Compiled from Seer and the Dakka thread. Old thread was getting a bit cumbersome and long. Credit to Stick/Scryer/Stinger/Blood Of Kittens on Seer for the rumors:
Overview:
My sources are saying GK may be much later this year. Sources say that because the DE release was so successful, that's why we are seeing a shuffling to get more DE models out sooner. More a financial decision than production from what I'm hearing. Hope it's not true.
Further reinforcement of this being a Grey Knight/Inquisition book. Almost all the chatter has died down regarding inducted IG, and allied Space Marines. This is fundamentally said to be an Astartes book with some flavoring added in.
LOTS of new independent characters, and tons of new Grey Knight fluff.
Talk places this codex at the new extreme of "elite" armies, in the 40k metagame diametrically opposed to horde type play.
Talk still points to March 2011 for this one. (Later talk now points to April/May with Orks being released in March)
GK codex WILL NOT have inducted units. Allies are effectively gone!
GK and GKT have plastic kits and will be troop choices.
GKs are Space Marines they do not have Fearless or Stubborn they have Combat Tactics and They Shall Know No Fear
GKs will not have access to most Vanilla Marine Gear especially Heavy Weapons and Special Weapons (No Melta Spamming)
All GKs cause Deep Striking units to mishap if placed within 6 inches of any Grey Knight unit.
All GKs Nemesis Force Weapons are Force Weapons and no longer Str 6.
Grey Knights do get a MC a cross between a Talos and Karamazov Elite choice. The plastic kit is done on this one so expect it with GK launch.
Any GK unit can once per game gate of infinity with no deviation in the movement face and can shoot, but not assault. This could still be changed to become the new Grey Knight Teleport Attack and moved to Fast Attack slot.
There are no more stormtroopers in the codex except for as a inquisitorial henchmen. There is a way to get 2 wound terminators as troops in the codex rocking a 4++ and all basic grey knight troops come with a storm bolter and nemesis force weapon that counds as a power weapon but no bouns to strength and are all psy.
The GK codex has been finalized and is currently at the printers.
What I can say is that there aren't Ecclesiarchy units in Codex: Grey Knights. There are no Penitent Engines, though something similar is there and I didn't see Arco-Flagellants anywhere
Grenades - ALL Grey Knights (even the Termys) are said to have frag & krag, as well as the return of some old chestnuts from the days of yore such as blind and psych-out options ~no idea on what those would do.
The Grey Knights are getting a new unit or they are getting an upgrade that causes an automatic hit to any enemy model in base-to-base with them. This hit wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemies toughness with normal saves allowed and occurs before ALL attacks (think old mandiblasters), but still adds to combat resolution at the end of combat.
Force Organization Chart:
Look for HQs changing the FoC around
GKs do not get Bikes, Jump Packs, or Chaplains
Unlike the Archon’s court from the Dark Eldar Codex Henchman + Witchhunter rejects are Elite slots. These Squads can be mixed and have many options. For instance the Warrior can get Storm Shields and power weapon. Henchman act more like Beast Master Squads than the Archon’s Court.
GKs have access to GK Command Squads giving them access to Apothecaries (FNP)
GKs can pay for + str or rending for their storm bolters
Psycannon is Str 7 rending ap 4 either can fire 2 shots moving or 4 shots standing still. This contradicts the below, so likely one of the two rumors;
From StickMonkey:
Corrected Psycannon profile
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning) Incenerator Str 5 ap 4 rending
Nemesis Force Weapons can be upgrade as well increased initiative is one option.
Q2: What are the possible Troops choices in the Codex?
A: Power Armored Grey Knights and the aforementioned Terminators.
Psy Powers:
Lots of all new psychic powers all around, including Grey Knight Vehicles who are said to be difficult to stop.
All GKs are psyker and their powers act very much in the same way as Psyker Battle Squad.
Holocaust is now 12 inch range large blast
Hammerhand- justicar doubbles strength after modifications so is str 10
?- forget the name but test as a squad and then their storm bolters become str 5 for the turn.
Characters/Special Characters:
Brother-Captain Stern has Eternal Warrior and his attacks can remove models from play.
The Grand Master gives out special abilities to GK units (Not USRs) We are talking weapon upgrades and minor wargear bonuses.
Grand Masters give D3 special powers to Grey Knight units. Things like Digital Weapons, Master Crafted weapons, Wolf Standard, but with GK names.
Their are three special character Inquisitors one of which will make Henchman Troop choices.
One GKs Special character will make Purgation Squads Troops (yes you heard that right) you can spam psycannons all you want.
One GK Special Character can take cheap termies talking Chaos Space Marine Terminator Cheap.
Yep cortez can make henchmen troops, so you can get stormtroopers but they are now bs3 and not nearly as good. crusaders with a marine cost and coming with a pw and ss is much more attractive.
Cortez-the inquisitor if my memory serves me right has a power that makes all henchmen units get a power that makes all deamons re-roll inv saves if within 6" of the unit so deamons are gonna have a very tough time vs gk GK Librarians - Here is where it gets good. We've heard that a wider array of Librarian Ranks are available, some allowing over 2 powers per turn to be used ~Eat your heart out Eldrad! Some of the reported powers included crazy stuff like:
-the lowering of a target unit's toughness! ~Think of what that means for the T:3 races!
-a "Stealth Kustom Force Field" that hands out the USR to all nearby friendlies.
-an "Inverse Gate" to yank a friendly unit from wherever, to right near the libby.
Inquisitors:
Speaking of Inquisitors, they are said to reflect the entirety of the Inquisition (whatever that means), as opposed to the previous codex's "Daemonhunters" focus.
As you would imagine from #2 above a lot of units from the current Daemonhunters codex are missing. Daemonhosts, DeathCult Assassins, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are all supposedly being wrapped into the Inquisitor's retinue options along with all the old favorites. These retinue units have many, many, exotic options (said to easily outstrip the Dark Eldar Archon's retinue options).
Mystic is now only a teleport homer
Henchman include everything Daemonhosts, Death-Cult Assassins, Argo flagellants, Priests, Stormtroopers, Warriors
the other real winner for henchmen are the humans that come with bolters for 5pts or storm bolters for 7pts at bs 3
Assassins:
Vindicare has unlimited ammo for all special shots.
Assassins are in as an Elite slot and any type of GK army can take them.
Callidus Assassin = Long Fangs and Lootas no more. Works like Lictors/Marbo drops a str 4 ap 2 large blast when enters play and can still use the Neural Shredder which is now Str 8 ap 2. T
The other Assassin are just updated versions of their old selves with the Culexus especially devastating to Psykers.
Vindicare assassin is 0-3 and have the special rounds that are quite nasty---BS 8
4d6+rend vs. armor
wound on a 2+
Take inv save away for the rest of the game (One of the weaker rumors, take as you wish)
Loses his night fight rule but still has stealth.
The vindicare does retain his ability to Target models inside units.
Eversor Assassin - This guy is said to get +d6 attacks on the charge, and comes equipped with 2+ poison equipment. ~YIKES, I hope he still blows up when he dies.
Grey Knights:
Grey Knights are around Plague Marine Cost
Q1: How many points are the "standard" Grey Knights in the Codex?
A: Five points more than a Grey Hunter, but this person expects that people will mostly be using the Terminators as Troops who cost as much as a vanilla Terminator.
Grey Knight Terminators:
GKT can mix and match Nemesis Force Weapons and TH/SS and get psy weapons as well.
Grey Knights will be see the return of the 2 wound terminator. These new elite terminators will have 2 wounds and FNP and access to all the upgrades and options of all GKT in the codex. To make things more interesting one special character can make these terminators troop choices. What remains to be seen is if they will get Eternal Warrior…
Dreads/Dreadknight:
They will not get bogged down and there is two versions of the dredknight as i have read the first option will run ya 130pts with a gatling psycannon (heavy 12), and a heavy incinerator gun (fires like a hellhound) and its armed with two dred cca. the second is a dred same as above but also armed with a jump jet which will run 205pts and can move 12" then once per game it can boost to move 30" but may not assault afterward. (One of the weaker rumors, take as you wish)
Dreadnoughts are Heavy Support.
There is a unit in the codex called a "Dreadknight" which is basically a psychically-infused super-terminator that counts as a monstrous creature. It looks sort of like a penitent engine but better. It has a Dreadnought CCW, lots of wounds and 2+ save.
That's because the GK aren't getting a new dread, that rumour is incorrect, It's actually a walker type machine piloted by a GK termie for killing GD
Vehicles:
Stormraven is a GO! It is also said to fulfill a critical role in the codex with the Grey Knight infantry having little access to "traditional" heavy and special weapons found in other Marine books.
The Stormraven is in (duh) and along with Penitent Engines are currently the only two Fast Attacks slots in the dex.
GKs only vehicles options are Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Rhinos, Chimera and Stormraven.
All GK vehicles are immune to Shaken and Stunned (Sacred Hull). Stormraven is not a dedicated Transport. All GK vehicles are psykers with LD 10
Q3: How does the Stormraven differ from the one in Codex: Blood Angels?
A: It's a Fast Attack choice, has a different weapon upgrade and the pilots are psykers (which I took to mean that the Stormraven could either cast or benefit from psychic powers).
Glad to see the return of the uber GK Terminator. The Rogue Trader GK Terminator squad was insane and that's what really interested me in Grey Knights in the first place! So nice to hear about that.
Why would you need meltaguns when you can have str 7 Heavy 4 rending weapons? That will be the best tank hunting weapon in the game, especially if it has a 36" range.
Why would you spoiler the OP? Are you going to click on a "compiled rumors" post in News and say "OH NO! COMPILED RUMORS! I DID NOT WANT TO SEE THIS WHICH IS WHY I CLICKED ON IT!"
DarthDiggler wrote:Why would you need meltaguns when you can have str 7 Heavy 4 rending weapons? That will be the best tank hunting weapon in the game, especially if it has a 36" range.
I don't know, while I can appreciate your point here are my thoughts;
Mobile melta is a staple in 40k right now
12 inch move, 2 inch deploy, 6 inch is a pretty good threat range for double dice Str. 8
Melta can traditionally be spread across multiple FOC selections in SM builds
I can't roll 6s on twin linked Ass Cannons right now...let alone non-linked Psy Cannons!
I have no idea though until the dex hits and I roll some dice with it. Just given my history with armor in 5th...'melta is rare' makes me nervous.
I have always had a deep dark secret of love for the Inquisition (specifically the daemonhunters cuz their models drew me in at a younger age) and this only is leading to good news...
I feel like a vaccine for a deeply annoying disease that has ridden me since childhood is coming out in March...
EDIT: to relavence.
The most intriguing thing will be how all GK can be psykers in some repsect. Hopefully they have some kind of strength in numbers ability like the PBS but do not suffer greatly from it at low numbers but just get different uses for their psychic abilities, creating some system like faith points but with psychic testing for different abilities that do better/worse depending on the number of squad members.
