aku-chan wrote: I like those new Kharadrons, and it looks like we're finally getting some female ones.
I agree! Hehe.
Q: 'How do you like your women?'
A: 'Chonnnkkk'
I do actually like them, it's a dual kit with a fair bit of options too. The deep sea diver looking character is full of details for sure but looks great.
Shame there's a debate on Reddit about the value of this new Spearhead (or perceived lack of it) compared to the old one. Spearhead is obviously it's own game and has been getting rave reviews and converts alike but I always thought for anyone who wants an actual army of the same faction the Spearhead boxes still work out great value.
lord_blackfang wrote: The chance of being killed by a Kharadron poop is low but never zero
That's why they've introduced the flying portapotty in this wave. The drones have air fresheners, but I feel one of them really should have an unwinding roll of toilet paper fluttering in its wake.
I think they've been up on the UK store for a little bit - I know I'm waiting for the Autochoral doo-dad to stop being "Temporarily out of stock" so I can order one.
Tides of Death has gone, which is interesting. Loss of ability to deploy in reserve, but gains the ability to bounce units around the field. Not sure which is better to be honest.
Warhammer Community wrote: To celebrate this decade of battle, later this month we’ll be bringing you a huge Warhammer Preview show, packed with loads of reveals. We’ve even heard rumblings of a brand new army in the Mortal Realms…
Matrindur wrote: Well looking at the roadmap I could see us getting a token Nighthaunt hero reveal too?
Nighthaunt don't really need anything major at this point, so i could see it being a pity hero of some sort. FEC's are pretty much guaranteed a new Terrorgheist since the new Draconith for Soulblight.
Yep I'd be very surprised if we don't get a new Terrorgheist - granted GW has done odd things before like adding a new Destroyer type to the Necrons and not updating the basic destroyer nor destroyer lord model - which outside of named characters is pretty much the last necron model not updated and old-style.
The Idoneth "Era of Ruin" short story that dropped yesterday was a good one.
Spoiler:
A little bit of "soul searching" for a race that has to steal souls to survive. And the various factions in the realms are getting hip to their tricks!
Assuming it is Chorfs, it's going to be really weird that they get a faction release before Malerion's Shadow Elves (who were referenced back in AOS 1st ed, IIRC).
Kurdoss Valentian isn't even that old a model nor can I see anything on it that suggests its "old style" or worth removing. I'd also hazard a rebranded new box. It's a bit daft that GW's public end of their store does that honestly. It should be just an internal flag really.
Well it's a change of barcode I believe. So technically the item is "sold out" even though it isn't. So they would have to list it like that until the new box replaces it.
Spirit hosts are in the spearhead, so if they get replaced that would need to go/be updated.
They are also not an easy kit to build, which is odd considering their inclusion in the into mode of the game. I’d love to see them get redone into something that’s less frustrating to work with, but do like how they look.
Nevelon wrote: Spirit hosts are in the spearhead, so if they get replaced that would need to go/be updated.
They are also not an easy kit to build, which is odd considering their inclusion in the into mode of the game. I’d love to see them get redone into something that’s less frustrating to work with, but do like how they look.
Pretty sure Nighthaunt are right around the corner, and every new book has included a new Spearhead, so the current one going away soon seems pretty much assured.
Nevelon wrote: Soulblight got new rules for a new spearhead not yet released, and the old one is still for sale, but they replaced the old skeletons with new ones.
Who knows what GW will do these days...
Those weren't even old skeletons either - I can only figure GW must have had a LOT of people with damage/problems building them to update the kit that swiftly.
Nevelon wrote: Soulblight got new rules for a new spearhead not yet released, and the old one is still for sale, but they replaced the old skeletons with new ones.
Who knows what GW will do these days...
Those weren't even old skeletons either - I can only figure GW must have had a LOT of people with damage/problems building them to update the kit that swiftly.
It wasn’t the best kit. Very nice looking though. Just this morning I finished building the last 2 of the 20 from that era I had. I snapped one leg off total during construction, and was lucky enough that the bone ran along the fabric of the coat that the point of brake, so repair was easy.
Comparing them with the Cursed City skeletons, they were a lot harder to build, while looking the same. It is nice to have arm possibility and weapon swaps, but you could have that without the legs/pelvises a completely separate bit. It’s not even like we got any articulation from it. You might get some more visible detail from an extreme upskirt angle, but honestly, when are you going to look for that? on second thought, don’t answer that...
The skeleton kit before the recently replaced one was horrid. Hands down the worst off all the ones I’ve worked with. I’ll take fragile over ugly.
The new barrow guard dont replace deathrattle right?
Barrow guard are some kind of elite/veteran skeleton warriors, and the death rattle are common guard. Right?
Yep - GW decided to call them a different name to fit with the more themed AoS lore; however they basically straight up replace.
The did the same with the new Barrow Riders and the new Dragon which replaces the previous "Zombie dragon".
Those old names are technically still part of the game for a bit, but basically are entirely replaced.
It's a curious way to update; but its been fairly smooth in general. About the only one you could complain about is the dragon as its on a larger base to the old zombie; but as its a base increase its not impossible to step up to a larger base with classic models.
In fact the only thing lacking with the book was the loss of the Terrorgeist and I'm sure that is just whilst GW gets a new one out and then it will either return as an option or you can take it on its own as a regiment of renown
Which was one of the most horrible kits I ever built. I don't know the regular skeletons before the cursed city generation but it feels hard to imagine that they were worse than the Grave Guard with their less than a millimetre wide ball joints.
Which was one of the most horrible kits I ever built. I don't know the regular skeletons before the cursed city generation but it feels hard to imagine that they were worse than the Grave Guard with their less than a millimetre wide ball joints.
Which was one of the most horrible kits I ever built. I don't know the regular skeletons before the cursed city generation but it feels hard to imagine that they were worse than the Grave Guard with their less than a millimetre wide ball joints.
The skeletons from that era are just as bad.
I must have select memory, as i remember neither of those kits being particularly difficult at all.
The VC skeletons and Grave Guard from 7/8th ed were great and a very significant improvement on the "classic" plastic skeletons that TK are presently lumbered with..
Mr_Rose wrote: The VC skeletons and Grave Guard from 7/8th ed were great and a very significant improvement on the "classic" plastic skeletons that TK are presently lumbered with..
While I like the Vampire Counts skeletons, they did become more fragile with thinner bones and spear shafts. They look better than their predecessors, but to people who prioritize sturdiness they may not have been all that great.
That said, the skeletons that followed Cursed City have even thinner bones. Especially the femurs are problematic.
It's a curious way to update; but its been fairly smooth in general. About the only one you could complain about is the dragon as its on a larger base to the old zombie; but as its a base increase its not impossible to step up to a larger base with classic models.
In fact the only thing lacking with the book was the loss of the Terrorgeist and I'm sure that is just whilst GW gets a new one out and then it will either return as an option or you can take it on its own as a regiment of renown
There is of course a not-crazy theory that doing this clears the board for them to return Vampire Counts to the Old World as there'd be no crossover.
I'm still in the camp that GW has enough armies in Old World as is that need updated models in a big way and that now Cathay and eventually Kisleve are going to come out with all new shiny models; the nostalgia for old ponybretonnian riders and such is going to start to wane.
Not to mention GW's desire to improve production by shifting all those model and hybrid models into plastics.
Well now I'm more interested in the old Citadel Wood MTO than anything else there! hopefully they won't be too expensive - just checked and they were £18 back in 2019 before they ceased making them.
I actually quite like the Sigmar temples for TOW; they’re flat topped and big enough for a regiment so they can make decent ersatz hills. Plus the orrery just looks neat.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I'd have rather they brought back some of the og scenery. I'd love to get a hold of some realmgates or an ophidian archway.
I remain baffled by some GW MTO choices but not making the realmgates available most of all given their import to the setting and that they sell for a damned fortune.
Nice to see the Sigmar platforms again. I'm not game myself as I haven't done anything with the ones I have yet.
I might have gone for something older, too. I seem to recall something like a floating fountain that I thought looked neat but never got around to buying at the time.
Finally! I can get Hobgoblins to round out my Chaos Dwarfs without breaking the bank trying to find the old metal ones.
They will look good on square bases. Though I do wish GW would stop with the blocky look when it comes to sculpting. The Chaos Dwarfs look fine, though maybe I just don't like the colour schemes they chose.
Feel like they should have just made Chaos Dwarfs for Old World. These aren't doing anything for me personally! These don't hold a candle to the FW sculpts.
To me the Chorfs faces look like the old pig faced orcs for D&D, not Chaos Dwarfs. And the details aren't great. Everything is blocky & chunky. While its the chosen design language, I don't care for it. I don't see fingernails on the topless Bull Centaurs, and the muscles all remind me of the plastic minotaurs, in the worst way.
In almost 25 years of Warhammer, I have never seriously* considered playing Dwarves of any stripe. I think the only Dwarf models I ever got were the Goblin Hewer (as a Regiment of Renown for my Empire army), and the one Dwarf skeleton musician that was part of the Cursed Company, and the Hellcannon for my Chaos Warriors.
...until now. I may actually get these guys.
*I toyed with doing Chaos Dwarves during the closing days of WHFB, but the army being all Forge World was a huge turn-off.
The Horns of Hashut armour design and details looked better than these. Honestly was expecting something like Iron Gollems crossed with Horns of Hashut and Legion of Azgorh.
This is very, very cartoony feeling.
Can only imagine the Chaos Dwarf community reactions.
I saw on TGA forum that one of the more reliable rumormongers mentioned that the Horns of Hashut (human Warcry warband) aren't actually part of this army. Did they confirm that during the stream? Kind of a wasted opportunity imo, if that's truly the case.
Not a fan of any of these paint jobs on the Helsmiths. I like the mini's but I'd love to see them in a throwback to their WHFB original red, or something a bit grimier. These dudes don't looks like they have ever been near anything industrial.
