Hi,
I tried to gather all rules people gathered on Warseer, BolS, Heresy Online and 40k-Online from browsing through the Codex at GD UK. Inaccuracies and incompleteness not avoidable. I try to update this as time allows. Here we go. Last changes coloured dark red.

General Remarks/Rules
3 kind of armies with this book: Kabalyte, Wych Cult and Haemunculus army. But units are strong enough to make most combinations competitive as well. No point costs yet, as the Codex only had the main entry pages. But preview copies of the Codex should be instore in 2-3 weeks.

Universial rules
Night vision rule army wide (= acute senses?)
Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3. Even better, characters and units combine pain tokens. So a unit with one and a character with one would both count as having 2 if they joined. And Haemonuclus and a couple of other things come with one automatically.
Combat drugs: One roll for all unit with combat drugs before the game (all get the same).
Shadow Field in, 12“ assault not.
Dark Lances are still AP2 and can only be selected for 10 strong warrior squads. Splinter rifles are poisoned strength X that always wound on a 4+, Splinter cannons can fire assault 4 or heavy 6.
3-5 new units ,no old ones dropped. New units seem to be: New Archon bodyguard, new man-sized Haemunculi construct, new beast for beastmaster, Venom transport and something else.
Splinter weaponry makes a wound in a 4+ (normal poison weapon).
Dark Matter spam is gone with a more realistic allocation of heavy/special weapons mainly based on squad size. Similarly for reavers.
Web portals are still in. Archons or Haemunculi (dieembarked!) drops it in the shooting phase. It then acts more or less like a board edge that you can bring reserves on. The WWP is indestructible once it's down...and in a change, cannot be used to bring on vehicles. Also, if you have a WWP you can always put things in reserves even if the mission doesn't allow.
Disintegrators are no longer plasma cannons, they are S5 AP2 Heavy 3.
terrorfex/horrorfex grenade launchers are out.
DE seem to no longer have a rule saying they are always the attackers in scenarios with an attacker and defender.
No psykers in the army except Harlequin Shadowseer (who is not a Dark Eldar)

HQ
8-9 Special characters, including all current one's except Kruellagh and not including Arhra.
No jetbike or skyboard option for non-SC HQ, but several ID weapons.


Asdrubal Vect
Even more expensive but hard hitting , costing about as much as Mephiston (Dais not compulsory).
Dais is AV 13 13 13 with three Dark Lances. He seizes the initiative on a 4+.

Lady Malys
His Ex-Wife.
Immune to psychic powers and passes this ability onto any unit she joins.
She allows to redeploy D3 units after deployment...including placing these units back into reserve.

Lelith Hesperax
4++ save, 3++ in combat. S3. Her hair counts as a shardnet + impaler. Her knives are power weapons. She doesn't use combat drugs, as she is skilled enough With Weapon Skill 9 and four attacks which ignore armour saves, plus an extra one for each point her weapon skill is higher than her foe's, Lelith can murder entire squads.

Drazhar
Eternal Warrior and rules/stats similar to Phoenix Lords.

Urien Rakarth
Master Haemunculus.
Gives out d3 free pain tokens at the start of the game, which must go to wrack or grotesque units,
also regains a wound at the start of each of his turns as his flesh re-knits itself.
He can make the small constructs troops, and he can give grotesques S6 instead of their usual S5 for 5 points each.

Kheradruakh, the Decapitator
mandrake champion, still with 4 arms.
Always starts in reserve, player can place him anywhere without a roll but at least 1" or 2" away from enemy units.

Duke Sliscus the Serpent
a corsair captain- nasty counterpart to Yriel who isn't that great a fighter but gives bonuses to the rest of your army.
Concept wise he is David Bowie in space, a really glam rocker dude.
Can confer 3+ Poisoned onto one unit's shooting attacks. Also, he is the Dark Eldar character who tore out Lukas The Trickster's heart.
Ability to give you 2 rolls on the combat drugs chart, picking the result you want.

Baron Sathonyx
has a skyboard
Makes Hellions troops (Hellions are not part of the Wych cult anymore but something independent)
Special skyboard gives him +2 str on the charge (so +3 with his hellglaive) but no power weapon or combat drugs.
Makes pulling enemy IC's out of units virtually guarenteed. He also shields the unit from fire very effectively if there's decent cover around.

Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 BS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.
Can have bodyguard retinue called 'Court of the Archon' which is a retinue like an inquisitors.
The Court Of The Archon is the Archon's new bodyguard option. It is somewhat inspired by Greek mythology. Options include a retinue member which grants 2+ Poisoned to the entire retinue. This option is unbelievably cheap for what it does. Other options include Ur-Ghuls (which had FNP) and Medusae (which have an 'eye laser' ranged attack).
He can take different numbers of 4 different types of guards. ie. he can take some of one type and a few of another etc. (I would recommend keeping it down to 10 members so they can ride in the archon's pimpin' raider).
Medusae- ranged eye laser style weapon (edit: the background for these are pretty cool; they're basically brains-on-stalks that possess hosts for them to leech off their emotions)
Ur-Ghuls- furious charge, feel no pain cc monsters with i5 and 3 s4 attacks base
Lhameans- poison masters
Sslyths- 2 wound snake-like mercenaries armed with shardcarbine, splinter pistol and cc weapon (they have 4 arms). also have FnP
1-2 lhameans
1-2 medusae
1-3 sslyth (these are not cheap, above double a marines cost)
1-5 ur-ghuls
so you NEED to take at least one of each
To make things a bit difficult, ruleswise it is not a retinue, as the Archon can be singled out in a cc attack.

Wych Lord (Succubus)
as archon but +1 WS, I and -1 BS, LD, sv
wargear is minimal, mainly wych weapons and other combat gear, nothing too special. comes with combat drugs as standard

Haemunculus
FNP
Wargear:
The crucible of malediction: all psykers within 3d6 take a ld test or get removed from play (one use only).
Archangel of pain: all enemies within 3d6" failing a LD test get WS/I1 until end of turn (combine that with a Lelith attack ).

Haemunculus Ancient
(quite different from Haemunculus)


Troops


Warriors (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Kabalite warrior, Synabite, Kabalite Trueborn, Dracon)
Stats as before. 9 points. Splinter Rifle rapid fire, no plasma grenades or Splinter pistols.
Dracons have lost -1WS, -1BS, and -1I but gained +1A. Sybarite are same as before with +1LD. Trueborn are same as Sybarites. Kabarite warriors are just that, warriors.
Unit Type: Infantry (5-20)
WARGEAR: Splinter Rifle, Kabalite Armour
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power From Pain.
Fluff text says Trueborn escort their Archons to battle, so these guys can probably be HQ Retinues. Dracons are Trueborn veterans.


Wyches (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)
]Wych are same as before, Hekatrix and Bloodbrides are same as Wych Succubus with +1LD, Syrens are same as Hekatrix with +1A.
Unit Type: Infantry
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain.
WARGEAR: Close combat weapon, combat drugs, plasma grenades, splinter pistol, wychsuit.
6+ armour save, 4+ inv against cc attacks. Upgrades with special close combat weapons.
Their weapon options are:
Shardnet and Impaler: -1A to enemy in combat and base contact (to a minimum of 1),
Hydra Gauntlets: +d6 attacks for 2 CCWS rather than +1A (Yes - really!) or
Chain-of-blades weapon gives +2A, as well as re-rolls to hit and to wound.


Elite


Incubi(Upgrade: Klavex)
T3, S3, WS5, 2 attacks but lose Tormentor Helm, with a 3+ save, can be upgraded with an Exarch (one option „preferred enemy“).
Have Klaives (2 handed powerweapon +1 strength). The klaive gives the unit to roll again (only one time) the 6 to wound.
Their squad leader (WS5, 3 Attacks) has a weapon that either gives him +2 S or +2 attacks (2 single handed weapons), and gives each member of the squad another attack on a roll of 6 to hit (no limit)
Have hand flamers like BA. Can chose an IC as preferred enemy. Klaivex has some more rules, one similar to Old One eyes but not as good as blood angels blood talons.
WARGEAR: Incubus warsuit
Klaive: 2H weapon that gives +1S
Demiklaives: Power Weapons, +2A or +2S chose each round before making attacks
Bloodstone: Template, S3 AP3 Assault 1
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power from Pain.
Special Rules: Klavex only
Onslaught: If a Klavex is in the unit, wound roll of 6 by Klavex or Incubus allows for bonus attacks, these cannot produce more attacks.
Murderious Assault: Klavex points at an IC and gains Preferred Enemy against that IC, can be done every assault phase
Unit size 3-10. Have fleet.

Mandrakes
5-10 unit strenght, have the Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Stealth universal special rules, but not strength from pain rule.
They have normal cc weapons, they gain a shooting attack after they get a pain point (by killing a unit or e.g. given to them by someone else), ranged attack str4 ap4 assault 2 pinning

Harlequins
As in Eldar Codex. No Solitaire.

Grotesques
Bigger with Ogryn stats. S/T5 3W, FNP. Don't have strength through pain rule. Urien allows them to be upgraded to S6. Shoot S4 AP4 Assault 2 fire attacks.
They take up 2 spaces in a transport (like Ogryn) they have to take a Ld test if an IC isn't accompanying them, and if they fail they inflict 2D6 attacks on nearby units before all dying.

Wracks
New. "Man-sized Grotesques". FNP, can be made troops by Urien and Haemunculi


Fast Attack
Hellions
Have hit and run. A character with a special hellboard gives the unit the ability to pull ICs out of the unit!

Scourges
Deepstrike. Standard with a assault 3 18" splinter weapon and can have heat lances (18" S6 AP1 Lance, Melta). 4+ armour save, 6++ inv save. Seem to get some kind of haywire grenade launcher They have wings meaning they are JUMPPACK not jetpack.
A unit of 5 can have 15 poisoned shots from 18" away without any upgrades.
A full unit of 10 can pack 4 shredders for 4 str6 templates, 4 splinter cannons (36" range) for a RIDICULOUS amount of poison nastiness, 4 heat lances for anti-tank, or 4 of any other special/heavy weapon you want

Beastmaster
Beastmasters ride skyboards and can take 3 different kinds of beasts, but each beastmaster must chose one kind, no mix..
1-5 beast masters per fast attack choice (still just one unit).
The clawed fiend is the biggest, with 4 wounds and 4 attacks, the fiend also gains an attack for every wound it suffers;
Warp Beast has one wound, but also a 4+ invulnerable save and a couple of attacks;
Some bird swarm is sort of in between - multiple wounds, 4 A and rending.
Kymerae are 0-5 per master, clawed fiends 0-1 per master




Reaver Jetbike (Upgrade. Arena Champion)
Can turbo boost 36", S3, T4, 5+ save, -1 to save and -1 to strength compared to previous edition. Jetbike gives +1 to save and +1 to Toughness (included in the profile).
They can perform a "fly-by" attack on units they fly past WITHOUT getting into CC. There were several upgrades for reaver jetbikes that inflict different numbers of S3/4/6 hits on units when doing their 'fly by' attack.
Can take Melter Blaster (S8 with Melter AND lance special rule)
Have strength through pain rule.
Blade under jetbike causes pinning test when wounding.
WARGEAR: Wychsuit, splinter pistol, close combat weapon, combat drugs.
Reaver Jetbike: +1T and 5+save, built in Splinter Rifle and 36" Turbo Boost
Bladevanes: Turbo Boost over any number of units, select one unengaged, nonvechile unit you have passed over. Each bike does D3 S4 AP- hits. Cover Saves allowed.
Cluster caltrops: Same as above but does D6 S6 AP- hits
Grav-Talon: Same as Bladevanes, D3 S4 AP-, if target suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds it must immediately take a pinning test.
Special Rules: Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders


Heavy Support
Ravager
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 11 11 10, can fire all three dark lances at cruising speed

Talos
In a standard and lighter version. Both similar size, no model in the near future. Lighter version is called Cronos or Parasite (?). When the Cronos kills a model with one of its weapons, it generates a pain token up to one per weapon per turn. You may chose to with nearby unit it goes.