Anyways, I doubt retinues for Inquisitors will be as powerful as the GKs themselves, I really hope they do not. They should be a utility that the DH use in order to be summoned to battle like mystics being homing beacons. Inquisition armies should really just phase out and become an add-on for IG like they have been but in a WD issue would be ideal (but with less "cheesy" effects)
Really cannot wait for this army. Going to have to quickly finish my BA army so it does not have to be put on hold for this new book.
Um... I've missed something... What's a 'Dredknight'? I am assuming it's a GK dreadnaught... but then dreadnaughts are mentioned several other times elsewhere... I am sure it would be far, far too much to hope that we are talking a knight titan lol...
The first two sets of rumors from BoLS and BoK I'm willing to believe due to their standing in the hobby or previous credibility, respectively, but I'm wary of Stingray's.
For an online community that likes to make bad jokes regarding salt I'm surprised how quickly his posts were accepted at fact, especially after describing what sounds more like something out of a show about mecha than a Grey Knights unit.
The reason we are accepting is because these facts have literally shown up all over the place repeatedly. They are worn out and have been closely examined. More importantly, whats a dreadknight?
They are listed as rumors, questioning their validity til someone eyeballs a production codex isn't going to help anything though bhsman. What do you want them to do, close the thread?
Not to get snarky or anything Tom, but if the point of this thread was just to compile rumors then there'd be no need for us to post here in the first place. I've got serious misgivings regarding Stingray's posts, so where better to discuss it?
bhsman - it sounds to ME that you have a more personal grudge against stingray. but that could just be me i dont want to offend you. i have read the rumors and what stingray says sounds a lot like what the others tell so i think there is a hint of truth in it.
i would love too see new GK and march would be awesome as my birthday is in march i too wonder what a dredknight is if its a knight titan i am so on board but that is a bit too far going even for GW... but man i love titans and a knight titan wouldnt be that strong now would he be???
i have heard something about being able too make a 20 model army for 1750 does anybody have heard the same or knows more about this?
Well, 2 wound terminators would definitely make my day. I already have an Inq and a retinue along with 5 GKT and PAGK, so expanding that to playable 1k points shouldnt be that difficult, I hope
Dislike that my Inquisition army will get worse. I am not going to be paying arround £25 for 5 plastic Grey knights (I expect the price to be like that) to be able to have a chance of winning.
Makes me think the a possible WH 'dex will also push my Inquisitors away.
VikingScott wrote:Dislike that my Inquisition army will get worse. I am not going to be paying arround £25 for 5 plastic Grey knights (I expect the price to be like that) to be able to have a chance of winning.
Makes me think the a possible WH 'dex will also push my Inquisitors away.
Dreadknight was an unofficial term given by some forumers at warseer i think, for the new GK walker...in the beginning they were making fun of the name but it just stucked on...so dreadknight = Gk walker
Cheers for the compilation Egos, definitely handy and I was thinking the same thing about the previous thread no longer being easy to read nor news or rumours so I appreciate this...
I would like to say a couple of points:
- IIRC Grey Knights were set for the April/May slot due to something else being confirmed for March - Orks/Gobbo's?
- I remember hearing that the Psycannon was AP3?
- I would place emphasis on the need for salt in regards to the 'Shieldbreaker' or at-least flying Dreadnoughts which I can recall were particularly unconfirmed in the slightest...
You're right about the April/May I updated the rumor roundup. I haven't read anything about AP3 PsyCannons but then again very likely that I missed it. Where was that at?
Agreed about the shieldbreaker/flying Dread, updated with "Take as you wish, weak rumor". Thanks!
Just Dave wrote:Cheers for the compilation Egos, definitely handy and I was thinking the same thing about the previous thread no longer being easy to read nor news or rumours so I appreciate this...
I would like to say a couple of points:
- IIRC Grey Knights were set for the April/May slot due to something else being confirmed for March - Orks/Gobbo's?
- I remember hearing that the Psycannon was AP3?
- I would place emphasis on the need for salt in regards to the 'Shieldbreaker' or at-least flying Dreadnoughts which I can recall were particularly unconfirmed in the slightest...
Just wanted to chime in as well with a thanks for this compilation. 30+ pages is a somewhat daunting task to set out to keep up with.
If I may come with a suggestion, it is that when new rumours surface that you give them red or some such color so it's easily identifiable which batch of rumours is the latest - much like Kroothawk did back in the days of the Dark Eldar codex spoiler thread.
MajorTom11 wrote:Um... I've missed something... What's a 'Dredknight'? I am assuming it's a GK dreadnaught... but then dreadnaughts are mentioned several other times elsewhere... I am sure it would be far, far too much to hope that we are talking aknight titanlol...
Uh oh, now you've done it!
Anyway...
After reading these rumors I'm a bit more hopeful that Codex: GK will retain a lot of usefulness as a 'counts as' codex.
AgeOfEgos wrote:You're right about the April/May I updated the rumor roundup. I haven't read anything about AP3 PsyCannons but then again very likely that I missed it. Where was that at?
Agreed about the shieldbreaker/flying Dread, updated with "Take as you wish, weak rumor". Thanks!
Just Dave wrote:Cheers for the compilation Egos, definitely handy and I was thinking the same thing about the previous thread no longer being easy to read nor news or rumours so I appreciate this...
I would like to say a couple of points:
- IIRC Grey Knights were set for the April/May slot due to something else being confirmed for March - Orks/Gobbo's?
- I remember hearing that the Psycannon was AP3?
- I would place emphasis on the need for salt in regards to the 'Shieldbreaker' or at-least flying Dreadnoughts which I can recall were particularly unconfirmed in the slightest...
Otherwise very good, cheers.
Glad I could help man. In retrospect, it turns out the AP3 thing seems to be a much weaker and probably earlier rumour in comparison to the one you posted. I think the AP3 was before the Blood of Kittens leak.
Nonetheless, the OP of the original thread stated it, I think coming from Stickmonkey:
"Corrected Psycannon profile:
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning)"
is what the other OP posted, but I think it wouldn't be worth putting in the opening post in comparison to the other rumour.
Good Work AoE, I hope you keep this updated as more info (hopefully) comes in.
Gorlack wrote:Just wanted to chime in as well with a thanks for this compilation. 30+ pages is a somewhat daunting task to set out to keep up with.
If I may come with a suggestion, it is that when new rumours surface that you give them red or some such color so it's easily identifiable which batch of rumours is the latest - much like Kroothawk did back in the days of the Dark Eldar codex spoiler thread.
Cheers
Good idea, consider it implemented as new rumors surface. Although, SM specifically stated he's under NDA now...I wonder how long before release those NDAs are set for? Might give a clue on release.
Just Dave wrote:
AgeOfEgos wrote:You're right about the April/May I updated the rumor roundup. I haven't read anything about AP3 PsyCannons but then again very likely that I missed it. Where was that at?
Agreed about the shieldbreaker/flying Dread, updated with "Take as you wish, weak rumor". Thanks!
Just Dave wrote:Cheers for the compilation Egos, definitely handy and I was thinking the same thing about the previous thread no longer being easy to read nor news or rumours so I appreciate this...
I would like to say a couple of points:
- IIRC Grey Knights were set for the April/May slot due to something else being confirmed for March - Orks/Gobbo's?
- I remember hearing that the Psycannon was AP3?
- I would place emphasis on the need for salt in regards to the 'Shieldbreaker' or at-least flying Dreadnoughts which I can recall were particularly unconfirmed in the slightest...
Otherwise very good, cheers.
Glad I could help man. In retrospect, it turns out the AP3 thing seems to be a much weaker and probably earlier rumour in comparison to the one you posted. I think the AP3 was before the Blood of Kittens leak.
Nonetheless, the OP of the original thread stated it, I think coming from Stickmonkey:
"Corrected Psycannon profile:
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning)"
is what the other OP posted, but I think it wouldn't be worth putting in the opening post in comparison to the other rumour.
Good Work AoE, I hope you keep this updated as more info (hopefully) comes in.
Ahh, well if it's from SM that's pretty solid. I'll update the post and thanks!
All the rumors sound great! Can't wait to see the new GK kits and the storm raven. Weird that they took away the str 6 from my GK, really enjoyed that, always added a nice punch against MC.
VikingScott wrote:Dislike that my Inquisition army will get worse. I am not going to be paying arround £25 for 5 plastic Grey knights (I expect the price to be like that) to be able to have a chance of winning.
Makes me think the a possible WH 'dex will also push my Inquisitors away.
Bah humbug.
Aye, if those Inquisition hints are accurate I would guess that strongly indicates 'Witch Hunters' will return to the 'Sisters of Battle' format it had been previously, as folks have been rumouring for a while now.
What I don't like so far: the loss of S6 NFW. I would much rather all PAGK had S6. The idea of our regular troops needing force weapons is a bit silly since they will probably mainly be coming up against 1 wound troops.
Power weapons for all PAGK is obviously good news but I would rather keep the S6 across the board.
Psycannons being 2 shots on the move and 4 standing still: Ok, for PAGK, that's a big difference but, for GKT who could already move and fire, I would prefer the old 3 shots either way.
What I like: Vindicare 0-3. If the rumours about the shield breaker and AV are true then 3 of these bad boys in your army would be awesome, especially since you can move GKT to troops.
I think the problem with the Knightwing is going to be cost. They say it will be like CSM cheap but they are going to make you pay dearly for every upgrade you buy such as psycannons, FNP, especially th/ss. I really hope that does not become the downfall of Knightwing.
Really hoping, though, that an all termie list will be able to make a decent fight cuz the termie models now are amazing and the plastic kits are already on the birthday wish list.
yah a termie army with out the use of a special character would be awesome. i dont like using special characters i find my own home made character special enough
Here's a rumor (rumour if you prefer) for you. Tomb Kings are getting the fast track due to their incompatibilities with 8th edition WFB and Grey Knights will therefore be shifted more toward spring, perhaps June. I have no corroborating evidence in this case, but it is at least plausible.
Hmm, a lot of the current rumors attached to this actually support the idea that this is actually supposed to be an 'elite' low numbers army. The way this comes across is that you pay for the upgrades or for a few more models, but little room to compromise. A 'Knightwing' army sounds more and more viable as I think about it, especially with the idea of 2 wound Termies.
As for the Dreadknight, it really sounds at least fluff-wise as GW finally getting a finger on what they do to GKs that aren't quite dead enough to interr on Titan. Strap a mangled and angry psyker marine to a sweet machine of death and let him go forth to meet his destiny. Modeling wise...could this be a shared kit with the Furioso Librarian, or at least a good way to set one up?
All I can say is, well, BITZ FOR THE BITZ CAN at the end of it all. More Marine models to assimilate is always great for me.
BrassScorpion wrote:Here's a rumor (rumour if you prefer) for you. Tomb Kings are getting the fast track due to their incompatibilities with 8th edition WFB and Grey Knights will therefore be shifted more toward spring, perhaps June. I have no corroborating evidence in this case, but it is at least plausible.