I don't know, the Strigoi is the only model from the whole preview I really find exciting.
the Chaos Dwarfs are, I don't know, boring isn't really the right word for it but by now there are so many of those out there that look much better that this isn't really filling anything
Big metal Golems with cannons as arms was done better by other games already and here they look more like designer forgot the lower part rather than something that can actually shoot
the infantry isn't doing anything special outside the pig/boar faces, the warmachine look like made for traitor guard in 40k and the big centerpiece model is not doing much here compared to other AoS center piece models
if they would have just used the old FW design made in plastic it wouldn't haven exciting either but looked better
nels1031 wrote: I saw on TGA forum that one of the more reliable rumormongers mentioned that the Horns of Hashut (human Warcry warband) aren't actually part of this army. Did they confirm that during the stream? Kind of a wasted opportunity imo, if that's truly the case.
They didn't get a mention but all the cooler aspects of Warcry seem to have been squatted so it's not surprising.
But... I have to be honest, I'm quite disappointed by the Chaos Dwarfs. I am waiting to see them painted differently, because I think the Skaven esque paint scheme is bad. But the angular nature just makes them seem quite low poly in a way, and there's not enough beards or hats.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: The Chaos Dwarfs look fine, though maybe I just don't like the colour schemes they chose.
I don't like the green glow. It always makes me think Skaven or Necron, and would have preferred a classic orange/red fiery effect. But then I'd just complain they looked too much like Fyreslayers.
Unfortunately not a fan of these reimagined chaos dwarfs. They had a strong visual identity that could've just been adapted for AoS, similar to how they treated Skaven.
The mad falconer, however, is fantastic. They are really nailing Flesh Eaters across the board.
Chaos dwarfs are an ugly embarrassing abomination.
The wizard guy is alright, everything else is hideous. It’s like they decided to pay the design team 2 times less, so we get 2 times less polygons in the 3d model and 2 times less of artistic design effort.
Just look at them!!! What a mess.
Bottom tier, even bellow bone dudes, kangaroo elves, fish elves. Just above fyreslayers. ORIGINAL old school chaos dwarfs look better.
I know it’s just plastic toys, but I am quite upset. Just how can a multi billionaire company produce such committee design slop, when they have already done way better quality product a decade and a half ago?
I'm disappointed by the chorfs - if they needed an AoS specific identity, I wish they had stayed close the design elements in the 'Horns of Hashut" warband for warcry - that would have been unique and interesting.
These look like they come from privateer press, or world of warcraft.
I do think some of it is due to the color scheme on the paint job.
Chaos dwarfs are an ugly embarrassing abomination.
The wizard guy is alright, everything else is hideous. It’s like they decided to pay the design team 2 times less, so we get 2 times less polygons in the 3d model and 2 times less of artistic design effort.
Just look at them!!! What a mess.
Bottom tear, even bellow bone dudes, kangaroo elves, fish elves. Just above fyreslayers. ORIGINAL old school chaos dwarfs look better.
I know it’s just plastic toys, but I am quite upset. Just how can a multi billionaire company produce such committee design slop, when they have already done way better quality product a decade and a half ago?
Considering people have been complaining that GW has been putting too much detail on models; its now the flipside that models which aren't super-heavy on tiny details now look bland; esp in large photos on the screen.
I'm willing to bet many might well find the new Chaos Dwarvs have more than enough detail when held in hand; when painted up differently and also when you actually have to paint them. Sometimes you really don't need abillion details to have great looking model.
Chaos dwarfs are an ugly embarrassing abomination.
The wizard guy is alright, everything else is hideous. It’s like they decided to pay the design team 2 times less, so we get 2 times less polygons in the 3d model and 2 times less of artistic design effort.
Just look at them!!! What a mess.
Bottom tear, even bellow bone dudes, kangaroo elves, fish elves. Just above fyreslayers. ORIGINAL old school chaos dwarfs look better.
I know it’s just plastic toys, but I am quite upset. Just how can a multi billionaire company produce such committee design slop, when they have already done way better quality product a decade and a half ago?
They aren't even really chaos dwarfs anymore. There isn't much in the way of chaos iconography on them. No chaos stars/arrows or typical chaos stuff you'd find on a chaos model. They're like the saturday morning cartoon version of what chorfs should be. Compare them to this total war artwork:
These actually have the chaos arrows and lightning bolts usually associated with this army. And why they gave the infantry spears and swords instead of axes is beyond me. If this army sells poorly GW might never attempt a proper chorf release again, at this point i'd rather they had remastered the old Legion of Azgorh resins and put those out for Old World.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: The Chaos Dwarfs look fine, though maybe I just don't like the colour schemes they chose.
I don't like the green glow. It always makes me think Skaven or Necron, and would have preferred a classic orange/red fiery effect. But then I'd just complain they looked too much like Fyreslayers.
That green is the only thing I don't like of the new range. I think painting that closer to the teal flames on the book art will do the trick though.
Honestly, the chaos dwarfs should have been a destruction faction (look, I know "chaos" is in the name, but they aren't called that in Age of Sigmar). Hashut is not a chaos god in this incarnation, hes part of the dwarven pantheon, but apparently a destructive (and beastly) part of it. Yes, they use daemons to fuel their tech I guess, but it sounds like the practice is destroying the daemons, or at least harming them, rather than the typical "lets let these things possess and warp our gak" approach utilzied by "proper" chaos factions.
Frankly, I prefer the Legion of Azgorh aesthetic. I do like how they reinterpreted the "big hats" look and made them less silly with these designs, I respect that, but like - they could have made the Legion of Azgorh look the Age of Sigmar thing and sent the big hats back to The Old World where the goofiness will be more appreciated by the fanbase.
Which brings me to my next point - I have no idea why the Legacy'd Chaos Dwarves in TOW if this is the direction they were going in for AoS (I mean, I know exactly why, but for the sake of argument lets pretend). They could have very easily put TOW Chaos Dwarves in the game using the Legion of Azgorh range and it would be distinct and separate from what they did with the Age of Sigmar range. Sure it would be expensive, but lots of us still have our Legion of Azgorh armies and since they are seemingly set on plastifying and updating everything eventually they could eventually rerelease the minis in plastic.
My impression is GW knows they have a limited budget for Old World in both money, slots and time. They couldn't just include every old faction because they'd be pre-loading the game for some factions to wait a VERY long time for updates. Basically taking them back to the "Oh its dead cause armies aren't getting new models" problem that plagued the game during the build up to the End Times.
Far better to keep the number of factions limited so that they can update them on a decent timeframe.
That nostalgic power would only work so long and then Gw would be sitting on a bunch of model ranges that wouldn't sell well; would generate loads of complaints about not being updated and so on. Heck even now TK players gripe about old Skeletons and Brets about tiny ponies.
As for them being in Chaos they are just the new Skaven faction. Chaos in all but name and intent but not quite part of the pantheon proper. Indeed its very fittingly grim dark that they are in Chaos and that they believe they are taming Chaos when in reality they are being warped, twisted and corrupted by it to the point where they are left only able to even trade or deal with other chaos forces; not forgetting many many factions in AoS aren't part of Order and are part of Chaos without realisation. All those warcry warbands were Slaves to Darkness but each group never believed they were worshipping one of the Four Chaos Gods
Love the look of the Helsmiths. They do feel very chorf to me. I don't need another half-baked Age of Sigmar army that I'll never play but who knows what my future holds lol.
Overread wrote: Considering people have been complaining that GW has been putting too much detail on models; its now the flipside that models which aren't super-heavy on tiny details now look bland; esp in large photos on the screen.
I'm willing to bet many might well find the new Chaos Dwarvs have more than enough detail when held in hand; when painted up differently and also when you actually have to paint them. Sometimes you really don't need abillion details to have great looking model.
I think we're more upset by how little these guys resemble the two clues we had - classic chaos dwarves, or the horns of hashut. These guys aren't even using the the now established hashut rune in their iconography.
As for them being in Chaos they are just the new Skaven faction.
You mean Beastmen. They fill much the same place in the "should be destruction but are chaos because of flimsy lore" niche with their focus on destroying and grinding down everything around them (including chaos itself, remember the beastmen lore is essentially that they are basically ignored by the chaos gods and thus free of its influence, and thus incidentally agents of chaos because they are free radicals in the system acting in a chaotic manner). Skaven, despite not having a "real" chaos god at their head are pretty chaotic and dont have the innate destructive tendencies of beastmen nor hashut followers.
chaos0xomega wrote: Honestly, the chaos dwarfs should have been a destruction faction (look, I know "chaos" is in the name, but they aren't called that in Age of Sigmar). Hashut is not a chaos god in this incarnation, hes part of the dwarven pantheon, but apparently a destructive (and beastly) part of it. Yes, they use daemons to fuel their tech I guess, but it sounds like the practice is destroying the daemons, or at least harming them, rather than the typical "lets let these things possess and warp our gak" approach utilzied by "proper" chaos factions.
Frankly, I prefer the Legion of Azgorh aesthetic. I do like how they reinterpreted the "big hats" look and made them less silly with these designs, I respect that, but like - they could have made the Legion of Azgorh look the Age of Sigmar thing and sent the big hats back to The Old World where the goofiness will be more appreciated by the fanbase.
Which brings me to my next point - I have no idea why the Legacy'd Chaos Dwarves in TOW if this is the direction they were going in for AoS (I mean, I know exactly why, but for the sake of argument lets pretend). They could have very easily put TOW Chaos Dwarves in the game using the Legion of Azgorh range and it would be distinct and separate from what they did with the Age of Sigmar range. Sure it would be expensive, but lots of us still have our Legion of Azgorh armies and since they are seemingly set on plastifying and updating everything eventually they could eventually rerelease the minis in plastic.
I'd guess because FW resin is more difficult to cast/produce in general and requires more maintenance so they have to be choosy with what they're producing with it - and entire army ranges are off the table?
Dunno, they've put a pretty significant amount of resin and metal kits into production to cover the other factions. Dont see what would be so impactful to them to have a faction that is entirely resin in the same way, especially if after 6-12 months they started re-releasing core units in plastic. Realistically you would only maybe 3 or 4 new plastic kits to get a significant portion of the chaos dwarf range into plastic and to a point where the plastic to non-plastic ratio for the faction was comparable to that of the other factions.