Razorwing Fighter
Seem to be Skimmer, not flyers as previously said.They have aerial assault rules that mean they can move and fire all their weapons, they can also take a range of missiles. One of them: Implosion missiles, small blast, all models touched by it take a characteristics test on their wounds and if they fail it they instantly die. They can purchase up to four missiles of any of the following types and may be a mix of them. There are neurotoxin ones, imploding ones, soul stealing ones or something, and good old fashioned explosives.


Voidraven Bomber
Seem to be Skimmer, not flyers as previously said. It is AV 11/11/10, movement 36" with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager.
They have aerial assault rules that mean they can move and fire all their weapons, they can also take a range of missiles, range 48". One of them: Implosion missiles, small blast, all models touched by it take a characteristics test on their wounds and if they fail it they instantly die. They can purchase up to four missiles of any of the following types and may be a mix of them. There are neurotoxin ones, imploding ones, soul stealing ones or something, and good old fashioned explosives.

5 HS options, 2 old, 3 new
2 new units in Heavy Support:
razorwing fighter
voidraven bomber


No vehicle above AV 11 (except Vect's Dais)


Transports
Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive by 5 points, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

Venom
Artwork has DE riding it and harlies dont have it as a option. Has a TL splinter rifle and can upgrade to a splinter cannon
Formerly in Harlequin list (capacity 5)

Very interesting. I dont want to be a band wagon jumper guy, but the new models are stunning. Will probably sell of a couple of my armies and purchase this one.

You rock, Krrothawk. Thanks for putting this together.

Gunna be very interesting army playstyle/list.

Good compilation though!

Ah, they decided not to go 12/10/10 with the Raiders like we had heard, huh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no more WWP?

Hm so I wonder who can take the splinter carbine that was mentioned previously? (18" range, assault 3, poisoned 4+) Hopefully that's an upgrade for warriors.

Wyches and Incubi sound really nasty in CC. Bummer that the Solitaire isn't in there.

Anyone heard anything about psychic defenses? They'll need that to compete with certain armies.

I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

I'm not yet utterly convinced by all these rumours. Whilst most have been verified by numerous gamesdayers, some of them (the venom, elite warriors and wyches) seem to have only come from one guy on 40konline. I don't know the poster, nor the forum, so i'm reserving judgement.

Also, Urien Rakarth is allegedly getting a new model in the first wave, but nothing's been seen or heard of him yet.

What happened to the earlier rumor of Splinter Weapons being S2 Poison4+ weapons?

There surely has to be more.. special characters too yeah? Seems to be a common trend with new codex?

GalaxyGames wrote:There surely has to be more.. special characters too yeah? Seems to be a common trend with new codex?

Hopefully not.

Even more odd is that all the Special Characters are in HQ.

Only 2 Troop choices? Seems a little odd to me, seeing as how haemoculous is being touted as another mainstay army, and the general trend of 5th edition books to come with more troop choices than previously. (Hoping furiously for a Haemoculous based troop choice lol)

Kroothawk wrote: Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3.

Archon
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.
Can have bodyguard retinue (not Incubi anymore).

Wyches (also in an elite version)
Individual weapons with individual rules, e.g. net reduces number of attacks for all models in base contact to a minimum of 1 .
Chain-of-blades weapon gives +2A, as well as re-rolls to hit and to wound.

Incubi
Their squad leader (WS5, 3 Attacks) has a weapon that either gives him +2 S or +2 attacks (2 single handed weapons), and gives each member of the squad another attack on a roll of 6 to hit (no limit)

Mandrakes
have some kind of shooting attack that gets stronger with every kill they make

Reaver Jetbike
There were several upgrades for reaver jetbikes that inflict different numbers of S3/4/6 hits on units when doing their 'fly by' attack.

Looks like DE are going to be very high detail, highly "stateful".

I see a lot of tokens - Archon MC/SC kills, Wych kill tokens, Mandrake kills. That's potentially quite a lot of little counters on the board, hope they don't get mixed up...

I also see a lot of modeling bitz that people need to track: Wych weapons, Jetbike upgrades - I hope these will be "obvious", unlike the tiny & nearly-identical-looking Tyranid Biomorphs from back in the day...

With the Incubi getting unbounded chain attacks, I hope they have a Special Character to take them as Troops...

Absolutionis wrote:

GalaxyGames wrote:There surely has to be more.. special characters too yeah? Seems to be a common trend with new codex?

Hopefully not.

Even more odd is that all the Special Characters are in HQ.

They might simply not have heard of special characters for other choices. If I had to guess, I would think Mandrakes, one of the FA squads, and the Incubi get squad upgrade chars, but that's me guessing

GalaxyGames wrote:There surely has to be more.. special characters too yeah?

Sorry, don't understand the question

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

Don't forget that they're still T3, which is a pretty big disadvantage compared to MEq.

Warriors (also in an elite version)
Stats as before. Splinter Rifle rapid fire, no plasma grenades or Splinter pistols.

"Warriors" v. "Kabalite Warriors", methinks?

Would make sense, considering they actually labeled the models differently at GDUK, with the Kabalite Warriors having "Splinter Carbines".

To erroneously compare to other codecies, Incubi would probably be costed around 16. That's the cost of banshees and scorpions, and incubi seem like a combination of the two. The power weapons of the banshees with none of the initiative. The strength and armor of scorpions with none of the attacks. Plus, they're all elites.

Saldiven wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

Don't forget that they're still T3, which is a pretty big disadvantage compared to MEq.

What's their Init?

I5+: "b0rken, cheese!"

I4: "fair"

I3-: "such pretty models, shame not to play them"

Thanks for this thread. Right now, unless there is some huge increase in points for Dark Lances, the tried and true DE list is still intact. Hopefully, there will be a lot more options for fun and competitive games. The models look fantastic and I'll be in with the masses building one up.

Hopefully, wargear will be obvious and plentiful on the sprues. I'll be one to admit I get confused with what I'm looking at on the table, especially with Tyranid upgrades.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I see a lot of tokens - Archon MC/SC kills, Wych kill tokens, Mandrake kills. That's potentially quite a lot of little counters on the board, hope they don't get mixed up...

Maybe this is what the yet determined "special item" code is, token set.

I hope i can still give my DE lord his agoniser, also how exactly is a Archon who has nothing but a power weapon going to kill a MC or IC and double his strength?.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

Don't forget that they're still T3, which is a pretty big disadvantage compared to MEq.

What's their Init?

I5+: "b0rken, cheese!"

I4: "fair"

I3-: "such pretty models, shame not to play them"

Init only works when you're in HtH. Being T3 with the offensive punch they should have means you'll end up slaughtering your target unit and then being boltered off the board the next turn, if you're not very careful. That's a common enough occurrence with Incubi now, and these promise to have even more CC punch.

Saldiven wrote:

Init only works when you're in HtH. Being T3 with the offensive punch they should have means you'll end up slaughtering your target unit and then being boltered off the board the next turn, if you're not very careful. That's a common enough occurrence with Incubi now, and these promise to have even more CC punch.

Remember if they completely wipe their opponent unit they get a pain counter, meaning FNP. They wont be invincible, but it'll certainly help a lot in this instance

Yeah, the three rules that stick out a lot for me (if the rumors are true) are the exarch can give them an ability for Preferred Enemy, The Pain Token they could get for killing the unit, and the additional attack for every roll of 6.

So lets say you have a unit of 10 with an Exarch. against Marines, on the charge that is 32 Power Weapon Attacks (assuming the exarch is going +2 attack), of which 24 would hit. 4 of those will likely be 6's, 1 of those has a decent possibility of being another 6.

So lets say you have 29 hits. That should reliably kill 14.5 MEQs. (or fun fact roughly 5 assault marines with storm shields).

Then you gain a pain token and have a 3+/4+.

Considering how much shooting a DE list would have to take down tanks, throw in an Archon with an 18" melta pistol, and a raider giving them an effective 21" threat range (assuming they don't have fleet). Yeah, I see them used often.

Thanks for this summary Kroothawk, it's going to make this hype-distorted week easier for me

Hey kroothawk so what is the slaughterer? I keep seeing it each time the Ravager box set appears is that just another name or a new vehicle?

Kroothawk wrote:Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 HS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.

Can someone clarify the +1 HS above?

Gamble wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 HS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.

Can someone clarify the +1 HS above?

It's +1 BS, a typo from the original poster, flying back to Spain directly after GD UK

Luthon1234 wrote:Hey kroothawk so what is the slaughterer? I keep seeing it each time the Ravager box set appears is that just another name or a new vehicle?

In this thread, I have only used information from GD UK and people looking at the Codex, as these are a different quality than mere rumours. So no info on a Slaughterer or the weapons as featured in my previous DE rumour thread. But Slaughterer might be a Ravager variant or the missing new HS unit.

Gamble wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 HS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.

Can someone clarify the +1 HS above?

Probably a typo for "+1 BS" since Archons used to be WS7, BS7.

Ninja'd by 40 seconds.

Haemunculus army----IE HellRaiser in 40k

I wonder what benefits/count as troops they get...

I really thought that Raiders would make sence to be 11/10/10. I mean they do have it built up slightly in the front.

Still Psyked, I have a feeling I'm going to have to stop buying food to support my soon-to-be Dark Eldar army.

I wasn't buying the rumor of a 12-10-10. If they were going to change raider armor, it would have had to be front and side together. It's so long and narrow, the side armor is probably more important than the front. 11-11-10 would have been nice, but I can live without it, especially if the upgrades are all they are rumored to be.

So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

Farmer wrote:So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

First of all, Incubi were strength 3 in the last edition. They just had their punishers raise them up 1. And it looks like the Uruk Hai swords (I refuse to call them klaives or whatever) will do the same.

Also, is anybody else interested in Asdrubael Vect and his ex-wife?

Farmer wrote:So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

Their power weapons make them S4, they're WS 5, Ini 5 and have 2 attacks. Their Sarg can get either +2 Str or +2 attacks. He can also take an upgrade that allows them to reroll 6s (Forever). So...a group of 8 charging with a Sarg against Grey Hunters;

8 * 3 = 24 attacks
15-16ish hits
4 of which will be 6
2-3ish more hits (Maybe a 6 again, we'll say not)

So total 18ish hits rounded. 18 hits = 9 wounds against T4.

That's 9 dead Grey Hunters...of course Sarg will kill another 2...so a dead unit before they have a chance to hit back. Then, they get FNP after they wipe a unit.

Not bad but it always depends on cost. Kelly wrote the book though, so it will rock.

