pinks can't split. If the Blues get wiped, the Pinks can't split.
Having a unit ability - especially one as iconic as Splitting - being wholly dependent upon having a specific unit which has taken casualties nearby is more than a little off-putting.
Well it's one of those balance over fluff instances. Summoning has to be controlled and i see this as quite a neat way to do it. Just means you'll have to plan around the splitting if you want to take full advantage of it.
yeah, it adds a new tactical element to the army, both something to keep in mind, and a bit of counterplay (and if splitting isn't an option, then there's the alternative. there's definitely worse ways they could have handled this ability
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's one of those balance over fluff instances. Summoning has to be controlled and i see this as quite a neat way to do it. Just means you'll have to plan around the splitting if you want to take full advantage of it.
Why bother? A halfway competent opponent will just focus on the Pinks before even looking at the Blues, and with only a 6+/6++ to protect them, it won't take much to wipe them (though, now having two wounds makes them a bit tougher).
Granted, I'm dooming and glooming before seeing all the rules, so we'll have to wait and see what other synergies come into play. For right now, initial reactions? Not impressed.
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StudentOfEtherium wrote: yeah, it adds a new tactical element to the army, both something to keep in mind, and a bit of counterplay (and if splitting isn't an option, then there's the alternative. there's definitely worse ways they could have handled this ability
...an alternative that requires the unit being in a position they really don't want to be in.
Considering that recycling units is a common, fully integrated mechanic, might have been better for Pinks that get wiped out to simply be recycled as a full sized unit of Blues (rather than the usual half sized original unit)
And I dunno about Summoning, isn't it just Reserves With Extra Steps? It's the same thing as Stormcast teleporting but worse. Is there a provision for what to do with a unit in the Silver Tower (or other faction equivalent) if the summoner is sniped?
Summoning jumps around. Sometimes its just a reserves system; sometimes its better or worse (more or less reliable on dice rolls to come in); sometimes its totally free new models being added to your army in full squads; sometimes its restoring lost models to a squad.
It's varied a lot over the years and in general its always tricky whenever its been free squads because even weak squads are still free things to use.
The other issue is that pinks to blue increases the number of models. So you can't just run it like a degrading unit profile that just changes the model at some point.
man it seems like they are really loving delayed deployment stuff and rend.
it seems that just about everything that we have seen has at least rend one.
+
You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, 