As for them being in Chaos they are just the new Skaven faction. Chaos in all but name and intent but not quite part of the pantheon proper. Indeed its very fittingly grim dark that they are in Chaos and that they believe they are taming Chaos when in reality they are being warped, twisted and corrupted by it to the point where they are left only able to even trade or deal with other chaos forces; not forgetting many many factions in AoS aren't part of Order and are part of Chaos without realisation. All those warcry warbands were Slaves to Darkness but each group never believed they were worshipping one of the Four Chaos Gods
I'm agree based on the description Destruction might have been a better fit but at this point, I'd rather they split the Alliances. Too many in order and Chaos is getting crowded too. Split out Skaven and HoH into a Chaos adjacent (Mayhem?) with IDK and DoK unto another (Be5rayers or Decievers).
Surely that'd be the point, to make them AOS army not just repeat of the old Fantasy designs? Anyway, spears always made a lot more sense for dwarfs than axes, especially if they fight in the open more than in tunnels.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: The Chaos Dwarfs look fine, though maybe I just don't like the colour schemes they chose.
I don't like the green glow. It always makes me think Skaven or Necron, and would have preferred a classic orange/red fiery effect. But then I'd just complain they looked too much like Fyreslayers.
That green is the only thing I don't like of the new range. I think painting that closer to the teal flames on the book art will do the trick though.
Mmm, that'd be pretty keen. I look forward to non-GW studio paintjobs on these guys and gals!
kodos wrote: the Chaos Dwarfs are, I don't know, boring isn't really the right word for it but by now there are so many of those out there that look much better that this isn't really filling anything
I think that, of all modern GW models, Chaos Dwarfs seem to exhibit most glaringly the difference between miniatures sculpted by passionate creatives because they're cool, and miniatures from a bullet point design brief by someone just grinding a job because some CEO decided to milk the next mothballed concept for nostalgia.
But... I have to be honest, I'm quite disappointed by the Chaos Dwarfs. I am waiting to see them painted differently, because I think the Skaven esque paint scheme is bad. But the angular nature just makes them seem quite low poly in a way, and there's not enough beards or hats.
The downside to having a mix of male and female dwarf warriors is that your BPS (beards per stunty) ratio drops significantly below expected levels.
Lord Damocles wrote: It looks like the textures on the Not-Great Taurus have failed to load in properly.
I actually like the bull a lot, especially the generic greenish one. The angular design and odd textures make me think it moves real jerkily, like a Ray Harryhousen creature.
I actually like the bull a lot, especially the generic greenish one. The angular design and odd textures make me think it moves real jerkily, like a Ray Harryhousen creature.
This sums it up nicely. I like that it looks like animated metal, not a mechanical construct, but an Art Deco statue sculpted by a master artisan and then brought to life through some profane magics. I love the old Bale Taurus, might go looking for one some day.
I agree overall though that there is just something off about the rest of the range, possibly just the paint scheme. The blocky designs are fine, they just need that extra layer of spikes to really bring them into the Chaos fold. Not nearly enough axes across the board either.
Thargrim wrote: They aren't even really chaos dwarfs anymore. There isn't much in the way of chaos iconography on them. No chaos stars/arrows or typical chaos stuff you'd find on a chaos model.
That's because they don't see themselves as a Chaos faction, they believe themselves to be an Order faction that just happens to use Daemon energy to power their stuff. Literally explained in the actual stream. They even went into Hashut is no longer a Chaos god, he's a Dwarven Ancestor god shunned by the others.
If anything it makes them even darker than in the past because now they think they are sane, normal, good natured dwarves who have the power and means to save the Mortal Realms.
That they've tamed the demonic powers; saved themselves and that they can bring salvation to the Realms through their industrial control over Demonic energies and demons.
They aren't just a "good faction chaos equivalent that knows they are pure chaos"; they are twisted.
They know that Sigmar is not the saviour; that he's probably holding back the restoration of the Mortal Realms. That the other "good" factions opposed to Chaos just have the wrong approach.
It's like how the Flesheater Courts aren't anything different from flesheater models we had in Old World; but now they are even more twisted and sinister because of their madness.
Thargrim wrote: They aren't even really chaos dwarfs anymore. There isn't much in the way of chaos iconography on them. No chaos stars/arrows or typical chaos stuff you'd find on a chaos model.
That's because they don't see themselves as a Chaos faction, they believe themselves to be an Order faction that just happens to use Daemon energy to power their stuff. Literally explained in the actual stream. They even went into Hashut is no longer a Chaos god, he's a Dwarven Ancestor god shunned by the others.
Ancestor god of beasts and nature who wasn't initially shunned so much as jealous of the others getting all the cool stuff and sort of self-exiled to reject and invert his appointed role. So instead of harmony and working with nature, he's all industry and subjugation. Except still animal themed.
Alpharius wrote: I was hoping it was the paint job - and it...kind of is?
Still there aren't as...exciting as I was hoping they'd be?
Anxiously awaiting the Lamassu - but sort of worried we aren't getting one?
I don't need my basic infantry to be exciting - heck I still use the Old World chaos warriors in AOS because I think they look better as wargaming pieces than the current warriors swinging all over the place.
To me the red works and it makes me think other bold colors will probably be fine too - a nice purple might be the way to go.
As far as more units I fully expect a wave 2 at some point.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, that actually looks great. What is it with AoS armies and the default colour scheme being the most boring possible?
Boring is inoffensive and designed to have mass appeal?
I suspect GW is also getting into trouble by having so many factions. I got the same out of the default Squat color scheme. Also Cities of Sigmar, if I remember my sentiment at the time correctly. It looks like GW wants to have distinct visual identities for its armies, which includes the default color scheme they assign them. An army that comes late has the problem that a lot of color combinations are already taken. Maybe people prefer red and gold/brass for their Chaos Dwarfs, but there's another Chaos faction that already uses it. So they end up with a different and perhaps lesser choice that they somehow have to make work, because all the good ones are already taken.
You wouldn't necessarily think that AoS is old enough to already be there, but starting out with an undue amount of mini-factions speeds up the process.
Sure 30 of those years the models were under another product brand and there was that couple of years at the start of AoS when everything was a total mess; but yeah its not a 10 year old game its a 40 year old game with a rebrand.
Rick Priestly made AoS 40 years ago, and just like Lukas could update his movies years later, now they finally can use the latest computer programs to get Chorfs right!
Sure 30 of those years the models were under another product brand and there was that couple of years at the start of AoS when everything was a total mess; but yeah its not a 10 year old game its a 40 year old game with a rebrand.
No.
Age of Sigmar is a very different - and, in my opinion, inferior - game than WHFB/Old World. If you want to go ahead and call Old World a 40-year-old game that took 10 years off then got a rebrand, I can accept that. Age of Sigmar may have some of the same characters, but it is fundamentally not the same game.
Thats kinda reductive. 40k 10th edition is about as different from 40k 3rd thru 7th edition (and even more radically different than 1st/2nd edition) as AoS is different from WHFB of yore. We have no issue seeing a 10 edition throughline and legacy there, but draw an arbitrary line in the sand with WHFB becoming AOS?
Fact of the matter is that AOS is a continuation of the narrative of WHFB and adopted and adapted WHFB concepts into its gameplay from the outset.
This is simply because GW still calls it Warhammer 40k and kept the Edition number going
People see RT different because it got a different name
If GW would have released 10th Edition 40k under a new name and everything staying the same, people would see it as a new game that is disconnected from previous Editions
with AoS, if it would have kept the name, Warhammer Fantasy Battles, people would see it as the same game with a new Edition, but because it got a re-branding it is a new game now
the amount of changes or anything else doesn't really matter here, just the branding
this is also why people only accept a new "Edition" if GW calls it that, while from the name alone every new print run of a rulebook is a new Edition no matter how big the changes are
chaos0xomega wrote: Thats kinda reductive. 40k 10th edition is about as different from 40k 3rd thru 7th edition (and even more radically different than 1st/2nd edition) as AoS is different from WHFB of yore. We have no issue seeing a 10 edition throughline and legacy there, but draw an arbitrary line in the sand with WHFB becoming AOS?
Fact of the matter is that AOS is a continuation of the narrative of WHFB and adopted and adapted WHFB concepts into its gameplay from the outset.
That's not even close to being true. AOS was such a break from WHFB rulewise and lorewise that if they hadnt kept some of the names, it would be barely be possible to make a connection between the two.
There was a pretty big difference between 7th and 8th edition of 40k, but it still feels like the same game/setting
Put it another way, if someone stopped playing WHFB during 8th edition, and you showed him a game of AOS, he probably would think its a completely unrelated game (bar if the game contained one of the few factions that are iconically WHFB and that barely changed like night goblins, Chaos, Skaven and the new Chorf).
If you'd do the same exercice with a player that stopped at 40k 7th edition and you showedhim a 10th edition game, he'd immediately recognise it as being 40k
Though, weirdly enough, it seems that they are trying to make it more similar to WHFB lately. It might only be my impression, but the latest release all seems much more related aesthetic wise to the old warhammer. See the chaos dwarves and the skaven which are pretty much identical to their old incarnations. In the first few years, it seems that GW was much more original in their concepts for their new factions. Which gave some good (KO, DK) and bad (SCE, Kangoroo Elves, Fyreslayer, bonereapers) results.
but main reason to recognize the game would be because the majority is still some version of Marines
people playing AoS with the remaining 8th Edition factions and people would recognize it as well
the main difference being that AoS has way more new factions and models compared to 40k, not because the rules are off similar design
kodos wrote: but main reason to recognize the game would be because the majority is still some version of Marines
people playing AoS with the remaining 8th Edition factions and people would recognize it as well
the main difference being that AoS has way more new factions and models compared to 40k, not because the rules are off similar design
Not at all
WHFB being a regiment based game was one of the big reason that made it warhammer. The change to a "skirmish" game is a drastic departure from it. And the lore is also completely different to WHFB for the most part. Hell, as a long time WHFB player which never got into AOS, i dont understand a thing about the setting bar for a few similarities it has with WHFB (mostly the chaos gods). I havent really been following 40k for the last few years, but the few times that i did, the setting still is familiar
There was no change in 40k that was as drastic (bar maybe the RT one)
so because you are more invested into the fantasy games you can spot the difference and therefore it is not the same for you
but because you did not pay a lot of attention to 40k everything looks still the same from the outside
and it would be similar for AoS, someone seeing the same Nagash model commanding skeletons would spot that they are on round bases standing base to base where before it was squares (the same way someone would spot that 40k now uses much larger bases than in the past) but without knowing the details it would still be familiar
You misunderstood what i meant. I was as involved into both settings in a certain point of time. Yet for numerous reasons, i havent paid a lot of attention to them in the last few years.