Hmm so basically a mix of banshees and scorpions without their extra gibbles but their own funky rules

Might have to see them in combat myself

I am very interested in what they'll be able to do I can't wait to get my hands on a Codex.

Not bad but it always depends on cost. Kelly wrote the book though, so it will rock.

Yeah if cruddace wrote the book every vehicle and HQ would cost 160 points

Kirasu wrote:

Not bad but it always depends on cost. Kelly wrote the book though, so it will rock.

Yeah if cruddace wrote the book every vehicle and HQ would cost 160 points

Dude, rage much?
While Cruddace didn't do much for the 'Nids, he was also the guy who wrote one of the best codexes in the game - the Imperial Guard - .
(please note; - the Imperial Guard - is different from the imperial guard. )

Azariah Kyras wrote:

Farmer wrote:So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

First of all, Incubi were strength 3 in the last edition. They just had their punishers raise them up 1. And it looks like the Uruk Hai swords (I refuse to call them klaives or whatever) will do the same.

Also, is anybody else interested in Asdrubael Vect and his ex-wife?

alright don't cut me head off

yeah i'm interested just how hiis ex-wife is still alive.

Farmer wrote:

Azariah Kyras wrote:

Farmer wrote:So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

First of all, Incubi were strength 3 in the last edition. They just had their punishers raise them up 1. And it looks like the Uruk Hai swords (I refuse to call them klaives or whatever) will do the same.

Also, is anybody else interested in Asdrubael Vect and his ex-wife?

alright don't cut me head off

yeah i'm interested just how hiis ex-wife is still alive.

Oh sorry. I didn't mean that to sound that way. Just correcting. And why am I imagining that he and his ex-wife could be in some sort of sitcom.

Farmer wrote:

Azariah Kyras wrote:

Farmer wrote:So the incubi have been nerfed? S3 is garbage and won't do anything...except murder guardsmen if they're lucky.

First of all, Incubi were strength 3 in the last edition. They just had their punishers raise them up 1. And it looks like the Uruk Hai swords (I refuse to call them klaives or whatever) will do the same.

Also, is anybody else interested in Asdrubael Vect and his ex-wife?

alright don't cut me head off

yeah i'm interested just how hiis ex-wife is still alive.

Didnt someone say revenge is a hell of an anesthetic

I'm expecting a flavorful rule that Vect and his ex cannot be in the same army.

Klawz wrote:

Kirasu wrote:

Not bad but it always depends on cost. Kelly wrote the book though, so it will rock.

Yeah if cruddace wrote the book every vehicle and HQ would cost 160 points

Dude, rage much?
While Cruddace didn't do much for the 'Nids, he was also the guy who wrote one of the best codexes in the game - the Imperial Guard - .
(please note; - the Imperial Guard - is different from the imperial guard. )

Rage? I didnt notice my use of caps, profanity or exclamation points! <---

As to the IG codex, multiple people have varying degrees of influence during a codex writing Id imagine. Cruddace could have been more responsible for storm troopers and less responsible for chimeras and veterans :p Never know.. I do know that he wrote the points costs for death strikes and manticores tho

Ill try to keep my rage in check

!

Absolutionis wrote:I'm expecting a flavorful rule that Vect and his ex cannot be in the same army.

What I would give to call the rule "restraining order" or "marital problems".

Irdiumstern wrote:Only 2 Troop choices? Seems a little odd to me, seeing as how haemoculous is being touted as another mainstay army, and the general trend of 5th edition books to come with more troop choices than previously. (Hoping furiously for a Haemoculous based troop choice lol)

space wolves only have 2

dareaper wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Only 2 Troop choices? Seems a little odd to me, seeing as how haemoculous is being touted as another mainstay army, and the general trend of 5th edition books to come with more troop choices than previously. (Hoping furiously for a Haemoculous based troop choice lol)

space wolves only have 2

Well to be fair you also *could* take fenrisian wolves and/or wolf guard as troops too.

Leggy wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

Init only works when you're in HtH. Being T3 with the offensive punch they should have means you'll end up slaughtering your target unit and then being boltered off the board the next turn, if you're not very careful. That's a common enough occurrence with Incubi now, and these promise to have even more CC punch.

Remember if they completely wipe their opponent unit they get a pain counter, meaning FNP. They wont be invincible, but it'll certainly help a lot in this instance

That's assuming Incubi have the "strength through pain" rule; currently, it appears that only wych type units will have that rule.

I'm disappointed that Tormentor Helms are going away. I liked them fluff-wise. Hopefully Agonisers will still be in the new codex somewhere.

Saldiven wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

Init only works when you're in HtH. Being T3 with the offensive punch they should have means you'll end up slaughtering your target unit and then being boltered off the board the next turn, if you're not very careful. That's a common enough occurrence with Incubi now, and these promise to have even more CC punch.

Remember if they completely wipe their opponent unit they get a pain counter, meaning FNP. They wont be invincible, but it'll certainly help a lot in this instance

That's assuming Incubi have the "strength through pain" rule; currently, it appears that only wych type units will have that rule.

It's always up in the air until the dex hits but I've read multiple sources stating Incubi have the Strength Though Pain rule. I've also read that the Haemonculus gives it to the unit he accompanies.

As an aside, I've seen two people post now that there is an upgrade for DE tanks that gives them a 5+ Inv. Save (Not cover, Inv.).

Wait, DARK Eldar? Some kind of Eldar but dark? Don't tell me people are buying into this obvious hoax.

I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Wow, looking at them more closely, I think you're right Kid!

Actually, they're test greens a sculptor did a few years ago. Iorek/Lorek should be around here shortly to set us straight.

*Edit*

Nevermind, WhiteDragon is here and he's got some updated pictures I think.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Wait, DARK Eldar? Some kind of Eldar but dark? Don't tell me people are buying into this obvious hoax.

I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Can you tell by the pixels?

Platuan4th wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Can you tell by the pixels?

And from having seen a few shops in your time?

OT:

I'd imagine the possibility to get a S10 Lord will have a mitigating factor or something?

i got an old battalion, last one in China, and I'm just waiting for a look at the codex to start modelling... im scared i cant do jack diddly until I've got an idea on how the army will play..

Hmm, it appears that some units would benefit from killing opponents.
This looks interesting, but many armies out there in the 40k universe try to avoid the enemy, keeping him at arm's length, shooting him to bits.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Wait, DARK Eldar? Some kind of Eldar but dark? Don't tell me people are buying into this obvious hoax.
I mean the pics we've seen are obvious photoshop jobs.

Actually they are real, but GW dropped all 15 moulds so ...
Anyway, back to topic, boys!

You know, I was pissing my pants in excitement over the new DE models...but I'm not so sure the rules are going to be as good.

I mean look, the only 5th edition xeno codex to come out so far was Tyranids. They were sort of okay upon release, but not really up to the standards of other 5th edition codices like Space Wolves or Blood Angels (or even Guard, which was written by the same guy :\...and I know BA came out after 'nids but it was still better, lol). Not only that, but they had to wait six months for an FAQ, and when the FAQ did come out they got screwed over and made even worse than they were.

I'm not saying 'nids suck, but they're certainly not as good as any of the Marine codices, or Guard. I know GW would have to be monumentally fething stupid to make the DE codex suck, after taking such a huge risk in redoing the entire range to begin with (basically the pet project of their best sculptor)...but still, I think I might wait until the FAQ comes out before buying the bulk of my army.

In fact, Sidstyler is right about the codices.
It appears that DE will get some fancy boosts in cc. But the problem can be to get there.

I updated the first post, updates in Dark Red.

Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

This counters one of the basic issues in a DE army, the fragility of Raiders.
They seem to become faster and more resilient.

Question: If the Raider moves +2D6'', can the mounted squad still disembark and charge?

wuestenfux wrote:[Question: If the Raider moves +2D6'', can the mounted squad still disembark and charge?

Only as a template missile, I guess

So we had specific wytch weapons in 3rd edition then reverted to all wytch weapons being the same with the codex update, and now we are back to specific wytch weapons in the new codex.....So any bets as to what will happen with the wytch weapons in the next codex update.....?

del'Vhar wrote:

I'd imagine the possibility to get a S10 Lord will have a mitigating factor or something?

Well your lord has to kill 2 independent characters or monsterous creatures first. I imagine you'll need a very lucky day to achieve that before turn 4. And then, what do you do with it?

Dark eldar are very unusual with these momentum mechanics, like this piece of wargear or strength through pain. I'm very excited to play with them.

Well, that's my point. Its definitely hard to kill one or more units in the course of the game.
Then you have a Lord with S10 and suddenly the game ends. Pointless.

Does the "Power from Pain" work only in close combat or shooting as well?

Little tokens following the units on the board? OK, whatever. Might work ( or not ). I am just not overtly enthusiastic about adding more excess ( non-model ) pieces on the board. Considering that there usually are more than enough of them already ( dice, wrecks etc. ).

Can't help feeling this tokens thing is a nearly said token gesture
It feels a bit gimmicky to me. Looks good at first but as pointed out above, in a 6 turn game...

Will just have to see how it pans out. Would rather have some concrete benefits.

Having said that I quite like the concept. I guess it rewards aggressive play style. But it isn't as though DE are going to sit back and wait for the other chap.

Guess who is going to be releasing some fancy-dan plastic DE tokens in November?

This rules might be hard to make use of them in 1500p games, I agree. But in Apocalypse games...

G_Model101 wrote:So we had specific wytch weapons in 3rd edition then reverted to all wytch weapons being the same with the codex update, and now we are back to specific wytch weapons in the new codex.....So any bets as to what will happen with the wytch weapons in the next codex update.....?

My guess is that they'll have the fancy weapons in some form. If there is suppose to be an "Elite" and "Troop" version of the same squad, I could see this being an aspect of their distinction. That with the "Elite" choice any number may upgrade their weapons, while the troop choice only allows the "Exarch" equivalent to.

Saldiven wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

Don't forget that they're still T3, which is a pretty big disadvantage compared to MEq.

Toughness is near irrelevant if you have enuogh Strength, initiative and attacks to destoy them, and the Pain points will help somewhat to surviving the following round


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:

Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

They seem to become faster and more resilient.

As has every other transport and tank in the game

This strength bonus seems to be rather unfluffy.
DE start a raiding party making slaves and then disappear.
They are not Berzerkers or Blood Crushers.

Kroothawk wrote:It's +1 BS, a typo from the original poster, flying back to Spain directly after GD UK

That was so obviously obvious

Wait, +1 BS can make a difference.

so... I see the buildup token thing as being a way to keep them being useful towards the end of the game when your fragile units have been beat up so what you got left has some 'mojo'

it also makes them kinda of more powerful against MSU builds, since its more likely you will wipe a small unit than a big one...just saying.

What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

And what happens when we get our hands on the Codex, and find out a lot of these rumours were Red Herrings?

Come on guys, you know better than to depend on Web Rumours for any kind of accuracy, yes?

Mojo is not going to work against larger mobz or broods.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

I always felt that a Warrior squad needs more than 2 splinter cannons.
I only gave them to Raider squads.

Was referring to the mojo as Wuesten put it

Come on Mr M don't spoil the fun
In any case we just smile knowingly and say I knew all along that was going to be in...