Seems unlikely to me. It would put the two 40k codices seven months apart while WHFB gets two in a row, and don't see why GW would do that for the sake of their least original army at the expense of the plastic Grey Knight terminators.
Yeah, that's never happened before, they'd never do that. Oh, wait...
Look, anything is possible, I'm just passing along a rumor. They've already apparently tweaked their release schedule at what passes for late in the day a few times recently. One thing's for sure, since they've already announced Jan.-March 2011 and no GK in there, April to June is the earliest anyway.
Yet TK arent incompatible with 8th. Theyre actually stronger than ever, as their greatest asset (reliable magic) has been increased in relative power. Hell, they can even cast spells with the right item AND still incant....
AlexHolker wrote:for the sake of their least original army
yeah cose the dont have a other space marine book................ there are 100000000000000000000000000000000 milion space marine codexes out there and you call the TK army not original? there is no army that takes on the awesomness of the acient egyptiens.
so i diasagree with you.
my apoligies on the hars out come but i really dont intent any harm or want too upset you i am just trying too make a point (and a lot of spelling errors)
I too have a small quantity of old DH stuff thats been gathering dust for far too long. Really enjoying the build up to this, thanks for gathering all the rumours together
sphynx wrote:No storm troopers as troop choices? i am dissapoint.
Remember sphynx - this is 5th Ed! You're no longer allowed to just play the army you used to have. Now you need a special character to play the army you want.
AlexHolker wrote:for the sake of their least original army
yeah cose the dont have a other space marine book................ there are 100000000000000000000000000000000 milion space marine codexes out there and you call the TK army not original? there is no army that takes on the awesomness of the acient egyptiens.
Except, you know, the Ancient Egyptians.
sphynx wrote:No storm troopers as troop choices? i am dissapoint.
Stormtroopers In Name Only are, if you take Coteaz.
I'm stoked for it. I even sold my metal GK army off so I could collect the new plastics. Sold it last year around the first rumblings since I wanted to get a decent price on it
I can't wait! The pretty, pretty models have always had a place in my heart and now it might actually be usable against other armies!
no storm troopers? aw. Go do IG. next! I am happy of the no ISTs. i'm fed up of
"I do GK"
"really? cool! how many TAGK's do you have?"
"None! all stormtroopers"
""
"what?"
"why don't you just do IG?"
"because GK are cool"
"then why not do GK?!"
"I do"
""
"what?"
" you."
Alright, seems like I am going to have to wait for some plastic greyknights, and the dreadknight looks like fun. *Sigh* I thought I would have some money in my wallet this year.
it's happening next year. My christmas money's getting tipped into the giant hole which is DKoK and heresy-era raven guard, my march-time b-day money's getting tipped into the GK hole.
shrike wrote:no storm troopers? aw. Go do IG. next! I am happy of the no ISTs. i'm fed up of
"I do GK"
"really? cool! how many TAGK's do you have?"
"None! all stormtroopers"
""
"what?"
"why don't you just do IG?"
"because GK are cool"
"then why not do GK?!"
"I do"
""
"what?"
" you."
Some of us cant afford to do IG, but DH was MUCH cheaper and easier to do. Plus, more conversions.
I can't normally, but just buy a few russes, and presto! my 1500 point steel legion army consists of 3 LR's, yarrick, a basilisk, sentinel, 2 veteran squads and a CCS (along with a priest and some other stuff I won't bother to mention).
Ugh...If PAGK are the same cost as Plague Marines.....You WILL be able to spam them. Any CSM player will tell you that. Fortunately, PAGK don't seem as good as plague marines.
Is that re-rollable armor save rumour still floating around? What about the Artificier armor rumour?
Sorry for only getting to these now, I blame Orange Beach.
fatty wrote:bhsman - it sounds to ME that you have a more personal grudge against stingray. but that could just be me i dont want to offend you. i have read the rumors and what stingray says sounds a lot like what the others tell so i think there is a hint of truth in it.
No worries, no offense taken. My point is kinda what you said: He seems to be just taking the info from Blood of Kittens and basing stuff off of that. The bit about the 'Dreadknight' makes it sound more at home in a new Tau codex than the Grey Knights. It sounds more like we'll be getting a Penitent Engine (as an MC) going by BoK's rumors rather than what Stinger says. The guys just doesn't have a track record to speak of and some of what he's posting just sounds, well, unsound.
AlexHolker wrote:And? They're both supposed to be reading the same book, why wouldn't they be seeing the same things?
And you don't believe for a minute, especially after the Blood Angels leaked 'codex' from last year, that he might be just making stuff up?
lol, all this talk of rumours, I just got reminded of my friend- at school, they put in some stupid rule about "no rumours", that anyone caught spreading rumours would be given a detention...
my friend, before this rule officially happened was telling everyone how he had overheard a teacher talking about this rule- the rumour spread and my friend got detention. Punished for rumouring the existence of the rule that punished rumouring...how ironic...
shrike wrote:no storm troopers? aw. Go do IG. next! I am happy of the no ISTs. i'm fed up of
"I do GK"
"really? cool! how many TAGK's do you have?"
"None! all stormtroopers"
""
"what?"
"why don't you just do IG?"
"because GK are cool"
"then why not do GK?!"
"I do"
""
"what?"
" you."
"Grey Knights" isn't (at least today) a Codex. The theoretical guy in your example plays Daemonhunters. You should be able to ignore hum, as he just did the functional equivalent of saying "I play Wave Serpents!" to describe his all-on-foot Eldar list.
I'd say with the current books, if you say SoB you better have some nuns with guns in your list, and if you say GK you better have some super-duper Space Marine types. (even if they have help from ISTs, Inqusitors, etc.)
Deadshane1 wrote:For all those in the past/present/future that will whine about not being able to use their current armies with the new dex.
Stop crying.
Why?
Not every Daemonhunter player plays Grey Knights, and all of those players are about to have their armies reduced to 'Henchman', and require a Special Character to turn them into Troops.
It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there that are amazed when there are people out there upset that their army (the product of a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money) is about to be rendered unplayable (maybe) and/or greatly changed when a new Codex arrives.
DOUBLY so for something as unique and individual as the two Inquisition Codices.
Should we be surprised when GW does this?
No.
Should we be a bit more sympathetic to those going through it?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Not every Daemonhunter player plays Grey Knights, and all of those players are about to have their armies reduced to 'Henchman', and require a Special Character to turn them into Troops.
Leagues better than not having it at all, however. A Stormtrooper by any other name will be just as awesome.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Updated---Vindicare still retains his ability to target specific models in units.
If they lost this ability in the new codex, why would anyone take them since anyone who knows you have one will simply stick their HQ in a blob of meatshields. The vindicare only need a few minor tweaks like all the other assassins to update them and maybe a points revision, that's about it. However I wouldn't like for them to become so dirt cheap (below 100pts) they would be included multiple times in every list...just goes against the whole 'working alone' aspect of their fluff. Also, who'd need more than one vindicare on the battlefield anyway if it was a low points game unless they were going for extreme cheese?
Alpharius wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there that are amazed when there are people out there upset that their army (the product of a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money) is about to be rendered unplayable (maybe) and/or greatly changed when a new Codex arrives.
DOUBLY so for something as unique and individual as the two Inquisition Codices.
Should we be surprised when GW does this?
No.
Should we be a bit more sympathetic to those going through it?
Yes.
Thanks Alpharius. I guess I will just have to play the old witchhunters book now, or buy some greyknights so I can make my elite slot with stormtroopers. I HATE using named characters, so people saying "You can take them if you take (Insert named character here)" dont help.
AlexHolker wrote:for the sake of their least original army
yeah cose the dont have a other space marine book................ there are 100000000000000000000000000000000 milion space marine codexes out there and you call the TK army not original? there is no army that takes on the awesomness of the acient egyptiens.
Except, you know, the Ancient Egyptians.
yes but if you want too take it that way.
Empire is based off germany
dark elves are based off Holland united East trading company and pirats so are dark eldar
space wolfs are based off norwegen/vikings
IG are based of ww2 companies
ogre kindoms are based off japanese mytholiagy ( i know wrong spelling) just as skaven
in the fluff of fantasy you have the island of Nippon which is japanese for Japan
bretonnia is based off france/english
and so the list goes on. with original i mean that there isnt another codex about the race out there. not that they are originaly thoughed up by GW. and be honest how many space marine codexes are there? and yes i find the DH a cross between space marines and imperial guard.
It depends upon which one, who doesn't have a clue, you speak to.
Not a single part of this thread is confirmed as true; it is all speculation and hype and conjecture with people quoting as fact what a friend told a friend who heard from his friend.
It would be extremely funny if the next release was Necrons or Orks just to see the extremeism of those who purport to know the truth burst blood vessels in rage.
At first I was excited that the rumors were being compiled and maybe leaning towards a little more "truth" that GK were going to be the next release. Now, I get excited to watch those of us who have no clue but think we have a clue about a clue concerning the clue that GW is going to release the GK next. Even better are those of us that get angry and defense and then post it when others dont fall in step with perception instead of fact. (I realized I just confused myself).
Note: If your going to post a rumor, please, please put down a reference and not another GW redshirt guy said this, or my brothers aunt's, cousin, step-brother's brother-in-law, once heard that GK were next. At least if you have a legit reference, we can give you less crap about it not being or being true.
shrike wrote:no storm troopers? aw. Go do IG. next! I am happy of the no ISTs. i'm fed up of
"I do GK"
"really? cool! how many TAGK's do you have?"
"None! all stormtroopers"
""
"what?"
"why don't you just do IG?"
"because GK are cool"
"then why not do GK?!"
"I do"
""
"what?"
" you."
Father Gabe wrote:Note: If your going to post a rumor, please, please put down a reference and not another GW redshirt guy said this, or my brothers aunt's, cousin, step-brother's brother-in-law, once heard that GK were next.
If you are going to post a rumour, please give full name and address of the leak, so the GW guys reading this thread can immediately fire said person Thanks for helping GW to improve its viral anti-marketing campaign
yes but if you want too take it that way.
Empire is based off germany
dark elves are based off Holland united East trading company and pirats so are dark eldar
space wolfs are based off norwegen/vikings
IG are based of ww2 companies
ogre kindoms are based off japanese mytholiagy ( i know wrong spelling) just as skaven
in the fluff of fantasy you have the island of Nippon which is japanese for Japan
bretonnia is based off france/english
Well yea
Never heard of the holland part. i thought they're just evil elven pirates
Dont forget that they are Space Marines and are werewolves in space IG are based off of any human force. From stone age to cyberpunk dystopia. That doesnt make them any more original though I suppose
Ogres have a distinct Mongolian twist to them methinks with their raids to cathay. Plus they're powered by space radiation or something Dont forget Cathay and Indus. Heck we also have Araby. Cant get more original than that
And a bunch of King Arthur. Legends of some english king from anywhere between the fall of rome to the 1400's, romanticized by french authors. They're probably being mind controlled by Wood Elves though. If the fluff hasnt been outdated yet the coastal areas are more inclined to the British Empire of the sea with the best navy in the old world and ports all the way to cathay
AgeOfEgos wrote:Updated---Vindicare still retains his ability to target specific models in units.
