AoS N&R (Rumor Dump p100, Army sets p106, WHQ:Darkwater + Maggotkin p111)

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**Overread**

Very much agreed. It doesn't help that the Age of Sigmar clearly already spans several hundred years and thus maps would be expected to change quite significantly over that period - but we've no real dates to know how they change and the insanely vast size of the realms means that even if we do get change its almost meaningless change.

There's perhaps a handful of super-major settlements but the rest can come and go with the wind.

GW made that work with 40K and the galaxy partly because they didn't need many datum points cause they had places like Earth and Mars to work with. Places people could relate to directly and comprehend.

Mortal Realms don't have that - there's no real sense of grounding in the setting. It's a shame because in many ways its got such potential to be a very FRESH fantasy realm full of amazing magics and energies and such .

GW just needs to slow the story down to focus on the mortals so we can get a sense of the politics. A sense that Skaven blasting a hole in one of the Realms really is a supermajor insanely world changing event. How it impacts the politics in that realm and others; how Stormcast falling and starting to crack is causing problems.

**Mr_Rose**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Overread wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
A lot of the novels focus on mortals, if that's what you want. The Dominion novel is all about common lowborn street urchins being thrust into positions of power and how they deal.

Yeah I've been through a few - the novella were great though right now I'm more in the vampire based ones.
But still I feel like there's gaps in the functionality of the world and how its conveyed to the reader.

I think it doesn't help that there's a good many stories set in places that we perhaps don't ever revisit again.

I think a big part of the problem is that the realms feel disconnected. We are rarely given a solid understanding about why or how events in Shyish might influents life in Ghyran, nor why someone who lives in Ghyran should care about them (or if they are even aware that Shyish exists). This is not the case with 40k, where we understand planets to be discrete finite entities that are connected to eachother in a more easily understood manner (both physically and societally) and what their importance and relevance to one another is.

With that also comes the issue that the lore only focuses on a small piece of any given realm. Like we have a map of the Great Parch and its environs, for example, but not for anything beyond that corner of the realm - and those maps aren't really political in nature. We dont understand really the disposition of forces or the different political structures that exist within them, we get some dots identifying a handful of cities from one faction or another and not much other context in between. It makes the maps meaningless and inconsequential as a storytelling aid and informing the reader how all the different parts of the narrative fit together and the geopolitical tissue that connects it all.

Its kind of like if you were telling a story set on earth to an alien that had never been there, and you give them a set of maps covering the american southwest, quebec, the amazon rainforest, the serengeti, scandinavia, and india, but nothing in between. You have no idea how these pieces of the puzzle fit together, what the relationships of these civilizations and polities are, how they interact (if at all) or even if they know eachother to exist, etc. You *could* tell that story, but it’s going to be one really confused alien.

Another part of the problem is that the Realms are simultaneously real, physical places and also Concepts tied to the local cosmology. Like the other realms have night and day because Hysh and Ulgu orbit each other, but people also live on Hysh and Ulgu. Than has to care about things happening with Shyish because Shyish is not just over there, it’s also the realm of the dead where things go when killed. Even if there are also people living there. If someone makes a barrier around the realm of fire that cuts it off from everywhere else somehow, no-one would be able to start a fire on any other realm. And so on.
Why I don’t get is why life and beasts don’t orbit each other like light and shadow.

**Overread**

Realm of Death does genuinely present a problem because in theory Nagash should just win. The number of the Dead outnumbers the living by a bonkers degree after even only a few generations. Even faster if populations are increasing. Even if Nagash doesn't have every undead-realm (which is the other confusing thing that Realm of Death is basically made up of thousands of mini-death realms)

So in theory Nagash just wins as he gets pretty much the bulk of souls. Sigmar might steal the best; Chaos might steal a bunch but Nagash gets everything. In theory his dead legions of skeletons should just wipe out everything

**Mr_Rose**

That’s because he didn’t read the fine print when he decided to become a god. Specifically, gods are shaped by their believers. So if the many heavens and hells he oversees all believe he’s their special boy hard enough then he can’t mess with that directly. And that includes any resurrection and reincarnation their belief allows plus giving them the opportunity to look down upon their descendants etc. which they can’t do if he kills them all.
Yeah, if he had all that power with no brakes then he wins eventually but he accidentally bound himself to the metaphysics of death rather than simply becoming an immortal despot like he wanted.