Erasoketa wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

Mr Mystery wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

Well, cover is almost everywhere and thus larger mobz or broods hardly die from shooting. Bad news in the 5th ed.

what happens when a squad of Dark eldar hit a big mob of orks or nids? The same thing that will happen to all lightly armored elite troops.

they will kill a few and get chomped down under 40-90 attack dice.

So jump them with multiple squads. You know, using your mobility.

Reckon we'll see some Flameresque weapons in the book.

I always think its funny when people pose these clearly one sided hypotheticals... the simple fact is when something is so potentially one sided you don't allow yourself to get in that situation. The units rules shouldn't be playing the game for you.

To reiterare
when I posed the question it was more specifically with regard to the tokens and wiping out units
It is one thing to get buffed if you beat up a small/medium unit and run it off the table.
But if up against a horde army the token buff looks a loooong way off!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:To reiterare
when I posed the question it was more specifically with regard to the tokens and wiping out units
It is one thing to get buffed if you beat up a small/medium unit and run it off the table.
But if up against a horde army the token buff looks a loooong way off!

It's very true that earning these tokens will be more difficult against horde type armies, but shouldn't be impossible. Horde type armies should result in fewer overall tokens being gained, but that's pretty obvious when compared to an MSU type build.

Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

But ive noticed the MSU types are starting to die out pretty quick

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

I think it kind of depends. I've seen some posts on various boards that the token count isn't a per-unit count, but an army wide count. For example, if a unit with StP destroys an enemy unit, then the army gains a token; thereafter, every StP unit gains the benefit.

That sounds too powerful to me, but some posters seem to think that's the way it is...

Saldiven wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

I think it kind of depends. I've seen some posts on various boards that the token count isn't a per-unit count, but an army wide count. For example, if a unit with StP destroys an enemy unit, then the army gains a token; thereafter, every StP unit gains the benefit.

That sounds too powerful to me, but some posters seem to think that's the way it is...

This would clearly make a difference. Can't believe.

wuestenfux wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

I think it kind of depends. I've seen some posts on various boards that the token count isn't a per-unit count, but an army wide count. For example, if a unit with StP destroys an enemy unit, then the army gains a token; thereafter, every StP unit gains the benefit.

That sounds too powerful to me, but some posters seem to think that's the way it is...

This would clearly make a difference. Can't believe.

Need to see the specific rules text and batrep for a clear example.


Then Gwar's interpretation of how GW got their own rule wrong.

Anyone know if Ravagers and the like are going to be available in squadrons? Previous codices have certainly set this precedent for both tanks and skimmers.

Skarboy wrote:Anyone know if Ravagers and the like are going to be available in squadrons? Previous codices have certainly set this precedent for both tanks and skimmers.

Hard to say.

I'd be interesting to see how the Venom will fit into the army.
The Venom in the experimental Harlie codex of Gav Thorpe was a lighter version of the Raider with transport capacity: 6 men squad plus 1 IC.

Until shown otherwise i'm going to assume SiP is per unit. There's not much point in having counters if it's army wide, however army-wide would be simplier for counter allocation. For example, if on a unit by unit basis, who gets the counter after winning a multiple combat? Both? The one who caused the last wound/ sweeping advanced? Army wide solves this, but in a bad way IMO.

As for the Horde vs MSU debate, against Horde Dark eldar use mobility supremacy to get 2/3/4 units fighting each horde squad. Against MSU each unit holds its own, so DE can engage more enemy squads. Theoretically neither is any harder to face than the other, but turning theory into practice is where skill comes in.

A major question is how many competitive builds will be there in the new 'dex.
Raider spam will certainly work with the 'dex.
But how about a Haemonculi Coven?

Skarboy wrote:Anyone know if Ravagers and the like are going to be available in squadrons? Previous codices have certainly set this precedent for both tanks and skimmers.

What, you mean the Imperial Guard? As far as I can recall, their the only ones really...

wuestenfux wrote:

I'd be interesting to see how the Venom will fit into the army.
The Venom in the experimental Harlie codex of Gav Thorpe was a lighter version of the Raider with transport capacity: 6 men squad plus 1 IC.

I thought the Venom was an oversized Vyper?

thelordoflife wrote:But ive noticed the MSU types are starting to die out pretty quick

Maybe with this codex they will stay dead.

About the Venom, GW had a website showing how to convert a Venom from a Vyper.

wuestenfux wrote:A major question is how many competitive builds will be there in the new 'dex.
Raider spam will certainly work with the 'dex.
But how about a Haemonculi Coven?

Well, obviously it's too early for us to know, but I think we can make some semi-educated guesses.

It is likely that the Coven will still have access to warriors, the elite warriors, raiders, ravagers and scourges. Those should be able to make a decent enough mobile shooting element to the army.

The big question is going to come with how effective the revamped Grotesques will be in providing CC punch.

Is there any word on whether webway portals still exist?

Scott-S6 wrote:Is there any word on whether webway portals still exist?

A source on Warseer says yes, but he doesn't know the details

hopefully i can still field my webway portals and maybe drop the points down to 75.

Leggy wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:Is there any word on whether webway portals still exist?

A source on Warseer says yes, but he doesn't know the details

I hope he's right, I've been designing a really cool webway portal for a while now...

Absolutionis wrote:I'm expecting a flavorful rule that Vect and his ex cannot be in the same army.

Maybe its like GN Captain Stern and his Nemesis and your ooppent gets a free (and very bitter) Dark Eldar Lady? Or extra points as alimony??
maybe she is why Vect no longer has a cool ride with female slaves..............


Hopefully she will get a cool model as well................

The new rules look good - no major issues thus far from the thread - looking forward to upgrading my army with some new models.

Interesting that Dracon now unit upgarde - wonder if you are limited to one Archon.......

Re Ex Wife
You don't suppose there will be an animosity roll that needs to be taken before each turn?

Maybe a 'Bitch-slap' special rule...

Maybe she comes equipped with a golf club and a squad of Lawyers - not sure about the stats for them.............

Mr Morden wrote:Maybe she comes equipped with a golf club and a squad of Lawyers - not sure about the stats for them.............

Well, if they don't include the "Prenuptial Agreement" special rule, then Vect is gonna be boned.

Archons are BS7 WS7?

Maybe WS7, but BS7 is overpowered.

I could see Lelith being anywhere from:

WS 8 BS 6 S3 T3 W3 I8 SV -/4+ LD 10

to

WS 10 BS 6 S3 T3 W3 I10 SV -/3+ LD10

If she gets a power boost like every other character she's going to be a beast. (Already the best point for point SC in the game imo)

Amaya wrote:I could see Lelith being anywhere from:

WS 8 BS 6 S3 T3 W3 I8 SV -/4+ LD 10

to

WS 10 BS 6 S3 T3 W3 I10 SV -/3+ LD10

If she gets a power boost like every other character she's going to be a beast. (Already the best point for point SC in the game imo)

If either of these stat lines are accurate I will field her just for the sole purpose of getting my Meph-fisting-on

Lokirfellheart wrote:Archons are BS7 WS7?

Maybe WS7, but BS7 is overpowered.

Surely that will depend on How much the Lord costs and the weapons available - previously only a Splinter pistol..... the 18" Blaster option is useful if same rules as previously (S8, AP, AV more than 12+ = 12) but don't see it as a dealbreaker yet ?

although I am surprised they are better than the Autarch..................

Lelith will be at least WS8 I8.

wuestenfux wrote:About the Venom, GW had a website showing how to convert a Venom from a Vyper.

It was the front of a Vyper slapped to a Raider.

If the venom is really in the codex, I think its safe to say its either a Raider variant or it will be something similar but smaller. If GW intends on bringing it into the Eldar codex then it could always be a unique model that incoporates the aesthetic common to both the Dark Eldar and Craftworlds. Making it a bit of a smaller sleeker raider. Distinguished similarly to how Jabba the Hutt's barge had the smaller skiffs zipping around it.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Anyone know if Ravagers and the like are going to be available in squadrons? Previous codices have certainly set this precedent for both tanks and skimmers.

What, you mean the Imperial Guard? As far as I can recall, their the only ones really...

For several generations there have been options for land speeders, killa kans, war walkers, etc. in squadrons. DE vehicles are light/cheap enough that I could see this option. Of course, for tanks (and Vendettas/Valkyries), the IG set that precedent and then the Tyranids allowed you to buy broods of Carnifexes, which are essentially the "tanks" of the Tyranid codex. It seems like something that, when it makes sense to the type of army, they are allowing. IG should have armored columns and/or air cavalry builds. Tyranids should have MC broods to open the way for the swarm. Point being, this seems like a trend, both from the nature of the game and sales, to allow folks to play with more vehicles and thus buy more kits. Now, they may not come in squadron form, but I wouldn't be surprised to see options/special character rules to allow, for example, additional Ravagers to be selected (such as purchasing 1-3 in a single force organization slot) or to allow them to be taken in different slots (such as a big mek or BA list taking dreads as troops). I would be surprised if there weren't some options in this regard to try to drive up sales and perhaps create alternative builds, but they may go the route of having different "patterns" of tanks (such as the rumored Slaughterer) that might make peeps buy more kits.

Mr Morden wrote:Surely that will depend on How much the Lord costs and the weapons available - previously only a Splinter pistol..... the 18" Blaster option is useful if same rules as previously (S8, AP, AV more than 12+ = 12) but don't see it as a dealbreaker yet ?

although I am surprised they are better than the Autarch..................

Well, the Autarch is a leader of men type...er, eldar, I mean.

The Archon is a straight up killer. (At least by fluff.)

I can definitely see the Venom potentially being in the Codex.

The Dark Eldar's "Falcon" as it is, with the Raider being their "Wave Serpent".

Is there any T4 units or all T3 squeeshies? Unless these units with rawk solid SC have any Eternal WArrior then Tau, SM and IG have amazing amount of TL S7 AP shots to put downrange.

Acardia wrote:Is there any T4 units or all T3 squeeshies? Unless these units with rawk solid SC have any Eternal WArrior then Tau, SM and IG have amazing amount of TL S7 AP shots to put downrange.

with a 36" boost plus the ability to go an extra 2D6" have all the guns you want the Deldar are either going to be on you or behind you at that point.

Also I'm noticing two different playstyles with the Dark eldar. You can go for an uber alpha strike style or you can attempt an attrition style that simply gets stronger as the game progresses.

Acardia wrote:Is there any T4 units or all T3 squeeshies? Unless these units with rawk solid SC have any Eternal WArrior then Tau, SM and IG have amazing amount of TL S7 AP shots to put downrange.

Well, we don't know how the Grotesques will fit into this though.....they could be T4 or more when we receive more info on them.

The Talos would be the other "big" tough model if it's still roughly in the form of its last incarnation (ie, does not have a AV like the Wraithlord), so there still is a good bit to find out about the other unit-types in this codex.

The different warp-beasts and the new man-sized haemonculus contructs could also have a higher T value as well......

LucasLAD wrote:

with a 36" boost plus the ability to go an extra 2D6" have all the guns you want the Deldar are either going to be on you or behind you at that point.

Also I'm noticing two different playstyles with the Dark eldar. You can go for an uber alpha strike style or you can attempt an attrition style that simply gets stronger as the game progresses.

Woah, woah woah,one step at a time here. First, all we know is that the jetbikes can go 36" and that raiders can go +2d6". That doesn't mean that you can go 36" + 2d6" though that would be awesome.