If that rumor of "Loses Inv. save for the game" is true.....freaking ouch.
Iron Halos, Thunder Lord Storm Shields/Belt of Russ, Daemon Princes (Especially Tzeentch), Sanguinor, Hidden beatsticks inside units...etc
I think you missed, ASSUMING THAT THE SHEILDBREAKER RUMOUR IS TRUE, the units that will suffer most from this rule:
- Eldar Farseers (Eldrad), who not only rely on non-conventional invulnerable saves (screwed by Imperial tech how?!) but this is their only save.
- Dark Eldar Archons, 2++ save = gone. Much more fragile without it.
Father Gabe wrote:Note: If your going to post a rumor, please, please put down a reference and not another GW redshirt guy said this, or my brothers aunt's, cousin, step-brother's brother-in-law, once heard that GK were next.
If you are going to post a rumour, please give full name and address of the leak, so the GW guys reading this thread can immediately fire said person Thanks for helping GW to improve its viral anti-marketing campaign
yes they are. My only hopes are:
Doesn't become as ey as SW and BA Doesn't make me TFG Doesn't gather lots of noobs from SM If the Vindicare has the shieldbreaker rule...ouch.
If most of the rumours are true, my army will consist of:
Well, my prayers for tonight will be IG, Necrons or any other darned race just so I can watch several hundred people crying like babies about how unfair it is and how GW obviously hate everybody.
Ebay here we come as people sell their GK in disgust! Oh yes, 1 squad of GK terminators for a penny. Back of the net!
shrike wrote:no storm troopers? aw. Go do IG. next! I am happy of the no ISTs. i'm fed up of
"I do GK"
"really? cool! how many TAGK's do you have?"
"None! all stormtroopers"
""
"what?"
"why don't you just do IG?"
"because GK are cool"
"then why not do GK?!"
"I do"
""
"what?"
" you."
+100000000000
Hey shrike. Heard you like Raven Guard. Want to take Assault marines as troops? You could use the BA codex, but too bad! Use the SM book!
Honestly, us inquisition players wanted to play fun armies with lots of customization. They were small, they hit hard, and no two armies looked the same. The fact that they invalidated another army type kinda leaves people like me and HBMC in the dust. What if this was with another codex, like an all assault squad BA army (Hypothetically). Would it be fair to the people who had put time and money into that all assault squad army, as well as painting them as BA, to say "Well, go play SM then and stop whining". No, it wouldn't. Be nice to the people who have essentially had their army invalidated.
yes but if you want too take it that way.
Empire is based off germany
dark elves are based off Holland united East trading company and pirats so are dark eldar
space wolfs are based off norwegen/vikings
IG are based of ww2 companies
ogre kindoms are based off japanese mytholiagy ( i know wrong spelling) just as skaven
in the fluff of fantasy you have the island of Nippon which is japanese for Japan
bretonnia is based off france/english
Well yea
Never heard of the holland part. i thought they're just evil elven pirates
Dont forget that they are Space Marines and are werewolves in space IG are based off of any human force. From stone age to cyberpunk dystopia. That doesnt make them any more original though I suppose
Ogres have a distinct Mongolian twist to them methinks with their raids to cathay. Plus they're powered by space radiation or something Dont forget Cathay and Indus. Heck we also have Araby. Cant get more original than that
And a bunch of King Arthur. Legends of some english king from anywhere between the fall of rome to the 1400's, romanticized by french authors. They're probably being mind controlled by Wood Elves though. If the fluff hasnt been outdated yet the coastal areas are more inclined to the British Empire of the sea with the best navy in the old world and ports all the way to cathay
well the dark elves do import stuff like slaves, food, clothing from differet parts of the world just like the old hollanders did with boat very important boats. the ogres are part of japanese bedtime stories if you dont listen too your parents or wonder of in the night the ogres will get down from there mountains and eat you.
Elmodiddly wrote:It depends upon which one, who doesn't have a clue, you speak to.
Not a single part of this thread is confirmed as true; it is all speculation and hype and conjecture with people quoting as fact what a friend told a friend who heard from his friend.
It would be extremely funny if the next release was Necrons or Orks just to see the extremeism of those who purport to know the truth burst blood vessels in rage.
Id be quite happy if it was Necrons. As much as Im looking froward to the new GKT plastics, Im nto building an army og GK, but I am Necrons.
I doubt that, unless you have to cast them each turn with a chance of damage to the vehicle? It may negate stunned and shaken, but 13-13-11 dreadnoughts, and what could possibley be 15-15-15 land raiders (is that against the rules?) as well as 13-11-11 chimeras, to OP, unless its like a 30 point vehicle upgrade.
guys- should I get a squad of the current metal TAGK? I know plastics are coming out, but I love the models!
Worth it? Will the models be different? I doubt it, since they are GW's best minis, but still...
shrike wrote:guys- should I get a squad of the current metal TAGK? I know plastics are coming out, but I love the models!
Worth it? Will the models be different? I doubt it, since they are GW's best minis, but still...
Bad Idea, the new models will be even better. Go take a look at some Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard, and know that GK will look awesome. Current TAGK are smaller than what the plastics will be, they may look out of place. If you are found wanting after the release, by all means buy them (and eat a bolt to the face from the nearest commissar ) but wait for now, I implore you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also believe the models HAVE to be different, even if its only slight. Metal casts cannot be used for plastic miniatures. Correct if wrong.
Unlikely that they will be the same, likely to be just as awesome and featuring the same basic poses and ALL the old GK stuff like the TAGK shouldershield and the little sword on the centre of their chest and such. Worry not. All is well.
shrike wrote:guys- should I get a squad of the current metal TAGK? I know plastics are coming out, but I love the models!
Worth it? Will the models be different? I doubt it, since they are GW's best minis, but still...
Bad Idea, the new models will be even better. Go take a look at some Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard, and know that GK will look awesome. Current TAGK are smaller than what the plastics will be, they may look out of place. If you are found wanting after the release, by all means buy them (and eat a bolt to the face from the nearest commissar ) but wait for now, I implore you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also believe the models HAVE to be different, even if its only slight. Metal casts cannot be used for plastic miniatures. Correct if wrong.
Unlikely that they will be the same, likely to be just as awesome and featuring the same basic poses and ALL the old GK stuff like the TAGK shouldershield and the little sword on the centre of their chest and such. Worry not. All is well.
Cant wait to chop up some CSM with them!
Ill agree with you on a couple things. The new TAGK will be nice, no doubt. Ill say changes wont be huge, but will be noticeable. They should be similar enough to use together. On that note i say get some metal ones if you like them, but save some $$ for the new ones too.
As far as using the molds...you can probably pour melted plastic into a mold meant for metal, but I doubt it would work well. You CAN NOT put a mold meant for metal into a plastic injection molding machine. First, the mold has to be made to fit and mount in the machine. Second...most metal is molded under very low pressure, if any. Plastic is injected into a mold at pressures sometimes exceeding 25,000 psi. That kind of pressure would blow a mold meant for metal into pieces.
Only me wondering where the Grey Knight techmarines went hiding?
All SM have tecchies to tend to vehicles in and outside of combat so what happens with GK vehicles (that are undoubtedly even more advanced/rare/important) that get damaged in the field?
What GK character tends to those?
shrike wrote:good point. orks have 'em, IG have 'em, SM have 'em, SW have 'em, BA have 'em- why don't GK have 'em?
I seem to remember that full Mechanicus implants interefere with psychic abilities and that is probably why Grey Knights have no tech marines. Its probably that and the fact that Titan isn't too far from Mars, the heart of the Mechanicum. That said they might pick up a tech priest profile like the IG have.
Jaon wrote:I doubt that, unless you have to cast them each turn with a chance of damage to the vehicle? It may negate stunned and shaken, but 13-13-11 dreadnoughts, and what could possibley be 15-15-15 land raiders (is that against the rules?) as well as 13-11-11 chimeras, to OP, unless its like a 30 point vehicle upgrade.
The rumor was that the vehicle could cast 'Blessed Hull' on itself and increase one facing by +2 AV, to a maximum of 14.
The GKs are spread out thin across the whole galaxy, thus only a small part is located near mars itself or even near any other forgeworld for that matter.
Most are part of kill teams guarding various hotspots and/or traveling in strike cruisers far from home.
The second issue is survivability.
A mere techpriest or enginseer or tech servitor would probably not last the coarse of one single "typical GK engagement. Those techpriests/enginseera ARE normal humans and would die from wounds or simply go raving mad from the exposure to the demonic that they would undoubtedly be exposed to while tending GK vehicles in the field on battle.
Simply put, having "normal" humans or servitors tending GK vehicles in battle far from home would be to unreliable. Only a GK could be relied on to perform vehicle maintenance during a GK engagement in the middle of the battle.
Thus the question still stands, who takes care of the GK vehicle pool and wargear such as advanced repairs etc when most of the GKs and their allocated vehicle pool spends long time far from home and the coozy mars factories and also does so while still being able to survive the physical and psychological horrors of GK combat?
fatty wrote:dark elves are based off Holland united East trading company and pirats so are dark eldar
Did you make this up yourself
To be honest I don't see any trading company resemblances.
kind off this is a product of me and some fellow outriders. we wanted too know from which cultures armies where made.
and the united east trading company was my translation of de verenigde oost inndische company VOC.
I am worried about price wise. $$$ Especially if this is going to be an Elite low count army, we will be paying through the roof for the minis. So I am guessing the prices will be metal prices for plastic.
Doubt TAGK will cost the same as they currently do, but Its my guess they will cost more than normal termies because they will be bigger.
Btw someone not so long ago said they didnt like the Sanguinary Guard models because their Glaives were to varied. I agree, but that wasnt the point...
The point is, they were done with a lot of fine detail and are very realistic, well sized, and overall nice looking models. The modellers for the new TAGK will be sticking to the GK way and we can probably expect to see no more variation than Halberds and Swords (TH/SS?). My point was the models will not be gakky.
Ya, luckily i'm the only one who plays GK/Inq at my FLGS *Whipes forehead* and since the guys and gals there aren't into switching armies very often... I shouldn't have much to worry about, but the 'Nids race as a whole died inside... Then again, psychic tests do have to be passed on 3d6, but it still only helps so much...
crazypsyko666 wrote:Am I misunderstanding this? Does this mean EVERY NFW counts as a Force Weapon?