40k still seems familiar to me, while i cant barely make a thing out of AOS. Not trying to be insulting, but I wonder if you are old enough to have lived through the transition between AOS and WHFB, cause pretty much everyone at the time was acknowledging that AOS was pretty much a whole different game than WHFB.
I started Warhammer Fantasy with 5th and 40k with 4th Edition
and paused both systems for several years in between before I tried them again and decided they are not for me
I also tried AoS several times.
8th Edition Warhammer already felt different enough from 6th that the game wasn't for me
the big monsters and hero focus was very different to what we had before and by now I see more similarities between AoS and 8th Warhammer than between 6th and 8th
For 40k, 6/th7th was already a cut from the previous style and while with 8th it looked like going back to previous design space the current version is different again with a very different focus on what the game should look like
So overall there is no real consistency over 10 Edition and both games changed a lot in style and design with 40k having the advantage that there are poster boys that basically still look the same, something Warhammer Fantasy never had because there the actual poster boys are Chaos Warriors but you never use the bad guys for marketing
otherwise AoS would have a very recognizable model line over 30 years as well
show someone who played 5th/6th Edition Warhammer Fantasy an AoS Chaos Army and they are going to recognize that as the same
Ok guys I think a loooooooooooooooot of you need to step outside, touch some grass and get some solar radiation (in sensible moderation).
You're taking a very quick quip of a throw away comment mostly used to direct attention to the fact that AoS had a huge, mature and developed (if jumbled up messily at first) product line when it launched; in contrast to an entirely brand new game whcih might take 10 years to get to half the number of armies AoS supports today.
The real problem is AoS not beeing able to convince people its basicly the same setting.
We got skaven, lizardmen, chaos warriors, nightgoblins, vampirecounts and lots of classic stuff, but in the end Its just random locations floating in a psychedelic timescape for most people.
Anything goes and nothing matter.
If they had focus on establishing a fantasy world for us to recognise instead of a desperate focus on making sigmarines feel like a cool concept, people could probably see the setting beeing similar in another way.
Fayric wrote: The real problem is AoS not beeing able to convince people its basicly the same setting.
We got skaven, lizardmen, chaos warriors, nightgoblins, vampirecounts and lots of classic stuff, but in the end Its just random locations floating in a psychedelic timescape for most people.
Anything goes and nothing matter.
If they had focus on establishing a fantasy world for us to recognise instead of a desperate focus on making sigmarines feel like a cool concept, people could probably see the setting beeing similar in another way.
I agree - nothing matters in AoS because there are no stakes - the worlds are huge an undefined, realm gates and portals make travel trivial meaning geography really doesn't matter anyway, the there is a huge disparity in technological level.
AoS is basically he-man (and those early maps from the setting are rather blunt reminders of that) with space marines.
No one's going to care about AoS till the realms are made round as a set of true world, portals much, much more rare and honestly, you can keep the storm cast, but give sigmar and nagash the boot from godhood, and have them both on a quest to re-attain that status, and now you've got the making of a more compelling setting.
Overread wrote: You're taking a very quick quip of a throw away comment mostly used to direct attention to the fact that AoS had a huge, mature and developed (if jumbled up messily at first) product line when it launched; in contrast to an entirely brand new game whcih might take 10 years to get to half the number of armies AoS supports today.
Wrong.
Age of Sigmar launched as a miniatures line and had crappy rules with which to use them, and those bad rules were for miniatures that were just leftover from nuking WHFB (aside from the shiny new not-Marines). AoS didn't have a mature range of minis until just recently as it was still just using re-purposed WHFB minis (and still is, in a few cases, like Dark Elves and Ogres).
Overread wrote: You're taking a very quick quip of a throw away comment mostly used to direct attention to the fact that AoS had a huge, mature and developed (if jumbled up messily at first) product line when it launched; in contrast to an entirely brand new game whcih might take 10 years to get to half the number of armies AoS supports today.
Wrong.
Age of Sigmar launched as a miniatures line and had crappy rules with which to use them, and those bad rules were for miniatures that were just leftover from nuking WHFB (aside from the shiny new not-Marines). AoS didn't have a mature range of minis until just recently as it was still just using re-purposed WHFB minis (and still is, in a few cases, like Dark Elves and Ogres).
I'm sorry but no. AoS at the first day of its launch had multiple large armies, including the brand new Stormcast. You can't argue it any other way - the product line was already mature on day 1 of its existence.
Everything else is splitting hairs over the other dramas of the time - dropping armies; bad rules; splitting armies up. All of which are 100% valid concerns but take nothing away from the fact that AoS had a mature product line on its very first day of existing. The game, rules, branding, IP, lore is only 10 years old but the product line is 40. Yes many armies have had revised sculpts and updates and yes there are more new armies, new ideas and such. However that's exactly the same as Old World had over the years before AoS - many updated and newly added models to armies and multiple brand new armies.
AAAAAAAAAANYWAY BACK TO gushing over those new Chaos Dwarves and dreaming of new Terrorgiests and heck GW maybe a new Vargulf for the Soulblight
I think the abrupt death of WFB, the convoluted rebranding and start of AoS then the back tracking to The old world... in the process gatekeeping some races/factions just for one system and in the process killing full ranges of new AoS models only after 3 years shows me...
Theres absolutely no plan apart from doing something for the sake of sales. Fantasy setting was and is being fragmented every new release.
With that said its hard for anyone to collect and invest in a game setting that is as random as it gets.
chaos0xomega wrote: And yet random as it gets AoS has a larger following now than WHFB did back then or TOW has now.
I dont get the obsession with a new Terrorgheist, the current sculpt is fantastic.
Fantasy setting Im referring to is not only A0S... Its this mess GW created off WFB Dead... AoS only.... AoS and TOW is alive... Invalidating Ranges collections recent and old, gatekeeping and releasing Chaos dwarfs that look like they should be a TOW release or Cathay an AoS release...
I could care less if a multimillion company needs more money I care about long therm enjoyment of collections I invested serious time and plenty of money not being binned every few years.
The shoulder pads on the Chorfs bother me beyond reason. I mean, the guns and weapons and helmets bother me too, but the "this is a cosplay prop" feel is most pronounced in the shoulder armour.
I think it's the lack of riveting.
All in all, other than the Bull Centaurs, the whole range ended up kinda flat and uninteresting. I suppose much of it could be salvaged with some modelling effort, but I can't say I'm feeling much motivation to even try.
I could care less if a multimillion company needs more money I care about long therm enjoyment of collections I invested serious time and plenty of money not being binned every few years.
Speaking personally, I didn't need a "living" game(or really a game at all) to enjoy and grow my very large WHFB collection.
I could care less if a multimillion company needs more money I care about long therm enjoyment of collections I invested serious time and plenty of money not being binned every few years.
Speaking personally, I didn't need a "living" game(or really a game at all) to enjoy and grow my very large WHFB collection.
And thats pretty much the only way to be into it. Im not going to sell my discontinued forces I will just enjoy them as displaying hobby armies. Finish some incomplete factions but probably not expand. I did reconvert basing and broke factions to AoS.
Meaning that if you want keep on moving on and enjoying you are kind of forced to ditch the current "live" games.
In therms of narrative you are also kind of split, because AoS and WFB have more differences than not. Eventually you end up ditching that too.
I'm sorry but no. AoS at the first day of its launch had multiple large armies, including the brand new Stormcast. You can't argue it any other way - the product line was already mature on day 1 of its existence.
Huh? The first year AoS got stormcast and khornate chaos models (blades of khorne was not a thing, it was just random chaos models) and after a while the Fire Slayers showed up. The rest of the armies was the Fantasy Battle factions, just broken up in small thematic forces in free PDF downloads. Units from different FB armies was put together in small constellation. It was focused on small warbands, and you could basically mix any units (I bought some empire units, a bretonnian pegasus lord, and also had a giant just because I could). First edition there was not even a rulebook, the rules was one page in the back of a (horribly written) campaign book. The first year there was no points or guidelines as to assemble an army.
You actually got a bonus if you had a bigger moustash than your opponent.
Thinking about it, it was kind of fun, and I have not actually played the game since.
I'm sorry but no. AoS at the first day of its launch had multiple large armies, including the brand new Stormcast. You can't argue it any other way - the product line was already mature on day 1 of its existence.
Huh? The first year AoS got stormcast and khornate chaos models (blades of khorne was not a thing, it was just random chaos models) and after a while the Fire Slayers showed up. The rest of the armies was the Fantasy Battle factions, just broken up in small thematic forces in free PDF downloads. Units from different FB armies was put together in small constellation. It was focused on small warbands, and you could basically mix any units (I bought some empire units, a bretonnian pegasus lord, and also had a giant just because I could). First edition there was not even a rulebook, the rules was one page in the back of a (horribly written) campaign book. The first year there was no points or guidelines as to assemble an army.
You actually got a bonus if you had a bigger moustash than your opponent.
Thinking about it, it was kind of fun, and I have not actually played the game since.
This is flat-out wrong. I’ve got the original launch box, and the rulebook inside devotes a full page to Blades of the Blood God. Happy to post a photo if anyone’s curious.