As for playstyles, what little information we have so far seems to suggest anything but an alpha strike army (given how much talk is going around of tokens, etc.).

True enough I suppose

LucasLAD wrote:

Acardia wrote:Is there any T4 units or all T3 squeeshies? Unless these units with rawk solid SC have any Eternal WArrior then Tau, SM and IG have amazing amount of TL S7 AP shots to put downrange.

with a 36" boost plus the ability to go an extra 2D6" have all the guns you want the Deldar are either going to be on you or behind you at that point.

Also I'm noticing two different playstyles with the Dark eldar. You can go for an uber alpha strike style or you can attempt an attrition style that simply gets stronger as the game progresses.

The 36" boost was listed for the bikes, not the transport. The +2d6" move was listed for the transports, not the bikes.

Alphastrike would definitely be a playstyle for the DE. The transports are still fast, open topped skimmers, meaning they can still move 12" disembark and assault as normal.

Here's hoping the extra +2D6 means I could get a disembark and assault at 24"

I wonder if the strength through pain rule works something like this - only some units capture your victims, but everybody gets to share in the spoils, so to speak. So your basic warriors have to get wipe outs in order to buff everyone else. Incubi don't have the rule (don't go to war to capture people) but do benefit from it.

It would fit the rumors we've seen so far, but its hard to see how it wouldn't be crazy broken. It does fit the theme of the DE very well - raiders who wear you down a bit, and then go for the kill as you get weaker and they get stronger. While there are other armies that tend to win late in the game, no army has the potential to increase its strength (except perhaps tyranids I suppose).

Its sure to be useful in an army this fast -if you're not picking up a token by turn 2, you're probably not playing right.

I wonder if tokens are "spent' to gain the effect as a one time boost. So you get FNP for 1 turn, not forever. That would seem more reasonable.

FNP Talos seems vile, until you remember that just about anything that can hurt it already ignores FNP. FNP grotesques, assuming T4-5 could be quite useful.

kestral wrote:I wonder if tokens are "spent' to gain the effect as a one time boost. So you get FNP for 1 turn, not forever. That would seem more reasonable.

Like, say, FAITH POINTS???

kestral wrote:
It would fit the rumors we've seen so far, but its hard to see how it wouldn't be crazy broken. It does fit the theme of the DE very well - raiders who wear you down a bit, and then go for the kill as you get weaker and they get stronger.

I think you've completely missed the intent of the ability, and that it's more like they are soul stealing, sadist elfpires who derive pleasure from the horrors of war?

Rymafyr wrote:Here's hoping the extra +2D6 means I could get a disembark and assault at 24"

I don't think that's too much to ask. Orks get the +1 inch for red paint. Why not give the DE something that would fit in with the fluff of lightning fast raids.

I think the biggest thing that would kill this army is a lack of grenades. Marines seem to get them as standard. If the DE didn't get them, it would pretty much be counterintuitive to what you want them to do. This is my singlemost biggest gripe about the Tyranids: no way to really offset assaulting into cover.

Basically, I'm hoping for Plasma Grenades as an option or automatically included.

Ya the addition of +6" for roads in combo w/ +1 for red letting Orks disembark at 21" really pissed me off when 5th arrived. At least in Thought Raiders have no resistance to deal with so an 18" disembark/assault should be feasible even now. It's just an odd mechanic that open topped fast 'ground' vehicles benefit from something a skimmer can't.

They look like pretty decent rules. I can tell that some DE units could potentially be really nasty. I have considered getting a DE army at some point, though to be perfectly honest im still in a fantasy mood and im getting my HE sorted atm.

I shall definetly try to have a game against them when they come out though.

I seriously doubt the DE will be able to disembark after 12+2d6 inches of movement, but maybe. Much more likely to me is something like the Grav Chute deploiyment where you can travel fast and deposit them along the way in a controlled "deep strike."

Dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but it seems Jes Goodwin makes a mention of Wyches and their 'combat enhancers' today. And how Lelith won't have them:

Jes Goodwin wrote:The heads were a challenge. We needed lots of designs to give the models character, but the plastic moulding process makes hair difficult, and getting good female faces in a small scale is even tougher (they couldn't all be bald and male). They finished up with a lot of exotic haircuts, styled, but with barbaric decorations, pins and blades woven into them. The high collars tied the Wyches in with the Kabalite Warriors and allowed us to add the pipes, which deliver combat enhancers to the Wyches.

Jes Goodwin wrote:. . .The rest of her is really stripped back; barefoot, with much less armour than the ordinary Wyches, armed with just two of the cult knives and no combat enhancers, we wanted to imply that she was so deadly that she needed none of those things. With more of her skin showing she would contrast well with the rank and file of the army. Juan really hit this one out of the park, one of the nicest female models we've ever made.

I like "Combat Enhancers" better than "Combat Drugs" anyways.

"Combat Enhancers" implies that it could also very easily be modeled as some kind of weird arcane relic, not just popping pills.

In the fluff, Lelith doesn't use them.

Skarboy wrote:I seriously doubt the DE will be able to disembark after 12+2d6 inches of movement, but maybe. Much more likely to me is something like the Grav Chute deploiyment where you can travel fast and deposit them along the way in a controlled "deep strike."

That would be wicked. Since you can't disembark after flat out.

I'm a little confused over the +2d6 in general. If the raider moves 6", the occupants can't fire from the raider anyway unless there's a new rule to allow it. The raiders could already move flatout up to 24" for being a fast skimmer so it kind of seems redundant unless they are going to allow you to do something else in addition to just moving the +2d6. What would make it worth spending the points?

ThePhish wrote:I'm a little confused over the +2d6 in general. If the raider moves 6", the occupants can't fire from the raider anyway unless there's a new rule to allow it. The raiders could already move flatout up to 24" for being a fast skimmer so it kind of seems redundant unless they are going to allow you to do something else in addition to just moving the +2d6. What would make it worth spending the points?

No, if the raider moves faster than combat speed, occupants can't fire from the Raider. As orks have shown with their Red Paint Jobs, distance traveled doesn't always equate to vehicle speed. If the bonus movement doesn't force the Raider into the next speed bracket, it could be quite nasty (12" Cruising Speed + 2d6" + disembark + assault 6").

Total then would be 32" to Assault. Yeah, I can live with that. If, that is how it ends up working. Obviously 'wishlisting' but hey...we won't know til the codex drops.

+Fleet, +another potential 6 inches from Combat 'Enhancers'.

I imagine the 2d6" move is going to be like star engines on craftworld eldar skimmers.

On the topic of fear about the power of this codex, is anyone willing to live through another pyrovore? Lovely model but...

kenshin620 wrote:On the topic of fear about the power of this codex, is anyone willing to live through another pyrovore? Lovely model but...

No worse than Possessed or Spawn.


Still, I wonder if GW will do like the Greatswords and Assault Termies - if the rules are good enough, people will play them!

On the topic of Tokens attached to units, doesnt fantasy use a few of those for various magic spells/items?

Stelek did state that he thought 8th ed fantasy was a testing ground for 6th ed 40k, maybe this is an example of the way things will be going...

(This is not the time/place for submitting your thoughts on Stelek, and is still just conjecture)

JohnHwangDD wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:On the topic of fear about the power of this codex, is anyone willing to live through another pyrovore? Lovely model but...

No worse than Possessed or Spawn.

Yea but those are 4th edition!

There's been so many rumors, I forgot where I read it, but there was a code someone found that related to a new Dark Eldar item coming out that wasn't a miniature or codex. Possible new 'tokens' for the codex?

GW's been putting out non miniature items for quite some time now and sales have been pretty good locally. If folks are curious as to a facet of what 6th edition may look like; take a look at the newish battle missions book. If you think back (possibly a precedence), this is essentially what the Cityfight book was. A lot of the rules from Cityfight ended up in 5th edition.

It won't be tokens.

+Fleet, +another potential 6 inches from Combat 'Enhancers'.

I am betting the +2d6 movement for the vehicle is going to be similar to a fleet move so I doubt you will get additional fleet from the occupants heh. We shall see I guess.

36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Well if it's anything like how I play Dark Eldar. Have fun reserving all your units. The next 3 turns are going to flllyyy by.

Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Have fun with that. Meanwhile my wych raider squads are going to zip around and wait to charge 2 units into each 1 of yours when only half of your army comes out on second turn. Less for me to have to deal with in 1 turn...

zeekill wrote:

Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Have fun with that. Meanwhile my wych raider squads are going to zip around and wait to charge 2 units into each 1 of yours when only half of your army comes out on second turn. Less for me to have to deal with in 1 turn...

Here we go. People haven't even read an official codex yet and they're already playing theoryhammer.

Why do I keep reading that people thought the Solitaire may have been included with the Dark Eldar rules? Also, perhaps the Venom will give the Harlequins a dedicated transport that could be used in Eldar lists as well?

any word on if i want my archon to have a agoniser can i still take the cube that doubles his strength?

People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

I was about to list my Dark Eldar on ebay, but with these new rules (and models) I think I'll hold on to it for a bit longer. Will be a nice counterpoint to my IG, one sits back defensively and the other zooms forward in my opponents face!

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar until their codex is redone

And here I was thinking that we hadn't seen Ozy in a while.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

I'm not talking about killing a full squad of 20 boyz in one shooting phase, but if Warrior squads have a good amount of firepower you might kill from 25% to 50% of them. That would make the job easier for CC units.

We are talking about the same, I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saldiven wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

I think it kind of depends. I've seen some posts on various boards that the token count isn't a per-unit count, but an army wide count. For example, if a unit with StP destroys an enemy unit, then the army gains a token; thereafter, every StP unit gains the benefit.

That sounds too powerful to me, but some posters seem to think that's the way it is...

Reading the rules as posted in OP:

Kroothawk wrote:
Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3. Seems to buff all units with this rule simultaniously!

I think it would be like this:
- A unit with StP destroys a valid opponent unit, they get FNP.
- A second StP unit kills another unit, they also get FNP.
- First unit kills a second unit, all the army gets Furious charge.
- The second StP unit -wich has got Furious charge thanks to their fellows- destroys a second enemy unit, this has no effect in the army because they already have Furious charge.
- Any of both units kills a third enemy unit, then the whole army gets Fearless.

But of course, if we don't have the rules written as they appear in the codex, it's all guessing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote:any word on if i want my archon to have a agoniser can i still take the cube that doubles his strength?

Usually Strength modifiers do not affect weapons that wound with a particular roll. I don't think Agonisers and that cube will compatible. It would be with weapons like punishers like this: Archon has S3+1=4, kills an IC, then he has S3x2+1=7. If Archon kills a second IC he gets S10.

Gamble wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar until their codex is redone

Or they decide to pimp sales by tossing out a White Dwarf article allowing it (as I rather expect Space Marines to get when the Storm Raven is released).

The new (or rather old) direction of rules for new models in White Dwarf changes the release paradigm a fair bit.

Jack

I think that the StP rule will end up being army wide, only because most armies aren't rolling out 10+ units in a 1500/1750 game to be massacred by the DE. I don't really believe that vehicles/dreads/etc will count towards this, as it wouldn't really satisfy the DE fluffwise to kill these things. The IG and Tau are the only armies to really field large numbers of small sized units. SM/CSM have small numbers of squads. So it just wouldn't make sense overall for the units to individually gain the StP bonuses.