If it ends up being spot-on, it probably means it'll go something like this:
-Grey Knights make their attacks and wound
-Squad as a whole passes a psychic test (a la Psyker Battle Squads)
-Their wounds cause Instant Death
I misread it. It reads that NFWs will be power weapons instead of 6 str. I'm wondering if that implies ALL of their units with NFW+SB now have power weapons, which is what it sounds like. Ridiculous, to say the least.
I highly doubt that PAGK can gain any way of getting instant death, maybe on a roll of a 6 their sarg can or something, not sure, but it wouldnt be "pass psychic test to make all attacks instant death" would it?
In the GK one- 1:00- "but even the most faithful inquisitors need to call for aid whe the treat is too dire"
"THE TREATS ARE TOO DIRE! WE NEED REINFORCEMENTS!" sounds like young sherlock all over again...
what DoW game is that?
sorry to drift OT, but i've installed it, but every time I click on the program it loads up the installation thing again. I click install, it says it's been installed, goes to an advert, I close the advert, click on the program and it comes up with the installation again!!!
Look, Power Armor is Prevelant, I am biased, because I play GK and SM scouts. At any rate, how would you feel if they skipped your race for another, or delayed it beyond belief? *Points at DE*
Aside that, I can see why your upset/annoyed. BUT Space Marines and their independants will be updated, and while you can be angry at GW, it will not delay the inevitable.
More updates thanks to Katie Drake over on Heresy Online. Updated the rumor roundup, new rumors in red----some specificity about GK Power Armor cost, Storm Raven FOC, etc.
On the dread-like vehicle, Im not sure whether your talking dreadknight or dreadnought, but without a doubt there will be dreadnoughts. To all those fewls saying "GK dont use dreadnoughts" your wrong, they just dont like using them, they still have them.
On the dreadknight (note that is the internet name given to it, because its pretty much a monstrous creature GKT in my imagination, but I find its existence unlikely) there is little we know, but on the dreadNOUGHT, there are a number of interesting little tibits:
The GK dreadnought plastic kit will also include options for BA (bloodfists, bloodtalons, magna-grapple, all those)
The GK DN will have a souped up psycannon that is potentially weaker but fires faster, or maybe its the same stats with a higher rate of fire. In any case, the rate of fire can be put somewhere between 5 - 12, as rumours hold it. Its stats are rumoured to be str 7 ap 4 rending, which, in a way, discounts 12 shots, because that could EASILY shred a land raider. If it is indeed a psycannon and not something like a punisher gatling cannon or an assault cannon, then it will most likely ignore invulnerable saves.
The GK DN will also possess a weapon not much different to the hellhound inferno cannon, in the fact that you place the template within 12' (or whatever the range will be, most likely 6' - 12' ) and turn it. This I suspect will be much like an Incinerator, but probably with an added one strength, although it is safe to say that it will 100% be ap 4, ap 5 is underpowered, ap 3 inferno cannon would be the doom of all, and you would see 3 in every single list. So summary on that is that its most likely Str 6 ap 4 range 12 place the template, but these are just rumours. It could quite possibley stay at str 5, but what deters me from believing this is that it IS a tank mounted weapon. No doubt it will ignore invulners.
Its probably also safe to assume that the GK dreadnought will receive all the upgrades it used to have, although take note they may not be in the plastic kit (I.e TL autocannons)
So the DNs options will most likely be as followed: rumoured psycannon arm, rumoured incinerator arm, assault cannon, lascannon, twin linked heavy bolter, twin linked autocannon , multimelta, plasma cannon. These are all in edition to the usual close combat arm with storm bolter on it (Is it possible to get incinerators on a GK DN CCW? only time will tell)
While we are on the subject of flame weapons, It is probably safe to say that any GK units in the codex that have a template weapon also ignore invulnerables with it. (meaning ISTs do not, because they are not grey knights) So based on this fact, will the redeemer flame storm cannons not ignore inv saves? And wouldnt it be just awesome if both the flamestorm cannons acted like inferno cannons!
AgeOfEgos wrote:More updates thanks to Katie Drake over on Heresy Online. Updated the rumor roundup, new rumors in red----some specificity about GK Power Armor cost, Storm Raven FOC, etc.
Thank you for the repeated updates. I'm not much of a Marine fan but I do like me the Grey Knight concept.
Samus_aran115 wrote:That super terminator thing sounds like an obliterator to me....I'm expecting it to be as big
It would be interesting if they were bigger/badder than normal GKTs Something like a Super Shredder version of them.
Thanks for that memory. Anyone else notice that the mutagen not only made him huge, but bulked up his armor too? Crazy, right?
On topic - I can't wait. I hope this gives SW a run for their money, because I am getting a bit tired of their Codex sitting on the top. I know that is petty and childish, but what can I say, I am tired of the Wolves.
GKT as Troops? Yes, please. Can't wait to see how absurdly elite I can make the army and I really can't wait for some preview models to crop up.
"Q1: How many points are the "standard" Grey Knights in the Codex?
A: Five points more than a Grey Hunter, but this person expects that people will mostly be using the Terminators as Troops who cost as much as a vanilla Terminator."
Waaa...? So, 2-Wound, Psychic-Power-Casting Terminators are going to cost the same as Vanilla Terminators? Somehow, I doubt it. However, if, by some wacky stretch of GW's 'Make the new Codex the r0xorZ' initiative, this turns out to be true, then... I may have to start a second All-Terminator Army...
They arent 2 wound, but they are nominally better. You are thinking of what the rumours are calling Paladin Terminators, a special honourguard like squad of terminators you can have, you can only have one squad of them, and they have 4++ invs and 2 wounds.
Ok couple things I have picked up on, not neccesarily new, but interesting points to discuss
GKs can pay for +str or rending for their storm bolters
Im thinking the rending rounds are psycannon bolts, the same upgrade in the current codex, but instead of ignoring inv saves, rends. On one side, AP5 ignoring invulnerable save (the original rounds) is good against daemons, and Rending is useless against daemons (the rumoured rounds), but on the other, GK do kill non daemon heretics too. The +str is either false, or another special type of round. What is intriguing is that added strength to a stormbolter is beneficial when fighting daemons, but psycannon rounds already existed to slay daemons. The +str is anti daemon, the rending rounds are maybe designed to be anti chaos marine? Who can tell. Whats worrying is this whole rending rumour. Rending could have actually totally replaced "Ignores Invulnerable", and that would make sense of the rending storm bolter rounds, they are the old Psycannon rounds, but instead of ignoring ++, are rending. As I said earlier, doesnt make sense when fighting daemons, rending is useless against them.
Nemesis Force Weapons can be upgrade as well (increase initiative is one option).
So I suspect all gk start with swords, and for maybe 10ppm (points per model) they may upgrade that sword to a halberd, which is increased Initiative. A different rumour was that swords were 2+ str, halberds were 2+ ini, but who knows, rumours say NFW no longer grant extra strength, which is a shame, but can cause instant death. More or less rumours on NFWs are quite cloudy. Im quite perplexed as to what NFW do globally anymore, are they extra str, do they rend, or are they instant death on a 6? They couldnt be could they? Time will tell.
GKT can mix and match Nemeis Force Weapons and TT/SS and get psy weapons as well.
Wuut? What psyweapon? I dont believe THIS rumour for a second, there is no supporting evidence of a 3rd optional weapon, besides NFW and TH.
Any GK unit can once per game gate of infinity with no deviation in the movement face and can shoot, but not assault. This could still be changed to become the new Grey Knight Teleport Attack and moved to Fast Attack slot.
Books are in print, so this rumour is also probably fake, although it sounds super useful. Nothing like dropping a purgation squad 24 away from some out of cover ork boys and mowing them down.
All GKs Nemesis Force Weapons are Force Weapons and no longer Str 6.
Doubt it.
All GKs cause Deep Striking units to mishap if placed within 6 inches of any Grey Knight unit.
I believe this one. No more DOA blood angels or Herioc interventions.
There are no more stormtroopers in the codex except for as a inquisitorial henchmen. There is a way to get 2 wound terminators as troops in the codex rocking a 4++ and all basic grey knight troops come with a storm bolter and nemesis force weapon that counds as a power weapon but no bouns to strength and are all psy.
Troops with power weapons? No. What I do know is terminators will have power weapons AND whatever the global bonus from NFW is: either 2+ str, 2+ ini or force weapon, its unsure.
Holocaust is now 12 inch range large blast
Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price? Earlier rumours said that holocaust ignores inv saves and has the same stats as an incinerator, but large blast. Holocaust used to be able to be used in close combat, but now I reckon its ranged only, and cancels any storm bolter firing, which is really a very risky thing, if you miss with the blast, you have wasted it. Obviously the holocaust will be more powerful the more termies are in the squad, otherwise 3 man (5 man if not) squads of termies will be running around throwing holocaust, while bigger ones will be doing the storm bolter shooting. TAGK will be able to assault after using holocaust because they are relentless. If it is range 12, it will be much more potent than it used to be, indeed.
All GKs are psyker and their powers act very much in the same way as Psyker Battle Squad.
Truth. Lest there be to way to much reason to take 5 man squads over 10 man.
Brother-Captain Stern has Eternal Warrior and his attacks can remove models from play.
It always has been, it always will be. Truth.
Mystic is now only a teleport homer
Leafblower rest in peace. Truth.
All GK vehicles are immune to Shaken and Stunned (Sacred Hull). Stormraven is not a dedicated Transport. All GK vehicles are psykers with LD 10
Blessed is now a vehicle psychic power that picks one facing and raises the AV by 2 to a max of 14GKs have access to GK Command Squads giving them access to Apothecaries (FNP)
No shaken no stunned sounds OP, but then again, rumours have constantly supported this. I say truth, even if it is in the form of a pricey vehicle upgrade.
My only question is, can you bless dreadnoughts Bless the front armour yes please. You must have to cast it each turn, otherwise DNs would be unstoppable in close combat.
Vindicare has unlimited ammo for all special shots.
Truth, vindis were slightly useless last edition.
Hammerhand- justicar doubbles strength after modifications so is str 10
I believe this is the new response to tankhammer 40,000, if every GK squad has this psychic ability available, all enemy vehicles beware, no vehicle to date is safe from close combat strength 10. Throw out the melta, bring in the Justicar. Truth (hopefully)
Vindicare assassin is 0-3 and have the special rounds that are quite nasty---BS 8
Truth, although their 4d6 penetration rounds dont sound quite right. 0-3 is the new trend (see: sanguinary priests) and I reckon each assassin will be 75 points. Pricey, but they have potential.
Thats all I got time for, but yeah, hope that gives people something to think about.
GK's are going to have some significant problems against vehicles of AV 12 or higher. Autocannons can work well against AV 12 mainly because they are cheap and tend to come in autocannon-only units. Taking a 2 psycannon, or worse yet single psycannon, unit to shoot at a grav tank will tie up a lot of points and a large fraction of your army compared to a HWT or Hydra doing the same.