GW’s transition from Fantasy Battles to Age of Sigmar wasn’t elegant, but they did make the attempt. Let’s be honest—it went from “too complicated” to “too simple,” mostly in reaction to player feedback at the time. Folks who barely played raged that the game was “dead,” but sales and new player interest were already tanking. The writing was on the wall.
We’ve all walked this argument into the ground, but let me be clear: repurposing models in a new system absolutely supports a mature product line. The Orruk and Grot kits in AOS are direct descendants from decades ago. I still remember my first AOS battle—my brother’s spider rider goblins shredded my Stormcast with their poison rules. Those little monsters were absurd!
I’m all in on the Helsmiths. Their aesthetic is killer, and I’ll be grabbing their Spearhead day one.
I'm very excited to get more Hobgrotz. Great looking kit.
The Chaos Dwarfs feel very...cartoony? Over designed? I can't quite put my finger on it, but I would go with the myriad of better done third party sculpts I've seen over the official ones at this point.
The chaos dwarves look like something out of world of warcraft. It would be at home with GWs aesthetic in both 40k and AoS 10 years ago, not so much today.
Obviously its subjective but I like these chaos dwarfs.
There's a slight... uncannyness, but I get that with basically all AoS stuff. Consider Kruleboyz to old Orcs, Cities of Sigmar to old Empire, the various Chaos stuff to old chaos etc. But I'm starting to get over it.
CragHack wrote: Your gang vs the guys she told you not to worry about... Just a proof modern day GW sculpting sucks ass.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Yup, wonderful example of sh*tflation.
Tamurkhan era sculpts (from real actual sculptors) vs what novice blender team dishes out now, based on committee design and ai references. Must be various teams working at GW as well, because some new plastic kits are stunning, others are like from a different company.
Pic of bull centaur character from the past to rub the salt into the wounds.
The issue for me with stuff like the Chorfs is that it's fantasy being inspired by fantasy. I prefer fantasy inspired by real world cultures and technologies because there's an authenticity you get with that that is near impossible to achieve with fantasy inspired by other fantasy.
Video games have a lot of the latter type of design and it's also everywhere in modern RPGs. It's a lot of artists and designers who've come up fully immersed in fantasy worlds and disconnected from the (sometimes quite distant) real world influences. That's when you end up with armour that doesn't look like armour that anyone would really wear and so on.
I've become pretty hostile to the style I have to say. I'm moving more and more back to a sort of Dark Ages aesthetic in my tastes - lots of chainmail, very little if any plate, and no guns at all. It was always my preferred fantasy anyway and to be honest no version of GW's Fantasy has ever really managed it apart from the LOTR stuff that they didn't design.
But the Chorfs shown here are a particularly pure example of a disconnected fantasy army. AoS overall has a lot of that, and I think it's actually fine to do a fantasy world that way - not everything has to be linked to real world cultures and it's certainly potentially more original to do your own thing, but it's MUCH harder and takes really gifted designers imo. This is fairly derivative and doesn't hit the mark.
Ah who cares, Warhmmer dwarves have always looked extremely cartoony. Like them or don't people will buy and collect them. If they don't fit your particular vision, there's more than a few alternative ranges that cater to all tastes.
I do think to some extent it's unfair to compare to FW kits that don't have to worry about undercuts and being castable in steel injection moulds.
But I do think that quite a few bits of the new range have quite old fashioned looking soft musculature which used to characterise plastics fifteen - twenty years ago but don't so much any more, and I don't really know how that wasn't fixed for a big new launch line.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Ah who cares, Warhmmer dwarves have always looked extremely cartoony. Like them or don't people will buy and collect them. If they don't fit your particular vision, there's more than a few alternative ranges that cater to all tastes.
I care... and in a opinion forum debating this new release looks, most probably will too.
People are free to voice their opinion... good or bad is equally important. Like it or not people will voice their opinions on this forum... If you want an echo chamber then follow your advice and find alternative media.
The new CDs infantry is pretty nice and can fit most settings with a proper paint job.
The BullsCentaurs are very different from the past, Im totally fine with that, but I think its more than the 3d vs hand sculpted medium that is setting these apart and more style choices... Examples look at the warcry massive Centaur... that beast is a wild and dark mini.
So it can be done.
Are the new bull centaurs as big as the Warhammer Forge ones? I never liked how big they are, the dwarf part is ogre-sized. The original bull centaurs were on cavalry bases.
It might also be that some of the simpler poses and designs are in response to people wanting simpler armies in AoS to build and play with from a structural point of view. So could be that one of the objectives with Chaos Dwarves was to make them a "simpler" army in terms of build design; painting coverage and gameplay rules.
You can get that in game design - GW often does this with stormcast/marines in giving them a solid playstyle; chunky models and so on which can all make them easier for newer players or simply those looking for less challenge.
Whilst at the same time having glass cannon armies; fiddly fragile armies and so on.
The Phazer wrote: I do think to some extent it's unfair to compare to FW kits that don't have to worry about undercuts and being castable in steel injection moulds.
But I do think that quite a few bits of the new range have quite old fashioned looking soft musculature which used to characterise plastics fifteen - twenty years ago but don't so much any more, and I don't really know how that wasn't fixed for a big new launch line.
They just look goofy. GW can definitely put out amazing looking models in plastic, like the new 40k Raven Guard hq, but this is like a hiccup against all the other silly/goofy/just plain bad crap they keep churning out. I think it's more of a matter of sculptors, their expertise and tools being used to make those models, where in this case majority of them are interns and few pros who know their stuff
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Ah who cares, Warhmmer dwarves have always looked extremely cartoony. Like them or don't people will buy and collect them. If they don't fit your particular vision, there's more than a few alternative ranges that cater to all tastes.
Yeah I don't expect GW to cater to me specifically at all, and I generally do look at alternative ranges and do my own thing. But this is a discussion forum where people discuss wargames, so I was just adding my point to the discussion. What do you think the forum is for?
Santtu wrote: Are the new bull centaurs as big as the Warhammer Forge ones? I never liked how big they are, the dwarf part is ogre-sized. The original bull centaurs were on cavalry bases.
Yes, the new plastics are as big or bigger than the FW versions. They showed a lineup of the actual models on the presenter desk and they're massive with an Ogre sized torso.
Also those FW ones have a lot of detail on them which is actually just really good painting colour variation. Strip the paint off and the amount of apparent detail would diminish. Still solid but the paint style is certainly doing them a lot of favours compared to the much more clear bright-bold-simple scheme the studio went for.
And we see this all the time - the GW studio for box-art aims for visually clear and simple schemes painted to a high standard. Schemes that are easier for people to emulate with lower skills of painting. Meanwhile once those models get into the hands of experts the styles and what potential they have changes a lot.
I see this time and time again where people dislike the official scheme but then utterly fall in love with alternatives even though the model is identical.
Da Boss wrote: The issue for me with stuff like the Chorfs is that it's fantasy being inspired by fantasy. I prefer fantasy inspired by real world cultures and technologies because there's an authenticity you get with that that is near impossible to achieve with fantasy inspired by other fantasy.
Video games have a lot of the latter type of design and it's also everywhere in modern RPGs. It's a lot of artists and designers who've come up fully immersed in fantasy worlds and disconnected from the (sometimes quite distant) real world influences. That's when you end up with armour that doesn't look like armour that anyone would really wear and so on.
I've become pretty hostile to the style I have to say. I'm moving more and more back to a sort of Dark Ages aesthetic in my tastes - lots of chainmail, very little if any plate, and no guns at all. It was always my preferred fantasy anyway and to be honest no version of GW's Fantasy has ever really managed it apart from the LOTR stuff that they didn't design.
But the Chorfs shown here are a particularly pure example of a disconnected fantasy army. AoS overall has a lot of that, and I think it's actually fine to do a fantasy world that way - not everything has to be linked to real world cultures and it's certainly potentially more original to do your own thing, but it's MUCH harder and takes really gifted designers imo. This is fairly derivative and doesn't hit the mark.
Agreed completely
Ancient GW designers were history freaks, read a lot of fantasy novels and were DD players. Current GW designers grew up playing WOW 16 hours a day and their whole cultural reference is limited to superhero movies.
I still think that GW still makes some great miniatures for the most part, but their miniatures and setting are a lot less interesting than it was before for me (bar for TOW)
While I am greatly pleased with the reissue of the Chaos Dwarves...despite their very, very toned down chapeaus...I was taken aback by how inorganic they look.
I get that they now use a plethora of golems, but even the Titan Forge Infernal Golem looked like it was alive (and mine will be seeing play very soon it seems).
Still, my favorite army has returned, and I will dutifully add these to the ever-growing forces of Hashut!
My sig line was "still waiting on Chaos Dwarves" for too long for me to not pick them up. Thankfully I like the new style. I just wish the studio scheme had the purples brighter and the warpfire green more teal like on the Battle Tome cover.
The warpfire green actually bothers me now that I think about it. Its too much like Skaven. If I pick any of these mini’s up, its going to be “normal’ flames
Fayric wrote: The real problem is AoS not beeing able to convince people its basicly the same setting.
We got skaven, lizardmen, chaos warriors, nightgoblins, vampirecounts and lots of classic stuff, but in the end Its just random locations floating in a psychedelic timescape for most people.
Anything goes and nothing matter.
If they had focus on establishing a fantasy world for us to recognise instead of a desperate focus on making sigmarines feel like a cool concept, people could probably see the setting beeing similar in another way.
I completely agree with this. The biggest weakness of AoS has always been how ephemral the setting feels. It all seems like a fever dream instead of a place.
The Phazer wrote: I do think to some extent it's unfair to compare to FW kits that don't have to worry about undercuts and being castable in steel injection moulds.
But I do think that quite a few bits of the new range have quite old fashioned looking soft musculature which used to characterise plastics fifteen - twenty years ago but don't so much any more, and I don't really know how that wasn't fixed for a big new launch line.
They just look goofy. GW can definitely put out amazing looking models in plastic, like the new 40k Raven Guard hq, but this is like a hiccup against all the other silly/goofy/just plain bad crap they keep churning out. I think it's more of a matter of sculptors, their expertise and tools being used to make those models, where in this case majority of them are interns and few pros who know their stuff
I think it's funny that you would offer the Raven Guard guy as an example of a good model right before complaining about other things being silly or goofy.