Skarboy wrote:I seriously doubt the DE will be able to disembark after 12+2d6 inches of movement, but maybe. Much more likely to me is something like the Grav Chute deploiyment where you can travel fast and deposit them along the way in a controlled "deep strike."

Well, then the Raider could go flat out, 24''.
The movement of 12+2D6 inches makes only sense when the Raider is able to shoot or when the transported unt can disembark (and charge).

Janthkin wrote:

ThePhish wrote:I'm a little confused over the +2d6 in general. If the raider moves 6", the occupants can't fire from the raider anyway unless there's a new rule to allow it. The raiders could already move flatout up to 24" for being a fast skimmer so it kind of seems redundant unless they are going to allow you to do something else in addition to just moving the +2d6. What would make it worth spending the points?

No, if the raider moves faster than combat speed, occupants can't fire from the Raider. As orks have shown with their Red Paint Jobs, distance traveled doesn't always equate to vehicle speed. If the bonus movement doesn't force the Raider into the next speed bracket, it could be quite nasty (12" Cruising Speed + 2d6" + disembark + assault 6").

Hopefully they write it better than red paint which says that the vehicle isn't affected by the extra movement but doesn't say that passengers aren't.

Stupid question: Who's the autor of the codex?
Cruddace or Kelly?

wuestenfux wrote:Stupid question: Who's the autor of the codex?
Cruddace or Kelly?

According to the info from GD and from GW website, Phil Kelly wrote the rules and Jes Goodwin (don't know if working with Phil) wrote the fluff.

Good to know.
I'd have voted for Gav Thorpe.
However, Kelly wrote the Eldar codex and so it should be at that level.

Gav Thorpe doesn't write Codices for GW any more.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Gav Thorpe doesn't write Codices for GW any more.

I know, that's too bad.

Gav Thorpe doesn't do Codices, but if he did, they'd probably be the most broken codices in the world...

Phototoxin wrote:Gav Thorpe doesn't do Codices, but if he did, they'd probably be the most broken codices in the world...

That's a guess.
JJ also did codices and especially the DA codex was one of the worst.

So much discussion over so little!

Why don't people wait until they have the Book in hand? Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

wuestenfux wrote:I know, that's too bad.

You sure about that? The last one he wrote was the 'Chaos' Codex.


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Mr Mystery wrote:Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

Only that when it turned out not to be a prank I tried to remind everyone how they treated you, yet you seemed to do nothing but thrive on wanting to be a troll, making my attempts at possibly repairing your reputation moot.

A short history of this thread:

Sorry but forgot the member who had a thread locked due to insufficient info. We wanted thread as that info filtered out but was lost in the myriad "the models are ace I am so gonna get some" posts.

Kroothawk, started this thread by collating all the available info. Note that he did this in his own time and is going to the trouble of updating it.

We discuss and speculate, for it it a human thing to do.
It is fun.
A bit like people in the pub wondering who will win the Premiership this season.
It's what people do.

I hate to say this as it is such a platitude, but if you don't like rumours threads, don't go on the forum.

Please don't post negative inflamatory comments that will lead to a thread getting derailed and closed down and spoil other peoples' enjoyment.

Thankyou

H.B.M.C. wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I know, that's too bad.

You sure about that? The last one he wrote was the 'Chaos' Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Mystery wrote:Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

Only that when it turned out not to be a prank I tried to remind everyone how they treated you, yet you seemed to do nothing but thrive on wanting to be a troll, making my attempts at possibly repairing your reputation moot.

Thing is, I had odd, personal reasons for doing so. I know I pissed some people off when I called it a hoax, but did what had to be done, hence no need for people to apologise or feel bad. No biggy to me.

I have eargly waited 11 years for a full update on the dark eldar,

It is only know that i realise that my most favourate, longest played army is now to be my. MOst dreaded.

Why? Because with this update my gameplay will change, their will be 9 year old bandwagoners, crazy removals of lovewd wargear, change of points and MOST OF ALL

People will know how to beat me as their will be other players of DE.

Updated the first post with some info by Heresy Online moderator MadCowCrazy, as always this batch is coloured dark red.
The pics are the original entry art.

I just wanted to reiterate Kroothawk in an attempt to bring this discussion back on track.
Kroothawk:

HQ
Archon, Wych Lord, Haemunculi

Troops
Warriors, Wyches

Elite
Incubi, Mandrakes, Harlequins, Grotesques, "Other Haemunculi Construct", Beastmaster,
Elite Warriors (Dracons, Syrabite), Elite Wyches (Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)

Fast Attack
Hellions, Reaver Jetbike

Heavy Support
Ravager, Talos (light), Talos (standard), Scourges, razorwing,"Something completely new"

Transports
Raider, Venom

Does anyone else feel the Heavy Support and Elite sections are over filled in comparisson to the Fast Attack section? Given the current trend of really stacking in quantities of unit to choose from, it make sense that the volume is in the DE list, but the distribution seems a bit off. If this is a correct list, it would have been nice to see a unit or two bumped into the fast attack section. Who knows maybe the "lighter" Talos is such a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the updated sections of text.

Kroothawk wrote:Warriors ...
Dracons have lost -1WS, -1BS, and -1I but gained +1A. Sybarite are same as before with +1LD. Trueborn are same as Sybarites. Kabarite warriors are just that, warriors.
Unit Type: Infantry
WARGEAR: Splinter Rifle, Kabalite Armour
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power From Pain.
Fluff text says Trueborn escort their Archons to battle, so these guys can probably be HQ Retinues. Dracons are Trueborn veterans.

Wyches (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)
Wych are same as before, Hekatrix and Bloodbrides are same as Wych Succubus with +1LD, Syrens are same as Hekatrix with +1A.
Unit Type: Infantry
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain.
WARGEAR: Close combat weapon, combat drugs, plasma grenades, splinter pistol, wychsuit.
...

Incubi
...
WARGEAR: Incubus warsuit
Klaive: 2H weapon that gives +1S
Demiklaives: Power Weapons, +2A or +2S chose each round before making attacks
Bloodstone: Template, S3 AP3 Assault 1
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power from Pain.
Special Rules: Klavex only
Onslaught: If a Klavex is in the unit, wound roll of 6 by Klavex or Incubus allows for bonus attacks, these cannot produce more attacks.
Murderious Assault: Klavex points at an IC and gains Preferred Enemy against that IC, can be done every assault phase[/color]


Reaver Jetbike
...
WARGEAR: Wychsuit, splinter pistol, close combat weapon, combat drugs.
Reaver Jetbike: +1T and 5+save, built in Splinter Rifle and 36" Turbo Boost
Bladevanes: Turbo Boost over any number of units, select one unengaged, nonvechile unit you have passed over. Each bike does D3 S4 AP- hits. Cover Saves allowed.
Cluster caltrops: Same as above but does D6 S6 AP- hits
Grav-Talon: Same as Bladevanes, D3 S4 AP-, if target suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds it must immediately take a pinning test.
Special Rules: Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders

Hrm. I wonder if the "wych suit" is what gives the wyches their armor/invulnerable save. If so, then it might mean that the Reavers will get the inv save, too. That would drastically increase the usefulness of the jetbikes.

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

The venom could just as easily be reimagined to be more than just a small transport. It might be a variant kit or a stand alone, depending on what GW came up with.

I think if its truely a Harlequin only model, then GW will make it available in the Eldar Codex, but if its more widely available or more of a add-on to a Dark Eldar kit, GW will probably not.

puma713 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

My point here is that if the venom is not currently in the Eldar codex (since I have never looked at that codex), Eldar players would not be allowed to use it just because of it being an option for Harlies in the DE codex.

Agreed. I don't think they'll necessarily be getting retroactively. Then again GW could swing it like the Nightspinner.

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

The only codices that let you use units with a different codex is DH and WH, and the rumors people who matter have all said said allies are being done away with, so why would they make allies rules for Eldar and Dark Eldar. Its fun to wishlist that kind of stuff, but lets not delude ourselves.

Venom doesn't sound like a name for an Eldar vehicle. It sounds too mean for the craftworld types, and the name doesn't bring anything to mind about Harlequins. If it's name sounded Harlequin related then there might be grounds for debate here, but there's no reason to think that a vehicle named after poison would have anything to do with a bunch of jumping clowns.

Some points.

1: I suspect the +2d6 movement is Star Engines. Since the Eldar codex already has such a beast. No disembarking while using Afterburner, guys. I stand by my theory they're going to use the rule they've already posted for a similar benefit.

2: Venom: Wait and see. I lean towards the FA choice that can only carry Harlies, like the Speeder Storm. Since they like "similar units doing similar things" across codexes. Why the venom is only usable for DE? Because all DE attacks come straight out of the Webway in most fluff I've seen. The CW eldar don't usually do raids directly from the WW onto surfaces, they muster through the large portals and then attack. The original Venom from Codex: Harlequin was designed and build like it was to use the webway. Different attack styles use different technology.

3: I'm wondering if the Raven might not be a transport here too. This is my hope, not a start of a rumor. But I'd like to see a closed top falcon-analog for the DE.

The Raven already exists: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-RAVEN-FIGHTER.html
I don't see them reusing the name for no reason. If they were making it what you wanted they'd just make a whole new unit name.

Brother SRM wrote:Venom doesn't sound like a name for an Eldar vehicle.

Venom's were originally built off of a Vyper... if Vyper is fine enough for eldar I think Venom is as well.

I think Creon gives the only defensible 'fluff' based reason as to why they could include a transport for Harlequins in the Dark Eldar codex and not the Eldar codex. The other more logical reason would be, however, that GW didn't include it for the Eldar for 'game-play reasons'/'just didn't care to' and will not now let it cross over for simplicities sake.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

Not to derail, but unless they changed the fluff drastically recently, and GW does do that frequently so I may be wrong about this, but this is more or less incorrect. Harlequins may receive 'gifts' from whoever, but they maintain no affiliation with any Eldar sect. There are no Harlequins that work predominantly with one group more than others. They maintain complete autonomy and supply their own means of carrying out warfare. As the undisputed masters of the webway, they move about craftworlds, exodite worlds-when they are known, the Dark Eldar home, corsair/pirate territory, etc... with equal ease but they are loyal to no one group more than any other. In war they serve their own purposes which at times converge or diverge with other Eldar sects. They are accepted by all types of Eldar as a necessary but mysterious institution--they are guardians of the Black Library and historians of Eldar history and secrets. Fluff-wise, there should be no difference between the two. Whether this will be realized on the tabletop is another matter entirely...

Rymafyr wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

Quite frankly...I see the Venom being a Dark Eldar "exclusive", retconned into being a faster, smaller Raider. Something built to carry small squads of Warriors, Scourges, or Mandrakes into battle.

Like I said earlier:
The Dark Eldar equivalent of a Falcon. Smaller transport capacity than the standard transport(Wave Serpent), but some benefits that outweigh the standard Raider.

My point here is that if the venom is not currently in the Eldar codex (since I have never looked at that codex), Eldar players would not be allowed to use it just because of it being an option for Harlies in the DE codex.

That's a very reasonable expectation. My speculation is simply based on my personal hope that GW was making up for the fact that Harlequins alone don't have access to a dedicated transport in the Eldar codex. In this scenario, GW would be making a special note that the Venom could be purchased by Eldar players as well as unlikely as this may be...