Rending isn't going to be that good against heavy vehicles, although I would be scared of taking anything AV 10 or 11 near rending stormbolters. I play Necrons, who also need 6s to harm vehicles, and taking 8 shots for one rend isn't so great a return.
Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price?
The price to pay is there, it´s called point cost!
I hardly think there will be any self wounding powers like holocaust wounding own troops (unless bad scatter does it).
It doesnt make sense to apply grot-mechanics to highly outnumbered troops where every mini loss is felt badly.
Also, the S5 stormbolters do not sound logical at all.
If this is true I expect the point cost to be a token one, maybe 10-20p for an entire squad at most.
S4 to S5 stormboletrs dont do much except against vehicles from behind.
S4 bolters would cause some 6 wounds on T4 opponents whereas a S5 stormbolter squad would cause some 8 wounds instead, hardly anything that warrans a big point cost.
Rending bolter shots would definitely be better.
Although if this is coupled with that rumored gate ability I can see S5 botlers do wonders against vehicle AV10 behinds.
That is a real bummer about not being able to field inquisitorial storm troopers... but these new henchmen sound cool, and it also sounds like there's going to be a plastic kit for them... which would lend themselves to good conversions for IG armies as well.
Is there a mock up of a army list circulating? I know there are a lot of rumors but it seems to be fairly consistent now.
Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price?
The price to pay is there, it´s called point cost!
I hardly think there will be any self wounding powers like holocaust wounding own troops (unless bad scatter does it).
It doesnt make sense to apply grot-mechanics to highly outnumbered troops where every mini loss is felt badly.
Historical precedent and flavour, perhaps? Holocaust is meant to be a barely controlled ravening storm of energy, which the GK using it is trained to summon around himself - or it was last time I checked.
tldr wrote:That is a real bummer about not being able to field inquisitorial storm troopers... but these new henchmen sound cool, and it also sounds like there's going to be a plastic kit for them... which would lend themselves to good conversions for IG armies as well.
Is there a mock up of a army list circulating? I know there are a lot of rumors but it seems to be fairly consistent now.
well you could make a IG army with a inquisiter vibe right? its not as fun but atleast you wil be able to play with your mini's and you get more tanks. i play xenos but i understand that its a bummer when your army becomes something like squats (an GW employed sniper shoots me in the back of the head but before i die i press submit )
Historical precedent and flavour, perhaps? Holocaust is meant to be a barely controlled ravening storm of energy, which the GK using it is trained to summon around himself - or it was last time I checked.
Precedent works both ways.
GW dumbing down rules anyone?
Previously BA devastators came with a risk due to their "rage" rule, last tiem I checked GW dumbed it down and removed the risks.
Before we had guess range barrages that could hurt you, now you place them where you want them to be and risk hurting yourself only if you choose to do so close to your own troops.
Ergo, I feel there will be no grot-rules put into the GK codex.
Holocaust ought to be pretty safe unless you choose to place it in a dumb spot, kind of like deep striking near a board edge, if it screws up, suit yourself.
DA's Forever wrote:I'm liking this "Inverse Gate" hoping that one stays in.
I'm not. If they'd created something like the old 2E power (with two portals units can move through) I'd like it, but now they're just ripping off the Monolith to go with ripping off Divine Guidance.
DA's Forever wrote:I'm liking this "Inverse Gate" hoping that one stays in.
I'm not. If they'd created something like the old 2E power (with two portals units can move through) I'd like it, but now they're just ripping off the Monolith to go with ripping off Divine Guidance.
depends if it happens on the shooting phase.
I can imagine deep striking DK's firing their stormbolters, and them ripping them back to the librarian in the same turn.
Its all good. If they say the books are in print, then it wion't be long. Psychically powered troops would be sweet. And I'm trusting that they will have Anti-tank capability of some sort in the list.
axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME .
Fixed.
Fixed-er
Fix-est.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Couple people are missing the point that if hammer hand is available to squads or justicars, anti tank is not going to be an issue.
axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME .
Fixed.
Fixed-er
Fix-est.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Couple people are missing the point that if hammer hand is available to squads or justicars, anti tank is not going to be an issue.
Yeah, a couple of STR 10 Melee attacks are nothing to sneeze at.
axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.
eh, if these rumors are true then the grey knights are pretty crappy daemonhunters but awesome nidhunters and mephistonslayers due to force weapons. you only need a single wound to kill any of the above while everything in the daemon codex has eternal warrior. pretty counterintuitive design choice if true.
AgeOfEgos wrote:GK Librarians - Here is where it gets good. We've heard that a wider array of Librarian Ranks are available, some allowing over 2 powers per turn to be used ~Eat your heart out Eldrad! Some of the reported powers included crazy stuff like:
-the lowering of a target unit's toughness! ~Think of what that means for the T:3 races!
-a "Stealth Kustom Force Field" that hands out the USR to all nearby friendlies.
-an "Inverse Gate" to yank a friendly unit from wherever, to right near the libby.
AgeOfEgos wrote:GK Librarians - Here is where it gets good. We've heard that a wider array of Librarian Ranks are available, some allowing over 2 powers per turn to be used ~Eat your heart out Eldrad! Some of the reported powers included crazy stuff like:
-the lowering of a target unit's toughness! ~Think of what that means for the T:3 races!
-a "Stealth Kustom Force Field" that hands out the USR to all nearby friendlies.
-an "Inverse Gate" to yank a friendly unit from wherever, to right near the libby.
giggity
ahah your disgusting naughty *spanks ass*
Anyone know how many months they release an Incoming! before a release? I want to hear that GK are confirmed and I want to know a release date! NOWW!!! wrrryyyyy!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have just decided that this rumour is complete bullsh*t.
From StickMonkey:
Corrected Psycannon profile
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning)
It reeks of made upness (its a word). A weapon that is available in up to 4 in a 5 man squad in the case of purgation squads will not be toting a 36 range str 5 ap 4 blast, one squad of that could decimate an entire hoard in a single turn, were talking better than a manticore here. One thing I have known from the start is somewhere someone confirmed that psycannons would be much cheaper than their archaic 3rd edition brethren, because they remove the nemesis force weapon when they are taken, as well as the storm bolter. Theres no way something this devastating could cost less than 30 points, the previous price of psycannons.
Nor is it going to be ap3 str 6 assault 3. Thats a complete marine slayer, not to mention would also laugh at a trygon or a carnifex. I would feel bad using them if these stats were true, these stats are so overpowered its not even funny. Any other rumours from stick monkey I believe should be discredited.
axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.
eh, if these rumors are true then the grey knights are pretty crappy daemonhunters but awesome nidhunters and mephistonslayers due to force weapons. you only need a single wound to kill any of the above while everything in the daemon codex has eternal warrior. pretty counterintuitive design choice if true.
Now what if they dont cause instant death but just remove the model?
axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.
eh, if these rumors are true then the grey knights are pretty crappy daemonhunters but awesome nidhunters and mephistonslayers due to force weapons. you only need a single wound to kill any of the above while everything in the daemon codex has eternal warrior. pretty counterintuitive design choice if true.
Now what if they dont cause instant death but just remove the model?
Or they ignore EW... that would be good
then it would be needlessly complicated and a minis version of "i know that you know that i know that you know..." daemonhunters having a rule that ignores the strength restriction on instant death but is ignored by eternal warrior on chaos daemons that needs to be ignored in order to work against their primary enemy is a horrible game mechanic. str6 was a unique mechanic that was simple and helped them in multiple roles (wounding high toughness creatures and light/medium anti-vehicle).
Jaon wrote:
Anyone know how many months they release an Incoming! before a release? I want to hear that GK are confirmed and I want to know a release date! NOWW!!! wrrryyyyy!
Yes, where is an official announcement from GW on incoming GK??? I know speculation for release has been pushed to april/may with O&G coming in march , but has anyone heard any solid, specific info from a reliable GW source as to a GK release date?
Cant remember if this has been talked about but just making sure, like all the other 5th edition codexes I assume we do not have to pay for psyker powers?
Except Stickeymonkey is pretty solid on his previous rumor information.
I'll go with him over your "reasoning" anyday. Thanks for playing though
I wouldn't be so sure:
Stickmonkey wrote:Some new rumor bits from this morning:
Tyrants:
Tyrants definitely have expanded psychic powers.
Increases to stat line on tyrant. +A +I
Tyrant gets 5+ invul default
Regen upgrade option as Fex (points expensive)
Lash whip can "target" a model in unit in CC (must mean other changes to LW)
Another rumor reinforcing a change to nids "rending" reverting rending back to 4ed for nids
Another confirmation of WoN availability on all Gaunt species...inc gargoyles
sprue pics for ravs and gargoyles should have visibility on web by nov 27.
Black boxes in stores by mid-Dec.
Box art online for Rav and Garg boxes before Dec.
"Surprise" mini planned, blister pack.
biomorph/weapons Sprue available separately direct only late Jan.
gargoyle weapon options include a cc build.
Nid PS Terrain set planned for mid to late 2010 (also rumor of Eldar Webway gate terrain set, but that's another thread)
Trygon/ravener "burrow" ability, go back underground, re-DS elsewhere on table....sounds like Necron Lord teleport ability. First I've heard of this, so this will need to be vetted.
Fex "nerf" will "make sense" is not related to Nid-zilla. players will still want to have many fex's
stealer "nerf" is just rumor. stealer FOC changes are re-confirmed. BL does more to stealers than just FOC change options.
Crushing Claws = dreadnaught CCW + new nid ability.
"Nid Surge" ability. Army wide. Extra move. (Ork Waagh? Name is not "nid surge")
Pravane like psychic ability...move enemy unit
Possession ability...control enemy unit
Shielding ability...protect unit
As always, my contacts have decent exposure to this, but are not authorities. So things change during the development, or conversations related to other products get confused, but in general more hits than misses. Enjoy.
Todays Rumors
These rumors are from early on. So subject to all standard rumor caveats. I'm removing those we already have, and those we know to be false.
To support more Fex' in the army an overall reduction in stats should take place, however, increases elsewhere compensate (not sure if they mean in weapons or in the statline)
Crushing Claws are huge "can openers"...+1A, double s (10Max), ignore as, add d6 pen, d3 "wounds"/"vehicle hits" (too good to be true, IMO)
Talons +1A, "pinning"?
Envenomed claws, upgrade to CC symbiotes, wound on 3+
Rending Claws, autowound on 6 on hit, more expensive
Spinefists, fire and run (is this the rumor "subconcious weapon" we heard before?)
Barbed Strangler, large blast, entangle...unit next move as difficult terrain (Again, I thought this was a rumor elsewhere, too)
Bone sword, pretty much the same
Lashwhip, remove X attacks from attacking unit (allocate as wounds), can target individual, but then only affects single model. no min 1A. no longer base contact constrained. (a lot here and it seems complex, so I highly doubt all (or any) this is true, but I have no way to separate wheat from chaff)
Surprise Assault. (I'm not sure where this fits, if its an ability, a psychic thing, a army rule, a deployment rule, etc. If I were guessing I'd think it's lictor or Scuttlers related.) Unit enters play from reserve anywhere on table. must be 12" from enemy. Cannot assault the turn it enters play. Allowed normal DS "run"
I just hope I don't become Lord of the at my hobby-store...