**ingtaer**

None of which is news so perhaps you could take it to a different thread.

**Geifer**

Reminder article that the stormvault terrain made to order ends in less than three days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bFtoXcEa/were-the-stormvaults-doomed-to-fail-ahead-of-loremasters-we-have-a-few-thoughts

Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.

**Shakalooloo**

Geifer wrote:
Reminder article that the stormvault terrain made to order ends in less than three days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bFtoXcEa/were-the-stormvaults-doomed-to-fail-ahead-of-loremasters-we-have-a-few-thoughts

Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.

They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Feels more like a filler article for a very dull week of articles.

**Platuan4th**

Shakalooloo wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Reminder article that the stormvault terrain made to order ends in less than three days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bFtoXcEa/were-the-stormvaults-doomed-to-fail-ahead-of-loremasters-we-have-a-few-thoughts

Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.

They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.

Anecdotal evidence and all that, but I always saw those Sigmar terrain pieces shelf warming the first time around. They didn't seem all that popular until they weren't available and this seems to prove that was all talk.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

If they’re made to order? How do you overproduce your stock?

**Platuan4th**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If they’re made to order? How do you overproduce your stock?

First, I was talking about the talk of how people wanted these not translating to sales, especially considering how long they sat around when they were regular stock. Second we know that they do an initial run for MTOs before it goes up and the only actual MTO is after burning through that stock. They can fully overproduce that initial run if there's not the demand to meet it.

**Prometheum5**

The Sig Vaults are a weird one to bring back, I was able to get multiple of the Warcry bundle for that terrain at a discount. It sat around for ages, and it's not actually very fun terrain to play with.

**Fayric**

There is no way a chaos dwarf would be able to climb those stairs, so it would be a safe island for models to mock the tiny angry warriors.

**nels1031**

Fayric wrote:
There is no way a chaos dwarf would be able to climb those stairs, so it would be a safe island for models to mock the tiny angry warriors.

That's why the Chaos Dwarfs built artillery.

**Geifer**

Platuan4th wrote:
Shakalooloo wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Reminder article that the stormvault terrain made to order ends in less than three days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bFtoXcEa/were-the-stormvaults-doomed-to-fail-ahead-of-loremasters-we-have-a-few-thoughts

Warhammer Community wrote:But be quick about it – the mystifying energies of the Penumbral Engines will obscure the Stormvaults by 8am BST on Monday 28th July.

They haven't done that for any previous MTO, so I guess this one hasn't been too popular.

Anecdotal evidence and all that, but I always saw those Sigmar terrain pieces shelf warming the first time around. They didn't seem all that popular until they weren't available and this seems to prove that was all talk.

I remember a common complaint at the time to be that they were functionally just hills, which is something you could get for much cheaper elsewhere.

AoS terrain was never cheap, but I think the stormvault stuff also came at a point when GW increased terrain prices across the board, which made what was a niche product even less attractive. It was simply not a good combination.

Me, I like the look of them. But it took me forever to pull the trigger on the ones I bought, pretty much until after they were no longer in production. Luckily my online retailer of choice still hadn't sold the remaining stock.that had been sitting there forever.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Don't suppose anyone who does 3d printing knows where this comes from? I need it.

**Jammer87**

That is gorgeous. The artist that did that did an absolutely amazing job.

**DaveC**

I believe it's one off piece sculpted by Alejandro Muñoz (4lex_0z) and painted by Tamer Widerspan (the.meth.of.cooking.art).