That RG model is the platonic ideal of "goofy" to me. He has every possible thing going on at all once (except for a smoke effect), in a weird pose, in a weird place.
I completely agree with this. The biggest weakness of AoS has always been how ephemral the setting feels. It all seems like a fever dream instead of a place.
I could never quite put my finger on it prior to this, but you've pretty much summed it up perfectly for me!
Gallahad wrote:I folded and ordered the sigmarite dais. I decided it just added too much visual interest to my stormvault terrain set to pass up.
Felt pretty silly paying that much for it, but getting bent over a barrel is the GW customer experience.
It really is an important part of the overall GW experience, isn't it?
Some lovely person on Reddit did their photoshop magic to show what the Helsmiths will look like in classic red and black and this is a big improvement.
That black Taurus (and the glossy red one in the previous pic) look like something I'd find in the LEGO aisle. They are not improvements upon the past.
I think I'll just be sticking with my vintage 4e(?) & FW stuff.
Fayric wrote: The real problem is AoS not beeing able to convince people its basicly the same setting.
We got skaven, lizardmen, chaos warriors, nightgoblins, vampirecounts and lots of classic stuff, but in the end Its just random locations floating in a psychedelic timescape for most people.
Anything goes and nothing matter.
If they had focus on establishing a fantasy world for us to recognise instead of a desperate focus on making sigmarines feel like a cool concept, people could probably see the setting beeing similar in another way.
I completely agree with this. The biggest weakness of AoS has always been how ephemral the setting feels. It all seems like a fever dream instead of a place.
That's one element, though I feel a proper artistic visionary could really lean into that and make something amazing out of it. There's bits of that here and there in some of the artwork but from my POV as a casual observer nothing that has really grabbed me.
But I also felt that for such a radical thing (blowing up the entire Old World) they really didn't do enough of a radical departure. The major players are mostly the same ones from the Old World in different guises, and I think that is EXTREMELY boring and lame. Any reference to the World That Was (blech) really makes me roll my eyes. Like you guys KILLED IT, you wrote a series of books blowing the ever living crap out of the setting, I though you were going to move on and show me something new, something really interesting and innovative. That's what I was interested in. But nah, it's still Archaon and Sigmar and Morathi and Ariel and the same old Chaos Gods and the Horned Rat and blah blah blah.
Warcry to me is the part of the game that did the most interesting stuff design wise - a post apocalyptic shattered reality wasteland populated by weird as hell chaos cults killing each other...yes! Holy crap!
But it seems like it didn't really go anywhere. Big sigh.
The strangest thing in the lore is that AoS is set thousands of years after the Mortal Realms were formed and near 500 years (I think it was around 400something) after the Age of Chaos during which most civilizations were smashed to bits.
The Old World should be such a distant thing to the peoples of the Mortal Realms that its basically like who invented fire for humanity today.
I think a big problem is that GW has focused on telling the AoS story through the GODS because they are from the Old World. The problem is when you couple gods to a lack of a dating system you get a story that feels hollowed out. You can't relate events very well besides if they happen near or around major disasters and even then you can't really tell how many years/months/decades/generations there are between them. So it can all feel like the story happens months apart; but then a quick quote will have someone recall that "ahh yes my great grandfather lived through the Necroquake" and suddenly you've got to rethink everything.
AoS's core problem is its got no leader. There's no big-wig in charge of the lore from a fundamental crafting and storytelling angle. At least that's how it feels. Yes they keep the lore on-point but no one is burning to tell a story.
Don't get me wrong I think the AoS setting itself is awesome in that "fever dream based on heavy metal album art" style. It's all there it just needs GW to have someone to really be the creative driving force behind it. Right now it feels too much managed by suits.
We gett little bits - Warcry - the Novella series - snippets of author's stories about characters that maybe spin into a mini series of stand alone. The talent is there but its bitty - fragmented over space and time that readers can't easily relate too in a way which lets them build a large narrative.
I agree with everything Overread said. They really need a chief editor to stitch and weave the various pieces of story together to make the setting feel more cohesive, and to direct the storytelling away from the gods and towards the mortals.
Scottywan82 wrote: Some lovely person on Reddit did their photoshop magic to show what the Helsmiths will look like in classic red and black and this is a big improvement.
The ps1 low poly armor model asthetic is a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them...
Oh, who am I kidding? It will sell out regardless.
Not used to being the one who thinks new kits look incredible, while everyone else hates them. I feel like I'm usually way more negative, and I absolutely love these lmao.
any model can be made into something great when the right person is doing something with it
but this doesn't really change the initial problems of said model and if the initial design isn't good, or what people expected, the average player won't go for it
what kind of surprises me is that despite there being Contrast paints as the main thing to get models painted for the average buyer, we get models with a lot of flat surfaces and or soft details where said paints don't work well
and a lot of people in the past (at least in central Europe) used cheap toys for their Chaos Dwarf Taurus, simply because nothing else was available, and if the new original one cannot compete with that
cole1114 wrote: Not used to being the one who thinks new kits look incredible, while everyone else hates them. I feel like I'm usually way more negative, and I absolutely love these lmao.
I was there back in the days of the Ossiarch Bonereapers going live and now people generally like them and the only problem is that htey don't have enough - darn it GW I want to see a flying dragon or a roc or something monstrous and constructed. Also centaur cavalry and animal pack when?!
cole1114 wrote: Not used to being the one who thinks new kits look incredible, while everyone else hates them. I feel like I'm usually way more negative, and I absolutely love these lmao.
"Everyone" is a bit of an exaggeration i think. Looking at anywhere else other than here, the response has mostly been very positive.
I really wasn't sure on these guys until I did take a look at the recolouring being done over on the various Chaos Dwarf forums. Seems I was right, it was just the paint job.
Might actually pick up a box or two of the Foot troops. Might make a good Immortals unit out of them to go with the 3000pts of old Big hat guys I have.
Warcry to me is the part of the game that did the most interesting stuff design wise - a post apocalyptic shattered reality wasteland populated by weird as hell chaos cults killing each other...yes! Holy crap!
But it seems like it didn't really go anywhere. Big sigh.
The very first lore of AOS 1st edition contained just that. Realm of Metal had metal animals, rivers of liquid silver and floating fortresses of magic etc...and everyone hated it and said its too weird and they can't relate, so they scaled back rather quickly and it went to being D&D but with skulls.
Warcry to me is the part of the game that did the most interesting stuff design wise - a post apocalyptic shattered reality wasteland populated by weird as hell chaos cults killing each other...yes! Holy crap!
But it seems like it didn't really go anywhere. Big sigh.
The very first lore of AOS 1st edition contained just that. Realm of Metal had metal animals, rivers of liquid silver and floating fortresses of magic etc...and everyone hated it and said its too weird and they can't relate, so they scaled back rather quickly and it went to being D&D but with skulls.
The only part I hated was the kind of "stormcast climb a mountain whilst under attack and then charge across a living volcano to have a fight and then invade a castle" kind of writing in the early Realmgates because they were just a touch too super-human.
Personally I loved the idea of metal beasts and such - however the problem GW has is that they threw that out there and then didn't throw out artwork showing that world to us. They didn't throw out stories based around farmers becoming warriors and heroes so we could see how society functions.
This is the problem with focusing on the gods as the core of the pushed narrative and on stories that tend to focus on mature warriors in war situations. We tend to get a skewed impression of the world where a lot of the function bits are left out. Now Old World could get away with that because it was based on super common fantasy tropes that were just twisted a bit here and there for flavour. Plus most of the world functions like the one we live in today - we can imagine serf farmers in Bretonnia without much hard work.
Mortal Realms side it becomes more tricky to imagine the common-man and how they just survive and thrive.
It's just a setting that needs someone in charge at the top with a burning passion and a good budget to really help it mature.
A lot of the novels focus on mortals, if that's what you want. The Dominion novel is all about common lowborn street urchins being thrust into positions of power and how they deal.
Platuan4th wrote: A lot of the novels focus on mortals, if that's what you want. The Dominion novel is all about common lowborn street urchins being thrust into positions of power and how they deal.
Yeah I've been through a few - the novella were great though right now I'm more in the vampire based ones.
But still I feel like there's gaps in the functionality of the world and how its conveyed to the reader.
I think it doesn't help that there's a good many stories set in places that we perhaps don't ever revisit again.
I know not literally every person hated it, but it was hated enough they backtracked it pretty quickly after the initial Realmgate Wars series was done. Elements of it are still there, but now basically they stuck to "center of the realm is almost normal, things get weird and elemental the further rimward you go". At least they kind of left it in place with the lumineth land-magic and CoS blood of the faithful stabilizing the chaos-tainted landscapes.
Platuan4th wrote: A lot of the novels focus on mortals, if that's what you want. The Dominion novel is all about common lowborn street urchins being thrust into positions of power and how they deal.
Yeah I've been through a few - the novella were great though right now I'm more in the vampire based ones.
But still I feel like there's gaps in the functionality of the world and how its conveyed to the reader.
I think it doesn't help that there's a good many stories set in places that we perhaps don't ever revisit again.
I think a big part of the problem is that the realms feel disconnected. We are rarely given a solid understanding about why or how events in Shyish might influents life in Ghyran, nor why someone who lives in Ghyran should care about them (or if they are even aware that Shyish exists). This is not the case with 40k, where we understand planets to be discrete finite entities that are connected to eachother in a more easily understood manner (both physically and societally) and what their importance and relevance to one another is.
With that also comes the issue that the lore only focuses on a small piece of any given realm. Like we have a map of the Great Parch and its environs, for example, but not for anything beyond that corner of the realm - and those maps aren't really political in nature. We dont understand really the disposition of forces or the different political structures that exist within them, we get some dots identifying a handful of cities from one faction or another and not much other context in between. It makes the maps meaningless and inconsequential as a storytelling aid and informing the reader how all the different parts of the narrative fit together and the geopolitical tissue that connects it all.