I bet we will be picking from psychic powers, all of which will likely have either a practical use in a CC, Shooting, or Speedy build. Being able to tune your squads via psychic powers and a some wargear maybe?
Thanks for the backing up bhsman, but hulksmash, even if I was a little harsh on the whole "Discredit everything he says" that particular rumour (which has stickmonkeys name all over it) is completely and utterly false, and hes the only one that supports it.
If you could name some rumours hes been right on, then I will take your point of view into consideration. But...thanks for playing? You set my hand on fire with that little flame
Footsloggin wrote:I just hope I don't become Lord of the at my hobby-store...
I bet we will be picking from psychic powers, all of which will likely have either a practical use in a CC, Shooting, or Speedy build. Being able to tune your squads via psychic powers and a some wargear maybe?
I fear that too I have always insulted my friend for using mephiston, hopefully I dont take up the role. :S
On the subject of psychic powers, Im really looking forward to the speedy build, like the single use no scatter GOI and the reverse portal thing (where the librarian pulls a squad to him) not to mention using mystics to safely land GK squads where I want them (Problem is mystics need a delivery system)
Roll? I'll have mine with some strawberry jam on it. Homophones can be your friend or your enemy in this or the 41st millennium.
With the newest rumors of more DE around April, Grey Knights must be sandwiched between DE and the "Flier themed release" this coming summer. Now if the PAGK and Terminators are going plastic, then getting enough special weapons to max them out or do "purgator squads" or whatever the new version of that will be might get difficult. This may be a case where the pewter special weapons troopers are still made available through Direct Services for people wanting extras of just those troopers. I guess I'll hang onto all of my metal ones.
The "crusaders" mentione dhave me excited - I have a pipe dram of plastic sets of guys who look like this particular member of a witch hunter inquisitors retinue...
BrassScorpion wrote:Roll? I'll have mine with some strawberry jam on it. Homophones can be your friend or your enemy in this or the 41st millennium.
With the newest rumors of more DE around April, Grey Knights must be sandwiched between DE and the "Flier themed release" this coming summer. Now if the PAGK and Terminators are going plastic, then getting enough special weapons to max them out or do "purgator squads" or whatever the new version of that will be might get difficult. This may be a case where the pewter special weapons troopers are still made available through Direct Services for people wanting extras of just those troopers. I guess I'll hang onto all of my metal ones.
Mmm, psychic rolls... Homophones kill you when your running on little sleep. Hanging onto the metal ones is always a smart idea, especially if you don't like the new ones.
I'm usually pretty happy to follow rumors for a codex, but holy hell 9/10 rumors for this codex are absolutely ridiculous and I can't believe a word of them. I want to see Grey Knights get their due as much as anyone else, but sheesh!
Rumor threads are always thus. The new thing sounds crazy overpowered because most of the drawbacks (slot limits, points costs) don't do the rounds with them. here is much wailing and gnashing of teeth until about 6 weeks after the codex is out and people start figuring out counter strategeries.
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Rumor threads are always thus. The new thing sounds crazy overpowered because most of the drawbacks (slot limits, points costs) don't do the rounds with them. here is much wailing and gnashing of teeth until about 6 weeks after the codex is out and people start figuring out counter strategeries.
Seriously doesent anyone remember the deepstriking land raiders? loads of people were annoyed by it until they realized that noone really wants to deepstrike a landraider
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Rumor threads are always thus. The new thing sounds crazy overpowered because most of the drawbacks (slot limits, points costs) don't do the rounds with them. here is much wailing and gnashing of teeth until about 6 weeks after the codex is out and people start figuring out counter strategeries.
Seriously doesent anyone remember the deepstriking land raiders? loads of people were annoyed by it until they realized that noone really wants to deepstrike a landraider
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Rumor threads are always thus. The new thing sounds crazy overpowered because most of the drawbacks (slot limits, points costs) don't do the rounds with them. here is much wailing and gnashing of teeth until about 6 weeks after the codex is out and people start figuring out counter strategeries.
Seriously doesent anyone remember the deepstriking land raiders? loads of people were annoyed by it until they realized that noone really wants to deepstrike a landraider
Or AP3 Storm Troopers
Yeah! or Mephi.... well people are still annoyed about that...
I reckon the ST's guns shouldn't be S3. I mean- 5 against MEQ- 5 hit, 2 wound. 2 dead marines. then the boltguns fire and it's all bye bye.
The most OTT units of recent:
LR achilles (too tough for it's own good.)
Mephiston (MC stats on a 25mm base?!)
Thunderwolf cavalry (Massively heavy SM superhumans riding giant wolves?!)
DS'ing LR's (I don't care if BA have more LR's than everyone else, why drop them from aircraft?! They're still valuable!)
Dreads clinging on to flying bricks (no explanation needed.)
Longfangs (more cheesey than OTT, but why can SW deverstators shoot at 2 targets and other SM deverstators can't?)
DC dreads (If astorath kills those who succumb after thier first battle, why bother saving them?)
Doom of malan'tai (Hits embarked units?! up to 10 wounds?! up to S10?!)
Incubi w/archon (Just too mean in-game for thier own good.)
shrike wrote:
Dreads clinging on to flying bricks (no explanation needed.)
DC dreads (If astorath kills those who succumb after thier first battle, why bother saving them?)
I actually like dreads having a transport, though I'd have liked to see it forcing you to choose at the start of a game whether it's going to be kitted to ferry troops or dreads. Or something along those lines.
The DC dreads thing though... they've been around forever, and they're not DC who are placed in dreads, they're dreads who succumb to the rage.
Oh, hey! You guys remember when I said a few pages back that it would be ridiculous if everyone had force weapons, and I checked again and I thought that everyone instead had power weapons? Turns out both are right. If the rumors are to be believed, it seems we'll be dealing with NFWs that are both force weapons AND power weapons, rather than str. 6.
Alpharius wrote:Aren't all Force Weapons already always also Power Weapons?
Yup
So if the new NFW are all Force Weapons then ergo the GK will all have power weapons. If they are power weapons they have a possibility of not being force weapons
The thought of that model depresses me. It just sounds...dumb. Why would you even have it in the first place? Why not a Penitent Engine?
Whenever I hear about this thing I think I sympathize with all those people who had been waiting for a new Space Wolves codex and ended up getting Thunderwolves. And I both thought TWC makes sense and liked it.
Why? Dreadnaughts are very "unfluffy" gor the Grey Knights who generally see a peaceful rest in death in the great tomb on Saturns Moon Titan as thier ultimate reward in death - putting them into a dreadnaught is down right cruel.
Like wise, I doubt very many Grey Knights are going to be needing to serve the penitence penitent engines serve to provide It only makes good fluff sense for them to get a unique heavy walker.
bhsman wrote:The thought of that model depresses me. It just sounds...dumb. Why would you even have it in the first place? Why not a Penitent Engine?
Whenever I hear about this thing I think I sympathize with all those people who had been waiting for a new Space Wolves codex and ended up getting Thunderwolves. And I both thought TWC makes sense and liked it.
Well, you can try this;
"This is a DaemonHunter FW Dread. I use it to represent a DreadKnight (Or whatever it's going to be called). It represents my former Captain Mr. DaemonBeaterUpper who was one of the greatest heroes of the chapter, thus when he was nearly killed defending a holy chapel, he chose to continue battling the Emperor's enemies. So he's represented by this model and has the following stats to show his capabilities...."
To go off topic for a moment, honestly the only complaint I hear from SW players regarding their codex is......everyone is using it to represent their armies now because of how fun/custom it is. (Counts as Chaos SW are rather common topics)
If the rumors about it having a jump pack and 12-shot weapon hold any water, I'd have to buy the new Tau suit from Forgeworld instead. That's how out of place it feels.
bhsman wrote:The thought of that model depresses me. It just sounds...dumb. Why would you even have it in the first place? Why not a Penitent Engine?
Because a Penitent Engine consists of two essential parts - the engine and the penitent. While GK could probably get an engine running, finding a penitent among them would be really, really hard. A cross between a dread and termie actually makes sense for what it's supposed to do, and it's not like we're facing another "gosh, we found yet anotherSTC" scenario because GK already use some very specific, exotic weaponry.
bhsman wrote:The thought of that model depresses me. It just sounds...dumb. Why would you even have it in the first place? Why not a Penitent Engine?
Because a Penitent Engine consists of two essential parts - the engine and the penitent. While GK could probably get an engine running, finding a penitent among them would be really, really hard. A cross between a dread and termie actually makes sense for what it's supposed to do, and it's not like we're facing another "gosh, we found yet anotherSTC" scenario because GK already use some very specific, exotic weaponry.
Yeah, it could just be that the Grey Knights were just 'playing nice' and got tired of all the daemon's gak and 'unleashed the dreadknight'
Longfangs (more cheesey than OTT, but why can SW deverstators shoot at 2 targets and other SM deverstators can't?)
I dislike the dreadknight concept. One of the coolest things about GK was that in the most climactic battles against daemons, despite how gargantuan the bloodthirster was, it was still just a space marine in silver armor holding it off.
Well I hope its just a terminator with a really really BIG GUN.
Empire at war quotes aside, It wont be so bad, but I do agree with one of the above posts, about the marine in silver armour fighting a greater daemon. Things were never meant to be easy or fair for grey knights. I dont want this turning into a "Sanguinor vs Blood thirster" codex, ala the grey knight terminator jumped out of the thunderhawk and landed on the Bloodthirsters balls, which exploded into many smaller blood thirsters etc.
So I'm guessing as an IG player I won't be putting GK termy squads in my army Anyone know if this is true?
Use to rely on these boys in 3rd, well just got to start a GK when they come out
Except Stickeymonkey is pretty solid on his previous rumor information.
I'll go with him over your "reasoning" anyday. Thanks for playing though
Stick monkey has been 80% wrong and every rumor he has said in the last 2 years. Last year he said dark elder would NEVER see the light of day and early 2012 would be 6th edition. He is a rambling bafoon.
Except Stickeymonkey is pretty solid on his previous rumor information.
I'll go with him over your "reasoning" anyday. Thanks for playing though
Stick monkey has been 80% wrong and every rumor he has said in the last 2 years. Last year he said dark elder would NEVER see the light of day and early 2012 would be 6th edition. He is a rambling bafoon.
well, at least it's not ward. I don't want C:GK to be "grey knights are to space marines what space marines are to imperial guard, for they are the masters of cheese."
I'm going to be able to sleep tonight! Cruddance is okay.