Purple Saturday wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

Not to derail, but unless they changed the fluff drastically recently, and GW does do that frequently so I may be wrong about this, but this is more or less incorrect. Harlequins may receive 'gifts' from whoever, but they maintain no affiliation with any Eldar sect. There are no Harlequins that work predominantly with one group more than others. They maintain complete autonomy and supply their own means of carrying out warfare. As the undisputed masters of the webway, they move about craftworlds, exodite worlds-when they are known, the Dark Eldar home, corsair/pirate territory, etc... with equal ease but they are loyal to no one group more than any other. In war they serve their own purposes which at times converge or diverge with other Eldar sects. They are accepted by all types of Eldar as a necessary but mysterious institution--they are guardians of the Black Library and historians of Eldar history and secrets. Fluff-wise, there should be no difference between the two. Whether this will be realized on the tabletop is another matter entirely...

I've been playing Eldar since 2E, so I don't need you claiming me saying things that I didn't say. Harlequins may work with whomever they like. Some may prefer to work with DEldar, others Eldar, other Exodoes, and so on. There's no Fluff saying that each Harlequin spends his time equally with every other Eldar group they meet.

Harlies are indeed capable of fighting on their own. But if DEldars supply Venoms or whatnot, then that's fine, too. Fluff-wise, they're still Harlequins in the same way that all Spaz Marinz are the same, and from an Eldar POV, there are no differences between one PA-wearing giant and another. I haven't seen any Fluff that says they all fight identically with the same equipment and OOB every single time.

If you've got actual GW Fluff that states that all Harlequins are completely identical, etc, etc, please share the reference.

The Venom was, from the old Gav Thorpe experimental rules, more or less a cheap Raider with a holo-field option and weak guns. Unless they give it some new tricks, it's not really worth getting excited over.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Harlies are indeed capable of fighting on their own. But if DEldars supply Venoms or whatnot, then that's fine, too. Fluff-wise, they're still Harlequins in the same way that all Spaz Marinz are the same, and from an Eldar POV, there are no differences between one PA-wearing giant and another. I haven't seen any Fluff that says they all fight identically with the same equipment and OOB every single time.

If you've got actual GW Fluff that states that all Harlequins are completely identical, etc, etc, please share the reference.

Seriously. At one point Harlequins could have looted Land Raiders.

And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

Kanluwen wrote:And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

And let's not forget skyboards as well.....

And IG had units of jetbikes

My point is that GW changes fluff at will and there's no reason to think that they won't again - consequently, if they want some Harlequins to hang out more with Dark Eldar, that's their business (literally). If they want to make it so other Eldar mainly hang with regular Eldar, that's their choice, too. Arguing over what's canon in GW is liking climbing a mountain of pudding - it may be tasty to do, but you won't make much progress.

And Beastmen!

Ahh, for the return of Beastmen Regiments!

(If GW had rules for them, I would field them)

That fluff has been expunged from imperial records

H.B.M.C. wrote:And here I was thinking that we hadn't seen Ozy in a while.

Ahhhh, did you miss me HBMC?

I've been around, just haven't felt like posting much lately.

The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).


It's no different than my current play style, orks, but what I can I say, I love fighty stuff!

greenbay924 wrote:The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).

I'm not convinced your numbers are right. For a start how does 1.71 6's give 11 more attacks? Shouldn't that be 2 attacks instead?

Secondly, you've ignored the unit champions special demiklave attacks.

Third, I think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm).

So versus marines: 23 attacks (using +2 attacks with demiklave), 15.33 hit, 7.67 wound, 2.55 additional attacks, 1.7 hits, 0.85 wounds. About 8 and a half kills in total.

Okay, okay, your end result was close enough, but still....


Currently Incubi are 25 points. I hope they go down a little each, but I reckon 250-300 points will be fair for a full squad after upgrades.

Edit - got math wrong :(
Edit 2- got English language wrong. Changed what I wrote to say what I meant

They were just rough numbers, I was half paying attention as I wrote the last one, meant to separate the champion's attacks from the rest of the unit's. Yeah, I was just lucky on the end result, but the fact remains, it can cause some serious damage to marines, dreadnoughts also. I was assuming W4 for all those attacks, if it's 5 that's even better. But I wouldn't be surprised if they cost around 25 points each.

Oct. 5th can't get here soon enough (to preorder) and november can't get here sooner after that! Good thing I have college to keep me busy till then...but pretty sure I know what my winter is going to look like.

[quote=LeggyThird, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm). (

You know, that last batch of rumors specifically marks the demiklaive as a power weapon, but not the Klaives. Incubi might not have power weapons anymore.

Skarboy wrote:The Venom was, from the old Gav Thorpe experimental rules, more or less a cheap Raider with a holo-field option and weak guns. Unless they give it some new tricks, it's not really worth getting excited over.

Well, in this codex, you were able to mount a Shadowseer in the Venom. Then veil of tears made it hard for the enemy to target the Venom. Something like, you can't see it (as you need to roll 2D6 times 2) and in the next turn its in your face.

Leggy wrote:

greenbay924 wrote:The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).

I'm not convinced your numbers are right. For a start how does 1.71 6's give 11 more attacks? Shouldn't that be 2 attacks instead?

Secondly, you've ignored the unit champions special demiklave attacks.

Third, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm).

So versus marines: 23 attacks (using +2 attacks with demiklave), 15.33 hit, 7.67 wound, 2.55 additional attacks, 1.7 hits, 0.85 wounds. About 8 and a half kills in total.

Okay, okay, your end result was close enough, but still....


Currently Incubi are 25 points. I hope they go down a little each, but I reckon 250-300 points will be fair for a full squad after upgrades.

Edit - got math wrong :(

The old Incubi statline says WS5 and I5. We haven been told that the basic warrior keep the same statline, that means that a basic warrior still has WS4 I5. I'm not able to imagine Incubi being the same or less than that. I'm pretty confident they will still be WS5 BS4 I5.

Saldiven wrote:[quote=LeggyThird, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormenter helm). (

Then you would be mistaken!!

The current/original Codex: Dark Eldar has Incubi at WS 5 and Initiative 5 with 1 Attack. If, in fact, the only change made to their statline is the number of attacks, then the new Incubi will still have WS and I of 5.

The current Incubi stats are fine. I guess stats and point costs will not change.
It appears they will become Elites (and longer be a retinue) and so it will be possible to field two or three units of them.
Could be an interesting themed army.

Kanluwen wrote:And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

You do know that the the Shuriken Catapult, back in those days at least, wasn't an Eldar weapon - it was as generic as the Bolter or Lascannon.

Well aware of that, HB.

It's ridiculous to expect things to stay the same in a Codex, especially one as old as the Dark Eldar codex. It's even more ridiculous to expect them to maintain pieces of fluff that they've moved past in that codex.

Well, Incubi should stay Incubi.
Its a unit with unique features that none of the other races have, like Pariahs.


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Now I could field two or three units of them in Raiders or Venoms.
That would be bad news for the enemy.

wuestenfux wrote:
Now I could field two or three units of them in Raiders or Venoms.
That would be bad news for the enemy.

That could be about 250-300 points per unit. About half 1500p army. Risky... but sweeet for Apocalypse battles!

Well, three times six Incubi in Venoms would be fine, too.

Kanluwen wrote:It's ridiculous to expect things to stay the same in a Codex, especially one as old as the Dark Eldar codex. It's even more ridiculous to expect them to maintain pieces of fluff that they've moved past in that codex.

Which is why I keep saying "The fluff isn't sacred". Seems no one is listening to us.

I wish more people would. Everyone takes the fluff too damn seriously.

Sidstyler wrote:I wish more people would. Everyone takes the fluff too damn seriously.

Fluff? Dark Eldar? I guess I've missed something.

I meant fluff in general. But yeah.

So anyway, how about them rules?

Three small tidbits that are too uncertain to include in the summary:

1.) Venom is mentioned in the Lelith background info, an indication that it is not limited to Harlequins. Seems to be a separate entry and basically a cheaper Raider with smaller transport capacity for elite and elite and HQ units.

2.) Warriors will get MANY extra special/heavy weapons (Frgt/10).

3.) Razorwing was a Dark Eldar double hull flyer by Forge World that is OOP for quite some time (single hull still available http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-RAVEN-FIGHTER.html ). One poster claimed a Razorwing being HS in the Codex, not sure if it is and if it is this one.

Never seem a Razorwing. Looks interesting.
Could be a mount for two dark lances.

There was a double hull version?

Originally it had a 36" splinter cannon and a single TL Dark Lance for 200 points, so it wasn't exactly broken.

Sidstyler wrote:There was a double hull version?

Yes, after Jes watched "The Emperor strikes back"

Yeah. Like the Cloud City patrol vehicles from Empire Strikes Back.

See, Sid, in the future, having planes with two separate cockpits will be far more efficient and actually less confusing for the people flying the craft.

Kroothawk wrote:Originally it had a 36" splinter cannon and a single TL Dark Lance for 200 points, so it wasn't exactly broken.

Sidstyler wrote:There was a double hull version?

Yes, after Jes watched "The Emperor strikes back"

For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Maybe there is an HQ version with Asdrubal and his ex-wife steering it

wuestenfux wrote:For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Yes, it was a flyer.

Kroothawk wrote:Maybe there is an HQ version with Asdrubal and his ex-wife steering it

wuestenfux wrote:For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Yes, it was a flyer.

For a flyer, the pt costs are acceptable.
I guess then that it will not be in the codex.

Wouldn't be too far-fetched for them to get a "flyer", given the Valkyrie/Vendetta and Storm Raven trend. Would actually be a great ploy to sell expensive models in droves, if they made them as good as Vendettas.

I thought that the Razorwing entry in the rumoured army list was a confusion, so the Raven would be finally included in the codex.

I guess FW discontinued the Razorwing for sales. DE weren't popular, Raven was cheaper and there were other options -probably better- like the Void Dragon Phoenix fighter/bomber.

New plastic kit goodness for Razorwing? Yay!

It will be very cool seeing what this flyer-issue finally results in.

will there be new models for these please?
( would be grateful for a simple yes or no and remembering this is a RULES thread )

Here you go:

2 new units in Heavy Support:
razorwing
Something completely new

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:will there be new models for these please?
( would be grateful for a simple yes or no and remembering this is a RULES thread )

There is rumoured something completely new for the first wave IIRC, but we don't know what it is. So... maybe

thanks chaps
sorry missed that Weusten

Re Twin cockpits
Nothing new under the Sun
Twin Mustang for example? There was a good reason for it, but that was due to work load sharing over long Pacific distances.
Not sure how that applies to hit and run DE raids

or rules for that matter again apologies for the OT comments.

No problem.

The HS section will eventually provide some interesting models.
However, in generally, you can't go out without three Ravagers.
It would have been better to move some of these tanks to FA
unless Ravagers could be taken in squadrons.

Similar for Eldar. I could imagine to see War Walkers in FA.

I don't think we'll see much in the way of walkers in the DE book. They tend to be slow and bulky, whereas the DE are meant to be a fast raiding force in the fluff. I'm pretty sure they'll be limited to skimmer-only type vehicles.

Yeah, this is somewhat negated by deep striking walkers, etc. but it takes time to recover those when you withdraw...

wuestenfux wrote:No problem.