Its kind of like if you were telling a story set on earth to an alien that had never been there, and you give them a set of maps covering the american southwest, quebec, the amazon rainforest, the serengeti, scandinavia, and india, but nothing in between. You have no idea how these pieces of the puzzle fit together, what the relationships of these civilizations and polities are, how they interact (if at all) or even if they know eachother to exist, etc. You *could* tell that story, but its going to be one really confused alien.
Very much agreed. It doesn't help that the Age of Sigmar clearly already spans several hundred years and thus maps would be expected to change quite significantly over that period - but we've no real dates to know how they change and the insanely vast size of the realms means that even if we do get change its almost meaningless change.
There's perhaps a handful of super-major settlements but the rest can come and go with the wind.
GW made that work with 40K and the galaxy partly because they didn't need many datum points cause they had places like Earth and Mars to work with. Places people could relate to directly and comprehend.
Mortal Realms don't have that - there's no real sense of grounding in the setting. It's a shame because in many ways its got such potential to be a very FRESH fantasy realm full of amazing magics and energies and such .
GW just needs to slow the story down to focus on the mortals so we can get a sense of the politics. A sense that Skaven blasting a hole in one of the Realms really is a supermajor insanely world changing event. How it impacts the politics in that realm and others; how Stormcast falling and starting to crack is causing problems.
Platuan4th wrote: A lot of the novels focus on mortals, if that's what you want. The Dominion novel is all about common lowborn street urchins being thrust into positions of power and how they deal.
Yeah I've been through a few - the novella were great though right now I'm more in the vampire based ones.
But still I feel like there's gaps in the functionality of the world and how its conveyed to the reader.
I think it doesn't help that there's a good many stories set in places that we perhaps don't ever revisit again.
I think a big part of the problem is that the realms feel disconnected. We are rarely given a solid understanding about why or how events in Shyish might influents life in Ghyran, nor why someone who lives in Ghyran should care about them (or if they are even aware that Shyish exists). This is not the case with 40k, where we understand planets to be discrete finite entities that are connected to eachother in a more easily understood manner (both physically and societally) and what their importance and relevance to one another is.
With that also comes the issue that the lore only focuses on a small piece of any given realm. Like we have a map of the Great Parch and its environs, for example, but not for anything beyond that corner of the realm - and those maps aren't really political in nature. We dont understand really the disposition of forces or the different political structures that exist within them, we get some dots identifying a handful of cities from one faction or another and not much other context in between. It makes the maps meaningless and inconsequential as a storytelling aid and informing the reader how all the different parts of the narrative fit together and the geopolitical tissue that connects it all.
Its kind of like if you were telling a story set on earth to an alien that had never been there, and you give them a set of maps covering the american southwest, quebec, the amazon rainforest, the serengeti, scandinavia, and india, but nothing in between. You have no idea how these pieces of the puzzle fit together, what the relationships of these civilizations and polities are, how they interact (if at all) or even if they know eachother to exist, etc. You *could* tell that story, but it’s going to be one really confused alien.
Another part of the problem is that the Realms are simultaneously real, physical places and also Concepts tied to the local cosmology. Like the other realms have night and day because Hysh and Ulgu orbit each other, but people also live on Hysh and Ulgu. Than has to care about things happening with Shyish because Shyish is not just over there, it’s also the realm of the dead where things go when killed. Even if there are also people living there. If someone makes a barrier around the realm of fire that cuts it off from everywhere else somehow, no-one would be able to start a fire on any other realm. And so on.
Why I don’t get is why life and beasts don’t orbit each other like light and shadow.
Realm of Death does genuinely present a problem because in theory Nagash should just win. The number of the Dead outnumbers the living by a bonkers degree after even only a few generations. Even faster if populations are increasing. Even if Nagash doesn't have every undead-realm (which is the other confusing thing that Realm of Death is basically made up of thousands of mini-death realms)
So in theory Nagash just wins as he gets pretty much the bulk of souls. Sigmar might steal the best; Chaos might steal a bunch but Nagash gets everything. In theory his dead legions of skeletons should just wipe out everything
That’s because he didn’t read the fine print when he decided to become a god. Specifically, gods are shaped by their believers. So if the many heavens and hells he oversees all believe he’s their special boy hard enough then he can’t mess with that directly. And that includes any resurrection and reincarnation their belief allows plus giving them the opportunity to look down upon their descendants etc. which they can’t do if he kills them all.
Yeah, if he had all that power with no brakes then he wins eventually but he accidentally bound himself to the metaphysics of death rather than simply becoming an immortal despot like he wanted.
Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.
Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.
They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.
Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.
They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.
Anecdotal evidence and all that, but I always saw those Sigmar terrain pieces shelf warming the first time around. They didn't seem all that popular until they weren't available and this seems to prove that was all talk.
First, I was talking about the talk of how people wanted these not translating to sales, especially considering how long they sat around when they were regular stock. Second we know that they do an initial run for MTOs before it goes up and the only actual MTO is after burning through that stock. They can fully overproduce that initial run if there's not the demand to meet it.
The Sig Vaults are a weird one to bring back, I was able to get multiple of the Warcry bundle for that terrain at a discount. It sat around for ages, and it's not actually very fun terrain to play with.
Fayric wrote: There is no way a chaos dwarf would be able to climb those stairs, so it would be a safe island for models to mock the tiny angry warriors.
Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.
They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.
Anecdotal evidence and all that, but I always saw those Sigmar terrain pieces shelf warming the first time around. They didn't seem all that popular until they weren't available and this seems to prove that was all talk.
I remember a common complaint at the time to be that they were functionally just hills, which is something you could get for much cheaper elsewhere.
AoS terrain was never cheap, but I think the stormvault stuff also came at a point when GW increased terrain prices across the board, which made what was a niche product even less attractive. It was simply not a good combination.
Me, I like the look of them. But it took me forever to pull the trigger on the ones I bought, pretty much until after they were no longer in production. Luckily my online retailer of choice still hadn't sold the remaining stock.that had been sitting there forever.
Looks like a possible price hike on the HoH Boxset, they are currently £145.
The approximate retail value of the prize pool is £2100, USD$2709, AUS$4179, €2499. This value excludes delivery and sales tax, where applicable.
So 1 prize is £210 worth (approximately) but they've excluded sales tax in the T&Cs (for the UK that's VAT @20%) - first time I've seen that happen - a spearhead is £87.50 but it's £72.92 without VAT that puts the HoH set at £137.08 ex VAT or £164.49 with VAT - round that to £165 and they've added £20 to the current army set price.
Of course that's all speculative as they are being approximate and seem to be hiding the true price - it might be lower and I'm over thinking the tax thing but £122.50 (£210-£87.50) seems to low but then it is just a HoH spearhead plus a Battletome plus cards so maybe £125? - this being GW I'd prepare for the higher price point.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. They approximate for sake of ease and by giving it a nice round 2100, it makes it look like a nice value to people entering.
Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
chaos0xomega wrote: Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
Nighthaunt only happens if Nagash takes a personal affront to you/notices you. Otherwise there's a strong chance you'll end up in the afterlife your culture believes in.
chaos0xomega wrote: Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
Punishment rarely stops a crime happening. Consider how in the real world even the death penalty doesn't stop people performing crimes. Even in the modern day word where we have extensive forensics methods people still do things against the law.
Perhaps they consider the law unjust/unfair/stupid.
Perhaps they consider themselves above such judgement or beyond capture*
Or its a crime of impulse or altered mental state
Or they don't consider what they are doing to be an actual crime or criminal act.
There's a whole list of reasons why someone would do something illegal/immoral even if there is clear evidence that they would be caught and punished for such actions.
Then there's a matter of perspective too. One person might consider an act just; another unjust.
* after all there are billions of souls and only one Nagash and whilst he's a god he's not an omnipotent god. Indeed depending on the peoples, I think the impression of Gods in Mortal Realms is that they are gods in a very greek sense of being supremely powerful individuals rather than all seeing; all knowing. Even if Nagash is doing his darned best to get to that state. So many might well think that their little crimes just won't get noticed in the sea of other crimes; many far worse than anything they've done .
chaos0xomega wrote: Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
If the average AoS peasant sees a nighthaunt, chances are they'll be killed shortly thereafter, thus not having much time to rethink their path in life.
chaos0xomega wrote: Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
If they're even aware that the Nighthaunt are a thing, they almost certainly don't know the details behind behind the why. Warhammer is often told in a third-person omniscient narrative; even the evils of the world aren't typically used as bedtime stories to scare children within the setting.
Yeah, think about how many people actually encounter nighthaunt in person; it’s not a lot and they’re mostly divided into soldiers fighting an enemy on the field of battle and villagers being raided. Neither of those situations are exactly a good time to stop and chat about personal histories and motivations.
Never mind that the actual ghosts aren’t necessarily able to communicate, so does anyone living actually know that they are the sentient souls of the dead, or do they assume that Nagash or whoever conjures spectral beings out of magic and imagination for fun?
It’s not like Nagash has a weekly Cabalvision spot interviewing notable dead…
I think there's a difference between encountering the living dead and the nighthaunt
Nighthaunt are specifically the armed forces of the dead.
That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
And the dead seem to appear very variable - in some realms the dead just don't appear and you really only see the mortal living; in others you see some of the dead sometimes and in others the ghosts of the dead are in full force.
Overread wrote: That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
Most people don't like loss or fear of loss very much. No need to deal with that nonsense if mom and dad stick around forever, albeit a little more translucently.
Overread wrote: That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
Most people don't like loss or fear of loss very much. No need to deal with that nonsense if mom and dad stick around forever, albeit a little more translucently.
I also assumed that its pretty much like living in poverty, most people can't really afford to pop off to live some where nicer if they are born in the realm of death. For most people, almost all of the realms are going to be a life of hardship- struggle to grow food (that doesn't combust, grow teeth, get eaten, or walk off on its own), get raided, get mutated, or just go mad. We mostly see and hear about the lives of the well fed- the armies, the champions, the people that live in big cities and homes that are walled in.