Man, it's kinda distressing to know that GW knows exactly what they are doing with regards to removing allies: almost every player in this thread that I've seen lament the loss of their allies just winds up saying "well, I guess I'll just make a GK army too". And GW smiles.
ph34r wrote:Man, it's kinda distressing to know that GW knows exactly what they are doing with regards to removing allies: almost every player in this thread that I've seen lament the loss of their allies just winds up saying "well, I guess I'll just make a GK army too". And GW smiles.
To be fair, although I approve of the ability to field allies, I don't think it's entirely fair.
For example, only certain Codices receive these allies, adding a sense of imbalance. Also, lets be fair, many of the Imperial Codices are currently the most powerful and in therefore don't need any help in a competitive environment, whereas in friendly games, whether official or not, allies will likely be allowed.
I'd let someone field a Squad or 2 of Space Marines with their Imperial Guard (at slightly increased pts cost mind), whether Games workshop says they officially can or not...
That's my view anyway.
shrike wrote:well, at least it's not ward. I don't want C:GK to be "grey knights are to space marines what space marines are to imperial guard, for they are the masters of cheese."
I'm going to be able to sleep tonight! Cruddance is okay.
Precisely what I was thinking. I wasn't a fan of... Ooops. There's a tornado. Be back later.
Oh, nothing. Just work being somewhat of a nag. Apparently there was a tornado that touched down nearby and they had us evacuate to the bottom of the building. No biggie.
Anyway, as I was saying: Not an overall fan of Robin's work on Tyranids, but I really like the options given in the IG codex. I'd much rather deal he write it than someone like Ward. I would hate for something to happen like a GKGM teams up with some Tau to kill a few Daemons and then they exchange BFF bracelets afterward.
yeah- cruddance doesn't go ape and make completely OTT units "because marines can do anything".
I would most like to have Kelly, but one bad thing about him- SW. Just repeating what i've heard, but:
teleporting thunder hammer,
SM riding giant wolves,
dreadnought SC,
a super psychic hood that works for 24"- nullifies all psy powers on a 3+,
and SW devestators being better than SM devestators "because they are".
[/rant]
anyways, yeah. Beggars can't be choosers.
From my point of view, the IG codex was lacking in fluff, but never were its descriptions or units OTT, so hopefully GK are the same, with a bit better fluff.
Although there was a small part in me that hoped GK would turn out like BA only 10 times worse, and win at everything.
shrike wrote:yeah- cruddance doesn't go ape and make completely OTT units "because marines can do anything".
I would most like to have Kelly, but one bad thing about him- SW. Just repeating what i've heard, but:
teleporting thunder hammer,
SM riding giant wolves,
dreadnought SC,
a super psychic hood that works for 24"- nullifies all psy powers on a 3+,
and SW devestators being better than SM devestators "because they are".
[/rant]
anyways, yeah. Beggars can't be choosers.
Wolves Do Not teleport
Some of those wolves are larger than a van or lorry for the brits
That dread is the oldest living loyalist marine and then there is the blood angels dread moiar
He is a beast big deal
They are very old and know how to fight better than just raised scouts
shrike wrote:yeah- cruddance doesn't go ape and make completely OTT units "because marines can do anything".
I would most like to have Kelly, but one bad thing about him- SW. Just repeating what i've heard, but:
teleporting thunder hammer,
SM riding giant wolves,
dreadnought SC,
a super psychic hood that works for 24"- nullifies all psy powers on a 3+,
and SW devestators being better than SM devestators "because they are".
[/rant]
anyways, yeah. Beggars can't be choosers.
Wolves Do Not teleport
Some of those wolves are larger than a van or lorry for the brits
That dread is the oldest living loyalist marine and then there is the blood angels dread moiar
He is a beast big deal
They are very old and know how to fight better than just raised scouts
Wolves don't teleport? That's not what I said.
most of the wolves are about the size of the SW riding it.
He is big deal and where is this BA dread? He isn't in the codex. Because they are old, they can shoot at different targets?
Jaon wrote:Unless your talking about Bjorn, the dark angels dreadnought, you are wrong with the oldest living marine.
Bjorn is SW. And technically, dreads aren't living. "Even in death I still serve"?
Shrike, two out of your five complaints are based on historical precedent - both Bjorn as a dreadnought SC and the Long Fang split-fire rule have been around since the 2nd and 3rd edition of the game, respectively. The Long Fang rule wasn't required in 2nd edition due to independent targeting.
Moriar, the Blood Angels Death Company Dreadnought special character, appeared in the 3rd edition Blood Angels codex, though I don't recall it specifying his age. I don't recall if he was in the 4th or 5th edition ones.
shrike wrote:yeah- cruddance doesn't go ape and make completely OTT units "because marines can do anything".
I would most like to have Kelly, but one bad thing about him- SW. Just repeating what i've heard, but:
teleporting thunder hammer,
SM riding giant wolves,
dreadnought SC,
a super psychic hood that works for 24"- nullifies all psy powers on a 3+,
and SW devestators being better than SM devestators "because they are".
[/rant]
anyways, yeah. Beggars can't be choosers.
Wolves Do Not teleport
Some of those wolves are larger than a van or lorry for the brits
That dread is the oldest living loyalist marine and then there is the blood angels dread moiar
He is a beast big deal
They are very old and know how to fight better than just raised scouts
Wolves don't teleport? That's not what I said.
most of the wolves are about the size of the SW riding it.
He is big deal and where is this BA dread? He isn't in the codex. Because they are old, they can shoot at different targets?
Jaon wrote:Unless your talking about Bjorn, the dark angels dreadnought, you are wrong with the oldest living marine.
Bjorn is SW. And technically, dreads aren't living. "Even in death I still serve"?
Sorry dude, but dreadnoughts arent dead, and are you quoting Dawn of War there? Naughty
If you read up on dreadnoughts, it specifically says "A warrior who has suffered a grevous or mortal wound, but still has the emperors light shining in his eyes may continue to serve the emperor in the armoured carapace of a dreadnought"
If they were actually dead, they cant be put in a dreadnought. "Even In Death" is just a figure of speech.
Um Sir please Re read the first point you made about teliporting thunder hammers
Yes I was talking about Bjorn
They can do it because they have been around for a long time and know how to kill things that there weapons are good at killing. Unlike just raised scouts who don't cause they have not been trained out of silly behavior. Don't get me wrong I like regular devastators but my long fangs can have a different weapon load out say 3 rockets and 2 heavy bolters and shoot at the same target if there is no better target for the rockets. and even er is putting 5 multimeltas in a drop pod with Logan can you say dead tank I knew you could
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Jaon wrote:Unless your talking about Bjorn, the dark angels dreadnought, you are wrong with the oldest living marine.
sonofruss wrote:Um Sir please Re read the first point you made about teliporting thunder hammers
Yes I was talking about Bjorn
They can do it because they have been around for a long time and know how to kill things that there weapons are good at killing. Unlike just raised scouts who don't cause they have not been trained out of silly behavior. Don't get me wrong I like regular devastators but my long fangs can have a different weapon load out say 3 rockets and 2 heavy bolters and shoot at the same target if there is no better target for the rockets. and even er is putting 5 multimeltas in a drop pod with Logan can you say dead tank I knew you could
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Jaon wrote:Unless your talking about Bjorn, the dark angels dreadnought, you are wrong with the oldest living marine.
Bjorn is a Space Wolf dread sir
If it was about the age of the Long Fangs,then logically every SMSC would have Independant Targeting,as well as every Veteran Sgt.,Veteran Unit,and Terminator Unit. I do realize that it was a throwback to the cheesey rule Gav Thorpe put in the 3rd edition codex,though.
schadenfreude wrote:Actually chaos has the oldest marines as time does not pass naturally in the eye of terror, and many deamon princes are veterans of the Horus heresay.
If time does not pass naturally in the EoT, then they might not be - just because you were born before the HH doesn't mean that you lived through the ten thousand years, thanks to the screwy passage of time. You might just have existed for that length of time to an outside observer.....
Fluff can be used to justify rules, but not always vice versa. Long Fangs being able to split fire doesn't mean other armies never thought of it, just as much as IG revolving around the order system doesn't mean all the other armies act without them.
And, OT again... Anyway, will this codex shift more towards super elite troops, or super elite elites, with even fewer models than ever? Based upon the rumors that is.
On one hand theres a SC that makes terminators cheaper (and troops or do they start as troops?) and on another there is the commander that allows you to field henchmen (no doubt an inquisitor) and all kinds of stuff. I am looking forward to choosing my commander and building an army centralized around him, HQs never seem very important anywhere except imperial guard. This should add more depth to the choice, not just which one is most cheesy.
On one hand theres a SC that makes terminators cheaper (and troops or do they start as troops?) and on another there is the commander that allows you to field henchmen (no doubt an inquisitor) and all kinds of stuff. I am looking forward to choosing my commander and building an army centralized around him, HQs never seem very important anywhere except imperial guard. This should add more depth to the choice, not just which one is most cheesy.
I fear stern will be the myster
Exactly, with the new GK codex you could easily have three separate list's for each SC, playing off of his Bonuses
The Terminator SC will definitely make things much more interesting.
Im wondering if this is a chapter tactics situation, where you may only choose one, or if it is more of a "If you have this commander on the field, you get this bonus"
Would fielding both the Terminator SC and the Inquisitor reap 2 benefits to your infantry? No doubt an expensive choice, but in apocalypse, the force multipliers would be insane.
I think GW will more than likely take the Chapter tactics route, which then again as you said i can only see it used in apoc, as in casual games using multiples of them would require a great amount of points
Im thinking you are correct, as I can imagine shenanigans coming up to do with spamming cheap henchmen AND having tough as nails grey knight terminators backing them up.
For the first time in my life, Im going to have to by the codex before I buy the models. It looks like some serious decision making is in order.
Jaon wrote:Im thinking you are correct, as I can imagine shenanigans coming up to do with spamming cheap henchmen AND having tough as nails grey knight terminators backing them up.
For the first time in my life, Im going to have to by the codex before I buy the models. It looks like some serious decision making is in order.
True, Its not gonna be Do you play GK's? Its going be like DA's, You Play "Deathwing" or "Ravenwing" ect ect. (GKTermieDeathList!) <Thats a Trademarked term now >
Im thinking if these Paladin Terminators are true, but they dont have any distinct modular difference between normal terminators scibor minis is the place to go to pimp them out into truly awesome models, and it wont bust the bank either.
wow. I'm gonna be getting one of those as grand masters.
only problem is- should I get the daemonhammer/power fist one or the NFW/SS one?
...
NFW/SS. Better in-game adn the model's cooler.
Old land raiders are cute!!! I want one to pet it as I play... Nah, if the land raider reaches above £50, I'm out- I might as well pay the extra £8 and get the heresy-era one, or buy a normal LR and get some plasticard...
i too wonder what a dredknight is if its a knight titan i am so on board but that is a bit too far going even for 
you."
ey as 
*spanks ass*
, but has anyone heard any solid, specific info from a reliable 
To Myself :Open a new tab idiot