The HS section will eventually provide some interesting models.
However, in generally, you can't go out without three Ravagers.
It would have been better to move some of these tanks to FA
unless Ravagers could be taken in squadrons.

Similar for Eldar. I could imagine to see War Walkers in FA.

To me, it kinda depends on what they do to Scourges. If they can move & fire with dark lances for a not too expensive cost, they will have certain advantages over a Ravager. They could obtain cover saves more easily, could hide more easily, it's much harder to kill the unit with a single shot from a single weapon, etc.

Also, since we don't know any of the rules for any of the HS units right now, it's kind of a stretch to assert that Ravagers will still be the only thing to take.

Scourges were always a strange unit.
Very fast but unable to shoot their dark lances on the move.
Its a kind of contradiction.
They should be moved to the Elite or FA section.

I like scourges. If you think, they are actually a very practical unit. They carry heavy weapons, but are also highly mobile. Their proper playstyle would be to start them in a good position, blast away at the enemy, and when they are no longer in a good overwatch position, jump them to another set of cover with a better field of view.

Just because you CAN move 12" a turn... doesn't mean you should...

No, Scourges have non-fitting rules (fast, but heavy weapons)
and they occupy a HS slot competing with Ravagers. Terrible.

It's a fair point Chaos but I felt that it doesn't fit with the style or the fluff

The reason why they can't seemed to me to be an oversight, maybe a rules balancing at best? But then iirc they ain't cheap.
And when you play Eldar that are leaping on and off the table throwing bombs at you ...

I'm hoping, presumably like everyone else, that the fast but squishy and expensive is going to be addressed in a new cheese free book

Hey. I just looked at the OP again for the most recent update. The OP says that Incubi now have Fleet.

If true, that is a huge upgrade for them. Their lacking of Fleet in the previous codex was on of their limiting factors.

Scourges with heavy weapons?
As soon as the enemy targets them they gonna die.
Scourges with splinter cannons are a different story, say with a Sybarity carrying a terrorfex.
They are good vs hordes.

wuestenfux wrote:Scourges with heavy weapons?
As soon as the enemy targets them they gonna die.
Scourges with splinter cannons are a different story, say with a Sybarity carrying a terrorfex.
They are good vs hordes.

I'd love even more Scourges with Template weapons & squad leader with Terrorfex

Though, cannons are good as long as they don't stay 20 points per model on Scourges :(

The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

I must have missed jump packs getting relentless. This is in the BRB?

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

Um...no.

Jumppacks do not have Relentless. Jetpacks have Relentless.

Tau have Jetpacks. Just about everyone else (except Tyranids who have Wings) have Jumppacks.

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

You are thinking of Jet Packs. Which are a sub-class of Jump Infantry. All Jump Packs are JI. Not all JI have Jump Packs.

IIRC, Scourges are jump infantry and do not have Jump Packs. (P52, BRB)

The rule being relentless would definitely help.
But deep striking them to kill a tank with AP 2 weapons is a gamble.
They will get no meltas anyway.

Vrakk wrote:

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

I must have missed jump packs getting relentless. This is in the BRB?

its in the blackreach tiny book. It is a nice rule to exploit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:

Vrakk wrote:

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

I must have missed jump packs getting relentless. This is in the BRB?

its in the blackreach tiny book. It is a nice rule to exploit.

its also a lance rule wep so tanks only have armor 12 at most only exception is the monolith and a BT landraider with blessed hull

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:

Vrakk wrote:

Cpt. Rusty Hook wrote:The bitching about scourges is pointless. All jump pack equiped minis get the relentless rule. so they can fire darklances on the move. the biggest drawback is the cost 25 points a pop and no wep. yet. the fact that they die with one shot is not helping. i found the best use of them was as a shock value deepstrike in and shred a unit and hope they last the response fire.

I must have missed jump packs getting relentless. This is in the BRB?

its in the blackreach tiny book. It is a nice rule to exploit.

. . .have you read any of the posts above?

well i feel bad now good call on the diffrence of jump-jet pack.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah. Like the Cloud City patrol vehicles from Empire Strikes Back.

See, Sid, in the future, having planes with two separate cockpits will be far more efficient and actually less confusing for the people flying the craft.

More like the TIE Bomber.

Pilot's in one section, bombardier/gunner's in the other. He's sitting on all the heavy munitions too...

Scourges will probably move to FA and get special weapons. Failing that they will be HS but with relentless or else dirt cheap.. one of 3

Just a stupid question from looking at all the pictures of the new raiders...

if your opponent manages to immobilize one, how in the world do you place it on the table with those blades sticking straight down from the center?

Should we just swap to a shorter flying base that puts it right at ground level, or have it lay heavily angled to one side?

What would you do?

I have some black dice that have the "shaken" "immobile" "destroyed" type results written on them, and I have the green token set. I would leave the model alone and put one of these things on an available flat surface.

sarukai wrote:Just a stupid question from looking at all the pictures of the new raiders...

if your opponent manages to immobilize one, how in the world do you place it on the table with those blades sticking straight down from the center?

Should we just swap to a shorter flying base that puts it right at ground level, or have it lay heavily angled to one side?

What would you do?

Read the Rulebook? Immobilized skimmers can be left on their flying stands.

Phototoxin wrote:Scourges will probably move to FA and get special weapons. Failing that they will be HS but with relentless or else dirt cheap.. one of 3

I think the scourges need something to improve their practicality. With a move or shoot setup, they really shouldn't be a Heavy Support choice, more like a fast attack choice. If they however were to get some rule that makes them capable of moving and shooting, maybe at a reduced range or effect, being Heavy Support is justified.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah. Like the Cloud City patrol vehicles from Empire Strikes Back.

See, Sid, in the future, having planes with two separate cockpits will be far more efficient and actually less confusing for the people flying the craft.

Twin mustang was built with a double fuselage. http://www.boeing.com/history/bna/p82.htm
So I guess a double Raven is for extra long flights through the webway.

Over at BoLS, wolflold seems to have dug up some more info:

wolflold wrote:Weapons:

Splinter Rifle 24″ SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.

Shard Carbine 18″ SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.

Splinter Cannon 36″ SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.

Splinter Pods – an underslung weapon for the Hellions similar to the carbine

Blasters - Now 18″ range


Combat Drugs – Supposedly features mostly on Wych Cult units. Roll once. All units with the Combat Drugs rule get the same benefit. One result confers a free pain point.

Haemonculus
May confer a free pain point on units they attach to.

puma713 wrote:Over at BoLS, wolflold seems to have dug up some more info:

wolflold wrote:Weapons:

Splinter Rifle 24″ SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.

Shard Carbine 18″ SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.

Splinter Cannon 36″ SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.

Splinter Pods – an underslung weapon for the Hellions similar to the carbine

Blasters - Now 18″ range



Haemonculus
May confer a free pain point on units they attach to.

Didn't Yak post/clarify those details a few months ago?

pretre wrote:

puma713 wrote:*snip*

Didn't Yak post/clarify those details a few months ago?

Dunno. Since people are starting to get actual sightings of the codex, I consider whatever people post as new information.

Looks like the trend of giving entire portions of an army FNP continues with dark eldar

oh well atleast they're only T3

Kirasu wrote:Looks like the trend of giving entire portions of an army FNP continues with dark eldar

oh well atleast they're on T3

Not to derail, but this probably means that Sisters will get back their stand-up/FNP faith power. Which means that Redemptionists will be viable again! woo.

wuestenfux wrote:No, Scourges have non-fitting rules (fast, but heavy weapons)

Scourges are fine: Jump Packs with Assault 4 weapons - quite good!

I think I have read somewhere that Dark Eldar get jetpacks like the Tau have, would solve the Scourge question.
Only one poster mentioned the Razorwing and something completely new. Would like to have a confirmation on that.

Do you mean Jetpacks like the tau have Kroot.

Um...no.

Jumppacks do not have Relentless. Jetpacks have Relentless.

Tau have Jetpacks. Just about everyone else (except Tyranids who have Wings) have Jumppacks.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Scourges are fine: Jump Packs with Assault 4 weapons - quite good!

It is good. The drawback in the old dex (temporarily still current) was the point cost. The base model was 16 points. Same stats, twice the points as a regular warrior but was jump infantry and could deep strike. To give them a Splinter cannon cost an additional 20 points up to 4, and a dark lance is 25 each up to 4. For the same number of dark lances, you paid 1.5 times the cost of a ravager, which could still move and shoot, upgrade weapons to disintegrators and still be cheaper than the scourges. Hopefully they will fix that or at least make the usefulness more on par with point cost.

@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

That's exactly how I modeled my Scourges and sadly I fielded them only once. Being in the Hvy slot and too costly made me decide to never use them again. This is one of those things that could have easily been corrected early on and would have given more options than 'DL Spam'. Mind you they worked nicely for me the one time I used them, loved the terrorfex or horrorfex...whichever was the troop upgrade.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

But that's not really the issue. The points premium paid for a Scourge was so disproportionate, regardless of how they were armed, that there was never a real reason to field them at all.

Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Do you mean Jetpacks like the tau have Kroot.

Right, fixed my post.

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

kroothawk wrote:

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

Darn I really wanted to know at least the base cost of each unit. Oh well just have to wait for the black box...


On a side note, have we confirmed (or come close to confirming) the profiles of the weapons? So far the 4 things I have heard are:

1) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP2 Lance ----------------If it stays this I'd be ok with it.

2) Dark Lance S8 AP1 Lance, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta ------------- I dont want that Blaster. Against AV14 its = to a meltagun, but against everything else its worse. AP1 Lance is unlikely but i'll take it

3) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP1 Lance-Melta -----------This is what I want the most. Good long range and deadly short range (of course the blaster would be like 15 pts but that's alright)

4) Dark Lance S6 AP1 Lance-Melta, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta --------------This would suck, and I probably wouldn't even play DE if they made it like this unless we got something to compensate. If this really is what they do, Mech Eldar will just walk all over DE without even trying

I would hope the Dark Lance would at least have 36" range.

Ya, I would sell my army if they did Rule #4

fett14622 wrote:Ya, I would sell my army if they did Rule #4

I'd sell my army if they did rule 34

zeekill wrote:

kroothawk wrote:

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

Darn I really wanted to know at least the base cost of each unit. Oh well just have to wait for the black box...


On a side note, have we confirmed (or come close to confirming) the profiles of the weapons? So far the 4 things I have heard are:

1) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP2 Lance ----------------If it stays this I'd be ok with it.

2) Dark Lance S8 AP1 Lance, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta ------------- I dont want that Blaster. Against AV14 its = to a meltagun, but against everything else its worse. AP1 Lance is unlikely but i'll take it

3) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP1 Lance-Melta -----------This is what I want the most. Good long range and deadly short range (of course the blaster would be like 15 pts but that's alright)

4) Dark Lance S6 AP1 Lance-Melta, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta --------------This would suck, and I probably wouldn't even play DE if they made it like this unless we got something to compensate. If this really is what they do, Mech Eldar will just walk all over DE without even trying

Number 2's blaster may be mathmatically worse than a melta for AV<14, but it's extra range compensates. It'll be much easier to get into range to apply the +d6 penetration, especially with the DE's speed.
I can't imagine number 3's blaster ever getting into the game.