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKOzlPsHKUA/

**Inquisitor Gideon**

One off? God damn it..thanks Dave.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Win a Hashut box and a Spearhead:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gqauflsb/celebrate-10-years-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-and-win-some-helsmiths-of-hashut/

**DaveC**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Win a Hashut box and a Spearhead:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gqauflsb/celebrate-10-years-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-and-win-some-helsmiths-of-hashut/

Looks like a possible price hike on the HoH Boxset, they are currently £145.

The approximate retail value of the prize pool is £2100, USD$2709, AUS$4179, €2499. This value excludes delivery and sales tax, where applicable.

So 1 prize is £210 worth (approximately) but they've excluded sales tax in the T&Cs (for the UK that's VAT @20%) - first time I've seen that happen - a spearhead is £87.50 but it's £72.92 without VAT that puts the HoH set at £137.08 ex VAT or £164.49 with VAT - round that to £165 and they've added £20 to the current army set price.

Of course that's all speculative as they are being approximate and seem to be hiding the true price - it might be lower and I'm over thinking the tax thing but £122.50 (£210-£87.50) seems to low but then it is just a HoH spearhead plus a Battletome plus cards so maybe £125? - this being GW I'd prepare for the higher price point.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

I wouldn't worry about that too much. They approximate for sake of ease and by giving it a nice round 2100, it makes it look like a nice value to people entering.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

FEC's and Nighthaunt next week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rqs5cgwb/sunday-preview-ghouls-and-gheists/

And a rather fine looking Abraxia special ed which i don't think was seen before.

**chaos0xomega**

Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

If they ever find out why a given Nighthaunt is the way it is.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?

Nighthaunt only happens if Nagash takes a personal affront to you/notices you. Otherwise there's a strong chance you'll end up in the afterlife your culture believes in.

**Overread**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?

Punishment rarely stops a crime happening. Consider how in the real world even the death penalty doesn't stop people performing crimes. Even in the modern day word where we have extensive forensics methods people still do things against the law.

Perhaps they consider the law unjust/unfair/stupid.
Perhaps they consider themselves above such judgement or beyond capture*
Or its a crime of impulse or altered mental state
Or they don't consider what they are doing to be an actual crime or criminal act.

There's a whole list of reasons why someone would do something illegal/immoral even if there is clear evidence that they would be caught and punished for such actions.

Then there's a matter of perspective too. One person might consider an act just; another unjust.

* after all there are billions of souls and only one Nagash and whilst he's a god he's not an omnipotent god. Indeed depending on the peoples, I think the impression of Gods in Mortal Realms is that they are gods in a very greek sense of being supremely powerful individuals rather than all seeing; all knowing. Even if Nagash is doing his darned best to get to that state. So many might well think that their little crimes just won't get noticed in the sea of other crimes; many far worse than anything they've done .

**Shakalooloo**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?

If the average AoS peasant sees a nighthaunt, chances are they'll be killed shortly thereafter, thus not having much time to rethink their path in life.

**BorderCountess**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Showerthought: when the nighthaunt are an actual thing and people can see the eternal punishment and damnation in store for them in the afterlife as a consequence for their transgressions and crimes, wouldnt that be strong motivation for most to avoid committing crimes or leading amoral/sinful lives?

If they're even aware that the Nighthaunt are a thing, they almost certainly don't know the details behind behind the why. Warhammer is often told in a third-person omniscient narrative; even the evils of the world aren't typically used as bedtime stories to scare children within the setting.

**Mr_Rose**

Yeah, think about how many people actually encounter nighthaunt in person; it’s not a lot and they’re mostly divided into soldiers fighting an enemy on the field of battle and villagers being raided. Neither of those situations are exactly a good time to stop and chat about personal histories and motivations.
Never mind that the actual ghosts aren’t necessarily able to communicate, so does anyone living actually know that they are the sentient souls of the dead, or do they assume that Nagash or whoever conjures spectral beings out of magic and imagination for fun?

It’s not like Nagash has a weekly Cabalvision spot interviewing notable dead…

**MajorWesJanson**

Maybe an Underworlds warband for Nagash's Witnesses?