I suspect that a good deal of folk that live in places like shyish are 'peasant' types that just got born into it and can't really afford to just pack up and move to a a 'nicer' sunny realm and retire. They live, they struggle, they do what they have to do get by, they become new nighthaunt. The cycle continues.
Overread wrote: That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
Most people don't like loss or fear of loss very much. No need to deal with that nonsense if mom and dad stick around forever, albeit a little more translucently.
I like to think it's more of a case of being like real world humans, i.e. sticking your flag in the ground no matter how horrible it is and going "this is mine now".
Overread wrote: That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
Most people don't like loss or fear of loss very much. No need to deal with that nonsense if mom and dad stick around forever, albeit a little more translucently.
I like to think it's more of a case of being like real world humans, i.e. sticking your flag in the ground no matter how horrible it is and going "this is mine now".
There's that. But as they say, why not combine business with pleasure?
Overread wrote: That said Shyish is a very very strange realm because you've got it fragmented into loads of mini-worlds all populated with the dead of that belief group. Yet also alongside them you've got the living (honestly I've never really understood why the living choose to remain or migrate or live in the realm of death - most of the other realms I can see a purpose/reason/desire but Death is an odd one).
Most people don't like loss or fear of loss very much. No need to deal with that nonsense if mom and dad stick around forever, albeit a little more translucently.
I like to think it's more of a case of being like real world humans, i.e. sticking your flag in the ground no matter how horrible it is and going "this is mine now".
There's that. But as they say, why not combine business with pleasure?
Business... WITH pleasure?
Why, have you met our lord and savior, Slaanesh?...
chaos0xomega wrote: Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?
Not really. It's just Nagash's decision what a bad or good life was.
Where once Dreadscythe Harridans were healers and nurturers, the Harridan Curse – dealt as a terrible reward by Nagash – reshapes them in death into something quite the opposite of what they once were. Where there were once healing hands, bonescythes grow; horrible reaping instruments meant for murder, borne by now-raging killers for whom the sight of blood is an inspiring vision spurring them on to further fury. While they retain memories of life, they cannot control their actions – each bears full witness to the atrocities they commit, yet can do nothing to halt.
Heck Nagash can even break you down and rebuild you into Ossiarchs. Your bones and soul ground down, filtered, the best parts extracted and used to create a new undead construct.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well, they ignore modifiers, every unit gets a better ward and bigger units get more health. Probably works out slightly better for them.
They also now only ignore negative modifiers, so you can use commands that buff armor saves.
Overread wrote: New animation today model previews for the next year probably tomorrow then
The models better be good.
The volume of animation was pathetic this year, and the "Watch people hobby" shows are not interesting to me.
Even the Loremaster videos are not what I am looking for.
They focus too much on the narrator when it should just be continuous relevant art dumps while they talk.
I am currently unsure if I will continue my sub.
I barely touch the Vault, I have a real library & a vast pdf collection.
Paying for the army builders has less draw since New Recruit exists, and I play way less than I used to.
I has felt a lot more empty on video content this year. I think its a battle for GW between having volume of lower animated quality stuff and having fewer higher quality ones.
That said whilst the animation was a bit "comicbook made into animation" I was always a big fan of the art and stories in Bolter and Chainsword - even if I'd argue they could have done more AoS stuff.
Honestly I wonder if GW needs to do what Vivsipop and others have done and lean into more merch for their animations to help then drive more income for animation budgets in general. That or they are investing heavily into more stuff to fuel Amazon once that gets going.
I wonder if the Ironguts will be a duel build with leadbealcher parts inside which could explain dropping the leadbelchers.
Frost Sabres and Yhetees are a bit of a shame to lose as a frost theme as they fit the warbeasts that they ride, but they are finecast along with a good few of the others being removed. So that makes a lot of sense as GW really want's that material gone even if it means those models are lost or coming back much later.
Surprised at the Tyrant and Great Mawpot as neither one is that old.
Honestly if that is all true its a pretty good release all told and will certainly bring a lot of the core of the army up to plastic stanards.
The real sad thing about the loss of the ice theme is that its basically another nail in the coffin of the Everwinter lore concept that made Beastclaw/Ogors interesting when they first relaunched into AoS.
Honestly, I think dropping the heavy ice theme is a good move for Ogors. They never really had a consistent visual identity with it — you’d have some models that were basically shirtless brutes, others completely covered in ice and furs, and then random splashes of frost magic on top. It always felt like two or three different aesthetics mashed together.
By pulling back from the ice gimmick, the range can settle into a more unified look. Ogors at their core are about being massive, brutal, hungry warriors — that’s a strong, cohesive theme in itself. Instead of trying to force the entire faction into a northern/frost aesthetic (which didn’t even match older sculpts), it makes sense to keep that vibe as a subfaction or cultural variation rather than the main identity.
This way, they can build a clearer, more flexible faction image that doesn’t clash every time you put different units on the table.
Honestly they've still got the Ice beast mounts - I suspect its less dropping ice and more that GW only had a limited resource pool and decided to update the very core models of the range this time around whilst having to drop the finecast.
Could be next time around we see the Ice Theme as a sub-theme refocused on.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yep, just like Lizardmen, Skaven, and Vampire Counts... oh wait...
Beastmen. They had an AoS-first hero miniature that got shunted over to square base-dom.
Beastmen were announced as a core faction of TOW that would be leaving AoS for the Old World before the game even released, whereas everything else being discussed was categorized as a "conveniently not relevant during the time period we've set the game in, will not receive ongoing support, will not feature in the game or ongoing background narrative, only releasing free rules for them for old times sake for the folks who have these armies sitting on the shelf but are completely banning them from use in tournaments and will not support or promote any tournaments or events which allow their use despite being cool with them in Horus Heresy" legacy faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GaroRobe wrote: A new tyrant seems weird, since we got one in that Bonereaper vs Ogor versus box.
No different than the Wight... King? Lord? whatever it was on the skeletal steed for Soulblight Gravelords. Think the sculpt was only kicking around for 2 years before they discontinued it.
I think this is probably because GW are using those cheaper short-term moulds for characters (or some characters). So it means they've more chance to say "actually lets make something new because the mould needs changing anyway" as opposed to running a harder tougher mould for many more years.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yep, just like Lizardmen, Skaven, and Vampire Counts... oh wait...
Beastmen. They had an AoS-first hero miniature that got shunted over to square base-dom.
Beastmen were announced as a core faction of TOW that would be leaving AoS for the Old World before the game even released, whereas everything else being discussed was categorized as a "conveniently not relevant during the time period we've set the game in, will not receive ongoing support, will not feature in the game or ongoing background narrative, only releasing free rules for them for old times sake for the folks who have these armies sitting on the shelf but are completely banning them from use in tournaments and will not support or promote any tournaments or events which allow their use despite being cool with them in Horus Heresy" legacy faction.
Lizardmen and Undead got a new model range without getting the old nodels ported over beastmen never got a range update and are moved as a whole
Ogres now getting a full range update makes them more like the Vampires and Lizards and unlikely to get their own Journal in TOW But time will tell and if they don't get one "now" it should be clear that legacy factions in TOW won't see more support this Edition
Im having such a hard time with that rumor, particularly the "vs" part. That implies a return of baftleboxes, but no way in hell gw is putting that much stuff into a box set. Even discounting that, between both ogors and this these are some massive range refreshes and updates, larger than most.
If Nurgle is a Warhammer Quest then it would be like Cursed City so there'd be an opponent for them on the other side. A good few of those would then be character or solo or limited run models and many might only be in the game short-term.
Also Nurgle isn't in a bad spot right now - it would be a tiny bit of a surprise to see GW go for them. At the same time though Nurgle clearly must sell well cause in 40K and AoS they generally do well wtih releases
Ogre update is chunky but honestly I would say well worth doing as they are one of the armies much in need of a range update in AoS.
I welcome new ogres if it means the models will have actual poses. Even more so if the 'Eavy Metal paintjob changes to actual skin color instead of whatever they introduced with Ogre Kingdoms.
I'm still partial to the older ogre look from before Ogre Kingdoms came out, so it'll take some work to excite me.
Same poster on TGA that posted the above Ogor rumors also posted:
But since the damage is done, let me just publish one last rumour ?
Cities of Sigmar VS Maggotkin of Nurgle
Festus(Monster, so fxxking huge)
Unique Nurgle Daemon Prince
Pestigor Shaman
Realmgore Ritualist but Nurgle
Pestigors
Bloodreavers but Nurgle
Blood Warriors but Nurgle
Skullcrushers but Nurgle
Rockguts Troggoths but Nurgle
Refesh Putrid Blightkings
All these things have Heavy Plate Armour, far thicker than Chaos Chosen
And more sexy heavy armour guys
(Yes, the Newest AOS Nurgle style is fxxking Heavy Armour Warriors)
If you guys are familiar with Blades of Khorne or Slaves to Darkness, you will immediately understand what I mean
Not sure I’m buying any of it, but I’m cynical of any rumor that doesn’t include pics.
Not sure this makes the idea more or less likely, but in 40k Death Guard kind of monopolized the bulky, heavy armor look among Chaos Marines with Mk.III armor for Plague Marines, the use of Cataphractii armor, and a general tall and bulky appearance.
I could see AoS Nurgle going the same way to emphasize the slow and hard to kill nature Nurglites usually have.
Lord Damocles wrote: I wonder if lots of women will start playing Ogors now that there will be more female representation?
Hardly anyone will even know of the female models. The fake beards are too convincing.
chaos0xomega wrote: Im having such a hard time with that rumor, particularly the "vs" part. That implies a return of baftleboxes, but no way in hell gw is putting that much stuff into a box set. Even discounting that, between both ogors and this these are some massive range refreshes and updates, larger than most.
I took that to mean Warhammer Quest's theme is Cities heroes versus an assortment of Nurgle enemies, with a heavy release for Nurgle in AoS to tie in with it similar to how vampires got stuff alongside Cursed City. Or not really alongside Cursed City, because you know...
I would be surprised if it's next week's announcement. It's 40K main this week and then it's usually a sub-game week and then main again. So i'd estimate middle September.
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